The 1836 line from Edge Hill to Lime Street was a continuous two track tunnel. You can find photographs and engravings etc on-line, of the process by which the line was widened to four tracks by digging down to the original tunnel to open it out into a vertical cutting or enlarged tunnels. The widening was done in the 1870s. The ‘Rathole’ was built for locomotive shunting, it runs from Lime Street to Brownlow Street in the University precinct, before rejoining the main line.
i live near edge hill in liverpool. when i get a bus to the city centre..i always get off to just do the one train stop down that majestic cutting into Liverpool Lime street. the 8th wonder of the world!
Cheers, from Sydney Australia, great video, Preston is my home town. The bridge in front is Fishergate hill, where i use to live just 200 yards away from the station, where in the 1950s I spent many great hours train spotting. lots of good memories Thanks.
Brings back memories, as I left Liverpool a long time ago. I have taken this journey many times from Liverpool to Preston, great to see the ride from the cabin! Thanks for uploading!
funny to see trains not stop at all the smaller stations - I took the stopper from Lime St to Wigan NW back in May 2018. I'm from Garswood now living in Vancouver since 1981
I've always found it a shame that most cities get extravagant, beautiful horizons and skylines as you enter the city, and Liverpool gets dark, damp, cave-like tunnels. Shame, really.
Brilliant! Really enjoyed this. I was born and grew up near Carr Mill Dam in St Helens and went back and forth on the train regularly between St Helens and Liverpool when I was a lad. Going over Carr Mill Viaduct reminded me of the time I climbed across on the girders underneath when I was in my teens. I've not travelled that way since electrification and the reintroduction of 4 tracks at Roby and Huyton. It's great to see how it looks now. I would have loved to have been able to see regular long distance trains going through St Helens Central (or Shaw Street as it was then) when I was young. You had to go across town to St Helens Junction if you wanted to see proper locos. It would have been much more interesting than the old 1950s DMUs and the newer Pacers!
I rode this route once when the new-fangled DMU's had just entered service and you could see where you were going for the first time. Glad to see the mining subsidence dips and kinks near Bryn have been straightened out.
I never tire of these railway history lessons portrayed in UHD. In this video the sound seems better. I can feel bass rumble of the engine. Makes me want to leave my comfortable chair in Southern California to experience the life of a Victorian traveler back in England, where I grew up around smoky steam engines and soot stained collars. .
Nice one Ben. Can't wait for Nova 1 and 3 driver's view and also between Liverpool Lime street and Edinburgh Waverley via Newcastle which takes you to the ECML
Interesting to note that 2-track section of the WCML between Wigan and Euxton, some original 4-track bits had been narrowed to 2 tracks, others looked like there never were more than 2 tracks...
Nice to see the departure from Lime Street in the video, thank you, Ben, then thought maybe get more of this up to Glasgow then saw that there was to be a driver change.
Thank you for this. I was also wondering about the low speed limits on the St. Helens line, but you’ve already answered another person’s query on the same question.
Another good video. You know, with Don Coffey having his problems and saying he will likely stop making videos, there is an opportunity for you to improve even more by going into similar levels of detail as he does.
Great video and brilliant information along the way too. I never knew how speed restrictive this route is! 60mph max for the straight and narrows seems very low. I'm sure their must be reason?
Good to see this oft overlooked route through St. Helens Ben, but why is it only 60mph? The alignment and sight lines look good enough for higher speeds, the prolonged 30 around St. Helens Central seems a bit extreme too, are there still mining subsidence issues? Great video BTW!
Cheers Allan. I'm not sure of the reason for the low speeds on the St Helens line. I agree it could be a fair bit faster - even 75 would be okay. The Chat Moss linespeeds were increased when the line was electrified so it would have been nice if they'd done the same here.
@Ben Elias They are extremely strict with it, can't even have smart watches etc. That's a shame! Seems to be the way most companies are going with the rules 😕
Superb footage. I'm interested to know how the 397s compare with other EMUs such as the 350 or 802 from a driver's perspective. I certainly find 350s to be more comfortable from a passanger's perspective than 8xx classes but have not yet traveled on a 397.
Most drivers would prefer to have the 350s back. Personally I hated 350s because of the cramped cab and their poor acceleration beyond 50mph. 397s are comfortable and fast but do have a few flaws which will hopefully be sorted in due course
@@beneliastrains Yeah but what about other trains in TPE's fleet? 185s, Nova 1s and Nova 3s? Btw the passenger seats in Nova 2 isn't comfortable as 350s, but at least they are not ironing boards like those in GTR's 717s. That's the reason why I don't like some of those modern trains, especially 345s, 378s and 710s in London with longitudinal seating layout which reduce number of seats for more standing room.
One thing i will say about the British Railways (and i have watched many cab view train rides and with Dove tails many many hours of simulated routes) they have some of the most unkempt rail lines in Europe. Because much of the rest of what i saw in Europe, i can tell that they take great care of their lines, and often they are beautiful parts of the urban areas. I have seen few British rail lines in urban areas that looked even half decent. Its sad 2 because on this route (as on many others) there are so many beautiful buildings track side and the grounds between them and the rail lines are just hideous!. The British rail system is so amazing that if they landscaped it and then took care of it it would be the nations greatest treasure and hugest moneymaker for tourism.
At 29.05 is that where Whitley Crossing used to be? I think it is, but much has changed since I spotted trains there in the 60s so I could easily be wrong.
Another lovely vid. Do many of these services get routed through St.Helens Junction and the Lawton curves, or is that strictly diversionary for engineering works etc.
This is great! My commute is Eccleston Park to Liverpool Lime St, but I also go the opposite direction from time to time, as far as Wigan. Seeing everything from your view is awesome, the cutting from Eccleston Park to Thatto Heath is really deep, can't really see much as a passenger, and it's great to be able to see the approach to Lime St. from Edge Hill. Can i ask, what does the likes of Up chat moss, and down fast/down main mean? Thanks.
Watching this has made me realise that there must have been a road at some point that went Sinclair Avenue over the railway and onto now where Prescot Primary school field is. Can see the old bridge at 10:19
@@craighughes4885 yeah, you can see where it has been removed if you look on Google Earth. The remains are at the end of a garden on Sinclair, , then at the edge of the school field. 👍🏻🌎
Absolutely love those trains best out there and sound amazing. Are they easier to drive than the 350. Will definitely trying one to Liverpool as I always get one to Glasgow from Carlisle. Great video
@@beneliastrains That a shame hopefully they can get a software update to include this. It definitely a feature that should of come with the train as with the distance used by them is long
So do the 397's actually reach 125 mph at any point in their journeys between Liverpool Lime Street/Manchester Airport and Edinburgh Waverley/Glasgow Central, or is it 110 mph as with other non-tilting trains?.
Nice one! This is my local route from Leyland/Preston to Liverpool - Once past Wigan it does seem a lot faster than the speed limit suggests there! 29:00 are you running to enhanced 125 mph or the normal speed?
Great film but shocking how the lineside has got into such a bad state. I have a cab ride film from 1988 out of Liverpool to St Helens and it was very different then.
the line between Wigan North Western and Preston wasn't it a 3 track system in the 70s? as I am sure back then I saw a 3 track system from Wigan upto where the track goes in to a 4 track system at the Euxton Junction, and eventually opening up in to a 6 track system at the Skew Bridge Junction and eventually more tracks for entering Preston Station well thats what I seem to remember, although I dont remember Euxton
Brilliant video. Not done the routes here since all the resignallings, plus electrification of the St Helens line although speed still no more than 60mph on that. Sounds like someone has stuffed a cloth in the AWS speaker?! In my day, rolled newspaper or a bit of rag was often stuffed behind the AWS bell 😉
the american train spotters would never understand this;;; no bells, over 60mph and only once did the driver blow his horn. the one thing that this vid proves to one and all is that there is definitely not enough freight on the British net work. such a shame.
This route was our back yard for Wigan and Warrington train crews, not driven it for quite a few years prior to electrification- not too sure about those single aspect signals 👎.
Thankfully the wind noise has been solved on most units, this is one of the ones which hasn't been done I suspect. 700s also had bad wind noise when they were new. I preferred 700s in many ways but the routes I drive these on make it a much more enjoyable experience.
Ben Elias interesting thanks. It must be nice to sign the routes you drive with all the lovely scenery and changing gradients. Stating the obvious but it must take a lot of concentration with no speed set going via shap and beattock. Keep up the good work Ben!
Excellent video, at certain junctions and stations there looks to be creamed coloured sensors spaced about 20 to 30 yards apart and 3ft high, what are they please?
Intresting pathing onto the Down Slow at Balshaw Lane, is it for your route knowledge, like the mid afternoon liverpool off of Preston, going via Golborne Jcn
@@TheArkamedBat I'm assuming the tracks or the ground beneath it are slightly unstable for faster trains, cause otherwise I see no reason for there to be a slow speed limit
Brilliant ride if a little scary at 110 mph, but I had my seat belt on sitting on my office chair! lol
Loved this train ride. Nothing like being up front with the driver. Watching this from my lounge in Auckland, New Zealand.
You are cultured, my friend
That Victorian engineering when you pull out is just beautiful ❤
The 1836 line from Edge Hill to Lime Street was a continuous two track tunnel. You can find photographs and engravings etc on-line, of the process by which the line was widened to four tracks by digging down to the original tunnel to open it out into a vertical cutting or enlarged tunnels. The widening was done in the 1870s. The ‘Rathole’ was built for locomotive shunting, it runs from Lime Street to Brownlow Street in the University precinct, before rejoining the main line.
i live near edge hill in liverpool. when i get a bus to the city centre..i always get off to just do the one train stop down that majestic cutting into Liverpool Lime street. the 8th wonder of the world!
That’s me crouched spotting the 397 on departure from Liverpool!
I saw you!
You have some excellent photography skills, Josh!
@@beneliastrains Thanks Ben, thought I saw someone setting a camera up, was nice to get the 397 and 802 together :)
@@JoshyFre2003 Had the 68 come in on time you'd have been able to get all three at once. Not often that opportunity comes around!
@@beneliastrains that’s what I was hoping for! To be tried again next week haha
Cheers, from Sydney Australia, great video, Preston is my home town. The bridge in front is Fishergate hill, where i use to live just 200 yards away from the station, where in the 1950s I spent many great hours train spotting. lots of good memories Thanks.
Brings back memories, as I left Liverpool a long time ago. I have taken this journey many times from Liverpool to Preston, great to see the ride from the cabin! Thanks for uploading!
Thanks for another great video.
I always hanker after the clickety clack of the old unweilded tracks.
Been waiting what seems like months for this sort of cab ride vid. welcome back.
funny to see trains not stop at all the smaller stations - I took the stopper from Lime St to Wigan NW back in May 2018. I'm from Garswood now living in Vancouver since 1981
Great video. Walked a great deal of that route when I was a Track Engineer for N Rail.
Hi there !! ... As others have mentioned ...Welcome back!!
A very interesting cabride ... thankyou.
This is so good. Love the old and tall walls and archways as you roll out of Liverpool Lime Street
I've always found it a shame that most cities get extravagant, beautiful horizons and skylines as you enter the city, and Liverpool gets dark, damp, cave-like tunnels. Shame, really.
@@caramelldansen2204limestreet is an old station the lines were cut through the limestone it’s not like they decided to build great large walls there
Brilliant! Really enjoyed this. I was born and grew up near Carr Mill Dam in St Helens and went back and forth on the train regularly between St Helens and Liverpool when I was a lad. Going over Carr Mill Viaduct reminded me of the time I climbed across on the girders underneath when I was in my teens. I've not travelled that way since electrification and the reintroduction of 4 tracks at Roby and Huyton. It's great to see how it looks now. I would have loved to have been able to see regular long distance trains going through St Helens Central (or Shaw Street as it was then) when I was young. You had to go across town to St Helens Junction if you wanted to see proper locos. It would have been much more interesting than the old 1950s DMUs and the newer Pacers!
Great Cab Ride Ben... Thank you my friend...
Excellent video sir , I'm here from Mr Coffey's channel who spoke highly of you . Great video 👍🇬🇧
I love how you can hear the motors !!!! Lovely , must be nice having a sense of audiable acceleration via the motors .
Wow there's quite a bit of wind noise on those 397s when they get up some speed! Or is there actually a window the driver can open for ventilation?
Absolutely brilliant. Thank you for making and sharing. Great educational tool and insight into the route I travel on regularly :-)
I rode this route once when the new-fangled DMU's had just entered service and you could see where you were going for the first time. Glad to see the mining subsidence dips and kinks near Bryn have been straightened out.
Thanks Ben. Appreciate these cab rides. 😍
a very enjoyable trip, thank you. Did the trip 10/12 years ago, like riding in a bucket! This was certainly an arm chair job.
Super video. I've never had a cab ride out of Lime St. Wonderful architecture.
Bet these days it wouldn't be built anywhere near as well!!
Thank you
Excellent upload Ben, thank you for this. Just the right amount of information included !
Beautiful day for this very.nice cab ride. Thank.you for.the info given in ths video.
Very nice 👍
Nice video as usual, weird to see deserted stations at St Helens & Wigan & masked passengers at Preston.
Great cab ride Ben. What are the possibilities of you uploading more such similar videos in the near future?
I never tire of these railway history lessons portrayed in UHD. In this video the sound seems better. I can feel bass rumble of the engine. Makes me want to leave my comfortable chair in Southern California to experience the life of a Victorian traveler back in England, where I grew up around smoky steam engines and soot stained collars. .
Great sharing my friend! Big like and a new friend joined you! Wishing you all the best!
Brilliant video! A nice bit of virtual track bashing for me as I've not yet done Huyton Junction to Springs Branch Junction.
That was excellent Ben ! Thank you for sharing it with us ...:):):)
Gracias por subir los vídeos !! Me encantan😊
AMAZING RIDE ! THANKS FOR SHARE IT . GREETINGS FROM BRAZIL .
Cheers again Don. Not managed to ride one of these yet for obvious reasons. But seemed some impressive acceleration at times
Great video.
If you could show a photo of the train please before departure, it would be even greater!
It’s been a while since your last video so it’s great to have you back, Ben 👍. (Nice to see the England flag flying - 8:20.) 🐨🇦🇺
8:12
Thanks Ben! Good to see you back on UA-cam.
Nice one Ben. Can't wait for Nova 1 and 3 driver's view and also between Liverpool Lime street and Edinburgh Waverley via Newcastle which takes you to the ECML
Interesting to note that 2-track section of the WCML between Wigan and Euxton, some original 4-track bits had been narrowed to 2 tracks, others looked like there never were more than 2 tracks...
Awesome video!!! So scenic, love the UK.
Nice to see the departure from Lime Street in the video, thank you, Ben, then thought maybe get more of this up to Glasgow then saw that there was to be a driver change.
I will upload a Carlisle to Glasgow video eventually. The rest of the route is covered in other videos on my channel.
@@beneliastrains looking forward to seeing the Carlisle to Glasgow bit. Not travelled on that section but I intend to one day
2:28 Funny wave from the driver there 😂
That was my best mate Paul who is sadly no longer with us.
Shows what I know - I thought you'd have to go to Bank Quay and reverse! Didn't know that link existed!
A brilliant video from start 2 finish and very informative excellent watching from northern ireland
This reminded me just how fast 70MPH actually is. Riding in a car all the time made me forget.
Please can you do more in the Class 397. Would be lovely to see that
Thanks ☺️
Thank you for this. I was also wondering about the low speed limits on the St. Helens line, but you’ve already answered another person’s query on the same question.
Another good video. You know, with Don Coffey having his problems and saying he will likely stop making videos, there is an opportunity for you to improve even more by going into similar levels of detail as he does.
Why is he not makin videos anymore
Great video , with unobtrusive captions, just how it should be done Thank You.😊👍
Cracking vid, nice to see the obligatory red before Wigan hasn't changed.
Awesome video I love see full journey from Glasgow to liverpool lime street I love 397 and 800 iep and 68 with mk5 class
Great video and brilliant information along the way too. I never knew how speed restrictive this route is! 60mph max for the straight and narrows seems very low. I'm sure their must be reason?
Good to see this oft overlooked route through St. Helens Ben, but why is it only 60mph? The alignment and sight lines look good enough for higher speeds, the prolonged 30 around St. Helens Central seems a bit extreme too, are there still mining subsidence issues? Great video BTW!
Cheers Allan. I'm not sure of the reason for the low speeds on the St Helens line. I agree it could be a fair bit faster - even 75 would be okay. The Chat Moss linespeeds were increased when the line was electrified so it would have been nice if they'd done the same here.
great video as always thank for your efforts
'Back on track' Good to have you back Ben.
Last train I took from Liverpool to Preston was from Exchange Stn via Ormskirk direct, no break. That's how old I am!
Sweet ride! Thank you 🤠
Wish my employer let me use a go pro in the cab, great videos.
It may be worth asking them! Sadly mine don't anymore so this was my last video for the foreseeable future.
@Ben Elias They are extremely strict with it, can't even have smart watches etc. That's a shame! Seems to be the way most companies are going with the rules 😕
@@beneliastrains Honestly it amazes me that they did allow it in the first place.
Thanks for uploading.
Absolut sensationell 👍😀 Weiter so ☀️
Lovely ride, thank you.
Top effort to get this video out today.
Very good video! 👍👍🚆🚆
How did you get a sunny day? I have been into and out of Lime Street and hardly ever see the sky. Beautiful video. Nice to ride with you again!
Great video nice quality
Excellent picture quality
Superb footage. I'm interested to know how the 397s compare with other EMUs such as the 350 or 802 from a driver's perspective.
I certainly find 350s to be more comfortable from a passanger's perspective than 8xx classes but have not yet traveled on a 397.
Most drivers would prefer to have the 350s back. Personally I hated 350s because of the cramped cab and their poor acceleration beyond 50mph.
397s are comfortable and fast but do have a few flaws which will hopefully be sorted in due course
@@beneliastrains Yeah but what about other trains in TPE's fleet? 185s, Nova 1s and Nova 3s?
Btw the passenger seats in Nova 2 isn't comfortable as 350s, but at least they are not ironing boards like those in GTR's 717s. That's the reason why I don't like some of those modern trains, especially 345s, 378s and 710s in London with longitudinal seating layout which reduce number of seats for more standing room.
One thing i will say about the British Railways (and i have watched many cab view train rides and with Dove tails many many hours of simulated routes) they have some of the most unkempt rail lines in Europe. Because much of the rest of what i saw in Europe, i can tell that they take great care of their lines, and often they are beautiful parts of the urban areas. I have seen few British rail lines in urban areas that looked even half decent. Its sad 2 because on this route (as on many others) there are so many beautiful buildings track side and the grounds between them and the rail lines are just hideous!. The British rail system is so amazing that if they landscaped it and then took care of it it would be the nations greatest treasure and hugest moneymaker for tourism.
At 29.05 is that where Whitley Crossing used to be? I think it is, but much has changed since I spotted trains there in the 60s so I could easily be wrong.
Another lovely vid. Do many of these services get routed through St.Helens Junction and the Lawton curves, or is that strictly diversionary for engineering works etc.
Lowton
Nice scenic journey thanks ben cheer's bob.
I really enjoyed that.thanku
This is great!
My commute is Eccleston Park to Liverpool Lime St, but I also go the opposite direction from time to time, as far as Wigan. Seeing everything from your view is awesome, the cutting from Eccleston Park to Thatto Heath is really deep, can't really see much as a passenger, and it's great to be able to see the approach to Lime St. from Edge Hill.
Can i ask, what does the likes of Up chat moss, and down fast/down main mean?
Thanks.
Watching this has made me realise that there must have been a road at some point that went Sinclair Avenue over the railway and onto now where Prescot Primary school field is. Can see the old bridge at 10:19
@@craighughes4885 yeah, you can see where it has been removed if you look on Google Earth. The remains are at the end of a garden on Sinclair, , then at the edge of the school field. 👍🏻🌎
Absolutely love those trains best out there and sound amazing. Are they easier to drive than the 350. Will definitely trying one to Liverpool as I always get one to Glasgow from Carlisle. Great video
They're harder to drive than 350s because there's no speed set function. We have to maintain the train speed manually for long distances.
@@beneliastrains That a shame hopefully they can get a software update to include this. It definitely a feature that should of come with the train as with the distance used by them is long
Great video, thank you.
Hey Ben, from your personal perspective, how does the 397 compare to the 350 to operate? Is the acceleration as good as in the 350? Cheers.
Is better. On the 397s is of 0.92m/s2
So do the 397's actually reach 125 mph at any point in their journeys between Liverpool Lime Street/Manchester Airport and Edinburgh Waverley/Glasgow Central, or is it 110 mph as with other non-tilting trains?.
Not yet.
Nice one! This is my local route from Leyland/Preston to Liverpool - Once past Wigan it does seem a lot faster than the speed limit suggests there!
29:00 are you running to enhanced 125 mph or the normal speed?
The EPS speeds are only for tilting trains, so only the Pendolinos and not the 397s
@@traindriverdan And Super Voyagers
Great film but shocking how the lineside has got into such a bad state. I have a cab ride film from 1988 out of Liverpool to St Helens and it was very different then.
Do you mean you own a cassette with it on? Which is it, if so?
Also, would you consider uploading it if it isn't available elsewhere?
@@caramelldansen2204 It’s on dvd
@@EM-yk1dw I see. I suppose the same applies, if you're willing! :)
the line between Wigan North Western and Preston wasn't it a 3 track system in the 70s? as I am sure back then I saw a 3 track system from Wigan upto where the track goes in to a 4 track system at the Euxton Junction, and eventually opening up in to a 6 track system at the Skew Bridge Junction and eventually more tracks for entering Preston Station well thats what I seem to remember, although I dont remember Euxton
It certainly appears that it was 4 track up until the line was electrified in the 70s
I’ve always wondered about the single track tunnels on the left immediately as you leave Lime Street station.
Nothing interesting! It's known as the rat hole and joins back up with the other lines about 200yds from the station
I thought it was via earlstown then Golborne...
You mean filmed today!? Thumbs up!
Aye, a quick one for a change :P
Brilliant video. Not done the routes here since all the resignallings, plus electrification of the St Helens line although speed still no more than 60mph on that.
Sounds like someone has stuffed a cloth in the AWS speaker?! In my day, rolled newspaper or a bit of rag was often stuffed behind the AWS bell 😉
great video … thanks for sharing
Are you doing some more train journeys drivers eye view on UA-cam
the american train spotters would never understand this;;; no bells, over 60mph and only once did the driver blow his horn. the one thing that this vid proves to one and all is that there is definitely not enough freight on the British net work. such a shame.
Shorter distances lorry wins!!
Excellent. Thanks.
This route was our back yard for Wigan and Warrington train crews, not driven it for quite a few years prior to electrification- not too sure about those single aspect signals 👎.
Fantastic Ben thanks for this. Shame about the wind noise at higher speeds!. How does the 397 compare with the class 700?
Thankfully the wind noise has been solved on most units, this is one of the ones which hasn't been done I suspect.
700s also had bad wind noise when they were new. I preferred 700s in many ways but the routes I drive these on make it a much more enjoyable experience.
Ben Elias interesting thanks. It must be nice to sign the routes you drive with all the lovely scenery and changing gradients. Stating the obvious but it must take a lot of concentration with no speed set going via shap and beattock. Keep up the good work Ben!
Superb video.
Excellent video, at certain junctions and stations there looks to be creamed coloured sensors spaced about 20 to 30 yards apart and 3ft high, what are they please?
Lighting?
Good quality filming....
Nice trip.
02:29 that loco driver looks familiar?
;)
Intresting pathing onto the Down Slow at Balshaw Lane, is it for your route knowledge, like the mid afternoon liverpool off of Preston, going via Golborne Jcn
I'm not actually sure why we go on the slows. I don't think it's for route knowledge, no, as we don't need to sign the slows separately.
Ben Elias definatly some intresting Pathing
Lime Street - the world's oldest mainline terminal station
Yay a new video 😁
@ 35:21 RailCam subscribers might notice something in a garden on the right :)
Five star coverage
Line speed of 60 appears low on Up St Helens for the track. Any reason?
Someone didn't like trains going zoom
Is for infraestructure reasons
@@TheArkamedBat I'm assuming the tracks or the ground beneath it are slightly unstable for faster trains, cause otherwise I see no reason for there to be a slow speed limit