Your far better than most ludicrous bloggers about aviation . I appreciate how genuine you are unlike the other arrogant brads who only focus on negative aspects! Keep doing the great job ! Congrats
It's not only that he did not think about your comfort during meal service, but also the way he reclined his seat that makes me think that no matter what you had said, would not have made a difference. Takes all kinds... Thanks for the report.
Yeah, that was one of the reasons why I chose not to confront him. The best I could do was bump the seat really hard every time I got in and out of it. 😄
I have always found that asking the crew to have a word works a treat. I have no issue with anyone reclining seat on a long haul at any other time. And I always recline mine at non meal times. It’s there to be used.
I recently flew AF from Paris to Dubai in one of their older 777, the seats in premium economy were different. Due to its design, even when fully reclined, the space of the person behind would not be affected at all. So I kept that huge leg room even when the seat in front of me was fully reclined. It felt a lot more private as well. I am not sure if I had that same amount of recline, but felt like being enough for premium economy. I feel like the new seats are not as good as the older ones, but some people said that those "older seats" were not too comfortable, not sure why. Not sure how is it in the A350, but in the 777, there is a significant difference between the space in Economy vs Premium economy, on the way back to Europe I took economy (something I came to regret) as was very cramped, meal size and choices were smaller as well. Depending on the price, this could still be worth it.
JAL definitely made the right choice with their clamshell Premium Economy seats in their new A350-1000. Never any intrusion into the personal space of the person behind.
That recline is actually ridiculous. I get the guy in front was probably tired, but if it's interfering with having your meal or using the IFE then I would have asked to pull the seat upright a bit. Definitely a flaw in the design - if you're paying that much extra for premium, being pinned in your seat (like that poor lady sitting next to you) ain't it.
You’re very welcome! Yeah, I’ve been on a bullet train kick for long haul international flights recently. Not sure why, but it just gets me in the right mood I guess. 😅
The airline skips my mind, but I was on another foreign carrier going across the Atlantic to LAX with economy seats that reclined that much. During meals I would have bopped the person on the head in front of me to pull up their seat. It's only common courtesy to straighten your seat. During other times you just have to deal with it, although if you want to get up to use the restroom you need a can opener to get out of your seat. Two can openers if you don't have an aisle seat.
Hi Scott, great video and great patience on your part. I recently flew from Paris to Tokyo on AF in the same seat. I'm 1.90m tall and when the front seat was pushed back I felt overwhelmed for 14 hours of flight. If I hadn't slept enough I think I would have asked the flight attendant for a tranquilizer...
I had the same space issues with BA Premium Economy recently on their 4-class 777-200. The cabin crew were not willing to ask the person in front to reduce the recline during meal service, and it was difficult to get out of the middle seats too. It seemed to be a bit better on their 787-10 but it was still a bit tight.
Fascinating to watch this as I flew Air France 777 Premium Economy back in December from JFK to Paris CDG and that version actually has the clamshell design so that the recline doesn't affect your fellow passengers, interesting to see that the A350 version does not have this variation though... If only airlines could have a uniform cabin layout across their fleets 😂🙈 Anyways great job Scott as always 👍🏻😎
I took this flight in October last year in economy. The leg room was so bad that I had to use my pillow to cushion my knees against the seat. The KLM flight back (on a 777) was much better! Great vid!
I've flown it hundreds of times long haul on all AF's equipment and it's really not bad, although KLM's Economy Comfort offers more leg room in the first rows of cattle class. I'm 5'9
Finally, someone who appreciates AF's livery. I would be so annoyed if someone reclined their seat like that, I don't think talking to him would have made a difference. That snack box looks so good.
Thank you for this review, I especially appreciate a Premium Economy seat review. For the record, I would have said something to the guy in front of you during meal service and agreed that everyone gets to recline during the time to sleep.
Wow that recline was intense! However that birds-eye view of the aftermath was pretty cutting-edge and a perspective I haven’t seen from other av-UA-camrs
We flew AF from Paris to Bangkok a few weeks ago. Hated the fact that on full recline it's impossible for the person behind to get out their chair or view their screen properly. I'm sure these AF seats are just a bit narrower so felt very confined. Btw, KLM use the same seats. Great to see new stuff from you
@@alexmcwhirter6611 it was a 777 but same seats exactly in PE. These are the newer long haul seats being installed in both KLM and AF who we fly with often.
Yippie, another SANspotter review from Scott!! How did you get lucky with having an empty car on the Airtrain or whatever O'Hare calls their automated people mover? I have been on that thing all times of the day from 4:30am to almost midnight, including midday, and it is always packed when I ride it. I totally agree with you about Terminal 5, and the new Delta portion of the terminal has done nothing to improve it. There are poor food options, and the only Priority Pass lounge in all of O'hare is in Terminal 5, the Swiss Lounge that almost never allows Priority Pass members in (I had a Credit Card that came with Priority Pass, but that was dropped, so I guess it doesn't matter anymore). Maybe once the new global terminal opens (if it gets built) and Terminal 5 becomes a Skyteam/Southwest/ULCC terminal primarily, things will get better. Or maybe not.
Hey John! Apparently 10:45 AM is when it’s the least busy. 🤷🏼♂️😄 But yeah, I was really surprised to see that both Delta and Southwest have moved into T5. That was news to me. I also wasn’t aware that there is a new international terminal planned. I’d be glad to chip in a few bucks for that to happen!
Yes I would said something or asked the crew to do so. It is common courtesy to put your seat upright for meal service. This is what is practiced in SQ & CX economy.
Great review! That “seat in your face” situation would be very frustrating for me. I think I would just cozy up with that awesome lap blanket and sleep it off! 😁
Kudos for keeping a positive attitude and making best of things. I'm one of the few people who prefer fixed shell seats that recline or slide forward for exactly that reason. It might be slightly less of a recline but it's enough for me, especially if I never have to deal with this situation. Unfortunately only few airlines offer them in PE (Japan Airlines and Swiss for example)
@@sanspotter absolutely! Industry leading seat pitch (42 inches!), the previously mentioned fixed shell seats, depending on the airport you get lounge access and of course.... Japanese service is one of the best. (If you fly JFK-HND, you can already try out their brand new cabin on the A350-1000. )
Hi Scott. It's just as well you got all those steps in, at the airport, considering how you were "stuck" in your seat. That bloke in row 10, reclining his seat so far, would have really pissed me off. I reckon I would next a chiropractor after twisting my back , if I was trying to get up !
I recently flew with KLM on a flight from Lima to Amsterdam in Premium Economy (B777). Thanks to a few reviews, I decided on taking the bulkhead row. It was amazing, lots of legroom and especially nobody in front to recline into your personal space. In the flight from AMS to LIM I flew business; although it was amazing and I would love to fligh business every single time (the inflight crew were wonderful), price-quality wise the bulkhead row of PE was better. Concerning the 'annoying' guy utilising the full recline: It is the responsibility of the airline to provide a comfortable flight and adjust the seat pitch accordingly. You cannot blame the passenger in front, he is just using wat the airliner allows him to use (with the exception of mealtime). The airliner should design better seats or limit the pitch. Liked the video a lot; keep up the good work!
I flew their premium economy seat on the 777 which feature a clam shell design. That is realy nice and would recommend that for sure! Gratis video @sanspotter!
Great video Scott my friend! I hope to try the BRILLIANT NEW Air France A350-900 sometime soon for the FAB food and isn't she just such a STUNNING JET! I've always loved the AF livery its smooth lines, classy colors & laidback calming colours on the GORGEOUS A350 it is just THE BEST LIVERY on ANY AIRLINE and on ANY A350 for sure! Cheers 🥂 my friend Here's to Air France also, I will use T5 at O'Hare this winter when I fly Lufthansa's B747 to Frankfurt which I CANNOT WAIT FOR don't get me wrong but T5 at ORD looks pretty poor! Finally, if I was flying with Air France 🇫🇷 I'd fly their FAB new Business Class with Michelin 5 star food! 🤤 -Caleb's Aviation
You won't get any flack from me on that full recliner in front....I would have asked a Flight Attendant to suggest he sit up during the dinner service...or at least lessen the recline. But I'm a big guy and probably would have filled out that seat a whole lot more than you did. How did you contort your body to escape the seat mid-flight? I haven't flown since 2021, due to not having a need to and recovering from a badly broken leg in 2022 (still)...but somewhere down the line, I'll be back flying again. Not sure I could have escaped that seat cell. As always Scott....great review and keep flying and having fun!
Thanks so much Scott! I am flying their new retrofitted 777 tonight and changed my seat to a bulkhead. I had to give up a window seat, but based on this review, I think the bullhead aisle is the way to go (bulkhead windows are taken)!
I think the 777s still have the "shell" PE seats - can someone help verify? If so, the "shell" seats don't recline into anyone else's space which is nice. They have their own issues (not the most comfortable seat cushion and when you recline, you're reclining into your own space, so I think leg room suffers a bit during recline), but you won't have anyone reclining into you like on the A350.
All I got to say about the A350 is that,I have taken 2 flights on them,and both times the take off power just amazes me,kind of reminds me of the C-17s from when I was in the army.
I picked 10 A for an upcoming flight. I experienced the same thing in a united premium economy seat a few months ago, so now I only pick the front row for that very reason.
Two bad experiences with Air France for me. First time was from ORD to CDG on an A330. The plane got to the gate at ORD and without doing any cleaning in the cabin, they let us board anyway. There were disgusting crumbs and food particles all over my seat and the seat pocket was full of trash. Then landed at CDG where we sat on the runway for almost 2 hours (after an 8 hour flight) and they cut the AC off on us so it was super hot and uncomfortable. Fast forward to last year, I was booked on this same flight that you just took on this video. I even had premium economy seats on the same A350. A week before the trip, Air France canceled the flight with no explanation. Just canceled it and left it up to me to find my own other flight, which I did on Delta.
I’ve flown both Delta and Air Grance flights regularly to Paris. I can tell you without a doubt, the AF main cabin seats have more legroom than the Delta planes. AF main cabin felt like Delta C+ to me.
I just flew in PE from ORD to VIE on Austrian, and I noticed the same thing. I sat in the bulkhead and was very happy I did so. I also made a point of not putting my seat all the way back and never at all during meal services. If you're in the bulkhead, especially with a partner, it's much better value than business class imo. Also, Austrians planes are clean. Air France planes always seem dirty to me, but then again France is much dirtier than Austria.
Great video! We are booked in AF premium economy this summer. I’m wondering if the bulkhead seats have foot rests? If so, I would definitely book bulkhead. Otherwise, I want the footrests.
love you trips Scott. one of my favorite travel UA-camrs (and I watch many). good humour and production. i firmly believe that economy or P economy seats should recline by moving the seat part forward so it uses up the persons legroom like on trains. the back tilts but does not actually move back into the person behind.
The older recline in shell seats weren’t very comfortable, but they avoided the issue of a selfish neighbour. The absence of any menus is just sloppy, unless AF have moved this onto the screen in front?
Thanks, Scott In row 12, you can fully recline with no guilt, right? We're going to be flying that from LAX-CDG in a few months. It will be my first time not in cattle class. (My wife, who is a babe, has been upgraded when flying solo.)
You’re very welcome! Yes, you can recline fully in row 12 - but you will suffer the same fate as I did if the person in front of you reclines the full amount as well. Have a great trip!
Hello maybe I missed something but why did you spent so long in the boarding area when you had Sky Priority access on the lounge Also to be honest I personally liked the old fix PE seats that apparently a loads of people hate, with those seats no one had those problems on people reclining their seats Thank you so much for the video, great review !!! Warm regards
While reclining your seat is totally acceptable, during meal service the seat must be up. I’m surprised the cabin crew didn’t say anything, that and landing/take off are the only time it is compulsory to have the seat up
Recline time is AFTER meal service! I would have thought the crew would have said something to the guy in front. Must be a french thing. Always enjoy your trip reports!
I book 6-8 months ahead of time.. for that very reason. I would like to avoid people to lean back like that.. unless it's my family members. we flown P/E on KLM, United, Vir.A and AirFrance 777. KLM is our favorite all around.
When delays to Europe occur, check out passenger rights. The reason is key to a time and distance formula for accountability compensation, irrespective of travel class. A 45 min delay would not qualify, minimums apply.
Gotta say I expected more from the food. The meals looked close to what I got in Y with them back in 2019 and even United managed two hot meals on ORD to LHR in Decembe, a flight thats an hour shorter...
Have only travelled the AF PE clamshell seats so I don’t know for sure but these row 10 bulkhead seats might be narrower as the seats will need to accommodate the tray and IFE screen. The IFE screens might not be so good either.
Terminal 5 used to be my go-to place to hang out at ORD. Before the pandemic, it has the best food, and amazing plane spotting. You'd see A340s, 777, A330, 747, and 787s. Also you'd see a variety of international airlines, Turkish, Norwegian, SAS, Korean Air, Jordanian, etc. After the pandemic the place is a desert. Half of it is shut down, most of the restaurants are gone, and now it's a SouthWest hub. I used to sneak in taking flights to and from Phoenix on Frontier as they had two gates in terminal 5. I enjoyed hitting on the British ladies while waiting in security. I'd always let everyone I chatted up down with my admitting that I was going to Phoenix and nowhere exotic or at all interesting.
Haha, it’s hard to come off as suave when you’re only going to Phoenix. 😅 but yes, I was very surprised to see that Southwest and Delta had moved in since my last visit. It’s not even a dedicated international terminal anymore.
I recently flew on Delta out of Terminal 5 and there was nowhere to get coffee for the morning flight except for only one Dunkin Donuts that was open way down at the other end of the terminal and there was a mile long line of people at it. I think they put Delta there so that passengers arriving international on KLM and AF can more easily transfer over to Delta for the domestic leg of their flight rather than having to go through the hassle of going way over to terminal 2.
As a Chicagoan, I generally don’t mind flying out of O’Hare. Security is quick and there are lots of flight options. I’m not in the airport long enough for it to really grate on me and I think T1 is cool. But I HATE T5. It’s cramped, security sucks, the food options are limited and they close way too early. And it’s a hike to get transportation into the city.
Great review as always, regarding the recline, to do that at meal time is very rude. After the meal you should have reclined yours and that would have given you the same space as before.
Yes you should've asked the FA to ask the selfish person to move the seat forward whilst you had your meal.. if that didn't work, I would've ended up pushing his seat back and forth. Great in-depth video though mate 👍🏾
I did Paris to Singapore recently and opted for Singapore Airlines over Air France and I think I nailed it with my choice 😂. Their lovely crew asked reclining people to go upright for meal service. 12 hour flight between Paris and Singapore and I was in economy but it was pretty good on their 777😃
Thanks for the great video we changed our seats to the first row of premium economy thanks to your video. Travelling with family so we're in the middle row
Thank you for a very well made video! That’s a common problem in many premium economy products, too much recline making it almost impossible for middle seat pax to move… The A350 was AF’s first attempt at recliner seats in PE (the former version found on other aircrafts are fixed shell seats, which are better for personal space, but at the cost of much less recline). Glad to see AF finally introduced proper metal cutlery in PE (looks the same as business class actually) as it was still wooden cutlery a few months ago. Alas, the second meal is the same as economy and I don’t like this snack bag presentation which doesn’t look premium at all. All in all a pretty good flight but this cabin on AF is quite overpriced for what it is IMO. PS: that guy reclining just after take off and staying reclined during the meal service is so rude, as is the other bulkhead guy putting his shoes on the wall…
You’re very very welcome! Yup, a whole lotta rudeness going on with this one. 🤬😄 It was actually a very nice flight other than the seat recline thing IMHO.
KLM premium economy is way better the seats are very similar to Deltas domestic first class seats less crowded 2-3-2 vs 3-3-3 on regular economy on a 787-10 and better food quality closer to a business class meal. I’ve flown KLM a handful of times from SFO to AMS and I’ve never had a bad experience with them I would recommend giving them a try.
Hi, Scott. Great review. I might be in a majory of one with my next comment. I don't rate Air France at all. I have only flown them once and in business class and nevr again if I can help it. Cabin crew were not that friendly and the food was mediocre. In fact it was poor. The bread roll was so hard it broke my tooth! Give me Virgin America or Qantas everytime. Having said that I am intending to fly Lufthansa as part of a trip to Austrailia next, but it will be in first class on the iconic 747. Looking foward to that as it also involves a leg in Singapore first class as well. Thanks for the, at times, comical videos that you produce🙃🙂❤
Thank you - and you’re very welcome! I’ve only flown Air France business class once, and it wasn’t all that bad IMHO. Definitely not as nice as other airlines though. 😄 Sounds like you’ve got a very exciting trip planned - hope you enjoy it!
To be fair, under Ben Smith’s leadership, AF has changed a lot in the past few years, and for the better I think. Almost 100% of the fleet has new cabins in business with fully flat, private and full aisle access on 90% of them. WiFi available fleetwide, the AF lounges have been updated and are now very nice, and food is pretty good. The only problem is how expensive they are compared to their competition… anyway enjoy your trip in LH first in a pretty iconic aircraft!
That's unfortunate. I have had GREAT service and food in AF business. Also, the bread has always been amazing on my flights. Paired with good butter, I always eat way too much. If it's been awhile, it might be worth giving them a shot again. I do think they just switched to a new chef, so I'll be curious to see how the menus change in my future flights.
The British Airways premium economy seats on their A350’s are similar in that the recline pins you in. Getting out past a fully reclined seat is difficult. I now avoid BA premium economy based on this.
Maybe I got lucky when I flew British Airways premium economy, because I don’t remember it being this bad. I guess it all boils down to who’s sitting in front of you!
If I’m not in first or business class, I am for sure in premium economy. I always choose the first row in premium so I don’t get pinned in. Been there, done that.😂 Love the review Scott!❤✈️
Yeah, it has taken me a while to figure out that the first row of premium economy is the best. Now I really know (for sure). 😄 Glad you enjoyed the video!
“I am seeing individual pixels” 😂😢 The flight attendants should have done something about the recliner before the meal service. The more I fly, the more I am convinced people who test these seats never test them in the installed configuration and have no idea how bad they actually are.
If PE was only 3 rows, did the last row have a bulkhead behind it? If so, if that row reclined, then the only row experiencing what you experienced is the second row. The guy in front of you was just rude, R-U-D-E! Honorable mention to the guy in Row 10 with his feet on the bulkhead wall. I wouldn’t pay Air France for that seat.
There was a bulkhead wall behind the third row of PE - and I do believe that those seats fully reclined as well. They still wouldn’t be immune to the issue that I had in the second row though. I could’ve very easily reclined my seat all the way back into the person behind me.
Scott, you are a great Vlogger and 10/10 for persistence as you are in such a crowded space of flight/train/boat/hotel vloggers. Your sub count doesn't reflect the quality of your product
Damn it's been a while man! How come you don't upload every week or like every month? And that row 10 guy didn't do you justice. I hate those types of people..... Good review as always
I would definitely have talked with the person in front of you. Probably this person wasn't even aware of the situation. Will fly tomorrow with AF PE. I am looking forward to my adventure.
The way in which he reclined his seat (and left it there for the entire flight) led me to believe that there’s nothing I could’ve said to make him reconsider. Hope you have a good flight. At the very least, I hope the guy who was in front of me won’t to be in front of you. 😆
@@sanspotter thanks. I'm very excited. But on the other hand it's just 13h flight which will be over soon and than it's Sushi, Ramen and Karage for 14 days 😋
Good review. I would have asked the stewardess to get the offender to move his seat upright. Air France? On a par with BA. But their business class flights are often very competitively priced.
Seat recline like this on a long haul is ridiculous. I would definitely have complained to the F.A. That’s why I only fly Business class now on my usual long haul. Yes it costs a lot more but worth it in every way. 😊
FAs should tell the people to not recline during meal service. One flight a guy just went full recline during meal and I smelled like vodka for 5 hours
You are one of my favorite bloggers and a super nice guy… you were so kind to a disregarding Air France regarding the dysfunctionality of seats that impair basic needs and comfort. The gentleman in front of you who had no regard for you is only half the problem… we must support the airlines that respect passenger need for space… who offer the shell seats that recline forward and don't intrude into personal space. The poor woman next had to struggle to use the WC. Air France served you a mediocre meal and made you and others around you quite uncomfortable during this flight. In no way is this 'premium plus.' Based on your report I certainly wouldn't use them… and pay EXTRA for premium plus. WHAT FOR?
This is why I won’t fly PE ever again. The recline is too far. What’s even worse is being trapped at a window and straddling over the armrests. I wish they wouldn’t put such a generous recline. Unless you are in the front row, it’s no better than economy. And yes you should absolutely call a FA to tell the A hole in front to sit up during meal service.
Your far better than most ludicrous bloggers about aviation . I appreciate how genuine you are unlike the other arrogant brads who only focus on negative aspects! Keep doing the great job ! Congrats
Not naming anyone out but some of them refuse to make a video in economy. It would cramp there stuck up styles to much
It's not only that he did not think about your comfort during meal service, but also the way he reclined his seat that makes me think that no matter what you had said, would not have made a difference. Takes all kinds... Thanks for the report.
Yeah, that was one of the reasons why I chose not to confront him. The best I could do was bump the seat really hard every time I got in and out of it. 😄
It takes a special kind of a-hole to not be considerate to ppl behind you. Especially with that kind of recline.
I've generally had success asking the flight attendants to request folks in front bring their seat up for the duration of the meal service!
i'm amazed the crew just didn't tell him to sit up
That's why I always get a last row in the back of the plane next to the window don't need to worry about anyone while I recline.
I have always found that asking the crew to have a word works a treat. I have no issue with anyone reclining seat on a long haul at any other time. And I always recline mine at non meal times. It’s there to be used.
I recently flew AF from Paris to Dubai in one of their older 777, the seats in premium economy were different. Due to its design, even when fully reclined, the space of the person behind would not be affected at all. So I kept that huge leg room even when the seat in front of me was fully reclined. It felt a lot more private as well. I am not sure if I had that same amount of recline, but felt like being enough for premium economy. I feel like the new seats are not as good as the older ones, but some people said that those "older seats" were not too comfortable, not sure why.
Not sure how is it in the A350, but in the 777, there is a significant difference between the space in Economy vs Premium economy, on the way back to Europe I took economy (something I came to regret) as was very cramped, meal size and choices were smaller as well. Depending on the price, this could still be worth it.
JAL definitely made the right choice with their clamshell Premium Economy seats in their new A350-1000. Never any intrusion into the personal space of the person behind.
I can’t wait to give that a try!
First sanspotter I've seen for a while. Great script.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Never seen a review you did I didn't like, Scott. As always, good job! And thank you!
I appreciate that!
That recline is actually ridiculous. I get the guy in front was probably tired, but if it's interfering with having your meal or using the IFE then I would have asked to pull the seat upright a bit. Definitely a flaw in the design - if you're paying that much extra for premium, being pinned in your seat (like that poor lady sitting next to you) ain't it.
Seats stay forward during meal service. Solid review as always
Yes! Thank you!
Flight attendant should have said something. Maybe they don’t do that on Air France 🤔
@@commoncommenter1396I’ve had flight attendants say to passengers to put the seat upright during meal service.
i see you watching Bullet Train really matches the vibes of the LED lights on the flight. thank you for always taking us with you wherever you go!
You’re very welcome! Yeah, I’ve been on a bullet train kick for long haul international flights recently. Not sure why, but it just gets me in the right mood I guess. 😅
The airline skips my mind, but I was on another foreign carrier going across the Atlantic to LAX with economy seats that reclined that much. During meals I would have bopped the person on the head in front of me to pull up their seat. It's only common courtesy to straighten your seat. During other times you just have to deal with it, although if you want to get up to use the restroom you need a can opener to get out of your seat. Two can openers if you don't have an aisle seat.
Hi Scott, great video and great patience on your part. I recently flew from Paris to Tokyo on AF in the same seat. I'm 1.90m tall and when the front seat was pushed back I felt overwhelmed for 14 hours of flight. If I hadn't slept enough I think I would have asked the flight attendant for a tranquilizer...
I had the same space issues with BA Premium Economy recently on their 4-class 777-200. The cabin crew were not willing to ask the person in front to reduce the recline during meal service, and it was difficult to get out of the middle seats too. It seemed to be a bit better on their 787-10 but it was still a bit tight.
Fascinating to watch this as I flew Air France 777 Premium Economy back in December from JFK to Paris CDG and that version actually has the clamshell design so that the recline doesn't affect your fellow passengers, interesting to see that the A350 version does not have this variation though... If only airlines could have a uniform cabin layout across their fleets 😂🙈 Anyways great job Scott as always 👍🏻😎
Totally agree! Having different kinds of seats for each aircraft type keeps things interesting to say the least.
I took this flight in October last year in economy. The leg room was so bad that I had to use my pillow to cushion my knees against the seat. The KLM flight back (on a 777) was much better! Great vid!
Glad you enjoyed the video! And thank you for reminding me never to fly Air France economy. 😄
I've flown it hundreds of times long haul on all AF's equipment and it's really not bad, although KLM's Economy Comfort offers more leg room in the first rows of cattle class. I'm 5'9
Finally, someone who appreciates AF's livery. I would be so annoyed if someone reclined their seat like that, I don't think talking to him would have made a difference. That snack box looks so good.
I really enjoy the ambient sounds of the plane and the darkness at 10:30, it really seems nice to take some rest.
I agree! It’s a nice sound. I can’t sleep on planes unfortunately. 😵
Thank you for this review, I especially appreciate a Premium Economy seat review. For the record, I would have said something to the guy in front of you during meal service and agreed that everyone gets to recline during the time to sleep.
Wow that recline was intense! However that birds-eye view of the aftermath was pretty cutting-edge and a perspective I haven’t seen from other av-UA-camrs
We flew AF from Paris to Bangkok a few weeks ago. Hated the fact that on full recline it's impossible for the person behind to get out their chair or view their screen properly. I'm sure these AF seats are just a bit narrower so felt very confined.
Btw, KLM use the same seats.
Great to see new stuff from you
Same aircraft type ? I ask because AF considers BKK a low revenue route and used to deploy a high density 777-300 ER.
@@alexmcwhirter6611 it was a 777 but same seats exactly in PE. These are the newer long haul seats being installed in both KLM and AF who we fly with often.
Good to know about KLM using the same seats! Now maybe I won’t be so anxious to give it a try… 😄
@@sanspotter to be fair KZLM headphones are better. The core seat is the same chassis.
During meal service, I always ask the flight attendant if they can get the person in front to straighten their seat backs. Worked for me 100% so far.
Yippie, another SANspotter review from Scott!!
How did you get lucky with having an empty car on the Airtrain or whatever O'Hare calls their automated people mover? I have been on that thing all times of the day from 4:30am to almost midnight, including midday, and it is always packed when I ride it.
I totally agree with you about Terminal 5, and the new Delta portion of the terminal has done nothing to improve it. There are poor food options, and the only Priority Pass lounge in all of O'hare is in Terminal 5, the Swiss Lounge that almost never allows Priority Pass members in (I had a Credit Card that came with Priority Pass, but that was dropped, so I guess it doesn't matter anymore). Maybe once the new global terminal opens (if it gets built) and Terminal 5 becomes a Skyteam/Southwest/ULCC terminal primarily, things will get better. Or maybe not.
Hey John! Apparently 10:45 AM is when it’s the least busy. 🤷🏼♂️😄 But yeah, I was really surprised to see that both Delta and Southwest have moved into T5. That was news to me. I also wasn’t aware that there is a new international terminal planned. I’d be glad to chip in a few bucks for that to happen!
Yes I would said something or asked the crew to do so. It is common courtesy to put your seat upright for meal service. This is what is practiced in SQ & CX economy.
Great review! That “seat in your face” situation would be very frustrating for me. I think I would just cozy up with that awesome lap blanket and sleep it off! 😁
The blanket definitely made it worth it! The pillow was 👌🏻 too.
Kudos for keeping a positive attitude and making best of things.
I'm one of the few people who prefer fixed shell seats that recline or slide forward for exactly that reason. It might be slightly less of a recline but it's enough for me, especially if I never have to deal with this situation.
Unfortunately only few airlines offer them in PE (Japan Airlines and Swiss for example)
Everyone keeps mentioning JAL premium economy - sounds like it’s something I need to try!
@@sanspotter absolutely! Industry leading seat pitch (42 inches!), the previously mentioned fixed shell seats, depending on the airport you get lounge access and of course.... Japanese service is one of the best. (If you fly JFK-HND, you can already try out their brand new cabin on the A350-1000. )
Fantastic trip report as always Scott!
Thanks Ryan!
Hi Scott.
It's just as well you got all those steps in, at the airport, considering how you were "stuck" in your seat.
That bloke in row 10, reclining his seat so far, would have really pissed me off. I reckon I would next a chiropractor after twisting my back , if I was trying to get up !
It definitely sucked. How people can be so selfish and inconsiderate is beyond me. 🤷🏼♂️
Really appreciate the fact that you blur the faces of other passengers
I recently flew with KLM on a flight from Lima to Amsterdam in Premium Economy (B777). Thanks to a few reviews, I decided on taking the bulkhead row. It was amazing, lots of legroom and especially nobody in front to recline into your personal space.
In the flight from AMS to LIM I flew business; although it was amazing and I would love to fligh business every single time (the inflight crew were wonderful), price-quality wise the bulkhead row of PE was better.
Concerning the 'annoying' guy utilising the full recline: It is the responsibility of the airline to provide a comfortable flight and adjust the seat pitch accordingly. You cannot blame the passenger in front, he is just using wat the airliner allows him to use (with the exception of mealtime). The airliner should design better seats or limit the pitch.
Liked the video a lot; keep up the good work!
I had the same issue returning to US - guy ahead of me reclined the entire flight. So I felt cramped in Premium Economy. I feel your pain!
I flew their premium economy seat on the 777 which feature a clam shell design. That is realy nice and would recommend that for sure! Gratis video @sanspotter!
But very uncomfortable to sleep and you lose the legroom when sliding forward to recline
Great video Scott my friend! I hope to try the BRILLIANT NEW Air France A350-900 sometime soon for the FAB food and isn't she just such a STUNNING JET! I've always loved the AF livery its smooth lines, classy colors & laidback calming colours on the GORGEOUS A350 it is just THE BEST LIVERY on ANY AIRLINE and on ANY A350 for sure!
Cheers 🥂 my friend
Here's to Air France also, I will use T5 at O'Hare this winter when I fly Lufthansa's B747 to Frankfurt which I CANNOT WAIT FOR don't get me wrong but T5 at ORD looks pretty poor! Finally, if I was flying with Air France 🇫🇷 I'd fly their FAB new Business Class with Michelin 5 star food! 🤤
-Caleb's Aviation
You won't get any flack from me on that full recliner in front....I would have asked a Flight Attendant to suggest he sit up during the dinner service...or at least lessen the recline. But I'm a big guy and probably would have filled out that seat a whole lot more than you did.
How did you contort your body to escape the seat mid-flight? I haven't flown since 2021, due to not having a need to and recovering from a badly broken leg in 2022 (still)...but somewhere down the line, I'll be back flying again. Not sure I could have escaped that seat cell. As always Scott....great review and keep flying and having fun!
Babe, wake up, a SANspotter video dropped!
👀🍿
Thanks so much Scott! I am flying their new retrofitted 777 tonight and changed my seat to a bulkhead. I had to give up a window seat, but based on this review, I think the bullhead aisle is the way to go (bulkhead windows are taken)!
I think the 777s still have the "shell" PE seats - can someone help verify? If so, the "shell" seats don't recline into anyone else's space which is nice. They have their own issues (not the most comfortable seat cushion and when you recline, you're reclining into your own space, so I think leg room suffers a bit during recline), but you won't have anyone reclining into you like on the A350.
How was the flight? Which seats did your plane have?
All I got to say about the A350 is that,I have taken 2 flights on them,and both times the take off power just amazes me,kind of reminds me of the C-17s from when I was in the army.
I picked 10 A for an upcoming flight. I experienced the same thing in a united premium economy seat a few months ago, so now I only pick the front row for that very reason.
Two bad experiences with Air France for me. First time was from ORD to CDG on an A330. The plane got to the gate at ORD and without doing any cleaning in the cabin, they let us board anyway. There were disgusting crumbs and food particles all over my seat and the seat pocket was full of trash. Then landed at CDG where we sat on the runway for almost 2 hours (after an 8 hour flight) and they cut the AC off on us so it was super hot and uncomfortable. Fast forward to last year, I was booked on this same flight that you just took on this video. I even had premium economy seats on the same A350. A week before the trip, Air France canceled the flight with no explanation. Just canceled it and left it up to me to find my own other flight, which I did on Delta.
Wow
I could hear that iconic Scott Sigh right from that thumbnail text alone!
I’m thinking maybe I should trademark that. 🤔😆
I’ve flown both Delta and Air Grance flights regularly to Paris. I can tell you without a doubt, the AF main cabin seats have more legroom than the Delta planes. AF main cabin felt like Delta C+ to me.
I just flew in PE from ORD to VIE on Austrian, and I noticed the same thing. I sat in the bulkhead and was very happy I did so. I also made a point of not putting my seat all the way back and never at all during meal services. If you're in the bulkhead, especially with a partner, it's much better value than business class imo. Also, Austrians planes are clean. Air France planes always seem dirty to me, but then again France is much dirtier than Austria.
Great video! We are booked in AF premium economy this summer. I’m wondering if the bulkhead seats have foot rests? If so, I would definitely book bulkhead. Otherwise, I want the footrests.
love you trips Scott. one of my favorite travel UA-camrs (and I watch many). good humour and production. i firmly believe that economy or P economy seats should recline by moving the seat part forward so it uses up the persons legroom like
on trains. the back tilts but does not actually move back into the person behind.
Wow, thanks! I totally agree - this style of premium economy seat doesn’t work all that well on longer flights IMHO.
The person reclining reminded me of a flight I was on where the person in front of me decided to do so right after lift off. Full force slam back.
I hope you at least “accidentally” bumped their seat for the entire flight. 😆
Beautiful Air Craft,I Like The Cuisine Aboard,I Like The Seat Better On The A330.Great Video
I just booked 10J from CDG to AUH because of this video... thanks!
The older recline in shell seats weren’t very comfortable, but they avoided the issue of a selfish neighbour. The absence of any menus is just sloppy, unless AF have moved this onto the screen in front?
Yes, the menu was indeed part of the in-flight entertainment system (something I only discovered after the meal service 😄).
Thanks, Scott
In row 12, you can fully recline with no guilt, right? We're going to be flying that from LAX-CDG in a few months. It will be my first time not in cattle class. (My wife, who is a babe, has been upgraded when flying solo.)
You’re very welcome! Yes, you can recline fully in row 12 - but you will suffer the same fate as I did if the person in front of you reclines the full amount as well. Have a great trip!
Hello maybe I missed something but why did you spent so long in the boarding area when you had Sky Priority access on the lounge
Also to be honest I personally liked the old fix PE seats that apparently a loads of people hate, with those seats no one had those problems on people reclining their seats
Thank you so much for the video, great review !!! Warm regards
While reclining your seat is totally acceptable, during meal service the seat must be up. I’m surprised the cabin crew didn’t say anything, that and landing/take off are the only time it is compulsory to have the seat up
Seems like it was late enough to try sleeping, so why didn’t you recline yourself and sleep as well? That’s what I would be doing anyway.
Recline time is AFTER meal service! I would have thought the crew would have said something to the guy in front. Must be a french thing. Always enjoy your trip reports!
I book 6-8 months ahead of time.. for that very reason. I would like to avoid people to lean back like that.. unless it's my family members. we flown P/E on KLM, United, Vir.A and AirFrance 777. KLM is our favorite all around.
Interesting that you like KLM premium economy the most. That’s the one I haven’t tried yet, but it sounds like maybe I should. 🤔
You really need to try the old shell premium seat. Hard as a rock. I never had my ass hurt as bad as it did on that flight. Even sitting on 2 pillows
Great flight as always.
Thanks ✌
When delays to Europe occur, check out passenger rights. The reason is key to a time and distance formula for accountability compensation, irrespective of travel class. A 45 min delay would not qualify, minimums apply.
Gotta say I expected more from the food. The meals looked close to what I got in Y with them back in 2019 and even United managed two hot meals on ORD to LHR in Decembe, a flight thats an hour shorter...
Have only travelled the AF PE clamshell seats so I don’t know for sure but these row 10 bulkhead seats might be narrower as the seats will need to accommodate the tray and IFE screen. The IFE screens might not be so good either.
Terminal 5 used to be my go-to place to hang out at ORD. Before the pandemic, it has the best food, and amazing plane spotting. You'd see A340s, 777, A330, 747, and 787s. Also you'd see a variety of international airlines, Turkish, Norwegian, SAS, Korean Air, Jordanian, etc. After the pandemic the place is a desert. Half of it is shut down, most of the restaurants are gone, and now it's a SouthWest hub. I used to sneak in taking flights to and from Phoenix on Frontier as they had two gates in terminal 5. I enjoyed hitting on the British ladies while waiting in security. I'd always let everyone I chatted up down with my admitting that I was going to Phoenix and nowhere exotic or at all interesting.
Haha, it’s hard to come off as suave when you’re only going to Phoenix. 😅 but yes, I was very surprised to see that Southwest and Delta had moved in since my last visit. It’s not even a dedicated international terminal anymore.
I recently flew on Delta out of Terminal 5 and there was nowhere to get coffee for the morning flight except for only one Dunkin Donuts that was open way down at the other end of the terminal and there was a mile long line of people at it. I think they put Delta there so that passengers arriving international on KLM and AF can more easily transfer over to Delta for the domestic leg of their flight rather than having to go through the hassle of going way over to terminal 2.
As a Chicagoan, I generally don’t mind flying out of O’Hare. Security is quick and there are lots of flight options. I’m not in the airport long enough for it to really grate on me and I think T1 is cool. But I HATE T5. It’s cramped, security sucks, the food options are limited and they close way too early. And it’s a hike to get transportation into the city.
I love the Air France safety video.
Great review as always, regarding the recline, to do that at meal time is very rude. After the meal you should have reclined yours and that would have given you the same space as before.
I flew from Paris to Chicago last year in January and it was an experience next to the person I was sitting with in economy
The menu is available on your screen. There is a specific section to check it
Yes you should've asked the FA to ask the selfish person to move the seat forward whilst you had your meal.. if that didn't work, I would've ended up pushing his seat back and forth.
Great in-depth video though mate 👍🏾
Great video. Highly recommend Virgin's Premium Economy. Incredible service and food... nothing like a good English breakfast to welcome you to London.
I did Paris to Singapore recently and opted for Singapore Airlines over Air France and I think I nailed it with my choice 😂. Their lovely crew asked reclining people to go upright for meal service. 12 hour flight between Paris and Singapore and I was in economy but it was pretty good on their 777😃
Yeah, there are few other carriers that I would choose over Singapore Airlines. Air France is definitely not one of them. 😄
"Clogged up Real Good" I'm probably the only one that caught that reference...SCTV..Home Alone...O'Hara...John Candy😂😂😂
I liked this product of Air France, the service and experience. I flew in a B777-300 🛫
Thanks for the great video we changed our seats to the first row of premium economy thanks to your video. Travelling with family so we're in the middle row
Happed to me on my first international flight from Chicago to Paris haha. I bumped their seat every 20 minutes to let them know I’m 6’3
Thank you for a very well made video! That’s a common problem in many premium economy products, too much recline making it almost impossible for middle seat pax to move… The A350 was AF’s first attempt at recliner seats in PE (the former version found on other aircrafts are fixed shell seats, which are better for personal space, but at the cost of much less recline). Glad to see AF finally introduced proper metal cutlery in PE (looks the same as business class actually) as it was still wooden cutlery a few months ago. Alas, the second meal is the same as economy and I don’t like this snack bag presentation which doesn’t look premium at all. All in all a pretty good flight but this cabin on AF is quite overpriced for what it is IMO. PS: that guy reclining just after take off and staying reclined during the meal service is so rude, as is the other bulkhead guy putting his shoes on the wall…
You’re very very welcome! Yup, a whole lotta rudeness going on with this one. 🤬😄 It was actually a very nice flight other than the seat recline thing IMHO.
Thanks for the info and video!!!
KLM premium economy is way better the seats are very similar to Deltas domestic first class seats less crowded 2-3-2 vs 3-3-3 on regular economy on a 787-10 and better food quality closer to a business class meal. I’ve flown KLM a handful of times from SFO to AMS and I’ve never had a bad experience with them I would recommend giving them a try.
Hi, Scott. Great review. I might be in a majory of one with my next comment. I don't rate Air France at all. I have only flown them once and in business class and nevr again if I can help it. Cabin crew were not that friendly and the food was mediocre. In fact it was poor. The bread roll was so hard it broke my tooth! Give me Virgin America or Qantas everytime. Having said that I am intending to fly Lufthansa as part of a trip to Austrailia next, but it will be in first class on the iconic 747. Looking foward to that as it also involves a leg in Singapore first class as well. Thanks for the, at times, comical videos that you produce🙃🙂❤
Thank you - and you’re very welcome! I’ve only flown Air France business class once, and it wasn’t all that bad IMHO. Definitely not as nice as other airlines though. 😄 Sounds like you’ve got a very exciting trip planned - hope you enjoy it!
To be fair, under Ben Smith’s leadership, AF has changed a lot in the past few years, and for the better I think. Almost 100% of the fleet has new cabins in business with fully flat, private and full aisle access on 90% of them. WiFi available fleetwide, the AF lounges have been updated and are now very nice, and food is pretty good. The only problem is how expensive they are compared to their competition… anyway enjoy your trip in LH first in a pretty iconic aircraft!
That's unfortunate. I have had GREAT service and food in AF business. Also, the bread has always been amazing on my flights. Paired with good butter, I always eat way too much. If it's been awhile, it might be worth giving them a shot again. I do think they just switched to a new chef, so I'll be curious to see how the menus change in my future flights.
The British Airways premium economy seats on their A350’s are similar in that the recline pins you in. Getting out past a fully reclined seat is difficult. I now avoid BA premium economy based on this.
Maybe I got lucky when I flew British Airways premium economy, because I don’t remember it being this bad. I guess it all boils down to who’s sitting in front of you!
My opinion is that the stewards should told the passenger in front you to put the seat up during the meal.
All of the sudden the "cradle seats" in the B777 were not that bad, 10" recline is just bad all in all.
Did I spot Xeros? Great taste and video!
If I’m not in first or business class, I am for sure in premium economy. I always choose the first row in premium so I don’t get pinned in. Been there, done that.😂 Love the review Scott!❤✈️
Yeah, it has taken me a while to figure out that the first row of premium economy is the best. Now I really know (for sure). 😄 Glad you enjoyed the video!
Air France had hard shell designs, then did a complete 180 when people didn’t like them. That recline is ludicrous!
Seems like they just can’t win 😄
Im booked on this aircraft in row 11. Does row 10 also have a footrest?
The Iberia A350 Premium economy seats have the same problem, and it should be mandatory to put the seat upright during meal service.
“I am seeing individual pixels” 😂😢
The flight attendants should have done something about the recliner before the meal service.
The more I fly, the more I am convinced people who test these seats never test them in the installed configuration and have no idea how bad they actually are.
This was the first time in a while that I’ve seen flight attendants not enforcing the “seats up” rule at meal time. They didn’t seem to care.
If PE was only 3 rows, did the last row have a bulkhead behind it? If so, if that row reclined, then the only row experiencing what you experienced is the second row.
The guy in front of you was just rude, R-U-D-E! Honorable mention to the guy in Row 10 with his feet on the bulkhead wall. I wouldn’t pay Air France for that seat.
There was a bulkhead wall behind the third row of PE - and I do believe that those seats fully reclined as well. They still wouldn’t be immune to the issue that I had in the second row though. I could’ve very easily reclined my seat all the way back into the person behind me.
@@sanspotter
You’re correct. I missed that.
Scott, you are a great Vlogger and 10/10 for persistence as you are in such a crowded space of flight/train/boat/hotel vloggers. Your sub count doesn't reflect the quality of your product
Thank you! I’m not trying to be famous anything - I’m just enjoying sharing my experiences that all.
Damn it's been a while man! How come you don't upload every week or like every month? And that row 10 guy didn't do you justice. I hate those types of people.....
Good review as always
Such a small cabin. I bet those seats fill up quickly.
I would definitely have talked with the person in front of you. Probably this person wasn't even aware of the situation. Will fly tomorrow with AF PE. I am looking forward to my adventure.
The way in which he reclined his seat (and left it there for the entire flight) led me to believe that there’s nothing I could’ve said to make him reconsider. Hope you have a good flight. At the very least, I hope the guy who was in front of me won’t to be in front of you. 😆
@@sanspotter thanks. I'm very excited. But on the other hand it's just 13h flight which will be over soon and than it's Sushi, Ramen and Karage for 14 days 😋
I loved the Veal Blanquette dish
Good review.
I would have asked the stewardess to get the offender to move his seat upright.
Air France? On a par with BA. But their business class flights are often very competitively priced.
Thanks! I’m kicking myself now for not having the courage to speak up at the time. 😅
Seat recline like this on a long haul is ridiculous. I would definitely have complained to the F.A. That’s why I only fly Business class now on my usual long haul. Yes it costs a lot more but worth it in every way. 😊
you didn't walk to the nice new part of terminal 5?
I did. Multiple times during my 5 hour wait for this flight. I basically feel like I know T5 like the back of my hand now. 😄
FAs should tell the people to not recline during meal service. One flight a guy just went full recline during meal and I smelled like vodka for 5 hours
Ugh! Normally the flight attendants are good about this sort of thing, but not on this particular flight for some reason.
I also love it when you upload!
Glad you enjoy my videos!
You are one of my favorite bloggers and a super nice guy… you were so kind to a disregarding Air France regarding the dysfunctionality of seats that impair basic needs and comfort. The gentleman in front of you who had no regard for you is only half the problem… we must support the airlines that respect passenger need for space… who offer the shell seats that recline forward and don't intrude into personal space. The poor woman next had to struggle to use the WC. Air France served you a mediocre meal and made you and others around you quite uncomfortable during this flight. In no way is this 'premium plus.' Based on your report I certainly wouldn't use them… and pay EXTRA for premium plus. WHAT FOR?
CANn you on row 10 extend fully your legs with the bulkhead wall in front of you when you are 6'2 Foot?
Possibly. If not, it’ll be really close.
The crew should have told him to bring his seat forward for the duration of the meal service.
This is why I won’t fly PE ever again. The recline is too far. What’s even worse is being trapped at a window and straddling over the armrests. I wish they wouldn’t put such a generous recline. Unless you are in the front row, it’s no better than economy. And yes you should absolutely call a FA to tell the A hole in front to sit up during meal service.
I have the women’s version of those Prios and also don’t love crumbly food while traveling. 😅