@Key Issues Hey Garrick do you like the new canon, because for they fucked everything up for me Sith Lords that everyone favored like bane,reven, and mal and all other legends characters doesn’t matter anymore they have make way for less interesting and developed characters
@@CRISIS_COMICS oh personally I thought the newer characters were done poorly, anyway off topic I saw your raiden scaling video so in your opinion in reference to the death battle video who would win wolverine or raiden love your vids 😊
About Yoda being number one, he is definitely more force attuned than Mace Windu. Also, the reason that Mace was able to win against Sidious is because of the form of lightsaber combat that he was proficient in. Mace used Vaa-paad, a form that he helped create, which is kind of a lightside form seven. Form Seven is the last, most powerful, most aggressive and hardest form of lightsaber combat, and it draws upon your bloodlust and love of fighting to power you up, kind of like Force Rage. Vaa-paad does the same thing but it draws from the rage of your opponent. On top of that it was forbidden to study for all Jedi, except a select few that the council deemed mentally stable enough to try and study the seventh form. So, when Mace goes up against Palpatine he is uniquely powered up because of how much the dark side consumes Sidious. This is also the reason that Mace has a purple saber, because having a purple saber indicates that you are a lightside being that uses the darkside for the greater good. So, yes, whilst I agree that he should have been higher on the list(I personally think number two) Yoda still surpass him in general knowledge and skill. This is also the reason that Obi-wan wins against Greivous and Anakin-ish, but looses against Dooku. Obi wan was THE master of Soresu of his time, which means that he is by far the best defensive dueler in the order. Soresu, or form three, is the defensive form, developed for combat against blasters, and also to fit the Jedi ideology more, as a relatively passive form primarily used for self defense. Obi-Wan dedicates himself to this form after seeing Qui-gon die because of his overuse of form four in a tight space, which is the acrobatic form and and also the form that Obi-Wan used at the time, being very popular amongst padawans, whom were younger and generally more energetic than their older masters. Why he won against Grevious is because he could withstand his lightning fast attacks (18 strikes per second!) and slowly widdle him down in a marathon duel, making use of his surroundings. This is also (partially, Anakin wasn't really in a good headspace at the time) why he won against Anakin. Obi-Wan could Take Anakin's form five (The form of strength and counter attack) assault and wait Anakin out until he was tired, and Obi-Wan got an opening (see the high-ground for more information). This is also why he lost against Dooku. Dooku used form two, Makashi, which was the dueling form. Makashi used precise strikes and energy-efficient movement to kind of breakdown defenses, so it was the perfect counter to Obi-Wans Soresu.
I really like this comment, but one thing is that the only reason Mace Windu had a purple lightsaber in the prequels is because Samuel L. Jackson asked George Lucas if he could have a purple lightsaber. Other than that, spot on!
@@KeyIssues I think yaddle is very powerful . Although there are no feats for her she is not only part of the council and a master but she is part of yoda’s species which is known for being very powerful in the force
Key issues: states that’s its cannon that Anakin lost to Obi wan for his mental instability Me: so his mental state was not on the high ground and Obi wan was
Holy carp this is such a funny meme / joke / gag hahaha lmfao holy fucking shit dude like this is like literally next level how did you even come up with this I've never heard a joke as original or as funny as this before like you were actually a god my guy You could seriously be a comic if you wanted to I am literally rolling on the ground right now coughing blood due to my uncontrollable fit of wheezing laughter this joke was so funny You have literally ascended beyond the heavens You have become God himself keep it up dude such a funny and original gag.
I gotta say, you’re being a bit unfair to Obiwan. He’s the master of the defensive style of lightsaber combat. I agree he’s not the 4th most powerful Jedi ever in Canon but you’re doing him dirty with what you’re saying
Technically Yoda did beat Sidious. At the beginning of their duel Sidious tried to run from Yoda, that just goes to show how afraid of Yoda he was. The duel between Yoda and Sidious starts off pretty evenly matched, but eventually somewhere down the line Sidious was losing drastically, because Yoda is the better duelist. Sidious decides to throw away his lightsaber and focus on his force abilities, where he technically has an edge. Yoda manages to keep up with Sidious and then this is where they meet with all of their strength. Yoda and Palpatine were both standing on the edges of a very small pod, Palpatine releases the full power of his force lightning at this point. As we've seen before it has the power to disintegrate others. Yoda is able to use tutaminis which is a light side ability, and he absorbs all the lightning. If you pay close attention to their facial expressions you can tell that Palpatine knew he lost against Yoda. While Yoda failed his mission to kill Palpatine, he was still able to beat the self proclaimed Emperor. Now onto Mace vs Palpatine, it's been confirmed that Palpatine was giving it his all. If he wasn't confident enough in his lightsaber skills he would've fallen back to his force abilities, like he did with Yoda. Palpatine went into the duel with Mace with full confidence that he was going to win, what he was not ready for was the power of Vaapad. Not only was Vaapad a lightsaber form but it was a direct counter to the darkside. In his duel with Palpatine, Mace was taking all of his power and throwing it right back. Mace is quite the powerhouse and in some cases is on par with Yoda, but without Vaapad Mace wouldn't have beaten Palpatine. All of this is really my opinion and if you read all this I would like to say thank you.
@SHAME that is an very good assessment. Always felt Yoda was a bit stronger. Mace would also not be able to use vapaad against Yoda because if am not mistaken does it only work on darkside users.
@@eliasbengtsson9315 Yes, vapaad does draw strength from the darkside, that's why when Grevious copied Vapaad it was useless to him since he only had the physical aspect
@@adityabhalekar3506 not really because Yoda still won the fight, he just failed his mission. Sure he could've went a few rounds in force abilities with Sidious, but that would've ended up in more stalemates and lowered his chances of escape with the clones coming.
“Obi-Wan only beat Anakin because he was in emotional turmoil” “Mace Windu beat Sidious, Yoda did not” Couldn’t you argue that Yoda was in emotional turmoil because of order 66? In fact... aren’t MOST people who are fighting to the DEATH probably going to experience some sort of “emotional turmoil”? I agree with a lot of your reasoning in most of this video, but that’s the one really shaky part.
I always figured Mace also was massively amped against Sidious by using Vaapad. While he is easily top 5 Jedi without question, I think his form is what won that fight.
Yoda did beat sidious. He disarmed him and the only reason he "lost" was where he was placed in the fight the moment sidious used lightning. If you swapped yodas and sideous position yoda would fall on the seat and sideous would fall 100 feet down
@@doczoid- he was. His style user gets a boost tyen fighting a negatively aggressive fighter. Its why power scaling him doesn't work. His power level changes depending on who he fights
Anakin wasn't just emotionally compromised and also, Obi-Wan used his knowledge of his student against himself. He knows how impatient Anakin can be, and he knows his combat style. One other important thing, as stated in the RotS novelisation, Obi-Wan is THE Master of Soresu, which makes his lightsaber defense practically impenetrable. (But sadly his Force powers are not that great, hence why he was ragdolled so easily by Dooku.) The combination of all of that allowed him to cut down and essentially defeat Anakin. To finish, it's in line with what has been said in the video: Obi-Wan is weaker than Anakin, even though he beat him on Mustafar. Cheers from France! 🍻
Thats Legends where GG is much more powerful. We can even give ObiWan a solid feat of beating him here, and ObiWan is strongly praised in the novel for this. GG also goes toe to toe with WIndu in the books as well, its not something to just ignore how powerful GG was in legends
@@giancarlofregoso8 We do not know how she died. For example was she ambushed by GG and multiple magnaguards? So yes i think your assumption is a hasty one
@@taiyo9581 Eh, i would say her feat in he animated series was very impressive (2003 series btw), its not canon but i does tell us quite a lot of how some percieved her
Idk why you're saying Ahsoka scales above/around Anakin? To my knowledge her at her best is her duel with Vader who scales below Anakin because he loses force power and speed when he gets mutilated by Obi Wan.
"His injuries had deformed his body, left it broken, but they'd perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force." -Star Wars Lords of the Sith (2016)
Wasn’t Sasee Tin one of the best pilot it’s in the order, and was one of the most skilled. Also Yaddle was able to use the force to absorb anything, and she died absorbing the energy of a doomsday device capable of destroying a planet.
Frozo 1290 No Sasee Tinn is one of the best duelists, that is why he is in Mace Windus task force, those 4 are some of the best Jedi. Also if there isn’t a canon explanation for Yaddle, than we need to use legends, also Yaddle is still powerful as she is talked about in Canon and was said to be strong.
Legends was canon, until Disney bought them, which doesn't change anything imo. Also, the majority of the films are fucking garbage compared to the books.
Here’s an argument for obi wan (see to it how you will), in George Lucas’ original script, his explanation for why the Vader vs Ben Kenobi fight was so lackluster and had so little force “tricks” was because Ben Kenobi was simply too strong for Vader’s force abilities to work on him. Obviously since that statement was made by George, whether it is canon can be debated. Also Obi wan should be number one. He has the high ground.
UK its funny bcuz the ones who fought sidious are 1 of the strongest jedi masters apart from yoga and mace, hell the jedi were confident if mace and no. 24 went to fight sidious alone they'd wreck him. Also palps got lucky to kill no. 23 and 24 as soon as he did when they were paralysed by the sith war roar.
I have mulitple issues with their debunking tho, legends Luke has accomplished more than nearly every jedi of the republic, he has been claimed by George Lucas to be the strongest force user to ever live, he has the perfect force genetics, ontop of decades of training to master his abilities. He is absolutley insane. Mace Windu was strong but he limited himself because he had too, if he went too far he would turn to the darkside which is why I think his placement is justified. Obi Wan completes his training after Revenge of the Sith, Yoda calls him the perfect jedi. Yoda mastered all aspects of the force. Palpatine was holding back on Mace in order to turn Anakin.
Great video! So my question is since Anakin is said to have the highest midicholorian count (even more than Yoda) would the midicholorian count be refering more to his potential rather than his power?
Well anytime when enraged potential became power anakin was always holding back but when enraged he could beat anyone like his fight with doku before obi wan went down doku was outclassing him after obi wan went down anakin got enraged and demolished him with little effort
Using Windu’s scaling with beating Sideous is somewhat unbalanced. Windu knows Vaapad, which allows the user to feed off of Dark side force users and amplify themselves. So to say hes more powerful is sort of an exaggeration. Its like if you had Windu vs Luke, Theres no way Windu would win. But if Luke was angry, then Windu would have a better chance at winning. That is the key reason he defeated Palpatine. If he didnt have that style of fighting then he would have gotten creampied no doubt in my mind.
Plo koon should be much higher he has the ability to use force lighting, not as powerful as sith lighting but it’s still an impressive ability as a jedi
Do you think Anakin on Mortis would be the highest tier version of Anakin? Given the fact he forced The Daughter and The Son to submit, both of which being Universal
Yoda’s force-abilities are far beyond Mace Windu. Windu was the master of using a lightsaber and Yoda was the master of using the force. In a duel where they only used the force like Yoda vs Sidious was for long stretches of the fight, then Windu would get crushed while Yoda was as powerful as Sidious
@@KeyIssues Perhaps in raw power. But you have to give Yoda an edge when it comes to his overall understanding of the force. Almost 900 years of training have to count for something. Yoda must have more aces in his sleve than Mace in an all out force-battle. Maybe Mace is an better warrior, maybe not. But then again ''wars not make one great''.
Yoda Never sensed there was a Sith, Palpatine, so near, he didn't see the future, the Order 66, he couldn't beat Count Dooku and Sidious. He wasn't a pilot, didn't used blasters guns, he barely walks, too old, he said Failed I have. If so powerful he is why exiled and didn't join the Rebellion.
I love Ahsoka’s force push. Like I feel like she’s mastered that specific skill. If there’s any video games coming out with her in it, she should have a force push ability
On the bright side, we get Monster Hunter. The international trailer for it was fun. Hope it does okay so it could move towards a better funded sequel. Looks like TOHO spent a lot of time and money on it too. Movie might just be a lot better than what the trailer shows, so I don’t expect it to fail despite the premise. At least the portal thing is canon since its in the MHW/Witcher DLC crossover.
Palpatine held back when fighting mace tho didnt he? He knew anakin would show up and to make him help him he layed down defeated even tho he really wasnt
One issue with the Yoda lower than Mace scaling is that the arena they fight in works way more to Sidious advantage that when he fought Mace. Sidious is a master of all forms of lightsaber combat, but is rusty, whereas Mace and Yoda tend to try and fight primarily with sabers. In the close quarters office, this works to Mace's advantage and lets him fight on his own terms, whereas in the senate chamber, Sidious is constantly able to make space and use his super strong force capabilities to attack Yoda from range, thus forcing him to expend a lot of his energy playing keep up. So it's not a 1-1 thing where you can use it to say Mace scales above Yoda, cause the situation is completely different
Shaak Ti put up a pretty damn good fight against Galen Marek, forcing him to rely on his superior force skills to beat her. Definitely above Jocasta Nu and Sifo Dyas. Ik its legends but it deserved a mention.
Y'all really gonna disrespect Shaak Ti like that huh? Shaak Ti was so proficient with her lightsaber that General Grievous, even wielding four sabers at once, refused to duel her one on one.
@@KeyIssues mace won because of his fighting style and its basically natural ability to counter the dark side by reinflicting it back at the dark side user
1. Rey (with the power of all jedi) 2. Luke (Grandmaster) 3. Yoda 4. Anakin (angered) 5. Dooku (jedi) 6. Windu 7. Anakin 8. Kenobi 7. Plo 8. Ben (redimed) 9. Lea (jedi) 10. Luke (jedi) 11. Ashoka (adoult) 12. Qui Gun Jin 13. Rey 14. Shaqu ti 15. Kit Fisto 16. Cin Dralek 17. Quinlan Vos 18. Ashoka (padawan)19. Kanan 20. Ezra ... Sidious (resurected) is right after Rey (with the power of all jedi), Sidious is right after Luke (grandmaster), Snoke is right after Yoda, Darth Vader (human) is right after Sonke and above Dart Vader (cyborg), Darth Vader (cyborg) is right after Darth Vader (humam) and above Anakin (angered), Dart Tyramus is right after Windu, Darth Maul is right after Kenobi, Greevous is right after Plo, Ventress is right after Quinlan Vos, Grand Inquisitor is right after Kanan.
Fun ride this was. Loved your comments on Mace. Though I’m confused by some of your comments during the video. Plo Koon had many feats in Clone Wars and in other canon. He is extremely powerful and intelligent and has special abilities no others possess on his level. He should be higher on the list. Kanan had many feats in Rebels, and was a chosen one (not THE chosen one of course) but is still perhaps where he should be on the list. Syfo Dyas had a special ability in foresight, more so than even Yoda. So special that his potential influence on other Jedi was feared. Kit Fisto easily wrecked Greivous…I may be wrong but I believe no one else has done that except maybe Dooku. I think he would done much better in the duel with Sidious, if the Jedi had any inkling of how powerful Sidious was. Fisto knew well how dangerous Greivous was and likely utilized his skills accordingly. I will forever wonder about that duel with Sidious. I’ve also wondered if Anakin was truly acting as a Jedi during his final duel with Dooku. He was channeling the dark side during that duel. Dooku even sort of acknowledged it. So was he a Jedi during that duel or simply an amped pseudo-Sith due to dark side use? Obi-Wan is definitely more “powerful” than Anakin, though not in potential. He beat Anakin in a straight up duel. A duel when Anakin’s power was amped by the dark side. He is a Sith at that point. A baby Sith but amped nonetheless. Doesn’t matter that Anakin was in a poor mental state, he lost. And what state of mind to we think Obi-Wan was in?
Yaddle in legends is no joke. Canon yaddle stepped down from the council, that’s why she isn’t seen, it’s also implied in FO that she survived Order 66.
To be fair, the argument can be made that Windu only defeated Palpatine because he was the only master of a combat form specifically focused on redirecting dark side powers, in an era where barely anyone had significant experience managing truly top tier dark side practitioners. So his abilities when put head to head with other light side users should be less impressive. Still a horrible fucking list tho
The "super conducting loop" aspect of Vapaad only existed in the non-canon RotS Novelization. Current explanations of Vapaad lacks that aspect, all it provides is a controlled dark side amp.
Screenrant is just humiliating theirselves I really think that Screenrant crew are just fake fans trying to be one with the real fans who can humiliate them with just one of their articles.
Obi-Wan is stated to be THE master of soresu by mace Windu, so i guess he must be a little impressive, if the most powerful lightsaber combatant acknowledged him for that..
>What about Dooku before leaving the Order? Probably bellow Ahsoka, Yoda, Luke, Windu, and Anakin; but above the rest like Kanan, Barris, Rey, Qui-Gon, and... dare I say, Obi-wan. >Also, unless I missed it, I can't help but notice that you guys forgot that Obi-wan beat Maul twice, and you didn't really consider Old Ben Kenobi (though he was still definitely too high on the list). >Also, what about pre-Dark Side Quinlan Vos?
Anakin in Legends is around Yoda and Mace and above Vader by a large margin and above Plo Koon by Dooku's scaling as he said he was above anyone with Djem So Edit: Mace is blatantly stated weaker than Yoda multiple times plus there is a mention in Canon where Sith were supercharged post order 66 in ROTS
In Legends Anakin is greater than Yoda or Mace post killing Dooku. Vader > Anakin/. Mace is actually stated to be equal to Yoda in canon, and would be stronger with Vapaad amping him.
Losing to Jango isn't terrible at all he murdered 5 Jedi at the same time while unarmed the dudes a super badass not to mention Windu only managed to kill him the way he did due to Jango not realizing his jetpack was fucked.
U cannot just judge Yoda by one fight and say mace windu is more powerful than him. I mean Yoda is a god when it comes to his knowledge in the force, he is just wise as hell.
I think another rank list but in legends would be cool. Every comment I see is like, “But what about this little fact??” Then you guys have to go explain that this is a cannon list and not legends and their entire argument is based off of something in legends.
Love this channel! Great job guys! However, Obi wan is a master of his defensive style. Which is why the council sent him to kill general grievous bc he was one of the few that can defend against grievous arms and attacks. And grievous is a coward and retreats but he was very dangerous in novels and cannon. He killed many Jedi’s and was not a easy fight. And Obi wan fighting style is the only thing that kept him alive with the fight with Anakin. He was the perfect counter to Anakin’s style and Obi wan was extremely weak to count dooku style. George also said that Obi was more powerful than Vader by new hope but it wasn’t the will of the force to strike Vader down.
This is mace windu recognizing Obi wan as the superior master of form soresu. “That is so like you, Master Kenobi. I am called a great swordsman because I invented a lethal style; but who is greater, the creator of a killing form-or the master of the classic form?”
I agree Obi was not the strongest of all time at least not during episode 3 but he’s definitely in the top 10 I feel like. He Probably sits right at number 10 to be honest 😂
And regarding Legends: Obi wan actually perfectly countered Dooku's killing strikes in the RotS novel, so he definitely wasn't weak to his style. He was just blatantly weaker in regards to Dooku's Force powers. Also if George said something that contradicts the actual material then his word is invalidated; and in the A New Hope Novelization, Vader is equal in speed to Obi and Obi can barely counter his saber swings.
Ok this list is bad, but have these two watched clone wars? Because multiple of the Jedi these guys are saying have no feats even tho they all have basically had at least 1 focus episode in clone wars. No offense like they clearly are just overlooking some of these Jedi.
@@thegoliath9310 I don't know about Rey but she is pretty powerful, but that's not the point. I was just saying that the list made no sense and had little research put into it...
@@Jack-gj3gf Rey is powerful but unskilled with a lightsaber, especially when compared to the Jedi from the Clone Wars like Ahsoka. Anakin was powerful with the Force, too, and Ahsoka still did well considering he was Vader. She's shown that she can handle two lightsaber wielders at a time with both the Inquisitors and in TCW when she was fighting Anakin and Obi-Wan in S3. Anakin and Obi-Wan at the time were only on defense because she was mind-controlled and they didn't want to hurt her, but they did keep them both occupied for an impressive amount of time considering she was much weaker then than she is now. Rey only uses the Force when she needs to, she doesn't use it too often during lightsaber fights. Ahsoka uses it quite often, usually to enhance her agility and durability. In a one v one, Ahsoka wins 8/10 against Rey, 9/10 against Kylo. (Rey is easy to overwhelm, and Ahsoka is quick and usually comes with two sabers. Kylo is easily distracted and is otherwise unimpressive when it comes to skills with a lightsaber.) It really isn't fair, tbh. Ahsoka got training for most of her young life, pretty much up until she was 17. Rey by the time of RoS has only been training for about a year, a little more. Because of this, most clone wars Jedi would KO Age of Resistance Jedi and Sith easily. They have more and better training for combat. With proper training, Rey could become a very fearsome warrior. But at her current state, Rey would be easily beaten by Ahsoka.
@@thegoliath9310 totally agree, the jedi from the clone wars in general are more skilled in combat because of the longer training, you have convinced me
@@Jack-gj3gf awesome. Rey vs Young Ahsoka would be more of an even fight and I would watch that. And although I despise Rey, don't let other fans gatekeep star wars, like whoever you want. G'day!
32:09 Isn't Mace's lightsaber style specifically designed for fighting dark side wielders? This wouldn't necessarily make him a better duelist than Yoda, just a better match against Sidious. Still very impressive though. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong
windu was using vaapad which is a direct counter to sidious as the strongest dark side user, also sidious was still tryna manipulate anakin so he was holding back, and yoda does disarm sidious he just realises he was wouldn’t be able to beat him outright and kinda gives up, sidious is arguably the most powerful force user of all time aside from people like abaloth and obviously......🙄rey
also obi wan was weaker than mace and yoda so he should be below them and anakin because he killed dooku he should have been sent to destroy grievous and maul
i'm watching you both talk about jocasta, and thinking.. do u even know what middling means? average! she also managed to deflect trooper blasterfire longer than ki adi mundi. so she's alright..
You guys are sleeping on obiwan a bit here, first off grevious loses most of his fights with him in clone wars, he either runs or get's a lot of help. Also in episode 3, Obi-wan only has problems because he drops his lightsaber, in a straight duel, he wins, as the first 30sec of their fight shows (losing 2 arms). Also he straight up beats maul multiple times, including forcing a tie in a 2vs1 in clonewars with savage helping. The count dooku vs anaken vs obiwan is a bit odd to scale, two main things, one is location and the other is stamina. Dooku is an old man, so fighting 2 vs 1 probably took its toll. Worth noting that Anaken does do fairly well vs dooku in clone wars aswell though, atleast when it's 1v1. Obiwan beat anaken mostly casue he has a more level head in a very dangerous arena, at least that's my reading of it. I don't think the conflicted nerf really holds much water, it's been shown that rage and the darkside is also a major increase (Luke in episode 6, arguably obiwan in episode 1). Even including a single statement from a guide can't be taken at facevalue when it directly contridicts something else also in the main cannon so it's tricky. Yoda vs Mace is tricky, Mace is better against darkside users than he is against non dark side users (is this Legends now?), also the arena in which he fought was much better for him. Sidious had a perfect settup in the senate building, also the end was basically a tie, since yoda was pretty much just unlucky. I still lean towards mace being better all around, but worth noting. Also yoda has far superior force feats than mace, can argue that that won't matter in a straight up duel but terrain matters a lot here.
@@CRISIS_COMICS I just don’t think I understand the way the powerscale works for example in the video you it says Kenobi should be below the likes of Kit Fisto. Yes Kit Fisto had a good display against Grivous but so did Kenobi in their final fight he literally disarmed him of all his lightsabers within seconds. Kenobi has also defeated Maul on many occasions. Who himself had a much better display agains Palpatine then Kit did. I know just because A beats B and B beats C doesn’t mean A beats C but I still think Kenobi has enough canon feats to be scaled above every Jedi in the order excluding Yoda Mace Luke Anakin with a possible argument for Ashoka
@@danielfish1127 He defeated an exhausted, weakened, out of his mind Maul, with prep by the way. He also got one shot by Grievous just before RotS in the canon deleted scene I mentioned, and was stated to "barely" defeat Grievous. Obi's below Fisto and Plo Koon.
Can you take into account that Yoda’s fight with Sidious was after order 66? We can clearly see that Yoda was physically affected by the loss of so many Jedi and I doubt that we can truly say that Yoda was anywhere near good condition when fighting him.
@@KeyIssues to what degree? Mace fought sidious before the purge even started. To be fair I do still believe that mace is stronger than Yoda but I don’t believe that it’s as cut and dry as “Mace beat sidious, Yoda didn’t”
Yoda did beat sidious in lightsaber combat and only lost because of his placement in the fight, sideous was launched back in a seat and yoda was launched back and no seat was there so he fell
Mace scales higher than Yoda depending on the opponent. Because Vaapaad uses an opponents dark side against them, when Mace is facing the strongest Dark Side user that has ever existed he gets exponentially stronger. But say if yoda and Mace were to fight yoda would come out on top.
The disrespect u guys show towards obi wan and yoda, I admit obi wan shouldn't be above mace but u guys act like beating maul as a padawan and beating him again, and again. Obi wan should at least be at 6, if u didn't know Obi wans power level in a new hope is actually the same power level as palpatine.....And now yoda if u forgot yoda was very old and I believe if he was younger he could've beaten palpatine and I think yoda beat him in a lightsaber duel in ROTS but lost in a force battle which has a little bit to do with his small stature...Yoda is the most Powerful not mace
I think obi wan should still be top 10 and is somewhat impressive, even if he “lost” to the duel with the Gevious he clearly made him go on the run and him using a blaster to outsmart him should still count as him being powerful in a fight, cuz outsmarting opponents is part of a fight. Also he easily beat maul in their last encounter
@@CRISIS_COMICS still tho it proves obi wan isn’t that great at duels but still can win fights. Also he dueled anakin and was able to win by outsmarting him and was able to keep up with actual ligjsayber fight
@@nylerv1949 He less so outsmarted him, and it was more so that Anakin was being a dumbass; there is a difference. Obi only appears as smart as he does against characters that he's battled a numerous amount of times and thus knows there ins and outs. Like Anakin who he trained with his entire career as a Jedi, and Maul whom he had battled for decades. However, having battled Grievous multiple times didn't afford him the same advantage, seeing as it is stated that he barely won in RotS.
I don’t get why obi wan is seen as less powerful than so many other Jedi. He doesn’t get impressive wins because he plays defense the whole fight. Anakin even says obi wan is as powerful as mace windu and as wise as master yoda.
Rest in peace Coleman Trebor
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@Key Issues Hey Garrick do you like the new canon, because for they fucked everything up for me Sith Lords that everyone favored like bane,reven, and mal and all other legends characters doesn’t matter anymore they have make way for less interesting and developed characters
@@nathanmontgomery1516 Garrick's only experienced canon. I'm more or less a fan of both.
@@CRISIS_COMICS oh personally I thought the newer characters were done poorly, anyway off topic I saw your raiden scaling video so in your opinion in reference to the death battle video who would win wolverine or raiden love your vids 😊
@@nathanmontgomery1516 I don't scale Marvel 616 but based on what people have told and what I know about Raiden, Raiden winning would be more likely.
Horrible list. Reminds me of CBR's list where they put Han Solo above Grievous, lol.
Han is cool, but General cough cough would slice him to bits
Weeaboo I agree screenrant and CBR's lists are terrible yours are way better by a longshot
General Grievous would murder Han so easily since Kylo Ren killed him
@@oscarbelmare_22 exactly
On bf2 han solo is prolly the best counter to grievous, not relevant just an observation
Has screen rant ever said anything remotely close to accurate or right?
Never once
I think ive seen maybe a couple of articles in the past, cant recall which ones but its a rare sight indeed
The only accurate things they do are the pitch meetings.
@@justaguy7230 I would say those ar funny more than accurate
@@justaguy7230 true true
About Yoda being number one, he is definitely more force attuned than Mace Windu. Also, the reason that Mace was able to win against Sidious is because of the form of lightsaber combat that he was proficient in. Mace used Vaa-paad, a form that he helped create, which is kind of a lightside form seven. Form Seven is the last, most powerful, most aggressive and hardest form of lightsaber combat, and it draws upon your bloodlust and love of fighting to power you up, kind of like Force Rage. Vaa-paad does the same thing but it draws from the rage of your opponent. On top of that it was forbidden to study for all Jedi, except a select few that the council deemed mentally stable enough to try and study the seventh form. So, when Mace goes up against Palpatine he is uniquely powered up because of how much the dark side consumes Sidious. This is also the reason that Mace has a purple saber, because having a purple saber indicates that you are a lightside being that uses the darkside for the greater good.
So, yes, whilst I agree that he should have been higher on the list(I personally think number two) Yoda still surpass him in general knowledge and skill.
This is also the reason that Obi-wan wins against Greivous and Anakin-ish, but looses against Dooku. Obi wan was THE master of Soresu of his time, which means that he is by far the best defensive dueler in the order. Soresu, or form three, is the defensive form, developed for combat against blasters, and also to fit the Jedi ideology more, as a relatively passive form primarily used for self defense. Obi-Wan dedicates himself to this form after seeing Qui-gon die because of his overuse of form four in a tight space, which is the acrobatic form and and also the form that Obi-Wan used at the time, being very popular amongst padawans, whom were younger and generally more energetic than their older masters.
Why he won against Grevious is because he could withstand his lightning fast attacks (18 strikes per second!) and slowly widdle him down in a marathon duel, making use of his surroundings. This is also (partially, Anakin wasn't really in a good headspace at the time) why he won against Anakin. Obi-Wan could Take Anakin's form five (The form of strength and counter attack) assault and wait Anakin out until he was tired, and Obi-Wan got an opening (see the high-ground for more information).
This is also why he lost against Dooku. Dooku used form two, Makashi, which was the dueling form. Makashi used precise strikes and energy-efficient movement to kind of breakdown defenses, so it was the perfect counter to Obi-Wans Soresu.
You sir are a legend, and deserve more likes. This comment is awesome
@@lukesanders8912 Thanks man, it was a real fun comment to make. I’m just happy that my weird niche knowledge of lightsaber combat came to use.
I really like this comment, but one thing is that the only reason Mace Windu had a purple lightsaber in the prequels is because Samuel L. Jackson asked George Lucas if he could have a purple lightsaber. Other than that, spot on!
@@kalebwright4054 Yeah, that is the real reason, bit they explained it later in legends to rationalize it.
@@eliashornwall8546 oh okay. I’ve just always heard the story that Samuel L. Jackson told. Thanks for the insight :)
oh boy here we go again
Here I go debunking again
And I'm here for it 😆
@@KeyIssues I think yaddle is very powerful . Although there are no feats for her she is not only part of the council and a master but she is part of yoda’s species which is known for being very powerful in the force
@@albaraa2072 On the channel
This is where the fun begins
it takes alot of willpower to watch these sometimes. the rankings are so bad it is genuinely painful
Key issues: states that’s its cannon that Anakin lost to Obi wan for his mental instability
Me: so his mental state was not on the high ground and Obi wan was
Yes
Obi-wan is easily the strongest as long as he has the high ground 😏
Obi-wan + high ground = unlimited power
Anakin is easily the strongest as long as Obi-wan doesn’t have the high ground 😏
Who wins? Obi-Wan with the high ground, or Batman with prep time? 🤔
@@alertedcoyote7892 that fight would destroy universe.
Holy carp this is such a funny meme / joke / gag hahaha lmfao holy fucking shit dude like this is like literally next level how did you even come up with this I've never heard a joke as original or as funny as this before like you were actually a god my guy You could seriously be a comic if you wanted to I am literally rolling on the ground right now coughing blood due to my uncontrollable fit of wheezing laughter this joke was so funny You have literally ascended beyond the heavens You have become God himself keep it up dude such a funny and original gag.
Kit Fisto has the most powerful smile
True
Unfortunately he focused on form 1 of jedi training (what jedi younglings do)
Meaning he was kinda useless in combat most of the time
@@Frozo-nt2ky Yeah but like
He got clapped by some 60 year old sith lord
Lmao
@@Frozo-nt2ky who was killed by the lamest death ever lol
I gotta say, you’re being a bit unfair to Obiwan. He’s the master of the defensive style of lightsaber combat. I agree he’s not the 4th most powerful Jedi ever in Canon but you’re doing him dirty with what you’re saying
Anakin didn’t have a clear mind but Obi wan did despite watching his pupil massacre a bunch of children, obi should be lower but top 10 easy
@@alexclark9348 I would say obi wan is easily 6th
You forgot that obi wan nearly deafeated savage oprees and maul Together he but they escaped
Opress
Technically Yoda did beat Sidious. At the beginning of their duel Sidious tried to run from Yoda, that just goes to show how afraid of Yoda he was. The duel between Yoda and Sidious starts off pretty evenly matched, but eventually somewhere down the line Sidious was losing drastically, because Yoda is the better duelist. Sidious decides to throw away his lightsaber and focus on his force abilities, where he technically has an edge. Yoda manages to keep up with Sidious and then this is where they meet with all of their strength. Yoda and Palpatine were both standing on the edges of a very small pod, Palpatine releases the full power of his force lightning at this point. As we've seen before it has the power to disintegrate others. Yoda is able to use tutaminis which is a light side ability, and he absorbs all the lightning. If you pay close attention to their facial expressions you can tell that Palpatine knew he lost against Yoda. While Yoda failed his mission to kill Palpatine, he was still able to beat the self proclaimed Emperor. Now onto Mace vs Palpatine, it's been confirmed that Palpatine was giving it his all. If he wasn't confident enough in his lightsaber skills he would've fallen back to his force abilities, like he did with Yoda. Palpatine went into the duel with Mace with full confidence that he was going to win, what he was not ready for was the power of Vaapad. Not only was Vaapad a lightsaber form but it was a direct counter to the darkside. In his duel with Palpatine, Mace was taking all of his power and throwing it right back. Mace is quite the powerhouse and in some cases is on par with Yoda, but without Vaapad Mace wouldn't have beaten Palpatine. All of this is really my opinion and if you read all this I would like to say thank you.
@SHAME that is an very good assessment. Always felt Yoda was a bit stronger. Mace would also not be able to use vapaad against Yoda because if am not mistaken does it only work on darkside users.
@@eliasbengtsson9315 Yes, vapaad does draw strength from the darkside, that's why when Grevious copied Vapaad it was useless to him since he only had the physical aspect
all of this is contradicted by the fact that Yoda ran away in the end
@@adityabhalekar3506 not really because Yoda still won the fight, he just failed his mission. Sure he could've went a few rounds in force abilities with Sidious, but that would've ended up in more stalemates and lowered his chances of escape with the clones coming.
I love your analysis
Before I watch the end let me guess: Rey is going to rank higher than Luke Vader and Kylo
almost
HAPPY TO BE ALLOWED OUT OF THE SHED!!!
“Obi-Wan only beat Anakin because he was in emotional turmoil”
“Mace Windu beat Sidious, Yoda did not”
Couldn’t you argue that Yoda was in emotional turmoil because of order 66?
In fact... aren’t MOST people who are fighting to the DEATH probably going to experience some sort of “emotional turmoil”?
I agree with a lot of your reasoning in most of this video, but that’s the one really shaky part.
While Yoda was effected by Order 66, it did not bring down his skill at all, he failed to kill Palpatine but he still won the fight
I always figured Mace also was massively amped against Sidious by using Vaapad. While he is easily top 5 Jedi without question, I think his form is what won that fight.
Yoda did beat sidious. He disarmed him and the only reason he "lost" was where he was placed in the fight the moment sidious used lightning. If you swapped yodas and sideous position yoda would fall on the seat and sideous would fall 100 feet down
@@doczoid- he was. His style user gets a boost tyen fighting a negatively aggressive fighter. Its why power scaling him doesn't work. His power level changes depending on who he fights
The amount of disrespect ScreenRant showed Ahsoka...
Anakin wasn't just emotionally compromised and also, Obi-Wan used his knowledge of his student against himself.
He knows how impatient Anakin can be, and he knows his combat style.
One other important thing, as stated in the RotS novelisation, Obi-Wan is THE Master of Soresu, which makes his lightsaber defense practically impenetrable. (But sadly his Force powers are not that great, hence why he was ragdolled so easily by Dooku.)
The combination of all of that allowed him to cut down and essentially defeat Anakin.
To finish, it's in line with what has been said in the video: Obi-Wan is weaker than Anakin, even though he beat him on Mustafar.
Cheers from France! 🍻
Shakk Ti also died/lost to General Grievous, so whoever beat Grievous we can assume Shakk Ti is weaker.
Thats Legends where GG is much more powerful. We can even give ObiWan a solid feat of beating him here, and ObiWan is strongly praised in the novel for this. GG also goes toe to toe with WIndu in the books as well, its not something to just ignore how powerful GG was in legends
@@avatarmufasa3628 well in clone wars season 7 it was mentioned she died from grievous so I think it’s canon
@@giancarlofregoso8 We do not know how she died. For example was she ambushed by GG and multiple magnaguards?
So yes i think your assumption is a hasty one
Shakk Ti was killed about three different times lol all deleted scenes, she was all kinda useless lol
@@taiyo9581 Eh, i would say her feat in he animated series was very impressive (2003 series btw), its not canon but i does tell us quite a lot of how some percieved her
Idk why you're saying Ahsoka scales above/around Anakin? To my knowledge her at her best is her duel with Vader who scales below Anakin because he loses force power and speed when he gets mutilated by Obi Wan.
"His injuries had deformed his body, left it broken, but they'd perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force." -Star Wars Lords of the Sith (2016)
Key Issues Yes, but Vader is still significantly weaker, as he is only like 60% or Palpatine while Anakin was closer to bein as powerful as Palpatine.
@@KeyIssues Vader is nerves by his suit which was designed by palatine to weaken him as punishment for his failure on mustafar
I agree with this statement
How does this mean Ahsoka is more powerful than Anakin?
Wasn’t Sasee Tin one of the best pilot it’s in the order, and was one of the most skilled. Also Yaddle was able to use the force to absorb anything, and she died absorbing the energy of a doomsday device capable of destroying a planet.
Frozo 1290 Welll Disney doesn’t exactly give us new material so I am going to use legends.
Frozo 1290 Sasee Tinn was also one of the best duelists.
Frozo 1290 No Sasee Tinn is one of the best duelists, that is why he is in Mace Windus task force, those 4 are some of the best Jedi. Also if there isn’t a canon explanation for Yaddle, than we need to use legends, also Yaddle is still powerful as she is talked about in Canon and was said to be strong.
Legends was canon, until Disney bought them, which doesn't change anything imo. Also, the majority of the films are fucking garbage compared to the books.
Here’s an argument for obi wan (see to it how you will), in George Lucas’ original script, his explanation for why the Vader vs Ben Kenobi fight was so lackluster and had so little force “tricks” was because Ben Kenobi was simply too strong for Vader’s force abilities to work on him. Obviously since that statement was made by George, whether it is canon can be debated. Also Obi wan should be number one. He has the high ground.
The Coleman Trebor downplay :C
Time to debunk the debunk!
Shit, missed you guys, been a while. Welcome back!
UK its funny bcuz the ones who fought sidious are 1 of the strongest jedi masters apart from yoga and mace, hell the jedi were confident if mace and no. 24 went to fight sidious alone they'd wreck him. Also palps got lucky to kill no. 23 and 24 as soon as he did when they were paralysed by the sith war roar.
Ah yes, master yoga. Master of the downward dog style, and a master with force mind control, activated by Hmmmmmmmmmmmming really hard.
25: Coleman Trebor
24: Jocasta Nu
23: Agen Kolar
22: Yaddle
21: Saesee Tinn
20: Ayla Secura
19: Depa Billaba
18: Kannan Jarras
17: Shakk Ti
16: Ben Solo
15: Sifo Dyas
14: Luminara Undull
13: Ki - Adi Mundi
12: Barris Offee
11: Ezra Bridger
10: Qui Gon Jinn
9: Rey Palpatine
8: Kit Fisto
7: Obi Wan Kenobi
6: Plo Koon
5: Ashoka Tano
4: Anakin Skywalker
3: Mace Windu
2: Yoda
1: Luke Skywalker
Good list, I have Ashoka above Anakin personally(post ih not evil)
I have mulitple issues with their debunking tho, legends Luke has accomplished more than nearly every jedi of the republic, he has been claimed by George Lucas to be the strongest force user to ever live, he has the perfect force genetics, ontop of decades of training to master his abilities. He is absolutley insane. Mace Windu was strong but he limited himself because he had too, if he went too far he would turn to the darkside which is why I think his placement is justified. Obi Wan completes his training after Revenge of the Sith, Yoda calls him the perfect jedi. Yoda mastered all aspects of the force. Palpatine was holding back on Mace in order to turn Anakin.
Great video! So my question is since Anakin is said to have the highest midicholorian count (even more than Yoda) would the midicholorian count be refering more to his potential rather than his power?
Most likely potential
@@CRISIS_COMICS Thanks!
Well anytime when enraged potential became power anakin was always holding back but when enraged he could beat anyone like his fight with doku before obi wan went down doku was outclassing him after obi wan went down anakin got enraged and demolished him with little effort
Using Windu’s scaling with beating Sideous is somewhat unbalanced. Windu knows Vaapad, which allows the user to feed off of Dark side force users and amplify themselves. So to say hes more powerful is sort of an exaggeration. Its like if you had Windu vs Luke, Theres no way Windu would win. But if Luke was angry, then Windu would have a better chance at winning. That is the key reason he defeated Palpatine. If he didnt have that style of fighting then he would have gotten creampied no doubt in my mind.
why would he just lose?
Screen Rant again with the inaccuracies when will they learn
Plo koon should be much higher he has the ability to use force lighting, not as powerful as sith lighting but it’s still an impressive ability as a jedi
Not in canon
@@KeyIssues damn that sucks one of my favorite things that makes plo koon awesome
@@giancarlofregoso8 isn't light side force lightning called Force Judgement?
@@thegoliath9310 Yep.
@@thegoliath9310 in legends
Do you think Anakin on Mortis would be the highest tier version of Anakin? Given the fact he forced The Daughter and The Son to submit, both of which being Universal
6:56 *GreyJedi91 has entered the chat*
No seriously, watch Grey Jedi's video about Aayla. There's a case to be made for her character.
Could you link it?
Yoda’s force-abilities are far beyond Mace Windu. Windu was the master of using a lightsaber and Yoda was the master of using the force. In a duel where they only used the force like Yoda vs Sidious was for long stretches of the fight, then Windu would get crushed while Yoda was as powerful as Sidious
They're literally stated to be equal
@@KeyIssues Perhaps in raw power. But you have to give Yoda an edge when it comes to his overall understanding of the force. Almost 900 years of training have to count for something. Yoda must have more aces in his sleve than Mace in an all out force-battle.
Maybe Mace is an better warrior, maybe not. But then again ''wars not make one great''.
Will you ever do part 2 to that Jedi and Sith ranking?
I love theses videos
You all are really Disrespectful towards grand Master Yoda 😂I think he deserves that number 1
Yoda Never sensed there was a Sith, Palpatine, so near, he didn't see the future, the Order 66, he couldn't beat Count Dooku and Sidious. He wasn't a pilot, didn't used blasters guns, he barely walks, too old, he said Failed I have. If so powerful he is why exiled and didn't join the Rebellion.
I love Ahsoka’s force push. Like I feel like she’s mastered that specific skill. If there’s any video games coming out with her in it, she should have a force push ability
On the bright side, we get Monster Hunter. The international trailer for it was fun. Hope it does okay so it could move towards a better funded sequel. Looks like TOHO spent a lot of time and money on it too. Movie might just be a lot better than what the trailer shows, so I don’t expect it to fail despite the premise. At least the portal thing is canon since its in the MHW/Witcher DLC crossover.
Hi there, just curious: if you were to add Matt reeves’ Batman to you suit ranking list, what place would he be?
Palpatine held back when fighting mace tho didnt he? He knew anakin would show up and to make him help him he layed down defeated even tho he really wasnt
Can't prove it, there are multiple statements stating that Sidious would have died if Anakin hadn't appeared.
Lucas said Mace Windu won fair and square
One issue with the Yoda lower than Mace scaling is that the arena they fight in works way more to Sidious advantage that when he fought Mace. Sidious is a master of all forms of lightsaber combat, but is rusty, whereas Mace and Yoda tend to try and fight primarily with sabers. In the close quarters office, this works to Mace's advantage and lets him fight on his own terms, whereas in the senate chamber, Sidious is constantly able to make space and use his super strong force capabilities to attack Yoda from range, thus forcing him to expend a lot of his energy playing keep up. So it's not a 1-1 thing where you can use it to say Mace scales above Yoda, cause the situation is completely different
Shaak Ti put up a pretty damn good fight against Galen Marek, forcing him to rely on his superior force skills to beat her. Definitely above Jocasta Nu and Sifo Dyas. Ik its legends but it deserved a mention.
It doesn't deserve a mention, that's like saying we should bring up comic feats when scaling the MCU.
Y'all really gonna disrespect Shaak Ti like that huh? Shaak Ti was so proficient with her lightsaber that General Grievous, even wielding four sabers at once, refused to duel her one on one.
That's Legends, this is a canon list.
I know y'all love windu but chill on Yoda did he not disarm sidious of his lightsaber in their duel?
Yoda is the better duelist, Mace is better overall.
@@KeyIssues I could see that especially with Yoda tailing to the end of his life yeah
@@KeyIssues mace won because of his fighting style and its basically natural ability to counter the dark side by reinflicting it back at the dark side user
@@KeyIssues You are comparing prime Mace, vs geriatric Yoda? wtf.
@@dtho6231 YEAH AND WTF YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT
1. Rey (with the power of all jedi) 2. Luke (Grandmaster) 3. Yoda 4. Anakin (angered) 5. Dooku (jedi) 6. Windu 7. Anakin 8. Kenobi 7. Plo 8. Ben (redimed) 9. Lea (jedi) 10. Luke (jedi) 11. Ashoka (adoult) 12. Qui Gun Jin 13. Rey 14. Shaqu ti 15. Kit Fisto 16. Cin Dralek 17. Quinlan Vos 18. Ashoka (padawan)19. Kanan 20. Ezra ... Sidious (resurected) is right after Rey (with the power of all jedi), Sidious is right after Luke (grandmaster), Snoke is right after Yoda, Darth Vader (human) is right after Sonke and above Dart Vader (cyborg), Darth Vader (cyborg) is right after Darth Vader (humam) and above Anakin (angered), Dart Tyramus is right after Windu, Darth Maul is right after Kenobi, Greevous is right after Plo, Ventress is right after Quinlan Vos, Grand Inquisitor is right after Kanan.
Fun ride this was. Loved your comments on Mace. Though I’m confused by some of your comments during the video. Plo Koon had many feats in Clone Wars and in other canon. He is extremely powerful and intelligent and has special abilities no others possess on his level. He should be higher on the list. Kanan had many feats in Rebels, and was a chosen one (not THE chosen one of course) but is still perhaps where he should be on the list. Syfo Dyas had a special ability in foresight, more so than even Yoda. So special that his potential influence on other Jedi was feared. Kit Fisto easily wrecked Greivous…I may be wrong but I believe no one else has done that except maybe Dooku. I think he would done much better in the duel with Sidious, if the Jedi had any inkling of how powerful Sidious was. Fisto knew well how dangerous Greivous was and likely utilized his skills accordingly. I will forever wonder about that duel with Sidious. I’ve also wondered if Anakin was truly acting as a Jedi during his final duel with Dooku. He was channeling the dark side during that duel. Dooku even sort of acknowledged it. So was he a Jedi during that duel or simply an amped pseudo-Sith due to dark side use? Obi-Wan is definitely more “powerful” than Anakin, though not in potential. He beat Anakin in a straight up duel. A duel when Anakin’s power was amped by the dark side. He is a Sith at that point. A baby Sith but amped nonetheless. Doesn’t matter that Anakin was in a poor mental state, he lost. And what state of mind to we think Obi-Wan was in?
This is gonna grind my gears I can feel it.
Yaddle in legends is no joke. Canon yaddle stepped down from the council, that’s why she isn’t seen, it’s also implied in FO that she survived Order 66.
To be fair, the argument can be made that Windu only defeated Palpatine because he was the only master of a combat form specifically focused on redirecting dark side powers, in an era where barely anyone had significant experience managing truly top tier dark side practitioners. So his abilities when put head to head with other light side users should be less impressive. Still a horrible fucking list tho
Vaapad does not work that way in canon.
The "super conducting loop" aspect of Vapaad only existed in the non-canon RotS Novelization. Current explanations of Vapaad lacks that aspect, all it provides is a controlled dark side amp.
@@KeyIssues Was not aware that Vapaad"s functionality had been significantly retconned, sorry
No big deal. I explain it in my Mace Windu video if you're interested.
Jocasta nu fought vader in the comics and did pretty well so I think she needs a lil more respect in terms of power
She did not do well. She lost to the Grand Inquisitor as well.
I mean, she lost to a character where early padawan ahsoka beat convincingly. BH in early clone wars where Ahsoka works in the library
Also I think while Kenobi doesn’t deserve to be that high, his battle between maul was very significant.
Screenrant is just humiliating theirselves
I really think that Screenrant crew are just fake fans trying to be one with the real fans who can humiliate them with just one of their articles.
Obi-Wan is stated to be THE master of soresu by mace Windu, so i guess he must be a little impressive, if the most powerful lightsaber combatant acknowledged him for that..
Not canon
In legends he did that. This is a canon ranking.
@@KeyIssues oh ok
Also I love these kinds of videos
>What about Dooku before leaving the Order? Probably bellow Ahsoka, Yoda, Luke, Windu, and Anakin; but above the rest like Kanan, Barris, Rey, Qui-Gon, and... dare I say, Obi-wan.
>Also, unless I missed it, I can't help but notice that you guys forgot that Obi-wan beat Maul twice, and you didn't really consider Old Ben Kenobi (though he was still definitely too high on the list).
>Also, what about pre-Dark Side Quinlan Vos?
Anakin in Legends is around Yoda and Mace and above Vader by a large margin and above Plo Koon by Dooku's scaling as he said he was above anyone with Djem So
Edit: Mace is blatantly stated weaker than Yoda multiple times plus there is a mention in Canon where Sith were supercharged post order 66 in ROTS
In Legends Anakin is greater than Yoda or Mace post killing Dooku. Vader > Anakin/. Mace is actually stated to be equal to Yoda in canon, and would be stronger with Vapaad amping him.
The battle of nerds. No one is safe, spreadsheets being generated furiously. Mechanical Key switches shattering. Pee bottles everywhere.
I think in terms of Jedi from the sidelines in the prequels kit fistos placement is the most accurate. He deserves at least some recognition
Mace would kill Rey with Shatterpoint.
A youngling has better lightsaber training than her.
Yaddle is Yoda, as far as we have seen in Canon, Yodas are strong. She should have been tied with Colman Trebor
Yaddle is part of the same race she isnt yoda herself
Losing to Jango isn't terrible at all he murdered 5 Jedi at the same time while unarmed the dudes a super badass not to mention Windu only managed to kill him the way he did due to Jango not realizing his jetpack was fucked.
That's Legends
@@CRISIS_COMICS I know but there is practically nothing about anyone save the main characters in the new canon.
@@Mikael22-18 I mean the scaling was provided with Mace >>> Jango~Obi >>> Kolar so...
I miss legends stuff especially general grievous where he could solo like several jedi but now they made him lose to gungans and Padawans
The Clone Wars was Legends before it was made canon. He lost to Gungans in Legends
@@KeyIssues I thought the newer clone wars was canon? Because that fight between grievous and the gungans was sometime during season 4
@@torrentarrow9097 It's both canon and legends
@@KeyIssues Grievous also relies heavily on breaking the Jedi's spirits before confronting them in Legends.
U cannot just judge Yoda by one fight and say mace windu is more powerful than him. I mean Yoda is a god when it comes to his knowledge in the force, he is just wise as hell.
I think another rank list but in legends would be cool. Every comment I see is like, “But what about this little fact??” Then you guys have to go explain that this is a cannon list and not legends and their entire argument is based off of something in legends.
Love this channel! Great job guys! However, Obi wan is a master of his defensive style. Which is why the council sent him to kill general grievous bc he was one of the few that can defend against grievous arms and attacks. And grievous is a coward and retreats but he was very dangerous in novels and cannon. He killed many Jedi’s and was not a easy fight. And Obi wan fighting style is the only thing that kept him alive with the fight with Anakin. He was the perfect counter to Anakin’s style and Obi wan was extremely weak to count dooku style. George also said that Obi was more powerful than Vader by new hope but it wasn’t the will of the force to strike Vader down.
Here’s the link with George Lucas saying that Obi was more powerful than Vader.
This is mace windu recognizing Obi wan as the superior master of form soresu.
“That is so like you, Master Kenobi. I am called a great swordsman because I invented a lethal style; but who is greater, the creator of a killing form-or the master of the classic form?”
I agree Obi was not the strongest of all time at least not during episode 3 but he’s definitely in the top 10 I feel like. He Probably sits right at number 10 to be honest 😂
@@Cookiepuss2289 Most everything you posted was Legends, and George sold Star Wars and had had his statements retconned by the current canon.
And regarding Legends: Obi wan actually perfectly countered Dooku's killing strikes in the RotS novel, so he definitely wasn't weak to his style. He was just blatantly weaker in regards to Dooku's Force powers. Also if George said something that contradicts the actual material then his word is invalidated; and in the A New Hope Novelization, Vader is equal in speed to Obi and Obi can barely counter his saber swings.
Hahahahaha I’ve been waiting for another of these, fucking screen rant man
Not enough attention has been focused on them typing out “See Threepio.”
Does anybody know what Star Wars comics that they used for Anakin portion on this video?
Death Vader 2017 by Charles Soule
Ok this list is bad, but have these two watched clone wars? Because multiple of the Jedi these guys are saying have no feats even tho they all have basically had at least 1 focus episode in clone wars. No offense like they clearly are just overlooking some of these Jedi.
1 episode each where they don't do anything impressive
Ahsoka, Anakin and Kylo's positions are embarrassing
Ahsoka would clap Kylo easily. Not even a competition. She would toy with him. She would clap Rey and Kylo in a 2v1 in less than 5 minutes.
@@thegoliath9310 I don't know about Rey but she is pretty powerful, but that's not the point. I was just saying that the list made no sense and had little research put into it...
@@Jack-gj3gf Rey is powerful but unskilled with a lightsaber, especially when compared to the Jedi from the Clone Wars like Ahsoka. Anakin was powerful with the Force, too, and Ahsoka still did well considering he was Vader. She's shown that she can handle two lightsaber wielders at a time with both the Inquisitors and in TCW when she was fighting Anakin and Obi-Wan in S3. Anakin and Obi-Wan at the time were only on defense because she was mind-controlled and they didn't want to hurt her, but they did keep them both occupied for an impressive amount of time considering she was much weaker then than she is now.
Rey only uses the Force when she needs to, she doesn't use it too often during lightsaber fights. Ahsoka uses it quite often, usually to enhance her agility and durability.
In a one v one, Ahsoka wins 8/10 against Rey, 9/10 against Kylo. (Rey is easy to overwhelm, and Ahsoka is quick and usually comes with two sabers. Kylo is easily distracted and is otherwise unimpressive when it comes to skills with a lightsaber.)
It really isn't fair, tbh. Ahsoka got training for most of her young life, pretty much up until she was 17. Rey by the time of RoS has only been training for about a year, a little more. Because of this, most clone wars Jedi would KO Age of Resistance Jedi and Sith easily. They have more and better training for combat. With proper training, Rey could become a very fearsome warrior. But at her current state, Rey would be easily beaten by Ahsoka.
@@thegoliath9310 totally agree, the jedi from the clone wars in general are more skilled in combat because of the longer training, you have convinced me
@@Jack-gj3gf awesome. Rey vs Young Ahsoka would be more of an even fight and I would watch that. And although I despise Rey, don't let other fans gatekeep star wars, like whoever you want. G'day!
Bro you forget jar jar Binks he is a secret Jedi
at least screenrant is sticking to canon and not shitting on legends
Luke is #1. There is no question about it.
32:09 Isn't Mace's lightsaber style specifically designed for fighting dark side wielders? This wouldn't necessarily make him a better duelist than Yoda, just a better match against Sidious. Still very impressive though. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong
Vapaad only works like that in Legends, this is a canon list.
@@CRISIS_COMICS Yeah, I watched Key Issues Mace video after I made this comment, where they explained the difference
They deadass put Rey above Anakin
windu was using vaapad which is a direct counter to sidious as the strongest dark side user, also sidious was still tryna manipulate anakin so he was holding back, and yoda does disarm sidious he just realises he was wouldn’t be able to beat him outright and kinda gives up, sidious is arguably the most powerful force user of all time aside from people like abaloth and obviously......🙄rey
also obi wan was weaker than mace and yoda so he should be below them and anakin because he killed dooku he should have been sent to destroy grievous and maul
i'm watching you both talk about jocasta, and thinking.. do u even know what middling means? average! she also managed to deflect trooper blasterfire longer than ki adi mundi. so she's alright..
You guys are sleeping on obiwan a bit here, first off grevious loses most of his fights with him in clone wars, he either runs or get's a lot of help. Also in episode 3, Obi-wan only has problems because he drops his lightsaber, in a straight duel, he wins, as the first 30sec of their fight shows (losing 2 arms).
Also he straight up beats maul multiple times, including forcing a tie in a 2vs1 in clonewars with savage helping.
The count dooku vs anaken vs obiwan is a bit odd to scale, two main things, one is location and the other is stamina. Dooku is an old man, so fighting 2 vs 1 probably took its toll. Worth noting that Anaken does do fairly well vs dooku in clone wars aswell though, atleast when it's 1v1. Obiwan beat anaken mostly casue he has a more level head in a very dangerous arena, at least that's my reading of it. I don't think the conflicted nerf really holds much water, it's been shown that rage and the darkside is also a major increase (Luke in episode 6, arguably obiwan in episode 1). Even including a single statement from a guide can't be taken at facevalue when it directly contridicts something else also in the main cannon so it's tricky.
Yoda vs Mace is tricky, Mace is better against darkside users than he is against non dark side users (is this Legends now?), also the arena in which he fought was much better for him. Sidious had a perfect settup in the senate building, also the end was basically a tie, since yoda was pretty much just unlucky. I still lean towards mace being better all around, but worth noting. Also yoda has far superior force feats than mace, can argue that that won't matter in a straight up duel but terrain matters a lot here.
I don’t understand your Kenobi analysis one bit he is only spot to high the only 4 Jedi on this list that can beat him are Yoda, Luke, Mace, Anakin
And he's above Mace and Anakin...
@@CRISIS_COMICS Yh I understand that but there talking about him like he should be in the middle of the pack
@@danielfish1127 All we said is he's below Anakin and Mace because of his poor performances against Dooku and Grievous
@@CRISIS_COMICS I just don’t think I understand the way the powerscale works for example in the video you it says Kenobi should be below the likes of Kit Fisto. Yes Kit Fisto had a good display against Grivous but so did Kenobi in their final fight he literally disarmed him of all his lightsabers within seconds. Kenobi has also defeated Maul on many occasions. Who himself had a much better display agains Palpatine then Kit did. I know just because A beats B and B beats C doesn’t mean A beats C but I still think Kenobi has enough canon feats to be scaled above every Jedi in the order excluding Yoda Mace Luke Anakin with a possible argument for Ashoka
@@danielfish1127 He defeated an exhausted, weakened, out of his mind Maul, with prep by the way. He also got one shot by Grievous just before RotS in the canon deleted scene I mentioned, and was stated to "barely" defeat Grievous. Obi's below Fisto and Plo Koon.
Dont hate on ma boi Qui Gon
With a list like this it wouldn't supried me if a force sensitive ewok was number one
26:46 that feat so crazy
i love ths statement obi-wan is not htat high even though he has the highground
Can you take into account that Yoda’s fight with Sidious was after order 66? We can clearly see that Yoda was physically affected by the loss of so many Jedi and I doubt that we can truly say that Yoda was anywhere near good condition when fighting him.
So was Mace
@@KeyIssues to what degree? Mace fought sidious before the purge even started. To be fair I do still believe that mace is stronger than Yoda but I don’t believe that it’s as cut and dry as “Mace beat sidious, Yoda didn’t”
Shak ti actually fought Vader and survived if I’m not mistaken.
Legends only, and debatably canon even in Legends.
Yoda did beat sidious in lightsaber combat and only lost because of his placement in the fight, sideous was launched back in a seat and yoda was launched back and no seat was there so he fell
Waiting for kit fistos ranking to decide how I judge this
Mace scales higher than Yoda depending on the opponent. Because Vaapaad uses an opponents dark side against them, when Mace is facing the strongest Dark Side user that has ever existed he gets exponentially stronger. But say if yoda and Mace were to fight yoda would come out on top.
Also, Yoda was already getting near the end of life by the time of ROTS. Prime Yoda would wipe the floor with Windu
Ki Adi Mundi has 6 wives he should be number 1
I can't tell if this is before or after ahsoka says she can't train grogu but obviously luke can. I think the top 3 should be 1. mace 2. yoda 3. luke
When is part two of your ranking coming?
When we find out what Obama's first name is
It’s not. I’m making individual videos for each character instead which will be much more in depth. Check out our Mace Windu video.
@@KeyIssues okay
The disrespect u guys show towards obi wan and yoda, I admit obi wan shouldn't be above mace but u guys act like beating maul as a padawan and beating him again, and again. Obi wan should at least be at 6, if u didn't know Obi wans power level in a new hope is actually the same power level as palpatine.....And now yoda if u forgot yoda was very old and I believe if he was younger he could've beaten palpatine and I think yoda beat him in a lightsaber duel in ROTS but lost in a force battle which has a little bit to do with his small stature...Yoda is the most Powerful not mace
Can you please do a how powerful is metro man from mega mind🙏🙏🙏
in comparison to who
You have no idea how relieved I was that Rey wasn’t number 1. She is still way too far up and the list is still ass
I read the list and had an aneurysm trying to understand the reasoning
You should both re rank them and compare
I think obi wan should still be top 10 and is somewhat impressive, even if he “lost” to the duel with the Gevious he clearly made him go on the run and him using a blaster to outsmart him should still count as him being powerful in a fight, cuz outsmarting opponents is part of a fight. Also he easily beat maul in their last encounter
Grievous sucks tho, so having a contentious duel with him is definitely an anti-feat
@@CRISIS_COMICS still tho it proves obi wan isn’t that great at duels but still can win fights. Also he dueled anakin and was able to win by outsmarting him and was able to keep up with actual ligjsayber fight
@@nylerv1949 He less so outsmarted him, and it was more so that Anakin was being a dumbass; there is a difference. Obi only appears as smart as he does against characters that he's battled a numerous amount of times and thus knows there ins and outs. Like Anakin who he trained with his entire career as a Jedi, and Maul whom he had battled for decades. However, having battled Grievous multiple times didn't afford him the same advantage, seeing as it is stated that he barely won in RotS.
I don’t get why obi wan is seen as less powerful than so many other Jedi. He doesn’t get impressive wins because he plays defense the whole fight. Anakin even says obi wan is as powerful as mace windu and as wise as master yoda.
The tartakovsky cartoon is canon I'll fight people in the street.
So is everything in the Stover Ep III novelization