Toolmakers Vice Build Part 3 - Grinding and Finishing
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2024
- Whilst I got good results from this set up, I strongly recommend against doing this machining process on a mill.
G'day everyone,
welcome back to part 3 of making a toolmaker vice for the milling machine. in the previous video I case hardened and tempered it to 55-60 HRC. in this video I intend to grind it down to final dimension and test it.
Without access to a surface grinder, I decided to use a grinding stone mounted in the mill to grind the part. This was not an easy, nor pleasant process which took a lot of trial and error to get right. whilst I do not recommend this method, I was able to get it to work, with hopefully minimal long term consequences to the mill.
cheers - Наука та технологія
G'day everyone, welcome to the final chapter of the toolmakers vice build. I hope you enjoyed the series as much as I did. I also hope to make it clear that you should avoid doing what I did in this video. Whilst I got somewhat decent results, mills are not surface grinders. Cheers :)
Damn sexy. For real great video. I am not easy to please but I don't have any real complaint. I watch about 1000 videos a day and can honestly say I haven't said this in over a year. Keep up the great work, Ty for not adding music or wasting our time with a intro explaining what the video will cover.
Joe Pie did a video on grinding in a milling machine that has a few pointers if you have to do this again.
ua-cam.com/video/yu02RLpq_K0/v-deo.html
@@MichaelMantion I agree. It makes it much more enjoyable and relaxing to watch when its not "over edited". Just show the work and talk over it. Great videos! Currently I think my second or third favorite channel after Abom79 and Blondihacks
Although, if it is good enough for Joe Pie.. 😉
Well built! I have such a screwless toolmaker's vise and they are great, except for one point: tightening with a standard hexagon socket bolt and a simple nut with shaft often proves to be irritating in practice. I made a solution for it, which works great. See my video about this, and I hope it will help you to work even more pleasantly with your vise.
See: ua-cam.com/video/f8scmq6VfFw/v-deo.html
Yes, Joe Pie made a video about grinding on a mill, but he didn't do real surface grinding. That proves to be a pita on a mill. It can be done however, with absolutely minimaal d.o.c.
I used a simple 4 wall chip shield to protect the bed and way's against that *&^@!! that a grinder produces.
See: ua-cam.com/video/SSwL3Njugwk/v-deo.html
Dude! That turned out great! I’m seriously impressed with the tolerances you were able to hold across such a large part without access to an SG. That vice will serve you well!
Very high praise to come from someone who needs everything they do to have AT LEAST 3 or 4 zero’s in front of it.
warms my heart to see you here!
Given the equipment you had, this was an excellent build!
That's exactly how I see it too! 👍
Greetings from Dresden! 😎
Congratulations!! The bottom line here is YOU did everything the best way you could and followed through no matter how tedious the operation! The best part being the results speak for themselves!
Looks like a win win for home shop use.
Thanks for sharing,
Cheers
Project idea. Make your own bench top surface grinder? I’ve enjoyed all of your videos and keep wanting more. Thank you for sharing.
Really impressive project, congratulations on the new vise.
Fantastic series. Thanks for sharing all you have learned. This was quite the project.
You did a great job on this. I appreciate your using the equipment on hand to get the job done. I have ground a few tools on my mill and they came out great. Great video!
My new fav channel. Level of craftsmanship and video production is just superb! Can’t wait to see what’s next
Nicely done. Your explanations are very good and the recap of your experiences during the project and the positive and negatives is excellent. It’s important for viewers to understand that it’s not always easy or fast to make stuff and to have realistic expectations.
Your approach to fabrication to work with what you have is great to see. I will be making one soon for my surface grinder using your input as my guide. Tks. Gilles
A great finished product and a pleasure to watch. You should be proud of that one !
fantastic project , carried out very well congratulations.
Glad you didn’t send away to get surface ground. Seeing you machine complex things with a reasonably simple workshop and what you have on hand is one of the things I love your channel for.
Man this is a big project for a home shop. Kudos to you. Beautiful work.
Well done! I'm super hooked on your build videos recently.
Great series and very impressive results 👍😎👍
I've enjoyed this series very much. I'm amazed you got the results you did. Should be proud at what you accomplished with what you had to work with.
Thankyou, glad you enjoyed it
Thank you so much for these video's! I started looking because I thought maybe this is a way for me to create a nice small milling vise for my much smaller CNC mill. I am so glad I looked at your video's for now I know this kind of project is far out of my reach!
Cool little vice well done 👍🏻
Excellent job. Came out beautiful. A ton of work, yes, but the result was worth it.
Well done mate!!. To achieve what you have with the materials you had available is a massive achievement. Irrespective of what you attempt we all learn something from it. Keep up the good work.
This was a fantastic project and journey!
Very cool project! Thanks for sharing and all the knowledge that's definately worth saving a few blunders.
I think it turned out great so congrats with a succsessful finish of your firs "big project" I'm impressed!
Vice looks superb buddy! Top job. 👍
Excellent series! Bravo!
Good work using what you have on a budget. It’s your equipment, your own risks, and your knowledge, which is all that matters.
Love a shiny new tool. Making them yourself is even better. 👍👍
Excellent vise. We shared this video (alongside parts 1 and 2) on our homemade tools forum 😎
Good job! Nice new vice you have there Sir.
Brilliant job, impressive on your available equipment.
Nicely done! A wonderful project - and yes, it does look very complicated....
This series was great, I like the way you used a boring head in the toolpost to get a radius on the part, I'd like to see more of that, cheers
Good job dude. A ton of work and learning.
Wow you should be really proud of that build! 👍
Inspiring. 🙂
What you do with these mini machines is pretty impressive.
Great build. I appreciate the insight on grinding with a mill. I’ve always wondered. For stock, I’ve had luck searching for “4140 drops or off cuts”. Some of the drops are quite large, at least for my small shop. Cheers.
Why "drops" ? Like, I can understand from context that it's more or less synonymous with "off cuts", but I've heard "drops" used in a couple of videos about sourcing metal for hobby machining, and they never explain just where that term comes from.
@@slartimus "Plate drops refer to leftover inventory of steel plate created from in-house processing orders." Found this on a company website, though I don't know what it actually means.
I happened to find that term used while searching eBay for steel, and it has helped me find some steel that I can’t usually justify buying through McMaster, etc. I’m in the US, so the term drops may or may not help depending on where you are. Search terms are a mystery to me sometimes. Cheers for chiming in boys!
@@slartimus In a commercial setting, the off-cuts are often literally dropped on the floor or in a bucket to keep things moving until you have a few minutes to clean up.
Definitely need screw holes for softjaws and the like for that vice!
Such an amazing build!
Keep em coming!!!!
Gday, this vice turned out great and a credit to you for giving the project a go, to grind this on a mill is a massive feet in itself but you made it work, this proves you can make do with the gear you have, I’ve throughly enjoyed watching this series and appreciate you sharing the journey, cheers
Thankyou matty that's very kind of you.
Just an aside from a toolmaker.. the standard for grinding is about 1/4 the depth of cut you were taking. You typically want multiple smaller passes, particularly at the finish pass and the one before. You'll be spinning those wherls much slower than an actual grinder, so your feed looked good anyway.. congratulations on a difficult setup.
Yeah if i could take smaller cuts i would, but the finest resolution on the dials was 0.01mm. Even then I stalled the mill a few times, which was always fun to watch. Cheers
That turned out way better than I was expecting considering the relatively low tech heat treating methods and grinding on the mill (which is something I've been meaning to do on my mill just need to complete an arbor for my stone).
The tolerances you got in the end was very good. It's going to be a nice vise that should last you a long time.
yay ... very cool set of videos
I get way less done with bigger machines.
You're great inspiration!
Great work brother! 👍 seriously impressed 👏
Thank you, Cheers
Enjoyed this very much.
absolutely fantastic. Great project.
Turned out quite nice !
Great work dude the final piece looks great. It’s amazing the work arounds we do in our shops to get the end product. Using your mill as a surface grinder although not ideal seems to have got a good surface finish.
Thanks Joe, definitely chuffed with the final result. Cheers
That's some cool vise! That grinding on the mill was impressive. Hopefully the dust didn't get where it shouldn't.
Great project.Thank you.
Project came out really good!
I think you've just come up with your next project. Making a surface grinder!! Possibly out of a cheap desk mounted pillar drill? Or an angle grinder maybe?? Nice video.
Great job well done.
Hi mate, just stumbled across your series on machine vice making and was very impressed with what you do. It seems that you are working at the absolute limits of your resources but are doing a great job nevertheless. I find it encouraging because I have plenty of desire but little in the way of machinery. Thumbs up from a fellow Australian.
Thankyou i am glad you enjoyed the video.
That's great, s/o using a mill to replace the surface grinder. Same that I do, and also dry, sometimes mounted on a precision angle plate, dressing the cup wheel with a single diamond dresser like you did, and I often have a problem with burned workpiece, despite my mill is equipped with CNC and I let it run automatically. Sadly my mill is not able to grind it's table, so I have to use shims to align the workpiece really flat, at least if I need precision. I think some day I'll buy a magnetic table.
Nice Work thanks for showing
Great project mate! I bet you learned many technics while making it and got a new tool in inventory.
Absolutely, first time doing case hardening, apart from being taught it out of a book. More fun to do it than learn about it
you can try to find local machine shops and ask if they be willing to sell you materials because they will always have off cuts and what not. At my work we had to move a machine a bit to fit a robot on it and I cleaned the area of the scrapped parts. Ended up over 2 000 kg or stainless and super alloys.
Proud of you dude for experimenting with something rather risky and still pulling it off! I hope your mill is OK but we really need to get you more tools like a surface grinder and heat treatment oven and some stock lol! Fabulous job pulling this off! To be honest, I was rather nervous throughout this project, but it seems to have turned out well and now you have a nice new vise that will be durable and give you more flexibility with new projects and allow you to do things you couldn't do before. I don't know if you did this off camera, but you could have tested the heat treatment and regrinding on a test piece before working on a piece that you've spent many hours on and risking it cracking or warping too much. It's fantastic that it worked out though and it looks beautiful! Just please find a better way to heat treat in the future so you don't damage your existing tools 😅
Nice job!
This turned out great!
Nice vice!!
Quedó hermosa amigo... Saludos desde argentina
Great job!
What a great project! It might not have been big enough for this but Artisan supplies in Australia has plenty of large stock sizes of medium and high carbon steels for a pretty reasonable price, if you are ever looking again. Look under blacksmithing supplies on the site.
Artisan supplies have a great selection of materials, I've used them before on several occasions. Last time I checked they only carried thin bar stock for knives. Not too helpful here since I needed 25mm thick stock. Cheers
@@artisanmakes if you check out the blacksmithing section they have 5160 up to 60mm round bar at the moment. But still might not be big enough for what you want. Unless you get into forging too...
@@Joe_Bandit round bar is not generally what I use. Never thought about forging it but I'd have to make a diy power hammer first :) Hehe
@@artisanmakes A man who uses a hacksaw for the amount of stuff you do doesn't need a power hammer :D
Awesome work! I’ve used alcohol as coolant for grinding on the mill, works decently, if you do it again.
Interesting video. Thanks! There’s a product called Cherry Red, that makes case hardening a lot simpler.
Very good nice work
thanks for sharing!
That was great! I have an idea for the old vise. You could machine it on the mill (I think it is cast iron so it should be easy to machine), and see if you can improve its tolerance/accuracy. I don't think you can do any worse, milling it, than how some of the cheaper vises come when new. It would make for a great video 👍 Thanks for making this video dude - cheers from Tasmania. Craig
Cheers Craig. My plans for the vice are not too far off from that. The bottom is far from flat so the plan is to hand scrape it flat. Not something that I've ever done but id love to give it a go. Cheers
@@artisanmakes Great idea. I have done a minimal amount of scraping, learning as a novice, and with a modified (sharpened) hand file. I think you will do well, it is not too hard to learn, just requires a bit of patience and a couple of basic items, like marking blue and a surface plate. 👍
Très bo travail félicitations
As always, super creative problem solving. When grinding, you’re working in tenths so you’ll want finish passes to be .0001” or .0002” I have no idea what that equates to in mm, but it sounds like you figured it out.
@@matthewf1979 1 inch = 25.4 mm
That would be about 5 microns, but the mill quill feed isn't fine enough to really do that. So my best best was 10 micron (4 tenths or so) passes. cheers
@@matthewf1979 One thou is 2.54 hundredths of a mm. Call it 2.5 if you like, but not 1!
Bloody nice job that mate. Very well done, you can pat yourself on the back for this project. I love making tools to make more tools, it's soooo satisfying! One thing however in your previous video( 2) you were not using a forge, you were using a furnace. A forge uses direct forced air into the fire to raise the temperature. Your furnace apart from lowering the gas pressure of the burner has no real temperature control.
Yeah for sure, I tend to use those words interchangeably buy I probably should start referring to it as a furnace
AMAZING!!!
well done
I find it easier to get 5160 (or sup9) in bar stock suitable for milling projects, as it is commonly available annealed for spring manufacturers. 4140 is readily available, but generally only as round stock.
You're right about the 4140, which is a shame id get great use if it came in bar stock more readily. Not sure if I have ever seen 5160 offered by my suppliers. Cheers
@@artisanmakes your other option is Edcon steel, they sell O1 as bar stock. It is listed as "precision ground" steel on their web site.
I agree worrying about the case cracking. If you feel it's deep enough there should be no cracking.
Thankyou, i guess ill find out in time, from what I saw on the few forum posts, cracking seemed to be an issue with thin casings, much thinner than mine. Cheers
BRAVO.....
It does look good, well done. I would strongly recommend that you do NOT hold it at angle in the other vice as you showed in the video, doing that will create stresses that will crack the case hardening as there is no support in the centre of the vice body where the hold down screw slides.
Thanks for the suggestion and its definitely something to think about. I'll test and see, to a reasonable limit but this certainly sounds like another downside of case hardened steel. Cheers
I wonder if the initial out-of-spec was the result of the warped part being clamped down. Did you use shims under the raised sides? If not, the clamping would have bent the part flat and when you release the clamps it would jump crooked again.
In any case, I'm glad to see you can do some basic grinding on a mill. (taking into account all the risks and limitations).
About the cooling fluid...perhaps another type of coolant is used for grinding. More...watery or something.
Yeah its definitely something that could have happened. I used as little pressure as possible but it is possible that I bent the vise on the first grind. That was in part the reason why I later made the dovetail table clamps, to avoid it. As for the coolant, I'm sure that there are grinding specific coolants, but the stuff I used can be used for grinding work too. I just had to water it down.
@@artisanmakes The problem with the coolant might have been volume. A small amount of liquid plus grinding dust is pretty much guaranteed to make a paste I'd have thought, but with enough flood coolant the paste will get flushed away. Not a grinding expert by any means, but I think it's a reasonable hypothesis.
@@cooperised its a reasonable assumption. I didn't use the flood coolant to avoid getting the grit mixed into the large coolant tank, but it is quite possible that flooding would have fixed this. Unsurprisingly there isn't a while lot of info about grinding using this method so it was all trial and error. Cheers
I think you have done a fantastic job from scratch. I have been wondering about using my mill as a grinder so thanks for exploring that. Where did you buy the stones?
I bought the stones from a store called AMIS industrial, but I'm sure that they are also sold on ebay. Norton cup grinding wheels. The arbours were made on the lathe
Always put 1/4-20 tapped screw holes in the fixed jaw sides to hold stops for repeat set ups.
I have a stop that mounts to the table so this wasn't necessary
Hello, as always, a super inspiring video! :-), any chance you could inform a little more about the cup grinder, what grid size was it, rpm for the mill, and what was the dept of each run?
Also, what was the rod used to fix the cup grinder, did it come with the cup grinder or what did you use?
Kind regasds
Martin
Denmark
I'd be curious to know if the vice has a tendency to twist when held down by 2 clamps with off-center machining forces.
Probably not a big deal as you have the option to add more clamps
how would a grinding stone like this do on something like a drill press that u could say add one of the cheaper x y tables from amazon for pretty cheap, but that would keep u from having to worry about destroying your mill an i figure one of those cheap tables isn't a huge lose but u might be able to do something that seals it off. main thing is its not your mill but might pull off a similar result?
Good job man it looks good.
I am curious though why you never seem to use HSS tool bits on your lathe? I find that HSS gives a better finish than my carbide tool bits.
With the set up that I have, I get better results using carbide. The rpm is fixed at an awkward rpm for hss, so unless I'm doing brass or 6061 aluminium where hss works brilliantly, hss tends to burn up. Cheers
looks good, it's always fun to make you're own tools. Is the gearbox still in the works??
Thankyou. The gear box is still in the works. I changed the design to accommodate a bigger motor and a different mounting system, since it will end up forming the mills power table feed. Cheers
Good job mate. What sort of mill are you using?
It is a sieg x2.7l. It's a Chinese import, seems to get the job done
Do you not have something like McMaster-carr for small pieces of material and hardware?
I don't know too much about mccaster, but we do have places that sell small pieces of stock, the problem i have is just the sizes that I use are less common i.e. 25x50 and 75x25 flat bar, which is generally only sold as mild steel. All the tool steels are sold as round bar. It simply just reflects the industry in my state. Cheers
👍
Hello Sir, I really like your videos. Do you think you could give me the data of the cup grinding disk, dimensions and grid size, i would like to buy a similar?
Also, was it 0,01 mm cut in each go you did with this cup grinding disk?
Hey mate where about in Aus are you? great work!
Currenty in SA but only for a short while
Check to see if I can edit youtube comments. Fed up of typing them in then losing them because youtube decides to play the next video. If you can read this, I can’t edit them.
I get the option to edit it but when I click it, I can’t do it. At least I know know.
I'm just a average guy who loves watching these maker videos, it was an awesome project to watch :D . I'm curious about one thing though, don't the carbon content higher on the surface area and lower in inside parts of the metal? So when you are grinding away atoms from surface area, it should gradually become softer on the surface? I wonder If that's detectable with the hardness tester files.
I wonder that too. Must penetrate to some degree, but how much?
From what I understand there is indeed a gradient between the case and the interior, but it's not linear, it's kind of sigmoidal - so near the outside of the case the hardness varies very little as you move inwards.
What about hand grinding with a Glass Surface Plate, various grit carborundum paper, and Prussian Blue ?
For the smaller parts , to maintain the 90° angles, a sacrificial milled angle plate from Angle Iron. A lot more hand work, but no contamination of machine tools with grit.
( lens grinding in optics was done by hand for centuries!).
Only cost is Time.
Did you check the hardness after you’d ground the vice to check you haven’t ground through the case hardened layer?
Yes and it is still hard and roughly 55-60 HRC. Cheers
Hi do you have a scrap metal place near you. If so try there for some stock. Take your files with you and you will very surprised what goodies you will find.
If you go to a scrap yard and ask for forklift forks you can get medium carbon steel for a decent price.
I befriended a local shed shop type, local yokel, ma and pa tool and die maker shop who after decades of "being thrifty" are willing to sell me off cuts and drops for pennies on the dollar , might want to look around
What did you use under the surface gauge as a flat surface? I am needing a flat surface but don’t know what to use? I am new to machining 😅
I used a granite surface plate. Its pretty much a ground flat piece of granite. My one is a little small but it gets the job done. Cheers
@@artisanmakes thanks for that! Also would you be able to make a beginner video going over techniques, oils, terminology etc? That would be a huge help!