Abandoned By F1 - Old Hockenheimring
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
- The old Hockenheimring, an old forgotten Formula 1 relic. The Hockenheimring has a history and It's old, iconic forest layout is something that has fascinated me for years. In this video we take a look at what caused the classic layout to become taken over by nature and hidden away in the forest, never to be used again. Enjoy!
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I wished the old layout would still exist, like the Nordschleife, at the Nürburgring, for historical reasons.
I think I saw something about them selling the land where the old track was.
@@Dink-ss7wv I guess they did. It was Bernie who wanted 67 laps with loads of spectators instead of just 45 laps and trees outside the motodrom. :/
@@Dink-ss7wv It had something to do with the forest. For the new layout they had to cut down some trees (Alot of them) and in exchange for that they had to plant new ones.
It would make an amazing track for slower GT cars (GT3, GT4, hell, even TCR)
I Not expected I would miss this this old Hockenheim so much.
Please make it a series, mate. I really wanna know the story behind these lost F1 tracks.
Possibly 👀
Watch circuit of the past
"Circuits of the past" and "GP Laps" have you covered. 👍
Thanks guys
we NEED the rich history of the alltime favorite of sochi NOW :P
I remember Hockenheim used to be one of my favorite track after monza to play in f1 games in early 2000.
Ooo the memories!!!
lol same here. actually nowadays I can drive on the track for myself and wonder how boring the old layout would be in real life, glad they changed it
And on the first ToCA Race Driver game
Same for me. Life went on and I just recently came back to f1 gaming, and was so disappointed about the new track. Sure it’s safer … but here … safer equals boring. Racing on Old Hockenheimring, is kinda like going pedal-to-the-metal on Eau Rouge on Spa. It takes balls, luck and determination.
I have the F1 2000 game CD on the shelf behind me, can't bear to throw it out
Love the old layout. But I understand why they shifted to a more contained track. Still there's something about blasting into that forest at full throttle that will make me smile
Yeah, it's more lije screaming through a valley in a fighter at hedgetop height than driving a car.
I loved it as a kid, because outside Monza it was the only place where F1 cars went properly fast.
Today I still love it for being fast and also because it's more about being brave than being technically perfect.
At the same time it rewards a cautious driver, as just like old cars you can't play too fadt and loose with it.
Just like old cars it is an equalizer that more often than not trip up the aliens used to getting away with murder on modern cars and tracks.
Just like the real track, tje simracing one often produces upsets, for example if one of the aliens closed their radiator just a bit too much in search of laptime.....
I don't mind the new track. It looks good, the racing is good, and it is very safe.
However, what I *_do_* mind is that the track officials decided to ruin the old layout completely.
When Autodromo Juan and Oscar Galvez in Argentina was shortened and made more technical and safer, the old layout, which went around that lake, was intact and it still exists.
Look what Japanese did with Fuji. The new facilities around the track have been built everywhere *_but_* on the Daiichi corner.
Why?
Because Daiichi is a part of the *_HISTORY_* of this track.
The same goes for Monza.
No one used the oval layout in its true purpose since 1960s, apart from WRC last year, they stand there abandoned and useless. But, they still stand.
Why?
Because they are also *_HISTORY._*
You don't destroy a 7000-year-old stone axe because a chainsaw exists.
You preserve it, as it's *_history._*
The same thing should have been done with the old Hockenheim.
The old track is a part of the *_history_* of motorsport.
It's a relic of the past.
It didn't have to host anything. It could just stay there, like the Oval Section at Monza.
I loved the old layout, it was beautiful and it always seemed exciting for fans to see who would be in front coming out of the forest even if they didn't see the pass. I don't event want to watch them race in Hockenheim now as it just reminds me of what was lost.
Back when I played F1 97 on the PS1, Hockenheim was my favourite track as it was by far the easiest for my 10 year old self to get around without crashing on every corner! 😅
Hahah true! Just ride the barriers 😅
lol same here
The same for me on F1 2000. Perfect beginner race. I honestly thought that this layout was just fake because it seemed so unreal to me.
Me too
F1 97!!!? That was when I was born lol
I visited Hockenheim two years ago and I spent about two hours in riding my bicycle on the old circuit.
It was a punch in my stomach to see the bad end one of my favourite circuits made.
My Mom bought me tickets for the last ever F1 GP on the old Hockenheimring. I will never forget this. We were 200m after Clark and had a great view and a great time. I was 14 back then...
The first circuit basically followed public roads, which even on Google maps, are still there.
I used to love the old layout. The varied weather conditions effecting different parts of track (stadium vs forrest) added another dimension to race strategy.
I think Jacques Villeneuve summed it up best, the old Hockenheim wasn't a huge technical challenge but it was at least different whereas the modern layout is just another modern F1 circuit.
I was gutted back in 2002 when I discovered the layout had changed. The old layout was fantastic and was my go to track on F1 97. I get the reason for modifying the circuit, but it's unforgivable that the old circuit is no more. Would have been great to hold historic events.
The old Hockenheimring along with the Sudschliefe (South Loop) section of the Nurburgring were just something else and would add so much to the F1 calendar.
I watched my only F1-race in 1992, when the track still had the old layout.
Me and my friend were sitting on the grassy banks of the 'Hardbachdamm' - what was often a little euphemistically called a 'Naturtribüne' (natural stand) by the viewers. We spent just below 100 Deutsche Mark each for three days of action, which ist unthinkable in today as prices have been rocketing in the following years.
I'll never forget that inferno of the 12-cylinders, screaming out their violent anger into the forest, from wehre you got the cacophony of it's several echoes as a 'rest-of-mind-blowing extra' - it was unreal, almost too good to be true and I soaked in every little bit of it; every sound, every smell and every sight...!
When i looked around I could see many fans had ear-protective headgear on, while I had my hands at my ears trying to enlarge them, so as to fetch as much as possible of this beautiful and breathtaking hell-of-a-noise ! :-)
My friend had a Citroen 2CV back then; we changed the front seats for two leather-seats from a Saab 9000. We cruised down to Hockenheim from Dortmund, some 300+ Kilometers; we made it in a very relaxed 6-hour trip - clinging on to the truck's slipstreams in the right lane. This way we considerably cut on our gasoline-consumption, leaving us with mo' buckz for da beer !
That was a great, all-fun weekend - one of the best I've had.
It is so sad to learn what they did to the track, as this 'lonesome' forest-section was pretty unique in F1.
I consider myself very glad to have witnessed this moment in F1 and motor-sport history.
I don't know if it would have been possible, but I think they should have handled it like the nürburgring. Race mostly on the GT track, but still keep the nordschleife alive.
Totally agree. I understand they had to put the track to modern safety standards, but to go as far as destroying the asphalt and planting trees to prevent people from ever using it again.. Damn, even Monza's high speed ring is in better shape !
@@aaronaaronsen3360 that is sadly how occupied germany deals with its history
right after the war people were paid from funds for "rebuilding" to destroy all the facade ornamentations they had
when AVUS was changed, instead of just putting the new hairpin inside the old turn they tore down the uniquely steep and smoothly shaped banked turn
Thanks for putting Rubens on the video thumbnail! What a day that was when he won there. These are the days we all miss from F1. The passionate days!
If it wasn't changed people would be complaining it would have been a too easy DRS pass so that's what you also would've gotten and then it would be boring cause there's no "difficult overtake"
No, the old lay-out *was* better. It was more difficult to overtake back then so it made good sense to have such long straights for competitive racing. Austria, Monza and Belgium were good back then too but have now been made *too* easy. Why? Not because the circuits are "bad" like this one, but because DRS exists (which shouldn't to begin with, seeing how F1 should focus on fixing its aerodynamics problems instead).
TL;DR it's not the circuit, it's current aero and DRS.
You're incorrect
The easy answer to that is don't have DRS zones at the old Hockenheimring.
@Low Pressure Circuits shouldn't be changed to pander to modern circuits, cars should be changed so overtaking becomes the norm again.
Case in point: Mugello and Imola.
@Low Pressure then how do you "evolve" monaco that's already been surrounded by bricks and walls. And sea too
i'm so glad we have simracing and racing games so we can still enjoy these marvellous tracks
I absolutely LOVE old Hockenheim. I can only dream of driving it flat out. What a t-h-r-i-l-l it must have been.
There is still a chance in some sim games, at least! Not the same experience, but pretty close!
It's a thrill the first several times around but once you get used to blasting around at 350 km/h in a straight line for a long time it gets stale. That's not me speaking from personal experience by the way (I wish lol) but that's simply how human psychology works. If something is extreme but easy it's thrilling for the first few times or if you don't do it very often (like going on a rollercoaster in a theme park) but if you do it very often because it's your job you get used to it and it quickly loses it's luster.
@@Weerknuffelbeer the thrill is not about driving 350kph. The thrill is about 350kph in a racing situation while competing with other drivers. And be the last to break before the chicane..
I actually got the chance to visit Hockenheim for the 2016 German Grand Prix. While there, I chatted to some people who were also there. To a person, they all said that they preferred the track as it has been since 2002. The reasons varied, more laps in the race, more space for spectators, more chance for seeing the action, but they all agreed that the fans get more for their money since 2002 than they did before. I got to walk the track after the race and it's still possible to see where the old track used to diverge and join the current layout
There's also a skeleton in the closet of the old Hockenheim. On 7th April 1968, while competing in a minor Formula 2 race there, double world champion, and the man who earlier that year broke Fangio's win record, Jim Clark, lost his life when his car suffered a puncture at 150MPH and careered into an unprotected tree. There is a memorial to him at Hockenheim, but at the time of Hockenheim staging its first Grand Prix, there were reservations about going to the track Jim Clark was killed. The closest analogy to how people felt at the time I can use is, whenever people think of Imola, they can't help but think of Ayrton Senna. Prior to Jim Clark's death, drivers were regarded as light bulbs, easily replaceable, but that wasn't the case when Clark died. The sport was shaken to its core
its also way more fun than the old one from a drivers perspective
@@thomasbummer4361 Fictional nonsense. Most of the drivers liked old Hockenheim, Senna loved it. The new track is shit, never sold out and Hockenheim went bancrupt with it. The old track made a tiny profit, the new one doesn't, simple as that.
Old Hockenheim was far better, period. The new track is garbage.
@@jigglediggle29 u rly talk 100% crap
@@jigglediggle29 Have you watched an F1 race in person at the new Hockenheim? I have and honestly it is a very good circuit from a spectator perspective and does tend to produce pretty good racing.
watching onboards of the old layout is so cool, i just love seeing them fly down those straights
The best ✈️
Old > New!
Oh ein Mann mit vielen Interessen
Old, always
@@Icechild yep, Caesars palace was definetly better than cota...
From very nice to the biggest shit on the calendar! And only for F1 which will never race in Hockenheim again 👍 nice move!
>>>>>
The old layout is legendary. But y'all act like the new one is crap, its not. The new layout provide good and arguably better racing. Y'all just blinded by nostalgia
A little bit of nostalgic bias I guess 🤪
I'd love to see the old lay out brought back for endurance.
I don’t think it’s nostalgia if basically all the races have been shit, just go to Nurburgring
The new layout is crap mate
@@jack331 Nah, the old track is a bit meh.
I wish they had kept the old track in drivable.
I would love to see modern f1 cars on it.
Old hockenheim is better
Loved the old track in video games. The forest part is the thing I enjoyed the most.
loved the full throttle runs on the old layout
No idea why they tore down such an iconic section. I hope they re-consider one day repaving it just for a few throwback races or something
Old Hockenheim always produced great exiting races both for cars and motorcycles. I was lucky I got to witness races at the old track for F1, MotoGP, and WSBK.
Totally agree, I always loved the old circuit in the woods...so fast....so creepy
Whilst old Hockenheim can’t come back, I’d love to see its key motif of half-Spa, half-Hungary replicated. It’d really spice up the race with all the setup compromises
Baku is kind of like that, but…really. Come on. There’s no comparison.
I remember as a child sitting on the floor gazing at the Television and marveling at the car perspective as they went through the forest section.
Best part of that race imo.
The forest made it feel German. Otherwise, it's just a paved Disneyland. Nice Nico cameo at 5:59 .
Loved watching them race on the old track between the trees.
Same! A really great sense of speed
@@MadeByPerspective At first, they wanted to keep the old layout. Tilke wanted to make the track wider, building more grandstands in the woods.
Wish they would put these historical tracks in the current F1 Games, like they do with historical cars
My Fav Track from the old PC games of the early 90s
A dream track would be a combination of the two layouts, having the long straights up until the Senna chicane, and then the cars would rejoin the new layout in the Mercedes grandstand complex
So I get you never watched a Le Mans race?
That's actually pretty close to what Tilke wanted to do with the layout, but the owners said no. He was going to have the long stretch out to Clark, where it would turn around and rejoin somewhere by the lead up to Parabolika, giving the course a kind of devil's horns look.
It's a crime that Jim Clarke's memorial where he lift this world, is in the abandoned area.
Yes I truly agree with you. The long straights and the high speed braking zones into the chicanes was amazing and the possible overtaking opportunities was great.
Amazing video mate!!! Loved the extra bit of history and I just couldn’t get enough of the montage at the beginning! Great work, keep it up!
Thanks mate! Glad you liked it 😀
This was a great track to watch for home on the TV.
With that arc over Pers's head I can't help unseen him as a keychain 😂😂😂
The F1 itself never pushed the hockenheimring for layout change. That is a common misbelief. It was the Hockenheimring GmbH by itself during the Schumi hype. They even lie to the population of hockenheim to force the plans about the "needed" change because the people of hockenheim had have to vote for the reconstruction by referendum. The FiA was asked later and said that they never asked for a change and the old layout was up to standards at the time. The change was a big failure in any term and is still a financial desaster to this day. They are deep in red numbers since. There is a excellent german documentary with all details about the case. "Der Fall Hockenheimring"
So sad to have never seen this track in action 😭
At least we have onboards 🙌🏽
I wasn’t even born for the old hock
@@MadeByPerspective Yeah, but i think the real experience you only could have gotten, when you watched live. Just to see/ hear the V10 Roaming around there 😍🔥😂
@@hallo1881 Glory days.
I was 97 at F1, tickets for the "Südkurve", watched the highspeed in the woods on screen and seen live the cars came out of last chicane and racing into the "Motodrom".
Damned!!! This was great!!!
Tragic that we lost Jim Clark -- who is the equal GOAT alongside Juan Manuel Fangio, Ayrton Senna, Michael Schumacher and Lewis Hamilton in my view -- at this track.
But most if not all of the greatest classic tracks have also been marred by the deaths of absolute legends: Senna and Ratzenberger at Imola; Ascari, Rindt, Peterson and others at Monza; Villeneuve at Zolder; and far too many more.
The Old Hockenheimring was/is definitely still one of the best tracks of the glory days of F1, between it's fair share of moments & exciting races on the TV over the years, as well as being a great track to race around in the F1 games from back then too!😁👍
Good video. Yes I prefer the old layout. I visit the track twice in 1997 ans 1998 during a F1 weekend and it was fantastic. When I now see the new track I can almost cry.
I absolutely loved the old Hockenheim Ring. That and Spa are my favourite tracks. Keep up the good work.
Love the old layout. I loved the transition from forest to stadium, it's so amazing to race on in video games!
that old hockenheimring was amazing
Always loved the old layout. Now it's a Mickey mouse track.
I'm not a heavy F1 fan but old Hockenheimring layout was that racetrack which engraved its layout into my memory. I remember playing "Total Immersion Racing" and panicking when all those turns coming.
Seeing it nowadays fills me with sadness that the old layout is no more.
the Old Hockenheimring was the closest to the "Test Track" in Gran Turismo 1 & 2 I could get with F1 1998, 1999, 2000.
Old Hockenheim always had great races, sad they couldn't keep more of it, something completely different...
Sorry, but most of the F1 races were totally boring. I watched all of them (on tv that is) since 1992.
They should of preserved the old layout like with the Monza banking it's iconic. Don't know why they'd go to the trouble of ripping it all out it's such a shame
"should have" and yes, I agree.
I would like to see the old Hockenheimring used again as one of the possible configurations, also thank for the research on the ring an presenting it to the public.
The old Hockenheim was awesome especially watching these F1 cars going through the forest I have a few race from Hockenheim on tape that I watch once in awhile awesome track
Perfect video!! Thanks! Vitor - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Thanks for this video ... Old circuit was my fav ... Long straights ...I still remember cars doing 375+ kmph in the long straights ...
Old one, and by a country mile! Still breaks my heart to see the forest where the track was. Same here in Rio for Jacarepaguá.
I used to live 6 kilometers from the track, in Heidelberg. really sad that I never got to go to the track
Although for F1 the new layout is certainly better for safety and spectator enjoyment, I wish they kept the old circuit and made it so you can race either track. Similar to Nürburgring.
I loved the Hockenheiming weekend, wherever, F1 went there esp during the Schumacher era. It always reminded me of Monza and the all out nature of the circuit lent itself to F1 very well. The change of weather, change of scenery from forest to stadium was very pleasing to the eye.
Thanks for a great video
The race in 2000 was amazing in my opinion
Great video. Old hockenheim for me
Thank you for an infomative video. Old layout definitely.
If the old layout remained people would complain the track is too boring
Dusted off the ol' n64 last week purely to blast around old hockenheim as driver Williams. The feels!
As someone with no nostalgia for the track, I would like to see the history of the old layout preserved or even be used in other series, but no way do I think it’ll fit the current f1 car
I genuinely miss the old layout. I always see Canada as a mini hockenheim. It's about a close as we can get now to a simple pure speed track.
Uhhh, Monza?
I miss that track in F1 video games. Back in the 90s playing Geoff Crammond's GP4 it was one of my favorite tracks.
I don't know if someone already mentioned this, but Tilke originally had much different plans for the new layout, with it following the old circuit up until the Clark chicane, making a bit of a Clark shrine around where his memorial was, but when he joint the project the state government/track owners had already sold off pretty much all of the forest sections and it had already started to be reclaimed by the trees. Tilke gets a lot of hate (some quite rightly) but when people complain he butchered hockenheim its a bit unfair as he literally only had a finite space to work with!
Yeah, people forget that he quite often gets restrictions forced onto him which really limit the tracks. Red Bull Ring as well, personally a track I really like and most do, but some still want the western loop back, but that simply had to be removed due to local residents complaining about it. And having the track go up the hill on the right side of the hill meant the entire rest of it also had to be redone. But that's just another example of restrictions being forced upon track designers by clients or local residents.
I went to the Hockenheim ring in 1989 and I did prefer the old layout. I remember we had to delay our departure from the track as some from our party had watched the race from the Oskurve. It was over an hour walk through the forest back to the parking area! The 1986 race there was one of the best I've ever seen.
I miss the old Hockenheim Ring. I was there in 1992 watching the GP with Nigel Mansell, Ayrton Senna, Gerhard Berger, Riccardo Patrese, Michael Schumacher, Jean Alesi. I miss those racing days...
Remember this track watching as a kid couldn't agree more, also the long camera shots you see the cars accelerating towards you moving around with sparks flying going past at over 300kph F1 at its best
Nice one. Please continue a series with other tracks.
Awesome Mate!
I would love the old Hockenhiemring to be brought back as well as the Adelaide GP Track
I agree, the amount of passing today would be insane at Hockenhiem and Adelaide was a much better track than Melbourne will ever be.
I miss old Hockenheim.
Great video.old is gold. They should bring that track back.
Was just talking with my mates about the old Hockenheimring. It was such a legendary circuit...
the old layout is easily one of my favourite tracks. one of my first memories when i really got into f1 was barrichelo’s win in 2000. and i remember watching troy bayless win in world superbike on a ducati that same year. the forest section was so fast and easily provided some of the best high speed overtakes i’ve ever seen. it’s quite sad that it was ripped up. you’d think they would have preserved it like the old nurburgring. but alas, there’s always footage of the old beast. i could only imagine what these new cars would do in that forest section.
Was a truly awesome track, the Old Hockenheimring... so many memories of watching Prost, Senna, Mansell, Piquet and later Schumacher and Hill blasting through the forest, slipstreaming... real ballsy track. A favourite after Spa and Monza, and the pre-nutered Silverstone.
I loved watching races at the old HRing, the flareups coming off the line to the first corner, then the high speeds going into the chicanes led to some great passes and mishaps. It just was fun to watch. Of course, there were some bizarre moments that we will remember the HRing notably the Jos Verstappen fire in the pit lane that almost got out of hand, the Damon Hill crash on the very first corner at the start of lap 2 while leading the race to name a few.
I used to love watching the races from here. Bikes and cars.
The thing with the Nordschleife and old Hockenheim is they connect racing with one of main components of why we love cars and racing, roads. A road isn't just the surface a car drives along, it isn't just the collection of corners, straights and features either. Its that surface and those features along with the landscape it moves through, its why races in the German forests where so iconic in the way Monaco is or outside of F1 things like comparing Corsican and Welsh stages in Rallying.
Its something F1 and other motorsports have lost sadly.
I like the 90's layout. I think it's a missed opportunity that most sims don't include it as a track configuration if they feature Hockenheimring as a official track.
old hockenheim, some of my earliest memories of watching F1 are from that track
I watched the 500cc Grand Prix motorcycles there in "93 !!!!! Whoohoo, that was awesome.
I grew up watching F1 in the 80s and 90s and used to love the old Hockenheim.
The new one is almost like a runt child compared to its father.
It’s what they’ve done to many classic tracks in the name of “progress”.
Not only F1... i remember former DTM. Amazing duells in the woods. What they did with Hockenheim is just a rape! RIP Hockenheimring.
I was there in 1989 and had a stadium seat at corner 1. I remember the screaming V12 engine sounds that lasted long after
the F1 cars disappeared into the forest. It was an awesome track especially with that huge stadium. Btw.. it also had a great car museum
I preferred the old layout to see cars peak at about 360km/h. But overtaking opportunities and fan accessibility are better on the modern layout. One thing they did wrong was sell off the wrong part of land so Tilke couldn't use the original area of the Jim Clark memorial as part of the new circuit. He gets the blame for ruining the circuit by the nostalgists but he was limited by the land area at his disposal. The other thing wrong, because of this, is that the lap time is a bit too short for formula 1 (although Sakhir outer loop and the Red Bull ring probably proved this doesn't matter) considering the amount of the modern circuit that could be seen from strategically placed spectator areas.
You could do other videos like this on Osterreichring and the old 5-mile interlagos which was condensed into almost the exact same area as the modern version and includes some of the same corners.
You can add Silverstone and Donington to that too, as well as Zandvoort. The old Interlagos was a true monster.
I can only speak about the new Hockenheimring as we had a ride 2004 in a 650 HP Porsche 996 GT2 (ex-Jarier FAT Turbo Le Mans 1998) and it really is a staggering circuit with many possibilities to overtake. They were putting down some rubber for the first GP at the new track. And indeed it proved a great GP afterwards!
great video
I got to go to 2002 race... the only F1 race I've seen in person. I was in the U.S. army and a nice German family invited me to go with them and I down in the forest section... one of my best memories.
I think the old hockenheimring is iconic and its sad that its abandoned but i must say Tilke did a great job with the limited space he was given,although i would remove the mercedes grandstand section idk i just dont like it. Great video mate and as someone said make this a series 👍
Thanks for watching! :)
The new autodrome is one of the best in the world,without any doubt.
But at what price?
Would love to see Endurance series like Le Mans on the old layout, but F1 at the new version!
That would be awesome just like Endurance Racing using old & new Nurburgring layout
Totally agree the old layout was awesome!! Bring it back
5:56 Min.: You should have shown a picture with both versions side by side (and for a longer time), so that one could compare them really.