@@MoeAli-bw1uf So, Montana is a trickier one for me. I think the offense revolutionized the NFL....but I'm not sure how to determine his credit vs Walsh vs Rice. He had solid accuracy but Young drove the offense better....being said, there are few players who came up as big as Joe when it mattered most.
@theunlikelysuccess joe montana won a ring without Walsh and 2 rings without rice. Bill walsh ran the same offense with multiple qbs but joe made it famous
@MoeAli-bw1uf The first Super Bowl was led by that defense during the regular season. They allowed less than 20 points 13X that regular season, but Joe did lead them to wins in the playoffs. Not saying Joe wasn't great, just saying I don't think he revolutionized passing. Even he has admitted he couldn't do what Marino could do passing wise. Joe was absolutely clutch though. He was ice cold when things mattered the most. That's what he brought to the game in my opinion, and that's why he has the rings.
Bringing up Montana’s Hall Of Fame head coach when the guy who coached Marino for the majority of Marino’s career has the most wins as a head coach in NFL history is wild.
Highlighted comment @gohawks415 It could be seen that way, but I could make the case Don Shula's best years happened in the 70's pretty easily. But, I get the point you're making.
While this is true, Shula stunk after about 89. His inability to put a defense on the field. He failed to continue developing the offensive scheme. Failed to aquire offensive talent. He fell off hard.
His best shot to make it back was the very next year in 1985. The Dolphins had the Patriots they had beaten at home 18 straight games and the Dolphins crap the bed. 5 turnovers and the Patriots and then get stomped by the Bears in the Super Bowl. Maybe the Dolphins would have given the Bears a much tougher game.
@redmustangredmustang 85' they beat the Bears, and that probably is the one for them. They faded through the back half of the 80's but put some pieces together by 90'. I think 93' was a missed opportunity but who knows if they would have been ready for the Cowboys.
@redmustangredmustang Marino has always been a 'what if' to me. I've always wondered what he would have accomplished on the 49ers or Broncos from that period but maybe I'm just biased because he was one of my childhood favorites. But that 93' year felt like they could have won it all.
He was years ahead of his time, the problem was he never got better, he came in to the NFL as the finished polished passer, defenses figured him out and then that was it. I'll say this about Dan Marino, he took chances and made and completed risky throws, throws average QBs and even very good QBs would be sweating bullets making but Marino did it like it was nothing.
@candlestick1231 I think he developed but the team around him got marginally worse as his team went on. Once his two best WRs moved on, it impacted how 'good' he looked.
@Subhuman_Gamer This is the way I see it. When he first came into the league the Dolphins were legit contenders but they faded after 85' until later in his career.
@Subhuman_Gamer Clayton and Duper were pretty good. In my opinion, the defense is where they tailed off heavily. It got pretty bad after Marino's first two years.
When Marino came into the league people said he was the best passer anyone had seen. He played with Joe Montana and John Elway Steve Young and Jim Kelly were any of them better than he was a chucking the rock? When Brady Manning Brees and Warner came along did anyone say they were better than him.
@grinningchicken I think Rodgers and Mahomes would be the next two in that convo. Maybe some said Favre, but for 20 plus years Dan was clearly the best passer anyone had seen.
@ I agree. Rodger’s Mahomes maybe Burrow if we see a little more of him Brady is obviously the goat of leadership consistency clutch play game management. But Dan the Man is on the Mount Rushmore of Pure Passers
No QB came into the League with a better chance for success than Marino did. He was drafted by a S.B. team, he had the No.1 Defense for Least Points Allowed, his backs had over 2,000 yds. rushing, he had the best coach in the League, and he was in his Prime from '83 through '86. That should have led to 2 to 4 S.B.'s but Dan couldn't play good enough in the playoffs.
84' they were in the Super Bowl and got smoked by the dynasty of the 80's. I would contend Walsh was the best coach in the league, but Shula wasn't a slouch. For reference, they had 25 yards rushing in the Super Bowl and gave up nearly 200 yards. 85' is the year they could be argued as a letdown. The team lost to New England but they had been the only team to beat the 85' Bears. I think that's the 'one that got away.' They had 68 yards rushing in that game and gave up 240. Can't put that on Dan. Dan might not have played the best games ever....but they got dominated during the years you mentioned on the ground. can't put that on Marino.
@@theunlikelysuccess In the '83 playoff loss Miami only had 13 less yds. gained than Seattle. Krieg was playing against a top Defense while Marino was playing against almost the worst. In '85, Miami only had 24 less yds. gained than the Pats, but Marino played much, much worse than Eason. Same as Montana vs. Marino.
Marino used his backs very effectively as receivers and yards are yards. The clock keeps moving in either case. In 10 seasons of Dan's career the Dolphins had over 2,500 yds. rushing and receiving.
@@dennismumford6108 Yea, I can see the case for this, but I think it's tough to ask a QB to carry you the way they did. Marino should be confirmation that NFL teams need balance. They didn't have games go their way, but he was also just beginning his career when they had the most balance. Tough ask but fair points.
@dennismumford6108 I do think they used the backs effectively in the passing game, and the scrimmage yards were solid. The defense faded after 84' and never got back on track until 90'. And that was more of a one off. I don't think Marino played on complete teams outside of 83/84.
No QB came into the League with a better chance for success than Marino. He was drafted by a S.B. team, he had the No.1 Defense for Least Points Allowed, his backs had over 2,000 yds. rushing, he had the best coach in the League, and he was in his Prime from '83 through '86. That should have led to 2 or 3 S.B.'s but Dan couldn't play good enough in the playoffs.
IF Dan Marino won a ring is he an unquestioned top 5 QB?
definitely
100% he revolutionized the qb position. So did Montana with the west coast offense
@@MoeAli-bw1uf So, Montana is a trickier one for me. I think the offense revolutionized the NFL....but I'm not sure how to determine his credit vs Walsh vs Rice.
He had solid accuracy but Young drove the offense better....being said, there are few players who came up as big as Joe when it mattered most.
@theunlikelysuccess joe montana won a ring without Walsh and 2 rings without rice. Bill walsh ran the same offense with multiple qbs but joe made it famous
@MoeAli-bw1uf The first Super Bowl was led by that defense during the regular season. They allowed less than 20 points 13X that regular season, but Joe did lead them to wins in the playoffs.
Not saying Joe wasn't great, just saying I don't think he revolutionized passing. Even he has admitted he couldn't do what Marino could do passing wise. Joe was absolutely clutch though.
He was ice cold when things mattered the most. That's what he brought to the game in my opinion, and that's why he has the rings.
Dan Marino is definitely in my top 5
@Kings0424 Same, might get pushed out with how good the current crop is though. A lot of greats for 5 spots.
@theunlikelysuccess Most definitely
Dan Marino is the Barry Sanders of quarterbacks.
@jg3000 Excellent analogy.
Bringing up Montana’s Hall Of Fame head coach when the guy who coached Marino for the majority of Marino’s career has the most wins as a head coach in NFL history is wild.
Highlighted comment
@gohawks415 It could be seen that way, but I could make the case Don Shula's best years happened in the 70's pretty easily. But, I get the point you're making.
While this is true, Shula stunk after about 89. His inability to put a defense on the field. He failed to continue developing the offensive scheme. Failed to aquire offensive talent. He fell off hard.
His best shot to make it back was the very next year in 1985. The Dolphins had the Patriots they had beaten at home 18 straight games and the Dolphins crap the bed. 5 turnovers and the Patriots and then get stomped by the Bears in the Super Bowl. Maybe the Dolphins would have given the Bears a much tougher game.
@redmustangredmustang 85' they beat the Bears, and that probably is the one for them. They faded through the back half of the 80's but put some pieces together by 90'. I think 93' was a missed opportunity but who knows if they would have been ready for the Cowboys.
@@theunlikelysuccess that's if Dan Marino doesn't tear his Achilles there.
@redmustangredmustang Marino has always been a 'what if' to me. I've always wondered what he would have accomplished on the 49ers or Broncos from that period but maybe I'm just biased because he was one of my childhood favorites.
But that 93' year felt like they could have won it all.
My father in law is a Dolphins die hard, so Marino with no rings make me very happy
@jaredwatt8769 This comment made me LOL.
He was years ahead of his time, the problem was he never got better, he came in to the NFL as the finished polished passer, defenses figured him out and then that was it. I'll say this about Dan Marino, he took chances and made and completed risky throws, throws average QBs and even very good QBs would be sweating bullets making but Marino did it like it was nothing.
@candlestick1231 I think he developed but the team around him got marginally worse as his team went on. Once his two best WRs moved on, it impacted how 'good' he looked.
Dan Marino was scary. The dolphins were not. Dan Marino is in my top 6
@Subhuman_Gamer This is the way I see it. When he first came into the league the Dolphins were legit contenders but they faded after 85' until later in his career.
@theunlikelysuccess if Marino had weapons, we would be having a different conversation.
@Subhuman_Gamer Clayton and Duper were pretty good. In my opinion, the defense is where they tailed off heavily. It got pretty bad after Marino's first two years.
@theunlikelysuccess absolutely he did have weapons at times.
When Marino came into the league people said he was the best passer anyone had seen.
He played with Joe Montana and John Elway Steve Young and Jim Kelly were any of them better than he was a chucking the rock?
When Brady Manning Brees and Warner came along did anyone say they were better than him.
@grinningchicken I think Rodgers and Mahomes would be the next two in that convo. Maybe some said Favre, but for 20 plus years Dan was clearly the best passer anyone had seen.
@ I agree. Rodger’s Mahomes maybe Burrow if we see a little more of him Brady is obviously the goat of leadership consistency clutch play game management. But Dan the Man is on the Mount Rushmore of Pure Passers
How is he not someone’s top five. There’s Tom joe Peyton Dan and then the rest
Sounds like Peyton and Tom
@josephmartel6032 There are a lot of parallels.
No QB came into the League with a better chance for success than Marino did. He was drafted by a S.B. team, he had the No.1 Defense for Least Points Allowed, his backs had over 2,000 yds. rushing, he had the best coach in the League, and he was in his Prime from '83 through '86. That should have led to 2 to 4 S.B.'s but Dan couldn't play good enough in the playoffs.
84' they were in the Super Bowl and got smoked by the dynasty of the 80's. I would contend Walsh was the best coach in the league, but Shula wasn't a slouch.
For reference, they had 25 yards rushing in the Super Bowl and gave up nearly 200 yards.
85' is the year they could be argued as a letdown. The team lost to New England but they had been the only team to beat the 85' Bears. I think that's the 'one that got away.'
They had 68 yards rushing in that game and gave up 240. Can't put that on Dan.
Dan might not have played the best games ever....but they got dominated during the years you mentioned on the ground. can't put that on Marino.
@@theunlikelysuccess In the '83 playoff loss Miami only had 13 less yds. gained than Seattle. Krieg was playing against a top Defense while Marino was playing against almost the worst. In '85, Miami only had 24 less yds. gained than the Pats, but Marino played much, much worse than Eason. Same as Montana vs. Marino.
Marino used his backs very effectively as receivers and yards are yards. The clock keeps moving in either case. In 10 seasons of Dan's career the Dolphins had over 2,500 yds. rushing and receiving.
@@dennismumford6108 Yea, I can see the case for this, but I think it's tough to ask a QB to carry you the way they did. Marino should be confirmation that NFL teams need balance. They didn't have games go their way, but he was also just beginning his career when they had the most balance. Tough ask but fair points.
@dennismumford6108 I do think they used the backs effectively in the passing game, and the scrimmage yards were solid. The defense faded after 84' and never got back on track until 90'. And that was more of a one off. I don't think Marino played on complete teams outside of 83/84.
No QB came into the League with a better chance for success than Marino. He was drafted by a S.B. team, he had the No.1 Defense for Least Points Allowed, his backs had over 2,000 yds. rushing, he had the best coach in the League, and he was in his Prime from '83 through '86. That should have led to 2 or 3 S.B.'s but Dan couldn't play good enough in the playoffs.
If you retire with every individual record and zero rings, its probably not your fault.
@Diesel257 That's how I feel about it. Dan was a supreme talent at QB but outside of his first few years he was on unbalanced teams.
Dan Marino and Jim Kelly are the best non Super Bowl QBs of my generation.
@jg3000 Jim Kelly still the only QB to go to four straight Super Bowls, wild they have no rings.
Dan Marino is a victim of the Miami Dolphins just like Zach Thomas and Jason Taylor
@klausshuh5156 So many teams have great talents that never get to play in big games.
If it weren't for the Bengals stupidity Montana should only have 2 super bowl wins, still good, but the Bengals more than helped him.
@bigmacmach1185 There are some franchises that forever find ways to get in their own way.
@theunlikelysuccess so true
Dan Marino was very overrated.
😂😂😂 NO.