Every time you put up one of these "by history nerds for history nerds" videos, I get so proud that I'm a patron. Thank you Karl, and please don't ever stop being you ❤
We used to, but they are considered Saturday night specials. And in the case of the mp412 rex, bill “Lewinsky lovin” Clinton happened. This is also why no USA KS23.
@@baker90338 After becoming a massive fan of the fascinating Schofield I learned about the MP412 REX; I'm still crying to this day that we will never get the REX.
@@vogelfreiinderwuste4770 I’m pissed because he’s also the prick behind the AWB, but then again, bush senior did the sporting purpose clause, aka the “lol no scary gun imports” rule that gave us the famous Russian saiga and its unique sporterized stylings.
Yes, please feature this revolver more. There are videos of it here and there on YT but not enough in my opinion, I can find plenty of information on the Peacemaker though. I bought the 7.5" Schofield from Uberti chambered in .45 LC because the No.3 ended up being my favorite sidearm in Battlefield 1. It is very accurate in real life and the trigger throw on it is superb with a nice crisp break in my opinion. Things I would be interested in would be the average velocity of .45 LC if you could put it through a chronograph and its viability as a brush gun when deer hunting.
45 colt, 44 spl, and 44-40 are totally viable as medium game cartridges with 230-250 grain semi wadcutter or flatnose lead slugs at around 1000 fps. Excellent penetration, good bleed holes, and manageable recoil.
Have you got an older Smith to compare the trigger to? The biggest thing I worry about with these things is dropping all of that money on one and still wanting to rip it apart to try to clean up the action. I still want a Model 3 of any kind and a SAA of any kind some day. I'll settle for my H&R 999 for now.
@@xb0xisbetter Sorry I don't have an older S&W. I have several 1911's and compared to my Glocks I would put the trigger break of the No.3 on par, if not as good as the 1911. While fundamentally different designs I was always on the hunt for a pistol that had the trigger break to match my 1911. On a side note though that cross bar they added for safety can get in the way sometimes and cause it to bind but that has only happened to me after putting multiple cylinders of Cowboy loads through it. I understand that can make a break a pistol for some but being able to own a 'New' piece of history makes up for it in my mind. I have no issue with any other functionality of the gun. On a side note as well and totally unrelated to the trigger, I found that you can fit 5 rounds on the 91/30 Mosin stripper, its like a cheap mans quick reload just drop the round in the cylinder and pull it off the clip.
@@RG1001 Interesting insights, thank you. Even 1911 triggers can vary a lot though. Like I did a trigger job to the factor parts of my stupid Taurus PT1911 and I swear it is still worse than even factory triggers from other companies. Ironically, my Charles Daly turned out extremely light and crisp but I did put a different trigger altogether in that. My Metro Arms American Classic II's factory trigger was better than the PT1911 after a trigger job, and my Colt Combat Elite's is nice enough stock that I'm not going to bother. I have some older Smith Model 66s, with the pinned barrel and recessed cylinder and I literally don't feel anything pulling that trigger with the hammer back. I suppose they may not make .45 LC speed loader that fits the cylinder? Mosin strippers are an interesting idea.
I enjoy your videos because they offer a wide variety of well researched information presented well. I am a patron because I believe that the 2nd Amendment will be kept alive by people of diverse backgrounds and interests being introduced to firearms for various reasons and then becoming politically aware and active in fighting for their rights. You and your content bring those type of people into the fold. Keep up the good work.
@@morriganmhor5078 Granted Before industrial steel as we know it It was iffier But nowadays Yeah you can beef it up enough for sure Lord, just give me a modern top break in something like .38 so I don't have to sell my arm to buy one
@@hyenaloaf1858 To your comment I could say only this: in the time of construction, the black powder .45 LC did have about 600 J muzzle energy, .45 Schofield 380-445 J and .455 Webley 287-490 J. It doesn´t look as much different.
I have done extensive blackpowder testing with my uberti schofield. I have gotten the best results using olde eynsford powder, it burns cleaner like the original blackpowder of the day. Coupled with an original style BP bullet like the Nei 454230 or lyman 454190, lube is home made 50/50 beeswax, crisco (no salt) in a Schofield case. This would average me around 775fps with good accuracy. Regular Goex would bind after about 12-15 rounds where the olde eynsford would go 50 rounds before binding. A significant improvement, making range sessions much more enjoyable. This worked in my gun that has a fairly generous cylinder gap. Just an FYi for those wanting to stay with the Holy Black.
I love your enthusiasm for this era. It's nice being able to watch cowboy gear, without fuddlore, from someone who honestly enjoys and is knowledgeable about black powder.
I have a theory that Schofield had army supply connections so they plotted togther with S&W. Intending to design that short knowing it would run out from being used out in colts too . The problem would force the army to drop the colts to standard Schofield shorts enabling the suppliers to corner the ammunition contract as well. Turns out the army kept the colt and dumped the Schofield instead. Big oops.
I figure if that was the plan, S&W would have designed a round that actually fit the Colt. The .45 Schofield round was not a perfect replacement for .45 Colt because of the rim. A soldier loading their Colt SAA with .45 Schofield could only load three rounds, one for every other chamber, because the wide rims interfered with each other. The M1887 Ball cartridge is the length of .45 Schofield but with a narrower rim than the original .45 Schofield, just so you could fully load a Colt SAA with the rounds.
Hey Karl, people in black powder groups did lol kinds of ‘testing’ with these and black powder. If you use shorter 45 schofield and especially 45 cowboy special, and grease up the ‘arbor’ you can get almost 50 shots through before the gun locks up from the fouling. Mine will only get maybe 1-2 cylinders with 45 colt, about 30-35 with 45 schofield and 40-50 with the cowboy special. The shorter brass, less powder and grease seem to be the ‘solution’. Great video!
Good point. I've found that to be true to the point that nearly all my .45 BP shooting is with Schofield cases. I always check to see if the cylinder will turn freely after shooting a cylinder-full. If not, it's easily removed, cleaned, and regreased. I'm still playing around on the best grease to use. Very few modern revolvers would handle BP well and the new Schofield is no different. c
I load my own black powder 45 Colt cartridges and I can't fire more then 3 cylinders in my Pietta new model Army conversion, but I started loading my 45 Colt cartridges with bh209 black powder substitute and I don't have a problem with fauling anymore. I have shot 7 cylinders and no binding of the cylinder or action, and clean up is a lot easier too with the bh209.. now the bh209 is a little hotter than black powder so you don't want to load the same as black powder, bh209 cartridge loading chart says to weigh 23 grains of powder for 45 Colt. Thanks for a great video. Love the revolver.
You are partially correct on the ammunition issue, I suggest you go to Cartridges of the World , by Frank C Barnes, the .45 colt ammunition had a larger rim then the .45 Schofield, they did issue the Schofield amnunituon to Troopers etc with Colt single Action Armies, the .45 Schofield Ammunition would on occasion would slide to far forward in the chambers, out of reach of the firing pin , so troopers would have to rattle their Colt Single Action armies so as to get the .45 Schofield Ammunition seated back into proper position, so in the end the developed a new Cartridge called the .45 Government, it was a .45 Colt case shortened to .45 Schofield length, issue resolved. Modern .45 Schofield Ammuntion is infact .45 Government. Remember casings of those days were balloon head cases, were modern cases are solid head cases, ballon cases also worked better from what I'm told with black powder.
Great video! Really shows what a big thing fouling was and the ways they had to take it into account. Also the little cleaning midway through reminds me of how sometimes you used spit to remedy some of the fouling when you were shooting BP lever guns!
I own a couple newer Uberti reproductions and I'm very impressed. I haven't shot my colt reproductions but I have shot my New Army extensively. After more than 500 rounds and multiple outings, I have had zero issues with it. I thoroughly clean my blackpowder equipment so I have had zero rust issues. I am very impressed... especially considering I purchased my Uberti New Army for 199.00 with free shipping.
I used "Big Lube" bullets and that helped a lot. Also there's fouling build up in the frame because the frame is not scalloped around the barrel trapping fouling in the frame and causing the cilinder to bind...
When using Pyrodex I found it needs cleaning with black powder protocol first then cleaning again with modern nitro solvent right after. Never had a problem with the "etching" other people complained about from Pyrodex.
To further drive home the point about monetized content. I am a fan of Dungeons & Dragons, Magic the Gathering, History, and the shooting sports. I am subscribed to dozens of channels on these topics on UA-cam. I have to manually check my favorite shooting sports and history UA-cam channels regardless of monetization status. Karl, if I had the cash to spare at this point in life, I would send a few shekels your way. Keep up the great work!
I have a Stoeger Schofield in 45 LC. I purchased it over 30 years ago and I have never fired it. I have many other firearms and have never gotten around to firing it. It has no transfer bar and like yours have the correct hammer. But, I might just do that now after seeing your presentation. Ricky from IBM, Ret
Great to see content on the Schofield. Always wanted one so glad to see the Uberti still makes replica that can be a good option. Have to admit, that as interesting as blackpowder is, that I will likely will stick with smokeless.
not something I was even remotely aware of, but little bits of detail like this are worth so much when it comes to gun design in that era. Thanks for that bit of info Karl.
I have the 7 inch nickel Schofield and a few years ago, I tried loading it with 45 colt cartridges with pyrodex. It did the exact same thing that the black powder did with yours. It was jamming up by the second cylinder and couldn't fire the third without cleaning. Being as it is the nickel Schofield, it made it super easy to find every tiny bit of fouling to clean. Took a good hour to clean it up completely. I'll have to get some of that black horn, it seems like it would work a lot better.
Oh man, gonna have have to get one of these. Don't get me wrong, the SAA is my favorite gun of all time, but the Schofield is such a cool gun and deserves to not be so totally overshadowed by the Colt in that "iconic western revolver" space. Great that's it's in .45 LC, that makes the prospect of actually shooting it a lot way more viable.
Karl I LOVE this stuff! Some years ago my cousin brought one of these home, a beautiful firearm, I've enjoyed seeing them ever since. Thanks for this video, BP shooting is always a pleasure.
One of these has been on the list for quite some time, but I've kept my buying focus on stuff that would be included in a future AWB (if it ends up happening). Just snagged a Century AP5 for this reason God, I love old-school wheel guns, though. Keep up the great work, Karl
While I'm not a black powder shooter, I totally concur about your assessment of the Cimarron/Uberti Schofield. I have the standard length barrel model, and it is not only a fun shooter, it is absolutely beautiful to behold. As a long time owner of a Webley Mk. VI I was always touting that as my favorite revolver. Now I'm not so sure. The top break makes so much sense for a combat revolver.
That is an awesome camera angle! Watching the fouling drop out of the barrel at 10.23 gives a really good visualization. Sweet video and awesome comparison, I really thought the blackpowder was going to function fine.
I had a 1998 Uberti Schofield in 7.5", had no issues whatsoever, with a little polish on the sear the trigger was awesome, shot more precise than I could. Even after a few cylinders of black powder ammo (22gr Swiss #2 / 250gr LRN) it still ran fine. This gun had been imported to Germany by a well know distributor, maybe they did some quality control / clearance work.
@InRangeTV I'm not sure if it has an effect on it, but are you using proper black powder .45 bullets? According to Mike Believeau, there is a difference between 'modern' .45 Colt bullets and the ones made intended for black powder. The lube grove is much larger, and the type of lube used is very different. I'm not as experienced with BP loaded cartridges, as most of my BP shooting is just cap n ball. But I remember Mike specifically pointing this out on his video for loading some black powder cartridges. He says the difference between the fouling is huge, but he may have just been speaking specifically about the bore. Either way, I hope this was helpful. I like the pouch you are using for your ammo. Is that available or a one-off made for you?
Always wanted a Schofield, but being a broke college student when they were available, settled for an Armi San Marco SAA (terrible buy, it's still sitting in parts because the mainspring is weak, and the trigger broke after one hunting season.)
The reason S&W came up with the shorter cartridge was because they could add all of Major Schofield's improvements without actually having to make substantial changes to their existing Number 3 revolver design, which was in .44 S&W Russian. In order to chamber it in .45 Colt, they would have had to make the bottom frame longer, the top frame longer, and the cylinder longer - in other words, a whole new gun. I always assumed they made that choice because it would have cost too much to redesign the gun, so they just went with what they already had, enlarging the caliber to .45 and hoping that the army would accept it. But now it occurs to me that they didn't use his one-handed latch release on any other models; I wonder why not? Did they not think it was an actual improvement? Maybe S&W only made this gun at all as a favor to Major Schofield, and they didn't want to put any real money into somebody else's vanity project.
Looking at the difference in ejection in this video I think S&W went with the shorter length cartridge to get the empties to drop free more easily with the stroke they were able to design into the ejector mechanism.
@@christophernemeth421 - I've read it was about S&W wanting to sell ammo. Like the idea of a inkjet printer where the money is made on the ink not the printer.
great content - I love those top break revolvers. with the black powder, it seemed like it was fine through the first 6 shots, but immediately started binding upon reloading. i wonder if inserting the new cartridges forces fouling from the cylinder into the cone. a way to test it would be to shoot six in 45 Colt, and then reload in 45 Schofield....for science?
I had a pair of Schofields as my first cowboy guns, both were the Uberti 7.5-inch models. At the time the S&W reproes had just arrived on the market, and I had my choice if the two brands. After comparing the two I chose the Uberti's as better firearms and less expensive although I should have bought both given the price increase Smith's by collectors, but I did not have the right Power Ball lottery numbers at the time. I began to use black powder in my cowboy shooting and moved to a pair of USFA 44WCFs to go with my 1873 Uberti rifle.
Try installing a sintered bronze bushing instead of an o-ring. O-ring is very available for testing, but I think a bushing would be a better long term solution. I base this on how prevalent bushings are in industries that have similar problems (cordless drills, electric motors) that could use a bearing or o-ring, but do not.
Oilite bushings might help. A seal like a hydraulic cylinder wiper might be the way to stop fouling intrusion rather than a slight clearance bushing, except for potential heat deterioration.
@@randomidiot8142 Nice! That's probably a better functional suggestion, as it would remain smoother operating much longer. I see 300f is the max operation temp for the ones I was looking at, but there must be other solutions out there. I would love to test this, but alas, I do not have pistols, and no black powder...
@@skashed powder fouling rings on the cylinder pin, fluting the cylinder pin or splining the interior of the cylinder bore would likely be the best solutions that require the least maintenance and won't be prone to heat damage like oilite or wiper seals.
I really like these weapons from Uberti they are just so damn expensive and I have a 45 LC revolver at this time so I will continue to use modern LC ammo so I do not screw with the black powder except for my Navy Colt repro.
i've got an Uberti Schofield in .45LC. Had a minor issue with breaking it open-just took some break-in and lube. The reason I got one is my family has a history with this weapon. An outlaw, Joel Collins, taught Sam Bass how to rob stages, and engineered one of the largest train robberies in the 19th century. There is a family photograph where he is sporting a Schofield like Jesse James' photo. The historian in me thinks it was: A. he's a badass like Jesse, and B: he had the cash to own a Schofield (which were more expensive than a SA Colt at the time).
It’s funny that this should appear right now. I’m working on a character for a TTRPG (GURPS for anyone who cares) who uses a very custom S&W number 3 chambered for .44-40 in addition to some other kit. Nice to see something on this :)
Look up the 1st model Double Action Frontier. It is in .44/40 and first appeared around 1882, I believe. It is considered a variant of the number 3. I own one that was made in 1889 that has tight action. Nice crisp single action let off but the double action is a stiff trigger pull.
Karl, I have Uberti New Model #3 and I have never shot BP through it because of the gas ring issue. I'm glad you proved it correct. I just bought some Pyrodex, maybe I'll try a few rounds of it to see how it does.
I had a similar (though not as severe) issue. My cure has to put a thin coat of lithium grease on the arbor before I shoot BP. I can usually get through 8-10 cylinders before mine starts to slow up.
The early Schofield imports that had issues were manufactured by Armi San Marco and imported by Navy arms and Cimarron from what I can recall. They can be easily identified by the schofield 1st model release. I believe the Ubertis were good to go for the most part from the beginning. There is a hammer safety inside a lot of the Ubertis also. The trigger is much better with it "not there".
I picked up a cimarron schofield made by uberti about a month ago, absolutely love it its got the firing pin on the hammer but they did make a safety notch in the hammer that disconnects the trigger, if you pull the trigger in half cool it'll drop down into safety the only way to get the pin to hit primer is to pull the hammer all the way back and the trigger has to be held down. I really like it it's almost Baldwin proof
@@nickchavez720 interesting. These were handloads I picked up from my uncle and that may have had something to do with it. I did test them in my SAA before trying them in my friend's gun.
I believe I read somewhere that using that pink colored ball sealant/lube as one comes a cap and ball it helps one get more shots out of the Schofield using black powder.
One thing they do have is a hammer block safety for the firing pin to prevent the firing pin from making contact with the primer when partially cocked. Otherwise it is as stated, a very faithful replica and that's why I like it. I wanted to find one like yours, just a standard blued finish but ended up with a cobalt blue finish and case color hardened cylinder, sights, and trigger guard. It's certainly very pretty and I'm quite happy with it, easily one of my favorite revolvers.
The only bp substitute I have seen that is not corrosive as far as I can tell has been Alliant Black MZ. I have a 38 s&w that I load with it and the first time I tried them, the barrel, frame, and cylinder were caked with a white crusty powder after firing was completed. I left the revolver uncleaned for a week or more and then cleaned it and the powder came off very easily with just normal gun cleaners and there was no rust at all. And still isn't any rust even now.
I am a bit amazed that the Colt Single Action Army persisted as a military sidearm alongside the Schofield, which is demonstrably so much quicker to reload. The Schofield is a bit like a more ergonomic-looking Webley. I can only think that the issue of reloading was simply not a factor in military trials, because there were other (pretty clunky) loading-gate designs in Europe which persisted into WW1.
The military where fairly fixated on long range accuracy and did not want soldiers burning through ammo. An important consideration for a frontier army who's supplies had to travel over what was potentially hostile territory.
@@tomalong99 I also heard that the Colt SAA being a simpler gun with less parts due to not having a top break feature was also a reason, with the same justification. In the frontier, parts and maintenance would be a concern as well.
Timing repairs. They struggle to stay as well in time. The more you have to have gunsmiths fixing older revolvers, vs creating new ones. It's a pretty simple cost solution.
Apparently this video is more about the sunglasses than the gun, you can find them here:
www.historiceyewearcompany.com/
I was just about to comment on how awesome those sunglasses are!
damn, looks like I need new glasses
What about the shirt!? Wanted one since the Apache video!
When they inventively make a Matrix squeal that takes place in the wild west, Karl is ready!
To be fair and honest they are some nice frames.
Every time you put up one of these "by history nerds for history nerds" videos, I get so proud that I'm a patron. Thank you Karl, and please don't ever stop being you ❤
Same here. And what a nice looking pistol I want one.
Me three.
Me four
Wish we had more budget friendly modern top break revolvers. They're just so damn cool.
They are very cool but not very cost effective to make a good one
We used to, but they are considered Saturday night specials. And in the case of the mp412 rex, bill “Lewinsky lovin” Clinton happened. This is also why no USA KS23.
I wont lie I would buy one for no other reason than i found the break action revolver super cool. because i watched outlaw star and trigun as a kid.
@@baker90338 After becoming a massive fan of the fascinating Schofield I learned about the MP412 REX; I'm still crying to this day that we will never get the REX.
@@vogelfreiinderwuste4770 I’m pissed because he’s also the prick behind the AWB, but then again, bush senior did the sporting purpose clause, aka the “lol no scary gun imports” rule that gave us the famous Russian saiga and its unique sporterized stylings.
Yes, please feature this revolver more. There are videos of it here and there on YT but not enough in my opinion, I can find plenty of information on the Peacemaker though. I bought the 7.5" Schofield from Uberti chambered in .45 LC because the No.3 ended up being my favorite sidearm in Battlefield 1. It is very accurate in real life and the trigger throw on it is superb with a nice crisp break in my opinion. Things I would be interested in would be the average velocity of .45 LC if you could put it through a chronograph and its viability as a brush gun when deer hunting.
45 colt, 44 spl, and 44-40 are totally viable as medium game cartridges with 230-250 grain semi wadcutter or flatnose lead slugs at around 1000 fps. Excellent penetration, good bleed holes, and manageable recoil.
Have you got an older Smith to compare the trigger to? The biggest thing I worry about with these things is dropping all of that money on one and still wanting to rip it apart to try to clean up the action.
I still want a Model 3 of any kind and a SAA of any kind some day. I'll settle for my H&R 999 for now.
@@xb0xisbetter Sorry I don't have an older S&W. I have several 1911's and compared to my Glocks I would put the trigger break of the No.3 on par, if not as good as the 1911. While fundamentally different designs I was always on the hunt for a pistol that had the trigger break to match my 1911. On a side note though that cross bar they added for safety can get in the way sometimes and cause it to bind but that has only happened to me after putting multiple cylinders of Cowboy loads through it. I understand that can make a break a pistol for some but being able to own a 'New' piece of history makes up for it in my mind. I have no issue with any other functionality of the gun. On a side note as well and totally unrelated to the trigger, I found that you can fit 5 rounds on the 91/30 Mosin stripper, its like a cheap mans quick reload just drop the round in the cylinder and pull it off the clip.
@@RG1001 Interesting insights, thank you.
Even 1911 triggers can vary a lot though. Like I did a trigger job to the factor parts of my stupid Taurus PT1911 and I swear it is still worse than even factory triggers from other companies. Ironically, my Charles Daly turned out extremely light and crisp but I did put a different trigger altogether in that. My Metro Arms American Classic II's factory trigger was better than the PT1911 after a trigger job, and my Colt Combat Elite's is nice enough stock that I'm not going to bother.
I have some older Smith Model 66s, with the pinned barrel and recessed cylinder and I literally don't feel anything pulling that trigger with the hammer back.
I suppose they may not make .45 LC speed loader that fits the cylinder? Mosin strippers are an interesting idea.
I enjoy your videos because they offer a wide variety of well researched information presented well. I am a patron because I believe that the 2nd Amendment will be kept alive by people of diverse backgrounds and interests being introduced to firearms for various reasons and then becoming politically aware and active in fighting for their rights. You and your content bring those type of people into the fold. Keep up the good work.
Thank you very much for your kind words, your support and for being here!
Fantastic content. You set out to prove something, successfully did so, and then Modified the experiment.
TRUE
With the way you were dressed Karl, I could see you fitting right into Hunt:Showdown as a legendary hunter :)
Hunt:Showdown referenced in the first comment. It's going to be a good day. ;)
I'm waiting to load into a match watching this haha
hmmm, hmm hmm hmmmmm
Nothings better than good ol hunt spamdown
Exactly what I was thinking
I found the whole video educational and interesting, but also had a juvenile LOL at the line "Be careful what you're doing with your loads." 😁
and who you give them to...
Don't forget about experimenting with lube.
@@RaptorJesus always essential. Especially once one is over 40.
So sez the guy whose job occupation is "Breaking into buildings to test their security set-up"!
Awesome! The Schofield/Model 3 is my favourite revolver from the Old West. The break-open cylinder is a big advantage when reloading.
It also shows that coltists´ black propaganda about "inherent weakness" of top-breakers is just sh*t!
@@morriganmhor5078 Granted
Before industrial steel as we know it
It was iffier
But nowadays
Yeah you can beef it up enough for sure
Lord, just give me a modern top break in something like .38 so I don't have to sell my arm to buy one
@@morriganmhor5078 it's true though, it's an inherently weaker design
@@hyenaloaf1858 To your comment I could say only this: in the time of construction, the black powder .45 LC did have about 600 J muzzle energy, .45 Schofield 380-445 J and .455 Webley 287-490 J. It doesn´t look as much different.
I have done extensive blackpowder testing with my uberti schofield. I have gotten the best results using olde eynsford powder, it burns cleaner like the original blackpowder of the day. Coupled with an original style BP bullet like the Nei 454230 or lyman 454190, lube is home made 50/50 beeswax, crisco (no salt) in a Schofield case. This would average me around 775fps with good accuracy.
Regular Goex would bind after about 12-15 rounds where the olde eynsford would go 50 rounds before binding. A significant improvement, making range sessions much more enjoyable. This worked in my gun that has a fairly generous cylinder gap.
Just an FYi for those wanting to stay with the Holy Black.
I love your enthusiasm for this era. It's nice being able to watch cowboy gear, without fuddlore, from someone who honestly enjoys and is knowledgeable about black powder.
I have a theory that Schofield had army supply connections so they plotted togther with S&W. Intending to design that short knowing it would run out from being used out in colts too . The problem would force the army to drop the colts to standard Schofield shorts enabling the suppliers to corner the ammunition contract as well. Turns out the army kept the colt and dumped the Schofield instead. Big oops.
I figure if that was the plan, S&W would have designed a round that actually fit the Colt.
The .45 Schofield round was not a perfect replacement for .45 Colt because of the rim. A soldier loading their Colt SAA with .45 Schofield could only load three rounds, one for every other chamber, because the wide rims interfered with each other.
The M1887 Ball cartridge is the length of .45 Schofield but with a narrower rim than the original .45 Schofield, just so you could fully load a Colt SAA with the rounds.
Excellent video! I bought my Uberti schofield in .45LC last November and absolutely love it. Glad to know that we can run bp alternatives in them!
Blackhorn, yes. 777 and Pyrodex also seized.
Hey Karl, people in black powder groups did lol kinds of ‘testing’ with these and black powder. If you use shorter 45 schofield and especially 45 cowboy special, and grease up the ‘arbor’ you can get almost 50 shots through before the gun locks up from the fouling. Mine will only get maybe 1-2 cylinders with 45 colt, about 30-35 with 45 schofield and 40-50 with the cowboy special. The shorter brass, less powder and grease seem to be the ‘solution’. Great video!
Good point. I've found that to be true to the point that nearly all my .45 BP shooting is with Schofield cases. I always check to see if the cylinder will turn freely after shooting a cylinder-full. If not, it's easily removed, cleaned, and regreased. I'm still playing around on the best grease to use. Very few modern revolvers would handle BP well and the new Schofield is no different.
c
Dude, those glasses are RADICAL!
I load my own black powder 45 Colt cartridges and I can't fire more then 3 cylinders in my Pietta new model Army conversion, but I started loading my 45 Colt cartridges with bh209 black powder substitute and I don't have a problem with fauling anymore. I have shot 7 cylinders and no binding of the cylinder or action, and clean up is a lot easier too with the bh209.. now the bh209 is a little hotter than black powder so you don't want to load the same as black powder, bh209 cartridge loading chart says to weigh 23 grains of powder for 45 Colt.
Thanks for a great video. Love the revolver.
You are partially correct on the ammunition issue, I suggest you go to Cartridges of the World , by Frank C Barnes, the .45 colt ammunition had a larger rim then the .45 Schofield, they did issue the Schofield amnunituon to Troopers etc with Colt single Action Armies, the .45 Schofield Ammunition would on occasion would slide to far forward in the chambers, out of reach of the firing pin , so troopers would have to rattle their Colt Single Action armies so as to get the .45 Schofield Ammunition seated back into proper position, so in the end the developed a new Cartridge called the .45 Government, it was a .45 Colt case shortened to .45 Schofield length, issue resolved.
Modern .45 Schofield Ammuntion is infact .45 Government.
Remember casings of those days were balloon head cases, were modern cases are solid head cases, ballon cases also worked better from what I'm told with black powder.
Great video! Really shows what a big thing fouling was and the ways they had to take it into account. Also the little cleaning midway through reminds me of how sometimes you used spit to remedy some of the fouling when you were shooting BP lever guns!
I own a couple newer Uberti reproductions and I'm very impressed. I haven't shot my colt reproductions but I have shot my New Army extensively. After more than 500 rounds and multiple outings, I have had zero issues with it. I thoroughly clean my blackpowder equipment so I have had zero rust issues. I am very impressed... especially considering I purchased my Uberti New Army for 199.00 with free shipping.
Thanks Karl, I’ve always had a special place in my heart for the schofield, very cool to see such a nice reproduction
Glad you enjoyed it!
You did a great service. Well done. Very well done
Always love when you present historical guns. Its clear to see you have alot of fun presenting them and are quite passionate about the topic as well.
Very nice! You are quick on the single action one handed ops!!
This man went to a desert just to compliment the gun. Beautiful
I used "Big Lube" bullets and that helped a lot. Also there's fouling build up in the frame because the frame is not scalloped around the barrel trapping fouling in the frame and causing the cilinder to bind...
Thanks for the great content, looking forward to more great historical content. Always loved the Schofield.
More to come!
When using Pyrodex I found it needs cleaning with black powder protocol first then cleaning again with modern nitro solvent right after. Never had a problem with the "etching" other people complained about from Pyrodex.
For The Science! Great vid Brother....love your black powder series
To further drive home the point about monetized content. I am a fan of Dungeons & Dragons, Magic the Gathering, History, and the shooting sports. I am subscribed to dozens of channels on these topics on UA-cam. I have to manually check my favorite shooting sports and history UA-cam channels regardless of monetization status. Karl, if I had the cash to spare at this point in life, I would send a few shekels your way. Keep up the great work!
I absolutely love these videos covering older blackpowder guns!
I have an Uberti Colt Navy that I inherited from my father. I've been shooting with it for years. I absolute;y love it.
I have a Uberti Navy also. That is a fun revolver to shoot.
I have a Stoeger Schofield in 45 LC. I purchased it over 30 years ago and I have never fired it. I have many other firearms and have never gotten around to firing it. It has no transfer bar and like yours have the correct hammer.
But, I might just do that now after seeing your presentation.
Ricky from IBM, Ret
I thank you history nerds. Keep- it coming
A gunsmith told me a long time ago that S&W speedloaders WILL work on a Scholfield! Hopefully a poster here can try some out & post.
I appreciate the history along with practical information. Cool specs BTW!
Very interesting. Enjoyed the article.
Great to see content on the Schofield. Always wanted one so glad to see the Uberti still makes replica that can be a good option. Have to admit, that as interesting as blackpowder is, that I will likely will stick with smokeless.
Karl, your revolver's frame seems to be broken and your ejector rod is missing take care
Oh no!
Great video with a really unique topic. Love it.
not something I was even remotely aware of, but little bits of detail like this are worth so much when it comes to gun design in that era. Thanks for that bit of info Karl.
Im really looking forward to seeing more of this pistol. The Schofield is my favorite pistol design of all time.
That "oh yeah!" After shooting the 209 was smile invoking! 😃 Thanks Karl!
There's no such thing as "wasted ammo" on InRangeTV.
Probably when the powder cools in between cylinder refils, the powder sticks to itself and solidifies somewhat.
I have the 7 inch nickel Schofield and a few years ago, I tried loading it with 45 colt cartridges with pyrodex. It did the exact same thing that the black powder did with yours. It was jamming up by the second cylinder and couldn't fire the third without cleaning. Being as it is the nickel Schofield, it made it super easy to find every tiny bit of fouling to clean. Took a good hour to clean it up completely. I'll have to get some of that black horn, it seems like it would work a lot better.
Oh man, gonna have have to get one of these. Don't get me wrong, the SAA is my favorite gun of all time, but the Schofield is such a cool gun and deserves to not be so totally overshadowed by the Colt in that "iconic western revolver" space. Great that's it's in .45 LC, that makes the prospect of actually shooting it a lot way more viable.
Karl I LOVE this stuff! Some years ago my cousin brought one of these home, a beautiful firearm, I've enjoyed seeing them ever since. Thanks for this video, BP shooting is always a pleasure.
One of these has been on the list for quite some time, but I've kept my buying focus on stuff that would be included in a future AWB (if it ends up happening). Just snagged a Century AP5 for this reason
God, I love old-school wheel guns, though.
Keep up the great work, Karl
these shades go really well with the hat.
The should have lengthened the frame and just kept the gas seal.
Great video, glad to see how well it worked with the 209...
I have loooooong wanted a Schofield but they have always been just too expensive for me.
Imma get ma a dirty uberti
While I'm not a black powder shooter, I totally concur about your assessment of the Cimarron/Uberti Schofield. I have the standard length barrel model, and it is not only a fun shooter, it is absolutely beautiful to behold. As a long time owner of a Webley Mk. VI I was always touting that as my favorite revolver. Now I'm not so sure. The top break makes so much sense for a combat revolver.
I have been considering picking up one of these. This video gave me some food for thought. As always, love your work!
Awesome! Thank you!
That is an awesome camera angle! Watching the fouling drop out of the barrel at 10.23 gives a really good visualization. Sweet video and awesome comparison, I really thought the blackpowder was going to function fine.
NO MASTERS, NO GODS, NO OVERLORDS! MY NEW MONTRA
One of my all time favorite guns. Can’t wait to see more.
Awesome thanks for making this video
thanks for the Info Karl, I have been waiting for uberti to make a decent Schofield! I am so hype!
What I enjoy the most is the fast smooth single action operation. Between practice and the combo grip / hammer hook it feels as fast as double action
"We're just wasting ammo here"
You're not wasting it if you're having fun, Karl.
I love the Old West content!!! I hope more vignettes and black powder pistols and rifles videos are in the works!!!
I had a 1998 Uberti Schofield in 7.5", had no issues whatsoever, with a little polish on the sear the trigger was awesome, shot more precise than I could.
Even after a few cylinders of black powder ammo (22gr Swiss #2 / 250gr LRN) it still ran fine.
This gun had been imported to Germany by a well know distributor, maybe they did some quality control / clearance work.
Was it chambered for the Schofield cartridge and have the little gas seal ring?
@@MrCyphermonkey Uberti made them in .45LC only!
Here´s a vid of me shooting that ammo (too bad the mic only got the high frequencies):
ua-cam.com/video/CoDUetldCRo/v-deo.html
The Scofield is one of my favorite guns.
Great video. Thanks
@InRangeTV
I'm not sure if it has an effect on it, but are you using proper black powder .45 bullets? According to Mike Believeau, there is a difference between 'modern' .45 Colt bullets and the ones made intended for black powder. The lube grove is much larger, and the type of lube used is very different. I'm not as experienced with BP loaded cartridges, as most of my BP shooting is just cap n ball. But I remember Mike specifically pointing this out on his video for loading some black powder cartridges. He says the difference between the fouling is huge, but he may have just been speaking specifically about the bore. Either way, I hope this was helpful.
I like the pouch you are using for your ammo. Is that available or a one-off made for you?
Yes.
Man, your glasses are incredible and awsome
Always wanted a Schofield, but being a broke college student when they were available, settled for an Armi San Marco SAA (terrible buy, it's still sitting in parts because the mainspring is weak, and the trigger broke after one hunting season.)
Luckily, SAAs aren't too bad to work on. Parts are generally interchangeable, sorta, between companies. Sometimes.
I imagine this will eventually lead to to a duel between black powder revolvers against the spinner. Great content, as always.
"No masters, no gods, no overlords" indeed!
Always loved this revolver design - simple and effective
FYI: 5" barreled version was issued by Well Fargo to their agents for a short time. I like 'em!
The reason S&W came up with the shorter cartridge was because they could add all of Major Schofield's improvements without actually having to make substantial changes to their existing Number 3 revolver design, which was in .44 S&W Russian. In order to chamber it in .45 Colt, they would have had to make the bottom frame longer, the top frame longer, and the cylinder longer - in other words, a whole new gun.
I always assumed they made that choice because it would have cost too much to redesign the gun, so they just went with what they already had, enlarging the caliber to .45 and hoping that the army would accept it. But now it occurs to me that they didn't use his one-handed latch release on any other models; I wonder why not? Did they not think it was an actual improvement?
Maybe S&W only made this gun at all as a favor to Major Schofield, and they didn't want to put any real money into somebody else's vanity project.
Stupid S&W bean counters back in the day making that great gun in 45 Schofield instead of 45 Colt
Think it was marketing, forced the army to buy ammo from them and maybe get the army to drop Colt
@@demonprinces17 They dropped the 45 and basically stole the whole market for both the SW and Colt, so it worked.
Looking at the difference in ejection in this video I think S&W went with the shorter length cartridge to get the empties to drop free more easily with the stroke they were able to design into the ejector mechanism.
I thought part of it was not wanting to use a Colt cartridge in a S&W made handgun
@@christophernemeth421 - I've read it was about S&W wanting to sell ammo. Like the idea of a inkjet printer where the money is made on the ink not the printer.
great content - I love those top break revolvers. with the black powder, it seemed like it was fine through the first 6 shots, but immediately started binding upon reloading. i wonder if inserting the new cartridges forces fouling from the cylinder into the cone. a way to test it would be to shoot six in 45 Colt, and then reload in 45 Schofield....for science?
I had a pair of Schofields as my first cowboy guns, both were the Uberti 7.5-inch models. At the time the S&W reproes had just arrived on the market, and I had my choice if the two brands. After comparing the two I chose the Uberti's as better firearms and less expensive although I should have bought both given the price increase Smith's by collectors, but I did not have the right Power Ball lottery numbers at the time. I began to use black powder in my cowboy shooting and moved to a pair of USFA 44WCFs to go with my 1873 Uberti rifle.
elegant piece, karl.
good presentation as usual.
thanks from france.
Try installing a sintered bronze bushing instead of an o-ring. O-ring is very available for testing, but I think a bushing would be a better long term solution. I base this on how prevalent bushings are in industries that have similar problems (cordless drills, electric motors) that could use a bearing or o-ring, but do not.
Oilite bushings might help. A seal like a hydraulic cylinder wiper might be the way to stop fouling intrusion rather than a slight clearance bushing, except for potential heat deterioration.
@@randomidiot8142 Nice! That's probably a better functional suggestion, as it would remain smoother operating much longer. I see 300f is the max operation temp for the ones I was looking at, but there must be other solutions out there. I would love to test this, but alas, I do not have pistols, and no black powder...
@@skashed powder fouling rings on the cylinder pin, fluting the cylinder pin or splining the interior of the cylinder bore would likely be the best solutions that require the least maintenance and won't be prone to heat damage like oilite or wiper seals.
I needed a dose of science this morning. Thanks, Karl!
I really like these weapons from Uberti they are just so damn expensive and I have a 45 LC revolver at this time so I will continue to use modern LC ammo so I do not screw with the black powder except for my Navy Colt repro.
i've got an Uberti Schofield in .45LC. Had a minor issue with breaking it open-just took some break-in and lube. The reason I got one is my family has a history with this weapon. An outlaw, Joel Collins, taught Sam Bass how to rob stages, and engineered one of the largest train robberies in the 19th century. There is a family photograph where he is sporting a Schofield like Jesse James' photo. The historian in me thinks it was: A. he's a badass like Jesse, and B: he had the cash to own a Schofield (which were more expensive than a SA Colt at the time).
I like it! Great report on Uberti who produces the best, most accurate in design and manufacture. Black horn 209 is best, thanls
Love that barrel length.
It’s funny that this should appear right now. I’m working on a character for a TTRPG (GURPS for anyone who cares) who uses a very custom S&W number 3 chambered for .44-40 in addition to some other kit. Nice to see something on this :)
Look up the 1st model Double Action Frontier. It is in .44/40 and first appeared around 1882, I believe. It is considered a variant of the number 3. I own one that was made in 1889 that has tight action. Nice crisp single action let off but the double action is a stiff trigger pull.
Would Colt cap and ball style circle grooves on the cylinder pin fix this?
You need a Merwin Hubert with selective ejection. Too bad no one is making one, I'd love one with the skull crusher hilt.
Theoretically the S&W autoejector will retain unfired rounds, but that depends whether or not you're jostling around in a horse saddle.
Karl, I have Uberti New Model #3 and I have never shot BP through it because of the gas ring issue. I'm glad you proved it correct. I just bought some Pyrodex, maybe I'll try a few rounds of it to see how it does.
It won’t work. Specifically Blackhorn.
Love the Schofield revolver :) Beautiful gun.
I had a similar (though not as severe) issue. My cure has to put a thin coat of lithium grease on the arbor before I shoot BP. I can usually get through 8-10 cylinders before mine starts to slow up.
The early Schofield imports that had issues were manufactured by Armi San Marco and imported by Navy arms and Cimarron from what I can recall. They can be easily identified by the schofield 1st model release. I believe the Ubertis were good to go for the most part from the beginning. There is a hammer safety inside a lot of the Ubertis also. The trigger is much better with it "not there".
I picked up a cimarron schofield made by uberti about a month ago, absolutely love it its got the firing pin on the hammer but they did make a safety notch in the hammer that disconnects the trigger, if you pull the trigger in half cool it'll drop down into safety the only way to get the pin to hit primer is to pull the hammer all the way back and the trigger has to be held down. I really like it it's almost Baldwin proof
I love to see a video of u trying other black powder that’s meant to produce less fouling but sort of mimics black powder
Clearly you didn't watch the whole video before making this comment. :)
A buddy of mine has the 7" model and we found that we couldn't close the cylinder on semi wadcutters. Which was interesting.
Really. I've fired semi wad cutters from my schofield no issue. Strange
@@nickchavez720 interesting. These were handloads I picked up from my uncle and that may have had something to do with it. I did test them in my SAA before trying them in my friend's gun.
I believe I read somewhere that using that pink colored ball sealant/lube as one comes a cap and ball it helps one get more shots out of the Schofield using black powder.
One thing they do have is a hammer block safety for the firing pin to prevent the firing pin from making contact with the primer when partially cocked. Otherwise it is as stated, a very faithful replica and that's why I like it. I wanted to find one like yours, just a standard blued finish but ended up with a cobalt blue finish and case color hardened cylinder, sights, and trigger guard. It's certainly very pretty and I'm quite happy with it, easily one of my favorite revolvers.
The Uberti does not have a transfer bar.
@@InrangeTv Mine does.
@@InrangeTv And to clarify, I misspoke and meant to say hammer block safety.
The only bp substitute I have seen that is not corrosive as far as I can tell has been Alliant Black MZ. I have a 38 s&w that I load with it and the first time I tried them, the barrel, frame, and cylinder were caked with a white crusty powder after firing was completed. I left the revolver uncleaned for a week or more and then cleaned it and the powder came off very easily with just normal gun cleaners and there was no rust at all. And still isn't any rust even now.
I am a bit amazed that the Colt Single Action Army persisted as a military sidearm alongside the Schofield, which is demonstrably so much quicker to reload. The Schofield is a bit like a more ergonomic-looking Webley. I can only think that the issue of reloading was simply not a factor in military trials, because there were other (pretty clunky) loading-gate designs in Europe which persisted into WW1.
The military where fairly fixated on long range accuracy and did not want soldiers burning through ammo. An important consideration for a frontier army who's supplies had to travel over what was potentially hostile territory.
@@tomalong99 I also heard that the Colt SAA being a simpler gun with less parts due to not having a top break feature was also a reason, with the same justification. In the frontier, parts and maintenance would be a concern as well.
Oddly enough the sunglasses are timeless.
I can't tell if those glasses are from 1890, or 2090.
I will never understand why revolver makers stopped with the top break revolver. No its not structural integrity, stop saying that people!
Timing repairs. They struggle to stay as well in time. The more you have to have gunsmiths fixing older revolvers, vs creating new ones. It's a pretty simple cost solution.