Are there other ancient Realms civilizations that you're interested in? If so, do their histories inform your games now? Thank you to everyone on Discord and Patreon that requested this video! :}
Ed, I'm great fan of yours, travelling around the Realms for over a year now, diving deep (sometimes too deep) into all the lore. Would love to hear about MULHORAND from the true Realms Protector :)
As much as I’d love to hear more about the Imaskari, I’d really really love to hear about the Creator Races (especially the Sharuuk and Batrachi) and Spellweavers and what their civilisation was like before their spellforges blew up
I agree I can't believe it also he beats all the lore masters. Also I think as a writer he is a master equal to Howard Moorcock and forgive my blasphemy Tolken YES even him please have a good day 👍😊😊.
The best game I ever ran was a 3rd edition game where an enclave of Netherese decendants trapped in another dimension return to modern Faerun to reclaim their empire. It was so much fun.
@@samuelaraujomedeiros6682 it was accidental. Not everything lined up, but it was close enough. I bought the adventure I think you're talking about and worked it into my campaign.
The Netheril have been the center of my campaign for years. I've always wanted to publish it for others to experience but the fools in charge these days would crush that dream. Thank you, Ed. I love your world.
What I always made headcanon was that if the Netherese had access to magic this easily and ubiquitously, why wouldn't it become a major appeal to "permanently" transmute yourself into a more powerful being of your choice, like a celestial or an empyrean? I'd imagine shapechanging would be massively fashionable, at least in certain circles.
11:14 mission accomplished Ed. Netheril, it’s mystery, it’s fall, all this is central to my setting and the atmosphere of my campaign and has tie ins to many of my main and sun plot hooks. Year king campaign about halfway through.
I've always been interested in the relationship between ancestral mankind and ancestral elves. Would you do a video on the Dales Compact and Dalereckoning?
Like unearthing one of their cities and fixing its Mythal. I love the idea of a party not just being in charge of a keep but being the inaugural government of a city state they found
Ooooo Ed great video as always. The Netherese Empire is amazing and so are their characters. Will you ever do a deep dive on any of them, such as Larloch? He’s probably the coolest survivor and non-divine mage of DnD in my opinion.
Thank you Ed for taking the time to discuss the Forgotten Realms and the Nethereese. Awesome of you to take the time to review this online. Your contribution to the worlds we live and play in will live on as long as we have storytellers and games!
I restored my campaign just yesterday night and it's based on a mad elf warlock, survivor of Myth Drannor destruction, who believes himself being in charge of the birth of a new magical empire which the destruction of both Netheril and Myth Drannor have been the premise of...by will of his patron The Old One. Incredible to find this new video from Master Greenwood today on this topic. ❤
Also check out the Arcane Age line of sourcebooks and modules from AD&D. They go into great detail on Netheril and Cormanthyr at their height. These are all on DTRPG, so you can grab all of them quickly if you want.
As someone who has been primarily a Realms fan for the last 25 years, it'd really fun to get to hear one of the people who made that stuff for me to read. I'm also a big fan of wizards, and Nethetil, specifically, so even better! I think the most humorous part is that I tend to like FRCS, over say Greyhawk,because so much of it is filled in, and spelled out. Most of the areas arw mapped, and the communities on that map have at least a little bit of lore, so listing to Ed Greenwood talking about being intentionally vague, to leave room for DMs to feel, makes me chuckle.
9:41-10:01, I adore this summary by Netheril's creator. It's easy to look at a world like the Forgotten Realms, in all its scale from minutiae to grandeur, and say, "how could anyone ever come up with all this?" But it's exactly like this, you can start with an outline literally this vague, and brick by brick build an epic atop it. Hats off to Ed, one of our generation's greats
Mr. Greenwood.. Thank you. I remember buying the Forgotten realms boxed set a little after it came out. I've been playing since the early 80's and had no idea the rabbit hole you were about to take me down. What a wonderland it became. Then all the additional material like the Netharim kept coming out. I still prefer 2E but i bought new editions just to read the Forgotten realms lore. The Time of Troubles and all your other novels have kept me entertained for decades. Now I get to hear lore from Elminster's mouth! What an amazing time to be alive!
You're very welcome! I intend to go on serving up Realmslore for as long as I can! Fifty-five-odd years now, and still rolling. Soon the place will be half decent.
Hey Ed, huge fan of the Realms and your work. I wanted to know more about Augathra the Mad and the Naming of the Years. Another figure I want to see more info on is the Terraseer and how they influenced Netheril through the Nether Scrolls. I’m loving the videos and hope I can budget for a patreon sub later this year to see more info on the Realms.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS. Right now I'm making a whole campaign set in Halruaa and Netherese history is very much a huge aspect of it... I sure do hope a player of mine won't see this (probably will) but I hope there'll be a deep dive into the Far Realm too!
In Rime of the Frost Maiden there is a secret ending called the time of Chilled Marrow. It sends the player characters back in time to right before Ythrin, and by extension, the Netherse Empire fell. It’s really good to have some idea how to write a continuation of that adventure if the players happen to mess up that bad
I loved this video, thank you. :D Okay, brief story incoming. Netheril and specifically its downfall was a huge focus of my group's college campaign where the red wizards had started hunting the Chosen because magic was going wonky again. It all happened because near the start, our group unknowingly released the essence of Karsus by stumbling onto and completing the spell he failed to cast that killed his people. He ended up taking over magic (and wasn't too bad about it, ages of being locked away humbled him a little), but it left Mystra's chosen without their lifeline, and Thay capitalized on the opportunity. I am very much oversimplifying it, but that's the gist.
SO nice to read about folks playing with the powers and factions and easter eggs built into the Realms, to spin their own "if this, then this" campaigns. Thank you!
@@edgreenwoodofficial I know it takes a lot of your time but as you can see, so many of us love the Netherese storylines. Why not do a long-running series on just the Netherese? I know I'm stuck in 1371DR but man, that age was great!
No word about Karsus Folly? The single most famous spell in all of the Forgotten Realms? Would have loved to hear Ed's opinion on this piece of lore. Elaborate a little bit etc.
He vaguely referenced it by saying how it was intended to be open ended as to how they fell and that the people around had no idea what the cause was. My guess is that Karsus’ Folly wasn’t his idea but don’t quote me on that. Idk if I’d call Karsus’ Avatar the most famous spell, but rather an iconic lore moment in DnD history that shaped the limitations of magic to being up to 9th level spells.
@@BObako Totally, I thought with the older editions still having above 9th level spells, 3.5 epic handbook having rules for 10th level spells etc. all of those modern spell limitations stem not only from balacing the game I guess but also from Karsus Avatar lore wise hence why I think it is such an important moment in all of D&D. (And I was wondering if Ed was involved in the conception of it all)
I get the idea that Ed has so much to say he kinda gets lost in it all. You know, he mentions one thing, and that reminds him of another and then he follows that tangent for awhile, before returning to the first, then a 2nd tangent, then he misses a detail of the first, then go back for a detail of the second. The man has such an immense amount of knowledge cultivated over the years that I suspect it would be difficult to organize all his thoughts. Then there's the joy and excitement that comes from simply discussing these things which spurns his mind in one direction or another. And then as someone else mentioned, there are parts that he may not be directly involved in and instead of diving into that, he wants to remain in his own body of work and emphasize what he himself conceptualized or wrote. I've noticed for a lot of these videos, the details Ed shares can be a bit particular. Its always an interesting insight, but it's never the full picture. And that just comes down to the sheer amount of detail and content beyond what Ed did.
@@edgreenwoodofficialI was about to request something of this nature, having a primer of each deity as a taster for new to FR players to have a taste of each God's portfolio and personality would be really helpful.
Videos like this are so much fun in addition to being informative. Also reminds me how much I cribbed from Ed for my own homebrew setting. Netheril was a huge inspiration for (one of) the magical "center" of my setting, though they are still active, after a fashion (post-post-magical apocalypse). Floating archipelago, but not really flying cities. Still, heavily rooted in Ed's work!
An interesting idea would be going over the the many different empires that ruled throughout the history of the realms. Particularly the aboleth empire that predated the gods, the dragon empire, the mind flayer empire and how they fell. Another idea is the different cultures of dragons throughout the realms and how they affect everything around them.
A campaign set in the final days of Netheril before the Fall would be so cool. Maybe the players could even have an unwitting hand in it, being instrumental enough to tip it over the edge, but nobody surviving to remember/record their deeds
Hey gotta love the realms! Awesome to see your channel and recent videos. Could i ask for a video about gnomes? Always wanted to hear more about his wonderful magical race.
Surprised it wasn't mentioned that some Netherese turned to Shar and the shadow weave as Mystral died to save their city/magic. And that that city recently returned from the plane of shadow(shadow fell)
@Ed Greenwood I'd love to hear your opinion on Gale from baldursgate 3 if you've had any interaction. I honestly fell in love with the character after initially disliking him. His conversations led me to learning about the mystra and the netherese, and here we are!
Wonderful as always. I wish I could just do as the mind flayers do and slurp all of the lore from Mr. Greenwood's head directly into mine. For now I shall have to settle for these videos, but be warned! My experiments continue!
Hey Edminster! Been playing FR forever! Thanks for creating it all! And speaking of thanks, despite my actually paying attention to the entire credits (rare other than looking for after/mid-credits scenes), the D&D movie people totally fail to give you and Gygax any credit for having making the whole thing possible? It's like doing a Trek movie without even mentioning Roddenberry. Cheers o7. Oh and it turns out I've been pronoucing mythalar wrong all these years...ah well...
There's a lot of lore stuff on the Internet and a ton of D&D experts. But Mister Greenwood is THE master bard of them all you can't beet this channel he is the man thank you and have a good day 😊.
Thank you! I am "the" Realms expert, yes, as I've been creating it the longest. But I don't want to be an expert, I want to be a friendly guide and storyteller.
I was introduced to the Realms through an RPGA Raven's Bluff game. I don't believe much (if anything) was published about it after 2e. Thank you for everything, Great Sage!
I’d love to see a series of videos going over different parts of Netheril, their unique people, their view of the world and magic, and how they’re able to make such mythical magic items in the first place. The fact that even Dragons would kill for territories that have Netherese secrets tells you that even they respect their magical prowess, ingenuity and legacy as a form of power.
Appreciate this! learned new things about the Netherese! And the 2 cool Female Netherese! Thanks. Probably difficult to cover all but love hearing you talk about the Netheril.
Omg. How am I just now finding out you have a channel! This is amazing news. I can't believe you don't already have like 100k followers. The algorithm is failing miserably at its job.
Between this and reading the 2e PHB/DMG I can just constantly hear this back and forth of grognards, rules lawyers, and storytellers. The books read like "This is what you do or this or this third thing" then "You can change this BUT ITS THERE FOR A REASON" and "Yeah each table is unique do that you want and what works for you"
Thanks for the video. I do want to use some of the the things from the Arcane Age products for Netheril, in the Sea of Night. But I need to figure out the best way to us the Netherese.
I'm very interested in ancient Netherese magic, especially Sardra's Sequences. All of it I've run into is amazing and terrifying. My game world still allows for these ancient and powerful spells to still be cast, but they have been lost to time. Is there anywhere you have outlined Sardra's Sequences? Or any material/merch you have available for sale with these ancient Netherese spells?
You know who the coolest Netherese is, just in my totally unbiased opinion, Aumvor the Undying! That guys great! Bet someday he’ll take over the world from the shadows and restore magic as it should, huh?
I keep coming back to this. Partly because Netheril is one of my favourite sub-settings of Forgotten Realms, but also because I'm planning a tentative dip into DMing using a lot of Netherese elements. My first idea is a ghibli-esque exploration of the golden age from the perspective of traders, examining Netheril at its best and worst - with perhaps a side of danger as innocent people end up caught between the rivalry between two enclaves. My second idea is a gothic intrigue and heist themed adventure in Thultanthar prior to its return; where the party are looking to try and escape this lonely city in an ocean of night, and in order to do so have to navigate a society that is a tragic shadow of its former glory. Either way, I want the places and people to inspire the party's adventures just as much - or perhaps more than - the obvious hooks.
@@edgreenwoodofficial You know me. I've been fascinated for yrs with everything Netheril. The idea of "Sadra's Sequences" just hanging around for 1000s of yrs in a Netherese ruin has so many opportunities for traps & "skill challenges" for the PCs. And you get to bring back some of those out of print Netherese spells. Thanks for continuing to offer us great lore Ed.
Ed Greenwood is in the same caliber as Tolkien, Lewis, King, and Martin. But Greenwood let's the reader BE a player with a role, you don't have to be a passive observer in Greenwoods world - he invites us into it and lets us add our own anecdotes to his masterwork.
I've had an idea for a campaign setting where there are no gods. The player characters and a handful of others are the only people with magic and they're considered "gods" by the normal people. I think it would be cool if the background is that some of the Netheril got magically transported to a universe without God's or magic, and now are the only people in the universe who can use magic.
I recently played the shadows of undrentide module in neverwinter nights and once I realized we were heading for ancient netheril i lost it. Such an interesting place in the lore
A large number of spells from my old coveted 4 book Wizards Spell Compendium have been removed; Simbul's Spell Sequencer is just one of many many spells that used to exist in game, pulled from all the 2nd edition / Dragon Magazine sources. Mystra has removed some of the best magic from the multiverse in the last 25 years (although I'm sure her Chosen still could perform them).
Another question, Let's say a person is able to assassinate Lolth the way Mystryl was by Karsus. What would happen with or to the Demonweb? Would it simply cease to exist, would it continue as its own manifestation?
That’s a good question. In my opinion it could work. I think the reason that it didn’t work in Mystryl is that it was like trying to cast a spell that shuts off the thing powering the spell. I think if somebody cast it on Lolth and got the drop on them they’d have access to her portfolios of spiders and maybe fate (I think she lost that to the Raven Queen) for the duration of the spell.
@@cameronpearce5943 imo, if there is one deity that should not be it is Lolth. If left to grow she will eventually try to challenge even AO himself, she is avarice in god form feeding on a terrible source of power so vast that it can potentially enable her to eventually consume the most potent celestial entity. What ever person or creature that eventually assumes her portfolio would also feel the same curse by having the capacity to destroy everything. Spiders are the ultimate destroyers, even worse than serpents these monsters have the capability to create the end of days if left unchecked.
Running a campaign for the last three years where my group are collecting necessary components to raise Sakkor. They turned away from that and now have a netherese powered ship that they move around in.
I Quit D&D decades ago but still greatly enjoy listening to Ed talk about the Realms. Anyways, I thought the phaerimm were involved in the fall of Netheril. Did lore get changed over the years, or am I remembering it wrong?
Started a one player campaign with a friend that was new to the game. I sat him in front of the map of Faerun and he effectively spun the globe and plopped a finger down. What ensued and is still technically ongoing was an organic story that prequeled the return of the netherese from the shadowfel/shadow plane. Thultanthar attempted a seige on its shadow sister city of 4e Gloomwrought in a bid for a multi planar empire, an epic battle with airships and city factions and extraplanar armies vying for power and ascendancy across the planes. Now my adventurer is a demigod traversing space and time to find the baddies and bring balance and stability to the planes, or perhaps on the path to putting evil and chaos on the back foot forever.
From how Ed Greenwood described the mystery on Netheril's fall here, it doesn't sound like he was consulted (or at least didn't approve) when TSR/Wizards came up with the phaerimm, Karsus's Folly, and Mystryl's sacrifice as being the root cause of the fall of Netheril and the Netherese. I realize that the setting was gifted to TSR for the most part and the idea was for people to grow the setting in interesting ways, but it would have been nice that something that integral to the official canon of the world be something that he approved, or at least approved of.
In the Magic the Gathering Set Adventures in the Forgotten Realms there was a card called Evolving Wilds that had this picture of a floating tropical Island With the flavor text "Parts of Faerun still churn with the magic of arrogant Netherese archmages long dead." As a Dm do you know a place in the realms I could put an area like that? Or possibly one that already exists in the lore? (An unpopulated floating Netherese Wilderness)
Sure! There are some in Rethild (the Great Swamp) between Halruaa and Dambrath, some at the north end of the Lapal Sea, at least one at the northwestern end of the Lake of Mists, and quite a few in Sempharwater, west of Iliphanar.
I have played d&d since I was 12 if it wasn't for Ed his writing books and games I would never have over come my disability dyslexia to learn to read....... now I shere this hole experience with my daughter and her friends....... its fun as hell when her and her friends tell me how it is ..... me nope here is the books from back in the day ... oh I have a caricatur from the zenitherom here he is ...... yes he's kinda a bad guy ..... 😂 ... watching them look on with 😮 realy dad you did all this wow
Wait wait, that dragon reproduction conversation. Can we get to that? I would love to hear Ed just tell us wild stories from TSR and designers touching different stuff.
Could you provide more information about the Nether Scrolls? I recall reading that one of their powers is, 'Reading even one Nether Scroll offers considerable insight into the Art. Any character studying one immediately gains one level in an arcane spellcasting class of their choice.' Is this how they function in the lore, and could it be one of the reasons the Netheril had so many high-level wizards, or is it just a game mechanic?
I will deal with the Nether Scrolls in a future video (but it may be months before I get there). Much is misunderstood about them, due to fragmentary lore.
The way I look at Netheril at least mentally when it comes to themes: it feels sort of like Conan the Barbarian vibe going by all those old artworks for the regular/heroic people populated with scary artefacts (which mind you, only work nearby their huge cities), only the strongest survive on the surface, but there's a lot of "ancient Atlantean" vibes where these big floating cities and snooty dudes are dictating what's the best course to do things while embracing hedonism, arts, magic experimentation and metaphysics (manipulation of form, the perception of aesthetics). Most experiments fail, but the ones that stick become added as legends worthy of remembering to the Netherese. Karsus' managed to make a great many of these stick to build up his reputation/is one that wants godhood which others saw as beyond their reach to do, so going after godhood was his self expression and manifest destiny (plus the ultimate power to deal with the surface threats). There's a lot of leeway in an ancient Netheril campaign to make absurdly powerful artefacts and play it like a Conan campaign clocked to 11, given at the time there's a lich empire taking over the surface and the Phaerimm at their height. Speaking of the Lichlord who ran this ancient undead empire, a lot of Netherese rulers were embracing lichdom including Karsus, which would be an interesting angle to go after. Many are surrendering to undeath when previously I'd imagine it'd be seen as abhorrent, or perhaps they were unable to reach lichdom previously before the fall. What/who gave them the knowledge to do this? Etc. So kinda like Netheril is Atlantis (coupled with its dramatic fall, punished by the gods mythologically with parallels to Karsus), D&D3E Sword Coast is the Middle Ages, and D&D5E plays more with going into the Enlightenment themes, at least how I look at it :P
The largest church of Mystra was in Halruua. I read where their diviners divined the results of the spellplague. So my question is.. If Mystra gave the info of spellplague to her diviners then why didn't she do anything to stop it? E.g. seeing her own assassination at the hands of Cyric & Shar.
Because it was necessary, for her goal of greater proliferation of magic (ultimately, every creature using it). Mystra has sacrificed herself before, and will again.
@@edgreenwoodofficial Thanks for replying Ed! We're basing our playtest for this adventure series (hopefully produced thru DMs Guild) on the fact that throughout history Mystryl/Mystra has planted timeseeds that allow the PCs to be involved in her plan and hopefully avoid Spellplague. We think we have a great angle for those players who didn't like Spellplague while at the same time create a great storyline for DMs. Btw.. Sardra! Ed.. please tell us more.
@@edgreenwoodofficial Thank you so much! I'm playing a Sorceress/Warlock with a pact to Karsus, and the plan is to swap pacts to Mystra and try to make a mythal. I'd love to hear anything about mythalmaking!
I've already integrated Sardra into my current campaign as the "better HALF" of Rhaugilath's cousin Iam Relequill (who saved some residents of ancient Seventon). Rhaugilath gave the secret of Lichdom to Iam so he could preserve a library of Netherese knowledge. Sardra & Iam right after the fall created the last known mythallar that moved 2 towns of Seventon to a hidden valley in the high ice. It's a story of lost loves, kidnapped fathers & lost ancient Netherese towns. Let's hope that mystra was successful in hiding her time seeds from Ao. 😉
The campaign I'm running is set in ancient Netheril, just before the Fall. My players contend with minions of Karsus who are gathering spell components for Avatar - though my players don't know that (they only know that they're wicked) - and so are unknowingly working to prevent the Fall. When the time comes and they realize what they're doing, they'll have to decide whether to prevent the Fall - and thereby save everyone they've come to know over the course of the campaign - or allow it to happen in order to destroy the many immortal tyrants they've encountered. Is it better to save good, or destroy evil? The work they do now will help them alleviate the negative effects of either choice. Their mysterious patron is Lady Arilain (a powerful diviner briefly mentioned in the Netheril box set) who has seen smoky visions involving the Fall. She works to unseat the tyrannical archwizards, who she knows are involved somehow, and are evil in any case.
loving these videos @ed greenwood but i had a question...what is your opinion on wotc saying pre 5E is not canonical to the game. i found this very odd stance to take considering most lore came from 2E products and were updated as things went. also what is your opinion on the novels being made non canonical as they are some of the best work based in the realms. if you cant answer this i understand nda etc that you may have to keep up. Thanks either way
Are there other ancient Realms civilizations that you're interested in? If so, do their histories inform your games now? Thank you to everyone on Discord and Patreon that requested this video! :}
Isn't much to add but Jhaamdath
Ed, I'm great fan of yours, travelling around the Realms for over a year now, diving deep (sometimes too deep) into all the lore. Would love to hear about MULHORAND from the true Realms Protector :)
As much as I’d love to hear more about the Imaskari, I’d really really love to hear about the Creator Races (especially the Sharuuk and Batrachi) and Spellweavers and what their civilisation was like before their spellforges blew up
Honestly I'm running a game right now and would love to hear more about cities like Luskan and Silverymoon
Anything on the interaction, if any, between the different continents of Toril?
I can’t believe Ed Greenwood is on UA-cam. What an amazing gift.
Truly, man.
💯 agreement.
I agree I can't believe it also he beats all the lore masters. Also I think as a writer he is a master equal to Howard Moorcock and forgive my blasphemy Tolken YES even him please have a good day 👍😊😊.
@@DeanNatheos-i2t can you imagine Ed and Moorcock and maybe Alan Moore on a panel some day?!
I met him as a child years ago when I still lived in Ontario. His beard is as magnificent as I remember.
The best game I ever ran was a 3rd edition game where an enclave of Netherese decendants trapped in another dimension return to modern Faerun to reclaim their empire. It was so much fun.
Do you mean the Shade Enclave?
So you accidentaly predicted the Shadovar? Or was that after they were released?
@@samuelaraujomedeiros6682 it was accidental. Not everything lined up, but it was close enough. I bought the adventure I think you're talking about and worked it into my campaign.
Sounds like the plot of Superman 2.
The Netheril have been the center of my campaign for years. I've always wanted to publish it for others to experience but the fools in charge these days would crush that dream. Thank you, Ed. I love your world.
What I always made headcanon was that if the Netherese had access to magic this easily and ubiquitously, why wouldn't it become a major appeal to "permanently" transmute yourself into a more powerful being of your choice, like a celestial or an empyrean? I'd imagine shapechanging would be massively fashionable, at least in certain circles.
Heh. You are teetering on the brink of a huge NDA and Realms secret.
Ikr? Especially with shapechanging into dragons is the thing "optimised" wizards do the moment they hit lvl17.
...or coming up with their own, unique forms. I imagine the winged elves were a result of something like that
11:14 mission accomplished Ed. Netheril, it’s mystery, it’s fall, all this is central to my setting and the atmosphere of my campaign and has tie ins to many of my main and sun plot hooks. Year king campaign about halfway through.
I've always been interested in the relationship between ancestral mankind and ancestral elves. Would you do a video on the Dales Compact and Dalereckoning?
I'll make sure it gets added to the list!
YES!!! This is the video I've been waiting for! So much potential for Netherese magic in high level campaigns!
Like unearthing one of their cities and fixing its Mythal. I love the idea of a party not just being in charge of a keep but being the inaugural government of a city state they found
This talks feel like a God answering to mortal been questions because he just realize how much fun he can get out of it. Praise to The GreenGod.
Can you make a lore video about Eilistraee and good drow/dark elf civilizations?
I’d love to hear more about the Crown Wars and how the Sun Elves and Coralon by far are more evil than Lolth and the Drow (posted by not-a-Drow)
Eilistraee was one of my favorite powers amongst the setting, only Ilmater and/or Tyr being favored above them when running a cleric or paladin in FR.
This is a lovely Idea. I'll be sure it gets added to the list!
Ooooo Ed great video as always. The Netherese Empire is amazing and so are their characters.
Will you ever do a deep dive on any of them, such as Larloch? He’s probably the coolest survivor and non-divine mage of DnD in my opinion.
I would love to! I'll run it past Ivan so he can get it scheduled for a future recording session.
@@edgreenwoodofficial Oh wow! Thanks Ed! I look forward to seeing more secrets of the Netherese.
Larloch is one of my favorite archmages!
Thank you Ed for taking the time to discuss the Forgotten Realms and the Nethereese. Awesome of you to take the time to review this online. Your contribution to the worlds we live and play in will live on
as long as we have storytellers and games!
You should've done something like this years ago. These are great videos. Keep them rolling. 🎉
I agree, I should have, but was too tech-inept and WAY too busy. You can talk about creating the world, or...you can create the world. ;}
I restored my campaign just yesterday night and it's based on a mad elf warlock, survivor of Myth Drannor destruction, who believes himself being in charge of the birth of a new magical empire which the destruction of both Netheril and Myth Drannor have been the premise of...by will of his patron The Old One. Incredible to find this new video from Master Greenwood today on this topic. ❤
It's meant to be! ;}
Also check out the Arcane Age line of sourcebooks and modules from AD&D. They go into great detail on Netheril and Cormanthyr at their height. These are all on DTRPG, so you can grab all of them quickly if you want.
Whoohoo more Elminster!! Ed you are my hero ( 51 years old I am :) )
As someone who has been primarily a Realms fan for the last 25 years, it'd really fun to get to hear one of the people who made that stuff for me to read. I'm also a big fan of wizards, and Nethetil, specifically, so even better! I think the most humorous part is that I tend to like FRCS, over say Greyhawk,because so much of it is filled in, and spelled out. Most of the areas arw mapped, and the communities on that map have at least a little bit of lore, so listing to Ed Greenwood talking about being intentionally vague, to leave room for DMs to feel, makes me chuckle.
I just got into the world of D&D and I’m so glad that I found this channel. You are doing the gods work here
I have been a nerd since the 80s how did I not know about Ed Greenwood?? This man is incredible! He talk about the world as if he grew up there ❤
9:41-10:01, I adore this summary by Netheril's creator. It's easy to look at a world like the Forgotten Realms, in all its scale from minutiae to grandeur, and say, "how could anyone ever come up with all this?"
But it's exactly like this, you can start with an outline literally this vague, and brick by brick build an epic atop it. Hats off to Ed, one of our generation's greats
Mr. Greenwood.. Thank you. I remember buying the Forgotten realms boxed set a little after it came out. I've been playing since the early 80's and had no idea the rabbit hole you were about to take me down. What a wonderland it became. Then all the additional material like the Netharim kept coming out. I still prefer 2E but i bought new editions just to read the Forgotten realms lore. The Time of Troubles and all your other novels have kept me entertained for decades. Now I get to hear lore from Elminster's mouth! What an amazing time to be alive!
You're very welcome! I intend to go on serving up Realmslore for as long as I can! Fifty-five-odd years now, and still rolling. Soon the place will be half decent.
Hey Ed, huge fan of the Realms and your work. I wanted to know more about Augathra the Mad and the Naming of the Years. Another figure I want to see more info on is the Terraseer and how they influenced Netheril through the Nether Scrolls. I’m loving the videos and hope I can budget for a patreon sub later this year to see more info on the Realms.
Both of those topics have been added to the big ideas hopper. '}
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS. Right now I'm making a whole campaign set in Halruaa and Netherese history is very much a huge aspect of it... I sure do hope a player of mine won't see this (probably will) but I hope there'll be a deep dive into the Far Realm too!
In Rime of the Frost Maiden there is a secret ending called the time of Chilled Marrow. It sends the player characters back in time to right before Ythrin, and by extension, the Netherse Empire fell. It’s really good to have some idea how to write a continuation of that adventure if the players happen to mess up that bad
I loved this video, thank you. :D Okay, brief story incoming.
Netheril and specifically its downfall was a huge focus of my group's college campaign where the red wizards had started hunting the Chosen because magic was going wonky again. It all happened because near the start, our group unknowingly released the essence of Karsus by stumbling onto and completing the spell he failed to cast that killed his people. He ended up taking over magic (and wasn't too bad about it, ages of being locked away humbled him a little), but it left Mystra's chosen without their lifeline, and Thay capitalized on the opportunity. I am very much oversimplifying it, but that's the gist.
SO nice to read about folks playing with the powers and factions and easter eggs built into the Realms, to spin their own "if this, then this" campaigns. Thank you!
@@edgreenwoodofficial I know it takes a lot of your time but as you can see, so many of us love the Netherese storylines. Why not do a long-running series on just the Netherese? I know I'm stuck in 1371DR but man, that age was great!
No word about Karsus Folly? The single most famous spell in all of the Forgotten Realms? Would have loved to hear Ed's opinion on this piece of lore. Elaborate a little bit etc.
He vaguely referenced it by saying how it was intended to be open ended as to how they fell and that the people around had no idea what the cause was. My guess is that Karsus’ Folly wasn’t his idea but don’t quote me on that.
Idk if I’d call Karsus’ Avatar the most famous spell, but rather an iconic lore moment in DnD history that shaped the limitations of magic to being up to 9th level spells.
@@BObako Totally, I thought with the older editions still having above 9th level spells, 3.5 epic handbook having rules for 10th level spells etc. all of those modern spell limitations stem not only from balacing the game I guess but also from Karsus Avatar lore wise hence why I think it is such an important moment in all of D&D. (And I was wondering if Ed was involved in the conception of it all)
I get the idea that Ed has so much to say he kinda gets lost in it all. You know, he mentions one thing, and that reminds him of another and then he follows that tangent for awhile, before returning to the first, then a 2nd tangent, then he misses a detail of the first, then go back for a detail of the second. The man has such an immense amount of knowledge cultivated over the years that I suspect it would be difficult to organize all his thoughts. Then there's the joy and excitement that comes from simply discussing these things which spurns his mind in one direction or another. And then as someone else mentioned, there are parts that he may not be directly involved in and instead of diving into that, he wants to remain in his own body of work and emphasize what he himself conceptualized or wrote. I've noticed for a lot of these videos, the details Ed shares can be a bit particular. Its always an interesting insight, but it's never the full picture. And that just comes down to the sheer amount of detail and content beyond what Ed did.
A word or two, insomuch as he created that lore. He said other creators filled in the holes he (intentionally) left
Hey Sr. Greenwood, can you tell more about Lord AO?
I think a series on Realms deities would be a great idea. I'll start thinking about how to get that going!
@@edgreenwoodofficialI was about to request something of this nature, having a primer of each deity as a taster for new to FR players to have a taste of each God's portfolio and personality would be really helpful.
Great job, Mr. Greenwood! Thanks for letting me do “whatever” I want!!
Sardra's Sequences reminds me of Earthdawn's magic system. Mmmm delicious memory there. Thank you Ed, for everything.
Videos like this are so much fun in addition to being informative. Also reminds me how much I cribbed from Ed for my own homebrew setting. Netheril was a huge inspiration for (one of) the magical "center" of my setting, though they are still active, after a fashion (post-post-magical apocalypse). Floating archipelago, but not really flying cities. Still, heavily rooted in Ed's work!
An interesting idea would be going over the the many different empires that ruled throughout the history of the realms. Particularly the aboleth empire that predated the gods, the dragon empire, the mind flayer empire and how they fell.
Another idea is the different cultures of dragons throughout the realms and how they affect everything around them.
The dragon empire was so short lived only it existed for one generation. The elves destroyed it with a terrible curse that dragons still suffer.
A campaign set in the final days of Netheril before the Fall would be so cool.
Maybe the players could even have an unwitting hand in it, being instrumental enough to tip it over the edge, but nobody surviving to remember/record their deeds
Already done. See the Arcane Age line of products for AD&D. I remember them fondly. And they're all on DTRPG.
@@jrytacct Thanks! I'll be sure to check them out 😁👍
The Netheril Empire is my favorite part of the Realm's history.
Hey gotta love the realms! Awesome to see your channel and recent videos. Could i ask for a video about gnomes? Always wanted to hear more about his wonderful magical race.
Gnomes are in the hopper!
@@edgreenwoodofficial Praise Garl?
Surprised it wasn't mentioned that some Netherese turned to Shar and the shadow weave as Mystral died to save their city/magic. And that that city recently returned from the plane of shadow(shadow fell)
Not mentioned because Netheril is a huge topic and this was really an "introduction to." We could talk about the Netherese for DAYS.
@Ed Greenwood I'd love to hear your opinion on Gale from baldursgate 3 if you've had any interaction.
I honestly fell in love with the character after initially disliking him. His conversations led me to learning about the mystra and the netherese, and here we are!
@@edgreenwoodofficial I for one would be happy to listen to that for days...
@@jarrodbright5231
Me three.
that was one city and they were doing Shadow Magic before Karsus' Folly.
Wonderful as always. I wish I could just do as the mind flayers do and slurp all of the lore from Mr. Greenwood's head directly into mine. For now I shall have to settle for these videos, but be warned! My experiments continue!
Oh, is THAT where the tentacle trails came from?
Yet again a wonderful video thank you master Greenwood and have a good day 😊😊😊.
Good morning and greetings from Germany!
I love these videos. I would love to see Ed do a deep dive into the entire 2E Undermountain box set.
Hey Edminster! Been playing FR forever! Thanks for creating it all! And speaking of thanks, despite my actually paying attention to the entire credits (rare other than looking for after/mid-credits scenes), the D&D movie people totally fail to give you and Gygax any credit for having making the whole thing possible? It's like doing a Trek movie without even mentioning Roddenberry. Cheers o7. Oh and it turns out I've been pronoucing mythalar wrong all these years...ah well...
There's a lot of lore stuff on the Internet and a ton of D&D experts. But Mister Greenwood is THE master bard of them all you can't beet this channel he is the man thank you and have a good day 😊.
Thank you! I am "the" Realms expert, yes, as I've been creating it the longest. But I don't want to be an expert, I want to be a friendly guide and storyteller.
I was introduced to the Realms through an RPGA Raven's Bluff game. I don't believe much (if anything) was published about it after 2e.
Thank you for everything, Great Sage!
I’d love to see a series of videos going over different parts of Netheril, their unique people, their view of the world and magic, and how they’re able to make such mythical magic items in the first place.
The fact that even Dragons would kill for territories that have Netherese secrets tells you that even they respect their magical prowess, ingenuity and legacy as a form of power.
Appreciate this! learned new things about the Netherese! And the 2 cool Female Netherese! Thanks. Probably difficult to cover all but love hearing you talk about the Netheril.
Omg. How am I just now finding out you have a channel! This is amazing news. I can't believe you don't already have like 100k followers. The algorithm is failing miserably at its job.
Thank you so much! I'm so glad you're enjoying the videos, because I so enjoy making them. :}
I have always had a curiosity with ancient Imaskar.
You'll hear a tiny bit more about Imaskar in an upcoming video, and then a little more in another one, and so on. We're creeping up on them!
I love the strings on the bass
Nice one! A proper Elminster video would be great!!
Between this and reading the 2e PHB/DMG I can just constantly hear this back and forth of grognards, rules lawyers, and storytellers. The books read like "This is what you do or this or this third thing" then "You can change this BUT ITS THERE FOR A REASON" and "Yeah each table is unique do that you want and what works for you"
Thanks for the video. I do want to use some of the the things from the Arcane Age products for Netheril, in the Sea of Night. But I need to figure out the best way to us the Netherese.
Love this!
I'm very interested in ancient Netherese magic, especially Sardra's Sequences. All of it I've run into is amazing and terrifying.
My game world still allows for these ancient and powerful spells to still be cast, but they have been lost to time.
Is there anywhere you have outlined Sardra's Sequences? Or any material/merch you have available for sale with these ancient Netherese spells?
You know who the coolest Netherese is, just in my totally unbiased opinion, Aumvor the Undying! That guys great! Bet someday he’ll take over the world from the shadows and restore magic as it should, huh?
Aumvor the Undying is my warlock patron! He's the best, and I'd love to see him get some 5e love.
I keep coming back to this. Partly because Netheril is one of my favourite sub-settings of Forgotten Realms, but also because I'm planning a tentative dip into DMing using a lot of Netherese elements. My first idea is a ghibli-esque exploration of the golden age from the perspective of traders, examining Netheril at its best and worst - with perhaps a side of danger as innocent people end up caught between the rivalry between two enclaves. My second idea is a gothic intrigue and heist themed adventure in Thultanthar prior to its return; where the party are looking to try and escape this lonely city in an ocean of night, and in order to do so have to navigate a society that is a tragic shadow of its former glory. Either way, I want the places and people to inspire the party's adventures just as much - or perhaps more than - the obvious hooks.
Thanks edd really appreciate your perspective
Love the videos! Left a like!
I want go know more about Sardra Ed. She imo epitomizes the "details" that you've always put into the Realms. Also, her "chaining"
Sardra's going to get more lore coverage in time to come. SO many things on the "to cover" list...
@@edgreenwoodofficial You know me. I've been fascinated for yrs with everything Netheril. The idea of "Sadra's Sequences" just hanging around for 1000s of yrs in a Netherese ruin has so many opportunities for traps & "skill challenges" for the PCs. And you get to bring back some of those out of print Netherese spells. Thanks for continuing to offer us great lore Ed.
Thanks for the great lore as always!
Does anyone know where I can learn more about the person named Sardra or the magic effects that he is talking about starting at 16:25?
very cool to learn this lore directly from the source !
Hey Ed, what do you think of Waterdeep and other parts of Forgotten Realms becoming part of the new DMG coming out next year?
Ed Greenwood is in the same caliber as Tolkien, Lewis, King, and Martin. But Greenwood let's the reader BE a player with a role, you don't have to be a passive observer in Greenwoods world - he invites us into it and lets us add our own anecdotes to his masterwork.
I really like the idea of the netherese because of how applicable they are for explaining any ancient civilization in any custom setting.
I've had an idea for a campaign setting where there are no gods. The player characters and a handful of others are the only people with magic and they're considered "gods" by the normal people. I think it would be cool if the background is that some of the Netheril got magically transported to a universe without God's or magic, and now are the only people in the universe who can use magic.
I'm reading a book that is set during that time period, "Dangerous Games" of the Netheril Trilogy written by Clayton Emery.
Interesting ideas thanks for the video
I'll also add that I have found Denning's books on the return of Thultanthar fun reading (but I find all FR books fun reading).
Bravo!
I would love a video about Kara Tur.
Such a cool concept with a bery different feel from the Sword Coast
I recently played the shadows of undrentide module in neverwinter nights and once I realized we were heading for ancient netheril i lost it. Such an interesting place in the lore
A large number of spells from my old coveted 4 book Wizards Spell Compendium have been removed; Simbul's Spell Sequencer is just one of many many spells that used to exist in game, pulled from all the 2nd edition / Dragon Magazine sources. Mystra has removed some of the best magic from the multiverse in the last 25 years (although I'm sure her Chosen still could perform them).
Kitty Shadow at 19:03 on left hand side.
Another question, Let's say a person is able to assassinate Lolth the way Mystryl was by Karsus. What would happen with or to the Demonweb? Would it simply cease to exist, would it continue as its own manifestation?
That’s a good question. In my opinion it could work. I think the reason that it didn’t work in Mystryl is that it was like trying to cast a spell that shuts off the thing powering the spell. I think if somebody cast it on Lolth and got the drop on them they’d have access to her portfolios of spiders and maybe fate (I think she lost that to the Raven Queen) for the duration of the spell.
@@cameronpearce5943 imo, if there is one deity that should not be it is Lolth. If left to grow she will eventually try to challenge even AO himself, she is avarice in god form feeding on a terrible source of power so vast that it can potentially enable her to eventually consume the most potent celestial entity. What ever person or creature that eventually assumes her portfolio would also feel the same curse by having the capacity to destroy everything. Spiders are the ultimate destroyers, even worse than serpents these monsters have the capability to create the end of days if left unchecked.
In some lore the demonweb pit existed before Loth was sent to the Abyss. So it would likely end up with some other power based there
I bought the box set a while ago. So epic. I ran a game a while ago with netheril as the setting.
Another awesome episode 👍🏼👍🏼💯
Running a campaign for the last three years where my group are collecting necessary components to raise Sakkor. They turned away from that and now have a netherese powered ship that they move around in.
I'd love to see someone restore karsus.
I Quit D&D decades ago but still greatly enjoy listening to Ed talk about the Realms. Anyways, I thought the phaerimm were involved in the fall of Netheril. Did lore get changed over the years, or am I remembering it wrong?
Started a one player campaign with a friend that was new to the game. I sat him in front of the map of Faerun and he effectively spun the globe and plopped a finger down. What ensued and is still technically ongoing was an organic story that prequeled the return of the netherese from the shadowfel/shadow plane. Thultanthar attempted a seige on its shadow sister city of 4e Gloomwrought in a bid for a multi planar empire, an epic battle with airships and city factions and extraplanar armies vying for power and ascendancy across the planes. Now my adventurer is a demigod traversing space and time to find the baddies and bring balance and stability to the planes, or perhaps on the path to putting evil and chaos on the back foot forever.
My favorite ancient forgotten realms empire.
From how Ed Greenwood described the mystery on Netheril's fall here, it doesn't sound like he was consulted (or at least didn't approve) when TSR/Wizards came up with the phaerimm, Karsus's Folly, and Mystryl's sacrifice as being the root cause of the fall of Netheril and the Netherese. I realize that the setting was gifted to TSR for the most part and the idea was for people to grow the setting in interesting ways, but it would have been nice that something that integral to the official canon of the world be something that he approved, or at least approved of.
this man should speak more about forgotten realms... he is living tolkien!
In the Magic the Gathering Set Adventures in the Forgotten Realms there was a card called Evolving Wilds that had this picture of a floating tropical Island With the flavor text "Parts of Faerun still churn with the magic of arrogant Netherese archmages long dead." As a Dm do you know a place in the realms I could put an area like that? Or possibly one that already exists in the lore? (An unpopulated floating Netherese Wilderness)
Sure! There are some in Rethild (the Great Swamp) between Halruaa and Dambrath, some at the north end of the Lapal Sea, at least one at the northwestern end of the Lake of Mists, and quite a few in Sempharwater, west of Iliphanar.
@@edgreenwoodofficial Wow so many? Thanks!
I like the T-shirts behind you. Where do we find them?
We just launched a new shop at edgreenwood.myshopify.com/ !
A Gulliver's Travels themed campaign set in Netheril would be so fun.
🧙♂️
0:24 because of the IRL hundreds of thousands years of lost human history, no doubt.
I have played d&d since I was 12 if it wasn't for Ed his writing books and games I would never have over come my disability dyslexia to learn to read....... now I shere this hole experience with my daughter and her friends....... its fun as hell when her and her friends tell me how it is ..... me nope here is the books from back in the day ... oh I have a caricatur from the zenitherom here he is ...... yes he's kinda a bad guy ..... 😂 ... watching them look on with 😮 realy dad you did all this wow
Wait wait, that dragon reproduction conversation. Can we get to that? I would love to hear Ed just tell us wild stories from TSR and designers touching different stuff.
Could you provide more information about the Nether Scrolls? I recall reading that one of their powers is, 'Reading even one Nether Scroll offers considerable insight into the Art. Any character studying one immediately gains one level in an arcane spellcasting class of their choice.' Is this how they function in the lore, and could it be one of the reasons the Netheril had so many high-level wizards, or is it just a game mechanic?
I will deal with the Nether Scrolls in a future video (but it may be months before I get there). Much is misunderstood about them, due to fragmentary lore.
fantastic
The way I look at Netheril at least mentally when it comes to themes: it feels sort of like Conan the Barbarian vibe going by all those old artworks for the regular/heroic people populated with scary artefacts (which mind you, only work nearby their huge cities), only the strongest survive on the surface, but there's a lot of "ancient Atlantean" vibes where these big floating cities and snooty dudes are dictating what's the best course to do things while embracing hedonism, arts, magic experimentation and metaphysics (manipulation of form, the perception of aesthetics). Most experiments fail, but the ones that stick become added as legends worthy of remembering to the Netherese. Karsus' managed to make a great many of these stick to build up his reputation/is one that wants godhood which others saw as beyond their reach to do, so going after godhood was his self expression and manifest destiny (plus the ultimate power to deal with the surface threats). There's a lot of leeway in an ancient Netheril campaign to make absurdly powerful artefacts and play it like a Conan campaign clocked to 11, given at the time there's a lich empire taking over the surface and the Phaerimm at their height. Speaking of the Lichlord who ran this ancient undead empire, a lot of Netherese rulers were embracing lichdom including Karsus, which would be an interesting angle to go after. Many are surrendering to undeath when previously I'd imagine it'd be seen as abhorrent, or perhaps they were unable to reach lichdom previously before the fall. What/who gave them the knowledge to do this? Etc.
So kinda like Netheril is Atlantis (coupled with its dramatic fall, punished by the gods mythologically with parallels to Karsus), D&D3E Sword Coast is the Middle Ages, and D&D5E plays more with going into the Enlightenment themes, at least how I look at it :P
The largest church of Mystra was in Halruua. I read where their diviners divined the results of the spellplague. So my question is.. If Mystra gave the info of spellplague to her diviners then why didn't she do anything to stop it? E.g. seeing her own assassination at the hands of Cyric & Shar.
Because it was necessary, for her goal of greater proliferation of magic (ultimately, every creature using it). Mystra has sacrificed herself before, and will again.
@@edgreenwoodofficial Thanks for replying Ed! We're basing our playtest for this adventure series (hopefully produced thru DMs Guild) on the fact that throughout history Mystryl/Mystra has planted timeseeds that allow the PCs to be involved in her plan and hopefully avoid Spellplague. We think we have a great angle for those players who didn't like Spellplague while at the same time create a great storyline for DMs.
Btw..
Sardra! Ed.. please tell us more.
Do an episode on Karsus please!
Oh, I'll get there! He's on the list!
@@edgreenwoodofficial Thank you Sir!
@@edgreenwoodofficial Thank you so much! I'm playing a Sorceress/Warlock with a pact to Karsus, and the plan is to swap pacts to Mystra and try to make a mythal. I'd love to hear anything about mythalmaking!
It fell because every high fantasy world must have an ancient lost civilization that fell to hubris.
The Realms has at least nine of them. I did all the tropes before the internet decided "tropes" existed. I'm ooooolldd.
Symbols Spell matrix and spell sequencer are chain spells.
I've already integrated Sardra into my current campaign as the "better HALF" of Rhaugilath's cousin Iam Relequill (who saved some residents of ancient Seventon). Rhaugilath gave the secret of Lichdom to Iam so he could preserve a library of Netherese knowledge. Sardra & Iam right after the fall created the last known mythallar that moved 2 towns of Seventon to a hidden valley in the high ice.
It's a story of lost loves, kidnapped fathers & lost ancient Netherese towns.
Let's hope that mystra was successful in hiding her time seeds from Ao. 😉
The campaign I'm running is set in ancient Netheril, just before the Fall. My players contend with minions of Karsus who are gathering spell components for Avatar - though my players don't know that (they only know that they're wicked) - and so are unknowingly working to prevent the Fall. When the time comes and they realize what they're doing, they'll have to decide whether to prevent the Fall - and thereby save everyone they've come to know over the course of the campaign - or allow it to happen in order to destroy the many immortal tyrants they've encountered. Is it better to save good, or destroy evil? The work they do now will help them alleviate the negative effects of either choice.
Their mysterious patron is Lady Arilain (a powerful diviner briefly mentioned in the Netheril box set) who has seen smoky visions involving the Fall. She works to unseat the tyrannical archwizards, who she knows are involved somehow, and are evil in any case.
With the question asked about campaigns set during the time of Netheril, no mention of the 2e boxed set that allows for just that!?!?
loving these videos @ed greenwood but i had a question...what is your opinion on wotc saying pre 5E is not canonical to the game. i found this very odd stance to take considering most lore came from 2E products and were updated as things went. also what is your opinion on the novels being made non canonical as they are some of the best work based in the realms. if you cant answer this i understand nda etc that you may have to keep up. Thanks either way
There are NDAs and complications, but let's just say my opinion differs from Wizards on this, and I have a legal agreement to back up my opinion.
Spilling the Lore Beans so we can share Lore Tea.