Will It Run? 50 Year Old F7 Locomotive - Seized, Damaged and in Need of Repair
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2023
- A few months ago I found this PRR F7 on facebook market place. When given 12 volts the lights would come on and the motor would hum however the locomotive wouldn't move. Today I try to open it up and figure out what is preventing it from moving. The problem was not what I was expecting.
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For the algorithm:
Green oxidation indicates leachate of elements in the bronze bearings. Lack of oxidation in the iron elements negates H2O (flood or high humidity) conditions. Lack of chronic breakdown (Proto 2K final gear cracking due to loss of plasticizers caused by petroleum lubricants) over the range negates manufacturing issues. Likely it was baked in an attic or storage shed. Loss of liquid oil and congealed grease lends support. Brittle motor mounts also indicates this. Nice demo, as usual.
I have one of these. Detailed with the Walthers kit and much dry weathering.
Edit: Leachate
Thanks for this detailed explanation of what likely went wrong on this locomotive.
@SMTMainline hi Ihave a few questionsI have aNorfolk and western class j steam engine thatStopped running on new years Day and was wondering if you can helpme
@@SMTMainline 2 question I have a southern pacific daylight steam engine and looking for the roof
@@shananhale985 Are they made by Bachmann?
@@SMTMainline yes sir they are
Super. The Athearn "Superpower" F-7A was my first flywheel equipped, all wheel pickup, all wheel drive, all gear drive, mainline diesel locomotive, and it raised the bar for any future locomotive purchases by me. To this day, some 40 years later, this locomotive and four sisters (A-B-B-B-A) that I bought new (Summer job, $1.85 an hour, phone operator, $14 each locomotive from Caboose Hobbies.) are still reliable runners and dependable enough to be used on the plow train when it snows. The paint jobs have evolved to a nice, weathered, natural patina, (After all the time operating outside.) that looks very realistic, and maintenance is very easy and minimal, and also they look fantastic pulling a matching express passenger train. Thanks for the memories, and hello again from the Tracy Mountain Railway in Colorado. 💙 T.E.N.
New SMT Mainline video just dropped boys, get the popcorn
Of course why not
not a poutine?
Ha
Dont worry, im here
Getting mine rn!
I recently updated an old F7 and added more details on the loco. When it came to cleaning the working parts I used an old toothbrush with rubbing alcohol which gets into all the cogs and corners. It now runs like dream. Great video thank you for sharing
Ruh roh Raggy! 11:55. Lol. For some reason I love watching you sift through your parts bins. Great fix. Someone will be very happy.
I think you mentioned something about it looking like an "I spy" book? so many different parts waiting to be put back to use.
That metal weight makes a great looking load for an 8 axle depressed-center or heavy duty F34 flatcar. Mesta Machine Company of West Homestead Pennsylvania made hydraulic press heads that looked very similar. They were a Pittsburgh area company that shipped many loads over the Pennsylvania Railroad and Penn Central.
Pennsy in the house. 😁 Another successful "we have a runner," Harrison. Need to tweak the light issue before you sent it out.
Thanks for sharing. 👍🐾👍
Your knowledge and skill set are unequaled
I had the exact same problem with an Athearn blue box myself. I bought it cheap at a train show. It didn't run. Same problem, bearing next to worm gear seized. Fixed same it the same way. Now it is one of my better haulers. Thanks for the video.
I have seen a few other videos where the bearings were locked by the worm, allot more common than you think
Pennsylvania Rail Road runs again. Nice work Harrison, and thanks for the video.
You solved another mystery scoob. Athearn blue boxes are very reliable. Rarely is it the motor. It's almost always a small problem. All my locos are blue boxes for that very reason. Well done. 👍 From Texas.
One problem I recently learned about, is that lubricating oils with a high sulfur content will damage brass bearings. This was explained in a recent video by Blondihacks (YT channel.) She didn’t mention if (sintered) bronze bearings are also affected. So maybe the factory lubricant May have been the problem.
You could use CLR to help free up the parts. Just make sure to have them thoroughly washed or they will cease again. Another thing you can do for all your blue box engines is to upgrade the motor mount to the ones with 4 screws. They are a bit of a pain to get the screws into.
Athearn sells new ones by the dozen, which I had to get because the mounts in my engines were starting to fall apart. The type of plastic those mounts are made of start soft, then harden, and then after about 20-25 years start to crumble.
Way to go Harrison. Another successful outcome. 👍
Never doubted for a minute you'd get it running Harrison...
That you could get the engine to run is a partial victory. The broken motor mount should have also been replaced. The combined friction mounting of both motor mounts keeps the prongs on the bottom of the motor secured against the frame, making a secure electrical contact. The new owner will probably have to replace the broken mount at some time in the future, because with use, the good motor mount will gradually pull on the motor, skewing it out of alignment. I had an experience with an SW1200 (Athearn calls it an SW1500), with a similar problem. In that case, the motor and drive train was skewed, causing the drive train to rub on the car body, making a loud noise. It took me a while to figure out that one of the mounts was broken. The mounts are a very inexpensive replacement cost, and well worth installing, considering the amount of time you spent to completely disassemble the unit as you did (good job!). Spare parts are good, but they need to be serviceable. - my humble opinion...
Well done video - thanks for making!
ANOTHER ATHEARN BLUE BOX SAVED!!! GREAT JOB HARRISON!
I had one of those units too, painted for VIA. I recognized the weight and it really does help it be a good puller!
Serenity, we have a runner! Cheers from eastern TN
I have had the very same problem regarding the motor mounts,( now have spares) but thanks for the tip on the worm gear bearings....I will be looking into this aswell,...your right regarding the motors they are very good.👍🇬🇧
Love your videos from the big Island of Hawaii
Hello All, those Athearn BlueBox mechs are rugged, reliable, easily fixable, and very long lasting, and replacement parts are still available, which regrettably is not the case for some newer, and less rugged, locos.Regards from Australia.
those running shots were pure ear candy
Don’t Ever Forget To Say Serenity! I miss ya Saying that.
A much needed video 😊 thank you Harrison happy summer!
Nice work Harrison! Glad to see you were able to get it running.
I just got into the hobby after getting an HO scale train for cheap in a knickknack shop, and seeing stuff like this really makes me want to take it apart and see if there are any issues with it before I get some rail and make a basic layout or loop track
I listen to your videos and live streams on my ear pops while i work .It stips me from choking co works. Just kidding it keeps me relaxed while working.
Wow surprised it did not work
I'd not be surprised if the problem had something to do with the oil that was put on there from the factory. Maybe after sitting long enough it hardens/dries out.
Like the old BSR record players. The turntable platter would seize up due to dried out grease.
Nice Video SMT
Very very nice. Prime example why you should never toss anything one.
That’s a nice locomotive, it’s crazy that it had the same problem as the subway cars. Great video
Enjoyed your video and the info on getting that locomotive running! I've watched
a lot of youtube videos and yours are about the best at understanding repair work!!!
That’s a nice locomotive Harrison
Runs really smooth now.
He returns to entertain us!
Love it! They may not be the most detailed locos but these old Athearn will always outlive anything else. I get more dead modern DCC crap than even old Tycos, though those Tycos do need good maint to stay that way.
Great work as always. Great video
I see you have switched over to the double main group , wise decision Harrison
This is exactly where experience comes in.. Some of us might have given up after first attempt.. Great job.
Thanks. It really is "if at first you don't succeed try try again".
Always like your videos. I collect Athearn locos and bought a bunch of new motor mounts. You should see if your local shop has some
Troubleshoot and basic maintenance of a bluebox chapter of the SMT manual🚂🇨🇦👍
Love to learn how to maintenance the stock here. As I rebuild my stock after the fire. People are sweet to donate stock to me, and some needs such maintenance that you demonstrate. HO scale..
Great job, Harrison!
That is where having a3D printer would be a good investment for rebuilding some of those old engines.
I have a Life Like loco that had the same locked up worm gear bearing issue. Once cleaned, it works like new.
i love watching your videos! as i remember i started watching you like month ago.
I was going to say about oxidation, but the pinned comment says it all very well. Also, you might want to have spare Athearn motor mounts on hand. This issue of brittle motor mounts is not too uncommon, and every Athearn owner should keep spares on hand. Ironically, I've owned this same exact engine in the past, but it was repainted into a Penn Central unit.
Loved the video. Beautiful work.
Because these motor mounts wear out over time and Athearn use the same mounting systems for all road diesels, I just keep a bunch of spare mounts on hand. You can find white rubber ones from a lot of places, but the newer black ones with screws seem to work on older models too.
Not a bad idea but after 10 years of working on these I've at most seen two Athearn motors go bad. They were made very well.
Love the pennsy key stone green and five stripe
Another Job well done you are very clever Harrison from your mate in Australia
Gees it a hard system to work out in the worm
gears very complex l would not be able to do it good on you SMT
Great job..they should run that good the first time out of the box but someltimes don't. I use rubbing alcohol to clean wheels..it's handy and usually on hand.
The shell with the darker green paint might be 50 years old but that chassie is no older than late 80's or 90's . I want that shell .
The shell is not old as you think. This scheme was offered during the 1980s to 1990s, and I personally owned one of these exact locomotives. Keep your eye out for on either Ebay or a train show. They are not as rare as you would think.
Nice restoration on this athearn prr emd f7 locomotive. I’m glad you able to fix that man. I think the old lubricants must’ve dried out on the worm gear over time but idk for sure. I bet that is a common problem for those protos and athearn models I’m guessing?
Love your shows. FYI Acetone and a toothbrush will super clean the gunked up grease off of metal parts. I used to own a bicycle shop and used acetone to clean wheel bearings on really old bikes. Works like a charm! However, Acetone is flammable, and has some fumes.. so, no sparks or open flames... and be safe! ~ B
Acetone is actually a carcinogen , so use protective gloves, and plenty of ventilation , as the fumes, especially in a confined space, can lead to loss of consciousness. I use acetone on an outside table ( but I do not have a snow problem ! ) but only on really hard to clean objects, as I find denatured alcohol or methylated spirits ( ethanol denatured and with added aroma to deter consumption ) usually quite good, and normally does not attack plastics or delrin, though it will potentially damage some painted surfaces. Seized metal parts can be left overnight in a small dish ( rattle can lid ) of metho, and it should be easy to disassemble the next day. This will prevent distortion of small metal components.Another good Harrison video, regards from Australia.
@@70sVRsignalman Typically I have used acetone in well ventilated areas, with gloves on bicycle parts (older bicycle hubs with old grease) and it cleans up the expired grease really well. You have good points! Thanks for the reply!
Thanks for the video! I'm pretty new to railroading but have the same locomotive which has similar issues, it really struggles to pull more than 2 cars - hopefully I can amend that following this video!
I love your parts drawers. I'm envious.
They are handy.
Saludos hermosa maqueta
Motor fixed... Headlight... uh... Actually, with a bit of bending, you can get the headlight to shine through the nose instead of the cab windows. John
I tried off camera. It's making proper contact but it still won't work for some reason.
I love the restoration videos
Awesome video Harrison! I’m getting back into model railroading, and trying to get a good layout. I was wondering, what sizes are the tables you have? Thanks!
Athearn blue box, I mean come on. If someone hasn't taken one apart fully, and put it back together, do it. This video should've been at most 30 seconds just because of how easy the maintenance of these things are. Good video!
As for the dissimilar metals they used I mean they are, period, you have brass and stainless steel (most likely) but how much corrosion that creates will depend entirely on the grade of stainless steel which good luck finding out. That said there is no current flowing through those gears (plastic on one side) so it shouldn't be THAT bad unless of course the the grease used in it had some level of conductive properties which I would probably put my finger on, I mean after 50 years I think it'd bound to happen.
You are exactly correct. Electrolysis is the term .
Hermosa locomotora
I wish you were my neighbor keep it up fascinating
I got to say that was challenging locomotive to get fixed. I myself never saw that bearing seizing like that but I'm not going to say it's not common. One thing I have experience with blue box locomotives bandai have a Athearn bluebox PA 1, and a S7 I believe or a sw1500. Anyways they both have issues with gears then I have a GP18 high hood issues. They have steel wheels vs this locomotive that you have in vid. I'm going to try to get some more gears and see if I can fix the issue with them locomotives. The only way I noticed it was when I was cleaning the wheels. When I gave some pressure the wheel stopped dead in its tracks and started clicking on the gear. I have one of these in a New Haven paint scheme with the b unit, the newer versions will not as heavy as the older version like this one. The instructions for mine show the part number for that wait that's on top of the motor which mine does not have. That could explain why it doesn't pull as much as this one would with the added weight. Good video as always Harrison
Nice work friend
hi love your vids
Nice work.
Before you popped off the shell, I thought we were going to see the old rubber band HI F drive.
SMT has shown me sooooooo many parts in the engines i could probably service mine by myself.
probably stored in a high humidity basement
Depending on the lubrication, you have dissimilar metal corrosion between the bearing and the shaft. If you don't have similar corrosion on the axel bearings, I would guess that the oil protected the axels, but grease on the gears and worm shaft actually caused the worm bearing's to corrode and lock up. Because the gears and posts are plastic they would only be affected by hardened grease clogging the gear teeth.
Stm main line, I got my first switching engine, Baltimore and Ohio Diesel, with kadee couplers and cars for it
SMT if I were you,I'd invest in a smaller ultrasonic cleaner and some acetone. It would make cleaning small parts so much easier
Is there one you'd recommend? I'm open to the idea
It is the lubrication they used when it sits it becomes hard like a glue, repair a lot of different locomotives and that seems to be a common problem,even in the trucks gears it happens!
I have this exact engine but in cp rail colours, gotta say that even though they just added a weight those engines can pull a LOT, the record i currently have for mine is 36 cars with a caboose going up the steepest grade on my layout
Another road block fixed 👌 👍 nice ❤️ 👌 👍
P2K engines are clones of the Athearn drive system with extra enhancements. The binding drive worm gears are a common problem if they are not stored carefully and exposed to heat and high humidity.
You are a very nice friend
So nice
It’s interesting to see that amount of oxidation in those areas. It reminds me of old leather holsters that have that kind of local corrosion around the snaps and rivets. That is usually caused by wax and leather cleaners. So, using the wrong kind of cleaning solution, the wrong kind of lubricant or something else that contains a corrosive chemical. Just a thought!🙃
nice
I use engine oil to lubricate the phosphor bronze bushings. I have great results.
At 6:17 there is a hair or a very thin wire loop of some kind on the end of the truck, probably harmless, but it doesn't seem to belong & I didn't see it on the other truck...
A grease called lubraplate in the 70 s turned to glue with age and froze all the bearings.
I need to watch. Gotta bone up on repairs!
i still have mine they have lit on fire and still work better than most of my locos
I have something like that but it’s older and some how runs like it’s new and it brown Pennsylvania rr
Especially the fact that it is a athern blue box I wonder why it’s damaged like that
You also forgot to put the tab under the light to make contact with the upper contact bar because the light was not on after you put it back together.
I got a vintage Athearn Union Pacific ALCO PA-1. It sorta runs but it has very high energy draw and moves very slowly and weakly. I have cleaned the wheels, cleaned the motor, put new grease in the gears. Any tips on how to get it going faster or is the motor dying?
Can you buy another one just like that one
hello smt mainline it's is randy and i like yours video is cool thanks super cool smt mainline thanks friends randy
Mantenimiento a la F7 Pensilvania escala HO.
Yo tengo una máquina análoga escala HO, GP40-2 Chessie System.
Debo limpiar las láminas de contacto con wd40 para correrla en la maqueta escala HO de 3 centurias.
Limpio sus ruedas con alcohol isopropílico a las máquinas escala N que tengo.
smt whats funny my uncle who im close with hates me now cause of you in a good way. he still has his locos but needed some work. when i told him of your channel he looked you up and you already worked on several of his locos. but alls good and maybe got a new sub from him