Gen Z Girls: "I would never be with a Pro-Life guy." Also Gen-Z Girls: "I hate all these guys that just want me for sex and don't care about the consequences."
HONESTLY! They argue that men get women pregnant and disappear or pressure for an abortion is wrong. But when confronted with dating a ProLife man who won't do that, they say "nope, don't want him"
I don’t know how many pro-life guys there are. Women have done such a successful job at silencing men on the issue that most don’t even have a stance on abortion (or they think they can’t have an opinion).
“Can we not call them babies?” If that makes you uncomfortable then you know somewhere in your little hard heart that the whole thing is sick and morally wrong
Keeko is extraordinarily obnoxious. That said, it is her job to be an unpleasant feminist foil. Imagine the unviewable nature of a show described as "the polite agreement hour." This is necessary.
this is what happens when you put 5 women with low iq's in against men who can think .... You end up with a 1 sided argument and the other side giggles and says dumb shit
The idea of abortion or infanticide goes back to Roman paganism so it was a risky sexual activities outside marriage. They were materialistic, they believed death before dishonored. The pleasure principal was essential to them, so they didn't believed suffering has any meaning unless it was immediately apparent, euthanasia was practice as escape.
@@snudo3760 I always turn it around asking if their logic would apply to black slaves ("it") and slaverowners ("If YOU don't approve, YOU feel free not to own slaves").
I fell pregnant at 16 , coming from a strict home. This definitely was not ideal, so I decided to get an abortion. Funny enough, I used to take pictures of my belly as it grew in admiration. On my way to the clinic, my daughter kicked for the first time. It felt like a fish, I even felt/heard a bloop from the fluid. I continued on, got to the clinic and found out it was late. The smile on my face, the happiness i felt, the wholeness I felt . I kept her hidden for 3 more months, an my family found out from seeing the changes. I know this is already long, im so sorry. Anyways, 9 months later a beautiful happy baby was born. She only cried when there was something really wrong but she smiled and laughed most of the time. She is 10 years old today, she gets awards yearly and beats most of her peers academically. She was even selected to join a program where they chose one student per grade with great performance and they would be funded throughout university. but thanks to covid, that failed. anyways, the way that I see it now is I would have robbed myself and the world of such asweet baby. She is kind to every single person, which scares me for safety purpose but that is just who she is. She saw a group of grannies walk by our home in a heavy rain, and invited them to stay in the cupport for shelter. After the rain had stopped, they offered her a bit of money for a thank you and she declined wishing them a safe trip. I am eternally greatful to GOD that my plan failed 🥰😘😍
Thank you for telling your story. God bless you and your precious little girl. Compelling reasons to have a baby are the happy memories a mother will have because she gave a child life. Compelling reasons not to have an abortion are the lifetime of sad and traumatic memories a mother will have remembering she ended the life of another. I nearly did that and it bothers me to this day that the thought ever even crossed my mind. I did not even have an abortion, just the thought of it and t is a lifelong regretful memory.
Because it's not a baby smh. Look up the definition he is gaslighting them because they are too stupid to fact check him. It's not a baby until it develops a Consciousness why is this hard for yall to understand
Why would he, he has de perfect opponents, they have room temperature combined iq, i think 80% of the people in the comments can do waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than all of them
Be a young Lady,and be smart, have no sex ,(how old are these young Ladies,) and have another debate in a years time .wonder if these Ladies ever thought if their Mothers thought about abortion when expecting them ??
That is such horseshit, in a household there is no one that is the head of it. The decisions that are made are by both parents and most financial decisions are made by women.. statistics look it up. If he has a wife that lets him walk all over her about every decision that is made then its not any different then if its the woman walking all over her man neither is respectable. That head of household is just a stupid box on your tax form you use if for some reason you have multiple people living in a house that file taxes.
Usually, the "kill everyone in a coma" point gives people pause. But this girl is so evil, she just blew right through it and said "kill them all... Next"
I realize this is a bit older of a comment, but I thought that was quite the curious thing for her to say after her talk about how she knew by herself when she was very young the difference between right and wrong. She is basically asserting the individual knows best, but only if they have the same thought process as her. I feel like that is almost the definition of narcissism. Michael was trying to get to the point of our morals are grounded by something larger than us, whether you acknowledge God or not. There is no right or wrong without religious views. It would devolve down into the only authority is the individual, and at that point, everyone would just be at whoever is in charge and their whims.
You can tell this young woman was most likely not raised with the very basic human principles, values ,and morals; and the delusion she exhumes is paramount.....she literally has ZERO clue.....I hope she has "an awakening" that can "give her soul back", and that she can understand more about "the HUMAN condition ". Peace
It's bad, but in a sense good since it's another way to argue it's not in fact "your body". Nobody claims that ticks, ring worms, etc are your body, so what makes a fetus that is a "parasite" part of your body?
I would argue its a slippery slope into believing homeless people are parasites, poor people in general, people of specific races, and people with different opinions. It's no accident the founders of planned parenthood believed exactly these things! Evil doesn't come blasting in like an 18 wheeler, it boils you slowly like a frog so you don't notice it before it's already killing you. Sorry, got a bit deep there :D
I love when women try and argue this. A parasite, by definition, has to be a different species than it's host. A mother's child in the womb is not a different species, therefore not a parasite by definition. It's always fun watching them try and wriggle their way out of that.
Michael is like the smart uncle that pisses everyone off at every family reunion and yet they continue to ask his opinion on things because they know the answer is gonna be interesting
Haha you just summed me up perfectly with that. My family will ask me certain questions and I'll give them the answers and they'll look at me like I've just grown another head and then they go online to fact check me to prove me wrong because I've just shattered their views and they sit their in amazement that I was actually right.
@@cheritzie9343funnily enough that’s what I used to think. I realised that the bible is a book of philosophy in various forms, from poetry, to recounting of events of lessons (parables), to the commandments to follow god (all of which (save a few) are considered sacred to modern society). I believe in god due to the historical significance and the proof behind the bible. I believe that god exists, you don’t have to, but the bible is certainly an excellent text. I’d also like to say, that until about 8 years ago I thought a ‘god’ was absolutely garbage, and I’ve changed because I have learnt many new things even as I’m older.
to get angry at them would be validating their mindless thoughts and beliefs. It's sort of like getting angry that a homeless man made fun of your job.
As an obstinate person, when Michael said, "Is it maybe because you're afraid you'll find compelling evidence that would convince you otherwise" I felt that.
Girl on the far right has a strong opinion on the topic but can’t logically or morally defend her opinion and does not even want to discuss why she has her opinion. She’s utterly valueless to have a discussion with.
I was pro choice, after a miscarriage and my sister telling me she was aborting her pregnancy, I changed my view point and am now completely against abortion.
simple answer? personality disorder. her utilitarian views. lack of compassion for anything that doesnt immediately relate to HER- or HER views/beliefs- these personality traits align with things like narcissism- borderline, etc. Cluster B.
I feel such a shame to be apart of the same generation as those girls. The fact that the girl named Kiko called a baby in the womb 'a parasite' brings tears to my eyes.
@@mathewprothero7956 by definition, she is wrong. parasites live off of another species and the species/animal attempts to reject or get rid of the parasite as it is foreign and takes nutrients that the animal was not made to give. a woman is made to give nutrients to their unborn baby/fetus and a fetus in the womb is simply just part of human development. the human body welcomes the fetus because it is meant to be there, we produce milk and our body gives nutrients to the new life instead of trying to reject it. fetuses simply are not parasitic. parasites TAKE nutrients and cause nothing but harm to an animal/species. human’s and animal’s bodies GIVE nutrients to the unborn fetus to develop new life. unborn babies. are. not. parasites. not even “by definition”
@@mathewprothero7956 The relationship between a mother and her gestating child is mutualistic symbiosis, dummy. You really thought you had everyone by wheeling out that definition, huh?
@@BradLee208 either you know nothing of parasites, literacy or pregnancy. an organism that lives in or on an organism of another species (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense
His patience comes from a will to teach. He's not debating them, really. He expects ignorance. He "knows certain things" that pertain to the topic at hand, and has steelmanned his argumentation such that his interlocutors' arguments are already countered before they even sat down. His ego isn't threatened. There is no rational or irrational reason to become irrate here.
Michael is a pro at dealing with leftists. That is why he can keep calm. Same thing with Ben Shapiro, Candace Owens, Larry Elder and other conservatives. Leftists pretty much eat themselves.
How can you not comprehend the difference between an innocent child that has never done anything wrong, and somebody that’s been found guilty of such atrocities, that the state has determined they have forfeited their right to live in a civilized society.
This is so true. These women think that they get to choose whose life is more valuable and gets to live. Even if she had the baby she still gets to live. When the women commit these murders, they are lucky to get a life. The fact that they had a life to live doesn’t mean they’re more important than the baby. Poor babies don’t get even a chance at life.
Back in the late 90's, I regret to say that I suggested an abortion to my girlfriend, at the time. Thank God she responded, "Are you crazy?" To this day, my son, in every facet, is the best person I have ever met in my entire life. Thank God she never even considered my delusions.
That's dangerous, because they don't know what they don't know, and cannot understand that which they cannot understand. "My ears work, but I'm not listening to anything you say," That pretty much just means she isn't intelligent enough to debate, or even have a rational discussion.
How exactly do you come to that conclusion. He literally presents Christianity as objective reality and doesn´t at all react to the woman´s valid argument that there are thousands of religions and no way to tell wether any (if any) of their concepts of God exists. His "best argument" against abortion would be God´s inexistence; God is not objectively real, the entire "beauty" of religion comes from believing in something for which there is no hard proof and being rewarded in the afterlife. An argument that is based on a very personal belief (which religion is, and it should be strictly seperated from state and legislature) is a very weak one.
I got my girlfriend pregnant in high school. I was 17 and she was 15. That was in 1990. I’m still married to the same girl. My son just turned 32, my daughter will be 30 this year. I have three fantastic grandkids. When I watch programs like this, I’m literally confused on how they are absolutely brainwashed and thinking that you cannot make it work. You can.
Love seeing stories like this. My husband and I started dating in high school at 15 & 16 and we are still together 26 & 27 with two beautiful girls. I agree with it can work you just have to put in the work and want to put in the work! ❤
The worst part for me is really when Michael was making an argument about a baby being a human being due to having human DNA from the moment of conception and the girl with a high ponytail responded by “Does it though? If it did, we would be able to test it.” As a medical student, my jaw just dropped at that moment. This really shows how shallow the pro-choicers’ knowledge about the topic is.
@@Andrew_Cotton It certainly shows the weakness in their argument though. It would also be convincing if this woman is representative of most “pro-choice” thought.
Hahaha those girls are bimbos don't expect anything intellectual from them. Can tell from the way they speak. Multiples times I wanted to scream from listening to their counter arguments.
As someone who was in a coma and on a ventilator and survived to come out of it, I’m so happy these girls were not responsible for making the decision of whether I had consciousness or not or was worthy of life or not based on whether I could respond or interact at the time.
You can tell kiko has been to the clinic by the way she consistently argues from emotion and is in constant “my mind will never change”. It’s denial. If she accept Michael as correct, she’ll have to own up to what she’s done
You hit the nail in the head just look at her reaction @ 17:20 that reaction said it all. She literally had a face twitch and touched her eye when the other girl mentioned something about how sad it is to go thru an abortion. Never mind killing the baby. Then a few minutes later she excuses herself to the bathroom because she feels sick to her stomach KNOWING she killed her baby. That's my theory.
@@Kristopher-hh4vw he's correct on most things. Like when he said there's only 2 genders woman and male, and when he mentioned that a fetus has DNA. These crazy women won't even concede on basic biology they are terrible and argue in bad faith.
It's not murder if you shoot people in their sleep because they didn't "know" they were being killed lol there is no pro abortion argument that doesn't lead to a logical fallacy.
@mrjesuschrist2u Good point! I once heard a debate on this where the pro-life woman asked, if you drug a girl, grape her and destroy the evidence so that when she comes to she doesn't know it happened, why is it still a crime? Since she doesn't know it happened? The other debater muttered something about consent and she replied, a fetus doesn't consent to what happens to it either. Why is one a crime to you and the other? Her opponent had absolutely no response and never really recovered
What did you expect? These girls are in way above their heads. They are (insert name of state school) sorority girls debating a man with a dual degree from Yale. They got mollywopped. He literally mopped the floor with them. I see a well educated, well spoken man who is making logical arguments against brainwashed, sorority chicks who are simply building sentences around the buzzwords that are extent of their knowledge of the topic
Debating against six girls that all have opposite viewpoints from yours is more difficult than it looks. Especially when they are talking over and laughing at you the entire time. Despite that, Michael still put on a good show. Well done!
Got in an xbox arvument and when I asked "So you acknowledge it's alive and you still think you should be able to kill it" and they said "yes" i left. With some of these people, there's no saving.
@@mengoinggodsway9024 honestly for the best. Yeah some peopke wake up, but if you're a fully grown ass man or woman that either acknowledges what they want is immiral or just denies, there's nothing that'll change their mind :(
Their bitterness and entitlement is really disgusting. Just the mocking and laughing at his belief in God makes them so gross. Like would you ever mock someone for their belief?
The fact that Keeko thinks she is more intelligent than most the people in the state of Tennessee is absolutely hilarious! She loves to talk about politics and has such strong views yet doesn’t even know some of the most basic things in politics.
Her reasoning for morality is also amazing. It boiled down to consensus. But not just consensus. Consensus among only those who are "educated". Like we don't know that education is a f*ckin joke in this country. What an insane elitist attitude. The other "dumber" girls who had trouble articulating were actually closer to the mark. "The universe" gives them there morality... yes. That's correct ladies, and we have a word for that. Like we can debate back and forth all day about who God is and his nature and all that but MOST cultures throughout history have at least vaguely similar morality codes. Which was Michael's whole point they kept missing. They couldn't get past the word "religion".
I’m from tennessee and it’s so funny how many incredibly intelligent people that i know, (all of which are smarter than kiko). literally have vanderbilt, utk( one of the best nuclear engineering schools in the us), mtsu(one of the best schools for preservation of historical artifacts), tennessee tech, etc
Funny coming from the girl that wants to talk about hatred toward immutable traits and access to services because of them seriously considers southern states to be made up of unintelligent people - wild.
@@collierpawlowski7912yeah it's just a sad comment on how a lot of our schools, especially in blue states, do not so much "educate" these days as they just bury their poor students in endless leftist propaganda including the false notion that conservative states are somehow "less educated." Reminds me of how some people like to claim that racists are typically stupid and uneducated, but often if we are honestly assessing racism, it's the highly educated who are racist. Just look at all the prominent big name schools who were racist to, well, basically everyone thanks to affirmative action. They're racist to black people by assuming they need lower standards to get into school, and racist to everyone else by specifically excluding people who are not of the preferred race.
That's a bad argument because the pro life movement is about snuffing out already realized life, not potential life. There's no reason to damage an already good argument.
@@MmM20978 how in the heck does that work. Your statement is factually incorrect. You simply cannot exist as a grandparent if you do not have a grandchild.
My sister had an abortion at 15. Her then boyfriend died of cancer a bit later. She lived a life that brought her to alcoholism and drugs through another boyfriend years later. She was manipulated into getting her tubes tied. He left her after that. She's now an alcoholic who can't have kids, who is still grieving for her teenage boyfriend and the child she could have had to carry on his memory through the life of a child. She hates herself and is distant from her nephews and nieces because it saddens her to be around children now. She wanted babies. She loves babies. Abortion is a lie. It hurts women.
@@fileuserm93 it represents most. Modern women have been mislead into believing lies and pursuing instant gratification, as have young men. I genuinely wish the best for all these poor young men and women affected by this new mentality.
@Mandosaur Nothing will represent ALL women because all women will NEVER be on the same page. So that's not a realistic point to make. I choose to be a woman on the side of life, and a better future in where we teach proper education on failure rates of ALL contraceptives and forms of birth control. (Women aren't making an educated decision when they get an abortion, because they aren't being educated on it. No other medical precedure are we left in the dark by the doctor to the same degree). Before, I was pro-abortion for no real reason other than selfish reasons if I myself become pregnant. Which I did. And I wanted an abortion. I was never blinded to believe it WASN'T a human life I would be snuffing out though. Not like the people of now, who will not admit what's inside a pregnant human woman. I ultimately chose life, and it has led me to learn more than ever before about pregnancy, contraceptives, and abortion. I CHOSE to be blind before. I CHOSE to be ignorant to the truth. I'm 38 now with 4 kid. I choose to be better for my kids. I choose to actually educate them.
@@DJSpike-ft9yw So why do you have a problem with a so-called "generic" argument? Your comment is generic also. Do you have a problem with your own "generic" response?
I was adopted and it was the BEST thing that ever happened to me!! I thank God every day for this because without it I wouldn't have my 3 wonderful children or my 7 fantastic grandchildren.
I told myself that if I never have kids of my own, I would choose to adopt. Mainly because I think kids are great and think that they deserve someone in their life who wants to be.
That’s 10 humans being and counting that would not exist if your mother got an abortion. How does the pro abortion movement not see anything wrong with this?
I had a miscarriage when I was only six weeks along. She was my child, even though she was only six weeks in my stomach. Her name was Mallory. Do not tell me they are not important if they have not been born yet. I grieved for her then even though I was not ready for another child. And I still grieve for her 19 years later. I cannot wait to meet her when I get to heaven.
My sympathy, condolences, and prayers are with you. My wife had a miscarriage also. It was absolutely devastating. The child was supposed to be born this month. I people who are pro abortion, have no idea what they are talking about.
@@PrivateInformation-xn1mlan abortion is just if I kill you to get your money. you lose your life for my "happyness" I don't love you BTW, do I have the right to kill you?? the baby inside the killer mom, is NOT part of her body!!! if he/she would be, abortions would be very painfull... and they're but only for... guess who?? only for the baby who gets cut into pieces without anesthesia!!!! let's see how would you feel if someone cuts your liver or your pancreas into pieces... those are indeed part of your body!!! not the baby. the fetus, baby, human being is NOT part of your body. regardless of your narcissistic feelings for him/her. they don't even care to give him/her anesthesia. So imagine if someone with a sierra, cuts you into pieces (whithout giving you anesthesia or anything) that's exactly what that baby feels. You don't have the right to brutally murder someone, just because you don't love him/her. and we ALL have memorys from when we were at mom's womb. you can not access those like that, anyway, your subcounscious mind, it's rules by those besides the after born memorys. the baby is another human being... with half of your DNA. only 50%... which means it's not you!!! your liver is 100% ur DNA. Do you get it??
i highly agree, but i also wish they talked more about the scenarios in which a women is graped. i’ve started to lean more towards pro-life, but can’t really seem to justify it in grape situations
I guess it comes down to: is it ever justifiable to take a human life? And when you talk about abortion of babies conceived in violence, you usually come from the perspective that it would avoid the mother's suffering but: a) it's not okay to kill innocent life to avoid something that you *assume* she might go through, as one act of violence doesn't justify the other (the act of killing the baby), and b) it doesn't guarantee a suffering-free life for the mother, because the whole process of abortion is also traumatizing and can cause many physical and psychological complications. Added to the fact that she doesn't stop being a mother, she just becomes a mother of a dead child. Also, take note of many women who were in this situation and actually say that the child saved them from depression for example, because it gave them a higher purpose in life, something to fight for. But many do give the baby to adoption too and that's fine bc it gives them a chance to live.
@@lemonkissed201 I was a product of grape and I feel so blessed that my mom didn't punish me for the crime of my father. My life hasn't been perfect, I've been in and out of the foster system but I get to experience the beauty of the life that God has given me and it's a beautiful thing regardless of how I was conceived.
The only difference is ignorance. You were ignorant and now you are not. Very sad people need to see to understand sometimes. God bless you for realizing and changing your mind!
They shaming Michael for livening in Tennessee…. That’s disgusting and if u heard somone say that to me I’d laugh because - yall fr think California is superior to another state ??? No that’s not how it works💀 education is not all book smarts or woke smarts .
The girl in blue surprised me, she had more thoughtful responses and even asked her peers some questions. She seemed like she was actively listening to arguments and not just thinking of a rebuttal. Maybe some minds were changed by this discussion. Nobody else mentioned it so I just wanted to give her a shoutout.
One of the things i actually appreciate and admire Michael for is that no matter what heinous or ridiculous things these girls say, he stays calm and emotionally removed. He never condescends to them; he jokes and speaks with levity but I feel Michael is legitimately trying to educate these women and the audience of the podcast
I think its cuz at the end of the day, even though he knows none of the 6 girls in front of him will change their minds...some of the thousands of people tuning into the podcast who share similar pro-choice beliefs may be open to listening to what he has to say. And maybe have a more open mind. Cuz a lot of these pro-choice people say the same garbage that these girls do. Watching others make your arguments as apposed to arguing yourself, removes some of the emotion that goes into your reasoning/logic. Hearing their arguments/beliefs crumble second hand can be impactful to those who share them
To be honest, if he was really trying to convince them and plant a seed of doubt about their stances on abortion, he should have coddled their egos a lot more than he did. But it doesn't seem like Michael is that kind of person, and I respect him for it. However, in quite a literal and strategic sense, his steadfast nature in his beliefs is not convincing any of those women. As a conservative intellectual, he can not afford to lose face in any way in an abortion debate, regardless of how trivial. That's why he has such an assertive demeanor.
I was pro choice when I was young. When I was 18 my older sister found out she was pregnant. She was determined to get an abortion. Strangely enough one day she ended up miscarrying. She told me she needed to go to planned Parenthood and wanted me to go along with her. I did. I sat in the office waiting room and there were about 6 other young girls there. One was heavily pregnant. They all were talking amongst themselves as I sat there silently. The heavily pregnant girl was telling the other young woman that she is almost 5 months and there to have the surgery because she just wasn't ready. She said something that stopped my in my tracks. She said well I am going to miss the little baby kicks. The baby is kicking right now. I kid you not I got up and walked out. My older sister came out with a brown paper bag. I knew that that was. It wasn't a miscarriage. She was getting an abortion as well. When I found out I was pregnant at 20 abortion never crossed my mind. He's 11 now.
wow yea that's just horrifying stuff if you live to 100 i reckon you will still be able to Crystal clear remember that girl in the Abortion Clinic stuff like that stays with you for a lifetime
@@cami4CYeshua787 It was the lack of shame and casualty the way she spoke about killing her own baby that was kicking her all of the time that took me aback. At 18 I didn't really have an opinion. I was so young. Until that moment. That hurt my soul. Once I became pregnant seeing that baby on the scans and feeling those little kicks. Still young as well. I just couldn't understand how someone could do that. I still remember what she looked like. The way she spoke and her facial expressions. I never really looked at my sister the same either. The father was her fiance and he wanted a baby. She never told him she was pregnant. She just took the pills to rid herself of that baby. My niece or nephew. I still think about what could have been to this day.
I was raped but he’s now 35, and he saved my life ten years ago now by picking me up off the bed and driving me to the hospital in rush hour traffic where I had emergency surgery ten minutes after arrival. A relative said afterwards, “I guess it’s good she didn’t abort you.” He told me this and said, how many people have to justify their own existence by saving a life? He’s my pride and joy. When a child of rape gets born, mom isn’t reminded of the rapist at all. I realized he was MY child immediately. He’s not a reminder of his father. He’s more a reminder of MY father. Looks a lot like my dad, his grandfather. Funny how that works out.
The reason why pro life is being so active now is because of things like this. For decades the pro life side have been quiet due to abortions being limited to the early weeks of pregnancy. That ideology started to expand for various reasons like health of the mother/baby opening the door to voluntary later abortion to some today advocating for up to and some even after birth.
12:01 “no one needed to teach me killing some one is bad.” Also “I should have the right to kill babies in the womb.” Cognitive dissonance is strong with her.
Right? Only idiots believe in the sanctity of life, you gotta be real smart to lack personal responsibility and only assign value to hedonistic freedom. So disgusting.
I do not believe these girls are typical, these girls are atypical. They do have a louder voice than well-behaved morally centered girls, but are not representative of the majority of girls their age in America.
I am so impressed with Michael's patience with these girls. It's like debating 16 year olds. So ignorant & Kiko sadly is so arrogant. It's really sad. I pray that God wakes them up & saves them.
My only issue with Michaels discussions is that there’s no need to bring religion into arguments that can easily and more effectively shut down the opposing views
@@sarathomas8499 True but most people who support abortion don't want to hear any argument concerning God. Better to argue the biology route because a "fetus" fits the biological definition of life. Once you establish yes this is a life there's no denying that it is in fact taking a life. From there the really callous abortion supporters still don't care though.
The BMJ’s Journal of Medical Ethics report entitled “Reconsidering Fetal Pain” really throws a wrench in this idea that first and second trimester prenatal children aren’t conscious.
Michael is truly a man of God, his ability to not get upset or angry with these women is so admirable to me. He inspires me to get my temper in check, not just for me but for God mainly.
I'm allergic to stupidity, so it's pretty easy for me to lose my temper in such a debate. I give Michael a lot of credit for debating six women at the same time on something that's considered a women's issue.
@squibbelsmcjohnson false gods are not God there is one God he sent his son Yeshua to die on the cross so you could be saved and have everlasting life repent before its to late God bless you brother Jesus loves you!!!!!
The amount of times they interrupted him when he was just about to mow down their arguments is truly astonishing. Kudos to Michael for having the patience of a saint.
My goodness, when Keeko went to the bathroom, the conversation was actually going somewhere. The SECOND she came back it was like all intelligence and reason in the room died all over again
Lol yes. Her speaking is making me feel dumber by the second. I hate it. I hope this is her last visit to the show. It’s no longer fun or funny. Just gross. Lost cause, truly.
@@mrchone84 A lot of men don't realize why many hold this line so vehemently. It's not just "change your position" for many women. They're victims of a social engineering that has normalized abortion, and culture-pinned it to make-women-men feminism. Either consciously or subconsciously women who have had abortions cannot switch in the face of logic or reason. When/If they do, the psyche must contemplate complicity in a murder. The defense mechanisms backed by remorse/fear/survival/shame/guilt/selfishness are a helluva thing. It's a triggered survival mode taking over. It's why you can't ask the question "Who here has had abortions? Raise of hands...."
They complain about bad men and the struggle to find a good man. Well, look where you're looking for them. At parties and places where no good guy will ever be.
I was pregnant at 15. Every person in my life pushed abortion. From counselors to family. They said I would never make anything of myself by having a baby at a young age. I was so scared and I considered it for such a short time. But I realized I made a mistake an innocent baby didn't make the it and should not have to pay for it. I kept him and he is 14 and just a beautiful soul. He is kind and caring and smart. On the honor roll and athletic. He is the best thing that ever happened to me. I struggled a little bit but I grew up quick . I don't regret it. I got my GED and I'm in college to further my education.
That is great and it is powerful.. you made it work, you struggled, you came out on top. This is something these weak girls here on this show could never do. They do not take responsibilities, they have no character nor morals.. they take the easy way and they want to take the easiest path of no resistance!! They are weak and this love of self over everyone else is a very sad life. I would never date cowards such as these weak self loving women.. there are so many good women out there who care for others.
She's clearly struggling because she's had an abortion herself. She's been through it and she knows how wrong she felt and how bad she felt. The anger is because she has tried to justify it intellectually and has built up walls.
I really appreciate how Michael always brings up God and how his arguments always relate back to Him. So many conservatives are scared to do this because it's so easy to dismiss these arguments.... But it's just the truth, and it ALWAYS comes back down to God. God bless Mikey!
People who say they will never chance their mind on something just shows they are not educated enough. You can say you are pretty sure you won't but to say you know you will never change your mind...Especially after you already said you changed your mind on something else that you sid you would never change your mind? That's fear of liberals coming after them speaking.
I became pro life when I watched videos on drs explaining the process of dismantling a child who's alive over the course of hours, while I was trying for a child and looking into their development of their bodies etc. A woman who aborts or is pro abortion are simply women who have been taught what motherhood is about, women are taught that it's a career or life ender... but they aren't taught what happens after.
Thank you for all you do Michael. I tried to watch the full video but had to stop at 18:32 when the “what’s 5 months” comment was made. It made me cry instantly. I was 5 months pregnant when I gave birth to my living and breathing son. I could feel his heart beating while I held his little body in my hands. It disgusts me to think there are people in this world that willingly mutilate innocent babies.
Yeah... One of the women started talking of "parasytes" As a man and you looking for a woman, its not easy in this day and age to find a partner...looks, personality sure are good things , morality and ethics i feel are becoming even more important in this age.
Karla, I agree. I for about two months was sure I was pregnant and I was just about to schedule my appointment with my obgyn when I got my period. I cried. The young lady spoke as if babies in the womb are nothing (or worse a parasite?) I was already imagining my baby and shopping for her/him. It was sad. My husband and I were so excited.
I’m listening to this currently 5 months pregnant. My baby is a whole baby. He’s kicking and moving around. He’s around 7inches long and half a pound already. His heart has been beating for months now. It breaks my heart knowing there are women willingly walking into those clinics.
@GetsaucedOn It does, I was questioning what was implied by the original sentence. I though the logic was wrong. Sure, people wouldnt be born if abortion woukd be performed on them and tlso they woukd not grow into human beings with a position of pro abortion. But the same can be said about condoms lets say. So I was wondering if its an argument somehow, or just some funny line
@@PsychologyAttackhaha the difference is that a condom doesn't let unique DNA start forming and prevents conception from ever happening, therefore negating the current debate. It's a very good argument though, the rich make decisions for the rich because they are rich and you may get hurt but to them they are making the right decision.
@@PsychologyAttack Kind of. It highlights the fact that anyone arguing in favor of babies not being born for any reason is inherently hypocritical, contradictory and biased. But you kind of have to be able to go beyond the surface of a statement to see these things.
I have no idea how he stays so calm. No one follows his logic, everyone ignores him and laughs at him, none of them are actually interested in the other side of the argument, I'm amazed he didn't yell once
I know right! I got so angry watching this debate and imagined myself in the midst of it. Unfortunately, I would've become aggressive. I really respect and admire Michael's patience and calmness. I think it makes him more effective in debate.
The girl with the blue sleeves actually seems like a genuinely nice person. I’ve seen her in a few clips and generally speaking she is much more respectful and respectable than the other monstrosities at the table. She seems to want genuine answers to things and doesn’t snigger with the other girls like a child. I wish more were like her rather than like keeko who just loves the sound of her own low iq opinions.
The only defense these women have is to laugh at Michael and belittle him. I’m strongly pro-life, but I’m having a hard time even considering their point of view given that they are presenting it like a bunch of silly teenage girls. (This is a woman posting on my husband’s account FYI)
it's kinda sad that you feel you can't stand up for yourself. Personal empowerment is possible for everyone. Look at these girls. They spoke powerfully in defense of their positions. Well done, ladies
Stop simping on this idiot Willie He specifically picked them, he wouldnt stand a chance with an academic or scholar.... Which is why he's never had such people on
@@dezlovecraft5247 Saint Ambrose Is my Confirmation Saint. i chose him because more Bishops need to act like him. i'm so glad that more and more Catholics join the fight.
Michael is by far the best guest on this podcast. As annoying as it can be to debate some of these topics, he does it in such a civil way. Definitely well respected
They hear "religion" and assume that means only the set religions such as Christianity, Catholicism, etc. What they don't understand is that "religion" is also just their set of beliefs. Their "universe" is a form of religion
@@luqmanalatas8418 fr man, I'm in college and I can't tell you how many people I've spoken too that don't realize that their belief system is a form of religion. They try and be special but end up conforming to just a different kind of religion
Beliefs and religion are not the same thing. Nor are morals and religion. Religion involves beliefs and morals, but beliefs and morals do not have to involve religion. Religion is, specifically, belief in some greater power above us all. And then you act in accordance with the rules that that greater power deems important. You don't have a say in what is and isn't an important rule to follow, that is beyond your control. Beliefs and morals, however, are products of the rational mind. You can reason that something is right or wrong and then act accordingly of your own accord. That's why non-religious people's beliefs and morals don't always match religious people's beliefs and morals. The individual determines for one's self what they think is a suitable way to act towards others or what they themselves consider to be the most important things to pursue in life. A lot of laws are based off of this idea. Rationally, what's right and what's wrong, using something as a gauge to go by. That's also why a lot of laws aren't moral according to religious belief systems.
I had a girlfriend that got pregnant when we were young back in the 90’s and we discussed it, agreed on having the baby, then 2 weeks later she aborted and said I owed money to pay for the abortion, nope. 29 years later I still wonder about that, we reconnected a couple years ago briefly on FB and talked about that with her still wondering what that baby would be today. It NEVER goes away, it’s never forgotten, it’s permanently changed forever even after abortion. I’m still angry about it to this day, that’ll never change.
This made me so sad. I’m 29 and was born to a teen mother ‘93. She definitely considered it and luckily pushed through. I’m so sorry you continue to had/have to go through that❤
Similar here as an ex aborted without my input. Who would've thought that twenty years later, I'd be sitting here with no children pondering what could've been.
I feel like the effects after having an abortion are not talked about enough. My good friend had an abortion years ago, and she was in a deep depression for almost a year after, and it still affects her today.
Oh my goodness, I can feel my brain cells slipping away listening to this. If not for Michael balancing out the stupidity, I'd be screwed. Thanks Michael! 👍🏻
When they were talking about him elevating the average IQ of the state of Tennessee, I couldn't help but notice the irony of them being completely unaware that he was also elevating the average IQ of the room.
Symbiotic parasites, if we're talking dictionary definition terminology 🤷 they feed off their host (mother) in order to grow but since that is the function of the womb it's a symbiotic system by nature. Unless something goes wrong in the development cycle, then they can become just parasites which in many historical examples leads to the death of their host organism (mother)...actually wait, I remember being a child and can say with absolute certainty that I along with every other child I've ever met since then are definitely little money draining parasites. And to planet earth the whole of humanity is one big ole parasitic superorganism. It's okay to be offended, but at least be honest about why, because truth hurts. Sweet dreams earth fam
It's so illogical to call them parasites too, parasites are biologically designed to take from the host, causing harm, or in the case of a symbiotic relationship, sometimes helping the host. A parasite can always willingly leave it's host if it feels threatened. In utero a baby can just leave, and it's not stealing from the mothers, the mother's bother biologically starts to grow the baby taking care of it, not because the baby wills it, but because the mother's body wills it.
Funny thing is Michael can always school people without raising his voice. He will stay silent when people scream and talk over him and then continue as if nothing when they’re done. 😅 I think that’s what makes people mad, the fact that he never loses his cool, and he even smiles and smirks while people are making their dumb points. 😅
@Србомбоница 🇷🇸 I phrase it different, he cant be wrong if he justifies all things with god. To argue against that, you first have to argue against his beliefs im god. Thats not the debate.
Knowles is the kind of figure who really belongs on these types of podcasts, because he is an amazing debater, but so calm in the same time. Couldn't image Ben Shapiro in the same atmosphere.
Michael has a great personality and that breaks down these nonsense girls. He's the gentleman and dad figure type they never had and prob never will have.
Im thankful my oldest was not aborted by her teenage mother. She is outspoken about her pro life stance. She played college basketball and sadly stated to me once that 10 out of 12 girls on the team were pro choice. Im proud of her that she stood up and corrected the girls when a sick joke was made about the abortion issue. I believe many kids are blessed that she is their school teacher. And im blessed now she will be giving me my first grandchild in two weeks. Life is precious even though theres evil in the world.
19:49 This is how my baby cousin was adopted. Her biological parents were heroine addicts and still had the sense to give her up for adoption. I’m so glad for that since she is the sweetest child and our whole family is so happy to have her around.
Imagine that tar addicts having more sense than these little girls. Hoping soon the government gets taken out of schools so teachers can teach again otherwise we will keep going backwards instead of making things better.
that's not the point, the point is that if she was aborted, you wouldn't even have met her, so you wouldn't miss her, you would have met another adopted baby from your brother or sister and loved her or him the same.
@@alejandrohayling8381 It’s better that my cousin is alive, thank you very much. Unless you disagree, in which case I would not trust you around children. Her being given life was a great thing for our family.
@@ianquyck9834 I'm not saying she 'should not' be alive, just try to think of it in a more objective scientific way ... If she wasn't born, there is no possible way that you would've missed her, you wouldn't even have met her.
That one girl is pure evil, saying to kill people in comas just because she felt like she'd not want to live while in a coma. I bet if you were able to ask her after she woke up from a coma if she'd prefer death then she'd say no, and thank her family and her doctors for not pulling the plug. She's so short sighted.
Crowder has done amazing things for the pro-life conversation Edit: princess-life to pro-life. I don’t know what Crowder has added to the princess-life conversation, but it’d be a great skit
When I was younger, my friend told me that his mother was raped when she was young. She kept the baby, did not abort. She had 2 more children afterwards (my friend was the middle child). They considered each other brothers. No one felt excluded or anything. They were a happy family. I think you can turn something so horrible into something so great and beautiful. Just because something horrible happens doesn't mean that you need to do something horrible as well.
@@chuckhoyle1211 Except they are evil. You can argue that they're unaware of the evil nature of their actions, but even that is BS because they're old enough to know better. Everything that is good comes from God, and everything that is evil strays from God. It's that simple.
@@chuckhoyle1211 Well, we are actually all evil to one degree or another. But this does not account for the particular evil these girls possess to rapidly defend the murder of the most innocent and vulnerable people among us. Of course they can all be saved, all could even be brought to a place where they change their mind concerning abortion, but they have all heard the other side of the argument also, as they did here. We've all been lied to, but the conscience does not allow many people to except the lie. Moreover, if you look at the way each one of them was dressed (to a debate no less), it's pretty clear to see the ulterior motive they have for being pro-choice.
In 1999 I was 19 years old and got my girlfriend pregnant. She was dead set on abortion and had one. I feel guilt daily, 24 years later. I can’t imagine the guilt a woman can feel.
Bro similar experience, although I’m happily married and have two kids, we pray daily for my unborn kid, I had no saying on the abortion back then, my ex already made up her mind
cant imagine that feeling. being a dad is the best thing ever and yours would be in his 20s now, who knows what sort of things that the world missed out on cause of all the people these women just decide dont get to live.
bro trust me you don't want a tie to your teenage girlfriend for the next 18 years, nor do you want a kid at 19/20. It was her decision. Neither of you have anything to feel guilty about
I’m honestly extremely proud of how Michael handled these women. He was calm, collected, clearly stated facts and also kept everything centered around God. He knew the purpose of this conversation wasn’t to demoralize or destroy these women as they weren’t a political opponent or someone who wields great influence/power so they didn’t require his full ferocity. He also didn’t ever feel the need to use secular scientific arguments which by themselves will destroy the abortion argument on their own merit. He kept it all centered around God because he understands that these women aren’t ill intentioned or bad actors; they’re Godless and lost. Indoctrinated. Hurt. Failed by society and a gross culture that glorifies the worst in us. We’re fallen. And so Michael could again destroy all of their points with scientific arguments about when life begins and viability and all those things but he chose to stay on God and that God exists. To get them thinking just a little more and get them to notice the absurdity of their claims. To pay attention. To be a little more careful about their claims and what they’re willing to just blurt out. They may not have been converted but that wasn’t the point. The point was to get them actually scraping the rust off their prefrontal cortex and actually use their brains
I think the best question to present to someone who doesn’t believe in God is “Where do your morals come from?” and “Why do you believe something is inherently wrong or right?” That girl who said she’s had her morals since she was born and that no one taught them to her is lying. Her parents taught them to her. We are taught wrong from right. And this has been passed down since Adam & Eve ate the forbidden fruit.
The fact that they think they're so smart and Michael is on a different level and they can't even comprehend they're being schooled is astounding. Whoever dates these women is screwed, do not marry these women
Gen Z Girls: "I would never be with a Pro-Life guy."
Also Gen-Z Girls: "I hate all these guys that just want me for sex and don't care about the consequences."
HONESTLY!
They argue that men get women pregnant and disappear or pressure for an abortion is wrong.
But when confronted with dating a ProLife man who won't do that, they say "nope, don't want him"
I don’t know how many pro-life guys there are. Women have done such a successful job at silencing men on the issue that most don’t even have a stance on abortion (or they think they can’t have an opinion).
@@millennialmadness5138 there might not be vocal people, but there are people who definitely are quietly pro-life.
The majority of people who are pro abortion are women , the majority of people who argue for pro life are also women, men are just the moderator
Double standards are handy as! 👍
“Can we not call them babies?” If that makes you uncomfortable then you know somewhere in your little hard heart that the whole thing is sick and morally wrong
Exactly. It's like the Chris Rock bit. You can't pretend when you leave Planned Parenthood you're getting a dead baby in the end.
Excellent point and my thoughts exactly.
Why not just speak more precisely?
@@RatatRatRlike what for an example?
@@NoahHunterGamble Zygote, embryo, fetus, and then, after birth, baby, infant, child, etc.
I'm a priest and I hear confessions of women decades later still hurting from having an abortion. It's not a solution to any problem.
It’s murder
Yep!
Facts💯
Do you think a lot of boyfriends/husbands pressure them into having the abortion? That is what I have seen.
@@maryannebrown2385 if someone pressures you to shoot someone in the head, and you do it....its still _you_ who shot someone in the head
The woman on the right is the most unlikeable person holy smokes. Props to Michael for having the patience for her😂
Keeko is extraordinarily obnoxious. That said, it is her job to be an unpleasant feminist foil.
Imagine the unviewable nature of a show described as "the polite agreement hour." This is necessary.
Keeko, she is vile.
Thank you! She's just horrible. She started off saying that no one could possibly change her mind. That shows you just how arrogant she is.
Props to you Michael for enduring this nonsense.
this is what happens when you put 5 women with low iq's in against men who can think .... You end up with a 1 sided argument and the other side giggles and says dumb shit
😂 hahah Michael has a lot of patience and grace to sit w these nonsense girls
I was wondering 🤔💭what there IQ was combined ❓ It doesn't appear that it would be to high!
I mean it wasn't that bad
Most of these girls were respectful
@@stardustgirl2904
*Their
*Too
And your sentence structure needs some work, as well.
“Can we stop calling them babies?” Probably a good idea because it makes the guilt and shame parts of your brain kick in 😂😂😂
Like saying “don’t call it grape”…..ok that was a bad example
"Can we stop calling them (black slaves) humans?"
Same logic...
The idea of abortion or infanticide goes back to Roman paganism so it was a risky sexual activities outside marriage. They were materialistic, they believed death before dishonored. The pleasure principal was essential to them, so they didn't believed suffering has any meaning unless it was immediately apparent, euthanasia was practice as escape.
But they called “it” a baby a bunch of times too… they’re lost.
@@snudo3760 I always turn it around asking if their logic would apply to black slaves ("it") and slaverowners ("If YOU don't approve, YOU feel free not to own slaves").
I fell pregnant at 16 , coming from a strict home. This definitely was not ideal, so I decided to get an abortion. Funny enough, I used to take pictures of my belly as it grew in admiration. On my way to the clinic, my daughter kicked for the first time. It felt like a fish, I even felt/heard a bloop from the fluid. I continued on, got to the clinic and found out it was late. The smile on my face, the happiness i felt, the wholeness I felt . I kept her hidden for 3 more months, an my family found out from seeing the changes. I know this is already long, im so sorry.
Anyways, 9 months later a beautiful happy baby was born. She only cried when there was something really wrong but she smiled and laughed most of the time. She is 10 years old today, she gets awards yearly and beats most of her peers academically. She was even selected to join a program where they chose one student per grade with great performance and they would be funded throughout university. but thanks to covid, that failed.
anyways, the way that I see it now is I would have robbed myself and the world of such asweet baby. She is kind to every single person, which scares me for safety purpose but that is just who she is. She saw a group of grannies walk by our home in a heavy rain, and invited them to stay in the cupport for shelter. After the rain had stopped, they offered her a bit of money for a thank you and she declined wishing them a safe trip.
I am eternally greatful to GOD that my plan failed
🥰😘😍
Yes AMEN HALLELUJAH. Give her to Jesus.
Beautiful story!! I’m happy you choose life! God bless you and your beautiful daughter and family ❤
Amen!
That is such a beautiful story! Praise God
Thank you for telling your story. God bless you and your precious little girl. Compelling reasons to have a baby are the happy memories a mother will have because she gave a child life. Compelling reasons not to have an abortion are the lifetime of sad and traumatic memories a mother will have remembering she ended the life of another. I nearly did that and it bothers me to this day that the thought ever even crossed my mind. I did not even have an abortion, just the thought of it and t is a lifelong regretful memory.
“Can you stop calling it a baby so I feel less guilty about it?”
This right here!!!!
So the second a man ejaculates inside a woman, it a a "baby" ? Why do you think doctors have different names for the different stages of a pregnancy?
Because it's not a baby smh. Look up the definition he is gaslighting them because they are too stupid to fact check him. It's not a baby until it develops a Consciousness why is this hard for yall to understand
@@lman1006It is a baby from conception and a life
@@misses1768 Then you're too stupid to have this conversation if you think that lol
The fact that Knowles doesn’t lose composure when he’s outnumbered 6 to 1 and gets cut off by nonsense every other word is commendable.
He was outnumbered when you consider butts in seats. When you consider mental faculties, Michael might as well have been talking to himself.
Why would he, he has de perfect opponents, they have room temperature combined iq, i think 80% of the people in the comments can do waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than all of them
@@Danarchy3 I'm sure he usually does
@@Seryeth there iq's would still be a lot higher than yours, even if you were right.
Which I'm sure you're not
Hes a pro and knows what he’s talking about. Plus he’s just a really nice guy
Thanks for coming on the show Michael! You put on a masterclass!
Best co-host.
Yeah, he absolutely schooled all of them. Only voice of logic. On second thought, the girl with the blue sleeves is actually better than most.
Great job Michael! Discerning the heart and proving once again that Abortion is not only immoral but a grave injustice of innocent blood.
Best guest ever, and please stop giving Keeko a platform she's a detriment to your awesome podcast.
Doubtful... His best work was' house of Shades... That's a masterpiece🎉
“Why not? I’m the head of my household.”
I love how Michael Knowles just leans into the conservatism. The girls don’t know how to process it.
Yeah they're prob not use to that blatant honesty when it comes to conservative values. Most people would hedge on that topic. Lol
Be a young Lady,and be smart, have no sex ,(how old are these young Ladies,) and have another debate in a years time .wonder if these Ladies ever thought if their Mothers thought about abortion when expecting them ??
He's the head of his wife
That is such horseshit, in a household there is no one that is the head of it. The decisions that are made are by both parents and most financial decisions are made by women.. statistics look it up. If he has a wife that lets him walk all over her about every decision that is made then its not any different then if its the woman walking all over her man neither is respectable. That head of household is just a stupid box on your tax form you use if for some reason you have multiple people living in a house that file taxes.
@@galvanizedgnome don't get it
Usually, the "kill everyone in a coma" point gives people pause.
But this girl is so evil, she just blew right through it and said "kill them all... Next"
and the other girls agree. Quite insane if you ask me.
This girl is literally fine with killing EVERYONE in a coma. Chilling honesty.
And she answered it so QUICKLY and honestly. It was disgusting.
Keko is possessed by anger and hatred
I realize this is a bit older of a comment, but I thought that was quite the curious thing for her to say after her talk about how she knew by herself when she was very young the difference between right and wrong.
She is basically asserting the individual knows best, but only if they have the same thought process as her. I feel like that is almost the definition of narcissism. Michael was trying to get to the point of our morals are grounded by something larger than us, whether you acknowledge God or not. There is no right or wrong without religious views. It would devolve down into the only authority is the individual, and at that point, everyone would just be at whoever is in charge and their whims.
You can tell this young woman was most likely not raised with the very basic human principles, values ,and morals; and the delusion she exhumes is paramount.....she literally has ZERO clue.....I hope she has "an awakening" that can "give her soul back", and that she can understand more about "the HUMAN condition ". Peace
Sad. Just because you’re in a coma doesn’t mean you’re going to stay that way until you die. Many wake up
To call a child a "parasite" is pure evil. !! My heart breaks for this woman
It's bad, but in a sense good since it's another way to argue it's not in fact "your body". Nobody claims that ticks, ring worms, etc are your body, so what makes a fetus that is a "parasite" part of your body?
she basically thinks she’s a parasite lol
F these monsters.
I would argue its a slippery slope into believing homeless people are parasites, poor people in general, people of specific races, and people with different opinions. It's no accident the founders of planned parenthood believed exactly these things! Evil doesn't come blasting in like an 18 wheeler, it boils you slowly like a frog so you don't notice it before it's already killing you. Sorry, got a bit deep there :D
I love when women try and argue this. A parasite, by definition, has to be a different species than it's host. A mother's child in the womb is not a different species, therefore not a parasite by definition.
It's always fun watching them try and wriggle their way out of that.
Michael is like the smart uncle that pisses everyone off at every family reunion and yet they continue to ask his opinion on things because they know the answer is gonna be interesting
Haha you just summed me up perfectly with that. My family will ask me certain questions and I'll give them the answers and they'll look at me like I've just grown another head and then they go online to fact check me to prove me wrong because I've just shattered their views and they sit their in amazement that I was actually right.
Interesting and right.
yep. but sadly, that family would be ignorant and impulsive.
"Having a baby would ruin my hourglass ⌛ figure."
It comes down to vanity
Yeah like okay girl murder will ruin your soul but pop off
@@emilylefevre6806exactly 💯
It already seems to be destroyed. I’m sure she has had at least one abortion already.
It comes down to greed and pride. I'm not religious but damn, is the bible making sense.
@@cheritzie9343 You should take a look at it, see whether it makes any more sense. God bless
@@cheritzie9343funnily enough that’s what I used to think. I realised that the bible is a book of philosophy in various forms, from poetry, to recounting of events of lessons (parables), to the commandments to follow god (all of which (save a few) are considered sacred to modern society). I believe in god due to the historical significance and the proof behind the bible. I believe that god exists, you don’t have to, but the bible is certainly an excellent text. I’d also like to say, that until about 8 years ago I thought a ‘god’ was absolutely garbage, and I’ve changed because I have learnt many new things even as I’m older.
Michael's knowing smile whenever they laugh at him about religion is just beautiful. His ego doesn't get bruised and he laughs along.
Yes! I found that so true and impressive.
I would have had such a hard time. I guess I need to work on that in myself😅
He's a man's man. I love seeing him talk and joke about things. I wish there were more men like him, single ones. 😎
to get angry at them would be validating their mindless thoughts and beliefs. It's sort of like getting angry that a homeless man made fun of your job.
@@pineappleparty1624 religion is extremely laughable
@@crowleymccloud2768 You couldn't fill his shoes if you tried, and that makes you insecure.
As an obstinate person, when Michael said, "Is it maybe because you're afraid you'll find compelling evidence that would convince you otherwise" I felt that.
Time?
@@mrhudzen9596 7:02
@@josephinehilger5975 Bro hes so good
Keeko is mad annoying
Girl on the far right has a strong opinion on the topic but can’t logically or morally defend her opinion and does not even want to discuss why she has her opinion. She’s utterly valueless to have a discussion with.
I feel sorry for any young man who has to deal with these ladies who think that they are very bright but are very confused.
Any young man that comes even near any of these horrid creatures has made a grave mistake and should reconsider his actions.
The woman with the sleeves is alright. Not perfect but she seems to understand the problems.
Confused? No. Stupid.
“Confused”, the kindest way to describe narcissistic stupidity and evil…
@@redlandz1977 you are a kinder soul than I am
I was pro choice, after a miscarriage and my sister telling me she was aborting her pregnancy, I changed my view point and am now completely against abortion.
The fact that Keiko keeps calling the babies “parasites” is sickening. How could you ever say that about a baby?
Notice she speaks faster the more defensive she gets.
Because she’s demonic
What you do when you lack, logic, common sense and an triple digits IQ
She prob comes from a dysfunctional family. She has so much anger.
simple answer? personality disorder. her utilitarian views. lack of compassion for anything that doesnt immediately relate to HER- or HER views/beliefs- these personality traits align with things like narcissism- borderline, etc. Cluster B.
I feel such a shame to be apart of the same generation as those girls. The fact that the girl named Kiko called a baby in the womb 'a parasite' brings tears to my eyes.
@@mathewprothero7956 by definition, she is wrong. parasites live off of another species and the species/animal attempts to reject or get rid of the parasite as it is foreign and takes nutrients that the animal was not made to give. a woman is made to give nutrients to their unborn baby/fetus and a fetus in the womb is simply just part of human development. the human body welcomes the fetus because it is meant to be there, we produce milk and our body gives nutrients to the new life instead of trying to reject it. fetuses simply are not parasitic. parasites TAKE nutrients and cause nothing but harm to an animal/species. human’s and animal’s bodies GIVE nutrients to the unborn fetus to develop new life. unborn babies. are. not. parasites. not even “by definition”
Those same people who say words are violence sure make it a point not to call unborn children humans.
@@mathewprothero7956 The relationship between a mother and her gestating child is mutualistic symbiosis, dummy. You really thought you had everyone by wheeling out that definition, huh?
@@mathewprothero7956 no by definition a human being cannot be a parasite,l
@@BradLee208 either you know nothing of parasites, literacy or pregnancy. an organism that lives in or on an organism of another species (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense
Poor Michael, it takes a lot of self discipline to entertain ignorance with so much patience. Good job bro!
His patience comes from a will to teach. He's not debating them, really. He expects ignorance. He "knows certain things" that pertain to the topic at hand, and has steelmanned his argumentation such that his interlocutors' arguments are already countered before they even sat down. His ego isn't threatened. There is no rational or irrational reason to become irrate here.
Hearing thots pontificate on consciousness was VERY funny.
THE AMOUNT of stupidity you have to endure for these uneducated women
@@ujiltromm7358 Great insights. Thanks!
Michael is a pro at dealing with leftists. That is why he can keep calm. Same thing with Ben Shapiro, Candace Owens, Larry Elder and other conservatives. Leftists pretty much eat themselves.
How can you not comprehend the difference between an innocent child that has never done anything wrong, and somebody that’s been found guilty of such atrocities, that the state has determined they have forfeited their right to live in a civilized society.
This is so true. These women think that they get to choose whose life is more valuable and gets to live. Even if she had the baby she still gets to live. When the women commit these murders, they are lucky to get a life. The fact that they had a life to live doesn’t mean they’re more important than the baby. Poor babies don’t get even a chance at life.
I’m struggling to watch 20 minutes without losing my cool. Big props to Michael’s patience and professionalism
Fr he’s probably the most calm person on the planet lol😂
It’s God’s presence working through him
@@jenk.eventdesign no lie it’s why I always say (to quote my worship pastor) “praise be to God praise be to God”
I’m the same age, if not, younger than these GIRLS. I hate the sarcasm and the giggling during this debate. I’d have walked out IMMEDIATELY lollllll.
I would’ve 100% lost it 😂
Back in the late 90's, I regret to say that I suggested an abortion to my girlfriend, at the time. Thank God she responded, "Are you crazy?"
To this day, my son, in every facet, is the best person I have ever met in my entire life.
Thank God she never even considered my delusions.
i was seven in the late 90s lol family is so important and children are precious
Their collective IQ is still not enough to even challenge Michael
That's dangerous, because they don't know what they don't know, and cannot understand that which they cannot understand.
"My ears work, but I'm not listening to anything you say,"
That pretty much just means she isn't intelligent enough to debate, or even have a rational discussion.
My thoughts precisely. It's sad to listen to this
It’s difficult to try to reason with those who didn’t reach their opinions by using reason.
How exactly do you come to that conclusion. He literally presents Christianity as objective reality and doesn´t at all react to the woman´s valid argument that there are thousands of religions and no way to tell wether any (if any) of their concepts of God exists. His "best argument" against abortion would be God´s inexistence; God is not objectively real, the entire "beauty" of religion comes from believing in something for which there is no hard proof and being rewarded in the afterlife. An argument that is based on a very personal belief (which religion is, and it should be strictly seperated from state and legislature) is a very weak one.
@@seymourfields3613 plus, half the words he used, she never even heard before in her dopey echo chamber and public schooling.
They don’t want to call the baby a baby ! My two cents it’s because they want to disconnect from the thought of it being a baby.
Almost every single negative female stereotype is championed by that team of "strong" women 😂
They are very young. It's normal at this age. Give them until 25.
@@SK-ut6tw these are modern women. They get too much affirmation from social media. We will watch them age with a pet cat.
@@SK-ut6tw It’s chilling they are so young with blood on their hands.
And so is every male
@@MmM20978 stop crying
You want forced pregnancies?
I got my girlfriend pregnant in high school. I was 17 and she was 15. That was in 1990. I’m still married to the same girl. My son just turned 32, my daughter will be 30 this year. I have three fantastic grandkids. When I watch programs like this, I’m literally confused on how they are absolutely brainwashed and thinking that you cannot make it work. You can.
But they don't want to because this generation was brainwashed to think they are the center of the universe. They worship themselves.
Love seeing stories like this. My husband and I started dating in high school at 15 & 16 and we are still together 26 & 27 with two beautiful girls. I agree with it can work you just have to put in the work and want to put in the work! ❤
You made it work because you are a Christian.
These girls are atheists and will destroy themselves, thier children and then most likely die alone.
@@stormiesellars4928 love hearing them too, congrats on your family!!👍
You a super senior 😭
The worst part for me is really when Michael was making an argument about a baby being a human being due to having human DNA from the moment of conception and the girl with a high ponytail responded by “Does it though? If it did, we would be able to test it.” As a medical student, my jaw just dropped at that moment. This really shows how shallow the pro-choicers’ knowledge about the topic is.
Someone's ignorance isn't an argument for pro life
@@Andrew_Cotton It certainly shows the weakness in their argument though. It would also be convincing if this woman is representative of most “pro-choice” thought.
@@Andrew_Cotton no but the fact of the baby having individual DNA is
@@Andrew_Cotton It certainly undermines the „science-based“ argument about a fetus not being human enough for it‘s life to matter
Hahaha those girls are bimbos don't expect anything intellectual from them. Can tell from the way they speak. Multiples times I wanted to scream from listening to their counter arguments.
As someone who was in a coma and on a ventilator and survived to come out of it, I’m so happy these girls were not responsible for making the decision of whether I had consciousness or not or was worthy of life or not based on whether I could respond or interact at the time.
You can tell kiko has been to the clinic by the way she consistently argues from emotion and is in constant “my mind will never change”. It’s denial. If she accept Michael as correct, she’ll have to own up to what she’s done
Lol yeah yu can tell she advocates plan B sundencies smh 🤦🏻♂️ I blame the nigguhs tht f*ck her
Bingo
You hit the nail in the head just look at her reaction @ 17:20 that reaction said it all. She literally had a face twitch and touched her eye when the other girl mentioned something about how sad it is to go thru an abortion. Never mind killing the baby. Then a few minutes later she excuses herself to the bathroom because she feels sick to her stomach KNOWING she killed her baby. That's my theory.
He's not necessarily correct, just slightly more capable of rhetoric than them
@@Kristopher-hh4vw he's correct on most things. Like when he said there's only 2 genders woman and male, and when he mentioned that a fetus has DNA. These crazy women won't even concede on basic biology they are terrible and argue in bad faith.
Michaels ability to stay cool in the hot seat is truly admirable.
And soft spoken too.
Totally because I would have had to leave the room😭😭😭😭
@@gertrudesatekge2635like keiko or whatever
He rocks!!
Michael also speaking on what a woman goes through as a man is infuriating.
“It literally doesn’t know it’s being killed” sent chills down my spine.
It's not murder if you shoot people in their sleep because they didn't "know" they were being killed lol there is no pro abortion argument that doesn't lead to a logical fallacy.
@@mrjesuschrist2u Women ☕️
@mrjesuschrist2u Good point! I once heard a debate on this where the pro-life woman asked, if you drug a girl, grape her and destroy the evidence so that when she comes to she doesn't know it happened, why is it still a crime? Since she doesn't know it happened? The other debater muttered something about consent and she replied, a fetus doesn't consent to what happens to it either. Why is one a crime to you and the other? Her opponent had absolutely no response and never really recovered
What did you expect? These girls are in way above their heads. They are (insert name of state school) sorority girls debating a man with a dual degree from Yale. They got mollywopped. He literally mopped the floor with them. I see a well educated, well spoken man who is making logical arguments against brainwashed, sorority chicks who are simply building sentences around the buzzwords that are extent of their knowledge of the topic
@@bass7100 not exactly it’s more about it becoming a societal norm and everyone going with the crowd. Brainwashing
Michael is a gift from God. He is absolutely calm through this entire video. God bless the Knowles family!
Debating against six girls that all have opposite viewpoints from yours is more difficult than it looks. Especially when they are talking over and laughing at you the entire time. Despite that, Michael still put on a good show. Well done!
Got in an xbox arvument and when I asked "So you acknowledge it's alive and you still think you should be able to kill it" and they said "yes" i left. With some of these people, there's no saving.
@@wastelandlegocheem "Avoid such people," a wise word from 2 Timothy 3.
@@mengoinggodsway9024 honestly for the best. Yeah some peopke wake up, but if you're a fully grown ass man or woman that either acknowledges what they want is immiral or just denies, there's nothing that'll change their mind :(
For real !
Their bitterness and entitlement is really disgusting. Just the mocking and laughing at his belief in God makes them so gross. Like would you ever mock someone for their belief?
The fact that Keeko thinks she is more intelligent than most the people in the state of Tennessee is absolutely hilarious! She loves to talk about politics and has such strong views yet doesn’t even know some of the most basic things in politics.
Her reasoning for morality is also amazing. It boiled down to consensus. But not just consensus. Consensus among only those who are "educated". Like we don't know that education is a f*ckin joke in this country. What an insane elitist attitude.
The other "dumber" girls who had trouble articulating were actually closer to the mark. "The universe" gives them there morality... yes. That's correct ladies, and we have a word for that. Like we can debate back and forth all day about who God is and his nature and all that but MOST cultures throughout history have at least vaguely similar morality codes. Which was Michael's whole point they kept missing. They couldn't get past the word "religion".
I’m from tennessee and it’s so funny how many incredibly intelligent people that i know, (all of which are smarter than kiko). literally have vanderbilt, utk( one of the best nuclear engineering schools in the us), mtsu(one of the best schools for preservation of historical artifacts), tennessee tech, etc
Funny coming from the girl that wants to talk about hatred toward immutable traits and access to services because of them seriously considers southern states to be made up of unintelligent people - wild.
@@collierpawlowski7912yeah it's just a sad comment on how a lot of our schools, especially in blue states, do not so much "educate" these days as they just bury their poor students in endless leftist propaganda including the false notion that conservative states are somehow "less educated." Reminds me of how some people like to claim that racists are typically stupid and uneducated, but often if we are honestly assessing racism, it's the highly educated who are racist. Just look at all the prominent big name schools who were racist to, well, basically everyone thanks to affirmative action. They're racist to black people by assuming they need lower standards to get into school, and racist to everyone else by specifically excluding people who are not of the preferred race.
She thought Fetuses didnt have dna
Abortion doesn’t just kill the child. It eliminates that child’s descendants too, forever, into the future.
Tons of Grandparents have no Grandchildren.
That's a bad argument because the pro life movement is about snuffing out already realized life, not potential life. There's no reason to damage an already good argument.
It also sends the child to heaven 🤷🏻♂️
And hurts the woman in the process, double the risk of suicide and depression
@@MmM20978 how in the heck does that work. Your statement is factually incorrect. You simply cannot exist as a grandparent if you do not have a grandchild.
The patience this man has... my goodness! The immaturity and confident ignorance on display from some of these young ladies is maddening!
The girl on the right definitely doesn’t act like a lady 😂
My sister had an abortion at 15. Her then boyfriend died of cancer a bit later.
She lived a life that brought her to alcoholism and drugs through another boyfriend years later.
She was manipulated into getting her tubes tied.
He left her after that.
She's now an alcoholic who can't have kids, who is still grieving for her teenage boyfriend and the child she could have had to carry on his memory through the life of a child.
She hates herself and is distant from her nephews and nieces because it saddens her to be around children now.
She wanted babies. She loves babies.
Abortion is a lie. It hurts women.
That’s sad. But that is not representative of ALL women.
@@fileuserm93 it represents most. Modern women have been mislead into believing lies and pursuing instant gratification, as have young men. I genuinely wish the best for all these poor young men and women affected by this new mentality.
@Mandosaur
Nothing will represent ALL women because all women will NEVER be on the same page. So that's not a realistic point to make.
I choose to be a woman on the side of life, and a better future in where we teach proper education on failure rates of ALL contraceptives and forms of birth control. (Women aren't making an educated decision when they get an abortion, because they aren't being educated on it. No other medical precedure are we left in the dark by the doctor to the same degree).
Before, I was pro-abortion for no real reason other than selfish reasons if I myself become pregnant. Which I did. And I wanted an abortion. I was never blinded to believe it WASN'T a human life I would be snuffing out though. Not like the people of now, who will not admit what's inside a pregnant human woman.
I ultimately chose life, and it has led me to learn more than ever before about pregnancy, contraceptives, and abortion.
I CHOSE to be blind before.
I CHOSE to be ignorant to the truth. I'm 38 now with 4 kid.
I choose to be better for my kids.
I choose to actually educate them.
@@fileuserm93 An argument so generic, it means nothing.
@@DJSpike-ft9yw So why do you have a problem with a so-called "generic" argument? Your comment is generic also. Do you have a problem with your own "generic" response?
I was adopted and it was the BEST thing that ever happened to me!! I thank God every day for this because without it I wouldn't have my 3 wonderful children or my 7 fantastic grandchildren.
The argument of orphans better off being killed is fucking disheartening
I told myself that if I never have kids of my own, I would choose to adopt. Mainly because I think kids are great and think that they deserve someone in their life who wants to be.
I had a debate and the girl said that it was better to kill a baby then to have them live a 'traumatic, worthless life'
Lulz, I read "adopted" as "aborted" and was like hey that is some nice sarcasm.
That’s 10 humans being and counting that would not exist if your mother got an abortion. How does the pro abortion movement not see anything wrong with this?
I had a miscarriage when I was only six weeks along. She was my child, even though she was only six weeks in my stomach. Her name was Mallory. Do not tell me they are not important if they have not been born yet. I grieved for her then even though I was not ready for another child. And I still grieve for her 19 years later. I cannot wait to meet her when I get to heaven.
My sympathy, condolences, and prayers are with you. My wife had a miscarriage also. It was absolutely devastating. The child was supposed to be born this month. I people who are pro abortion, have no idea what they are talking about.
I’m so sorry to hear that, that bought tears to my eyes 🥺
As a man that has lost 3 unborn children to complications, I too, can’t wait to meet all 3 in heaven.
@@PrivateInformation-xn1mlan abortion is just if I kill you to get your money.
you lose your life for my "happyness"
I don't love you BTW, do I have the right to kill you??
the baby inside the killer mom, is NOT part of her body!!!
if he/she would be, abortions would be very painfull...
and they're but only for... guess who?? only for the baby who gets cut into pieces without anesthesia!!!!
let's see how would you feel if someone cuts your liver or your pancreas into pieces...
those are indeed part of your body!!!
not the baby.
the fetus, baby, human being is NOT part of your body.
regardless of your narcissistic feelings for him/her.
they don't even care to give him/her anesthesia.
So imagine if someone with a sierra, cuts you into pieces (whithout giving you anesthesia or anything)
that's exactly what that baby feels.
You don't have the right to brutally murder someone, just because you don't love him/her.
and we ALL have memorys from when we were at mom's womb.
you can not access those like that, anyway, your subcounscious mind, it's rules by those besides the after born memorys.
the baby is another human being... with half of your DNA.
only 50%... which means it's not you!!! your liver is 100% ur DNA. Do you get it??
@squibbelsmcjohnson wonderful thing about brains and morals you seem to have lost yours if you think abortion isn't 1st degree murder
Every time he says something and sorta chuckles, they all start snickering like middle school mean girls. Shows where their maturity level is
I always like how we ignore the choice of not having sex with someone at a time when you aren’t fully prepared and responsible enough to have a child
i highly agree, but i also wish they talked more about the scenarios in which a women is graped. i’ve started to lean more towards pro-life, but can’t really seem to justify it in grape situations
I guess it comes down to: is it ever justifiable to take a human life? And when you talk about abortion of babies conceived in violence, you usually come from the perspective that it would avoid the mother's suffering but: a) it's not okay to kill innocent life to avoid something that you *assume* she might go through, as one act of violence doesn't justify the other (the act of killing the baby), and b) it doesn't guarantee a suffering-free life for the mother, because the whole process of abortion is also traumatizing and can cause many physical and psychological complications. Added to the fact that she doesn't stop being a mother, she just becomes a mother of a dead child.
Also, take note of many women who were in this situation and actually say that the child saved them from depression for example, because it gave them a higher purpose in life, something to fight for. But many do give the baby to adoption too and that's fine bc it gives them a chance to live.
The " grape " scenario isn't discussed as much because....... it accounts for like 1 percent of abortions.
That would mean holding women accountable, and we all know _you can't do thaaat_
@@lemonkissed201 I was a product of grape and I feel so blessed that my mom didn't punish me for the crime of my father. My life hasn't been perfect, I've been in and out of the foster system but I get to experience the beauty of the life that God has given me and it's a beautiful thing regardless of how I was conceived.
At their age I was also pro choice. Then I became a nurse and started working in labor and delivery. I am firmly pro life.
The only difference is ignorance. You were ignorant and now you are not. Very sad people need to see to understand sometimes. God bless you for realizing and changing your mind!
Truth comes from life experiences.
Its crazy how stupid ppl are. These girls wouldnt be here if their moms were pro choice. How stupid is this generation
If NASA found a clump of cells on Mars they would be jumping up and down with excitement shouting we've found life 🇬🇧
I was pro choice at their age too. I am avidly pro life now. I don’t believe there are any good reasons to have an abortion.
Michael is so patient. You can tell the woman on the right just wants to hear herself talk and let’s everything go in one ear and out the other
Funny thing is she's thrown several temper tantrums and stormed off the show a couple of times.
Yes exactly what i thought, only the other way around.
They shaming Michael for livening in Tennessee…. That’s disgusting and if u heard somone say that to me I’d laugh because - yall fr think California is superior to another state ??? No that’s not how it works💀 education is not all book smarts or woke smarts .
Micheal is WAY too intelligent for this podcast 😂
Co sign
Facts
thank you
True. The intelligence of these girls is far below average. (And average these days is not very good).
He lost some intellect talking to these jackasses .
The girl in blue surprised me, she had more thoughtful responses and even asked her peers some questions. She seemed like she was actively listening to arguments and not just thinking of a rebuttal. Maybe some minds were changed by this discussion. Nobody else mentioned it so I just wanted to give her a shoutout.
My thoughts exactly. The one on the far right though needs to go back to the bar.
@@dbdgrumpy1521 they cut her off though
@@dbdgrumpy1521 For real. I kept thinking, "That one's never gonna get wifed up."
She’s my favorite singer! She’s the lead singer of Edge of Paradise!
group think and removing consequences overides sense
One of the things i actually appreciate and admire Michael for is that no matter what heinous or ridiculous things these girls say, he stays calm and emotionally removed. He never condescends to them; he jokes and speaks with levity but I feel Michael is legitimately trying to educate these women and the audience of the podcast
He understands scripture and it shows.
That room must’ve smelled like 🐟
True
I think its cuz at the end of the day, even though he knows none of the 6 girls in front of him will change their minds...some of the thousands of people tuning into the podcast who share similar pro-choice beliefs may be open to listening to what he has to say. And maybe have a more open mind.
Cuz a lot of these pro-choice people say the same garbage that these girls do. Watching others make your arguments as apposed to arguing yourself, removes some of the emotion that goes into your reasoning/logic. Hearing their arguments/beliefs crumble second hand can be impactful to those who share them
To be honest, if he was really trying to convince them and plant a seed of doubt about their stances on abortion, he should have coddled their egos a lot more than he did. But it doesn't seem like Michael is that kind of person, and I respect him for it. However, in quite a literal and strategic sense, his steadfast nature in his beliefs is not convincing any of those women. As a conservative intellectual, he can not afford to lose face in any way in an abortion debate, regardless of how trivial. That's why he has such an assertive demeanor.
Oh moral relativism. Everybody knows nothing and nobody's right about anything. A literal self contradicting statement
It’s such a funny stance people try to defend.
I was pro choice when I was young. When I was 18 my older sister found out she was pregnant. She was determined to get an abortion. Strangely enough one day she ended up miscarrying. She told me she needed to go to planned Parenthood and wanted me to go along with her. I did. I sat in the office waiting room and there were about 6 other young girls there. One was heavily pregnant. They all were talking amongst themselves as I sat there silently. The heavily pregnant girl was telling the other young woman that she is almost 5 months and there to have the surgery because she just wasn't ready. She said something that stopped my in my tracks. She said well I am going to miss the little baby kicks. The baby is kicking right now. I kid you not I got up and walked out. My older sister came out with a brown paper bag. I knew that that was. It wasn't a miscarriage. She was getting an abortion as well.
When I found out I was pregnant at 20 abortion never crossed my mind. He's 11 now.
wow yea that's just horrifying stuff if you live to 100 i reckon you will still be able to Crystal clear remember that girl in the Abortion Clinic stuff like that stays with you for a lifetime
Sadly that 5 month pregnant woman is not an exception, she is in fact a disturbingly common occurrence. 😖
@@cami4CYeshua787 It was the lack of shame and casualty the way she spoke about killing her own baby that was kicking her all of the time that took me aback. At 18 I didn't really have an opinion. I was so young. Until that moment. That hurt my soul. Once I became pregnant seeing that baby on the scans and feeling those little kicks. Still young as well. I just couldn't understand how someone could do that. I still remember what she looked like. The way she spoke and her facial expressions.
I never really looked at my sister the same either. The father was her fiance and he wanted a baby. She never told him she was pregnant. She just took the pills to rid herself of that baby. My niece or nephew. I still think about what could have been to this day.
I was raped but he’s now 35, and he saved my life ten years ago now by picking me up off the bed and driving me to the hospital in rush hour traffic where I had emergency surgery ten minutes after arrival. A relative said afterwards, “I guess it’s good she didn’t abort you.”
He told me this and said, how many people have to justify their own existence by saving a life?
He’s my pride and joy. When a child of rape gets born, mom isn’t reminded of the rapist at all. I realized he was MY child immediately. He’s not a reminder of his father. He’s more a reminder of MY father. Looks a lot like my dad, his grandfather. Funny how that works out.
The reason why pro life is being so active now is because of things like this. For decades the pro life side have been quiet due to abortions being limited to the early weeks of pregnancy. That ideology started to expand for various reasons like health of the mother/baby opening the door to voluntary later abortion to some today advocating for up to and some even after birth.
12:01 “no one needed to teach me killing some one is bad.” Also “I should have the right to kill babies in the womb.” Cognitive dissonance is strong with her.
It's called double digit IQ paired with hypocrisy.
Don’t forget she also thinks that people who are in a coma should be killed to 💀
It’s honestly so smug and gross the way they look at entire states and say those people are just uneducated.
facts...ignorance is bliss.....for your enemies.....
The idea that they can talk about anyone for being uneducated when they themselves sound totally ignorant.
Hell is pure narcissism.
Right? Only idiots believe in the sanctity of life, you gotta be real smart to lack personal responsibility and only assign value to hedonistic freedom. So disgusting.
They really represented their state right?, Lol!
i’m 24. i used to think like these girls. i had a full change in thinking at around 22. i pray one day their minds are changed
I used to be like this too. I’m so happy that I never had an abortion before I eventually learned the truth. I was lucky enough to be saved.
Well you can help these girls change too by talking to the people you know!
@@HandledToaster2 i do! 🫶
I've argued about abortion with 2 educated women at once and I thought that was exhausting. I can't imagine doing it with 6 uneducated ones.
Educated does not equal wisdom
@@abundantangel6376 or intellect, just because someone’s educated, that doesn’t automatically mean that they’re intelligent
It's difficult to win an argument against a smart person, but it's impossible to win an argument against a stupid person.
Never play chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how well you do. In the end, it'll knock down all of the pieces and crap on the board.
@@abundantangel6376kinda does.
I have so much respect for Michael. His patience is amazing. These ladies are so typical of today's empty indoctrinated youth. So sad.
They are stupid. Just plain stupid.
5 disgusting women and 1 Gentle-Man.
I do not believe these girls are typical, these girls are atypical. They do have a louder voice than well-behaved morally centered girls, but are not representative of the majority of girls their age in America.
I am so impressed with Michael's patience with these girls. It's like debating 16 year olds. So ignorant & Kiko sadly is so arrogant. It's really sad. I pray that God wakes them up & saves them.
Where did they find them? On some college campus?
My only issue with Michaels discussions is that there’s no need to bring religion into arguments that can easily and more effectively shut down the opposing views
@@Mumu-qq1sm Yet religion or Christianity more pricisely is in everything we do
@@sarathomas8499 True but most people who support abortion don't want to hear any argument concerning God. Better to argue the biology route because a "fetus" fits the biological definition of life. Once you establish yes this is a life there's no denying that it is in fact taking a life. From there the really callous abortion supporters still don't care though.
I actually think Kiko came off the most scared.
The BMJ’s Journal of Medical Ethics report entitled “Reconsidering Fetal Pain” really throws a wrench in this idea that first and second trimester prenatal children aren’t conscious.
Michael is truly a man of God, his ability to not get upset or angry with these women is so admirable to me. He inspires me to get my temper in check, not just for me but for God mainly.
I'm allergic to stupidity, so it's pretty easy for me to lose my temper in such a debate. I give Michael a lot of credit for debating six women at the same time on something that's considered a women's issue.
And not only does he keep his temper but he stays friendly towards them the whole time. Very impressive
@squibbelsmcjohnsonThe God whose word has been the foundation of our civilization for thousands of years, you ignoramus.
@squibbelsmcjohnson false gods are not God there is one God he sent his son Yeshua to die on the cross so you could be saved and have everlasting life repent before its to late God bless you brother Jesus loves you!!!!!
l
The amount of times they interrupted him when he was just about to mow down their arguments is truly astonishing. Kudos to Michael for having the patience of a saint.
Those girls would argue rings around you dude
@@Andrew_Cotton way to lie to his face
@@Andrew_Cotton when they learn to wait their turn maybe we'll know, until then they have yet to make an argument
It's their toxic masculinity coming out.
He knows just how pathetic their arguments are. Just dust in the wind.
My goodness, when Keeko went to the bathroom, the conversation was actually going somewhere. The SECOND she came back it was like all intelligence and reason in the room died all over again
Lol yes. Her speaking is making me feel dumber by the second. I hate it. I hope this is her last visit to the show. It’s no longer fun or funny. Just gross. Lost cause, truly.
💯
So true
The other girls are willing to debate and discuss. Keeko sounds like she is speaking out her butt.
@@mrchone84 A lot of men don't realize why many hold this line so vehemently. It's not just "change your position" for many women. They're victims of a social engineering that has normalized abortion, and culture-pinned it to make-women-men feminism. Either consciously or subconsciously women who have had abortions cannot switch in the face of logic or reason. When/If they do, the psyche must contemplate complicity in a murder. The defense mechanisms backed by remorse/fear/survival/shame/guilt/selfishness are a helluva thing. It's a triggered survival mode taking over. It's why you can't ask the question "Who here has had abortions? Raise of hands...."
They complain about bad men and the struggle to find a good man. Well, look where you're looking for them. At parties and places where no good guy will ever be.
I was pregnant at 15. Every person in my life pushed abortion. From counselors to family. They said I would never make anything of myself by having a baby at a young age. I was so scared and I considered it for such a short time. But I realized I made a mistake an innocent baby didn't make the it and should not have to pay for it. I kept him and he is 14 and just a beautiful soul. He is kind and caring and smart. On the honor roll and athletic. He is the best thing that ever happened to me. I struggled a little bit but I grew up quick . I don't regret it. I got my GED and I'm in college to further my education.
Thank you for sharing, beautiful story
You made the right decision. God bless you and your son.
Absolutely fantastic to hear! It's quite commendable of you to oppose the advice given to you out of your own good conscience.
That is great and it is powerful.. you made it work, you struggled, you came out on top. This is something these weak girls here on this show could never do. They do not take responsibilities, they have no character nor morals.. they take the easy way and they want to take the easiest path of no resistance!! They are weak and this love of self over everyone else is a very sad life. I would never date cowards such as these weak self loving women.. there are so many good women out there who care for others.
That's such a great anecdote..... bc YOU decided to keep your kid..
Pro-choice
The girl in blue agrees with Michael low key. Hopefully she fully embraces the right path.
No coincidence that she is the most intelligent woman there and the most attractive. She is well spoken too.
@@FitGuyAZ577 she’s always like that. She enjoys listening to other perspectives and is always eager to learn.
Keeko is the most immoral woman I’ve ever seen. I’m so serious 😂
Ya, she's not long for this world.
Facts!!!!!!
She's clearly struggling because she's had an abortion herself.
She's been through it and she knows how wrong she felt and how bad she felt. The anger is because she has tried to justify it intellectually and has built up walls.
She'll reap what she sews
I really appreciate how Michael always brings up God and how his arguments always relate back to Him. So many conservatives are scared to do this because it's so easy to dismiss these arguments.... But it's just the truth, and it ALWAYS comes back down to God. God bless Mikey!
Kiko being so pissed ab the convo not going her way is so fantastic to watch. She’s definitely masking the pain of killing her unborn baby with anger
YES
tragic
She's masculine AF!!! I feel sorry for any guy that dates her!!
Guilt !!!
Omg yes! My thoughts exactly
I was pro choice as a young girl.
Around 28 I became pro life. I never thought I would change my mind.
What changed your mind?
the big 3 0
People who say they will never chance their mind on something just shows they are not educated enough. You can say you are pretty sure you won't but to say you know you will never change your mind...Especially after you already said you changed your mind on something else that you sid you would never change your mind? That's fear of liberals coming after them speaking.
I became pro life when I watched videos on drs explaining the process of dismantling a child who's alive over the course of hours, while I was trying for a child and looking into their development of their bodies etc. A woman who aborts or is pro abortion are simply women who have been taught what motherhood is about, women are taught that it's a career or life ender... but they aren't taught what happens after.
Same …
Thank you for all you do Michael. I tried to watch the full video but had to stop at 18:32 when the “what’s 5 months” comment was made. It made me cry instantly. I was 5 months pregnant when I gave birth to my living and breathing son. I could feel his heart beating while I held his little body in my hands. It disgusts me to think there are people in this world that willingly mutilate innocent babies.
Yeah... One of the women started talking of "parasytes"
As a man and you looking for a woman, its not easy in this day and age to find a partner...looks, personality sure are good things , morality and ethics i feel are becoming even more important in this age.
@@JPHER217 Morality and ethics were always the most important, but most people never have held them as uncompromisable.
Karla, I agree. I for about two months was sure I was pregnant and I was just about to schedule my appointment with my obgyn when I got my period. I cried. The young lady spoke as if babies in the womb are nothing (or worse a parasite?) I was already imagining my baby and shopping for her/him. It was sad. My husband and I were so excited.
I’m listening to this currently 5 months pregnant. My baby is a whole baby. He’s kicking and moving around. He’s around 7inches long and half a pound already. His heart has been beating for months now. It breaks my heart knowing there are women willingly walking into those clinics.
I'm so sorry Karla. Very very sorry. It's sad to hear someone so dismissive of something so precious.
There is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that link doesn't look too good.
“I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born.”
-Ronald Reagan
Is that somehow an argument against abortion?
@@PsychologyAttack sounds like a joke towards them
@GetsaucedOn It does, I was questioning what was implied by the original sentence. I though the logic was wrong. Sure, people wouldnt be born if abortion woukd be performed on them and tlso they woukd not grow into human beings with a position of pro abortion. But the same can be said about condoms lets say. So I was wondering if its an argument somehow, or just some funny line
@@PsychologyAttackhaha the difference is that a condom doesn't let unique DNA start forming and prevents conception from ever happening, therefore negating the current debate. It's a very good argument though, the rich make decisions for the rich because they are rich and you may get hurt but to them they are making the right decision.
@@PsychologyAttack Kind of. It highlights the fact that anyone arguing in favor of babies not being born for any reason is inherently hypocritical, contradictory and biased. But you kind of have to be able to go beyond the surface of a statement to see these things.
I have no idea how he stays so calm. No one follows his logic, everyone ignores him and laughs at him, none of them are actually interested in the other side of the argument, I'm amazed he didn't yell once
no LITERALLY. cudos to him honestly.
I know right! I got so angry watching this debate and imagined myself in the midst of it. Unfortunately, I would've become aggressive. I really respect and admire Michael's patience and calmness. I think it makes him more effective in debate.
What it does though is show people who are still on the fence see that conservatism is better than liberalism
The panel is so disrespectful. They'd all be kicked off any debate team.
The girl with the blue sleeves actually seems like a genuinely nice person. I’ve seen her in a few clips and generally speaking she is much more respectful and respectable than the other monstrosities at the table. She seems to want genuine answers to things and doesn’t snigger with the other girls like a child. I wish more were like her rather than like keeko who just loves the sound of her own low iq opinions.
Yeah she’s insufferable. I couldn’t continue watching because of her.
She's not bad to look at either
keeko just talks and talks constantly interrupting people its highly infuriating
@@Idk.lol7689she looks miserable
The only defense these women have is to laugh at Michael and belittle him. I’m strongly pro-life, but I’m having a hard time even considering their point of view given that they are presenting it like a bunch of silly teenage girls.
(This is a woman posting on my husband’s account FYI)
Every time Michael speaks, I gain a ton of respect for him!
Thanks for standing up for us!
it's kinda sad that you feel you can't stand up for yourself. Personal empowerment is possible for everyone. Look at these girls. They spoke powerfully in defense of their positions. Well done, ladies
@@katenoke1571 Not really they kept going in circles and then contradicted themselves for the last 10 minutes.
@@katenoke1571 you don’t have to disagree with everyone, you’re stupid 😂
@@katenoke1571 omg such delusion. They're children. I feel so sorry for them. It's tragic.
@@bass7100 lol. They're just fine. You guys, on the other hand...
Dude, you just argued with six girls at once. That's an accomplishment. I'm Catholic and I thank you for leading this fight.
Yours in Christ
William
Dude, he argued with six girls at once... and LIVED.
His powers are beyond our understanding.
@@piotrekszczepanski5125 Powers of the Holy spirit
Michael is also catholic, so is Matt! A fact: The catholic church opposes abortion, if you disobey you are no longer in the catholic church.
Stop simping on this idiot Willie
He specifically picked them, he wouldnt stand a chance with an academic or scholar....
Which is why he's never had such people on
@@dezlovecraft5247 Saint Ambrose Is my Confirmation Saint. i chose him because more Bishops need to act like him. i'm so glad that more and more Catholics join the fight.
Michael is by far the best guest on this podcast. As annoying as it can be to debate some of these topics, he does it in such a civil way. Definitely well respected
They hear "religion" and assume that means only the set religions such as Christianity, Catholicism, etc. What they don't understand is that "religion" is also just their set of beliefs. Their "universe" is a form of religion
Well she was honest at that point : “I believe we live in a video game…”
low resolution thinking, what do you expect?
@@luqmanalatas8418 fr man, I'm in college and I can't tell you how many people I've spoken too that don't realize that their belief system is a form of religion. They try and be special but end up conforming to just a different kind of religion
@@Enderitoexactly
Beliefs and religion are not the same thing. Nor are morals and religion.
Religion involves beliefs and morals, but beliefs and morals do not have to involve religion.
Religion is, specifically, belief in some greater power above us all. And then you act in accordance with the rules that that greater power deems important. You don't have a say in what is and isn't an important rule to follow, that is beyond your control.
Beliefs and morals, however, are products of the rational mind. You can reason that something is right or wrong and then act accordingly of your own accord. That's why non-religious people's beliefs and morals don't always match religious people's beliefs and morals. The individual determines for one's self what they think is a suitable way to act towards others or what they themselves consider to be the most important things to pursue in life.
A lot of laws are based off of this idea. Rationally, what's right and what's wrong, using something as a gauge to go by.
That's also why a lot of laws aren't moral according to religious belief systems.
I had a girlfriend that got pregnant when we were young back in the 90’s and we discussed it, agreed on having the baby, then 2 weeks later she aborted and said I owed money to pay for the abortion, nope. 29 years later I still wonder about that, we reconnected a couple years ago briefly on FB and talked about that with her still wondering what that baby would be today. It NEVER goes away, it’s never forgotten, it’s permanently changed forever even after abortion. I’m still angry about it to this day, that’ll never change.
This made me so sad. I’m 29 and was born to a teen mother ‘93. She definitely considered it and luckily pushed through. I’m so sorry you continue to had/have to go through that❤
Similar here as an ex aborted without my input.
Who would've thought that twenty years later, I'd be sitting here with no children pondering what could've been.
I feel like the effects after having an abortion are not talked about enough. My good friend had an abortion years ago, and she was in a deep depression for almost a year after, and it still affects her today.
@@HolaYarii
Murder will have that effect on people.....
@@mephInc GOLD… unless you are a sociopath or something
Oh my goodness, I can feel my brain cells slipping away listening to this. If not for Michael balancing out the stupidity, I'd be screwed. Thanks Michael! 👍🏻
lol, bro, had no braincells left in mine, thank you for speaking it out for us that has nothing left.
You literally took the words out of my mouth!
When they were talking about him elevating the average IQ of the state of Tennessee, I couldn't help but notice the irony of them being completely unaware that he was also elevating the average IQ of the room.
Californian PhD here and I’m pro life. Her argument about education and abortion holds no water with me 😂
Thanks for your words 🙏🏼
Yeah that girl was definitely flexing her bigotry 😂
Very punny.
My husband has a PhD in a science field, I have a bachelors in a science field. We are both pro-life, conservative and religious Christians lol
Good for you! I’m glad you aren’t swayed by that bull-crap education system of educational oligarchy
For those who are with abortion, let me just say this, thanks to your mother not aborting you, your able to comment here ;)
She was legit calling babies “parasites” these people are sick in the head
loud, obnoxious brat
Thats when you know NO ONE should even listen to what she has to say
Symbiotic parasites, if we're talking dictionary definition terminology 🤷 they feed off their host (mother) in order to grow but since that is the function of the womb it's a symbiotic system by nature. Unless something goes wrong in the development cycle, then they can become just parasites which in many historical examples leads to the death of their host organism (mother)...actually wait, I remember being a child and can say with absolute certainty that I along with every other child I've ever met since then are definitely little money draining parasites. And to planet earth the whole of humanity is one big ole parasitic superorganism. It's okay to be offended, but at least be honest about why, because truth hurts. Sweet dreams earth fam
It's so illogical to call them parasites too, parasites are biologically designed to take from the host, causing harm, or in the case of a symbiotic relationship, sometimes helping the host. A parasite can always willingly leave it's host if it feels threatened. In utero a baby can just leave, and it's not stealing from the mothers, the mother's bother biologically starts to grow the baby taking care of it, not because the baby wills it, but because the mother's body wills it.
@@nyxionn the fact alone, that someone feels the need to explain this!!!!
Funny thing is Michael can always school people without raising his voice.
He will stay silent when people scream and talk over him and then continue as if nothing when they’re done. 😅
I think that’s what makes people mad, the fact that he never loses his cool, and he even smiles and smirks while people are making their dumb points. 😅
that's the peace of being on God's side
Yeah that true, his rhetoric is very good, but that doesn't mean that his opinion are right, they are just better articulated.
It's Christlike peace ,it angers demonic people 😅
@@JustFun-wl3jfhe is right
@Србомбоница 🇷🇸 I phrase it different, he cant be wrong if he justifies all things with god. To argue against that, you first have to argue against his beliefs im god. Thats not the debate.
Knowles is the kind of figure who really belongs on these types of podcasts, because he is an amazing debater, but so calm in the same time. Couldn't image Ben Shapiro in the same atmosphere.
Michael has a great personality and that breaks down these nonsense girls. He's the gentleman and dad figure type they never had and prob never will have.
@@DoeDonDoe
It's kinda crazy that he's like the youngest man at the DW, yet his maturity levels are right up there with Andrew Klavan!
@@sethfeldpausch4337 klavan would argue with you that he's mature.
Or, Matt Walsh
Knowles is the one gem in that den of snakes. Which gives me pause but he at least seems to practice what he preaches.
Im thankful my oldest was not aborted by her teenage mother. She is outspoken about her pro life stance. She played college basketball and sadly stated to me once that 10 out of 12 girls on the team were pro choice. Im proud of her that she stood up and corrected the girls when a sick joke was made about the abortion issue. I believe many kids are blessed that she is their school teacher. And im blessed now she will be giving me my first grandchild in two weeks. Life is precious even though theres evil in the world.
19:49 This is how my baby cousin was adopted. Her biological parents were heroine addicts and still had the sense to give her up for adoption. I’m so glad for that since she is the sweetest child and our whole family is so happy to have her around.
Imagine that tar addicts having more sense than these little girls. Hoping soon the government gets taken out of schools so teachers can teach again otherwise we will keep going backwards instead of making things better.
that's not the point, the point is that if she was aborted, you wouldn't even have met her, so you wouldn't miss her, you would have met another adopted baby from your brother or sister and loved her or him the same.
@@alejandrohayling8381 It’s better that my cousin is alive, thank you very much. Unless you disagree, in which case I would not trust you around children. Her being given life was a great thing for our family.
@@ianquyck9834 I'm not saying she 'should not' be alive, just try to think of it in a more objective scientific way ... If she wasn't born, there is no possible way that you would've missed her, you wouldn't even have met her.
@@alejandrohayling8381 those of us born post Roe are surrounded by the ghosts of siblings, cousins, and friends we have no idea we're missing.
The better question is "can you kill the person in a coma if you knew for certain they would wake up in 9 months?"
That one girl is pure evil, saying to kill people in comas just because she felt like she'd not want to live while in a coma. I bet if you were able to ask her after she woke up from a coma if she'd prefer death then she'd say no, and thank her family and her doctors for not pulling the plug. She's so short sighted.
Crowder has done amazing things for the pro-life conversation
Edit: princess-life to pro-life. I don’t know what Crowder has added to the princess-life conversation, but it’d be a great skit
Dayumm bro that's deep, but these bitches won't think through.. not that their words have meaning or impact over any logical thinking human being.
Nothing spells immaturity more than someone who says they will never change their mind no matter what.
um, I believe it is known as having the courage of your convictions?
Factz
I agree. She’s just a young girl who isn’t able express her views intellectually so she masks it with a nonchalant attitude.
@@katenoke1571 🤣
@@cmaintainer4029 good for her, right? Nice to see kids making a stand
When I was younger, my friend told me that his mother was raped when she was young. She kept the baby, did not abort. She had 2 more children afterwards (my friend was the middle child). They considered each other brothers. No one felt excluded or anything. They were a happy family. I think you can turn something so horrible into something so great and beautiful. Just because something horrible happens doesn't mean that you need to do something horrible as well.
“I’m not hedonistic”
Proceeds to explain how only her satisfaction in the present matters to her.
No self- awareness 😭
Some of these women have absolutely no clue how deeply evil they are and Michael Knowles handled this with grace.
they are ghastly.
I do not believe that most of them are evil. They have been misled and lied to by society for their entire lives. Most can be saved.
@@chuckhoyle1211 Except they are evil. You can argue that they're unaware of the evil nature of their actions, but even that is BS because they're old enough to know better. Everything that is good comes from God, and everything that is evil strays from God. It's that simple.
@@chuckhoyle1211
Well, we are actually all evil to one degree or another. But this does not account for the particular evil these girls possess to rapidly defend the murder of the most innocent and vulnerable people among us. Of course they can all be saved, all could even be brought to a place where they change their mind concerning abortion, but they have all heard the other side of the argument also, as they did here. We've all been lied to, but the conscience does not allow many people to except the lie. Moreover, if you look at the way each one of them was dressed (to a debate no less), it's pretty clear to see the ulterior motive they have for being pro-choice.
@@NovusIgnis i believe the girl in the light-blue outfit is inherently good, just too agreeable and guillable to take a stand on what she believes in.
"In your universe, you could pretend to be a bug with 17 arms, that doesn't make it true" - Best quote I've heard in a very long time
I support Micheal’s point of views 100%.
In 1999 I was 19 years old and got my girlfriend pregnant. She was dead set on abortion and had one. I feel guilt daily, 24 years later. I can’t imagine the guilt a woman can feel.
Hey brother, I'm sorry! There's freedom and forgiveness waiting for you. Seek it if you haven't already.
@@j-yakk 🙏🙏
Bro similar experience, although I’m happily married and have two kids, we pray daily for my unborn kid, I had no saying on the abortion back then, my ex already made up her mind
cant imagine that feeling. being a dad is the best thing ever and yours would be in his 20s now, who knows what sort of things that the world missed out on cause of all the people these women just decide dont get to live.
bro trust me you don't want a tie to your teenage girlfriend for the next 18 years, nor do you want a kid at 19/20. It was her decision. Neither of you have anything to feel guilty about
I’m honestly extremely proud of how Michael handled these women. He was calm, collected, clearly stated facts and also kept everything centered around God. He knew the purpose of this conversation wasn’t to demoralize or destroy these women as they weren’t a political opponent or someone who wields great influence/power so they didn’t require his full ferocity. He also didn’t ever feel the need to use secular scientific arguments which by themselves will destroy the abortion argument on their own merit. He kept it all centered around God because he understands that these women aren’t ill intentioned or bad actors; they’re Godless and lost. Indoctrinated. Hurt. Failed by society and a gross culture that glorifies the worst in us. We’re fallen. And so Michael could again destroy all of their points with scientific arguments about when life begins and viability and all those things but he chose to stay on God and that God exists. To get them thinking just a little more and get them to notice the absurdity of their claims. To pay attention. To be a little more careful about their claims and what they’re willing to just blurt out. They may not have been converted but that wasn’t the point. The point was to get them actually scraping the rust off their prefrontal cortex and actually use their brains
I think the best question to present to someone who doesn’t believe in God is “Where do your morals come from?” and “Why do you believe something is inherently wrong or right?” That girl who said she’s had her morals since she was born and that no one taught them to her is lying. Her parents taught them to her. We are taught wrong from right. And this has been passed down since Adam & Eve ate the forbidden fruit.
@@HeyoChris, right and wrong are RELATIVE. 😉
Incidentally, Slave, are you VEGAN? 🌱
He handled the conversation with women. He didn't handle women lol
@@hughmungus431, kindly repeat that in ENGLISH, Miss.☝️
Incidentally, Slave, are you VEGAN? 🌱
He probably got their phone numbers when he left
The fact that they think they're so smart and Michael is on a different level and they can't even comprehend they're being schooled is astounding. Whoever dates these women is screwed, do not marry these women
The single most ignorant thing a person could ever say is "No matter what, my mind could never be changed"