I Understand Why You Think These Bands Suck (w/Martin Popoff)
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- Опубліковано 24 бер 2022
- Join Pete Pardo & Martin Popoff as they discuss some bands that the other doesn't like, and why they understand their perceived 'suckiness'.
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Pete has said for years, "we all hear music differently". This episode shows it.
A lot of episodes show it.
MANY of his eps. have shown it before this.
Something to like about the Ramones for Pete. One of my students covered a Ramones song in a contest for our schools Ukulele Club. CJ Ramone, their later day bassist, saw the video, started reposting it and asking his followers to support it and help the student win the contest and an ukulele (she did win). I later got in touch with him, and he reached out to the student who was going through some tough times. I don't listen Ramones, but have a huge respect for CJ and their fans. To notch people.
Martin doesn't like Grand Funk? The wild, shirtless lyrics of Mark Farner? The bong-rattling bass of Mel Schacher? The competent drum work of Don Brewer? Oh man!
The critics hated GFR but the masses knew better. GFR were the original garage band from humble roots who rose up into a giant act. Over-hyping by Terry Knight hurt them in the critics' eyes. As such I doubt we'll ever see them get inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, even though they are far more deserving than dozens of acts who have been.
Love Grand Funk and "The Simpsons" reference! :-)
Grand Funk were massively hyped here in the UK and just couldn't live up to it.
HOMER!
Popoff has lousy taste in rock.
Martin Popof loves Punk. Pete can't stand Punk. It's great that these 2 can get together and engage in an intelligent conversation with total respect for each other's musical interests. It's a shame no one in the comments seems to be able to debate on this level, and quit with the insults of people who don't 100% agree with their opinions.
It's the communication limits from text only
@@Tikitackfouls I'm glad someone else has acknowledged that fact
I once worked with a bloke called Mick who saw *The Clash* 57 times. He was a good 12 years older than me so he would have been just the right age to get into them when they were starting out. I am very hit and miss with them. They had some superb moments (‘London Calling’, ‘Clampdown’, ‘Train in Vain’, ‘The Magnificent Seven’) but too many of their songs go nowhere for me. That said, it is pretty clear that they were a pretty stunning live act once Paul Simonon had learnt to play. I’d love to have seen them at their Bond International Casino shows in New York City in 1981. They looked fantastic at that time, too, which is always a plus point.
Another friend of mine Jo was a promoter in London in the late ‘80s and booked *Nirvana* into a tiny venue around the time of ‘Bleach’. Kurdt (as he was then) was so skint he asked her to buy her a pint of Guinness, which she did. I saw them later in 1991 at the Kilburn National on the ‘Nevermind’ tour. The evening didn’t start well as shortly after entering the venue this drunk kid staggered past me and punched me in the face. “Good evening to you too,” I thought to myself as he was escorted from the building. Nirvana were good, loads of energy, I remember quite enjoying it. I have little interest these days in the shouty stuff, but I absolutely love ‘Unplugged in New York’, which for me is by far and away the best thing they ever did.
*U2* is a strange case. One of the finest concerts I ever saw was their show at Wembley Arena on ‘The Joshua Tree’ tour in 1987. They were truly stunning, filled with the confidence of knowing they were on the cusp of being the biggest band in the world (they played the stadium a few months later). ‘Rattle and Hum’ was a bit pompous and a bore, but then I really liked much of ‘Achtung Baby’ (‘One’ is a classic). I enjoy the music they made from 1983-1987 most. Their recent albums I haven’t investigated as the singles they released made me want to throw my radio out of the window. And Bono has become insufferably self-important with his shades, his proselytising and his sodding hair dye. My favourite Bono moment took place at the Live 8 concert in 2006. He stood on the stage and announced, “Every time I click my fingers - CLICK, CLICK, CLICK - a child in Africa dies.” Up pops a lone voice from the crowd - “WELL STOP FUCKING DOING IT THEN!”
LOL
Are you a writer? Your storytelling is really entertaining!
@@SH-ud8wd No, I like writing though. Thanks for the compliment!
Pete's poker face in full-effect during Martin's Nirvana pick. 😂😂😂
The concept for this episode is gold!
@@miketheyunggod2534 LOL!!! Yeah, it's just about always a guarantee you'll see that face anytime someone else in these videos waxes poetic about an artist Pete can't stand; It gets me laughing to no end, lol!
I completely get his comments on Nirvana, but to be honest I don't know how I feel concerning his comments on Kurt Cobain, the guy seemed genuinely like a good person from the interviews I've seen from him, what happened was really a shame
@@alternativepreacher4516 Kurt was a real dude, one in a million with his mindset combined with his talent. You hear those early demos when he was a teenager and you can tell this guy might need some meds, instead he turns to dope to help suppress his rage. I'm not a huge Nirvana fan, I think the early stuff like Bleach had a lot of potential. If they could harness the things that worked, I could see an evolution in there music like Metallica did with Ride compared to KEA. Nirvana got huge off their second album but it went into the direction that I didn't want them to go. The songs were more mainstream and the heaviness started to devolve into lighter depressing sound that was emo before emo. Kurt had talent though no doubt about it and seemed like a decent guy.
@@perpetualmotion357 Too many people in Gen X ran to hard drugs to cope rather than these alternatives. Its a tragedy. What people never say is that the prescription medications that exist today didn't really in the 70s and 80s. So they ran to drinking or heroin.
@@HeavyMetal-jy4vj to be fair though, the US has a literal epidemic with the opiate crisis that’s existed for most of the 21st century at this point, and that sh!t hits younger and older generations than Gen X pretty hard too. I’ve been friends with, or at least known, easily a few dozen people/families who had serious problems with opiate addiction, and I’m a recovering addict myself, and most of those ppl were millennials, as am I. But being in my mid 30s, I have friends 10 years my elder, and my junior, including older zoomers and younger gen x’ers, and it just seems to me to be a problem across the board.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, of course. I’m just saying I think you can say largely the same thing is happening in the generations after Gen X too. I just think it’s less a generationally specific problem, and more a symptom of socioeconomic and cultural change that’s made life become more precarious in a number of ways (whatever the other progresses that have been), something that really hit Gen X first, but has continued with younger people.
I’m not about to go off on some political economic rant, sorry. Bla bla bla, I hope I don’t come off as too much a pedant, your comment just struck me and I got all serious. ✌️
This was Great!!
Would love to see a Part 2 of this!!
Great show both! One of my favourites of yours that I have listened to over the past couple of years
I grew up more with the 80s Chicago and i liked it for what it was. But when i finally heard their earlier albums i fell in love with that early era. Their first three and Carnegie Hall are my favorite albums from them.
Great vídeo! A lot of fun! Always a pleasure to hear you guys!
I just wanted to say that I appreciate the approach you've taken on this topic. Framing it as 'I like band A but I UNDERSTAND why others don't' makes for a much more interesting discussion than "This band rules and anybody who doesn't like them is stupid!'.
Yeah that phrase "x rules" is really tired & somewhat lazy. Tell us more!
A bit of a cop out though
Elitists leave totally rude replies anytime I leave a comment that it's not the best thing ever recorded, no matter how amateur or poorly recorded the Lp might be. They call me names, threats etc
Clearly not a ‘Marmite’ show. The use of butter to accommodate personal taste had some success! :)
@@godetonter4764 Obviously that's not what SoT is all about...
This same topic would be a cool topic for the Hudson Valley Squares.
Indeed
Great subject for a discussion. Enjoyable to listen to such a conversation, where each participant gets to defend a favourite band, but also accept why people may not like that band. Very insightful, thanks guys.
This is a perfect example of what I love about these Pardo/Popoff videos. They are actual discussions and conversations, not just lists with a few brief sentences. Five bands apiece is a good number because so much discussion can occur in the space of an hour or so. Ninety minutes or even two hours would be better yet, as I think the audience for this type of thing has a greater-than-average attention span and can easily appreciate what you both are saying, whether they agree with it or not. This is my favorite show of the entire Sea Of Tranquility channel. Followed closely by The Hudson Valley Squares. You guys aren't afraid to speak honestly and don't fear what the bands in question might think, which is a thing that so many other channels fall victim to. A good, honest conversation. Kudos to you both. One of my favorite channels on UA-cam. Keep it up, guys!
I’m so thankful for this collaboration because I came here through following Martin and had a lot of the same opinions as him. Now almost two years later, hearing him say what he said about instrumental music, which I would’ve agreed with before, now I find myself leaning towards Pete’s end. Thanks for expanding my taste, gentlemen!
Dixie Dregs will always have a special place in the hearts of British rock fans for the theme tune to Tommy Vance's Friday Rock Show in the '80s. Possibly the best-loved tune that very few people could name.
Al Dimeola for the same reason ❤️
What was the name of that Al Dimeola cut. Never been able to find it. And of course theme one by VDGG, some people might not know..
@@joeking5310 I think the Al Di Meola tack was Chasin The Voodoo from the album Casino but don't quote me 😉
I love the Dregs, Steve Morse is an outstanding guitarist.
@@mikebruce3933 yeah, I think you're right.
Pete is spot on about Chicago- almost a completely different band. Terry Kath was the glue and after he passed away, the band and music changed. Still like "Hot Streets" however.
X was it for me Chicago-wise
VIII was the last Chicago album I bought in the 70s. Lost interest after that album. VIII rocks in spots but the whole vibe changed. Moved on.
Like many bands, they decided to evolve into fluffy synth bands to survive. Jefferson Starship become Starship, "We built this city", era of bad albums.
@@hanksta34 I absolute love 70's Jefferson Starship but later band versions did have a few good albums too, specifically Windows Of Heaven (the great Jack Casady/Paul Kanter/Grace Slick/T Lavitz) & Winds Of Change (Aynsley Dunbar/Grace Slick). Mostly because of Balin's vocals but even Mickey Thomas occasionally steps up. Their last 70's album Freedom At Point Zero still has Paul Kantner & again Dunbar on drums (just left Journey), Craig Chaquico's a pretty good player. "Jane", "Rock Music" & the title track are pretty good tunes...
Terry Kath-genius! The documentary that his daughter did was fantastic. Definitely worth watching.
Couldn’t have been that much of a genius, he pointed a loaded gun at his head and pulled the trigger! 😢
@@jcollins1305 Legend is that he emptied the gun first, but there was a bullet in chamber. That’s what happens when you mix drugs and alcohol with a hobby of gunplay.
What a great topic! I was a bit confused by the topic title, but it was a very interesting discussion. One of my favorites from you two yet.
Classic episode. Thanks as always for the great shows
Amazing episode. It would be cool to see you and Chris Alo or someone else do an episode of this.
Pete have you considered getting people on who know a lot of untouched genres such as 60s garage and psych, punk and new wave, krautrock and even glam and proto punk.... I think it would establish you as the guy for anything rock n roll related.
Good suggestion imo
So many genres you could cover. Good suggestion.
Post punk and alternative! (in my dreams lol)
Why should he cover genres he doesn't care for? SOT is great for exploration of Metal(which I don't care for much anymore) and Prog(which I do),and these interesting debates.I'm sure there are other music channels that explore those genres fully
@@painless465 I think especially so because there are so many groups which could be considered pre prog or an influence on the metal, especially within the 60s garage and psych genre... Some proto punk groups too could be the forefathers of metal, but are usually too obscure... I think it'd be interesting to join these dots up.
Also other genres such as krautrock fall into progressive rock anyway.
But stuff within the acid folk genre also could be considered prog or at least a sub genre of it.
Plus speaking more about alternative and punk groups, could expand Petes channel and bring new people into Metal and Prog too... it works both ways.
Great topic of conversation. Good points made from you both.
This was amazing! You guys are killing it
A great episode and even though I haven't posted any comments until now, I've watched and enjoyed very many of the videos. I just find the channel utterly charming! Everyone who contributes is great. Keep up the good work all, it's much appreciated and enjoyed!
"Charming" is a really good description of Pete and this channel!
As a massive black metal fan I definitely understand this!! Great video!!
Great discussion today Martin and Pete, I'll have to check out the NY dolls' albums. Keep these great videos coming gentlemen!
This was a great show as always love it thanks
I loved Journey growing up and thought all rock fans did too. I had a conversation recently with a guy a couple of years older than me and he couldn’t stand them. It all came down to one thing - they were “pussy rock”, as he called it. Didn’t matter how good they were, or their Santana roots. He felt the same about REO Speedwagon (“they were such goody-goodies!”). Didn’t feel that way about Supertramp though, interestingly. I think if you were there, as a teenager, these things take root and they don’t leave easily, if ever. It just becomes ingrained. Image was so important then, and so was mass consumption; we were all listening to the same stuff, so the masses and their fickleness held huge sway upon whether you listened to something. There were pluses and minuses with that. Look no further than disco, which all true rockers absolutely hated. Now, as a fifty year old, I listen to KC or Bee Gees and hear musicianship and great songwriting there. Go figure.
There's a recent Journey concert on UA-cam with Arnel, I think it's just gringy and not working like the classic '80s band I prefer.
To me Journey is two distinct bands (kinda like The Doobies with/without Tom Johnston). The original lineup, the Santana splinter group, is fantastic. They manage to carry that into early Journey Mark II but then that turns into almost exclusively singles-oriented stadium pop. I still like some of that too but it can't touch Mark I. Can't do REO Speedwagon due to the vocals, love Supertramp
@@wolf1977 Journey's almost like three bands even, for me the high point being the early '80s albums that rightfully so are regarded classics for many good reasons. Not just big sellers and popular with the masses but actually great material too, therefore a good example of justified success combining radio/TV hits.
@@wolf1977 I find all that very interesting. I was a kid in the late 70s/early 80s, so the Journey/Styx/Supertramp/Kansas/REO/Foreigner/Boston amalgam is all positive, soundtrack of your life type of thing. There’s no real separation b/c, I believe perhaps, that I wasn’t quite old enough to draw any negative connotations. As a musician, my appreciation for that music and what it achieved has actually grown, although there may be a song or two I don’t care to hear ever again due to overplay. I like the Mark I stuff of Journey a lot, but came to it much later. For me the sweet spot is with both Perry and Rollie. That’s when they perfected their thing, imo. But yeah, digging a little deeper pays off!
@@billymac72 I also found Journey Mark I later through my love of fusion, and lots of prog/fusion aficionados kept mentioning that debut Journey album. Once I heard that I had to get the others. I was shocked at the difference in musical styles between those & the later stuff. having already become familiar with the early Schon Santana albums it suddenly all made sense...The early Perry albums aren't bad, kind of a mixed bag that would more or less continue from that point on. I do like a lot of their later pop hits too (guilty pleasure?)...Supertramp to me is a great band, extremely melodic & WAY underrated...Never massively got into Kansas or Foreigner, a little bit of Styx
Liked seeing U2 get a shoutout, I absolutely love Joshua Tree, Achtung Baby and All That You Can't Leave Behind, three totally different sounding albums of just really good music. I was curious what Martin's thoughts were on Achtung Baby as he said he didn't like Zooropa and Pop
I think U2 went from brilliant, rightfully hated to nice comeback to mostly burned out. IMO similar to Madonnas arc.
I like those three, too. I even like Rattle and Hum. 😄
Great show Pete. I was a huge U2 fan for so many years. I saw their first performance when they came to Canada and my buddy and I were blown away. However, like you and Martin I lost interest in them, going back maybe 5-6 years ago. I was a huge prog rock fan and I still am and I love when you and your guests have chats about that era of music. All of you have great opinions and great insight into all types of music. Keep up the great work Pete.
These are such good posts. Extremely considered arguments and reasonableness - always a joy.
This was a fun video, indeed...
Chicago has a very dense discography, even the Terry Kath era, but it does have pretty cool songs.
I also hopped on the Nirvana train in the 90s and I agree that Kurt Cobain's attitude kinda undermines the love for the band.
Definitely dig the hits from U2 and Cream but not the entire catalog.
It's always fun to hear Pete's rant about Poison and Mötley Crüe.
As a SF Bay Area guy, almost born and certainly bred, we are contractually obligated to like Journey.
Because music draws such ferocious passion from fans and the bond between artist and fan is so deep, it literally hurts when another fan of music dismisses someone you like. But we need to learn to discuss our differences of opinion or taste with some degree of tolerance and good nature, myself included! I am working on it and this example of differences between Pete and Martin, and HOW they handle their differing viewpoints should be a sterling example of "agreeing to disagree" for all of us. Great discussion and no punches were thrown!
Such a great show guys loved it. I'm off to get some Grand funk railroad now Pete as I only know that one song 😊
I’ve never really understood the knock on stuff being “simplistic”. Everything has its place. Not everything has to be a 6 minute musical wank, where we show you how technically gifted we are on our instrument.
Another fantastic episode by the way 👍. I’m currently blasting through some episodes I somehow missed when they first came out. Cheers from Sydney 👍
Yes, totally agree. Ramones were maybe technically very basic but as songwriters, they wrote gazillion memorable songs. Not easy at all.
Interestingly, Chicago Transit Authority were an influence on Soft Machine. Robert Wyatt apparently was impressed by one of their gigs while touring with Soft Machine in the States, and had the idea to expand the line-up which would appear on their groundbreaking “Third”.
know where this is going!!! lol, sorry I missed the live premier yesterday
Really liked this topic! More like it please.
@7:17 The concept that Martin mentions here is what's often referred to as "tall poppy syndrome". I'd only really heard the term mentioned in music books and documentaries, but apparently there have been worldwide studies done on how this also affects workplaces and women's rights, etc. In Japan they say "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down".
My all-time favourite band (INXS) makes reference to "tall poppy syndrome" in their biography and interviews; after they became hugely popular worldwide (with KICK) they were looked down upon in their own country (of Australia). And the members would purposefully try to conduct themselves in a way less showy manner while in their home country.
Interesting take on INXS in Australia they were huge here Kick hit number 1 and many songs from that album were played to death. Michael Hutchence couldn’t be anything but himself
Very entertaining. Pete , I used to be with you on Edge’s guitar playing . Then , in 2009 , I took my son to see them live . I was astonished at the power of his playing in a live setting . Actually , I could say that about the other members as well . They were all terrific . Even if you are a fan of only a portion of their catalogue , I strongly urge you to go see them live . I think that you will be very pleasantly surprised . They deliver a first class concert experience. Cheers !
I can imagine that seeing U2 live is a great experience
Yeah saw them on the Zoo TV tour and they put on great show,
I saw them 3 times. I saw their first show when they came to Toronto. They played a small venue...The Irish centre...so it was quite intimate. It was the Boy tour, my buddy and I walked out after the concert, looked at each other and went WOW!!!! this band are going to be huge. I still love them, but have been disappointed with their music these past 5-8 years. They are brilliant in concert.
@@delby66 I totally agree .
Wow, what a great episode! Great picks and convincing arguments by Martin and interesting comments by Pete. I find it always very interesting which bands a critic doesn’t like and why. It allows to see their taste in a different light. And it doesn‘t get mentioned enough here that U2 were once a great band. Thanks, Martin!
U2 were a BRILLIANT band! The Edge's sublime tones and majestic, haunting sense of melody, combined with Bono's awesome vocals and searching, meaningful lyrics....EAR CANDY! Peace.
One of the best shows in a while. This was a great idea, well thought out show
The best example about what Martin mentioned with diction and phrasing regarding the most recent Journey singer is the band Eloy for me. Love the music, so great!...... then the vocals come in. Eloy could have been the greatest instrumental only band imo... can't get past his vocals to really really love them
Pete is one of those metal guys that never really was a punk there's plenty of punk folks that never were metalheads it's all about personal preference I'm grateful I'm probably a little more into punk but I'm fairly close to being into metal equally so I've got twice as much great stuff to listen to
I'm lucky to like both Punk and Metal. I don't like all the sub-genres but there's more than enough good music. Definitely not one of those music snobs who looks down on Punk, while listening to Jazz-fusion, Prog and/or other technical music. It is possible to enjoy it all, if someone is open minded.
@@TheTruth-pl3mk I think Pete's Pretty open-minded he just doesn't like everything I think I'm pretty open-minded but there is definitely stuff that I don't like yeah lot of stuff out there to enjoy
As a guy who likes punk but not metal, I do find it interesting, as the antipathy between the two genres makes little sense. It's not even that fans (typically) just think one is better. They tend to think the other is terrible.
Must metalheads I know that don’t like punk are the ones that grew up in the 80’s, and it usually has to do with the proficiency on the instruments from those bands. But I think bands like Pantera and later on Lamb of God, made a log of metalheads reconsider punk, or at least the DC and NYC hardcore punk bands from the 80’s like Bad Brains, Cromags, Black Flag, Agnostic Front, etc.
There good and bad in all genres and sub genre's of music, it's always best to be open minded and not just trash something because of how other people perceive it. I'm mainly into metal but that doesn't meen I can't listen to some rap or whatever
Just managed to watch all of this lengthy video haha, awesome video!
I’ve got Martins new Judas Priest book, I’ve read the beginning and I’m loving it!
Great episode guys!
Hey Martin, Pete, great episode. Extremely interesting arguments on the pro's and on the con's side. One topic I have to tackle is The Clash: Though I do agree with Pete that the music is way too uneven and especially London Calling is an eclectic ride through way too much music styles ... it all comes down on Clash attending live. I've seen Clash on a festival in Luxemburg with UFO and some more on the running order and strangely the headliner was Roxy Music. But Roxy Music were canceled because of unknown reasons and Clash got the headliner slot. And as you may imagine, most of the crowd was not happy about that and when Clash started the show, parts of the crowd were throwing beer-bottles, cans, cups etc. onto the stage. But Clash resisted and carried on with their show and halfway the show they had the crowd in their hands ... and they delivered a barnstorming extremely good live show. Aggressive, raucious, definitely punk-based. But the fact is: This energy of their life-shows was never replicable fot them in the studio.J
Chicago 1970 live at Tanglewood, Terry Kaths guitar playing is over the top 25 or 6 to 4 , This is a really great show if you ever get a chance check it out,
21:51 that resigned sigh behind Pete's "yeah"... oh man, I felt that!
Long time ago in an SF galaxy far far away I worked across the street at a Tower Records store from Journey's management building and offices. The guys were anything but corporate. They were incredibly competitive, at that point they wanted to be the biggest selling most beloved band in the universe, or at least in California. The guys felt The Eagles were their rivals, but then The Eagles stopped, and thinking back on it today not having that rival band around anymore took a little starch out of the group. The whole organization was hugely retail friendly with the best listening parties ever catered. The band was incredibly talented and personable always. Thanks, Pete. You nailed their best.
Pete’s facial expression during Martin’s argumentation about Nirvana is priceless
Nirvana's success was a freak accident. It could only have happened at a time when Hard Rock music was as slick, neutered, and androgynous as the backseat of Obamas Limousin. People were ready to waste their money on anything that didn't feature men in lipstick singing about groupies, and getting wasted
@@Hecatecrossways It’s America’s fault, in Europe these glamorous traits were very very limited
@@metalstorm7506 Absomuthafukkinglutely
I agree with Pete about U2. I'm a U2 fan, but I do favor their early albums too. Their earlier, simpler, angry energetic era was really good. The live "Under A Blood Red Sky" concert was a perfect example. It was raining and cold, and U2 did their best to put on a great live show anyway. No frills and big stage production, just a great rock concert.
Thats as good a live Rock record as there is. Pre "Unforgettable Fire" U2 is their best stuff IMO
Funny thing about that concert. They were supposed to play in Wichita, Kansas that night and I had tickets but I guess it rained harder the previous night at Red Rocks and they had to tape the show the next night. I never did see them but I totally agree. Those first three or four albums were their best.
Common Man - David Ruffin
Achtung Baby is the last of U2 I’ve listened to, and bought the CD. Love their earlier stuff as well. They put on a great show and I saw them a couple of times when the Joshua Tree was out.
Actually the record consists of material from three concerts, most of the tracks from a concert in Germany. You are probably referring („raining and cold“) to the video of the same name with the full show in Red Rocks.
Great show so far!
Great episode. I'm just like Pete, I like everything that Journey has done from the debut to Eclipse and looking forward to the new one. My favorite Chicago album is 18 because it's like their hair metal album, they had that huge ballad on it(Look Away). I like the second and third Poison albums Open Up And Say Ah and Flesh And Blood. Every Rose Has Its Thorne is one of the best ballads ever. I like U2's 80's catalogue and not so much in the 90's but there were a few good songs mixed in there. I remember when Smells Like Teen Spirit first came out everybody called it metal, the grunge label came when the album was released.
I didn't mind 17 but 18 wasn't great since Scheff didn't blow me away on lead vocals.
I LOVE The Ramones. Their songs are so catchy and I think The Ramones are one of the few bands who have genuinely funny lyrics.
Smart people acting stupid. It's a time-tested formula for rock n roll.
Theyre one of the few NY bands i love
Couldn’t understand that bit about the Ramones. A great simple band!
Just a friendly reminder of some bands that came out of New York: Blondie, Ramones, Talking Heads, Sonic Youth, Suicide, Beastie Boys, Grandmaster Flash, Living Colour, Helmet, Prong, White Zombie, Velvet Underground, Television, Luscious Jackson, Cibo Matto, plus countless no wave and hardcore bands, and the genres of punk, new wave, disco and hip hop formed in New York City So I would argue that NYC doesn't 'underpunch' in its contributions to the music world.
From your list, I like Blondie... err... that's it. I admit, there are a couple I know nothing about (eg Luscious Jackson) but I'm afraid there's very little I've heard by the rest that made me want to dig deeper. Taste is a weirdly personal thing, I guess...
@@iainhead9898 Yes. Yes, it is.
@@iainhead9898 I understand not liking anything from the list much, I’m the polar opposite, but I can understand it. What about the genres/sub genres in the list, though? Or are there not many bands from those styles you like either? I’m not judging if you hate it all, to each their own, but that’s a lot more than just the bands listed.
Yeah, for me it’s easily top 3 best cities for music, maybe top 2. I get why people wouldn’t like a lot of it, but I can’t imagine not listening to the bands/scenes/genres that came out of NYC.
Disco, punk rock, hip hop, no wave - these entire movements were born in NYC. And for fucks sake, pretty much the entire 'alternative' rock culture stems from Velvet Underground. NYC bands may not lead in sales, but they sure do lead in influence/importance.
The brass is an essential part of the Big Big Train sound. RIP David Longdon, gone but Never forgotten.
I enjoy shows and discussions like this - where our two hosts can be knowledgeable and passionate about various types of music and express their love or disdain for things and everyone just takes it on board. No grumpy faces (well ok a little bit poker-faced at times!), or insecurities when someone rags on something you like.
It's interesting to me - it seems that a lot of people in the comments have a sort of common baseline of various sorts of hard rock and metal. And from that starting point in the centre, they may drift into proggier or sophisticated AOR music, or maybe 'tasty' forms of blues rock; or go down the path of more aggressive or quirkier punk and "new wave", hardcore, alt/grunge etc. Obviously that's simplistic and I'm sure a lot of people like a huge variety and cross over the borders here and there, but anyway, I've noticed it a lot.
Dixie Dregs is simply one of my top-3 bands. When we learn music structure, there's no part named "Lyrics"... Music is essencially Harmony, Melody and Rhythm. So someone singing and saying words is an addendum... Of course it's nice, but for me not indispensable.
I"m more interested now that Steve Morse is riding with Deep Purple into the sunset.
@@hanksta34 I think he's got more in the tank. He's still doing other side projects, just recently he contributed to “LEGACY: A Tribute To Leslie West" (the whole thing's on YT), he plays on the track "Why Dontcha". I wouldn't be too surprised if there are also more solo & Dregs albums coming (at least I hope so)...One of my all time favorite players. What he's done with Purple is not his best work, yeah he basically saved the band in the 90's when he joined but he's at his best when he's the band leader/composer/ writer/arranger
I absolutely love instrumental music. Satriani, Liquid Tension Experiment for example
Definitely got Pete's back on this one. Dazed and Confused between 1973-75, 45 minutes or more. Space Truckin 20 minutes or better. Vocals are cool but... whatever. Plus totally on point about Cream studio vs. live and that rings true for alot of 70s bands. As an aside, I am from Cleveland and in 1989 I saw Ginger Baker do a drum clinic at Midway Music at the intersection of Pearl and Brookpark next to Peaches record store and shook hands with him. To this day that seems very surreal. But strange how much my opinion differs from Martin's. I am a huge Rush fan but I'm not going to sit through a Neil Peart drum solo. I can listen to Ginger all day.
Just curious. If you saw Rush live, what did you do during the Peart drum solos?
@@aldobarovero1714 Went home then had people I went with tell me when it was over then headed back.
Not a drum solo guy but one drummer I could listen to all day is Peart.
@@rodsmolter5046 I'm with you, typically drum solos get tedious after a while (I' say Peart is one of the more interesting drummers, at least to me a non-drummer). I really like Keith Moon's approach of basically never soloing (closest he got was on "Won't Get Fooled Again"?) but still sounding like he just did, just so busy & surprising. I know some drummers call him "tribal" & "primitive"...
One thing that can perk them up is use of different percussion, not just drums. Zappa made some great use of that, I think Ruth Underwood is one of THE great/underappreciated percussionists ever. Even when I don't necessarily like the Zappa track if she's cutting loose on percussion I'll listen...Ray Cooper was another one (Harrison/Clapton/Floyd/Elton John/Billy Joel/a million others), always in the background but always adding textures & sounds...
I saw Ginger on that same Ludwig drum clinic tour at a small music store in Sea Girt, NJ on a rainy Monday night. There were about 20 drummers there. He was coming off of the Jack Bruce Band featuring Ginger Baker tour. He was very patient with me when I asked for autographs on several albums I had with me. The Ludwig rep not so much. His wife Karen was with him and I spoke to her about how I had purchased videos and autographed photos of Ginger from his LA manager. She didn't seem real happy about that. Ginger played a new Ludwig kit and preached the necessity of drum rudiments. An amazing hour.
Another great show. I kinda like all those bands for different reasons. Thanks guys.
Cool show with some great choices and great that Martin and Pete are grown up enough to be able to see why some people may not like their choices.
I know that I tend to dismiss stuff that is almost forced upon me either by colleagues or the press, which is why I didnt like punk when it first came out, although I have softened a lot towards that in the years since, although I still dont like Grunge, even though I love 70's hard rock and metal. My principle though is that I need to hear it before I caste it aside, and even though something may be in a genre that I may not be drawn towards I will give it a listen if I can. I tried some of those bands beloved of Nick Franco and Ryan Skow however most arent my cup of tea - did hear something in Amorphis that I listened to though.
And I tried out some Miley Cyrus after Jamie recommended it last year - its ok but I wouldnt buy or stream - I did see her on You Tube doing a cover of Pink Floyd's Comfortably Numb, and saw she does a number of other classic rock covers - some work better than others, but props to her for doing them.
Chicago are a band that until I heard their first three albums I always associated with sappy AOR/MOR andI dont think they heped their cause very much when on Chicago 17 Robert Lamm suddenly became Bobby Lamm, presumably to try to appeal to the kids of the time. That being said though they did produce some ok stuff that I dont totally hate.
I really enjoyed this episode but when Martin said Ginger Baker was a “tasteless” drummer I nearly spat out my coffee! For those of you who have doubts about the genius of Ginger Baker, just watch the documentary “Beware of Mr. Baker.” You will be hard pressed to find a drummer who was as well rounded of a musician as Ginger. You will also have a hard time finding someone with a better sense of time. Ginger’s time was so precise he was practically a metronome. Couple that with Bruce and Clapton (who also have essentially perfect time) and you have one of the greatest live bands of all time.
I like Ginger's playing, just not that much in Cream (and to be honest, I never cared for Cream all that much but I can usually isolate good individual playing in bands I don't like much). When Baker was doing bop jazz or poly-dexterous afro-influenced stuff, he was pretty cool. But other than introducing the long-form drum solo to rock (a mixed blessing depending on who is playing) as well as a tom-heavy approach, I never found his stuff all that interesting in Cream.
Maybe the point needs expanding a bit. Martin IS a drummer after all.
@@geruto17760 I have guitar-playing friends (not professional musicians) who hate Jimmy Page & Hendrix. I play too & I don't "get" some guitar players who others on SoT rave about on a regular basis. But yeah, a drummer who dislikes another drummer s/b able to expand on why...
@@geruto17760 Fair point. I like Martin and I’m not trying to throw shade at him. He’s obviously a really intelligent guy and he thinks a lot about these things, so I am sure he has at least some valid critiques of Ginger’s playing.
Here's the thing people have different tastes, I like cream personally, do I think there quite as good as they get credit for, probably not, I wouldn't say Clapton is as good as people say. Same with Ginger Baker, Jack Bruce has some very tasteful baselines, there all very knowledgeable of music theory but there are tons better bands out there
With Journey it's mostly whether you like Steve Perry's voice or not(same with Rush). Also so many Journey hits have been played to death over the years. They are a great band with a lot of deep cuts.
I never heard anyone say they disliked Steve Perry's voice.
@@KISSFAN1970 Really? I've heard a lot of people say that. I don't agree with them. I think Perry has an amazing voice, Greg Rolie has a good voice too. I like the songs where they both sing, Feeling that Way/Anytime, Just the Same Way.
@@rodsmolter5046 I've never heard anything negative about Perry's voice. In fact he's considered one of the best singers around. I agree with you about him and Greg. They made a cool singing Duo
I think most people see Journey as a gimmick band. They only know the played out hits, and they can’t take the band seriously.
Great topic and great discussion
I saw the Dixie Dregs open for Jefferson Starship! Dr Pepper festival on the West side pier in NYC. Talk about your odd parings. They were really excellent. I remember the crowd slowly warming to them and way into the set eventually. A great distant memory.
When I saw them in the early 80's they were paired with Dave Mason and Toots & The Maytals. Great show!
Pete, I'm surprised you listened to other The Clash albums and couldn't find any punk rock. Their first album is almost nothing but ferocious punk rock (except for their cover of Police and Thieves maybe).
Yes, London Calling is all over the place, they are doing pop, punk, reggae, jazz, rockabilly… But it all works because their songwriting is so great.
I agree with you, at minimum just about always "punk adjacent" & the early stuff is punk (for the most part)
Self titled The Clash is absolute punk. Love it. I even love their later stuff with Mick Jones(like Combat Rock). But I can see why maybe Pete doesn't think pure punk with London Calling and Sandanista. The band had reggae influences and rockabilly influences too and wore those influences on their sleeves on those albums. Still love em though.
@@lordtazzman3140 It's what really set them apart, without those other musical influences I'm not sure we'd still be talking about them today. "Confusing" to some, absolutely necessary to me
Forget about bands that seem to contradict the sensibilities they write about as opposed to their real lives. You must understand that the best part of many artists IS their work, art or whatever, not who they are as people and you can go through all of history to see that played out over and over.
Love everything about them - the most interesting band I've ever heard.
RE: Nirvana comments … it IS ok to be depressed. It’s not fun, but it’s ok and perfectly normal to struggle with depression. It’s also ok to sing about “your inner most feelings.” I mean what did the poodle doo bands ever offer when it came to lyrical ability or experimentation? Not sure why this rubs Pete the wrong way. Also, tons of hairspray bands had members who also suffered from serious drug addiction and mental health issues -
A pleasure to listen to as always gentlemen!
I'm not sure if you've covered or considered these prompts before, but what about "Rock LVPs" (least valuable players--band members who ultimately weighed down their group or caused its self-destruction) or "Biggest Jerks in Rock." Would love to hear your guys' thoughts/insights.
Great episode!
Got to agree with Pete regarding U2. I just don't get it at all. Tried. A lot. But....meh....
Prince seems to be the artist everyone loves that I can't get into. He was a good guitarist, but I just get so bored with his sexual obsessions.
Come to think of it, I find Type O Negative cheesy as fuck. What was that Spinal Tap review? "Treading water in a sea of retarded sexuality". That pretty much sums up Type O for me...
Check out Prince: Live At The Aladdin, Las Vegas. Killer band...all music, none of the BS that you're referring to. ;-)
I fully acknowledge Prince's talent and contributions but as a listener I find that his music just lacks a certain...weight? I can't really explain it, but it's missing something. It's like I'm listening to a super talented artist with no soul.
Pete, spot on. The Dregs were actually formed in 1970, albeit with a slightly different name; their first “proper album”, (Freefall) for want of a better expression, was released 7 years later and the outstanding What If a year later as we know. I’d really like to know if any music was recorded between 1970 and ‘75.
Not in that specific date range but I believe The Great Spectacular was a 1975/76 demo album (reissued in '97), so slightly earlier than Freefall (aka Free Fall). The acoustic track "T.O. Witcher" is on that album which Morse would later rerecord with Kansas. "Kathreen" is also on it, another one of those country pickin' ditties Morse likes to throw in every so often...
First going under the name Dixie Grit (thankfully they changed that) which only lasted about a year - they had a vocalist back then. Then comes the Andy West/Morse duo under Dixie Dregs while they're in college. The next band is Rock Ensemble II (while still at University), never saw any recordings from that period be released. Chuck Leavell helps get them signed to the Allman's Capricorn label, then comes Free Fall/Freefall. I suspect that being in school had something to do with not recording during the early 70's, plus not having a label or a recording contract. I remember reading interviews with Morse where he talks about playing live events at the Univ of Miami with Rock Ensemble II (specifically their "Watermelon Day"), maybe someone's got a live recording of that...
@@wolf1977 I knew about the Grit but thanks for the rest of the information.
My mom loves Journey but more specifically Steve Perry Journey. Their hit Don't Stop Believe was covered on Glee.
Unrelated question but have you ever covered Crabby Appleton in any fashion? Figured since you both are well versed in classic early FM rock music.
Very good band IMO, two albums I think? I've got their self-titled one (the 2002 reissue)
@@wolf1977 Yeah, two albums on Elektra. Rotten to the Core is the follow up and is solid as well.
I think Nirvana is good for what they are even though they are far from being my favorite grunge bands. Couple of enjoyable songs on every album or demo. Kinda like a grunge version of Cheap Trick
You know it’s funny, when Nevermind debuted, I thought of Cheap Trick too. I remember thinking, “ah finally - guitar driven, catchy rock.” I thought the same with Siamese Dream, another great album. It just seemed very unpretentious to me, and I thought music was largely awful then. I never mistook it for virtuosity, or wholly original. It just sounded cool and rocked. As a 20 year old at the time, that was some of the first “new” music I had listened to in a long time. Neil Young’s Ragged Glory was also a fave then. Very refreshing since we hadn’t had that kind of rock since the 70s really.
I totally understand your view of grunge Pete. Mainly because at the time I didn't really like AIC or Soundgarden, who sounded way too 'metal/hard rock' for me. .. so it makes sense that you'd like them the most. I was really into Mudhoney (especially) and Supersuckers who sounded more like their roots were in garage punk. I think the 'problem' is the press and media wanted to lump all these bands together when in reality they didn't have much in common musically. I thought Pearl Jam sounded like soft rock when '10' came out. lol
I would still class AiC as a mainly grunge band, but with alot more diversity, face-lift leans towards the hard Rock side and from after that they add the more Metal influences from dirt onwards but over the whole of there discography, ep's included I would still class them as grunge
This was damn good, Pete. Have an idea for ya for a show, but not sure if you’re interested or if you’ve done it.
Best bands from New York. Maybe most influential bands from New York. Maybe not so much NYC as much as the NY area, to include maybe Springsteen or Bon Jovi. Maybe you have ideas....
Anyways, I thoroughly enjoyed this particular one. Thank ya man
U2 is band where I completely loved the first part of their career 80s/90s, but the drop off in the 00's beside a few songs had me much less of a fan. I think they tried too much to be "cutting edge" and commercial at the same time, and became preoccupied with what their audience would like instead and just ended up missing the magic of those 80s and 90s albums.
Same… but just like all bands, they lost their piss n vinegar attitude and the edge ran out of riffs. Nothing to be ashamed of.
Yeah I like their earlier stuff more as well
I love U2s first three albums. Unforgettable Fire and Joshua Tree are good but I lost interest after Bono joined the illuminati!
There are a couple of bands I could never really get into because I didn't really care for what I was hearing from them on the radio. But when I started listening to more of their music on Spotify and You Tube, I started liking them a lot more. Those two bands are Grand Funk Railroad and Thin Lizzy.
Thin Lizzy is a great example. What an amazing band with so much depth, incredible catalogue and Phil Lynott is such a genius songwriter. But all you listen in the radio is “the boys are back in town”. It’s unfortunate.
@@Carlos-xz3vi You are so right. I have several Thin Lizzy songs on my Spottify list: Cowboy Song, Don't Believe a Word, Little Girl in Bloom, Opium Trail, She Knows, Suicide, The Sun Goes Down, Waiting for an Alibi and Whiskey in the Jar.
Thanks for this video guys. This is so much bigger than the bands brought up so I'm not even going to talk about who I agree with on each band mentioned.
Why can't we all say " You know, I don't agree with you but that's ok. We all have a different opinion and that's ok. "?
Chicago’s If You Leave Me Now was the first time I heard them here in UK and that track has a lot of resonance for me. However, through SOT and especially the show on Terry Kath, I discovered their early albums and big fan of Chicago VII with its jazzier fusion. Of course, I have X but not beyond. The Unforgettable Fire by U2 is their perfect album for me, again it takes me back in time and place. UABRS Live at Red Rocks also works as a nice short live album. Agree on Cream, much prefer Blind Faith as a “supergroup”. On Clapton, I do like 461 Ocean Boulevard (strongly recommend the Deluxe reissue with ‘74 Live Concert from Hammersmith) and EC Was Here live, a much more interesting period and love Yvonne Elliman’s contributions. 14,500 views and counting Pete and Martin, feel sure we could all do with a Round Two!
Don’t like Clapton as a guitarist? Martin, c’mon! I know a lot of folks don’t like his solo stuff and I get that but he was a monster in Cream. His playing was a well-oiled machine during that era. Blues rock guitar doesn’t get much better.
Can't say I don't like his playing but also I think he's not a "guitar god" either, he's somewhere in between. I can't put him at the very top (like Hendrix/Beck/Morse/Gary Moore) with of some of the fusion greats, to me he's a level removed from that tier. Mostly due to versatility in styles, the true "greats" can play many different styles & master them all. Then there's Hendrix who just blazed his own trail & influenced everyone who followed. Clapton's a very good blues/rock player for sure...
Well, Martin is admittedly not a "bluesy" fan
@@DavysFlicks apparently, Martin is a poser!
Most people have not heard Creams live performances in the U.S.A. from 1967.I have some of these shows , including a show from Detroit that is fantastic, brutally heavy rock with Clapton and the band at their finest. I think now that a lot of people do not like Eric for his personal views, not so much his guitar playing. I like the fact that he and Van the Man spoke up and are defenders of free speech in doing so. Unlike Kneel Young.
@@danneeson7056 kneel young, I love that!
I like Kiss but totally get why people don't like them.
This is a terrific topic, and an equally terrific discussion. A few personal perspectives:
I'm a huge Journey fan, beginning to end, but I totally understand why some people don't dig them.
As a young music listener in the '70s, I loved Chicago -- they were one of the first bands I really got into -- right up until the sappy Cetera ballads completely subsumed their catalog. (Or, to put it another way, up until Terry Kath died.)
My problem with U2 is that I can't stand the way their music sounds -- mostly The Edge's guitar tone. Some of their hits are decent enough songs, but the actual sound hits my ears like fingernails on chalkboard, such that it renders the music unlistenable.
I appreciate the Dregs for their talents, but like Martin, I need vocals and lyrics in my music.
Nirvana... just never got the grunge thing. I don't listen to music to be depressed.
Poison is flat-out trash.
i got to see the dolls live twice back in the day. once in a small club outside of atlantic city and once in a nearly empty theater in philly , they were great both times.
Would have loved to have been there! I started listening to the Dolls in college and absolutely love those two albums. Johnny Thunders put out some great stuff as well. Sleaze rock at its finest.
@@billymac72 it was fun for sure. the second gig was at a small theater in philly , i remember camping out for tickets. the night of the show we got there and ran to our seats. after a while it was clear we were pretty much the only people there! show was pretty much empty. as far as JT goes i have to admit there was a lot of "pre gaming" going on when i went to see him and the whole thing was a bit fuzzy to say the least! but i am sure we had a blast!
does anyone remember Journey's original rhythm guitarist George Tickner.?.
Great discussion. I was amused with Martin’s first two picks on a personal note. I saw the famous Shea Stadium Who show. A triple bill ,David Johansen, and the Clash opening. Johansen was terrible, the Clash were incredible. That show made me a fan and I was there for the Who. I am a life long NYer and I cannot stand Billy Joel. My wife and I are pariahs amongst family and friends when Joel is on. Joel and Springsteen are in my Over-rated Hall of Fame.
Really great topic Chicago Pete fully agree.
Love this show every Friday but...when will you guys do more deep cut dives?
If you don’t like NY Dolls, you might enjoy Johnny Thunder’s Heartbreakers.😀❤️
Dude, I have turned people on the the Dolls via The LAMF. Such a great record…so hard not to like. Then it’s just a matter of, “if you like this, then you’ll probably like…”
This has to be one of my favorite SOT episodes: The punk/alternative/80's guy versus the AOR/Soft Rock/70's guy lol. For me punk is everything, it changed everything in music and culture in the 80's, 90's and 2000's, my favorite music eras, while the AOR/Soft rock not related to punk stuff is kind of meh. If I find a Stiff Little Fingers, a Wendy O Williams or a Depeche Mode LP, my heart goes out of my chest and my life changes.. while when if I find a Journey or a Foreigner LP I still get it, but just because is there or because is cheap.Not the same for me.
Well put. I can relate exactly to what you’re saying here
@@shizuokaBLUES If you love the music, fine, but when you see the continued popular success of the very bands you dislike, it sounds a bit, with respect, a mite small-minded to say Punk changed everything. I may be wrong, but do a large section of Kendrick Lamar or Ed Sheeran fans really care about Punk? It influenced certain music for a while and maybe the kind of music you like, but Fleetwood Mac, for example, are still huge and if Pink Floyd announced a world tour tomorrow playing huge venues, it will sell out, Stiff Little Fingers announcing a tour in the same venues won't.
👌
@@candelise Yes, it changed everything. Hip hop happened at the same time as punk, it is his spiritual cousin, has a lot in common, it is street music, might not be a direct influence except for the Beastie Boys? a seminal HH group. What do you have as protest music before punk and hip hop? Just bland hippie music, Dylan maybe and then..Crosby Stills and Nash? Punk was responsible for New Wave and Synth pop, influences on Tusk and other 80's FMac albums as well as Momentary Lapse of Reason. Now read this about Kendrick Lamar, about his "punk moment" www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/music/with-to-pimp-a-butterfly-kendrick-lamar-is-having-his-punk-moment/article23556863/
@@MsKalachakra There was once a guy named Woody Guthrie, you might have heard of, who was doing protest music when Dylan was in short pants, not to mention those working on the plantations way back. As I said earlier, the influence goes into the things you like. Heard any 'punk' influence being a major shaker in the latest Tori Amos album? Coldplay can really give the Stiffs a run for their money, can't they?
Much of the Tusk album stance was soon jettisoned when the sales were low and not much of it is in their live set, unless you, yourself, happen to have heard those tracks when attending their shows in the past fifteen years. Momentary Lapse Of Reason may be a bit of a stretch and is certainly not one of their most popular albums to justify any major influence either. Unlike yourself, one was not knocking the music you like, but questioning the size of its influence, Kendrick Lamar or not.
How about the topic "Albums with the best and worst track order"? You could talk about albums that are enhanced because of the way the songs mesh together and albums that suffer from badly arranged songs. You could even make some suggestions on how to improve those albums.
I always listen to your vids when I get home after a tough day at work or whenever I need an escape from the doom and gloom going on in the world. Just a bunch of laid back, regular guys having fun conversations about music and movies, the way it's meant to be. Thank you!
This is a great conversation piece. Who doesn't love albums their partners / friends hate, and vice-versa? Obviously, you are going to break loving couples apart and make lifelong friends lifelong enemies - so congrats on that!
Personally, I have problems with Chicago and Journey of the list here but know they are both extremely popular.
Keep going!
I wonder if Pete would like Give Em Enough Rope by The Clash?
I was thinking that. Its closest to what he says he is looking for from them. And it was produced by BOC’s Sandy Pearlman and Allen Lanier plays on it.
I can relate to living in New York and not liking New York bands. I live in Seattle and whenever I tell people I despise Nirvana they look at me like I have 2 heads
Nirvana was all hype as far as I can tell - mediocre songwriting, raspy vocals, average guitar playing. It was all about the tortured soul as an artist - that's what the critics loved.
@@garyh.238 Supposedly Grunge was = Punk meets Metal, two other styles I'm also not that into so it's natural that I wouldn't be into Grunge either. I also on the whole don't go for darker/brooding music. Much of the vocals as you say are also not that great...I honestly almost never pay attention to music critics (same for films), it's one person's opinion about something about which I can make up my own mind
A lot has to do with the time period in which music first became important to you .Seeing and hearing a group on T.V. or hearing an older siblings music when you were young. When you first asked your parents not to change the station channel on the car radio because you liked what you were hearing and they did not . That was the spring of 1965 for me when I heard Shakin All Over by The Guess Who? That same year was full of songs I liked and I still like because the quality of the music still stands up today ,songs like Get Off My Cloud, For Your Love and many others too numerous to mention. So our tastes have a lot to do with memories of a better time and place as it does with the actual music. As a result of my listening to A.M. radio of the 1960s, I collect records from the time period 1965-1975 , which is deep and wide and chock full of some of the best music ever recorded. My personal taste is for the heavier garage/psych records of that time and the later heavy psych/prog platters up till the mid 70s. Even with such a somewhat narrow genre to collect it would take at least a lifetime or two and lots of coin I dont have to find what I like to hear. Yes Kiss sucks, but that's just my opinion. Yes The Dolls sucked, Chicago blew after the first album, Journey turned to shit after the first three albums Early Grand Funk Railroad is hard rock'n ass kick'n rock n roll. If you have not heard bootleg recordings of Cream during their 1967 and 1968 tours of America, particularly Detroit 1967 then you are missing a big piece of the puzzle, Eric and the boys were at the top of their game. I love heavy acidrock whereas a lot of people think its just loud distorted druggy hippie shit . So be it . Did I mention The Ramones sucked, although they had some catchy bubblegum tunes.
Great topic.
And in regard to your comments on so few great bands outta NY, I find the same to be true of jazz musicians from NY.
I can’t think of 5 great jazz artists from NY.