85 Celica 22RE - Intermittent Low Power Condition [Actual vs False Lean O2 Testing]
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
- This is a continuation of our engine install on my son Beau's 1985 Toyota Celica GT with a 2.4L 22RE engine. In this video we are able to duplicate the low power condition with testing centralized around the oxygen sensor signal and fuel pressure.
00:00 - oxygen sensor testing with a voltmeter
01:45 - false lean or actual lean test
04:05 - actual lean condition identified
06:20 - TPS idle contact switch stuck at 12v
08:30 - ECT test
09:07 - fuel pump cut-off switch test (VAF)
10:30 - VAF signal test
11:13 - fuel pressure testing begins
14:15 - fuel pump power and ground testing
ScannerDanner Tools:
www.scannerdanner.com/tools.html
www.amazon.com/shop/scannerda...
For more information on this topic, I have written a “field manual” called Engine Performance Diagnostics which is available at www.scannerdanner.com as an eBook or paper book.
Want even more diagnostic training? Whether you are a DIY trying to fix your own car, someone looking to become an auto technician, or a current auto technician that wants to get more into diagnostics, subscribe to ScannerDanner Premium www.scannerdanner.com/join-sc... There is a 14 day free trial.
On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC. - Авто та транспорт
![85 Celica 22RE - Cold Start Injector, ECT, TPS, VAF, IAT Testing [Beau's First Time Driving a Stick]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8M7BSRGc-lY/mqdefault.jpg)
I appreciate the fundamentals on this case study thinking that modern scan tools makes us technician lazy
gosh this makes me really appreciate modern scan tools
Right?
This is were that common knowledge is necessary. Awesome work Paul!
If your kids drive a stick, they probably won’t be on their phone while driving
You think so? When you get too comfortable you can be on phone while driving a stick.
I taught all four of my daughters how to drive a stick and they all four drove the same 1998 Nissan 200SX with a 5 speed all through high school. Each of them hated it at first but loved it in the end when all their friends were jealous and wanted them to teach them how to drive a stick. The are each proud of having that small life skill.
I had an 82 Celica GT liftback similar to that one and it had 220k miles on it. I rarely every did any engine work to it other than spark plugs, cap and rotor, and never had to diagnose a driveability problem with it. It never broke. I did have to have a buddy put bearings in the transmission as it was a little noisy and liked to pop out of 5th gear. That was the only issue I ever remember having with it and I bought it with that problem. Loved these cars.
Awesome video! Appreciate all you do Paul!!
Thanks team Danner, the saturday is always fun with your videos.
Great video, Paul. I appreciate your ability to accurately diagnose and repair OBD 0 cars!
Hi Paul nice video. The reason that the the voltage dropped while the pump pressure was decreased, is because of the reduction of the current through the negative wire were you performed the voltage drop ( no current flow , no voltage drop ), Ohms law voltage drop applied.
Well done. Thanks for sharing.
Learned a lot from you over the years!
Another great video as always Dan thx.
Like riding a bike....
Like roller skating....
You never forget stick shifting❤
Scannerdanner this is a great one.❤
I love your videos paul you are a absolute legend
Great video! Miss my 1985 Celica ST SR5. It was a great vehicle and awesome on fuel. Trade it in for a family van in the mid-90s :(
Good job brother pual and excellent
Love these videos. No scopes, just a good meter, and a wiring diagram. My opinion as a tech who learned troubleshooting with tools that could be acquired on a low budget, this is the best material to master first. Scopes are a lot like scan tools. If you can't accurately test with a meter and simple obd scanner, upgrading to a scope and oe level tool isn't going make a tech any better
Can't wait Paul
Thanks for sharing
Awesome Outstanding job thanks
SD thanks for bringing it back to the basics. Nothing like re learning ol L Jetronic fuel injection. You rock!
I’d completely forgotten about the fuel pump switching from the airflow meter on those old flap systems. My fading memory assumed crank sensor signal did the pump turn on .
thx Guys
My ‘io Toyota p/u had a filter as part of the fuel pump assembly
This is were experience comes in and confidence...i would have questioned myself 3 times before moving on. Is the tps signal really good, air flow? You just measured it and you were able to confidently say this is good and go after fuel pressure in the long run
Just applying my known fundamentals my friend. This was actually a good exercise for techs to see. Even on today's cars, it all still applies. Thank you!
What a surprise👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Today I just completed a diag on a 2021 Lexus ES350 F-Sport (Canadian Spec), & man it was a really difficult one, if my fundamentals were not structured by your book, it would be impossible😅
SD, I would request your input here, the only tool that narrowed it down to the low side fuel pressure is the mechanical type fuel guage, since the low side data pid in Toyota's GTS+ showed 10 to 30 kPa difference between actual & desired, which is minimal & surprisingly it didn't set a dtc for low fuel pressure, but bank 1 & 2 lean codes🤔
Fuel pressure was hovering between 30 to 60 psi (on guage)
Your thoughts, it's a V6 gdi engine
I've ordered the fuel filter & pressure regulator, to start with
Thanks for sharing SD & Caleb, Stay Blessed Danner Family🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I've seen similar. Check this one out ua-cam.com/video/ORH3r9d3fSM/v-deo.htmlsi=5P8j0os_hc0xNA69
@@ScannerDanner Thanks for refreshing my memory SD, I've watched this case study & it's in my liked video's, but I overlooked it🥴
I need to revisit the data PID's & confirm that the low side pressure sensor reading is matching the guage or not😇
Thanks for sharing SD, can't thank you enough😍😍😍
Stay Blessed BRO🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Ton's of prayer's for your Mother🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
this is the case where that old analog meter with a needle is almost better. the input impedence along with sample rate on some digitals would make this test really difficult.
Output voltage is too low on these oxygen sensors to be able to run an analog voltmeter
Your overthinking I get it.. used to modern... I do too. ❤
What overthinking was I doing?
Ok. Never mind.. I thought it would have been vacuum.. I was stuck on your other video.
it wasn't a vacuum leak on the other video either 😉
Does the dropping of voltage differential between the grounds suggest that the things on that ground circuit are drawing less amps? Assuming its only the pump on that ground, the pump would draw less current, causing the voltage differential to drop, as well as the fuel pressure.
Yes! This was caused by a drop in current flow. But to be fair, the system voltage was also dropping too (during the stalling condition), as we saw in an earlier test.
An ac. wave form would be cool with a scope and an inductive clamp.
You mean a fuel pump current ramp test? I have it. On the first video we did in this series. Check the playlist I created for this car
@@ScannerDanner Thanks for the reply. I missed it, I will look for it. Thanks.
Would you provide the good data on the voltage readings for the O2 sensor after the fuel pump repair?
Sure! We can revisit that and I'll make sure the sensor is hot enough too, which I did not do enough of (single wire, non heated O2 needs the exhaust to heat it and extended idling doesn't run hot enough on the exhaust)
part3 please!
For sure. We still need to order a new pump
Paul I have been trying to figure out this for a while now hopefully you can answer it . When I was subscribed as member the slide and classes were great. But the ones on pull up and pull down sensor circuits seemed to be backwards from what everyone else was teaching including a couple books I bought. I know I must be missing something can you help. Your slides on pull up circuits the voltage comes externally from pcm and pull down IT’s sourced internally. All the information I have is the opposite 🤷🏼♂️🙋🏼♂️🙇🏼♂️ lost and confused. My ocd has too know 😵💫
Yes sir. I teach it from what the switch does and refuse to teach it the other way. If a switch is connected to ground, what is the switch doing? It is pulling the signal voltage down (pull-down design in my book) Why would we ever call that a pull-up circuit. I don't care that there is a pull-up resistor inside of the ECM on that circuit. Make sense?
@@ScannerDanner it made sense to me the way you teach it just wanted to be sure I wasn’t missing something. Thanks Paul 👍🏻👊🏻
Seems like a vacuum I haven't watched the whole video yet but I saw another on vacuum lean. Condition.
vacuum leaks do not cause low power conditions, ever
On a toyota return fuel system I find there is no regulator bypass and the return line is dry and empty
I'm sorry, what is your question?
Question when it was about to stall when you added fuel to the intake why did it not smooth out. If it was low fuel pressure?
Sometimes you need repetition to be sure. Did you notice at a later time I was able to recover the almost stall?
I did not. I will have to check it again. Thank for getting back. Certainly true about check and recheck. By the way I got your book and loving it.
@@johnpastor8595 thank you!
"there I fixed it" at 0:10 🤪
😂
Ole, Senor. Are you going to put a scope on the O2 sensor?
Didn't need to. The voltmeter good was enough for now.
Why not an amp meter on the pump?
We did in an earlier video in this series
🤡 some serious burn action at the end.
What surprised me is the fuel trims wouldn’t they go rich with a weak pump that’s what I was taught 🙇🏼♂️
Fuel trims would go positive (rich command) but we can't see fuel trim on this model year car
@@ScannerDanner 👍🏻
@@ScannerDanner I think I figured it out in my head. I was watching the front 02 sensor and it showed lean so I was thinking fuel trims by 02 sensor. Lots to learn
@@sheerwillsurvival2064 but you're learning, that is a good thing. You at least understand the concept. It just needs refined a bit in your head. Keep it up!
@@ScannerDanner really appreciate your hard work doing videos 👊🏻
Danner old engine right why think sensors are bad.. it starts.. right?
When chasing any driveability issue, you must confirm the critical inputs are working as designed.
Failing fuel pump
Yep, keep watching, I cover that
Why are you spraying the brakekleen into the air filter housing that is not connected to the throttle body?
It is connected. That is the air inlet to the VAF
@ScannerDanner maybe I saw it incorrect. Again I apologize
@@johnniven9636 all good
A wise Chinese master said once, opinions are like assholes everybody has one and he lived a long time happy .
there's your problem lady- that fart can muffler.
indeed!
Yer smart but your attacking the problem from the wrong of the spectrum.
How do you figure? I was originally looking for a rich condition as I saw black smoke on our test drive
Make some videos of your own
@ScannerDanner from the way the motor was running as it was misfiring. As I recall that's an interference fit motor,so it wouldn't be likely a timing belt. So it would almost be guaranteed to be a fuel issue . And yes sir ,it certainly did appear the t.p.s. could be the cause and I apologize for that as I know it could be a t.p.s. issue and not thro a code. I was trained to first and foremost ,to preform a starting charging system test,then take a look at as many power and ground connections I could see. Assuming all that was good I would then scan it. I did not me offense Sir.
@lyndelld1 don't be a hater dude you obviously have no experience on automobiles . And for your information lyndelld1,I have been fixing cars for going on 41 years. No I'm not looking for a cookie. You can have it and I'll apologize to you over your feelings
@@johnniven9636 my issue with your original comment is really about there not being one specific place someone should start. What you deem as an important starting point may differ from mine. Also this is like the 5th video in this series, so you can't really judge where we actually started within the context of this video alone.
Also, this is part 2 of this particular running problem. So where we started from was in part 1
Nice! you found that problem fast. I like that negative terminal on the battery too 😃
😅 yeah, we bought the wrong battery lol
FUEL FILTER ??????????? 🤷♂️
I believe a clogged filter would cause it to push fuel trims rich like weak pump would. But apparently I learned everything wrong 🤷🏼♂️
@@sheerwillsurvival2064that would drive trims positive, but we don't have the luxury of watching fuel trims on this model year car 😊
I seem to recall he said the fuel filter was already replaced. Gotta listen up.
@@ScannerDanner I was watching the 02 numbers they showed low. . I am still learning
@@sheerwillsurvival2064 your good! And they did show low! Low = a lean signal and the ECM would respond to that by adding fuel (positive trim numbers) but again, we can't see fuel trim on this model year