I just spoke with my local BMW experts who I trust about this. They see many E46s, and their take was they've have seen it most commonly in M52 (323, 328) cars, and tracked M3s. Their feedback has also been they've seen more in the coupes for whatever reason. As always, your mileage may vary. Thanks for posting the videos as always!
Hey 50'sKid, just dropping in the comments to thank you for all that you have done, showing us the ups and down's of our BMW's. For teaching us to wrench at home and stay away from shops as much as possible. It's nice to see you're in a much healthier mindset considering you were going through some hardship's, and I'm so happy you decided to keep uploading content for us. The service YOU provide along with @shoplifetv has helped me save thousands on my project 01 330ci coupe. Some situations like this I agree its best to have a professional do the job, but other than that I feel as if I can do it on my own thanks to the quality videos YOU and @shoplifetv produce. I hope to see more videos from you buddy.
Jason, just a added note here. BMW DID move the location of the "SPOT WELDS" on most facelift models, which appears to be the issue on earlier production. They also added a plastic support internally between the (2) body sheet metals to distribute the stress. I also think convertibles were engineered with a stronger body in that area, due to no roof. There is a BMW Fix in a Technical Service Bulletin where they inject a (2) part epoxy between the body panels to add support for the flex. Redish Motorsport on youtube has a couple good videos on this explaining the cause, BMW's spot weld fix & the epoxy fix., as well as the welded reinforcement. Good stuff. I agree, was mostly on straight drives (due to people popping the clutch too much) & early models. Once the problem surfaced at Dealers, BMW modified that area & issued the TSB for the epoxy.
I asked my mechanic about this issue, they are an independent shop that specialize in German cars, and any given day I see at least 3 other E46 BMWs, and they said that the only reason for the subframe to crack is if the owner is really thrashing it, i.e m3 owners. He said that if it hasn't been pushed hard, then it shouldn't be an issue. They said they almost never see subframe cracking in an E46, I have looked at several E46s to buy as well, and not a single one had subframe cracking.
Hi, 50's kid~ I'm a Korean subscriber in 50's also. Not fluent English speaking but Enjoying ur shows somehow. Hoping to get a e46 or e90 someday so ur shows helps me a lot. Thanks and see u soon!
Mine is a 2000 323i. Had the slight cracks discovered at 145k miles, when I had the diff bushings replaced. The shop welded everything back together and the car has been great since then. Apparently BMW and some Porsche models had this issue. You'd think if they build cars with that amount of flex they would engineer something better. Btw, the indy BMW shop quoted me $4000 to fix, but only if they send it to the BMW speakership to fix it. The local suspension shop fixed for less than $800 with all new bushings.
Hey 50s kid! Couple of things I’ve gathered about this issue do far. Firstly, BMW did not change anything body related on any chassis throughout the e46 models (like rewelds or rebuilds or stuff like that). The facelift models “just“ got some sort of foam sprayed into the cavities that make up the volume where the subframe is bolted onto to unibody. Essentially the space between behind-and-under the back seats and the above surface the subframe is connected to the body. The main problem here is that the parts on the chassis receiving the subframe mounting bolts are made up very thin metal sheets. Forces generated from the drive torque yank on these mounts. Because the bending moment on the diff has a specific positive direction, for example clockwise if you look straight at where the diff is connected to the prop shaft one side (left) will be pushed up against the chassis and the other side (right) pulled down. That’s part of the reason why a “diagonal wear pattern“ occurs. Remember, the thin metal where the bolts are screwed into the body can’t handle all the forces or pass them through air (the cavities BMW filled with foam) resulting in these areas cracking over time. This is explained very well by Vince (the guy behind the “VinceBar/VinceSkinz“, a collection of beams, gusset cups and bent sheets that transfer the forces away from the original mounds via the gusset cups, across a steel beam (the VinceBar) over to the area near the wheel well where thick metal is present). He also explained and documented this problem and presents his solution here on UA-cam as well as his Facebook page. Credits to him! In essence, any e46 frame CAN (and probably WILl) crack. It mostly depends on how much torque is delivered into the diff in what manner. Manual transmissions tend to be more jerky during gear changes especially when being driven hard so it should make sense that these subframe/body connections take more abuse, especially in high powered models. A word on welding vs. epoxy: Welding may be a good idea but we have to take into account that we may get heat related fatigue in the areas in NEAR proximity of welds, over time. The epoxy method is a method supplemented by rivets - I think this is important Info. In my opinion, riveting/epoxy is the better choice since no welding experience is required and we minimize heat related issues should the weld be too hot. I have a 2004 model with no noises whatsoever but I still will go ahead and install the VinceBar and refresh all the subframe bushings. I’m planing on keeping this car until either me or it finds himself/itself 6 feet under, lol! Nevertheless, thanks for your video, good job as always! Viele Grüße aus Deutschland!
Dear friend your are a little bit confused, there was three updates on the E46 subframe over time, I have seen with my eyes two sectioned subframes and saw the differences between the early models of the E46 and a 2001-on model which was updated, it got even updated again in 2003 if I remember well, I can find photos if you want to see them. Welding is a must but it must be done in a proper way, epoxy method doesn't fill the full "sandwich" of plates, just between some of them and it doesn't cover both sides, only left side I think, oh! and remember, most epoxies are flammable so I wouldn't feel safe on a car which is even more prone to get fire. The only correct method is welding reinforcement plates AND passing stems upside to connect all plates from undercarriage to the trunk compartment, if you have an M3 used to track days your will need a reinforcement cross bar in the trunk
@@davidjoseramirezbravo4525 I agree! The subframe definitely has been changed by BMW in march 2000. A video explaining the differences can be found here on UA-cam as well!
I have had 3 LCI manuals and a later M3 manual, plus a few LCI automatics. Never have I had subframe cracking on any. I did use your video to fix my clunking diff bushing though. :) I think the HP of the M3 and if they are driven hard and neglected is the biggest factor overall.
agree, in the end of the day, all depends on how hard these cars are driven.. that's also why M3 are prone to fail, than others, people who buys M3's don't buy them just to go the church if you know what i mean..
The epoxy foam is a very hard resin and will add a lot of rigidity to the box section axle carrier if applied before any cracks appear and it is BMWs solution as welding on local patch panels will not stop the panel twisting under torque resulting in metal fatigue fractures at the axle carrier panels outer ends near the wheel arches. Have used this resin in conjuction with a rear strut brace that bolts in to the rear subframe mounts (Puretech Sweden) which has kept things together fingers crossed!
I have a one-owner 1999 323i bought with 46k and now has 96k. Gently driven, never taken over 65mph. Driven daily on new paved roads, and I have a feeling they are stronger than we think.. Usual happens to guys who romp on them all the time or drive on very bad roads..(From what my M3 buddy told me) I saw one same as mine with 232k on it and it was pretty beat up through numerous owners but no cracks when taken to a German body shop🙂 I have a feeling that driving it with love/care is a huge PLUS.
My first car was a 2002 325ci coupe, got it for 1750 runnin and driving around 210k miles, currently at around 230k on the stock clutch, retired it for the time being for an e92 335i once I noticed the floor pan crease was just starting to crack, and this car was clapped out of Baltimore when we got it. They could be stronger for sure but you’ve got to be pretty rough to them to break them. I don’t think they’re strong enough for the m3 tho
Thanks always for the good info. 233K on my 2004 E46 touring....Recently replaced center support bearing...at 1st I thought the problem was subframe..so glad it was not.
Not sure i agree with staying away from the Pre LCI models . It matters how the car is treated but yet again another great video. Keep em coming.. now to take a look at my subframe 🤣
Sorry, but at 20 years old and more, it really doesn't. Unfortunately the E46 proved to be the most fragile as far as bodywork goes, even more so than E36. I'd even go as far as saying stay away from E46 altogether and get E39. Better car all-round if you must buy a cheap, clapped out old BMW lol.
When I bought my E39 pre facelift in 2010, everyone was like "don't buy it, they have so much electricity failures etc and engines are more durable on newer models" well. 11 years later, engine ok and no really electricity problems either. For my opinion, many times older might be more simple and more durable too. No dual vanos issues, no disa issues, no thermostat issues.... unlike facelifts has :D
@@thetoughcookie3665 my 2000 528it was great mechanically wise, but would literally act up as if it were possessed. It was normal to find random lights on the next day, have the speedo shit out mid-drive, as would the tachometer or sometimes both lol. Replaced the abs unit/pump with another one then that went out and never messed with it again. Thing felt awesome cruising at 95 on the freeway and would still net met 25+ mpg through a slushbox. Thing had a ton of eletrical gremlins
In a sense, they DID... But, the Road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions. BMW engineered the chassis to be 70% more stiff than the E36; this means that instead of ripping the bolts out over time, we see the subframe fracture/crack spontaneously when extreme loads are applied. The Epoxy fix is the best option. Germany has been using high strength Structural Adhesives for decades... Tore apart a VW Golf, and most of the body was "glued" together. Better than welding. Sticks to anything - steels, aluminum, plastics, glass, etc. No heat affected zones. No equipment needed. Can be done anywhere, any time.
I had this on my 2001 330ci manual. Really bad. The structure has multiple layers of metal. We stitched the bottom, added strengtening plates and opened it up from the trunk also, to reattach the parts loose inside the bodyframe mounting points. Big job, but has worked well in our track car. It is right front and left rear that first give away. Ready cut repair plates cost around 150€ and we spent a day fixing it. Recommend full subframe refurbish while you are at it.
The reinforcement plates are basically just a bandaid for the cracking issue, it doesn't solve the root cause. If you're planning on pushing anything over stock power figures (or have an M3), or plan to drift your E46, I'd recommend a vince bar or similar reinforcement done. I did the reinforcement plates on my '01 325Ci as a preventative measure a few years back, and I started to have hairline cracks starting to form on the most typical rear left mounting point. Since I didn't have access to a welder, I just simply slapped the reinforcement plates on with 2-component high-strength panel adhesive and have been good ever since even though the car is driven pretty enthusiastically to be said :D
The epoxy fix might be ok, surface preparation would be the key. I can see welds causing issues also. Remember, a lot of airliner parts are held together with glue.
Just going to say the same thing, in simple terms, aircraft are glued together today. If the surface prep is done properly load distribution will be better as load is spread out as to welding which localizes stresses at the weld.
I made a mistake its the NHTSA. As for older e46 if you really love the car and plan and keeping it especially standard Transmission, because they are becoming collectable now purchase the kit and take it to a body shop they will do for about $700-$1000.00. Hello 50sKid I love you (mon) Jamaican you have teach me a lot and hook me with Ismail thanks. But please don't discourage any of your fans not to purchase old BMW just tell us the problem along with you one of our leaders in the BMW community we will get it right.
I have a 05 330xi 6 speed, I'm going on 4 years of ownership, It has 120k miles, I honestly never had an issue no clunks, no check engine lights, nothing. I tend to drive it pretty chill around town, and open the throttle up on freeway. I think like a lot of people stated, the harder you drive your e46 the more than likely its gonna break.
I had to do it on my manual 98 328i e46 (euro got them sooner than usa). It was like being in a rain of fire welding it together on my back with a flux core welder... It finally let go after a clutch dump to got some sideways fun. I have beat the shit out of it for like 8 month since the repair and renforcement and it's still holding strong. I replaced all the bushing at the same time and it has less play in the transmission now. I would highly suggest to do it on a lift if you can. And be prepared with an air hose to blow out fire, everything like to burn down there.
@jose da silva thats because you didnt remove the protective undercoating lol, every e46 will have this issue due to the RCP being attached to thin sheet metal unlike every other bmw and car in existence, where they are attaching that panel to the frame legs of the car. Because of that these plates dont fix anything and you have to tie the RCP into the frame rails with something like the CMP bar/brace or the vince bar
my 2003 330i manual had a 12 inch long crack on the rear right subframe mounting surface. I noticed it when I was installing reinforcement plates as a precaution.
I have had 5 different E46 (all facelifts), luckily no subframe cracks. At least anything you can see axle in place. No odd sounds or anything. I think how the car was driven early years have huge effect how subframe mounts survive. My cars are 2003-2005 E46 and latest one is with slushbox 2005 model.
Your videos have been very informative. I'm about to look at getting a 2002 M3 with manual trans. Going to have a thorough PPI done by the dealer with the cars history. I have a good idea now what to look for and what to ask about.
You guys that writing you never had this issue, it's because is not only by noise you discover cracks, but sometimes you have to take, the whole rear end apart just to see the tiny hair cracks!
I have a manual 99 328 I've had from new. It had the issue BAD - mech who inspected said that one side had almost separated. BMW fixed it as part a class action lawsuit settlement. Was time limited so this has expired now. I have been inspecting each service and not seen any re-occurrence. Cars not exactly been treated gently, so IMHO the fix applied was a good one. Its been with my 24 Y/O son for the last 6 years with him driving like......! To be honest at this stage and seeing how quickly it appeared in mine I would expect MOST the early cars who are susceptible to this as were NOT fixed are now out of the gene pool - What you have left are the ones that were fixed. Would be more worried about a later car that was not covered. I believe they reinforced the subframe mounts after the 2000 MY.
Mine looked okay when I did the subframe mounts (ECS poly), and it is an AWD, so I am hopeful that not reinforcing was not a bad decision. (edit 2001, but maybe the facelift happened part way through that year... I don't recall, my bar had an mtech bumper when I bought it).
loved this video just for giving me peace of mind since mine's a late model auto. great review of the issue. i'd still buy the early model cars, though, if the price was right (just not to daily haha). i've watched a bunch of videos on welding in the panels and it really doesn't look hard, although that's easy for me to say since I have a welder. But folks could just rent or borrow a mig and a die grinder and just get it done; my mig is just a metal glue gun basically.
Depends how the car is driven is a big fact in these , ive seen cars with 350k miles manual with no signs of cracking or spot welds pulling , yet on my own chassis with 44k it ripped reall bad where i had cut out spare wheel well and weld extra thick metal all the way from the bottom because once you remove 2-3 layers you can actually see very bottom sheet metal that ur subframe bolts up to , since i already had bottom reinforcement done it didnt prevent it from cracking further EVEN THO I FIXED ORIGINAL CRACK IT RIPPED AGAIN but yet again 700 whp , after welding 1/4 thick metal to that sheet metal melting through it and getting to the reinforcement plates i had welded previously . So to cap this up basically once you do the bottom reinforcements , start cutting layers out untill you get to see the other side of the sheet metal where subframe bolts up , there is a lotta empty space so you can see pretty much everything thats going on , ive spotted cracks that i woulda never found without doing so . anyways after i welded lotta metal to reinforce it , its holding up fine now if youre not making power just make sure you check cracks from the trunk inside the chassis cavity
You look like you lost weight , you look really great bud ! Just did a ground up restoration on my 2003 M3 200K miles on it and no subframe cracking.cleaned down to bare metal and just epoxied the reinforcement on. And the epoxy method is only you don't have the cracking.
Here is the link for for the Epoxy www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000PEW4MI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 you need to buy a gun also one is enough to do the Subframe kit "ONLY IF YOU HAVE NO CRACKING" you have to grind down to the BARE metal because the undercoating is thick and can have metal cracking not visible !
Did the same to my 2003 Compact track day car. No cracks, it epoxied plates in just in case. Also installed the so-called VinceCups. Look up Vince and his company Practical Performance in Sweden. He makes what in my mind is the only actual fix of the root cause of the problems and not just patches to cover them. His VinceBar doesn’t fit my Compact but I would have done that if it did. Regarding epoxies I am certain that modern epoxies are more than capable for this application. But yes only epoxy if you don’t have cracks yet.
After my e46 zf tramny rebuild reinstallation. I now hear very loud metal tapping/scrapping from bell housing area. As i turn the flywheel manually, it moves freely then gets to a point where it makes a single sudden metal tap. Then moves freely again. The noise starts after a couple seconds from the car starting. Sound becomes faster as i revv it up. The car does turn off by itself too .
@@gokartsRfun i do recall the first attempt at putting back the transmission. It wasnt seated properly somewhere as i tightened it up with a huge gap on top. Maybe i bent something in the process (plate wise) Second attempt went in smoothly. 3rd time is the charm hopefully
@@gokartsRfun oh man i want to cry i paid 220$ for this frontpump. I guess TC wasnt seated properly even though i tried it many times and made sure it was. So the teeth on the TC was eating away the 2 teeth on the front pump. Luckily i have the gears from the old pump which has the 2 teeth on it. I will have to take the tranny apart again and the pump itself and replace those 2 gears.
@@gokartsRfun so i guess autozone gave me a bad remanufactured TC. Which ruined the pump teeth. My new gear set doesn't even fit it. They gave me bm44 as an exact fit for my car 2003 325ci. (It did feel like it sat in correctly plus i was able to bolt it aswell considering i ligned up the holes) would autozone refund me a new TC/ front pump due to them selling me the wrong one/TC reman faulty specs/sizing.
I don't think it's torque that causes the floor to crack.. In Europe we get the 330d. Pre-2003 (M57) those had 288lb/ft, post 2003 (M57N) they had 302 lb/ft. The M3 has 250 lb/ft. The later 330d's don't (generally) have that issue. I have the later M57N 330d myself and have owned it for 13yrs. It's been remapped and has close to 400lb/ft. Again, no subframe issues. The rest of the body is rusty as hell but the subframe is solid! The problem is essentially because the mounting points aren't solid. Driftworks here in the UK are currently doing a E46 M3 with a V10 conversion from the E60 M5. They went through the subframe and showed exactly what it is and why it fails. They installed strengthening panels afterwards but essentially the main resolution was to weld the mount points solid to the chassis. Great video! Also if anyone is from the UK and wants to learn more about it or needs to get the repair done - go to Redish motorsport. They have loads of info and sell the panels you need to strengthen (i'm not associated with them in any way, just a fan!).
@@momoghal3711 actually they do, the force that causes the damage is twisting transmitted from the rear drivetrain, the more torque the more twist, the problem is the amount of harsh drive you put on it (hard acceleration and hard retention) take in mind that most of diesels are 320d and usually they are just commuter cars, the 330d is more rare and as a diesel it does deliver all it's torque only in the low-mid RPM, in a petrol variant you have a constant torque available in all RPM, 330d breaks transmission bendings quite easily for example but as I said you have to put lot of harsh drive using the peak torque RPM zone. Pre-2001 has more chances to break, 2001-2003 a little less, and post 2003 a little less even, but none of the updates actually solved the problem, every e46 can break subframe. The chances to break dependeds on the harsh drive so a petrol variant is more prone to that than a diesel by the kind of owner that will drive it. ua-cam.com/video/hvyfSpHpx6A/v-deo.html In this video you can see what happens when he drive a cracked subframe, take a look and put attention when he accelerates
@David José Ramírez Bravo being a 330d owner for the last 13yrs and a member of many owners clubs I can safely say diesels don't suffer as much as petrols.. No petrol, M3 included can transmit as much torque as a 330d. Incase you forgot, the M3 has 250lb/ft but being a petrol it has a linear delivery. The early 330d had 288lb/ft and being a diesel its from much lower down too. The only difference with the M3s (similar to what you said) is because they're sports cars they get launched more often. Putting that power and torque through the rear subframe won't help when the mounts are made of cheese. That's very different to just torque being the killer. In fact the most common variant to have the issue was the early 318i and 323i. My lawnmower has more torque than those! Also you say because diesels aren't driven like petrols they don't crack? We have many tuned 330d's here in thd UK with some up to 500bhp so torque will into the 600s lb/ft. Launched, drifted, whatever - no cracks! Mine has been at 380lb/ft for 12yrs. Launched countless times, driven hard! Still, no cracks.. Your theory doesn't hold up based on experience.
@@momoghal3711 Bro, do you know that the subframe is the same for all variants? It is identical besides the engine! I have a 01 330i and it does not have cracks, I made the preventive reinforcement but it has no cracks when the rear drivetrain was dismounted, reason? Because it's a well maintained car not used for track days nor rally driving. Anyway, my personal advise is simple, if anyone is willing to buy a e46, inspect the four possible crack points before buy, if you are just a commuter driver don't do the reinforcement, if you want to do sport drive do the reinforcement.
I have a 5 speed manual April 2000 E46 323i I checked for the subframe mount and they apeard to be fine, don't know if the previous owner in Germany did it or not but fingers crossed I hope he did
I have a 2003 325i manual with 106k miles and I have a subframe hairline crack at the left rear. But I think it’s more of a surface rust spot. Edit: it’s definitely a crack.
@@desmondmitchell5602 yeah I think it’s from the bushings. It got considerably quieter once I changed my gearbox and engine mounts as the drivetrain is a bit more stiff now. Now I only hear it from the diff but quieter but still some movement because the bushings there are old still.
@@beltdrivetypea6534 Nope. I’ve had around 70 vehicles over my years and it’s the one car I’ve had that’s required almost zero repairs in 15 years of ownership. The only place I’ve ever heard this mentioned is UA-cam & some forums. It’s clearly a weak point if cars are modified & driven over-hard but I also wonder if it’s a manufacturing location issue. All the E46s we see in my country New Zealand are either from Germany (the ones sold new here) or Asia (used imports).
i have a pre lci e46 330ci, mine seems to be okay... but from the research i did online, it seems a big problem with 323i and 328i's. apparently it was corrected on the 325i and 330i which were later models
@@NakaiSan. yeah it was reinforced which is why this is most common on 323 and 328's. the M3 was a whole different beast altogether with all sorts of other issues
I’ve seen them crack so bad that they literally drop the subframe onto the ground. Coming from drifting most people avoid e46’s all together to avoid addressing the issue. Basically any performance driving will tear the subframe out of these cars.
My 1999 E46 328i with an auto trans has a clunking when shifting down to lower gears on first drive of the day. After driving a bit it quits doing it. My mechanic checked and the rear diff bushing is split and he thinks that is the issue. What years got the facelift? I thought the facelift cars had square foglights up front like my '99 has and now I'm confused if mine is facelifted or not.
i don't know if any other commenters have already mentioned this, but you shouldn't just automatically advice people away from purchasing early years e46. many of these cars had their rear subframe torn a decade+ ago, and back then bmw was repairing these cars free of charge. this happened to my 99 manual 328i back in the days, and bmw repaired it by cutting out nearly the entire rear floorpan and welding in a new one that is stronger. after the fix, the rear end felt more solid than ever and i drove the car for another 7 years without problems before i sold it. i guess the point i'm trying to make is that if you are in the market for an early years e46, inquire and ask for proof that the car had it's rear subframe repaired by bmw. if it has, i certainly wouldn't shy away from those cars.
I have a e46 1999 and my subframe crack Its where the differential bolts to the body BMW Had recall on airbag Malfunction and I look up subframe recall and it came up if you have a E46 M3 by court order and a case by case basis BMW will fix for free. At BMW they put in a new airbag sensor and the light was still on 6 months later NHSC notify me that BMW did not fix the issue and I should take it back. What I find with BMW is in parts and sales they are very nice to you but in service they smile in your face and don't fixed your recall problem.
I have 3 e46s 2 of them are 328ci, both of those had cracks in the subframe. The 2001 325i didn’t. I thrash on all my cars so it definitely has to do with engine size, and type of vehicle (coupe, convertible, sedan), and year of production
Had to get rid of my 99 328i due to this issue :/ discovered what looked like someone punched through the driver side subframe mounting points didn’t help that the car was slammed. Lol
Definitely very dependent on how the car has been driven, IMHO. Don't dump the clutch or bang through the gears and it'll be fine. In a regular E46 with 220hp and an open differential, there really should never be much vertical force applied to those trouble areas, especially in smooth, normal driving. However, throw in 330hp, a limited slip, and the type of driver who wants an M3, and its a different story.
I recently replaced the dme,ews along with the key and lock assembly. After doing that I lock the doors manually. I didn’t program the key. I try to unlock the doors but none of the doors will don’t unlock. The windows goes down when I turn the key to the unlock position and back up in the lock position. NEED HELP
Hello my friend. Hope you can help me with thjis problem. I have a 328i e46 with an m52tu engine, and some times, when i sart the car, it takes abou 3 or 4 seconds to get started and DME shows 103 error code (INPA), and i bilieve that DME shut down the vanos. If I turn off the car and then turn on, the problem desapear. I rebuilded the vanos with new seals and the solenoids are ok. The intake camshaft sensor is new. Could you help me? thanks for you great work!!!
Jason, I really need your help with an issue with my e46. It's been there since I've owned the car and I haven't got a clue where to start. Basically what happens is the car loses approx 50% of its power and torque. I pull over, do the throttle body reset adaptations procedure and hey presto all my powers back. Its a 2000 323i. No codes present, it's just really stumping me. Hope you can find 2 mins to reply. Ps did my vanos rebuild the other week perfectly following your videos. I've had an increase of 6+mpg and all my low end power has been restored. Thank you so much for the videos and everything you do for the community.👍
@@50sKid fun story, I have PO340 Camshaft position A circuit malfunction. (Intake side) which had been changed twice. Tested the harness with a multimeter and it gives me the correct voltage readings of 12v 5v and 0 v. There's continuity in the sensor also. The code will clear with inpa but come back shortly after. Pulling my hair out over this one. The code has been here since I owned it, just under a year.
i recently had that reversing thumping problem w my 05 e46 and im hoping its a bushing issue, when i continued driving though there this bouncing in the rear and a sound like somethings knocking/rubbing/scraping, is it related?
Fixing is cheap if you diy it, welding is not that hard. Btw I think if someone has a manual and pre-does it before it breaks up, it will probs be ok only with epoxy fix too. If some has it and some not, it must need only "a tiny bit more" to hold on fine :)
Its hit or miss, ive got a 08/1998 production 323i that i have put 280k miles on it. I even entered into a grasroots gravel race and i have never had any cracking issues. Its a sedan and the sedans have MUCH more torsional regitity in the chassis then coupes.
2004/05 330i manual doing a lot of drifting 😂 mine has gone to shambles I can literally see inside the chassi, if you got a manual do the reinforcement ASAP don’t feel the same as me because when it happens is nasty
That's cool, how expensive and complicated was that to do? Also any ideas if you can check for cracks without going under the car or is it worth getting an inspection done by a mechanic - before buying btw.
I will be watching your dif bush video as I have a set of new RCA's and rose bushes for the upper ones as well .. might as well do all three at one that would only leave the bigger ones which i think i will just pay some else to do lol ...
Honestly.. you shoukd follow 50s Kid. Without his shared knowledge i woukd have been at the mercy of labour charges. Now i tackle anything and everything , gearbox and clutch this weekend solo on axle stands. Its nice to just have the job done but you will really appreciate doing the work yourself plus. You get a real understanding of your cars engineering and condition after looking at the underneath so long swearing at that one bolt that just wont budge .. get the spanners out 😊
@50skid I don't know if you want us to request/suggest videos. I know you have done oil and filter. Could you do all other serviceable fluids, filters and stuff? Like diff, breakfluid, power steering. Bmw n54. Love your videos
I have found a very viable solution to this problem, without welding, by injecting epoxy into the cavities with threaded both into holes imbedded into the epoxy, of coure the epoxy must be of high strength and hardness such as Rapidset
Mostly i use the car as a Small Turissimo. And use the cruise control 98% of the time. I also noticed that with disconnected MAF sensor the cruise control can not be switched on.
Hey Jason, love all the videos....you’ve been a big part of me maintaining my e46. If you don’t mind, I have a quick question. I recently re-replaced my sway bar links, and I’m still getting an annoying clunk on the passenger side, mostly around slow corners. I’ve done the struts, springs, strut mounts, plates, tie rods and last tear did the lower control arms and bushings. Anyway, I read on e46 fanatics that you need to torque the sway bar links under load, but that seems a bit weird to me. And my driver side is quiet as can be, clunk wise. Any thoughts you might have as to what I should look at would be awesome. Thanks again btw for another great video. Hope all is good out there for you 👍
No you don't have to torque the sway bar links under load. That being said, I have no idea what your clunk is. Not something I can diagnose over the internet I'm afraid. You'll have to get under there with a prybar and see what's loose.
@@50sKid , thanks for getting back to to me. I’ll double check and make sure it’s torqued enough. The sound definitely had a slightly better tone when I changed them...
People in the comments are hilarious 😂 the point is that all e46’s have the same rear chassis mounts and bmw used a stupid design & thin sheet metal not reinforcing it & the way the diff is mounted all caused the rear subframe to fail and crack. Now does that mean all e46’s are cracked? No lol so the ones saying “ I’ve had 3 blah blah and never had it” ok buddy your 323i or 325i doesn’t even have that much power to do that unless you drive it or drift it like a maniac.. you could have had 10 e46’s & they can be all perfectly fine or at least seem like it because they had good previous owners, well maintained and were driven normal. Plus these cars got affordable to pretty much anyone 5-8 years ago and that means teenagers that think they are driving something with 300hp
I just spoke with my local BMW experts who I trust about this. They see many E46s, and their take was they've have seen it most commonly in M52 (323, 328) cars, and tracked M3s. Their feedback has also been they've seen more in the coupes for whatever reason. As always, your mileage may vary. Thanks for posting the videos as always!
Hey 50'sKid, just dropping in the comments to thank you for all that you have done, showing us the ups and down's of our BMW's. For teaching us to wrench at home and stay away from shops as much as possible. It's nice to see you're in a much healthier mindset considering you were going through some hardship's, and I'm so happy you decided to keep uploading content for us. The service YOU provide along with @shoplifetv has helped me save thousands on my project 01 330ci coupe. Some situations like this I agree its best to have a professional do the job, but other than that I feel as if I can do it on my own thanks to the quality videos YOU and @shoplifetv produce. I hope to see more videos from you buddy.
Jason, just a added note here. BMW DID move the location of the "SPOT WELDS" on most facelift models, which appears to be the issue on earlier production. They also added a plastic support internally between the (2) body sheet metals to distribute the stress. I also think convertibles were engineered with a stronger body in that area, due to no roof. There is a BMW Fix in a Technical Service Bulletin where they inject a (2) part epoxy between the body panels to add support for the flex. Redish Motorsport on youtube has a couple good videos on this explaining the cause, BMW's spot weld fix & the epoxy fix., as well as the welded reinforcement. Good stuff. I agree, was mostly on straight drives (due to people popping the clutch too much) & early models. Once the problem surfaced at Dealers, BMW modified that area & issued the TSB for the epoxy.
I asked my mechanic about this issue, they are an independent shop that specialize in German cars, and any given day I see at least 3 other E46 BMWs, and they said that the only reason for the subframe to crack is if the owner is really thrashing it, i.e m3 owners. He said that if it hasn't been pushed hard, then it shouldn't be an issue. They said they almost never see subframe cracking in an E46, I have looked at several E46s to buy as well, and not a single one had subframe cracking.
m3 e46 and 330 e46 are the most afected,due to horse power,they sell a kit and must be welded .
Not ture ...even if your not thrashing it these will crack.
@@quackster41 True for models until march 2000...
WRONG
That's like saying if i bend a piece of metal really gently it will never break. It will, only not as fast
Really is the most comprehensive channel for the e46. Thank you.
Hi, 50's kid~
I'm a Korean subscriber in 50's also. Not fluent English speaking but Enjoying ur shows somehow. Hoping to get a e46 or e90 someday so ur shows helps me a lot. Thanks and see u soon!
Mine is a 2000 323i. Had the slight cracks discovered at 145k miles, when I had the diff bushings replaced. The shop welded everything back together and the car has been great since then. Apparently BMW and some Porsche models had this issue. You'd think if they build cars with that amount of flex they would engineer something better. Btw, the indy BMW shop quoted me $4000 to fix, but only if they send it to the BMW speakership to fix it. The local suspension shop fixed for less than $800 with all new bushings.
Nice
Hey 50s kid! Couple of things I’ve gathered about this issue do far. Firstly, BMW did not change anything body related on any chassis throughout the e46 models (like rewelds or rebuilds or stuff like that). The facelift models “just“ got some sort of foam sprayed into the cavities that make up the volume where the subframe is bolted onto to unibody. Essentially the space between behind-and-under the back seats and the above surface the subframe is connected to the body.
The main problem here is that the parts on the chassis receiving the subframe mounting bolts are made up very thin metal sheets. Forces generated from the drive torque yank on these mounts. Because the bending moment on the diff has a specific positive direction, for example clockwise if you look straight at where the diff is connected to the prop shaft one side (left) will be pushed up against the chassis and the other side (right) pulled down. That’s part of the reason why a “diagonal wear pattern“ occurs. Remember, the thin metal where the bolts are screwed into the body can’t handle all the forces or pass them through air (the cavities BMW filled with foam) resulting in these areas cracking over time. This is explained very well by Vince (the guy behind the “VinceBar/VinceSkinz“, a collection of beams, gusset cups and bent sheets that transfer the forces away from the original mounds via the gusset cups, across a steel beam (the VinceBar) over to the area near the wheel well where thick metal is present). He also explained and documented this problem and presents his solution here on UA-cam as well as his Facebook page. Credits to him!
In essence, any e46 frame CAN (and probably WILl) crack. It mostly depends on how much torque is delivered into the diff in what manner. Manual transmissions tend to be more jerky during gear changes especially when being driven hard so it should make sense that these subframe/body connections take more abuse, especially in high powered models.
A word on welding vs. epoxy: Welding may be a good idea but we have to take into account that we may get heat related fatigue in the areas in NEAR proximity of welds, over time. The epoxy method is a method supplemented by rivets - I think this is important Info. In my opinion, riveting/epoxy is the better choice since no welding experience is required and we minimize heat related issues should the weld be too hot.
I have a 2004 model with no noises whatsoever but I still will go ahead and install the VinceBar and refresh all the subframe bushings. I’m planing on keeping this car until either me or it finds himself/itself 6 feet under, lol!
Nevertheless, thanks for your video, good job as always!
Viele Grüße aus Deutschland!
Dear friend your are a little bit confused, there was three updates on the E46 subframe over time, I have seen with my eyes two sectioned subframes and saw the differences between the early models of the E46 and a 2001-on model which was updated, it got even updated again in 2003 if I remember well, I can find photos if you want to see them.
Welding is a must but it must be done in a proper way, epoxy method doesn't fill the full "sandwich" of plates, just between some of them and it doesn't cover both sides, only left side I think, oh! and remember, most epoxies are flammable so I wouldn't feel safe on a car which is even more prone to get fire.
The only correct method is welding reinforcement plates AND passing stems upside to connect all plates from undercarriage to the trunk compartment, if you have an M3 used to track days your will need a reinforcement cross bar in the trunk
@@davidjoseramirezbravo4525 I agree! The subframe definitely has been changed by BMW in march 2000. A video explaining the differences can be found here on UA-cam as well!
@@davidjoseramirezbravo4525 I am wondering, does wheel spacers affect this problem? I am talking about 2003 automatic sedan.
I have had 3 LCI manuals and a later M3 manual, plus a few LCI automatics. Never have I had subframe cracking on any. I did use your video to fix my clunking diff bushing though. :) I think the HP of the M3 and if they are driven hard and neglected is the biggest factor overall.
agree, in the end of the day, all depends on how hard these cars are driven.. that's also why M3 are prone to fail, than others, people who buys M3's don't buy them just to go the church if you know what i mean..
If you track your e46, expect it to crack.
@@scottmcdaniel2361 I certainly believe that. I drive my M3 hard on occasion, but have only tracked it once.
The epoxy foam is a very hard resin and will add a lot of rigidity to the box section axle carrier if applied before any cracks appear and it is BMWs solution as welding on local patch panels will not stop the panel twisting under torque resulting in metal fatigue fractures at the axle carrier panels outer ends near the wheel arches. Have used this resin in conjuction with a rear strut brace that bolts in to the rear subframe mounts (Puretech Sweden) which has kept things together fingers crossed!
I have a one-owner 1999 323i bought with 46k and now has 96k. Gently driven, never taken over 65mph. Driven daily on new paved roads, and I have a feeling they are stronger than we think.. Usual happens to guys who romp on them all the time or drive on very bad roads..(From what my M3 buddy told me) I saw one same as mine with 232k on it and it was pretty beat up through numerous owners but no cracks when taken to a German body shop🙂 I have a feeling that driving it with love/care is a huge PLUS.
My first car was a 2002 325ci coupe, got it for 1750 runnin and driving around 210k miles, currently at around 230k on the stock clutch, retired it for the time being for an e92 335i once I noticed the floor pan crease was just starting to crack, and this car was clapped out of Baltimore when we got it. They could be stronger for sure but you’ve got to be pretty rough to them to break them. I don’t think they’re strong enough for the m3 tho
@@Whiboi Great testimony !!🤘😲
Thanks always for the good info. 233K on my 2004 E46 touring....Recently replaced center support bearing...at 1st I thought the problem was subframe..so glad it was not.
Got an 02 330ci with 95k on it. Subframe still holding strong thanks to the older lady that owned it before me
Not sure i agree with staying away from the Pre LCI models . It matters how the car is treated but yet again another great video. Keep em coming.. now to take a look at my subframe 🤣
Sorry, but at 20 years old and more, it really doesn't. Unfortunately the E46 proved to be the most fragile as far as bodywork goes, even more so than E36. I'd even go as far as saying stay away from E46 altogether and get E39. Better car all-round if you must buy a cheap, clapped out old BMW lol.
When I bought my E39 pre facelift in 2010, everyone was like "don't buy it, they have so much electricity failures etc and engines are more durable on newer models" well. 11 years later, engine ok and no really electricity problems either. For my opinion, many times older might be more simple and more durable too. No dual vanos issues, no disa issues, no thermostat issues.... unlike facelifts has :D
@@boriss187 e39 better than e46?🌝
@@thetoughcookie3665 my 2000 528it was great mechanically wise, but would literally act up as if it were possessed. It was normal to find random lights on the next day, have the speedo shit out mid-drive, as would the tachometer or sometimes both lol. Replaced the abs unit/pump with another one then that went out and never messed with it again. Thing felt awesome cruising at 95 on the freeway and would still net met 25+ mpg through a slushbox. Thing had a ton of eletrical gremlins
Its always a great video when you drop them (Great Teacher)
Thanks for the video Jason. This inheritable problem started with the E36. You would think engineer would have gone around and rectified the problem.
In a sense, they DID... But, the Road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions. BMW engineered the chassis to be 70% more stiff than the E36; this means that instead of ripping the bolts out over time, we see the subframe fracture/crack spontaneously when extreme loads are applied.
The Epoxy fix is the best option. Germany has been using high strength Structural Adhesives for decades... Tore apart a VW Golf, and most of the body was "glued" together. Better than welding. Sticks to anything - steels, aluminum, plastics, glass, etc. No heat affected zones. No equipment needed. Can be done anywhere, any time.
I had this on my 2001 330ci manual. Really bad. The structure has multiple layers of metal. We stitched the bottom, added strengtening plates and opened it up from the trunk also, to reattach the parts loose inside the bodyframe mounting points. Big job, but has worked well in our track car. It is right front and left rear that first give away. Ready cut repair plates cost around 150€ and we spent a day fixing it. Recommend full subframe refurbish while you are at it.
refurbish with powerflex or similiar, rubber is pointless
Good info. I’m putting a clutch on an e46 Touring this weekend so I’ll check the sub frame mounts and rear diff bushings.
The reinforcement plates are basically just a bandaid for the cracking issue, it doesn't solve the root cause. If you're planning on pushing anything over stock power figures (or have an M3), or plan to drift your E46, I'd recommend a vince bar or similar reinforcement done. I did the reinforcement plates on my '01 325Ci as a preventative measure a few years back, and I started to have hairline cracks starting to form on the most typical rear left mounting point. Since I didn't have access to a welder, I just simply slapped the reinforcement plates on with 2-component high-strength panel adhesive and have been good ever since even though the car is driven pretty enthusiastically to be said :D
wait so did the adhesive work for you or was it only a bandaid fix and the cracks came back?
@@RandomLuckk No further crack development to be seen after 22 thousand km and almost two years since doing the "repair"
The epoxy fix might be ok, surface preparation would be the key. I can see welds causing issues also. Remember, a lot of airliner parts are held together with glue.
That’s true, glue and rivets can be used instead of a weld
if its cracked it has to be welded, but if its not cracked you can epoxy the re-enforcement plates
epoxy will not solve the problem,you must weld the panels,in UK are experts in doing and seling the kit for the repair
Just going to say the same thing, in simple terms, aircraft are glued together today. If the surface prep is done properly load distribution will be better as load is spread out as to welding which localizes stresses at the weld.
I made a mistake its the NHTSA. As for older e46 if you really love the car and plan and keeping it especially standard Transmission, because they are becoming collectable now purchase the kit and take it to a body shop they will do for about $700-$1000.00. Hello 50sKid I love you (mon) Jamaican you have teach me a lot and hook me with Ismail thanks. But please don't discourage any of your fans not to purchase old BMW just tell us the problem along with you one of our leaders in the BMW community we will get it right.
The video everyone's waiting for!
I have a 05 330xi 6 speed, I'm going on 4 years of ownership, It has 120k miles, I honestly never had an issue no clunks, no check engine lights, nothing. I tend to drive it pretty chill around town, and open the throttle up on freeway. I think like a lot of people stated, the harder you drive your
e46 the more than likely its gonna break.
I had to do it on my manual 98 328i e46 (euro got them sooner than usa). It was like being in a rain of fire welding it together on my back with a flux core welder... It finally let go after a clutch dump to got some sideways fun. I have beat the shit out of it for like 8 month since the repair and renforcement and it's still holding strong. I replaced all the bushing at the same time and it has less play in the transmission now. I would highly suggest to do it on a lift if you can. And be prepared with an air hose to blow out fire, everything like to burn down there.
i watch your videos three or more times so i can get the job done right the first time
I've had 3 pre lci models and never had that issue. Interesting to see you have it
Sometimes you can't see The hair cracks underneath the car. Sometimes your have to take all apart, just to discover that you car has it!
@jose da silva thats because you didnt remove the protective undercoating lol, every e46 will have this issue due to the RCP being attached to thin sheet metal unlike every other bmw and car in existence, where they are attaching that panel to the frame legs of the car. Because of that these plates dont fix anything and you have to tie the RCP into the frame rails with something like the CMP bar/brace or the vince bar
Great overview of this problem. Thanks for sharing, Jason!
Very good info. Clear, concise, and accurate.
wish there was a donate button man your the best !!!!
my 2003 330i manual had a 12 inch long crack on the rear right subframe mounting surface. I noticed it when I was installing reinforcement plates as a precaution.
I have had 5 different E46 (all facelifts), luckily no subframe cracks. At least anything you can see axle in place.
No odd sounds or anything. I think how the car was driven early years have huge effect how subframe mounts survive.
My cars are 2003-2005 E46 and latest one is with slushbox 2005 model.
What kills the subframe is wheel hop, I have an S54 swapped sedan and I already had to repair my subframe.
Your videos have been very informative. I'm about to look at getting a 2002 M3 with manual trans. Going to have a thorough PPI done by the dealer with the cars history. I have a good idea now what to look for and what to ask about.
You guys that writing you never had this issue, it's because is not only by noise you discover cracks, but sometimes you have to take, the whole rear end apart just to see the tiny hair cracks!
I have a 2000 323i manual with 372k km in it, when I reinforced the subframe mounts I clean them to the bare metal and there was no cracks whatsoever.
@@gorgez great news then! But majority of them are shattered!
I have a manual 99 328 I've had from new. It had the issue BAD - mech who inspected said that one side had almost separated. BMW fixed it as part a class action lawsuit settlement. Was time limited so this has expired now. I have been inspecting each service and not seen any re-occurrence. Cars not exactly been treated gently, so IMHO the fix applied was a good one. Its been with my 24 Y/O son for the last 6 years with him driving like......!
To be honest at this stage and seeing how quickly it appeared in mine I would expect MOST the early cars who are susceptible to this as were NOT fixed are now out of the gene pool - What you have left are the ones that were fixed. Would be more worried about a later car that was not covered.
I believe they reinforced the subframe mounts after the 2000 MY.
Continue the great work!! Thank you for posting very important detailed information. You rock!!!
I just picked up an automatic 2001 330ci. It does have a vacuum leak but other than that it’s a good runner.
I’m glad my E46 is 2004 😂
Still cracks my guy
🤣🤣🤣
I'm enjoying the more regular content. I know it's so diffuclt to produce, but it does make such a difference. Keep it up!
I had a 2000 323i e46 with 252,000 miles and never had this issue.
Same here with 325i pre
My whole idea or theory is the diff bushing going early then the play from that causing a back and forth pull and ripping the metal
Mine looked okay when I did the subframe mounts (ECS poly), and it is an AWD, so I am hopeful that not reinforcing was not a bad decision. (edit 2001, but maybe the facelift happened part way through that year... I don't recall, my bar had an mtech bumper when I bought it).
First! Can't wait to watch this video! Helping a friend find an e46 M3 and this is a big issue for them!
At least for the M3s it going to be worth it to fix.
loved this video just for giving me peace of mind since mine's a late model auto. great review of the issue. i'd still buy the early model cars, though, if the price was right (just not to daily haha). i've watched a bunch of videos on welding in the panels and it really doesn't look hard, although that's easy for me to say since I have a welder. But folks could just rent or borrow a mig and a die grinder and just get it done; my mig is just a metal glue gun basically.
Depends how the car is driven is a big fact in these , ive seen cars with 350k miles manual with no signs of cracking or spot welds pulling , yet on my own chassis with 44k it ripped reall bad where i had cut out spare wheel well and weld extra thick metal all the way from the bottom because once you remove 2-3 layers you can actually see very bottom sheet metal that ur subframe bolts up to , since i already had bottom reinforcement done it didnt prevent it from cracking further EVEN THO I FIXED ORIGINAL CRACK IT RIPPED AGAIN but yet again 700 whp , after welding 1/4 thick metal to that sheet metal melting through it and getting to the reinforcement plates i had welded previously . So to cap this up basically once you do the bottom reinforcements , start cutting layers out untill you get to see the other side of the sheet metal where subframe bolts up , there is a lotta empty space so you can see pretty much everything thats going on , ive spotted cracks that i woulda never found without doing so . anyways after i welded lotta metal to reinforce it , its holding up fine now if youre not making power just make sure you check cracks from the trunk inside the chassis cavity
Happened on my 1999 328ci.. welded the cracking then welded pipe from top of shock tower to top of subframe mounting brackets.
My 2003 M3 CSL had it, BM replaced the boot floor & it was epoxy filled. I also have a facelift 2003 325ci Manual & that has cracks.
You look like you lost weight , you look really great bud ! Just did a ground up restoration on my 2003 M3 200K miles on it and no subframe cracking.cleaned down to bare metal and just epoxied the reinforcement on. And the epoxy method is only you don't have the cracking.
Here is the link for for the Epoxy www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000PEW4MI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 you need to buy a gun also one is enough to do the Subframe kit "ONLY IF YOU HAVE NO CRACKING" you have to grind down to the BARE metal because the undercoating is thick and can have metal cracking not visible !
Thanks!
Did the same to my 2003 Compact track day car. No cracks, it epoxied plates in just in case. Also installed the so-called VinceCups. Look up Vince and his company Practical Performance in Sweden. He makes what in my mind is the only actual fix of the root cause of the problems and not just patches to cover them. His VinceBar doesn’t fit my Compact but I would have done that if it did.
Regarding epoxies I am certain that modern epoxies are more than capable for this application. But yes only epoxy if you don’t have cracks yet.
After my e46 zf tramny rebuild reinstallation. I now hear very loud metal tapping/scrapping from bell housing area. As i turn the flywheel manually, it moves freely then gets to a point where it makes a single sudden metal tap. Then moves freely again. The noise starts after a couple seconds from the car starting. Sound becomes faster as i revv it up. The car does turn off by itself too .
Sounds like you have a clutch/pressure plate/flywheel issue. Maybe the clutch disk is in backwards & rubbing on the teeth of the pressure plate?
@@gokartsRfun i do recall the first attempt at putting back the transmission. It wasnt seated properly somewhere as i tightened it up with a huge gap on top. Maybe i bent something in the process (plate wise) Second attempt went in smoothly. 3rd time is the charm hopefully
@@gokartsRfun oh man i want to cry i paid 220$ for this frontpump. I guess TC wasnt seated properly even though i tried it many times and made sure it was. So the teeth on the TC was eating away the 2 teeth on the front pump. Luckily i have the gears from the old pump which has the 2 teeth on it. I will have to take the tranny apart again and the pump itself and replace those 2 gears.
@@gokartsRfun so i guess autozone gave me a bad remanufactured TC. Which ruined the pump teeth. My new gear set doesn't even fit it. They gave me bm44 as an exact fit for my car 2003 325ci. (It did feel like it sat in correctly plus i was able to bolt it aswell considering i ligned up the holes) would autozone refund me a new TC/ front pump due to them selling me the wrong one/TC reman faulty specs/sizing.
Your diff video helped a ton! Thank you
I don't think it's torque that causes the floor to crack..
In Europe we get the 330d. Pre-2003 (M57) those had 288lb/ft, post 2003 (M57N) they had 302 lb/ft. The M3 has 250 lb/ft. The later 330d's don't (generally) have that issue. I have the later M57N 330d myself and have owned it for 13yrs. It's been remapped and has close to 400lb/ft. Again, no subframe issues. The rest of the body is rusty as hell but the subframe is solid!
The problem is essentially because the mounting points aren't solid. Driftworks here in the UK are currently doing a E46 M3 with a V10 conversion from the E60 M5. They went through the subframe and showed exactly what it is and why it fails. They installed strengthening panels afterwards but essentially the main resolution was to weld the mount points solid to the chassis. Great video!
Also if anyone is from the UK and wants to learn more about it or needs to get the repair done - go to Redish motorsport. They have loads of info and sell the panels you need to strengthen (i'm not associated with them in any way, just a fan!).
The more torque the more chances you get to crack it
@@davidjoseramirezbravo4525 so why do the diesels not suffer the worst?
@@momoghal3711 actually they do, the force that causes the damage is twisting transmitted from the rear drivetrain, the more torque the more twist, the problem is the amount of harsh drive you put on it (hard acceleration and hard retention) take in mind that most of diesels are 320d and usually they are just commuter cars, the 330d is more rare and as a diesel it does deliver all it's torque only in the low-mid RPM, in a petrol variant you have a constant torque available in all RPM, 330d breaks transmission bendings quite easily for example but as I said you have to put lot of harsh drive using the peak torque RPM zone.
Pre-2001 has more chances to break, 2001-2003 a little less, and post 2003 a little less even, but none of the updates actually solved the problem, every e46 can break subframe.
The chances to break dependeds on the harsh drive so a petrol variant is more prone to that than a diesel by the kind of owner that will drive it.
ua-cam.com/video/hvyfSpHpx6A/v-deo.html
In this video you can see what happens when he drive a cracked subframe, take a look and put attention when he accelerates
@David José Ramírez Bravo being a 330d owner for the last 13yrs and a member of many owners clubs I can safely say diesels don't suffer as much as petrols..
No petrol, M3 included can transmit as much torque as a 330d. Incase you forgot, the M3 has 250lb/ft but being a petrol it has a linear delivery. The early 330d had 288lb/ft and being a diesel its from much lower down too.
The only difference with the M3s (similar to what you said) is because they're sports cars they get launched more often. Putting that power and torque through the rear subframe won't help when the mounts are made of cheese. That's very different to just torque being the killer.
In fact the most common variant to have the issue was the early 318i and 323i. My lawnmower has more torque than those!
Also you say because diesels aren't driven like petrols they don't crack? We have many tuned 330d's here in thd UK with some up to 500bhp so torque will into the 600s lb/ft. Launched, drifted, whatever - no cracks! Mine has been at 380lb/ft for 12yrs. Launched countless times, driven hard! Still, no cracks..
Your theory doesn't hold up based on experience.
@@momoghal3711 Bro, do you know that the subframe is the same for all variants? It is identical besides the engine! I have a 01 330i and it does not have cracks, I made the preventive reinforcement but it has no cracks when the rear drivetrain was dismounted, reason? Because it's a well maintained car not used for track days nor rally driving.
Anyway, my personal advise is simple, if anyone is willing to buy a e46, inspect the four possible crack points before buy, if you are just a commuter driver don't do the reinforcement, if you want to do sport drive do the reinforcement.
I have a 5 speed manual
April 2000 E46 323i
I checked for the subframe mount and they apeard to be fine, don't know if the previous owner in Germany did it or not but fingers crossed I hope he did
Please change the headlights lenses. They look really bad
I have a 2003 325i manual with 106k miles and I have a subframe hairline crack at the left rear. But I think it’s more of a surface rust spot.
Edit: it’s definitely a crack.
Awesome I have a 2001 325 ci I hearca little thump when I change gears I hope it's just the bushings
@@desmondmitchell5602 yeah I think it’s from the bushings. It got considerably quieter once I changed my gearbox and engine mounts as the drivetrain is a bit more stiff now. Now I only hear it from the diff but quieter but still some movement because the bushings there are old still.
I had a 2000 323i Manual and I looked around and the subframe seemed ok, I know the M3 had more issues.
Good to hear, as I've got a 2000 323ci Automatic and same here, don't have any cracks thankfully.
@@Cosmic_Ideation yea but everything else on the car will break thats why I sold it
The 3.0 Liter & M3 e46 had this problem; have not seen or heard of it on a 2.5 liter chassis.
Might be important to mention, it does not occur on Tourings afaik. I have never seen it on one atleast.
Mine did
Minor but still, hairline cracks hid behind the bushings.
2001 330i
My 2000 328i Touring has nothing. Never seen an E46 car with the problem and I spend a fair amount of time in wreckers yards.
@@DiscoFang have you had your subframe off?
@@beltdrivetypea6534 Nope. I’ve had around 70 vehicles over my years and it’s the one car I’ve had that’s required almost zero repairs in 15 years of ownership. The only place I’ve ever heard this mentioned is UA-cam & some forums. It’s clearly a weak point if cars are modified & driven over-hard but I also wonder if it’s a manufacturing location issue. All the E46s we see in my country New Zealand are either from Germany (the ones sold new here) or Asia (used imports).
@@beltdrivetypea6534 Why did you take your subframe off? How did you discover your cracks?
i have a pre lci e46 330ci, mine seems to be okay... but from the research i did online, it seems a big problem with 323i and 328i's. apparently it was corrected on the 325i and 330i which were later models
I had a 2000 e46 323i and never had this issue. It had 252k miles when sold.
So the 325i 2001 model was fixed?
@@NakaiSan. yeah it was reinforced which is why this is most common on 323 and 328's. the M3 was a whole different beast altogether with all sorts of other issues
@@FishFind3000 lucky i guess, or you had an auto as 50skid mentioned which was safer.
@@kilotangosierra bro im spanish u too? I have a 325i e46 from march of 2001. Wtf? I have problem or not xd
I’ve seen them crack so bad that they literally drop the subframe onto the ground. Coming from drifting most people avoid e46’s all together to avoid addressing the issue. Basically any performance driving will tear the subframe out of these cars.
My 1999 E46 328i with an auto trans has a clunking when shifting down to lower gears on first drive of the day. After driving a bit it quits doing it.
My mechanic checked and the rear diff bushing is split and he thinks that is the issue. What years got the facelift?
I thought the facelift cars had square foglights up front like my '99 has and now I'm confused if mine is facelifted or not.
i don't know if any other commenters have already mentioned this, but you shouldn't just automatically advice people away from purchasing early years e46. many of these cars had their rear subframe torn a decade+ ago, and back then bmw was repairing these cars free of charge. this happened to my 99 manual 328i back in the days, and bmw repaired it by cutting out nearly the entire rear floorpan and welding in a new one that is stronger. after the fix, the rear end felt more solid than ever and i drove the car for another 7 years without problems before i sold it. i guess the point i'm trying to make is that if you are in the market for an early years e46, inquire and ask for proof that the car had it's rear subframe repaired by bmw. if it has, i certainly wouldn't shy away from those cars.
I have a e46 1999 and my subframe crack Its where the differential bolts to the body BMW Had recall on airbag Malfunction and I look up subframe recall and it came up if you have a E46 M3 by court order and a case by case basis BMW will fix for free. At BMW they put in a new airbag sensor and the light was still on 6 months later NHSC notify me that BMW did not fix the issue and I should take it back. What I find with BMW is in parts and sales they are very nice to you but in service they smile in your face and don't fixed your recall problem.
I got an 04 so I'm set.
Keep it up dude you're looking great 💪
I have 3 e46s 2 of them are 328ci, both of those had cracks in the subframe. The 2001 325i didn’t. I thrash on all my cars so it definitely has to do with engine size, and type of vehicle (coupe, convertible, sedan), and year of production
I have a prefacelift 330 convertible, i see corrosion on subframe, what can i do to prevent problems ? Some said sand and coat it ...
Had to get rid of my 99 328i due to this issue :/ discovered what looked like someone punched through the driver side subframe mounting points didn’t help that the car was slammed. Lol
Definitely very dependent on how the car has been driven, IMHO. Don't dump the clutch or bang through the gears and it'll be fine. In a regular E46 with 220hp and an open differential, there really should never be much vertical force applied to those trouble areas, especially in smooth, normal driving. However, throw in 330hp, a limited slip, and the type of driver who wants an M3, and its a different story.
268,000 miles no subframe issues here, 01 sedan auto. But if I decide to keep it another 10 years I will probably reinforce it.
I recently replaced the dme,ews along with the key and lock assembly. After doing that I lock the doors manually. I didn’t program the key. I try to unlock the doors but none of the doors will don’t unlock. The windows goes down when I turn the key to the unlock position and back up in the lock position. NEED HELP
Hello my friend. Hope you can help me with thjis problem. I have a 328i e46 with an m52tu engine, and some times, when i sart the car, it takes abou 3 or 4 seconds to get started and DME shows 103 error code (INPA), and i bilieve that DME shut down the vanos. If I turn off the car and then turn on, the problem desapear. I rebuilded the vanos with new seals and the solenoids are ok. The intake camshaft sensor is new. Could you help me? thanks for you great work!!!
Jason, I really need your help with an issue with my e46. It's been there since I've owned the car and I haven't got a clue where to start.
Basically what happens is the car loses approx 50% of its power and torque. I pull over, do the throttle body reset adaptations procedure and hey presto all my powers back. Its a 2000 323i. No codes present, it's just really stumping me.
Hope you can find 2 mins to reply.
Ps did my vanos rebuild the other week perfectly following your videos. I've had an increase of 6+mpg and all my low end power has been restored.
Thank you so much for the videos and everything you do for the community.👍
Any codes in the DME or EGS?
@@50sKid fun story, I have PO340 Camshaft position A circuit malfunction. (Intake side) which had been changed twice.
Tested the harness with a multimeter and it gives me the correct voltage readings of 12v 5v and 0 v. There's continuity in the sensor also. The code will clear with inpa but come back shortly after.
Pulling my hair out over this one. The code has been here since I owned it, just under a year.
i recently had that reversing thumping problem w my 05 e46 and im hoping its a bushing issue, when i continued driving though there this bouncing in the rear and a sound like somethings knocking/rubbing/scraping, is it related?
Best thing to do is get the rear axle up in the air & do an inspection.
Time to inspect!
So i got a non facelift 2002 model should i worried that it will go out sooner or later?
thanks jason
Fixing is cheap if you diy it, welding is not that hard. Btw I think if someone has a manual and pre-does it before it breaks up, it will probs be ok only with epoxy fix too. If some has it and some not, it must need only "a tiny bit more" to hold on fine :)
So this problem does not exist in the later models of the e46? (2002-2005)
I am wondering, does wheel spacers affect this problem? I am talking about 2003 automatic sedan.
Its hit or miss, ive got a 08/1998 production 323i that i have put 280k miles on it. I even entered into a grasroots gravel race and i have never had any cracking issues. Its a sedan and the sedans have MUCH more torsional regitity in the chassis then coupes.
Do poly bushings help at rear subframe prevent it or at least slow down from cracking?or its all the same deal..?
Poly bushings transmit more drivetrain vibration into the chassis. Oem bushings take up more vibrations.
I think harder poly ones really make it crack more easily, no question on that.
I think harder poly ones really make it crack more easily, no question on that.
Is this common in xi models?
Does this apply to the convertibles too? I have a 2001 330 ci convertible. Thanks.
I have a 2001 330ci auto. It drives great. I weld though.
I have a 2001 325ci 5 speed 2.5 inline 6.. will this car do it to. Thank you
What about early XI models? I have a 330XI , 2001. I heard XI's subframes are better reinforced.
@L E46 also consider that awd cars distribute the physical load more evenly between the front and rear of the car during acceleration...
2004/05 330i manual doing a lot of drifting 😂 mine has gone to shambles I can literally see inside the chassi, if you got a manual do the reinforcement ASAP don’t feel the same as me because when it happens is nasty
2004 e46 330i, with 83,000 miles - it was an automatic car until last week, now running a ZHP 6speed tranny. X your fingers. Hopefully subframe lasts.
That's cool, how expensive and complicated was that to do? Also any ideas if you can check for cracks without going under the car or is it worth getting an inspection done by a mechanic - before buying btw.
I will be watching your dif bush video as I have a set of new RCA's and rose bushes for the upper ones as well .. might as well do all three at one that would only leave the bigger ones which i think i will just pay some else to do lol ...
Honestly.. you shoukd follow 50s Kid. Without his shared knowledge i woukd have been at the mercy of labour charges. Now i tackle anything and everything , gearbox and clutch this weekend solo on axle stands. Its nice to just have the job done but you will really appreciate doing the work yourself plus. You get a real understanding of your cars engineering and condition after looking at the underneath so long swearing at that one bolt that just wont budge .. get the spanners out 😊
I've seen the axel twist damn near off the body at the track
This video is very helpful BMW Master "Mr. Jason" (also you are a hunk)
@50skid I don't know if you want us to request/suggest videos. I know you have done oil and filter. Could you do all other serviceable fluids, filters and stuff? Like diff, breakfluid, power steering. Bmw n54. Love your videos
Do the touring models suffer this?
I have found a very viable solution to this problem, without welding, by injecting epoxy into the cavities with threaded both into holes imbedded into the epoxy, of coure the epoxy must be of high strength and hardness such as Rapidset
As i have a facelift model with modest amount of power i expect and hope to not have this issue....... It would be a big problem 🙄
Mostly i use the car as a Small Turissimo. And use the cruise control 98% of the time.
I also noticed that with disconnected MAF sensor the cruise control can not be switched on.
Hey Jason, love all the videos....you’ve been a big part of me maintaining my e46. If you don’t mind, I have a quick question. I recently re-replaced my sway bar links, and I’m still getting an annoying clunk on the passenger side, mostly around slow corners. I’ve done the struts, springs, strut mounts, plates, tie rods and last tear did the lower control arms and bushings. Anyway, I read on e46 fanatics that you need to torque the sway bar links under load, but that seems a bit weird to me. And my driver side is quiet as can be, clunk wise. Any thoughts you might have as to what I should look at would be awesome. Thanks again btw for another great video. Hope all is good out there for you 👍
No you don't have to torque the sway bar links under load. That being said, I have no idea what your clunk is. Not something I can diagnose over the internet I'm afraid. You'll have to get under there with a prybar and see what's loose.
@@50sKid , thanks for getting back to to me. I’ll double check and make sure it’s torqued enough. The sound definitely had a slightly better tone when I changed them...
BMW body shops using special epoxy injecting to the body
No welding no extra adding metal, etc
Epoxy was the BMW fix, they sold it
People in the comments are hilarious 😂 the point is that all e46’s have the same rear chassis mounts and bmw used a stupid design & thin sheet metal not reinforcing it & the way the diff is mounted all caused the rear subframe to fail and crack. Now does that mean all e46’s are cracked? No lol so the ones saying “ I’ve had 3 blah blah and never had it” ok buddy your 323i or 325i doesn’t even have that much power to do that unless you drive it or drift it like a maniac.. you could have had 10 e46’s & they can be all perfectly fine or at least seem like it because they had good previous owners, well maintained and were driven normal. Plus these cars got affordable to pretty much anyone 5-8 years ago and that means teenagers that think they are driving something with 300hp
My preface 325ci and 330i don’t have cracking at all l
Do the tourings suffer from this ?
All except Compact variants
Who gives thumb downs to these videos anyway.just wondering why they don't enjoy this video???