You can compare embiid’s dominance to shaq’s, but never generally compare embiid to Shaq. Shaq was pure strength and the guys guarding him had to foul him. Embiid is one of the biggest foul merchants in NBA HISTORY. if anything, Zion is the most similar player to Shaq in the modern NBA
@@newcastleenjoyer69 show me a video of Jokic dunking half as hard as Shaq did breaking backboards? Completely different eras , completely different skillsets
Despite the fact that wilt played against the second most HOF player at his position(only behind kareem and parish, which he played 7 years less than both) He PLAYED THE MOST TOTAL GAMES against another hof center….see list below lol (mind you these are their barefoot heights, in the modern NBA you would add 1-2 inches to their height, as players have been measured in their shoes only after 1977) C-Bill Russell: 6’10” HOF (143 games played in 9 seasons) C-Kareem Abdul Jabbar: 7'2" HOF(27 games played in 4 seasons) C-Willis Reed: 6,10” HOF(72 games played in 8 seasons) C-Walt Bellamy: 6'11" HOF(100 games played in 11 seasons) C-Artis Gilmore: 7'2" HOF C-Bob Lanier: 6'11" HOF(17 games played in 3 seasons) C-Nate Thurmond: 6'11" HOF(47 games played in 4 seasons) C-Bob McAdoo: 6’10” HOF (5 games played in 1 season) C-Elvin Hayes:6’9 “ HOF (22 games played in 4 seasons) (Wes Unseld is also a HOF center but he is 6’7) (26 times in 5 seasons) (Dave Cowens is also a HOF Center/Forward but he is 6”9)(17 games played in 3 seasons) (Connie Hawkins is also a HOF Forward/ center but he is 6”9)(31 games played in 4 seasons) (please note there are more HOF PF who guarded and were guarded by wilt chamberlain but the majority of them are 6’8 to 6’9) SO THATS 574 OUT OF 1045…WHICH TRANSLATES TO 54% OF WILTS GAMES BEING PLAYED AGAINST ANOTHER HOF CENTER…
"Tim Duncan had a 1001-391 career record for a 71.9 winning percentage." That fraction, for that volume, is nuts. The guys with better percentages played way fewer games: they either retired before they got old and declined, or they're still playing.
He arrived at a great team and great situation. He didn't have to wait several years for help. So great stat, but one that is so dependent on the loads of help ge had from day 1. Not saying he isn't an all-time great because he absolutely is, but call it for what it is - a result of having all of the necessary players around him from day 1
@@KyprosEc Thats a twitter talking point that has been debunked 1000's of times over the last four years if you watch a random response video to jimmy high rollers video chances are that random video will debunk that talking point. If you want to drag a basketball player down you should at least use a real reason there's no reason to lie and disrespect people just to validate your options on others. If you think Tim being boring is a valid reason Tim shouldn't be the goat it's your right to use Entertaiment factor for the Critia, it's your option there's no objective truth just don't lie about it. There's literality no reason to lie about it the NBA isn't going to take you to basketball jail to say I think the entertainment factor matters.
@DinoDAngelo-q9l Tim is boring? I'm re-reading my comments...don't see it. I praised Timmy a lot, but I'm not ready to call him the greatest. Slow down cowboy. No need to get emotional. I said he's an all-time great. Winning 5 chips and being the best player on your team at least 3 of 5 times in the Finals doesn't make you boring 😂😂😂
MJ has 2 out of the top 5 best seasons statistically and winning wise, he also has 2 out of the top 5 playoff runs statistically and winning wise. Nobody else is even close. Lebrons best is 11th. Lebron has just hung around long enough at a high level to start looking better, but peaks are just nowhere near the same.
@@DineroPanchero based on what I’m seeing bron didn’t get those supposed greatest rings. It was a full team effort. I’m not sure which ones you consider as greatest. I’m assuming the one against the pre KD warriors. Which clearly, clearly and third clearly, took an extremely good several games from Kyrie and solid play from the role players. It also took help from a Bogut injury and of course the infamous suspension. Did Lebron play good, yes which is why it is the 11th greatest statistical playoff performance. Now consider if that was the 11th. How good must have been MJs to be 2 in the top 5. And no matter what you say, it is harder and a much more of an accomplishment to win the third of a three peat. Which we can see by it only happening what? 7 total times and that is only if you count 11 straight as 3 3 peats. MJ did it Twice, Russell 3 times and the lakers off the top of my head. I’d tell you who didn’t do it but you already know that answer.
@@JayDay32 yeah congrats to kyrie & the role players on hitting their shots nobody said that. lebron led both teams in pts,rebounds,assist,steals,blocks. something nobody not even goat jordan has done but let’s highlight the role players hahaha. just cope with it. beat the spurs dynasty only reason tim duncan doesn’t have a 6-0 finals record. goat jordan would have not much left to bask in. lebrons 2016. 73-9 comeback win also stopped the warriors from a 4-peat nobody really cares when a stacked team keeps winning. the league was at an all time low competitive lakers 87’ & 88’, detroit 89’ & 90’, Houston 94’ & 95’. it was unusual not to win a couple in a row
Do yall understand how hard it is to three peat? Twice? Like thats still an insane feat of competition. Lebron couldnt even string two together after the Heat superteam whether that be because he chose to leave or whatever the case may be. Plus he played in the East which has been the weaker conference for a while now
@@rocbot9479 warriors with kd are better frying the bulls every matchup injured or not. dont even like them becuase lebron would have 8 but is true thats the greatest team assembled
Despite the fact that wilt played against the second most HOF player at his position(only behind kareem and parish, which he played 7 years less than both) He PLAYED THE MOST TOTAL GAMES against another hof center….see list below lol (mind you these are their barefoot heights, in the modern NBA you would add 1-2 inches to their height, as players have been measured in their shoes only after 1977) C-Bill Russell: 6’10” HOF (143 games played in 9 seasons) C-Kareem Abdul Jabbar: 7'2" HOF(27 games played in 4 seasons) C-Willis Reed: 6,10” HOF(72 games played in 8 seasons) C-Walt Bellamy: 6'11" HOF(100 games played in 11 seasons) C-Artis Gilmore: 7'2" HOF C-Bob Lanier: 6'11" HOF(17 games played in 3 seasons) C-Nate Thurmond: 6'11" HOF(47 games played in 4 seasons) C-Bob McAdoo: 6’10” HOF (5 games played in 1 season) C-Elvin Hayes:6’9 “ HOF (22 games played in 4 seasons) (Wes Unseld is also a HOF center but he is 6’7) (26 times in 5 seasons) (Dave Cowens is also a HOF Center/Forward but he is 6”9)(17 games played in 3 seasons) (Connie Hawkins is also a HOF Forward/ center but he is 6”9)(31 games played in 4 seasons) (please note there are more HOF PF who guarded and were guarded by wilt chamberlain but the majority of them are 6’8 to 6’9) SO THATS 574 OUT OF 1045…WHICH TRANSLATES TO 54% OF WILTS GAMES BEING PLAYED AGAINST ANOTHER HOF CENTER…
Even then its hard, since you have diferent criteria for a defensive player and a scoring player. I mean why is the guy that scores alot get more points than a guy who defends better. And in general the best player must be the most complete player and be the best in all aspects of the game and such player dosnt exist.
Not rlly, there's someone who has been the greatest up to this point in the NBA's lifespan. The concept of someone being greater than the other exists today, and the NBA didn't end. Similarly, the concept of "the greatest" exists even if the NBA didn't end.
how about 8 consecutive championships? When it comes to championships, Bill Russell. When it comes to individual performances and abilities: Wilt Chamberlain.
Having the all time scoring record does not make you the GOAT, otherwise every LBJ fan would have been saying Kareem was the GOAT up to the minute his record was passed. Having the most career points just means you played a lot of games (admittedly at a good level). I am more impressed with the stat for all time career points per game average, which is held by the real 🐐
1. Michael Jordan 2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 3. LeBron James 4. Stephen Curry 5. Magic Johnson 6. Tim Duncan 7. Shaquille O'Neal 8. Larry Bird 9. Wilt Chamberlain 10. Bill Russel 11. Kobe Bryant 12. Hakeem Olajuwon 13. Jerry West 14. Kevin Durant 15. Oscar Robertson HM: Dirk Nowitzki, Bob Cousy, Julius Erving
Larry Bird at 8 is crazy. People didn’t shoot 3s back then but Larry shot like Curry. Imagine if Lebron could shoot like Curry. That’s essentially bird. Wilt at 9 is also wild. He was an Olympic level long jumper at 7’3”. He could bench 600 pounds. 1) Jordan 2) Wilt 3) Bird 4) Magic 5) Lebron
MJ is Goat. His NBA finals all have a signature moment. Switch hands, shrug game, flu game, last shot. 40 point average in 93, dominant against the DPOY in 96. LBJ didn’t do anything in his finals. Just a block shot. He didn’t even show up for One of them
@@nicenice7226 He played good with cramps. And in 2013 Ray Allen, 2016 Kyrie. I watched every finals. And the Bubble was not exciting at all. But I will say this the 2013 finals is probably the greatest finals of all time.
The more I listen to it I realize the way you decided to measure this is really amazing. I don’t know if it’s perfect, but it does give a more complete answer to who’s the goat using bias and analytics at the same time. Well done 💯👌🏾
According to ChatGpt here is what it suggests. Ranking these NBA legends is always a challenge, but here’s an informed list based on overall career impact, achievements, individual dominance, and influence on the game: 1. Michael Jordan Accolades: 6x NBA Champion, 6x Finals MVP, 5x MVP, 10x Scoring Champion Why #1? Widely regarded as the GOAT, Jordan revolutionized basketball both on and off the court. His dominance in the clutch, undefeated Finals record (6-0), and ability to win consistently under pressure make him the ultimate icon in NBA history. 2. LeBron James Accolades: 4x NBA Champion, 4x Finals MVP, 4x MVP, All-time leading scorer Why #2? LeBron’s versatility, longevity, and ability to impact all facets of the game are unmatched. His 10 NBA Finals appearances over three different franchises demonstrate his ability to lead teams to success across eras. He’s the most well-rounded player ever, combining scoring, passing, rebounding, and leadership. 3. Magic Johnson Accolades: 5x NBA Champion, 3x Finals MVP, 3x MVP Why #3? Magic revolutionized the point guard position with his 6’9” frame, court vision, and incredible leadership. He was the key orchestrator of the "Showtime" Lakers and remains one of the greatest playmakers in history. 4. Bill Russell Accolades: 11x NBA Champion, 5x MVP Why #4? Russell’s 11 NBA Championships speak for themselves. His defensive dominance and leadership turned the Boston Celtics into the greatest dynasty ever. Though his offensive stats don’t stand out, his impact on the game, particularly defensively, makes him a top-tier legend. 5. Wilt Chamberlain Accolades: 2x NBA Champion, 4x MVP, 7x Scoring Champion, 100-point game Why #5? Wilt’s sheer dominance is evident in his mind-boggling stats (e.g., scoring 100 points in a game, averaging 50 points over a season). His combination of scoring, rebounding, and athletic ability redefined what a center could do, although his success in championships falls short of some others on this list. 6. Larry Bird Accolades: 3x NBA Champion, 2x Finals MVP, 3x MVP Why #6? Bird was one of the greatest shooters and smartest players ever. His fierce competitiveness, ability to deliver in clutch moments, and versatile skills as a shooter, rebounder, and passer made him one of the most dominant forces in the NBA during the 1980s. 7. Kobe Bryant Accolades: 5x NBA Champion, 2x Finals MVP, 1x MVP Why #7? Kobe’s offensive brilliance and “Mamba Mentality” earned him his place among the all-time greats. His work ethic, scoring ability, and clutch performances made him a global icon. However, compared to Jordan, LeBron, and others, his overall career achievements and efficiency fall slightly short. 8. Tim Duncan Accolades: 5x NBA Champion, 3x Finals MVP, 2x MVP Why #8? The "Big Fundamental" was the anchor of the San Antonio Spurs dynasty. Duncan’s quiet but dominant approach led to unparalleled consistency, both offensively and defensively, over two decades. His ability to lead and sustain success earns him a top-10 spot. 9. Stephen Curry Accolades: 4x NBA Champion, 2x MVP, 1x Finals MVP Why #9? Curry is the greatest shooter in NBA history and revolutionized the game with his range, accuracy, and movement. His impact on how modern basketball is played cannot be overstated, as he changed the entire league’s approach to offense. His achievements in winning 4 titles and becoming a two-time MVP solidify his legacy. 10. Kevin Durant Accolades: 2x NBA Champion, 2x Finals MVP, 1x MVP Why #10? Durant is one of the most talented scorers ever, combining size, skill, and shooting ability like no other. His back-to-back Finals MVPs and scoring prowess make him one of the best offensive players in history. However, he lacks the leadership and overall impact of some higher-ranked players. 11. Jerry West Accolades: 1x NBA Champion, 1x Finals MVP, 1x Scoring Champion Why #11? "The Logo" remains one of the greatest guards of all time, known for his clutch performances and all-around skills. While he lost in the Finals several times, his consistency, scoring ability, and leadership still make him one of the NBA’s all-time greats.
I'm watching since 1986. LeBron is my Goat. Best all around player. Leading his team at the same time. 2012-2018. MJ second. Magic, Duncan, Kobe, Bird come next. Thank you
If jordan had the longevity of lebron this wouldn’t be a debate, it’s jordan. Jordan is the greatest, and lebron may outdo him in certain parts of the game, but look at the impact jordan had on his era for the time that he could. He had to deal with a loaded eastern conference with teams like the pistons who played dirty. When lebron made his finals run in 2017-18 season he had to go through young talent (Tatum and brown) in the Boston Celtics who did not have their main option (kyrie Irving). The pistons were filled with guys in their prime like isiah and Dumars.
@@robotrobot3932 no, it was late 20s. He dropped out of MVP contention and all his numbers dropped greatly across the board despite not getting major minutes reduction until he was like 32. He's the most successful power forward of all-time not the best (which still isn't saying much, without including Centers that played PF for a time it is hard to come up with 10-15 great ones). As a player KG is probably the most complete, skilled PF that ever played and Barkley and Malone have their own stake in the debate, none of them had the winning success duncan had. Also, he played Center more than he played Power Forward in his career. He is actually arguably a center that played PF not a PF that played center. It was something like 10 years at C (which largely coincided with his production drop) and 9 at PF.
At this point I think it’s just about who’d you like as your goat if MJ was perfect then lebron James coming from where he did and doing what he did and either passing or tying or slightly below MJ is an achievement in itself
Wilt Chamberlain would've averaged a quintuple-double all stats were recorded then. He's also taller, faster, stronger and could jump higher than any player ever. And he invented the fadeaway. Multiple championships and era adjustments aside he's the goat IDC what y'all say
@@why3643 He didn't have a supporting cast. Meanwhile he was playing against a Celtics team with Bill Russell 7 All Stars. Take away accolades Wilt is the best individual player. Always has been.
There are a lot videos throughout the internet's history claiming that it's "the end of the GOAT debate." Even in the earliest days of the internet, before YT, there were videos claiming that.
There’s no “end to the goat debate” unless people become wise enough to understand it’s completely subjective and unprovable. It’s a team sport, the best players of different eras don’t play the same competition, player resumed are to a large degree determined by outside factors, even the way basketball is played has changed so substantially that you can’t necessarily say one era is better or worse than another it’s just different, And lastly because it’s subjective we all have different criteria, “eye tests” and ways of processing the information. I did enough goat debates growing up that I realized people’s arguments for individuals really just depends on how you want to frame the Information and what information you want to include or leave out to make one players career look better or worse . I just simply don’t believe Jordan vs Lebron should be the only players worth considering and it annoys me so myth when people claim one individual above the rest as if it’s not a subjective topic.
Guys their NEVER was a debate. Jordan Was considered the GOAT BEFORE Jordan entered the NBA. Once Jordan was THE GOAT IT NEVER changed and NEVER will. Jordan is that good. Let that sink in.
@@ChadBuhl what do I not get? If you say it will never change, thats not an opinion, it's a statement. If you thought it might not ever change you would have said "I think" or "in my opinion" but like with all Jordashians, there's no reality based arguments for him being the goat they bring up. Just hysteria from old feelings "they'll never be anyone better jordansexual soundin ass"🤣
The only reason why your “very robust method” of polling 100 current NBA fans ends with LeBron in a close 2nd is that LeBron benefits from a ton of recency bias. In actuality, it’s not even close that MJ is the GOAT.
Ask people over 40 with common sense who watched MJ play and now watch James. Your answers will not be that close. I guarantee you added some 20 and under kids who don’t know basketball, and never watched MJ play.
I want to ask you something. When Lebron James was playing for the Cavs in the 2009-2010 season they were first in the whole league. When Lebron left in 2010-2011 they went to the worst in the league proving Lebron was holding the team in his shoulders. The fact that one player single handedly took them to first seed then when he left they were worst in the league. Now if you look at MJ when he retired for a couple of years they won 2 less games than when MJ was there and the reason they lost the finals was because of Hakeem.
@@lilak687 You know there is this cool thing called google, we can prove you wrong in like 2.5 seconds. The truth is that he has had the most support and help around him than anyone. what's sad is you have been lied to and you believe it.
It's not losing, it's the way he lost. And didn't even engage in 4th quarters. If he took it on him self and missed heaps of shots at least it's leader mentality.
The three main factors for determining how good a player was to be considered a goat is how consistent you were in points or yards in a game, how much longevity you have, and less so but still importantly how many rings you have. This is why nobody bases G.O.A.T. status off passing yards or total points in NBA. by the logic that many Lebron fans are using, does this mean Matt Ryan is better than Aaron Rodgers?
two names nobody has ever heard of ig. But seriously... longevity? That is not a metric I would call important on who the best player is. Much more so and not less so how many rings you have. Then again, if we call it by how many rings you have then bill russel takes the cake. It's a mixture of skill, championships, impact and dominance. Unlike Jordan, Lebron james never dominated a decade. He was either overshadowed by kobe in the 2000s, curry in the 2010s and I don't think he'll win any more in the 2020s.
Broooo. So Bill Russell then???? It's best player. Not best team. Not best organization. It's best individual player. Noticed you didn't have leadership in there at all. Maybe because your love was toxic at best and quit twice. Maybe?
The GOAT is Jordan and he wins every major poll by a landslide. It's subjective but the stats, eye test, accolades, clutchness and winning pretty much confirms its Jordan.
Really? I think the opposite is true. Alot of people have him top 5 and have him over players like shaq and Duncan. I personally have Kobe at 11. all time but I understand why people have him top 10 but I don't think he's top 5 and I won't think he's over Shaq
@@spideysense1847 duncan is overrated. David Robinson is the greatest Spur of all-time, he just spent all his best years carrying a mediocre roster with a few years of rodman. He then had that terrible leg injury which cut his prime short. put him in duncan's shoes and he wins as many titles if not more.
Imagine the following career for a player. Look at those accolades! Incredible career. A Hall of Famer, a top 15 player of all time really. 2 x Champion 1 x MVP 2 x Finals MVP 1 x DPOY 4 x All Defensive 1st Team 9 x Scoring Champion 3 x Steals Champion That is the accolades difference between the GOAT and LeBron. A whole Hall of Fame/Top 15 Player of all time career between the two. That's how great Michael Jordan is. The GOAT debate isnt a debate. The real debate should be who is actually second and is it LeBron or Magic or Kareem etc
PG: Magic/Curry, SG: MJ/Kobe, SF: Bird/LaBron, PF: Duncan/KG, C: Kareem/Shaq…. I think picking a ‘GOAT’ is silly, but that would be my top 10. Anyone who watched Magic vs Bird will know that Bird was better, Magic had the better team, so bird should be one slot above Magic. Russel, Wilt, West and Oscar R all probably belong on a top 10 list, but I didn’t see them play. Luca, Joker, Giannis, and Wemby are all awesome in today’s game…. Book is not closed for them yet.
duncan is not a top 10 player, he was fortunate to play in the best run organization of the 00s. Garnett was a better player but I don't know if he is a top 10 player either. PF is probably the weakest position in the league pound for pound.
@@scottb3034 you have to actually make a team, it’s a team sport. Each position has slightly different requirements…. PF definitely favors defense and post game. In 1v1 Shaq obliterated MJ, but Shaq isn’t in the goat conversation… I think that’s dumb. GOAT is about more than athleticism. It’s also about your contribution to your team and how well you fit in that system.
@@drachimera the great news is that many centers would qualify as PFs...many SFs too. Larry Bird and Hakeem Olajuwon are just two names and superior candidates to KG and Duncan. And PF favors shooting not post game. All the elite PFs minus Dennis rodman were great jump shooters. Not all were amazing post players or as good in the post anyway. Also MJ obliterated Shaq and he is the goat. I don't get your point. And he was also more than athleticism. You don't win 6 titles with waning athleticism without IQ or skill. He had more skill and at least comparable IQ to Oscar Robertson.
@@scottb3034 Agreed that Hakeem can play PF! Dude can ball! If you go a bit deeper into the top 10 PF of all time you have Kevin McHale, a dude so famous for his post game it was literally called the torcher chamber, Charles Barkley, an absolute monster and one of the worst 3 point shooters of all time, and The Mailman, Karl Malone… again not a shooter. Dirk is a PF and absolutely a shooter, but I feel that’s the exception, not the rule. Depends on the offense and the coach. Bird, my favorite player, absolutely was a basketball genius…. Many people say ‘high basketball IQ’ about players that are not that! I find people like Joker and Bird to be so much fun to watch! Those aren’t the skills values in a PF, it’s getting the buckets! If they are at the dunker spot or down low outside the paint, the PF gets the bucket! Very different skill set than elite passers and high IQ guys, but it should be respected nonetheless
@@drachimera barkley was not a good post player, especially as he aged (there's a reason the barkley back down rule exists, if it did when he played he would score nothing out of the post because he needed that time). As for one of the worst 3 pt shooters ever...idk He shot 30% in 93 as a PF back when neither PF nor the league shot much from there. And is 26% over his career. Not good but far from horrific like say....Kareem who made one his entire career. As for Karl...he was absolutely a shooter as well. You seem to be conflating shooter with 3 pt shooting... That isn't the case. Barkley and Malone were lethal from 15-18 feet. Malone actually started to become to reliant on the lethality and it killed him in his finals appearances. Dirk is definitely a shooter as you said. Perkins out of UNC was actually a good stretch PF from the time too. He was Horry before Horry. Shot 45% for Seattle from 3 in 93 and 40% for Indiana at 38 years old in 2000! Shawn Kemp was an underrated shooter. The list can go on. Charles Oakley could jump shoot, Horace Grant too... There were great post players...but most of them played Center back then not PF. The PF were one of 3 types: Defensive, glass cleaner & put back or a jump shooter that hit from mid range. The rarities were the guys outside those typings. Out of the top 10 duncan and mchale are probably the two most true post players but duncan had a patented face up jumper he bounced off the glass frequently. Those two are also the least athletic and post player is not an athletic style. Still think if we are supposed to be making a top 10 and it has to be a viable roster Hakeem and Bird are still the best options at PF, at least if the idea is that Duncan and KG would be there if they weren't. Bird is smart enough to play 4 and still make it work since he did in Boston anyway.
Lol my opinion , there’s no 1 goat . There’s tiers for me . There’s about 10 guys I would consider the “goats” . (Bron Jordan Kobe etc. ) After that I’d rank about 50 players for all time greats (Chris Paul , Kevin Durant , Karl Malone etc.) Then about 150-200 players I would rank as all stars . ( Paul George , , Blake griffin Amare stoudamire ) Then I’d rank people as just consistent starters ( mikal bridges , luol deng , tayshaun prince etc. ) After that you’re just cool role player to be forgotten in the future lol
I agree with tiers, like the goat tier should include MJ, Kobe, Duncan, Magic, Bird, Zeke, Curry. These are players that has shown loyalty to one team (because bball is a team sport) and not jump from one team to others, won multiple chips, made their team a dynasty. And there is a tier below the goats, that include superstars but have antics attached like LeBron, KD, Kawhi. LeBron is known for flops, excuses, memes, he should not be in the goat tier. Dont let the media fool you.
The ONLY reason this one was even close is because it was made up of predominately younger audience. Most of them have never seen MJ play back in his era. That, plus recency bias. This is also obvious by how Wilt and Russell are ranked lower than they usually in rankings and where they should be ranked. If people saw both MJ and Lebron in their careers, the vast majority of them would easily pick MJ. It's not actually that close. I hope in our lifetime we will see another player dominate his era like MJ did and win at least 6 championships to make a REAL debate for the GOAT, rather than fall short in pretty much everything and ride the hype of recency bias.
This is the most Old head comment ever, You can make an argument for both, all people mention are accolades and Scoring, scoring is debatable, all Mj has is Accolades
@@Comicedits39 I'll give a longer response. Actually, the debate is pretty simple and I wouldn't say you can make an argument for both when you look into it deeply (like I have) unless you somehow value 1 category over everything else combined. The only thing Lebron has over Jordan is his fantastic longevity and everything that comes with playing more seasons like: - total accrued statistics - more total NBA and all star selections - higher analytics like WS and VORP Basically, these are ALL cumulative and are a result of playing more games/seasons in the NBA. But let's compare them more apples to apples in terms of per game statistics. This can be done multiple ways. In the traditional stats it's basically a wash since Jordan is better at ppg, bpg, spg, less tpg, and higher ft%. Lebron apg, rpg, higher fg% and 3p% However, some positions on the court are naturally better or worse at accruing certain statistics. If you compare them in their respective positions, using stat muse and comparing Jordan vs other NBA players who played 400+ games as SGs, and Lebron vs other SFs, here is how they rank: Jordan ppg 1st apg 6th rpg 3rd bpg 1st spg 2nd fg% 2nd tpg: 13th Lebron ppg 2nd apg 1st rbg 13th bpg 20th fg% 8th tpg: 1st Surpsingly, Lebron is ONLY better as a passer in their respective positions. Jordan ranks higher in scoring, rebounding, blocks, steals, field goal %, and turns the ball less. In other words, this shows Jordan was a better and more complete SG than Lebron as a SF. Per game analytics? Again Jordan wins and leads in all the ones that are widely used like PER, oBPM, dBPM, WS48, VORP adujsted pg. Accolades? Jordan won more as a team and individually. In fact, this is not even close. It's almost two times more (35 vs 18) with championships, finals mvps, mvps, dpoy, 10 scoring titles, 3 steals titles, etc. Lebron only has 1 assist title that Jordan doesn't. Basically the difference is a resume of a player ranking in the 8-15 spot all time: 2 championships 2 finals mvps 1 mvp 1 dpoy 9 scoring titles Their games? Lebron has far more obvious flaws in his game than Jordan, which are hard to ignore when calling him the "GOAT". Jordan's flaws? - shot 32.7% from 3, but players in the 80s and 90s shot around 32-33 across both decades combined. So he was average in an era where 3point shooting was a small part of the game. That's literally it. As his positional stats show above, he was more complete than any player in history because no player was elite in every category like Jordan ranking near the very top. Lebron flaws? - Lebron shoots 34.8% from 3, but that's actually below the average in his era (35.8%) where the 3 point shot is a massive part of the game. - Lebron shoots 37% outside 3 feet - Lebron shoots 38-39% from mid range - FT%? 73% (I know Lebron is an amazing finisher at the rim, but how can the goat be a BELOW average shooter almost everywhere other than dunks, layups, etc?) - Turning the ball over at a very high rate - Being an inconsistent defender. Sometimes, even resting on defense. To conclude, Lebron has the longevity, which prop up everything cumulative for him. Jordan won more as a team and individually, had a higher peak, was better statistically per game and more complete, and had far less weaknesses than Lebron. I think it's pretty obvious that for Lebron to be ahead of Jordan, he needs to be actually AHEAD in more categories, which he isn't. Not only that, but he's behind. Like I said, recency bias is what is making this closer than it is in reality.
@universalmind3963 well said. I'll also add that Jordan not only won more but also did in... less time ...While playing more 50+ Win teams ...And had a better overall record against those 50+ W teams ...all while playing with less overall all stars when on the same team (only Pippen 6 times vs Lebron's 15 all star teammates) This debate is a fucking joke.
@@universalmind3963 here’s where I comment, Lebron Is arguably more clutch then Jordan, yes I said it, numbers dont tell the whole story, If you look at their playoff statistics : Jordan Advanced LeBron 28.6 Player Efficiency 27.9 24.7 Value Over Replacement 36.1 11.1 Box Plus/Minus 10.0 39.8 Win Shares 58.7 56.8. True Shooting % 58.4 35.6 Usage % 31.7 Another argument you can make for Lebron is the Comp he has faced, so first let’s go over the teams he has faced, The San Antonio Spurs and the Kd Warriors, I’ll start with the Kd Warriors, Which is arguably the greatest team in nba history, A team Consisting of A Prime Kevin Durant, A Prime Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Draymond Green, The Warriors that season were 1st in offensive rating, 1st in defensive rating, and had 60.7 TS, and on top of that their 5 starters all could score 30+ on any given night. Also here’s the thing, Michael Jordan is not the greatest player of all time, Michael Jordan May be the greatest SYSTEM player of all time, when you look at a team sport, greatness can carry you to win. But I remember Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Kobe and Shaq losing in a finals against the Detroit pistons, who the only hall of famer on the whole team was their center who didn’t even score, because scoring is sooo fucking important right? Wrong, Defense wins Championships, Rebounding wins championships, Jordan when he didn’t have an elite Defender/ Rebounder at the power forward, not only does he not go to the finals, he don’t even compete. People Love to throw Horace grant under bus, “oh was just a role player” grant is 18th all time in offensive rebounds, that means that in the history of basketball, 20 dudes can’t rebound better than grant, Michael Jordan had THAT dude on his team, with Scottie pippen and Phil Jackson’s Triangle Offense, he didn’t anything without Scottie or Horace grant, and you’ll probably say “well he won without Horace grant when they lost Horace grant, Horace went to the Orlando Magic, you know who Jordan lost that year? The ORLANDO MAGIC, The Magic Went to the Finals, but then the next season Jordan went and they got Dennis Rodman, who has 8 all defensive teams twice as many as Horace grant,and two defensive player of the years and is 5TH all time in offensive rebounds, they just took one piece and plugged it in with something better, and when Jordan lost that year, the Magic went to the finals and got swept by the rockets, the team that the rockets beat to go to the finals was who? The San Antonio spurs, who was on that team you ask? Dennis Rodman, Rodman and grant went further than Mj, that’s how valuable defense and rebounding is, you know who was the real best player at that time? A player that you can get and build around and it really pans out to be a winning player? Hakeem Olajuwon, Hakeem came in the league the same year, while Jordan was getting swept in 86, Hakeem went to a worse team in the rockets, and went to the finals against Larry bird and the Celtics, you know the person Jordan has never beaten, hakeem took them to 6 games, leading his team in points, rebounds,steals and blocks. And then when Jordan decided to quit, Hakeem then won 2 more rings, leading his team in points, rebounds, steals and blocks, who was the guy who was really driving his team to success? He didn’t even have the same type of guys in all his team winning, that’s who you determine what player is responsible for a teams success. Jordan has had one of the best rebounding and defensive power forwards of all time, and the greatest coach of all time. And he dished off to pacsun to drain the shot and win the title, pacsun shot over 50% from the field while with the bulls, it helps when your getting doubled you can kick to a guy who shoots over 50%, but he didn’t have pacsun the whole time tho, he had Steve Kurr Who shoots over 50% from the field, and hit the game winning shot, it’s the same recipe every time he doesn’t have one of those. If he doesn’t have one of those, name a time he won, name a time he got close, name a time he was competitive, you can’t, because he’s not a winner forreal, he was apart of a winning formula, good for him, nice shoes 🤣, Lebron has shown you, making the western conference finals, with a Dude who’s NEVER coached, cough cough darvin ham, and it was his first year head coaching, all Lebron does is DRAG people to where they need to go, way more then a player should, that’s what the best player does , it’s what you can do with whatever parts that makes you great, only winning one way your whole career is greatness? Uh no thank you, if I can only win when I have all the right pieces, I’m not a fucking winner, you’re the best piece of a winning formula, this isn’t even a debate, there’s no way you can come to the conclusion that Mj is really the reason why they are 6-0 in titles, but you’re welcome to try.
@@Comicedits39 We have data from stathead (won't let me paste links) that literally prove that Jordan is much more clutch than Lebron (and it's not close) The situation: 5 seconds left in the game in the 4th quarter and the team needs to score to tie or win the game - the most obvious clutch situation there is. Lebron has a terrible 17% field goal % in this situation. 17%! That is so atrocious in the clutch. It's the opposite of "clutch". The stats only go back to 1997 so Jordan was at the very end of his career after already declining and STILL scored in the same situation so much higher with 45% 17% vs 45% isn't even close. Jordan is by far more clutch and always had a reputation (rightfully so) of being THE clutch player. Moreover, Lebron has giant black marks of him choking in the playoffs like in 2011 in the 4th quarters. Jordan would never. Yes, I can easily say Jordan had by far the most impact on those 6 winning championships on those Bulls teams because we literally have ways to MEASURE impact. In all the analytics that measure impact, Jordan's was the highest on that bulls team. Not to mention, Jordan was by the best player in ALL of the play off series in those 6 championships runs. Take out Jordan out of that team and the Bulls win ZERO championships. Replace many other players on the Bulls with other decent players, and the Bulls win championships anyway in the 90s. Why? Jordan. It's pretty damn simple and arguing that they won cause of Grant is fucking crazy. And guess what, Jordan also has a higher measured impact per game on those same impact measuring analytics than Lebron in the playoffs. Going by your logic, if defense has the highest impact on winning championships, then lol Jordan has higher impact on winning than Lebron since Jordan was a better and more consistent defender in his career. Also, a better rebounder as a SG than Lebron as a SF, like I provided statistical evidence in my previous post. Also, You showed me some playoff statistics, but I already mentioned in my previous post that Win Shares (WS) and Value Over Replacement (VORP) are CUMULATIVE stats. The only reason they are higher for Lebron is because of Lebron playing total MORE GAMES than Jordan. That's an argument for longevity, which again, I already covered in my previous post. When adjusted per game, Jordan comes on top. Jordan wins in almost everything that takes out the longevity argument. Karl Malone has a higher career Win Shares in his career than Jordan. So, does that mean Karl Malone was better? Of course not. It shows Malone played MORE TOTAL GAMES than Jordan. Just like Lebron did. You say "Michael Jordan is not the greatest player of all time". Well if Jordan isn't, then Lebron sure as hell DEFINITELY isn't either because the data and accolades says Jordan is better than Lebron on pretty much everything other than Longevity. So yeah, I'm gonna go ahead with the evidence and hard data. I'm not even going to address further the paragraph after paragraph of (incorrect) excuses you wrote on why MJ won more because here is the thing, I compared both MJ and Lebron DIRECTLY, head to head, game to game with data. Data is objective and data has no bias. You conveniently ignored all of that and proceeded to just giving me your opinion (which is purely subjective) based on nothing but your "belief" on how somehow Jordan won more cause of players like Grant (I mean, come on now) It's a common theme among Lebron fans, they start attacking eras, teammates, give a bunch of excuses etc. Why? Because Lebron cannot compete resume to resume, data to data vs MJ. They gotta find other ways. If you want to talk about teammates and competition, again the evidence tells a different story. - Jordan in his entire career played with only ONE all start teammate on the same team within the same season (Pippen) Lebron played with SIX all star teammates (AD, Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, Allen,) - Jordan faced more 50+ W teams in the playoffs than Lebron (on average) - Jordan beat those 50+ W teams 73% of the time in the playoffs while Lebron only beat 50+ W teams 57% of the time (while having more all stars on his teams) To sum it up: Jordan had less top talent in the league on his team than Lebron, Jordan played higher win teams, and beat them more often.
@@JohnGoetzGaming Only player n history Wasn’t alive in 1984 to go off a silly eye test… Phil took his system and won 5 more rings without Mike …. No Coach he played for has won without Lebron.
@@St._Matthew Jackson is a great coach for sure. We saw how well his system worked without an all time great player with the Knicks. Also lebron leaves teams when it seems like they can't win champs so yeah he strip mines the coach's teams and leaves for another super team. Way to go
@@JohnGoetzGaming Without Jordan the Bulls won 55 games .. Without Lebron Cleveland picked 1st overall 3 times , he returns and they’re n the finals 4 straight years.. it’s not a coincidence
thats just dumb? when a flashy pass first pg enters the league we ask is that the next magic? shi like that we ask mj bc hes the most iconic player oat and its easier to have mjs skill set then brons, we can see another mj esq player (like kobe) before like another bron esq player
Honestly, to me, this shouldn't even be a debate. First of all, Lebron never even manage to three-peat, rather than three-peat TWICE. Second, the defense back than makes the defense now look like a fistfight compared to WWII. Plus, who were the good players in the 2010s and 2020s? Kevin Durant? Curry? Kobe? Yeah, who were the good players in the 1980s and 1990s? Magic Johnson, Kareem, Larry Bird, James Worthy, Isiah Thomas, Clyde Drexler, Hakeem Olajuwon, prime Shaq, Penny Hardaway, Tracy McGrady, Kobe, Iverson. The list just keeps going. The so called, "King James" stats aren't even close to MJ's stats. In 2012-13, Lebron averaged 26.8 points, 8 rebounds, 7.3 assists, 0.9 blocks and 1.7 steals per game. In 1996, MJ averaged 30.4 points, 6.6 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 2.2 steals, and 1.0 blocks per game. In 2018, Lebron averaged 27.5 points, 7.1 assists, 7.9 rebounds and 0.9 blocks per game. In 1998, Jordan averaged 29 points, 8 rebounds, 7.2 assists, and 0.8 blocks per game. These stats just prove that MJ is better, though Lebron is good as well. Jordan is also 6-0 from the finals, and each finals series never went to a game seven. Lebron is 4-10 from the finals, being swept twice. Even though He and Kyrie took the Cavs to the 2016 finals and overcame a 3-1 lead, Jordan, is still the better player. Jordan also had worse teammates. Lebron had Chris Bosh, Kyrie Irving, a prime Anthony Davis, Dwayne Wade, Kevin Love, Ray Allen, and even Shaquille O'Neal. MJ only had Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman and who? Steve Kerr? I will admit that Lebron is a more gifted and talented player, and is stronger and more athletic, but as it seems now, Jordan is still the best player to ever play the game of basketball.
7:23 recently aka (by June 3rd) there’s been this conversation about legacy in the sport of football or soccer. And it’s being brought up because a team has a bunch of players with 6 Ucl wins, but honestly aren’t considered all time greats. And legacy has been brought up because a certain player has like 6 Ucl medals, but another player only has 2? But everybody collectively thinks the one with 2 wins is better. Curry may not be considered the goat of basketball, but his legacy is up there with the best. He’s up there with Jordan because of how he changed basketball forever
@@Xenovation3334 and got stopped, keep proving my point. Jordon was his team. He made all his teammates better. Lebron has had many big names on his team and still got slaughtered.
@@-obscure- Ah, yes 2007: LeBron vs Spurs 2011: This is his only bad series 2014: Played against the Big 3 Celtics with a declining Wade and Bosh 2015: Lost because of teammate injuries 2017: Had to play against KD, Steph, Draymond, and Klay 2018: Repeat of 2017, but without Kyrie
The fact that MJ is undoubtedly the greatest basketball player ever is unquestionable! The fact that this ridiculous GOAT debate is still on going, is just ridiculous beyond belief. Seriously, this needs to STOP!
The one thing we can say is MJ and Bron are 1 & 2, whoever you put above out the 2 is your opinion. Both have shouts in different areas... Anyone who uses rings in a team sport for an individual debate is stupid aswell.
The people who say MJ generally say Lebron isn’t even close. The people that say Lebron don’t say that about MJ. This tells me it’s MJ. I actually agree pretty closely with the rankings on this list though. Good job.
Wrong about players having a second job in the 60s. Very few did. In the early 50s, it was far more common, but by the 60s almost anyone in the NBA could make a comfortable living just by playing in the league. In 1960 the average NBA salary was 15k which equates to 150k today.
Which was his brother, Larry Jordan - was better than MJ (stated by the GOAT himself) in every way, just didnt become known and 'great' like MJ due to his height. He was 5'9. MJ himself said that he wouldve been known as 'Larry Jordans brother' if his brothrt were to play in the NBA
I can see a debate about Lebron being #2, but not Jordon v LeBron. I just found out Jordan ran a 4.3 40. His early years were insane. Seeing the highlights, he was so incredibly fast. I just remember his jumping, but no one could guard him because he just run to wherever he wanted to shoot from and shoot. Year 3, iirc, he played every minute of every game. And he played with Jordan-like intensity.
I think what factors in a lot is what era you grew up in. For example, someone who grew up in 60s would say Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West would be in. 70s they’d say Kareem, Pete Maravich, Bob Lanier, Bob McAdoo (73-78 definitely). 80s onwards though there’s so many great names who you’d consider in that top 5 (Bird, Bryant, Ewing, M Malone, C Maline, M Johnson, T Duncan, Lebron, Curry, Nowitski, Shaq, Barkley and so on) But ask most people of any era who would be at the top of the list as greatest, 99/100 it’d be MJ. End of Discussion.
I feel like it should always be based on talent, talent played, and eras. When it comes to the late 80s to the late 90s.. nobody is touching MJ. When it comes to the late LATE 90s to the early 2000s, I don’t think anyone touches Kobe. From 2008 up to now, I don’t think anyone, at least qualified to be anywhere near the goat debate, touches LeBron. All goats of their respective eras but.. you gotta look at everything that went down IN those eras to come to the full story of it.
@@RoyalMorris-t9x He changed the game forever. I feel like that’s a massive thing to throw on his resume but that doesn’t make him a goat caliber player. He’s the reason the game is what it is now, but I wouldn’t say having a game that transforms the entire league around you makes you the greatest of all time. It just makes you a REAL generational talent.
@@vise_atoxity8083 that's why he never calls himself the goat mj has respect and spoke on the goat and that's nothing u need to worry about if u really are a goat it will show people Will say ur name because of the excellent he brings and willing to score every single point lock u down shoot that 3 dunk finesse man lifer
@@RoyalMorris-t9x Bro I’m not gonna lie I don’t even know what that’s talking about. MJ or Curry? And if it’s MJ, what the hell was the point in bringing up Curry?
I've been watching basketball since 2000, this is my top 11 of players I've watched: 1 Kobe Bryant 2 Shaquille O'Neal 3 Stephen Curry 4 Tim Duncan 5 Lebron James 6 Kevin Garnett 7 Kevin Durant 8 Nikola Jokic 9 Giannis Antetokounmpo 10 Dirk Nowitzki 11 Dwyane Wade
@@dennisjohnson1709agreed. 1. MJ 2. Kareem 3. Bird 4. Magic 5. Kobe 6. Tim Duncan 7. Hakeem 8. Jerry West 9. Wilt Chamberlain 10. Bill russell That’s my top 10. Lebron isn’t even in my top 15 probably
This shouldn't still be a debate. If you could only pick one going into the NBA finals, all things else equal, who you picking? Im taking MJ every time.
2012, 2016 Lebron was one of the greatest display of pure talent if not whole history of NBA. Imagine being able to put your team on your back and deliver when it mattered the most.
@@damasame and you’re old, yo idols be old and won’t fare in this current league players. Bet Jordan would be dropping 15 pts avg in this current league.
The GOAT debate is just stupid at this point. It’s like people just focus solely on accolades and not how good a player actually was/is on the court. You can look up some of the old games and it shows which players were truly great at basketball and ahead of their time the “GOAT” debate is not even who’s the greatest of all time anymore it’s the greatest of accomplishments tallying🤦🏽♂️
Jordan 1984 rookie year nba all star sweep performance in his first professional appearance proves who is best ever. Still till this day no one has ever seen anyone dominate the way he dominated against ALL the professional All-Stars in the league. The elevation of his game is an elevation in a physical presence looking down on the NBA from in the air no one will ever have his view from that place ever.
LeBron James' legacy is undeniably impressive, but it’s time to critically examine the cracks in the facade that his supporters often overlook. While he’s earned accolades and respect as one of the game’s greatest, his journey to success has been marred by decisions that raise serious questions about his competitive spirit and work ethic. LeBron’s first stint in Cleveland is a prime example of his inability to rise to the challenge when the going got tough. Frustrated by his inability to deliver a championship, he chose to leave rather than stay and build a winning team. In stark contrast, Michael Jordan, who faced years of frustration with the Chicago Bulls, never considered abandoning his team. Instead, he stayed, pushed through adversity, and elevated his teammates to a level they didn't even know they could reach, leading them to six NBA championships. That’s the kind of perseverance and leadership that defines true greatness-not hopping from city to city in search of an easier path to glory. LeBron’s decision to form a superteam in Miami by aligning himself with fellow NBA elites Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh was a clear indication that he wasn’t willing to do the hard work necessary to win on his own terms. Jordan didn’t call up Magic Johnson or Larry Bird to create a superteam when the Bulls were struggling. He fought through the challenges, and by doing so, he redefined what it means to be a champion. LeBron, on the other hand, took the easy way out, and for that, he lost the respect of many purists of the game. The 2019-2020 season with the Los Angeles Lakers further highlights the hollow nature of LeBron’s achievements. That year, the season was interrupted by the COVID-19 pandemic, leading to a shortened and highly irregular “bubble” season. Teams were scrambling to fill their rosters with players from retirement and the G-League just to compete. The Lakers may have emerged as champions, but the circumstances surrounding that victory are far from convincing. Can we genuinely consider this a true championship, or was it just a fortunate outcome of an unprecedented situation? For many, this was not a legitimate title, and it certainly feels like it will be LeBron’s last. Since that 2020 “bubble” championship, the Lakers have been a team packed with talent, yet their results have been disappointing, to say the least. With a roster that included the likes of Russell Westbrook, Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard, Anthony Davis, and a host of other NBA stars, the Lakers should have been unstoppable. But they’ve struggled to even make the playoffs consistently, let alone win another championship. Can you imagine what Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan would have done with this level of talent? Rings on their toes, indeed. The ongoing failure of the Lakers, despite their star-studded lineup, tells you everything you need to know about LeBron James. He’s been crowned “The King,” but the truth is, he doesn’t live up to the title. Real kings don’t run away when things get tough. They don’t rely on forming alliances with other superstars to secure victories. They lead their teams through adversity, inspire their teammates, and leave a legacy built on hard work and unwavering commitment. In the end, LeBron’s career will be remembered for its achievements, but it will also be marked by missed opportunities and questionable decisions. He’s a great player, no doubt, but the greatness we’ve seen from the likes of Jordan and Kobe is of a different caliber. LeBron James will be associated with wearing the crown, but history will remember that it never quite fit.
Wilt Chamberlain averaged 40 ppg for 515 consecutive games. Rank #2 in that category goes to Elgin Baylor with 33 consecutivee games scoring 40 ppg average. Wilt also grabbed 25 rebounds per game average for those 515 games. It's not even close...
Before really getting into this video, just from hearing the narrator’s voice, i find it difficult to trust anything someone says when they didn’t watch the nba in the 90s. Ive come to realize people that watched in the 90s (or even before that) and still watch today have the best perspective when it comes to this conversation. I’m not saying what they say is gospel, but you atleast take what they say with a grain of salt. Someone who started watching in the mid 2000s or even later just don’t have the perspective to take anything they say seriously, or even with a grain of salt
Need some video ideas where I can ask you guys questions and get you involved. What do you wanna see?
Is the Warriors Dyansty Over?
Greatest duos that could’ve won a ring (eg T Mac and V Carter or KD and Russ)
@nba-swoops
bro yes
Break down actual match ups. Like the MAVS vs C’s.
The greatest teams of all time
You can compare embiid’s dominance to shaq’s, but never generally compare embiid to Shaq. Shaq was pure strength and the guys guarding him had to foul him. Embiid is one of the biggest foul merchants in NBA HISTORY. if anything, Zion is the most similar player to Shaq in the modern NBA
Jokic is Shaq with a deeper skill set
@@newcastleenjoyer69 show me a video of Jokic dunking half as hard as Shaq did breaking backboards?
Completely different eras , completely different skillsets
Zion is him
Despite the fact that wilt played against the second most HOF player at his position(only behind kareem and parish, which he played 7 years less than both) He PLAYED THE MOST TOTAL GAMES against another hof center….see list below lol
(mind you these are their barefoot heights, in the modern NBA you would add 1-2 inches to their height, as players have been measured in their shoes only after 1977)
C-Bill Russell: 6’10” HOF (143 games played in 9 seasons)
C-Kareem Abdul Jabbar: 7'2" HOF(27 games played in 4 seasons)
C-Willis Reed: 6,10” HOF(72 games played in 8 seasons)
C-Walt Bellamy: 6'11" HOF(100 games played in 11 seasons)
C-Artis Gilmore: 7'2" HOF
C-Bob Lanier: 6'11" HOF(17 games played in 3 seasons)
C-Nate Thurmond: 6'11" HOF(47 games played in 4 seasons)
C-Bob McAdoo: 6’10” HOF (5 games played in 1 season)
C-Elvin Hayes:6’9 “ HOF (22 games played in 4 seasons)
(Wes Unseld is also a HOF center but he is 6’7) (26 times in 5 seasons)
(Dave Cowens is also a HOF Center/Forward but he is 6”9)(17 games played in 3 seasons)
(Connie Hawkins is also a HOF Forward/ center but he is 6”9)(31 games played in 4 seasons)
(please note there are more HOF PF who guarded and were guarded by wilt chamberlain but the majority of them are 6’8 to 6’9)
SO THATS 574 OUT OF 1045…WHICH TRANSLATES TO 54% OF WILTS GAMES BEING PLAYED AGAINST ANOTHER HOF CENTER…
I dunno Bro, zion isn't even as strong as heat bron
Finally we now know for sure that Chase Budinger is the greatest basketball player of all time
YES
It’s thanasis what r u talking about
No it's Candace parker
@@Evantosmooth who the he'll is named Candace Parker in the NBA
Air bud!
"Tim Duncan had a 1001-391 career record for a 71.9 winning percentage."
That fraction, for that volume, is nuts. The guys with better percentages played way fewer games: they either retired before they got old and declined, or they're still playing.
He arrived at a great team and great situation. He didn't have to wait several years for help.
So great stat, but one that is so dependent on the loads of help ge had from day 1. Not saying he isn't an all-time great because he absolutely is, but call it for what it is - a result of having all of the necessary players around him from day 1
@@KyprosEc Thats a twitter talking point that has been debunked 1000's of times over the last four years if you watch a random response video to jimmy high rollers video chances are that random video will debunk that talking point.
If you want to drag a basketball player down you should at least use a real reason there's no reason to lie and disrespect people just to validate your options on others.
If you think Tim being boring is a valid reason Tim shouldn't be the goat it's your right to use Entertaiment factor for the Critia, it's your option there's no objective truth just don't lie about it.
There's literality no reason to lie about it the NBA isn't going to take you to basketball jail to say I think the entertainment factor matters.
@DinoDAngelo-q9l Tim is boring? I'm re-reading my comments...don't see it. I praised Timmy a lot, but I'm not ready to call him the greatest. Slow down cowboy. No need to get emotional. I said he's an all-time great. Winning 5 chips and being the best player on your team at least 3 of 5 times in the Finals doesn't make you boring 😂😂😂
and 5 rings during the Kobe & Shaq era and the Lone Gunslinger Kobe era
@@KyprosEc Tim Duncan came into the league and played at a high level.
MJ has 2 out of the top 5 best seasons statistically and winning wise, he also has 2 out of the top 5 playoff runs statistically and winning wise. Nobody else is even close. Lebrons best is 11th. Lebron has just hung around long enough at a high level to start looking better, but peaks are just nowhere near the same.
bron got the two greatest rings in nba history carry the hell on with “2 of top 5 statistical & winning wise” 🤓
@@DineroPanchero based on what I’m seeing bron didn’t get those supposed greatest rings. It was a full team effort. I’m not sure which ones you consider as greatest. I’m assuming the one against the pre KD warriors. Which clearly, clearly and third clearly, took an extremely good several games from Kyrie and solid play from the role players. It also took help from a Bogut injury and of course the infamous suspension. Did Lebron play good, yes which is why it is the 11th greatest statistical playoff performance. Now consider if that was the 11th. How good must have been MJs to be 2 in the top 5. And no matter what you say, it is harder and a much more of an accomplishment to win the third of a three peat. Which we can see by it only happening what? 7 total times and that is only if you count 11 straight as 3 3 peats. MJ did it Twice, Russell 3 times and the lakers off the top of my head. I’d tell you who didn’t do it but you already know that answer.
@@DineroPancherobron averaged 2 pts in the 4th quarter in every game in the finals against the mavs with dirk.
@@PapaStel25 one of the worst performances i’ve ever seen from a superstar. still has 2 heavy rings
@@JayDay32 yeah congrats to kyrie & the role players on hitting their shots nobody said that. lebron led both teams in pts,rebounds,assist,steals,blocks. something nobody not even goat jordan has done but let’s highlight the role players hahaha. just cope with it. beat the spurs dynasty only reason tim duncan doesn’t have a 6-0 finals record. goat jordan would have not much left to bask in. lebrons 2016. 73-9 comeback win also stopped the warriors from a 4-peat nobody really cares when a stacked team keeps winning. the league was at an all time low competitive lakers 87’ & 88’, detroit 89’ & 90’, Houston 94’ & 95’. it was unusual not to win a couple in a row
Wait, what? I thought the goat debate was ‘89 MJ vs ‘96 MJ
Meh, bron clears
@@erabu4395Meh, wilt chamberlain solo bron
@@erabu4395Lebron's best season barely clears MJ's worst season. 😂
@@bakerieseater Are you dumb
Ask dis bruh.
“I want IGUODALA…”
yes
@@ModernTwoThreeI WANT TJ MCCONNELL
Do yall understand how hard it is to three peat? Twice? Like thats still an insane feat of competition. Lebron couldnt even string two together after the Heat superteam whether that be because he chose to leave or whatever the case may be. Plus he played in the East which has been the weaker conference for a while now
Eastern conference wasn’t stacked either back then.
Both legends
Thats why I have the 96 bulls over KD warriors. Even THEY couldn't string 3 in a row with their OP squad.
Bill Russell
@@rocbot9479 warriors with kd are better frying the bulls every matchup injured or not. dont even like them becuase lebron would have 8 but is true thats the greatest team assembled
Real fans know this is a repost 😂
Yessir. There was a problem with the original version😭
yeah i was about to say how is he saying that jokic might win his second chip this year 😭
bro i swear, when he said babytron i was like..... mmmm ive heard this one before
Realized that too LoL
Despite the fact that wilt played against the second most HOF player at his position(only behind kareem and parish, which he played 7 years less than both) He PLAYED THE MOST TOTAL GAMES against another hof center….see list below lol
(mind you these are their barefoot heights, in the modern NBA you would add 1-2 inches to their height, as players have been measured in their shoes only after 1977)
C-Bill Russell: 6’10” HOF (143 games played in 9 seasons)
C-Kareem Abdul Jabbar: 7'2" HOF(27 games played in 4 seasons)
C-Willis Reed: 6,10” HOF(72 games played in 8 seasons)
C-Walt Bellamy: 6'11" HOF(100 games played in 11 seasons)
C-Artis Gilmore: 7'2" HOF
C-Bob Lanier: 6'11" HOF(17 games played in 3 seasons)
C-Nate Thurmond: 6'11" HOF(47 games played in 4 seasons)
C-Bob McAdoo: 6’10” HOF (5 games played in 1 season)
C-Elvin Hayes:6’9 “ HOF (22 games played in 4 seasons)
(Wes Unseld is also a HOF center but he is 6’7) (26 times in 5 seasons)
(Dave Cowens is also a HOF Center/Forward but he is 6”9)(17 games played in 3 seasons)
(Connie Hawkins is also a HOF Forward/ center but he is 6”9)(31 games played in 4 seasons)
(please note there are more HOF PF who guarded and were guarded by wilt chamberlain but the majority of them are 6’8 to 6’9)
SO THATS 574 OUT OF 1045…WHICH TRANSLATES TO 54% OF WILTS GAMES BEING PLAYED AGAINST ANOTHER HOF CENTER…
Bill russel had his jersey retired league wide. Wow. Incredible
Lebron james wears 6
@@ACTIVlS.1That’s only cause he was already wearing it when they retired, he’ll have to change back to 23 this season
There were only 10 or so teams he had to compete with back then
“4… Babytron” and now I’m subscribed to this channel😭
Same . Lol ngl Tron be saying shit
He knows ball
Tron unironically does know ball. 😭😭 I’m subscribed lmaooo
😭😭 he really does. Thanks bro
In my opinion there can't be a "GOAT" until the NBA ends.
Hmmm interesting
Even then its hard, since you have diferent criteria for a defensive player and a scoring player.
I mean why is the guy that scores alot get more points than a guy who defends better. And in general the best player must be the most complete player and be the best in all aspects of the game and such player dosnt exist.
I agree, even MJ himself said that
Not rlly, there's someone who has been the greatest up to this point in the NBA's lifespan. The concept of someone being greater than the other exists today, and the NBA didn't end. Similarly, the concept of "the greatest" exists even if the NBA didn't end.
I would agree normally. Except there is MJ
Two three-peats is exceptionally hard to beat. The accolades? Well, do some research. It becomes apparent pretty quickly.
how about 8 consecutive championships? When it comes to championships, Bill Russell. When it comes to individual performances and abilities: Wilt Chamberlain.
Wilt chamber but Bill Russell no he was known for great defense not offense he was the Dennis rodman of the team what's not the first option
And it was only 11 teams when Bill Russell was there
Absolutely. It's hard to tie too.
@@mdhighter75 Doesn't less teams mean more density of talent per team?
1 Jordan
2 LeBron
3 Kareem
4 Wilt
5 Kobe
6. Bird
7.Shaq
8 . magic
9. Hakeem
10. Dr J
Valid but I think bron over Jordan and wilt isn’t over Kobe but good list
@@DrBeauHightower I agree
Wilt too high tbh
Id also put curry around top 7 or 8
Having the all time scoring record does not make you the GOAT, otherwise every LBJ fan would have been saying Kareem was the GOAT up to the minute his record was passed. Having the most career points just means you played a lot of games (admittedly at a good level). I am more impressed with the stat for all time career points per game average, which is held by the real 🐐
I am also not impressed by someone who has so many rumors or red flags about PED use
Interesting but fair
nah, 40,000 thousand points should at least be an argument
@@alanaldpal950Literally the only folks talking about that are Bron Haters. That's it😂😂😂😂😂😂
There is no medicine for stupidity
If you see and saw basketball..the argument its just stupid. You can't put LJ in the same universe as MJ..you can't!
chill out unc
👍
Sure you can
MJ GOAT and it's not even close.
This is the most old head statement I seen bro 💀
Jordan is so much better than Lebron. It's not even close.
nah
The real goats are the friends we've made along the way. Awdsome video bro, subbed.
Thank u bro and facts
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. LeBron James
4. Stephen Curry
5. Magic Johnson
6. Tim Duncan
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Larry Bird
9. Wilt Chamberlain
10. Bill Russel
11. Kobe Bryant
12. Hakeem Olajuwon
13. Jerry West
14. Kevin Durant
15. Oscar Robertson
HM: Dirk Nowitzki, Bob Cousy, Julius Erving
Curry ahead of Kobe Bryant ? Yeah ol
@@tezzpalmer7014 Obviously, he doesn’t crack my Top 10; meanwhile, the GOAT shooter is #4.
Larry Bird at 8 is crazy. People didn’t shoot 3s back then but Larry shot like Curry. Imagine if Lebron could shoot like Curry. That’s essentially bird.
Wilt at 9 is also wild. He was an Olympic level long jumper at 7’3”. He could bench 600 pounds.
1) Jordan
2) Wilt
3) Bird
4) Magic
5) Lebron
@@futurereflections4097zip their pants up when you’re done
@@futurereflections4097 lebron at 5??
MJ is Goat. His NBA finals all have a signature moment. Switch hands, shrug game, flu game, last shot. 40 point average in 93, dominant against the DPOY in 96. LBJ didn’t do anything in his finals. Just a block shot. He didn’t even show up for One of them
my man he went to 10, also has plenty of moments if you watched ball this dude in the clutch was a monster in 12 for example
@@nicenice7226 what moments? In the finals the NBA’s greatest stage.
@@nicenice7226 He played good with cramps. And in 2013 Ray Allen, 2016 Kyrie. I watched every finals. And the Bubble was not exciting at all. But I will say this the 2013 finals is probably the greatest finals of all time.
Might as well do tricks on it😭
@@apollorivers talking about basketball bro. I don’t want to know about your personal life. Or whatever you like to do.
The more I listen to it I realize the way you decided to measure this is really amazing. I don’t know if it’s perfect, but it does give a more complete answer to who’s the goat using bias and analytics at the same time. Well done 💯👌🏾
as a jordan glazer i was scared all video until i saw my glorious king at number 1. (bulls fan)
According to ChatGpt here is what it suggests.
Ranking these NBA legends is always a challenge, but here’s an informed list based on overall career impact, achievements, individual dominance, and influence on the game:
1. Michael Jordan
Accolades: 6x NBA Champion, 6x Finals MVP, 5x MVP, 10x Scoring Champion
Why #1? Widely regarded as the GOAT, Jordan revolutionized basketball both on and off the court. His dominance in the clutch, undefeated Finals record (6-0), and ability to win consistently under pressure make him the ultimate icon in NBA history.
2. LeBron James
Accolades: 4x NBA Champion, 4x Finals MVP, 4x MVP, All-time leading scorer
Why #2? LeBron’s versatility, longevity, and ability to impact all facets of the game are unmatched. His 10 NBA Finals appearances over three different franchises demonstrate his ability to lead teams to success across eras. He’s the most well-rounded player ever, combining scoring, passing, rebounding, and leadership.
3. Magic Johnson
Accolades: 5x NBA Champion, 3x Finals MVP, 3x MVP
Why #3? Magic revolutionized the point guard position with his 6’9” frame, court vision, and incredible leadership. He was the key orchestrator of the "Showtime" Lakers and remains one of the greatest playmakers in history.
4. Bill Russell
Accolades: 11x NBA Champion, 5x MVP
Why #4? Russell’s 11 NBA Championships speak for themselves. His defensive dominance and leadership turned the Boston Celtics into the greatest dynasty ever. Though his offensive stats don’t stand out, his impact on the game, particularly defensively, makes him a top-tier legend.
5. Wilt Chamberlain
Accolades: 2x NBA Champion, 4x MVP, 7x Scoring Champion, 100-point game
Why #5? Wilt’s sheer dominance is evident in his mind-boggling stats (e.g., scoring 100 points in a game, averaging 50 points over a season). His combination of scoring, rebounding, and athletic ability redefined what a center could do, although his success in championships falls short of some others on this list.
6. Larry Bird
Accolades: 3x NBA Champion, 2x Finals MVP, 3x MVP
Why #6? Bird was one of the greatest shooters and smartest players ever. His fierce competitiveness, ability to deliver in clutch moments, and versatile skills as a shooter, rebounder, and passer made him one of the most dominant forces in the NBA during the 1980s.
7. Kobe Bryant
Accolades: 5x NBA Champion, 2x Finals MVP, 1x MVP
Why #7? Kobe’s offensive brilliance and “Mamba Mentality” earned him his place among the all-time greats. His work ethic, scoring ability, and clutch performances made him a global icon. However, compared to Jordan, LeBron, and others, his overall career achievements and efficiency fall slightly short.
8. Tim Duncan
Accolades: 5x NBA Champion, 3x Finals MVP, 2x MVP
Why #8? The "Big Fundamental" was the anchor of the San Antonio Spurs dynasty. Duncan’s quiet but dominant approach led to unparalleled consistency, both offensively and defensively, over two decades. His ability to lead and sustain success earns him a top-10 spot.
9. Stephen Curry
Accolades: 4x NBA Champion, 2x MVP, 1x Finals MVP
Why #9? Curry is the greatest shooter in NBA history and revolutionized the game with his range, accuracy, and movement. His impact on how modern basketball is played cannot be overstated, as he changed the entire league’s approach to offense. His achievements in winning 4 titles and becoming a two-time MVP solidify his legacy.
10. Kevin Durant
Accolades: 2x NBA Champion, 2x Finals MVP, 1x MVP
Why #10? Durant is one of the most talented scorers ever, combining size, skill, and shooting ability like no other. His back-to-back Finals MVPs and scoring prowess make him one of the best offensive players in history. However, he lacks the leadership and overall impact of some higher-ranked players.
11. Jerry West
Accolades: 1x NBA Champion, 1x Finals MVP, 1x Scoring Champion
Why #11? "The Logo" remains one of the greatest guards of all time, known for his clutch performances and all-around skills. While he lost in the Finals several times, his consistency, scoring ability, and leadership still make him one of the NBA’s all-time greats.
I'm watching since 1986. LeBron is my Goat. Best all around player. Leading his team at the same time. 2012-2018. MJ second. Magic, Duncan, Kobe, Bird come next. Thank you
iv been watchin since kareem became a laker, i gotta agree
bron just has everythin
Why the gap between magic and bird and no Kareem?
If jordan had the longevity of lebron this wouldn’t be a debate, it’s jordan. Jordan is the greatest, and lebron may outdo him in certain parts of the game, but look at the impact jordan had on his era for the time that he could. He had to deal with a loaded eastern conference with teams like the pistons who played dirty. When lebron made his finals run in 2017-18 season he had to go through young talent (Tatum and brown) in the Boston Celtics who did not have their main option (kyrie Irving). The pistons were filled with guys in their prime like isiah and Dumars.
Dang unc😂
Are there still delusional people in 2024 who actually thinks LeBron is even a top 5 player 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I'm so happy Tim Duncan isn't forgotten, he's the most underrated player ever man
absolutely not. he is massively overrated. He stopped being a superstar by the time he was 28...David Robinson is the guy that's underrated.
@@scottb3034 I'd say he stopped at like his mid thirties and he's literally the best pwoer forward of all time.
@@robotrobot3932 no, it was late 20s. He dropped out of MVP contention and all his numbers dropped greatly across the board despite not getting major minutes reduction until he was like 32.
He's the most successful power forward of all-time not the best (which still isn't saying much, without including Centers that played PF for a time it is hard to come up with 10-15 great ones). As a player KG is probably the most complete, skilled PF that ever played and Barkley and Malone have their own stake in the debate, none of them had the winning success duncan had.
Also, he played Center more than he played Power Forward in his career. He is actually arguably a center that played PF not a PF that played center. It was something like 10 years at C (which largely coincided with his production drop) and 9 at PF.
At this point I think it’s just about who’d you like as your goat if MJ was perfect then lebron James coming from where he did and doing what he did and either passing or tying or slightly below MJ is an achievement in itself
Real
1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. LeBron
4. Kareem
5. Bird or Magic
Good list
BRO KOBE IS NOT BETTER THAN LEBRON
Wilt Chamberlain would've averaged a quintuple-double all stats were recorded then. He's also taller, faster, stronger and could jump higher than any player ever. And he invented the fadeaway. Multiple championships and era adjustments aside he's the goat IDC what y'all say
Still barely won titles
@@why3643 He didn't have a supporting cast. Meanwhile he was playing against a Celtics team with Bill Russell 7 All Stars. Take away accolades Wilt is the best individual player. Always has been.
He didn't invent that Oscar Roberson or Elgin if he did that's a hell of a move for a man his size
WILT HAS A TRIPLE DOUBLE IN FIVE CATEGORIES OF BASKETBALL PTS REBS BLKS STLS AND ASTS HOW MANY OTHERS HAVE THAT RECORD NOT THAT MANY
1. Jordan 2. lebron 3. Kareem 4. Magic 5. Wilt
It's bron for me but I think anyone can have their opinion, as long as it's bron or MJ 😂😂
Basically
Lefraud isn’t even top 3
@@paulwilliams2024attention seeking ass 💀
@@paulwilliams2024 hes #2
Karrems and kobi@@fezza6143
There are a lot videos throughout the internet's history claiming that it's "the end of the GOAT debate." Even in the earliest days of the internet, before YT, there were videos claiming that.
don't disrespect the GOATs TJ and Myles by comparing them to bums like Shaq and Kobe!
My b
I love the twitch streamer comparison… it’s honestly a great one
"Kobe Bean Bryant" 🎉🎉🎉
Yessir
Yessir
There’s no “end to the goat debate” unless people become wise enough to understand it’s completely subjective and unprovable. It’s a team sport, the best players of different eras don’t play the same competition, player resumed are to a large degree determined by outside factors, even the way basketball is played has changed so substantially that you can’t necessarily say one era is better or worse than another it’s just different,
And lastly because it’s subjective we all have different criteria, “eye tests” and ways of processing the information.
I did enough goat debates growing up that I realized people’s arguments for individuals really just depends on how you want to frame the Information and what information you want to include or leave out to make one players career look better or worse .
I just simply don’t believe Jordan vs Lebron should be the only players worth considering and it annoys me so myth when people claim one individual above the rest as if it’s not a subjective topic.
whats with the name change? I really loved your "modern jam" with the purple logo tbh (content better than ever though)
i was confused frfr bc idek who this imposter was
Still me😭😂😂. Thanks tho for the content appreciation
What caused the name change?
Asking 100 people isn't the "End of the goat debate"
Guys their NEVER was a debate. Jordan Was considered the GOAT BEFORE Jordan entered the NBA. Once Jordan was THE GOAT IT NEVER changed and NEVER will. Jordan is that good.
Let that sink in.
☠️bron is so much better dude get that through ur skull
@@midmansolos1615 why u getting mad? 😂
Sounds like you can't even convince yourself. So how u plan on CONVINCING anyone else? Let that sink in
Imagine saying it will never change and expecting people to take you seriously
@@Rugerous it's called an opinion. Opinions are like assholes everyone has one. You don't get it u must b young.
@@ChadBuhl what do I not get? If you say it will never change, thats not an opinion, it's a statement. If you thought it might not ever change you would have said "I think" or "in my opinion" but like with all Jordashians, there's no reality based arguments for him being the goat they bring up. Just hysteria from old feelings "they'll never be anyone better jordansexual soundin ass"🤣
The only reason why your “very robust method” of polling 100 current NBA fans ends with LeBron in a close 2nd is that LeBron benefits from a ton of recency bias. In actuality, it’s not even close that MJ is the GOAT.
Ask people over 40 with common sense who watched MJ play and now watch James. Your answers will not be that close. I guarantee you added some 20 and under kids who don’t know basketball, and never watched MJ play.
I’m 37 but yep I watched MJ play during his 2nd 3-peat and it’s not even close between him and Lebron.
Of course they gonna pick they era
I want to ask you something. When Lebron James was playing for the Cavs in the 2009-2010 season they were first in the whole league. When Lebron left in 2010-2011 they went to the worst in the league proving Lebron was holding the team in his shoulders. The fact that one player single handedly took them to first seed then when he left they were worst in the league. Now if you look at MJ when he retired for a couple of years they won 2 less games than when MJ was there and the reason they lost the finals was because of Hakeem.
The fact that you had to say common sense makes you have doubt in your mind
@@Pxlar34they didnt even make the finals when the rockets went back to back Lol, you have no clue what your talking about
MJ no doubt
If you have a losing record in the finals and two epic finals series failures you should not even be in the conversation. PERIOD
oh c'mon. pity steph.
FACTS😅
Bro only has a losing record bc he played teams with four superstars by himself
@@lilak687 You know there is this cool thing called google, we can prove you wrong in like 2.5 seconds.
The truth is that he has had the most support and help around him than anyone. what's sad is you have been lied to and you believe it.
It's not losing, it's the way he lost. And didn't even engage in 4th quarters. If he took it on him self and missed heaps of shots at least it's leader mentality.
The three main factors for determining how good a player was to be considered a goat is how consistent you were in points or yards in a game, how much longevity you have, and less so but still importantly how many rings you have. This is why nobody bases G.O.A.T. status off passing yards or total points in NBA. by the logic that many Lebron fans are using, does this mean Matt Ryan is better than Aaron Rodgers?
two names nobody has ever heard of ig. But seriously... longevity? That is not a metric I would call important on who the best player is. Much more so and not less so how many rings you have. Then again, if we call it by how many rings you have then bill russel takes the cake.
It's a mixture of skill, championships, impact and dominance. Unlike Jordan, Lebron james never dominated a decade. He was either overshadowed by kobe in the 2000s, curry in the 2010s and I don't think he'll win any more in the 2020s.
Broooo. So Bill Russell then???? It's best player. Not best team. Not best organization. It's best individual player. Noticed you didn't have leadership in there at all. Maybe because your love was toxic at best and quit twice. Maybe?
@@williamgrierson4133MJ>Everyone else.
Cope harder.
@@youtubeisassho8834 Bron would have won more chips with the Bulls than MJ did. His son wouldn't have been smashing Pippens wife either.
Micheal Jordan is the GOAT
theres no GOAT at all, eras change constantly, game changes constantly, players can be the best of their era, but there will never be a GOAT
Facts
In a way, YES, but, looking at the body of work, the impact, and success.. We can argue as to who was greater from the greats.
So
1. Wilt
2.Mj
3.bill
4.Lebron
5.Kareem
Are a valid top 5
@@daveDickinson5983
The GOAT is Jordan and he wins every major poll by a landslide. It's subjective but the stats, eye test, accolades, clutchness and winning pretty much confirms its Jordan.
1. Kyrie Irving
2. MJ
3. Bron
4. Kareem
5. Luka
True
Dude the Kobe disrespect amongst people is so unjustified
Really? I think the opposite is true. Alot of people have him top 5 and have him over players like shaq and Duncan. I personally have Kobe at 11. all time but I understand why people have him top 10 but I don't think he's top 5 and I won't think he's over Shaq
True, Kobe is in my top 5.
You mean the Kobe glazing? As great as Kobe was so many people overrate him insanely
@@spideysense1847 duncan is overrated. David Robinson is the greatest Spur of all-time, he just spent all his best years carrying a mediocre roster with a few years of rodman. He then had that terrible leg injury which cut his prime short.
put him in duncan's shoes and he wins as many titles if not more.
In My Opinion .
KOBE is The Goat ♥️
He’s a legend
Unanswerable question? Barely. Here is how it works:
- Who's the GOAT in basketball?
- Michael Jordan
If you saw both players play, you know.
MJ DA’ GOAT
Imagine the following career for a player. Look at those accolades! Incredible career. A Hall of Famer, a top 15 player of all time really.
2 x Champion
1 x MVP
2 x Finals MVP
1 x DPOY
4 x All Defensive 1st Team
9 x Scoring Champion
3 x Steals Champion
That is the accolades difference between the GOAT and LeBron. A whole Hall of Fame/Top 15 Player of all time career between the two. That's how great Michael Jordan is.
The GOAT debate isnt a debate. The real debate should be who is actually second and is it LeBron or Magic or Kareem etc
PG: Magic/Curry, SG: MJ/Kobe, SF: Bird/LaBron, PF: Duncan/KG, C: Kareem/Shaq…. I think picking a ‘GOAT’ is silly, but that would be my top 10. Anyone who watched Magic vs Bird will know that Bird was better, Magic had the better team, so bird should be one slot above Magic. Russel, Wilt, West and Oscar R all probably belong on a top 10 list, but I didn’t see them play. Luca, Joker, Giannis, and Wemby are all awesome in today’s game…. Book is not closed for them yet.
duncan is not a top 10 player, he was fortunate to play in the best run organization of the 00s. Garnett was a better player but I don't know if he is a top 10 player either. PF is probably the weakest position in the league pound for pound.
@@scottb3034 you have to actually make a team, it’s a team sport. Each position has slightly different requirements…. PF definitely favors defense and post game. In 1v1 Shaq obliterated MJ, but Shaq isn’t in the goat conversation… I think that’s dumb. GOAT is about more than athleticism. It’s also about your contribution to your team and how well you fit in that system.
@@drachimera the great news is that many centers would qualify as PFs...many SFs too. Larry Bird and Hakeem Olajuwon are just two names and superior candidates to KG and Duncan. And PF favors shooting not post game. All the elite PFs minus Dennis rodman were great jump shooters. Not all were amazing post players or as good in the post anyway.
Also MJ obliterated Shaq and he is the goat. I don't get your point. And he was also more than athleticism. You don't win 6 titles with waning athleticism without IQ or skill.
He had more skill and at least comparable IQ to Oscar Robertson.
@@scottb3034 Agreed that Hakeem can play PF! Dude can ball! If you go a bit deeper into the top 10 PF of all time you have Kevin McHale, a dude so famous for his post game it was literally called the torcher chamber, Charles Barkley, an absolute monster and one of the worst 3 point shooters of all time, and The Mailman, Karl Malone… again not a shooter. Dirk is a PF and absolutely a shooter, but I feel that’s the exception, not the rule. Depends on the offense and the coach. Bird, my favorite player, absolutely was a basketball genius…. Many people say ‘high basketball IQ’ about players that are not that! I find people like Joker and Bird to be so much fun to watch! Those aren’t the skills values in a PF, it’s getting the buckets! If they are at the dunker spot or down low outside the paint, the PF gets the bucket! Very different skill set than elite passers and high IQ guys, but it should be respected nonetheless
@@drachimera barkley was not a good post player, especially as he aged (there's a reason the barkley back down rule exists, if it did when he played he would score nothing out of the post because he needed that time). As for one of the worst 3 pt shooters ever...idk He shot 30% in 93 as a PF back when neither PF nor the league shot much from there. And is 26% over his career. Not good but far from horrific like say....Kareem who made one his entire career. As for Karl...he was absolutely a shooter as well. You seem to be conflating shooter with 3 pt shooting... That isn't the case. Barkley and Malone were lethal from 15-18 feet. Malone actually started to become to reliant on the lethality and it killed him in his finals appearances. Dirk is definitely a shooter as you said. Perkins out of UNC was actually a good stretch PF from the time too. He was Horry before Horry. Shot 45% for Seattle from 3 in 93 and 40% for Indiana at 38 years old in 2000! Shawn Kemp was an underrated shooter. The list can go on. Charles Oakley could jump shoot, Horace Grant too...
There were great post players...but most of them played Center back then not PF. The PF were one of 3 types: Defensive, glass cleaner & put back or a jump shooter that hit from mid range. The rarities were the guys outside those typings.
Out of the top 10 duncan and mchale are probably the two most true post players but duncan had a patented face up jumper he bounced off the glass frequently. Those two are also the least athletic and post player is not an athletic style.
Still think if we are supposed to be making a top 10 and it has to be a viable roster Hakeem and Bird are still the best options at PF, at least if the idea is that Duncan and KG would be there if they weren't. Bird is smart enough to play 4 and still make it work since he did in Boston anyway.
There still no debate Jordan is the goat 🐐
The fact that ppl decided 10 years ago lets you know some minds will never be changed
FACT. AND IT IS NOT EVEN UP FOR DEBATE OR DISCUSSION 😅
Ong
Lol my opinion , there’s no 1 goat . There’s tiers for me . There’s about 10 guys I would consider the “goats” . (Bron Jordan Kobe etc. )
After that I’d rank about 50 players for all time greats (Chris Paul , Kevin Durant , Karl Malone etc.)
Then about 150-200 players I would rank as all stars . ( Paul George , , Blake griffin Amare stoudamire )
Then I’d rank people as just consistent starters ( mikal bridges , luol deng , tayshaun prince etc. )
After that you’re just cool role player to be forgotten in the future lol
Bron is trash and not in my top 100
I agree with tiers, like the goat tier should include MJ, Kobe, Duncan, Magic, Bird, Zeke, Curry. These are players that has shown loyalty to one team (because bball is a team sport) and not jump from one team to others, won multiple chips, made their team a dynasty. And there is a tier below the goats, that include superstars but have antics attached like LeBron, KD, Kawhi. LeBron is known for flops, excuses, memes, he should not be in the goat tier. Dont let the media fool you.
@@ckingtruthyou just made your opinions irrelevant for the rest of your lifetime. Congrats
The ONLY reason this one was even close is because it was made up of predominately younger audience. Most of them have never seen MJ play back in his era. That, plus recency bias.
This is also obvious by how Wilt and Russell are ranked lower than they usually in rankings and where they should be ranked.
If people saw both MJ and Lebron in their careers, the vast majority of them would easily pick MJ. It's not actually that close.
I hope in our lifetime we will see another player dominate his era like MJ did and win at least 6 championships to make a REAL debate for the GOAT, rather than fall short in pretty much everything and ride the hype of recency bias.
This is the most Old head comment ever, You can make an argument for both, all people mention are accolades and Scoring, scoring is debatable, all Mj has is Accolades
@@Comicedits39
I'll give a longer response.
Actually, the debate is pretty simple and I wouldn't say you can make an argument for both when you look into it deeply (like I have) unless you somehow value 1 category over everything else combined.
The only thing Lebron has over Jordan is his fantastic longevity and everything that comes with playing more seasons like:
- total accrued statistics
- more total NBA and all star selections
- higher analytics like WS and VORP
Basically, these are ALL cumulative and are a result of playing more games/seasons in the NBA.
But let's compare them more apples to apples in terms of per game statistics. This can be done multiple ways.
In the traditional stats it's basically a wash since Jordan is better at ppg, bpg, spg, less tpg, and higher ft%. Lebron apg, rpg, higher fg% and 3p%
However, some positions on the court are naturally better or worse at accruing certain statistics. If you compare them in their respective positions, using stat muse and comparing Jordan vs other NBA players who played 400+ games as SGs, and Lebron vs other SFs, here is how they rank:
Jordan
ppg 1st
apg 6th
rpg 3rd
bpg 1st
spg 2nd
fg% 2nd
tpg: 13th
Lebron
ppg 2nd
apg 1st
rbg 13th
bpg 20th
fg% 8th
tpg: 1st
Surpsingly, Lebron is ONLY better as a passer in their respective positions. Jordan ranks higher in scoring, rebounding, blocks, steals, field goal %, and turns the ball less. In other words, this shows Jordan was a better and more complete SG than Lebron as a SF.
Per game analytics? Again Jordan wins and leads in all the ones that are widely used like PER, oBPM, dBPM, WS48, VORP adujsted pg.
Accolades? Jordan won more as a team and individually. In fact, this is not even close. It's almost two times more (35 vs 18) with championships, finals mvps, mvps, dpoy, 10 scoring titles, 3 steals titles, etc.
Lebron only has 1 assist title that Jordan doesn't.
Basically the difference is a resume of a player ranking in the 8-15 spot all time:
2 championships
2 finals mvps
1 mvp
1 dpoy
9 scoring titles
Their games? Lebron has far more obvious flaws in his game than Jordan, which are hard to ignore when calling him the "GOAT".
Jordan's flaws?
- shot 32.7% from 3, but players in the 80s and 90s shot around 32-33 across both decades combined. So he was average in an era where 3point shooting was a small part of the game.
That's literally it. As his positional stats show above, he was more complete than any player in history because no player was elite in every category like Jordan ranking near the very top.
Lebron flaws?
- Lebron shoots 34.8% from 3, but that's actually below the average in his era (35.8%) where the 3 point shot is a massive part of the game.
- Lebron shoots 37% outside 3 feet
- Lebron shoots 38-39% from mid range
- FT%? 73%
(I know Lebron is an amazing finisher at the rim, but how can the goat be a BELOW average shooter almost everywhere other than dunks, layups, etc?)
- Turning the ball over at a very high rate
- Being an inconsistent defender. Sometimes, even resting on defense.
To conclude, Lebron has the longevity, which prop up everything cumulative for him. Jordan won more as a team and individually, had a higher peak, was better statistically per game and more complete, and had far less weaknesses than Lebron.
I think it's pretty obvious that for Lebron to be ahead of Jordan, he needs to be actually AHEAD in more categories, which he isn't. Not only that, but he's behind.
Like I said, recency bias is what is making this closer than it is in reality.
@universalmind3963 well said. I'll also add that Jordan not only won more but also did in...
less time
...While playing more 50+ Win teams
...And had a better overall record against those 50+ W teams
...all while playing with less overall all stars when on the same team (only Pippen 6 times vs Lebron's 15 all star teammates)
This debate is a fucking joke.
@@universalmind3963 here’s where I comment, Lebron Is arguably more clutch then Jordan, yes I said it, numbers dont tell the whole story,
If you look at their playoff statistics :
Jordan Advanced LeBron
28.6 Player Efficiency 27.9
24.7 Value Over Replacement 36.1
11.1 Box Plus/Minus 10.0
39.8 Win Shares 58.7
56.8. True Shooting % 58.4
35.6 Usage % 31.7
Another argument you can make for Lebron is the Comp he has faced, so first let’s go over the teams he has faced, The San Antonio Spurs and the Kd Warriors,
I’ll start with the Kd Warriors, Which is arguably the greatest team in nba history, A team Consisting of A Prime Kevin Durant, A Prime Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Draymond Green, The Warriors that season were 1st in offensive rating, 1st in defensive rating, and had 60.7 TS, and on top of that their 5 starters all could score 30+ on any given night.
Also here’s the thing, Michael Jordan is not the greatest player of all time, Michael Jordan May be the greatest SYSTEM player of all time, when you look at a team sport, greatness can carry you to win. But I remember Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Kobe and Shaq losing in a finals against the Detroit pistons, who the only hall of famer on the whole team was their center who didn’t even score, because scoring is sooo fucking important right?
Wrong, Defense wins Championships, Rebounding wins championships, Jordan when he didn’t have an elite Defender/ Rebounder at the power forward, not only does he not go to the finals, he don’t even compete.
People Love to throw Horace grant under bus, “oh was just a role player” grant is 18th all time in offensive rebounds, that means that in the history of basketball, 20 dudes can’t rebound better than grant, Michael Jordan had THAT dude on his team, with Scottie pippen and Phil Jackson’s Triangle Offense, he didn’t anything without Scottie or Horace grant, and you’ll probably say “well he won without Horace grant when they lost Horace grant, Horace went to the Orlando Magic, you know who Jordan lost that year? The ORLANDO MAGIC, The Magic Went to the Finals, but then the next season Jordan went and they got Dennis Rodman, who has 8 all defensive teams twice as many as Horace grant,and two defensive player of the years and is 5TH all time in offensive rebounds, they just took one piece and plugged it in with something better, and when Jordan lost that year, the Magic went to the finals and got swept by the rockets, the team that the rockets beat to go to the finals was who? The San Antonio spurs, who was on that team you ask? Dennis Rodman, Rodman and grant went further than Mj, that’s how valuable defense and rebounding is, you know who was the real best player at that time?
A player that you can get and build around and it really pans out to be a winning player? Hakeem Olajuwon, Hakeem came in the league the same year, while Jordan was getting swept in 86, Hakeem went to a worse team in the rockets, and went to the finals against Larry bird and the Celtics, you know the person Jordan has never beaten, hakeem took them to 6 games, leading his team in points, rebounds,steals and blocks.
And then when Jordan decided to quit, Hakeem then won 2 more rings, leading his team in points, rebounds, steals and blocks, who was the guy who was really driving his team to success? He didn’t even have the same type of guys in all his team winning, that’s who you determine what player is responsible for a teams success.
Jordan has had one of the best rebounding and defensive power forwards of all time, and the greatest coach of all time. And he dished off to pacsun to drain the shot and win the title, pacsun shot over 50% from the field while with the bulls, it helps when your getting doubled you can kick to a guy who shoots over 50%, but he didn’t have pacsun the whole time tho, he had Steve Kurr
Who shoots over 50% from the field, and hit the game winning shot, it’s the same recipe every time he doesn’t have one of those. If he doesn’t have one of those, name a time he won, name a time he got close, name a time he was competitive, you can’t, because he’s not a winner forreal, he was apart of a winning formula, good for him, nice shoes 🤣, Lebron has shown you, making the western conference finals, with a Dude who’s NEVER coached, cough cough darvin ham, and it was his first year head coaching, all Lebron does is DRAG people to where they need to go, way more then a player should, that’s what the best player does , it’s what you can do with whatever parts that makes you great, only winning one way your whole career is greatness? Uh no thank you, if I can only win when I have all the right pieces, I’m not a fucking winner, you’re the best piece of a winning formula, this isn’t even a debate, there’s no way you can come to the conclusion that Mj is really the reason why they are 6-0 in titles, but you’re welcome to try.
@@Comicedits39
We have data from stathead (won't let me paste links) that literally prove that Jordan is much more clutch than Lebron (and it's not close)
The situation: 5 seconds left in the game in the 4th quarter and the team needs to score to tie or win the game - the most obvious clutch situation there is.
Lebron has a terrible 17% field goal % in this situation. 17%! That is so atrocious in the clutch. It's the opposite of "clutch".
The stats only go back to 1997 so Jordan was at the very end of his career after already declining and STILL scored in the same situation so much higher with 45%
17% vs 45% isn't even close. Jordan is by far more clutch and always had a reputation (rightfully so) of being THE clutch player.
Moreover, Lebron has giant black marks of him choking in the playoffs like in 2011 in the 4th quarters. Jordan would never.
Yes, I can easily say Jordan had by far the most impact on those 6 winning championships on those Bulls teams because we literally have ways to MEASURE impact. In all the analytics that measure impact, Jordan's was the highest on that bulls team. Not to mention, Jordan was by the best player in ALL of the play off series in those 6 championships runs. Take out Jordan out of that team and the Bulls win ZERO championships. Replace many other players on the Bulls with other decent players, and the Bulls win championships anyway in the 90s. Why? Jordan. It's pretty damn simple and arguing that they won cause of Grant is fucking crazy.
And guess what, Jordan also has a higher measured impact per game on those same impact measuring analytics than Lebron in the playoffs.
Going by your logic, if defense has the highest impact on winning championships, then lol Jordan has higher impact on winning than Lebron since Jordan was a better and more consistent defender in his career. Also, a better rebounder as a SG than Lebron as a SF, like I provided statistical evidence in my previous post.
Also, You showed me some playoff statistics, but I already mentioned in my previous post that Win Shares (WS) and Value Over Replacement (VORP) are CUMULATIVE stats. The only reason they are higher for Lebron is because of Lebron playing total MORE GAMES than Jordan. That's an argument for longevity, which again, I already covered in my previous post. When adjusted per game, Jordan comes on top. Jordan wins in almost everything that takes out the longevity argument.
Karl Malone has a higher career Win Shares in his career than Jordan. So, does that mean Karl Malone was better? Of course not. It shows Malone played MORE TOTAL GAMES than Jordan. Just like Lebron did.
You say "Michael Jordan is not the greatest player of all time". Well if Jordan isn't, then Lebron sure as hell DEFINITELY isn't either because the data and accolades says Jordan is better than Lebron on pretty much everything other than Longevity. So yeah, I'm gonna go ahead with the evidence and hard data.
I'm not even going to address further the paragraph after paragraph of (incorrect) excuses you wrote on why MJ won more because here is the thing, I compared both MJ and Lebron DIRECTLY, head to head, game to game with data. Data is objective and data has no bias. You conveniently ignored all of that and proceeded to just giving me your opinion (which is purely subjective) based on nothing but your "belief" on how somehow Jordan won more cause of players like Grant (I mean, come on now)
It's a common theme among Lebron fans, they start attacking eras, teammates, give a bunch of excuses etc. Why? Because Lebron cannot compete resume to resume, data to data vs MJ. They gotta find other ways.
If you want to talk about teammates and competition, again the evidence tells a different story.
- Jordan in his entire career played with only ONE all start teammate on the same team within the same season (Pippen)
Lebron played with SIX all star teammates (AD, Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, Allen,)
- Jordan faced more 50+ W teams in the playoffs than Lebron (on average)
- Jordan beat those 50+ W teams 73% of the time in the playoffs while Lebron only beat 50+ W teams 57% of the time (while having more all stars on his teams)
To sum it up: Jordan had less top talent in the league on his team than Lebron, Jordan played higher win teams, and beat them more often.
Bron and MJ the two best to ever do it
Yep
Cap 🧢 on LeBron
As a pacers fan I can confirm McConnell and Turner are the new Shaq and Kobe
40k 11k 11k says Lebron is the Goat
The goat of turnovers and not trying on defense that is
Counting stats 🥱
@@JohnGoetzGaming
Only player n history
Wasn’t alive in 1984 to go off a silly eye test… Phil took his system and won 5 more rings without Mike ….
No Coach he played for has won without Lebron.
@@St._Matthew
Jackson is a great coach for sure. We saw how well his system worked without an all time great player with the Knicks. Also lebron leaves teams when it seems like they can't win champs so yeah he strip mines the coach's teams and leaves for another super team. Way to go
@@JohnGoetzGaming
Without Jordan the Bulls won 55 games ..
Without Lebron Cleveland picked 1st overall 3 times , he returns and they’re n the finals 4 straight years.. it’s not a coincidence
1. Bill Russell
2. Kareem
3. MJ
4. Magic Johnson
5. Tim Duncan
Mj will always be the goat no matter what there’s no debate
Duncan 1’ in history is blasphemy
stop it...get some help😂 mj all day long...stop with this leflop...
if lebron is so much better than jordan, why do we say who’s the next mj. there, debate over 😂
thats just dumb?
when a flashy pass first pg enters the league
we ask
is that the next magic?
shi like that
we ask mj bc hes the most iconic player oat
and its easier to have mjs skill set then brons, we can see another mj esq player (like kobe) before like another bron esq player
A lot of next brons too
@@ModernTwoThreeshow us one clip where anybody..anybody has said a player is “the next LeBron”. We’ll wait.
@@Snow88mann ua-cam.com/video/TDZgLwenPY8/v-deo.htmlsi=PaWXP4-qlcknav4V
@@Snow88manntheres a B/R report article from 2012 titled “Likeliest Candidates to Be the Next LeBron James” 👍
Honestly, to me, this shouldn't even be a debate. First of all, Lebron never even manage to three-peat, rather than three-peat TWICE. Second, the defense back than makes the defense now look like a fistfight compared to WWII. Plus, who were the good players in the 2010s and 2020s? Kevin Durant? Curry? Kobe? Yeah, who were the good players in the 1980s and 1990s? Magic Johnson, Kareem, Larry Bird, James Worthy, Isiah Thomas, Clyde Drexler, Hakeem Olajuwon, prime Shaq, Penny Hardaway, Tracy McGrady, Kobe, Iverson. The list just keeps going. The so called, "King James" stats aren't even close to MJ's stats. In 2012-13, Lebron averaged 26.8 points, 8 rebounds, 7.3 assists, 0.9 blocks and 1.7 steals per game. In 1996, MJ averaged 30.4 points, 6.6 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 2.2 steals, and 1.0 blocks per game. In 2018, Lebron averaged 27.5 points, 7.1 assists, 7.9 rebounds and 0.9 blocks per game. In 1998, Jordan averaged 29 points, 8 rebounds, 7.2 assists, and 0.8 blocks per game. These stats just prove that MJ is better, though Lebron is good as well. Jordan is also 6-0 from the finals, and each finals series never went to a game seven. Lebron is 4-10 from the finals, being swept twice. Even though He and Kyrie took the Cavs to the 2016 finals and overcame a 3-1 lead, Jordan, is still the better player. Jordan also had worse teammates. Lebron had Chris Bosh, Kyrie Irving, a prime Anthony Davis, Dwayne Wade, Kevin Love, Ray Allen, and even Shaquille O'Neal. MJ only had Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman and who? Steve Kerr? I will admit that Lebron is a more gifted and talented player, and is stronger and more athletic, but as it seems now, Jordan is still the best player to ever play the game of basketball.
7:23 recently aka (by June 3rd) there’s been this conversation about legacy in the sport of football or soccer.
And it’s being brought up because a team has a bunch of players with 6 Ucl wins, but honestly aren’t considered all time greats.
And legacy has been brought up because a certain player has like 6 Ucl medals, but another player only has 2? But everybody collectively thinks the one with 2 wins is better.
Curry may not be considered the goat of basketball, but his legacy is up there with the best. He’s up there with Jordan because of how he changed basketball forever
Kroos and Modric are undoubtedly all time greats
1 Jordan
2 Kobe
3 Kareem
4 Wilt
5 Zeljko Rebraca
Lebron isn’t a unstoppable force like many others in this argument. He is a grandpa who keeps racking up achievements with a long career.
I totally agree. It’s not like he went to the NBA finals 8 years in a row anyway 😅
@@Xenovation3334 and got stopped, keep proving my point. Jordon was his team. He made all his teammates better. Lebron has had many big names on his team and still got slaughtered.
@@-obscure- Ah, yes
2007: LeBron vs Spurs
2011: This is his only bad series
2014: Played against the Big 3 Celtics with a declining Wade and Bosh
2015: Lost because of teammate injuries
2017: Had to play against KD, Steph, Draymond, and Klay
2018: Repeat of 2017, but without Kyrie
The fact that MJ is undoubtedly the greatest basketball player ever is unquestionable!
The fact that this ridiculous GOAT debate is still on going, is just ridiculous beyond belief.
Seriously, this needs to STOP!
The one thing we can say is MJ and Bron are 1 & 2, whoever you put above out the 2 is your opinion. Both have shouts in different areas... Anyone who uses rings in a team sport for an individual debate is stupid aswell.
Yep
I love how you toss in random ass players from to time throughout the video like Jameer Nelson and Glen Davis 😂😂😂
Labron James ain't in the conversation
I mean labrick
Damn
He indeed is
@@ModernTwoThree ppl do not know ball lbj is so close to being better then mj
Your right, Lecry baby is not even in the top ten for me tbh
The people who say MJ generally say Lebron isn’t even close. The people that say Lebron don’t say that about MJ. This tells me it’s MJ. I actually agree pretty closely with the rankings on this list though. Good job.
wdym no bias?😂
5:38
Everyone: nuggets vs Celtics final
Anthony Edwards: Nuh uhh
Wrong about players having a second job in the 60s. Very few did. In the early 50s, it was far more common, but by the 60s almost anyone in the NBA could make a comfortable living just by playing in the league. In 1960 the average NBA salary was 15k which equates to 150k today.
Is it Michael Jordan? Is it LeBron James? It’s Dwayne Wade.
well made video and how u judged this overall good stuff
The GOAT himself said only 1 player could beat him 1 on 1....So ill take THAT guy as my GOAT.
Which was his brother, Larry Jordan - was better than MJ (stated by the GOAT himself) in every way, just didnt become known and 'great' like MJ due to his height. He was 5'9. MJ himself said that he wouldve been known as 'Larry Jordans brother' if his brothrt were to play in the NBA
1. Michael Jordan, 2. Magic Johnson, 3. Kobe Bryant, 4. LeBron James, and 5 Kareem Abdul Jabar.
This is the most accurate list I have seen, the 100 ball watchers was the way to go
I can see a debate about Lebron being #2, but not Jordon v LeBron. I just found out Jordan ran a 4.3 40. His early years were insane. Seeing the highlights, he was so incredibly fast. I just remember his jumping, but no one could guard him because he just run to wherever he wanted to shoot from and shoot. Year 3, iirc, he played every minute of every game. And he played with Jordan-like intensity.
at heart true nba fans all know lebron is the best nba player of all time and its not a question or a debate
Aw that’s cute
@@jwinstons3352 statistics show his better my son
@@wakeuplucid3758 no, all stats show he's worse. only longevity stats say he's better than MJ
@@XboxOnePwns not sure what stats you are looking at but clearly you havent done your homework
Who says you can just speak for everyone
I think what factors in a lot is what era you grew up in. For example, someone who grew up in 60s would say Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West would be in. 70s they’d say Kareem, Pete Maravich, Bob Lanier, Bob McAdoo (73-78 definitely). 80s onwards though there’s so many great names who you’d consider in that top 5 (Bird, Bryant, Ewing, M Malone, C Maline, M Johnson, T Duncan, Lebron, Curry, Nowitski, Shaq, Barkley and so on) But ask most people of any era who would be at the top of the list as greatest, 99/100 it’d be MJ. End of Discussion.
I feel like it should always be based on talent, talent played, and eras. When it comes to the late 80s to the late 90s.. nobody is touching MJ. When it comes to the late LATE 90s to the early 2000s, I don’t think anyone touches Kobe. From 2008 up to now, I don’t think anyone, at least qualified to be anywhere near the goat debate, touches LeBron. All goats of their respective eras but.. you gotta look at everything that went down IN those eras to come to the full story of it.
Fair
Why not curry leaves u wondering
@@RoyalMorris-t9x He changed the game forever. I feel like that’s a massive thing to throw on his resume but that doesn’t make him a goat caliber player. He’s the reason the game is what it is now, but I wouldn’t say having a game that transforms the entire league around you makes you the greatest of all time. It just makes you a REAL generational talent.
@@vise_atoxity8083 that's why he never calls himself the goat mj has respect and spoke on the goat and that's nothing u need to worry about if u really are a goat it will show people Will say ur name because of the excellent he brings and willing to score every single point lock u down shoot that 3 dunk finesse man lifer
@@RoyalMorris-t9x Bro I’m not gonna lie I don’t even know what that’s talking about. MJ or Curry? And if it’s MJ, what the hell was the point in bringing up Curry?
The goat debate will never end, not everyone will agree who the goat really is
I've been watching basketball since 2000, this is my top 11 of players I've watched:
1 Kobe Bryant
2 Shaquille O'Neal
3 Stephen Curry
4 Tim Duncan
5 Lebron James
6 Kevin Garnett
7 Kevin Durant
8 Nikola Jokic
9 Giannis Antetokounmpo
10 Dirk Nowitzki
11 Dwyane Wade
Lebron is *not* top 5 💀
Maybe not even top ten.
@@dennisjohnson1709agreed.
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Bird
4. Magic
5. Kobe
6. Tim Duncan
7. Hakeem
8. Jerry West
9. Wilt Chamberlain
10. Bill russell
That’s my top 10. Lebron isn’t even in my top 15 probably
This shouldn't still be a debate. If you could only pick one going into the NBA finals, all things else equal, who you picking? Im taking MJ every time.
1. Jordan
2. Lebron and Kobe
4. Kareem
5. Wilt
Lebron is the goat, there was no debate
A real one says Jordan when shooting a paper basket. Shaq when walking under anything hangable.
2012, 2016 Lebron was one of the greatest display of pure talent if not whole history of NBA. Imagine being able to put your team on your back and deliver when it mattered the most.
You are young.
@@damasame and you’re old, yo idols be old and won’t fare in this current league players. Bet Jordan would be dropping 15 pts avg in this current league.
The GOAT debate is just stupid at this point. It’s like people just focus solely on accolades and not how good a player actually was/is on the court. You can look up some of the old games and it shows which players were truly great at basketball and ahead of their time the “GOAT” debate is not even who’s the greatest of all time anymore it’s the greatest of accomplishments tallying🤦🏽♂️
Jordan 1984 rookie year nba all star sweep performance in his first professional appearance proves who is best ever. Still till this day no one has ever seen anyone dominate the way he dominated against ALL the professional All-Stars in the league. The elevation of his game is an elevation in a physical presence looking down on the NBA from in the air no one will ever have his view from that place ever.
putting curry at 11 is a crime🤦♂️
LeBron James' legacy is undeniably impressive, but it’s time to critically examine the cracks in the facade that his supporters often overlook. While he’s earned accolades and respect as one of the game’s greatest, his journey to success has been marred by decisions that raise serious questions about his competitive spirit and work ethic.
LeBron’s first stint in Cleveland is a prime example of his inability to rise to the challenge when the going got tough. Frustrated by his inability to deliver a championship, he chose to leave rather than stay and build a winning team. In stark contrast, Michael Jordan, who faced years of frustration with the Chicago Bulls, never considered abandoning his team. Instead, he stayed, pushed through adversity, and elevated his teammates to a level they didn't even know they could reach, leading them to six NBA championships. That’s the kind of perseverance and leadership that defines true greatness-not hopping from city to city in search of an easier path to glory.
LeBron’s decision to form a superteam in Miami by aligning himself with fellow NBA elites Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh was a clear indication that he wasn’t willing to do the hard work necessary to win on his own terms. Jordan didn’t call up Magic Johnson or Larry Bird to create a superteam when the Bulls were struggling. He fought through the challenges, and by doing so, he redefined what it means to be a champion. LeBron, on the other hand, took the easy way out, and for that, he lost the respect of many purists of the game.
The 2019-2020 season with the Los Angeles Lakers further highlights the hollow nature of LeBron’s achievements. That year, the season was interrupted by the COVID-19 pandemic, leading to a shortened and highly irregular “bubble” season. Teams were scrambling to fill their rosters with players from retirement and the G-League just to compete. The Lakers may have emerged as champions, but the circumstances surrounding that victory are far from convincing. Can we genuinely consider this a true championship, or was it just a fortunate outcome of an unprecedented situation? For many, this was not a legitimate title, and it certainly feels like it will be LeBron’s last.
Since that 2020 “bubble” championship, the Lakers have been a team packed with talent, yet their results have been disappointing, to say the least. With a roster that included the likes of Russell Westbrook, Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard, Anthony Davis, and a host of other NBA stars, the Lakers should have been unstoppable. But they’ve struggled to even make the playoffs consistently, let alone win another championship. Can you imagine what Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan would have done with this level of talent? Rings on their toes, indeed.
The ongoing failure of the Lakers, despite their star-studded lineup, tells you everything you need to know about LeBron James. He’s been crowned “The King,” but the truth is, he doesn’t live up to the title. Real kings don’t run away when things get tough. They don’t rely on forming alliances with other superstars to secure victories. They lead their teams through adversity, inspire their teammates, and leave a legacy built on hard work and unwavering commitment.
In the end, LeBron’s career will be remembered for its achievements, but it will also be marked by missed opportunities and questionable decisions. He’s a great player, no doubt, but the greatness we’ve seen from the likes of Jordan and Kobe is of a different caliber. LeBron James will be associated with wearing the crown, but history will remember that it never quite fit.
Wilt Chamberlain averaged 40 ppg for 515 consecutive games. Rank #2 in that category goes to Elgin Baylor with 33 consecutivee games scoring 40 ppg average. Wilt also grabbed 25 rebounds per game average for those 515 games. It's not even close...
1.mj
2.lebon
3.kobe🕊️🕊️
4.wilt
5. Stephen Wardell curry💦
Damnnn
Before really getting into this video, just from hearing the narrator’s voice, i find it difficult to trust anything someone says when they didn’t watch the nba in the 90s.
Ive come to realize people that watched in the 90s (or even before that) and still watch today have the best perspective when it comes to this conversation. I’m not saying what they say is gospel, but you atleast take what they say with a grain of salt. Someone who started watching in the mid 2000s or even later just don’t have the perspective to take anything they say seriously, or even with a grain of salt