"The biggest brownest barrels you have ever seen": Nias Super Swell Event Behind The Scenes

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  • Опубліковано 1 січ 2025
  • Marty Paradisis, Matt Bromley, Riley Laing and Ian Walsh talk about the swell of the century at Nias.

КОМЕНТАРІ • 295

  • @mateogarcia7695
    @mateogarcia7695 4 роки тому +119

    Anyone here from Nate Florence's video on this?

    • @alfredonski
      @alfredonski 4 роки тому +2

      Solid find. thanks to Nate!

    • @joegibbs2508
      @joegibbs2508 4 роки тому +2

      Woah, yep Nias the dream wave turns into a Nightmare!

    • @tepitokura
      @tepitokura 4 роки тому +2

      Yes

    • @langsfordmusicltd283
      @langsfordmusicltd283 4 роки тому +1

      yep...just watched Nates vid

    • @upsidedahead
      @upsidedahead 4 роки тому

      Yeah man... I posted the link in comments section after searching up Nate's Matt Bromley reference

  • @paulfenn5060
    @paulfenn5060 4 роки тому +57

    Anyone still alive to remember that day in '89 when it got so big it broke across the entirety of Lagundri Bay? I was in Cimaja (a Toronto guy trying to learn how to surf at 31) when that stuff first walloped that southern part of the archipelago. A few of us flew to Nias a day later and arrived in Lagundri the day after that big day. It was still huge. Blond curly-haired Aussie named Johnno lived there, renting and fixing boards. Told me he'd never been so afraid on the water. Houses taken out to sea, 12 broken boards in one day, locals thinking end times thoughts. I stayed for a month, trying/failing to learn. I learned how not to drown was about all.

    • @SenorMartinos
      @SenorMartinos 2 роки тому +5

      I met Johnno in 2009, west oz guy, great barrel rider.

    • @paulfenn5060
      @paulfenn5060 2 роки тому +6

      @@SenorMartinos That'd be him all right.

    • @bubbabigmin
      @bubbabigmin 2 роки тому +8

      This swell was bigger! The old fisherman said it was the biggest they had ever seen in their lives, there were sets that closed out the bay on a reef that nobody had ever seen break before! I was there it was insanity at its peak.

    • @MiguelFlores-fs7qv
      @MiguelFlores-fs7qv 2 роки тому +11

      Learning how to not drown in the most important part!

    • @supremesammm912
      @supremesammm912 2 роки тому

      Can you be honest with me ? Do you think your a good person? Yes ? How many lies have you told in your life, have you stolen something, even if it’s little ? Have you ever used Gods name in vain ? Jesus said whoever looks at a women to lust for her has committed adultery with her in his heart, have you look with lust? I’m sure we have broken these commandments. So by your own admission via your conscious you have admitted to being a lying thieving blasphemous adulterer at heart do you still think your a good person ? You have to stand before God on judgment day, now if He judges you by those Ten Commandments do you think you’ll be innocent or guilty? Sin is so serious to God that He gives us capital punishment, death for our sins. The Bible says for the wages of sin is death, we earn death because we sin against God. But God provided a way out of hell. God "Jesus" in the flesh lived a perfect sinless life and paid our fine we owed God from our sins by suffering and dying on the
      cross. And on the third day He rose from the grave and defeated death, it was impossible that death could hold Him. And if you want to be saved you must repent of all your sins "which means turn from them"and not live a hypocritical life which means you say, I'm a Christian but still lie, steal and fornicate, and you must trust alone in Jesus not in good works or you being a good person and the Bible says God will give you everlasting life. “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” ‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:9 . Love you bro, please think about your eternity. The Bible says the day of salvation is today so please leave your sin and turn to God.

  • @davidhbrown9767
    @davidhbrown9767 2 роки тому +8

    I'm a landlocked Kentuckian but I know what it means to be awed. Especially concerning something people know about but then see something new. That's me with lightning(s) and storm(s). I have seen some raw energy pull the heads of trees to one side, hold it there until the trunk just came apart like it was hit by a giant log splitter. NATURE! So very awesome. 🙂

  • @kylewattssurfing3266
    @kylewattssurfing3266 4 роки тому +9

    Very amazing waves and very amazing interviews and thank you for sharing!

  • @michaelellingson9282
    @michaelellingson9282 4 роки тому +4

    Cool video of gnarly Nias ! ... never been there, but I've watched many too big to surf but perfect days all over California .. when all you can do is just stand there in awe

  • @mrquizical
    @mrquizical 4 роки тому +4

    The waves spoke for themselves, The Brave, spoke for themselves. We got to watch something ultra intense. Thank You.

    • @steveperreira5850
      @steveperreira5850 2 роки тому

      Definitely very brave boys. I enjoyed watching it immensely

  • @fltmed
    @fltmed 4 роки тому +6

    @ 6:02 Look at the cloud break on the outside!! Holy Crap!

  • @ReinLangeveld
    @ReinLangeveld 4 роки тому +2

    Beautiful, hands down and up and down again tot that. I wish you guys can bring us deeper with the pack through more video angles of this. Beautiful

  • @Phuture33
    @Phuture33 4 роки тому +132

    I feel like we should really talk about WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED WITH THAT BOAT!?!?! 😱😱😱

    • @MrSkyliner84
      @MrSkyliner84 4 роки тому +6

      I think I read that the boat owner was away on holiday so didn't move it, here is an account from the time www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.surfer.com/videos/large-boat-goes-over-falls-nias/&ved=2ahUKEwjC2seHoN7oAhXRh1wKHWNpATIQFjAIegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3AMRrMy4Wdw-XAVP-_0M1t&cshid=1586535453716

    • @Sidetrackification
      @Sidetrackification 4 роки тому +5

      Glad nobody was on it

    • @Ziggysdankgenetics
      @Ziggysdankgenetics 4 роки тому +4

      That’s insane! 6 foot thick edges 😳😳 that’s some serious power

    • @aeph9840
      @aeph9840 4 роки тому +15

      Pretty sure that is the boat owned by Key Hole Surf Camp. So sad because I know the owner invested a lot into setting up a surf charter boat and he was so proud of it when I spoke to him a few years ago.

    • @dalbrecht
      @dalbrecht 2 роки тому +4

      I really wonder how did the boat end up there in the first place?

  • @AlexGreenberg1
    @AlexGreenberg1 4 роки тому +13

    5:50 was unreal!!!

  • @drvonnostrum2671
    @drvonnostrum2671 4 роки тому +7

    Nathan Florence's vlog about that day is pretty epic. A guy that charges anything, said they wanted nothing to do with the big sets. The wave that flipped the boat he said, was one of the smaller insiders. Amazing energy in the swell that day, wow.

    • @christopherliston2371
      @christopherliston2371 2 роки тому

      Thanks! Did anyone survive the Boat flip?

    • @drvonnostrum2671
      @drvonnostrum2671 2 роки тому

      @@christopherliston2371 as i recall there was no one on the boat, it was on anchor

    • @christopherliston2371
      @christopherliston2371 2 роки тому

      @@drvonnostrum2671 thanks. That explains a lot, although crazy day to anchor....LOL, Cheers!

    • @Tew730
      @Tew730 Рік тому

      @@drvonnostrum2671 it wasnt anchored for long and no the boat did not survive i guess
      how are the waves doubling up? I cant believe anyone made it out of the barrels just to get in the lineup you gotta be thinking Im so small

  • @oldschoolwaverider
    @oldschoolwaverider 2 роки тому +3

    Hard to believe anyone could make it out of the waves that. . . they made it out of! . . .UNREAL!

  • @cloudsrain8753
    @cloudsrain8753 4 роки тому +2

    wow, incredible waves and tube riding.......really mother nature hitting it good. nice, ty

  • @guest3224487
    @guest3224487 4 роки тому +11

    2:24 boat driver be like: "relax guys i had it all under control, never in doubt"

    • @xavierjansenopdehaar4571
      @xavierjansenopdehaar4571 4 роки тому +3

      that same boat didn't have it under control at 3:04 which is probable his worst wipeout ever
      the video gets me psyched though

  • @lorenzo6mm
    @lorenzo6mm 4 роки тому +3

    I Still remember the (30 years ago) the
    Coke commercial with
    Jodie Cooper in a Nias massive barrel.

  • @LurgsHowToGuides
    @LurgsHowToGuides 4 роки тому +2

    Jeeze, that take off is vertical straight down, that's commitment if you get that wrong!

  • @rickylawrence3171
    @rickylawrence3171 Рік тому +2

    4:42. Was hoping Letterman would interview a few peeps.
    Excellent jokes aside. I love this. Would never ride that shit. I dont even know if Im even brave enough to watch from the land. But I wanted to be there because despite their ability they seemed the most down to earth bunch of people you could ever hang with. Id find a job amongst this crew for myself. Board waxxer or something… landbased only.

  • @K3Flyguy
    @K3Flyguy 2 роки тому +1

    3:04 so this is how they make toothpicks!!!! I never knew how they did that! I hope the boat people were on the beach on lunch break when that happened.

  • @benno8561
    @benno8561 4 роки тому +10

    I like how the video just moved on from the boat getting smashed lol, isn't anyone curious to know what happened to the people on board if there were any?

    • @brock1157
      @brock1157 4 роки тому +4

      Bendejo was thinking the exact same thing! If anyone was still onboard they would have been sent on the most horrific washing machine experience of their life hopefully they survived!

    • @OrsunVZ
      @OrsunVZ 4 роки тому +2

      @@brock1157 Man I'd love to hear from the guy driving that boat - hopefully he still has the ability to talk without drooling on himself... that was scary.

    • @pierretripon6218
      @pierretripon6218 4 роки тому +8

      @@OrsunVZ boat was empty. Nathan Florence explains it in his video. The anchor rope broke so the boat was dragged in the middle of crashing waves.

    • @OrsunVZ
      @OrsunVZ 4 роки тому +1

      @@pierretripon6218 thanks.

    • @redeyestones3738
      @redeyestones3738 4 роки тому

      If there was anyone on that boat, it wouldn't have been there. It got broken from its mooring

  • @ross2142
    @ross2142 4 роки тому +27

    Probably because of “DEATH “ the guys let those sets go by.

  • @vidpromjm
    @vidpromjm 2 роки тому +3

    Can see why a bit of caution might be in order, it's a pretty sketchy place to get injured, be a long uncomfortable trip to any decent ER facility;(

  • @jeremywatt3800
    @jeremywatt3800 2 роки тому +1

    seeing the smoke rising from the village gives me goosebumps... when we bounced in there (minivan trip from hell, ~8hrs??) in '98 2 policemen had been burnt in stacks of tyres the day before... beaut break but!

  • @macka5515
    @macka5515 2 роки тому +2

    The outer reef looks even more insane!

  • @hannotn
    @hannotn 2 роки тому +10

    Must have been a few guys in some of those barrels thinking some doom-laden thoughts as they saw the eye of the exit whirling away down the line, getting further and further out of reach... eek!

    • @Teufel_Resen
      @Teufel_Resen 2 роки тому

      Nah. It’s days like this and the training involved that separates the the many you speak of and the few that were out, catching, and pulling in or taking a beating.

    • @laynekrause4479
      @laynekrause4479 2 роки тому

      Excellent use of doom-laden

    • @killbill5486
      @killbill5486 Рік тому

      @@Teufel_Resen oh please...🙄

    • @Teufel_Resen
      @Teufel_Resen Рік тому

      @@killbill5486 😂😂 wait my bad, I thought he was referring to a 2ft shorebreak at Huntington Beach in April where’d you’d only find what I described. There definitely has to be a spring break Wisconsin tourist or 4 out there trying to catch his first wave at Nias on a macking swell 😜😂😎🤙

    • @killbill5486
      @killbill5486 Рік тому

      @@Teufel_Resen I can just spot a poser when I see one.

  • @olivierjulian2836
    @olivierjulian2836 2 роки тому +1

    If you surfed lagundry sorake beach before 2005 and the big earthquake around 8.5 + that elevated the reef about 5 feet , you have to imagine that the take off zone is very shallow now and unforgiving , at this size so much water pouring in that it's "safer" and for the brave who went for indicator at the time and made some 8 second barrel with a nasty rock on the road i can't imagine now it must end on dry reef , anyway those guys deliver big , and at this size i surfed bawa who was a deep water (around 12 feet deep at the take off at this time, less now) right point break who could handle 15 +feet like a sunset backdoor section and

  • @GregorySLamb
    @GregorySLamb 2 роки тому

    What about those Gnarlburgers breaking on the outer reefs briefly seen about 6:00 in?

  • @dantolino1093
    @dantolino1093 Рік тому +1

    I surfed this spot for 25 days in August 1985, the only Peruvian among aussies, just a few of us, it got bigger than this.

  • @maninalift
    @maninalift 2 роки тому

    3:04 the boat from the thumbnail. What was that boat doing there? Was there anyone in it? The clip is just thrown in there

  • @haydenstacpoole7987
    @haydenstacpoole7987 4 роки тому +2

    No dis for the chargers pulling into these mutants, however i feel the boat going over was the most gnarly thing on this clip. Especially if there were people on board

  • @shaylernoah1178
    @shaylernoah1178 2 роки тому

    Those double ups at 2:33 are super gnar-gnar

  • @bryancorts5389
    @bryancorts5389 2 роки тому

    Fucking 2 years ago wow, what a day that was I bet! You can just feel the adrenaline oozing from this day in paradise!

  • @pjudd2821
    @pjudd2821 4 роки тому +1

    What songs are being used in this video? Awesome music!!! Insane surf (obviously)

  • @coralgwyn-williams9933
    @coralgwyn-williams9933 2 роки тому +2

    I'm not a surfer but for me, the most amazing thing is that you guys don't kill each other smacking into each other on the waves...it's amazing...how do you miss each other?

  • @JohnSmith-js3po
    @JohnSmith-js3po 4 роки тому +2

    Big and fast waves, steep drop set your rail go for it does not get any better than that

  • @fredrit323
    @fredrit323 4 роки тому +9

    I can imagine the fun of getting hurt at a place like Nias...
    Hospital?

    • @theodoreestienne5492
      @theodoreestienne5492 4 роки тому

      You re remote there .180 miles from padang Sumatra.
      Don't get hurt there.
      But the bottom is a sea weed bed.

    • @bryan_garrick_little
      @bryan_garrick_little 4 роки тому

      @@theodoreestienne5492 ya, not a good place to get hurt at all, I saw a guy get scalped on the bottom somehow and that was at 6ft . must have been a hell ride home

    • @JSharp-gu7lv
      @JSharp-gu7lv 4 роки тому

      Getting hurt is not recommended as the nearest hospital is on Sumatra... Which happens to be an 8-12 hour ferry ride away!

    • @loveu4573
      @loveu4573 4 роки тому

      i guess tradisional medic, better way for help

    • @petewally2965
      @petewally2965 4 роки тому

      HORRIBLE STUCKN THE PLACE FOR 10 DAYS 20 YEARS AGO , STOOOD ON A STONEFISH COULDNT WALK INTENSE PAIN LIKE YOU NEVER HAD NO INTERNET THEN

  • @sublimedingo
    @sublimedingo 2 роки тому

    Insane, looks so fast and gnarly.

  • @mias50
    @mias50 2 роки тому

    What is the song at the end of the video? Starting at ~ 04:32.

  • @stevehapp
    @stevehapp 4 роки тому

    I surfed it that big in 91.
    Snapped my 7' board. Scary as. You got no idea.
    No end section, did you notice ?

  • @redeyestones3738
    @redeyestones3738 4 роки тому +2

    Faaaahhhhk... Healey's enormous steel balls, charging that beast backside
    Sheesh, bloody legend

  • @kicaupemula8212
    @kicaupemula8212 4 роки тому +1

    Nias Indonesia ??

  • @persongreg
    @persongreg 4 роки тому +3

    5:50 I'm so confused

  • @DeadLowFishing
    @DeadLowFishing 4 роки тому +2

    5:19 that outside left is like 40 feet

    • @BarbarraBay
      @BarbarraBay 4 роки тому

      The right is a sheltered wave. I was there in 1988. Awesome.

  • @ryansones1626
    @ryansones1626 4 роки тому +3

    outside at 6:00 shows us how bis it really was

  • @hc338
    @hc338 2 роки тому

    3:04 that boat got ROCKED! 😳

  • @mikewilliams1993
    @mikewilliams1993 2 роки тому

    Is that a sandy bottom or a reef break and Was anyone in that boat and did they die

  • @harukrentz435
    @harukrentz435 Рік тому

    5:42 best bit 👏👏👏👍

  • @godoggies1
    @godoggies1 Рік тому +1

    Kudos to the boat… the only one in the the lineup with the balls to try an “el rollo” take off👍

  • @-ct-celcomtechniques2566
    @-ct-celcomtechniques2566 2 роки тому

    From 2:31 Seems that this wave double-lip a lot....

  • @onelovemon1784
    @onelovemon1784 Рік тому

    Looks like those dudes are surfing at the highest speeds out of those tubes. Like a 🚀

  • @jaronsurf
    @jaronsurf Рік тому

    Love how the video just brushes past the BOAT!?!?!?

  • @someblokecalleddave1
    @someblokecalleddave1 2 роки тому

    What happened to the blokes in the boat?

  • @TwoFingerSaloute
    @TwoFingerSaloute Рік тому

    What was going on out the back at 6:03? Unrideable?

  • @dantakeoff
    @dantakeoff 4 роки тому +7

    Cant even imagine what Apocalypse and One-palm were doing that day....

  • @MrTJSmith1
    @MrTJSmith1 4 роки тому

    great video...insane waves!!!! Yeah!!!! keep Charging!!

  • @johnsurf509
    @johnsurf509 2 роки тому +1

    Wow the Indo natives can really surf!! I noticed the indo guy's were killing it!!

  • @nicvonrupp1671
    @nicvonrupp1671 4 роки тому

    so good boys

  • @tiffsaver
    @tiffsaver 2 роки тому

    Some ultimate barreling here...

  • @johnromolo
    @johnromolo 4 роки тому +1

    What the hell are those huge boats doing in the surf?

    • @romcallis
      @romcallis 4 роки тому

      That boat was empty, just got loose, surprisingly was not smashed to bits

  • @cjs5740
    @cjs5740 2 роки тому

    Thick and proportionate.
    Insane waves!
    Did i see Nath F in there at 5:18?

  • @lamtiurhia854
    @lamtiurhia854 2 роки тому

    is it on Nias Island, Indonesia?

  • @davidschlesinger5523
    @davidschlesinger5523 2 роки тому

    Thanks

  • @jazminefawcett8689
    @jazminefawcett8689 4 роки тому

    that was next level wonder what indicators was doing

  • @peterdavies5334
    @peterdavies5334 4 роки тому

    Insane. Where is this?

  • @ianrkav
    @ianrkav 2 роки тому

    Those guys that get wiped out, what do they do to survive? Curl up in a ball and hope for the best maybe?

  • @mobzilla5922
    @mobzilla5922 4 роки тому

    Is no one going to talk about how that boat just got fucking clobbered at 3:04

  • @Mudjimba23AT
    @Mudjimba23AT 2 роки тому

    Music ?

  • @olivierbolton8683
    @olivierbolton8683 4 роки тому

    Awesome can feel the power...

  • @kylewattssurfing3266
    @kylewattssurfing3266 4 роки тому

    Very very very cool music!

  • @11bravo18
    @11bravo18 Рік тому

    @ 3:05-- 60' tour boat goes over the falls and is obliterated. 😱🤦🏼‍♂️

  • @mokowaa586
    @mokowaa586 4 роки тому +4

    Off it’s head! YTFB 🤟🏽🤟🏽🤟🏽🔥🔥🔥🔥

  • @zootsootful
    @zootsootful 4 роки тому +3

    Be interesting to see a tally of injuries sustained on that day...

  • @TheMorganMonroeShow
    @TheMorganMonroeShow 2 роки тому

    Yeah,,,, that was sick. More like #OfTheEpic 🤙🏼👈🏼🍻💯🎯

  • @emilloffler1216
    @emilloffler1216 4 роки тому

    Only a 10 second maximum ride before total closeout. But the guys got very barreled here.

  • @robbphillips2845
    @robbphillips2845 4 роки тому +1

    Holy shit how was Mark Healy`s bomb? Full tilt double up Nias. Well done

  • @jeffreyhartwig4965
    @jeffreyhartwig4965 2 роки тому

    WOW! I bet it's hella loud in da tube!

  • @bobflendorg1064
    @bobflendorg1064 4 роки тому

    How many bodies were recovered?

  • @averagejoegrows
    @averagejoegrows 4 роки тому

    Why was nate saying he was scared? He literally made a drop at chopes that probably would have killed someone

    • @laion_uy
      @laion_uy 4 роки тому

      averagejoegrows hahahah thats true. That drop at Chopes is the scariest one i have ever seen. He says he’s always scared, but prob he was more scared at Nias because he didnt know the wave that well.

  • @WhiteNacho
    @WhiteNacho 4 роки тому

    I watch a lot of sick surf vids the sicker the better but this is SUPER SICK!!!!!

  • @chrisculley3756
    @chrisculley3756 Рік тому

    This was just an epic day. But the one that doubled up on that dude was just crazy. I think it was around 2:33. Crazy. RLTW 3/75

  • @tr7b410
    @tr7b410 8 місяців тому

    Totally GNAR-GNAR.

  • @jeffbauer3425
    @jeffbauer3425 4 роки тому

    Damn . And was anyone in that boat ?!

  • @surfing4theloveofit
    @surfing4theloveofit 4 роки тому +1

    Wow wish we had waves like that in Australia 🤙

  • @upsidedahead
    @upsidedahead 4 роки тому +3

    1:43 Nate be like.......

  • @A3OB-
    @A3OB- 2 роки тому

    There is no more master a craftsman at board building than Jeff Bushman.

  • @antpoo
    @antpoo 4 роки тому +1

    I would have surfed ‘indicators’ 👍👍

  • @marjanboo4196
    @marjanboo4196 6 місяців тому

    some of the biggest brown barrels iv seen was martin potter back in the day wave warriors or something

  • @bgax
    @bgax 4 роки тому

    6:03, wht is that one breaking behind them.

    • @paulfenn5060
      @paulfenn5060 4 роки тому

      That's Indicators. Only the ultra-brave even think about venturing there. Much bigger waves, but shallow water (1-2 feet depending on tide) over live coral. And coral cuts here get nasty, esp when it's dirty like this. That's liquid human turd from a river that empties into the bay.

  • @kylewattssurfing3266
    @kylewattssurfing3266 4 роки тому

    Very cool very awesome!

  • @pweter351
    @pweter351 4 роки тому +1

    Don't think these camera angles really picked up the full size. They are sucking way below sea level.
    Credit to the boys charging those take offs

  • @bryanbuulolo959
    @bryanbuulolo959 4 роки тому

    Aloha...
    Greeting from nias,come visit!
    🤙🏾

  • @cjgamer2140
    @cjgamer2140 4 роки тому

    Amazing!

  • @jeffhaase9979
    @jeffhaase9979 2 роки тому

    impressive to say the least.

  • @AlohamanIan
    @AlohamanIan 4 роки тому

    Anyone know what instrumental track is playing from 4.37 to the end?

    • @ReinLangeveld
      @ReinLangeveld 4 роки тому +1

      China shop - nightgames

    • @kalebfisher2644
      @kalebfisher2644 4 роки тому

      Nias? I tried it out on one of my first extreme ocean search frames, like pictures, or at nias like freight train A Frames!

  • @Cowicide
    @Cowicide 4 роки тому +1

    I tackled brownies and other snacks last night and was still able to muster the strength to watch this heavy surf video in the morning. Who is the real surf hero here?

  • @BaydreamR
    @BaydreamR 2 роки тому

    Heroic!

  • @marcusroca7024
    @marcusroca7024 4 роки тому +2

    So what happened? Why were the waves this big that day?
    Funny fact: the only place i have EVER "surfed" was Sorake Beach 2009.. never made it to real standind position but survived alive.. nothing makes you as humble as paddling 200-300 metres to get behind the brake when you are not used to paddling, just to see for the first time in your life over 3 meter wave form in front of you! Just a calm feeling of acceptance.
    But the waves were not quote this big when we were there.

  • @Mila-ji7lb
    @Mila-ji7lb Рік тому

    Was anybody hurt in boat that capsized in wave?

  • @upsidedahead
    @upsidedahead 4 роки тому

    Can someone please translate the last lines from Riley Laing

  • @Ibprius
    @Ibprius 4 роки тому

    Let's put this is perspective. The same guys pulling into 50 foot barrels at Jaws literally wanted no part of this day.

  • @aaronzamora6451
    @aaronzamora6451 2 роки тому

    Looked Like Patrick Swayze 6:18 Point Break came to mind