This child NEEDS the scissors/crayons/pencil/toys SOMETHING. He is trying to calm down the part of the brain that stores trauma. He's TRYING to regulate himself. That's why he's crunching up the paper. He's a bright little boy. I'm so sorry.
So the general consensus that this interviewer shouldn't be doing this. I'll never understand why police departments don't use License child psychologists. Subjecting vulnerable children to unprofessional persons is repulsive . She knows nothing concerning children. It so obvious.
I thought they DID use licensed child psychologists! I used to work on a child/adolescent (5 to 18), unit with 2 child psychologist and had seen a lot of their recorded sessions and interactions. They were wonderful. The kids had all sorts of serious problems and really opened up to them. That woman obviously had NO training with children.
It’s like she’s losing her patience with him. She probably thinks he knows what happened to his mom. I’m sure it would’ve come out by now! But she’s pushing to get answers she wants!
He can't talk about her or camping and he's suddenly calling her Susan, not Mom. He's being encouraged to forget her. He's also being told all sorts of things to confuse his memories. These sessions are too long for Charlie's age. This investigator REALLY needs to be replaced.
@@bulletsfordinner8307 yes. After the father lost the custody battle vs. the mother's parents, a social worker brought the children to visitation with their father. The social worker was supposed to go inside the house but the father prevented her from entering. She smelled a strong odor of gasoline and called 911 because she feared for the safety of the children. The father killed Charlie and his brother Brayden first and proceeded to explode the house which resulted in his dying of smoke inhalation.
How about this. He is trying to tell her that he wants to be distracted by his homework in order to tell you what he wants to say! Such terrible investigators.
He straight up told her he wants to do homework and talk but while doing homework. She couldnt give him a few mins of HER time to let him get comfortable?
I agree. The interviewer, does not understand children At all, she doesn't even notice his stutter is getting worse as his nervousness increases. She doesn't understand how to move forward, and change direction in her questioning method & technique. Getting a degree does Not make one a good child psychologist! She's awful, asking repeat questions about Mom, move forward and ask questions about things he likes, and subtly move to positive... things about his Mom to see where that leads.
Sugar Buns and give him his damn homework! This boy needs to get a break. Shame on HER. And then he was gone. What a horrible time for a child who will soon be dead at the hands of his father. I saw him in another say how hungry he is! No offer of food. This one becomes abusive in her not recognizing his need to get out of this room!.
I know, right! My question is how can they interview a minor without a family member present? The interviewer is awful at her job!!! This makes me sick.
So don't hate me but from what I've heard neither brothers nor the father are still alive (on a supervised visit the boys ran ahead and the father shut the door b4 the case worker got there, she called the police, could hear the boys crying then silence right b4 there was an explosion their father rigged, a hatchet was found next to the boys but cause of death was believed to b caused from smoke inhalation 😭) and their mother's body still hadn't been found as of 2019. Poor babies!!
@@bres5010 OMG no I did not know this! That is heartbreaking. I just came across this story today and I have watched several videos this morning..... So very sad..
@@KlassiclyRevampT Precisely! That *POS* selfishly murdered his family, and then commited suicide. I cannot imagine what those innocent little babies went thru as *Daddy Dearest* had the hatchet and flammable fuel in hand approaching them. Selfish $@#%@& shoved the CPS lady from entering the house. Does anyone know the timeline from when *Daddy Dearest* emailed his goodbyes up until CPS arrived with the boys for the supervised visit? Could one of the people he emailed goodbye had time to contact authorities?
She has no idea what she's doing. If you want a little boy to talk, you better get some toys and start playing... They'll tell you anything you want to hear while they're playing.
and never ask that direct question of where is Mommy if he has told you hes not supposed to tell. Ask him to tell you about his favorite things to do with his family, what did he like to do with his mommy. He would open up and tell you more if you let him tell it his way
Agree. I wish they had given him four people toys or dolls- one woman, one man and two boys. He might've acted out what happened with the four figures.
Exactly. I'm a teacher & her lack of concern for his emotional welfare was concerning. To build trust you need to get down to their level & use play, because playing makes it easier for them to communicate on things they find traumatic. In the UK a children's social worker would be legally required to be present,to safeguard his emotional well being.
This detective should never be allowed to interview another child. She's as overbearing as his father. No compassion, empathy or common sense. The child still has his coat on, eating lunch straight from a paper bag and nothing to drink. He told her he would talk while he did his homework not something she made up for him to do. Where the hell was her supervisor? RIP in peace poor baby.
i just finished watching another one and he told her he hadnt eaten all day, and she confirmed she understood him bye repeating it back to him and she never once asked him if he wanted something to eat, and then started talking about food.
@@tammydavis-howard220 Just came from the same interview & that was exactly what I thought she was doing when she left. I was surprised to see her come back with no food. And the fact that he was talking about flowers being "not pretty" with only some flowers being pretty, and he was happy where he slept because there were no flowers - this was obviously an important detail to him and she really should have asked at least SOME questions about. And the round red berries on the flowers? But what do I know - the last interview was the first time I've heard anything about this case. I guess I know what I'm doing for the rest of the night!
@@VioletJoy So I just watched this one; unbelievable. Does this lady have any kids?? I don't have kids and even I know where she's screwing up. Just off the top of my head, why hasn't she asked: --about "Susan" instead of "Mom?" --where he thinks the North Pole is. --any OTHER questions about "John." --When you say your brain, do you mean your Dad? --Or any of the usual tactics, like doing something to gain the kid's trust, or making him WANT to tell her, or even "correcting" her when she makes a mistake (purposely making the mistake), or lying, just like they do with adults. Such as, "It's okay, your Dad said you could talk to me, but maybe he hasn't told you yet so we don't have to. Does he always wait and tell you last? Etc. As long as you're not bullying or re-traumatizing him, it should be permitted, right? And I'm sorry, but five year olds can read you better than most adults - he KNOWS when she gets frustrated, and he KNOWS that it works to his favor. But you're right - he's so small and adorable I'm terrified to find out what happened to him. His father coached him so much I doubt he'd really know the truth by then anyway. I shudder at what that kid overheard in the aftermath...let alone the rest of it. edit: and what commenter gardener said about the scissors. Exactly right.
The stuttering is a sign of anxiety . Some toys or colouring book would have been a better strategy to relax him & get him to talk while an activity took his mind off his anxiety.
@@sarahholland2600 hes stuttering harder in this interview because she is pushing his buttons she's not there to help Charlie recover from the trauma she is there to find facts to help find the mother who may not be dead yet. She did a good job Charlie talked clearly he talked clearly his message was clear "I don't want to talk about this. my dad told me not to talk about Susan or camping" that's what he said. "she is with John, my schizophrenic Uncle who I am also not supposed to talk about per my dad. They are with the pretty flowers and the crystals in a place far away at the North Pole". that is what his dad told him to say.
@@jh-is8nq I never said that was her job. I was pointing out that children interact better (& therefore are more likely to supply useful info )when doing an activity they enjoy. If he's stuttering she should change tack as it's anxiety & she's not legally allowed to distress him to get info . I'm an ex teacher so not pulling theory or child protection law out of thin air..
@@sarahholland2600 ok, but you do realize she didn't have a lot of time to be dilly dallying around with Charlies comfort level since there were most likely several detectives waiting to be dispatched on where they might look for this freshly missing woman who may be breathing her last breath? And you will agree she wasn't being mean to Charlie so much as she was being pushy and a bit self serving in her attempt to help find a missing person and potentially save the life of Charlies mother , which in my opinion is more to Charlies benefit then helping him with his homework? Agreed?
There is another video of this woman interviewing him the day after his Mother went missing where he tells her he is hungry and that he did not have breakfast or lunch. She replies with well, maybe we can get you something to eat after you talk to me! Broke my heart...
She is horrible. She is not trying in the least to make him comfortable. She is getting impatient and she is not doing a good job getting anything from him because she just wants him to answer her questions. He is clearly upset. She is not paying attention.
Monica Kraut she’s treating him like he’s a perp. If you do this and this you can have. I’m so stealing my brain tells me not to tell you my secret! That’s brilliant. As a grown women I wouldn’t answer her. I bet she had kids or one. I’ve met as a kid and throughout my life had therapist I straight told them with the way the went about things they shouldn’t work with people period. That place is a child’s advocate facility? It’s so sterile and unwelcoming. I feel for this kid. Reading everyone’s comments from crumpling the paper to disassociate from the trauma and his coat left on it’s all the things your mommy does :( I would totally be on a million subjects with my adhd ass. Kids a good self advocate. My brain tells me how long I love it kids never underestimate them. Fuck this lady. I have no idea what this case is about other than what others mention it’s just hard to watch as a person who suffer a lot of trauma from childhood throughout my life. This lady shouldn’t work with ppl. This kid is like deuces. He’s smart asking for the time. She won’t listen to him about his homework. Schedule keeps ppls sanity. I want to kick this lady in the lady box. She walks out in a huff really mature he’s not even hyper, imagine what she would do if he was.
He said his brain told him that, could be a sign of dissociating from the trauma. Your brain builds new ways to handle trauma you may not be able to be able to handle normally.
This is the second interview. The one the day before he told a totally different and probably much truer story. The cops told Josh what he said about his mom. Then the next day he comes back talking about we can't talk about susan or camping. It's obvious josh coached him the night before. He's a monster. But yeah second interview. No disassociating...his asshole father is written all over that statement right there.
@@Thebeautiful11 even if that's true it doesn't change the fact that he's obviously coached. "We can't talk about Susan or camping"c'mon. He's a small kid .....if he didn't want to he would have said I don't wanna talk about that or mommy not "Susan" it's so obvious that he was coerced into keeping quiet. So that doesn't really change anything
She doesn’t realize that the things she is saying are leading his stories. It’s so annoying. She has no patience either. Poor Charlie. He is sitting there with his winter jacket still on, no toys, no coloring books, nothing to busy his body to relax his little mind.
Little known fact- sometimes kids feel more comfortable wearing their hats and/or coats. I’m a preschool teacher, and I can’t tell you how many first days of daycare/school I’ve seen where a child just wants to keep their cozy outdoor things ON. Adults think it’s weird so they try to coax them out of the jackets and hats but it just makes them more nervous and uncomfortable. In my experience when the kid gets comfortable, they’ll take the coat off.
That little boys was a smart cookie in this vid he found the mirrored window in a previous vid he found the microphone that was conducted to the “ coconut tree “
Ikr and nothing to drink? Food still in the bag... just pissed me off. She totally interrogated him and never got into his lever, physically or emotionally. He could have said more but you can tell got disinterested after he wasn’t given what he was asking for.
Agreed. I think the stutter was him being stuck between what he knew vs what his dad told him to say and not to say. This is heartbreaking to watch, especially knowing the outcome.
@@billpiechocki That family was as mixed up mentally as the current Daybell/Vallow are. ( I think, they both are linked by Idaho religious practices) ?
Get the boy siccors have someone run to the drug store grab kiddy scissors! This was VERY important to Charley and you ignored him over & over! That was a huge mistake. He needed to do his homework ...hello. It would have helped him tremendously! She was in a big hurry. She needed to take time with him she was rushing over everything he was saying. She messed up her chance & she talked down to him ,by saying his homework could be anything so just color a picture on my notebook. He's a very smart young boy. Plus he made it absolutely clear he would talk if he could just do his homework!!! Once she wasn't gonna let him talk on his terms ..he shut down. 😔 Such a shame. Plus He's traumatized. She could have told him its ok if he feels upset about mommy being gone. Maybe if she talked about his feelings a little bit & tried to help him feel comfortable, it might have been easier for him to answer the question . Its painfully obvious he is avoiding the topic because its very upsetting and he's trying to avoid having to deal with his emotions. Not only that, someone told him to not talk about his mommy. To keep everything a secret. All he asked for was scissors to do his homework & She ruined her best chance to talk with him. Poor little guy 😢💔
THE COPS/PIG ARE NOT THERE TO HELP US!! THERE IS A BLUE LINE LIKE THEY WANT.. WAKE UP AMERICAN!!! UA-cam 1ST AMENDMENT AUDIT !!!!!! LEARN THE TRUTH !!!!!!!!!! SHAME !!
She needs replaced. Omg. This woman is not interested in the child. She is more concerned about her status quo to peers. Very poor job. Still has coat on. I can't watch her poor excuse if interview. I am complaining.
I couldn't agree more. That interviewer is completely out of her element. I made it 3 mins and she already has ME frustrated. All she's going to do is frustrate this child. She has zero idea how to talk to a child. She's not even in the right chair to talk to him. Grrrr... >:(
My brain is screaming at her! She’s trying to direct his thoughts and not listening to him. He opened tons of opportunities to gain info. And you never ask vague open-end questions to little children like “tell me about your mom.” What an idiot
she is not going about in a way to gain his confidence. He has been told not to tell her things so asking him directly wont work. Asking him what he liked to do with Mommy, especially if he is distracted with a toy or coloring book would be more likely to get more information. Poor little fella, how could anyone want to hurt their in laws enough to kill him and his brother
This woman is so not good with kids jeeez she has zero patience n expects way too much no empathy for the sweet lil kid etc. She deff. Needs a diff. Line of work
Every time she says, "Come on, let's talk about it" or "You said you wanted to answer my questions" she pushes him further and further away. She should have sat down at the table with him and did his homework while talking to him. When he started talking about other things she quickly shut him down. If you're not interested in the little things a kid says they will never trust you with the big things.
Yeah, and I'm not trained like she is, but I would mix in things and little stories about my mommy and how she was lost once but we found her. Shit like that to get him bored with you but think "while we're on mommys type subject.."
What was important to him in that moment was doing his homework. He wanted to use scissors. She would have been amazed what all she could have gotten out of him if she had of just listened to what he was actually saying.
Susan Doss how right you are. Not only must everything the child says be listened to, but also acknowledged. He said his mom was far away in the North Pole and the water where the whales are is cold and his mom is in the North Pole where it’s far away and cold. Could he be trying to say his mom is in the cold water? Why doesn’t she “help” him do his homework? She could ask him to draw a picture of where his mom is. That would be his homework. What is wrong with her? Clueless.
I wish a child counselor was talking with Charlie. He said if she got scissors, he could talk. He wanted to work on his homework. She is very pushy and overbearing. Charlie is smart and has had enough. He looks hungry and thirsty too.
Lu Lu that’s not food. Couple of dry ass fries here and there STILL IN A BAG, and nothing to DRINK? wtf? I offer more food to neighbors kids down the street when they come over let alone you trying to get a murder story out of a kid. Smh
Moon Struck if it’s not food what is it? It’s not air! Sure if you want to be pedantic then it isn’t nutritious food but it’s something. It may be the best they could have done for that interview with the time and resources they had.
Kids should not be interviewed like adults, most children feel way more comfortable and at ease if they talk while playing with a toy, having something to fiddle around with or coloring. Charlie was uncomfortable and lost his attention from the conversation during the last half of the interview. It really is a shame that the system was part of how the boys were failed.
Lol seriously. She needs to use directs questions with a couple words. The kid will start going on and on. Just listen and ask questions if you don't understand what he literally said I can't believe she is trying to get this kid to review mentally a traumatic experience a few days later. The kid is literally saying my brain is telling me not to think about it
I came to say the same thing! Please take his coat off, let him have his food and some markers to color. Something. He is too young to be ok with chit chat, small talk with this boring ass woman
The change in his demeanor from the first interview to this one is astounding. You can tell 100% that someone is telling him to not talk about his Mom. So much so that he refers to her as Susan. He is detaching himself, his feelings, from the word ‘Mom’. The frustration at the beginning of him wanting to do his homework, the multiple times that he puts his hands up to his face, and his body language is all so different from the 3-4 months prior. Absolutely heartbreaking knowing what happened in the end. I can’t believe they even gave the father rights to see his children at his own private home. It should’ve been at a supervised state location.
Yep & if ur American & work then ur tax dollars are paying for this. The police only want what they want, to hell with the boy, also if that's what they're like with a 4yr old imagine what they can be like with a adult, especially if they believe that they committed a crime.
I’m far from a psychiatrist but I am a Mother. This poor child was worried about homework and this ladies says “ you can color and that’s your homework” he paused for so long. She cut him off several times. It was worse than when she asked him if he was hungry and couldn’t even give him a snack out of machine or something. Poor Charlie’s belly wouldn’t need a lot.
Reading the title .. she is an investigator not a psychologist?? So she may not know how to question a child. This was months after she was gone so Josh had a long time to implant false memories and feed them his ideas.
@@tinagillispie2471 Also she isnt even allowed to put his jacket out, give him lunch or something like this, because this endanger the statement. There are strictly rules about what you are allowed to do and what not. So she is doing everything right even if it looks false for a mother. Detectives have a different job than mothers.
And keeps redirecting the conversation, instead of asking him back up questions about what he’s saying. Why not ask who John is and why he would know where his mom is? She skipped over Jenny and Kirk wanting him dead... so many missed opportunities. She needs proper training on speaking and/or interviewing children
AS SOON as she mentions camping he shuts it down. i literally cant imagine how long it took too coach him to make that immediate response “we cant do that again” and proceeds with “it would be bad for us”.. children should get taken if its obvious they are being coached. theres no reason to coach a child into saying that unless the adults doing the coaching are guilty. use common sense...
He had been coaching those kids their entire lives. He probably had detailed murder plans, fantasies, and final solutions in store should his life tank long before those kids were ever even conceived.
@Morsie have you ever read the united states constitution? You sound uneducated to throw out comments of such frivolity. That is not penal code worthy period. There are many ways to skin a cat and going after mind games played on children is tantamount to the evil you seem to want to abolish. Learn to do what's right the right way.
She barely listened to what he was trying to say. This detective makes me angry. Fatal error not asking anything at all about Susan herself, his relationship with her and did she roast marshmallows while camping, that sort of thing, anything other than "Susan's missing". Cringeworthy. They might have found out more. Lacking the interpersonal skills required which would have made little Charlie more at ease. Heartbreaking
Exactly. I also think it would have been useful/smart if the woman interviewing Charlie would have gotten him some crayons and some paper at least. A lot of kids do better speaking while doodling or having a toy in their hand. I feel that this police officer did lack a sense of interpersonal skills in this video. The tone sounded tired.
Again - she cannot do that. The questioning would get thrown out by the court. They couldn't even use it as probable cause, because of "fruit of the poisonous tree" - if you get testimony improperly, you cannot even use what you learned as a basis to get corroborating evidence to support it. None of you are criminal lawyers, and you seem to think she is a psychologist. She is like a detective, gathering evidence. She would be a witness for the prosecution and subject to cross-examination if it goes to trial.
@What They Dont Tell You I disagree. She went back to talk to other investigators two separate times, and came back with new approaches. Real life isn't TV drama, where the writers supply both the questions and the answers.
Did you notice on the first one, he said he was hungry and hadn't eaten all day. No offer of a comforting meal or snack at all!!??!! How is he supposed to relax sufficiently for an interview or in this case interrogation, when it's 3pm and he hasn't eaten? The very moment he let her know he was hungry, she should have IMMEDIATELY asked a member of staff to find him a snack to eat whilst waiting for a food delivery of his choice. Poor darling little boys. So clever and this woman doesn't get it AT ALL.
@@ATribeCalledDuff yes!!! I was screaming in my head w/in seconds of both vids. There's not one second of this where i find her the slightest bit component.
@@ATribeCalledDuff I read that they aren't allowed to offer food as it could be seen as a bribe in court. He is eating in this video but it appears the food is from before the interview and not provided by the interviewer.
Poor baby... his story changed completely from 2 days before this video. She stayed with the Crystals in Dinosaur National Park City he said last video. Now hes saying he has to keep secrets and not talk about his mom who coached this baby they're guilty of something
I think the North Pole may refer to it being all snow covered when Susan disappeared. I'm perplexed by his insistence that John knows where she is, he's the crazy one. I wonder if he's getting him mixed up with Michael.
Why didn't she ask him to draw a picture of the crystals? Why not ask him if they took him to the camp, can he show them where the crystals are? Was his mother upset? Was his dad mad?
They need a person who specializes in interviewing children and has experience with children this lady hasn't a clue u can tell she's not a mother ... this is scary he's trying to leave its obvious he doesn't want to get in trouble from his father ,its obviously john knows who ever john is and the other 2 people he names a female and I guy he said he didn't know there phone number . This is tragic and it happens more than we know...
@@happyone444able raising a child and trying to figure out where the kids Father buried his Mother are not the same situation.. it's totaly different treatment and kind of conversation.
Also this interviewer definitely did not approach certain things correctly either when talking to him. She does not phrase questions a different way to try to facilitate an answer.
Agent Orange you can't lead a child into questions as it would not stand up in court. This has happened many times where it looks like the interviewer prompted to get the answer Investigators wanted and then this doesn't fair well for prosecution.
She can't ask leading questions or the testimony cannot be used in court. She cannot lead him to answers. Thus, her hands are tied behind her back. She is not a psychologist. She is a questioner for the prosecution.
Aww bless him he said his brain told him not to tell ,it prob said to him don’t tell or daddy might make me get lost like Susan,bless him I’m in tears as he has been coached so bad to not even call her mum how disgusting josh was.and that interviewer didn’t even listen to the poor angel !! If she did they might have found Susan!rip three angels 👼🙏💖
Charlie has regressed since interview a year earlier. You can really see the difference of him being under his father's influence, rather than his mom's. He didnt stutter a year ago. Probably gets no hugs and kisses, anymore. #RIPCharlie
Yes, I agree - just watch some video on Josh and how he speaks to his kids. Some teach their kids to call them by their first names - they believe its the correct way to address someone. Anyhow, Josh most likely spoke in a third person way to explain things to Charley. The judge and people in this case really should be ashamed to allow those kids to be around him.
Unfortunately her interviewing style was not quite compatable with Charlie and he did not feel quite safe enough to be open with her. I feel that she was unable to get on his level and it closed him up unfortunately. I feel a different approach or more personable psychologist may have gotten much further. She was a little too adult and it''s obvious charlie did not trust her intentions.
Even in the December interview it was apparent. She wasn't very warm and kept trying too hard to direct the conversation and he was aware of it, especially considering he was most likely told by his father things about what would happen if he was open, and unfortunately her style only added to the distrust. She didn't connect with him in a safe loving way that would allow him the ability to feel secure after having gone what he'd gone through and knowing what he knows, she came off as pushy and authoritative and he clued into it. And that was quite unfortunate because a more friendly and understanding figure would have gotten better results. They should have seen this from the previous interview and gotten a different counselor.
Absolutely. Perhaps she just wasn’t allowed the time. He finds out immediately how invested she is. She gives him a no to the homework, she’s not going to trust him with scissors, or eat with him. Not a toy in sight.
She is exhausting him. Let him do his homework, distract him and let his brain calm down. Who is this interviewer? She has already made up her mind and is leading him.
should ask questions about what his dad was doing, who built the fire etc and the child should not have spent time with his dad after they came home and police came,
This video if you look at the bottom is actually taken on a different day than the original interview with him the original interview was on 12-8 this is in March. So that day I highly doubt she got him any food but on this day she should have helped him take off his coat give him some coloring supplies and some scissors if he wanted them to help him relax. This woman literally does not know how to interact with a 4 year old
Ok why leave him in the coat? He chokes eating and no drink. She argues with him. Her voice is completely different. About the homework. He checks out on her. She was going to the North Pole. He said Utah deserts. She ignored him.
I think it would have helped if she had him take off his coat, maybe sat and colored with him, and been more relaxed and said, Can I ask your "brain" about your secrets?
I'm guessing this person conducting the interview is either an intern or new hire. She was grossly unprepared and ineffective at conducive communication. She brought no food, snacks or other tools to elicit discussion, like toys or puzzles, or crayons.
This was absolutely heartbreaking to watch! This child is choking on his food b/c she wasn't smart enough get him a damn drink. He repeatedly tells her he needs to do his homework & that he wants scissors to do it & instead of her going along with what this little boy needs to feel safe enough to possibly open up to her, she antagonizes him & continues to talk down to him. She's not asking the right questions, she's not keeping her cool. WTF?!?! There are soooo many things wrong with this woman & the way she's interrogating this little boy. I'll say it again A LITTLE BOY! My blood is literally boiling after watching this.
I'm so surprised they didn't bring in a play therapist to manage this process. When children are playing, they access different areas of their brains and can communicate, sometimes, more effectively from their traumatic memories. That's a very rough explanation, but truly that's why skillful play therapists are able to make better progress with kids who have experienced trauma or unpleasantness that they may prefer to avoid, or suppress.
She sounds so over this while talking to Charlie. He wants to do homework, his mind is all over because he's nervous, let him do homework, it'll take hours, he'll keep talking
This woman knows very little - or absolutely nothing - about interviewing a child. She should have simply asked him to tell her about his mommy and shut her mouth and let him talk. She repeatedly interrupted him. The way children talk at that age, if she had just let him follow his own path of thought, there would have been a wealth of information uncovered. Once children that age get to talking - without prompting! - they usually don't stop. They start getting excited the adult is listening and talk more and more. Her telling him it was okay to tell the secret had him distracted to something was wrong. Instead of saying it's okay to tell the secret, she could have asked him what the secret is and gone from there. When he stopped talking about the secret, she could have told him she would tell him her secret and tell him something to harmless as her favorite color or what her pet's name is. When the adult starts telling secrets, the child does also. This golden opportunity was lost because she does not know how to talk with children. If she had formal training, it was all textbook and nothing real life! A pre-school teacher would have done a better job. In fact, a pre-school teacher just sitting with him and talking - and maybe both of them drawing - would have gotten more information from him, untainted information. She talked *to* him and never *with* him! She never let him control the conversation - he, not she, had the information to share. Does anyone besides me wonder why she *never* asked him what the North Pole looks like? He kept saying his mom went to the North Pole - it seems that is a logical question!!!
True! Everything you wrote is true. I just want to pick this woman up and SLAP her. Give him time to answer. There's power in the silences too. Charlie's poor little 5 year old brain doesn't work the same as an adults. Heis not a teenage drug overlords for Heaven,'s sake, not that I believe she'd get anywhere with them either. If SHE'S the best that Police Department had then Lord help them. There was no time taken to get his coat off, ask him what he had or has for lunch, no engaging him slowly and building trust. My grandson was 5 in March 2010 and whereas Charlie's been dead for years my Billy is a teen who has a girlfriend, enjoys his friends company and music. I can't help but wonder if this woman had done the interview differently then he may have said something that would have kept his father from having the opportunity to kill he and his brother. But we will never know. Poor Susan and her boys. This case is one of a handful that still bother me. Very very sad.
@@michellesartori6695 He said so much that if she had followed it there would have been much revealed. Even a simple "tell me about the airplane" would have sent him off in a really informative chat. That precious child likely knew what happened, or at least much of it, and properly talked with would have revealed much - specifically listened to rather than trying to guide him. It's exactly why Josh didn't want him alone with anyone - Josh knew if he started talking that there would be things revealed. When children get started, they go on forever.
Get him some damn scissors!! He obviously needed them for something!! They have kid ones !!She may have had a better chance of getting information out of him. And get him a drink!!! I’m so frustrated with this lady!
Charlie Joshua Powell I know that your mother is she alive is she there’s way bring her and Sharon home know how to Steven thorell Ned ney thing Christmas
I wonder if who ever coached him, because quite obviously he has been, threatened him to “keep it a secret” and to say “i don’t know where she got lost” and not say who it is that coached him. Because whenever she pushed to find out if someone coached him, he struggled to figure out an answer. He also without being prompted said that he had no idea where she was immediately which is very strange to me. He also gets very upset at one point because she keeps asking and he quite obviously has a reason as to why he doesn’t want to talk about it, which ties back into the theory that whoever coached him also threatened him.
The child makes reference of his brain, obviously programmed to say that too, I was wondering why these children were allowed to be with their farther but I need study more about the case.
Deformed Conscience i think it was josh and/or his father. both were very manipulative men and i have no doubts at least josh was somehow involved in the coaching.
Keith Citizen The grandparents won custody when eventually they figured Josh had something to do with it but it is somewhat of a process and it doesn’t help that before something could be done here he moved to a different state out of utah’s jurisdiction.
i am really shocked about this I thought for any extensive amount of questioning a child in a situation like this they always used child psychologist or someone trained in social work with children!
I have three lil boys and I don’t think I would say she was evil just naive. She’s more concerned with catching a murderer.I feel sorry for him because he’s trying to keep a secret and tell the truth at the same time.
The change in this little boy between this and another interview is huge. He has developed a stutter and also is very guarded in what he is saying and has to think about what he is going to say. He also trails off and away from any questions that are hard for him. The change in him is huge. Poor kid
@@lulu1111 Yet, absolutely clueless on subtlety & incompetent on how to effectively retrieve sensitive or traumatizing information from children. It is nothing less than gross incompetence. It's shocking, quite frankly.
I could probably have gotten more out of him. You sit on the floor on his level. You get him to draw and color things while you join him. You ask questions, mixed in with other topics along with the info you need. You could even ask him to draw the camp fire, s'mores, the place where the crystals grow... Sounds like a cave... He can draw everyone that was camping while you admire his work and give positive reinforcement encouraging him to do and say more. Make him feel important and like he is part of the team. Make it like an adventure. Kids tell you all kinds of stuff. Do trade a secret for a secret kinda game. Start with favorite color, activity and progress on to more serious stuff... There are so many ways to go about it but you don't put him in a tiny chair, sit on a big chair and start firing questions at him. Making your voice soft and gentle is an act, kids see right through it. She didn't even help him out of his coat. I've had kids tell me all kinds of crap I didn't ask about and didn't want to know just because I sat and colored with them, played with Play-Doh, or just drawing things. They suddenly become an open book. If you make them feel important, show them respect, (not this fake nice lady act, treat them like you are on the same level rather than like a child, you get better results.
This child NEEDS the scissors/crayons/pencil/toys SOMETHING. He is trying to calm down the part of the brain that stores trauma. He's TRYING to regulate himself. That's why he's crunching up the paper. He's a bright little boy. I'm so sorry.
You are so right ... “he is trying to regulate his emotions”
She was inadequately prepared for interviewing a young child. Poor Charlie.
Boy she needs to just get to the point the poor child may he rest in Peace with his brother and Mom. xo
I agree. She needs to give him a little space. He’s shutting down because he wants to think about other things too.
Who else is trying to regulate their emotions watching this? It made me sob.
So the general consensus that this interviewer shouldn't be doing this. I'll never understand why police departments don't use License child psychologists. Subjecting vulnerable children to unprofessional persons is repulsive . She knows nothing concerning children. It so obvious.
I just posted the same thing... i work with children and i find it amazing what they reveal when they're distracted by small tasks.
Right, she is awful with children.
I thought they DID use licensed child psychologists! I used to work on a child/adolescent (5 to 18), unit with 2 child psychologist and had seen a lot of their recorded sessions and interactions. They were wonderful. The kids had all sorts of serious problems and really opened up to them. That woman obviously had NO training with children.
Agreed!!
It’s like she’s losing her patience with him. She probably thinks he knows what happened to his mom. I’m sure it would’ve come out by now! But she’s pushing to get answers she wants!
He can't talk about her or camping and he's suddenly calling her Susan, not Mom. He's being encouraged to forget her. He's also being told all sorts of things to confuse his memories. These sessions are too long for Charlie's age. This investigator REALLY needs to be replaced.
Well, he's dead so thats useless now, the entire situation is useless with the entire family dead, justice was not served.
Oh, I didn’t know the boys were also murdered by their father. My heart breaks for this child.
@@christiegroves so this boy was murdered after this interview??
@@bulletsfordinner8307 yes. After the father lost the custody battle vs. the mother's parents, a social worker brought the children to visitation with their father. The social worker was supposed to go inside the house but the father prevented her from entering. She smelled a strong odor of gasoline and called 911 because she feared for the safety of the children. The father killed Charlie and his brother Brayden first and proceeded to explode the house which resulted in his dying of smoke inhalation.
@@DOLfirst omg 😓
His dad coached him hard. Poor baby.
How about this. He is trying to tell her that he wants to be distracted by his homework in order to tell you what he wants to say! Such terrible investigators.
He straight up told her he wants to do homework and talk but while doing homework. She couldnt give him a few mins of HER time to let him get comfortable?
Exactly.
Child therapist here - they need to let forensic interviewers or therapists to do this part of the job 🤦🏼♀️
Why doesn't she have him take his coat off?!
Get comfortable.
She is young and dumb
She is not fit for this job
Terrible terrible interviewer..She has no idea how to talk to him at his level..So many mistakes..Poor kid..
I agree. The interviewer, does not understand children At all, she doesn't even notice his stutter is getting worse as his nervousness increases. She doesn't understand how to move forward, and change direction in her questioning method & technique. Getting a degree does Not make one a good child psychologist! She's awful, asking repeat questions about Mom, move forward and ask questions about things he likes, and subtly move to positive... things about his Mom to see where that leads.
Sugar Buns and give him his damn homework! This boy needs to get a break. Shame on HER. And then he was gone. What a horrible time for a child who will soon be dead at the hands of his father. I saw him in another say how hungry he is! No offer of food. This one becomes abusive in her not recognizing his need to get out of this room!.
I think that she is doing well 🙂!
Interviewer is a little bit too pushy has she forgotten she is talking to a four year old.
She doesn't deal with. Holdren well at all!
So clearly the 4 year old is the smartest in the room.
I so hate seeing little children being pumped ! I know there's an end to it...
But the affects on the child later... I feel so sad .
Oh dear the more I listen the more I feel sick for the mess they are making of Charlie's mind not just his family
I know, right! My question is how can they interview a minor without a family member present? The interviewer is awful at her job!!! This makes me sick.
So don't hate me but from what I've heard neither brothers nor the father are still alive (on a supervised visit the boys ran ahead and the father shut the door b4 the case worker got there, she called the police, could hear the boys crying then silence right b4 there was an explosion their father rigged, a hatchet was found next to the boys but cause of death was believed to b caused from smoke inhalation 😭) and their mother's body still hadn't been found as of 2019. Poor babies!!
@@bres5010 OMG no I did not know this! That is heartbreaking. I just came across this story today and I have watched several videos this morning..... So very sad..
This woman is pathetic. Her approach is not even good with an adult, much less a child. I feel so bad for this beautiful little boy.
DITTO!!!!!!
He and his brother along with their mother are now with the Angel's, because their selfish and souless p.o.s. father killed all of them. 😭😭
@@KlassiclyRevampT
Precisely! That *POS* selfishly murdered his family, and then commited suicide. I cannot imagine what those innocent little babies went thru as *Daddy Dearest* had the hatchet and flammable fuel in hand approaching them. Selfish $@#%@& shoved the CPS lady from entering the house.
Does anyone know the timeline from when *Daddy Dearest* emailed his goodbyes up until CPS arrived with the boys for the supervised visit? Could one of the people he emailed goodbye had time to contact authorities?
😩
Cause you're the pillar of academia
She has no idea what she's doing.
If you want a little boy to talk, you better get some toys and start playing...
They'll tell you anything you want to hear while they're playing.
and never ask that direct question of where is Mommy if he has told you hes not supposed to tell. Ask him to tell you about his favorite things to do with his family, what did he like to do with his mommy. He would open up and tell you more if you let him tell it his way
Agree. I wish they had given him four people toys or dolls- one woman, one man and two boys. He might've acted out what happened with the four figures.
Absolutely! She is pressuring him too much. 😞
Exactly. I'm a teacher & her lack of concern for his emotional welfare was concerning. To build trust you need to get down to their level & use play, because playing makes it easier for them to communicate on things they find traumatic. In the UK a children's social worker would be legally required to be present,to safeguard his emotional well being.
@@sarahholland2600 Exactly! Play therapy
This detective should never be allowed to interview another child. She's as overbearing as his father. No compassion, empathy or common sense. The child still has his coat on, eating lunch straight from a paper bag and nothing to drink. He told her he would talk while he did his homework not something she made up for him to do. Where the hell was her supervisor? RIP in peace poor baby.
Well, check her body language. Distant from boy. Cold.
Colleen Blackwater l
I can't watch. He is an absolute angel and she is clueless about how to talk to children. This is just too heartbreaking.
i just finished watching another one and he told her he hadnt eaten all day, and she confirmed she understood him bye repeating it back to him and she never once asked him if he wanted something to eat, and then started talking about food.
@@tammydavis-howard220 Just came from the same interview & that was exactly what I thought she was doing when she left. I was surprised to see her come back with no food. And the fact that he was talking about flowers being "not pretty" with only some flowers being pretty, and he was happy where he slept because there were no flowers - this was obviously an important detail to him and she really should have asked at least SOME questions about. And the round red berries on the flowers? But what do I know - the last interview was the first time I've heard anything about this case. I guess I know what I'm doing for the rest of the night!
@@tammydavis-howard220 I can't even. 🤦♀️
@@cleoharper1842 Ha ha! I do the same thing.
@@VioletJoy So I just watched this one; unbelievable. Does this lady have any kids?? I don't have kids and even I know where she's screwing up. Just off the top of my head, why hasn't she asked:
--about "Susan" instead of "Mom?"
--where he thinks the North Pole is.
--any OTHER questions about "John."
--When you say your brain, do you mean your Dad?
--Or any of the usual tactics, like doing something to gain the kid's trust, or making him WANT to tell her, or even "correcting" her when she makes a mistake (purposely making the mistake), or lying, just like they do with adults. Such as, "It's okay, your Dad said you could talk to me, but maybe he hasn't told you yet so we don't have to. Does he always wait and tell you last? Etc. As long as you're not bullying or re-traumatizing him, it should be permitted, right? And I'm sorry, but five year olds can read you better than most adults - he KNOWS when she gets frustrated, and he KNOWS that it works to his favor. But you're right - he's so small and adorable I'm terrified to find out what happened to him. His father coached him so much I doubt he'd really know the truth by then anyway. I shudder at what that kid overheard in the aftermath...let alone the rest of it.
edit: and what commenter gardener said about the scissors. Exactly right.
The stuttering is a sign of anxiety . Some toys or colouring book would have been a better strategy to relax him & get him to talk while an activity took his mind off his anxiety.
Sarah Holland I didn’t notice a stutter in the earlier interviews either.
@@shielamauldin-brown3657 he doesn't stutter in the first one. This one he does around four or five times.
@@sarahholland2600 hes stuttering harder in this interview because she is pushing his buttons she's not there to help Charlie recover from the trauma she is there to find facts to help find the mother who may not be dead yet. She did a good job Charlie talked clearly he talked clearly his message was clear "I don't want to talk about this. my dad told me not to talk about Susan or camping" that's what he said. "she is with John, my schizophrenic Uncle who I am also not supposed to talk about per my dad. They are with the pretty flowers and the crystals in a place far away at the North Pole". that is what his dad told him to say.
@@jh-is8nq I never said that was her job. I was pointing out that children interact better (& therefore are more likely to supply useful info )when doing an activity they enjoy. If he's stuttering she should change tack as it's anxiety & she's not legally allowed to distress him to get info . I'm an ex teacher so not pulling theory or child protection law out of thin air..
@@sarahholland2600 ok, but you do realize she didn't have a lot of time to be dilly dallying around with Charlies comfort level since there were most likely several detectives waiting to be dispatched on where they might look for this freshly missing woman who may be breathing her last breath? And you will agree she wasn't being mean to Charlie so much as she was being pushy and a bit self serving in her attempt to help find a missing person and potentially save the life of Charlies mother , which in my opinion is more to Charlies benefit then helping him with his homework? Agreed?
Like, take his jacket off, give him a drink, sit on the floor... she's clueless....
That's the first thing I thought... take his coat off and give him something to eat or drink.
That's what I said,she obviously dont have children&shouldn't!!!
There is another video of this woman interviewing him the day after his Mother went missing where he tells her he is hungry and that he did not have breakfast or lunch. She replies with well, maybe we can get you something to eat after you talk to me! Broke my heart...
She is horrible. She is not trying in the least to make him comfortable. She is getting impatient and she is not doing a good job getting anything from him because she just wants him to answer her questions. He is clearly upset. She is not paying attention.
Monica Kraut she’s treating him like he’s a perp. If you do this and this you can have. I’m so stealing my brain tells me not to tell you my secret! That’s brilliant. As a grown women I wouldn’t answer her. I bet she had kids or one. I’ve met as a kid and throughout my life had therapist I straight told them with the way the went about things they shouldn’t work with people period. That place is a child’s advocate facility? It’s so sterile and unwelcoming. I feel for this kid. Reading everyone’s comments from crumpling the paper to disassociate from the trauma and his coat left on it’s all the things your mommy does :( I would totally be on a million subjects with my adhd ass. Kids a good self advocate. My brain tells me how long I love it kids never underestimate them. Fuck this lady. I have no idea what this case is about other than what others mention it’s just hard to watch as a person who suffer a lot of trauma from childhood throughout my life. This lady shouldn’t work with ppl. This kid is like deuces. He’s smart asking for the time. She won’t listen to him about his homework. Schedule keeps ppls sanity. I want to kick this lady in the lady box. She walks out in a huff really mature he’s not even hyper, imagine what she would do if he was.
"We dont talk about susan or camping...i keep secrets",,, humm i wonder who told him That
He said his brain told him that, could be a sign of dissociating from the trauma. Your brain builds new ways to handle trauma you may not be able to be able to handle normally.
Yeah im wondering if he's using his brain to explain another side of himself. His brain tells him one thing and inside he knows something eles.
This is the second interview. The one the day before he told a totally different and probably much truer story. The cops told Josh what he said about his mom. Then the next day he comes back talking about we can't talk about susan or camping. It's obvious josh coached him the night before. He's a monster. But yeah second interview. No disassociating...his asshole father is written all over that statement right there.
@@amylapratt8964 this interview says March. The other one was December, right after the incident.
@@Thebeautiful11 even if that's true it doesn't change the fact that he's obviously coached. "We can't talk about Susan or camping"c'mon. He's a small kid .....if he didn't want to he would have said I don't wanna talk about that or mommy not "Susan" it's so obvious that he was coerced into keeping quiet. So that doesn't really change anything
She doesn’t realize that the things she is saying are leading his stories. It’s so annoying. She has no patience either. Poor Charlie. He is sitting there with his winter jacket still on, no toys, no coloring books, nothing to busy his body to relax his little mind.
I’m thinking-she must not have any kids. I could do a better job!
Little known fact- sometimes kids feel more comfortable wearing their hats and/or coats. I’m a preschool teacher, and I can’t tell you how many first days of daycare/school I’ve seen where a child just wants to keep their cozy outdoor things ON. Adults think it’s weird so they try to coax them out of the jackets and hats but it just makes them more nervous and uncomfortable.
In my experience when the kid gets comfortable, they’ll take the coat off.
And nothing to drink, even after he choked on the French fry!
That little boys was a smart cookie in this vid he found the mirrored window in a previous vid he found the microphone that was conducted to the “ coconut tree “
Ikr and nothing to drink? Food still in the bag... just pissed me off. She totally interrogated him and never got into his lever, physically or emotionally. He could have said more but you can tell got disinterested after he wasn’t given what he was asking for.
This poor little guy. She's patronizing, doesn't get down to his level and doesn't listen to him at all.
Deb Noel Very smart articulate little boy! A procrastinator too🥱
I agree she’s not relating to him at all. She seems like she’s frustrated and kids are good at reading ppl.
If she would give him some colors and paper. I bet this Little Man would draw her a picture that would blow her mind.
She got her own agenda and doesn't care and can't read the signs that he's exhausted shes horrible
My brain equals my dad.."my brain told me"
Poor little guy stuttered a lot in this interview, vs. the first one. How sad when your parent is a monster.
He is regressing. He should not have been sent home. This is my second video and I can tell that. Wow.
Yes definitely regressed since mommy is gone :(
That stuttering was a tell, ...I saw fear and this interview was traumatic. Poor little soul.
Agreed. I think the stutter was him being stuck between what he knew vs what his dad told him to say and not to say. This is heartbreaking to watch, especially knowing the outcome.
he literally said “john knows” “he went where Susan went”. come on Why question them if when they say something you don’t do anything about it
@anon e muss, Josh's brother. He ended up killing himself about a year after Josh killed himself, and his two little boys.
@@billpiechocki That family was as mixed up mentally as the current Daybell/Vallow are. ( I think, they both are linked by Idaho religious practices) ?
@@tinagillispie2471 speaking of daybell/vallow... Did anybody else catch that Susan's maiden name is COX? just like Lori's!!!
Bonnie Joy yeah I brought that up on chat on the podcast
Bill Piechocki that was Michael but some where else it was reported josh used an alias - ?
Get the boy siccors have someone run to the drug store grab kiddy scissors! This was VERY important to Charley and you ignored him over & over! That was a huge mistake. He needed to do his homework ...hello. It would have helped him tremendously! She was in a big hurry. She needed to take time with him she was rushing over everything he was saying. She messed up her chance & she talked down to him ,by saying his homework could be anything so just color a picture on my notebook. He's a very smart young boy. Plus he made it absolutely clear he would talk if he could just do his homework!!! Once she wasn't gonna let him talk on his terms ..he shut down. 😔 Such a shame. Plus He's traumatized. She could have told him its ok if he feels upset about mommy being gone. Maybe if she talked about his feelings a little bit & tried to help him feel comfortable, it might have been easier for him to answer the question . Its painfully obvious he is avoiding the topic because its very upsetting and he's trying to avoid having to deal with his emotions. Not only that, someone told him to not talk about his mommy. To keep everything a secret. All he asked for was scissors to do his homework & She ruined her best chance to talk with him. Poor little guy 😢💔
THE COPS/PIG ARE NOT THERE TO HELP US!! THERE IS A BLUE LINE LIKE THEY WANT.. WAKE UP AMERICAN!!!
UA-cam 1ST AMENDMENT AUDIT !!!!!! LEARN THE TRUTH !!!!!!!!!! SHAME !!
Are you kidding he said he wanted scissors cause he liked to cut himself.
@@janetrabideau4562 are you stupid
?
She needs replaced. Omg. This woman is not interested in the child. She is more concerned about her status quo to peers.
Very poor job. Still has coat on. I can't watch her poor excuse if interview. I am complaining.
Exactly! I was so bothered by her pushing aside his need to do his homework. Maddening!
Who put this lady in charge of talking to this child? They should be fired for stupidity.
I couldn't agree more. That interviewer is completely out of her element. I made it 3 mins and she already has ME frustrated. All she's going to do is frustrate this child. She has zero idea how to talk to a child. She's not even in the right chair to talk to him. Grrrr... >:(
My brain is screaming at her! She’s trying to direct his thoughts and not listening to him. He opened tons of opportunities to gain info. And you never ask vague open-end questions to little children like “tell me about your mom.” What an idiot
she is not going about in a way to gain his confidence. He has been told not to tell her things so asking him directly wont work. Asking him what he liked to do with Mommy, especially if he is distracted with a toy or coloring book would be more likely to get more information. Poor little fella, how could anyone want to hurt their in laws enough to kill him and his brother
ABSOLUTELY 100% She is NOT equipped. And why is she not taking his coat for him. And...sooo many questions for HER.
I know
This woman is so not good with kids jeeez she has zero patience n expects way too much no empathy for the sweet lil kid etc. She deff. Needs a diff. Line of work
This is why kids should be interviewed by a child psychologist, and preferably a forensic child psychologist
Every time she says, "Come on, let's talk about it" or "You said you wanted to answer my questions" she pushes him further and further away. She should have sat down at the table with him and did his homework while talking to him. When he started talking about other things she quickly shut him down. If you're not interested in the little things a kid says they will never trust you with the big things.
Yeah, and I'm not trained like she is, but I would mix in things and little stories about my mommy and how she was lost once but we found her. Shit like that to get him bored with you but think "while we're on mommys type subject.."
As a mom I find it's easy to get them to talk by acting like it's a secret your really interested in.
What was important to him in that moment was doing his homework. He wanted to use scissors. She would have been amazed what all she could have gotten out of him if she had of just listened to what he was actually saying.
Susan Doss how right you are. Not only must everything the child says be listened to, but also acknowledged. He said his mom was far away in the North Pole and the water where the whales are is cold and his mom is in the North Pole where it’s far away and cold. Could he be trying to say his mom is in the cold water? Why doesn’t she “help” him do his homework? She could ask him to draw a picture of where his mom is. That would be his homework. What is wrong with her? Clueless.
I wish a child counselor was talking with Charlie. He said if she got scissors, he could talk. He wanted to work on his homework. She is very pushy and overbearing. Charlie is smart and has had enough. He looks hungry and thirsty too.
He is literally eating McDonalds during the interview.
Lu Lu that’s not food. Couple of dry ass fries here and there STILL IN A BAG, and nothing to DRINK? wtf? I offer more food to neighbors kids down the street when they come over let alone you trying to get a murder story out of a kid. Smh
Moon Struck if it’s not food what is it? It’s not air! Sure if you want to be pedantic then it isn’t nutritious food but it’s something. It may be the best they could have done for that interview with the time and resources they had.
@@lulu1111 how much time and resources does it take to get the kid a cup of water so he can swallow that FOOD down
She is so impatient!
Pr'bly never had kids!
Using drawing as an expression of what happens in someone life, could have been a possibility
Kids should not be interviewed like adults, most children feel way more comfortable and at ease if they talk while playing with a toy, having something to fiddle around with or coloring. Charlie was uncomfortable and lost his attention from the conversation during the last half of the interview. It really is a shame that the system was part of how the boys were failed.
This woman doesn’t know how to talk to this child
Lol seriously. She needs to use directs questions with a couple words. The kid will start going on and on. Just listen and ask questions if you don't understand what he literally said
I can't believe she is trying to get this kid to review mentally a traumatic experience a few days later. The kid is literally saying my brain is telling me not to think about it
J B totally!!
I totally agree!!! He's only 4-5 yrs old!!!
MPD at such a young age. And he knows Becky makes bad thoughts
I came to say the same thing! Please take his coat off, let him have his food and some markers to color. Something. He is too young to be ok with chit chat, small talk with this boring ass woman
The change in his demeanor from the first interview to this one is astounding. You can tell 100% that someone is telling him to not talk about his Mom. So much so that he refers to her as Susan. He is detaching himself, his feelings, from the word ‘Mom’. The frustration at the beginning of him wanting to do his homework, the multiple times that he puts his hands up to his face, and his body language is all so different from the 3-4 months prior. Absolutely heartbreaking knowing what happened in the end. I can’t believe they even gave the father rights to see his children at his own private home. It should’ve been at a supervised state location.
Obviously he was coached.
This is maddening to watch. The child is traumatized even if he didn't know anything and she's just so over it. I hurt for him. It's such a sad story.
This is a very troubling interview
Yep & if ur American & work then ur tax dollars are paying for this. The police only want what they want, to hell with the boy, also if that's what they're like with a 4yr old imagine what they can be like with a adult, especially if they believe that they committed a crime.
What a heavy burden for a little kid to carry - must have been so hard. Poor kid.
This little guy is so smart for 4..."my brain tells me to keep secrets and not talk about Susan " absolutely amazing. RIP 🙏
I’m far from a psychiatrist but I am a Mother. This poor child was worried about homework and this ladies says “ you can color and that’s your homework” he paused for so long. She cut him off several times. It was worse than when she asked him if he was hungry and couldn’t even give him a snack out of machine or something. Poor Charlie’s belly wouldn’t need a lot.
Reading the title .. she is an investigator not a psychologist?? So she may not know how to question a child. This was months after she was gone so Josh had a long time to implant false memories and feed them his ideas.
@@tinagillispie2471 f
@@tinagillispie2471 Also she isnt even allowed to put his jacket out, give him lunch or something like this, because this endanger the statement. There are strictly rules about what you are allowed to do and what not. So she is doing everything right even if it looks false for a mother. Detectives have a different job than mothers.
Poor baby. He was so bright! And intelligent!!!
Just let the child talk, stop interrupting the child's speaking. She's pushing too hard.
And keeps redirecting the conversation, instead of asking him back up questions about what he’s saying. Why not ask who John is and why he would know where his mom is? She skipped over Jenny and Kirk wanting him dead... so many missed opportunities. She needs proper training on speaking and/or interviewing children
He wanted to talk while doing his homework, like he did with his mommy I'm sure. So sad.
AS SOON as she mentions camping he shuts it down. i literally cant imagine how long it took too coach him to make that immediate response “we cant do that again” and proceeds with “it would be bad for us”.. children should get taken if its obvious they are being coached. theres no reason to coach a child into saying that unless the adults doing the coaching are guilty. use common sense...
Exactly! Most clear headed comment I have read on here yet.
He had been coaching those kids their entire lives. He probably had detailed murder plans, fantasies, and final solutions in store should his life tank long before those kids were ever even conceived.
Deformed Conscience i wouldn’t doubt it as much as Susan worked and as much as Josh stayed home doing absolutely nothing while watching the boys.
Could they have picked a worse person to question this child???
@Morsie have you ever read the united states constitution? You sound uneducated to throw out comments of such frivolity. That is not penal code worthy period. There are many ways to skin a cat and going after mind games played on children is tantamount to the evil you seem to want to abolish. Learn to do what's right the right way.
She barely listened to what he was trying to say. This detective makes me angry. Fatal error not asking anything at all about Susan herself, his relationship with her and did she roast marshmallows while camping, that sort of thing, anything other than "Susan's missing". Cringeworthy. They might have found out more. Lacking the interpersonal skills required which would have made little Charlie more at ease. Heartbreaking
Exactly. I also think it would have been useful/smart if the woman interviewing Charlie would have gotten him some crayons and some paper at least. A lot of kids do better speaking while doodling or having a toy in their hand. I feel that this police officer did lack a sense of interpersonal skills in this video. The tone sounded tired.
Me too! She messed up!
Again - she cannot do that. The questioning would get thrown out by the court. They couldn't even use it as probable cause, because of "fruit of the poisonous tree" - if you get testimony improperly, you cannot even use what you learned as a basis to get corroborating evidence to support it. None of you are criminal lawyers, and you seem to think she is a psychologist. She is like a detective, gathering evidence. She would be a witness for the prosecution and subject to cross-examination if it goes to trial.
@What They Dont Tell You I disagree. She went back to talk to other investigators two separate times, and came back with new approaches. Real life isn't TV drama, where the writers supply both the questions and the answers.
@@yes2day100 and gathering from a 4-year-old who is all over the place.
Awful. Was this woman ever trained in forensic interviewing of children. She is re-traumatizing this child.
It's the same B interrogating him as before. She needs to be replaced.
Did you notice on the first one, he said he was hungry and hadn't eaten all day. No offer of a comforting meal or snack at all!!??!! How is he supposed to relax sufficiently for an interview or in this case interrogation, when it's 3pm and he hasn't eaten? The very moment he let her know he was hungry, she should have IMMEDIATELY asked a member of staff to find him a snack to eat whilst waiting for a food delivery of his choice. Poor darling little boys. So clever and this woman doesn't get it AT ALL.
Agreed!!
@@ATribeCalledDuff yes!!! I was screaming in my head w/in seconds of both vids. There's not one second of this where i find her the slightest bit component.
@@dollymadison2397 Me too Terri!!! The poor wee lad ;(
@@ATribeCalledDuff I read that they aren't allowed to offer food as it could be seen as a bribe in court. He is eating in this video but it appears the food is from before the interview and not provided by the interviewer.
Omg!! My heart is breaking knowing this sweet soul is no longer living 💔
Charlie is no longer living?
@@justmewendy6461 no
Anita I saw the rest. It was so sad. Was working my tail off when this happened. Never heard...but for the grace of God. Wow.
What happened to this little boy.
Cynthia Dobbs their dad killed the two kids and himself
Poor baby... his story changed completely from 2 days before this video. She stayed with the Crystals in Dinosaur National Park City he said last video. Now hes saying he has to keep secrets and not talk about his mom who coached this baby they're guilty of something
I thought that too but when I went to check one was in December and one in March.
This interview was 4 months later.
This woman has no children. She couldn't possibly be worse at interacting with him.
I don't have kids and they tell me everything, she just sucks.
I think the North Pole may refer to it being all snow covered when Susan disappeared. I'm perplexed by his insistence that John knows where she is, he's the crazy one. I wonder if he's getting him mixed up with Michael.
There were too many crazy members of the Powell family for even me to keep them straight let alone this poor little confused angel.
Glorindellen who’s Michael.
@@terplauramarie Michael and John are josh Powells brothers
@@jezikastanley9360 Thank you.
What an amazingly bright little man, may he be playing with his brother, find his mum and the love and protection for his dear soul, R.I.P wee champ,
She seems annoyed by him. How heartbreaking. :(
Hey I been doing some research do u know what happed to the family bc that 911 call that Scott chance is scary
@@cherylnaughton8338 I don't. I'm sorry.
She was frustrated because there are so many restrictions about how she can ask questions due to the criminal investigation.
@@cherylnaughton8338 I'm wondering if it might be better for you to ask someone you know.
It frustrates me that this woman has no idea how to talk to or LISTEN to a child!!!!
This whole thing is so sad.
Heartbreaking.
💔
The Powell case is one of the most tragic cases I ever read about. These boys should have been removed from the father permanently. Too late now.
He s so intelligent for his age but shes overwhelming him with rapid fire questions n he dont know how to explain it all poor kid
Why didn't she ask him to draw a picture of the crystals? Why not ask him if they took him to the camp, can he show them where the crystals are? Was his mother upset? Was his dad mad?
She's letting him use his own words and not put words in his mouth. Otherwise the Father;s lawyer could say they coerced him.
I wish you had done the interview with him. Those are great questions.
They need a person who specializes in interviewing children and has experience with children this lady hasn't a clue u can tell she's not a mother ... this is scary he's trying to leave its obvious he doesn't want to get in trouble from his father ,its obviously john knows who ever john is and the other 2 people he names a female and I guy he said he didn't know there phone number . This is tragic and it happens more than we know...
This interrogator does NOT have children!
It is unbelievable that they used her.
I was just thinking the same thing!!
The worst interrogation, she should have played with him. She's so demanding
And I truly hope she never does. Not one caring empathetic, kind patient cell in her
@@happyone444able raising a child and trying to figure out where the kids Father buried his Mother are not the same situation.. it's totaly different treatment and kind of conversation.
Charlie is soooo smart!!! He was totally coached.... Poor little conflicted guy😕😕 He's sooooo torn
Calls his mother "Susan"! That 'father' was the demon.
Who's John?
@@tyronesmith11 josh's brother
Sometimes if a child wants to do home work maybe they will draw what they seen and feel on paper. the trauma they experience more visual.
Read between the lines Fire, boom, death poor baby
Draw a picture of your family may be a good start!
Also this interviewer definitely did not approach certain things correctly either when talking to him. She does not phrase questions a different way to try to facilitate an answer.
Hannah Grieco i thought so also. he was clearly smart enough to understand she could have gotten more out of him.
Yeah she should have led him with the statements to make him either say no that's not how or who, this is how and who.
Agent Orange you can't lead a child into questions as it would not stand up in court. This has happened many times where it looks like the interviewer prompted to get the answer Investigators wanted and then this doesn't fair well for prosecution.
Agent Orange I agree the interviewer was lousy in her approach though!
She can't ask leading questions or the testimony cannot be used in court. She cannot lead him to answers. Thus, her hands are tied behind her back. She is not a psychologist. She is a questioner for the prosecution.
Has this woman ever talked with a Child before? Jeez, I'm thinking a regular ol' mom could've done better than this so-called 'professional'.
Don't say this.
Please!
Hate is no Option.
Yes to many in jobs with poor skills.
Yep.. She was awful then too. She left him starving hungry and sat in a boiling hot coat.
Sounds like Charlies brain was working overtime. Trying to understand.
He's 4 yes old.. she's confusing him more ! She expects him to answer her as an adult. But, she can not answer his simple questions !
Those poor kids were just babies.
Aww bless him he said his brain told him not to tell ,it prob said to him don’t tell or daddy might make me get lost like Susan,bless him I’m in tears as he has been coached so bad to not even call her mum how disgusting josh was.and that interviewer didn’t even listen to the poor angel !! If she did they might have found Susan!rip three angels 👼🙏💖
Charlie has regressed since interview a year earlier. You can really see the difference of him being under his father's influence, rather than his mom's. He didnt stutter a year ago. Probably gets no hugs and kisses, anymore. #RIPCharlie
Josh was very affectionate toward his sons.. (probably leaning them into sexual situations) Josh's dad makes my skin crawl - appalling man.
This precious child is sharp!!! And adorable! See you soon Charlie..
Yes, I agree - just watch some video on Josh and how he speaks to his kids. Some teach their kids to call them by their first names - they believe its the correct way to address someone. Anyhow, Josh most likely spoke in a third person way to explain things to Charley. The judge and people in this case really should be ashamed to allow those kids to be around him.
He clearly says he doesn't want to talk...he's exhausted
What a handsome little guy, so tragic. I have a son the same age.
This is triggering ME, thinking of my boys at that age, I can't imagine how it makes YOU feel!
Heartbreaking to think he is dead now too.
@@lindahandley5267 have a bad day?
@@rissamatti8216 What's that supposed to mean?
@@lindahandley5267 Wasnt sure if you meant your comment to be sarcastic.
Charile so adorable sweet in the arms of mommy and Angels
Unfortunately her interviewing style was not quite compatable with Charlie and he did not feel quite safe enough to be open with her. I feel that she was unable to get on his level and it closed him up unfortunately. I feel a different approach or more personable psychologist may have gotten much further. She was a little too adult and it''s obvious charlie did not trust her intentions.
Even in the December interview it was apparent. She wasn't very warm and kept trying too hard to direct the conversation and he was aware of it, especially considering he was most likely told by his father things about what would happen if he was open, and unfortunately her style only added to the distrust. She didn't connect with him in a safe loving way that would allow him the ability to feel secure after having gone what he'd gone through and knowing what he knows, she came off as pushy and authoritative and he clued into it. And that was quite unfortunate because a more friendly and understanding figure would have gotten better results. They should have seen this from the previous interview and gotten a different counselor.
Absolutely. Perhaps she just wasn’t allowed the time. He finds out immediately how invested she is. She gives him a no to the homework, she’s not going to trust him with scissors, or eat with him. Not a toy in sight.
He was afraid because of what his father told him. No one could have calmed him down.
@@yes2day100 exactly! But you know how the "armchr experts " are....
This is excruciating to watch... someone should have intervened, this woman clearly has no understanding about speaking with children
AGREED!!!
He keeps looking at the camera he didn’t do that in the other interview. Wonder if his dad said something like I can see you in the camera...
She is exhausting him. Let him do his homework, distract him and let his brain calm down. Who is this interviewer? She has already made up her mind and is leading him.
Somebody who knew how to talk to a 5 yr old should have...
The first criteria should have to be to be a mother, then have sufficient training.
Please! Get someone else to interview children!
should ask questions about what his dad was doing, who built the fire etc and the child should not have spent time with his dad after they came home and police came,
She finally got him some food but nothing to drink? Seriously? Has this woman interviewed kids before? Snacks are good for kids.
This video if you look at the bottom is actually taken on a different day than the original interview with him the original interview was on 12-8 this is in March. So that day I highly doubt she got him any food but on this day she should have helped him take off his coat give him some coloring supplies and some scissors if he wanted them to help him relax. This woman literally does not know how to interact with a 4 year old
Everyone keeps saying this, but giving a 4-year-old a drink seems like a perfect recipe for distraction, especially if he spilled it.
Ok why leave him in the coat? He chokes eating and no drink. She argues with him. Her voice is completely different. About the homework. He checks out on her. She was going to the North Pole. He said Utah deserts. She ignored him.
I think it would have helped if she had him take off his coat, maybe sat and colored with him, and been more relaxed and said, Can I ask your "brain" about your secrets?
There must be a Heaven, 'cause Charlie, his brother, Braden, and Susan would most definitely have to have that as their destination...
I'm guessing this person conducting the interview is either an intern or new hire. She was grossly unprepared and ineffective at conducive communication. She brought no food, snacks or other tools to elicit discussion, like toys or puzzles, or crayons.
This was absolutely heartbreaking to watch! This child is choking on his food b/c she wasn't smart enough get him a damn drink. He repeatedly tells her he needs to do his homework & that he wants scissors to do it & instead of her going along with what this little boy needs to feel safe enough to possibly open up to her, she antagonizes him & continues to talk down to him. She's not asking the right questions, she's not keeping her cool. WTF?!?! There are soooo many things wrong with this woman & the way she's interrogating this little boy. I'll say it again A LITTLE BOY! My blood is literally boiling after watching this.
I'm so surprised they didn't bring in a play therapist to manage this process. When children are playing, they access different areas of their brains and can communicate, sometimes, more effectively from their traumatic memories. That's a very rough explanation, but truly that's why skillful play therapists are able to make better progress with kids who have experienced trauma or unpleasantness that they may prefer to avoid, or suppress.
I didn't see her get lost 😭😭 absolutely heartbreaking, that poor boy 😭😭
She sounds so over this while talking to Charlie. He wants to do homework, his mind is all over because he's nervous, let him do homework, it'll take hours, he'll keep talking
Yesss🤦♀️😥💔🙏❤
My heart is bleeding. He's getting so exhausted. He's confused.
This woman knows very little - or absolutely nothing - about interviewing a child.
She should have simply asked him to tell her about his mommy and shut her mouth and let him talk. She repeatedly interrupted him. The way children talk at that age, if she had just let him follow his own path of thought, there would have been a wealth of information uncovered. Once children that age get to talking - without prompting! - they usually don't stop. They start getting excited the adult is listening and talk more and more.
Her telling him it was okay to tell the secret had him distracted to something was wrong. Instead of saying it's okay to tell the secret, she could have asked him what the secret is and gone from there. When he stopped talking about the secret, she could have told him she would tell him her secret and tell him something to harmless as her favorite color or what her pet's name is. When the adult starts telling secrets, the child does also.
This golden opportunity was lost because she does not know how to talk with children. If she had formal training, it was all textbook and nothing real life! A pre-school teacher would have done a better job. In fact, a pre-school teacher just sitting with him and talking - and maybe both of them drawing - would have gotten more information from him, untainted information.
She talked *to* him and never *with* him! She never let him control the conversation - he, not she, had the information to share.
Does anyone besides me wonder why she *never* asked him what the North Pole looks like? He kept saying his mom went to the North Pole - it seems that is a logical question!!!
Especially since it was snowing that night.
True! Everything you wrote is true. I just want to pick this woman up and SLAP her. Give him time to answer. There's power in the silences too. Charlie's poor little 5 year old brain doesn't work the same as an adults. Heis not a teenage drug overlords for Heaven,'s sake, not that I believe she'd get anywhere with them either. If SHE'S the best that Police Department had then Lord help them. There was no time taken to get his coat off, ask him what he had or has for lunch, no engaging him slowly and building trust. My grandson was 5 in March 2010 and whereas Charlie's been dead for years my Billy is a teen who has a girlfriend, enjoys his friends company and music. I can't help but wonder if this woman had done the interview differently then he may have said something that would have kept his father from having the opportunity to kill he and his brother. But we will never know. Poor Susan and her boys. This case is one of a handful that still bother me. Very very sad.
@@tinahuffman588 Oh yeah! But she was rushing and didn't even see that this was important!
@@michellesartori6695 He said so much that if she had followed it there would have been much revealed. Even a simple "tell me about the airplane" would have sent him off in a really informative chat. That precious child likely knew what happened, or at least much of it, and properly talked with would have revealed much - specifically listened to rather than trying to guide him. It's exactly why Josh didn't want him alone with anyone - Josh knew if he started talking that there would be things revealed. When children get started, they go on forever.
He sounds programmed
Get him some damn scissors!! He obviously needed them for something!! They have kid ones !!She may have had a better chance of getting information out of him. And get him a drink!!! I’m so frustrated with this lady!
He cut himself with scissors before thats why she didn't give him any
Y doesnt she see he needs a drink while he eats he cant talk and eat he almost choked damn
I am so furious with that woman!
Sally Betts distractions will interrupt his talking! That’s what she is there for!
Then there would e a bathroom break, water fountain on and on ! He needs to tell the truth not be burdened with it! He’s so young☹️
So frustrating watching poor Charlie in these interviews. What is wrong these investigators ? 😡😡
RIP sweet boys, with your Mamma.
Charlie Joshua Powell I know that your mother is she alive is she there’s way bring her and Sharon home know how to Steven thorell Ned ney thing Christmas
I wonder if who ever coached him, because quite obviously he has been, threatened him to “keep it a secret” and to say “i don’t know where she got lost” and not say who it is that coached him. Because whenever she pushed to find out if someone coached him, he struggled to figure out an answer. He also without being prompted said that he had no idea where she was immediately which is very strange to me. He also gets very upset at one point because she keeps asking and he quite obviously has a reason as to why he doesn’t want to talk about it, which ties back into the theory that whoever coached him also threatened him.
The child makes reference of his brain, obviously programmed to say that too, I was wondering why these children were allowed to be with their farther but I need study more about the case.
Yes. They were clearly coached.... BY JOSH!
Deformed Conscience i think it was josh and/or his father. both were very manipulative men and i have no doubts at least josh was somehow involved in the coaching.
Keith Citizen The grandparents won custody when eventually they figured Josh had something to do with it but it is somewhat of a process and it doesn’t help that before something could be done here he moved to a different state out of utah’s jurisdiction.
The interviewer is horrible
it's driving me nuts that she won't help take that kids coat off! make him comfortable.. this should be titled how not to interview a child.
Geeze! Get a professional!!! Poor baby being messed with by everyone.
i am really shocked about this I thought for any extensive amount of questioning a child in a situation like this they always used child psychologist or someone trained in social work with children!
I have three lil boys and I don’t think I would say she was evil just naive. She’s more concerned with catching a murderer.I feel sorry for him because he’s trying to keep a secret and tell the truth at the same time.
The change in this little boy between this and another interview is huge. He has developed a stutter and also is very guarded in what he is saying and has to think about what he is going to say. He also trails off and away from any questions that are hard for him. The change in him is huge. Poor kid
Sorry, but this SOCIAL WORKER / INTERIGATER IS PITIFUL ..... NO WAY DOES SHE HAVE TRAINING for this job !!!!!
She's a Police Detective.
@@lulu1111 Yet, absolutely clueless on subtlety & incompetent on how to effectively retrieve sensitive or traumatizing information from children. It is nothing less than gross incompetence. It's shocking, quite frankly.
I could probably have gotten more out of him. You sit on the floor on his level. You get him to draw and color things while you join him. You ask questions, mixed in with other topics along with the info you need. You could even ask him to draw the camp fire, s'mores, the place where the crystals grow... Sounds like a cave... He can draw everyone that was camping while you admire his work and give positive reinforcement encouraging him to do and say more. Make him feel important and like he is part of the team. Make it like an adventure. Kids tell you all kinds of stuff. Do trade a secret for a secret kinda game. Start with favorite color, activity and progress on to more serious stuff... There are so many ways to go about it but you don't put him in a tiny chair, sit on a big chair and start firing questions at him. Making your voice soft and gentle is an act, kids see right through it. She didn't even help him out of his coat. I've had kids tell me all kinds of crap I didn't ask about and didn't want to know just because I sat and colored with them, played with Play-Doh, or just drawing things. They suddenly become an open book. If you make them feel important, show them respect, (not this fake nice lady act, treat them like you are on the same level rather than like a child, you get better results.
The woman is not a good interviewer.