How interesting. This is going to be an amazing process for some one who is 124 centric. With regard to the transmission, the thing that gives my Aus 300ce-24 the edge is the 5 speed 722.5 which the U.S did not get. Some bag it but I rebuilt mine at 350,000 k's and the only issue was the usual reverse grind. The 5th engages at about 80k's under mild acceleration. I have not had the car faster than 200k's but on the highway the 5 speed gives it very long legs with exceptional quietness and smoothness. At this mileage the M104 uses no oil between changes after I rebuilt the head about 2 years ago. Guides and stem seals were shot.
If you were on the east coast, II would say check out Heasman steering in Stydney, I think they have a good reputation with alignment on clasic Benz models. Bit of a trek from Perth though. 😂
W124 and w210 are pretty much my favourite shapes. Btw, i removed the centre resonator from my CLK430 and it sounds a little bit deeper and a little bit louder when i put my foot down but still just as quiet as stock when cruising on the highway (not exaggerating). If you want your e430 to be a little louder under acceleration but whisper quiet when cruising i suggest you give it a go
@@TheCluelessEnthusiast I need to do more research but you've given me a good idea to try something new. While I enjoy the 5 cylinder diesel sound, it's a bit too mute for my liking.
@@vilenore2496 i love the sound of the 5 cylinder. I think it needs to be louder. Lol. Believe it or not, i like the 5 cylinder diesel sound more than the om606. But it has to be louder and unrestricted. If its stock exhaust you only hear the tractor sound. Lol
I agree with you on the W210. The materials appear to be much cheaper. I’m waiting to see if you unpick/dismember this vehicle, like you did the W124 😊
Thank you for making these videos re w210. I own a w210 e430 here in Adelaide in almost perfect condition. Will be interesting to see more about this car. And yes I owned w124 and w140 over the last years and always found your channel helpful. Thank you!!
I wanted a perfect one too - It never worked out that way though. Having said that i've still not seen one for sale with less k's or issues so i cant complain too much. I actually wanted one i'd not have to do anything to and just put it away for the future. This ones turned into a bit of a project as theres a number of cosmetic issues that annoy me.
@@MMWA-DAVE Agree. I bought mine with 150k and it also and stil requires attention. My biggest concern is the oil consumption due to worn valve stem seals. Bought those almost 2 years ago and have not had a good time to replace them. Otherwise, a good and solid car. And yes, I got Kienzle radio installed in my w210 - amazing fit!!
@@igornikonov3187 Interesting! I have the kienzle in one of my 124’s. I could actually just swap it over as its also an iso harness deck. Did you ever get DAB working? Im not convinced the little adapter that connects it to the regular antenna even works. Have never seen my deck ever work on Dab, never picks up anything.
@@igornikonov3187 let me know if you ever get dab working. I did not research if dab is different country to country, while i bought it from soundlabs in AU they are just german grey market imports. I’m not aware of them actually having AU specific version, or didnt back then anyway.
In Down Under UV would be harsh. Not good if it is parked outdoors day and day out. If it has done 250,000km it basically had paid back to it's owners the initial capital when new. Able to keep it anything more than 20 years is really a bonus! 🤔🤔
I have owned a 1987 and 1988 300E, and still have my 1990 300CE. I have also owned a 1998 E320 and still own a 2000E430 and 2001 E430 Sport. These are all US models. The W124 was unquestionably the last of the great Mercedes. My 300CE is now collectible. As you mention the automatic transmission in the W124’s are not the greatest. They have very little kickdown for passing. The other problem is passing emission tests as the engines get older. But the seats and ride are amazing, with thick leather that doesn’t age. On the other hand, I love the V8 M113 in both of my E430’s. These are seriously fast, and the transmission is superb. The W210 also feels contemporary even though they are over 23 years old. My dream would be to transplant the M113 engine and transmission in my 300CE. The W124 rules, but the W210 is far superior to any of the Mercedes built since.
I’m gonna restore a 300CE-24 here in Portugal soon :) Even though it is an automatic it does have the 722.5 gearbox, which although is not that famous for reliability it does give you more flexibility :) The restoration should also include a complete swap from KE-Jetronic to EIS :)
We are thinking of installing the LH-Jetronic M104 3.2 we have spare in Tims blue 300e. I am keen to experience this challenge. Either with the original LH ecu and EZL or aftermarket ecu driving the injectors and coil directly
@@babybenz.190 yep, this is a commonly done thing. In our case the LH ezl’s seem to be much more reliable and are cheaper to obtain than the KE ones so not too concerned about using it.
@MMWA-DAVE I'd really love to see what you think of a well kept, early W210 with M104 and without parameter steering. My 1996 E280 is exactly that. The steering is really heavy but fairly direct. The 722.5 five-speed transmission is perfect for Autobahn cruising. Engine speed sits at roughly 2400 rpm when travelling 120 kph. The only complaints I have about it is the fact that it sets off in 2nd gear and that its shifs are very abrupt, sometimes quite aggressively uncomfortable.
yeah have very limited experience with the 210. I have only ever driven 430’s. Here in australia our early m104 w210’s came with 722.3 and optionally 722.5 transmissions. I was shocked to learn all US spec m104 320’s had 722.6. Would be very interesting to drive any of them. Have driven late hfm 320 w124 with 722.5 and that was pretty cool so would be similar in the 210 id imagine.
btw i saw parameter steering on all the 430’s including my own. No idea how that affects the driving experience as dont have anything to compare it against
it pulls away in 2nd because you have the winter setting selected on the gearbox (W)........ select (S) for summer! also put new oil in gearbox to increase fluidity of change ;)
@@richardwilson57 no that is not correct. The 722.5 gearbox always starts in 2nd gear no matter the selected program. There is the possibility to start from first gear but this has to be activated once the car has shifted from first into second. You might have the 722.5 and 722.6 mixed up. Two very different transmissions other than the fact that they both have "five" gears. The 722.5 naturally shifts "harder" than most more modern transmissions, including its successor. No oil change will change that. I have already done an oil change by the way
@@MMWA-DAVE I'm from Indonesia and my W124 E320 is 5 speed manual dogleg gearbox, in my country there is a lot of E320 W124 with 5 speed manual dogleg gearbox
rust is no problem here on the 124’s. My 210 however does have the usual rust in the door seal rubbers channels at the bottom. Only 1 of them quite bad but ive treated it and painted with miracle paint now.
I dont know anything about it as it was done by a previous owner. I dont know if you can even get them anynore. I am binning all 3 pieces, the badge and both gold stars and going back to factory. The only piece in good condition is the rear star the other 2 are worn / not looking good anymore.
Mi E320 W210 es del mismo color en su interior, pero mi volante es de madera y me gusta más, por fuera es dorado y en combinación con unos rines deportivos en color bronce se ve increíble 👍 🇲🇽🇲🇽
I own a 1995 W124 E280. Love the car. But i admire the interior of W210. The W211's interior looks cheap and lacking somehow, dont look luxurious. I dont like W124's black, some wooden gearknobs and steering wheel though. It looks cheap and ugly. Unless its sports steering and combo gearknobs available in some W124s. The rest of W124, superb.
Hello MMWA. Nice comparison between the W124 and W210. I had both models at the same time 16 years ago, a 2000 W210 Avantgarde 220 CDI (Diesel powered) and my W124 500 E, the latter I still own. I'll not compare the engines or performances, the 500 E is on another planet compared to the tiny 220 CDI Diesel of the W210. In terms of the driving experience, the W124 is much more interactive than the W210, the steering is way better, it corners better and it is more comfortable. For my height and weight, the seats of the W210 were a bit better but the steering wheel is a little of center, compared to the W124. The W210 has a lot more room inside, passengers in the rear seat have a lot more leg room, and also have air vents for the rear. The velour in the pillars and headliner are also more luxurious than the vinyl on the W124. In general, the cabin is way more modern than in the W124, with a lot of luxury touches that the W124 doesn't have. But it all comes with a price: the quality of the materials is way worse, my W124s don't make any rattle noise inside, the W210 with much less mileage was full of them. Reliability of the W124 is also MUCH better than the W210, I had several mechanical and electronic problems with mine. None of my W124s ever gave me a serious problem. And the last thing: rust! Portugal has a nice climate, the cars here don't have problems with rust... None of my W124s has problems, but the W210 had and I bought new, always garage kept. So, for me, in quality and to keep all my life, W124s are the way to go 😊😊 Kind regards
If only they kept up with moving the indicator to the correct side of the steering wheel. I absolutely hate indicators on the left. Skin crawls at the marketing phrase of “the best or nothing”
For me, the W210 is in the wrong league. Benzes built during the Decade of Decline (1995-2005), ruled over by Herr Professor Doctor Jurgen Schrempp, do not interest me one whit. Its was for that decade that the company was run by bean counters rather than engineers, and it shows. The overall quality of the 210, 140, and 202 is nowhere near that of the 124, 126, and 201, and their reliability was less than that traditionally enjoyed by owners of earlier Benzes. And I loathe cars that are over-assisted: no feel in the steering or brakes. For me the last best Benzes were the 201, 124, and 126.
Great review. Always cool to watch your videos.
How interesting. This is going to be an amazing process for some one who is 124 centric. With regard to the transmission, the thing that gives my Aus 300ce-24 the edge is the 5 speed 722.5 which the U.S did not get. Some bag it but I rebuilt mine at 350,000 k's and the only issue was the usual reverse grind. The 5th engages at about 80k's under mild acceleration. I have not had the car faster than 200k's but on the highway the 5 speed gives it very long legs with exceptional quietness and smoothness. At this mileage the M104 uses no oil between changes after I rebuilt the head about 2 years ago. Guides and stem seals were shot.
If you were on the east coast, II would say check out Heasman steering in Stydney, I think they have a good reputation with alignment on clasic Benz models. Bit of a trek from Perth though. 😂
What's the rôle of the green dot blink in the dash
I have the 300ce - 24 with manual dogleg manual shifter. Is super fun, i always accidentally burn my tyres at traffic lights
Great video!, I have a m104 engine with the 5 speed manual in my 1990 300Sl-24, youre right its super fun
lucky! I dont think we even got these in Au!
@@MMWA-DAVE I think the manuals are rare, ive only seen one other one in the US for sale recently. Its my first classic mb, im digging it.
W124 and w210 are pretty much my favourite shapes.
Btw, i removed the centre resonator from my CLK430 and it sounds a little bit deeper and a little bit louder when i put my foot down but still just as quiet as stock when cruising on the highway (not exaggerating). If you want your e430 to be a little louder under acceleration but whisper quiet when cruising i suggest you give it a go
Would this work on a 2.7CDI W210 as well?
@@vilenore2496 i think it would
@@TheCluelessEnthusiast I need to do more research but you've given me a good idea to try something new. While I enjoy the 5 cylinder diesel sound, it's a bit too mute for my liking.
@@vilenore2496 i love the sound of the 5 cylinder. I think it needs to be louder. Lol. Believe it or not, i like the 5 cylinder diesel sound more than the om606.
But it has to be louder and unrestricted. If its stock exhaust you only hear the tractor sound. Lol
@@TheCluelessEnthusiast My thoughts exactly. Can't wait to hear the difference.
I agree with you on the W210. The materials appear to be much cheaper. I’m waiting to see if you unpick/dismember this vehicle, like you did the W124 😊
Thank you for making these videos re w210. I own a w210 e430 here in Adelaide in almost perfect condition. Will be interesting to see more about this car. And yes I owned w124 and w140 over the last years and always found your channel helpful. Thank you!!
I wanted a perfect one too - It never worked out that way though. Having said that i've still not seen one for sale with less k's or issues so i cant complain too much. I actually wanted one i'd not have to do anything to and just put it away for the future. This ones turned into a bit of a project as theres a number of cosmetic issues that annoy me.
@@MMWA-DAVE Agree. I bought mine with 150k and it also and stil requires attention. My biggest concern is the oil consumption due to worn valve stem seals. Bought those almost 2 years ago and have not had a good time to replace them. Otherwise, a good and solid car. And yes, I got Kienzle radio installed in my w210 - amazing fit!!
@@igornikonov3187 Interesting! I have the kienzle in one of my 124’s. I could actually just swap it over as its also an iso harness deck. Did you ever get DAB working? Im not convinced the little adapter that connects it to the regular antenna even works. Have never seen my deck ever work on Dab, never picks up anything.
@@MMWA-DAVE I got two Kienzles. One is in w210 (no DAB), another one is in a garage (new in a box with DAB). So I haven't tried DAB yet..
@@igornikonov3187 let me know if you ever get dab working. I did not research if dab is different country to country, while i bought it from soundlabs in AU they are just german grey market imports. I’m not aware of them actually having AU specific version, or didnt back then anyway.
In Down Under UV would be harsh. Not good if it is parked outdoors day and day out. If it has done 250,000km it basically had paid back to it's owners the initial capital when new. Able to keep it anything more than 20 years is really a bonus! 🤔🤔
I have owned a 1987 and 1988 300E, and still have my 1990 300CE. I have also owned a 1998 E320 and still own a 2000E430 and 2001 E430 Sport. These are all US models. The W124 was unquestionably the last of the great Mercedes. My 300CE is now collectible. As you mention the automatic transmission in the W124’s are not the greatest. They have very little kickdown for passing. The other problem is passing emission tests as the engines get older. But the seats and ride are amazing, with thick leather that doesn’t age. On the other hand, I love the V8 M113 in both of my E430’s. These are seriously fast, and the transmission is superb. The W210 also feels contemporary even though they are over 23 years old. My dream would be to transplant the M113 engine and transmission in my 300CE. The W124 rules, but the W210 is far superior to any of the Mercedes built since.
Speaking of e39s, ever thought of buying a bmw project? Maybe an E34 stroked up to go with red
I’m gonna restore a 300CE-24 here in Portugal soon :)
Even though it is an automatic it does have the 722.5 gearbox, which although is not that famous for reliability it does give you more flexibility :)
The restoration should also include a complete swap from KE-Jetronic to EIS :)
We are thinking of installing the LH-Jetronic M104 3.2 we have spare in Tims blue 300e. I am keen to experience this challenge. Either with the original LH ecu and EZL or aftermarket ecu driving the injectors and coil directly
@@MMWA-DAVE From what I know the project on my side would ditch the whole EZL thingy as well, which would be a relief 😅
@@babybenz.190 yep, this is a commonly done thing. In our case the LH ezl’s seem to be much more reliable and are cheaper to obtain than the KE ones so not too concerned about using it.
Have a '95 E280...sounds coarse above 3000rpm/60 mph ..really needs a 5 th gear for cruising in comfort .
@MMWA-DAVE I'd really love to see what you think of a well kept, early W210 with M104 and without parameter steering. My 1996 E280 is exactly that. The steering is really heavy but fairly direct. The 722.5 five-speed transmission is perfect for Autobahn cruising. Engine speed sits at roughly 2400 rpm when travelling 120 kph. The only complaints I have about it is the fact that it sets off in 2nd gear and that its shifs are very abrupt, sometimes quite aggressively uncomfortable.
yeah have very limited experience with the 210. I have only ever driven 430’s. Here in australia our early m104 w210’s came with 722.3 and optionally 722.5 transmissions. I was shocked to learn all US spec m104 320’s had 722.6. Would be very interesting to drive any of them. Have driven late hfm 320 w124 with 722.5 and that was pretty cool so would be similar in the 210 id imagine.
btw i saw parameter steering on all the 430’s including my own. No idea how that affects the driving experience as dont have anything to compare it against
it pulls away in 2nd because you have the winter setting selected on the gearbox (W)........ select (S) for summer!
also put new oil in gearbox to increase fluidity of change ;)
@@richardwilson57 no that is not correct. The 722.5 gearbox always starts in 2nd gear no matter the selected program. There is the possibility to start from first gear but this has to be activated once the car has shifted from first into second. You might have the 722.5 and 722.6 mixed up. Two very different transmissions other than the fact that they both have "five" gears. The 722.5 naturally shifts "harder" than most more modern transmissions, including its successor. No oil change will change that. I have already done an oil change by the way
Out of curiosity, did Australia ever get M104 equipped cars with the dogleg Getrag gearbox, or was it just unavailable for that market?
I’ve never seen one if they did. Would love one.
@@MMWA-DAVE They look like a lot of fun to drive! I'd also love to own one some day, specially if it's a coupe, I think it's the perfect combo.
@@MMWA-DAVE I'm from Indonesia and my W124 E320 is 5 speed manual dogleg gearbox, in my country there is a lot of E320 W124 with 5 speed manual dogleg gearbox
Not much rust issues in Oz? W124 better in that area?
rust is no problem here on the 124’s. My 210 however does have the usual rust in the door seal rubbers channels at the bottom. Only 1 of them quite bad but ive treated it and painted with miracle paint now.
please tell me more about the gold insignia on the back of the w210........... im thinking of doing the same on my 2001 w210!
I dont know anything about it as it was done by a previous owner. I dont know if you can even get them anynore. I am binning all 3 pieces, the badge and both gold stars and going back to factory. The only piece in good condition is the rear star the other 2 are worn / not looking good anymore.
please sell them to me!@@MMWA-DAVE
Mi E320 W210 es del mismo color en su interior, pero mi volante es de madera y me gusta más, por fuera es dorado y en combinación con unos rines deportivos en color bronce se ve increíble 👍 🇲🇽🇲🇽
Find a Pedders suspension shop to do the alignment, EVERY time I've had a tyre shop do an alignment its been marginal... Pedders? Perfect :-)
How do you treat the sticky
the sticky what?
plastics, leather etc that was mentioned
I own a 1995 W124 E280. Love the car.
But i admire the interior of W210. The W211's interior looks cheap and lacking somehow, dont look luxurious.
I dont like W124's black, some wooden gearknobs and steering wheel though. It looks cheap and ugly. Unless its sports steering and combo gearknobs available in some W124s.
The rest of W124, superb.
Your w210 is a great car too but to me that steering wheel feedback on the w124 is the most desirable thing for driving experience.
Hello MMWA.
Nice comparison between the W124 and W210. I had both models at the same time 16 years ago, a 2000 W210 Avantgarde 220 CDI (Diesel powered) and my W124 500 E, the latter I still own. I'll not compare the engines or performances, the 500 E is on another planet compared to the tiny 220 CDI Diesel of the W210.
In terms of the driving experience, the W124 is much more interactive than the W210, the steering is way better, it corners better and it is more comfortable. For my height and weight, the seats of the W210 were a bit better but the steering wheel is a little of center, compared to the W124. The W210 has a lot more room inside, passengers in the rear seat have a lot more leg room, and also have air vents for the rear. The velour in the pillars and headliner are also more luxurious than the vinyl on the W124. In general, the cabin is way more modern than in the W124, with a lot of luxury touches that the W124 doesn't have. But it all comes with a price: the quality of the materials is way worse, my W124s don't make any rattle noise inside, the W210 with much less mileage was full of them. Reliability of the W124 is also MUCH better than the W210, I had several mechanical and electronic problems with mine. None of my W124s ever gave me a serious problem.
And the last thing: rust! Portugal has a nice climate, the cars here don't have problems with rust... None of my W124s has problems, but the W210 had and I bought new, always garage kept. So, for me, in quality and to keep all my life, W124s are the way to go 😊😊
Kind regards
you can swap the w210 dash into w124
Seriously ???? Wtf
@@sitirafifah3505 yes
No comparison the W124 is the last of the true Mercedes!
If only they kept up with moving the indicator to the correct side of the steering wheel. I absolutely hate indicators on the left. Skin crawls at the marketing phrase of “the best or nothing”
'Das Beste oder Nicht' ceased to apply in the mid-90s.
Built at different times with different objectives . The w124 was built to a standard newer Mercedes are built to a budget
For me, the W210 is in the wrong league.
Benzes built during the Decade of Decline (1995-2005), ruled over by Herr Professor Doctor Jurgen Schrempp, do not interest me one whit.
Its was for that decade that the company was run by bean counters rather than engineers, and it shows. The overall quality of the 210, 140, and 202 is nowhere near that of the 124, 126, and 201, and their reliability was less than that traditionally enjoyed by owners of earlier Benzes.
And I loathe cars that are over-assisted: no feel in the steering or brakes.
For me the last best Benzes were the 201, 124, and 126.