I was listening to a Norwegian podcast where Henrik Ingebritsen talked about the real reason that threshold training works so good for them is that it’s cause they’ve been doing it for a decade and when they started doing then they already had a high amount of training in they bodies. I think that’s something us hobby runners need to think about also.
Excellent summation.Ive always thought if one cant recover enough to do 2 double threshold days within 2 or 3 days then maybe the first double session has to be dialled down slightly.Lydiard probably told his guys to do 100+ miles a week because he knew in order for them to be able to do that mileage they'd need to be at the correct intensity.
Most runners have full time jobs and a family. They take priority. Quite right. Running should be an enjoyable experience, as well as an opportunity to challenge oneself. Full-time athletes are different. They have time to recover from hard sessions. Most of us don't have that luxury. My advice would be to build up a strong aerobic base. Strengthen your body through running (or walking) hills. Try to achieve a consistency of training backed with mobility work to avoid injuries. Run off-road where possible and do speed work on forgiving surfaces. Trying to train like the elite is folly. Know you limitations and work within them. However, there is always a chance that you have the physiological traits that enable you to excel beyond your expectations. If this is the case you have to decide on how much you are prepared to sacrifice to shave minutes (or seconds) of your PB. It's your journey. You decide.
It's an interesting idea, but not the easiest to implement for a number of reasons and probably not suitable for most people too. Getting the correct balance of easy/hard/harder miles is difficult at the best of times. Glad to hear the training with Will is going well!
Great video mate. I think the fundamental problem here is the understanding of "threshold". If you aren't measuring it using lactate and/or haven't had any lab testing to base the efforts off... you're really just guessing. This is fine if you're sensible, but means a lot of people end up doing 2 10k effort sessions and call them 'threshold'... not the same training effect!
Absolutely 💯 and as I was measuring by HR as i didn’t have a monitor I would suspect on some weeks I probably wasn’t quite hitting the right areas… it’s definitely such an important part of the process!
Have you considered the fact they've been doing double threshold for 10 years, it's taken a while for them to see the benefits so I wouldn't be expecting miracles after a few months
Oh yes absolutely, which is why I stayed in the video “15 weeks is effectively just one training block”. You often find when you switch up the stimulus from the norm that you can notice big things… as I am with my current training… I didn’t have this type of “jump” when I was doing double threshold 👍
An old club mate, a world class, Olympic hurdler once told me. 'Full time athletes aren't better because they train full time, it's because they recover full time!' When you took the training out his daily routine, it was, eh, almost lazy. Always stuck with me, if you found recovery hit and miss with one double threshold, why would two days be better? Unless you could adapt your routine to fit in with more recovery, you'd only double the time you felt very tired, at least. One day of it, if you can tolerate it, sounds like a good compromise if you want to try something different but maybe don't try it in a busy work week or kids half term, etc lol.
Late to the party but: Lesson 2, recovery should have been compared to your usual workout. The clustering and sub-LT of the double threshold should allow for better recovery as the strain on the body is much less than let's say one big interval session. Maybe your estimated threshold was too high? I do two double thresholds and two easy runs the following days with no problems. It was way harder back when I did 2 interval at faster than 10K race pace.
Not trying to sound rude, but if you felt you were losing or didn’t have a kick, why didn’t you add some 150s or 200s at the end of some of those sessions? Also, maybe instead of taking a day off after a double T, do an easy day and then take the day off two days after the double T. Any experiments with this?
Yeah there’s a few things I would tweak if I went back and did it again, that would be one of them… just finish the sesh off with 5 x 200m to spin the legs!
@@TheFODRunner Renato Canova said it’s not so much what you’re doing in training, but what you’re not doing in training. The Ingebrigstens also incorporate a healthy dose of hills in their training, not sure if you incorporate that into your training as well.
I didn’t at the time, it was very much standard longer intervals in the morning and then evening work was anything from 1 min reps up to 3 min reps and some with a good mix… but no hills or 30 second work
I was listening to a Norwegian podcast where Henrik Ingebritsen talked about the real reason that threshold training works so good for them is that it’s cause they’ve been doing it for a decade and when they started doing then they already had a high amount of training in they bodies. I think that’s something us hobby runners need to think about also.
A great point, and I totally agree 👏
Please link the podcast
Could you please link it @PerBarholm
"Average runner like myself", pretty sure the average time for a 10k is not 32:00 😂
Excellent summation.Ive always thought if one cant recover enough to do 2 double threshold days within 2 or 3 days then maybe the first double session has to be dialled down slightly.Lydiard probably told his guys to do 100+ miles a week because he knew in order for them to be able to do that mileage they'd need to be at the correct intensity.
Most runners have full time jobs and a family. They take priority. Quite right. Running should be an enjoyable experience, as well as an opportunity to challenge oneself. Full-time athletes are different. They have time to recover from hard sessions. Most of us don't have that luxury. My advice would be to build up a strong aerobic base. Strengthen your body through running (or walking) hills. Try to achieve a consistency of training backed with mobility work to avoid injuries. Run off-road where possible and do speed work on forgiving surfaces. Trying to train like the elite is folly. Know you limitations and work within them. However, there is always a chance that you have the physiological traits that enable you to excel beyond your expectations. If this is the case you have to decide on how much you are prepared to sacrifice to shave minutes (or seconds) of your PB. It's your journey. You decide.
Very sensible and sound advice 👍
It's an interesting idea, but not the easiest to implement for a number of reasons and probably not suitable for most people too. Getting the correct balance of easy/hard/harder miles is difficult at the best of times. Glad to hear the training with Will is going well!
Yeah it can be a tough one to balance… if done right, it could really propel you! But I’ll stick to my current training as it’s working better!
Great video mate. I think the fundamental problem here is the understanding of "threshold". If you aren't measuring it using lactate and/or haven't had any lab testing to base the efforts off... you're really just guessing. This is fine if you're sensible, but means a lot of people end up doing 2 10k effort sessions and call them 'threshold'... not the same training effect!
Absolutely 💯 and as I was measuring by HR as i didn’t have a monitor I would suspect on some weeks I probably wasn’t quite hitting the right areas… it’s definitely such an important part of the process!
Have you considered the fact they've been doing double threshold for 10 years, it's taken a while for them to see the benefits so I wouldn't be expecting miracles after a few months
Oh yes absolutely, which is why I stayed in the video “15 weeks is effectively just one training block”. You often find when you switch up the stimulus from the norm that you can notice big things… as I am with my current training… I didn’t have this type of “jump” when I was doing double threshold 👍
Hi everyone. For my job, I can´t do the double session trainnig but Like to Andy. Have a great monday.
Thanks!
With a max heart rate of 192, what heart rate range would you say I should strive for for these sessions?
Sorry I missed the Livestream on Fri. Ironically I was in England at the time for a race! Was only "up the road" near Peterbough 😂😂😂.
An old club mate, a world class, Olympic hurdler once told me. 'Full time athletes aren't better because they train full time, it's because they recover full time!' When you took the training out his daily routine, it was, eh, almost lazy. Always stuck with me, if you found recovery hit and miss with one double threshold, why would two days be better? Unless you could adapt your routine to fit in with more recovery, you'd only double the time you felt very tired, at least.
One day of it, if you can tolerate it, sounds like a good compromise if you want to try something different but maybe don't try it in a busy work week or kids half term, etc lol.
Very wise words from your club mate 👏
Late to the party but: Lesson 2, recovery should have been compared to your usual workout. The clustering and sub-LT of the double threshold should allow for better recovery as the strain on the body is much less than let's say one big interval session. Maybe your estimated threshold was too high? I do two double thresholds and two easy runs the following days with no problems. It was way harder back when I did 2 interval at faster than 10K race pace.
Yes very possibly… would definitely be open to dialling it back a bit if I did it again… I definitely pushed it too much I think
Blimey Andy, i wish i was as "average" at running as you! 😂 Are you running the Couriers 5k Wednesday?
Sadly not mate…. I haven’t entered any of them this year, I’m doing the rose inn race next week instead 👍
Shame you won't be there but good luck at the Rose Inn race; looks like a quick race
Not trying to sound rude, but if you felt you were losing or didn’t have a kick, why didn’t you add some 150s or 200s at the end of some of those sessions? Also, maybe instead of taking a day off after a double T, do an easy day and then take the day off two days after the double T. Any experiments with this?
Yeah there’s a few things I would tweak if I went back and did it again, that would be one of them… just finish the sesh off with 5 x 200m to spin the legs!
@@TheFODRunner Renato Canova said it’s not so much what you’re doing in training, but what you’re not doing in training.
The Ingebrigstens also incorporate a healthy dose of hills in their training, not sure if you incorporate that into your training as well.
I didn’t at the time, it was very much standard longer intervals in the morning and then evening work was anything from 1 min reps up to 3 min reps and some with a good mix… but no hills or 30 second work