THIS SHOW IS SO GOOD...Shogun 1x2 "Servant of Two Masters" | Reaction/Review
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- Опубліковано 1 лис 2024
- Shogun Season 1 Episode 2 we get even more interested and invested in Johns story with Toranaga Mariko and the Japans #reaction #shogun
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For me, as a huge history buff, this scene with the depiction of the Spanish and Portuguese zones of control is amazing. It showed very well what superpowers Spain and Portugal were in the 16th century after the Treaty of Zaragoza in 1529.
and Treaty of Tordesillas.
The subtle differences in the Japanese you hear compared to anime is the same difference between old English like Shakespeare and modern day English
Shakespeare is early modern English. Not even Middle English (1150-1500) and certainly not Old English (which is anglo-saxon).
@@DimetriKhan Yes, but notice that the OP didn’t write ”Old English”. Small ”O” old just means old. Which Shakespearian English certainly is compared to small "M" modern English. The original point stands: The writers (and the Japanese actors) worked hard with scholars on the language for it to be authentic to the era.
I would have hoped it was obvious. How did not one person say “ this show is set 400 years ago so language is obviously different “
I'm Japanese and I can't hear your conversations perfectly, so I'm sorry if you guys have already mentioned it.
If you are having trouble understanding Japanese history and geography, the official FX channel has a number of videos.
They explain the history and background, the world situation, etc., and do not spoil the drama.
It will be easier to understand if you watch them.
When he calls him ingles, it's like calling John English, as people, not to speak in english. In the first episode its like oh you're an Englishman.
I don't feel like you and the guys really understood what Carter meant, but I thought I guess almost the same thing when I was watching, in a sense that it would be weird to have a conversation in Portuguese, than "translate" it for the viewers into Engilsh, but leave the word "ingles" not translated, you know what I mean? And how much more sense it would make (for the first time watch of course before learning that it is indeed Portuguese all along) for them to have a conversation in actual English, but calling John "ingles" in his own language as a form of an joke/insult, the same way foreigners integrate their native languages' words into their speech here and there. The writers I don't think actually cared that much about the confusion it may cause, since I think this "ingles" moments are literally there just to emphasize that Rodrigues is spanish and doesn't hold John's nation too high, but the point still remains, his confusion is totally justified
@@alinaa3573 Finally someone who actually gets it.
@@alinaa3573 It still makes sense in the latter way even if they were speaking in Portuguese and he said 'Inglés' in Spanish.
Easily a top 3 GEK intro😂😂Bruh you guys killed me that shit had me dying “It’s like if we call Jack a name” zooms in on jack🤣He hit the why you say fuck me for?😂😂
Hey guys. Whenever you hear English spoken in the show it's "the common tongue between whichever Europeans are in the scene". I read the book back in the 80s and loved it. From the book, John Blackthorne is English, and he speaks Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese, and Latin as well.
Spoken English in the show is for American Audiences to not have to read a billion different languages in subtitles all the time. When a Westerner is speaking to other Westerners, they use English, even if in the book the language is something else.
In the beginning of last episode when he's talking with the captain of the ship, they're actually speaking in Dutch, because it was a Dutch ship that hired him as an English pilot. (Holland and England both being protestant naval countries, they were very close politically back then.) When he's talking with his crew, at any point in the show, he's speaking Dutch. Very, very little English would ever be spoken in the show because he is literally the only Englishman in the whole country for ALL of the plot.
But the show uses English whenever Westerner are speaking to other Westerners, just as a shorthand so that we don't get subtitle fatigue, since the book was written by an Englishman for English and American audiences, and the show was filmed specifically for Western media.
PS -
The reason (no spoilers) that people say it's a disappointment is because Shogun tells a fictional story about the political maneuvering that led to a very famous Japanese conflict, the Battle of Sekigahara. There are tons of films and stories about the Battle of Sekigahara itself. Includiing a 2017 film titled "Sekigahara". So the folks who watch Shogun without understanding the point of the novel being to demonstrate the political maneuvering that led up to the conflict, they get real disappointed that the series does NOT show the war itself. It would take another whole series to do that. Maybe now that they've decided to do a Season 2, they'll actually show the battle itself, but the first season tracks with the novel Shogun by James Clavell, an Englishman who spent a lot of time in East and Southeast Asia and genuinely loved the Eastern cultures and history. Season 1 stops before the battle, because that's where the novel stopped. So folks who say "it fell off at the end" didn't understand the point of the story in the first place was never going to focus on the war. Clavell wrote about politics and people, to introduce Western audiences to the Eastern cultures, warts and all. BUT, since they confirmed 2 more seasons, it means most likely that the war will happen in Season 2, and Season 3 will be the launching of the Edo Period of Japan, which is where we get all of our stereotypes about ronin and samurai geisha from. The 'stereotypical' Feudal Japan, all talking about the Edo Period, which is about to be born.
Enjoy with that. Level set your explanations. Big war payoffs likely won't happen until Season 2, if they go that route at all. In the meanwhile, watch Shogun, and then if you're frustrated at the end, react to the movie Sekigahara from 2017. Just understand that Clavell changed the names of actual historical figures for his novel, to grant him more artistic license for playing with reality to make a better story. So Yoshii Toranaga is actually Ieyasu Tokugawa. Mariko is based on Gracia Hasegawa, an actual historical Great Lady and convert of immense political importance. Blackthorne was based on real life William Adams, an Englishman who became Samurai during this period. Switch the names, and Sekigahara should make sense as an immediate "what happened after the end of Shogun S1?"
10:00 "It's an Island Kingdom"
Cannon: "He left out that it was an island"
About the language, all the English in the show is Portuguese they are just doing it in English for the viewers. So they don't speak any English in the show because the English is supposed to be Portuguese.
Adds confusion, but understandable.
Also the ship crew is Dutch to add another language to the mix 😂
@@mastermill79 yep 😂
This isn't an unusual writing device, to be fair. That said, the easiest way to 'get it', is:
The _actors_ are speaking English, but *_the characters_* are speaking Portuguese.
John Blackthorn was born in Britain, hence why he's an Englishman. That's why Rordriguez calls him Ingles (a Spanish term for Englishman at the time). He sailed under the banner of the Dutch King, so he's speaking Dutch to his crew. He also knows Spanish and Portuguese, which makes him a polyglot, as expected of naval captains / sea pilots in that era, since they go port to port in every country. That's the reason why he speaks several languages. He's also fluent in Latin.
SIDENOTE: Rodriguez is a Spaniard sailing under the Portuguese banner.
I watch a lot of anime (not that that makes me an expert on the Japanese language), and I wondered about the Japanese spoken in the show too. Mainly because when John said "thank you", he used katajikenai instead of something like arigato gozaimasu. So, I Googled what type of Japanese they speak in the show and found this answer: "it's actually 'jidaigeki Japanese' as spoken in Japanese period dramas, meaning pronounced like modern standard Japanese, but with some archaic/stereotypical vocabulary." There were also comments saying it's very formal. A comparison that came up quite a bit was that it's kinda the English equivalent of Shakespearean speech. Hopefully all of this is correct, since I got this information from a Google search and a few reddit threads talking about the Japanese used in the show.
One more thing, that intro was hilarious with Carter trying to explain himself and everyone thinking he didn't understand. 😂
そうです、そうです！
「KATAJIKENAI」は古い日本語で「ARIGATO」を意味します。
語源は「KATAJIKENASHI」という更に古語で、感謝だけでなく、自分の無力さを謙って伝えるニュアンスが含まれます。
相手からの優しさを受け入れる時に使い、厳格な人柄を感じさせる言葉です。
古語には純粋な感謝を表す「ARIGATASHI」という言葉もあります。それは恵みや幸運な状況を理解した感謝を意味します。
現代では「ARIGATO」が最もフランクな感謝の意味で使われます。相手が目上の人など友達ではない場合は「GOZAIMASU」を語尾につけると丁寧です。心から救われた時などは「ARIGATAI」を用いて、自分の無力さを謙り、外部の力への感謝を示すこともあります。
Shogun is loosely based on a real story of William Adams (John Blackthorne) but the scene when John draws the world on the sand was true and lil fun fact is that Toranaga became depressed and furious when he found out how small Japan was on the "map".
yay, finally some reactors who understand Johns motives are not any better than the Portugese.
Right. It’s as if people forget England also had colonies and wanted to expand their colonial grip on the world just as much as Portugal.
A lot of people don't apply any critical thinking, and are used to just having a story lead them around on a leash to each concept. A great many viewers automatically assume their main character is "the protagonist" hero. _Especially_ in a historical context like this, of a white man in a foreign land. _Surely he's not part of the problem!_
The Samurai’s design and skill in the crafting of the helmets and armour was incredible. Still my favourite warriors of all time 🙏even the weapons were unreal, and the time it took to craft some of those swords is a dedication in itself 🫡
Mariko is married to Hiromatsu's son, Buntaro, but she is not the heir's mother. The Heir's mother is Ochiba No Kata - a completely different person, who is currently in Toranaga's hometown of Edo (Tokyo).
This first 5 min of discussion made me think, *Oh yeah these guys are brothers* XDDD (mostly between Canon and Carter)
@27:55 Great catch, I did not notice this at first. The actress playing Mariko explained in an interview this version of Japanese is more archaic and poetic. Almost like Shakespearian English with a lot of thy's and thou's so to speak.
I was obsessed with this show when it was on and still am. It is brilliant. Every detail is perfect and historically accurate from the way they are walking to the tea service to the Japanese spoken. I can answer a few of yals questions I heard during the episode and hope its helpful!
I also wondered why some men had the top of their head shaved and some didnt so I looked it up - they shave their hair like that to help regulate heat when they have the helmets on. It seems like a preference and/or a wealthier samurai clan may have better made armor and helmets that let the heat escape and dont need to do that.
They want to impeach Toronaga from the council because they see him as a threat. He is very politically savy, has a large clan and many vassals loyal to him. He is also protecting the heir so it makes it harder to control him before and after he comes of age to rule. They didnt want him amassing too much power so they are fabricating evidence to remove him from playing the political game.
The taiko did have more heirs I can only assume, because the infant mortality rate was very high and none survived or he was infertile in some way. Toronaga on the other hand, has a lot lol
the dark mentions are getting me SO EXCITED
You should watch the video : "The World of Shōgun: History & Backstory | Shōgun | FX" to better understand shogun.
This will help you understand the story.
27:46 Good catch! You're right, the Japanese in the show _is_ different from what you're used to. They're speaking an older style of Japanese accurate to the time period the show is set in. You can think of it like the difference between Shakespearean English, and present day English.
They’re good looking!.!.
Anna Sawai is gorgeous & deserves all the awards. there was an actors on actors video with her & Tom Hiddelston and it is INCREDIBLE!!!
The most beautiful woman in the world 😭
Also the production deigner killed it in this show. Her and her team really made elaborate sets that made it feel like they actually shot in Japan somewhere.
4:06 "dejad de hablar por favor" 🤣
I can’t wait for you guys to watch the next episode 😁
it's almost like you knew I was bored or something
can't wait for the next episode!
Cosmo is so good-looking
It only gets better!
Cannon just wanted to argue lmaoooo that was too funny
Modern Japanese is not the same as the Japanese of 1600.
It is like Shakespeare's English.
In this drama, not only translators but also experts in old Japanese were involved in the writing of the script.
Not all of the Japanese of 1600 has been reproduced, but at least, no one uses the Japanese language used in dramas on a daily basis in modern Japan.
Some examples.
Thank you.
(modern)Arigatou gozaimasu.
(drama)Katajikenou gozarimasuru.
I understand.
(m)shochi shimashita.
(d)kokoroe mashita.
Forgive me.
(m)yurushite kudasai.
(d)goyosha kudasai.
We use "kokoroe mashita" and "goyosha kudasai" in written language yet.
i really need you guys to know that your videos help me with my english since it's my second language, spanish is my mother tongue :) listening you all try to say things in my language is fun ngl buen intento, sigan así jajajja
yo the intro was pure comedy lmaoooo
The Treaty of Zaragoza divided the world into two parts, Spain and Portugal, but it did not mean that they could control areas like Japan and China, which actually had advanced civilizations. It only means that they had equal trading relations.
Did the footsoldiers and sailors and privateers understand that nuance, or, just like todays frontline warriors they just went rawr rawr my country good yours bad! And simplified things in their minds.
@@SantosoWijaya im sure that many people from both factions used this treaty as an excuse for their own ends and "interpreted" it however they needed it^^
siempre hay un camino, tenemos que estar preparados my friend.
This show really is amazing.
You guys should watch the movie The Last Samurai. One of Tom Cruise’s best films imo and such a good story
I really wanted Carter at the end of the debate in the intro to just say "So just to clarify John Blackthorn is speaking English right" just to get everyone riled up 😂 honestly your conversations and jokes the best part of the reactions
"Servant of Two Masters" in my opinion, is in reference to Mariko ( servant of Toranaga and his god ) and Kashigi Yabushige ( servant of Toranaga and Ishido ) and there must be someone else
the Japanese they speak is "different"; Anna Sawai (Mariko) explained it in interviews as a comparison b/t English (as speak now) vs Shakespeare english
I understand you Carter😊
HAHAHAHA the intro lmfao
I have never laughed soo hard at the start of a video, The meltdown is insane XD
Just want to know if they'll guess who's *really* in control by the end.
27:51 Sougunの時代で使われてる日本語は古代の日本語なので、現代の日本語とは少し異なります！加えて、アニメの日本語はかなりカジュアルな口語の場合が多いので、さらに異なって聞こえると思います。ちなみに、日本人はこの時代の言葉は理解できます。でも、1000年以上前の時代の日本語はさらに異なるので、日本人でも完全に理解することは難しいです😂 なんとなくは理解できる。Yes. The Japanese used in this program is subtly different from modern Japanese. Both are Japanese. But the Japanese spoken here is old Japanese. Japanese from even older times is even more different from modern Japanese. In other words, language changes with the times. I think that's true in every country and culture. It's the same with English, isn't it? I heard that many Westerners who watched this program wondered whether we Japanese viewers could understand these old words. Yes, even adults can understand them almost perfectly. In Japanese schools, in addition to modern Japanese, classical Japanese is also studied as a compulsory subject. Period dramas have also been popular for a long time, and we naturally have many opportunities to come into contact with them on TV.
When Blackthorn talks to his crew, they are speaking Dutch because his crew is Dutch, but Blackthorn is English.
Rodrigues is a Spaniard who sails with a Portuguese crew and speaks Portuguese with them.
When Rodrigues and Blackthorn speak to the Japanese and each other they speak Portuguese and later Blackthorn learns Japanese and speaks Japanese with the Japanese. 🤦🏻♂️
For carter: Jon is an English man working for the Portuguese. Rodriguez is poking fun at him but they're still speaking Portuguese
He’s an Englishman working for the Dutch but knows how to speak Portuguese fluently.
@@tykohn thanks for correction
Ingles means Englishman. John is not Scottish or Welsh he is English.
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Awe man. - When every ep ends.
Rodriguez calls John "Englais" is because John is from England making him English... John is English therefore "Englais."
Carters just saying Rodriguez is calling him Ingles as a sort of "nickname", because John CAN speak English and IS an Englishman, not BECAUSE hes speaking English, and understands theyre not actually speaking English for the purposes of the story but is done for the sake of the show and ease of viewing.
inglés or spanish
😂
You guys need to watch pachinko, the season 2 comming out soon its so good
9:27 I never noticed that the pilot episode's name is "pilot" in Japanese ("Anjin"). Good one!
You know....John reminds me of Tom Hardy
LOL wow that opening!
In The Boys, they call the French guy Frenchie. (An English nick name)
In Shogun, Rodrigo calls the English guy Inglês (A Portuguese nick name)
K now put that thought aside, this is now a separate but related thought...
He simply thought the English being spoken was actual English but historically it would have been more Portuguese. THAT IS ALL.
Kinda annoying when someone tries to gaslights you and then says they are smarter than you when they don't get the most simple statement. That's English for you though.
The way they speak sounds different because the are speaking Japanese as it was actually spoken at the end of the 16th century. This show is barely understandable without subtitles for modern native Japanese speakers
BUT INGLES IS SPANISH! XD
Hobbit 1, 2, 3 we are waiting
They dropped the boys?
Did you give up on the boys 😊
English or Spanish?
" I don't feel like you can predict much in this show" Lol, talk about the climax ( or maybe I should say 'anticlimax'?)
Gays
Why Christian lord tried to kill Blackthorn? Because Catholic hated Protestant at that time, you know? There were another war among Christian in Japan.
you guys should watch attack on titan junior high schoo it's so fun l
I'm sorry, but I think this show got more publicity and evaluation than it deserved
I think Carter and Cannon will agree with me in the end
Thats the opinion of normies, who liked GoT Se 8.
@@SovermanandVioboy
And what does GOT have to do with this show?
I don’t tend to like these kind of shows but it seemed fine to me