Hello , happened to stumble onto Your videos by accident. Glad I did however. I can maybe shed a little light onto some of Your comments concerning the "Svit" Prayer Book. the "Russian Day Committee" was a side project of the "Russian Orthodox Catholic Mutual Aid society" in Wilkes Barre pa. This was a primarily Carpatho-Russian Organization to help the spread of Orthodoxy in America amongst the immigrants as well as a means of protecting their people. Tsar Nicholas II was a big supporter of the mission church in America and sent lots of money to aid this cause. He paid the Bishops , Priests and Cantors as well. St Alexis Tovt was involved in this as much as the clergy from Pa at the time. A leader and editor of their "Svit" newspaper was a well loved Priest named Father Peter Kohanik. He helped a lot of Uniate Churches return to Orthodoxy throughout Pennsylvania. He wrote a few cathechisms as well which were way more thorough than anything You can buy today. They were , however very anti Catholic and Protestant , which is why You do not see them reprinted today. These Svit prayerbooks were standard issue when I was a child. At First Holy Communion , and Yes , Orthodox Children did this years ago in America, these were given to the kids as a present. Boys got a black one and Girls got a white one. As for the Lord have Mercy litany at the near end of the Beattitudes , this was a common practice , not so much anymore, with Churches in Pennsylvania. I think , this came from Volhynia , Galicia Rule of Practice. This region is where most of the early "OCA" clergy were primarily from if not Slovakia as is my family. The OCA until 1970 was known as the "Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Metropolia of North America" until the name change to OCA. The English Translation was one of the earliest in America and very few Churches up until the late 1970's even did English. I learned the Liturgy in Slavonic and miss it dearly as well. The Singing Years ago was so much better than today. Old Babas and Cantors knew the melodies by Heart and taught us children as best they could. Mother of God is the same as "Theotokos". We never used that term til about 30 Years ago . It was always "Bohorodice". The orphan prayers were needed as many parents were killed in the Mines and other horrible jobs that the Slavic people had at the time. I hope this bit of info is helpful to You. I enjoy Your videos of Prayerbooks and I have just ordered the new St. Tikhon one due to Your video. By the way , if You collect prayer books , You must get the 3rd edition Old Believers from Erie , In my humble opinion , it is their best one. Slava Isusu Christu /Cлава Iсусу Xристу!
You, sir, are a legend! Thank you so much for you're insight! I absolutely love hearing your story, and hope to maybe pick your brain a bit more? Also, I'm glad you like the videos, and hope you enjoy your new prayer book!
I Thank You for the kind comments. If You have more questions , I can maybe try answering them . I may not know all the right answers though I will certainly be glad to help however I can.
Yes , this was common practice in Churches in Pennsylvania until the 1980's I believe. Mostly in the OCA and Carpatho-Russian Jurisdictions , of which must have been a Uniate carry over for some time. You must realize , most people didn't take communion then but on Pascha. A lot of things began to change in the 1970's an 80's. I am sure if You ask other cradle Orthodox in Your parish , You will find similar stories.
Started using this prayer book again recently. I’m drawn to it for some reason. I love it. I used it today at the Divine Liturgy and even though the wording is a little different, it is still very close. I go to an OCA perish.
Interesting! Never knew of this prayer book until your post on instagram. I don't think I'd get one simply because I have the Jordanville and the HTM prayer books, but I like the aesthetic (white hard bound cover and red page edges).
No doubt. As stated in the video, this can be more of a curiosity for modern orthodox, as it is the embryo from which the Jordanville book takes its form.
This is a wonderful prayer book and I like it a little better than the Jordanville. I much prefer the translation of Psalm 50 and many of the other prayers. It’s a personal preference and I use this prayer book frequently.
Regarding your comment at 9:34, transmute is the word used by Justin Martyr in the second century. In the synod also of Jerusalem, 1672, the synod used the words transmutate and transubstantiate to describe the Holy Eucharist, and defined what happens to the Holy Gifts with the same precision that is used in the Roman Catholic church.
I didn't realize what I had until I watched your review. Thanks and I'm enjoying your videos. A few observations as I have the 1959 Second Edition printed by "SVIT". It has a colored stamp in front from Met. Leonty thanking the owner for their donation to St. Mary's Convent in Accord, NY. It appears that perhaps your later version is different than my newer version: -About 11 decorative pages at end for hand-written notes (all pages of the book contain red and black); -The Akathistos to Our Holy Mother of God is in there but before the Molieben and The Panikhida; -The Hours at Easter are absent; -Prayers for various occasions is absent; -it has The Prayer Before The Amvon and not Tribune; -Thetokos is defined in Mornings Prayers (p. 14) and the word is used throughout the book but doesn't seem to appear in the Akathist. I'd love to use this book more but being so old it is too precious. When I was a Protestant minister I carried an original pocket 1928 Book of Common Prayer, but had to shelve it because of its antiquity. Keep up the good work brother. -bp
I do like this book too. To be fair there is a pre-communion rule in the back on page 266 but it's still much MUCH shorter then what you find something like the Jordanville prayer book and it's actually shorter than the one in 'little red'. It also seems to be a very accepted form of the pre-communion prayers because I found it referenced in the SVS 'A Manual of Eastern Orthodox prayers' ; it has a side note that (if you don't have time for all 12 prayers of the Saints) you can do prayer 1, 8, 11 and 12, These are the exact same prayers in the Svit with the exception of one. So apparently when both of these books were published around the 1950s this shorter pre-communion rule was completely standard. I don't really know when or why the switch was made to make pre-communion rules monastic levels of length and difficulty but we should probably go back to the acceptable shorter forms, people would commune more often. Infrequent reception of the Eucharist is a huge problem in Slavic churches that should really be addressed, not expecting a monastic level of prayer from lay people is probably a good start.
I couldn't agree more. One point that I very briefly mentioned, and will be part of another episode focusing on this, is the modern drive by new orthodox to keep a monastic rule, based solely on what is in print, without the guidance of a spiritual father. My priest was very clear with me when I was a catechumen that we are not monks, and though reading such a rule is commendable, we should stick to a simple, manageable rule that doesn't overburden us.
The prayer rule of HTM and almost all the Russian books are the same 7 bow beginning prayers - 3 canons plus Akathist, and then canon of preparation and finally the pre communion prayers that are basically the SVIT ones. The full preparation is not monastic at all but is normative for all Orthodox Christians - monastic and lay and clerical.
@@Ar-Rahman61 It's really not though. I personally own 4 different ROCOR prayer books, approved by Bishops that all have different pre-communion prayers, some very short, some the basic 12 prayers of the Saints, some significantly more. There is no concrete normative pre-communion rule. The closest thing we have to that would be the 12 prayers of the Saints; but even then a lot of prayer books don't contain all 12. The prayer of St. John Chrysostom is the only one that is a MUST.
After 41 years in ROCOR I can only say I have never heard any bishop or priest instruct us to say anything less than the full 7 bow introduction plus the canon to Our Lord, Mother of God, Guardian Angel and Akathist plus Canon for Communion and THEN the pre communion prayers, with these latter being done in Sunday morning before hours
re: 9.30 transmuting is indeed an interesting translation of the Russian претворять/претворить, which is a literary form to describe the process of changing something into something else.
Transmuting is a term I have seen in translations of St. Justin Martyr's Apology, where he talks about the elements becoming Christ's true body and blood through transmutation or something along those lines. Not sure about the original words these are translating, but it is interesting there is somewhat of a precedent for the word based on older translations of the Fathers into English.
Monsieur, not sure what you meant by saying that the right side is "not" Church Slavonic, but Old Russian. It looks like Church Slavonic to me. I am not expert, but I think that is the case. Also, if you take your Hapgood translation, you will see that she also puts the petition just before the end of the Beatitudes, but I am not sure why. Did you find out? Thanks....Stephan
Are the prayers the same as the jordanvile. Not the translation. But the actual prayers. More specifically are the morning and evening prayers the same??
@@OrthodoxReview Not tying to be rude. Just that I read and pray in church Slavonic and that is it. Plus on the websites that sell it it says that it is church Slavonic. Not try to be a wise a**. But that is what it is.
@@OrthodoxReview many Slavs have a tendency to call Slavonic “old Russian” or “old Serbian”, because it essentially is the predecessor to those languages. I myself after reading it, it is clear that it is indeed Slavonic.
I prefer the SVIT to Jordanville simply because the Jordanville over the years added prayers which are nice but become onerous when one is a layman just trying to keep a rule. To me the order of prayers flow better and it is not a burden. Plus I like the parallel Slavonic which I sometimes read. Other than that the English is strange at times & it doesn't have any canons (+ why is it that most prayer books feel they need to include the divine liturgy?)
ваша неточность информации поражает при всем уважении, а День России отмечается 12 июня. День России отмечается с 1992 года и отмечает годовщину провозглашения Российской Республикой (РСФСР) своей автономии от Советского Союза...
Hello , happened to stumble onto Your videos by accident. Glad I did however. I can maybe shed a little light onto some of Your comments concerning the "Svit" Prayer Book. the "Russian Day Committee" was a side project of the "Russian Orthodox Catholic Mutual Aid society" in Wilkes Barre pa. This was a primarily Carpatho-Russian Organization to help the spread of Orthodoxy in America amongst the immigrants as well as a means of protecting their people. Tsar Nicholas II was a big supporter of the mission church in America and sent lots of money to aid this cause. He paid the Bishops , Priests and Cantors as well. St Alexis Tovt was involved in this as much as the clergy from Pa at the time. A leader and editor of their "Svit" newspaper was a well loved Priest named Father Peter Kohanik. He helped a lot of Uniate Churches return to Orthodoxy throughout Pennsylvania. He wrote a few cathechisms as well which were way more thorough than anything You can buy today. They were , however very anti Catholic and Protestant , which is why You do not see them reprinted today. These Svit prayerbooks were standard issue when I was a child. At First Holy Communion , and Yes , Orthodox Children did this years ago in America, these were given to the kids as a present. Boys got a black one and Girls got a white one. As for the Lord have Mercy litany at the near end of the Beattitudes , this was a common practice , not so much anymore, with Churches in Pennsylvania. I think , this came from Volhynia , Galicia Rule of Practice. This region is where most of the early "OCA" clergy were primarily from if not Slovakia as is my family. The OCA until 1970 was known as the "Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Metropolia of North America" until the name change to OCA. The English Translation was one of the earliest in America and very few Churches up until the late 1970's even did English. I learned the Liturgy in Slavonic and miss it dearly as well. The Singing Years ago was so much better than today. Old Babas and Cantors knew the melodies by Heart and taught us children as best they could. Mother of God is the same as "Theotokos". We never used that term til about 30 Years ago . It was always "Bohorodice". The orphan prayers were needed as many parents were killed in the Mines and other horrible jobs that the Slavic people had at the time. I hope this bit of info is helpful to You. I enjoy Your videos of Prayerbooks and I have just ordered the new St. Tikhon one due to Your video. By the way , if You collect prayer books , You must get the 3rd edition Old Believers from Erie , In my humble opinion , it is their best one. Slava Isusu Christu /Cлава Iсусу Xристу!
You, sir, are a legend! Thank you so much for you're insight! I absolutely love hearing your story, and hope to maybe pick your brain a bit more? Also, I'm glad you like the videos, and hope you enjoy your new prayer book!
I Thank You for the kind comments. If You have more questions , I can maybe try answering them . I may not know all the right answers though I will certainly be glad to help however I can.
Wait Orthodox first communion as a child and not a baby was a thing? Please enlighten us!
Yes , this was common practice in Churches in Pennsylvania until the 1980's I believe. Mostly in the OCA and Carpatho-Russian Jurisdictions , of which must have been a Uniate carry over for some time. You must realize , most people didn't take communion then but on Pascha. A lot of things began to change in the 1970's an 80's. I am sure if You ask other cradle Orthodox in Your parish , You will find similar stories.
Well, if it's not too late, I want to know why this is not only in pre-revolutionary Russian orthography, but actually pre-Petrine.
Started using this prayer book again recently. I’m drawn to it for some reason. I love it. I used it today at the Divine Liturgy and even though the wording is a little different, it is still very close. I go to an OCA perish.
It's the ancestor
God bless. Thank you. Your 'want a copy' link is of a 'Not found' variety.
Dang
They have this and the jordanville at my church bookstore i am unsure which one i should get though.
The SVIT is a great book, and has lots of curious older traditions, but, for the sake of practicality and readability, I'd go with the Jordanville.
Every member of my father’s family had one of those. I had one myself.
Interesting! Never knew of this prayer book until your post on instagram. I don't think I'd get one simply because I have the Jordanville and the HTM prayer books, but I like the aesthetic (white hard bound cover and red page edges).
No doubt. As stated in the video, this can be more of a curiosity for modern orthodox, as it is the embryo from which the Jordanville book takes its form.
This is a wonderful prayer book and I like it a little better than the Jordanville. I much prefer the translation of Psalm 50 and many of the other prayers. It’s a personal preference and I use this prayer book frequently.
Are the prayers the same as the jordanvile
Regarding your comment at 9:34, transmute is the word used by Justin Martyr in the second century. In the synod also of Jerusalem, 1672, the synod used the words transmutate and transubstantiate to describe the Holy Eucharist, and defined what happens to the Holy Gifts with the same precision that is used in the Roman Catholic church.
The word St Justin Martyr uses is μεταβολή. But I do agree that 'transmute' is perfectly orthodox English in this context.
I didn't realize what I had until I watched your review. Thanks and I'm enjoying your videos.
A few observations as I have the 1959 Second Edition printed by "SVIT". It has a colored stamp in front from Met. Leonty thanking the owner for their donation to St. Mary's Convent in Accord, NY.
It appears that perhaps your later version is different than my newer version:
-About 11 decorative pages at end for hand-written notes (all pages of the book contain red and black);
-The Akathistos to Our Holy Mother of God is in there but before the Molieben and The Panikhida;
-The Hours at Easter are absent;
-Prayers for various occasions is absent;
-it has The Prayer Before The Amvon and not Tribune;
-Thetokos is defined in Mornings Prayers (p. 14) and the word is used throughout the book but doesn't seem to appear in the Akathist.
I'd love to use this book more but being so old it is too precious. When I was a Protestant minister I carried an original pocket 1928 Book of Common Prayer, but had to shelve it because of its antiquity.
Keep up the good work brother.
-bp
That is so rad! Thanks for sharing!
I do like this book too.
To be fair there is a pre-communion rule in the back on page 266 but it's still much MUCH shorter then what you find something like the Jordanville prayer book and it's actually shorter than the one in 'little red'.
It also seems to be a very accepted form of the pre-communion prayers because I found it referenced in the SVS 'A Manual of Eastern Orthodox prayers' ; it has a side note that (if you don't have time for all 12 prayers of the Saints) you can do prayer 1, 8, 11 and 12, These are the exact same prayers in the Svit with the exception of one. So apparently when both of these books were published around the 1950s this shorter pre-communion rule was completely standard. I don't really know when or why the switch was made to make pre-communion rules monastic levels of length and difficulty but we should probably go back to the acceptable shorter forms, people would commune more often. Infrequent reception of the Eucharist is a huge problem in Slavic churches that should really be addressed, not expecting a monastic level of prayer from lay people is probably a good start.
I couldn't agree more. One point that I very briefly mentioned, and will be part of another episode focusing on this, is the modern drive by new orthodox to keep a monastic rule, based solely on what is in print, without the guidance of a spiritual father. My priest was very clear with me when I was a catechumen that we are not monks, and though reading such a rule is commendable, we should stick to a simple, manageable rule that doesn't overburden us.
The prayer rule of HTM and almost all the Russian books are the same 7 bow beginning prayers - 3 canons plus Akathist, and then canon of preparation and finally the pre communion prayers that are basically the SVIT ones. The full preparation is not monastic at all but is normative for all Orthodox Christians - monastic and lay and clerical.
@@Ar-Rahman61 It's really not though.
I personally own 4 different ROCOR prayer books, approved by Bishops that all have different pre-communion prayers, some very short, some the basic 12 prayers of the Saints, some significantly more.
There is no concrete normative pre-communion rule. The closest thing we have to that would be the 12 prayers of the Saints; but even then a lot of prayer books don't contain all 12.
The prayer of St. John Chrysostom is the only one that is a MUST.
After 41 years in ROCOR I can only say I have never heard any bishop or priest instruct us to say anything less than the full 7 bow introduction plus the canon to Our Lord, Mother of God, Guardian Angel and Akathist plus Canon for Communion and THEN the pre communion prayers, with these latter being done in Sunday morning before hours
re: 9.30 transmuting is indeed an interesting translation of the Russian претворять/претворить, which is a literary form to describe the process of changing something into something else.
Hi, thank you for your work...how can you compare with the Old Orthodox Prayer Book ?
Apples and oranges
@@OrthodoxReview is the orthodox prayer better then the SVIT, I'm looking to by one?
@@GFSHS3 not sure what you mean
Transmuting is a term I have seen in translations of St. Justin Martyr's Apology, where he talks about the elements becoming Christ's true body and blood through transmutation or something along those lines. Not sure about the original words these are translating, but it is interesting there is somewhat of a precedent for the word based on older translations of the Fathers into English.
The copyrights 1959. My copy is 3rd printing 1975
Cool
Mine too. I use it every day. I love it. Great little prayer book.
Monsieur, not sure what you meant by saying that the right side is "not" Church Slavonic, but Old Russian. It looks like Church Slavonic to me. I am not expert, but I think that is the case. Also, if you take your Hapgood translation, you will see that she also puts the petition just before the end of the Beatitudes, but I am not sure why. Did you find out? Thanks....Stephan
Thanks for doing this, now I have to watch all your other videos. The online Orthodox bookstores are gonna be sad I'm not buying blindly anymore :((
Lol
I've been considering purchasing either the "Svit" prayer book, or the Jordanville Prayer book, which one would you personally recommend?
Jordanville
Thanks!
Are the prayers the same as the jordanvile. Not the translation. But the actual prayers. More specifically are the morning and evening prayers the same??
Also for those who don't know this is a Slavonic prayer book. Although Ralph said it was old Russian. It ain't. 😂
Tell that to the publisher. It's clearly stated on the title page that it's from the old Russian, and not Church Slavonic.
@@OrthodoxReview Not tying to be rude. Just that I read and pray in church Slavonic and that is it. Plus on the websites that sell it it says that it is church Slavonic. Not try to be a wise a**. But that is what it is.
🤷♂️
@@OrthodoxReview many Slavs have a tendency to call Slavonic “old Russian” or “old Serbian”, because it essentially is the predecessor to those languages. I myself after reading it, it is clear that it is indeed Slavonic.
I prefer the SVIT to Jordanville simply because the Jordanville over the years added prayers which are nice but become onerous when one is a layman just trying to keep a rule. To me the order of prayers flow better and it is not a burden. Plus I like the parallel Slavonic which I sometimes read. Other than that the English is strange at times & it doesn't have any canons (+ why is it that most prayer books feel they need to include the divine liturgy?)
I would imagine the Liturgy is included because it was not necessarily in English at the time, and was a way to teach the faithful what was happening.
@@OrthodoxReview it's still in many modern though. IMO prayer books should be prayer books, liturgical books liturgical books
Agreed
My copy is also 1959
sveta means white in sanskrit. truly this is the sveta prayer book :D
Christos anesti
Good asmr
Thanks?
ваша неточность информации поражает при всем уважении, а День России отмечается 12 июня. День России отмечается с 1992 года и отмечает годовщину провозглашения Российской Республикой (РСФСР) своей автономии от Советского Союза...
в данном случае «Русский день» - это название организации, изначально создавшей книгу.