My favourite thing about this portrayal racism is that, instead of just repeating that racism is bad, it shows that racism is stupid. These kids couldn't even walk on their own at first, there's no way they can survive in the wilderness. Yet they throw away the one person who's proven that he is intelligent and could genuinely help them all because of the colour of his skin
Also, they managed to showcase it without calling it by name. Sometimes visual displays are more compelling than words. And not acknowledging it with words forces the audience to ponder. That is to actually think about it without the actors verbally spelling it out for them.
I think, up to this moment, the Doctor was obviously expecting *something*. He was happy and content to regenerate as a black man - jubilant, even - but he was still expecting obstacles, especially if he wanted to go back in time on Earth. But the fact that racism *actively prevented* him from doing the one thing he truly loves doing and truly wants to do, saving lives, and he didn't see it coming... I feel like it broke a small part of him. It was such a heartbreaking moment in so many ways and a magnificent performance by Gatwa.
This was the moment I fully accepted Ncuti as the new Doctor. The sheer ability to convey all the emotions and feelings of the Doctor in that moment was amazing.
@@NB-up2eb Actually, it was the first scene NCUTI ever filmed for the series. Coming from The Giggle and he instantly embodies a new take on the Doctor. The first time in their three thousand year life that the Doctor couldn't save someone due solely to their appearance and Ncuti perfectly captures that unique, alien dismay.
The best part of that story is the realization that the computer got so fed up with having to listen to the vapid stupidity of the Finetime residents that it finally snapped, decided they were all horrible, prejudiced people and turned homicidal because it just couldn’t stand having to listen to them anymore
Doesn't answer the question why an AI designed by prejudiced people would be able to recognize that they were prejudiced, since the only environment it would have to learn from is the prejudiced one. Seems more like it would be set up to become all of their evil in one spot.
@@MegaAstroFan18the AI could still be prejudiced, we know Finetime’s security systems kept The Doctor locked out. It’s likely that the AI had no issue with the racism and just hated them for being vapid egotists constantly talking nonsense and doing stupid stuff all day whilst the AI was forced to help them complete the most menial of tasks
@@MegaAstroFan18 more to the point how was it able to manufactured living, self-aware organic slugs to hunt and kill these people in alphabetical order? My guess the home plan is that created fine time was at war with somebody else and they help created the slugs to wipe out the space third rich.
“That’s voodoo.” And that’s the moment a good chunk of the audience, myself included, had a trippy flashback sequence where they realised everyone in Finetime was white. Well played, everyone involved with this episode… well played.
"They wouldn't let me save them," The Doctor despaired aloud. "These people with limited minds dependent & obedient to their technology that they didn't even question what was happening until it was too late." "Where did you say this place was again?" The Master asked, jotting down notes.
"Technology, you say? Please go on," The Rani mused, looking over The Master's shoulder to make sure she gets the spelling right. "Dependent and obedient? Please continue," The Eleven sneered, all of his past lives in agreement in what was to be done. "Their God given rights, they say? How apt," The Meddling Monk chuckles, fully planning to steal one of the Master's notes so he can get there first.
The look she gives him as she sails away is so cold. That’s not a look of remorse or inner conflict. That’s a look of smug superiority. In her mind, she defeated the Doctor, and she’s very proud of herself
Thinking she defeated him would be giving him too much credit from her perspective. Remember that racists are sub-human trash who view everyone else the way that they actually are. To defeat him she would need to think he ever posed any kind of threat or was in some way above her to be brought down by her. No, she was... honestly to me it looked like she MIGHT have been briefly questioning her smug hatred, but ultimately deciding she's right to think he's too beneath her to warrant any further response at all. But basically, no, she doesn't think she defeated him. She thinks an annoying bug is shouting at her and possibly is briefly questioning whether he might be more than a bug.
To think she "defeated" him would mean she had to think he was ever any threat to her. She views him as beneath her, and one just ignores those they view as beneath them.
My heart really broke for the Doctor, it really goes to show how kind and compassionate he is that DESPITE how awful these people are he still wants to save their lives but because of their prejudice they'd rather go to their inevitable deaths than be saved by a black man... and lemme tell you I have NEVER hated a character in Doctor Who as much as I hate Lindy! And Ncuti Gatwa absolutely knocks it out of the park with his performance and to think this was the first scene he filmed as the Doctor post-The Giggle? Talk about throwing him into the deep end but wow! He IS the Doctor and I hope he sticks around for a long time to come, he is phenomenal!
Aunque recordemos que el doctor no siempre fue asi el tambien fue racista y critico sobre los seres humanos antes de haberse vuelto sabio y compasivo con los demas.
Especially when you consider the fact that this was his first day on set filming for the series (even before The Giggle) while he was still finishing up on Sex Education season 4. Even Russell said if they should delay filming this scene because the context would be something hard hitting for someone like Ncuti who no doubt endured similar attitude from people like Lindy in his early life before and after he and his family escaped the Rwandan genocide. A terrifically performed scene and Ncuti in general is a fantastic actor.
It definitely is! And Millie‘s performance is great too from the „I can’t even…“ to her restraint at letting the Doctor have his space in his outburst when she clearly so wish she could just drag him away from those horrible people.
The fact that it was also his first day filming this season, only to find out that his first scene on set was being him being rejected by a bunch of bigoted, idiotic characters. Then gives a hell of a performance
That's honestly extremely uncomfortable tbh. Imagine finally getting to play such a role, and then the showrunner is like "So, your first scene is purely 'inspired' by your complexion, have fun with it!" Added with Christopher Eccelsston's series 1 complaints of bad on-set moments of ick, and it just rubs the wrong way.
So yes, Ncuti's performance in this scene 10/10 right, can't ignore that. I wanna talk about the Doctor's offer to come with him (ALL of them), just once I want this offer to be taken up and we just see like 100 people walking through the TARDIS doors like it's a clown car and the cuts to the console room packed to the gills with people, then the Doctor struggling to pilot away because there's so many people.
Millie is brilliant in this scene, with the way she acts so anxious. Want to know why that's brilliant? Because Ruby realises that there is no possible way the Doctor can 'just save' the Finetimers under ANY conditions, and it's visibly tearing her apart inside that she can't say a word or the Finetimers might get... ideas.... Because The Doctor, at this exact moment... is one man, talking to a sizable group of people... who see different as dangerous. The only thing saving The Doctor here is the fact that the Finetimers never realized/believed that he has a machine that can go anywhere in time and space.
I will also add Callie Cooke, Lindy’s actress, does a great job going from someone we were rooting for in the episode to completely hating her guts even before the racism
This has to be the most depressing ending to a DOCTOR WHO story that I've ever seen. They'd rather risk certain death in an unknown wilderness than "contaminate" themselves with outsiders. 😞😥😭
It wasn't just outsiders, it was because they were racist. Look earlier in the story and see how they react to the doctor versus millie. Big difference in reaction.
Here's another worrying thought... What if they had followed him into the TARDIS, saw all the technology that more advanced than they could possibly imagine, and then they saw... that the only obstacle between them and that technology... was a man that they really didn't like? +As depressing as this ending was, it was sadly the only possible outcome.+
@@tomstanziola1982 Its societies fault for not teaching everyone about things like this in fairness, but you're welcome! I didn't realise first time either, but after watching a second time... it was really obvious. I just thought they were classist or some other kind of bigotry.
When does Ncuti get his award? In one scene, he proved that despite this being a Doctor-lite episode, it's still his show. The fact that this was his first scene as THE Doctor is amazing. Ncuti is a brilliant Doctor.
Ncuti's acting in this moment is excellent. That elevated the episode from a 7 to an 8 / 10 for me, especially when you take into account the excellent social commentary. Oh, we are SO back!
When the Doctor experiences specism because of anti-Time-Lord bigotry, his response has sometimes been, "You have a point but I'm not like that" (most obviously the 8th incarnation in "The Night of the Doctor")
It’s not the first time the Doctor experienced racism. The Eighth Doctor’s would-be companion Cass rejected him when she found it he was a time lord (the night of the Doctor).
What makes this special is how self-defeating their brand of racism is. A lot of portrayals of racism focus on trauma and hate, but this scene highlights the completely unearned sense of superiority that motivates a group of rich kids to throw away their best chance of survival in the most smug and senseless way possible. The Doctor cries as he watches these idiots destroy themselves for literally no legitimate reason.
@@spaceboomer564 Indeed. Again the comparison with Cass is interesting: she *knew* that she's extremely unlikely to survive without the Doctor's help. The Finetimers actualy deceived themsleves into thinking they can make it in the wild... (Also, Cass was actually right to hate and fear the Time Lords; by this time, they'd become a menace to the universe. The Doctor was an exception, but she had little reason to know that. She was still wrong about him, of course, but she wasn't entirely wrong about his people)
While Dot and Bubble isn't a favourite of mine, the ending is outstandingly brilliant, especially Ncuti's phenomenal performance. As for the aspects of racism, I was shocked upon learning about it on social media after watching the episode on iPlayer. Not to mention that I didn't understand the true nature of "contaminated" at first.
seriously i did not get a lot of the nuances watching as a non-UK viewer. I blitzkrieged my way watching the entire season and only know, after reading comments start to realise lol
@@RandomRoss even if Ricky was still racist he had the best chance to grow beyond it. Of all the colony characters he was the only one who showed a curiosity and willingness to accept ideas that were beyond his world view.
@@RandomRossHe was clearly supposed to be the character, who was not like the others. Even from a story telleing stand point it'd only make sence that he is the contrast to the other finetimers. He only used the bubble to make his songs and imidiatly after broke free from this echochamber. The connection that the only finetimer who didn't use the bubble was the only nice one is clearly the device to show the actual problem, the bubble/echochamber.
@@diamant_2dot0I see what you mean but I disagree. Ricky chose to live in Finetime and is perhaps the only one there who understands the history of the place. In that way I could see him being even more evil than the other more naïve rich kids. From a meta stand point, he represents the viewers who think it's important for the Doctor to be a white man. Ricky is white superiority incarnate.
This is one of the few scenes from anything ever that actually gave me chills..when I realized they were all probably gonna die because of such unfounded prejudice
I like how even though they were arrogant he still wanted to save them. It not The Doctors fault if they did out there. He did everything he could to saved them and did it. He also give them an opportunity to go in the Tardis and find a different world. He give them a choice and they didn’t take it.
This was probably the most pissed i’ve been at a Doctor Who ending since Midnight. Also, praise the anti-racist slugs - they were doing the galaxy a service.
You have to admire how PATIENT the Doctor tries to be with Lindy and the Finetimers. I mean, look at all his experiences with Davros and the Daleks, who are also products of an intolerant, xenophobic culture and nearly destroyed the multiverse!
This was Ncuti Gatalwa's first ever day of filming, and they were not sure if they should start his time as the Doctor like this and move it back to let him get into his comfort zone, but he nailed. When I first warched this, i didn't quite it, but then on second viewing, it was stairing us in the face why she kept swiping him to one side, why she only listen to Ruby had to say.
I can totally imagine this happening if widespread space colonization becomes a thing. Every radical and bigoted group that currently infests our current society is gonna want to find their own planet and make new societies based entirely on their awful beliefs and open bigotry.
It's prioritizing race over characterization that's perpetuating that division. This is a proper scene that uses race to explore characterization rather than undermine it. Showing the the Doctor's selflessness and heroism, being so desperate to help and save people even when he knows they're never going to thank him, that they see him as lesser because of something so arbitrary. They're racist monsters yet he refuses to stoop to their level, refusing to respond to their hatred with more hatred.
Their ignorance is on a whole other level because the Doctor even explained that theTARDIS has "technology" which makes it bigger on the inside and they talk about "vodoo magic". Also thinking they could tame the wilderness and survive there even so some of them most likely didn´t know how to act on their own without the bubble like Lindy did in the beginning. They barely survived slow moving slug-monsters with help and who knows what´s out there? Long story short, I never hoped for instant bad karma as for those people.
@@joso7228 Well, if they rather face the possibility of death in the wilderness instead of swallowing their pride and take the help it seems unavoidable no matter how you look at it.
@@joso7228The doctor tried and they refused him. He can't force the to come with him. That's the whole "the doctor can't choose who lives and who dies" thematic because "using such power would make him a monster"
@@joso7228 He could have gone after them, materialised the tardis around them and forcefully brought them to safety. But like I said, this would make him a monster too. He literally would have taken their freedom of choice, their freedom in general and their dignity away from them. In this case to him they wouldn't have been people anymore. They would have been objects he just had to relocate so they wouldn't get eaten by the slugs. Like Captain Brook said in The Waters of Mars, noone should have that power. The doctor has this power but the whole timelord victorious arc shows what it does to him, when he uses it. They chose to ignore him, knowing very well what fate they would meet. I'm sure the doctor didn't want to respect that but he HAD to.
Lindy is truly THE most hateable character throughout all of Doctor Who. Davros might be evil, but Lindy is FAR more hateable. Kudos to her actor for making her THE most vile soul to ever cross The Doctor's path. Sutekh can have her. Leave her death un reversed. The universe is better off without her. As for "that's voodoo" girl? Voodoo? You LITERALLY heard them say less than 2 minutes ago it was technology. How flicking thick are Finetime people that they hear something called one thing, then assume it's something totally different? The Doctor really should've just left them alone, not bothered. Only one of them was worth saving and none of them were it
The only criticism I’d have of this is that while it’s very well and good The Doctor suffering racist abuse, it’s never expanded on? Ruby and The Doctor’s relationship isn’t deepened by her trying to comfort him? You get whiplash by going from that to “Haha gay Bridgerton!”
Honestly I feel this episode should've had a few more minutes with the Doctor and Ruby having a chat in the TARDIS, honestly in general this series needed more TARDIS scenes, we barely see the Doctor and Ruby in it, what's up with that? That's probably my biggest issue with this series (And I really enjoyed this series!)... it might seem like a small thing but the TARDIS is the Doctor's home but we barely see that in this series.
Welcome to Doctor Who. The backbone of the show is having each episode to its own new adventure. Yes, there is continuity between episodes (a loose continuity, but continuity nevertheless) but for the most part the show thrives off each new story being its own thing. The show didn't even do season arcs (sort of) until over 40 years into its existence, and even then most episodes can standalone as their own adventure with the exception of the finales usually. What you're asking for fundamentally goes against what's allowed the show to stay popular for so long.
Strongest moment of the 15th doctor, if not all of modern DW! Also, in our faces! Yes, in many of us fans' faces, looking at the opposition to several recent doctors and companions got.
Such a great scene for Ncuti, not only showing off the kindness of his incarnation in the face of terrible people, but their prejudice overshadows logic. For me this is the ending of Idiot's Lantern done right.
One of the most unexpected endings to an episode for me! As a fan, I genuinely never imagined this kind of outcome for an episode. I was gobsmacked! Ncuti’s performance was spot on.
I struggle with this scene because as much as I HATE how disgusting they were to the Doctor, the performances my GOD, they're golden. Ncuti, Millie, Callie, they absolutely sold this scene.
I really thought the Doctor would materialise the TARDIS around them to shut their stupid faces up but they went for an emotional end when there was no emotion from the audience for that terrible woman
This is basically that one episode of Kitchen Nightmares where Gordon Ramsay gives up on a restaurant for the first time ever because the owners are that stubborn and in denial
Ok so I haven't caught up to series 14 yet, but holy crap my impression are insanely high. This scenes showing of how absurd bigotry can get is so heartbreaking and I legit can't wait to see Ncuti's performance in this series
This paragraph from a review by Polygon's Joshua Riviera was so good that I want to share it here on the pertinent clip: "Up until now, _Doctor Who_ has been pretty unconcerned with how the Doctor taking on the appearance of a Black man might change the dynamic of the show. On the one hand, this is understandable, desirable even - it would be crass and arguably retrograde to immediately subject the Doctor to racism the moment it became a possible story outcome. It also feels intellectually dishonest to act as if it would _never_ matter. [Russell T] Davies, as the white showrunner who engineered this situation, chose neither trauma porn nor avoidance. Instead he chose specificity: This is how the Doctor’s _job_ is harder now. There are some people who don’t want to be saved by him. There are some problems that cannot be solved by cosmically deep wells of compassion and empathy. There are some people with hearts so mean they will not even save themselves."
I genuinely think this episode could have benefitted from holding on the rich kids for just a little bit longer. Just long enough for them to realize how screwed they are
Yeah, by the time they finally realise what idiots they were, thinking they could defend themselves against the slugs, it's already too late and they die screaming for the Doctor as they're eaten alive. Damn is that dark.
I was pissed that Lindy got Ricky killed. Ricky would have taken Doctor’s offer. Ricky probably have micro aggressions towards the Doctor. I feel like Rocky will learn from that and be more accepting.
Ncuti’s costume in Dot and Bubble is probably my favourite because it looks somewhat original compared to his other ones. 🧡🤎 And because it’s the most Doctor-ish costume.👌 And it was the first costume that was revealed to the world in the Season One/Series 14 promo pics. I do wish he wore it more often but with a different coloured jumper for each episode. 🙏
Plus the Doctor just told them je had technology that made the Tardis bigger on the inside. He didn't say magic. Which shows that those fools are stupid too.
This story serves as a very painful wake-up call for The 15th Doctor. Remember, every previous version of The Doctor was always white(with the exception of the Fugitive Doctor/Ruth) and did not experience any racial prejudice towards them. Usually, it was towards some of his or her companions like Martha, Bill, Ryan, Yaz, or just random people in the story. In fact, 13 did not experience any sort of prejudice during her run(if she did, i probably missed it, and you can correct me) for being a woman. In fact, 12 said how Gallifreyan society was above gender and racial discrimination amongst themselves, which meant he never saw that when growing up either. As such The Doctor's usual "walking around like he owns the place" technique will now no longer be as effective as it was in prior incarnations and now will have to face the many dangers of racism and prejudice whenever and wherever he goes and he had to learn that in the worst way possible.
I live in a such unicorn world that I didn't understood why she refused to go with the doctor. It took me to see the documentary for understanding that was because of racism. First I though it was so stupid then I saw the scene once more and I was like "omg they're gonna die just because they're stupid, is this real life? Does people rather die than being with an other human? . I guess it's the natural selection."
I don’t think so as the context of the moment is heart wrenching & I don’t find it funny outside it. But that shouldn’t stop anyone from doing otherwise. I mean there’s loads of famous breaking bad memes from some sad moments in the show
@@diamant_2dot0 So if a black Guy was hanging off a cliff and you tried to save him but he said, "I don't want to be saved by a White Guy". Would you save him or let him die?
The Twelfth Doctor would have absolutely bossed this scene. Obviously racism wouldn't have been the issue...maybe ageism? Idiots: We can't TRAVEL with you. You aren't one of us. The Doctor: Okay, bye.
@@shemdellashemygd29 Maybe, maybe not. I mean, the were somewhat ageist ("no stinking old folks"), though this prejudice probably wasn't as harsh as their racism
@@joso7228What does this mean? If you think the scene is bad because the doctor chose not to save them you haven't understood the scene at all. The doctor very clearly tries to save them despite their ideologies. It's just because they themselves rather died than in any way even asociating with him that he let them go. He can't force them to safety. The whole "the doctor doesn't get to decide who lives and who dies" thematic, which has been part of plenty of episodes in the past, is right here in this scene.
@@aRandomPersonOfTheInternet They weren't not imortant. But the doctor had to respect their choice because otherwise it would have been the whole timelord victorious arc all over again.
Not the point of this scene, I know. But I really wish Ncuti had worn this outfit for the entire series. Maybe with a different jumper each week for variety. I respect that they went for something different by having a different look every time we saw him, and I know that the leather coat does occasionally make a repeat appearance. But I found myself really surprised by how much I felt the show had lost something special by not having a regularly recurring costume, and this one, more than any other, just screams the Doctor. The coat, the jumper... He looks fantastic.
Oh no for real. I love how 15 has such a diverse wardrobe in contrast to other Doctors but I wish this outfit propped up more because it is absolutely beautiful.
Shortly after this Penny Pepper-Bean rose from the dead as an Angel of Death and the Man-Traps and everyone else was killed by Sutekh's dust of death. And then several weeks later the Doctor brought them back to life. So I guess he saved them in the end in a way, so they can suck on that.
My favourite thing about this portrayal racism is that, instead of just repeating that racism is bad, it shows that racism is stupid. These kids couldn't even walk on their own at first, there's no way they can survive in the wilderness. Yet they throw away the one person who's proven that he is intelligent and could genuinely help them all because of the colour of his skin
Also, they managed to showcase it without calling it by name. Sometimes visual displays are more compelling than words. And not acknowledging it with words forces the audience to ponder. That is to actually think about it without the actors verbally spelling it out for them.
The slugs were the true heroes
100%
Poor ricky.
Agreed
Ricky September was also a hero.
@bearerofbadnews1375 Yes, as in, he may have taken time out of his buddle, but he was probably just like the rest of them.
I think, up to this moment, the Doctor was obviously expecting *something*. He was happy and content to regenerate as a black man - jubilant, even - but he was still expecting obstacles, especially if he wanted to go back in time on Earth.
But the fact that racism *actively prevented* him from doing the one thing he truly loves doing and truly wants to do, saving lives, and he didn't see it coming... I feel like it broke a small part of him. It was such a heartbreaking moment in so many ways and a magnificent performance by Gatwa.
I love Lindy's face as she stares back at the Doctor covered in condescension, disdain, contempt and more from her ineffable expression
The actress who plays Lindy did a great job.
The one at 2:04 ?
This was the moment I fully accepted Ncuti as the new Doctor. The sheer ability to convey all the emotions and feelings of the Doctor in that moment was amazing.
Same for me. Apparently this was also the first scene they filmed for this series.
You're not a real fan
@@Michael-jr3gzand who are you to define what a "real" fan is? I guess people can't enjoy something, huh?
@@Michael-jr3gz most of the series was quite bad, but this was one of the few scenes that felt like Doctor Who, at least in my opinion.
@@NB-up2eb Actually, it was the first scene NCUTI ever filmed for the series. Coming from The Giggle and he instantly embodies a new take on the Doctor. The first time in their three thousand year life that the Doctor couldn't save someone due solely to their appearance and Ncuti perfectly captures that unique, alien dismay.
The best part of that story is the realization that the computer got so fed up with having to listen to the vapid stupidity of the Finetime residents that it finally snapped, decided they were all horrible, prejudiced people and turned homicidal because it just couldn’t stand having to listen to them anymore
Well they were horrible people. The vast majority were racists.
Now imagine if AI could do that.
Doesn't answer the question why an AI designed by prejudiced people would be able to recognize that they were prejudiced, since the only environment it would have to learn from is the prejudiced one. Seems more like it would be set up to become all of their evil in one spot.
@@MegaAstroFan18the AI could still be prejudiced, we know Finetime’s security systems kept The Doctor locked out. It’s likely that the AI had no issue with the racism and just hated them for being vapid egotists constantly talking nonsense and doing stupid stuff all day whilst the AI was forced to help them complete the most menial of tasks
@@MegaAstroFan18 more to the point how was it able to manufactured living, self-aware organic slugs to hunt and kill these people in alphabetical order? My guess the home plan is that created fine time was at war with somebody else and they help created the slugs to wipe out the space third rich.
“That’s voodoo.”
And that’s the moment a good chunk of the audience, myself included, had a trippy flashback sequence where they realised everyone in Finetime was white. Well played, everyone involved with this episode… well played.
"They wouldn't let me save them," The Doctor despaired aloud. "These people with limited minds dependent & obedient to their technology that they didn't even question what was happening until it was too late."
"Where did you say this place was again?" The Master asked, jotting down notes.
"Technology, you say? Please go on," The Rani mused, looking over The Master's shoulder to make sure she gets the spelling right.
"Dependent and obedient? Please continue," The Eleven sneered, all of his past lives in agreement in what was to be done.
"Their God given rights, they say? How apt," The Meddling Monk chuckles, fully planning to steal one of the Master's notes so he can get there first.
@@thequietestengine
Only to have them all converted to Cybermen by the time everyone shows up.
@@ashleybrooke2087 Only if they survive the wilderness for long enough for the cybermen to arrive. Which seems unlikely.
@@ashleybrooke2087nah the daleks came first
Show these amateurs some professional racism
The look she gives him as she sails away is so cold. That’s not a look of remorse or inner conflict. That’s a look of smug superiority. In her mind, she defeated the Doctor, and she’s very proud of herself
The thing is they have no comprehension on the task ahead and how they will all die because they have no skills whatsoever to survive.
Thinking she defeated him would be giving him too much credit from her perspective. Remember that racists are sub-human trash who view everyone else the way that they actually are. To defeat him she would need to think he ever posed any kind of threat or was in some way above her to be brought down by her. No, she was... honestly to me it looked like she MIGHT have been briefly questioning her smug hatred, but ultimately deciding she's right to think he's too beneath her to warrant any further response at all.
But basically, no, she doesn't think she defeated him. She thinks an annoying bug is shouting at her and possibly is briefly questioning whether he might be more than a bug.
To think she "defeated" him would mean she had to think he was ever any threat to her. She views him as beneath her, and one just ignores those they view as beneath them.
My heart really broke for the Doctor, it really goes to show how kind and compassionate he is that DESPITE how awful these people are he still wants to save their lives but because of their prejudice they'd rather go to their inevitable deaths than be saved by a black man... and lemme tell you I have NEVER hated a character in Doctor Who as much as I hate Lindy!
And Ncuti Gatwa absolutely knocks it out of the park with his performance and to think this was the first scene he filmed as the Doctor post-The Giggle? Talk about throwing him into the deep end but wow! He IS the Doctor and I hope he sticks around for a long time to come, he is phenomenal!
You're not a real Doctor Who fan
@Michael-jr3gz Me: *likes Doctor Who*
"YoU'rE nOt A rEaL dOcToR wHo FaN"
I agree completely with everything you said.
Shows how good Lindy's actress is that you hate her so much tbh
Aunque recordemos que el doctor no siempre fue asi el tambien fue racista y critico sobre los seres humanos antes de haberse vuelto sabio y compasivo con los demas.
Ncuti's performance here is just.....incredible. This is gonna remain one of the huge moments for his Doctor.
Especially when you consider the fact that this was his first day on set filming for the series (even before The Giggle) while he was still finishing up on Sex Education season 4. Even Russell said if they should delay filming this scene because the context would be something hard hitting for someone like Ncuti who no doubt endured similar attitude from people like Lindy in his early life before and after he and his family escaped the Rwandan genocide. A terrifically performed scene and Ncuti in general is a fantastic actor.
@@bladersmosh No, I think this was after 'The Giggle'.
@@rowanc88 it Was before
It definitely is!
And Millie‘s performance is great too from the „I can’t even…“ to her restraint at letting the Doctor have his space in his outburst when she clearly so wish she could just drag him away from those horrible people.
The fact that it was also his first day filming this season, only to find out that his first scene on set was being him being rejected by a bunch of bigoted, idiotic characters. Then gives a hell of a performance
It's all the more stunning when you know that this is the first scene Ncuti filmed for his new series.
That's honestly extremely uncomfortable tbh. Imagine finally getting to play such a role, and then the showrunner is like "So, your first scene is purely 'inspired' by your complexion, have fun with it!" Added with Christopher Eccelsston's series 1 complaints of bad on-set moments of ick, and it just rubs the wrong way.
Damnnnnnn 😲. Dude nailed it.
fr he was amazing
@@Soulindextrue..owch
@@Soulindex well brother welcome to being black lmao. Most of us have this moment once in our lives lol.
My headcanon, after they left into the woods, they all got killed in the most brutal way possible. Some people aren't worth saving.
My guess is they’d all turn on each other in a week
I'm going with that as well.
@scsutton1 cause those people are a clear example that Not everyone deserves saving.
Likely there were mantraps in the woods or they had no idea how to survive in the woods so exposure or starvation.
same tbh.
At least we can extract some smug retribution knowing they sailed off into a deadly fate of their own making.
Ncuti's acting in this scene is just... incredible. The sheer ability to convey all of the Doctor's emotions and feelings in that moment was amazing.
So yes, Ncuti's performance in this scene 10/10 right, can't ignore that.
I wanna talk about the Doctor's offer to come with him (ALL of them), just once I want this offer to be taken up and we just see like 100 people walking through the TARDIS doors like it's a clown car and the cuts to the console room packed to the gills with people, then the Doctor struggling to pilot away because there's so many people.
OMG That would be hilarious! 😂
Especially with the extra passenger on the roof.
Both Ncuti and Millie nailed this episode
Millie is brilliant in this scene, with the way she acts so anxious. Want to know why that's brilliant? Because Ruby realises that there is no possible way the Doctor can 'just save' the Finetimers under ANY conditions, and it's visibly tearing her apart inside that she can't say a word or the Finetimers might get... ideas....
Because The Doctor, at this exact moment... is one man, talking to a sizable group of people... who see different as dangerous. The only thing saving The Doctor here is the fact that the Finetimers never realized/believed that he has a machine that can go anywhere in time and space.
I will also add Callie Cooke, Lindy’s actress, does a great job going from someone we were rooting for in the episode to completely hating her guts even before the racism
One of if not the best scene from 15 this series
That's not really saying much
@@Michael-jr3gz Except it is
Since Lindy's mother was one of Sutekh's angels of death, that means she's his granddaughter.
This has to be the most depressing ending to a DOCTOR WHO story that I've ever seen. They'd rather risk certain death in an unknown wilderness than "contaminate" themselves with outsiders. 😞😥😭
It wasn't just outsiders, it was because they were racist. Look earlier in the story and see how they react to the doctor versus millie. Big difference in reaction.
@@BritishTrainspotting I stand corrected! Thank you! ✌️
Here's another worrying thought... What if they had followed him into the TARDIS, saw all the technology that more advanced than they could possibly imagine, and then they saw... that the only obstacle between them and that technology... was a man that they really didn't like?
+As depressing as this ending was, it was sadly the only possible outcome.+
@@John_EMIYA_Miller That is a very worrying thought!!! Also, I think you're right, that it was the only possible ending. ✌️
@@tomstanziola1982 Its societies fault for not teaching everyone about things like this in fairness, but you're welcome!
I didn't realise first time either, but after watching a second time... it was really obvious. I just thought they were classist or some other kind of bigotry.
When does Ncuti get his award? In one scene, he proved that despite this being a Doctor-lite episode, it's still his show. The fact that this was his first scene as THE Doctor is amazing. Ncuti is a brilliant Doctor.
Ncuti's acting in this moment is excellent. That elevated the episode from a 7 to an 8 / 10 for me, especially when you take into account the excellent social commentary. Oh, we are SO back!
Well these finetimers made their beds. I bet these guys won’t last a week without their tech.
Unless they get cyber converted they’re definitely dead
I'd be surprised if they lasted two days.
@@samalvey8168
Like most of their types, they have no idea the cost of trying to live in the wilds without the tech they are used to.
Ncuti really is the perfect choice as the doctor, such a good actor
@@joso7228Well, if beeing himself is this, he defintaly IS the doctor!
@@joso7228Tom Baker would like a word…
Wow, The Doctor encountered Bowlestrek, Nerdrotic and The Critical Drinker.....😅
And Will of The Fans.
You mean fans of the show who are fed up and angry that it’s being ruined by wokeness
@@JustMe-om2dk The real Whovians love this season.
Change is part of the show.
@@JustMe-om2dkmeanwhile the classic era especially The Third Doctor era was full of early woke stuff
aka REAL Doctor Who fans
The Doctor experiencing specism, normal.
The Doctor experiencing racism, not on my bingo card
When the Doctor experiences specism because of anti-Time-Lord bigotry, his response has sometimes been, "You have a point but I'm not like that" (most obviously the 8th incarnation in "The Night of the Doctor")
It’s not the first time the Doctor experienced racism. The Eighth Doctor’s would-be companion Cass rejected him when she found it he was a time lord (the night of the Doctor).
@@stephenmurphy2212
But that was specism, not racism
What makes this special is how self-defeating their brand of racism is.
A lot of portrayals of racism focus on trauma and hate, but this scene highlights the completely unearned sense of superiority that motivates a group of rich kids to throw away their best chance of survival in the most smug and senseless way possible. The Doctor cries as he watches these idiots destroy themselves for literally no legitimate reason.
@@spaceboomer564
Indeed. Again the comparison with Cass is interesting: she *knew* that she's extremely unlikely to survive without the Doctor's help. The Finetimers actualy deceived themsleves into thinking they can make it in the wild...
(Also, Cass was actually right to hate and fear the Time Lords; by this time, they'd become a menace to the universe. The Doctor was an exception, but she had little reason to know that. She was still wrong about him, of course, but she wasn't entirely wrong about his people)
This was the moment Ncuti Gatwa became The Doctor
This ending honestly sums up how I feel about the 2024 election...
This is genuinely one of the best scenes we've had in modern who for such a long time. The absolute presence Ncuti has here is unmatched.
While Dot and Bubble isn't a favourite of mine, the ending is outstandingly brilliant, especially Ncuti's phenomenal performance. As for the aspects of racism, I was shocked upon learning about it on social media after watching the episode on iPlayer. Not to mention that I didn't understand the true nature of "contaminated" at first.
seriously i did not get a lot of the nuances watching as a non-UK viewer. I blitzkrieged my way watching the entire season and only know, after reading comments start to realise lol
I really love how this is his frist scene he shot and its just beautifully done.
JUSTICE FOR RICKY SEPTEMBER
He was probably just as bad as them.
I was bummed when he was killed off, was hoping to see more of that character.
@@RandomRoss even if Ricky was still racist he had the best chance to grow beyond it. Of all the colony characters he was the only one who showed a curiosity and willingness to accept ideas that were beyond his world view.
@@RandomRossHe was clearly supposed to be the character, who was not like the others. Even from a story telleing stand point it'd only make sence that he is the contrast to the other finetimers. He only used the bubble to make his songs and imidiatly after broke free from this echochamber.
The connection that the only finetimer who didn't use the bubble was the only nice one is clearly the device to show the actual problem, the bubble/echochamber.
@@diamant_2dot0I see what you mean but I disagree. Ricky chose to live in Finetime and is perhaps the only one there who understands the history of the place. In that way I could see him being even more evil than the other more naïve rich kids. From a meta stand point, he represents the viewers who think it's important for the Doctor to be a white man. Ricky is white superiority incarnate.
This is one of the few scenes from anything ever that actually gave me chills..when I realized they were all probably gonna die because of such unfounded prejudice
Not the saliva 😭
Seriously though props to ncuti! This is a really powerful speech especially for a first episode!!
That's not saliva 🤦♂️
It's his necklace
@@Danjag it is his saliva
@@Danjaghis necklace does dangle I just rewatched and saw that but he also spits dramatically too 😊
This is one of the most "Doctor" moments ever. Think what you like, he just wants to help.
Never cruel. Never cowardly.
I like how even though they were arrogant he still wanted to save them. It not The Doctors fault if they did out there. He did everything he could to saved them and did it. He also give them an opportunity to go in the Tardis and find a different world. He give them a choice and they didn’t take it.
Die out there I mean.
This is accurate. People don't accept help from those they see as being below them. Even if they are friends.
This was probably the most pissed i’ve been at a Doctor Who ending since Midnight. Also, praise the anti-racist slugs - they were doing the galaxy a service.
nooo they cut off the music 😿😿
They have to do something to incentivise you to watch the full episode.
@@HOTD108_ I don't need incentive, I'll gladly watch it again. RTD cooked big time.
You have to admire how PATIENT the Doctor tries to be with Lindy and the Finetimers. I mean, look at all his experiences with Davros and the Daleks, who are also products of an intolerant, xenophobic culture and nearly destroyed the multiverse!
People should gotten fired over this episode. Not for the reason you're thinking of.
This was Ncuti Gatalwa's first ever day of filming, and they were not sure if they should start his time as the Doctor like this and move it back to let him get into his comfort zone, but he nailed. When I first warched this, i didn't quite it, but then on second viewing, it was stairing us in the face why she kept swiping him to one side, why she only listen to Ruby had to say.
People hated this character. I love how realistic this character is towards the reality of humanity
I can totally imagine this happening if widespread space colonization becomes a thing.
Every radical and bigoted group that currently infests our current society is gonna want to find their own planet and make new societies based entirely on their awful beliefs and open bigotry.
No matter how diverse things are , these days , especially in television and film, it reminds us that people like that will always be around.
It's prioritizing race over characterization that's perpetuating that division. This is a proper scene that uses race to explore characterization rather than undermine it. Showing the the Doctor's selflessness and heroism, being so desperate to help and save people even when he knows they're never going to thank him, that they see him as lesser because of something so arbitrary. They're racist monsters yet he refuses to stoop to their level, refusing to respond to their hatred with more hatred.
So many Lindys in this comment section.
They were already dead. Know survival skills. Their ancestors would say. "What the hell are you thinking".
Best scene of RTD2 so far. And one of the best performances ever in Doctor Who.
You guys did a Good job with this Episode... 👍👏👏
Never has the Doctor been more heroic, or the message been more effective.
Their ignorance is on a whole other level because the Doctor even explained that theTARDIS has "technology" which makes it bigger on the inside and they talk about "vodoo magic". Also thinking they could tame the wilderness and survive there even so some of them most likely didn´t know how to act on their own without the bubble like Lindy did in the beginning. They barely survived slow moving slug-monsters with help and who knows what´s out there? Long story short, I never hoped for instant bad karma as for those people.
@@joso7228 Well, if they rather face the possibility of death in the wilderness instead of swallowing their pride and take the help it seems unavoidable no matter how you look at it.
This moment was so incredible 😢❤
the bots here are so unedible
@@joso7228 Ah yes because someone who likes something you don't must be a bot.
This can’t be a coincidence- uploading this clip whilst the protests and riots continue in the UK. Very on point Doctor Who. Very on point.
I hope they do a sequel to this and this time the slugs are the good guys and those three horrible people are the villans
Ncuti’s performance here was………….INCREDIBLE.
Not everyone deserves saving.
You got that right 😢
@@joso7228The doctor tried and they refused him. He can't force the to come with him. That's the whole "the doctor can't choose who lives and who dies" thematic because "using such power would make him a monster"
except for Ricky September. we need JUSTICE for our boy
@@joso7228 He could have gone after them, materialised the tardis around them and forcefully brought them to safety. But like I said, this would make him a monster too. He literally would have taken their freedom of choice, their freedom in general and their dignity away from them. In this case to him they wouldn't have been people anymore. They would have been objects he just had to relocate so they wouldn't get eaten by the slugs.
Like Captain Brook said in The Waters of Mars, noone should have that power.
The doctor has this power but the whole timelord victorious arc shows what it does to him, when he uses it.
They chose to ignore him, knowing very well what fate they would meet. I'm sure the doctor didn't want to respect that but he HAD to.
This was Ncuti's first scene filmed.
This was amazing.
Netrodic and Bowlsteak fans be like:
aka all real Doctor Who fans
@@Michael-jr3gz
Too close to home, buddy? LMAO.
@@Michael-jr3gz So you say all real doctor who fans are racist. Ok buddy 🤣
@@jeckjeck3119he actually just called them that? That's it. In order to love the show you need to absolutely hate it. 🤪
Makes perfect sense...
@@Michael-jr3gznope! Real Doctor Who fans don't watch videos by meth dealing Nazis!
RIP RICKY ❤
Lindy is truly THE most hateable character throughout all of Doctor Who.
Davros might be evil, but Lindy is FAR more hateable.
Kudos to her actor for making her THE most vile soul to ever cross The Doctor's path.
Sutekh can have her. Leave her death un reversed.
The universe is better off without her.
As for "that's voodoo" girl? Voodoo? You LITERALLY heard them say less than 2 minutes ago it was technology.
How flicking thick are Finetime people that they hear something called one thing, then assume it's something totally different?
The Doctor really should've just left them alone, not bothered.
Only one of them was worth saving and none of them were it
@@autumbreeze1129 the fact doctor who fans still hate her shows how well the actress did it
The only criticism I’d have of this is that while it’s very well and good The Doctor suffering racist abuse, it’s never expanded on? Ruby and The Doctor’s relationship isn’t deepened by her trying to comfort him? You get whiplash by going from that to “Haha gay Bridgerton!”
Honestly I feel this episode should've had a few more minutes with the Doctor and Ruby having a chat in the TARDIS, honestly in general this series needed more TARDIS scenes, we barely see the Doctor and Ruby in it, what's up with that? That's probably my biggest issue with this series (And I really enjoyed this series!)... it might seem like a small thing but the TARDIS is the Doctor's home but we barely see that in this series.
Exactly Ruby and the Doctor needed to talk more & have more serious moments
This is a real thing and isn't being sensationalized. Story had more potential. Most episodes were great though. So even better in season 2 maybe
Welcome to Doctor Who. The backbone of the show is having each episode to its own new adventure. Yes, there is continuity between episodes (a loose continuity, but continuity nevertheless) but for the most part the show thrives off each new story being its own thing. The show didn't even do season arcs (sort of) until over 40 years into its existence, and even then most episodes can standalone as their own adventure with the exception of the finales usually. What you're asking for fundamentally goes against what's allowed the show to stay popular for so long.
@HOTD108_ nah you need to work on your reading comprehension... we're criticizing some episodes, not claiming they should all be connected storywise.
Strongest moment of the 15th doctor, if not all of modern DW!
Also, in our faces!
Yes, in many of us fans' faces, looking at the opposition to several recent doctors and companions got.
Such a great scene for Ncuti, not only showing off the kindness of his incarnation in the face of terrible people, but their prejudice overshadows logic. For me this is the ending of Idiot's Lantern done right.
I want to think of myself as a good person but, boy, does this planet need a friendly visit from the Daleks
One of the most unexpected endings to an episode for me! As a fan, I genuinely never imagined this kind of outcome for an episode. I was gobsmacked! Ncuti’s performance was spot on.
This was truly heartbreaking 💔. Lindy Pepper-Bean is really a despicable character.
Amazing actress though
@@shemdellashemygd29 she did a great job
Some people just can’t be helped. ❤❤❤❤❤
I wish he wore that outfit through the hole season didn’t like it that he kept changing it
Each to their own
I wish those slugs were real.
Racist-eating slugs would be awesome
Yep. A few of them out on the streets wouldn't go amiss right now.
I struggle with this scene because as much as I HATE how disgusting they were to the Doctor, the performances my GOD, they're golden. Ncuti, Millie, Callie, they absolutely sold this scene.
I really thought the Doctor would materialise the TARDIS around them to shut their stupid faces up but they went for an emotional end when there was no emotion from the audience for that terrible woman
Sad thing is, they'd probably be convinced it was some sort of trick.
@@thequietestengineor they’d start screaming bloody murder about him kidnapping them and start calling him a brute or something
This is basically that one episode of Kitchen Nightmares where Gordon Ramsay gives up on a restaurant for the first time ever because the owners are that stubborn and in denial
I love Ncuti ❤ Excited already For the next round of stories. Give him a five year contract!
Ok so I haven't caught up to series 14 yet, but holy crap my impression are insanely high. This scenes showing of how absurd bigotry can get is so heartbreaking and I legit can't wait to see Ncuti's performance in this series
This scene is why the Ncuti Gatwa deserves the prize for best actor at the next NTAs, or at least nominated for an award.
"o my god" it was cringeworthy
That's a great actor
I knew right away that Ncuti Gatwa was a Perfect Choice for the Doctor. He was well worth the wait!!! ❤
This paragraph from a review by Polygon's Joshua Riviera was so good that I want to share it here on the pertinent clip:
"Up until now, _Doctor Who_ has been pretty unconcerned with how the Doctor taking on the appearance of a Black man might change the dynamic of the show. On the one hand, this is understandable, desirable even - it would be crass and arguably retrograde to immediately subject the Doctor to racism the moment it became a possible story outcome. It also feels intellectually dishonest to act as if it would _never_ matter. [Russell T] Davies, as the white showrunner who engineered this situation, chose neither trauma porn nor avoidance. Instead he chose specificity: This is how the Doctor’s _job_ is harder now. There are some people who don’t want to be saved by him. There are some problems that cannot be solved by cosmically deep wells of compassion and empathy. There are some people with hearts so mean they will not even save themselves."
I genuinely think this episode could have benefitted from holding on the rich kids for just a little bit longer. Just long enough for them to realize how screwed they are
Yeah, by the time they finally realise what idiots they were, thinking they could defend themselves against the slugs, it's already too late and they die screaming for the Doctor as they're eaten alive.
Damn is that dark.
Talking about being ungrateful to the ones who saved your life .
😊
I was pissed that Lindy got Ricky killed. Ricky would have taken Doctor’s offer. Ricky probably have micro aggressions towards the Doctor. I feel like Rocky will learn from that and be more accepting.
Ncuti’s costume in Dot and Bubble is probably my favourite because it looks somewhat original compared to his other ones. 🧡🤎 And because it’s the most Doctor-ish costume.👌 And it was the first costume that was revealed to the world in the Season One/Series 14 promo pics. I do wish he wore it more often but with a different coloured jumper for each episode. 🙏
Best part of the episode right here
Plus the Doctor just told them je had technology that made the Tardis bigger on the inside. He didn't say magic. Which shows that those fools are stupid too.
This story serves as a very painful wake-up call for The 15th Doctor. Remember, every previous version of The Doctor was always white(with the exception of the Fugitive Doctor/Ruth) and did not experience any racial prejudice towards them.
Usually, it was towards some of his or her companions like Martha, Bill, Ryan, Yaz, or just random people in the story. In fact, 13 did not experience any sort of prejudice during her run(if she did, i probably missed it, and you can correct me) for being a woman.
In fact, 12 said how Gallifreyan society was above gender and racial discrimination amongst themselves, which meant he never saw that when growing up either. As such The Doctor's usual "walking around like he owns the place" technique will now no longer be as effective as it was in prior incarnations and now will have to face the many dangers of racism and prejudice whenever and wherever he goes and he had to learn that in the worst way possible.
Dot was right.
Absolutely masterful scene. A Doctor Who story hasn't given me such a pit in my stomach since Torchwood Children of Earth. So incredibly depressing.
I live in a such unicorn world that I didn't understood why she refused to go with the doctor. It took me to see the documentary for understanding that was because of racism. First I though it was so stupid then I saw the scene once more and I was like "omg they're gonna die just because they're stupid, is this real life? Does people rather die than being with an other human? . I guess it's the natural selection."
I hope Lindy returns. Her character was so juicy. Maybe a prequel before she went to fine time or post leaving on that little boat!
The only thing I want to see post her leaving on that little boat is her getting gobbled up by a giant shark
Damn that's good acting!
Should the scream be used as a meme format? I know Dwpoop already has, but still.
I don’t think so as the context of the moment is heart wrenching & I don’t find it funny outside it.
But that shouldn’t stop anyone from doing otherwise. I mean there’s loads of famous breaking bad memes from some sad moments in the show
This is one of the most important scenes in Doctor Who history.
not really Who Bot because it was unclear whether they were being racist or Tik Tok group biased.
@@joso7228 The sentence: "no thank you. That's voodoo." is VERY clearly racism
@@diamant_2dot0 So if a black Guy was hanging off a cliff and you tried to save him but he said, "I don't want to be saved by a White Guy". Would you save him or let him die?
@@joso7228 "you sir" clearly racism
This was an emotional punch to the face. I get why the computer hated the Fintimers because they suck.
I mean, after she sold out the guy she was in love with, I didn't really want the Doctor to save them.
The Twelfth Doctor would have absolutely bossed this scene. Obviously racism wouldn't have been the issue...maybe ageism?
Idiots: We can't TRAVEL with you. You aren't one of us.
The Doctor: Okay, bye.
Still could have been racism if he was traveling with Bill at the time, like they refuse to go in because Bill had been in there or something
They would have went with him though.....
@@shemdellashemygd29not if Bill was there
@@shemdellashemygd29
Maybe, maybe not. I mean, the were somewhat ageist ("no stinking old folks"), though this prejudice probably wasn't as harsh as their racism
The civilisation that didn't deserve to be saved by the Doctor.
That is not what The Doctor does. Appalling writing.
@@joso7228 He had every right to refuse to help them because of how they treated him, but he still offered to help them anyway. They turned him down.
@@joso7228What does this mean?
If you think the scene is bad because the doctor chose not to save them you haven't understood the scene at all.
The doctor very clearly tries to save them despite their ideologies.
It's just because they themselves rather died than in any way even asociating with him that he let them go.
He can't force them to safety. The whole "the doctor doesn't get to decide who lives and who dies" thematic, which has been part of plenty of episodes in the past, is right here in this scene.
“In 900 years of time and space, I've never met anyone who wasn't important” - The Doctor
@@aRandomPersonOfTheInternet They weren't not imortant. But the doctor had to respect their choice because otherwise it would have been the whole timelord victorious arc all over again.
Not the point of this scene, I know. But I really wish Ncuti had worn this outfit for the entire series. Maybe with a different jumper each week for variety. I respect that they went for something different by having a different look every time we saw him, and I know that the leather coat does occasionally make a repeat appearance. But I found myself really surprised by how much I felt the show had lost something special by not having a regularly recurring costume, and this one, more than any other, just screams the Doctor. The coat, the jumper... He looks fantastic.
Oh no for real. I love how 15 has such a diverse wardrobe in contrast to other Doctors but I wish this outfit propped up more because it is absolutely beautiful.
That moment actually killed me…
Unfortunatelly we won't see no one of them dying.
Shortly after this Penny Pepper-Bean rose from the dead as an Angel of Death and the Man-Traps and everyone else was killed by Sutekh's dust of death. And then several weeks later the Doctor brought them back to life. So I guess he saved them in the end in a way, so they can suck on that.
Remeber ricky was the true hero
Little did The Doctor and Ruby know that the population of Finetime (except Ricky) were followers of Bowlestrek. If you know, you know.