On the western side: Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2. Wastelands 3. Even for Pillars of Eternity, turn based was one of the most popular demands for the devs was a turn-based option. Gaming as a hobby becomes more and more popular. I highly doubt ot that there are less people playing or buying turn-based rpgs than before (it is probably the opposite). It is just that with a consumer base that is way larger than it was in for ex. early 2000, get somewhat overshadowed by games with mass appeal. Original Sin 2 and BG3 are absurdly popular for being in a more "niche" genre. Both of these were on top when it comes to sales.
i don't think it is dying but it has become a more niche genre. lots of people don't want action stops, but one only needs to look at how well franchises like persona perform to see there is still a very large core fanbase of the genre.
Bruh Baldur's Gate 3 just won the most recent GOTY. That's not even a Japanese turn based game, which some might think are the last bastions of turn based.
I wholeheartedly agree with your comparison of Devil May Cry 3 to 5. DMC 5 felt like I was barely tapping into the character's potential. In DMC 3 I was aware of the potential but it never felt like I was under performing. Or maybe it's because the Internet has opened my eyes to what an SSS rank looks like.
A consequence of iterative game development Dmc4 is still the pinnacle of combat in the franchise though, if you felt like you were barely capable of tapping into character potential in dmc5, playing 4 competently is like performing a piano recital for the london philharmonic
@@gs32621 4 runs like ~20% faster than 5, turbo and LDK notwithstanding Timing is far more strict in 4 as well, lots of 1 frame attacks are ~3-4 frame links in 5 Not to mention Pandora
The only major JRP series to move away from turn based combat is Final Fantasy and with franchises like SMT, Dragon Quest, Like a Dragon, Fire Emblem, Octopath, Trails series etc., no turn based is not dead or dying.
For the most part I agree but we still don't know what they are doing with Dragon Quest 12.....I have a bad feeling they are going to do something stupid with that one.
@@DragonKingX78 at most they would go for a SMT aproach, making a new way to interact with turns, or something like Yakuza, were the fights feel more dinamic thanks to everyone being in movement while still being turn based.
I don't think turn based is dying in fact is my and for many other theirs favorite game genre. I think one reason why someone would assume that is because many big companies like Square have turned they big turn based games like Final Fantasy into a action one but here is the thing, Square is targeting a larger "mainstream" demographic. Square is willing to lose they fans to get new ones, but I also think this thinking is backwards because we have seen many turn based games breaking millions in sale, some of the most popular trun based games sold ridiculous amounts of copies like Yakuza Like A Dragon, Persona 5, Octopath 1, Dragon Quest XI... I think companies are turning they backs from turn based because they want to sell instead of 5-10 million copies they want to sell 10-15 million, is the same reason why we have so many live service games. I still think there is a market for turn based games, even if most companies will go live service, free 2 play (pay2win), action... I think tactical strategy RPG's or turn based RPG's will always have a place and a fanbase to support these titles.
The really funny kicker is Yakuza has been an action RPG until 7, when it went to turn based. Anytime Ichiban is the protagonist, expect turn based combat.
@@M00nlightOfficial Yeah a weird move but also cool giving turn based a bigger spot light. I don't think turn based is going anywhere, same goes for visual novels, tactical games... I just think they are not the "desired" games from big companies because they want a money cow. Is one of the reasons why we get so many live service games after the success of Fortnite but live service is a huge gamble and even now with Fortnite the fact that Epic fired 16% of they Fortnite employees because of money costs to mentain should tell you everything (and Fortnite is the biggest one). I think is a double edge sword and sadly these big companies and they CEO's will find out sooner or later that they made a huge mistake investing so much money in that one genre. I also don't know if you noticed it but there is also a clear rise of tactical strategy RPG fans. I remember when big tactical RPG's like Fire Emblem would only sell 300-500K and would be considered a success, now Fire Emblem games sell over 3 million if I remember correctly Fire Emblem Three Houses sold almost 4 million, very close to 4 million, these are very impressive number for a genre what most people considered even more niche than turn based JRPG's. But well we will see what time will bring. From my understanding the only genre what really died was the text based adventure one, but honestly is the most boring one, is a book essentially with you sometimes writing some words on your keyboard... Visual novels can at least give you something unique but text based adventures... I can see why they died out.
Nope. It's not dying. Persona 5 and the whole SMT franchise, Dragon Quest franchise, hell the goddamn POKEMON... Turn-based is alive and well, no matter what the more ADHD triple-A wankers try to claim. Looking at you, nu-Final Fantasy devs. And don't get me even started on the huge TBS genre. Countless months have been lost playing the one and the same Civilization skirmish with my buddies, and Xcom is loved by countless people. The problem really are the zoomer GAMERS. Their endless narc-like seeking of that "rush" you speak of has literally poisoned endless games and genres. JRPGs especially used to be COMFY games, enjoyed like a long, epic book. Not something to get your adrenaline doze, but to live a moment in fantastical worlds, partake in an epic journey.
Yeah I think it was more of a shift with the times, turn based games kind of had to evolve to stay relevant especially with how crazy action games were getting. I think there is still a lot of variety in turn based if you are still looking for that comfy title but also a lot of action turn based to balance it out. And yeah turn based has been on a very good rise through recent years
Like your channel, just new to it. Great music too. Could use better balance when you're talking with the music -- I love that you let the music get bigger when you aren't talking, too -- but your editing is so good I'm sure you'll keep polishing.
I really have a hard time believing the games were turned base simply because of budget or computation limits. There was zelda. there was metroid. there was mario, etc etc all didnt have turn based and were on the same systems for a long time. Final Fantasy and other rpgs were turn based because of DND. people just took the tabletop version and made a game out of it with there own worlds and rule sets.
You forgot Metaphor: ReFantazio for Turn Based RPGs for 2024 while Digital Devil Saga IP is being handle by 1st Production than P-Studio who did Persona 3 Reload.
Actually RPGs didn't really start as turn based, JRPG wise. One of the earliest releases was Dragon Slayer, developed by Nihon Falcom for the PC-88. The game was essentially just a very early action RPG, without much of a story. Eventually more action RPGs were created as time went on like Ys (coming out a year after The Legend of Zelda), Mana, etc. Both sides have always kinda just coexisted with each other. I don't see one dying out over the other because FF decided its next mainline entry was going to be an action RPG. Hell, even with its current reputation, Pokemon Scarlet & Violet still sold well, and now many people are anticipating the next Persona game after Persona 5's success. If anything, turn based is bigger than ever, with more people finding newer turn based games to play.
Very true, I moreso wanted to highlight how turn base was on a decline, then in recent years has been on an unstoppable rise but hasn’t yet hit that mainstream level just yet
I've started that series, and it's good! I think some people don't talk about it because of the high level of commitment needed to really get into the series
I hate the fact that your voice, the little edits you put into the video and the use of music are so good, but you keep the transition animations boring. Your videos are so enjoyable, keep it up man!
My take is that people crave dopamine and adrenaline especially in violent games or extremely difficult games, and turn based doesn't exactly give that same feeling, turn based has you strategically thinking your next move, and whiek it is fun ti some, the majority dont want to overthink or have yo use a lot of brain power to enjoy a game, so they like open world games with action games
This is my dream and i will keep dreaming so that I will see a FF 10-3 or a new mainline ff title that is turn based, atleast I have Persona 6 to 8 before that happens ahaha
Im kinda confused here. Where exactly is the decline? Also this year bg3 came out. Has turnbased mechanics ppl love it. Pokemon always sells aswell. I rly dont see a decline.
Unfortunately I started the video a bit before baldurs gate came out so I didn’t get a chance to include it, but I referenced the decline as being moreso around the ps3 generation of consoles
I'm not so sure there is a decline in turn based JRPG besides Final Fantasy and even then we got Yakuza shifting in the opposite direction to balance it out somewhat.
Yeah turn based really is at its best under situations of high difficulty, which is why SMT is such a stand out in the genre. But let's be real about SMT, it's definitely not a flawless series. Wandering around the desert with the world's blandest story and set of characters in SMT V is just not that interesting for most JRPG fans
Quit making up problems, turn based is just as popular if not more than ever, idk if you heard about this game but it’s pretty niche and underrated, Baldurs Gate 3 is pretty fun. I know nobody knows this series but persona 3 has a remake, and I’m sure not many people are aware but Atlus also released a new game called Metaphor, don’t get me started on Yakuza: like a dragon
Idk action jrpgs are just boring to me. They lack the depth or sense of world building turn based jrpgs give me. I also do not want to stress my self out after a hard days work and just want to press the A button to give commands. Action games on the other hand require decent inputs to get by require more focus.
sorry but TURN BASED WAS dying.. way before u made the video.. persona 5 brought it back in 2017 (made it really popular look at sales numbers). now bg3. but before that there hasnt really been anything that good (yes ff but thats another story.)
On the western side: Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2. Wastelands 3.
Even for Pillars of Eternity, turn based was one of the most popular demands for the devs was a turn-based option.
Gaming as a hobby becomes more and more popular. I highly doubt ot that there are less people playing or buying turn-based rpgs than before (it is probably the opposite).
It is just that with a consumer base that is way larger than it was in for ex. early 2000, get somewhat overshadowed by games with mass appeal.
Original Sin 2 and BG3 are absurdly popular for being in a more "niche" genre.
Both of these were on top when it comes to sales.
Been binge watching ya channel bro!, underrated asf 👌🏾
i don't think it is dying but it has become a more niche genre. lots of people don't want action stops, but one only needs to look at how well franchises like persona perform to see there is still a very large core fanbase of the genre.
Bruh Baldur's Gate 3 just won the most recent GOTY. That's not even a Japanese turn based game, which some might think are the last bastions of turn based.
And what about Baldur's Gate 3?
It's hard to talk about the genre dying when Bg3 is being consider for the game of the year.
I wholeheartedly agree with your comparison of Devil May Cry 3 to 5. DMC 5 felt like I was barely tapping into the character's potential. In DMC 3 I was aware of the potential but it never felt like I was under performing. Or maybe it's because the Internet has opened my eyes to what an SSS rank looks like.
A consequence of iterative game development
Dmc4 is still the pinnacle of combat in the franchise though, if you felt like you were barely capable of tapping into character potential in dmc5, playing 4 competently is like performing a piano recital for the london philharmonic
@@Vanity0666dmc5 wipes 4’s gameplay in every way💀💀💀
@@gs32621 4 runs like ~20% faster than 5, turbo and LDK notwithstanding
Timing is far more strict in 4 as well, lots of 1 frame attacks are ~3-4 frame links in 5
Not to mention Pandora
@@Vanity0666dmc 4 in lot of time give you too much that makes combat feels horrible when you do something you didn't want
The only major JRP series to move away from turn based combat is Final Fantasy and with franchises like SMT, Dragon Quest, Like a Dragon, Fire Emblem, Octopath, Trails series etc., no turn based is not dead or dying.
For the most part I agree but we still don't know what they are doing with Dragon Quest 12.....I have a bad feeling they are going to do something stupid with that one.
@@DragonKingX78 Dragon Quest is like a sacred cow in Japan. I doubt they’ll do anything too drastically different with a mainline game…
@@DragonKingX78 at most they would go for a SMT aproach, making a new way to interact with turns, or something like Yakuza, were the fights feel more dinamic thanks to everyone being in movement while still being turn based.
I'm gonna answer your clickbait question without watching the video. No, it's not dying, despite what SquEnix wants everybody to think.
Pumpo uploaded y'all ready to witness peak UA-cam?
You goddamn know it
the music you choose to put in these videos is so goddamned good
I don't think turn based is dying in fact is my and for many other theirs favorite game genre. I think one reason why someone would assume that is because many big companies like Square have turned they big turn based games like Final Fantasy into a action one but here is the thing, Square is targeting a larger "mainstream" demographic. Square is willing to lose they fans to get new ones, but I also think this thinking is backwards because we have seen many turn based games breaking millions in sale, some of the most popular trun based games sold ridiculous amounts of copies like Yakuza Like A Dragon, Persona 5, Octopath 1, Dragon Quest XI...
I think companies are turning they backs from turn based because they want to sell instead of 5-10 million copies they want to sell 10-15 million, is the same reason why we have so many live service games.
I still think there is a market for turn based games, even if most companies will go live service, free 2 play (pay2win), action... I think tactical strategy RPG's or turn based RPG's will always have a place and a fanbase to support these titles.
The really funny kicker is Yakuza has been an action RPG until 7, when it went to turn based. Anytime Ichiban is the protagonist, expect turn based combat.
@@M00nlightOfficial Yeah a weird move but also cool giving turn based a bigger spot light. I don't think turn based is going anywhere, same goes for visual novels, tactical games... I just think they are not the "desired" games from big companies because they want a money cow. Is one of the reasons why we get so many live service games after the success of Fortnite but live service is a huge gamble and even now with Fortnite the fact that Epic fired 16% of they Fortnite employees because of money costs to mentain should tell you everything (and Fortnite is the biggest one). I think is a double edge sword and sadly these big companies and they CEO's will find out sooner or later that they made a huge mistake investing so much money in that one genre.
I also don't know if you noticed it but there is also a clear rise of tactical strategy RPG fans. I remember when big tactical RPG's like Fire Emblem would only sell 300-500K and would be considered a success, now Fire Emblem games sell over 3 million if I remember correctly Fire Emblem Three Houses sold almost 4 million, very close to 4 million, these are very impressive number for a genre what most people considered even more niche than turn based JRPG's.
But well we will see what time will bring. From my understanding the only genre what really died was the text based adventure one, but honestly is the most boring one, is a book essentially with you sometimes writing some words on your keyboard... Visual novels can at least give you something unique but text based adventures... I can see why they died out.
The music choice for this video is phenomenal
Nope. It's not dying. Persona 5 and the whole SMT franchise, Dragon Quest franchise, hell the goddamn POKEMON...
Turn-based is alive and well, no matter what the more ADHD triple-A wankers try to claim. Looking at you, nu-Final Fantasy devs.
And don't get me even started on the huge TBS genre. Countless months have been lost playing the one and the same Civilization skirmish with my buddies, and Xcom is loved by countless people.
The problem really are the zoomer GAMERS. Their endless narc-like seeking of that "rush" you speak of has literally poisoned endless games and genres. JRPGs especially used to be COMFY games, enjoyed like a long, epic book. Not something to get your adrenaline doze, but to live a moment in fantastical worlds, partake in an epic journey.
Yeah I think it was more of a shift with the times, turn based games kind of had to evolve to stay relevant especially with how crazy action games were getting. I think there is still a lot of variety in turn based if you are still looking for that comfy title but also a lot of action turn based to balance it out. And yeah turn based has been on a very good rise through recent years
Ah yes the "young people bad" argument.
@@dracopo8862 more like the young people "dumb" argument. The tiktok generation will be the end of gaming
@@uche007us They're not the ones making the games.
man im loving youtubes reccomendations recently, such a quality vid, keep it up ur gonna make it big
Edits on this one are absolutely fire, great work as always king 👑
We need them back, they are fine, and fun.
A quality JRPG video essay! I loved the use of Third Strike music too, I'm glad I found this channel recently.
Like your channel, just new to it. Great music too. Could use better balance when you're talking with the music -- I love that you let the music get bigger when you aren't talking, too -- but your editing is so good I'm sure you'll keep polishing.
I really have a hard time believing the games were turned base simply because of budget or computation limits. There was zelda. there was metroid. there was mario, etc etc all didnt have turn based and were on the same systems for a long time. Final Fantasy and other rpgs were turn based because of DND. people just took the tabletop version and made a game out of it with there own worlds and rule sets.
Your editing style and music choice is so fire
You forgot Metaphor: ReFantazio for Turn Based RPGs for 2024 while Digital Devil Saga IP is being handle by 1st Production than P-Studio who did Persona 3 Reload.
Actually RPGs didn't really start as turn based, JRPG wise. One of the earliest releases was Dragon Slayer, developed by Nihon Falcom for the PC-88. The game was essentially just a very early action RPG, without much of a story. Eventually more action RPGs were created as time went on like Ys (coming out a year after The Legend of Zelda), Mana, etc. Both sides have always kinda just coexisted with each other.
I don't see one dying out over the other because FF decided its next mainline entry was going to be an action RPG. Hell, even with its current reputation, Pokemon Scarlet & Violet still sold well, and now many people are anticipating the next Persona game after Persona 5's success. If anything, turn based is bigger than ever, with more people finding newer turn based games to play.
Very true, I moreso wanted to highlight how turn base was on a decline, then in recent years has been on an unstoppable rise but hasn’t yet hit that mainstream level just yet
is no one going to talk about the legend of heroes series ?
I've started that series, and it's good! I think some people don't talk about it because of the high level of commitment needed to really get into the series
Strange video, talks more about the decline of turn based instead of the revival.
I enjoyed this video. Thank you.
heads up bros this video is a trojan horse for action rpgs
sold me on scarlet nexus tho... dang
I hate the fact that your voice, the little edits you put into the video and the use of music are so good, but you keep the transition animations boring. Your videos are so enjoyable, keep it up man!
coming from smt, this convinced me to finally start dmc and scarlet nexus
Turn based are honestly my favorite games, ffx, persona4 and 5.
Love the video! Keep up the work bro
My take is that people crave dopamine and adrenaline especially in violent games or extremely difficult games, and turn based doesn't exactly give that same feeling, turn based has you strategically thinking your next move, and whiek it is fun ti some, the majority dont want to overthink or have yo use a lot of brain power to enjoy a game, so they like open world games with action games
This is my dream and i will keep dreaming so that I will see a FF 10-3 or a new mainline ff title that is turn based, atleast I have Persona 6 to 8 before that happens ahaha
pump i luv ur vids keep it up
Okay but not until final fantasy does it 💀
Edit: Damn good video with vibe af music tho
You should listen to the Unreal Tournament 3 OST, you'd like it. Specifically Deimos.
i’ll turn your base
I am turned on
Im kinda confused here. Where exactly is the decline? Also this year bg3 came out. Has turnbased mechanics ppl love it. Pokemon always sells aswell. I rly dont see a decline.
Unfortunately I started the video a bit before baldurs gate came out so I didn’t get a chance to include it, but I referenced the decline as being moreso around the ps3 generation of consoles
@@Pumpo ahhh i see what you mean. But id say thats more the rise of the arpg. Might be a glass half full/ half empty thing😅
I'm not so sure there is a decline in turn based JRPG besides Final Fantasy and even then we got Yakuza shifting in the opposite direction to balance it out somewhat.
"limitational" "costed". bro? those are not words.
As a person who from the new gen it's just that i haven't grew up with this genre
Yeah turn based really is at its best under situations of high difficulty, which is why SMT is such a stand out in the genre. But let's be real about SMT, it's definitely not a flawless series. Wandering around the desert with the world's blandest story and set of characters in SMT V is just not that interesting for most JRPG fans
Peak video
Quit making up problems, turn based is just as popular if not more than ever, idk if you heard about this game but it’s pretty niche and underrated, Baldurs Gate 3 is pretty fun. I know nobody knows this series but persona 3 has a remake, and I’m sure not many people are aware but Atlus also released a new game called Metaphor, don’t get me started on Yakuza: like a dragon
Bg3 is huge so no.
Idk action jrpgs are just boring to me. They lack the depth or sense of world building turn based jrpgs give me. I also do not want to stress my self out after a hard days work and just want to press the A button to give commands. Action games on the other hand require decent inputs to get by require more focus.
I haven't finished Scarlet because it's overlylong and overlyrepetative. Good idea, monotonous execution.
Clair obscure.
22:00 I actually hated that part of the game, felt so janky.
Hot take : I've never seen a turn based rpg that wouldn't be improved by being a tactical rpg
Boo
sorry but TURN BASED WAS dying.. way before u made the video.. persona 5 brought it back in 2017 (made it really popular look at sales numbers). now bg3. but before that there hasnt really been anything that good (yes ff but thats another story.)
Sorry kid, but you need to play more video games.