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The word God occurs 4444 times in the KJV Bible. God is the 4th word of the KJV Bible, the 444th word and the 4444th word. The word God occurs 3090 times in the Old Testament. There are 39 Old Testament Books and 27 New Testament Books The word bondage occurs 39 total times and the word liberty occurs 27 times. 39×27= 1053. All forms of the word preach occurs 153 times. Peter and Paul each occur in 153 verses, and the 153 time Peter appears is in Galatians 2:7. The word temple occurs 117 times in the New Testament. The word believe occurs 143 times in the KJV Bible. The word Father capitalized occurs 260 times in the KJV Bible. 117+143=260 The 143 time temple is mentioned in the KJV Bible is John 2:21, verse number 26117. Christ occurs 555 times in the KJV Bible. The word Heaven occurs 582 times. The word liberty occurs 27 times. 582-555=27 The number pi (π) also connects. Within the first 200 million digits of pi: 11111111 occurs 3 times. 22222222 occurs 1 time. 33333333 occurs 1 time. 44444444 occurs 2 times. 55555555 occurs 1 time 66666666 occurs 5 times 77777777 occurs 3 times. There are 31102 verses in the KJV Bible. All forms of the word preach occurs 153 times. The word Christ occurs 555 (as does all forms of the word righteous) times in the KJV Bible. All forms of the word faith occurs 360 times. 200 million/ 555 = 360360.36036 Twice the KJV Bible says "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God." Psalms 14:1 and Psalms 53:1 √2 is 1.4142 Psalms 14:1 is the 142 verse of Psalms in the KJV. The first verse of the KJV Bible has ten words. The square root of ten is 3.16 John 3:16
U all need a secret before u can experience Jesus healing energy. The Illuminati aka fallen angels aliens NASA what ever you want to call them in there flying tin cans. Can't get out of lower orbit because of the vacuum. Universe is only 25 thousand SQ miles big breathable air through out space angels have to breath. Mars is only 250 miles away sun an moon are much closer an only a acre big. Heaven is on Mars moon that's what all the thrusters are for space x Star ship try to punch through the vacuum and destroy Mars moon heaven. I cleaned out hell left the light's on. I ripped the soul out the devil after he went dragon just to make it a fair fight. Now u can experience Jesus healing energy all old aches and pains will be washed away takes 30 minutes best to relax and shut yr eyes.
The Tora also is a copy of the book of Enoch. Plagiarized at best. Does that really mean the black people are the real Jews. I am confused. No pun intended.
For some people, leaving the church is actually experiencing a death. It’s grieving. you’ve lost a way of being in the world to which you were deeply committed and in which you deeply believed. Of course it takes time to sort out. ❤
Hey Tom I can relate. I left AA a 12 step program about 15 years ago and I was very depressed. I had a certain way of thinking, but once I realized there was no objective evidence for any supernatural being I could no longer participate in a twelve step program
I became a fundamentalist Christian in high school. Married - kids - earned BS in Religious Ed and later a Masters at a Christian Univ. Became a missionary and moved my family to three different countries over 18 years. As I lived and traveled the globe, I found that the horrble broken people I set out to redeem were not as bad as I'd been told. In fact, the overwhelming majority (like 99.9%) were quite decent. In fact, the more I experienced people in so many different cultures, the less the bible's description of people or reality in general made sense. Much like Dr Kipp and his wife, I eventually realized that this was an illusion. I see a common pattern in many deconstruction stories including Dr. Davis' and mine. A Christian zealot goes all in - even becomes a fulltime professional Christian; only to find that the deeper they go and the better they understand it, the less plausible it becomes. Thanks to you both for this interview. It makes me happy that others are able to gradually learn/think their way out of potent ideologies.
Please don’t distort things (not that I think you are intentional doing so). I was an atheist and I converted. I received my degree in philosophy and I am currently busy with my theology degree. So why was I convinced while you and others weren’t? I think that the lens that the majority of Protestants (I am a Protestant) view the world through is very much a product of the overly analytical enlightenment period. Essentially I boils down to the genetic fallacy, mixed with not seeing the the biblical scriptures are meant to drive you towards a spiritual experience and not just a collection of historically verifiable facts. What do I mean? God uses the weak things to confound the strong, so why would you expect the Bible to have no human flaws? If God is not real, there’s a massive existential contradiction lurking in the background of your mind: 1. All of the good people you met will end in an eternity of nothingness; everything will end at the grave. So, 2. How doesn’t the absurdity of that drive you back to belief in God? Why should verifiability and historical accuracy have preference over what is written on your heart? If God does not exist, this entire quest is futile and objectivity itself is dismantled and destroyed.
@brianbachinger6357 and there's the fundamental misunderstanding. It does not bother most atheists that life ends in death and there's nothing after it. The fact that our lives just end makes life MORE valuable to me, that's all the more reason to live in the present and enjoy my life now rather than trying to appease and repent to an angry God for the hope of an afterlife that nobody can ever prove exists. Everything ending in a grave isn't absurd at all, it's the most natural thing about our existence. We die and that's what makes life valuable.
@@brianbachinger6357 I appreciate your concern, but see your argument as Presuppositional dogma. (truth written on our hearts, God uses the weak to confound the wise, etc.) I once held and preached that very view; but life experience exposed its fallacies. In the subsequent decades, viewing my formerly deeply-held beliefs through genuine critical thinking ( outsider's test), it is more obvious each day that this is an unsubstantiated narrative.
Many fundamentalists think people leave the faith because they want to have a hedonistic lifestyle. In fact, for most people, leaving the faith is a years-long struggle trying all they can to stay in the faith. For me that struggle lasted about 15 years. It was like trench warfare, in which I got beaten back from trench to trench, with my latest beliefs and sentiments being destroyed along the way. Finally I realized that this was not a battle I could win, and no longer even wanted to win.
Yours was an intellectual faith. "The flesh profiteth nothing" someone said. You recall the thief on the cross? Jesus didn't tell him the 5 Aquinas rational proofs for the existence of God right?
Well, they at least named the channel correctly. Myth vision. Eternity is not something you want to play with. "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me."
Kipp, thanks so much for sharing your story. I left Christianity in about 1968 or 69 but like you, I remain an ardent student of the Bible, and, in my case, a professional historian. Many many thanks
@@ct8888 American Baptist. Preachers kid. Never missed a Sunday in 18 years. Licensed minister by the age of 18 and an unbeliever by 20, although the seeds of doubt had been germinating for quite some time. Thomas Paine and Bertrand Russell were perhaps the two individuals most responsible for that, but learning in general has a tendency to move one away from superstition. By the way, American Baptist were NOT fundamentalist at that time, although the denomination swung considerably more conservative starting about 30 years or so ago.
As a Paineite, I assume you're a fan of Thomas Paine, right? That would likely mean you've studied Paine's writings on the pagan parallels of Christianity.
I clicked on this but I didn’t really have any intention of sitting through a forty-five minute video. However, once Dr. Kipp started talking, I couldn’t stop listening. I was completely captivated by his story. Thank you Derek, for sharing your conversation with him so that he could share with us. I’m glad that I stayed.
Incredible, I was raised Southern Baptist and also got to see the Wonderful World of Disney as it came on the TV and had to turn it off to go to church just a few minutes into it. I never heard anybody else complain.😂
Me too even tho I never had one myself. I was just born a skeptic I suppose. Never could believe the magic stuff. Learned about too many gods as a very young child so this was just one more story. It fascinates me how people can believe at all. Like how is it sorted in their brains…magic flying elephants=Not real. Magic Disappearing bodies reappearing=Jesus is real. I just can’t understand ignoring logic. How? Magic Santa=real until age 8. Magic Jesus=real not like Santa. How? Make it make sense! idk… It’s still frustrating to me. But I love to listen to the early bible scholars, especially New testament stuff.. comparisons to the Hellenistic movements are very relevant. Literary Criticism is definitely a big thing in helping people deconstruct. I was lucky that my mom (even tho a believer) was quite up on biblical criticism when I was young. She didn’t take it all seriously but she wanted a god to be in charge and Jesus was son of god to her not the same as god.
I can’t express enough the trauma that I had from being in the seventh day Adventist church , it took me 3-4 years to not be afraid to go to the shop on a Saturday (sabbath) I remember being terrified to burn incense 😂 religious trauma is so so real
@@fidesnonsequitur-bf5cf well done I’m eating bacon I still haven’t done that !! Now I swim on Saturdays and buy food in stores and go out to restaurants. Took me while to get here but I’m so free and happy now
I was in an off shoot of the World Wide church of god. I know all about that feeling of “breaking the sabbath”. Took me awhile too. Freedom from religion is beautiful.
@@sharonrotenizer5646 what even is breaking the sabbath it’s so insane !! I was also afraid to clean my house or have fun with my child !! Now I swim in the ocean and have fun on Saturdays and it’s great
i play piano and did a gig for them on easter. Granted i know NOTHING about them besides the no meat thing, and dont know them besides this one interaction. And I have to admit they were the nicest Christians I have ever met. They payed me an extra $100 than they initially offered for no reason, invited me to the musicians table for food after service, were all smiles and warm, talked to me as a complete stranger, and werent pushy trying me to join or asking me about my faith. Was also a very diverse group of people all getting along. So like i said idk anything about them at all, but the one time i met with 7th day advents they were amazing people, every single one.
As the parent of two special needs kids, I relate very strongly to what Dr. Kipp Davis says about how this prompted him to reconsider the faith. Adding in the textual issues, and without any corroborating supernatural evidences, and you've got a ready-made recipe for collapsing an entire belief system.
I went to the same church as Kipp growing up, but I was several years older. I remember feisty little Kipp always having a testimony to share every time there was opportunity to give a testimony. I never knew what happened to him (I moved out of our city long before he would have graduated from high school.) Sorry to hear he's left the faith. Mine has deconstructed and reconstructed, but my heart and mind will not let me leave it all behind.
I appreciated how he left the church. Literally, it was no longer speaking his language. And he and his family found out it was kind of nice to not have to show up for that every week. The only thing i miss is coffee hour, where everybody is downstairs in the church basement, talking and laughing, kids are tearing around, older people, younger people, middle aged people all together. I was UCC. I often joke that I want to start the UCCH-the United Church of Coffee Hour. No boring, pointless “worship” involved, just show up for coffee hour!
@@ancientflames Almost like that, except the churches I have gone to have had people of all ages and from so many neighborhoods and walks of life. I miss that part, but, yeah-friends out for brunch or coffee is a close second.
@@kjmav10135no reason you can't have that without church. Im my progressive town half the churches are like that 😂 open Buddhists, atheists, chistians
@@marcomoreno6748I think the problem is that with church it is many people, not just those you think to invite, coming together on a regular basis. To have a large group of people get together for no reason except community is more difficult. Maybe you can have it as an actual community center thing, if you have a community center. But you probably need to have a purpose like neighborhood renewal and schedule activities. It takes church and Hell to get people out of their house on Sunday to congregate on an regular basis.
I thought I was the only kid who was dragged to church 3 times every week. My parents also worked for the church (for free), mom doing daycare, dad was an usher/deacon and also counted the money. I spent an average of about 7 hours each week in church 😢
I’ve been saying for years that apologetics isn’t really for non-Christians but rather a tool to affirm faith in the believer. Nice to hear someone else make this observation.
Ironically, sooner or later we ALL will have to deal with GOD!!! I don't know if you are a Skull & Bones member or if you just like that profile pic, just remember God is the true "sooner or later."
@@747_Ryan You are in a cult, there is no irony, the message is meant for you and your kind. Skull and Crossbones is from a different cult (Mithraic Pirates et. al), which I ape to scare simple minded persons...
@@747_Ryanthere might be a god. The Christian god is fake right now and always has been and understanding how Jesus fails to fulfill the prophecies of messiah even if the gospels were perfect recordings is a very simple way to do that. In addition you should study the similarities between Judaism and the Canaanite religions that in my opinion it evolved out of. I can lead you to the water, but I cannot make you drink. Also if Gods ultimate argument is that he will light me on fire for eternity if I don’t do what he says, he’s not good, he’s just a control freak. If he was good he would redeem every sinner, work to change their minds, show them how their sin was truly evil. But he doesnt, because he doesn’t exist.
This is an amazing story of when intelligent people come face to face with the discrepancies between the faulty theological claims of christianity and reality itself. It doesn't add up! Then you see how hollow it is, and the whole thing collapses like the mirage it actually is. And people are better for it! Great video, thanks.
@@criticaloptimist7961 Too many to list. Many things in the bible are supposed to be symbolical, yet fundamentalist Christians take everything literal. Jesus was not born on 25th December. There was no real Ark with Noah and all his family and animals .It was symbolic about he flood and sinking of Atlantis. Some people intuitionally moved away earlier but no longer had all the knowledge and had to start over again like in the stone age. Reincarnation also was in the original gospels but when the bible was put together they no longer wanted it to be included since they wanted more power over the people.
Amazing story Dr Davis. Thank you for your scholarship and for adopting. As a father and grandfather I truly admire people like you Derek and your wives who put our children first. Keep on keeping on and thank you for all you do
I can relate totally, parents split at 15 but drugs etc took over, now live out west in Alberta! Been listening to you guys for about two years now! Great info in learning about Biblical stuff!
As a parent of an adopted child with attachment issues, I honor Dr. Kipp’s trial by fire! As a physician I have seen innocent suffering and cruelty beyond belief. I am not yet a complete atheist, rather an bewildered humanist agnostic because it is all far beyond justification of ANY sort! Thank you Dr. Kipp for your honesty, commitment and humanity! Great interview, Derrick! Thanks!❤
Dear Doctor @Elena. I can appreciate your place as an agnostic. I was born into a Christian family. But exposure to racism early in my undergraduate years made angry with God for allowing certain things to exist. This passionate anti-theism continued into my medical school years where it forced me to take a leave of absence. I later calmed down and returned to finish medical school, but remained agnostic for a total of 13 years, all through which I stayed away from church. Then I returned to church. Why? Coming from an underdeveloped country, I could keep myself busy enough to forget about God matters. But a time came when my efforts to help my country became totally fruitless. It was exasperating. An evangelist suggested that I was confused, and that it was because I didn't "know God". His brief words struck me as true, and suddenly, deep in my heart, I wished I knew God. So, I developed this hunger to really know God. It led me to Pentecostal Christianity where I believed or hoped I would find him. My first miraculous experience came as a shock. In the middle of a fast of a few days, I needed to do physical work. The next day, I had disturbing aches. But I didn't want to take medication, thinking, rightly or wrongly, that is would spoil my fast. So, I prayed instead for "God" to remove the pain. Nothing happened. A thought came to me, Why not pray in Jesus name? So, where I was kneeling, I said, "Father, heal me in Jesus name!" And within a second, a sensation of heat came all over me, and the aches disappeared! It was so surprising I literally jumped to my feet and looked myself over. I said to myself, "Wow! So things like this could happen, and I'd had no experience of it all my life!" "So, there's a realm of the world I'd been ignorant of for 34 years!" I was a practicing medical doctor, and what I had just witnessed made no scientific sense. With such experience alone, it became impossible to even contemplate agnosticism again. I may not be able to convince others, just like stories of miracles I had heard growing up meant absolutely nothing to me. But I suddenly belonged to a new reality. Thus began my serious journey into the Bible and relevant extra biblical materials. I even learnt Hebrew and some Greek to avoid the biases of translators. A decade and half ago, I ran into Richard Dawkins' book, The God Delusion. Ordinarily, this book would have made a lot of sense to me. But now I could see he was very wrong, though he could convince many. I decided to write a rejoinder to his book. I couldn't plead my very private experiences. More objective material would be needed to counter his thesis. My excursion into the scriptures and associated historical materials had shown me such objective evidence of the reality, not just of God, but of Yahweh of the Hebrew bible, existed. So, I put pen to paper, or rather, fingers to the keyboard, and typed out a rejoinder. It is titled, "The Yahweh Reality", and published online, 2011, at www.theyahwehreality.wordpress.com . I invite you to look at it. It looks at instances of undeniable fulfillment of prophecy, while pointing out the equivalence of such evidence with prediction from experiments, or hypothesis testing, as a basis for acquisition of knowledge in the sciences. Look at it, and it will help you lay your agnosticism to rest. Dr Kipp Davis and Derrick, and many of the anti missionaries he interviews would also benefit from my rejoinder to Dawkins. Regards
@@yahkamba7788 Dear y m You seem to be a kind person so thank you for that kindness. What kind of miracle producing deity allows the world’s immense sufferings eg.babies to be burned by cigarettes or have their brains bashed out by their own parents? Where was the miracle? What deity could EVER allow it, or justify allowing it?! I would NEVER worship such a deity! I do not pretend to understand the great consciousness that we swim in and are apparently part of…it is a terrible mystery of mysteries and rather than shake my fist at the unfairness of it all or plead to a heartless deity hoping for some random miracle I choose to work for humanity to try to do my part to improve the world. Thus I consider my self a humanist agnostic. I can never understand or condone this whatever-it-is that is going on. I feel I would be EVIL if I did. I know a lot of near-death experiencers find love on the “other side” and that they say we are immortal….This world is just too cruel to justify for ANY reason. I choose like Bart Ehrman to spend my two cents of life toward serving humanity to at least help who I can ; to love who I can.
@@elenahofmann-smith5723 Yes, humanism certainly has its place. That was my path too, trying my best to help my poor country, Nigeria. I had returned from a US medical school in 1983 to meet an economy called a raw material enclave already in austerity and struggling to pay salaries and import scarce goods. The solution in the developed world would have been simply to "stimulate the economy". More production would take place, and all would be well again. But this option was not available for raw material enclaves because of the absence of a production base, otherwise called a technological base. In the absence of this base the country could not create jobs and wealth. The growing population then had to depend on imports paid for by non expanding raw material exports. So, increasing per capita poverty is inevitable. In an already politically unstable country, increasing poverty meant a risk of future instability, violence and bloodshed, with different subgroups fighting to sustain or increase their share of the limited national income. I could see this prospect, and it troubled me enough for me to play down my medical career, to give myself time to advocate the only possible solution - the country setting up a technological base as an emergency. I began writing newspaper columns on the subject, attending trade and development seminars, and visiting government economic planning ministries. After two years of such efforts, I could make no headway. And things were getting worse for the country by the day. Just didn't seem to have the wisdom or maturity to reach the development economists managing the economy. Those that could best understand me were the physical scientists and engineers, those responsible for creating goods from raw materials in developed countries, but they had no say. Those in charge, the economists, could not understand me. Watching the country continue its slide into a gruesome future was unbearable. This was why my spirit silently cried for help. It seems to say, if God could help, why not. Such was my humanistic path to its end. I would say I have since then entered what one might now call "spiritual humanism". It entails applying those principles, sociological, technological and spiritual, that one can discern outside and inside the religious scriptures towards the healing of sick societies. It is a new work in progress. So, I appreciate your humanistic agnosticism. Every idealist humanist without access to the spiritual realm can be found there. Every? Let's just say, Many. The spiritual realm is a realm of knowledge, and has value like the other more generally accessible forms of knowledge, like that in the hard sciences, social sciences and humanities. Spiritual knowledge can also serve good or evil. Knowledge of it for good allows me to speak of "spiritual humanism". And it has made my efforts to help my country more knowledge and evidence based, and more hopeful. If I had not somehow overcome my anger with God for all the disorder in the world, I would probably have gone from my exasperation over my inability to help my country move away from its journey to bloodshed and self-destruction, to depression and .... As Solomon said, With much knowledge is much sorrow. Today, I am able to persevere in my efforts because they have a better yield. So, I appreciate your sense of disappointment with whatever God may exist. I have been there too. Richard Dawkins, in his book, The God Delusion, had a whole chapter devoted to a Yahweh he saw as a "cruel ogre". Having drawn closer to Yahweh, since I first sought him back in 1986, I can at least now say a few things on his behalf. My rejoinder to Dawkins, The Yahweh Reality, mentioned in my last reply, has a section near the end, titled, "Dawkins versus Yahweh". It is listed among the "Contents", and clicking its hyperlink takes you directly to the section. You may want to look at it. One little plea on my part. Going over the passage recently, I saw one rather inappropriate word I had used, the word "silly", stand out. The proper word should have been simply "wrong". "Silly" conveys a disrespectful nuance I regret. Please make the change as you read. Again, you can find the rejoinder at www.theyahwehreality.wordpress.com . Regards.
@@yahkamba7788 Spread the word about Mubarak Bala. A persecuted humanist in Nigeria. Such a travesty! Free Mubarak Bala! Incidentally, unfounded beliefs and magical thinking leads to apostasy and blasphemy laws that target non believers.
I will testify this to you. I was exactly like these two guys I am the worst of sinners. 1990 God raised me from the dead totally healed me from osteosarcoma cancer. I experience the judgement throne , falling on my knees unwillingly screaming out " Jesus Christ is Lord ,God " came back told my family I don't believe in what they believe in anyone I was a believer in Christ. Eventually hated God and turn a full time atheist for three years. Today I am a follower of Jesus Christ. We have many believers in Christ but few followers they are different. Jesus Christ is God and His words are true this I can say.
@@tonirickett2422 my mother gave me a book of illustrated Greek myths when I was about 7 and it seemed as valid (and more exciting) a religion as any 😊
I love Dr. Kipp, his playlist on Israelite Religion (now even better and saved on my phone thanks to MVP courses) was the base of my deconversion. I watched that playlist over and over and over…. I’ve always believed I knew the Old Testament, I’m still crazy about it and absolutely fascinated by it …. Then I found dr. Kipp 😅 So thank you so much for all you do and sharing your intense deconversion with us. It did bring me a lot of pain during the mourning phase of having lost my Father Jehovah. But was so liberating once it was over😊
I am a Christian embarking on a Ph.D in Theology. I have been inspired to go deeper by this interview. I think he accurately depicted issues with apologetics. Even in my studies, I’ll be reading Dr. Davis and his views. Not to debunk them, but because I have appreciated his story, honesty, and openness. Maybe someday we will meet and sit down for a great discussion. This is one of the best interviews I have seen on this topic. The host truly allowed Dr. Davis to fully share his story. Thank you for this. Much respect!
@@greglogan7706 I do find it interesting. But my desire to study is based on my love for Christ and the Bible. Not in a simple grasp for knowledge. However, I don’t think your statement about Jesus not having a PhD reflects a proper equivalency. Jesus, if you believe He is divine, would not need a PhD in the study of Jesus. It would be like asking why doesn’t Shakespeare have a degree in Shakespearen literature. :-) Paul might be a better fit. He wrote most of the New Testament. He was a Pharisee trained in Jewish doctrine. God used that to put forth systematic understandings of theology like in Romans. Paul’s education played into how God used him. Peter was different and God used him too. So I feel if a believer is feeling led into theological study, he should follow that pursuit. If not, he should not. :-) These scriptures speak to me personally, especially with all the doctrinal error I’ve seen in the churches where I grew up. Thanks! “(Study to show yourself approved… - KJV) Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.” 2 Timothy 2:15 ESV bible.com/bible/59/2ti.2.15.ESV “…always being prepared to make a defense (give an answer) to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,” 1 Peter 3:15 ESV bible.com/bible/59/1pe.3.15.ESV
@@greglogan7706 I love this question. Thank you. I was raised in church but became an atheist early in life, but later I became a believer. Kind of like Dr. Davis said, I love the Bible. But different from Dr. Davis, the more I study, the stronger my walk becomes. I’m not sure why one person goes one way and one person goes another. But, possibly because of my experiences, study brings me closer. Also, as I write songs, share my story, and talk to others, having this knowledge has helped me see more clearly, and helped others over obstacles to faith that were based on misinformation and misunderstanding. I don’t have all the answers, but what I have learned, I share. :-) Thank you again for these questions! I appreciate your willingness to hear the responses. Blessings!
@@bradirons I don't mean to be a pest so no need to follow up if you do not wish Admittedly I am wondering what the Bible has to do with Christianity? I get why so many who raised on the Bible as essentially being God (which really is simply reflective of Evangelical bibliology as practiced) that when the Bible is dispelled simply fly the coop - not just of the Bible but of God himself In contrast the Bible was never particularly relevant to my faith though at a certain point I did buy the evangelical bibliology - but have for sometime outgrown it... and essentially totally identify with the issues raised by critical scholarship. However I would add - as I think doctor Kipp would also add - this doesn't mean the Bible so much is a problem but the Evangelical use of the Bible is a very severe problem.
The relief that I felt when it was revealed in my marriage that I was no longer a believer and my husband wasn’t either.❤❤❤❤ That transparency is so wonderful. Really feel free to be myself with him. He can be free with me.
Thanks Dr Kipp! I think this group of scholars is doing important work helping people through what can be a very painful process. I never loved the Bible until I became an atheist. Once you start really reading it in context, it literally becomes the greatest story ever told. Coming out to my mom was tough, but what's worse is that I dare not have these discussions with her because she needs her faith to be okay. I think that's why so many people cling to their faith in the face of so much cognitive dissonance. They need life to have some meaning, and they are too scared to make their own meaning. It's interesting that you lost your faith partially due to the serious commitments you made to your family. I love that so much, as my big childhood trauma stems from my parents choosing their god over their children every time. Keep doing the good work!
A lot of people need the faith they have to be okay mentally. Depending on the family environment and teachings, this can be worse and develop into a pseudo addiction, where they want church more and more because it gives them a break from whatever they're going through.
@@nappa3550 yes. I also think it tends to be people who can’t make their own meaning in life. The ones who do everything by the book. The ones who play by all the rules. The Uncreative type. These are people who enjoy being told what to do because they don’t want to think for themselves. Almost as if they don’t trust themselves. I would say I admitted to myself that I didn’t believe in a deity about the same time I decided that I was a trustworthy person even though I was raised to believe differently. I think it’s related. I make my own meaning, and I’m very happy and fulfilled.
@@heidismutti I'd sum it up more as being simple minded. On the contrary, I believe in God still, just through a very "liberal" lense. The further right you go (in terms of Christianity) the more simple minded and mentally unwell people are. I grew up in that, but I'd almost be willing to say I've been led almost entirely out of it.
@@nappa3550 I would agree with simple minded, but not stupid or mentally unwell. My mom, for example, is evangelical, always has been. She is neither stupid nor insane, but what she IS is rigid in her thinking about the only correct way to live her life.
You guys are the best. Thank you so much for helping me accept and come to peace with leaving religion but still respecting it. I consider you friends and seek out all your new content. ❤❤❤
Very interesting, even dramatic. Thank you. Like you I asked Jesus into my heart at five. Or so my mother told me, I was baptized at 10 in a muddy river on the mission field by my father. But unlike you, I never really believed to the point of dedicating myself to all the intense training I had through Christian schools and college. It didn’t move me. By grad school, some of the problems were already clear and I quit. Today I learn a great deal from you p Derick and the people you cite plus many more. Thanks again.
I can testify that Jesus Christ is Lord he raised me from the dead in 1990 totally healed me from a giant malignant tumor osteosarcoma cancer. One year later I hated God and was an Atheist three years later The Lord refill me with His spirit and I am now a follower of Christ and not just a believer. Jesus Christ is God it's simple like that we all will be judge by Him no other He is the light and love. That's as simple as it is.
That was intense! I was raised in a mainstream Protestant church, so did not have Fundigelical Brain Damage. One read-through of the Bible at age 13 cured me. I just had to fly under the radar until I was out on my own. The funniest part was my last year in Boy Scouts, when I was appointed troop chaplain. I had a booming bass radio voice, so if they needed to offend Jesus with a public prayer, I was their boy. So my story had the same archetypes as Dr. Kipp's, but with the volume turned down from 11 to 1.
reminder for people who love mythvision videos but the length is daunting , along with personal time constraints. Most of Derek's guests are so well spoken that theyre easily understood at 1.5× speed. It may take a minute to get use to but quickly it sounds normal wirh time saved. 👍
@@DrKippDavis Ha, no its definitely not your problem Mr Davis. Nor is it a problem at all. You have good cadence in your speaking . And I enjoyed hearing your story . 👍 Because theres only so much time in a day I speed up nearly 95 % of the long form videos I watch. Its the people who lack good cadence that need to be listened to at regular speed. Keep up the good work.
@@DrKippDavis Your pace is natural and fine! I am never daunted by the length of time on things I want to watch. Because I can watch and work at the same time. I need long things to listen to! Always enjoy your explanations!
As a former fundamentalist Christian I now know that most of us are just decent humans who make mistakes rather than sinners who deserve condemnation. Hopefully we learn as we go and correct the imperfections along the way.
Most of us sinner's who made a mistake not condemnation.Thats the whole point of a saviour to save a wayward soul not torment and destroy.Christianity as promoted in gospel could be our next last best hope.
@@donb9773 if you buy the claim that each and every wrongdoing (sin) merits an eternity of conscience torment facilitated by the God who designed the system, then yes. We all "need" to be saved from the loving God foaming at the mouth with wrath to destroy us.
@@skippy675 Going with the Anunnaki story of humans being created as beast of burden only story of humans that make sense.Our destiny merely serve and suffer so our creator doesn't have to. The cruelty inflicted was unjust then one of them stood up for us to ease our suffering .We were singled out for destruction by the tyrant but the effort of the advocate has given second chance so we should give each other a second chance
@@donb9773 will have to look it up. The only version of Christianity i am familiar with describes the tyrant (God the Father) and advocate (Jesus the son) as different persona of the same being.
Don't get too confident about the none's understanding, some people just read the Bibles/Qurans without understanding them and become non-religious or anti-religious. But certainly anyone that studies these things/bibliolatries in context becomes at least Liberal religious. You have to over-simplify to become a bibliolatrist Bible/Quran fundie just by allowing the book to mesmerize and hypnotize you.
I'm skeptical most churchgoers read the Bible, let alone understand it. My church services I've been to, the pastor/preacher jumps all around the book reading verses out of context and throws in an anecdote and some speculation, and wraps it up with relating it to our modern lives, sing songs, go home. Critically reading the text is not something I've experienced *in church*.
Been reading and studying the Bible since 8; more methodically since my late teens and I am in my late 40s. I don’t have a big stage, big church. Have seen a lot of drama, abuse, personal struggles and everything else in between. But, I am Still a Christian by the grace of God, even more zealous than when I started. A person who doesn’t know Jesus will go back. A person who has understood Jesus by the gracious work of God, will not go back. Nothing complicated about it. And nothing to deconstruct if you were a true Christian.
He came to set the captives free was the first book I ever read....and I bought that shit too bruh. I'm still cleaning up the wreckage of my life from that shit
I started questioning everything when I was 8. I was taught the difference between fantasy and reality but even as a precocious kid everything I read in the Bible seemed to fall in the fantasy category and so I couldn’t understand why I was punished for constantly asking my preacher questions. I was and am a voracious reader and by age 10 I had read the whole thing and I just doubted it all. It took another decade for me to fully walk away from the community aspect of it all. It’s been total freedom for the next 24 years.
Awesome program! Dr. Davis’s life story gives some helpful perspective to understanding what he is now doing with his deep knowledge of the history of the Christian religion. Thanks for sharing this.
I've been watching a lot of Dr. Kipp's videos lately, and somehow did not see this video until now. I was thrilled to know that he has a Reformed background as I do. I am a former OPC/PCA believer.
I loved this video... Everyone has a story and Kip's was fascinating, and told so honestly and humbly.... kudos to you for just letting Kip talk uninterrupted... too few interviewers feel they need to 'steer' or 'comment upon' a guest's story... the world could use a lot more good listeners like yourself... Also, Kip's last line was perfect - he 'stuck the landing' with a '10'. Thanks!!
Brilliant mind. Compelling story, parenthood details' life choice changes, etc. His strict focused scholarship was developed early as a Christian. As an apostate, his knowledge of the bible must make for interesting objective criticism. Great interview.
Love these kinds of interviews, where we hear both their journey and why they are still passionate about scriptures & ancient cultures even if they aren't theists any longer.
So refreshing to hear this discussed openly. I was well trained, music ministry, nursing home ministry, in church for services and classes 5-6 days a week, of course the soul winning & bus ministry as well. At 14, I was training adults in soul winning and teaching music lessons. Home life was extremely abusive(mother-shaytered skull n facial bones over a decade). Of course we were taught God is like a parent to us. So I was in constant fear of dying and landing in hell. By 15, I had notebooks full of questions from old to new testament. Of Course you learn quickly NOT to voice inconsistencies or questions(especially in a xtian school!l. Once I fully allowed myself to really QUESTION the bible, I was so guilt ridden. But I just could Not continue believing. At some point during my 15th year(age) I was removed from my home and sent too family in another state. Of course back then, we didn't have internet and finding resources to study were difficult. But I knew I'd NEVER go back to another christian faith, never. I am now 58, I left all organized religion by early 20's, I had already pulled away, but by then, I knew I was dine and never looked back.
Fascinating. As a person who finds history and religion exciting I find myself looking for reliable, credible resources. One of the questions I use to determine the veracity of a source is, who is this person and what are their biases. Where are they coming from. Dr. Kipp Davis is the genuine article. A seeker of the truth and a great teacher. Great questions. Great interview.
Around 41:45 he expresses my feelings on the Bible so well. Dr Bart Ehrnan and this gentleman as well as many other honest scholars, we really owe a debt to their efforts.
Im Jewish and i was raised religious. When I became an atheist it was a bit sad but I wasn't angry, afraid, or any strong emotion. But my Christian friends??? When they left the Church they all had crisis! They all had such a hard time that i didn't. It made me a little worried abiut how Christians bring their children up. I always felt sad for Christian children who are raised with the devil and hell and shame. Thats just not something Jewish people do. I dont have any religious trauma but my former Christian friends all do. I think the Church needs to change.
Christianity in US has a lot of awful incentives to keep the faith, not just hell fearmonger but the whole of apologetics' schtick. I don't know much at all about Jewish communities to compare if they have subgroups of similar literal approach but the logistics and somewhat self-segregated communities are successful enough to allow even communities of Creationists to continue existing today with all education and information available. I expect breaking faith would signify becoming ostracized from such communities, at least to an extent, and that could be particularly devastating when said communities also make religion such a strong part of your identity.
My deconstruction happened bit by bit, like being on a raft in a river and losing one plank at a time. Letting go of the plank 'the Bible is true' was the last step before I came out to myself and family as an ex-Christian. It has been tough, but also, as many here say, very liberating.
I remember remarking to a JW I was talking to that “they” never seemed to read Christian literature outside their faith group. By literature, I meant, evangelical Christian literature. Later that day I realized I was the biggest hypocrite. I never read much religious literature outside of my faith group either. It started with reading books on world religions and evolved into literature written by liberal theological scholars, you know, the kind of books you somehow just don’t see in a church library. It took about 8 years of fighting with myself and realizing I can’t deal with the friction the cognitive dissonance was causing. I was mad at myself and still am that I didn’t take any time to seriously vet the things my religious tradition taught me. I just blindly believed.
I’m going through my own deconstruction and it’s a really lonely road when everyone around you is Christian. It’s hard pretending and I want to tell those closest to me, but the fear of rejection is real. Thank you for sharing!
Thanks for sharing! Growing up Baptist in the US Midwest, I share several similarities with Kipp's early years, down to CHIC tracts as a preferred conversion tool, and the problem with Disney's choice of showtime, yes, Sundays at 6pm! We used to condemn (and secretly envy) other families that didn't show up for Sunday evening worship, convinced they were having more fun than we were. I even recall my mother expressing her suspicions aloud that Disney did this just to keep people from going to church.
I went to boarding school for 5 years in the early 70s. I had to attend mass every morning; the first two years in Latin no less. My indoctrination started from birth really and I was made to fear god as a child. He never was presented to me as a figure of love. He was a figure to fear. Much later on, my son who was 16 at the time, helped me open my eyes about the whole thing. Somewhere in me, I never did believe. I de-converted in my late adult life and it was a slow process.
I had this conversation last week with my wife, who also grew up Evangelical. But, because she lived on a farm, they were often snowed in on Sunday evenings, and she got to see the occasional episode. It dawned on me in that moment that I was literally in church EVERY Sunday night of my entire childhood. We NEVER missed a service because, in the city, there were never any excuses to do so.
@@DrKippDavis yup. Same here. Also, my mom was the main pianist for the church, so, she had to be there. That vcr we got in ‘89 changed my life! Anyway, I sincerely appreciate all the effort, both of you fellas do. It makes a huge difference to have knowledge, and to know many people are going through the same, difficult changes. Keep doing the “Lord’s” work ;) Cheers!
As a Christian my understanding and engagement with the Bible has benefited immensely from scholars like Kipp. I completely agree that the modern apologetics industry is mostly concerned with soothing Christian anxieties using academic language. Critical study and faith aren't mutually exclusive, and Christianity is fortunately much broader than Protestant Evangelicalism.
Even though he was a failed end times preacher? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; ***and then he shall reward every man according to his works.*** Truly I tell you, ***some who are standing here will not taste death*** before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom Matthew 16:27-28 *CHRISTIAN APOLOGETIC RATIONALIZATIONS* *Rationalization #1: Matthew 16:28 refers to Jesus’ transfiguration, not his second coming.* The transfiguration of Jesus is a story recorded in Matthew 17, Mark 9, and Luke 9. *The preceding verse (verse 27) starts off the description of Jesus’ coming by saying he would come “in glory” with angels to dole out judgment to “every man”. That is not what happened in the transfiguration stories. Therefore, the explanation doesn’t work.* Some try to make it work by separating verse 28 from the preceding verse so that the two verses talk about different “comings”. This is a baseless tinkering with the passage in order to make a doctrine fit the scripture. The same Christians who do this will accuse other of taking verses out of context when they disagree with an interpretation. Yet, this is exactly what they do here. *Rationalization #2: The word translated “generation” can mean “race”. So, Jesus meant the Jewish race would not die out before he returns.* This is a manufactured definition to suit doctrinal purposes. *When you see “generation” in the New Testament is means just that - people living in a particular era, not a race of people.* Elsewhere when he speaks of the Jews, he does so by saying “Jews”. It’s rather strange that he would speak cryptically in just this one instance. *Rationalization #3: When Jesus said “this generation shall not pass away” he meant the generation living at the time of the end times tribulation.* *Correct! Jesus told his followers that they would go through persecution. So, he apparently thought they would be the generation living at the time of the end.* It is evident in the writings of the New Testament that first century Christians saw the tribulations they were going through as a fulfillment of Jesus’ prediction about the end times and the tribulation. If they saw it as such, modern Christians have no real justification not to see it that way as well. Notice that Jesus didn’t say *“that generation”* - which would be the normal way of referring to a future generation. *He said “this generation”.* ***Besides through a plain common sense reading of the text, we know he meant the people alive while he was speaking because he said that some of his listeners (and the high priest at his trial) would still be alive to see his return to Earth.*** *Rationalization #4: When Jesus said that some of his listeners would be alive to see him return, he was talking about the Day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit descended on the church.* This is another explanation that is so far from rational that is it hard to accept that anyone sincerely believes it. The Book of Acts tells the story of the Holy Spirit appearing over the heads of the saints as tongues of fire endowing them with the magical ability to speak in unlearned languages. *There is no mention of them seeing Jesus in the clouds with angels. The supposed event did not accompany the final judgment. None of the things Jesus said would occur at his return happened on the Day of Pentecost.* *Rationalization #5: When it was revealed to John in his visions that Jesus would come quickly, it is to happen on God’s time scale, not a human time scale. “The time is near” and “coming quickly” are not to be taken literally. To God a thousand years is a day.* This is actually the first Christian attempt (found in 2 Peter 3) to explain away the fact that Jesus had not come as expected. *Believers of the time had begun to waver in their faith because Jesus had not come back as promised.* The writer tells them not to listen to people who say, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” (2 Peter 3:4) By “fathers”, he evidently means the founding fathers of the faith who had all died by that time. *This is evidence that almost from the start of Christianity, believers have been wrestling with the apparent failure of their savior’s end times prophecy.* In verse 8, the writer tries to reassure them by saying, “with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” and continues in the next verse to say that the Lord is not slacking on his promise. He basically tries to make the argument that time is meaningless to God. *This passage is in obvious contradiction to what Jesus himself said about his return and everything else written in the New Testament about it.* This contradiction raises the question: Did the Simon Peter, one of Jesus’ personal disciples, actually write this book? The most truthful answer: Not likely. When reading 2 Peter, we must keep in mind when it was written. It is well-known that many of the writings floating around the early church were not written by the people claimed to have written them, but were forged by believers to push their particular doctrines. This is most likely the case with the book of 2 Peter. *The first clue is that the writer acknowledged that “the fathers” have died. Since Peter was one of those founding fathers of the church, he couldn’t have written this book.* It has proven difficult for scholars to pinpoint exactly when the book was written, but they all place its origin sometime between 60 and 160 A.D. This means that it was written at least 30 years after Jesus’ crucifixion is believed to have taken place when he was 33. Assuming his disciples were somewhere around his own age and taking into account average life expectancy of that time and that, according to church tradition, the apostles were all killed, none of them would have likely been alive in 60 A.D. (the earliest date scholars say the book would have been written). *So, what can we make of the fact that this is in the Bible? It was written by a believer who didn’t want Jesus’ failure to come to cause the faith to die out.* Knowing that Peter was a founding apostle and a personal disciple of Jesus who was deemed to be the first Pope of the Christian faction that came to be known as the Roman Catholic Church, the writer forged this book in Peter’s name. It seems likely that this was an attempt to keep believers in the nascent Catholic churches in the fold. This is not the only case of forgery to uphold Catholic doctrine. (There are other forgeries in the New Testament that have been recognized by scholars as such.) *Whether written by the apostle Peter or something else, it is an obvious rationalization to try to deal with the failure of a prediction that came to be central to the Christian religion.* We do not accept similar rationalizations from modern-day doomsdayers and we shouldn’t accept them from ancient religious people either. *Rationalization #6: In Matthew 16 when Jesus said some of his listeners would see him “coming in his kingdom”, he was talking about his coming into his kingdom in Heaven after his resurrection when he went back to Heaven. Many saw this event through visions.* *This fails to take into account what Jesus said his “coming in his kingdom” would be connected to the day of judgment when he would “reward each according to his works”.* As far as I know, no Christian apologists say the judgment occurred when Jesus supposedly went back to Heaven in the first century. Everything in the New Testament places judgment day at the end of the world. Even if we were to throw the Matthew 16 passage completely out of the Bible, there would still be the problem of other passages where Jesus said *“this generation will not pass”* before he comes and New Testament writers testifying to their belief that he would come in their lifetime. *It is no wonder that this rationalization has largely been dropped by Christian theologians.* *Rationalization #7: Maybe in our human understanding we don’t know what Jesus meant when he said “this generation would not pass away” and that “some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. He couldn’t have meant he was coming in the first century because he hasn’t come back yet and that would make him a false prophet.* This rationalization is nothing more than interpreting the Bible by a doctrine you want to be true. If you’re going to believe in the Jesus of the Bible, shouldn’t you base your doctrines on what the Bible actually says? It is self-deceit to look at Jesus’ “prophecy” detailing his return in the lifetime of his disciples and rationalize why it didn’t happen. Only a mind interested in maintaining the illusion of faith could twist and mangle the plain words of the Bible the way Christians have in an attempt to make the incredible credible. An honest mind looking at the facts would have no choice but to admit that Jesus’ prophecy of the end of days has failed to come true. *"Jesus’ Failed Prophecy About His Return | Black Nonbelievers, Inc."* Also look up: *"ex-apologist: On One of the Main Reasons Why I Think Christianity is False (Reposted)"*
@@epicofatrahasis3775 Well said. A real god/man with the most important story ever to believe leaves without equipping future generations with complete and reliable source material. We have no first person account from Jesus. His followers likewise, are mostly lost to history too. We have Paul and James both of which offer nearly nothing about Jesus of Nazareth. (And Paul only claims a vivid vision). Then we have 3rd hand accounts purported to be from eyewitnesses…but which eyewitnesses …hm…and these accounts are from individuals mostly lost to history too. A real God could do much better at preserving such important history. We have baked clay cuneiform tablets and Egyptian hieroglyphics on stone but of Jesus just scraps of papyrus and little to nothing from the mid-first century at all. An almighty power wanting a personal relationship with his dear children is clearly capable of better preserving true events and quotations.
Me too. I love Jesus and I'm afraid of Hell. Just being honest. The Bible doesn't make 100% sense to me, it never did. There is enough there for a faith, but I completely understand why an atheist would be atheist. We all need to be as honest with ourselves as possible. If this life is all there is, and it may very well be, I should have just killed myself a long time ago.
It’s time to start taking about that book! “How he came to set the captives free” Me and my cousins read the book and we had the same EXACT experiences. Before I read it; I had very minimum real life spiritual encounters. But afterwards I started seeing things and physically being attacked in dreams… I have stories. I also read The Divine Revelation of Hell which pushed me further into complete fear of what would happen if I didn’t totally commit to Jesus/ Christianity!
Interesting. For me I experienced demonic attacks years before I got serious in my faith. That was 10 or 12 years ago. Now that I am trying to get serious in my faith I have experiences again. Even though my logic is the biggest deterrent I have to acknowledge through my experiences that it's a fact evil, or demonic entities do exist . That can't be if their is no God. I have also felt presence of God a couple of times in my life. But even after these truths, I still have trouble with the Bible and how God is portrayed. Now add anxiety and fear of hell for feeling this way and you have a mess.
Yeah, I can’t imagine finding an English speaking church in Norway is easy. My ex was Norwegian and he managed to reach 17 without having met a single believer, or ex-believer. Granted, this is not the experience of all Norwegians but it goes to show how little impact the religion has in the country. Can’t imagine this possibly happening in the States.
We actually found a church near the university where I worked that had an English translator in their services most of the time. But, as you can imagine, even that was difficult, and we very shortly just stopped going after a few Sundays.
@@DrKippDavis My ex’s village- tiny, tiny place along the Sogne fjord- did not even have a functioning church. It had closed as one and now served as a community centre of sorts. And it was only build in the 50’s, the reason being that there was a legend to the effect that the day church bells rang in the village, the mountains would shatter. They didn’t. The church building itself is very much space age as was often the case in those days. So you get this bright, reddish rocket-like building in the middle of a cluster of the usual wooden houses you’d see in any Norwegian village.
Interestingly enough, studying foster and adoption was the spark that lead to my questioning briefs about sin. Months of study later, I woke up one day and realized I'd been reasoned out of my previous beliefs in the Bible. I tried to find answers to defend my beliefs, because confirmation bias. I just never found any satisfactory answers that responded to what is clearly observable about human nature.
I'll add a little detail for those interested. I was reading The Connect Child. There was a case study (although the author made it clear this was a rare case) where a child was treated for malnutrition. What makes this case so rare is that was the only intervention, and the child stopped suffering from reactive attachment disorder. From my belief at the time, that would be like saying taking vitamins cured the child's spirit of part of its sinful nature. 🤣 There had to be more to the story! I went looking for answers only to discover while that case story was rare, there was a myriad of similar stories about the impact of biology on behavior. Transcranial Magnetic Simulation can be used to predictably change who someone will be charitable towards within 30 minutes of treatment, predicted by which part of the prefrontal cortex was impacted by the treatment. Again, the examples are endless, and there's no counter examples. Those who believe in free will would tell me that you have free will until something messes with it. You can't study it, because the moment you try, it no longer exists. 🤔 How is that NOT blind faith? But then the same people use free will to back up their other claims.
This is wonderful. I love the idea of having a 'testimony' to ones leaving the faith. I love his characterization of James White. His child's fear of heaven, hell and death is heartbreaking. From the mouth of babes, indeed. Thank you to both.
I needed a Savior because of my past sins. According to His word, He breathed into me His breath of life when I acknowledged and accepted His sacrificial atonement for my sins by shedding His BLOOD. He sent His Holy Spirit, who is His Seed in me- the new man, who leads, teaches, interprets the word I study and enables me to understand and live by it, by my faith! John 20:22; 14:26; 1 John 3. As long as I abide in Him, having been justified as soon as I received Him, He imputed the righteousness of God in Him to me, by His Holy Spirit, but I must remain in Him, in the fold in which He placed me,until the redemption of all His purchased possession. We're still in this world, and life happens, so when I'm getting tempted, the Holy Spirit in me reminds me of pertinent scriptures, which are alive. If I put them aside and ignore them, he restricts me in ways that will prove that I'm going the wrong way. If I listen and obey, I'm convicted, and go to Him for forgiveness 1 John 1:9, then quickly forgive myself (that is the most difficult thing to do), and bring Romans 8:1 to mind, so I can get back on the narrow road. There are two roads: the one leads to life here and then eternal life in Him, as member of His body, sitted withHimin God, in heavenly places. 1 Corinthians 15; 1 thesalonians 4; Romans 8. I get restored and will learn from experience that it was better to abide in His fold, even if life is boring and no one knows about me, His will for me will eventually come to pass as it is written, living by the law of the Spirit of life IN Christ Jesus! The other leads to destruction and death here, and eternal damnation and separation from God in the lake of fire and brimstone Job 14:22; Isaiah 66:24. If I rebel and simply go on with what I wanted to do, after so many remonstrations, He will step aside, because everything I do from then on will hurt and make Stain His Holiness. Then, the devil will get the opportunity to go tattle to God, and get permission to steal, kill and destroy. There will my troubles begin. Because I'm now operating in the flesh I will have to go look for physical solutions and no longer have to go ask God. Buy since I still want to act religious, I begin to look for false and fake pastors to pray for me, because I am too guilty to face the Lord. I look for things to feed my lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and pride of life. I may even land a very great job or opportunity to be wealthy and renown. This will bring me into the limelight as I hide what sacrifices I had to be making each step of the way, since I no longer depend on the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of my Savior, Jesus Christ. Pride is the next level that eventually pushes me off the cliff of life. Then, the devil and his spirits will come with fear, then oppressed, then afflictions, then addictions, then sickness and will lose everything I went astray for, then finally, death and destruction and corruption of the body. Fulfilling the law of sin and death! On judgment day, those who never accepted Jesus Christ as Messiah will have a better deal than the one who had professed His falsely. To whom much is given, much is required. To professe that you are a Christian, but don't know anything about the Lord that saved you and the blood that bought you, is showing that you're not His. He knows His sheep and they know Him. They will only follow His voice and not another, no matter what gains are promised, and they remain in the fold until He returns. The lost sheep story is only for Israel, because He will return to look for them and bring them back into fellowship with the Father, because He was a minister for the circumcision, until they rejected Him and God now concluded all the world under sin, and He became their Savior by His sacrificial work of salvation John 12:32; John 19:30. Things still happen daily to make the believer sin, but the new man in them overcomes them by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony. This is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith! That is why He never leaves us alone, but as long as we're 2 or 3, gathered together in His Name, He is there in the midst of us. I'm not talking about church gatherings! He leads His own, because they're like a baby in the hand of their parent! They trust Him unless one becomes a child, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven! We kill the flesh daily, we die daily and get quickened by the Holy Spirit in us, because our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, if any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy, for the temple of God is Holy, whose temple we are. God fights our battles, that is why we don't go looking for trouble, because we bare the mark of Christ and those who trouble us will be troubled and cut off Galatians 5:10,12. The book of Psalms, Proverbs, Romans, Galatians etc. helped me get through daily, as I see His Faithfulness, even in my adversities, and pains. His words comforted me, they still do, and will continue until He returns. (Especially Psalms 2,3,4,6,10,11,12,13,16,18,20,31-35, 44, 32, 51, during so much pressure, 56, 57, 115-119, 46, 144 140-142- all of them, with tears and hope of being heard 1 John 5. He is Faithful and True! He is the Lord, God Almighty! None can compare with Him. Be encouraged! I have so much to say, but let's stop here for now!
Good grief. wake up from that hypnotic nonsense and use your brain to investigate what the early Christians believed. Their beliefs were not what yours have morphed into at all.
I became an atheist at 12 when I reasoned a good god and hell were mutually exclusive! Then I was 17 when I saw the exorcist which freaked me out! I struggled for a couple years trying to figure it out. Just decided it made no sense anyway!
Yup, quite obviously we need to be saved from the wrath of the loving God who intentionally created 1/3 of his angels with rebellious tendencies, and a penchant for dragging humanity into sin while said God watches with folded arms. Save us master! Save us from this diabolical plan you set in place to ensure our demise without you swooping in to sacrifice yourself to yourself!!!
Well, no. For many years I had what I understood to be a vibrant, vivid and very meaningful relationship with Jesus. I read my Bible, prayed and worshiped prolifically, and I was convinced that I heard from god, and saw evidence of his care and involvement in my daily life all the time. The thing is, after a while, I came to realise that these deeply compelling and highly emotional experiences I had were constructs of my own brain-which is incredibly good at manufacturing reality. After a while, I just stopped believing, and, wouldn't you know it? All those "spiritual" experiences ended altogether.
my little sister got baptized when she was 1-2 ish. she shocked everyone by pulling the Bible into the font and ripping out some of the pages during the blessing.
I know this is 7 mos late, but I would like to thank Dr. Davis for his willingness to adopt children that may have issues which can prove challenging for most parents to cope with. I was a professional most of my career, but for about a decade I volunteered at an abused children's center near me and that I had helped set up. I came from a fundamentalist christian cult (jehovah witnesses) which in the 60's and 70's in our small town had strict rules which fed right into my father and stepmother's physical and mental abuse and torture as they used religion and the bible as a kind of support for their ideals. When the elders found out what was going on at home, when the State took my younger brother away into the foster system due coming to school with bruises covering his entire back and legs, these elders did nothing to my parents in order to keep it from the public. I grew up in a town of 2,500 people. 1975 was the religion's last specific date of Armageddon according to their views of scripture and with my parents always calling me the son of the devil, a demon, jehovah was going to kill me by Dec. 31, 1975. No high school (I was 13), car, first kiss, and I believed that jehovah was going to kill me slowly and painfully. But when Jan. 1st 1976 came, I believe religion was bunk and just a way to control people and I began to hate religion and the elders who turned a blind eye. Even so, I had to get baptized at 15 or get more harsh punishments and stove burnings, horsewhips and electrocutions even could break me, so I had to comply until I was an adult and able to leave the house. When I was 8 I told myself consciously to please trade my emotions for the strength to help my 2 brothers survive, but I failed, something that I think will always bother me to some degree. I tried to end it all twice before I was 20, but guess I subconsciously didn't really want to do it! But I didn't know how to be human, I just wore whatever mask I thought was needed, i.e. work, firm Xmas party, etc. and then I would go be alone. Of course, I don't know you and your wife personally, but watching your videos, Dr. Davis, I'm sure your son's anxiety will improve with time and love if it hasn't already. But so many people are not willing to get a kid whose had a rough time or has medical issues a chance, so that's why I thank you and your wife for doing it. My brother started in the foster system at 11 and was never adopted, so when he turned 18 the State gave him $20USD and a free bus ticket anywhere within the State and kicked him out on the street. They would not tell where he was when he was taken at 11 and it took me until he was 16 or 17, I believe it was, when I finally tracked him down. He had been through 7 foster homes in those 5 or 6 years. He told me 3 years ago that the judge said me and his older brother refused to testify on his behalf on the a use charges, but no one would talk to us and we were made to sit in our rooms. So, for 47 years my brother thought his brother's didn't give a damn about him and he kept it inside him all those years. I cannot tell you how many people told me not to have any kids, because I would abuse them as inhumanely as I was. But I married my 2nd wife when I was 38 and my son was born just 3 years later. I was so scared of what I might do when he cried at night and he was born at a busy work time for me, so what difficulties could that bring? You cannot imagine how deathly scared I was! But, I was determined to prove that a victim does not always do as the abuser does. And it work fine! If I felt myself getting frustrated, I would just tell my wife "it's your turn, sweetie." Unfortunately because my fear ran into my son's 4th and 5th year, we ended up not able to have children of our due to brain injury I had suffered and a bodywide nerve disease, both of which cannot be corrected. As my son got into kindergarten age, we told him that if he wanted to go to any church with his friends or alone, I would go with him. His mother is Russian Orthodox and I am an atheist, but I have always told my son that I will him what I know of a religious sect or take him to a service and we can get info from the priest dude! I never discourage him, except scientology or cult sects, cause I lived through one and he doesn't need that. I told about the fact that there is a diversity in people and we should celebrate that, not be disrespectful or intolerant. He is his 3rd year of college due to transfer into Uni as a music composition and performance major, his mother is a classical piano teacher who began teaching him at 3 y.o. (last he won Top Solo Pianist in our part of the State, which accounts for over half) His group of friends is your typical geeky, good grades, gaming, etc. and one of his good friends is gay and his best friend is Trans and she came out to my before anyone else because she knows my son won't judge her and will always support her. I left christianity with an extremely bitter taste in my mouth. I have PTSD nightmares starring me and my family members 3-4 times a year for decades (I'm 61 now, I had begin studying with a JW sister when I was 6), and though my father died of a massive coronary while giving the closing prayer at book study in 1992 (also shortly before disowning my older brother because he's gay). These have religious themes or connections about half the time. The last I had was last Oct. 2023 and I was walking down a small pebble path, entering a house, only to hear my stepmother's voice sounding demonic telling me I better run and find the hidden sword or she will kill me first. A smoky wisp of a cloud looking just like her floats pass me. I run and have to listen to her ramble on and on (I can't remember what those words were) and running I turn right into a kitchen and open up a cabinet door hoping to find something to kill a smoky cloudy! As the door opens a wooden flap folds down and outwards as a twin bladed broadsword each blade 8-9" wide and 1-2" between the blades, at high speed ram through the center of my chest as I am held on the blade a half foot off the floor as the I look down at the ever enlarging pool of blood! Next I am walking in the opposite direction on that same pebbled pathway and I see a large roosters head made of rattan and I stop and ask it, "have I now paid enough for the sins of the world?" The dream ends as I continue walking. I talked to a therapist friend of mine and he said wait and see if they go away now that both parents gone, you have no connection to the religion or any parishioner (I was disfellowshipped in 1981 and shunned since). That's my story, sorry it went too long, but I also wanted to thank Dr. & Mrs. Davis for their choice to adopt, since children who need someone has a special place in my heart. And excellent video Mathison and Dr. Davis for such an interesting subject and information. Now I will shut up.! LOL 🤠🏜🦎🐍🌵🎹🌅
That is so true and that is why people don’t have respect for Christians. It’s actually not a Christian that’s doing the foolish thing it’s someone that never got in or someone on their way out.
1:20 " . . . where you come from, what you believed, where you were at, your journey into what you learned, what you have become, and how that has impacted you with your faith, and where you are today." In other words, the oft repeated, "What it was like, What happened, and What it's like now."
I was Catholic. Catholic high school church history class started me on my road to atheism, particularly learning about apocrypha. Thanks Marist brothers. Lol
@6:10 Sounds like scare tactics grift, if Rebecca Brown really believed any of the things she is/was saying why isn't she hunting down these Christian-believing Wealthy demons down like Buffy the Vampire Slayer? With camara videos and court verdicts vindicating her evidenced "pre-emptive counter-attacks" and all.
@@beemixsy it's CRAZY. Before she wrote the book, she also did an interview with the one-and-only Jack T. Chick. If you dug around on the internet, you should be able to find it. It is called "Cliset Witches."
I hope you enjoyed Dr. Kipp Davis' story. What did you like the most about it?
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The word God occurs 4444 times in the KJV Bible. God is the 4th word of the KJV Bible, the 444th word and the 4444th word. The word God occurs 3090 times in the Old Testament. There are 39 Old Testament Books and 27 New Testament Books
The word bondage occurs 39 total times and the word liberty occurs 27 times.
39×27= 1053. All forms of the word preach occurs 153 times. Peter and Paul each occur in 153 verses, and the 153 time Peter appears is in Galatians 2:7.
The word temple occurs 117 times in the New Testament.
The word believe occurs 143 times in the KJV Bible.
The word Father capitalized occurs 260 times in the KJV Bible.
117+143=260
The 143 time temple is mentioned in the KJV Bible is John 2:21, verse number 26117.
Christ occurs 555 times in the KJV Bible. The word Heaven occurs 582 times. The word liberty occurs 27 times.
582-555=27
The number pi (π) also connects.
Within the first 200 million digits of pi:
11111111 occurs 3 times.
22222222 occurs 1 time.
33333333 occurs 1 time.
44444444 occurs 2 times.
55555555 occurs 1 time
66666666 occurs 5 times
77777777 occurs 3 times.
There are 31102 verses in the KJV Bible. All forms of the word preach occurs 153 times.
The word Christ occurs 555 (as does all forms of the word righteous) times in the KJV Bible. All forms of the word faith occurs 360 times.
200 million/ 555 = 360360.36036
Twice the KJV Bible says "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."
Psalms 14:1 and Psalms 53:1
√2 is 1.4142
Psalms 14:1 is the 142 verse of Psalms in the KJV.
The first verse of the KJV Bible has ten words. The square root of ten is 3.16
John 3:16
@@thevulture5750 king James was a freemason.
U all need a secret before u can experience Jesus healing energy. The Illuminati aka fallen angels aliens NASA what ever you want to call them in there flying tin cans. Can't get out of lower orbit because of the vacuum. Universe is only 25 thousand SQ miles big breathable air through out space angels have to breath. Mars is only 250 miles away sun an moon are much closer an only a acre big. Heaven is on Mars moon that's what all the thrusters are for space x Star ship try to punch through the vacuum and destroy Mars moon heaven. I cleaned out hell left the light's on. I ripped the soul out the devil after he went dragon just to make it a fair fight. Now u can experience Jesus healing energy all old aches and pains will be washed away takes 30 minutes best to relax and shut yr eyes.
The Tora also is a copy of the book of Enoch. Plagiarized at best. Does that really mean the black people are the real Jews. I am confused. No pun intended.
@@nrj3621 How so? Book of Enoch?
I was deeply depressed when I left Christianity it was like a divorce everything I trusted in was a lie took me 2 years to sort out my feelings
It is literally a divorce according to the Bible ✝
For some people, leaving the church is actually experiencing a death. It’s grieving. you’ve lost a way of being in the world to which you were deeply committed and in which you deeply believed. Of course it takes time to sort out. ❤
It was the opposite for me.
@@fatronjones Sometimes individual progress involves a period of being sad before getting better. In general.
Hey Tom I can relate. I left AA a 12 step program about 15 years ago and I was very depressed. I had a certain way of thinking, but once I realized there was no objective evidence for any supernatural being I could no longer participate in a twelve step program
I became a fundamentalist Christian in high school. Married - kids - earned BS in Religious Ed and later a Masters at a Christian Univ. Became a missionary and moved my family to three different countries over 18 years. As I lived and traveled the globe, I found that the horrble broken people I set out to redeem were not as bad as I'd been told. In fact, the overwhelming majority (like 99.9%) were quite decent. In fact, the more I experienced people in so many different cultures, the less the bible's description of people or reality in general made sense. Much like Dr Kipp and his wife, I eventually realized that this was an illusion.
I see a common pattern in many deconstruction stories including Dr. Davis' and mine. A Christian zealot goes all in - even becomes a fulltime professional Christian; only to find that the deeper they go and the better they understand it, the less plausible it becomes.
Thanks to you both for this interview. It makes me happy that others are able to gradually learn/think their way out of potent ideologies.
Dude,write a book-you've got the knowledge and moreover the experience.
This was brave of you to say. I applaud thisl. ❤
Please don’t distort things (not that I think you are intentional doing so). I was an atheist and I converted. I received my degree in philosophy and I am currently busy with my theology degree. So why was I convinced while you and others weren’t?
I think that the lens that the majority of Protestants (I am a Protestant) view the world through is very much a product of the overly analytical enlightenment period. Essentially I boils down to the genetic fallacy, mixed with not seeing the the biblical scriptures are meant to drive you towards a spiritual experience and not just a collection of historically verifiable facts. What do I mean? God uses the weak things to confound the strong, so why would you expect the Bible to have no human flaws? If God is not real, there’s a massive existential contradiction lurking in the background of your mind: 1. All of the good people you met will end in an eternity of nothingness; everything will end at the grave. So, 2. How doesn’t the absurdity of that drive you back to belief in God? Why should verifiability and historical accuracy have preference over what is written on your heart? If God does not exist, this entire quest is futile and objectivity itself is dismantled and destroyed.
@brianbachinger6357 and there's the fundamental misunderstanding. It does not bother most atheists that life ends in death and there's nothing after it. The fact that our lives just end makes life MORE valuable to me, that's all the more reason to live in the present and enjoy my life now rather than trying to appease and repent to an angry God for the hope of an afterlife that nobody can ever prove exists. Everything ending in a grave isn't absurd at all, it's the most natural thing about our existence. We die and that's what makes life valuable.
@@brianbachinger6357 I appreciate your concern, but see your argument as Presuppositional dogma. (truth written on our hearts, God uses the weak to confound the wise, etc.) I once held and preached that very view; but life experience exposed its fallacies. In the subsequent decades, viewing my formerly deeply-held beliefs through genuine critical thinking ( outsider's test), it is more obvious each day that this is an unsubstantiated narrative.
Many fundamentalists think people leave the faith because they want to have a hedonistic lifestyle. In fact, for most people, leaving the faith is a years-long struggle trying all they can to stay in the faith.
For me that struggle lasted about 15 years. It was like trench warfare, in which I got beaten back from trench to trench, with my latest beliefs and sentiments being destroyed along the way. Finally I realized that this was not a battle I could win, and no longer even wanted to win.
Yet somehow YOU emerged victorious!
The stereotype you mention helps theists dismiss others moving away from religion.
So true! Trying to hang on but the threads keep breaking away
Yours was an intellectual faith. "The flesh profiteth nothing" someone said. You recall the thief on the cross? Jesus didn't tell him the 5 Aquinas rational proofs for the existence of God right?
What is so hard about having a relationship with God?
I really liked Dr. Kipp before this video, but now... I can't help but love the man. Thanks Mythvision for this, it brightened my day.
Well, they at least named the channel correctly. Myth vision. Eternity is not something you want to play with. "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me."
@@827dusty Hilarious that you think your Jesus myth would be in any way convincing to people who know it's a myth.
Kipp, thanks so much for sharing your story. I left Christianity in about 1968 or 69 but like you, I remain an ardent student of the Bible, and, in my case, a professional historian. Many many thanks
@Noah 🤣😂🤣 you're tellin' ME !!
Just curious what form of Christianity did you leave ? I came from a very strict fundamentalist holiness charasmatic movement
@@ct8888 American Baptist. Preachers kid. Never missed a Sunday in 18 years. Licensed minister by the age of 18 and an unbeliever by 20, although the seeds of doubt had been germinating for quite some time. Thomas Paine and Bertrand Russell were perhaps the two individuals most responsible for that, but learning in general has a tendency to move one away from superstition.
By the way, American Baptist were NOT fundamentalist at that time, although the denomination swung considerably more conservative starting about 30 years or so ago.
As a Paineite, I assume you're a fan of Thomas Paine, right? That would likely mean you've studied Paine's writings on the pagan parallels of Christianity.
I survived the Fundamentalist, Baptist, Disciples Of Christ cult
What a brilliant interview, Derek just lets Dr Kipp flow. Minimum interruptions and of course Dr. Kipp had such a tale to tell - I was rivetted!
I clicked on this but I didn’t really have any intention of sitting through a forty-five minute video. However, once Dr. Kipp started talking, I couldn’t stop listening. I was completely captivated by his story. Thank you Derek, for sharing your conversation with him so that he could share with us. I’m glad that I stayed.
I am totally at the “I have to pretend” stage of my deconstruction. Thanks Kip for the great interview!
I can absolutely relate to this as well. I especially love being asked to lead the meal prayer at family gatherings.
@@snoz2898 oh yes that is fun. Lol
Know you guys aren't alone
This stage sucks. I know what I believe (or more accurately no longer believe) but can’t be open about it because the potential repercussions.
@@craigmiller4199 what makes mine exceptionally tough is my spouse is Jewish. Almost impossible to talk about.
Incredible, I was raised Southern Baptist and also got to see the Wonderful World of Disney as it came on the TV and had to turn it off to go to church just a few minutes into it. I never heard anybody else complain.😂
I find everyone's journey out of faith an interesting subject. Thank you for this presentation.
Me too even tho I never had one myself. I was just born a skeptic I suppose. Never could believe the magic stuff. Learned about too many gods as a very young child so this was just one more story. It fascinates me how people can believe at all. Like how is it sorted in their brains…magic flying elephants=Not real. Magic Disappearing bodies reappearing=Jesus is real.
I just can’t understand ignoring logic. How? Magic Santa=real until age 8.
Magic Jesus=real not like Santa.
How?
Make it make sense! idk…
It’s still frustrating to me. But I love to listen to the early bible scholars, especially New testament stuff.. comparisons to the Hellenistic movements are very relevant. Literary Criticism is definitely a big thing in helping people deconstruct. I was lucky that my mom (even tho a believer) was quite up on biblical criticism when I was young. She didn’t take it all seriously but she wanted a god to be in charge and Jesus was son of god to her not the same as god.
I can’t express enough the trauma that I had from being in the seventh day Adventist church , it took me 3-4 years to not be afraid to go to the shop on a Saturday (sabbath) I remember being terrified to burn incense 😂 religious trauma is so so real
@@fidesnonsequitur-bf5cf well done I’m eating bacon I still haven’t done that !! Now I swim on Saturdays and buy food in stores and go out to restaurants. Took me while to get here but I’m so free and happy now
I was in an off shoot of the World Wide church of god. I know all about that feeling of “breaking the sabbath”. Took me awhile too. Freedom from religion is beautiful.
@@sharonrotenizer5646 what even is breaking the sabbath it’s so insane !! I was also afraid to clean my house or have fun with my child !! Now I swim in the ocean and have fun on Saturdays and it’s great
i play piano and did a gig for them on easter. Granted i know NOTHING about them besides the no meat thing, and dont know them besides this one interaction. And I have to admit they were the nicest Christians I have ever met. They payed me an extra $100 than they initially offered for no reason, invited me to the musicians table for food after service, were all smiles and warm, talked to me as a complete stranger, and werent pushy trying me to join or asking me about my faith. Was also a very diverse group of people all getting along. So like i said idk anything about them at all, but the one time i met with 7th day advents they were amazing people, every single one.
YOU WERE IN A CULT MY FRIEND- THE CULT OF ANY LAW KEEPERS.
As the parent of two special needs kids, I relate very strongly to what Dr. Kipp Davis says about how this prompted him to reconsider the faith. Adding in the textual issues, and without any corroborating supernatural evidences, and you've got a ready-made recipe for collapsing an entire belief system.
I went to the same church as Kipp growing up, but I was several years older. I remember feisty little Kipp always having a testimony to share every time there was opportunity to give a testimony. I never knew what happened to him (I moved out of our city long before he would have graduated from high school.) Sorry to hear he's left the faith. Mine has deconstructed and reconstructed, but my heart and mind will not let me leave it all behind.
I appreciated how he left the church. Literally, it was no longer speaking his language. And he and his family found out it was kind of nice to not have to show up for that every week. The only thing i miss is coffee hour, where everybody is downstairs in the church basement, talking and laughing, kids are tearing around, older people, younger people, middle aged people all together. I was UCC. I often joke that I want to start the UCCH-the United Church of Coffee Hour. No boring, pointless “worship” involved, just show up for coffee hour!
THIS. So much this. Thank you.
Yeah it's called take your friends out to a cafe every week. Way more fun and beneifical to body, mind and soul than any church lol.
@@ancientflames Almost like that, except the churches I have gone to have had people of all ages and from so many neighborhoods and walks of life. I miss that part, but, yeah-friends out for brunch or coffee is a close second.
@@kjmav10135no reason you can't have that without church. Im my progressive town half the churches are like that 😂 open Buddhists, atheists, chistians
@@marcomoreno6748I think the problem is that with church it is many people, not just those you think to invite, coming together on a regular basis. To have a large group of people get together for no reason except community is more difficult. Maybe you can have it as an actual community center thing, if you have a community center. But you probably need to have a purpose like neighborhood renewal and schedule activities.
It takes church and Hell to get people out of their house on Sunday to congregate on an regular basis.
I thought I was the only kid who was dragged to church 3 times every week. My parents also worked for the church (for free), mom doing daycare, dad was an usher/deacon and also counted the money. I spent an average of about 7 hours each week in church 😢
Church of Christ???
Hello my God Moloch.....your back
Going to church didn’t mean you were ever Christian
And now you are the child sacrificing fallen and immensely evil deity, glad it all worked out in a much safer way for society.
That's child abuse
I’ve been saying for years that apologetics isn’t really for non-Christians but rather a tool to affirm faith in the believer. Nice to hear someone else make this observation.
Ex believers watch this channel for affirmation
By understand the Bible I think you mean by default, MY understanding of the Bible?
Derek, you're great! Thank you for having all these awesome people on your show.
Love that last line, "Sooner or later, they will have to deal with someone like me."
Ironically, sooner or later we ALL will have to deal with GOD!!! I don't know if you are a Skull & Bones member or if you just like that profile pic, just remember God is the true "sooner or later."
@@747_Ryan You are in a cult, there is no irony, the message is meant for you and your kind. Skull and Crossbones is from a different cult (Mithraic Pirates et. al), which I ape to scare simple minded persons...
@@747_Ryanthere might be a god. The Christian god is fake right now and always has been and understanding how Jesus fails to fulfill the prophecies of messiah even if the gospels were perfect recordings is a very simple way to do that. In addition you should study the similarities between Judaism and the Canaanite religions that in my opinion it evolved out of.
I can lead you to the water, but I cannot make you drink.
Also if Gods ultimate argument is that he will light me on fire for eternity if I don’t do what he says, he’s not good, he’s just a control freak.
If he was good he would redeem every sinner, work to change their minds, show them how their sin was truly evil. But he doesnt, because he doesn’t exist.
@@747_Ryan That's funny.
Why is that especially significant?
Believers deal with unbelievers all the time.
And there it is. My admiration for Dr. Kipp and his work just grew substantially.
This is an amazing story of when intelligent people come face to face with the discrepancies between the faulty theological claims of christianity and reality itself. It doesn't add up! Then you see how hollow it is, and the whole thing collapses like the mirage it actually is. And people are better for it! Great video, thanks.
What are the faulty theological claims you are referring to specifically? Just curious.
Power is knowledge but the power of knowledge is wisdom not this education stuff by the by the system everyone follows
We need to collapse judaism and islam also
@@waynemiller4598 we need the destruction of vacuous thoughts
@@criticaloptimist7961 Too many to list. Many things in the bible are supposed to be symbolical, yet fundamentalist Christians take everything literal.
Jesus was not born on 25th December. There was no real Ark with Noah and all his family and animals .It was symbolic about he flood and sinking of Atlantis. Some people intuitionally moved away earlier but no longer had all the knowledge and had to start over again like in the stone age.
Reincarnation also was in the original gospels but when the bible was put together they no longer wanted it to be included since they wanted more power over the people.
Amazing story Dr Davis. Thank you for your scholarship and for adopting. As a father and grandfather I truly admire people like you Derek and your wives who put our children first. Keep on keeping on and thank you for all you do
I can relate totally, parents split at 15 but drugs etc took over, now live out west in Alberta! Been listening to you guys for about two years now! Great info in learning about Biblical stuff!
As a parent of an adopted child with attachment issues, I honor Dr. Kipp’s trial by fire! As a physician I have seen innocent suffering and cruelty beyond belief. I am not yet a complete atheist, rather an bewildered humanist agnostic because it is all far beyond justification of ANY sort!
Thank you Dr. Kipp for your honesty, commitment and humanity!
Great interview, Derrick! Thanks!❤
Dear Doctor @Elena. I can appreciate your place as an agnostic. I was born into a Christian family. But exposure to racism early in my undergraduate years made angry with God for allowing certain things to exist. This passionate anti-theism continued into my medical school years where it forced me to take a leave of absence. I later calmed down and returned to finish medical school, but remained agnostic for a total of 13 years, all through which I stayed away from church.
Then I returned to church. Why?
Coming from an underdeveloped country, I could keep myself busy enough to forget about God matters. But a time came when my efforts to help my country became totally fruitless. It was exasperating. An evangelist suggested that I was confused, and that it was because I didn't "know God". His brief words struck me as true, and suddenly, deep in my heart, I wished I knew God.
So, I developed this hunger to really know God. It led me to Pentecostal Christianity where I believed or hoped I would find him.
My first miraculous experience came as a shock. In the middle of a fast of a few days, I needed to do physical work. The next day, I had disturbing aches. But I didn't want to take medication, thinking, rightly or wrongly, that is would spoil my fast. So, I prayed instead for "God" to remove the pain. Nothing happened. A thought came to me, Why not pray in Jesus name? So, where I was kneeling, I said, "Father, heal me in Jesus name!" And within a second, a sensation of heat came all over me, and the aches disappeared! It was so surprising I literally jumped to my feet and looked myself over. I said to myself, "Wow! So things like this could happen, and I'd had no experience of it all my life!" "So, there's a realm of the world I'd been ignorant of for 34 years!" I was a practicing medical doctor, and what I had just witnessed made no scientific sense. With such experience alone, it became impossible to even contemplate agnosticism again. I may not be able to convince others, just like stories of miracles I had heard growing up meant absolutely nothing to me. But I suddenly belonged to a new reality.
Thus began my serious journey into the Bible and relevant extra biblical materials. I even learnt Hebrew and some Greek to avoid the biases of translators.
A decade and half ago, I ran into Richard Dawkins' book, The God Delusion. Ordinarily, this book would have made a lot of sense to me. But now I could see he was very wrong, though he could convince many. I decided to write a rejoinder to his book.
I couldn't plead my very private experiences. More objective material would be needed to counter his thesis. My excursion into the scriptures and associated historical materials had shown me such objective evidence of the reality, not just of God, but of Yahweh of the Hebrew bible, existed. So, I put pen to paper, or rather, fingers to the keyboard, and typed out a rejoinder. It is titled, "The Yahweh Reality", and published online, 2011, at www.theyahwehreality.wordpress.com .
I invite you to look at it. It looks at instances of undeniable fulfillment of prophecy, while pointing out the equivalence of such evidence with prediction from experiments, or hypothesis testing, as a basis for acquisition of knowledge in the sciences.
Look at it, and it will help you lay your agnosticism to rest.
Dr Kipp Davis and Derrick, and many of the anti missionaries he interviews would also benefit from my rejoinder to Dawkins.
Regards
@@yahkamba7788 Dear y m
You seem to be a kind person so thank you for that kindness.
What kind of miracle producing deity allows the world’s immense sufferings eg.babies to be burned by cigarettes or have their brains bashed out by their own parents? Where was the miracle? What deity could EVER allow it, or justify allowing it?! I would NEVER worship such a deity!
I do not pretend to understand the great consciousness that we swim in and are apparently part of…it is a terrible mystery of mysteries and rather than shake my fist at the unfairness of it all or plead to a heartless deity hoping for some random miracle I choose to work for humanity to try to do my part to improve the world. Thus I consider my self a humanist agnostic. I can never understand or condone this whatever-it-is that is going on. I feel I would be EVIL if I did. I know a lot of near-death experiencers find love on the “other side” and that they say we are immortal….This world is just too cruel to justify for ANY reason. I choose like Bart Ehrman to spend my two cents of life toward serving humanity to at least help who I can ; to love who I can.
@@elenahofmann-smith5723 Yes, humanism certainly has its place. That was my path too, trying my best to help my poor country, Nigeria. I had returned from a US medical school in 1983 to meet an economy called a raw material enclave already in austerity and struggling to pay salaries and import scarce goods. The solution in the developed world would have been simply to "stimulate the economy". More production would take place, and all would be well again. But this option was not available for raw material enclaves because of the absence of a production base, otherwise called a technological base. In the absence of this base the country could not create jobs and wealth. The growing population then had to depend on imports paid for by non expanding raw material exports. So, increasing per capita poverty is inevitable. In an already politically unstable country, increasing poverty meant a risk of future instability, violence and bloodshed, with different subgroups fighting to sustain or increase their share of the limited national income. I could see this prospect, and it troubled me enough for me to play down my medical career, to give myself time to advocate the only possible solution - the country setting up a technological base as an emergency. I began writing newspaper columns on the subject, attending trade and development seminars, and visiting government economic planning ministries. After two years of such efforts, I could make no headway. And things were getting worse for the country by the day. Just didn't seem to have the wisdom or maturity to reach the development economists managing the economy. Those that could best understand me were the physical scientists and engineers, those responsible for creating goods from raw materials in developed countries, but they had no say. Those in charge, the economists, could not understand me. Watching the country continue its slide into a gruesome future was unbearable. This was why my spirit silently cried for help. It seems to say, if God could help, why not. Such was my humanistic path to its end. I would say I have since then entered what one might now call "spiritual humanism". It entails applying those principles, sociological, technological and spiritual, that one can discern outside and inside the religious scriptures towards the healing of sick societies. It is a new work in progress.
So, I appreciate your humanistic agnosticism. Every idealist humanist without access to the spiritual realm can be found there. Every? Let's just say, Many.
The spiritual realm is a realm of knowledge, and has value like the other more generally accessible forms of knowledge, like that in the hard sciences, social sciences and humanities. Spiritual knowledge can also serve good or evil. Knowledge of it for good allows me to speak of "spiritual humanism". And it has made my efforts to help my country more knowledge and evidence based, and more hopeful.
If I had not somehow overcome my anger with God for all the disorder in the world, I would probably have gone from my exasperation over my inability to help my country move away from its journey to bloodshed and self-destruction, to depression and .... As Solomon said, With much knowledge is much sorrow. Today, I am able to persevere in my efforts because they have a better yield.
So, I appreciate your sense of disappointment with whatever God may exist. I have been there too. Richard Dawkins, in his book, The God Delusion, had a whole chapter devoted to a Yahweh he saw as a "cruel ogre". Having drawn closer to Yahweh, since I first sought him back in 1986, I can at least now say a few things on his behalf. My rejoinder to Dawkins, The Yahweh Reality, mentioned in my last reply, has a section near the end, titled, "Dawkins versus Yahweh". It is listed among the "Contents", and clicking its hyperlink takes you directly to the section. You may want to look at it. One little plea on my part. Going over the passage recently, I saw one rather inappropriate word I had used, the word "silly", stand out. The proper word should have been simply "wrong". "Silly" conveys a disrespectful nuance I regret. Please make the change as you read.
Again, you can find the rejoinder at www.theyahwehreality.wordpress.com .
Regards.
@@yahkamba7788
Spread the word about Mubarak Bala. A persecuted humanist in Nigeria.
Such a travesty!
Free Mubarak Bala!
Incidentally, unfounded beliefs and magical thinking leads to apostasy and blasphemy laws that target non believers.
I will testify this to you. I was exactly like these two guys I am the worst of sinners. 1990 God raised me from the dead totally healed me from osteosarcoma cancer. I experience the judgement throne , falling on my knees unwillingly screaming out " Jesus Christ is Lord ,God " came back told my family I don't believe in what they believe in anyone I was a believer in Christ. Eventually hated God and turn a full time atheist for three years. Today I am a follower of Jesus Christ. We have many believers in Christ but few followers they are different. Jesus Christ is God and His words are true this I can say.
I've never had a religion, so hearing people's stories fascinates me. A great video.
Same. No religion here. Kinda blows me away watching them realise....
@@tonirickett2422 my mother gave me a book of illustrated Greek myths when I was about 7 and it seemed as valid (and more exciting) a religion as any 😊
I third this, I never once bought into it, so seeing people wake up to the illusion is very intriguing.
I love Dr. Kipp, his playlist on Israelite Religion (now even better and saved on my phone thanks to MVP courses) was the base of my deconversion. I watched that playlist over and over and over…. I’ve always believed I knew the Old Testament, I’m still crazy about it and absolutely fascinated by it …. Then I found dr. Kipp 😅
So thank you so much for all you do and sharing your intense deconversion with us. It did bring me a lot of pain during the mourning phase of having lost my Father Jehovah. But was so liberating once it was over😊
You might want to find Rabbi Tovia Singer here on youtube videos@Lady Wasser
He has 3 playlists that I see and none are that title. Which one are you referring to?
Edit: 4 playlists
Really appreciate Dr. Kipp. Thanks Derek, for asking him to tell his story.
I am a Christian embarking on a Ph.D in Theology. I have been inspired to go deeper by this interview. I think he accurately depicted issues with apologetics. Even in my studies, I’ll be reading Dr. Davis and his views. Not to debunk them, but because I have appreciated his story, honesty, and openness. Maybe someday we will meet and sit down for a great discussion. This is one of the best interviews I have seen on this topic. The host truly allowed Dr. Davis to fully share his story. Thank you for this. Much respect!
Brad,
What do you hope to gain by essentially immersing in systematics of a particular theology?
Where did Jesus get his PhD from?
@@greglogan7706 I do find it interesting. But my desire to study is based on my love for Christ and the Bible. Not in a simple grasp for knowledge.
However, I don’t think your statement about Jesus not having a PhD reflects a proper equivalency. Jesus, if you believe He is divine, would not need a PhD in the study of Jesus. It would be like asking why doesn’t Shakespeare have a degree in Shakespearen literature. :-)
Paul might be a better fit. He wrote most of the New Testament. He was a Pharisee trained in Jewish doctrine. God used that to put forth systematic understandings of theology like in Romans. Paul’s education played into how God used him. Peter was different and God used him too. So I feel if a believer is feeling led into theological study, he should follow that pursuit. If not, he should not. :-)
These scriptures speak to me personally, especially with all the doctrinal error I’ve seen in the churches where I grew up.
Thanks!
“(Study to show yourself approved… - KJV) Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.”
2 Timothy 2:15 ESV
bible.com/bible/59/2ti.2.15.ESV
“…always being prepared to make a defense (give an answer) to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,”
1 Peter 3:15 ESV
bible.com/bible/59/1pe.3.15.ESV
@@bradirons
I appreciate your thoughtful response
Perhaps a larger question is how will this study help you actually walk with God in Christ?
@@greglogan7706 I love this question. Thank you. I was raised in church but became an atheist early in life, but later I became a believer. Kind of like Dr. Davis said, I love the Bible. But different from Dr. Davis, the more I study, the stronger my walk becomes. I’m not sure why one person goes one way and one person goes another. But, possibly because of my experiences, study brings me closer. Also, as I write songs, share my story, and talk to others, having this knowledge has helped me see more clearly, and helped others over obstacles to faith that were based on misinformation and misunderstanding. I don’t have all the answers, but what I have learned, I share. :-)
Thank you again for these questions! I appreciate your willingness to hear the responses. Blessings!
@@bradirons
I don't mean to be a pest so no need to follow up if you do not wish
Admittedly I am wondering what the Bible has to do with Christianity?
I get why so many who raised on the Bible as essentially being God (which really is simply reflective of Evangelical bibliology as practiced) that when the Bible is dispelled simply fly the coop - not just of the Bible but of God himself
In contrast the Bible was never particularly relevant to my faith though at a certain point I did buy the evangelical bibliology - but have for sometime outgrown it... and essentially totally identify with the issues raised by critical scholarship.
However I would add - as I think doctor Kipp would also add - this doesn't mean the Bible so much is a problem but the Evangelical use of the Bible is a very severe problem.
The relief that I felt when it was revealed in my marriage that I was no longer a believer and my husband wasn’t either.❤❤❤❤ That transparency is so wonderful. Really feel free to be myself with him. He can be free with me.
Thanks Dr Kipp! I think this group of scholars is doing important work helping people through what can be a very painful process.
I never loved the Bible until I became an atheist. Once you start really reading it in context, it literally becomes the greatest story ever told. Coming out to my mom was tough, but what's worse is that I dare not have these discussions with her because she needs her faith to be okay. I think that's why so many people cling to their faith in the face of so much cognitive dissonance. They need life to have some meaning, and they are too scared to make their own meaning. It's interesting that you lost your faith partially due to the serious commitments you made to your family. I love that so much, as my big childhood trauma stems from my parents choosing their god over their children every time. Keep doing the good work!
He would enjoy the work of Bart Ehrman and Paul Wallis.
A lot of people need the faith they have to be okay mentally.
Depending on the family environment and teachings, this can be worse and develop into a pseudo addiction, where they want church more and more because it gives them a break from whatever they're going through.
@@nappa3550 yes. I also think it tends to be people who can’t make their own meaning in life. The ones who do everything by the book. The ones who play by all the rules. The Uncreative type. These are people who enjoy being told what to do because they don’t want to think for themselves. Almost as if they don’t trust themselves. I would say I admitted to myself that I didn’t believe in a deity about the same time I decided that I was a trustworthy person even though I was raised to believe differently. I think it’s related. I make my own meaning, and I’m very happy and fulfilled.
@@heidismutti I'd sum it up more as being simple minded.
On the contrary, I believe in God still, just through a very "liberal" lense. The further right you go (in terms of Christianity) the more simple minded and mentally unwell people are. I grew up in that, but I'd almost be willing to say I've been led almost entirely out of it.
@@nappa3550 I would agree with simple minded, but not stupid or mentally unwell. My mom, for example, is evangelical, always has been. She is neither stupid nor insane, but what she IS is rigid in her thinking about the only correct way to live her life.
Dr Kipp is great...I think it's just brilliant these subjects are being discussed finally. ✊
Yes I agree brilliant
This episode was a banger! Great to hear about Dr Kipp's journey and I look forward to future contributions
You guys are the best. Thank you so much for helping me accept and come to peace with leaving religion but still respecting it. I consider you friends and seek out all your new content. ❤❤❤
Very interesting, even dramatic. Thank you. Like you I asked Jesus into my heart at five. Or so my mother told me, I was baptized at 10 in a muddy river on the mission field by my father. But unlike you, I never really believed to the point of dedicating myself to all the intense training I had through Christian schools and college. It didn’t move me. By grad school, some of the problems were already clear and I quit. Today I learn a great deal from you p Derick and the people you cite plus many more. Thanks again.
I can testify that Jesus Christ is Lord he raised me from the dead in 1990 totally healed me from a giant malignant tumor osteosarcoma cancer. One year later I hated God and was an Atheist three years later The Lord refill me with His spirit and I am now a follower of Christ and not just a believer. Jesus Christ is God it's simple like that we all will be judge by Him no other He is the light and love. That's as simple as it is.
@@angelgoindoo4518
What is the difference between believing in Christ and following Christ?
Very moved by your story Dr. Davis. I appreciate your honesty and the story of your struggle. It makes me feel more comfortable with my own story.
That was intense! I was raised in a mainstream Protestant church, so did not have Fundigelical Brain Damage. One read-through of the Bible at age 13 cured me. I just had to fly under the radar until I was out on my own. The funniest part was my last year in Boy Scouts, when I was appointed troop chaplain. I had a booming bass radio voice, so if they needed to offend Jesus with a public prayer, I was their boy.
So my story had the same archetypes as Dr. Kipp's, but with the volume turned down from 11 to 1.
It was a real pleasure editing this for you
Thank you, David.
reminder for people who love mythvision videos but the length is daunting , along with personal time constraints.
Most of Derek's guests are so well spoken that theyre easily understood at 1.5× speed.
It may take a minute to get use to but quickly it sounds normal wirh time saved. 👍
I am sorry for that. I feel like my plodding pace as I search for words makes the problem much worse.
@@DrKippDavis
Ha, no its definitely not your problem Mr Davis. Nor is it a problem at all. You have good cadence in your speaking . And I enjoyed hearing your story . 👍
Because theres only so much time in a day I speed up nearly 95 % of the long form videos I watch. Its the people who lack good cadence that need to be listened to at regular speed.
Keep up the good work.
@@DrKippDavis Your pace is natural and fine! I am never daunted by the length of time on things I want to watch. Because I can watch and work at the same time. I need long things to listen to! Always enjoy your explanations!
I actually looked into dr kipp on google and wiki, and i couldnt find it. He is a gem to humanity
Because he is Dr. Kipp Davis. Look under that.
@@beastshawnee lol you serious? You think I wouldn't try that. I did and still. No biggie was just wondering how he started. Now I know
As a former fundamentalist Christian I now know that most of us are just decent humans who make mistakes rather than sinners who deserve condemnation. Hopefully we learn as we go and correct the imperfections along the way.
Most of us sinner's who made a mistake not condemnation.Thats the whole point of a saviour to save a wayward soul not torment and destroy.Christianity as promoted in gospel could be our next last best hope.
@@donb9773 Whoever Jesus was you can't trust what that Book 📖 says because it's filled with lies, contradictions and false promises
@@donb9773 if you buy the claim that each and every wrongdoing (sin) merits an eternity of conscience torment facilitated by the God who designed the system, then yes.
We all "need" to be saved from the loving God foaming at the mouth with wrath to destroy us.
@@skippy675 Going with the Anunnaki story of humans being created as beast of burden only story of humans that make sense.Our destiny merely serve and suffer so our creator doesn't have to. The cruelty inflicted was unjust then one of them stood up for us to ease our suffering .We were singled out for destruction by the tyrant but the effort of the advocate has given second chance so we should give each other a second chance
@@donb9773 will have to look it up. The only version of Christianity i am familiar with describes the tyrant (God the Father) and advocate (Jesus the son) as different persona of the same being.
Been sayin for yrs...READ THE BIBLE, YOU BECOME CHRISTIAN....UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE YOU BECOME..EX-CHRISTIAN! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Don't get too confident about the none's understanding, some people just read the Bibles/Qurans without understanding them and become non-religious or anti-religious. But certainly anyone that studies these things/bibliolatries in context becomes at least Liberal religious. You have to over-simplify to become a bibliolatrist Bible/Quran fundie just by allowing the book to mesmerize and hypnotize you.
It's kinda of tricky because after a while of reading it I thought I understood it lol.
I'm skeptical most churchgoers read the Bible, let alone understand it. My church services I've been to, the pastor/preacher jumps all around the book reading verses out of context and throws in an anecdote and some speculation, and wraps it up with relating it to our modern lives, sing songs, go home. Critically reading the text is not something I've experienced *in church*.
God isn’t the Bible. That’s actually confirmed in the first verse. Where’s the “gotcha” again?
Been reading and studying the Bible since 8; more methodically since my late teens and I am in my late 40s. I don’t have a big stage, big church. Have seen a lot of drama, abuse, personal struggles and everything else in between. But, I am Still a Christian by the grace of God, even more zealous than when I started. A person who doesn’t know Jesus will go back. A person who has understood Jesus by the gracious work of God, will not go back. Nothing complicated about it. And nothing to deconstruct if you were a true Christian.
He came to set the captives free was the first book I ever read....and I bought that shit too bruh. I'm still cleaning up the wreckage of my life from that shit
I started questioning everything when I was 8. I was taught the difference between fantasy and reality but even as a precocious kid everything I read in the Bible seemed to fall in the fantasy category and so I couldn’t understand why I was punished for constantly asking my preacher questions. I was and am a voracious reader and by age 10 I had read the whole thing and I just doubted it all. It took another decade for me to fully walk away from the community aspect of it all. It’s been total freedom for the next 24 years.
This is a stunning and moving interview. Well done to all.
Awesome program! Dr. Davis’s life story gives some helpful perspective to understanding what he is now doing with his deep knowledge of the history of the Christian religion. Thanks for sharing this.
"...at one point or another, they're going to have to deal with me." ~ Dr. Kipp. 👊😄...indeed.
I've been watching a lot of Dr. Kipp's videos lately, and somehow did not see this video until now. I was thrilled to know that he has a Reformed background as I do. I am a former OPC/PCA believer.
Fundamentalists are the ones that suffer the most when transitioning. - thank you, Dr Richard Carrier.
I enjoyed this interview very much. Please continue making these de-conversion stories of scholars.
Derek - the "Bible Scholar _____ Leaves Christianity" series is so excellent!
I loved this video... Everyone has a story and Kip's was fascinating, and told so honestly and humbly.... kudos to you for just letting Kip talk uninterrupted... too few interviewers feel they need to 'steer' or 'comment upon' a guest's story... the world could use a lot more good listeners like yourself... Also, Kip's last line was perfect - he 'stuck the landing' with a '10'. Thanks!!
I love hearing everyone’s story ❤
Brilliant mind. Compelling story, parenthood details' life choice changes, etc. His strict focused scholarship was developed early as a Christian. As an apostate, his knowledge of the bible must make for interesting objective criticism. Great interview.
Love these kinds of interviews, where we hear both their journey and why they are still passionate about scriptures & ancient cultures even if they aren't theists any longer.
So refreshing to hear this discussed openly. I was well trained, music ministry, nursing home ministry, in church for services and classes 5-6 days a week, of course the soul winning & bus ministry as well. At 14, I was training adults in soul winning and teaching music lessons. Home life was extremely abusive(mother-shaytered skull n facial bones over a decade).
Of course we were taught God is like a parent to us. So I was in constant fear of dying and landing in hell. By 15, I had notebooks full of questions from old to new testament. Of Course you learn quickly NOT to voice inconsistencies or questions(especially in a xtian school!l. Once I fully allowed myself to really QUESTION the bible, I was so guilt ridden. But I just could Not continue believing. At some point during my 15th year(age) I was removed from my home and sent too family in another state. Of course back then, we didn't have internet and finding resources to study were difficult. But I knew I'd NEVER go back to another christian faith, never. I am now 58, I left all organized religion by early 20's, I had already pulled away, but by then, I knew I was dine and never looked back.
Fascinating. As a person who finds history and religion exciting I find myself looking for reliable, credible resources. One of the questions I use to determine the veracity of a source is, who is this person and what are their biases. Where are they coming from. Dr. Kipp Davis is the genuine article. A seeker of the truth and a great teacher. Great questions. Great interview.
In light of your interests, I recommend the books/videos on YT by archaeologists Dr. Titus Kennedy, Joel Kramer, and Dr. Scott Stripling.
Around 41:45 he expresses my feelings on the Bible so well. Dr Bart Ehrnan and this gentleman as well as many other honest scholars, we really owe a debt to their efforts.
Im Jewish and i was raised religious. When I became an atheist it was a bit sad but I wasn't angry, afraid, or any strong emotion. But my Christian friends??? When they left the Church they all had crisis! They all had such a hard time that i didn't. It made me a little worried abiut how Christians bring their children up. I always felt sad for Christian children who are raised with the devil and hell and shame. Thats just not something Jewish people do. I dont have any religious trauma but my former Christian friends all do. I think the Church needs to change.
Christianity in US has a lot of awful incentives to keep the faith, not just hell fearmonger but the whole of apologetics' schtick.
I don't know much at all about Jewish communities to compare if they have subgroups of similar literal approach but the logistics and somewhat self-segregated communities are successful enough to allow even communities of Creationists to continue existing today with all education and information available.
I expect breaking faith would signify becoming ostracized from such communities, at least to an extent, and that could be particularly devastating when said communities also make religion such a strong part of your identity.
Any use of fear shame or guilt to control people should be rejected.
My deconstruction happened bit by bit, like being on a raft in a river and losing one plank at a time. Letting go of the plank 'the Bible is true' was the last step before I came out to myself and family as an ex-Christian. It has been tough, but also, as many here say, very liberating.
Fantastic interview. Love this.
I remember remarking to a JW I was talking to that “they” never seemed to read Christian literature outside their faith group. By literature, I meant, evangelical Christian literature. Later that day I realized I was the biggest hypocrite. I never read much religious literature outside of my faith group either. It started with reading books on world religions and evolved into literature written by liberal theological scholars, you know, the kind of books you somehow just don’t see in a church library. It took about 8 years of fighting with myself and realizing I can’t deal with the friction the cognitive dissonance was causing. I was mad at myself and still am that I didn’t take any time to seriously vet the things my religious tradition taught me. I just blindly believed.
JW are not allowed to. They get disfellowshipped if they do. 💙💙💙
What a fascinating and touching story!
I’m going through my own deconstruction and it’s a really lonely road when everyone around you is Christian. It’s hard pretending and I want to tell those closest to me, but the fear of rejection is real. Thank you for sharing!
There are three world ages is the thing most people aren't understanding.
Dr. Kipp is so awesome!
Well, not that awesome. Only a little bit.
@@DrKippDavis Sorry, Dr. Kipp, Elaine is right this time.
@Kipp Davis "Heaven forbid" that I should argue with you, but your story is so inspiring. This time, I must insist that I am right.
Thanks for sharing! Growing up Baptist in the US Midwest, I share several similarities with Kipp's early years, down to CHIC tracts as a preferred conversion tool, and the problem with Disney's choice of showtime, yes, Sundays at 6pm! We used to condemn (and secretly envy) other families that didn't show up for Sunday evening worship, convinced they were having more fun than we were. I even recall my mother expressing her suspicions aloud that Disney did this just to keep people from going to church.
I went to boarding school for 5 years in the early 70s. I had to attend mass every morning; the first two years in Latin no less. My indoctrination started from birth really and I was made to fear god as a child. He never was presented to me as a figure of love. He was a figure to fear.
Much later on, my son who was 16 at the time, helped me open my eyes about the whole thing. Somewhere in me, I never did believe. I de-converted in my late adult life and it was a slow process.
Always love Dr. Kipp Davis episodes. Love your t-shirt Derek.
Woah, what a story, Dr. Kipp! Much gratitude for your work.
Sunday evening services, in 80s, were the worst!
Why did we go?
We already went in the morning!
And yes, I wanted to watch Disney too!
I had this conversation last week with my wife, who also grew up Evangelical. But, because she lived on a farm, they were often snowed in on Sunday evenings, and she got to see the occasional episode. It dawned on me in that moment that I was literally in church EVERY Sunday night of my entire childhood. We NEVER missed a service because, in the city, there were never any excuses to do so.
@@DrKippDavis yup. Same here. Also, my mom was the main pianist for the church, so, she had to be there.
That vcr we got in ‘89 changed my life!
Anyway, I sincerely appreciate all the effort, both of you fellas do. It makes a huge difference to have knowledge, and to know many people are going through the same, difficult changes.
Keep doing the “Lord’s” work ;)
Cheers!
I gained so much insight from Dr. Kipp Davis. So much resonated with me. Thank you.
This ain't about arguments. It's about humanity.
As a Christian my understanding and engagement with the Bible has benefited immensely from scholars like Kipp. I completely agree that the modern apologetics industry is mostly concerned with soothing Christian anxieties using academic language. Critical study and faith aren't mutually exclusive, and Christianity is fortunately much broader than Protestant Evangelicalism.
I’ll be the only one to say this but I still believe in Jesus. God Bless❤
That makes 2 of us!!
Even though he was a failed end times preacher?
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; ***and then he shall reward every man according to his works.***
Truly I tell you, ***some who are standing here will not taste death*** before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom Matthew 16:27-28
*CHRISTIAN APOLOGETIC RATIONALIZATIONS*
*Rationalization #1: Matthew 16:28 refers to Jesus’ transfiguration, not his second coming.*
The transfiguration of Jesus is a story recorded in Matthew 17, Mark 9, and Luke 9.
*The preceding verse (verse 27) starts off the description of Jesus’ coming by saying he would come “in glory” with angels to dole out judgment to “every man”. That is not what happened in the transfiguration stories. Therefore, the explanation doesn’t work.* Some try to make it work by separating verse 28 from the preceding verse so that the two verses talk about different “comings”. This is a baseless tinkering with the passage in order to make a doctrine fit the scripture. The same Christians who do this will accuse other of taking verses out of context when they disagree with an interpretation. Yet, this is exactly what they do here.
*Rationalization #2: The word translated “generation” can mean “race”. So, Jesus meant the Jewish race would not die out before he returns.*
This is a manufactured definition to suit doctrinal purposes. *When you see “generation” in the New Testament is means just that - people living in a particular era, not a race of people.* Elsewhere when he speaks of the Jews, he does so by saying “Jews”. It’s rather strange that he would speak cryptically in just this one instance.
*Rationalization #3: When Jesus said “this generation shall not pass away” he meant the generation living at the time of the end times tribulation.*
*Correct! Jesus told his followers that they would go through persecution. So, he apparently thought they would be the generation living at the time of the end.* It is evident in the writings of the New Testament that first century Christians saw the tribulations they were going through as a fulfillment of Jesus’ prediction about the end times and the tribulation. If they saw it as such, modern Christians have no real justification not to see it that way as well.
Notice that Jesus didn’t say *“that generation”* - which would be the normal way of referring to a future generation. *He said “this generation”.* ***Besides through a plain common sense reading of the text, we know he meant the people alive while he was speaking because he said that some of his listeners (and the high priest at his trial) would still be alive to see his return to Earth.***
*Rationalization #4: When Jesus said that some of his listeners would be alive to see him return, he was talking about the Day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit descended on the church.*
This is another explanation that is so far from rational that is it hard to accept that anyone sincerely believes it. The Book of Acts tells the story of the Holy Spirit appearing over the heads of the saints as tongues of fire endowing them with the magical ability to speak in unlearned languages. *There is no mention of them seeing Jesus in the clouds with angels. The supposed event did not accompany the final judgment. None of the things Jesus said would occur at his return happened on the Day of Pentecost.*
*Rationalization #5: When it was revealed to John in his visions that Jesus would come quickly, it is to happen on God’s time scale, not a human time scale. “The time is near” and “coming quickly” are not to be taken literally. To God a thousand years is a day.*
This is actually the first Christian attempt (found in 2 Peter 3) to explain away the fact that Jesus had not come as expected. *Believers of the time had begun to waver in their faith because Jesus had not come back as promised.* The writer tells them not to listen to people who say, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” (2 Peter 3:4) By “fathers”, he evidently means the founding fathers of the faith who had all died by that time. *This is evidence that almost from the start of Christianity, believers have been wrestling with the apparent failure of their savior’s end times prophecy.* In verse 8, the writer tries to reassure them by saying, “with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” and continues in the next verse to say that the Lord is not slacking on his promise. He basically tries to make the argument that time is meaningless to God.
*This passage is in obvious contradiction to what Jesus himself said about his return and everything else written in the New Testament about it.* This contradiction raises the question: Did the Simon Peter, one of Jesus’ personal disciples, actually write this book? The most truthful answer: Not likely.
When reading 2 Peter, we must keep in mind when it was written. It is well-known that many of the writings floating around the early church were not written by the people claimed to have written them, but were forged by believers to push their particular doctrines. This is most likely the case with the book of 2 Peter.
*The first clue is that the writer acknowledged that “the fathers” have died. Since Peter was one of those founding fathers of the church, he couldn’t have written this book.* It has proven difficult for scholars to pinpoint exactly when the book was written, but they all place its origin sometime between 60 and 160 A.D. This means that it was written at least 30 years after Jesus’ crucifixion is believed to have taken place when he was 33. Assuming his disciples were somewhere around his own age and taking into account average life expectancy of that time and that, according to church tradition, the apostles were all killed, none of them would have likely been alive in 60 A.D. (the earliest date scholars say the book would have been written).
*So, what can we make of the fact that this is in the Bible? It was written by a believer who didn’t want Jesus’ failure to come to cause the faith to die out.* Knowing that Peter was a founding apostle and a personal disciple of Jesus who was deemed to be the first Pope of the Christian faction that came to be known as the Roman Catholic Church, the writer forged this book in Peter’s name. It seems likely that this was an attempt to keep believers in the nascent Catholic churches in the fold. This is not the only case of forgery to uphold Catholic doctrine. (There are other forgeries in the New Testament that have been recognized by scholars as such.)
*Whether written by the apostle Peter or something else, it is an obvious rationalization to try to deal with the failure of a prediction that came to be central to the Christian religion.* We do not accept similar rationalizations from modern-day doomsdayers and we shouldn’t accept them from ancient religious people either.
*Rationalization #6: In Matthew 16 when Jesus said some of his listeners would see him “coming in his kingdom”, he was talking about his coming into his kingdom in Heaven after his resurrection when he went back to Heaven. Many saw this event through visions.*
*This fails to take into account what Jesus said his “coming in his kingdom” would be connected to the day of judgment when he would “reward each according to his works”.* As far as I know, no Christian apologists say the judgment occurred when Jesus supposedly went back to Heaven in the first century. Everything in the New Testament places judgment day at the end of the world. Even if we were to throw the Matthew 16 passage completely out of the Bible, there would still be the problem of other passages where Jesus said *“this generation will not pass”* before he comes and New Testament writers testifying to their belief that he would come in their lifetime. *It is no wonder that this rationalization has largely been dropped by Christian theologians.*
*Rationalization #7: Maybe in our human understanding we don’t know what Jesus meant when he said “this generation would not pass away” and that “some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. He couldn’t have meant he was coming in the first century because he hasn’t come back yet and that would make him a false prophet.*
This rationalization is nothing more than interpreting the Bible by a doctrine you want to be true. If you’re going to believe in the Jesus of the Bible, shouldn’t you base your doctrines on what the Bible actually says? It is self-deceit to look at Jesus’ “prophecy” detailing his return in the lifetime of his disciples and rationalize why it didn’t happen. Only a mind interested in maintaining the illusion of faith could twist and mangle the plain words of the Bible the way Christians have in an attempt to make the incredible credible. An honest mind looking at the facts would have no choice but to admit that Jesus’ prophecy of the end of days has failed to come true.
*"Jesus’ Failed Prophecy About His Return | Black Nonbelievers, Inc."*
Also look up:
*"ex-apologist: On One of the Main Reasons Why I Think Christianity is False (Reposted)"*
Why do you believe?
@@epicofatrahasis3775 Well said. A real god/man with the most important story ever to believe leaves without equipping future generations with complete and reliable source material. We have no first person account from Jesus.
His followers likewise, are mostly lost to history too.
We have Paul and James both of which offer nearly nothing about Jesus of Nazareth.
(And Paul only claims a vivid vision).
Then we have 3rd hand accounts purported to be from eyewitnesses…but which eyewitnesses …hm…and these accounts are from individuals mostly lost to history too.
A real God could do much better at preserving such important history.
We have baked clay cuneiform tablets and Egyptian hieroglyphics on stone but of Jesus just scraps of papyrus and little to nothing from the mid-first century at all.
An almighty power wanting a personal relationship with his dear children is clearly capable of better preserving true events and quotations.
Me too. I love Jesus and I'm afraid of Hell. Just being honest. The Bible doesn't make 100% sense to me, it never did. There is enough there for a faith, but I completely understand why an atheist would be atheist. We all need to be as honest with ourselves as possible. If this life is all there is, and it may very well be, I should have just killed myself a long time ago.
Thankyou Dr Kip and Thankyou Derek. 💙💙
It’s time to start taking about that book! “How he came to set the captives free” Me and my cousins read the book and we had the same EXACT experiences. Before I read it; I had very minimum real life spiritual encounters. But afterwards I started seeing things and physically being attacked in dreams… I have stories. I also read The Divine Revelation of Hell which pushed me further into complete fear of what would happen if I didn’t totally commit to Jesus/ Christianity!
YES. The true story of Rebecca Brown is WILD. More people should know about this ridiculous bat-shittery.
@@DrKippDavisExactly!
Eat more meatfats. They heal the brainfog.
Interesting. For me I experienced demonic attacks years before I got serious in my faith. That was 10 or 12 years ago.
Now that I am trying to get serious in my faith I have experiences again.
Even though my logic is the biggest deterrent I have to acknowledge through my experiences that it's a fact evil, or demonic entities do exist . That can't be if their is no God. I have also felt presence of God a couple of times in my life.
But even after these truths, I still have trouble with the Bible and how God is portrayed.
Now add anxiety and fear of hell for feeling this way and you have a mess.
Amazing interview. I watched it non stop until the end. Fascinating to hear these deconversion stories.
Yeah, I can’t imagine finding an English speaking church in Norway is easy.
My ex was Norwegian and he managed to reach 17 without having met a single believer, or ex-believer. Granted, this is not the experience of all Norwegians but it goes to show how little impact the religion has in the country. Can’t imagine this possibly happening in the States.
Let’s pray that it does! LOL😂
We actually found a church near the university where I worked that had an English translator in their services most of the time. But, as you can imagine, even that was difficult, and we very shortly just stopped going after a few Sundays.
@@DrKippDavis My ex’s village- tiny, tiny place along the Sogne fjord- did not even have a functioning church. It had closed as one and now served as a community centre of sorts. And it was only build in the 50’s, the reason being that there was a legend to the effect that the day church bells rang in the village, the mountains would shatter. They didn’t.
The church building itself is very much space age as was often the case in those days. So you get this bright, reddish rocket-like building in the middle of a cluster of the usual wooden houses you’d see in any Norwegian village.
Interestingly enough, studying foster and adoption was the spark that lead to my questioning briefs about sin. Months of study later, I woke up one day and realized I'd been reasoned out of my previous beliefs in the Bible. I tried to find answers to defend my beliefs, because confirmation bias. I just never found any satisfactory answers that responded to what is clearly observable about human nature.
I'll add a little detail for those interested. I was reading The Connect Child. There was a case study (although the author made it clear this was a rare case) where a child was treated for malnutrition. What makes this case so rare is that was the only intervention, and the child stopped suffering from reactive attachment disorder. From my belief at the time, that would be like saying taking vitamins cured the child's spirit of part of its sinful nature. 🤣 There had to be more to the story! I went looking for answers only to discover while that case story was rare, there was a myriad of similar stories about the impact of biology on behavior. Transcranial Magnetic Simulation can be used to predictably change who someone will be charitable towards within 30 minutes of treatment, predicted by which part of the prefrontal cortex was impacted by the treatment. Again, the examples are endless, and there's no counter examples.
Those who believe in free will would tell me that you have free will until something messes with it. You can't study it, because the moment you try, it no longer exists. 🤔 How is that NOT blind faith? But then the same people use free will to back up their other claims.
"The best theology would need no advocates; it would prove itself."
Karl Barth
Congratulations to Dr Kipp Davis
I watched this the other day in bed and literally clapped at the end!
thank you Dr. Davis
you really go in depth,
i got to the lectures through Paulogia
Digital Hammurabi was a trailblazer❤
Yes, he was. I feel terrible that I so badly undersold his work in the interview. Everyone needs to buy Josh's books. They are fantastic.
This is wonderful. I love the idea of having a 'testimony' to ones leaving the faith. I love his characterization of James White. His child's fear of heaven, hell and death is heartbreaking. From the mouth of babes, indeed. Thank you to both.
I needed a Savior because of my past sins. According to His word, He breathed into me His breath of life when I acknowledged and accepted His sacrificial atonement for my sins by shedding His BLOOD. He sent His Holy Spirit, who is His Seed in me- the new man, who leads, teaches, interprets the word I study and enables me to understand and live by it, by my faith!
John 20:22; 14:26; 1 John 3.
As long as I abide in Him, having been justified as soon as I received Him, He imputed the righteousness of God in Him to me, by His Holy Spirit, but I must remain in Him, in the fold in which He placed me,until the redemption of all His purchased possession.
We're still in this world, and life happens, so when I'm getting tempted, the Holy Spirit in me reminds me of pertinent scriptures, which are alive. If I put them aside and ignore them, he restricts me in ways that will prove that I'm going the wrong way. If I listen and obey, I'm convicted, and go to Him for forgiveness 1 John 1:9, then quickly forgive myself (that is the most difficult thing to do), and bring Romans 8:1 to mind, so I can get back on the narrow road. There are two roads: the one leads to life here and then eternal life in Him, as member of His body, sitted withHimin God, in heavenly places. 1 Corinthians 15; 1 thesalonians 4; Romans 8. I get restored and will learn from experience that it was better to abide in His fold, even if life is boring and no one knows about me, His will for me will eventually come to pass as it is written, living by the law of the Spirit of life IN Christ Jesus!
The other leads to destruction and death here, and eternal damnation and separation from God in the lake of fire and brimstone Job 14:22; Isaiah 66:24.
If I rebel and simply go on with what I wanted to do, after so many remonstrations, He will step aside, because everything I do from then on will hurt and make Stain His Holiness. Then, the devil will get the opportunity to go tattle to God, and get permission to steal, kill and destroy. There will my troubles begin. Because I'm now operating in the flesh I will have to go look for physical solutions and no longer have to go ask God. Buy since I still want to act religious, I begin to look for false and fake pastors to pray for me, because I am too guilty to face the Lord.
I look for things to feed my lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and pride of life. I may even land a very great job or opportunity to be wealthy and renown. This will bring me into the limelight as I hide what sacrifices I had to be making each step of the way, since I no longer depend on the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of my Savior, Jesus Christ. Pride is the next level that eventually pushes me off the cliff of life. Then, the devil and his spirits will come with fear, then oppressed, then afflictions, then addictions, then sickness and will lose everything I went astray for, then finally, death and destruction and corruption of the body. Fulfilling the law of sin and death!
On judgment day, those who never accepted Jesus Christ as Messiah will have a better deal than the one who had professed His falsely. To whom much is given, much is required.
To professe that you are a Christian, but don't know anything about the Lord that saved you and the blood that bought you, is showing that you're not His. He knows His sheep and they know Him. They will only follow His voice and not another, no matter what gains are promised, and they remain in the fold until He returns.
The lost sheep story is only for Israel, because He will return to look for them and bring them back into fellowship with the Father, because He was a minister for the circumcision, until they rejected Him and God now concluded all the world under sin, and He became their Savior by His sacrificial work of salvation John 12:32; John 19:30.
Things still happen daily to make the believer sin, but the new man in them overcomes them by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony. This is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith!
That is why He never leaves us alone, but as long as we're 2 or 3, gathered together in His Name, He is there in the midst of us.
I'm not talking about church gatherings!
He leads His own, because they're like a baby in the hand of their parent! They trust Him unless one becomes a child, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven!
We kill the flesh daily, we die daily and get quickened by the Holy Spirit in us, because our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, if any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy, for the temple of God is Holy, whose temple we are.
God fights our battles, that is why we don't go looking for trouble, because we bare the mark of Christ and those who trouble us will be troubled and cut off Galatians 5:10,12.
The book of Psalms, Proverbs, Romans, Galatians etc. helped me get through daily, as I see His Faithfulness, even in my adversities, and pains. His words comforted me, they still do, and will continue until He returns. (Especially Psalms 2,3,4,6,10,11,12,13,16,18,20,31-35, 44, 32, 51, during so much pressure, 56, 57, 115-119, 46, 144 140-142- all of them, with tears and hope of being heard 1 John 5. He is Faithful and True! He is the Lord, God Almighty! None can compare with Him. Be encouraged!
I have so much to say, but let's stop here for now!
Amen
Good grief. wake up from that hypnotic nonsense and use your brain to investigate what the early Christians believed. Their beliefs were not what yours have morphed into at all.
Wonderful story, thank you both for sharing this.
Except for being Canadian, he seems like a normal human .!!!
😂😂😂
LOL.
What an ignorant insulting comment
@@fibonacimike4110 Lighten up. I thought it was funny.
I became an atheist at 12 when I reasoned a good god and hell were mutually exclusive! Then I was 17 when I saw the exorcist which freaked me out! I struggled for a couple years trying to figure it out. Just decided it made no sense anyway!
"An atheist professor doing his damnist to make his students the best possible Christians" - Kipp Davis 😂 That's why we love Kipp!
Thanks Dr. Kipp and Derek that was very interesting.
Really sad😢 when someone loses their faith, because they had religion but no relationship with a personal saviour.
Yup, quite obviously we need to be saved from the wrath of the loving God who intentionally created 1/3 of his angels with rebellious tendencies, and a penchant for dragging humanity into sin while said God watches with folded arms.
Save us master! Save us from this diabolical plan you set in place to ensure our demise without you swooping in to sacrifice yourself to yourself!!!
Sad? Nah-That’s a victory for Logical thinking, True Inquiry, and favoring Justified beliefs. It’s a VICTORY.
Well, no. For many years I had what I understood to be a vibrant, vivid and very meaningful relationship with Jesus. I read my Bible, prayed and worshiped prolifically, and I was convinced that I heard from god, and saw evidence of his care and involvement in my daily life all the time. The thing is, after a while, I came to realise that these deeply compelling and highly emotional experiences I had were constructs of my own brain-which is incredibly good at manufacturing reality. After a while, I just stopped believing, and, wouldn't you know it? All those "spiritual" experiences ended altogether.
my little sister got baptized when she was 1-2 ish. she shocked everyone by pulling the Bible into the font and ripping out some of the pages during the blessing.
Asking an atheist "What is your mission?" Really funny.
Survive
I know this is 7 mos late, but I would like to thank Dr. Davis for his willingness to adopt children that may have issues which can prove challenging for most parents to cope with. I was a professional most of my career, but for about a decade I volunteered at an abused children's center near me and that I had helped set up. I came from a fundamentalist christian cult (jehovah witnesses) which in the 60's and 70's in our small town had strict rules which fed right into my father and stepmother's physical and mental abuse and torture as they used religion and the bible as a kind of support for their ideals. When the elders found out what was going on at home, when the State took my younger brother away into the foster system due coming to school with bruises covering his entire back and legs, these elders did nothing to my parents in order to keep it from the public. I grew up in a town of 2,500 people. 1975 was the religion's last specific date of Armageddon according to their views of scripture and with my parents always calling me the son of the devil, a demon, jehovah was going to kill me by Dec. 31, 1975. No high school (I was 13), car, first kiss, and I believed that jehovah was going to kill me slowly and painfully. But when Jan. 1st 1976 came, I believe religion was bunk and just a way to control people and I began to hate religion and the elders who turned a blind eye. Even so, I had to get baptized at 15 or get more harsh punishments and stove burnings, horsewhips and electrocutions even could break me, so I had to comply until I was an adult and able to leave the house. When I was 8 I told myself consciously to please trade my emotions for the strength to help my 2 brothers survive, but I failed, something that I think will always bother me to some degree. I tried to end it all twice before I was 20, but guess I subconsciously didn't really want to do it! But I didn't know how to be human, I just wore whatever mask I thought was needed, i.e. work, firm Xmas party, etc. and then I would go be alone. Of course, I don't know you and your wife personally, but watching your videos, Dr. Davis, I'm sure your son's anxiety will improve with time and love if it hasn't already. But so many people are not willing to get a kid whose had a rough time or has medical issues a chance, so that's why I thank you and your wife for doing it. My brother started in the foster system at 11 and was never adopted, so when he turned 18 the State gave him $20USD and a free bus ticket anywhere within the State and kicked him out on the street. They would not tell where he was when he was taken at 11 and it took me until he was 16 or 17, I believe it was, when I finally tracked him down. He had been through 7 foster homes in those 5 or 6 years. He told me 3 years ago that the judge said me and his older brother refused to testify on his behalf on the a use charges, but no one would talk to us and we were made to sit in our rooms. So, for 47 years my brother thought his brother's didn't give a damn about him and he kept it inside him all those years. I cannot tell you how many people told me not to have any kids, because I would abuse them as inhumanely as I was. But I married my 2nd wife when I was 38 and my son was born just 3 years later. I was so scared of what I might do when he cried at night and he was born at a busy work time for me, so what difficulties could that bring? You cannot imagine how deathly scared I was! But, I was determined to prove that a victim does not always do as the abuser does. And it work fine! If I felt myself getting frustrated, I would just tell my wife "it's your turn, sweetie." Unfortunately because my fear ran into my son's 4th and 5th year, we ended up not able to have children of our due to brain injury I had suffered and a bodywide nerve disease, both of which cannot be corrected.
As my son got into kindergarten age, we told him that if he wanted to go to any church with his friends or alone, I would go with him. His mother is Russian Orthodox and I am an atheist, but I have always told my son that I will him what I know of a religious sect or take him to a service and we can get info from the priest dude! I never discourage him, except scientology or cult sects, cause I lived through one and he doesn't need that. I told about the fact that there is a diversity in people and we should celebrate that, not be disrespectful or intolerant. He is his 3rd year of college due to transfer into Uni as a music composition and performance major, his mother is a classical piano teacher who began teaching him at 3 y.o. (last he won Top Solo Pianist in our part of the State, which accounts for over half) His group of friends is your typical geeky, good grades, gaming, etc. and one of his good friends is gay and his best friend is Trans and she came out to my before anyone else because she knows my son won't judge her and will always support her.
I left christianity with an extremely bitter taste in my mouth. I have PTSD nightmares starring me and my family members 3-4 times a year for decades (I'm 61 now, I had begin studying with a JW sister when I was 6), and though my father died of a massive coronary while giving the closing prayer at book study in 1992 (also shortly before disowning my older brother because he's gay). These have religious themes or connections about half the time. The last I had was last Oct. 2023 and I was walking down a small pebble path, entering a house, only to hear my stepmother's voice sounding demonic telling me I better run and find the hidden sword or she will kill me first. A smoky wisp of a cloud looking just like her floats pass me. I run and have to listen to her ramble on and on (I can't remember what those words were) and running I turn right into a kitchen and open up a cabinet door hoping to find something to kill a smoky cloudy! As the door opens a wooden flap folds down and outwards as a twin bladed broadsword each blade 8-9" wide and 1-2" between the blades, at high speed ram through the center of my chest as I am held on the blade a half foot off the floor as the I look down at the ever enlarging pool of blood! Next I am walking in the opposite direction on that same pebbled pathway and I see a large roosters head made of rattan and I stop and ask it, "have I now paid enough for the sins of the world?" The dream ends as I continue walking. I talked to a therapist friend of mine and he said wait and see if they go away now that both parents gone, you have no connection to the religion or any parishioner (I was disfellowshipped in 1981 and shunned since).
That's my story, sorry it went too long, but I also wanted to thank Dr. & Mrs. Davis for their choice to adopt, since children who need someone has a special place in my heart. And excellent video Mathison and Dr. Davis for such an interesting subject and information. Now I will shut up.! LOL 🤠🏜🦎🐍🌵🎹🌅
When people leave Christianity, they're not aware that they're already gone before they leave.
That is so true and that is why people don’t have respect for Christians. It’s actually not a Christian that’s doing the foolish thing it’s someone that never got in or someone on their way out.
1:20 " . . . where you come from, what you believed, where you were at, your journey into what you learned, what you have become, and how that has impacted you with your faith, and where you are today."
In other words, the oft repeated, "What it was like, What happened, and What it's like now."
Wow. Another Christian has vanished. The rapture is really happening!
Any evidence for that claim?
I was Catholic. Catholic high school church history class started me on my road to atheism, particularly learning about apocrypha. Thanks Marist brothers. Lol
Read that book by Rebecca Browning. Scared the holy crap out of me.
@6:10 Sounds like scare tactics grift, if Rebecca Brown really believed any of the things she is/was saying why isn't she hunting down these Christian-believing Wealthy demons down like Buffy the Vampire Slayer? With camara videos and court verdicts vindicating her evidenced "pre-emptive counter-attacks" and all.
@@beemixsy it's CRAZY.
Before she wrote the book, she also did an interview with the one-and-only Jack T. Chick. If you dug around on the internet, you should be able to find it. It is called "Cliset Witches."
Welcome to reality DR K.