Hoi4: What if Italy was actually COMPETENT
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- Опубліковано 16 чер 2024
- The Italians get a pretty bad wrap for their performance in WW2. But what if they were...better?
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This is like doctor doofenschmirtz actually taking over the world and stopping Perry
Tri state area*
fuck it perry - we doin this
lmao
@@namethefifth7315 Beat me to it
Behold! My compitence-anator!!!
@@rustyblade-zr6ph he should have made that
I realy apreciate not just sticking with the "HA HA Italy bad" meme but actualy pointing out that they were simply not ready for a war when they were draged into it.
What do you mean dragged into, Mussolini declared on Ethiopia, France and Greece on his own, nobody forced him to do it and nobody dragged Italy into war.
@@baroku94Germany made all members of the axis sign the "pact of steel" essentially saying if anyone attacks or is attacked the other members must also declare war.
Hitler kept musolini under the impression that war wouldn't start till at least 1946-48.
He thought he had more time so was completely unready for war
I am familiar with Italy's performance during WW2. and WW1 for that matter.
It was honestly embarrassing. Yes they were *hopelessly* unprepared, but they did not let that stop them going on the offensive.
The fact that they had to get bailed out of the invasion of Greece that they started by Germany really showcases that (note that Hitler very specifically told Mussolini not to do it and he did it anyway), since at the time Greece was an absolute mess which was arguably even worse prepared for war than Italy.
Mussolini bears a huge part of the blame for this, as his ego repeatedly dragged italy into fights they could not win and got them slaughtered.
Not to the level Luigi Cadorna got them slaughtered in WW1, I grant you, but that is a high bar to clear. Few commanders in all of history can compete with Luigi for throwing away the lives of their troops in suicidal offensives.
The number of unforced errors Mussolini made during that campaign are worth noting. One of which was starting his offensive in October. October, for context, is the middle of Italy's harvest season. That means that Mussolini had the choice of either conscripting his workforce for his military campaign (thus dealing a significant economic blow as he would lose out on a major portion of the year's harvest due to lack of manpower) or sending the young men to work the fields (thus weakening his military due to loss of a major portion of his conscripts). Italy was on the offensive. They could have delayed until after the harvest to avoid making this choice. Greece was not in a position to attack them at the time.
The Italian military was not inherently incompetent. even the much memed upon tankettes make sense when you consider that most of Italy's land boarders are through mountain passes where heavy tanks are completely impractical. However, their leadership in general and Mussolini in particular were either comically incompetent or grossly negligent, routinely neglecting logistics and morale and rendering their army inefficient from the top down.
@@FuelDropforthewin Essentially all of the Italian generals (except for a few like Giovanni Messe) were purely hired for ideological loyalty. Mussolini had essentially wanted to make a loyal army but it would have been too much of an investment on Italy's generally weak economy (that was still recovering from the great depression) to make a strong one (when there was no war in the near future). Similiar to other dictators, loyal generals tend to lie about the situation to make it seem better than it actually was. Mussolini probably didn't know the full extent of the situations with the Italian forces until they were essentially out of the war (not that anything would probably have been done at that point anyways.
Sounds like something an Italian would say
Difficulty: impossible
Austria calls for aid!
...and Italy shall answer!
Wait, really?!?
Shockingly, yes.
What if Spain joined the axis?
Or; a better interesting option, what if the Republicans won the CW, Spanish Democracy survives, and then they join the Allies?
After the civil war, Spain had little to no industry, manpower and also quality equipment so it would likely be a speed bump for the allies
I'll expand on tis and ask "What if Spain joined the Axis and took control of Gibraltar?" Would that mean that the Siege of Malta and the african campaign would be easier for the Axis?
Well, spain was pretty weak after thier own little war...
They'd be crushed, as they were extremely weak after the civil war, which would open a new front for Germany and Italy.
What if japan didn't attack the USA and focus on helping on operation barbarossa from the other side
It probably depends on whether or not the Battles of Khalkhin Gol are mandatory or not.
the only major change would be the war lasting longer, no matter what japan would have to declare war on the west due to severe lack of resources and embargos
@@Nomsyyyy well, it seems you lack the imagination, without Japan triggering usa maybe they stayed out of it for years and that would give time to operation barbarossa without a powerful D day, and also Stalin having a 2 front wars in Siberia would not be fun for him
@@FelipeTempestad17 i think youre someone whose history knowledge only comes from hoi4, even before ww2 the second sino japanese war was going on. during the second sino japanese war several close calls came with american vessels shipping to china in turn already damaging relations. the reason japan struck in 1941 was due to a severe lack of rubber, steel and oil. without these they wouldnt win the second sino japanese war as it was in a stalemate. all that would happen would be the war lasting longer and maybe just maybe a victory in stalingrad due to having less resources to put against the germans. no matter what the allies wouldve went in on japan or vise versa. please learn your history * EDIT fixed a minor spelling mistake *
Literally nothing would change. The soviets always had a pretty large force on the Japanese border even at the worst points of Operation Barbarossa. The Japanese were always tied up in China and I don't think they could even break through the soviet line.
There are more focuses to help pacify Ethiopia, like "topple Amhara rulers"
18:20 When he said "if you want to see what would happen, like this video", the like counter went up while I was watching it. Timing.
What If the German officers had opposed the funny mustache man?
(Like would they really bring back the democracy or return the Kaiser or even keep the power for themselves)
Interim military governments have a historical tendency to interpret the term "interim" very loosely.
Return of the German HRE would be baller!
@@AnimeFreak40K Especially if it means Kaiserin Victoria Louise...
namely because I've been asking for that one every time he does this
@@nightspawnson-of-luna4936
Oh, I have too! My 4th bullet/suggestion is exactly the HRE w/Kaiserin Victoria!
DNVP
Communist Cambodia playthrough hoi4
No please no
This is not the search bar xd
Monthly population -1000%
No
Take the khmer rouge pill
Whaf if King Gustav V of Sweden decided to make Sweden an absolute monarchy again, all because he wanted to return Sweden to the good old days of the reign of Charles XII at the start of the 18th century?
What if Austria Refused the german ultimatum and joined the Allies
The allies would abandon them
@@cpdangertv3868 Yep! the UK and France had no intention of actually living up to their geantees and threats, and where shocked when mustache man and fat boy called their bluff.
They basically did and got overthrown by their own people. The allies wouldn't be able to do anything and wouldn't even want to. One: appeasement was still the order of the day. And two: while the Austrian government was taken out by a coup it was very much one by popular support.
When mustach man went into Austria, it was originally to set up a German friendly puppet state. However upon his motorcade being met with cheering Austrians welcoming him with tears in his eyes he was moved into annexing them outright. This was against the will of his advisors who were vehemently against outright annexation fearing that with it being directly prohibited by the treaty of Versailles would provoke an immediate war with the allies.
It might be hard but 'What if Spain never had a civil war.'
All I know is that in any playthrough where I reenact the Rome Protocols, Germany can't even get through France.
What if Mexico joined the Axis at the start of the war in Europe.
Alternate history: Operation Unthinkable, aka an Allies-Comintern war after WW2
Allies get stomped by the soviets and can only win by dropping their limited number of nukes on military formations
@@spacemarine3482lmao
The idea that the soviets would "stomp" the combined forces of the allies is a child's fantasy at best.
The massive industrial base of the USA, as well as the existing navies of the Allies (including UK, US, captured japanese and German fleets) would make any Soviet attempt at naval superiority futile. The soviets would have to keep significant garrisons all over their shorelines to not risk an allied naval invasion, even if only temporary.
Even being charitable and assuming a Soviet offensive could overrun the allied armies in mainland Europe, anything across the water would be a huge challenge, not to mention that the allies had a far superior Air force in comparison, meaning that traditional bombing campaigns would be on the Allies' favor, damaging Soviet industrial base and people's war support without much means of counter by the red air force.
The only significant risk would be the development of Nuclear weapons by the soviets, but even then, in the early years of post WW2 they were tactical weapons rather than the Destructive MAD weapons they would become in later decades, meaning even if they managed to appropriate the materials and technology to develop nukes during a war against the allies, they still wouldn't be a master key to end the war.
@@joelfilho2625 Ya no while not nearly as vast the Red Airforce still would have been more than a match to disrupt bombings for at least a few years before attrition would take it's tool. As for the Allies they would be stuck trying to sell a war that no one would have wanted while the soviets just got another massive propaganda line of the western capitalists traitors are finally coming to destroy the revolution after an attempted genocide. Also the soviets don't need to worry to much about the naval situation considering their is no trade or objectives for them to purpose that require one other than an invasion of the UK which they would recognize as impossible. You also vastly overstate the capabilities of the Western armies the soviets had a father greater number of men and far more experienced formations. All the soviets need to do is take France and the war becomes unwinnable for the allies as the populations get tired of the war and unrest begins to build.
This operation didn't happen because England and US didn't have the means to make it happen. The plan was based on nuking 200 Soviet cities with 300 nuclear bombs. There was absolutely no way they could accommodate such a large scale nuclear operation. It's not as if they chose not to do it,they couldn't.
@@spacemarine3482 Soviets could barely handle Germany by themselves, let alone the US + UK.
Aka Italy abuses alliance with Germany to get its demands and then DOESN'T join the war until 1944 and even then only on Allied side? Because that's what a competent choice on italian part would be.
It would be Italy pulling an Italy from 1915 😂
Thank you! That myth needs to die.
@@TheSkyGuy77Bruh that’s not what happened in 1915,study more from books and less from memes
@Stakuyi I have a new one for you:
What if Finland joined the Allies instead of doing the Continuation War? (Winter War will still occur)
Ah yes, a question i always wondered
Mussolini: Me fail military? That's unpossible.
This what if series is actually so interesting, I would love to see more of it
We need that possibility explored: how bad would Operation Barbarossa go for both the Germans and the Russians, with Germany being stretched even thinner, and Russia not having the Lend/Lease Act supporting them.
Putting these ideas out there, because I'd like to see the historical commentary take:
- What if the Kodaha Faction succeeded in taking over the military and pulling the Emperor into more direct control? (Japan Monarchist/Non-Aligned path)
- What if Poland, despite all odds, was able to get its act together and either resist the Germans or, perhaps, ally with them against the Soviets? (Poland cedes Danzig, goes fascist or something else entirely...having Wojtek lead the way would be extra hilarious)
- What if Italy brings back the actual Roman Empire (not the 'Greater Italy' that this video did, but the actual Roman Empire. Extra points for it to be lead by the the Pope)
- What if Germany somehow, through some wild twists of fate, somehow manages to bring back the Holy Roman Empire? (not sure if you've done this 'hidden' path yet for Germany or not)
What if Turkey was persuaded to picked a side (very early in the war)
This was a very good video Stakuyi, I have enjoyed your work before, but this one has to be my favorite one to date. I’ve pondered this question for a while.
New scenario: What if Sweden did something?
This is the first long form video of yours I've watched, really interesting video, learned a lot alongside some awesome HOI4 gameplay
I love these videos. They give interesting gameplay while also showing me things in history I missed.
I really like this story telling type playthrough keep up the good work
Really loved how you did this one!
This is a very interesting alternate history. Well done!
Love these vids keep em coming!!!
Video 14 of asking stakuyi to play as the Katzenartig Imperium in equestria at war
It is an april fools collaboration between the devs from EaW and the devs from the stellaris mod Gigastructural Engineering, the nation is the kingdom of abyssinia, you play as Kaiser Kattail, who has just arrived from another reality and attempts to take over the world utilizing his knowledge of mechanized warfare and megastructures to give his empire a gigantic edge.
(for his focus tree to show up, you have to enable it at the game rules menu at the bottom)
Yes
Man I am really liking these videos
definitely would like to see that final scenario you proposed as a future video. Basically carry the save game further and see what happens. Maybe not as Italy or you'd be bored but both USSR and Germany would be interesting to take on
What if Japan invade the Soviet Union at the same time as the Germans.
Italy: don't blame me, blame Germany instead!
Really like these kinds of videos!
What if Stalin's paranoia was real and he was overthrown by Trotsky or Tsarists.
Haven't seen many people do a Trotsky run. At least not recently that I remember. Would be cool.
@fidoruh Yeah the only time I've ever seen it is in ahistorical runs I've played
Loved the voice crack at 7:30
Yessss, we want more of Stakuyi Caesar. I need to see you rebuild Rome in Crusader Kings next.
Haven't watched it and already liked it cause I love these what ifs.
Let's see a part 2 including Barbarossa
Addis Ababa: Falls two months before real timeline
Game timeline: *goes fuckywucky*
0:26 speedrunners: october '36, take it or leave it
Thank you for doing this one, where we see where different decisions could have resulted rather than using exploits. : )
You forgot to talk about how the manufactory was very customized and hand created. They did not use assembly line processes. So everything took forever to was very expensive and in small quantities.
I love this style of video. Please do more HOI4 alt-history lessons!
Germany in this scenario wouldn‘t have to invaide the soviets for there recources and so might give themselves more time before the invaison
I'd love to see you explore the Italians being competent and standing up to the Germans, yah
I enjoyed this alternate history!
great video!
loving the content gonna join your discord I would love to see you play millennium dawn as modern Poland and be a special forces and armor mercenary group who you use to gain money and power across the world
I love this format. Great video!
It be great to see the alternative if Italy resisted Germany in Austria.
I love your HOI4 AARs
funny moustache man screws over funny hat man and the funny boat man didn't have to worry about either of those two only thing we were missing was the funny magic man
Simply by being prepared Italy became a serious powerhouse.
What if the US abandoned neutrality in the late 30s? Like maybe caused by the Sino-Japanese War, the Spanish Civil War, or the Invasion of Poland.
Great Video, how about a scenario were Finnland expects the winter war and manages to win it, by taking karelia?
4:02 You were right the first time. I think around 3/4 of the Italian economy was in the public sector during Mussolini's reign
If there is a chance , I'd love to see how would czechoslovakia fair if they didn't give Sudetenland and how would that affect German war machine
I enjoyed this WhatIfAltHistoryOfEverything
Supply Trucks will help with resistance faster. They are also fast to produce. Once its down you can switch it over back to horses.
Thanks for the video.
What if Italy was competent is the ultimate counterfactual alternate history.
I have a game idea! What if Yugoslavia fixed its problems before the war? It is best done through the disolusion and reunification path of the focus, where you can cheese it by letting the little puppets go down their own focuses for some time before reunification.
One also has to remember that Italy was largely agrarian with its industrial base purely owned by either state-subsidized corporations or artisanal style workshops with a handful of specialists. Italy simply does not have many areas in the country to sustain the resource intense needs of industry despite its wealth of manpower among the Axis powers.
Oh and Britain also preemptively blockaded their economy before the war to prevent imports of goods that could make that happen from annexed territories.
Stak you probably know better but if I'm remembering correctly, Italy not being ready is a massive understatement and the 1942 date might be incorrect. In William L. Schirer's Rise and Fall of the Third Reich (which I HIGHLY recommend everyone read) Schirer mentions a communique between von Ribbentrop and his Italian counterpart (who's name escapes me at the moment) where the Italians were very concerned about Germany's timeline because they estimated they'd be ready for war in 1952! I don't remember if von Ribbentrop ever mentioned this to Mr. Moustache but I do remember when reading that, that a lot of things started to make sense when it came to Italy's performance.
Ribbentropp is by far a biased source, like almost all german generals post-war memoires.
Would have loved to see the end of AI Germany vs AI Soviet Union duking it out.
Great LP, great series, keep it up :)
9:11 I usually just form IEA. It completes the mission, and if you refrain from calling them into wars, you don't have to waste time, effort, and resources defending them.
Basically, you don't have to worry about anything that goes on in East Africa for the entire rest of the game, which is really handy.
What if France didn't appease (At Munich Conference)
I would like to see what if Italy joined the allies.
If you wanted I think that the Italo Balbo alt-fasc path is a better timeline for it.
Italo Balbo was the guy who actually negotiated with the UK about Italy at least not joining the war. iirc his path is all about incredible compliance gain
What if Trotsky took over the Soviet Union?
I can't come up with more what ifs 😂
Kinda disagree with the peacedeal for africa. The Germans would definitely want at least their former colonies back and might even go for the congo to connect them
As Italy, after knocking out Ethiopia in mid-March, I like attacking Turkey to get their steel, and in turn Romania's oil. I've done it late 1936, with the war for Romania usually taking until 1938 to complete, but I never have to fight the Allies before the start of WW2. Getting troops onto the shore in Romania is difficult, so I sometimes wait until I form my own faction and have Bulgaria's help.
Every time I try to get Russia's oil, I can never push them far enough and I get bogged down, and I'm terrible at navy stuff, so my fleet gets ravaged by the French and British. Still learning so many things about this game!
fun fact, mussolini sent 250k guns to Spain about 2 years before Italy itself gone to war.
I'm not gonna lie, I saw you and I was like "oh look the lame guy with a cool wife is making hoi videos!" and watched it just to check it out, but it's really good!! keep it up
Here's an idea you could pursue in a later video with Italy. We know in the focus tree, the Italians can recreate Rome. In the spirit of that idea, what if Mussolini aimed to create a spiritual successor to the Roman Empire via the creation of a Mediterranean military/economic bloc?
Can you please do a what if the invasion of Iran failed in the 1940s/Iran won against the Soviets and UK? It would be very interesting to see Iran being able to fight and win to secure their sovereignty. They could expel the allies and secure their own resources for themselves, instead of being exploited for their oil or other resources.
I really like these videos and would like to learn how to play HOI4. Any suggestions on how best to start??
WHAT IF:Switzerland went total opportunist.
Incompetence and curroption was the major things that held Italy back.
This was a brilliant video, so glad you picked that comment!
What if the yugoslavia joined the axis instead of being invaded
I wonder what the world would look like if you could play WW1, WW2, and the years in between the two wars. Though that probably would be a huge undertaking.
Also what I don’t really see people talk about is that Italy was really just a German puppet in 1943 or 1942 Italy was at a civil war and Germany just put Benito Mussolini as a puppet leader against the allied side
Most unrealistic alt history scenario so far, loving the series
What if Poland didn’t listen to the allies and actually built up their military
The 2nd war in Ethiopia was a relatively easy one even for the Italians. Ethiopia is a big country with a big population and with relatively modern weapons and foreign advisors. Taking it in a year isn't bad at all.
What if turkey joined Soviet Union at the start of barbarosa.
Still pulling for Puyi growing a spine 💯
Why are you never using the nice one field marshal frontline? You always do this one where you get these mini frontlines.
What if America and Japans prewar goal of 'one big fight near the Philippines' actually happened?
You should have player lead conferences on
I thought the german ai was programmed to not sealion, so did he use commands for it or is there an actual chance of them doing it themselves if the british fleet isn't there?
What if Turkey went communist and joined the war at Barbarossa
I’d love to see allied Competent Italy
I'd like to watch Italy in Allies scenario! Moreover, you can switch Mussolini to Dino Grandi, who's trying to improve relationship with Allies in his path
this must've been HARD
Please do a Focus on the Navy video in Hoi4