I realy apreciate not just sticking with the "HA HA Italy bad" meme but actualy pointing out that they were simply not ready for a war when they were draged into it.
@@baroku94Germany made all members of the axis sign the "pact of steel" essentially saying if anyone attacks or is attacked the other members must also declare war. Hitler kept musolini under the impression that war wouldn't start till at least 1946-48. He thought he had more time so was completely unready for war
I am familiar with Italy's performance during WW2. and WW1 for that matter. It was honestly embarrassing. Yes they were *hopelessly* unprepared, but they did not let that stop them going on the offensive. The fact that they had to get bailed out of the invasion of Greece that they started by Germany really showcases that (note that Hitler very specifically told Mussolini not to do it and he did it anyway), since at the time Greece was an absolute mess which was arguably even worse prepared for war than Italy. Mussolini bears a huge part of the blame for this, as his ego repeatedly dragged italy into fights they could not win and got them slaughtered. Not to the level Luigi Cadorna got them slaughtered in WW1, I grant you, but that is a high bar to clear. Few commanders in all of history can compete with Luigi for throwing away the lives of their troops in suicidal offensives. The number of unforced errors Mussolini made during that campaign are worth noting. One of which was starting his offensive in October. October, for context, is the middle of Italy's harvest season. That means that Mussolini had the choice of either conscripting his workforce for his military campaign (thus dealing a significant economic blow as he would lose out on a major portion of the year's harvest due to lack of manpower) or sending the young men to work the fields (thus weakening his military due to loss of a major portion of his conscripts). Italy was on the offensive. They could have delayed until after the harvest to avoid making this choice. Greece was not in a position to attack them at the time. The Italian military was not inherently incompetent. even the much memed upon tankettes make sense when you consider that most of Italy's land boarders are through mountain passes where heavy tanks are completely impractical. However, their leadership in general and Mussolini in particular were either comically incompetent or grossly negligent, routinely neglecting logistics and morale and rendering their army inefficient from the top down.
@@FuelDropforthewin Essentially all of the Italian generals (except for a few like Giovanni Messe) were purely hired for ideological loyalty. Mussolini had essentially wanted to make a loyal army but it would have been too much of an investment on Italy's generally weak economy (that was still recovering from the great depression) to make a strong one (when there was no war in the near future). Similiar to other dictators, loyal generals tend to lie about the situation to make it seem better than it actually was. Mussolini probably didn't know the full extent of the situations with the Italian forces until they were essentially out of the war (not that anything would probably have been done at that point anyways.
the only major change would be the war lasting longer, no matter what japan would have to declare war on the west due to severe lack of resources and embargos
@@Nomsyyyy well, it seems you lack the imagination, without Japan triggering usa maybe they stayed out of it for years and that would give time to operation barbarossa without a powerful D day, and also Stalin having a 2 front wars in Siberia would not be fun for him
@@FelipeTempestad17 i think youre someone whose history knowledge only comes from hoi4, even before ww2 the second sino japanese war was going on. during the second sino japanese war several close calls came with american vessels shipping to china in turn already damaging relations. the reason japan struck in 1941 was due to a severe lack of rubber, steel and oil. without these they wouldnt win the second sino japanese war as it was in a stalemate. all that would happen would be the war lasting longer and maybe just maybe a victory in stalingrad due to having less resources to put against the germans. no matter what the allies wouldve went in on japan or vise versa. please learn your history * EDIT fixed a minor spelling mistake *
Literally nothing would change. The soviets always had a pretty large force on the Japanese border even at the worst points of Operation Barbarossa. The Japanese were always tied up in China and I don't think they could even break through the soviet line.
21:56 Italian tankettes were built to be effective fighting in harsh terrain like in Alps. You definitely won't make 20 ton tanks to fight in narrow Alpine passages.
What If the German officers had opposed the funny mustache man? (Like would they really bring back the democracy or return the Kaiser or even keep the power for themselves)
I'll expand on tis and ask "What if Spain joined the Axis and took control of Gibraltar?" Would that mean that the Siege of Malta and the african campaign would be easier for the Axis?
One thing you could`ve mentioned as well is that Mussolini was extremely convinced that the Italian Industry was better as it actually was. That was one reason why he did not really devalue the currency, as he said it "does not represent a strong Italy", unlike other countries, like France, after the Black Friday incidence. This hindered a strong industrial grow and thus, grow in military strength.
Whaf if King Gustav V of Sweden decided to make Sweden an absolute monarchy again, all because he wanted to return Sweden to the good old days of the reign of Charles XII at the start of the 18th century?
1:10 a slight Correction, Mussolini wanted to go to war, his government however did there best to ensure that the military was all teeth and no tail (it had a lot of combat stuff, but little support staff) so that He would be unable to drag Italy into a war. Then he Dragged Italy into the war on the promise that it would be over very quickly…..
Aka Italy abuses alliance with Germany to get its demands and then DOESN'T join the war until 1944 and even then only on Allied side? Because that's what a competent choice on italian part would be.
Probably yes. Moreover Mussolini himself from a side was enthusiastic of Hitler, but at the same time he was angry, frustrated and repressed by the fact that Germany became the leader in the alliance. Mussolini rised Hitler as dictator. He was the master... (that son of a b...) So many of his actions in war and some initiatives such like that in Greece was made because Mussolini wanted to show that we Italians wasn't the Germans lacchè (servitors). But of course by not spending for war nor preparing the FFAA for the fight, they condemned our forces to submit to foreign initiative. Because that's a fact: Fascist Italy never put a single cent on financing WW2 efforts. Not even half of a cent. And that's give you the picture of the "competency" of the fascists on this matters. So in the end Mussolini had a series of complains against Hitler and the Nazi and historically speaking he tried to sign an alliance, an anti-nazi alliance, with the Britts. But of course Churchill refused because accordingly to him, we "invaded something"... the Britt talked about we invaded something and that wasn't legal... I mean, the biggest colonial empire on the planet had the guts to blame us of taking back Albania, a country that WE made and inhabitated since the dawn of times. 😮💨 Britts... ☕
@@danielefabbro822 Churchill was in power only from the 10th of May onwards, the Italians joined the Battle of France around 2 weeks later. I doubt the entire talks broke down in 2 weeks. Also the British issues were more with Ethiopia which by that time was an established state. See, Britain established its empire mostly on territory without centralized ruler, or land that was already colonized as part of war spoils. The only exception on this rule that I can think of is the Mugal Empire of India. In general, however, the UK followed rules that made a *casus belli* necessary, even if they stretched that definition to its limits, and the Fascist government of Italy had no proper *casus belli* for their war against Ethiopia. Hence the reluctance to join Italy.
Putting these ideas out there, because I'd like to see the historical commentary take: - What if the Kodaha Faction succeeded in taking over the military and pulling the Emperor into more direct control? (Japan Monarchist/Non-Aligned path) - What if Poland, despite all odds, was able to get its act together and either resist the Germans or, perhaps, ally with them against the Soviets? (Poland cedes Danzig, goes fascist or something else entirely...having Wojtek lead the way would be extra hilarious) - What if Italy brings back the actual Roman Empire (not the 'Greater Italy' that this video did, but the actual Roman Empire. Extra points for it to be lead by the the Pope) - What if Germany somehow, through some wild twists of fate, somehow manages to bring back the Holy Roman Empire? (not sure if you've done this 'hidden' path yet for Germany or not)
This was a very good video Stakuyi, I have enjoyed your work before, but this one has to be my favorite one to date. I’ve pondered this question for a while.
I love your channel. I would like to see a run through with Italy joining the British. Not just the English, but the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish too.
@@spacemarine3482lmao The idea that the soviets would "stomp" the combined forces of the allies is a child's fantasy at best. The massive industrial base of the USA, as well as the existing navies of the Allies (including UK, US, captured japanese and German fleets) would make any Soviet attempt at naval superiority futile. The soviets would have to keep significant garrisons all over their shorelines to not risk an allied naval invasion, even if only temporary. Even being charitable and assuming a Soviet offensive could overrun the allied armies in mainland Europe, anything across the water would be a huge challenge, not to mention that the allies had a far superior Air force in comparison, meaning that traditional bombing campaigns would be on the Allies' favor, damaging Soviet industrial base and people's war support without much means of counter by the red air force. The only significant risk would be the development of Nuclear weapons by the soviets, but even then, in the early years of post WW2 they were tactical weapons rather than the Destructive MAD weapons they would become in later decades, meaning even if they managed to appropriate the materials and technology to develop nukes during a war against the allies, they still wouldn't be a master key to end the war.
@@joelfilho2625 Ya no while not nearly as vast the Red Airforce still would have been more than a match to disrupt bombings for at least a few years before attrition would take it's tool. As for the Allies they would be stuck trying to sell a war that no one would have wanted while the soviets just got another massive propaganda line of the western capitalists traitors are finally coming to destroy the revolution after an attempted genocide. Also the soviets don't need to worry to much about the naval situation considering their is no trade or objectives for them to purpose that require one other than an invasion of the UK which they would recognize as impossible. You also vastly overstate the capabilities of the Western armies the soviets had a father greater number of men and far more experienced formations. All the soviets need to do is take France and the war becomes unwinnable for the allies as the populations get tired of the war and unrest begins to build.
This operation didn't happen because England and US didn't have the means to make it happen. The plan was based on nuking 200 Soviet cities with 300 nuclear bombs. There was absolutely no way they could accommodate such a large scale nuclear operation. It's not as if they chose not to do it,they couldn't.
Stak you probably know better but if I'm remembering correctly, Italy not being ready is a massive understatement and the 1942 date might be incorrect. In William L. Schirer's Rise and Fall of the Third Reich (which I HIGHLY recommend everyone read) Schirer mentions a communique between von Ribbentrop and his Italian counterpart (who's name escapes me at the moment) where the Italians were very concerned about Germany's timeline because they estimated they'd be ready for war in 1952! I don't remember if von Ribbentrop ever mentioned this to Mr. Moustache but I do remember when reading that, that a lot of things started to make sense when it came to Italy's performance.
There is a passage that is interesting in this sense: the "molibdeno list" (it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_del_molibdeno unfortunately it's just in ita or Spanish), where italy was asking an incredible amount of materials to Germany in order to enter in the war with them. Of course it was an excuse to avoid the immediate entrance. When Italy entered Mussolini was actually convinced that the war was basically already won, and he was worried about entering to late to get something
Video 14 of asking stakuyi to play as the Katzenartig Imperium in equestria at war It is an april fools collaboration between the devs from EaW and the devs from the stellaris mod Gigastructural Engineering, the nation is the kingdom of abyssinia, you play as Kaiser Kattail, who has just arrived from another reality and attempts to take over the world utilizing his knowledge of mechanized warfare and megastructures to give his empire a gigantic edge. (for his focus tree to show up, you have to enable it at the game rules menu at the bottom)
8:06 Japanese and Italian tanks are actually pretty good against nations with no antitank weapons or no tanks at all. Early Japanese tanks actually performs well in China until Allied aids started coming in like Soviet tanks, British AT rifles, and US cannons. Though better tanks were planned for production (P40 and Chi-Nu), both nations lacked the industry to produce it in large enough quantity.
We need that possibility explored: how bad would Operation Barbarossa go for both the Germans and the Russians, with Germany being stretched even thinner, and Russia not having the Lend/Lease Act supporting them.
Amazing. The mixture of high quality gameplay and the added historical information felt like an alt-history-documentation but with really amazing animations to show the changes that would’ve occurred.
As Italy, after knocking out Ethiopia in mid-March, I like attacking Turkey to get their steel, and in turn Romania's oil. I've done it late 1936, with the war for Romania usually taking until 1938 to complete, but I never have to fight the Allies before the start of WW2. Getting troops onto the shore in Romania is difficult, so I sometimes wait until I form my own faction and have Bulgaria's help. Every time I try to get Russia's oil, I can never push them far enough and I get bogged down, and I'm terrible at navy stuff, so my fleet gets ravaged by the French and British. Still learning so many things about this game!
9:11 I usually just form IEA. It completes the mission, and if you refrain from calling them into wars, you don't have to waste time, effort, and resources defending them. Basically, you don't have to worry about anything that goes on in East Africa for the entire rest of the game, which is really handy.
definitely would like to see that final scenario you proposed as a future video. Basically carry the save game further and see what happens. Maybe not as Italy or you'd be bored but both USSR and Germany would be interesting to take on
In late 30's and all of 40's, Italy was in a dire situation economically, industrially and militarily. Whilst the whole world was mining/using more than 1.5 billion tons of coal per year, Italy only had 3m tons of coal to exctract per year. That goes for aluminium, chromium and petrolium. Anything thats actually needed to supply a war machine was lacking. Only their navy was somewhat ready for a war of this scale but even Regia Marina also lacked sufficient oil. Italy could never be ready for such a conflict with the lack of resıurces they had.
Just getting into these videos on your channel (found you through history shorts), and I absolutely love the premise of this series. If you haven't already (I'll look after commenting), please do make a video where a competent Italy defends Austria from German expansion. That's a fascinating what-if.
@@cpdangertv3868 Yep! the UK and France had no intention of actually living up to their geantees and threats, and where shocked when mustache man and fat boy called their bluff.
They basically did and got overthrown by their own people. The allies wouldn't be able to do anything and wouldn't even want to. One: appeasement was still the order of the day. And two: while the Austrian government was taken out by a coup it was very much one by popular support. When mustach man went into Austria, it was originally to set up a German friendly puppet state. However upon his motorcade being met with cheering Austrians welcoming him with tears in his eyes he was moved into annexing them outright. This was against the will of his advisors who were vehemently against outright annexation fearing that with it being directly prohibited by the treaty of Versailles would provoke an immediate war with the allies.
@@simonnachreiner8380 True, from what I remember the Germans wasn't really planning into fully annexing Austria, but it had really popular support from the Austrians
As an italian, i would say that there was also tactical incompetence. In North Africa were transported 100k men, without the logistics to support them. They were almost all captured. Africa theater needed smaller, faster forces. Trying to invade Greece from the mountains border with Albania, hoping that Greece just give up, was a disgrace.
America, who has told European powers in the Monroe doctrine to not create (any more) allies in South America and North America, would have probably immediately invaded Mexico or launched a coup. (Which is why it didn’t happen in rl)
One also has to remember that Italy was largely agrarian with its industrial base purely owned by either state-subsidized corporations or artisanal style workshops with a handful of specialists. Italy simply does not have many areas in the country to sustain the resource intense needs of industry despite its wealth of manpower among the Axis powers. Oh and Britain also preemptively blockaded their economy before the war to prevent imports of goods that could make that happen from annexed territories.
It is always fascinating and entertaining to see you follow these rabbit holes. Also: Is it just me, or does Bulgaria spike World Tension by mid-1938 seemingly out of nowhere?
These are definitely really good "what if's" for HOI4. It's all well and fun to do the funny things decisions let you do for all of the nations but I really liked this style where you're feeling out where they might have gone next in our world not just the videogame world because it's easy from some decision tree.
In my playthrough with italy it happened, Iran and turkey sided with the axis. In Africa i was able to land troops from the north and wiped out uk from egypt and the Suez channel (blew it just afterwards), then germany started an offensive in Russia from Poland, while me with turkey and Iran started an offensive from the South (more a position war just to distract troops while germany was advancing) in two years we conquered moscow, in three soviet union was no more. Very interesting run that was.
You forgot to talk about how the manufactory was very customized and hand created. They did not use assembly line processes. So everything took forever to was very expensive and in small quantities.
Simply by being prepared Italy became a serious powerhouse. What if the US abandoned neutrality in the late 30s? Like maybe caused by the Sino-Japanese War, the Spanish Civil War, or the Invasion of Poland.
I have a game idea! What if Yugoslavia fixed its problems before the war? It is best done through the disolusion and reunification path of the focus, where you can cheese it by letting the little puppets go down their own focuses for some time before reunification.
To pacify ethiopia regularly you need all the help you can get to generate enough compliance it's not an easy task, you need to put the resistance law on civilian administration, put anti-resistance spies in their territory, do the amhara rulers focus and also the emperor of ethiopia focus alongside developing ethiopia and clicking all the development decisions and only then you barely get above 60% but I have fun doing it and I hate having to deal with puppets in HOI4 so i always do it anyway xd
31:40 The US would immediately let the Pacific fall into the background. Now they clearly had their vision what Japan needed to be, that included protecting China and (more importantly) the East Indies. ... However, when Germany announces, that it now owns Canada and a beaten and broken Canadian government says: "It's okay, what other choice do we have?", The US declaration of war would not wait even 8 hours. They would immediately rush into Canada to prevent what absolutely happens every time I play Germany ;-) and German troops cross the Atlantic.
funny moustache man screws over funny hat man and the funny boat man didn't have to worry about either of those two only thing we were missing was the funny magic man
I would like to see what if Italy joined the allies. If you wanted I think that the Italo Balbo alt-fasc path is a better timeline for it. Italo Balbo was the guy who actually negotiated with the UK about Italy at least not joining the war. iirc his path is all about incredible compliance gain
I hate playing Italy. That said, your approach of describing historic events and alt history potentials was very compelling. I enjoyed this video so much that I may even try to play Italy again based on the understanding you’ve provided. Also, you’ve got a new subscriber. I look forward to more videos like this - less meme buttonology and more insightful background. I hope this style gains you many more subscribers. Well done!
loving the content gonna join your discord I would love to see you play millennium dawn as modern Poland and be a special forces and armor mercenary group who you use to gain money and power across the world
What if the republicans won the 1936 greek elections and brought back the mengali idea, establishing themselves as the beacon of democracy in the balkans.
I wonder what the world would look like if you could play WW1, WW2, and the years in between the two wars. Though that probably would be a huge undertaking.
I'd like to watch Italy in Allies scenario! Moreover, you can switch Mussolini to Dino Grandi, who's trying to improve relationship with Allies in his path
I realy apreciate not just sticking with the "HA HA Italy bad" meme but actualy pointing out that they were simply not ready for a war when they were draged into it.
@@baroku94Germany made all members of the axis sign the "pact of steel" essentially saying if anyone attacks or is attacked the other members must also declare war.
Hitler kept musolini under the impression that war wouldn't start till at least 1946-48.
He thought he had more time so was completely unready for war
I am familiar with Italy's performance during WW2. and WW1 for that matter.
It was honestly embarrassing. Yes they were *hopelessly* unprepared, but they did not let that stop them going on the offensive.
The fact that they had to get bailed out of the invasion of Greece that they started by Germany really showcases that (note that Hitler very specifically told Mussolini not to do it and he did it anyway), since at the time Greece was an absolute mess which was arguably even worse prepared for war than Italy.
Mussolini bears a huge part of the blame for this, as his ego repeatedly dragged italy into fights they could not win and got them slaughtered.
Not to the level Luigi Cadorna got them slaughtered in WW1, I grant you, but that is a high bar to clear. Few commanders in all of history can compete with Luigi for throwing away the lives of their troops in suicidal offensives.
The number of unforced errors Mussolini made during that campaign are worth noting. One of which was starting his offensive in October. October, for context, is the middle of Italy's harvest season. That means that Mussolini had the choice of either conscripting his workforce for his military campaign (thus dealing a significant economic blow as he would lose out on a major portion of the year's harvest due to lack of manpower) or sending the young men to work the fields (thus weakening his military due to loss of a major portion of his conscripts). Italy was on the offensive. They could have delayed until after the harvest to avoid making this choice. Greece was not in a position to attack them at the time.
The Italian military was not inherently incompetent. even the much memed upon tankettes make sense when you consider that most of Italy's land boarders are through mountain passes where heavy tanks are completely impractical. However, their leadership in general and Mussolini in particular were either comically incompetent or grossly negligent, routinely neglecting logistics and morale and rendering their army inefficient from the top down.
@@FuelDropforthewin Essentially all of the Italian generals (except for a few like Giovanni Messe) were purely hired for ideological loyalty. Mussolini had essentially wanted to make a loyal army but it would have been too much of an investment on Italy's generally weak economy (that was still recovering from the great depression) to make a strong one (when there was no war in the near future). Similiar to other dictators, loyal generals tend to lie about the situation to make it seem better than it actually was. Mussolini probably didn't know the full extent of the situations with the Italian forces until they were essentially out of the war (not that anything would probably have been done at that point anyways.
Sounds like something an Italian would say
Bro, le doppie dove le hai lasciate? Comunque non penso che dire che l'Italia era forte, sia poco controversiale oggi, capisci?
This is like doctor doofenschmirtz actually taking over the world and stopping Perry
Tri state area*
fuck it perry - we doin this
lmao
@@namethefifth7315 Beat me to it
Behold! My compitence-anator!!!
@@rustyblade-zr6ph he should have made that
What if japan didn't attack the USA and focus on helping on operation barbarossa from the other side
It probably depends on whether or not the Battles of Khalkhin Gol are mandatory or not.
the only major change would be the war lasting longer, no matter what japan would have to declare war on the west due to severe lack of resources and embargos
@@Nomsyyyy well, it seems you lack the imagination, without Japan triggering usa maybe they stayed out of it for years and that would give time to operation barbarossa without a powerful D day, and also Stalin having a 2 front wars in Siberia would not be fun for him
@@FelipeTempestad17 i think youre someone whose history knowledge only comes from hoi4, even before ww2 the second sino japanese war was going on. during the second sino japanese war several close calls came with american vessels shipping to china in turn already damaging relations. the reason japan struck in 1941 was due to a severe lack of rubber, steel and oil. without these they wouldnt win the second sino japanese war as it was in a stalemate. all that would happen would be the war lasting longer and maybe just maybe a victory in stalingrad due to having less resources to put against the germans. no matter what the allies wouldve went in on japan or vise versa. please learn your history * EDIT fixed a minor spelling mistake *
Literally nothing would change. The soviets always had a pretty large force on the Japanese border even at the worst points of Operation Barbarossa. The Japanese were always tied up in China and I don't think they could even break through the soviet line.
18:20 When he said "if you want to see what would happen, like this video", the like counter went up while I was watching it. Timing.
21:56 Italian tankettes were built to be effective fighting in harsh terrain like in Alps. You definitely won't make 20 ton tanks to fight in narrow Alpine passages.
I was thinking they might be used as cheap armored cars - mostly an inexpensive boot to use against demonstrators, but that makes more sense.
What If the German officers had opposed the funny mustache man?
(Like would they really bring back the democracy or return the Kaiser or even keep the power for themselves)
Interim military governments have a historical tendency to interpret the term "interim" very loosely.
Return of the German HRE would be baller!
@@AnimeFreak40K Especially if it means Kaiserin Victoria Louise...
namely because I've been asking for that one every time he does this
@@nightspawnson-of-luna4936
Oh, I have too! My 4th bullet/suggestion is exactly the HRE w/Kaiserin Victoria!
DNVP
What if Spain joined the axis?
Or; a better interesting option, what if the Republicans won the CW, Spanish Democracy survives, and then they join the Allies?
After the civil war, Spain had little to no industry, manpower and also quality equipment so it would likely be a speed bump for the allies
I'll expand on tis and ask "What if Spain joined the Axis and took control of Gibraltar?" Would that mean that the Siege of Malta and the african campaign would be easier for the Axis?
Well, spain was pretty weak after thier own little civil war...
They'd be crushed, as they were extremely weak after the civil war, which would open a new front for Germany and Italy.
One thing you could`ve mentioned as well is that Mussolini was extremely convinced that the Italian Industry was better as it actually was. That was one reason why he did not really devalue the currency, as he said it "does not represent a strong Italy", unlike other countries, like France, after the Black Friday incidence. This hindered a strong industrial grow and thus, grow in military strength.
There are more focuses to help pacify Ethiopia, like "topple Amhara rulers"
This series is abt historic realism, not gameplay
I love how you are explaining the historical context behind the situation!
i really like this video because you elaborate on the changes and differences from irl italy to your playthrough. nice vid man!
Difficulty: impossible
Whaf if King Gustav V of Sweden decided to make Sweden an absolute monarchy again, all because he wanted to return Sweden to the good old days of the reign of Charles XII at the start of the 18th century?
1:10 a slight Correction, Mussolini wanted to go to war, his government however did there best to ensure that the military was all teeth and no tail (it had a lot of combat stuff, but little support staff) so that He would be unable to drag Italy into a war. Then he Dragged Italy into the war on the promise that it would be over very quickly…..
All I know is that in any playthrough where I reenact the Rome Protocols, Germany can't even get through France.
Aka Italy abuses alliance with Germany to get its demands and then DOESN'T join the war until 1944 and even then only on Allied side? Because that's what a competent choice on italian part would be.
It would be Italy pulling an Italy from 1915 😂
Thank you! That myth needs to die.
@@TheSkyGuy77Bruh that’s not what happened in 1915,study more from books and less from memes
Probably yes. Moreover Mussolini himself from a side was enthusiastic of Hitler, but at the same time he was angry, frustrated and repressed by the fact that Germany became the leader in the alliance.
Mussolini rised Hitler as dictator. He was the master... (that son of a b...)
So many of his actions in war and some initiatives such like that in Greece was made because Mussolini wanted to show that we Italians wasn't the Germans lacchè (servitors).
But of course by not spending for war nor preparing the FFAA for the fight, they condemned our forces to submit to foreign initiative.
Because that's a fact: Fascist Italy never put a single cent on financing WW2 efforts. Not even half of a cent. And that's give you the picture of the "competency" of the fascists on this matters.
So in the end Mussolini had a series of complains against Hitler and the Nazi and historically speaking he tried to sign an alliance, an anti-nazi alliance, with the Britts.
But of course Churchill refused because accordingly to him, we "invaded something"... the Britt talked about we invaded something and that wasn't legal... I mean, the biggest colonial empire on the planet had the guts to blame us of taking back Albania, a country that WE made and inhabitated since the dawn of times. 😮💨 Britts... ☕
@@danielefabbro822 Churchill was in power only from the 10th of May onwards, the Italians joined the Battle of France around 2 weeks later. I doubt the entire talks broke down in 2 weeks.
Also the British issues were more with Ethiopia which by that time was an established state. See, Britain established its empire mostly on territory without centralized ruler, or land that was already colonized as part of war spoils. The only exception on this rule that I can think of is the Mugal Empire of India. In general, however, the UK followed rules that made a *casus belli* necessary, even if they stretched that definition to its limits, and the Fascist government of Italy had no proper *casus belli* for their war against Ethiopia. Hence the reluctance to join Italy.
I really like this story telling type playthrough keep up the good work
Putting these ideas out there, because I'd like to see the historical commentary take:
- What if the Kodaha Faction succeeded in taking over the military and pulling the Emperor into more direct control? (Japan Monarchist/Non-Aligned path)
- What if Poland, despite all odds, was able to get its act together and either resist the Germans or, perhaps, ally with them against the Soviets? (Poland cedes Danzig, goes fascist or something else entirely...having Wojtek lead the way would be extra hilarious)
- What if Italy brings back the actual Roman Empire (not the 'Greater Italy' that this video did, but the actual Roman Empire. Extra points for it to be lead by the the Pope)
- What if Germany somehow, through some wild twists of fate, somehow manages to bring back the Holy Roman Empire? (not sure if you've done this 'hidden' path yet for Germany or not)
This was a very good video Stakuyi, I have enjoyed your work before, but this one has to be my favorite one to date. I’ve pondered this question for a while.
Addis Ababa: Falls two months before real timeline
Game timeline: *goes fuckywucky*
Austria calls for aid!
...and Italy shall answer!
Wait, really?!?
Shockingly, yes.
Ah yes, a question i always wondered
Communist Cambodia playthrough hoi4
No please no
This is not the search bar xd
Monthly population -1000%
No
Take the khmer rouge pill
This what if series is actually so interesting, I would love to see more of it
I love your channel. I would like to see a run through with Italy joining the British. Not just the English, but the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish too.
Alternate history: Operation Unthinkable, aka an Allies-Comintern war after WW2
Allies get stomped by the soviets and can only win by dropping their limited number of nukes on military formations
@@spacemarine3482lmao
The idea that the soviets would "stomp" the combined forces of the allies is a child's fantasy at best.
The massive industrial base of the USA, as well as the existing navies of the Allies (including UK, US, captured japanese and German fleets) would make any Soviet attempt at naval superiority futile. The soviets would have to keep significant garrisons all over their shorelines to not risk an allied naval invasion, even if only temporary.
Even being charitable and assuming a Soviet offensive could overrun the allied armies in mainland Europe, anything across the water would be a huge challenge, not to mention that the allies had a far superior Air force in comparison, meaning that traditional bombing campaigns would be on the Allies' favor, damaging Soviet industrial base and people's war support without much means of counter by the red air force.
The only significant risk would be the development of Nuclear weapons by the soviets, but even then, in the early years of post WW2 they were tactical weapons rather than the Destructive MAD weapons they would become in later decades, meaning even if they managed to appropriate the materials and technology to develop nukes during a war against the allies, they still wouldn't be a master key to end the war.
@@joelfilho2625 Ya no while not nearly as vast the Red Airforce still would have been more than a match to disrupt bombings for at least a few years before attrition would take it's tool. As for the Allies they would be stuck trying to sell a war that no one would have wanted while the soviets just got another massive propaganda line of the western capitalists traitors are finally coming to destroy the revolution after an attempted genocide. Also the soviets don't need to worry to much about the naval situation considering their is no trade or objectives for them to purpose that require one other than an invasion of the UK which they would recognize as impossible. You also vastly overstate the capabilities of the Western armies the soviets had a father greater number of men and far more experienced formations. All the soviets need to do is take France and the war becomes unwinnable for the allies as the populations get tired of the war and unrest begins to build.
This operation didn't happen because England and US didn't have the means to make it happen. The plan was based on nuking 200 Soviet cities with 300 nuclear bombs. There was absolutely no way they could accommodate such a large scale nuclear operation. It's not as if they chose not to do it,they couldn't.
@@spacemarine3482 Soviets could barely handle Germany by themselves, let alone the US + UK.
@Stakuyi I have a new one for you:
What if Finland joined the Allies instead of doing the Continuation War? (Winter War will still occur)
I love these videos. They give interesting gameplay while also showing me things in history I missed.
Stak you probably know better but if I'm remembering correctly, Italy not being ready is a massive understatement and the 1942 date might be incorrect. In William L. Schirer's Rise and Fall of the Third Reich (which I HIGHLY recommend everyone read) Schirer mentions a communique between von Ribbentrop and his Italian counterpart (who's name escapes me at the moment) where the Italians were very concerned about Germany's timeline because they estimated they'd be ready for war in 1952! I don't remember if von Ribbentrop ever mentioned this to Mr. Moustache but I do remember when reading that, that a lot of things started to make sense when it came to Italy's performance.
Ribbentropp is by far a biased source, like almost all german generals post-war memoires.
There is a passage that is interesting in this sense: the "molibdeno list" (it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_del_molibdeno unfortunately it's just in ita or Spanish), where italy was asking an incredible amount of materials to Germany in order to enter in the war with them. Of course it was an excuse to avoid the immediate entrance. When Italy entered Mussolini was actually convinced that the war was basically already won, and he was worried about entering to late to get something
Pretty sure it was Galeazzo Ciano,I think Ribbentrop did a bet with him too about Poland not joining the Allies
Video 14 of asking stakuyi to play as the Katzenartig Imperium in equestria at war
It is an april fools collaboration between the devs from EaW and the devs from the stellaris mod Gigastructural Engineering, the nation is the kingdom of abyssinia, you play as Kaiser Kattail, who has just arrived from another reality and attempts to take over the world utilizing his knowledge of mechanized warfare and megastructures to give his empire a gigantic edge.
(for his focus tree to show up, you have to enable it at the game rules menu at the bottom)
Yes
8:06 Japanese and Italian tanks are actually pretty good against nations with no antitank weapons or no tanks at all. Early Japanese tanks actually performs well in China until Allied aids started coming in like Soviet tanks, British AT rifles, and US cannons. Though better tanks were planned for production (P40 and Chi-Nu), both nations lacked the industry to produce it in large enough quantity.
It might be hard but 'What if Spain never had a civil war.'
The fact this could've actually happened in our timeline is crazy. Italy had a lot of potential.
We need that possibility explored: how bad would Operation Barbarossa go for both the Germans and the Russians, with Germany being stretched even thinner, and Russia not having the Lend/Lease Act supporting them.
I love how you're describing everything you're doing, somehow the game sounds so much better thx to you
Amazing. The mixture of high quality gameplay and the added historical information felt like an alt-history-documentation but with really amazing animations to show the changes that would’ve occurred.
This is the first long form video of yours I've watched, really interesting video, learned a lot alongside some awesome HOI4 gameplay
As Italy, after knocking out Ethiopia in mid-March, I like attacking Turkey to get their steel, and in turn Romania's oil. I've done it late 1936, with the war for Romania usually taking until 1938 to complete, but I never have to fight the Allies before the start of WW2. Getting troops onto the shore in Romania is difficult, so I sometimes wait until I form my own faction and have Bulgaria's help.
Every time I try to get Russia's oil, I can never push them far enough and I get bogged down, and I'm terrible at navy stuff, so my fleet gets ravaged by the French and British. Still learning so many things about this game!
They were literally caught with their pants down when the war broke out
9:11 I usually just form IEA. It completes the mission, and if you refrain from calling them into wars, you don't have to waste time, effort, and resources defending them.
Basically, you don't have to worry about anything that goes on in East Africa for the entire rest of the game, which is really handy.
definitely would like to see that final scenario you proposed as a future video. Basically carry the save game further and see what happens. Maybe not as Italy or you'd be bored but both USSR and Germany would be interesting to take on
you are very knowledged on historical accuracy and it is much pleasure following you!
In late 30's and all of 40's, Italy was in a dire situation economically, industrially and militarily. Whilst the whole world was mining/using more than 1.5 billion tons of coal per year, Italy only had 3m tons of coal to exctract per year. That goes for aluminium, chromium and petrolium. Anything thats actually needed to supply a war machine was lacking. Only their navy was somewhat ready for a war of this scale but even Regia Marina also lacked sufficient oil. Italy could never be ready for such a conflict with the lack of resıurces they had.
Really loved how you did this one!
Just getting into these videos on your channel (found you through history shorts), and I absolutely love the premise of this series. If you haven't already (I'll look after commenting), please do make a video where a competent Italy defends Austria from German expansion. That's a fascinating what-if.
4:02 You were right the first time. I think around 3/4 of the Italian economy was in the public sector during Mussolini's reign
Wow this video was actually very well narrated and designed. Love it!
Loved the voice crack at 7:30
I'd love to see you explore the Italians being competent and standing up to the Germans, yah
0:26 speedrunners: october '36, take it or leave it
What if Austria Refused the german ultimatum and joined the Allies
The allies would abandon them
@@cpdangertv3868 Yep! the UK and France had no intention of actually living up to their geantees and threats, and where shocked when mustache man and fat boy called their bluff.
They basically did and got overthrown by their own people. The allies wouldn't be able to do anything and wouldn't even want to. One: appeasement was still the order of the day. And two: while the Austrian government was taken out by a coup it was very much one by popular support.
When mustach man went into Austria, it was originally to set up a German friendly puppet state. However upon his motorcade being met with cheering Austrians welcoming him with tears in his eyes he was moved into annexing them outright. This was against the will of his advisors who were vehemently against outright annexation fearing that with it being directly prohibited by the treaty of Versailles would provoke an immediate war with the allies.
@@simonnachreiner8380 True, from what I remember the Germans wasn't really planning into fully annexing Austria, but it had really popular support from the Austrians
As an italian, i would say that there was also tactical incompetence. In North Africa were transported 100k men, without the logistics to support them. They were almost all captured. Africa theater needed smaller, faster forces. Trying to invade Greece from the mountains border with Albania, hoping that Greece just give up, was a disgrace.
During the lockdown this was my favorite way to play. Also playing as Spain and joining the Axis.
Yessss, we want more of Stakuyi Caesar. I need to see you rebuild Rome in Crusader Kings next.
What if Mexico joined the Axis at the start of the war in Europe.
America, who has told European powers in the Monroe doctrine to not create (any more) allies in South America and North America, would have probably immediately invaded Mexico or launched a coup. (Which is why it didn’t happen in rl)
Mexico would occupy British Belize, leading to Winston Churchill spontaneously combusting and the UK surrenders to the Axis.
@@PersonOfEarth117ya obvi lol
One also has to remember that Italy was largely agrarian with its industrial base purely owned by either state-subsidized corporations or artisanal style workshops with a handful of specialists. Italy simply does not have many areas in the country to sustain the resource intense needs of industry despite its wealth of manpower among the Axis powers.
Oh and Britain also preemptively blockaded their economy before the war to prevent imports of goods that could make that happen from annexed territories.
It is always fascinating and entertaining to see you follow these rabbit holes. Also: Is it just me, or does Bulgaria spike World Tension by mid-1938 seemingly out of nowhere?
These are definitely really good "what if's" for HOI4. It's all well and fun to do the funny things decisions let you do for all of the nations but I really liked this style where you're feeling out where they might have gone next in our world not just the videogame world because it's easy from some decision tree.
What if Turkey was persuaded to picked a side (very early in the war)
In my playthrough with italy it happened, Iran and turkey sided with the axis. In Africa i was able to land troops from the north and wiped out uk from egypt and the Suez channel (blew it just afterwards), then germany started an offensive in Russia from Poland, while me with turkey and Iran started an offensive from the South (more a position war just to distract troops while germany was advancing) in two years we conquered moscow, in three soviet union was no more. Very interesting run that was.
Love these vids keep em coming!!!
it's actually so good to hear someone that actually knows how things have gone in our country back then
Thank you for doing this one, where we see where different decisions could have resulted rather than using exploits. : )
You forgot to talk about how the manufactory was very customized and hand created. They did not use assembly line processes. So everything took forever to was very expensive and in small quantities.
Simply by being prepared Italy became a serious powerhouse.
What if the US abandoned neutrality in the late 30s? Like maybe caused by the Sino-Japanese War, the Spanish Civil War, or the Invasion of Poland.
I have a game idea! What if Yugoslavia fixed its problems before the war? It is best done through the disolusion and reunification path of the focus, where you can cheese it by letting the little puppets go down their own focuses for some time before reunification.
New scenario: What if Sweden did something?
This is the most intelligent hoi4 player I ever saw
Very interesting alternate timeline. Thank You, that was fun. 💜
To pacify ethiopia regularly you need all the help you can get to generate enough compliance it's not an easy task, you need to put the resistance law on civilian administration, put anti-resistance spies in their territory, do the amhara rulers focus and also the emperor of ethiopia focus alongside developing ethiopia and clicking all the development decisions and only then you barely get above 60% but I have fun doing it and I hate having to deal with puppets in HOI4 so i always do it anyway xd
Supply Trucks will help with resistance faster. They are also fast to produce. Once its down you can switch it over back to horses.
I love this format. Great video!
It be great to see the alternative if Italy resisted Germany in Austria.
pov me watches stakuyi become mexican arms dealer
has to do work
few hours later goes back to video
sees new video
YIPPEEEEEEEEEEE
31:40 The US would immediately let the Pacific fall into the background. Now they clearly had their vision what Japan needed to be, that included protecting China and (more importantly) the East Indies. ... However, when Germany announces, that it now owns Canada and a beaten and broken Canadian government says: "It's okay, what other choice do we have?", The US declaration of war would not wait even 8 hours. They would immediately rush into Canada to prevent what absolutely happens every time I play Germany ;-) and German troops cross the Atlantic.
never did I expect to learn history from hoi4 beyond what country was what and where
I love this style of video. Please do more HOI4 alt-history lessons!
Dude I love this type of video. Doing shit ingame that realistically could have happened with competent leadership
Would have loved to see the end of AI Germany vs AI Soviet Union duking it out.
Great LP, great series, keep it up :)
This is a very interesting alternate history. Well done!
funny moustache man screws over funny hat man and the funny boat man didn't have to worry about either of those two only thing we were missing was the funny magic man
I would like to see what if Italy joined the allies.
If you wanted I think that the Italo Balbo alt-fasc path is a better timeline for it.
Italo Balbo was the guy who actually negotiated with the UK about Italy at least not joining the war. iirc his path is all about incredible compliance gain
Haven't watched it and already liked it cause I love these what ifs.
Great video it's like a documentary with HOI love it
Love this series
This dude makes also content while giving us history lessons I mean props dude
A beautiful timeline
What if France didn't appease (At Munich Conference)
`14:55 Are you willing to go into that alternate timeline?
Ah yes the resurgence of Pax Romana Invicta be like 🇮🇹🇲🇨🇸🇲🇻🇦 🗿👌😎👍:
I hate playing Italy. That said, your approach of describing historic events and alt history potentials was very compelling. I enjoyed this video so much that I may even try to play Italy again based on the understanding you’ve provided. Also, you’ve got a new subscriber. I look forward to more videos like this - less meme buttonology and more insightful background. I hope this style gains you many more subscribers. Well done!
why do you hate play Italy?
Let's see a part 2 including Barbarossa
loving the content gonna join your discord I would love to see you play millennium dawn as modern Poland and be a special forces and armor mercenary group who you use to gain money and power across the world
This is indeed fascinating. Great job. And damn, were we fucked if Italy was competent.
I absolutely LOVE this. Hoi4 plus an in depth history lesson? Sign me up!
Man I am really liking these videos
What if the republicans won the 1936 greek elections and brought back the mengali idea, establishing themselves as the beacon of democracy in the balkans.
New here randomly ended up watching the full vid. Great video
I wonder what the world would look like if you could play WW1, WW2, and the years in between the two wars. Though that probably would be a huge undertaking.
Australia: Millenium Dawn (with ADF equipment mod), would make me subscribe so hard my finger would go through my screen touch Mussolini's bald head.
I'd like to watch Italy in Allies scenario! Moreover, you can switch Mussolini to Dino Grandi, who's trying to improve relationship with Allies in his path
This was a brilliant video, so glad you picked that comment!