I'll stick to Jared's tests where he mounts all cameras side-by-side on a bar where they all see a very similar view of subject, background and lighting. Not 3 people holding cameras from a distance at different angles, as in the first test. You've lost your technical prowess, Tony. I also don't believe you even set these cameras up properly AS AN OWNER WOULD to get the most out of each system.
5:15 the touch scrubbing to quickly review photos in a burst exists on the Z9, you guys must have missed it. Take a burst , enter playback and then swipe left to right along the bottom of the screen
He’s looking for a camera that knows what to shoot before he knows what to shoot. Does what he wants it to do without any input. Recognizes whatever he needs whenever he needs it. All while standing in front of the camera while it follows him around with the flippy display so he can check focus.
He does seem to offer an opinion without really doing any homework. Taking a bird picture in the park with your white Gucci sneakers on is not wildlife photography.
The Throwups often miss details and then make some blanket statement about how “camera x can’t do y”. Worst reviewers with a huge following on UA-cam. I just unfollowed them. Every time I start watching one of their “reviews “ I’m blown away at how bad they are. It’s a shame, too. They weren’t half bad at making photography lessons and tutorials back in the day.
Nikon just released firmware to address the issue you were talking about your Z9 wasn’t able to focus on the headlights. Also other patches and fixes. I guess you’ll have to download the firmware and retest your Z9 again.
And even then, there's something called "exposure compensation". But with real time exposure in the viewfinder i would use manual exposure 99% of the time.
I'm confused to why you insist on forcing the Z9 to shoot in 30fps to compare ? It's a 20fps camera with reserve option of 30 in JPG. It's not like you force A1 and R3 to do 120fps 4k video and take screen grabs to compare against z9 120fps photos ...The correct thing would be to drop the other two down to 20fps to compare and take it from there.
@@flyingnematode depending on the upscaling rip you have. Dont think that would help. IF the sensors have same pixel density you could just crop down the other to match..
30 fps RAW is an advantage for Sony and Canon. You don't simply ignore that to create a "fair" comparison. But I think they should have shown how Nikon's 20 fps fairs against the 30 fps.
@@sloppy-1-1 nikon is also lossy compressed and canon is also 'compressed' in that it starts with 50% of the pixels. The selection of lenses make it sound like a big deal nearly all sony lenses do 30 fps the question can they really always do AF at that speed and thats kind of the same for all 3 brands if the glass can't move as fast you are kind of either shooting before it has focus (you can set this) or you wait until focus in confirmed.
@@sloppy-1-1 Sorry i always forget so the 2 new formats HI* where for the buffer depth. Its not even that easy to find online. So both are limited to 20 lossless. personally for burst (and to be fair for most other things) lossy raw is perfectly workable as most sony and i am sure nikon users will find out. The few usecases where it doesn't you are probably shooting single shot anyway. Its all kind of silly on how people want things to be compared instead of how they can use their camera the best. I need to keep telling sony users to try lossy-raw and compare themselves and i am sure nikon users will now have todo the same. The 'uncompressed raw always' crowed are just not making optimimal use of their cameras.
Who the hell needs 30fps I’ll take the higher resolution. Sony has both. Nikon colors are looking real good though. Hard choice here. Z9 is a nice piece.
@@TigaWould when I said hard choice I really didn’t mean for me personally just on the specs and performance. I actually think 30fps on a 45mp camera is crazy and not very practical will fill up cards in a couple minutes. I have a D500 and for sports it does an amazing job great AF just to point out you don’t need the latest and greatest. The R5 is my go to camera for work which is an event photographer. I prefer low weight and the R6 is also great. I also have Nikon Dslrs but when I wanted to get into mirrorless. I had to make a choice what system since I was starting from scratch and chose Canon for a few reasons. I’m not a big Sony fan to be honest although they are excellent cameras and get the job done.
I think Tony and Chelsea's review of these three is more generalist in its comparison, insomuch the review demonstrates capability across a few photographic fields, whereas Jared's concentrates on the camera body with the same lens type concentrating on purely focus acquisition. I wouldn't put one review above the other, here. The reviews centre around different photography needs. Both reviews, in my opinion, can add value to a consumer's purchasing knowledge.
Interesting to note that the Nikon is keeping up with the others for AF tracking using an adapted lens whereas the others had native lenses. Put the new 400mm 2.8 S line lens on it with its new faster and quieter magnetic AF system, and it'll jump to the front of the pack - has to since it is already as good with a slower adapted lens. Just drawing attention to the obvious here 🙂
In a much more clinical test (all cameras mounted close together on a bar) the Nikon did terrible with a subject running straight at the camera. The test done here (first test) was so flawed it cannot even be taken seriously! 3 people at completely different angles seeing different background and different light. That can have a huge impact on results.
@@cooloox I get 95% sharp photos shooting professional hockey players skating full speed ahead with Z9 but fro boy can’t get a slow run in focus. Yeah okay.
@@cooloox I'v seen many other similar tests where the Z9 does very well with subjects running straight at it, and know people very well that have the camera and also get excellent results with subjects approaching the camera in the real world. Again, even in this video, the Nikon kept up with the other systems using an adapted lens while they both had native glass - enough said. But just for fun, what is your favorite system between them because I can list problems with any of them - the truth is they are all good and some better than others depending on use case - not one of them is the absolute best at everything. That all said, Nikon is no longer "bad" because it has weaker AF. The Z9 is either as good, better in some scenarios, or slightly worse than the others, but they are all close enough now that it is the photographer not the camera that makes the difference here. So if you want to be a Nikon basher, you need to find a new reason to bash them - but good luck finding it because that was pretty much the one thing that the bashers had and it seems to be killing them that it is gone.
@wangpie92 80-95% is a pretty bad result in this day and age. I get that on my 5 year old D500 and D850. A $6000 flagship mirrorless camera should get 95-100% like the Sonys do, otherwise what's the point of upgrading?
I am so happy to see Z9 ,that is revolition camera without mechanical shutter and i can not to see rolling shutter and fantastic tracking with old lenses.....Well Done Nikon!
I’m glad you did this test, but 3 key points: 1. Testing RAW with JPEG is like comparing oranges with apples. You need to step the Canon and Sony down to 20fps. Most people don’t want more than 20fps, but if it is important, then the Z9 is ruled out automatically. But you need to compare like with like 2. The card you use in the Z9 and presumably the Canon and Sony will have a huge impact on how many shots you can fires off. There is a lot of discussion in FB groups amongst Z9 users 3. The F mount lenses work well adapted to Nikon mirrorless groups. But the native lenses are on another level. As you indicated, you need the soon to be launched 400 f2.8 with inbuilt TC to make this a fairer comparison. Until then, obviously you can only go off the F mount lens
So dumb down the other cameras for what they can do today and dumb up the nikon by using a not yet available lens. Don't you see there is no way to 'compare' like this whatever they pick someone will claim unfair... As a A1 owner i can see where at times reviewers (also tony) make mistakes or don't use some settings but at some point we have to wonder who to blame we want to see compares and a 'winner' and then we can complain about it... not that i am crying for them since they get their views so its all good but in this case don't see how you can get a 'always unbiased' compare best you can do is what they conclude here 'the nikon is good enough for these use cases now' (and as you point out can only get better with native glass for example).
@@scb2scb2 I think you missed my point. I said if someone needs 30fps, that rules the Z9 out. But if they don't, which most people don't, then you want to compare RAW with RAW at 20fps. The bigger issue is the memory cards used. Z9 users are finding a big difference depending on the card. I assume it is the same for Sony and Canon. Were they all using the same memory card cards? It could be that Sony and Canon had inferior memory cards for all we know. It's important to be clear that buffering results may be misleading if the very best memory cards are not being used. It's like racing cars. It doesn't matter how fast your car is if the tyres are inferior.
@@AntonisKorakakis Maybe maybe i am wrong but wasn't 20 fps also a lossy format on the Z9 just like the A1 ? Thats the point i guess too many details and exceptions to compare.
@@andrewmason8691 If you take the claim that most sports shooters shoot jpeg (pity they didn't add HIEF) why would 30fps on z9 be ruled out ? But i we compare 20 fps raw its also complicated in all testing i have seen the A1 buffer is a little deeper at 20fps but once it needs to start writing to disk its slower (makes sense) so again a test case with many but, if and how do we compare. This is why i feel in this case how T/C compared is not a bad one.. just use best you have and compare what you can do today. Or in this case with the correct tools (as cards) all 3 cameras provide buffers deeper then any normal people would need.
Your channel has turned into basically reviews and comparisons - a never-ending avalanche of specifications. The challenge and pleasure of photography, irrespective of equipment is just not there anymore. It's always high-end gear that I would suggest is unaffordable to many.
and we , poorer mortals, suffer with each of this top cameras which are sooo expensive ( adding a lens of course) . It would be nice to go back to photography and not only equipment! Good coment!
5.35 - Obviously you never took the time to see that you dont need to go through each photo 1 at a time and it doesn’t need a firmware update - you just swipe through and its fast..
All 3 shoot without blackout. the delay from real to evf as far as i know has not been tested much between the 3 cameras at least i have not seen it. It does have delay for sure (simpy by design) the question is how much faster is it with nikon's claim of a dual path from the sensor compared to the others and again not seen any milliseconds tests yet and how much it matters (like test on say passing birds).
With the Sony and canon just shoot 4k 120a and pick frames out of it in post. That is essentially what Nikon is doing. But it’s cluttering up the card with tens of thousands of images as well.
@@Eli-lb1lc 4K 120 does not oversample from 8K, which is 33 MP. But this is oversampled from 45.7MP, so the file has more details . Just so you know these are not the same .
Tony " Unbiassed Review " Chelsea, Nikon Z9 has similar performance to A1 in BIF. Tony " If nikon users upgrading this is a good option but if you investing on that, you should also consider the Sony A1 " ...you really redefine the word unbiassed. Lets just put asside the Video "Z9 is here and People are mad" .
Interestingly, DPReview just rated the Nikon Z9 #1 in AF over the Sony A1 and Canon R3 - they likewise rated it #1 for Video over the A1 and R3, and gave it a tie for 1st place in the general overall rating - tied with the Canon R3 and over the Sony A1 so thats interesting. They actually say that Nikon's AF is the best now - admittedly they say it is the best by the smallest of margins but still the best none the less. Guess Sony's dominance in AF has officially come to an end.
I would like to see more of a head-to-head comparison between the 3 outfits shooting birds especially BIF using the Atomos so that we can see how the focusing overlays perform in tracking.
@@livejames9374 So it impacts only Nikon does it? Jared's tests were far more reliable than Tony's. A person running towards 3 cameras mounted side-by-side on a bar, not 3 cameras in totally different positions seeing different angles, different backgrounds and different light. Forget who your favourite UA-camr is and think logically about the tests performed.
@@cooloox based on jared comparison, the Z9 did will against the af veterans sony and canon. Jared pointed out that the Z9 af catches up further than the canon and sony🤩sure, the z9 af stickeness is slighly lagging by a thin margin and this can be easily fix with a firmware upgrade.
@@cooloox we don’t know how much or if it impacts the others, we do know it impacts Nikon mirrorless cameras. I’m sure it does other just don’t know the extent. Jared’s test is valid but it had flaws too.
I'd never looked up how much the Sony glass cost and this typo nearly had me switching. I was thinking why have I never heard about this massive price difference before!?
I think there is a simple explanation as to why FPS drops with slower and slower shutter speeds. Basic arithmetic. With a 1/50 shutter speed, the time interval when the shutter is open is 20 mS. At 1/30, the time interval becomes roughly 33mS In other words, the shutter is taking longer than the frame rate setting.
Well, 33 ms still means 30 FPS; of course, that's a maximum value, impossible to achieve if the camera still has to focus, determine exposure, etc., so indeed the numbers must fall almost inevitably; but the actual differences from that maximum, and the FPS falling rates (slopes in the graph he showed), can give an idea of how much time each camera is taking (wasting or not) between exposures, and these times might be improved, as the differences between brands or cameras showed here :)
Yeah of course, and I mentioned the camera needs time to focus between shots. But the cameras performed different. And the a1 in particular jumped abruptly from 30 to 20 FPS instead of gradually adjusting the FPS while keeping the time between photos constant.
@wangpie92 Yea so it needs like 1/120th of a second between shots to calculate focus, which basically is what Tony is trying to say in the video. That short time becomes relevant when it happens 30 times a second.
3 amazing cameras that very few will be able to afford. But, hopefully the trickledown effect will benefit the masses in a couple of years. It's great for us consumers that this video is basically the definition of splitting hairs and almost unnecessary. Things have really come on so much. If you can't get a good shot with any of these cameras, at this point, the issue is not really the gear!
In my experience, 1/60 shutter speed is the slowest I would use for panning. I am not a panning master and would not be able to time the following of the object for an in-focus image. Also, isn’t there a limit to the number of photos shot if you are using a 1/10 shutter speed…like 10. 10 x 1/10 = 1 second. How much background blur do you really need? Just a thought.
Dude is blaming the camera because the person using it didn't know to dial down the exposure comp or under expose because the subject is blown out. Whoever did the After Effects files for this mislabeled a Sony 600F4 as $2800, but got the prices for the Canon and Nikon versions right. So the second time they showed it the price is accurate, so why not go back to the first AE file and correct it?
We all know how to use exposure compensation and I discussed it in the video. AE is an important factor for many pros and I can't simply not mention it.
R3 owner here - the camera performing well with vehicles is no surprise to me. With practice eye-controlled AF can be really helpful for picking subjects and the tracking will hold any subject especially when tweaking the stickier AF cases
I echo this as an r3 owner in wedding photography. Being able to have the focus on the bride and eye control on the groom during ceremony and and instant switching by looking is incredible. I barely use my r6 now
The Olympus/Panasonic feature of buffering shots and then saving them when you fully press the shutter is fantastic. I'm not sure why other companies don't add this.
Really hard to do with large files as it takes 100MB for 1 raw file. To buffer a lot would require a ton of memory it's easier to spew them to a fast card and delete the early ones later
I waited months for your review as you know already. And as you mentioned in your pre production video on the Nikon Z9 before you got it....everything turned out to be false.....its much better than that. For example you said it could not do 120 FPS with autofocus and probably be single point and locked exposure. All false now that you got it It can autofocus etc... at 120 FPS. You failed to mention any of its other abilities, not to mention the 8K video aspects....I’m expecting a lot more from you Tony regarding the Z9 and I am hoping this is not your Full review yet. Please make it an unbiased video this time, otherwise I will have to tell Chelsea on you.
I stopped expecting any real honesty from these guys. Clearly they are totally biased against Nikon as Im now wondering if they are getting some kind of funding or kick backs to bash Nikon in everyway possible. In theory, they are all very close, in fact close enough to now put them into a skilled photographer and that will ultimately be the deciding factor, not needless conjecture or ridiculous pretty girl running in weird patterns while the photogs take pictures from totally different angles.
Hmmm, I saw a previous video of yours where you said the Canon R5 seemed to get more autofocus hits than the a1? So are these results changing that overall perception or does this just apply to the R3...but has practically the same AF system as the R5? Thank you!
If I was going to go with one camera for the rest of my life, it would probably be a Nikon z9 if my selection was confined to full frame. That camera is the closest thing I have seen to a mature, do-it-all machine with beautiful lenses in the mirrorless space that I have ever seen, and I would be quite content with 45MP for resolution probably until 2065. It does have its drawbacks and quirks, but Sony has constantly presented itself as the "gotcha" series of cameras, and Canon needs to figure out how to do away with overheating (hint, make the bodies larger with more magnesium alloy and copper heatsinks) before I look at their mirrorless offerings. Nikon knocked this one out of the park! Thanks for another excellent video!
I'd go with the A1, at 20fps there is little to no compromise, you get 14bit raw, huge buffer with redundancy, 50 megapixel, incredible AF (AND a mechanical shutter if needed)
I terms of maturity, A1 seems to be the most mature camera. It is actually 5 gen. or 4+ gen mirrorless camera from Sony. And every generation brings something new to the table. The engineering experience gained with every new gen. is priceless. I suppose that it is a main reason that Sony is quite good with miniaturization and heat/energy management comparing to Canon/Nikon. That being said Nikon and Canon are doing pretty good and indeed Z9 is just an crazy amazing camera for very competitive prize! If not A1, I would prefer Z9 over R3. For now, I'm enjoying A9 which is, difficult to believe, 5-years old camera, which gives results comparable to 2021 R3 ;-) Ps. Actually A1 is not only mirrorless, it could consider as shutterless as well, as shutter is there mainly for 1/400 (1/500) flash sync (you can have 1/200 sync with electronic shutter). If you don't need such high shutter speeds you could use A1 without any mechanical mechanisms.
How can you compare a Sony 30 FPS with lossy compressed files against a Nikon NEF file !. I would take the Nikon any time of the week, and as to the canon not even able to compete at the start of the video due to some special settings that needed to be applied....well we dont know what happened there !
@@danielmunitzk4287 is sony shooting at 14 bit at 30fps, I don't think so. I think you missed out a bit point that Z9 doesn't have any 12 bit file format. Also Z9 raw files are much smaller than A1, atleast 4 times, doesn't kill hard drive space. These are important too.
@@nigelswen9227 a1 does "probably" 13bit in 30fps mode and 14bit for sure in 20fps mode compressed and uncompressed. The Nikon takes only compressed raw files, uncompressed files are not possible with the Z9. At the end of there day it doesn't matter as long you can take the pictures in the quality and speed you want. Btw...The Z9 is the only one that can do 4k 60fps. It's great that Nikon shooters got finally a prosumer cam for sports and wildlife. All three got they're pros and they're cons. I got the a1 since release early 2021. And I love it like it is. Maybe a flip screen would be nice... Had in the past a7 Ii, a7 III and as 7 Riv . The a1 is light-years ahead of them. But I wouldn't have a problem to use the Z9 instead of the a1. But I would never take an slow sensor R5 or a low res R3 combined with the crazy Canon lens prices. (There is so much misinformation and false statements in all these comments on UA-cam that I just wanted to clarify some things for in these cameras interested people.)
This feels like a BS review. I have the Z9 and I keep 90% + in focus of my dog that moves way faster than Chelsea. It's a matter of what focus combo you are using. Nikon is very clear about focus settings in the manual. I would never shoot in shutter priority in these situations. I would be manual or aperture priority. But I guess that's just me, and I am happy with the Z9. At the end of the day it's all a personal choice at this point.
what will i miss in 0.1 seconds? at 20 FPS is best that you need anymore a f/2.0 or better lens would be able to catch action , FPS or sharpness/ I will take Sharpness
Is that right at 7:30? Sony's FE 600 F4 is only $2800? I am going to sell everything and switch to Sony. this alone should compensate for the cost of switching over. :-)
So 8 mins in and you are criticising the Z9 for JPEG at 30fps for a SECOND time. Did you switch to highlight metering and do the other two even have highlight metering?
Kudos for attempting some comparisons between these three, but once and for always, stop trying to hand hold the Nikon 600mm f/4. You could have used the 500 PF if you feel you needed to hand hold. I can't take your wildlife comparisons between cameras seriously if you hand hold the Nikon with a lens that probably weighs twice as much as the others.
how are you supposed to get 30 shots a second, when your shutterspeed is set at 1/25 seconds (0,04 sec)? at 30 fps your longest shutterspeed can only be 0,033 sec. or am i wrong? so to get 30 shots you will need 1,2 seconds at 1/25 sec shutterspeed.
Obviously, right? Nobody expects the camera to get 30 FPS at 1/25. I discuss the need for the camera to spend some time focusing. But that time varies between cameras and it had a significant impact on the results.
I think the main reason is the megapixel difference, which might be favored by Chelsea and Tony based on their affinity for nature and bird-in-flight shooting where speed and the MPs really matter. I own the R3, R5 and R6 for event and theater performance shooting, and only pull out the R5 for large group portraits or cropping flexibility when needed. The R3’s 24MP has more than enough detail, even with significant crops, and the file sizes are very manageable when I am on a tight delivery timeframe. Last weekend I shot, culled and delivered 500 selects from over 6000 images within two hours. Doing so with 45-50MP images would have been driven me to madness! For my purposes the R3 is almost perfect (except for that DUMB SD slot - for $6k it should have been TWO CFexpress B slots, Canon!!)
Z9 -- Re-over exposure of faces when using face detection -- in menu setting b4 (Matrix Metering Face Detection) -- did you set this to ON or leave in its default OFF setting? ON enables the camera's exposure adjustment for the faces of human portrait subjects detected by the camera when Matrix Metering is selected. (page 613 of the Z9 reference manual)
This video seemed all about frame rates.. how is that the only important thing? looking for a reason to put the z9 down? Not unbiased at all. Much prefer dpreview.
For the 120fps workflow, I set up the A1 to record 4K/120 when in photo mode and quickly extract the frame of interest. You loose a bit of the top and bottom of the frame reducing it to 8MP but works easy and no clutter sorting from thousands of images
@@nigelswen9227 jpg 14bit? Are you sure? Pretty niche anyway, I do not see much of a difference for the occasional use where a low res compressed file is needed. I would have found it more useful if it was a short burst raw at full resolution. I rather shoot 30fps raw full res.
@@nigelswen9227 Where are you people getting that it's 14-bit? It's jpeg, the standard only does 8-bit colour and nowhere online says that it's 14-bit. I would gladly take a 120fps 4k 10-bit all-intra video over 120fps 8-bit jpegs.
For Nikon shooters yeah, but meaningless if you have Canon or Sony glass... it's not worth it to change your glass.... cost you loads, but gains you very little.
@@MattIrwinPhotography Im not sure what's hard to understand there. Canon and Sony both have a much broader lens selection than Nikon. Sony has third party support. Canon offers very innovative new lens designs. Nikon has a bunch of very overpriced f/1.8 primes, the worst 50 1.2 of the three, and the heaviest 70-200. Their lens line-up is very, very far behind the competition at this point in time. Not to mention that the only body that's worth the upgrade from the DSLR world from Nikon is the Z9. Canon and Sony have compelling offerings at much lower price points.
fellow photographers , quick question ...am I missing out on not owning a mirrorless? I currently have the Nikon D500 for wildlife photography and I really do love it, but I hear so many people rave about mirrorless
No you are not untill you shoot videos often, i have Nikon D700 + Z6 and still preffer D700 image its much sharper and cleaner to me. I may be buy D850 in future they are really workhorse and more reliable.
@@PunjabiGymBeats One of my photography buds recently switched from the D750 to the D850 and she said she actually regretted her decision because of the D850's low light performance
@@TonyAndChelsea that's what I was thinking as well. Purchasing a Z9 is completely out of the question for me because of the price so I'm looking at a potential new lens in the meantime
@@PunjabiGymBeats Agree completely - not to stray too far off the subject of this video, but I've been (and still am) a D700 user for awhile and absolutely love it. I bought a D850 a few months ago, and it just sits in a bag while I carry on with the D700.
I definitely think Nikon will be able to improve the AF on the Z9 to make up for any of the deficiencies. Just the fact Canon was so able to update the R5 AF etc since the Canons are all using the same processor.
@Photo Bunny Yes, that's great, they are actively getting it up to snuff! Even with the R5c coming, I think the z9 is likely better video camera, just because no external power required for 8kp60 and much larger battery overall. And hopefully more HEVC compression options for 8K to keep file sizes manageable. I don't want or need 2500mbps raw! But those who do, more power to them!
I have an R5. I noticed rolling shutter when shooting birds in electronic shutter as they perched on branches that were slowly bobbing up and down. You don't see it in an individual frame, but it's evident when you scrub through a sequence in Lightroom. I hope all three of these cameras really control rolling shutter as they advertise.
The electronic shutter mode in the R5 is a joke, its just there for marketing sake (just to put 20fps on the box). People only shoot at high fps for FAST MOVING SUBJECT and its completely useless in that scenario
@@JetBen555 I won't say completely useless, but it has its limitations. For me, the R5 is the best camera at its price point. For birds bouncing around or singing, for instance, 20 FPS is pretty good for capturing subtle movements. The weakness is if there's vertical motion.
I spent nearly an hour alone with a Z9 and 70-200 2.8 Z, 50 1.2 Z lenses with my son as a model running around and plenty of time to review the shots. I found the Z9 to be almost as good as my R5 in Eye AF accuracy. The problem for Nikon is that the R5 has been out for a year now and is 1700 dollars less. Also, why did Nikon strip down the bracketing options, which always used to be nearly unlimited? The Top line Nikons had the best bracketing of any brand, now, they have dumbed them down.
Do you get the impression that Tony doesn’t want to eat humble pie with his past Nikon predictions always stating that the Z 9 only does 20 frames per second. I always watched his blogs now I just can’t be bothered. So much of these tests do have user variables as already stated. At least they admit the Z 9 is part of the scene now.
What camera companies need to include in their firmware is burst mode awareness. So that it flags ask the photos in the last burst of photos and if you want to delete that entire burst do it in one click freeing up that range of photos you know we're garbage.
Tony, you sounds like Sony and Canon brand promoter, I don't think any new photographer will really get any help by watching this video. You can support any brand whatever you like or feel comfortable while shooting but don't push others to think your way. This is not at all comparison video , this is more like you insisting people to shift to Sony and Canon.
Yeh even putting aside the fact I also get the feeling that for some reason Tony seems to exhibit an anti-Nikon bias ( I had to laugh at how Chelsea seemed compelled to talk up Nikon after one of Tony’s dismissive Nikon comments) , the fact that the comparison has Nikon using adapted glass and the other 2 native glass kind of invalidates the whole testing methodology. And why do Sony shooters seem to get so defensive whenever Canon or Nikon products get close (or surpass) their baby’s capabilities? They’re all just tools guys!
These guys have been bashing Nikon for a few years already, at the same time praising even Canon's complete clunkers straight to heaven. The only logical conclusion is that their revenue stream makes them bias their videos like they do. The bashing has been getting more subtle as the critique grew, but it is still laughably obvious in the topics they choose for reviewing (hi FPS, my marginally important old friend, why are you here AGAIN?!), and in the dismissive tone and phrasing Tony uses as soon as he is talking about Nikon. And yes, he is way worse than Chelsea with this.
Goodness. You guys messed up exposure, come on. Did you accidentally add exposure compensation with the control wheel on the lens? I haven’t had any issues with exposure using 120fps Good review overall I can tell it took a lot of effort. Z9 and it seems R3 need some firmware updates, which will hopefully address the quirks and performance flaws.
Ridiculous, 3:18, clearly photographer error, totally overexposed. I’m afraid it’s even intentionally overexposed to discredit Nikon? That images you even can’t recover if it would be raw. Besides: 12 megapixel is sufficient for real world sports photojournalism. 15 years ago, 12 megapixel has been the resolution of flagship cameras.
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It might be a bit of a fringe use-case, but I'm interested in low-light performance, as I do night-club photography in dimly lit settings. High ISO with extreme white balance correction and high-motion scenes - that's my challenge.
Revisit the AE issues with blown highlights (on humans/wildlife) and compare the field tactics to overcome it compared to "chimping " w/ d500/850, etc.
Tony, you need to buy your beautiful bride a Z9 and the 400 2.8. Let her get to know the camera and then go get some real shots. See who comes back with the better shot and the most satisfying experience. (She is still a Nikon girl at ❤️)
At 8.20 I do prefer the Nikon images more than the oversharpened sony images. Is there a way to remove the oversharpening on the sony backed in sony A1 images ?
There's no sharpening "baked in", e.g. the DPR review's RAW test shots don't show any traces of sharpening. However, the Lightroom default sharpening levels (prescribed by Adobe's A1 camera profile) might be unusually high, possibly to match Sony's default OOC JPEG sharpening levels at default JPEG settings? You would remove that amount of sharpening by shifting the sharpening slider in Lightroom to the left, to your own sharpening taste, or down to zero.
Tony just doesn't know how to check his settings apparently. There is no sharpening baked into Sony RAW files, not even sure that would be possible without debayering first.
Hmmm unbiased review? A real comparison would be to set all three cameras to 20 fps RAW and see how they perform. You shot the Nikon at 11 megapixels and then complained that it has less detail than Sony, no kidding. Here's a sobering thought, only a sliver of people who buy these cameras will be wildlife photographers. Many more like wedding photographers, child and newborn photographers, and high-end fashion photographers will be buying these flagship cameras and they might have little need to shoot at more than 20 fps. Looking forward to your more comprehensive review of the z9 in the future though.
I can't fathom why it would be a fairer comparison to degrade the performance of the other cameras. Anyway the sports and Motorsports were all JPG 30 FPS on all the cameras.
@wangpie92 So you're saying it would only be fair if they dumbed down the Sony and Canon to the level of the Nikon, so the Nikon's weaknesses don't show up in the test results. Clearly you're not biased at all...
@wangpie92 No, you are gimping the more advanced cameras so that the weaknesses of the one from the company you like don't show as much. Lets just be honest here, if you wanted a camera that did 30fps it was a pretty big disappointment to hear that he Z9 was 10fps slower than Sony and Canon.
Nothing to do with thumbing down, It's called comparing apples to apples in real life situation. The Northrups chose to choose 120 fps jpgs something Nikon intended for a tiny tiny fraction of photographers who would even consider using this function (ie photojounalists), In the real world, few wedding photographers would be shooting at 30 fps - similar to the fact that few (wedding photographers and portrait photographers) would be shooting with a longer lens than 300mm, a 200mm lens is already pushing it. As for strength and weaknesses, all three cameras have them. Remember this review doesn't even include video capability, and I think that's where the Nikon z9 really shines.
@@youknowwho9247 if you are conducting a scientific test, the settings need to be the same. It is not about fair. It is about accurate. And if you are worried about fair, then to not have the exact same settings across all cameras, even including 'angle of attack' and light, make these test unfair.
Were there differences in the storage media used in each camera? The three cameras support storage media with different maximum read/write rates. That could account for some of the bottlenecks that you saw.
Will there be any difference with the new firmware upgrades from Nikon? (I like these kind of reviews for practical comperisation, thanks a lot for posting this on youtube!).
Hi Tony and Chelsea. Your reviews are always, something that I look forward to,seeing. This one is a little bit questionable to me!. Great runs Chelsea!! You should be playing pro ball, nice to see you having fun. Seriously though, I don’t think you’ve had the Z9 long enough, for this review. Customisation is key. Cards also used have a great impact on capture rates/performance. Let see it optimised, releasing the full Z9 potential. I’d like to think, this not a brand war, “mine is better than yours,” thing. I really wish that type of mentality would die!!!. I just want to see what the full potential is without limits. Remember, you are a great influence on how many people think about gear. Do not rush in! I feel that some things may have been over looked!!. Z9 reviewers paint a different picture, why. Please,please, please, find out what if anything can or should be considered to get more out of this beast of a camera and let us know. I look forward to the updated review along side others performance brands. Pro Camera’s, as I have experienced with the R3,,need to be setup correctly in order release it’s full potential.
Z9 with the 400 f2.8 and tc is the real deal. The sample images are mind blowing. But it costs a lot. Maybe worth renting it for important shoots. In the end, modern mirrorless cameras have arrived and 2021 will always be remembered for them. The future will be really good. I agree with the need to have intelligent sorting software to pick the best of the best shots.
Though the Z 400mm tc is “only” 1k more than Sony’s and Canon’s offering. And when you include the camera the Z9 + 400mm tc is still cheaper than the A1 + 400mm + tc (+ battery grip)
What was the problem you had with focusing the Canon on wildlife? Did the notes that you got from Canon fix the problem? What roughly were the notes from Canon? I own the R3 and I use it for wildlife, or rather I will. I haven’t pressed the shutter button yet. I’m thinking maybe…get rid of it. Get a second R5 instead.
The problem is subject acquisition... It regularly hunts instead of locking on. Canon's feedback didn't help with that. When it does lock on it's perfect.
@@TonyAndChelsea I have that with the R5 also ... but not wildlife, but windsurfers in a shore break. The 1D-XmkII is even better for this. If the focus is on, the images are stunning, but... happened me more then once that I lost the first part of the action, since the camera hunted a bit.. Also annoying, EVF, it has to 'start up', meaning, I can't see stuff in the beginning. With the old DSLR, you always knew where you pointed at, with EVF, not, which sometimes results in aiming on something the camera / lens cannot focus on. Is this btw, a real problem with the R3? I'm still waiting for the R3, pre-order, but no sign of getting it... while Canon already announced the R1 (and now the R5C)... I have the R5 already, barely use the 1D-XmkII nowadays...
I'll stick to Jared's tests where he mounts all cameras side-by-side on a bar where they all see a very similar view of subject, background and lighting. Not 3 people holding cameras from a distance at different angles, as in the first test. You've lost your technical prowess, Tony.
I also don't believe you even set these cameras up properly AS AN OWNER WOULD to get the most out of each system.
Agreed.
Well said
5:15 the touch scrubbing to quickly review photos in a burst exists on the Z9, you guys must have missed it. Take a burst , enter playback and then swipe left to right along the bottom of the screen
He’s looking for a camera that knows what to shoot before he knows what to shoot. Does what he wants it to do without any input. Recognizes whatever he needs whenever he needs it. All while standing in front of the camera while it follows him around with the flippy display so he can check focus.
@@readitoutloud That's because he's not a photographer, he's a tech geek.
He does seem to offer an opinion without really doing any homework. Taking a bird picture in the park with your white Gucci sneakers on is not wildlife photography.
The Throwups often miss details and then make some blanket statement about how “camera x can’t do y”. Worst reviewers with a huge following on UA-cam. I just unfollowed them. Every time I start watching one of their “reviews “ I’m blown away at how bad they are. It’s a shame, too. They weren’t half bad at making photography lessons and tutorials back in the day.
Entertainment value from the Northrups, but good value and advice from the comments section.
So the Nikon matched Sony with birds using an adapted lens? Wonder how things will be when they release a native version.
Nikon just released firmware to address the issue you were talking about your Z9 wasn’t able to focus on the headlights. Also other patches and fixes. I guess you’ll have to download the firmware and retest your Z9 again.
very interesting to see the Nikon Z9 with an adapted lens keep up with the sony A1 with a native lens - Impressive !
Unless you're counting shooting in raw files and how many shots are in focus lol! It seems like the Z9 is in 3rd in several categories to me.
On the exposure at 3:30, did you have the camera set to spot metering? If don't, then you told the camera to expose for the whole scene.
And even then, there's something called "exposure compensation".
But with real time exposure in the viewfinder i would use manual exposure 99% of the time.
I'm confused to why you insist on forcing the Z9 to shoot in 30fps to compare ? It's a 20fps camera with reserve option of 30 in JPG. It's not like you force A1 and R3 to do 120fps 4k video and take screen grabs to compare against z9 120fps photos ...The correct thing would be to drop the other two down to 20fps to compare and take it from there.
Next you will suggest they should compare them to a DX and shoot them all in APS-C mode.
Next, upscale r3 to 45 mp to compare image quality.
@@duncangroenewald No, yes. If the test was iso noise an upres would be natural
@@flyingnematode depending on the upscaling rip you have. Dont think that would help. IF the sensors have same pixel density you could just crop down the other to match..
I would think that instead of comparing raws to jpeg, one would instead set all 3 cameras to 20 fps and compare the raw images.
30 fps RAW is an advantage for Sony and Canon. You don't simply ignore that to create a "fair" comparison. But I think they should have shown how Nikon's 20 fps fairs against the 30 fps.
@@tksa497 only really for Canon, Sony is compressed Raw at 30fps, and also only with a selection of lenses.
@@sloppy-1-1 nikon is also lossy compressed and canon is also 'compressed' in that it starts with 50% of the pixels. The selection of lenses make it sound like a big deal nearly all sony lenses do 30 fps the question can they really always do AF at that speed and thats kind of the same for all 3 brands if the glass can't move as fast you are kind of either shooting before it has focus (you can set this) or you wait until focus in confirmed.
@@scb2scb2 no, nikon is lossless compressed at 20fps.
@@sloppy-1-1 Sorry i always forget so the 2 new formats HI* where for the buffer depth. Its not even that easy to find online. So both are limited to 20 lossless. personally for burst (and to be fair for most other things) lossy raw is perfectly workable as most sony and i am sure nikon users will find out. The few usecases where it doesn't you are probably shooting single shot anyway. Its all kind of silly on how people want things to be compared instead of how they can use their camera the best. I need to keep telling sony users to try lossy-raw and compare themselves and i am sure nikon users will now have todo the same. The 'uncompressed raw always' crowed are just not making optimimal use of their cameras.
Who the hell needs 30fps I’ll take the higher resolution. Sony has both. Nikon colors are looking real good though. Hard choice here. Z9 is a nice piece.
@@TigaWouldactually prefer Canon. R5 is a great option for sure.
@@TigaWould when I said hard choice I really didn’t mean for me personally just on the specs and performance. I actually think 30fps on a 45mp camera is crazy and not very practical will fill up cards in a couple minutes. I have a D500 and for sports it does an amazing job great AF just to point out you don’t need the latest and greatest. The R5 is my go to camera for work which is an event photographer. I prefer low weight and the R6 is also great. I also have Nikon Dslrs but when I wanted to get into mirrorless. I had to make a choice what system since I was starting from scratch and chose Canon for a few reasons. I’m not a big Sony fan to be honest although they are excellent cameras and get the job done.
I can't believe I'm writing this but Jared Polin actually did a much better job in comparing these 3 cameras.
Can’t agree more. This is really sub par review
I think Tony and Chelsea's review of these three is more generalist in its comparison, insomuch the review demonstrates capability across a few photographic fields, whereas Jared's concentrates on the camera body with the same lens type concentrating on purely focus acquisition. I wouldn't put one review above the other, here. The reviews centre around different photography needs. Both reviews, in my opinion, can add value to a consumer's purchasing knowledge.
Hell yes
This comment doesn't pass the sniff test
@@godsinbox well, your mom doesn't pass the sniff test either.
Interesting to note that the Nikon is keeping up with the others for AF tracking using an adapted lens whereas the others had native lenses. Put the new 400mm 2.8 S line lens on it with its new faster and quieter magnetic AF system, and it'll jump to the front of the pack - has to since it is already as good with a slower adapted lens. Just drawing attention to the obvious here 🙂
In a much more clinical test (all cameras mounted close together on a bar) the Nikon did terrible with a subject running straight at the camera. The test done here (first test) was so flawed it cannot even be taken seriously! 3 people at completely different angles seeing different background and different light. That can have a huge impact on results.
@@cooloox I get 95% sharp photos shooting professional hockey players skating full speed ahead with Z9 but fro boy can’t get a slow run in focus. Yeah okay.
@@cooloox I'v seen many other similar tests where the Z9 does very well with subjects running straight at it, and know people very well that have the camera and also get excellent results with subjects approaching the camera in the real world. Again, even in this video, the Nikon kept up with the other systems using an adapted lens while they both had native glass - enough said.
But just for fun, what is your favorite system between them because I can list problems with any of them - the truth is they are all good and some better than others depending on use case - not one of them is the absolute best at everything.
That all said, Nikon is no longer "bad" because it has weaker AF. The Z9 is either as good, better in some scenarios, or slightly worse than the others, but they are all close enough now that it is the photographer not the camera that makes the difference here. So if you want to be a Nikon basher, you need to find a new reason to bash them - but good luck finding it because that was pretty much the one thing that the bashers had and it seems to be killing them that it is gone.
@wangpie92 80-95% is a pretty bad result in this day and age. I get that on my 5 year old D500 and D850. A $6000 flagship mirrorless camera should get 95-100% like the Sonys do, otherwise what's the point of upgrading?
@@youknowwho9247 I hate to break it to you but no Sony or Canon is getting 95-100% on very challenging subjects. I also shoot Canon.
Problem with overexposed Chelsea face - manual p.613 b4 - Matrix Metering face Detection should be ON
Page six hundred and thirteen dear lord...
I am so happy to see Z9 ,that is revolition camera without mechanical shutter and i can not to see rolling shutter and fantastic tracking with old lenses.....Well Done Nikon!
Awful for anyone with Godox or other brand non Nikon flashes. Will get banding with only electronic shutter.
It still has a mechanical shutter i think?
@@Enonymouse_ No mechanical shutter.
I’m glad you did this test, but 3 key points:
1. Testing RAW with JPEG is like comparing oranges with apples. You need to step the Canon and Sony down to 20fps. Most people don’t want more than 20fps, but if it is important, then the Z9 is ruled out automatically. But you need to compare like with like
2. The card you use in the Z9 and presumably the Canon and Sony will have a huge impact on how many shots you can fires off. There is a lot of discussion in FB groups amongst Z9 users
3. The F mount lenses work well adapted to Nikon mirrorless groups. But the native lenses are on another level. As you indicated, you need the soon to be launched 400 f2.8 with inbuilt TC to make this a fairer comparison. Until then, obviously you can only go off the F mount lens
So dumb down the other cameras for what they can do today and dumb up the nikon by using a not yet available lens. Don't you see there is no way to 'compare' like this whatever they pick someone will claim unfair... As a A1 owner i can see where at times reviewers (also tony) make mistakes or don't use some settings but at some point we have to wonder who to blame we want to see compares and a 'winner' and then we can complain about it... not that i am crying for them since they get their views so its all good but in this case don't see how you can get a 'always unbiased' compare best you can do is what they conclude here 'the nikon is good enough for these use cases now' (and as you point out can only get better with native glass for example).
For lossless raw both the Z9 and the A1 are equal. 20fps.
@@scb2scb2 I think you missed my point. I said if someone needs 30fps, that rules the Z9 out. But if they don't, which most people don't, then you want to compare RAW with RAW at 20fps. The bigger issue is the memory cards used. Z9 users are finding a big difference depending on the card. I assume it is the same for Sony and Canon. Were they all using the same memory card cards? It could be that Sony and Canon had inferior memory cards for all we know.
It's important to be clear that buffering results may be misleading if the very best memory cards are not being used. It's like racing cars. It doesn't matter how fast your car is if the tyres are inferior.
@@AntonisKorakakis Maybe maybe i am wrong but wasn't 20 fps also a lossy format on the Z9 just like the A1 ? Thats the point i guess too many details and exceptions to compare.
@@andrewmason8691 If you take the claim that most sports shooters shoot jpeg (pity they didn't add HIEF) why would 30fps on z9 be ruled out ? But i we compare 20 fps raw its also complicated in all testing i have seen the A1 buffer is a little deeper at 20fps but once it needs to start writing to disk its slower (makes sense) so again a test case with many but, if and how do we compare. This is why i feel in this case how T/C compared is not a bad one.. just use best you have and compare what you can do today. Or in this case with the correct tools (as cards) all 3 cameras provide buffers deeper then any normal people would need.
Your channel has turned into basically reviews and comparisons - a never-ending avalanche of specifications. The challenge and pleasure of photography, irrespective of equipment is just not there anymore. It's always high-end gear that I would suggest is unaffordable to many.
and we , poorer mortals, suffer with each of this top cameras which are sooo expensive ( adding a lens of course) . It would be nice to go back to photography and not only equipment! Good coment!
Guess which content gets watched? You gonna write them a cheque for their bills?
5.35 - Obviously you never took the time to see that you dont need to go through each photo 1 at a time and it doesn’t need a firmware update - you just swipe through and its fast..
The Z9 without blackout and without EVF lag is definitely the winner.
All 3 shoot without blackout. the delay from real to evf as far as i know has not been tested much between the 3 cameras at least i have not seen it. It does have delay for sure (simpy by design) the question is how much faster is it with nikon's claim of a dual path from the sensor compared to the others and again not seen any milliseconds tests yet and how much it matters (like test on say passing birds).
Nikon Z9 - 3 mins - face and eye detection looked on at 120fps - WOW! I wish canon or Sony can do that.
With the Sony and canon just shoot 4k 120a and pick frames out of it in post. That is essentially what Nikon is doing. But it’s cluttering up the card with tens of thousands of images as well.
You can do that with any system. But that is 10 bit colour profile . Nikon is 14 Bit colour profile 11MP. Images and not 8 MP.
@@felixdamith1 lmao
@@Eli-lb1lc 4K 120 does not oversample from 8K, which is 33 MP. But this is oversampled from 45.7MP, so the file has more details . Just so you know these are not the same .
@@felixdamith1 , Sometimes users just want to say their brand better than the others...no technical understand of what other brands are doing .
Tony " Unbiassed Review " Chelsea, Nikon Z9 has similar performance to A1 in BIF. Tony " If nikon users upgrading this is a good option but if you investing on that, you should also consider the Sony A1 " ...you really redefine the word unbiassed. Lets just put asside the Video "Z9 is here and People are mad" .
Interestingly, DPReview just rated the Nikon Z9 #1 in AF over the Sony A1 and Canon R3 - they likewise rated it #1 for Video over the A1 and R3, and gave it a tie for 1st place in the general overall rating - tied with the Canon R3 and over the Sony A1 so thats interesting. They actually say that Nikon's AF is the best now - admittedly they say it is the best by the smallest of margins but still the best none the less. Guess Sony's dominance in AF has officially come to an end.
... unless you need a camera in the $2k or $3k range with reliable eye af.
@@youknowwho9247 Yeah, but Nikon will put this AF in all future products - it will be less than a year before it is available for $2k
I would like to see more of a head-to-head comparison between the 3 outfits shooting birds especially BIF using the Atomos so that we can see how the focusing overlays perform in tracking.
It is SO hard to record the screen with BIF because you can't use the viewfinder. Also using HDMI can negatively impact performance.
@@TonyAndChelsea yup let the fro know haha commenters have been trying to tell him but he’s in denial
@@livejames9374 So it impacts only Nikon does it? Jared's tests were far more reliable than Tony's. A person running towards 3 cameras mounted side-by-side on a bar, not 3 cameras in totally different positions seeing different angles, different backgrounds and different light. Forget who your favourite UA-camr is and think logically about the tests performed.
@@cooloox based on jared comparison, the Z9 did will against the af veterans sony and canon. Jared pointed out that the Z9 af catches up further than the canon and sony🤩sure, the z9 af stickeness is slighly lagging by a thin margin and this can be easily fix with a firmware upgrade.
@@cooloox we don’t know how much or if it impacts the others, we do know it impacts Nikon mirrorless cameras. I’m sure it does other just don’t know the extent. Jared’s test is valid but it had flaws too.
7:30 you've labelled the Sony FE 600mm f4 as being $2800 rather than $12800
Whoops
Bargain!
$12800...😂 bye.. too expensive for my part- time extracurricular activities 😊
And it also wasn't the Sony. It was actually the Canon version labeled as the Sony.
I'd never looked up how much the Sony glass cost and this typo nearly had me switching. I was thinking why have I never heard about this massive price difference before!?
Why not use heif / heic for Z9 high speed shots? You’d get better highlight recovery.
So why did you say the canon could do better with firmware update but not the others?
In the video you mentioned you had advice from Canon on settings - would have really liked to hear what the advice was and if it made an impact.
I think there is a simple explanation as to why FPS drops with slower and slower shutter speeds.
Basic arithmetic. With a 1/50 shutter speed, the time interval when the shutter is open is 20 mS. At 1/30, the time interval becomes roughly 33mS
In other words, the shutter is taking longer than the frame rate setting.
Well, 33 ms still means 30 FPS; of course, that's a maximum value, impossible to achieve if the camera still has to focus, determine exposure, etc., so indeed the numbers must fall almost inevitably; but the actual differences from that maximum, and the FPS falling rates (slopes in the graph he showed), can give an idea of how much time each camera is taking (wasting or not) between exposures, and these times might be improved, as the differences between brands or cameras showed here :)
Yeah of course, and I mentioned the camera needs time to focus between shots. But the cameras performed different. And the a1 in particular jumped abruptly from 30 to 20 FPS instead of gradually adjusting the FPS while keeping the time between photos constant.
@wangpie92 Spec sheet real world.
@TheSharperCoder Well of course, this is so obvious for 99% (or 100 %) of the viewers that it doesnt need to be pointed out explicitly.
@wangpie92 Yea so it needs like 1/120th of a second between shots to calculate focus, which basically is what Tony is trying to say in the video. That short time becomes relevant when it happens 30 times a second.
3 amazing cameras that very few will be able to afford. But, hopefully the trickledown effect will benefit the masses in a couple of years. It's great for us consumers that this video is basically the definition of splitting hairs and almost unnecessary. Things have really come on so much. If you can't get a good shot with any of these cameras, at this point, the issue is not really the gear!
Sony A1, EOS R3, Nikon Z9, etc. What is the next level/name/type of camera after this, what are they called?
In my experience, 1/60 shutter speed is the slowest I would use for panning. I am not a panning master and would not be able to time the following of the object for an in-focus image. Also, isn’t there a limit to the number of photos shot if you are using a 1/10 shutter speed…like 10. 10 x 1/10 = 1 second. How much background blur do you really need? Just a thought.
Dude is blaming the camera because the person using it didn't know to dial down the exposure comp or under expose because the subject is blown out.
Whoever did the After Effects files for this mislabeled a Sony 600F4 as $2800, but got the prices for the Canon and Nikon versions right. So the second time they showed it the price is accurate, so why not go back to the first AE file and correct it?
We all know how to use exposure compensation and I discussed it in the video. AE is an important factor for many pros and I can't simply not mention it.
R3 owner here - the camera performing well with vehicles is no surprise to me. With practice eye-controlled AF can be really helpful for picking subjects and the tracking will hold any subject especially when tweaking the stickier AF cases
I echo this as an r3 owner in wedding photography. Being able to have the focus on the bride and eye control on the groom during ceremony and and instant switching by looking is incredible. I barely use my r6 now
@@TheFedoraMedia the photographer was beginner, I never had a problem with canon r3,
The Olympus/Panasonic feature of buffering shots and then saving them when you fully press the shutter is fantastic. I'm not sure why other companies don't add this.
Fujifilm has it and it’s great for action.
@@PhotoBob Nice!
Canon m6 mk II has it in cropped 18mpx format as well.
Really hard to do with large files as it takes 100MB for 1 raw file. To buffer a lot would require a ton of memory it's easier to spew them to a fast card and delete the early ones later
No need here as buffer lag is nil.
Overexposing is the camera´s fault, really? Nice review...
I waited months for your review as you know already. And as you mentioned in your pre production video on the Nikon Z9 before you got it....everything turned out to be false.....its much better than that. For example you said it could not do 120 FPS with autofocus and probably be single point and locked exposure. All false now that you got it It can autofocus etc... at 120 FPS. You failed to mention any of its other abilities, not to mention the 8K video aspects....I’m expecting a lot more from you Tony regarding the Z9 and I am hoping this is not your Full review yet. Please make it an unbiased video this time, otherwise I will have to tell Chelsea on you.
I stopped expecting any real honesty from these guys. Clearly they are totally biased against Nikon as Im now wondering if they are getting some kind of funding or kick backs to bash Nikon in everyway possible. In theory, they are all very close, in fact close enough to now put them into a skilled photographer and that will ultimately be the deciding factor, not needless conjecture or ridiculous pretty girl running in weird patterns while the photogs take pictures from totally different angles.
Amen
Odd that you had to mention this is an unbiased review. After last Z9 faux review don't think you needed to use the unbiased there.
Hmmm, I saw a previous video of yours where you said the Canon R5 seemed to get more autofocus hits than the a1? So are these results changing that overall perception or does this just apply to the R3...but has practically the same AF system as the R5? Thank you!
That was with the old Sony 70-200. The updated lens is much faster.
@@TonyAndChelsea Oh okay, I thought it was with the 600mm lenses though since you were shooting wildlife.
If I was going to go with one camera for the rest of my life, it would probably be a Nikon z9 if my selection was confined to full frame. That camera is the closest thing I have seen to a mature, do-it-all machine with beautiful lenses in the mirrorless space that I have ever seen, and I would be quite content with 45MP for resolution probably until 2065. It does have its drawbacks and quirks, but Sony has constantly presented itself as the "gotcha" series of cameras, and Canon needs to figure out how to do away with overheating (hint, make the bodies larger with more magnesium alloy and copper heatsinks) before I look at their mirrorless offerings. Nikon knocked this one out of the park! Thanks for another excellent video!
Z9 autofocus is not best out of rest
I'd go with the A1, at 20fps there is little to no compromise, you get 14bit raw, huge buffer with redundancy, 50 megapixel, incredible AF (AND a mechanical shutter if needed)
Did you watch the same video as us? 😅
I terms of maturity, A1 seems to be the most mature camera. It is actually 5 gen. or 4+ gen mirrorless camera from Sony. And every generation brings something new to the table. The engineering experience gained with every new gen. is priceless. I suppose that it is a main reason that Sony is quite good with miniaturization and heat/energy management comparing to Canon/Nikon. That being said Nikon and Canon are doing pretty good and indeed Z9 is just an crazy amazing camera for very competitive prize! If not A1, I would prefer Z9 over R3. For now, I'm enjoying A9 which is, difficult to believe, 5-years old camera, which gives results comparable to 2021 R3 ;-)
Ps. Actually A1 is not only mirrorless, it could consider as shutterless as well, as shutter is there mainly for 1/400 (1/500) flash sync (you can have 1/200 sync with electronic shutter). If you don't need such high shutter speeds you could use A1 without any mechanical mechanisms.
The Pro’s who buy theses cameras are already heavily invested with their lenses and would not switch systems because the differences are too small.
How can you compare a Sony 30 FPS with lossy compressed files against a Nikon NEF file !. I would take the Nikon any time of the week, and as to the canon not even able to compete at the start of the video due to some special settings that needed to be applied....well we dont know what happened there !
Please educate yourself...
Sony 50mpx = 20fps lossless uncompressed / compressed raw
+ 30fps compressed raw
Nikon 45mpx = 20fps lossless raw +
30fps jpg
@@danielmunitzk4287 is sony shooting at 14 bit at 30fps, I don't think so. I think you missed out a bit point that Z9 doesn't have any 12 bit file format. Also Z9 raw files are much smaller than A1, atleast 4 times, doesn't kill hard drive space. These are important too.
@@nigelswen9227 a1 does "probably" 13bit in 30fps mode and 14bit for sure in 20fps mode compressed and uncompressed.
The Nikon takes only compressed raw files, uncompressed files are not possible with the Z9.
At the end of there day it doesn't matter as long you can take the pictures in the quality and speed you want.
Btw...The Z9 is the only one that can do 4k 60fps.
It's great that Nikon shooters got finally a prosumer cam for sports and wildlife.
All three got they're pros and they're cons.
I got the a1 since release early 2021.
And I love it like it is.
Maybe a flip screen would be nice...
Had in the past a7 Ii, a7 III and as 7 Riv .
The a1 is light-years ahead of them.
But I wouldn't have a problem to use the Z9 instead of the a1.
But I would never take an slow sensor R5 or a low res R3 combined with the crazy Canon lens prices.
(There is so much misinformation and false statements in all these comments on UA-cam that I just wanted to clarify some things for in these cameras interested people.)
If you went hunting for a bird you would not use a machine gun. Speed doesn't matter. Again Nikon bashing.
The kits are mislabeled at 7:30. Jon & Chelsea's kit are inverted.
This feels like a BS review. I have the Z9 and I keep 90% + in focus of my dog that moves way faster than Chelsea. It's a matter of what focus combo you are using. Nikon is very clear about focus settings in the manual. I would never shoot in shutter priority in these situations. I would be manual or aperture priority. But I guess that's just me, and I am happy with the Z9. At the end of the day it's all a personal choice at this point.
Same here
Shutter priority on the Nikon?! What? Why hobble the camera? And what memory card are you using?!!
I kinda wonder if the panning test was also impacted by the choice of a slower card.
7:32 the cost of Sony FE600F4 was wrongly typed?
what will i miss in 0.1 seconds? at 20 FPS is best that you need anymore a f/2.0 or better lens would be able to catch action , FPS or sharpness/ I will take Sharpness
Good one, 👍 BTW, how much do you get from canon and sony for using lens with adapter on Z9 other than S lens？
Is that right at 7:30? Sony's FE 600 F4 is only $2800? I am going to sell everything and switch to Sony. this alone should compensate for the cost of switching over. :-)
Remember when 11mpix was enough for a full page in the paper.
Remember when people were getting around on horseback?
@@youknowwho9247 don't bs respond. Even IPhone's 12mpix is plenty for big ass prints.
0:24 *Hey look that's Bill Pullman!*
So 8 mins in and you are criticising the Z9 for JPEG at 30fps for a SECOND time. Did you switch to highlight metering and do the other two even have highlight metering?
6:34 that kill my heart to se these camera just laying there
Always finding some problem with Nikon. Seems like canon guy never wants to appreciate Nikon when Sony is around and canon fails.
Kudos for attempting some comparisons between these three, but once and for always, stop trying to hand hold the Nikon 600mm f/4. You could have used the 500 PF if you feel you needed to hand hold. I can't take your wildlife comparisons between cameras seriously if you hand hold the Nikon with a lens that probably weighs twice as much as the others.
They did it on purpose
how are you supposed to get 30 shots a second, when your shutterspeed is set at 1/25 seconds (0,04 sec)? at 30 fps your longest shutterspeed can only be 0,033 sec. or am i wrong? so to get 30 shots you will need 1,2 seconds at 1/25 sec shutterspeed.
Obviously, right? Nobody expects the camera to get 30 FPS at 1/25. I discuss the need for the camera to spend some time focusing. But that time varies between cameras and it had a significant impact on the results.
@@TonyAndChelsea i see.
I wish A1 had pre-shot like the Fujifilm cameras have. Don't some of the MFT cameras also have that feature?
Yep it's called Pro capture on some Olympus models and works a treat.
Is this the only channel that has basically said the R3 isn’t good enough? Everyone else I’ve watched have been blown away by the R3.
I respect them for being honest
I think the main reason is the megapixel difference, which might be favored by Chelsea and Tony based on their affinity for nature and bird-in-flight shooting where speed and the MPs really matter. I own the R3, R5 and R6 for event and theater performance shooting, and only pull out the R5 for large group portraits or cropping flexibility when needed. The R3’s 24MP has more than enough detail, even with significant crops, and the file sizes are very manageable when I am on a tight delivery timeframe. Last weekend I shot, culled and delivered 500 selects from over 6000 images within two hours. Doing so with 45-50MP images would have been driven me to madness! For my purposes the R3 is almost perfect (except for that DUMB SD slot - for $6k it should have been TWO CFexpress B slots, Canon!!)
Z9 -- Re-over exposure of faces when using face detection -- in menu setting b4 (Matrix Metering Face Detection) -- did you set this to ON or leave in its default OFF setting?
ON enables the camera's exposure adjustment for the faces of human portrait subjects detected by the camera when Matrix Metering is selected. (page 613 of the Z9 reference manual)
This video seemed all about frame rates.. how is that the only important thing? looking for a reason to put the z9 down? Not unbiased at all. Much prefer dpreview.
Yeah it's just our first review and we tested AF and FPS. More reviews are coming soon.
How’s that canon r3 aka r6ii
You have two prices for the Sony FE 600 f4. At 7:30 you say $2800 and at 7:34 it is $12,800.
For the 120fps workflow, I set up the A1 to record 4K/120 when in photo mode and quickly extract the frame of interest. You loose a bit of the top and bottom of the frame reducing it to 8MP but works easy and no clutter sorting from thousands of images
you are getting 8MP file and not to forget 10 Bit colour images, not 14Bit. With Z9, you get 11MP and with 14 Bit colours.
@@nigelswen9227 jpg 14bit? Are you sure? Pretty niche anyway, I do not see much of a difference for the occasional use where a low res compressed file is needed. I would have found it more useful if it was a short burst raw at full resolution. I rather shoot 30fps raw full res.
The 11MP file is 14Bit .
@@nigelswen9227 Where are you people getting that it's 14-bit? It's jpeg, the standard only does 8-bit colour and nowhere online says that it's 14-bit. I would gladly take a 120fps 4k 10-bit all-intra video over 120fps 8-bit jpegs.
@@nigelswen9227 jpg are 8 bit.
You lied in your first line of the video?
Look at that Sony 600 f4 price.
Are you going to follow up on the Sony Xperia pro iwithi final firmware ?
Yes
Hi, if you had to review these 3 flagship cameras today, how would the ratings be different?
At 7:30, you reveal the price of each lens. I think you missed the price of the Sony 600mm F4 lens. It's not $2,800, more like $12,988.
In other words, the Nikon Z9 is the better bang for your buck at a much cheaper price compared to Canon and Sony 💪🏻
For Nikon shooters yeah, but meaningless if you have Canon or Sony glass... it's not worth it to change your glass.... cost you loads, but gains you very little.
The Z9 is a nice body. The issue is that Nikon can't compete in terms of mirrorless glass. I don't need overpriced, slow primes.
@@youknowwho9247The nikon Z glass is cheaper than canon and sony...just check prices dude ;)
@@youknowwho9247 What .... ???
@@MattIrwinPhotography Im not sure what's hard to understand there. Canon and Sony both have a much broader lens selection than Nikon. Sony has third party support. Canon offers very innovative new lens designs. Nikon has a bunch of very overpriced f/1.8 primes, the worst 50 1.2 of the three, and the heaviest 70-200. Their lens line-up is very, very far behind the competition at this point in time. Not to mention that the only body that's worth the upgrade from the DSLR world from Nikon is the Z9. Canon and Sony have compelling offerings at much lower price points.
Can you tell us how you fixed the issues with the canon R3 when shooting wildlife at the start of the video, or is it not as good at tracking birds ?
fellow photographers , quick question ...am I missing out on not owning a mirrorless? I currently have the Nikon D500 for wildlife photography and I really do love it, but I hear so many people rave about mirrorless
No you are not untill you shoot videos often, i have Nikon D700 + Z6 and still preffer D700 image its much sharper and cleaner to me. I may be buy D850 in future they are really workhorse and more reliable.
Nah the D500 is still the best for wildlife until you're ready to drop $5k+ for a Z9 or a1.
@@PunjabiGymBeats One of my photography buds recently switched from the D750 to the D850 and she said she actually regretted her decision because of the D850's low light performance
@@TonyAndChelsea that's what I was thinking as well. Purchasing a Z9 is completely out of the question for me because of the price so I'm looking at a potential new lens in the meantime
@@PunjabiGymBeats Agree completely - not to stray too far off the subject of this video, but I've been (and still am) a D700 user for awhile and absolutely love it. I bought a D850 a few months ago, and it just sits in a bag while I carry on with the D700.
8:29 is there banding in the z9 image or am I imagining that?
I was wondering the same...
I definitely think Nikon will be able to improve the AF on the Z9 to make up for any of the deficiencies. Just the fact Canon was so able to update the R5 AF etc since the Canons are all using the same processor.
@Photo Bunny Yes, that's great, they are actively getting it up to snuff! Even with the R5c coming, I think the z9 is likely better video camera, just because no external power required for 8kp60 and much larger battery overall. And hopefully more HEVC compression options for 8K to keep file sizes manageable. I don't want or need 2500mbps raw! But those who do, more power to them!
This was the most rushed review out there!
Did not even take monopod for heavy lenses.
Can y'all do a review for the canon rf 100-400 ?
It's a cheap and good lens for starters. Get it if you haven't tried any lens beyond 300mm
I have an R5. I noticed rolling shutter when shooting birds in electronic shutter as they perched on branches that were slowly bobbing up and down. You don't see it in an individual frame, but it's evident when you scrub through a sequence in Lightroom. I hope all three of these cameras really control rolling shutter as they advertise.
They're all stacked sensors, so they do.
The electronic shutter mode in the R5 is a joke, its just there for marketing sake (just to put 20fps on the box). People only shoot at high fps for FAST MOVING SUBJECT and its completely useless in that scenario
@@JetBen555 I won't say completely useless, but it has its limitations. For me, the R5 is the best camera at its price point. For birds bouncing around or singing, for instance, 20 FPS is pretty good for capturing subtle movements. The weakness is if there's vertical motion.
I spent nearly an hour alone with a Z9 and 70-200 2.8 Z, 50 1.2 Z lenses with my son as a model running around and plenty of time to review the shots. I found the Z9 to be almost as good as my R5 in Eye AF accuracy. The problem for Nikon is that the R5 has been out for a year now and is 1700 dollars less.
Also, why did Nikon strip down the bracketing options, which always used to be nearly unlimited?
The Top line Nikons had the best bracketing of any brand, now, they have dumbed them down.
Well apparently according to this channel the R3 is also almost as good as R5 😂
Do you get the impression that Tony doesn’t want to eat humble pie with his past Nikon predictions always stating that the Z 9 only does 20 frames per second. I always watched his blogs now I just can’t be bothered. So much of these tests do have user variables as already stated. At least they admit the Z 9 is part of the scene now.
What camera companies need to include in their firmware is burst mode awareness. So that it flags ask the photos in the last burst of photos and if you want to delete that entire burst do it in one click freeing up that range of photos you know we're garbage.
Sony does that already
Sony does that.
Excellent camera rig for the border control, does Chelsea have papers/greencard/j visa?
Tony, you sounds like Sony and Canon brand promoter, I don't think any new photographer will really get any help by watching this video. You can support any brand whatever you like or feel comfortable while shooting but don't push others to think your way. This is not at all comparison video , this is more like you insisting people to shift to Sony and Canon.
Any chance you could set up the R3 to take BIF properly and then gives us a review of what you find Tony... would be really helpful ... thank you.
Yeh even putting aside the fact I also get the feeling that for some reason Tony seems to exhibit an anti-Nikon bias ( I had to laugh at how Chelsea seemed compelled to talk up Nikon after one of Tony’s dismissive Nikon comments) , the fact that the comparison has Nikon using adapted glass and the other 2 native glass kind of invalidates the whole testing methodology. And why do Sony shooters seem to get so defensive whenever Canon or Nikon products get close (or surpass) their baby’s capabilities? They’re all just tools guys!
These guys have been bashing Nikon for a few years already, at the same time praising even Canon's complete clunkers straight to heaven. The only logical conclusion is that their revenue stream makes them bias their videos like they do. The bashing has been getting more subtle as the critique grew, but it is still laughably obvious in the topics they choose for reviewing (hi FPS, my marginally important old friend, why are you here AGAIN?!), and in the dismissive tone and phrasing Tony uses as soon as he is talking about Nikon. And yes, he is way worse than Chelsea with this.
And let’s not forget, according to him, Nikon was supposed to be out of business last year
Goodness. You guys messed up exposure, come on. Did you accidentally add exposure compensation with the control wheel on the lens? I haven’t had any issues with exposure using 120fps
Good review overall I can tell it took a lot of effort. Z9 and it seems R3 need some firmware updates, which will hopefully address the quirks and performance flaws.
EC was at 0.
@@TonyAndChelsea hmm 🤔 what metering mode?
Ridiculous, 3:18, clearly photographer error, totally overexposed. I’m afraid it’s even intentionally overexposed to discredit Nikon? That images you even can’t recover if it would be raw. Besides: 12 megapixel is sufficient for real world sports photojournalism. 15 years ago, 12 megapixel has been the resolution of flagship cameras.
What card were you using for each camera????
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE IN THE FULL REVIEW???
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Don't forget to pin this, it's currently buried most of the way down.
It might be a bit of a fringe use-case, but I'm interested in low-light performance, as I do night-club photography in dimly lit settings. High ISO with extreme white balance correction and high-motion scenes - that's my challenge.
Revisit the AE issues with blown highlights (on humans/wildlife) and compare the field tactics to overcome it compared to "chimping " w/ d500/850, etc.
I’d like to see video ISO up to 12,800 ISO. This is a good practical range.
Because Z9 just have elecronical shutter....more sport photography and how terrible is 12mp to compare r5 and a1 ....a more portrait photography!
Tony, you need to buy your beautiful bride a Z9 and the 400 2.8. Let her get to know the camera and then go get some real shots. See who comes back with the better shot and the most satisfying experience. (She is still a Nikon girl at ❤️)
KEH delivers to Brazil?
At 8.20 I do prefer the Nikon images more than the oversharpened sony images. Is there a way to remove the oversharpening on the sony backed in sony A1 images ?
There's no sharpening "baked in", e.g. the DPR review's RAW test shots don't show any traces of sharpening.
However, the Lightroom default sharpening levels (prescribed by Adobe's A1 camera profile) might be unusually high, possibly to match Sony's default OOC JPEG sharpening levels at default JPEG settings? You would remove that amount of sharpening by shifting the sharpening slider in Lightroom to the left, to your own sharpening taste, or down to zero.
Tony just doesn't know how to check his settings apparently. There is no sharpening baked into Sony RAW files, not even sure that would be possible without debayering first.
Should have shoot the Sony at 10 FPS/s mechanical and the Nikon Z9 to 10 or 12 FPS to get those slower shutter speeds for the motorsports part.
Hmmm unbiased review? A real comparison would be to set all three cameras to 20 fps RAW and see how they perform. You shot the Nikon at 11 megapixels and then complained that it has less detail than Sony, no kidding. Here's a sobering thought, only a sliver of people who buy these cameras will be wildlife photographers. Many more like wedding photographers, child and newborn photographers, and high-end fashion photographers will be buying these flagship cameras and they might have little need to shoot at more than 20 fps. Looking forward to your more comprehensive review of the z9 in the future though.
I can't fathom why it would be a fairer comparison to degrade the performance of the other cameras. Anyway the sports and Motorsports were all JPG 30 FPS on all the cameras.
@wangpie92 So you're saying it would only be fair if they dumbed down the Sony and Canon to the level of the Nikon, so the Nikon's weaknesses don't show up in the test results. Clearly you're not biased at all...
@wangpie92 No, you are gimping the more advanced cameras so that the weaknesses of the one from the company you like don't show as much. Lets just be honest here, if you wanted a camera that did 30fps it was a pretty big disappointment to hear that he Z9 was 10fps slower than Sony and Canon.
Nothing to do with thumbing down, It's called comparing apples to apples in real life situation. The Northrups chose to choose 120 fps jpgs something Nikon intended for a tiny tiny fraction of photographers who would even consider using this function (ie photojounalists), In the real world, few wedding photographers would be shooting at 30 fps - similar to the fact that few (wedding photographers and portrait photographers) would be shooting with a longer lens than 300mm, a 200mm lens is already pushing it. As for strength and weaknesses, all three cameras have them. Remember this review doesn't even include video capability, and I think that's where the Nikon z9 really shines.
@@youknowwho9247 if you are conducting a scientific test, the settings need to be the same. It is not about fair. It is about accurate. And if you are worried about fair, then to not have the exact same settings across all cameras, even including 'angle of attack' and light, make these test unfair.
Were there differences in the storage media used in each camera? The three cameras support storage media with different maximum read/write rates. That could account for some of the bottlenecks that you saw.
Buffering was not a factor (we shot JPG for everything but wildlife)
Why you need mannual expousure when you can use expousure compensation with auto expousure
Will there be any difference with the new firmware upgrades from Nikon? (I like these kind of reviews for practical comperisation, thanks a lot for posting this on youtube!).
Hi Tony and Chelsea. Your reviews are always, something that I look forward to,seeing. This one is a little bit questionable to me!.
Great runs Chelsea!! You should be playing pro ball, nice to see you having fun.
Seriously though, I don’t think you’ve had the Z9 long enough, for this review.
Customisation is key. Cards also used have a great impact on capture rates/performance.
Let see it optimised, releasing the full Z9 potential.
I’d like to think, this not a brand war, “mine is better than yours,” thing.
I really wish that type of mentality would die!!!.
I just want to see what the full potential is without limits.
Remember, you are a great influence on how many people think about gear.
Do not rush in! I feel that some things may have been over looked!!.
Z9 reviewers paint a different picture, why.
Please,please, please, find out what if anything can or should be considered to get more out of this beast of a camera and let us know.
I look forward to the updated review along side others performance brands.
Pro Camera’s, as I have experienced with the R3,,need to be setup correctly in order release it’s full potential.
" this unbiased review is brought to you by....." is ok but i would appreciate disclosures listed and let viewer decide where you are coming from.
Unbiased? No such thing. What you mean is non-sponsored
Watch the Hudsen Henry vids he knows how to use the Z9 camera
Its kind of cute to see her running around like that. These cameras are amazing but out of my price range unless I hit the lottery.
Omg i want more of this! can we get a video and studio comparison please?
video capability comparison would be good between these three including Canon R5C
Z9 with the 400 f2.8 and tc is the real deal. The sample images are mind blowing. But it costs a lot. Maybe worth renting it for important shoots. In the end, modern mirrorless cameras have arrived and 2021 will always be remembered for them. The future will be really good. I agree with the need to have intelligent sorting software to pick the best of the best shots.
Though the Z 400mm tc is “only” 1k more than Sony’s and Canon’s offering. And when you include the camera the Z9 + 400mm tc is still cheaper than the A1 + 400mm + tc (+ battery grip)
What was the problem you had with focusing the Canon on wildlife? Did the notes that you got from Canon fix the problem? What roughly were the notes from Canon? I own the R3 and I use it for wildlife, or rather I will. I haven’t pressed the shutter button yet. I’m thinking maybe…get rid of it. Get a second R5 instead.
The problem is subject acquisition... It regularly hunts instead of locking on. Canon's feedback didn't help with that.
When it does lock on it's perfect.
@@TonyAndChelsea I have that with the R5 also ... but not wildlife, but windsurfers in a shore break. The 1D-XmkII is even better for this. If the focus is on, the images are stunning, but... happened me more then once that I lost the first part of the action, since the camera hunted a bit.. Also annoying, EVF, it has to 'start up', meaning, I can't see stuff in the beginning. With the old DSLR, you always knew where you pointed at, with EVF, not, which sometimes results in aiming on something the camera / lens cannot focus on.
Is this btw, a real problem with the R3? I'm still waiting for the R3, pre-order, but no sign of getting it... while Canon already announced the R1 (and now the R5C)... I have the R5 already, barely use the 1D-XmkII nowadays...
You will get rid of a $6k - not yet used - camera because Tony has problems with it in a video? Wow!