I went to a boot camp, and they actually paid me to attend. The only two downsides were I had to work for their company for 4 years afterwards and it was the army. Don't do it.
Haha, I made a similar mistake. Only I joined the Army Reserve for eight years and ended up with virtually no training in a job I have absolutely no interest in...
I've gone to a 'part time' boot camp not even meant to give you a job. I was probably last in the pack of the class too. I struggled with the basics. Sat there looking clueless. It was demotivating. The bootcamp had no promises of finding a job or refunds after six months if you don't find anything. But i worked hard there, got an internship built experience and have been doing software for almost three years now. It wasn't the bootcamp that got me the job though. It was learning how to learn. If I can do it, anyone else can!
I also did something similar to a bootcamp (part time for one year) and am now a software engineer at Pinterest. I've been here two years. Best decision ever!
I went to Wyncode in Miami about a year and a half ago and definitely the best decision of my career life. Took me 3 months, 177 job applications, and 3 more apps after completing the program to get my first QA role. Still 100% worth it. But not a hard comparison between that or going back to the shitty $10 an hour manual labor jobs I was doing before... After a month being there putting in a few extra hours after work and showing my portfolio to a few people, I got another offer within the company for both a Software and DevOps Engineer role in the same day. The major take away from boot camps is really learning how to learn and not giving up. Lol funny how the most cliche advice is usually the truest but it's always easier said than done you feels me. Some solid advice I always like to recite is the question "If you knew youd make it in 5-10 years would this current stress still be stressful?" You can do it, proper actions yield desired results. If not, keep trying or switch up the plan fam. Either way, you still got this
Killed it per usual! Congrats on getting sponsored as well! FWIW, I have a family member who went to flatiron and was able to secure a job only 2 months later. Definitely a bootcamp supporter!
I'm currently in a coding bootcamp in Hawai'i called DevLeague. The bootcamp has several different courses, and the one I'm taking is the Cyber Security Professional as part-time. I'm about half-way through the class, and it has been incredible. Been learning a lot about networks, reconnaissance, reverse engineering, threats and vulnerabilities, etc.. What I like most about the bootcamp is the hands-on practice. There's a few times throughout the week we have lecture, but most of the time we're working on labs, projects, exercises, and capture-the-flag. I'd say the most difficult part is having to balance class with my full-time job and life. We do have assignments outside of class, and it can be overwhelming. But I still enjoy class no matter what because I want to have a career in tech and I have a passion for it.
I think this comment section will be split between people who argue that cs degree is a better option and people who think doing a bootcamp is good enough as long as you get a job. Either way you need to learn a lot to become an cs engineer regardless of which way you go! I don't think people who do a bootcamp get it any easier. This is a personal choice. I'm glad this alternative exists, even though I go to college myself.
Hello Mayuko! Love your videos and keep up the awesome work! I recently just finished a 'part-time' bootcamp with Trilogy Education associated with UCSD Extension. It was very challenging because they go over a wide variety of technologies, practices, and other skills quickly over a short period of time. I'm still in the process of finding a job and beefing up my coding skills. One useful thing that I found is going to Meet-Ups related to programming. It's helpful on learning new things happening in the industry, practicing with the basics, and networking with people working in the industry!
I have seen my friends use bootcamps as a hail mary pass or last resort career change because they just did.. not... love their job. They were working rigorous and odd hours in accounting, analyst work that lead in low direction or sales that could get repetitive. Bootcamps are a great way to get your foot in the door, but the most important thing I don't see is how they match your passion to a true career path. The worst part is being paired with debt + (I've seen up to a year and a half) of soul searching and not being formally trained to nail the interview process or have mediocre / incomplete showcase projects to sell. It's emotionally draining. So I definitely challenge people that enter these programs to really understand what they are devoting their next years (or their future lives) to. You can boot camp to be a PM, a product / ux / ui designer, a marketer.. any field. Just make sure you identify what you truly work hardest in and love.
It's very interesting topic. Here, in Poland where I live, bootcamp aren't popular at all and probably won't be any time soon. There is one huge reason for that: university education is free in here (there are some private, paid ones as well but in most cases they are worse than public ones). Coding bootcamps on the other hand cost quite a lot. I've found some random one really quick. It costs about as much as I earn in 4 months as a junior java dev and it is 360h long. Of course it allows you to gain necessary knowledge but I'm not sure if having no degree won't block some career paths tho.
Hi amongalen, i'm currently a foreign student in Java Development in Poland, i will end my studies next year and i have tons of questions about Junior Java Dev in Poland. Would you like to help me answering some of my question and worries ? Thank you very much :)
What speaking language do you use daily in your job ? English or Polish because I saw a lot of job offers which says advanced english required but I am always wondering which language do they speak in the company. And did you manage to find a junior java job easily ?
In the company I work in we use Polish only but it's purely Polish company that focuses on Polish market. If I recall correctly the didn't require English at all. However, it really varies from company to company. I remember an interview in one company that was entirely in English. I'm pretty sure they use it on a daily basis. And then there are international companies like Sabre and such that most likely use English as well. I'd say it's always a good idea to send an email and ask. When it comes to the other question: I have to admit it took me quite a lot of time to find a job, 4 or 5 months. However, it really depends on your knowledge and experience. Most companies look for people that know some kind of framework like Angular, Hibernate or Spring. I know neither of those. I had very little previous experience, just a 3month intern and thats it. And then there's Java specific knowledge which in most cases you won't learn on the university. The most common questions are regarding collections (differences; why use one over the other; computational complexity of different actions etc), exceptions, threads (2 ways of creating them, why use one over the other), SOLID, abstract class vs interface etc. I've recently started reading Effective Java, 3rd Edition by Joshua Bloch. It's a great book, I highly recommend it. It's even updated to Java 9! If you can it might be a good idea to look for an internship before finishing ur studies. Many companies offer an job after finishing the intern. Very often it is possible to do it half-time (like 20h a week, you come every second day or something).
🙋🏻♂️ self taught and continually self teaching. Didn’t have the opportunity to go to college and parents never had the $$. Got married, kids came along and bootcamp was an option for me but I wasn’t making enough money to cover the costs. 2 years later after self teaching I was offered a job as a Software Dev making 3x the money I was making. Thanks for this video.
I went to a bootcamp in Canada. I was one of the bottom in the class when it came to backend programming (if not dead last). I was however, about 3rd or 4th rank on the overall frontend (out of 12 in our cohort) and maybe 1st or 2nd rank in styling. I made a portfolio page, and 3 freelance pages after we had completed our training. After that, I applied to a job and was hired 2 months after completion. It is well worth it, in my opinion. Even if you take 1 year in finding work, you can still train yourself until then. Compared to a 2 or 4 year program in college, you would still be hired before they finish, with a lower level of debt upon completion.
I live in Vancouver, Canada and I went to a local coding bootcamp here called CodeCore. I think bootcamps are very fair to the student: what you get out of it is what you put into it. The job searching process afterwards is really just a numbers game. It's all down to how hard you want to push yourself not only during the bootcamp but also job searching afterwards. Personally it took me 2.5 months to land my first job as a software engineer.
"No one is formally teaching you these things even in college" LMAO. I'm here mostly because they aren't teaching me crap in university. almost at the end of 2nd year and all i really know is how to make a linked list in Java and a alittle bit of introduction to C. Everything else I know is what i've been working on myself. wasting money doing a bunch of other subjects that isn't totally relevant to me(bio, environmental studies, etc). wasting me and my parent's money here tbh.
Oh wow this was 2 years ago lol. Update: graduated uni in November working as a devsecops, making websites on the side and just built a computer to get into some gameplay engineering and video production. Almost failed university cause was focusing on improving my cyber security and programming knowledge. But it turned out great for me once I stopped depending on uni to teach me things :D
@aena mustafa from my experience it's good to have the university certificate which is the bachelor's or whatever.Yes you will be wasting around 3-4 years of your life but it can be worth it if you choose to go with uni especially with meeting people who can make your life much easier when it's time to go into the working world, I will not speak for boot camp since I have never attended one. The one biggest advise imma give you. Out side of the classroom. Teach yourself! Practice! And don't be afraid to fail. and of course when developing keep OWASP Top 10 in mind
wtf are you majored in? there's no way you're majored in computer science/software engineering and they're having you take enviromental studies... there's just no fucking way.
I went to Code Fellows in Seattle and it was a great experience. I can agree that finding the first job is difficult. I am going through that process right now. You are going up against applicants with computer science degrees so networking is basically the only way to stand out in the crowd. If I had to do it all over again I would have gone to my local community college that offers an IT focused bachelors degree that is basically their version of a coding boot camp, but you will at least have the bachelors degree to show for it instead of a certificate. Check your area for similar programs.
I worked as a recruiter for multiple tech startups and from my experience, coding bootcamps are not a good way to build a long-term career. For almost all entry-level positions we were inundated with hundreds and sometimes thousands of job applications most of which were from bootcamps. The vast majority of "graduates" didn't know really basic stuff or if they did know how to solve a problem they didn't know the correct terminology to accurately describe what they were doing. Communication is a huge part of working on any team both front and back end. That said, none of my bosses ever even considered a single bootcamp applicant for a back end role because they simply didn't have the CS foundation for real problem solving. Most if not all bootcamps are designed to teach you about really basic stuff on all the "hot" languages like ruby on rails but it's really shallow knowledge. Graduates rarely had any useful experience other than maybe designing a really simple template website or coding an 8 bit game like snake. I'm not saying we never hired a bootcamp graduate. I remember hiring maybe two or three bootcamp graduates but they were for front end positions so UI stuff, not super CS heavy. The things all those graduates had in common was that they had actual practical experience. They were mainly self taught coders who took bootcamp more for the connections than the lessons or someone with a CS degree from a decade ago that just needed to get up to date. They were already way ahead of the regular bootcamp curriculum. But we'd almost always hire the fresh grad with an actual CS degree than anyone from a bootcamp even if they had some jobs under their belt. The problem comes down to a good foundation. If you were a really fast study and top of the bootcamp class we could ask you to do something like put in a module somewhere. But if we had a problem and you had to come up with your own solution, nobody ever knew how because they didn't have the foundation that CS degrees usually give. There's no comparison to what you'd learn in a few months VS four years. So I can't endorse bootcamps unless you're a self taught coder who's been eating breathing code since they were 14 and just needs connections or an older coder who's been out of the game for a while OR you're just a prodigy that needs a less expensive structured environment.
I get what you're saying but remember boot camp training takes like 3-6 months, college degrees can take 4 years. That gives boot camp graduates like 3 years to get real job experience where as a college graduate would most likely still be looking for his/her first job. Not to mention, CS degrees at most colleges just arent that good at teaching students modern ways to build products because technology moves so fast. So more often than not its up to the student to teach them self anyways, which isn't a bad skill to learn, but imagine paying ten thousands of dollars plus interest to teach yourself a skill that you can learn for free. Not to mention all the time you waste. Its just a bad deal. I have a degree but if I could go back I would definitely look into a boot camp. If boot camp education replaces colleges for tech in the future I wouldn't be surprised.
im a newbie software engineer and just wanna say thanks to all programmer youtuber whos making the tutorial and coding related video and posted it on youtube. my parents cant afford me to get me into college but im grateful youtube is like a college for me thanks !
I'm currently going to thinkful's bootcamp and loving it! It's very difficult but very rewarding. It's a remote bootcamp that is 5 months long and pretty expensive. Thinkful recently acquired bloc and I have to say the support team is great to have. I'm on the west coast but since its remote, its available nationwide.
I did a coding boot camp, overall good experience. I landed a 6 figure salary (NYC) after 7 weeks of graduation. Beyond just the BootCamp, you will need to shore up CS fundamentals and study DSA questions. A BootCamp wont provide you with everything, but it does get you started. YMMV.
I actually went to UCSD and graduated with Computer Science this past year, but didn't feel too ready for the work force. I ended up going to App Academy and just finished this past week! I thought it was a great experience and added good projects to my resume. Hoping that the job search goes well :)
LawrenceGuintu I graduated from ucsc as well. I've been looking for coding bootcamps around san diego. I haven't heard of app academy. is it in san diego?
We actually had a mechanical engineer in our cohort. We've actually had multiple people from different backgrounds. Some with no technical backgrounds at all. It differs from person to person, but from what I have seen everyone has learned a lot and enjoyed it. I'm not sure how many people were hired yet because it's only been a month since we've ended and I have since stopped coming in. I definitely think that if you really do like computer science and are interested in what specific field in computer science the bootcamp teaches it's worth it. Bootcamps train to you specialize is a certain field of computer science then it's up to you if you want to expand and branch out from it, but they do give you skills to become a software engineer in industry.
I went to the University of Denver Coding Bootcamp for web development (they also offer bootcamps for cyber security and data analytics). It was one of the hardest and most rewarding experiences of my life! It is disheartening though to now be on the job market against people with a BS or MS in computer science. It's hard to be taken seriously only doing an intensive program for 6 months, but I have talked to CS majors and they don't cover nearly as much practical development languages. I learned 11 or 12 languages in 6 months, and had to produce projects using all of them. That being said, I feel like I really dedicated the time to learn the languages, whereas a lot of my peers copied and pasted projects, so the quality of programmers coming out of the program are certainly varied, perpetuating the lack of trust in bootcamp alums amongst hiring managers in the tech industry.
I attended Wyncode in Miami FL and was a fantastic experience! Thier support system was excellent and they really make you feel like a part of the family + you really grow close with your peers. I actually just got my first job offer today!!!! I deffffff recommend bootcamps to anyone interested but definitely make sure you're interested and 100% dedicated first. I saw many of my peers quit early on because they didn't know what it entailed. We started with 24 and completed with 15, it's something you need to dedicate all of your time to at least for the time being lol. But if you think about it the ROI it is undeniable... I also struggled with the basic concepts but found out later that the cool thing about programming is that many of the basic concepts I struggled to understand are similar across the board! I reccomend learning some simple stuff, maybe take some treehouse, freecode camp, or codecademy courses first fashoww! Definitely learn things like data types and loops MINIMUM before attending. I reccomend creating a basic CRUD app or being somewhat exposed to the stack or framework your bootcamp works with IS A MUST. Something I think is cool specifically to Team Treehouse is that they have an integrated IDE on the site so you dont have to install any enviorment on your computer which can be veryy mentally intimidating when you've never dealt with something like that before. If anyone in south fla is wondering about a good bootcamp Wyncode all dayyyyyy!!!!!!!
I'm currently doing a second degree in computer engineering and bounced often between the ideas of finishing the degree or going to a bootcamp. I decided not to take the shorter route because I find it difficult to believe that you can get set up to be a competent software engineer without taking the time to understand the fundamentals of CS. Despite all of my hard work I feel that years of studying have not been enough to qualify me for the workforce, so I doubt that 3 months is sufficient. You'll need to put in a lot of self-study time to catch up to a CS/CPEN grad.
makoy94 health sciences (premed). I did cancer research after my degree and prepared for my MCAT, where I realized I became more obsessed with being good enough to get into med school than actually being a doctor. Therefore, I decided to switch careers.
Randy Jama We're quite similar. I finished my degree in Microbiology because I thought I was gonna pursue Medicine. After a working for a few years, my interest changed back and forth from business and finance to computer programming. Despite having not decided to go back to school (yet), I am very much interested in relearning some programming languages and maybe build something. I might do a bootcamp, but I'll refresh other fields (like math) to make sure I don't write crappy code..
I'm on the same boat. I went to college and got a degree in social work. Love what I do but I also always loved computer science. I work for a university now so I am going to start school again in the Spring of 2019 to get a CS degree, but I have been looking to bootcamps and thought it might be a better option. Now that I've done the research I am with you on this one. I don't think a few months can cover everything is a CS degree to be able to be a productive software engineer.
Hi Mayuko! I attended Hack Reactor Remote (11 hours a day from home), and got a job 3 weeks before I finished! Basically went from nothing to software engineer in 9 weeks! I’m excited to be part of this field and to keep learning and growing!
Great videos ! It took me a long time to figure out a way to go. Ultimately, because I did a 4 year BA in Criminology at U of T I ended up deciding to start software engineering at a college and take some university courses as a non degree student for some much needed theoretical training for interviews and things like that. It's hard to figure out what to do because you have camps of folks with degrees who swear by their necessity, those who have them but think they were useless in a day to day job duties sense, those who do boot camps and got jobs and loved it, those who didn't and everything in between. I've done a bunch of career fair research to see what employers are looking for and I'm doing more hackathons so I'm content with the path I've chosen but of course the proof is in the pudding so we'll see if it works out ! Also as an aside - as part of my career fair research, some companies straight up won't hire students or fresh grads who don't have uni CS degrees. But for my college specifically students still end up there just not as a first job so that is something to keep in mind if people want to work at the biggest tech companies right off the bat.
Free Bootcamp! 42 US, located in Fremont California, is one of the more interesting software engineering schools due to that one fact. Seriously, all your code is yours too. To get admitted you have to pass a 4 week "piscine" where you code your heart out alongside several other students in the hopes of getting accepted ( restricted to ages 18-30 however ). The curriculum of peer-to-peer (no teachers), gamification, 24/7 access, and project-based learning is interesting because it complies with the revised Bloom's Taxonomy, plus it may be a solution to Bloom's 2 Sigma problem. The program ranges from 1 year accelerated or 3-5 years for standard (self-paced w/ internship breaks). So far I'm interested in attending, who knows, if I like the whole coding non-stop thing I may as well. For me I just want to be able to work on cool projects and talk with others who are also as passionate. I can't say that's the case for my current college situation (although the people are friendly). Here's a link: 42.us.org/
I dropped out of college and self taught myself python programming. I just couldn't justify the price you pay for college. But how I built my connections and entering into programming with no experience from a company was going to meetups. How I see Meetups is that they are a free way to build connections (free study groups as well). I have a connection with a professor who teaches data science (specifically advanced python programming) at the school, not only has she mentored me but gave me a letter of rec as well.
Well, I routinely attended programming talk show or classes on weekends while working full time as a copywriter, now I've got some freelance work as a front-end web developer. You still build connection wherever and whenever I guess.
The point of school / college is to make the connections to get a job (you need to develop the study skills and discipline on your own). If you already have a (unrelated) degree, then you already have the diploma and the study habits, then you can study on your own (and may still be paying back student loans). I get the feeling that boot campls are aimed at people who hate their current job, and have an idea that they may want to get into software development. For someone who has a technical background and the money for it, then I say sure, go to a coding boot camp, they may help you write your resume at the end of the program. If you do not have a technical background, then you need time to absorb the concepts. I spent a year of just tinkering with code and following tutorials of different programming languages, made fun side projects on my own. Once I had time to let programming "sink in" I felt I had a handle on it and then studied it seriously and then dived into the more complex parts of programming. Can you learn to program, yes? Since the average person does not have a technical background, I would give yourself atleast 6 months to try it on your own before you throw down the money for a coding boot camp.
Completely agree, infact its not even necessary to get a degree for development. I myself was an electromics engineer shifted to web development after some courses on lynda.com and tbh its been amazing. Been working as a full stack developer in a startup and the learning here has been great. In a year i have familiarised myself with javascript, react, nodejs. Opt for a college degree only if you plan on studing further for masters etc otherwise you can just do development for a few years and possibly start your own startup after some experience.
Alvira Rahman hey well both are great, udemy has a more structred course outline where they start from the basics and move forward so its great for new comers. Lynda has a collection of courses and you have to figure out from their titles whether they are for beginners, intermediates or expert levels but their courses are also very informative and aim at the practical applications, i personally prefer lynda because in my line of work i need to bring myself up to speed very quickly regarding some new language or framework that is required in the project and lynda does just that for me
Udemy has been doing some seriously discounted plans on computer engineering courses..like bundle packages. Check them out In regards to whats better, Usman is on point. I prefer Udemy more as its more detailed towards what ever course it is where Lynda you'll have to filter around from the "Professional" ones to the made at home ones.
Totally agree with @jpmmcbride, the video downplays the difficulty of getting a job after completing a bootcamp and doesn't stress enough the narrowness of the resulting skillset. It is also worth mentioning that it may be worth to join a bootcamp in Bay Area, but if you are at an area with less demand for specialized entry-level engineers maybe getting a degree is a better option.
It sounds like a contradiction to say "We need more people in tech" and a moment later say it's extremely difficult to find a job. If it's very competitive, then why do we need more people?
My recommendation is to do your research on the bootcamp in question. Presently I'm in my second week of a bootcamp in Detroit at a place called Grand Circus. It's not cheap and rang in around $8000 up front though there are options to lessen that cost - especially if you live in Detroit where they offer full scholarships to those who don't have the means to pay for it. So what did I do before deciding on this one? Well first, they actually offer a couple of free classes. The first one I took was an intro to coding class that they teach once a week or so. They have an instructor that walks you through creating a javascript program. I did this and really liked the instructor and class overall. However, I was more interested in back end and fortunately they also offered a cheap weekend course called Intro to Back End programming. This was a two day 9-5 course that's held on weekends and once again I had a great time and learned a lot. They also have a similar one for Front End. Although this course was $50, the money paid to it would also go toward the tuition for the 10 week course so in a way it was kinda free. Finally, I toured the school and they showed me around. I scheduled my appointment around 1pm but got there around noon which is when the students were let out for lunch. Because the students have a communal lunch place, I was able to hang out and ask questions. If possible I recommend you do the same as the students were happy to relate their experiences with the course so far. Ultimately however, what really sold me is just meeting random people in my day to day life. I like to play boardgames and meet up at a weekly event at a bar near my house. While making small talk, I mentioned that I was considering doing this bootcamp and one of the guys piped up and said he did and now he was working as a software developer. This same situation happened to me on several occasions and was the biggest factor in choosing this school. Other things I did was to google the school as well as to look it up on Reddit. On reddit, posters were quite favorable of it while they were considerably less so towards an alternative I was considering. Presently I'm now two weeks into the bootcamp and am really enjoying it so far. There's about 20 of us in the class and our instructor and TA are awesome. No matter what questions we throw at the instructor he always seems to have an immediate answer. As for the experiences of those in class, there are several who are new to coding ("learn to code in 12 weeks!" says the sign on the window facing downtown Detroit), a few others like me who have had some experience coding but nothing professional, and one with a computer science degree who decided to take the course to get more real world experience. From what I can tell, those who are new to coding are struggling a bit but they definitely haven't given up and I have every confidence they will learn it given all the support the school and we classmates provide. In the bootcamp, your classmates become not just your new professional network but a family as well because make no mistake that this is an intense and accelerated experience and only by working together will you make it out. Perhaps the person with the degree can do it but for the rest of us, it would definitely be a lot harder individually than as a group. As for help getting a job, this school also does that. Every Friday is a soft skills day where they teach you all sorts of important things. Our first Friday was about Imposter Syndrome - the feeling that you don't belong or shouldn't be where you are. It was a great lesson and, I feel, helped a lot of my classmates feel more at ease. By week 4, we'll be expected to start applying to jobs and eventually will need to apply to several every week on top of also keeping up with our classwork. Our final project, I'm told, will be to create a website that accesses a database, uses an API, and is full stack (front and back end). It's going to be quite the rush but I'm so excited and happy to be doing it. As for the school, it's Grand Circus in Detroit. Thinkful is another school in the area (although their website doesn't list Detroit as a location - I did research on this and they're definitely in the Detroit area) However, reviews on reddit aren't the greatest for them as their schtick is to assign you a mentor that you can work 1:1 with and at your own pace. While that sounds appealing the problem is that the quality of your mentor is everything. If you get a good mentor then you'll be happy. But if you don't, then you'll likely be miserable as well as out several thousand dollars. To me, that was too big a gamble to be worth considering. A bootcamp isn't for everyone. It's a ton of work and you won't be able to work if you do the 12 week full time course. Between class and homework there simply aren't enough hours in the day to also work. Thus, being in a position where you can take care of yourself financially for two and a half months is something one can't ignore. If you're considering it think of it like buying a car. Do you really want to drop thousands of dollars on something that turns out to be a lemon? Really do your research and really think about your situation and whether or not you'll be in a position to take it on. Hopefully this post has helped you out dear reader :). Good luck.
K-Rad hey I also live in the Detroit area and I took one coding class at MCC and while I was researching about coding I came across grand circus and I like how they have a fast course that helps u get a job after, I noticed how it’s 9-5 mon-fri and I thought the same thing it’s gonna be hard to work and also go to school, I’ll probably try the summer bootcamp and save up I know it’ll be worth the $8000 what classes do u recommend before the boot camp?
@@samuelarmstrong3926 Hey man, that's great that you're considering the school! Since you already too a programming class at mcc I think your best course of action is to take one of their weekend classes. They offer an intro to front end and an intro to backend course. These courses are held every few weeks on a weekend and go from 9-5 both Saturday and Sunday. While there you'll go through the basics and create a couple of simple programs. They cost $50 and are applied to your tuition should you decide to jump in. Even if you already know the material however it's a great way to get a feel of the school and meet the people that keep it up and running every day. I took the intro to back end course and really enjoyed it. Go to the Grand circus website and check their events page to see when these will be held again. As for other courses, the more that you can learn about your chosen language the better. I can also say that for java we use eclipse IDE and i think it's likely the others use the same. It's hard to say much more without knowing your level of experience. But if you decide to pursue Java I would say challenge yourself by writing code using as many methods as possible. When I started I could code most basic stuff just fine without writing methods. The problem is that I didn't quite get them and so I started away. But after my first week in the class I decided to post myself to use methods as much as I could and the difference between when I started and now is vast. Methods makes your code a lot cleaner in your main method and has the benefit of being reusable throughout your program. Once you get in the habit of using them you'll wonder why you did without. Anyway I hope all that helps! Good luck to you and maybe I'll see you around!
@@samuelarmstrong3926 Either Windows or Mac will do. But to get more specific when it comes to the windows laptop I would add the following: Laptops are a significant purchase and if you don't have one already you'd want one to last you years. With that in mind I feel the sweetspot for laptops nowadays is around $1000. My recommendations for a new laptop would be the following: At least an Intel i5 processor or equivalent AMD processor (they're competitors so it'll be one or the other) At least 16GB of RAM. A lot of people say 8 is good but I disagree as I feel it will limit how much you can have going on at once. While in the bootcamp you'll be running the IDE along with having several tabs open in your favorite web browser. Having 16 GB of RAM will ensure your laptop will be able to crush those tasks without breaking a sweat If you can swing it - a 250GB SSD Hard drive (or bigger). The key term here is SSD. SSD's are much faster than their conventional brethren and what you'll really get out of it is a much faster boot time. For example, my home desktop has an SSD hard drive and boots up in a matter of seconds. By comparison a conventional HD can take 30 seconds to a minute. That may not seem like much but it adds up quickly. Being able to sit down and start working pretty much right away is a boon for anyone who doesn't like their time wasted. The above is the baseline of what I would consider in a laptop to code with and you can usually find a laptop with those specs for around $1000. Such a laptop will serve you well in the years to come. This will change if there's anything else you really want to do with it (ex: Photoshop/Illustrator, gaming, storing lots and lots of photos) so if you're into any of that let me know and I'll tailor the above specs to it.
Thank you for the insightful comment! I feel like a hybrid between you and Samuel Armstrong (guy who commented above), since my Java experience is due to OCC. It was a blast! To make sure front-end isn't what I wanted, I also took Colt Steele's front-end course on UDemy. Not too much of a blast there for me. As for Reddit, I, too, lurked adamantly in search of any/all advice on Grand Circus. After about six months of researching, going to the info session, and saving up, I told myself that enough is enough and applied. I've recently gotten accepted and am watching MIT Java courses to prepare for the prework. Please keep us updated on your job prospects after you complete the course! PS: what was the most challenging part of the prework? What material did it cover?
I´d love to join a bootcamp but its just too expensive considering that there are all these free or cheap resources online. However, it would be totally awesome to have a small group of like-minded people studying together like in a bootcamp, but selforganized and without the huge financial investment. Some benefits of the coding bootcamp would still apply - like an environment that holds you accountable, a fixed schedule and the possibility of doing group projects. Love you mayuko!
I went to App Academy's pre-bootcamp, which taught me the essentials to ace bootcamp entrance tech interviews. Afterwards, I went to Full Stack Academy. App Academy takes a % of your salary for x amount of months. Full Stack's Grace Hopper program had a tuition deferment model, charging increments totalling around $18K after you get a job. Results definitely depend on the individual. Coming out of the bootcamps, some of my classmates have jobs at JP Morgan, Etsy, Amex, etc... All in all, FS Academy provided quality education. I do agree that there is less emphasis in actual comp sci.
Thanks a lot for this. I really appreciate the information. I am going to start a coding Boot Camp for UCF here in Florida that will last 24 weeks. Wish me luck!
I was joined to a bootcamp after applying at my current company. Good thing they offer that, for I think I need to learn more about the best practices in programming and software engineering. That's mostly what they teach us, because every client or business differ from each other. In the acadeem, I used to work on my own and be a visionary of the product I am dealing with, but I'm sure I lack a lot. The bootcamps creates an atmosphere of confidence to starters in the industry. ☺
I'm currently going to a coding bootcamp in Australia that goes for 25 weeks and it's seriously amazing! It is intense but so captivating, if any of you guys are in Australia you should check out coder academy! The best part is I get placed in an internship for the last month of the course which will most probably help with lading the first job
Just started going to Nashville Software School. Full stack year long camp. It's a non profit so the price was very reasonable for a year's worth of instruction. They have a 6 month day program, and a 12 month night program. I personally do better in a classroom surrounded by help, but can see why people don't choose to go, and stick with independently training themselves. School has a good rep, and a very high success rate. Plus they host a lot of local meetups, and are partnered with a lot of opportunity. I was skeptical about it at first, but I knew I wanted to go to school again. Really didn't want to spend 4 years on a degree having to take loans out for classes that had nothing to do with coding. This was pretty much my only other option out here in Nashville if I wanted an actual classroom. I just started a couple weeks ago so I cant speak on the full experience yet, but from what I've seen so far I think I made the right choice. While paying to learn at a school isn't for everyone i do believe the networking, and resources you can get with programs like this are valuable. You could definitely network, and find resources without attending, but being someone who's pretty antisocial, and only hangs out with my partner and our kid I think I'm being pushed to get this done. Excited for the next year, and hoping this leads to me finally having a career instead of a job. Anyone else go here, or to another boot camp that has some advice, or experiences to share?
A bootcamp most definitely can NOT replace a CS degree, however, you will understand how to use a specific framework that the market currently demands.
Sometimes it's not about time, but more so money. Yes, maybe 4 years at a university prepares you better, but it's also an order of magnitude more expensive so the investment is much greater. There's no secret sauce that magically gives you a job. If you understand the fundamentals of coding and are willing put in long hours to circumvent the cost of college, do projects and create a portfolio, you'll get a job.
Even UC Berkeley starts their coding bootcamp program right now. Whether it's worth go to boot camp vs traditional 4 years, coding bootcamp is surely the best method of raising money for the school for sure.
Starting a full stack bootcamp in June. I already have a 4 yr degree in Finance/Economics and I have been doing quite a bit of SQL in my current job for the metrics we have. I want to make a career switch to something im a bit more passionate about and the bootcamp in my area is a viable option to build a portfolio to compliment some of the experience I have. The only down side for those on the struggle bus with money is that my program costed me around $8500 upfront and its a 24 week program but there are about 30+ companies (in my area) affiliated that hire their grads.
I’m in the prep course for Thinkful’s engineering immersion boot camp. I’ve yet to commit to the full-time program as I have to still pass a tech eval, but the program seems to have a great track record. They publicly display their stats and guarantee you a job within 6 months of graduation or you get your money back. The best part is it’s online with video based mentoring sessions from actual devs in the industry; pretty cool for people like me living in rural areas. Anyone here attend a boot camp with Thinkful?
bluebirdy9385 Hey! Yeah, I started the full-time program a few weeks ago. I live in a nearby city but all the meet ups/events I attend will be in San Diego. Feel free to ask me any questions you may have, just might be a little while before I respond-loads of work to do haha.
Terrance Corley haha thanks I really appreciate it. is there a way to PM you? I won't be doing coding until the end of this year. Good luck on your program
Currently in a bootcamp(end of term1) for Ruby,Rails, HTML, CSS, Javascript, React and NodeJS, GIT, Github and some other technologies and i'm enjoying it fully! The campus organises excursions to big companies (Like Atlassian!) in the area to meet the CEO's and the hiring agents for those companies and giving advice on getting a job. Also at the end of our 3rd term we get an internship at a company which often ends up in a position at that company according to previous cohorts. I guess it depends on what bootcamp you go to and how long it goes for, ours is only 6 months. Although I will only graduate my bootcamp with a diploma in IT i don't want to stop with the technologies we study my first love was C# ! I totally recommend going to a bootcamp because depending which one you go to you can end up with the same or even more connections in the industry. Just a heads up though bootcamps aren't for everyone if you don't love to code you will fail or drop out we've already lost 3 people out of 30.
I'm actually going to a coding bootcamp this summer. I've also been practicing Javascript and C++ on the side so that way I can get a head start on the class. Can't wait!
I went to a boot camp for the mean stack. I still don't have a job 2 years later in that time I've also furthered my skills. I can use the entire Adobe suite, code at a basic level in php, mysqli, js ,html, css, c#. Maybe it's where I live in FL by Gainesville. I'd say overall if you like to learn new skills go, if you're looking for a job don't go. save thousands and just do some udemy courses and make things for your portfolio.
I just went to a part time boot camp. By the time I graduate, there is only 30 out 50 left in my cohort. I would have to say being part time makes it rough at times as it takes a lot of work and time. The TA there are helpful but most of them can only help you so much as they usually have a full-time job in the industry as well. To sum it up, I would say find your style of coding, learn how to find answers that are "helpful" and do not think boot camp as a shortcut to what you wanna do.
Well am graduating from CodeFellows (based out of Seattle) next week in advance full-stack JavaScript with react, redux and node.js. Lots of work and 18 weeks long. Can’t wait to hit the ground running!
Once you got in as a software engineering gig, you have to learn new things (tech, methods, languages) so much faster than what the coding boot camp training. If you want to stay relevant in the field. (Software engineer since 2006)
I think bootcamps should be used as supplementary to one's overall education/transition into SE. I began learning on my own just to see if I had an interest/competency in it. I still am learning on my own as well as studying towards my MCSA/MCSE certifications. We live during a wonderful time in human history where a college education in SE can be closely replicated. Many universities are transparent and consistent with their course catalogues and course content, and even better is that most university bookstores are open to the public. More than once I have spent a Saturday at a campus bookstore looking through what textbooks they have while simultaneously looking up reviews on my phone. Coupled with MOOCs, YT, and bootcamps, it's a solid workaround. Going tens of thousands of dollars into debt for a CS degree, especially if you have a Bachelor's or higher in something else, is unnecessary and unattractive if you have access to a university bookstore and their CS course catalogue.
Johnathan Blackburn would u say it's better to go to Hack Reactor than Codify Academy? Both are in SF but codify is about half the price. I'm still looking around for my best option
If you're unmotivated then bootcamps are for you. Otherwise there are so many free and low cost options out there. Freecodecamp is one i recommend and then use Facebook Meetup to Meetup with local coders. Just remember that whatever path you take ALWAYS be coding. I can't stress this enough.... ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS build projects upload to GitHub and contribute to open source code...no matter how stupid or lame the project sound. Use it as your basis for interviews. I know a lot of people looking to get into software engineer from studying STEM (I came from 2 years of med school) and think they know their shit when reading and understanding from a video or book but trust me when i say you don't know anything unless you code and practice. It's not like any STEM courses...it's not about memorization but more like a sport. You can watch how to play tennis all day and take notes all you want but you know nothing about tennis until you step on the court and practice.
*HEART* I think code bootcamps even an average person had made it for 5 or 10 times but for without passion and attitude, still cannot do or produce good in it. But for a person only tried once a bootcamp but with a burning passion and dedication for tech future job will trascend the challenge. Pay attention to the founders of these top successful bootcamps, majority of them are self taught, they dont even a good college degree and many had not gone thru college degree but they created such tech industry with a respected name. They made something from nothing, with their best capital: *passion and dedication!*
To me i still choose University , not only that you can get friends and connection but also you social skill. Working on SE is not all about coding, youll have to work together with your co workers. Plus i dont know about other Universities, atleast mine only study for 3 years , while the last ussualy learn about real-life problems through internships. So when you graduate , youll have 1 year of working experience
Thank you for talking about this! Sadly, this is not a big concept in Mexico. There was once a Kodea in the capital but it's still a distance from here and I just found out they've closed their doors.
@Winston Mcgee No, you clearly misunderstood. Software engineers is nothing but a job title. It is not a 4 year degree (not commonly at least, there may be some unknown colleges that give out 4 year software engineers degrees). Scrum/Agile/Waterfall are just methodologies used to meet business requirements. Some bootcamps actually DO teach them, by the way. And they certainly dont teach them with a computer science degree. Its more of a business management thing.
It’s hard to be a software engineer if you don’t have experience. I recommend every freshman in college find a startup in the college and intern there. Right now I am interning in a startup and it taught me so much about ionic 2, angular Js for web app development
My experience with programming bootcamps has been great, but I think the city in which you do it and try to find a job in will ultimately have the greatest bearing on landing the first job. In Singapore, for example, it's (still) quite common for most bootcamp grads to be hired as a junior software engineer within 3-4 months of graduating! But like you said, it's harder for that to happen in the Bay Area. In case anyone's interested to read a full review of the bootcamp I went to (General Assembly in Singapore), here's the blog post I wrote - www.nickang.com/general-assembly-singapore-review/ Thanks for sharing your thoughts on programming bootcamps Mayuko! I believe they're a great way to get started in tech. It's what I did 1+ years ago, and it's one of the best things I've done so far :)
There's a course on Udemy by colt steele wrapping all front end stuff cost 15$ or something. It will worth checking it out as it is renewed recently lol...
Actually, most US universities have some places called “career center”. They offer resume examples, correct your resumes, and available for scheduling fake interview appointments (they will pretend like the recruiters and ask you possibly questions in real interview). But, the main reason that bootcamp career services are better because they are forced to help you get jobs in order to have their tuition money.
Ive been denied by bootcamp they are very selective and honestly coding isnt hard to me i grew up loving math so i pick it up quickly but i bombed the interview cause i have anxiety. Definitely need alot of confidence in the interviews.
Hey Mayuko, congrats on getting a sponsor for the video! Could you do a video on how life long learning and self teaching is huge part of the software development industry? I'm particularly interested in what it takes for an IOS programmer to stay up to date on all the latest technology.
I love your hair! So pretty :) Ok, now that that's out of the way, we have a coding bootcamp here in Atlanta. Tuition costs $14,000. Honestly, that seems ridiculous to me. Salaries here aren't even as high as they are in the bay area. But I'm really struggling to learn on my own, so I may not have any other choice!
I am 70 years old and have been through some interviews and I abhor all interviewers I don't believe that interviews should ever be that form of hiring interviewers are ruthless & very hateful because the interviewee come with their best intentions and the #1 thing the interviewer can simply say is WE have many more interviews to go and WE'll call you once WE have done our due diligence!!! in the mean time, the interviewee still doesn't have a job and that was a part of the understood part of taking a very sophisticated curriculum course was to get hired before graduating that has happened to me way more than once and that is very wrong there seriously need to be some type hiring Justice in being told promises just to learn and then graduate with high honors regardless of age I'm just saying graduating with high honors needs and must be a successful hiring PROMISE KEPT
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you, bootcamps are not a sustainable way to educate competent software engineers. Currently, the market is being flooded by bootcamp grads and entry level positions are becoming more and more difficult to acquire with no previous experience or college education. Further, most bootcamps do not teach fundamental computer science, the building blocks of software engineering. Like you said, they really only teach one framework and one set of skills (web, ruby on rails, etc). What will happen when React goes out of style? When ruby on rails goes out of style? All those bootcamp grades will be out of luck because they don't poses the fundamental skills taught in a traditional 4 year degrees. All they know is some web framework. You even say it yourself, getting that first job is extremely difficult for bootcamp grads; they do not have the skills needed to interview well, boot camp certificates are not accredited, and someone with a traditional 4 year degree in computer science will be hired more often then someone without that degree. To anyone reading this that is considering a bootcamp, you are much better off going and getting a degree to enter the software field. It is far more sustainable, provides you the building blocks of computer science, and will be much better for you in the long run.
Hey gotta disagree. While being in a good bootcamp program is great, you have to be motivated as an individual to really want to succeed in the bootcamp and obtain a career in the tech space. It takes a lot of dedication and effort. These programs tend to weed out lazy people who think this is an easy way to get a solid job; it is absolutely not easy. I know some bootcamp grads who are doing well for themselves now working as software engineers. Its a great way to stream line entry into the tech space. I also know another guy who studied Finance but went back to school at 24 to get a CS degree and also loves it. It just depends on the person. People have different motivations and don't have the time to spend 4 years again in college to get a CS degree -- not to mention the price. I would say assess all options before dropping money and committing your time to school or bootcamp. If someone wants to learn CS fundamentals, there are other alternatives to school and free resources, such as this (github.com/ossu/computer-science). As for job availability, there will always be jobs in software, software is literally eating the world as Marc Andreesseen always says -- many industries are being disrupted and now require these software folks these days which probably would not even consider having even 1 software person a decade ago. If you graduated with lets say, a Psychology degree and you want to do something else. Bootcamp is a pretty solid option. And for those of you considering it, it is not a regular college class. You have to commit your time to it whether 3 months or 6 months long. Do your research on bootcamps too, some of them are useless. Also, make sure to have some dedication to life long learning of the craft of software. As numerous individuals have said throughout history, "life short, craft long, opportunity fleeting, judgement difficult". Solid read too here, norvig.com/21-days.html
Yeah, I absolutely agree. I really hate it when people say that there are just so many opportunities for software engineers that the industry is desperate for more. Yeah, but now there are so many people who want to do CS that entry level positions are harder to find, and companies only want junior and senior positions. If you do manage to find an entry level position, 99% of the time they treat you like a monkey and basically give you the dirty work that no one wants to do. I know I’m being harsh, but I’m just tired of people getting confused when they hear I don’t have an entry level job yet as a software engineer. @John McBride What are your thoughts on those people?
I'm at a 16 week coding boot camp in Glasgow, Scotland. I feel like I've learned so much but the pace it goes at is so intense, and I am worried about going against people with CS degrees to get a job. I've got 3 weeks to go so fingers crossed I manage to get a job after!
Programming be it an IT or CS is an actual job. Not much theoretical compared to Law or Doctorate. In computer programming, the significance of the job is in the actuality and what you can produce not much on what you learned in theoretical fashion. Yeah, theoretically bookish it can be for college degrees but still the fight is generally in actualization. In bootcamps they go directly on what is necessary and attack it(provided the learner had prerequisite passion and dedication). I may refer it to as if doing what is more relevant and necessary. But still in the job world it doesnt pay attention as to what info you learned but what can you do that adds up value. In the end they are all both programmers: *one is from a so called HackReactor and the other one from University of Anything.*
Could you please do a video explaining income as a software engineer and show actual numbers? Yearly salary, health benefits, retirement savings, etc. Not too intrusive, but I'd like a real life tangible account of a software engineer's finances. Not a random and averaged figure posted on a college's website telling you how much you'll make if you graduate from them. (Probably biased, unreal, and outdated data)
I am doing the freecodecamp courses where the web development is taught easy and you can learn new things. Good for people who don't have any prior knowledge on it.
just to piggyback off the AR app--what do you think is the future of gaming Mayuko? have you heard of Google's recent endeavor into gaming called "Stadia?" do U think this will actually be successful? or it will still fail relatively to bring as much as do the Japanese companies like Nintendo or Squaresoft travelling much farther into gaming than any company in America has truthfully ever done.
Ooo love your new 💇 I did a part time coding class so let me see whether I had the grit to get thru the program before i quit my job. It was really hard handling day job and the coursework. I was glad I was able to find out I wasn't cut out for it before quitting my job. Plus learning about sprints made me realize I preferred my no OT lifestyle already. The course did lead me to starting my website again. So even if ppl learn they aren't cut out or too old to change vocations there is other web work like digital sales seo and lead generation also needed in todays latest skill sets
I went to a boot camp and severely regret it. Maybe if you have a background in coding already then it might be a good idea, but even then it's way too expensive. Just do the free coding bootcamp online or take some codemy courses. Do not waste a s*** ton of money on a coding bootcamp.
Mayuko, Thank you for posting your stories. They have been very helpful! I am wrestling with the idea of going back to school so I can get some type of programming job. I haven't decided on what specific job yet, but I know I want it to be computer science related. I have a bachelors in mechanical engineering and am currently working a full time job. Would getting an online masters degree in computer science be sufficient for a programming job or would I be better off getting my bachelors in computer science or going to coding boot camp?
I went to a boot camp, and they actually paid me to attend. The only two downsides were I had to work for their company for 4 years afterwards and it was the army. Don't do it.
Did they at least pay you a good salary in the four years?
Lmfao
Haha, I made a similar mistake. Only I joined the Army Reserve for eight years and ended up with virtually no training in a job I have absolutely no interest in...
Dude, the same thing happened to me! lmao Thanks for your service, battle
well i teach people how to make ios and android games... subscribe! :D
I've gone to a 'part time' boot camp not even meant to give you a job. I was probably last in the pack of the class too. I struggled with the basics. Sat there looking clueless. It was demotivating. The bootcamp had no promises of finding a job or refunds after six months if you don't find anything. But i worked hard there, got an internship built experience and have been doing software for almost three years now. It wasn't the bootcamp that got me the job though. It was learning how to learn. If I can do it, anyone else can!
That was inspiring bro, im self teaching myself now.
well i teach people how to make ios and android games... subscribe! :D
Just signed in to say thanks for sharing your story. Up-voted this.
I also did something similar to a bootcamp (part time for one year) and am now a software engineer at Pinterest. I've been here two years. Best decision ever!
Best thing is self taught. Dont get into it unless atleast you have minimum knowledge of the ABC of programming.
Directions not clear. Went to boot camp. Wound up in Iraq
😂😂😂
💀
😂😂😂
What!
How did you wind up in Iraq?
I went to Wyncode in Miami about a year and a half ago and definitely the best decision of my career life. Took me 3 months, 177 job applications, and 3 more apps after completing the program to get my first QA role. Still 100% worth it. But not a hard comparison between that or going back to the shitty $10 an hour manual labor jobs I was doing before... After a month being there putting in a few extra hours after work and showing my portfolio to a few people, I got another offer within the company for both a Software and DevOps Engineer role in the same day. The major take away from boot camps is really learning how to learn and not giving up. Lol funny how the most cliche advice is usually the truest but it's always easier said than done you feels me. Some solid advice I always like to recite is the question "If you knew youd make it in 5-10 years would this current stress still be stressful?" You can do it, proper actions yield desired results. If not, keep trying or switch up the plan fam. Either way, you still got this
Killed it per usual! Congrats on getting sponsored as well! FWIW, I have a family member who went to flatiron and was able to secure a job only 2 months later. Definitely a bootcamp supporter!
I'm currently in a coding bootcamp in Hawai'i called DevLeague. The bootcamp has several different courses, and the one I'm taking is the Cyber Security Professional as part-time. I'm about half-way through the class, and it has been incredible. Been learning a lot about networks, reconnaissance, reverse engineering, threats and vulnerabilities, etc.. What I like most about the bootcamp is the hands-on practice. There's a few times throughout the week we have lecture, but most of the time we're working on labs, projects, exercises, and capture-the-flag. I'd say the most difficult part is having to balance class with my full-time job and life. We do have assignments outside of class, and it can be overwhelming. But I still enjoy class no matter what because I want to have a career in tech and I have a passion for it.
I think this comment section will be split between people who argue that cs degree is a better option and people who think doing a bootcamp is good enough as long as you get a job.
Either way you need to learn a lot to become an cs engineer regardless of which way you go!
I don't think people who do a bootcamp get it any easier. This is a personal choice. I'm glad this alternative exists, even though I go to college myself.
Hello Mayuko! Love your videos and keep up the awesome work! I recently just finished a 'part-time' bootcamp with Trilogy Education associated with UCSD Extension. It was very challenging because they go over a wide variety of technologies, practices, and other skills quickly over a short period of time. I'm still in the process of finding a job and beefing up my coding skills. One useful thing that I found is going to Meet-Ups related to programming. It's helpful on learning new things happening in the industry, practicing with the basics, and networking with people working in the industry!
I have seen my friends use bootcamps as a hail mary pass or last resort career change because they just did.. not... love their job. They were working rigorous and odd hours in accounting, analyst work that lead in low direction or sales that could get repetitive. Bootcamps are a great way to get your foot in the door, but the most important thing I don't see is how they match your passion to a true career path. The worst part is being paired with debt + (I've seen up to a year and a half) of soul searching and not being formally trained to nail the interview process or have mediocre / incomplete showcase projects to sell. It's emotionally draining. So I definitely challenge people that enter these programs to really understand what they are devoting their next years (or their future lives) to. You can boot camp to be a PM, a product / ux / ui designer, a marketer.. any field. Just make sure you identify what you truly work hardest in and love.
It's very interesting topic. Here, in Poland where I live, bootcamp aren't popular at all and probably won't be any time soon. There is one huge reason for that: university education is free in here (there are some private, paid ones as well but in most cases they are worse than public ones). Coding bootcamps on the other hand cost quite a lot. I've found some random one really quick. It costs about as much as I earn in 4 months as a junior java dev and it is 360h long. Of course it allows you to gain necessary knowledge but I'm not sure if having no degree won't block some career paths tho.
Hi amongalen, i'm currently a foreign student in Java Development in Poland, i will end my studies next year and i have tons of questions about Junior Java Dev in Poland. Would you like to help me answering some of my question and worries ? Thank you very much :)
Sure, feel free to ask anything. I'll do my best to help. However, I just recently started my first job so I don't have much experience but I'll try.
What speaking language do you use daily in your job ? English or Polish because I saw a lot of job offers which says advanced english required but I am always wondering which language do they speak in the company.
And did you manage to find a junior java job easily ?
In the company I work in we use Polish only but it's purely Polish company that focuses on Polish market. If I recall correctly the didn't require English at all. However, it really varies from company to company. I remember an interview in one company that was entirely in English. I'm pretty sure they use it on a daily basis. And then there are international companies like Sabre and such that most likely use English as well. I'd say it's always a good idea to send an email and ask.
When it comes to the other question: I have to admit it took me quite a lot of time to find a job, 4 or 5 months. However, it really depends on your knowledge and experience. Most companies look for people that know some kind of framework like Angular, Hibernate or Spring. I know neither of those. I had very little previous experience, just a 3month intern and thats it. And then there's Java specific knowledge which in most cases you won't learn on the university. The most common questions are regarding collections (differences; why use one over the other; computational complexity of different actions etc), exceptions, threads (2 ways of creating them, why use one over the other), SOLID, abstract class vs interface etc. I've recently started reading Effective Java, 3rd Edition by Joshua Bloch. It's a great book, I highly recommend it. It's even updated to Java 9!
If you can it might be a good idea to look for an internship before finishing ur studies. Many companies offer an job after finishing the intern. Very often it is possible to do it half-time (like 20h a week, you come every second day or something).
Thank you so much for all these precious informations :)
🙋🏻♂️ self taught and continually self teaching. Didn’t have the opportunity to go to college and parents never had the $$. Got married, kids came along and bootcamp was an option for me but I wasn’t making enough money to cover the costs. 2 years later after self teaching I was offered a job as a Software Dev making 3x the money I was making.
Thanks for this video.
What languages and projects did you teach yourself?
I went to a bootcamp in Canada. I was one of the bottom in the class when it came to backend programming (if not dead last). I was however, about 3rd or 4th rank on the overall frontend (out of 12 in our cohort) and maybe 1st or 2nd rank in styling. I made a portfolio page, and 3 freelance pages after we had completed our training. After that, I applied to a job and was hired 2 months after completion. It is well worth it, in my opinion. Even if you take 1 year in finding work, you can still train yourself until then. Compared to a 2 or 4 year program in college, you would still be hired before they finish, with a lower level of debt upon completion.
I live in Vancouver, Canada and I went to a local coding bootcamp here called CodeCore. I think bootcamps are very fair to the student: what you get out of it is what you put into it. The job searching process afterwards is really just a numbers game. It's all down to how hard you want to push yourself not only during the bootcamp but also job searching afterwards. Personally it took me 2.5 months to land my first job as a software engineer.
"No one is formally teaching you these things even in college" LMAO. I'm here mostly because they aren't teaching me crap in university. almost at the end of 2nd year and all i really know is how to make a linked list in Java and a alittle bit of introduction to C. Everything else I know is what i've been working on myself. wasting money doing a bunch of other subjects that isn't totally relevant to me(bio, environmental studies, etc). wasting me and my parent's money here tbh.
Lol yeah I'm an Environmental sustainability graduate...and that definitely hit home.
if you dont mind telling us, what was the uni you went to/are currently going to? Just so I know where to avoid XD
Oh wow this was 2 years ago lol. Update: graduated uni in November working as a devsecops, making websites on the side and just built a computer to get into some gameplay engineering and video production. Almost failed university cause was focusing on improving my cyber security and programming knowledge. But it turned out great for me once I stopped depending on uni to teach me things :D
@aena mustafa from my experience it's good to have the university certificate which is the bachelor's or whatever.Yes you will be wasting around 3-4 years of your life but it can be worth it if you choose to go with uni especially with meeting people who can make your life much easier when it's time to go into the working world, I will not speak for boot camp since I have never attended one. The one biggest advise imma give you. Out side of the classroom. Teach yourself! Practice! And don't be afraid to fail. and of course when developing keep OWASP Top 10 in mind
wtf are you majored in? there's no way you're majored in computer science/software engineering and they're having you take enviromental studies... there's just no fucking way.
I went to Code Fellows in Seattle and it was a great experience. I can agree that finding the first job is difficult. I am going through that process right now. You are going up against applicants with computer science degrees so networking is basically the only way to stand out in the crowd. If I had to do it all over again I would have gone to my local community college that offers an IT focused bachelors degree that is basically their version of a coding boot camp, but you will at least have the bachelors degree to show for it instead of a certificate. Check your area for similar programs.
Carlo Santos how's everything going for you now? Did you find a company yet?
I’m currently going to CodeFellows as well. How have things turned out for you?
Community college doesn't offer bachelor's degree. Try again.
I worked as a recruiter for multiple tech startups and from my experience, coding bootcamps are not a good way to build a long-term career. For almost all entry-level positions we were inundated with hundreds and sometimes thousands of job applications most of which were from bootcamps. The vast majority of "graduates" didn't know really basic stuff or if they did know how to solve a problem they didn't know the correct terminology to accurately describe what they were doing. Communication is a huge part of working on any team both front and back end. That said, none of my bosses ever even considered a single bootcamp applicant for a back end role because they simply didn't have the CS foundation for real problem solving. Most if not all bootcamps are designed to teach you about really basic stuff on all the "hot" languages like ruby on rails but it's really shallow knowledge. Graduates rarely had any useful experience other than maybe designing a really simple template website or coding an 8 bit game like snake.
I'm not saying we never hired a bootcamp graduate. I remember hiring maybe two or three bootcamp graduates but they were for front end positions so UI stuff, not super CS heavy. The things all those graduates had in common was that they had actual practical experience. They were mainly self taught coders who took bootcamp more for the connections than the lessons or someone with a CS degree from a decade ago that just needed to get up to date. They were already way ahead of the regular bootcamp curriculum. But we'd almost always hire the fresh grad with an actual CS degree than anyone from a bootcamp even if they had some jobs under their belt.
The problem comes down to a good foundation. If you were a really fast study and top of the bootcamp class we could ask you to do something like put in a module somewhere. But if we had a problem and you had to come up with your own solution, nobody ever knew how because they didn't have the foundation that CS degrees usually give. There's no comparison to what you'd learn in a few months VS four years. So I can't endorse bootcamps unless you're a self taught coder who's been eating breathing code since they were 14 and just needs connections or an older coder who's been out of the game for a while OR you're just a prodigy that needs a less expensive structured environment.
I get what you're saying but remember boot camp training takes like 3-6 months, college degrees can take 4 years.
That gives boot camp graduates like 3 years to get real job experience where as a college graduate would most likely still be looking for his/her first job.
Not to mention, CS degrees at most colleges just arent that good at teaching students modern ways to build products because technology moves so fast. So more often than not its up to the student to teach them self anyways, which isn't a bad skill to learn, but imagine paying ten thousands of dollars plus interest to teach yourself a skill that you can learn for free. Not to mention all the time you waste. Its just a bad deal.
I have a degree but if I could go back I would definitely look into a boot camp. If boot camp education replaces colleges for tech in the future I wouldn't be surprised.
im a newbie software engineer and just wanna say thanks to all programmer youtuber whos making the tutorial and coding related video and posted it on youtube. my parents cant afford me to get me into college but im grateful youtube is like a college for me thanks !
I'm currently going to thinkful's bootcamp and loving it! It's very difficult but very rewarding. It's a remote bootcamp that is 5 months long and pretty expensive. Thinkful recently acquired bloc and I have to say the support team is great to have. I'm on the west coast but since its remote, its available nationwide.
What made you pick Thinkful over the rest ?
Have a friend that did that he is working as a full stack web developer now😄
I did a coding boot camp, overall good experience. I landed a 6 figure salary (NYC) after 7 weeks of graduation. Beyond just the BootCamp, you will need to shore up CS fundamentals and study DSA questions. A BootCamp wont provide you with everything, but it does get you started. YMMV.
I actually went to UCSD and graduated with Computer Science this past year, but didn't feel too ready for the work force. I ended up going to App Academy and just finished this past week! I thought it was a great experience and added good projects to my resume. Hoping that the job search goes well :)
LawrenceGuintu I graduated from ucsc as well. I've been looking for coding bootcamps around san diego. I haven't heard of app academy. is it in san diego?
No, sorry! I'm actually from the Bay Area, so I attended it after I went back home. App Academy has offices in San Francisco and New York.
LawrenceGuintu do you recommend people with technical background to join background? I'm mechanical engineer and looking to switch career
We actually had a mechanical engineer in our cohort. We've actually had multiple people from different backgrounds. Some with no technical backgrounds at all. It differs from person to person, but from what I have seen everyone has learned a lot and enjoyed it. I'm not sure how many people were hired yet because it's only been a month since we've ended and I have since stopped coming in. I definitely think that if you really do like computer science and are interested in what specific field in computer science the bootcamp teaches it's worth it. Bootcamps train to you specialize is a certain field of computer science then it's up to you if you want to expand and branch out from it, but they do give you skills to become a software engineer in industry.
I need a software engineer in Wadiya.
Ok im done 😃
hahaha so sad XD
First you must create a nuclear bomb and bounce it off Israel without it going kaboom
Aladeen !
Hahahaa
I really like her personality...
I went to the University of Denver Coding Bootcamp for web development (they also offer bootcamps for cyber security and data analytics). It was one of the hardest and most rewarding experiences of my life! It is disheartening though to now be on the job market against people with a BS or MS in computer science. It's hard to be taken seriously only doing an intensive program for 6 months, but I have talked to CS majors and they don't cover nearly as much practical development languages. I learned 11 or 12 languages in 6 months, and had to produce projects using all of them. That being said, I feel like I really dedicated the time to learn the languages, whereas a lot of my peers copied and pasted projects, so the quality of programmers coming out of the program are certainly varied, perpetuating the lack of trust in bootcamp alums amongst hiring managers in the tech industry.
I attended Wyncode in Miami FL and was a fantastic experience! Thier support system was excellent and they really make you feel like a part of the family + you really grow close with your peers. I actually just got my first job offer today!!!!
I deffffff recommend bootcamps to anyone interested but definitely make sure you're interested and 100% dedicated first. I saw many of my peers quit early on because they didn't know what it entailed. We started with 24 and completed with 15, it's something you need to dedicate all of your time to at least for the time being lol. But if you think about it the ROI it is undeniable... I also struggled with the basic concepts but found out later that the cool thing about programming is that many of the basic concepts I struggled to understand are similar across the board!
I reccomend learning some simple stuff, maybe take some treehouse, freecode camp, or codecademy courses first fashoww! Definitely learn things like data types and loops MINIMUM before attending. I reccomend creating a basic CRUD app or being somewhat exposed to the stack or framework your bootcamp works with IS A MUST. Something I think is cool specifically to Team Treehouse is that they have an integrated IDE on the site so you dont have to install any enviorment on your computer which can be veryy mentally intimidating when you've never dealt with something like that before.
If anyone in south fla is wondering about a good bootcamp Wyncode all dayyyyyy!!!!!!!
you will be great in this industry, just keep focusing keep hard working, you name will be seen on the top list...
I'm currently doing a second degree in computer engineering and bounced often between the ideas of finishing the degree or going to a bootcamp. I decided not to take the shorter route because I find it difficult to believe that you can get set up to be a competent software engineer without taking the time to understand the fundamentals of CS. Despite all of my hard work I feel that years of studying have not been enough to qualify me for the workforce, so I doubt that 3 months is sufficient. You'll need to put in a lot of self-study time to catch up to a CS/CPEN grad.
Randy Jama What was your first degree?
makoy94 health sciences (premed). I did cancer research after my degree and prepared for my MCAT, where I realized I became more obsessed with being good enough to get into med school than actually being a doctor. Therefore, I decided to switch careers.
Randy Jama We're quite similar. I finished my degree in Microbiology because I thought I was gonna pursue Medicine. After a working for a few years, my interest changed back and forth from business and finance to computer programming.
Despite having not decided to go back to school (yet), I am very much interested in relearning some programming languages and maybe build something. I might do a bootcamp, but I'll refresh other fields (like math) to make sure I don't write crappy code..
I'm on the same boat. I went to college and got a degree in social work. Love what I do but I also always loved computer science. I work for a university now so I am going to start school again in the Spring of 2019 to get a CS degree, but I have been looking to bootcamps and thought it might be a better option. Now that I've done the research I am with you on this one. I don't think a few months can cover everything is a CS degree to be able to be a productive software engineer.
Hi Mayuko! I attended Hack Reactor Remote (11 hours a day from home), and got a job 3 weeks before I finished! Basically went from nothing to software engineer in 9 weeks! I’m excited to be part of this field and to keep learning and growing!
For what company?
Great videos ! It took me a long time to figure out a way to go. Ultimately, because I did a 4 year BA in Criminology at U of T I ended up deciding to start software engineering at a college and take some university courses as a non degree student for some much needed theoretical training for interviews and things like that. It's hard to figure out what to do because you have camps of folks with degrees who swear by their necessity, those who have them but think they were useless in a day to day job duties sense, those who do boot camps and got jobs and loved it, those who didn't and everything in between. I've done a bunch of career fair research to see what employers are looking for and I'm doing more hackathons so I'm content with the path I've chosen but of course the proof is in the pudding so we'll see if it works out ! Also as an aside - as part of my career fair research, some companies straight up won't hire students or fresh grads who don't have uni CS degrees. But for my college specifically students still end up there just not as a first job so that is something to keep in mind if people want to work at the biggest tech companies right off the bat.
Udemy, and Coursera are more than enough to get in this field I got my degree but I also use these methods of learning.
Is it free?
@@davidpalafox6978 They do offer some free courses but i do recommend paid courses they offer more.
I'm about to be officially enrolled at University of Pennsylvania's LPS coding program. I'm stupid-nervous, but extremely determined.
Free Bootcamp!
42 US, located in Fremont California, is one of the more interesting software engineering schools due to that one fact. Seriously, all your code is yours too. To get admitted you have to pass a 4 week "piscine" where you code your heart out alongside several other students in the hopes of getting accepted ( restricted to ages 18-30 however ).
The curriculum of peer-to-peer (no teachers), gamification, 24/7 access, and project-based learning is interesting because it complies with the revised Bloom's Taxonomy, plus it may be a solution to Bloom's 2 Sigma problem.
The program ranges from 1 year accelerated or 3-5 years for standard (self-paced w/ internship breaks).
So far I'm interested in attending, who knows, if I like the whole coding non-stop thing I may as well.
For me I just want to be able to work on cool projects and talk with others who are also as passionate.
I can't say that's the case for my current college situation (although the people are friendly).
Here's a link:
42.us.org/
Still prefer college. For me it's not about the degree, but for the connection and stuff.
I would argue that bootcamps are better for connections.
I dropped out of college and self taught myself python programming. I just couldn't justify the price you pay for college. But how I built my connections and entering into programming with no experience from a company was going to meetups. How I see Meetups is that they are a free way to build connections (free study groups as well). I have a connection with a professor who teaches data science (specifically advanced python programming) at the school, not only has she mentored me but gave me a letter of rec as well.
Well, I routinely attended programming talk show or classes on weekends while working full time as a copywriter, now I've got some freelance work as a front-end web developer. You still build connection wherever and whenever I guess.
Hi. How long have you been studying Front-end skills before you got your first job?
I studied it 2 month but wondering how to get a job on that. Coz almost all require you to be a senior front-end engineer...
The point of school / college is to make the connections to get a job (you need to develop the study skills and discipline on your own). If you already have a (unrelated) degree, then you already have the diploma and the study habits, then you can study on your own (and may still be paying back student loans). I get the feeling that boot campls are aimed at people who hate their current job, and have an idea that they may want to get into software development. For someone who has a technical background and the money for it, then I say sure, go to a coding boot camp, they may help you write your resume at the end of the program. If you do not have a technical background, then you need time to absorb the concepts. I spent a year of just tinkering with code and following tutorials of different programming languages, made fun side projects on my own. Once I had time to let programming "sink in" I felt I had a handle on it and then studied it seriously and then dived into the more complex parts of programming. Can you learn to program, yes? Since the average person does not have a technical background, I would give yourself atleast 6 months to try it on your own before you throw down the money for a coding boot camp.
Completely agree, infact its not even necessary to get a degree for development. I myself was an electromics engineer shifted to web development after some courses on lynda.com and tbh its been amazing. Been working as a full stack developer in a startup and the learning here has been great. In a year i have familiarised myself with javascript, react, nodejs. Opt for a college degree only if you plan on studing further for masters etc otherwise you can just do development for a few years and possibly start your own startup after some experience.
Usman Subhani heyy just started learning, terribly confused between Udemy n Lynda. Which is better?
Alvira Rahman hey well both are great, udemy has a more structred course outline where they start from the basics and move forward so its great for new comers. Lynda has a collection of courses and you have to figure out from their titles whether they are for beginners, intermediates or expert levels but their courses are also very informative and aim at the practical applications, i personally prefer lynda because in my line of work i need to bring myself up to speed very quickly regarding some new language or framework that is required in the project and lynda does just that for me
Udemy has been doing some seriously discounted plans on computer engineering courses..like bundle packages. Check them out
In regards to whats better, Usman is on point. I prefer Udemy more as its more detailed towards what ever course it is where Lynda you'll have to filter around from the "Professional" ones to the made at home ones.
Thank you for making an informative video without going on and on and....kudos to you for getting straight to the point!
Totally agree with @jpmmcbride, the video downplays the difficulty of getting a job after completing a bootcamp and doesn't stress enough the narrowness of the resulting skillset. It is also worth mentioning that it may be worth to join a bootcamp in Bay Area, but if you are at an area with less demand for specialized entry-level engineers maybe getting a degree is a better option.
It sounds like a contradiction to say "We need more people in tech" and a moment later say it's extremely difficult to find a job. If it's very competitive, then why do we need more people?
My recommendation is to do your research on the bootcamp in question. Presently I'm in my second week of a bootcamp in Detroit at a place called Grand Circus. It's not cheap and rang in around $8000 up front though there are options to lessen that cost - especially if you live in Detroit where they offer full scholarships to those who don't have the means to pay for it.
So what did I do before deciding on this one? Well first, they actually offer a couple of free classes. The first one I took was an intro to coding class that they teach once a week or so. They have an instructor that walks you through creating a javascript program. I did this and really liked the instructor and class overall.
However, I was more interested in back end and fortunately they also offered a cheap weekend course called Intro to Back End programming. This was a two day 9-5 course that's held on weekends and once again I had a great time and learned a lot. They also have a similar one for Front End.
Although this course was $50, the money paid to it would also go toward the tuition for the 10 week course so in a way it was kinda free. Finally, I toured the school and they showed me around. I scheduled my appointment around 1pm but got there around noon which is when the students were let out for lunch. Because the students have a communal lunch place, I was able to hang out and ask questions. If possible I recommend you do the same as the students were happy to relate their experiences with the course so far.
Ultimately however, what really sold me is just meeting random people in my day to day life. I like to play boardgames and meet up at a weekly event at a bar near my house. While making small talk, I mentioned that I was considering doing this bootcamp and one of the guys piped up and said he did and now he was working as a software developer. This same situation happened to me on several occasions and was the biggest factor in choosing this school.
Other things I did was to google the school as well as to look it up on Reddit. On reddit, posters were quite favorable of it while they were considerably less so towards an alternative I was considering.
Presently I'm now two weeks into the bootcamp and am really enjoying it so far. There's about 20 of us in the class and our instructor and TA are awesome. No matter what questions we throw at the instructor he always seems to have an immediate answer.
As for the experiences of those in class, there are several who are new to coding ("learn to code in 12 weeks!" says the sign on the window facing downtown Detroit), a few others like me who have had some experience coding but nothing professional, and one with a computer science degree who decided to take the course to get more real world experience.
From what I can tell, those who are new to coding are struggling a bit but they definitely haven't given up and I have every confidence they will learn it given all the support the school and we classmates provide.
In the bootcamp, your classmates become not just your new professional network but a family as well because make no mistake that this is an intense and accelerated experience and only by working together will you make it out. Perhaps the person with the degree can do it but for the rest of us, it would definitely be a lot harder individually than as a group.
As for help getting a job, this school also does that. Every Friday is a soft skills day where they teach you all sorts of important things. Our first Friday was about Imposter Syndrome - the feeling that you don't belong or shouldn't be where you are. It was a great lesson and, I feel, helped a lot of my classmates feel more at ease.
By week 4, we'll be expected to start applying to jobs and eventually will need to apply to several every week on top of also keeping up with our classwork.
Our final project, I'm told, will be to create a website that accesses a database, uses an API, and is full stack (front and back end). It's going to be quite the rush but I'm so excited and happy to be doing it.
As for the school, it's Grand Circus in Detroit. Thinkful is another school in the area (although their website doesn't list Detroit as a location - I did research on this and they're definitely in the Detroit area) However, reviews on reddit aren't the greatest for them as their schtick is to assign you a mentor that you can work 1:1 with and at your own pace. While that sounds appealing the problem is that the quality of your mentor is everything. If you get a good mentor then you'll be happy. But if you don't, then you'll likely be miserable as well as out several thousand dollars. To me, that was too big a gamble to be worth considering.
A bootcamp isn't for everyone. It's a ton of work and you won't be able to work if you do the 12 week full time course. Between class and homework there simply aren't enough hours in the day to also work. Thus, being in a position where you can take care of yourself financially for two and a half months is something one can't ignore. If you're considering it think of it like buying a car. Do you really want to drop thousands of dollars on something that turns out to be a lemon? Really do your research and really think about your situation and whether or not you'll be in a position to take it on.
Hopefully this post has helped you out dear reader :). Good luck.
K-Rad hey I also live in the Detroit area and I took one coding class at MCC and while I was researching about coding I came across grand circus and I like how they have a fast course that helps u get a job after, I noticed how it’s 9-5 mon-fri and I thought the same thing it’s gonna be hard to work and also go to school, I’ll probably try the summer bootcamp and save up I know it’ll be worth the $8000 what classes do u recommend before the boot camp?
@@samuelarmstrong3926 Hey man, that's great that you're considering the school! Since you already too a programming class at mcc I think your best course of action is to take one of their weekend classes. They offer an intro to front end and an intro to backend course. These courses are held every few weeks on a weekend and go from 9-5 both Saturday and Sunday. While there you'll go through the basics and create a couple of simple programs. They cost $50 and are applied to your tuition should you decide to jump in. Even if you already know the material however it's a great way to get a feel of the school and meet the people that keep it up and running every day.
I took the intro to back end course and really enjoyed it.
Go to the Grand circus website and check their events page to see when these will be held again.
As for other courses, the more that you can learn about your chosen language the better. I can also say that for java we use eclipse IDE and i think it's likely the others use the same. It's hard to say much more without knowing your level of experience. But if you decide to pursue Java I would say challenge yourself by writing code using as many methods as possible. When I started I could code most basic stuff just fine without writing methods. The problem is that I didn't quite get them and so I started away. But after my first week in the class I decided to post myself to use methods as much as I could and the difference between when I started and now is vast. Methods makes your code a lot cleaner in your main method and has the benefit of being reusable throughout your program. Once you get in the habit of using them you'll wonder why you did without.
Anyway I hope all that helps! Good luck to you and maybe I'll see you around!
K-Rad thanks for the advice I appreciate it I’ll look into the weekend classes and what kinda laptop do u recommend?
@@samuelarmstrong3926 Either Windows or Mac will do. But to get more specific when it comes to the windows laptop I would add the following:
Laptops are a significant purchase and if you don't have one already you'd want one to last you years. With that in mind I feel the sweetspot for laptops nowadays is around $1000.
My recommendations for a new laptop would be the following:
At least an Intel i5 processor or equivalent AMD processor (they're competitors so it'll be one or the other)
At least 16GB of RAM. A lot of people say 8 is good but I disagree as I feel it will limit how much you can have going on at once. While in the bootcamp you'll be running the IDE along with having several tabs open in your favorite web browser. Having 16 GB of RAM will ensure your laptop will be able to crush those tasks without breaking a sweat
If you can swing it - a 250GB SSD Hard drive (or bigger). The key term here is SSD. SSD's are much faster than their conventional brethren and what you'll really get out of it is a much faster boot time. For example, my home desktop has an SSD hard drive and boots up in a matter of seconds. By comparison a conventional HD can take 30 seconds to a minute. That may not seem like much but it adds up quickly. Being able to sit down and start working pretty much right away is a boon for anyone who doesn't like their time wasted.
The above is the baseline of what I would consider in a laptop to code with and you can usually find a laptop with those specs for around $1000. Such a laptop will serve you well in the years to come.
This will change if there's anything else you really want to do with it (ex: Photoshop/Illustrator, gaming, storing lots and lots of photos) so if you're into any of that let me know and I'll tailor the above specs to it.
Thank you for the insightful comment! I feel like a hybrid between you and Samuel Armstrong (guy who commented above), since my Java experience is due to OCC. It was a blast! To make sure front-end isn't what I wanted, I also took Colt Steele's front-end course on UDemy. Not too much of a blast there for me. As for Reddit, I, too, lurked adamantly in search of any/all advice on Grand Circus. After about six months of researching, going to the info session, and saving up, I told myself that enough is enough and applied. I've recently gotten accepted and am watching MIT Java courses to prepare for the prework. Please keep us updated on your job prospects after you complete the course!
PS: what was the most challenging part of the prework? What material did it cover?
I´d love to join a bootcamp but its just too expensive considering that there are all these free or cheap resources online. However, it would be totally awesome to have a small group of like-minded people studying together like in a bootcamp, but selforganized and without the huge financial investment. Some benefits of the coding bootcamp would still apply - like an environment that holds you accountable, a fixed schedule and the possibility of doing group projects. Love you mayuko!
I went to App Academy's pre-bootcamp, which taught me the essentials to ace bootcamp entrance tech interviews. Afterwards, I went to Full Stack Academy. App Academy takes a % of your salary for x amount of months. Full Stack's Grace Hopper program had a tuition deferment model, charging increments totalling around $18K after you get a job. Results definitely depend on the individual. Coming out of the bootcamps, some of my classmates have jobs at JP Morgan, Etsy, Amex, etc... All in all, FS Academy provided quality education. I do agree that there is less emphasis in actual comp sci.
Thanks a lot for this. I really appreciate the information. I am going to start a coding Boot Camp for UCF here in Florida that will last 24 weeks. Wish me luck!
Heyy benjamin! I’m starting UCF bootcamp as well for 24 weeks. When are you starting? I’m also doing bachelors at UCF
Good luck 🙏♥️
Narmeen Siddiqui good luck
I am in Hack Reactor right now. Just 1 week in I've learned a ton.
William Cory how is it going for u now?
William Cory is bootcamp a bad idea for someone working full time?
I was joined to a bootcamp after applying at my current company. Good thing they offer that, for I think I need to learn more about the best practices in programming and software engineering. That's mostly what they teach us, because every client or business differ from each other. In the acadeem, I used to work on my own and be a visionary of the product I am dealing with, but I'm sure I lack a lot. The bootcamps creates an atmosphere of confidence to starters in the industry. ☺
I'm currently going to a coding bootcamp in Australia that goes for 25 weeks and it's seriously amazing! It is intense but so captivating, if any of you guys are in Australia you should check out coder academy! The best part is I get placed in an internship for the last month of the course which will most probably help with lading the first job
Just started going to Nashville Software School. Full stack year long camp. It's a non profit so the price was very reasonable for a year's worth of instruction. They have a 6 month day program, and a 12 month night program. I personally do better in a classroom surrounded by help, but can see why people don't choose to go, and stick with independently training themselves. School has a good rep, and a very high success rate. Plus they host a lot of local meetups, and are partnered with a lot of opportunity. I was skeptical about it at first, but I knew I wanted to go to school again. Really didn't want to spend 4 years on a degree having to take loans out for classes that had nothing to do with coding. This was pretty much my only other option out here in Nashville if I wanted an actual classroom. I just started a couple weeks ago so I cant speak on the full experience yet, but from what I've seen so far I think I made the right choice. While paying to learn at a school isn't for everyone i do believe the networking, and resources you can get with programs like this are valuable. You could definitely network, and find resources without attending, but being someone who's pretty antisocial, and only hangs out with my partner and our kid I think I'm being pushed to get this done. Excited for the next year, and hoping this leads to me finally having a career instead of a job. Anyone else go here, or to another boot camp that has some advice, or experiences to share?
did it work out for you?
A bootcamp most definitely can NOT replace a CS degree, however, you will understand how to use a specific framework that the market currently demands.
Sometimes it's not about time, but more so money. Yes, maybe 4 years at a university prepares you better, but it's also an order of magnitude more expensive so the investment is much greater. There's no secret sauce that magically gives you a job. If you understand the fundamentals of coding and are willing put in long hours to circumvent the cost of college, do projects and create a portfolio, you'll get a job.
Even UC Berkeley starts their coding bootcamp program right now. Whether it's worth go to boot camp vs traditional 4 years, coding bootcamp is surely the best method of raising money for the school for sure.
Starting a full stack bootcamp in June. I already have a 4 yr degree in Finance/Economics and I have been doing quite a bit of SQL in my current job for the metrics we have. I want to make a career switch to something im a bit more passionate about and the bootcamp in my area is a viable option to build a portfolio to compliment some of the experience I have. The only down side for those on the struggle bus with money is that my program costed me around $8500 upfront and its a 24 week program but there are about 30+ companies (in my area) affiliated that hire their grads.
Same!
I’m in the prep course for Thinkful’s engineering immersion boot camp. I’ve yet to commit to the full-time program as I have to still pass a tech eval, but the program seems to have a great track record. They publicly display their stats and guarantee you a job within 6 months of graduation or you get your money back. The best part is it’s online with video based mentoring sessions from actual devs in the industry; pretty cool for people like me living in rural areas.
Anyone here attend a boot camp with Thinkful?
Terrance Corley I'm thinking about getting into thinkful as well. are you based in san diego?
have you enrolled yet?
bluebirdy9385 Hey! Yeah, I started the full-time program a few weeks ago. I live in a nearby city but all the meet ups/events I attend will be in San Diego. Feel free to ask me any questions you may have, just might be a little while before I respond-loads of work to do haha.
Terrance Corley haha thanks I really appreciate it. is there a way to PM you? I won't be doing coding until the end of this year. Good luck on your program
I am currently in the part-time Flex bootcamp.
Currently in a bootcamp(end of term1) for Ruby,Rails, HTML, CSS, Javascript, React and NodeJS, GIT, Github and some other technologies and i'm enjoying it fully! The campus organises excursions to big companies (Like Atlassian!) in the area to meet the CEO's and the hiring agents for those companies and giving advice on getting a job. Also at the end of our 3rd term we get an internship at a company which often ends up in a position at that company according to previous cohorts.
I guess it depends on what bootcamp you go to and how long it goes for, ours is only 6 months.
Although I will only graduate my bootcamp with a diploma in IT i don't want to stop with the technologies we study my first love was C# !
I totally recommend going to a bootcamp because depending which one you go to you can end up with the same or even more connections in the industry.
Just a heads up though bootcamps aren't for everyone if you don't love to code you will fail or drop out we've already lost 3 people out of 30.
Have you applied for a job?
I'm actually going to a coding bootcamp this summer. I've also been practicing Javascript and C++ on the side so that way I can get a head start on the class. Can't wait!
How has it been so far.
I went to a boot camp for the mean stack. I still don't have a job 2 years later in that time I've also furthered my skills. I can use the entire Adobe suite, code at a basic level in php, mysqli, js ,html, css, c#. Maybe it's where I live in FL by Gainesville. I'd say overall if you like to learn new skills go, if you're looking for a job don't go. save thousands and just do some udemy courses and make things for your portfolio.
I just went to a part time boot camp. By the time I graduate, there is only 30 out 50 left in my cohort. I would have to say being part time makes it rough at times as it takes a lot of work and time. The TA there are helpful but most of them can only help you so much as they usually have a full-time job in the industry as well. To sum it up, I would say find your style of coding, learn how to find answers that are "helpful" and do not think boot camp as a shortcut to what you wanna do.
Well am graduating from CodeFellows (based out of Seattle) next week in advance full-stack JavaScript with react, redux and node.js. Lots of work and 18 weeks long. Can’t wait to hit the ground running!
Once you got in as a software engineering gig, you have to learn new things (tech, methods, languages) so much faster than what the coding boot camp training. If you want to stay relevant in the field. (Software engineer since 2006)
I think bootcamps should be used as supplementary to one's overall education/transition into SE. I began learning on my own just to see if I had an interest/competency in it. I still am learning on my own as well as studying towards my MCSA/MCSE certifications. We live during a wonderful time in human history where a college education in SE can be closely replicated. Many universities are transparent and consistent with their course catalogues and course content, and even better is that most university bookstores are open to the public. More than once I have spent a Saturday at a campus bookstore looking through what textbooks they have while simultaneously looking up reviews on my phone. Coupled with MOOCs, YT, and bootcamps, it's a solid workaround. Going tens of thousands of dollars into debt for a CS degree, especially if you have a Bachelor's or higher in something else, is unnecessary and unattractive if you have access to a university bookstore and their CS course catalogue.
I am planning on attending Hack Reactor in SF early 2019. Studying and making sure I safe enough money, cheers!
Johnathan Blackburn would u say it's better to go to Hack Reactor than Codify Academy? Both are in SF but codify is about half the price. I'm still looking around for my best option
I was gonna ask the same thing as Jonathan
Johnathan I might be joining you or if not hack reactor another bootcamp , Let me know how it goes Good luck!
How did it go man?
If you're unmotivated then bootcamps are for you. Otherwise there are so many free and low cost options out there. Freecodecamp is one i recommend and then use Facebook Meetup to Meetup with local coders. Just remember that whatever path you take ALWAYS be coding. I can't stress this enough.... ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS build projects upload to GitHub and contribute to open source code...no matter how stupid or lame the project sound. Use it as your basis for interviews. I know a lot of people looking to get into software engineer from studying STEM (I came from 2 years of med school) and think they know their shit when reading and understanding from a video or book but trust me when i say you don't know anything unless you code and practice. It's not like any STEM courses...it's not about memorization but more like a sport. You can watch how to play tennis all day and take notes all you want but you know nothing about tennis until you step on the court and practice.
*HEART*
I think code bootcamps even an average person had made it for 5 or 10 times but for without passion and attitude, still cannot do or produce good in it. But for a person only tried once a bootcamp but with a burning passion and dedication for tech future job will trascend the challenge. Pay attention to the founders of these top successful bootcamps, majority of them are self taught, they dont even a good college degree and many had not gone thru college degree but they created such tech industry with a respected name. They made something from nothing, with their best capital: *passion and dedication!*
In Portugal, we have another one. Eddisrupt Coding Bootcamp. If the person is a student or unemployed the course is only 1100€.
To me i still choose University , not only that you can get friends and connection but also you social skill. Working on SE is not all about coding, youll have to work together with your co workers. Plus i dont know about other Universities, atleast mine only study for 3 years , while the last ussualy learn about real-life problems through internships. So when you graduate , youll have 1 year of working experience
Thank you for talking about this! Sadly, this is not a big concept in Mexico. There was once a Kodea in the capital but it's still a distance from here and I just found out they've closed their doors.
There are some popping up in Mexico now, especially with the deportation scares, but if there aren't any near you, try to learn online.
Software “engineers” have 4 year degrees. The engineer title gets thrown around way too much. Software developer is a more accurate title.
Well, the more accurate title is the title that your employer puts on your paystub as they have hired you and pay you to do a very specific role :)
Wrong. Computer science is a "4 year degree". Software engineers are just people who build software.
It’s the companies that throw that term around, honestly. They want everyone they hire to look and feel cool.
It has to do with your skills, if you are doing what a software engineer is supposed to do then you are one, it's a job title not a degree.
@Winston Mcgee No, you clearly misunderstood. Software engineers is nothing but a job title. It is not a 4 year degree (not commonly at least, there may be some unknown colleges that give out 4 year software engineers degrees). Scrum/Agile/Waterfall are just methodologies used to meet business requirements. Some bootcamps actually DO teach them, by the way. And they certainly dont teach them with a computer science degree. Its more of a business management thing.
It’s hard to be a software engineer if you don’t have experience. I recommend every freshman in college find a startup in the college and intern there. Right now I am interning in a startup and it taught me so much about ionic 2, angular Js for web app development
I'm in the ironhack bootcamp in Mexico City, and it's been one of my best experiances. I'm only 19 years old.
Yay! Great timing!
Asmr Ilyn i was in ironhack Barcelona and it sure was amazing best months of my life
Asmr Ilyn hola code with Lenni :)
Asmr Ilyn teach me spanish :-)
Hola Asmr! Qur tal tu experiencia en IronHack, conseguiste empleo al finalizar?
My experience wasn't so great at a small bootcamp that costs about $6000. I decided to go to Hackbright and much happier there.
You really have to be selective with the bootcamp. Hackbright has a great reputation.
Serena, may I ask why you weren't happy about your first bootcamp?
Many bootcamps are sleezy. Flatiron school was sued by NY state attorney general for lying about their job outcomes.
I’m excited to watch! I want to learn how to code
Hey, are you still interested in learning how to code?
My experience with programming bootcamps has been great, but I think the city in which you do it and try to find a job in will ultimately have the greatest bearing on landing the first job. In Singapore, for example, it's (still) quite common for most bootcamp grads to be hired as a junior software engineer within 3-4 months of graduating! But like you said, it's harder for that to happen in the Bay Area.
In case anyone's interested to read a full review of the bootcamp I went to (General Assembly in Singapore), here's the blog post I wrote - www.nickang.com/general-assembly-singapore-review/
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on programming bootcamps Mayuko! I believe they're a great way to get started in tech. It's what I did 1+ years ago, and it's one of the best things I've done so far :)
Intriguing. Yeah I'm d!cking around with apps on my smartphone for html, css, and Javascript. Just the basics.
There's a course on Udemy by colt steele wrapping all front end stuff cost 15$ or something. It will worth checking it out as it is renewed recently lol...
Actually, most US universities have some places called “career center”. They offer resume examples, correct your resumes, and available for scheduling fake interview appointments (they will pretend like the recruiters and ask you possibly questions in real interview). But, the main reason that bootcamp career services are better because they are forced to help you get jobs in order to have their tuition money.
Ive been denied by bootcamp they are very selective and honestly coding isnt hard to me i grew up loving math so i pick it up quickly but i bombed the interview cause i have anxiety. Definitely need alot of confidence in the interviews.
Hey Mayuko, congrats on getting a sponsor for the video! Could you do a video on how life long learning and self teaching is huge part of the software development industry? I'm particularly interested in what it takes for an IOS programmer to stay up to date on all the latest technology.
Enjoyed it, good info, thanks, keep up & I always love that "Byyyee" in the end 😍
I love your hair! So pretty :) Ok, now that that's out of the way, we have a coding bootcamp here in Atlanta. Tuition costs $14,000. Honestly, that seems ridiculous to me. Salaries here aren't even as high as they are in the bay area. But I'm really struggling to learn on my own, so I may not have any other choice!
14k is significantly lower than college. If you land a job that even pays 50k it's a worthwhile investment.
Alec Sixilli I understand that, but why go into debt to get a $50k job when I can self teach for free and land the same job?
@@JeremyGalloway Then do it lol The one I went through was a one on one mentorship. It was a great opportunity and I learned incredibly fast.
There is an App Academy in New York that I plan to apply to soon! Go programming!
congrats for 1 lakh sub !
I am 70 years old and have been through some interviews
and I abhor all interviewers
I don't believe that interviews should ever be that form of hiring
interviewers are ruthless & very hateful
because the interviewee come with their best intentions
and the #1 thing the interviewer can simply say is
WE have many more interviews to go and WE'll call you once WE
have done our due diligence!!!
in the mean time, the interviewee still doesn't have a job
and that was a part of the understood part of
taking a very sophisticated curriculum course
was to get hired before graduating
that has happened to me way more than once
and that is very wrong
there seriously need to be some type hiring Justice in being told
promises just to learn and then graduate with high honors
regardless of age
I'm just saying
graduating with high honors needs and must be a successful hiring
PROMISE KEPT
Your hair looks so fluffy
I think you dedicated more time to your sponsored content than to actual content...
Loved your videos. Keep producing more and more content and just for your style you'll end up being super famous. Keep creating! :)
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you, bootcamps are not a sustainable way to educate competent software engineers.
Currently, the market is being flooded by bootcamp grads and entry level positions are becoming more and more difficult to acquire with no previous experience or college education. Further, most bootcamps do not teach fundamental computer science, the building blocks of software engineering. Like you said, they really only teach one framework and one set of skills (web, ruby on rails, etc). What will happen when React goes out of style? When ruby on rails goes out of style? All those bootcamp grades will be out of luck because they don't poses the fundamental skills taught in a traditional 4 year degrees. All they know is some web framework.
You even say it yourself, getting that first job is extremely difficult for bootcamp grads; they do not have the skills needed to interview well, boot camp certificates are not accredited, and someone with a traditional 4 year degree in computer science will be hired more often then someone without that degree.
To anyone reading this that is considering a bootcamp, you are much better off going and getting a degree to enter the software field. It is far more sustainable, provides you the building blocks of computer science, and will be much better for you in the long run.
Hey gotta disagree. While being in a good bootcamp program is great, you have to be motivated as an individual to really want to succeed in the bootcamp and obtain a career in the tech space. It takes a lot of dedication and effort. These programs tend to weed out lazy people who think this is an easy way to get a solid job; it is absolutely not easy. I know some bootcamp grads who are doing well for themselves now working as software engineers. Its a great way to stream line entry into the tech space. I also know another guy who studied Finance but went back to school at 24 to get a CS degree and also loves it. It just depends on the person. People have different motivations and don't have the time to spend 4 years again in college to get a CS degree -- not to mention the price. I would say assess all options before dropping money and committing your time to school or bootcamp. If someone wants to learn CS fundamentals, there are other alternatives to school and free resources, such as this (github.com/ossu/computer-science). As for job availability, there will always be jobs in software, software is literally eating the world as Marc Andreesseen always says -- many industries are being disrupted and now require these software folks these days which probably would not even consider having even 1 software person a decade ago. If you graduated with lets say, a Psychology degree and you want to do something else. Bootcamp is a pretty solid option. And for those of you considering it, it is not a regular college class. You have to commit your time to it whether 3 months or 6 months long. Do your research on bootcamps too, some of them are useless. Also, make sure to have some dedication to life long learning of the craft of software. As numerous individuals have said throughout history, "life short, craft long, opportunity fleeting, judgement difficult". Solid read too here, norvig.com/21-days.html
Amen.
Exactly thought the same. Also, the term software engineer is way overused. Many who call themselves software engineers are simply still programmers.
Yeah, I absolutely agree. I really hate it when people say that there are just so many opportunities for software engineers that the industry is desperate for more. Yeah, but now there are so many people who want to do CS that entry level positions are harder to find, and companies only want junior and senior positions. If you do manage to find an entry level position, 99% of the time they treat you like a monkey and basically give you the dirty work that no one wants to do. I know I’m being harsh, but I’m just tired of people getting confused when they hear I don’t have an entry level job yet as a software engineer. @John McBride What are your thoughts on those people?
Lambda school, 6 month course. Teaches C++, javascript and Python :)
I'm at a 16 week coding boot camp in Glasgow, Scotland. I feel like I've learned so much but the pace it goes at is so intense, and I am worried about going against people with CS degrees to get a job. I've got 3 weeks to go so fingers crossed I manage to get a job after!
How did it go?
If you’re from South Africa. Check out CodeX, WeThinkCode and iXperience😀
Programming be it an IT or CS is an actual job. Not much theoretical compared to Law or Doctorate. In computer programming, the significance of the job is in the actuality and what you can produce not much on what you learned in theoretical fashion. Yeah, theoretically bookish it can be for college degrees but still the fight is generally in actualization. In bootcamps they go directly on what is necessary and attack it(provided the learner had prerequisite passion and dedication). I may refer it to as if doing what is more relevant and necessary. But still in the job world it doesnt pay attention as to what info you learned but what can you do that adds up value. In the end they are all both programmers: *one is from a so called HackReactor and the other one from University of Anything.*
Thank you and keep uploading these helpful videos :)
I learnt coding from coding bootcamps, too.
Could you please do a video explaining income as a software engineer and show actual numbers?
Yearly salary, health benefits, retirement savings, etc. Not too intrusive, but I'd like a real life tangible account of a software engineer's finances. Not a random and averaged figure posted on a college's website telling you how much you'll make if you graduate from them. (Probably biased, unreal, and outdated data)
I think of doing it every now and then as I’m a student in CS and I’m constantly annoyed with doing useless classes such as English, biology and chem
Ill do it if you do it ?
I am doing the freecodecamp courses where the web development is taught easy and you can learn new things. Good for people who don't have any prior knowledge on it.
just to piggyback off the AR app--what do you think is the future of gaming Mayuko? have you heard of Google's recent endeavor into gaming called "Stadia?" do U think this will actually be successful? or it will still fail relatively to bring as much as do the Japanese companies like Nintendo or Squaresoft travelling much farther into gaming than any company in America has truthfully ever done.
I think I'm going to try going to a bootcamp called PunchCode here in Las Vegas in the spring. Hopefully all works out!
Как успехи?
Ooo love your new 💇
I did a part time coding class so let me see whether I had the grit to get thru the program before i quit my job. It was really hard handling day job and the coursework. I was glad I was able to find out I wasn't cut out for it before quitting my job.
Plus learning about sprints made me realize I preferred my no OT lifestyle already.
The course did lead me to starting my website again.
So even if ppl learn they aren't cut out or too old to change vocations there is other web work like digital sales seo and lead generation also needed in todays latest skill sets
I went to a boot camp and severely regret it. Maybe if you have a background in coding already then it might be a good idea, but even then it's way too expensive. Just do the free coding bootcamp online or take some codemy courses. Do not waste a s*** ton of money on a coding bootcamp.
waited sooooo long for you to update your new episode
Mayuko, Thank you for posting your stories. They have been very helpful! I am wrestling with the idea of going back to school so I can get some type of programming job. I haven't decided on what specific job yet, but I know I want it to be computer science related. I have a bachelors in mechanical engineering and am currently working a full time job. Would getting an online masters degree in computer science be sufficient for a programming job or would I be better off getting my bachelors in computer science or going to coding boot camp?
I love this girl
That’s nice to learning
Steve Wozniaks has his own boot camp which are teaming up with the Art Institutes