Why are British place names so hard to pronounce? American Reacts
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2022
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About JT Reacts:
Hey I'm JT Kelly! Im just some youtuber from a small town in Kentucky who makes reaction videos, vlogs, pranks, fun challenges and a whole lot more! The main purpose of this channel is to Spread love and happiness throughout the world! So if you want to have a good laugh and listen to my country accent everyday Subscribe and watch my weird life unfold! - Розваги
I'd highly recommend watching more of Jay Foreman's Map Men and Unfinished London series - they're really funny and interesting.
Agreed, randomly I was watching unfinished London again this morning
Agreed
I third this
Map men is interesting and educational
Yep, even as a native Brit I learn a lot from his videos.
Get this tattooed down your arm Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch 😂
Jay Foreman’s videos are fantastic and so well made. Got a good collection of more vids to react to there.
What are you doing with your Right hand at this moment, 🤔 😂.
When you come to the UK, you MUST come to visit us in the Lake District. I want to see you say our town name without sniggering. It is called Cockermouth. Stop it, JT. No smirking either.
Cockermouth is a lovely place!
@@iantaylor1524 Thanks. Yes it is - but not when it floods !
All we have here in Sussex is Dicking, Upper Dicking, Lower Dicking and the Dicking Inn in Dicking. We're far far too posh down here to have Cockermouth😅
@@susangarvey9415 epic
@@susangarvey9415 I am a Sussex lad and know them well. The weirdest thing is that Upper Dicker is lower than Lower Dicker !
Map Men and Jay Foreman especially are very funny. You'll love Jay's London series.
JT and Map Men (men men men men) in one video? Yay!
PS - I've lived in the UK my whole life, and still get caught out by some of these. For example: it was only last week I discovered that 'Dover' is correctly pronounced 'Thaffouair', and 'Hartlepool' is 'Mooshyblip'...
😁
don't confuse him anymore lol
The Welsh place name you had in the beginning on the screen, we generally just pronounce it as Llan-Fair PG for short. Btw, it is so long that at the local train station, the signage literally stretches from one end of the platform to the other!! To wind up your fellow Americans, your British-themed tattoo should be the name of this village in Anglesey, Wales - Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
In the video, they said the Romans didn't stay long. BS!! They were here for approximately 400 years!!
Put the name on one arm, and the translation on the other arm!
@@jackcarter5101 Great idea
3 lions. Welsh are Welsh. 😂
Sorry I’m just joking! But funny idea ❤️
The Romans were here 465 years. But I'm pretty sure the native British population held the belief until around 500AD that they were still citizens of the Empire.
@@iantaylor1524 LOL
I think the tattoo should be a corgi with a crown on holding the Union Jack 🇬🇧 ❤
JT releasing a video as Lizzie's body heads to Windsor....how poetic!
Exactly what I thought
windsor was so packed today, i've never seen that many people in one place
So what, life goes on elsewhere in the world
@@mark0511 and to match your energy.....who gives a flying fk about the rest of the world, we have our own shit to deal with. 🤦🏼♀️
@@CyanideSunshines well don't watch videos that are made by someone from a different country if you're that bloody offended. 🙄🤪
There was a few other reasons, the biggest reason for their present spellings was the invention of the printing press. Regardless of what they said, the people doing the important writing, maps, books etc, could indeed very much read and write, also replacing a sign didn't require the person doing so to be able to read, they just had to transcribe.
It was because of the printing press, they requirement of books being produced by being drawn and written by one person, started to die out, as it was quicker (and cheaper) to produce literature using the printing press, unfortunately this started to see a changing in the quality of the work produced. Letters started to get swapped with another letter if it looked the similar to another, as sometimes they didn't have that letter or they simply made a mistake, until eventually we ended up with the current settling on the current alphabet and vowels, which ended up with a lot of letters becoming defunct.
Problem with letters becoming defunct, is you have to replace them with something, which is what ended up happening with many. Though of course, they might have changed the spellings to reflect the new official alphabet, it didn't change the pronunciation, for example, the word 'the' was previously spelled 'ye', however as said, both spellings are pronounced exactly the same way. Ye is spelled using the letter ' 'þorn' (Thorn), any word or name or word spelled with 'th' or 'dh' before the new alphabet, was originally spelled with the þorn and any words or names after, use it's pronunciations. There's many other letters defunct and given replacements, but their pronunciations remain, my last example of such is 'yogh', an example of is the name Menzies, pronounced Mingiss.
In short, the current alphabet has caused lots of problems with its replacement spellings, as the pronunciations don't always match the spelling.
“I’m glad America ain’t like this.”
Arkansas exists
And Connecticut 🤯😆
and Illinois
@@Llama_charmer And what about 'Des Moines' pronounced 'Day Moyne' and 'Des Plains' pronounced exactly as it is spelt!
Arkansas is a Native American name not English, the state was named after the Native American tribe , who settled the state.
@@Llama_charmer Illnois is one of the US states that is named after the Native American tribe , who settled the state.
Loved your addition on how American English is made. Definitely laughed out loud to that one 🤣🤣
1:22 Leominster is 'LEMSTER', Bicester is 'BISTER', Godmanchester is 'GUMSTER', Loughborough is 'LUFFBURRA', Keighley is 'KEETHLEE'. More examples - Ulgham is 'UFFAM', Happisburgh is 'HAYZBURRA', Milngavie is 'MULGUY', and Woolfardisworthy is 'WOOLZERY'.
Edinburgh = "Edin-bruh"
Actually, Godmanchester is pronounced exactly as it's spelled. The "Gumster" pronounciation seems to have been popularised by a guide book that was written using inaccurate sources
@@steampunklemur Only because the traditional pronunciation of GUMSTER has been lost in translation down the years. Saying that, it wouldn't surprise me if people one day start calling Leicester LEE-SESTER, sadly.
And Slaithwaite is "SLAWIT".
Milngavie is Mow-guy.
Love Jay Foreman's videos, such high production quality. You definitely need to do more
JT, where I live in Lancashire is the only town in the U.K. that's named after a pub. The reason for this is because when the railway company was laying the tracks to connect one side of England to the other in the late 19th Century there was already a town with exactly the same name in Yorkshire ( Marsden ) and they adopted the name of our local pub to put on the signpost at our local railway station rather than to create confusion between the two different stations on the same line. The pub is called the Lord Nelson hence the name of the town which is now called Nelson.
Another confusingly named town for you to try to pronounce is Rawtenstall which lies between where I live and the nearest big city, Manchester. It isn't pronounced as you probably think it should be - its correct pronunciation is Rottenstall. 👍😁👍
one of my favourites is in scotland Kirkcudbright iirc pronounced kakoobry love your videos JT peace
This was great, Jay Foreman's videos are genius and reaally funny. You should definitely react to some of their other videos.
I met Jay Foreman earlier this year when he was a guest at a wedding. Lovely guy! Took the obligatory selfie! Great reactions JT. Keep them coming!
As a Mancunian (manchester) living in Cornwall (not Cornish) I love your channel and videos. Thank you
You should deffinately react to Jay Foreman's map men and unfinished london video, not only do they follow so closely to what your channel is about, I think you'll just have a fun time watching them
I'm from Doncaster which means water fort
Don is celtic for water river
Caster is roman for walled city or Fort
Don is not Celtic for anything, there is no such thing as Celtic in that sense.
Don is the name of the River that runs through Doncaster and a fort was built on it, hence the name Doncaster
@@Penddraig7 that's where you are googley wrong
In other words....Google it!!!
@@dirtbikerman1000 no that’s your problem, you googled it, lol, you literally said Don is Celtic, that tells me everything I need to know
A good UK themed tattoo would be the Edinburgh Military Tattoo, but the bloody pipers might keep you awake all night
Why have awful bagpipes or military rubbish on your body?
Brilliant fun and informative video as always, JT.
I'm British and I find our language a constant source of fascination, amusement and confusion!
Don't ever worry that you can't pronounce British place names correctly, neither can we....😂
We have Leominster just up the road from us. Can always spot the new people to the area (it's pronounced Lemster) 😅
The Map Men ads at the end are the only ads I don’t begrudge watching 😋
The village of Ham is next to the town of Sandwich.
Nice 🥪
🐷🐷🍞🍞
Yay! You've discovered Map Men - probably from all the recommendations in your comments. You should do more of them in the future. I would recommend watching Jay's product placement sketches (even if you don't react to them) they're quite hilarious! He's actually a comedian. I first saw him supporting another comedian called Dave Gorman on stage and then discovered he had a youtube channel!
Please react to 'Queen's coffin enters Westminster Abbey'. Make sure it is that exact titled video though, around 17 mins long. I can't post the link because apparently you are not allowed... See if you can keep your emotions in check. She wasn't just the Queen of England, she was The Queen.
From my local area in bonny Scotland: Alloa (Ah-low-ah), Tillicoultry (Tilli-cool-tray), Coalsnaughton (Cul-snot-on), our county name Clackmannanshire. Over the border in Fife we have Culross - Coo-riss. Another good Fife one is Anstruther, or as the locals call it, An-ster. Then of course we have our much mispronounced capital city: Edinburgh, not Edinburg but Edin-burra. Mousehole in Cornwall is my favourite though. A lot of Scottish names have their roots in Gaelic (and in my local area also Welsh) but were Anglicised when they were written down for map making purposes. It's quite fascinating to look at early maps and see how the mapmaker would attempt to record a place name with phonetic spelling. By the way my county name is from the Gaelic -Siorrachd Chlach Mhannainn or Sheriffdom of the Stone of Manau, after a stone which was left here by the sea god Manau.
That was funny! Thanks. I remember years ago when myself (South African ex-pat) and hubby (Englishman) moved to Inverness in the Scottish Highlands for his job. We were looking at rental properties in various places around Inverness and went to look at a house on the Black Isle. Told one of our colleagues that we loved the house in a little village called Avoch, which we prounounced Av-ock, and the guy just cracked up laughing. Apparently, the locals pronounced it 'Och'.
I am glad you have discovered the Map Men. They are great fun.
Great reaction, loved seeing your interest in the video! I can definitely recommend you to watch other Jay Foreman videos, they are brilliant!
Try and remember that unlike the USA place names in the Uk have been around for several hundred even thousands of years, and more than a few hundred years ago, the English spoken back then would not be understandable today, If you went back i time it would be like listening to a foreign language.
There are a lot of videos on youtube about the subject and how far back you could go in years and still be understood.
JT will have a hard time even pronouncing town and city names in the New England area of the US, as some of pronounced the same way they are in England and some of pronounced different then they are in England.
Your phone game was a perfect way to describe the way the pronunciation of place names have changed through the centuries, JT. As always, God bless from an English Auzie.
I love exceptions to rules...
For example: "i before e, except after c, or if it makes an "ay" sound, as in weigh.... but.... not weird, or ancient.... for some reason"
I grew up in a place called Alcester (pronounced Al-sta) that got called All- cess- tar all the time - even by the English - it was next to a place called Coughton - pronounced co-tun, not coff-town or cow-ton as many visitors liked to call it. This was in Warwickshire in the Middle of England - heavily influenced by the Romans. Now I live in Devon, in the West of England - place names are even more interesting with the Celtic and Roman mix. I still get many of the areas wrong (place called Bovey Tracy just up the road - best ask a local about that one)
Alot of place names come from combinations of languages gradually acquired from countries who conquered the UK through history: the Anglo Saxons(German), the Vikings (Danish), Normans (French), Latin through Church writings, Greek through science. (And now American TV)
They are spoken in the original way, or a different way. Eg. Chester (Town in northern England) comes from Caester, the Roman/Latin name for Camp or Fort. -by on the end of a word is from the Viking for settlement. -Bury comes from Byrig, German/Anglo Saxon for fortified place, -wic or wick being Anglo Saxon for settlement. Towns and Villages ; hamm (a different way of spelling of ham) enclosure within the bend of a river'. Southhampton Buckingham ; hurst. wooden hill. Staplehurst. Anglo-Saxons began a trend of naming places with words ending with 'ing', 'ham', 'ley', 'hurst', 'stead', 'wick', 'ton', 'ford', 'win' and 'worth'. Alot of places have the ancient Landowner's name included, names like Woking, Wokingham and Wokefield. All of these names were dedicated to a man known as Wocc.
Shire means County in Anglo-Saxon. Then there are words in any of those languages describing places, like hill, water, black, white, tree, lake etc. That's without thinking about Welsh, Cornish, Gaelic languages that all originate from the original Celtic settlers. So a right mess. We are all immigrants making racism even madder.
But American names have similar beginnings: Boulder, Rapid City etc but are newer and in one language (or more near the border with Mexico or on Native American land.
Lol telephone game that's the best one yet love this man lol chinese whispers ya mean xxxxx
And so begins the Map Men/Jay Foreman binging phase of JT Reacts.
Trust me, no one will mind. Pretty much all of their videos are as equally interesting and entertaining as this one.
I love how you describe the way Americans speak English! You're so funny!🤣🤣
There's a small town near the Lancashire/Yorkshire border called Barnoldswick (Old Norse: Bernulfesuuic, meaning the farmstead of a guy called Beornwulf/Bjornulfr); non-locals say it as it is written: Barn-olds-wick, locals call it Barlick.
Just over the border, I once saw a story about Todmorden on the national news. You could tell the reporter wasn't local when she said Tod-MORE-dun instead of TOD-muh-din. And then there's Mytholmroyd (actually fairly straightforward, but it starts My, not Myth).
In Northamptonshire, as well as Towcester, we also have Cogenhoe (which is pronounced Cook-no) and the River Nene (pronounced Nen, not Neen!)
the village igrew up in was originally 2 seperate villages, Stow and Quy somewhere in the distant past they joined up becoming Stow -Cum-Quy some people pronounce Quy they same as Key, where i now live in cumbria there is as small town near me called Aspatria, but the locals to there pronounce it as pa tree, i still have not worked it after 20 years :) :)
Historically tricky place names tend to be in older English and have retained their Older pronunciations. The US founders borrowed a lot of UK towns and city names. For eg, York in England, became New York, Boston, Birmingham, Manchester, Newark, Hampshire, New England….
But was it not originally duct trading companies that owned what would become latter when it cam under British control what we call New York Today. If so what was the original name of the city?
We have a place in Kent called Bearsted. The Maidstone natives (nearest town to it) call it Bear-sted but most other people in Kent refer to it as Beer-sted or even Beer-stid. If the locals & natives struggle with these names, goodness only knows what visitors & immigrants make of it all!!
We have a place here in the West Midlands near Walsall called Caldmore pronounced "karma" by West Midlanders
My personal pet peeve is Weston-super-mare, which is apparently a quite formidable horse rather than a settlement above the sea. Or so i've heard.
Groan 😁
Neigh, lad, that's a foal error!
Here in Norway we still use "by" for town/city!
To any visitors to the UK, don;t worry about getting pronounciations wrong. Hell, I am born and bred here in the UK and even I did not know how to pronounce Frome.
Exactly! Some things that Americans routinely say 'wrongly' like pronouncing '-ham' at the end '-ham' instead of '-um' or '-cester' as '-cester' instead of '-ster' we know because we hear them before we know how to spell them. And we sometimes struggle to spell them. But small places with odd pronunciations often everybody but the locals get them wrong. I really enjoy the detective series 'Shetland' (set and filmed on the Shetland Islands) and the capital of the Shetland Islands is Lerwick. I've always called it Ler-wick until I heard a local on the programme recently call it "Lerrick". You live and learn.
You’re a very nice chap. Subbed.
Salisbury, is 1 of my favorites loads of people get that 1 wrong. Now 1 near where I live Atherstone so many people get this wrong. let me explain Salisbury people say "Salis bury" wrong pronounce it "Sols berry" say it quick. As for Atherstone this 1 is easy take off the last E and swop the O for an A "Ather stan". Go on JT give it a try. 👍👍👍👍👍
In Hertfordshire back when I was young Hertford was Art'fd Saint Albans (Written as St Albans) was pronounced Sen'albns.
Two in my home county of West Sussex for you: Bosham and Steyning. That’s ‘Bozzum’ and ‘Stening’.
Another Viking town city ending is Kjarr as my town is a old norse settlement readkjarr meaning place by the red marsh or as it's now known Redcar.
Couple of villages in Staffordshire that the rest of the uk get wrong.
Alrewas pronounced All re Woz.
Other
Brewood pronounced Brude.
English, Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Irish place names are hard to pronounce, as most are of great (1000 years +) antiquity. Some are Celtic, some Saxon, some Viking, others are corrupted Norman, others Gaelic. Most have been altered through generations, but yes, some are inexplicable. My favourite is Trottiscliffe, in Kent. I have been told, by several people, including lorry drivers, that it is pronounced: 'Trosely'. No, me neither. And I'm English.
Islay the Scottish isle is pronounced eye-la, actually is by far the biggest producers/distillers of whisky in the whole country even over the mainland.Historical seat being Finlaggan Castle is on the isle (whats left of it that it) of Clan Donald and for virtually (if not the entire duration of it being a free title) Lord of the Isles seat as well, as I believe now with the Wales title that entitles William to that title in Scotland I think as his father as Prince of Wales was Lord of the Isles but isn't any longer independent.
Grimsby is where Lowrance from Lost in the Pond is frome and that's maybe 50 miles from where I live :(
Eh?
My childhood home was on a road that connected two villages that had been absorbed into the nearby town. One was Bradley (Anglo Saxon in origin) and the other was Fixby (Viking in origin).
Interestingly Fixby was at the top of the hill and was richer than Bradley in the valley and that was 900 years after the Viking rule of this area.
Another village incorporated into the same town is spelt “Slaithwaite“ - the local pronunciation is “slau-it“ though the local news from Leeds (15 miles away) pronounces it “slaith-wait“ - regional pronunciations are very very local sometimes.
Near where I live there’s a little place called Ireshopeburn, in order to pronounce it correctly you have to leave out most of the letters in the middle. Also Barnard castle, the bbc is yet to get that one right, they need their eyes testing. It’s Barney.
The next town over from me is Ilkeston, pronounced by the locals as ill-son
I live in Northumberland (tho I lived most of my life south of the Thames River) and there's a little place called Cambois which is pronounced Camis 🙃
'Frome' comes from Welsh 'ffrwm' (?) (pron, froom) meaning turbulent or rushing - it's a river name.
As someone from Grimsby, I loved your reaction at the beginning 😂
Up the mariners!!!
@@edwardcooke5938 UTM⚫⚪🐟
@@callumking2152 should try and send him some GtFc stuff, make him an honoury fan
@@edwardcooke5938 Not going to lie, I've already thought about sending him 'How we were promoted' or something similar to try get him to react to it.
@@callumking2152 Absolutely fantastic,
Just to make it worse, the Frome mentioned in this video is about 40miles from me here in (Roman) Dorchester. But we also have the River Frome skirting around our town, pronounced Frohm. Go figure🤷🏻♀️
hey JT just an idea for your tattoo how about an flag incorporating the American flag on the left the Union Jack on the right and the welsh dragon overlaying the 2 half in the middle as you like the welsh people so much if you also figure out where you want the tattoo on your body and how big I can design it for you?
Take a look at 'LOST LETTERS OF THE ALPHABET: 9 letters we stopped using' by RobWords. Really interesting.
My town Bedworth is on the list.
Locally it's called Bedduth or Black Bedduth because it was a big coal mining area
My ex is from Keighley. It always pissed him off whenever I said "Kee-Lee." (on purpose!) 🤣🤣🤣🤣
You should react to Jay Foreman's channel it's got a lot of information about Britain and London
Great post.
I’m from a place in England called ‘Scunthorpe’ it’s always fun filling in online forms with filters, constantly thinks I’m swearing. I put the ‘c**t’ in Scunthorpe.
I live in an area Vikings and Romans settles, so we are near Chester, but up the road is a village called "MOELS" but it's pronounced Mells. The whole country is littered with them and even the British get them wrong unless they live close by.
JT, you do make me laugh.
Loughborough is a good source of amusement from tourists, in particular the Aussies.
For what it's worth, I'm with you on "Frome," that makes no sense.
I'm in the north-west of England, our party trick is to throw out great lumps from place-names (and words generally). Eg, I live near Barnoldswick, it's pronounced "Barlick." No, me neither. Also Oswaldtwistle, pronounced "Ozzletwizzle" (or locally, Ozzy).
The reason name places are difficult to pronounce, is because they actually were spelt that way originally , as the spelling changed the pronunciation didn't, locals simply weren't interested in doing so .
Ah interesting, I took the opposite from the video, that the pronunciations became lazy but people couldn't read or write, so the spellings remained the same.
@@JamesLMason My understanding is that it was a mixture of both. The people who lived there were illiterate, so they couldn't care less how the posh people wanted to spell their settlement's name and if it matched their pronunciation.
There are also cases (even today) where posh people and "commoners" pronounce the same place name differently. In the past, this may have resulted in the literate landowners wanting to update the spelling to their match pronunciation.
I think there are also cases where both the spelling and pronunciation changed, but in different directions!
Similar patterns can be seen across the whole of the English language, where only a subset of the population shaped the written form of the language, whereas the spoken form was shaped by everyone in many different ways.
I’ve never heard of wingstop in the UK 👀 lmfao.. the part he says “bruh look at that! those fries like form together to make a potato again” idk why but I probably found that funnier than it was meant to be 😭😂
Grimsby my home town that place is named after a Viking called Grim it's a great origin story for a two you should look it up so time
I live in Grimsby, UK. Some of the other place names are hard to pronounce. Well done for trying to pronounce that Welsh name ending with gogoch. I can't pronounce that
Grrrrrimmeeesbiyplp you mean? 😁
Lol, Frome, rhymes with room 😂 I live about half an hour away 👍🏻
One of the strangest village names near where I live here in Chesterfield is "Toadhole Furnace". Very strange.
Its not just we Brits. Baltimore Maryland is "Bummer Merlin" to some!
JT and Map Men? What a great combination.
I grew up just down the road from Frome and never questioned the pronunciation until today 😅 It is an odd one! Another that gets people is Cholmondeley in Cheshire. Pronounced "chum-lee"
Never heard of frome till today
Hi, Its generally worth watching the adverts on Jay Foreman videos, they are very creative and funny.
I thought I knew a lot by living in the county of Essex,where I live is about 10 miles from Braintree but didn't know it was called that in Roman times that's mad.
I've never known why but "that telephone game" you referred to at the end is called Chinese whispers over here.
And please, for the love of Lizzie watch 'The Queen's Funeral arrival at Westminster Abbey IN FULL'. Don't have to react just acknowledge you watched.
I'm from a village in Nottinghamshire called Averham. Pronounced 'Air-um'. Who ever heard of a silent V?!?
I have to admit, the first time I saw Frome in writing I pronounced it exactly the same as you did, JT. Only, it must rhyme with Rome and not spoon, surely?? Well, apparently it doesn't. So, yes, we definitely need more reactions like this one from you - only, things have been pretty sombre over here of late and we all need cheering up - you know that I know that you know what I mean, don't you?!! Notice these guys avoid Anglo-Saxon Norfolk though - where they make up the rules as they go along, apparently... I mean, I get the tendency to miss out whole strings of letters so that Wymondham becomes Windam - but how come they're all so reluctant to admit the same rules should apply to Fakenham...?
Norfolk has the vanishing village of Happisburgh. Pronounced, of course, 'Hazebruh'. It had a very interesting vicar in the 1920's by the way. Amongst other things, he was killed by a lion.
When you visit the UK, you’ll have to go to Trottiscliffe in Kent, pronounced Trosley.
You should react to the queens committal service .at St. George’s it’s where she was lowered into the royal vault where all the kings and queens are laid to rest
my town is Grimsby and the second I saw it my fight or flight senses were TINGLING XD
Even our tannoy announcements get mixed up. Here's an example of what went through my mind after an announcement while waiting for a train back to my hometown (i.e. village):
"You might call it 'Silby', but people live there want to go to 'Sileby'."
On a related note, it's interesting to be on a Welsh train in England, and see the Welsh names for English places which you'd would otherwise never see, for instance Manceinion/Manchester.
I've been to Frome countless times - but only now have I learned that it's pronounced Frume !! 👍
Live near frome! Try saying worle. That’s my family village.
You missed the anker comment after they said about not pronouncing the W 😂
Jay Foreman makes some amazing content. You gotta watch more.
Oh I dunno .. how about Leominster, Worcester, Gloucester in Mass., USA
Even us in the UK struggle with some of the names....lol.