My dad was a heavy industrial mechanic. I grew up listening to the exact same explanation you preached over the last half hour. When others disagreed he would just sit , listening and smile. The reason I like your videos is knowledge. Thanks.
Wow, that is the most thorough engine break-in process I've ever heard of. I trust you tons sir. Great video. If I ever have engine work done in the south east, I'll be sure to have it done with your business.
I sure wish I had one, but... My son-in-law is building a 383 for my newly purchased 55 Chevy Sedan delivery, and I can hardly wait to take back possession of it. Love how you break everything down so us unwashed can easily understand. Keep up the good work and remain safe. In the meantime I'm having to rely on my yamaha 650 classic. Too bad I live in Houston as I just began THAT adventure 2 years ago at the age of 67. True, it ain't a hog, but we do what we can.
I heard someone say the only reason the dealers tell you to not go over 3500 RPM is because they use a lighter weight oil in the engine for the break in period. That sound a little foolish to me. As you stated, we can ask 100 different people and get 100 different answers. Your explanation is very informative. excellent content, Thank you!
Great video. Couldn’t agree more. I have heard builders say that you can drive it like you stole it. Very scary. I always use 500 miles with new vehicles both cars bikes and snowmobiles. Go easy and up and down the rpm range nothing constant. My grandpa taught me that decades ago. 👍
if we are building a very high end full blueprint...big power engine....and there arent special piston coatings, etc....we will get the tune right asap then give it all shes got right out of the gate...but it depends on the intended purpose of the engine.
I enjoy your vids. I bought an 06 ultra Classic as my first Harley last year. After watching your video on cam chain adjusters, I bought the Screaming Eagle cam plate kit. You may have just saved me a ton of money, and my feelings for Harleys. Thanks so much for taking the time to educate us.
Like Mike said, we all spend a lot of time, money, and effort building and enjoying our motorcycles. I recently broke down my twin cam and sent pictures of two different sets of cylinders to a reputable bike builder in Arizona. Both sets were scored and I was surprised to learn that the cause was either poor break-in procedure or improper warm-up of the engine. I plan on bringing my twin cam up to a 124. This time I will so take into consideration proper “break-in” procedure. Because nothing is worse than personally tearing down your bike due to poor performance. Then realizing the shop you trusted with all that money and dreams. Didn’t treat your machine with the same degree of intensiveness as they were their own. Everything you said in this video I have heard from the new builder. I was happily introduced to can’t wait to post results from my new build.
Good Video. I was a manufacturing Engineer for Waukesha Engines, Briggs and Stratton and Harley Davidson. Most folks are not aware how critical honing is. The days of running a ball hone or flap disk in a bore are long over. Suffocated gaging equipment is required to measure all the parameters such as Ra, Rq, Rvk, Rpk, Wa, Wq, Pa, Pq and more, typically made by Taylor Hobson and Hummelwerk's. When working at Harley, they called your skipping "singing rings." I have a new Tri Glide with about 550 miles on it. With the knowledge I have, I followed your suggested break in almost to the letter.
Kevin, I learned a lot from this video. I always heat cycle 3-4 times, on the lift, then take the bike for an easy short ride 5- 10 miles then take it to my tuner. I've been using the auto tuners for my builds from "Fuel Motto"( they match up the air /fuel for me) which seems to be working good, then have it Dyno tuned after a few hundred miles. I only build basic street bikes, nothing like hi performance race bikes, however, I do realize how important a good time is. Thanks Again Kevin 😊
I bought a 1982 FXRS Shovelhead right off the showroom floor. Put 500 miles on that bike that day @ 60mph. Changed out that oil & oil filter. Never had a single engine problem. That was a very nice bike and it was all bone stock. This is another great video with tons of info.
My engine break in story . Mechanic built bottom end and cylinders,pistons and fitted heads. Tuner put a safe tune in, ran the bike 500ks tuner put a final tune in then 1500ks later Compression is now 170psi and leakdown is 50% . Now I’m going to have to start again . Listen to Kevin . Even after telling my tuner about what was said in this video ,he still did it his way and I followed his instructions. Stupid me. This time I will do it Kevin’s way 100%. But,First time researching and sourcing parts , I did put the rest of the motor together myself and fitted it . I’m not a mechanic I just watched Kevin’s videos amongst others. I got 103hp and 113 torque out of my 103-107 build so even with 50% leakdown I did ok 😆. I’m going to re-build the top end again myself in the next couple of weeks, Kevin’s way 👍
Take my money! Jesus.. i swear your the most competent engine guy i have ever heard!.. btw i come from aviation and have heard it all on breaking in engines.. you understand it better than anyone else I have ever heard talk about engines.
@@KevinBaxter I'll be in touch I have a sporty that in the winter I'm going to want to hop up and get on the track a bit more next season... mix it up with the metric guys ;-)... too bad buells are getting so rare.. i run an FTR1200... amazing bike.. but too much electronics for my style and makes me a worse rider on the track... faster, but sloppy with electronics.. i want get back to simple... I'm also trying to start collecting nice evo big twin bikes, 90s era.. . I'll be looking on your website if any come around..
Kevin you are by far the most comprehensive wealth of knowledge for V Twins on the web and I just wanna tell you how much I appreciate it thank you 🙏 sir
Good timing, Kevin. I bought a 20 Low Rider S one week before the Zombie Apocalypse hit. Between work and constant rain I've only been able to put 120 miles on it so far. Matter of fact, I have a sneaking suspicion that the universe hates me and this entire situation might be a result of my purchase. =P I'll be listening to this in full tomorrow while I'm working. I'm a crane operator at an ocean port, and we're still working vessels. This will keep my mind off the fact that one of the 300+ people I work with just tested positive, after working for the past 2 weeks while feeling like shit and not telling anyone. But, the Dalia Lama says that I will receive total enlightenment on my death bed, so I have that going for me, which is nice.
Broken in as you recommended, and it runs perfectly. It does not use any oil, the drain plug magnet is clean, and you have a copy of my oil analysis from the lab. Job well done sir, thank you very much. ...LT
Thanks for this video! I 'm always gentle with a new engine. Start doing small distances in curvie roads and I build up the pressure and rpm's for about 1000 mhls . And warming up the engine not by just let it idle , but start riding gentle so it warms up quicker to normal operating temperatures. When I think , after a few 1000 mhls the engine is ok , I'm not aftraid to trash it (on operation temp) . So many times I hear people say it's not important to brake in a new car because of the new machining techniques . I'm old scool so I stay with my own ideas. Kevin, your info has given me a better knowledge about the different materials. Thanks .
No doubt, that was the best explanation I've heard thus far on the function and purpose of all these components and the importance of doing it correctly! Excellent presentation Kevin, thanks! Brian Centennial Cycle Repair LLC
I bought a 1200 sportster brand new in 1995. Had to drive immediate first 30 miles on interstate between 60-75 mph. Tried to vary speeds after that. It was about 50 F that first ride so that probably was helpful. Sold bike with 50K on engine running like new. Changed Mobil 1 15W-50 every 3-5k. Excellent video!
The best lecture I had. I know nothing about the technicality of the engine but I can relate this from my past experienced. That explain a lot on the outcome. Thank you sir. You're a great guru I say. Will apply this to my upcoming new engine.
I've was never really taught the science behind engine break in i always did a few heat cycles and kept to rpm varying along with cool downs and increasing the amount of rpm range I go through. All my motor have preformed very well of my racing career in motocross. i was using assembly lube on the skirt and rings before. not going to anymore that makes total sense! It's great to finally know the whys of how this works and i can explain it better to my customers who i build motors for. Thank you kevin!!!
Right on Kevin! Very good presentation. Many folks will not follow these guidelines. This is one of those subjects that, unfortunately, very much wrong info gets put out about it. With you 100% on your advise here.
You have a great ability to explain details. I built tc88 to 98. 2003 fxsti a simple project cam tensioner turn into a rebuild Head work, cam, cc chambers, scavenging oil pump, cp pistons ft 9.5-1 Ok break in I used assembly lube on the pistons and rings. Interesting thought you gave on using regular oil. I prefer to "wash" the inside and clean away debris. Crank the motor until the oil pressure gauge had a reading. Put the plugs in, fuse for fuel pump and ran the engine for about 30 seconds. Let it completely cool then took it for a short ride. Let it cool again. Then took it for a ride at night temp about 65 degrees on the parkway. Accelerated slowly up to 50, staying under 2000 rpm, then down shift to increase vacuum to suck up oil to get to the top ring. I change the oil/filter (amsoil 20/50) at 50 miles, then 150 then 500. It took forever to get to 1000 miles. Now I get on it and does it pull in 6th I wish I would have found your video BEFORE the rebuild. Thanks
Had my 03 built, guy that did it said he had the rings seated, and informed me of the process Wich was much of what you stated. Told me take it out and run the piss out of it. Never had any issues
Last engine I broke in (60's Harley Sprint SS-250) I idled it on first startup for 5 minutes. Cooled completely. Second start, slowly revved up to mid range a few times from cold for 5 minutes. Let cool overnight. 3rd cycle, 15 minute ride around town. Loading the engine up with ¾ throttle at lower mid range rpm and not sitting at any rpm aside from stopped for traffic. Immediately changed the hot oil with tons of metal and glitter. Next 500 miles rode normally while loading up the engine and accelerate to a limited rpm. Every 100 miles, increasing limit by 500 (starting with 3k). Changed oil at 500 to find very fine material in suspension. Great compression, no smoke, no consumption, good milage, runs like a top. VR1 Valvoline 20w-50.
2010 Road king . Just built my very Harley first engine, I was a little nervous when I hit the button for the first time . 103 ci barrels bored out to 107. Wiseco tracker forged pistons 10.5 1 compression, S&S crank,Andrews 54h cams,fueling cam plate and oil pump,fueling high volume lifters . Had the 103 heads port matched and plunge cut and stronger valve springs . Running twin screaming eagle exhaust and high flow filter. Started after build 3 or 4 times for a very short time ,less than 15 seconds. Goes in to tuners for a “safe tune” tomorrow . I’ll be sure to tell him not to give it too much fuel. I’v learned a lot from your videos and/or manufacturers product install vids. Thanks for helping us all out 👍👍 Ps, I wanted a darkhorse crankworks bottom end , but the wait to arrive in Australian was too long. Next time 😉👍
Great information sir, appreciate your input. Picking my RG up tomorrow at Werner’s House of HP, going from 103-107, 585 cams and CNC ported heads, his break in process sounds EXACTLY like yours. Thanks again, love your informative videos.
My brother bought a 2007 Dyna 96 CI, new. Road it about 25-30 miles and the ran the heck out of it. Dumb ass!! We also built his 06 Ultra classic 88 into a 95, with Bob Woods 555 cams and screaming eagle heads. We did do the heat cycles on it but did not go to the extent that you talked about. It has about 65,000 miles on the engine and is still running strong. Thank you for the insight you give on all of your videos! I wish you were here (Oregon) so we could have you build us some engine. Hard to find your kind of knowledge. We are 3rd generation mechanics our selves but still have a lot to learn. Never stop learning. Thanks again!! Mikel L. James
Again Mr Baxter. highly informative .I never considered heat cycles but I do now. I thought you stretching them out like a rubber band till thy losen up progressively increasing rpm with milage .Thanks for your time and insight .Sir you are a Mechanical patriot . Stay well
You do go to great depths in breaking in an engine, but that's what you do. Just as a home mechanic and the times I've had a rebuilt motor I usually just do what you said at the end of your video as in vary the revs, don't over rev and not to load the motor. Thank you for your videos Kev........
Most of my time for learning on You Tube is in November December and the begging of January but now it's time for gardening. This video came up and I couldn't resist viewing. I agree with everything you said. I've never been able to go to the lengths that you go through but close enough. 40 or more years ago I was taking my second welding course because I had finished my apprenticeship and two journeyman's courses and I needed something to do besides go home to the first wife. Anyway, Several factory reps.came In and demonstrated products. the most memorable was a device that measured true torque. and the value of assembly lube as opposed to common oil. He showed 10 to 25 percent difference in actual true torque.So the first time I saw you explain the use of assembly lube I was convinced you where great. Now your explanation of why not to use it on the parts that need to mate and break in well, that puts you at the top. I've known many brilliant mechanic/machinists, Never anyone as good as you.
Very good information! I'll need to watch your other videos too. I have built some old school V8s, dirt bikes etc. in the past and recently started playing with Harleys. One thing to remember also is to clean all the parts good before assembly. I just built 124 M8 with S&S parts, 525cc injectors, 64mm throttle body etc. I did some port work on the throttle body too. I had heads ported with new valve job by retired old school cylinder head guy who used to be Joe Mondello's student. Ended up with 11.2:1 static compression. I use ThunderMax tuner, set the cruising AFR to 13.5:1 and 13:1 for heavier throttle. Completed couple idle heat cycles per S&S directions and now I'm in the end part of the 500 mile break in. I kept the rpms in 2500-3500 rpm range for first 50 miles, then tried few times up to 4200rpm near 100 miles. I have now about 250 miles in, tried to roll to 5000 rpm twice. Man, this thing pulls good! No smoke coming out of exhaust and plugs look decent, looking good so far. Can't wait to finish the 500 miles, change the oils and see what this puppy can do in 6000 rpm range. I have oil catch can and vacuum pump ready for installation, not that popular solution with Harleys? For now, I routed the cylinder head oil fumes out after head PCV valves so the air intake stays clean. Keep up the good work!
Discovered your channel couple weeks ago, wow! Your channel is like a public message for Harley owners. I have had the honor of owning two new Harley’s 2020 Heritage and now a 2020 Electra Glide police edition. Neither of the dealers gave me advice on how to break in bike. I was advised to bring back after 1000 miles for service. I am a rider I have 17,000 miles on the Electra Glide after 10 months. I had second thoughts about the extended warranty but after watching your channel for many hours I am relieved I have insurance. When the time comes to do engine work I will contact you. I hate to drive so far since I live in Nashville, Tn area but I don’t think I can trust anyone else to work on my engine. Thanks for taking time educating us
I bought a new 07 heritage the dealer said just about the same thing as you my bike has 62000 miles on it and no oil usage I use mobile 1 15/50 on two twin cams now no issues I do understand that the 07s had crank issues also auto primary chain over tightening ever time I service the bike I ck that chain hot always has 3/4 to 1 in play so far good she's been all over the country, thunder header air cleaner and down load. Kevin I did burn a rear piston and cylinder on shovel years ago I wasn't patient enough my bad. Really enjoyed all of your videos keep up the great work greetings from Oregon
I follow the manufacturers recommended break in. No lugging, constant speed, and the first 50 miles was easy on it. Used 500 miles as a target for breaking in. Normally changed the oil at 1k, even in cars. I wish I had of know about the heat cycles. Good video.
Kevin you are amazing! Not only you know what you are doing but you are also explaining all these important details very well! I had a sportster converted from 883 to 1200 done by the dealership and the back piston head exploded after 4000km which destroyed oil pump and practically destroyed the engine. When I got the bike I was only told to not run too fast...
Thanks Kev 👍 My break in of my Sport Glide was warm up first, do around 80km distance, revs between 1000 to 3000rpm, through all gears. (Once cooled down) Then a further 1500km between 1000 to 3500, no lugging etc, on / off throttle, Then dropped all oils, replaced. Stay safe. Good video.
Great job telling how to break it in, i sure learned somethings there you just told. I never heard, but never forget cause it makes cents better safe than sorry. well good job telling and showing and have a good one see ya next time see ya bye.
Hi Kevin! You are awesome to listen and watch your videos. Such knowledge. Thanks for all advices. You are polite and professional. Thanks a lot for a great program. Greetings Peder 😊🇸🇪👋🏻
I had a supercharged cobra mustang that was built with forged pistons and blowby was bad and we fixed it by switching them out to hyperutectic, but had to reduce boost a little. This is an amazing description thank you
Jesus Christ ! If I had to go through all of that whenever I buy a new bike I'd go nuts . I have bought a lot of new Harleys over the years , and the way I break m in is I fire up the new bike and go . Very simple . And never , never have I had a single problem .
I just purchased a new Try Glide, 2021 last week, 5.13.2021. I have about 270 miles on it now and I read the owners manual and I have not allowed it to get over 3500 rpm's so far.The 114 engine feels like it has some get up and go but I am being a good boy and not hot rodding my new ride. Thanks for the video.
Kevin, thank you for responding to my inquiry and thank you for your very informative information that I couldn't agree with you more. It those days i always went by what the spark plugs were telling me, even today when I am making setups that haven't been tried my knowledge alone with Supercharging that has worked for me very well so far and with your expertise on my new intakes under the Supercharger and coming up with the right mapping system for this would again, put me ahead of the curve. For example, I was running the gas tank under the seat 40 years before HD thought it was an original idea, along with so many other things that I designed too long ago. I greatly appreciate your input on my aftermarket parts catalog mostly concerning my new Supercharger system for the V Rod and other components that has been in the works for 9 1/2 years and I am almost done. I have orders from the largest distributors that I am currently unable to fill but, hopefully, this summer it will all come together. Thanks again.
A wonderful tutorial on the do’s and don’t s. buy someone who really knows his stuff ! Thank you so much for your vid . I hope that many people will take heed . All the best from OZ. Keep up the great work eh. ? 👍🥃🇦🇺
OK Kevin, 1o7 twin cam build S/S FW 570g cams flowed heads oil pump etc. followed my builders Break-in and in 60 miles I checked oil filter metal flakes silver . Round two I did the heat in method we at 1200 miles now...PEACE!
Hi, just watched the video on break in. Back in the 70's I rebuilt a 324ci Oldsmobile engine. I used perfect circle chrome rings. Their break in procedure was to take it on the highway and from about 30mph accelerate to highway speed limit at full throttle. Then let it coast to 30 mph and do it again 9 more times. It never used any oil between changes up until I traded it for a Triumph TR 6 for my daughter. She called the 1955 Olds the BAT MOBILE. Not associated with todays technology I guess but thought it might give you a chuckle.
Lots of good info. I was in Germany some years ago and what they did before they sent the car out the door surprised me. They would put the car on a Dyno and run the car at 75mph for about 5 minutes then move it to the next station. It goes against all I had learned about engine break-in
Another great video. Thanks for the education. I’ve learned so much since subbing your channel. I’ll probably never used most of what I’ve learned, but I love knowing it.
Best description of ring chatter I've heard, only recently found your videos and have been bingeing. I had a cupboard full of ECU's, injectors and carburetors specifically for running in engines on an engine dyno, each one is specifically tuned for a particular build and marked to get as close as possible to ideal AFR for bedding in, then replaced with the ones belonging to the engine and tuned to match the particular application the engine has been built for. Also send the filter with the oil to be analyzed for metal content, particulate size, ash content etc.. Been retired for a few years now and still dabble when I get the chance, the changes in technology march on, and yet remain much the same regardless. Just bought a new bike (FLSB) with an M-8 and I'm looking forward to stripping it down for a look see, either when it's out of warranty, or when I decide to say stuff it and open it up for a bit of massaging (watched the vid on crank alignment, food for thought) and maybe a few more cubes.
I personally break in my new builds on the dyno. Initial start up I’ll throttle up to about 1800 rpm and warm it up to 160°. Then let it cool completely. I’ll do that twice more to 180° with full cooling between each. Then I’ll do the same warm up and run it fairly easy up to 4th gear then with a 10% load I’ll do 20-25% throttle from 1500 to 3000 then fully let off throttle to slow it bavk to 1500. I’ll do that 3 times then cool completely. Next will be the same but to 4000 and then the same to 5500. Complete cool down between each and get progressively more aggressive with throttle input. Once it’s cooled down from the 5500 rpm runs I’ll begin tuning. Corrections in AFR will be made throughout break in as required. I try to keep it around 13.8
Great info . When I build a new Engine. I do 4 heat cycles before even ridding the bike . I then do 25 miles under 2500 rpms 25 miles under 3500 rpms 25 miles vering rpms up and down at highway speeds . Then 25 miles vering rpms up to 4500 rpms . Go back to the shop change the oil and filter . Then ride the bike as normal.
I'll definitely share. Just finished my 124" Twin cam S&S build. My local shop definitely ran it threw a few heat cycles. Once done, they had about 30 miles on it. Then, I was told to ride her from about 2500-4500 RPMs. They cautioned me not to go below 2500 RPMs too often, as the engine doesn't like lugging. I'll say, once I started riding her, I definitely felt heard some pinging at the lower RPM ranges. Brought her back to the shop and they told me the ignition timing was a bit strong, and they pulled back a bit. Didn't hear the pinging much after that. I've got about 280 miles on her now. Wondering what she looks like inside and how the rings sealed. I'd love to be able to send over a sample for testing. Curious how the break in process faired for me. Thanks for sharing, Kevin. As always, your videos help me understand the what and why, better than anyone else.
Great knowledge and break in process. In the old days some people would say run it hard, for break in. ha! beat it into submission, again that sounds crazy. what I leaned today from your video, is the crosshatch specs. I never knew that. [ I am working on a 1976 shovelhead] Kevin, Thanks for another great video.
Brilliant, very interesting (as always) especially because I bought a new FXLRS 4 weeks ago and been worrying a great deal about this, found myself in the wrong gear a couple of times and slogged it for a couple of seconds, also when overtaking topped 4,000 revs for a few seconds with only 200 miles on the clock. What I would love to know is, do the factory do any test running and what my local dealer probably did on the first 5 miles which were on the clock when I collected the bike? Many thanks for all your videos.
I've heard many places that thrashing an engine very hard after the first heat cycle is conducive to a high performance engine. Corvette's Z06 is broken in on a race track up to redline minutes after first startup. I don't have the balls to do it to my own bike if I spend several grand on internals but I do trust that method fully because most all of the heavy breaking in is done in the first few minutes/miles. Honing takes a while and I've heard cases of bikes taken apart at 50k miles with cross hatching still present. Its evidence that it should/could have been broken in harder and achieved higher performance.
Geat video and lots of info to digest....however most people don't have the equipment or knowledge to monitor air/fuel ratios whilst riding the first 30 or so miles. Either one can dial that in at a local shop before the rebuild or trust the initial factory tune and hope for the best ratios.
As always, Great information. So I take it that a new Harley off the showroom, just vary the RPM and speed for the first 500 miles and change the oil at 1000 miles and call it good.
Kevin, my experience has been from automotive, by adjusting or varying the speed from 20 mph to 30 mph dropping it down then continuing maybe 25 to 35 then slowly increasing the speed but, keeping it under 60 for the first 500 miles. I continued the process with my bikes and seem to have an advantage after break in over everything I raced. Start with my brother's GTO then my 454 El Camino to my first Z1 900 bored to 1040 now to my Supercharged V Rod Muscle which You are going to help me with the maping when I am ready. Great series thanks.
My man....a car guy. As you know, that along with bikes has been in the blood since birth. I would agree with most of that especially with auto engines. I practiced that as well with air cooled bike engines as well but started to notice many years ago, that my procedure had to be modified for various reasons to break it in quicker. One, air cooled engines require more fuel than liquid cooled. Example...those cars you list, id tune AFR around 14.2 give or take at idle, and between that and 14.5 at cruise. These engines require 13.4 to 13.8 at idle and 14.1 give or take at cruise to keep them cool. So with the richer required mixture, I found if i break them in more aggressively, i get a better leakdown and CCP after break in than doing it using a slower less aggressive method. Great comment James...thank you so much for taking the time and for the sub. I look forward to hearing more from you.
Yeah same here. But does Harley start the engine at the factory? I know the first few minutes are important and dealership mechanics should ride a new bike for ~13 miles (or so I’ve been told). When I purchased my 2020 Heritage, it had 1 mile on it! BTW, I about passed out when all the salesman celebrated my purchase by starting a new bike and revving the engine at high rpms! I purchased a 2021 SGS and you should have seen how the salesman treated the new bike he used to go on a test ride with me. Crazy! Anyway, awesome video! I really appreciate your level of knowledge and professionalism.
Great video, my break in on my 22 ultra was a 48 mile ride to the house, 2 weeks later it was loaded up for a trip to south west North Carolina, then 1100 miles on mountain roads, Harley said it would be fine, after watching this, now I’m worried
Heck yeah man. I saw that come thru. I really appreciate it. I'll be up at RDS later this summer. Rob is a great fella and trusted friend. Have a great deal of respect for him.
02 cvo wide glide 88TC 1st engine build (before UA-cam). 585 s&s 95 ci piston & jugs Mikuni carb. I was given so much bad info and advice on jetting, break in and assembly that the rear cylinder decintigrated within 10 min. (Not Blaming, My responsibility!!!) 1. Told to Port heads and intake by hand. 2. Larger valves and jetting not needed for this build. 3. Clutch would be fine. I could go to belt drive if I wanted. 4. No break in required. Got several how to references based on popular TV shows of the time. And automotive references as well. $$$LESSON LEARN!!$$
Man hate to hear of your bad experiences. I would like to offer this...if anyone ever gives you advice on this stuff, always ask them why. If you ask enough why's you'll eventually get to one of 3 things....either that's the way I've always done it, that's my opinion or how i was told, or you get facts and true explanations that can be confirmed. I'd trust the last one most. Wish you better luck sir.
@@KevinBaxter Thanks for all the great videos, Kevin. Incidentally, the "five whys" technique was originally developed by the Toyota Motor Corporation to evaluate its manufacturing methodologies. The idea is that the answer to the fifth "why" question will reveal the root cause of the problem being encountered.
I bought a 2020 new Harley davidson lowrider 107.i already have 12,700 miles on it beautiful motor.i the tech at Harley davidson dealer.in Effingham ilinios told me to just keep it under 3,500 ram the first 1,000 miles and under 50 mph the first 50 miles no issues with the bike at all.
I ride them as normal shift as normal, get on throttle a few short times, but I don't tend to beat on my bikes often or for long, but let's face it its fun as heck to twist that throttle once or twice when we ride !
Excellent info, Thanks Kevin. Ok ,since you asked: for other bikes.... Yamaha Bolt, ( 2019 spec, as mine sits : 58 cubes, 59.3 foot pounds at 3000 rpm , 5870 rpm, 65 hp,107 mph, wet weight 547 pounds, 27 inch seat height, 30 inch bar spread. meaning 22 inches between your thumbs, .... mid controls, rake 29 degrees, lean angle 37 degrees left and right) , Spec says : first 600 kms, no more than 1/3 throttle, .... We assume here 1800 rpm. ( max-wrist is 120 degrees of twist..... No Tach ....), for the first 600 kilometres. Change oil and filter. Then same , but not more than 1/2 throttle for the next 400 kms.... lol. So assumed if max-wrist is 5870 rpm, ( which I repeat, is max torque for bike . 59.3 ft #s.then 1/2 wrist for this is going to lug the engine if you aren't paying attention. stay off the highways ... ha!) .... so ok..Then oil and filter change. then at 1600 kms do same, filter-oil change and "good-to -go , ride as normal . To quote Yamaha " Has Ceramic coated cylinders: and I use 10W-50 oil, in all changes . Must be that the cylinders are RMS 16 or RMS 8 finishes to get the required sealing to occur. Bike works awesomely .... except for that "Yamaha-Tick". I'm thinking that the valve clearance on the valves was "upped" by ).002 to 0.004 " on the inlet and outlets to prevent new-user trashing the engine. ?? Bugs the crap out of me why Yammy would do that ...... why not just key the fuel injection system to rev-limit during break-in period, .... ugghhh. Stay Safe!! W
anytime specialty coated cyls or pistons are thrown in the mix, different break in procedures can be necessary. There are many factors....too many to really squeeze into a video.
On My Harley's I Basically Do what you said Including Decels which Seals my Rings and All Moving parts Perfect to where my bikes have Way Above Average Power , No to Very Little Oil Usage and Very High Milage . On Sport bike where Manufacturer Recommends a given Rpm by Specific Mileage I'll Calculate the Length/ Mileage of Rides and Incrementally add Say 500 RPM each Ride to my Break in Procedure which may take me up to Several weeks mainly do to Duration of Rides which vary Around 70 Miles each Ride..And even after Break in I'll Ensure that at least Once During my Ride I'll Redline my Bike in two / three Gears then Allow for full Cool down..
I just did a 98” on my 05 efi dyna and on the heat cycles get it to operating Temp four times letting it cool in between? Has wiseco forged piston ring kit no coding I have a power vision so I should be able to get the AFr at the 13.8-14.1 o and my cylinders were plateau honed they also used torque plates hillside did the jugs i’m getting very mixed opinions on this some say do not let it get to running temp for the heat cycles but I’ve been watching your videos for a few weeks and it seems to me really know your stuff thank you for all your help and knowledge you have helped me a lot and have educated me a lot through these videos
Wow thats cool. I had a 63 Panhead. That break in was Go a quarter mile turn around home. Wait for it to cool over night. Torque the cylinder Bolts etc. From memory I did each step twice. Then Go half a mile, turn around home, same thing. Then 3/4 etc out to 5miles. Arfter all that change the oil. Then I could Go for small rides Until I got to 1000 miles. Change oil again. Then I was Good to Go lol. Pain in the bum. Not to mention the dual point set up needing to be adjusted every 700 miles of riding lol. I luvd that bike but I reckon I kicked it as far as I rode it . Ahr kick starts lol
This may seem odd , you just explained the exact break in I have run for 30+ years (except the fuel injection of course) , only I generally don't use assembly line at all . I assemble using only the engine oil that I'm running in the engine (Royal Purple) except the oil pump . There I use Royal Purple assembly lube . All of my buddies that build their own motors wonder why my motors always run stronger and longer , I tell them it's the break in .
I had no idea this was so critical in the very first few miles! Harley’s demo ride policy precludes most of us to take delivery of a zero miles bike. Who knows what the other test riders did to evaluate how a bike feels or performs. Salesman can’t ride along like in a car to supervise reasonable driving habits. I suppose as the new owner we could ask for engine oil analysis and leak down tests etc before we took delivery but if they came back out of spec, assuming a dealership told us the truth of those test results, the motor company would be left with a bike the couldn’t sell without a new engine(downside!) or a real reason to deny warranty claims due to probable improper break-in(upside)... Never happen prolly but maybe other manufactures “no test ride” policies now make some real sense. My “new” ‘17 M8 bought in late ‘18 had relatively many test ride miles on it already. By chance I essentially did your procedure til 1000 miles after I took possession. Time will tell.
I just had catastrophic failure of my 114” Harley engine. And the more I watch your videos, the less I want to put more miles on that bike, till you or someone like you worked that motor towards bulletproofing the engine. Maybe I’ll just sell it and buy a Metric.
Well that was awesome I got a 21 road glide special and every 2 or 300 miles it starts chug a lugging so it's only 10 months old with 11 thousand miles so I'm ordering a 131 screaming eagle stage 4 crate engin for it what is the difference between oil cooling and air cooling the air cooled one is slightly more expensive which one should I get if you could just let me know I would really appreciate it thank you for your time Kevin your awesome 👌
It may be too late to get this question answered here BUT: After watching, we learned that the 3rd, or bottom ring(s), hold oil and apply a somewhat exact film amount to the cylinder wall to lubricate the top 2 rings and that they are expanded outward by crank case pressure to seal just right. I have also be advised elsewhere that it is a "must" on M8 engines to vent/reduce this same crank case pressure either through a dip stick vent or modification to the stock head breather system to atmosphere vs. into the intake as in the the stock system. QUESTION: How does venting the crankcase adversely affect the function of the 3rd(bottom) piston ring on an M8 engine - mine is a 2020 Road King 107. Thanks
Thanks. It isn't a must to vent...not all of them have the problem. I'm chuckling a bit over all this...its not an M8 specific issue. Twin Cams used to blow the dipsticks out before they started threading the dipstick back in 07. As bore size increases, at some point, the stock breather system cant handle the pressure. Something has to give. I was putting 2nd PCV valves in rocker boxes 15 yrs ago. Much of the issue is excessive blow by on poorly machined stock cylinders or low tension compression rings. I digress...if crank pressure isn't relieved it will cause sumping issues, blow by, etc. Carbon buildup between and on top of rings.
@@KevinBaxter Right, we all know about these issues BUT your video got me thinking about how eliminating crank case pressure might effect bottom (oiling) ring sets ability to do its job by not expanding properly is the question?
Loved the level of detail and "why" you shared. Not sure how you are able to use a bore scope during break in. But, loved it as I believe the break-in is massively important towards ending up with a good motor. I have 102k miles on a TC88A. Wear is at 16%. Uses no oil. I was old skool ... low RPM (progressively higher and varied), changed oil @ 1k miles and then to synthetic. Over-serviced after that (2k vs 5k changes). Curious as to $'s charged for the break-in that you do, and how much time it takes. Thx for the vid. Love the extensive knowledge level.
Years ago I had a laCar 4 cylinder , car had about 25000 miles on it all the pistons looked like someone took a hacksaw to them and cut slots parallel to the rod through the rings . I machined the ends of the pistons ,removing the ring groves, I then welded the metal back in with aluminum ,machined the ring groves into the new metal and installed new rings , engine ran for about 60,000 miles with no problems.
Sounds like my break in got effed off from the gate. Had a faulty 02 (wideband) that caused the bike to stall and not idle for the first few miles, it was running quite rich as well, didn't change the break in oil until about 200 miles either. Builder also told me not to go above 3,500 RPMs in the first 500 as well.
Kevin i have a 2012 tri-glide, 103, tuner, true duels, air cleaner . i am going to replace rings and hone jugs . "oil burning". want to put gear drive cams but don't think it will take them. i don't have it pulled apart yet. so can i put gear drive on cams at rear of cam chest and chain from front so i don't have to worry with tensioner on rear of cam chest ? i am 6'3 380 and wife is 140 what would be a good cam that i can put in ? we do a lot of travel and sometimes i pull a trailer. thank you for all you do. love your videos.
I would only hone the jugs if...there is enough material to allow for it without exceeding piston clearance spec, if the cylinder isn't tapered too much, etc. Often, they are so far out, your effort will be wasted. Honestly...take off cylinders are cheap. Maybe 50 bucks. Find a set of 88 or 96 inch used cyls (3.75 bore), have them bored and honed to your current pistons if they spec right, then install new rings. I have many cores I could sell you for 50 bucks. 250 to bore and hone but youd want to send me your pistons to measure. As for the cam...a few choices. If you can, shoot me an email to kevin@protwin.com and I'll send you information tomorrow. Thanks.
Great video, heat cycling is what I've been told works on rebuilds, What about a new motor tthat'salready been on the dyno or in the test lab at the factory and has been taken right through the rev range to check for issues. Isn't that motor broken in already?
My dad was a heavy industrial mechanic. I grew up listening to the exact same explanation you preached over the last half hour. When others disagreed he would just sit , listening and smile. The reason I like your videos is knowledge. Thanks.
Wow, that is the most thorough engine break-in process I've ever heard of. I trust you tons sir. Great video. If I ever have engine work done in the south east, I'll be sure to have it done with your business.
I sure wish I had one, but... My son-in-law is building a 383 for my newly purchased 55 Chevy Sedan delivery, and I can hardly wait to take back possession of it. Love how you break everything down so us unwashed can easily understand. Keep up the good work and remain safe. In the meantime I'm having to rely on my yamaha 650 classic. Too bad I live in Houston as I just began THAT adventure 2 years ago at the age of 67. True, it ain't a hog, but we do what we can.
I heard someone say the only reason the dealers tell you to not go over 3500 RPM is because they use a lighter weight oil in the engine for the break in period. That sound a little foolish to me. As you stated, we can ask 100 different people and get 100 different answers. Your explanation is very informative. excellent content, Thank you!
If every manufacturer would explain break-in procedure like you did here, there would be no misconceptions. Great video, sir 👍🏻
Thank you very much. And I agree. Lol
Kevin Baxter dang. I miss school sometimes 🙂 I’m subscribed, of course.
This is some next level content on youtube. Thanks for all the great info in your videos.
My pleasure! Thank you!
Great video. Couldn’t agree more. I have heard builders say that you can drive it like you stole it. Very scary. I always use 500 miles with new vehicles both cars bikes and snowmobiles. Go easy and up and down the rpm range nothing constant. My grandpa taught me that decades ago. 👍
if we are building a very high end full blueprint...big power engine....and there arent special piston coatings, etc....we will get the tune right asap then give it all shes got right out of the gate...but it depends on the intended purpose of the engine.
I enjoy your vids. I bought an 06 ultra Classic as my first Harley last year. After watching your video on cam chain adjusters, I bought the Screaming Eagle cam plate kit. You may have just saved me a ton of money, and my feelings for Harleys. Thanks so much for taking the time to educate us.
Like Mike said, we all spend a lot of time, money, and effort building and enjoying our motorcycles. I recently broke down my twin cam and sent pictures of two different sets of cylinders to a reputable bike builder in Arizona. Both sets were scored and I was surprised to learn that the cause was either poor break-in procedure or improper warm-up of the engine. I plan on bringing my twin cam up to a 124. This time I will so take into consideration proper “break-in” procedure. Because nothing is worse than personally tearing down your bike due to poor performance. Then realizing the shop you trusted with all that money and dreams. Didn’t treat your machine with the same degree of intensiveness as they were their own. Everything you said in this video I have heard from the new builder. I was happily introduced to can’t wait to post results from my new build.
Good Video. I was a manufacturing Engineer for Waukesha Engines, Briggs and Stratton and Harley Davidson. Most folks are not aware how critical honing is. The days of running a ball hone or flap disk in a bore are long over. Suffocated gaging equipment is required to measure all the parameters such as Ra, Rq, Rvk, Rpk, Wa, Wq, Pa, Pq and more, typically made by Taylor Hobson and Hummelwerk's. When working at Harley, they called your skipping "singing rings." I have a new Tri Glide with about 550 miles on it. With the knowledge I have, I followed your suggested break in almost to the letter.
Kevin,
I learned a lot from this video. I always heat cycle 3-4 times, on the lift, then take the bike for an easy short ride 5- 10 miles then take it to my tuner. I've been using the auto tuners for my builds from "Fuel Motto"( they match up the air /fuel for me) which seems to be working good, then have it Dyno tuned after a few hundred miles. I only build basic street bikes, nothing like hi performance race bikes, however, I do realize how important a good time is. Thanks Again Kevin
😊
I bought a 1982 FXRS Shovelhead right off the showroom floor. Put 500 miles on that bike that day @ 60mph. Changed out that oil & oil filter. Never had a single engine problem. That was a very nice bike and it was all bone stock. This is another great video with tons of info.
My engine break in story . Mechanic built bottom end and cylinders,pistons and fitted heads. Tuner put a safe tune in, ran the bike 500ks tuner put a final tune in then 1500ks later Compression is now 170psi and leakdown is 50% . Now I’m going to have to start again . Listen to Kevin . Even after telling my tuner about what was said in this video ,he still did it his way and I followed his instructions. Stupid me. This time I will do it Kevin’s way 100%. But,First time researching and sourcing parts , I did put the rest of the motor together myself and fitted it . I’m not a mechanic I just watched Kevin’s videos amongst others. I got 103hp and 113 torque out of my 103-107 build so even with 50% leakdown I did ok 😆. I’m going to re-build the top end again myself in the next couple of weeks, Kevin’s way 👍
Take my money! Jesus.. i swear your the most competent engine guy i have ever heard!.. btw i come from aviation and have heard it all on breaking in engines.. you understand it better than anyone else I have ever heard talk about engines.
Very very kind of you to say Steven. Thanks for taking the time to comment. I greatly appreciate the complement and am happy to hear you enjoy it.
@@KevinBaxter I'll be in touch I have a sporty that in the winter I'm going to want to hop up and get on the track a bit more next season... mix it up with the metric guys ;-)... too bad buells are getting so rare.. i run an FTR1200... amazing bike.. but too much electronics for my style and makes me a worse rider on the track... faster, but sloppy with electronics.. i want get back to simple... I'm also trying to start collecting nice evo big twin bikes, 90s era.. . I'll be looking on your website if any come around..
Kevin you are by far the most comprehensive wealth of knowledge for V Twins on the web and I just wanna tell you how much I appreciate it thank you 🙏 sir
Good timing, Kevin. I bought a 20 Low Rider S one week before the Zombie Apocalypse hit. Between work and constant rain I've only been able to put 120 miles on it so far. Matter of fact, I have a sneaking suspicion that the universe hates me and this entire situation might be a result of my purchase. =P
I'll be listening to this in full tomorrow while I'm working. I'm a crane operator at an ocean port, and we're still working vessels. This will keep my mind off the fact that one of the 300+ people I work with just tested positive, after working for the past 2 weeks while feeling like shit and not telling anyone. But, the Dalia Lama says that I will receive total enlightenment on my death bed, so I have that going for me, which is nice.
Thanks man. Be safe out there and best of luck. Next I'm expecting to find out covid causes zombies.
Broken in as you recommended, and it runs perfectly. It does not use any oil, the drain plug magnet is clean, and you have a copy of my oil analysis from the lab. Job well done sir, thank you very much. ...LT
All is good in the hood my friend. Glad that beast is serving you well. Thank you my friend.
Thanks for this video! I 'm always gentle with a new engine. Start doing small distances in curvie roads and I build up the pressure and rpm's for about 1000 mhls . And warming up the engine not by just let it idle , but start riding gentle so it warms up quicker to normal operating temperatures. When I think , after a few 1000 mhls the engine is ok , I'm not aftraid to trash it (on operation temp) . So many times I hear people say it's not important to brake in a new car because of the new machining techniques . I'm old scool so I stay with my own ideas. Kevin, your info has given me a better knowledge about the different materials. Thanks .
No doubt, that was the best explanation I've heard thus far on the function and purpose of all these components and the importance of doing it correctly! Excellent presentation Kevin, thanks!
Brian
Centennial Cycle Repair LLC
I bought a 1200 sportster brand new in 1995. Had to drive immediate first 30 miles on interstate between 60-75 mph. Tried to vary speeds after that. It was about 50 F that first ride so that probably was helpful. Sold bike with 50K on engine running like new. Changed Mobil 1 15W-50 every 3-5k.
Excellent video!
The best lecture I had. I know nothing about the technicality of the engine but I can relate this from my past experienced. That explain a lot on the outcome. Thank you sir. You're a great guru I say. Will apply this to my upcoming new engine.
I've was never really taught the science behind engine break in i always did a few heat cycles and kept to rpm varying along with cool downs and increasing the amount of rpm range I go through. All my motor have preformed very well of my racing career in motocross.
i was using assembly lube on the skirt and rings before. not going to anymore that makes total sense!
It's great to finally know the whys of how this works and i can explain it better to my customers who i build motors for.
Thank you kevin!!!
Thanks for sharing
Right on Kevin! Very good presentation. Many folks will not follow these guidelines. This is one of those subjects that, unfortunately, very much wrong info gets put out about it. With you 100% on your advise here.
Thanks Rick! Hope many take the advice. I appreciate your membership sir.
You have a great ability to explain details.
I built tc88 to 98. 2003 fxsti a simple project cam tensioner turn into a rebuild
Head work, cam, cc chambers, scavenging oil pump, cp pistons ft 9.5-1
Ok break in
I used assembly lube on the pistons and rings. Interesting thought you gave on using regular oil. I prefer to "wash" the inside and clean away debris.
Crank the motor until the oil pressure gauge had a reading.
Put the plugs in, fuse for fuel pump and ran the engine for about 30 seconds. Let it completely cool then took it for a short ride. Let it cool again.
Then took it for a ride at night temp about 65 degrees on the parkway. Accelerated slowly up to 50, staying under 2000 rpm, then down shift to increase vacuum to suck up oil to get to the top ring. I change the oil/filter (amsoil 20/50) at 50 miles, then 150 then 500. It took forever to get to 1000 miles. Now I get on it and does it pull in 6th
I wish I would have found your video BEFORE the rebuild.
Thanks
Did you use amsoil throughout whole break in? I heard to use dyno for break in then switch whatever oil you like. Thoughts?
Had my 03 built, guy that did it said he had the rings seated, and informed me of the process Wich was much of what you stated. Told me take it out and run the piss out of it. Never had any issues
Last engine I broke in (60's Harley Sprint SS-250) I idled it on first startup for 5 minutes. Cooled completely. Second start, slowly revved up to mid range a few times from cold for 5 minutes. Let cool overnight. 3rd cycle, 15 minute ride around town. Loading the engine up with ¾ throttle at lower mid range rpm and not sitting at any rpm aside from stopped for traffic. Immediately changed the hot oil with tons of metal and glitter. Next 500 miles rode normally while loading up the engine and accelerate to a limited rpm. Every 100 miles, increasing limit by 500 (starting with 3k). Changed oil at 500 to find very fine material in suspension. Great compression, no smoke, no consumption, good milage, runs like a top. VR1 Valvoline 20w-50.
2010 Road king . Just built my very Harley first engine, I was a little nervous when I hit the button for the first time . 103 ci barrels bored out to 107. Wiseco tracker forged pistons 10.5 1 compression, S&S crank,Andrews 54h cams,fueling cam plate and oil pump,fueling high volume lifters . Had the 103 heads port matched and plunge cut and stronger valve springs . Running twin screaming eagle exhaust and high flow filter. Started after build 3 or 4 times for a very short time ,less than 15 seconds. Goes in to tuners for a “safe tune” tomorrow . I’ll be sure to tell him not to give it too much fuel. I’v learned a lot from your videos and/or manufacturers product install vids.
Thanks for helping us all out 👍👍
Ps, I wanted a darkhorse crankworks bottom end , but the wait to arrive in Australian was too long. Next time 😉👍
Great information sir, appreciate your input.
Picking my RG up tomorrow at Werner’s House of HP, going from 103-107, 585 cams and CNC ported heads, his break in process sounds EXACTLY like yours. Thanks again, love your informative videos.
My brother bought a 2007 Dyna 96 CI, new. Road it about 25-30 miles and the ran the heck out of it. Dumb ass!! We also built his 06 Ultra classic 88 into a 95, with Bob Woods 555 cams and screaming eagle heads. We did do the heat cycles on it but did not go to the extent that you talked about. It has about 65,000 miles on the engine and is still running strong. Thank you for the insight you give on all of your videos! I wish you were here (Oregon) so we could have you build us some engine. Hard to find your kind of knowledge. We are 3rd generation mechanics our selves but still have a lot to learn. Never stop learning. Thanks again!! Mikel L. James
Again Mr Baxter. highly informative .I never considered heat cycles but I do now. I thought you stretching them out like a rubber band till thy losen up progressively increasing rpm with milage .Thanks for your time and insight .Sir you are a Mechanical patriot . Stay well
Thank you so much Scott! All the best sir. Your support is greatly appreciated.
You do go to great depths in breaking in an engine, but that's what you do.
Just as a home mechanic and the times I've had a rebuilt motor I usually just do what you said at the end of your video as in vary the revs, don't over rev and not to load the motor.
Thank you for your videos Kev........
Most of my time for learning on You Tube is in November December and the begging of January but now it's time for gardening. This video came up and I couldn't resist viewing. I agree with everything you said. I've never been able to go to the lengths that you go through but close enough. 40 or more years ago I was taking my second welding course because I had finished my apprenticeship and two journeyman's courses and I needed something to do besides go home to the first wife. Anyway, Several factory reps.came In and demonstrated products. the most memorable was a device that measured true torque. and the value of assembly lube as opposed to common oil. He showed 10 to 25 percent difference in actual true torque.So the first time I saw you explain the use of assembly lube I was convinced you where great. Now your explanation of why not to use it on the parts that need to mate and break in well, that puts you at the top. I've known many brilliant mechanic/machinists, Never anyone as good as you.
Very good information! I'll need to watch your other videos too. I have built some old school V8s, dirt bikes etc. in the past and recently started playing with Harleys. One thing to remember also is to clean all the parts good before assembly. I just built 124 M8 with S&S parts, 525cc injectors, 64mm throttle body etc. I did some port work on the throttle body too. I had heads ported with new valve job by retired old school cylinder head guy who used to be Joe Mondello's student. Ended up with 11.2:1 static compression. I use ThunderMax tuner, set the cruising AFR to 13.5:1 and 13:1 for heavier throttle. Completed couple idle heat cycles per S&S directions and now I'm in the end part of the 500 mile break in. I kept the rpms in 2500-3500 rpm range for first 50 miles, then tried few times up to 4200rpm near 100 miles. I have now about 250 miles in, tried to roll to 5000 rpm twice. Man, this thing pulls good! No smoke coming out of exhaust and plugs look decent, looking good so far. Can't wait to finish the 500 miles, change the oils and see what this puppy can do in 6000 rpm range. I have oil catch can and vacuum pump ready for installation, not that popular solution with Harleys? For now, I routed the cylinder head oil fumes out after head PCV valves so the air intake stays clean. Keep up the good work!
Absolutely. Great job on your build. Glad it worked well for you! Thanks for the comment.
Discovered your channel couple weeks ago, wow! Your channel is like a public message for Harley owners. I have had the honor of owning two new Harley’s 2020 Heritage and now a 2020 Electra Glide police edition. Neither of the dealers gave me advice on how to break in bike. I was advised to bring back after 1000 miles for service.
I am a rider I have 17,000 miles on the Electra Glide after 10 months. I had second thoughts about the extended warranty but after watching your channel for many hours I am relieved I have insurance. When the time comes to do engine work I will contact you. I hate to drive so far since I live in Nashville, Tn area but I don’t think I can trust anyone else to work on my engine. Thanks for taking time educating us
Glad all is well for you sir. My inlaws are near Nashville...I love that area. Dixon, Lyles, Columbia....great areas and not too far. ;) Thank you.
I bought a new 07 heritage the dealer said just about the same thing as you my bike has 62000 miles on it and no oil usage I use mobile 1 15/50 on two twin cams now no issues I do understand that the 07s had crank issues also auto primary chain over tightening ever time I service the bike I ck that chain hot always has 3/4 to 1 in play so far good she's been all over the country, thunder header air cleaner and down load. Kevin I did burn a rear piston and cylinder on shovel years ago I wasn't patient enough my bad. Really enjoyed all of your videos keep up the great work greetings from Oregon
One of my absolute go to channels when I’m stuck on something. These guys are awesome 👏
Great video! If I was building a custom bike you would be building the engine!
I follow the manufacturers recommended break in. No lugging, constant speed, and the first 50 miles was easy on it. Used 500 miles as a target for breaking in. Normally changed the oil at 1k, even in cars. I wish I had of know about the heat cycles. Good video.
Kevin you are amazing! Not only you know what you are doing but you are also explaining all these important details very well! I had a sportster converted from 883 to 1200 done by the dealership and the back piston head exploded after 4000km which destroyed oil pump and practically destroyed the engine. When I got the bike I was only told to not run too fast...
I appreciate that! thank you. hate to hear of your trouble with it.
You really think an “exploded piston” had something to do with the break-in or faulty workmanship/part?
These tech videos a really great mate keep them coming
Thanks Kev 👍
My break in of my Sport Glide was warm up first, do around 80km distance, revs between
1000 to 3000rpm, through all gears. (Once cooled down) Then a further 1500km between 1000 to 3500, no lugging etc, on / off throttle, Then dropped all oils, replaced.
Stay safe. Good video.
Wished I lived in the states, I'd be round at your shop most days. 😆
Well done. Thanks.
Great job telling how to break it in, i sure learned somethings there you just told. I never heard, but never forget cause it makes cents better safe than sorry. well good job telling and showing and have a good one see ya next time see ya bye.
You do an excellent job explaining your video's Thanks Kevin
Hi Kevin! You are awesome to listen and watch your videos. Such knowledge. Thanks for all advices. You are polite and professional. Thanks a lot for a great program. Greetings Peder 😊🇸🇪👋🏻
One smart dude. Best info I've ever gotten.
Glad it was helpful! thank you samuel.
I had a supercharged cobra mustang that was built with forged pistons and blowby was bad and we fixed it by switching them out to hyperutectic, but had to reduce boost a little. This is an amazing description thank you
Jesus Christ ! If I had to go through all of that whenever I buy a new bike I'd go nuts . I
have bought a lot of new Harleys over the years , and the way I break m in is I fire up the new bike and go . Very simple . And never , never have I had a single problem .
Man great teaching, your are gifted! One of the best topics discussed in the channel🙏🙌
Glad you enjoyed it. i appreciate it.
I just purchased a new Try Glide, 2021 last week, 5.13.2021. I have about 270 miles on it now and I read the owners manual and I have not allowed it to get over 3500 rpm's so far.The 114 engine feels like it has some get up and go but I am being a good boy and not hot rodding my new ride. Thanks for the video.
Kevin, thank you for responding to my inquiry and thank you for your very informative information that I couldn't agree with you more. It those days i always went by what the spark plugs were telling me, even today when I am making setups that haven't been tried my knowledge alone with Supercharging that has worked for me very well so far and with your expertise on my new intakes under the Supercharger and coming up with the right mapping system for this would again, put me ahead of the curve. For example, I was running the gas tank under the seat 40 years before HD thought it was an original idea, along with so many other things that I designed too long ago. I greatly appreciate your input on my aftermarket parts catalog mostly concerning my new Supercharger system for the V Rod and other components that has been in the works for 9 1/2 years and I am almost done. I have orders from the largest distributors that I am currently unable to fill but, hopefully, this summer it will all come together. Thanks again.
Thank you. Good luck.
A wonderful tutorial on the do’s and don’t s. buy someone who really knows his stuff ! Thank you so much for your vid . I hope that many people will take heed . All the best from OZ. Keep up the great work eh. ? 👍🥃🇦🇺
There's a big difference from a street engine compared to a race engine break in, great and informative video
Yes sir there is. Thanks!
OK Kevin, 1o7 twin cam build S/S FW 570g cams flowed heads oil pump etc. followed my builders Break-in and in 60 miles I checked oil filter metal flakes silver . Round two I did the heat in method we at 1200 miles now...PEACE!
Hi, just watched the video on break in. Back in the 70's I rebuilt a 324ci Oldsmobile engine. I used perfect circle chrome rings. Their break in procedure was to take it on the highway and from about 30mph accelerate to highway speed limit at full throttle. Then let it coast to 30 mph and do it again 9 more times. It never used any oil between changes up until I traded it for a Triumph TR 6 for my daughter. She called the 1955 Olds the BAT MOBILE. Not associated with todays technology I guess but thought it might give you a chuckle.
Great video. I’m learning so much from all your videos! Thanks so much for your time doing the videos.
Lots of good info. I was in Germany some years ago and what they did before they sent the car out the door surprised me. They would put the car on a Dyno and run the car at 75mph for about 5 minutes then move it to the next station. It goes against all I had learned about engine break-in
Thank you Kevin for all the professional education. I need to have my tune checked for sure and go from there.
I just found your channel Kevin, and immediately subbed. I've been binge watching your videos and come away amazed and wiser each time. Thank you.
Thank you! Welcome! Glad to have you.
Another great video. Thanks for the education. I’ve learned so much since subbing your channel. I’ll probably never used most of what I’ve learned, but I love knowing it.
Thank you sir
Best description of ring chatter I've heard, only recently found your videos and have been bingeing. I had a cupboard full of ECU's, injectors and carburetors specifically for running in engines on an engine dyno, each one is specifically tuned for a particular build and marked to get as close as possible to ideal AFR for bedding in, then replaced with the ones belonging to the engine and tuned to match the particular application the engine has been built for. Also send the filter with the oil to be analyzed for metal content, particulate size, ash content etc.. Been retired for a few years now and still dabble when I get the chance, the changes in technology march on, and yet remain much the same regardless. Just bought a new bike (FLSB) with an M-8 and I'm looking forward to stripping it down for a look see, either when it's out of warranty, or when I decide to say stuff it and open it up for a bit of massaging (watched the vid on crank alignment, food for thought) and maybe a few more cubes.
thank you sir. that is a great idea. nice to read about things done proper. good on ya sir!.
I personally break in my new builds on the dyno. Initial start up I’ll throttle up to about 1800 rpm and warm it up to 160°. Then let it cool completely. I’ll do that twice more to 180° with full cooling between each. Then I’ll do the same warm up and run it fairly easy up to 4th gear then with a 10% load I’ll do 20-25% throttle from 1500 to 3000 then fully let off throttle to slow it bavk to 1500. I’ll do that 3 times then cool completely. Next will be the same but to 4000 and then the same to 5500. Complete cool down between each and get progressively more aggressive with throttle input. Once it’s cooled down from the 5500 rpm runs I’ll begin tuning. Corrections in AFR will be made throughout break in as required. I try to keep it around 13.8
Great info .
When I build a new Engine.
I do 4 heat cycles before even ridding the bike .
I then do 25 miles under 2500 rpms 25 miles under 3500 rpms 25 miles vering rpms up and down at highway speeds .
Then 25 miles vering rpms up to 4500 rpms .
Go back to the shop change the oil and filter .
Then ride the bike as normal.
PERFECT!
I'll definitely share.
Just finished my 124" Twin cam S&S build. My local shop definitely ran it threw a few heat cycles. Once done, they had about 30 miles on it. Then, I was told to ride her from about 2500-4500 RPMs. They cautioned me not to go below 2500 RPMs too often, as the engine doesn't like lugging. I'll say, once I started riding her, I definitely felt heard some pinging at the lower RPM ranges. Brought her back to the shop and they told me the ignition timing was a bit strong, and they pulled back a bit. Didn't hear the pinging much after that.
I've got about 280 miles on her now. Wondering what she looks like inside and how the rings sealed. I'd love to be able to send over a sample for testing. Curious how the break in process faired for me.
Thanks for sharing, Kevin. As always, your videos help me understand the what and why, better than anyone else.
Great knowledge and break in process. In the old days some people would say run it hard, for break in. ha! beat it into submission, again that sounds crazy. what I leaned today from your video, is the crosshatch specs. I never knew that. [ I am working on a 1976 shovelhead] Kevin, Thanks for another great video.
Brilliant, very interesting (as always) especially because I bought a new FXLRS 4 weeks ago and been worrying a great deal about this, found myself in the wrong gear a couple of times and slogged it for a couple of seconds, also when overtaking topped 4,000 revs for a few seconds with only 200 miles on the clock. What I would love to know is, do the factory do any test running and what my local dealer probably did on the first 5 miles which were on the clock when I collected the bike?
Many thanks for all your videos.
Once again another excellent viedo. Thank you.
Thanks again! Appreciate the support.
I could listen to Kevin and Dan Fitzmaurice of Zipper’s all day long.
I've heard many places that thrashing an engine very hard after the first heat cycle is conducive to a high performance engine. Corvette's Z06 is broken in on a race track up to redline minutes after first startup.
I don't have the balls to do it to my own bike if I spend several grand on internals but I do trust that method fully because most all of the heavy breaking in is done in the first few minutes/miles. Honing takes a while and I've heard cases of bikes taken apart at 50k miles with cross hatching still present. Its evidence that it should/could have been broken in harder and achieved higher performance.
Geat video and lots of info to digest....however most people don't have the equipment or knowledge to monitor air/fuel ratios whilst riding the first 30 or so miles. Either one can dial that in at a local shop before the rebuild or trust the initial factory tune and hope for the best ratios.
As always, Great information. So I take it that a new Harley off the showroom, just vary the RPM and speed for the first 500 miles and change the oil at 1000 miles and call it good.
Kevin, my experience has been from automotive, by adjusting or varying the speed from 20 mph to 30 mph dropping it down then continuing maybe 25 to 35 then slowly increasing the speed but, keeping it under 60 for the first 500 miles. I continued the process with my bikes and seem to have an advantage after break in over everything I raced. Start with my brother's GTO then my 454 El Camino to my first Z1 900 bored to 1040 now to my Supercharged V Rod Muscle which You are going to help me with the maping when I am ready. Great series thanks.
My man....a car guy. As you know, that along with bikes has been in the blood since birth. I would agree with most of that especially with auto engines. I practiced that as well with air cooled bike engines as well but started to notice many years ago, that my procedure had to be modified for various reasons to break it in quicker. One, air cooled engines require more fuel than liquid cooled. Example...those cars you list, id tune AFR around 14.2 give or take at idle, and between that and 14.5 at cruise. These engines require 13.4 to 13.8 at idle and 14.1 give or take at cruise to keep them cool. So with the richer required mixture, I found if i break them in more aggressively, i get a better leakdown and CCP after break in than doing it using a slower less aggressive method. Great comment James...thank you so much for taking the time and for the sub. I look forward to hearing more from you.
when i bought my harley they pretty much told me what you said as to the 500 miles. cool.
Yeah same here. But does Harley start the engine at the factory? I know the first few minutes are important and dealership mechanics should ride a new bike for ~13 miles (or so I’ve been told).
When I purchased my 2020 Heritage, it had 1 mile on it! BTW, I about passed out when all the salesman celebrated my purchase by starting a new bike and revving the engine at high rpms! I purchased a 2021 SGS and you should have seen how the salesman treated the new bike he used to go on a test ride with me. Crazy!
Anyway, awesome video! I really appreciate your level of knowledge and professionalism.
That's great info thanks for the hard work putting this together. Got a complete S&S motor coming and I will follow their breakin process to the T.
Glad to help
You are an excellent teacher Kevin!!!
Great video, my break in on my 22 ultra was a 48 mile ride to the house, 2 weeks later it was loaded up for a trip to south west North Carolina, then 1100 miles on mountain roads, Harley said it would be fine, after watching this, now I’m worried
Great video. FYI... I just purchased two of your Baxter Garage T-Shirts. I'll make sure I'm wearing one next time I visit RDS.
Heck yeah man. I saw that come thru. I really appreciate it. I'll be up at RDS later this summer. Rob is a great fella and trusted friend. Have a great deal of respect for him.
Perfect and thanks so much for taking time to explain this. I knew most of it you put it all together extremely well as you do,,
02 cvo wide glide 88TC 1st engine build (before UA-cam). 585 s&s 95 ci piston & jugs Mikuni carb. I was given so much bad info and advice on jetting, break in and assembly that the rear cylinder decintigrated within 10 min. (Not Blaming, My responsibility!!!)
1. Told to Port heads and intake by hand.
2. Larger valves and jetting not needed for this build.
3. Clutch would be fine. I could go to belt drive if I wanted.
4. No break in required.
Got several how to references based on popular TV shows of the time. And automotive references as well.
$$$LESSON LEARN!!$$
Man hate to hear of your bad experiences. I would like to offer this...if anyone ever gives you advice on this stuff, always ask them why. If you ask enough why's you'll eventually get to one of 3 things....either that's the way I've always done it, that's my opinion or how i was told, or you get facts and true explanations that can be confirmed. I'd trust the last one most. Wish you better luck sir.
on mikuni carb jetting .Go to SUDCO for all jets.
@@KevinBaxter Thanks for all the great videos, Kevin. Incidentally, the "five whys" technique was originally developed by the Toyota Motor Corporation to evaluate its manufacturing methodologies. The idea is that the answer to the fifth "why" question will reveal the root cause of the problem being encountered.
I bought a 2020 new Harley davidson lowrider 107.i already have 12,700 miles on it beautiful motor.i the tech at Harley davidson dealer.in Effingham ilinios told me to just keep it under 3,500 ram the first 1,000 miles and under 50 mph the first 50 miles no issues with the bike at all.
Another very informative video. Great job explaining in a way I found very useful. 👍👍
thank you
I ride them as normal shift as normal, get on throttle a few short times, but I don't tend to beat on my bikes often or for long, but let's face it its fun as heck to twist that throttle once or twice when we ride !
Excellent info, Thanks Kevin.
Ok ,since you asked: for other bikes.... Yamaha Bolt, ( 2019 spec, as mine sits : 58 cubes, 59.3 foot pounds at 3000 rpm , 5870 rpm, 65 hp,107 mph, wet weight 547 pounds, 27 inch seat height, 30 inch bar spread. meaning 22 inches between your thumbs, .... mid controls, rake 29 degrees, lean angle 37 degrees left and right) , Spec says : first 600 kms, no more than 1/3 throttle, .... We assume here 1800 rpm. ( max-wrist is 120 degrees of twist..... No Tach ....), for the first 600 kilometres. Change oil and filter. Then same , but not more than 1/2 throttle for the next 400 kms.... lol. So assumed if max-wrist is 5870 rpm, ( which I repeat, is max torque for bike . 59.3 ft #s.then 1/2 wrist for this is going to lug the engine if you aren't paying attention. stay off the highways ... ha!) .... so ok..Then oil and filter change. then at 1600 kms do same, filter-oil change and "good-to -go , ride as normal . To quote Yamaha " Has Ceramic coated cylinders: and I use 10W-50 oil, in all changes . Must be that the cylinders are RMS 16 or RMS 8 finishes to get the required sealing to occur. Bike works awesomely .... except for that "Yamaha-Tick".
I'm thinking that the valve clearance on the valves was "upped" by ).002 to 0.004 " on the inlet and outlets to prevent new-user trashing the engine. ?? Bugs the crap out of me why Yammy would do that ...... why not just key the fuel injection system to rev-limit during break-in period, .... ugghhh.
Stay Safe!!
W
anytime specialty coated cyls or pistons are thrown in the mix, different break in procedures can be necessary. There are many factors....too many to really squeeze into a video.
On My Harley's I Basically Do what you said Including Decels which Seals my Rings and All Moving parts Perfect to where my bikes have Way Above Average Power , No to Very Little Oil Usage and Very High Milage . On Sport bike where Manufacturer Recommends a given Rpm by Specific Mileage I'll Calculate the Length/ Mileage of Rides and Incrementally add Say 500 RPM each Ride to my Break in Procedure which may take me up to Several weeks mainly do to Duration of Rides which vary Around 70 Miles each Ride..And even after Break in I'll Ensure that at least Once During my Ride I'll Redline my Bike in two / three Gears then Allow for full Cool down..
I just did a 98” on my 05 efi dyna and on the heat cycles get it to operating Temp four times letting it cool in between? Has wiseco forged piston ring kit no coding I have a power vision so I should be able to get the AFr at the 13.8-14.1 o and my cylinders were plateau honed they also used torque plates hillside did the jugs i’m getting very mixed opinions on this some say do not let it get to running temp for the heat cycles but I’ve been watching your videos for a few weeks and it seems to me really know your stuff thank you for all your help and knowledge you have helped me a lot and have educated me a lot through these videos
Wow thats cool.
I had a 63 Panhead. That break in was Go a quarter mile turn around home. Wait for it to cool over night. Torque the cylinder Bolts etc. From memory I did each step twice. Then Go half a mile, turn around home, same thing. Then 3/4 etc out to 5miles. Arfter all that change the oil. Then I could Go for small rides Until I got to 1000 miles. Change oil again. Then I was Good to Go lol. Pain in the bum. Not to mention the dual point set up needing to be adjusted every 700 miles of riding lol. I luvd that bike but I reckon I kicked it as far as I rode it . Ahr kick starts lol
This may seem odd , you just explained the exact break in I have run for 30+ years (except the fuel injection of course) , only I generally don't use assembly line at all . I assemble using only the engine oil that I'm running in the engine (Royal Purple) except the oil pump . There I use Royal Purple assembly lube . All of my buddies that build their own motors wonder why my motors always run stronger and longer , I tell them it's the break in .
I had no idea this was so critical in the very first few miles! Harley’s demo ride policy precludes most of us to take delivery of a zero miles bike. Who knows what the other test riders did to evaluate how a bike feels or performs. Salesman can’t ride along like in a car to supervise reasonable driving habits. I suppose as the new owner we could ask for engine oil analysis and leak down tests etc before we took delivery but if they came back out of spec, assuming a dealership told us the truth of those test results, the motor company would be left with a bike the couldn’t sell without a new engine(downside!) or a real reason to deny warranty claims due to probable improper break-in(upside)... Never happen prolly but maybe other manufactures “no test ride” policies now make some real sense. My “new” ‘17 M8 bought in late ‘18 had relatively many test ride miles on it already. By chance I essentially did your procedure til 1000 miles after I took possession. Time will tell.
Very well explained, without a doubt. 👌
I just had catastrophic failure of my 114” Harley engine. And the more I watch your videos, the less I want to put more miles on that bike, till you or someone like you worked that motor towards bulletproofing the engine.
Maybe I’ll just sell it and buy a Metric.
Well that was awesome I got a 21 road glide special and every 2 or 300 miles it starts chug a lugging so it's only 10 months old with 11 thousand miles so I'm ordering a 131 screaming eagle stage 4 crate engin for it what is the difference between oil cooling and air cooling the air cooled one is slightly more expensive which one should I get if you could just let me know I would really appreciate it thank you for your time Kevin your awesome 👌
It may be too late to get this question answered here BUT:
After watching, we learned that the 3rd, or bottom ring(s), hold oil and apply a somewhat exact film amount to the cylinder wall to lubricate the top 2 rings and that they are expanded outward by crank case pressure to seal just right. I have also be advised elsewhere that it is a "must" on M8 engines to vent/reduce this same crank case pressure either through a dip stick vent or modification to the stock head breather system to atmosphere vs. into the intake as in the the stock system.
QUESTION: How does venting the crankcase adversely affect the function of the 3rd(bottom) piston ring on an M8 engine - mine is a 2020 Road King 107. Thanks
Thanks. It isn't a must to vent...not all of them have the problem. I'm chuckling a bit over all this...its not an M8 specific issue. Twin Cams used to blow the dipsticks out before they started threading the dipstick back in 07. As bore size increases, at some point, the stock breather system cant handle the pressure. Something has to give. I was putting 2nd PCV valves in rocker boxes 15 yrs ago. Much of the issue is excessive blow by on poorly machined stock cylinders or low tension compression rings. I digress...if crank pressure isn't relieved it will cause sumping issues, blow by, etc. Carbon buildup between and on top of rings.
@@KevinBaxter Right, we all know about these issues BUT your video got me thinking about how eliminating crank case pressure might effect bottom (oiling) ring sets ability to do its job by not expanding properly is the question?
wish I saw this when I got my first bike and listened to my friends and "rode it like I stole it" this bike will be done diff
Always great information Kevin, thanks for the education.
Great break in tips. Will use!
Loved the level of detail and "why" you shared. Not sure how you are able to use a bore scope during break in. But, loved it as I believe the break-in is massively important towards ending up with a good motor. I have 102k miles on a TC88A. Wear is at 16%. Uses no oil. I was old skool ... low RPM (progressively higher and varied), changed oil @ 1k miles and then to synthetic. Over-serviced after that (2k vs 5k changes).
Curious as to $'s charged for the break-in that you do, and how much time it takes. Thx for the vid. Love the extensive knowledge level.
Years ago I had a laCar 4 cylinder , car had about 25000 miles on it all the pistons looked like someone took a hacksaw to them and cut slots parallel to the rod through the rings . I machined the ends of the pistons ,removing the ring groves, I then welded the metal back in with aluminum ,machined the ring groves into the new metal and installed new rings , engine ran for about 60,000 miles with no problems.
Sounds like my break in got effed off from the gate. Had a faulty 02 (wideband) that caused the bike to stall and not idle for the first few miles, it was running quite rich as well, didn't change the break in oil until about 200 miles either. Builder also told me not to go above 3,500 RPMs in the first 500 as well.
Kevin i have a 2012 tri-glide, 103, tuner, true duels, air cleaner . i am going to replace rings and hone jugs . "oil burning". want to put gear drive cams but don't think it will take them. i don't have it pulled apart yet. so can i put gear drive on cams at rear of cam chest and chain from front so i don't have to worry with tensioner on rear of cam chest ? i am 6'3 380 and wife is 140 what would be a good cam that i can put in ? we do a lot of travel and sometimes i pull a trailer. thank you for all you do. love your videos.
I would only hone the jugs if...there is enough material to allow for it without exceeding piston clearance spec, if the cylinder isn't tapered too much, etc. Often, they are so far out, your effort will be wasted. Honestly...take off cylinders are cheap. Maybe 50 bucks. Find a set of 88 or 96 inch used cyls (3.75 bore), have them bored and honed to your current pistons if they spec right, then install new rings. I have many cores I could sell you for 50 bucks. 250 to bore and hone but youd want to send me your pistons to measure. As for the cam...a few choices. If you can, shoot me an email to kevin@protwin.com and I'll send you information tomorrow. Thanks.
Great video, heat cycling is what I've been told works on rebuilds, What about a new motor tthat'salready been on the dyno or in the test lab at the factory and has been taken right through the rev range to check for issues. Isn't that motor broken in already?
As a consumer I have all that equipment available for me to follow all your advice. Yé!