man i wish there was a kevin and doc harley at every HD dealership. I have never had the luck of dealing with a mechanic or tech with the level of expertise and just basic decency of these guys. wish you were in VA sir!
Great topic and great explanation. But the more I hear you talk about tuning, the biggest thing I take away, is finding a tuner who really actually knows what there doing. It’s difficult because how do you tell the difference between someone who really knows what there doing, and someone who really thinks they know what there doing!!!
Nail on the head sir. One of the best ways to know, is the questions the tuner asks you BEFORE he does the tune. Things like how you ride, what you weight, etc....if hes asking the questions, that means he knows his tune needs to be done a certain way.
@@KevinBaxter I'd really like to hear more on this topic...... How to interview (for lack of better words) a tuning "professional" to find the guy that really knows his stuff. I'm running a ThunderMax ECM.... and they are all about the Auto Tune capability of this unit and the vast collection of maps they have to email you based on your bike and the aftermarket equipment you have added. They (Cycle Solutions) offer a free dyno tune to go with the ThunderMax ....... but I'd have to drive to Daytona to take advantage of that Offer. My focus is on the longevity of my engine and torgue.... with longevity being the first priority.
I recently did the Harley Stage 4 128 Big Bore kit. I previously had Stage 2 performance cam running HD Pro Street Tuner and HD Smart Auto Tuner. Did a Dyno first thing, then the break-in period of 500 miles 2,500 rpms, then rode for 1,700 miles in all types of riding conditions. At that point, I had the data dumped from the Smart Auto Tuner into the ECM and SWEET CHRISTMAS did it wake that bike up!!! It runs great in normal conditions and then will turn into BEAST MODE once you get into the throttle. Overall, I am very satisfied with the whole setup. Got to respect the power.
Thank you SO much for this presentation. I have been systematically tuning my bike using the SESPRT. I started with a base map provided by Harley for stage 1. Then, took the bike for a ride to record data. I found the AFR WAY too lean and confirmed with plug condition. I reduced the Stoiciometric from 14.6 (in the base map) to 14.1. Now the engine is getting the fuel it needs. The plugs confirm this; and so does 'seat of the pants'. Since then, I have increased the cranking fuel and acceleration fuel. My oil temp is now averaging 30 degrees cooler; and my head temps are average 40 degrees cooler. I am still in the process of monitoring to get the tune as good as I can, but WOW what a difference. Also: according to the plugs, the timing looks to be correct.
I totally agree on your views and appreciate for making this video. Having said that, I also expect to know what is the alternative tuning solution for a common rider who wishes to upgrade his bike or wishes for more performance. Not everyone living all around the world are blessed to live at places where there are masters like Kevin Baxter around them :) As a layman how do I make sure that my bike is running on a map that is safe for the engine and is performing to its best? At the moment the only option I have on hand is a canned map from the tuner company. I strongly suggest that you please make another video on how to retune a canned map, how to manually tune the bike in real time, how to change the values ourselves manually and the basic points to check to ensure the engine is not running in a risky state. You are the only one on UA-cam I see for having this potential in explaining us these solutions. Thanks a ton and keep these great videos coming. Cheers!
Thank you for the comment and for your suggestion. As you've gathered from me....im blunt and straightforward. That is an excellent idea, but it's also me teaching the world a specialized skill that took me 30 years to develop. I have absolutely no problem sharing this information with customers who purchase their parts and systems from us. Im sure you understand. I've traveled the entire world teaching shops these methods...all 4 corners...and they utilize those methods today...but I was compensated to do so of course.
I do also offer 1 on 1 tech support by phone and TeamViewer across the web. I charge an hourly fee for that by appointment and as time allows of course.
Great to see your reply Kevin. Your message is loud and clear. Knowledge and experience are truly the greatest assets in this technical world, and I agree with you that they can’t always be just shared for no benefit. Offering 1 on 1 remote solution sessions is a great boon to the needy riders. Will get in touch with you to utilize this opportunity. I’m right now looking to buy the best air cleaner for my 2018 FLHTK stage 2. Would you mind suggesting 1 or 2 models with the highest flow rate please? Thanks again!
Well said. I doubt anyone could have shared this information more clearly. Kevin nailed it. I have been working with engines almost everyday for 40+ years. Maybe a decade or so more. Yes. Lots of variables. Manufacturer just set a best case average in the ecm programs. Most are after epa numbers and not what the engine needs.
I once had dyna and got stage one on it. After getting the dyno tune I road it on the highway and it pulled pretty well but deceleration it was popping all over the place, so I took it back to Harley and they recon they tested it and said there’s nothing wrong with it but I know they were just lazy technicians so I went and got it tuned by a professional motorcyclist and never looked back. Thanks for your brilliant commentary, it was very well explained.
Spot on, we call it optimization. Always tune using partial throttle percentages under variable loads and full throttle power pulls. Smoothing not at 5 simply because I'm looking for other power robbing issues.
You R PRICELESS! I have to look at this a few more times then take some notes. I love your deep dive approach. Your experience and wisdom comes though. When I was at Morehouse, they use to say, “Gather around the fountain of wisdom…and just let yourself get wet.” I am very late to the game, but I am finally living the dream. Disappointed, cookie cutter retail Harley experience. I will get the bike I want from the following build. Wood 22XE, S&S plate, pump, tensioner, tappets, tappet rings, SE heavy breather, SE tune, TBR Turnout. I will be looking for you, Sir. 2020 Fat Boy
Kevin I do like your honesty about tuning great information just wished I could have learned this stuff when I was young keep up the great work never stop helping people you are one of a kind
I was thinking of getting my bike dyno tuned until I found his wonderful video on reading plugs. I have a 2018 gsxr 1000R with 7K on the odometer. Did my first plug change a couple days ago. They look text book great. The so called factory lean tune must not be so. If the motor ran lean from the factory it should have shown up on the plugs. Another excellent informative video. Thanks
Very good information! This is exactly what we talked about for a goal for my motor... who cares what number it makes, I just want it to perform well and live long. And, it looks like that's my motor sitting on the table in front of you in the video! Very excited for this build. Thanks again KB
Great content. I recently went from a 1340 to a '99 TC88 with CV carb. Been riding an real worlding for 40+ years. Got the shop to start it, mechanically sweet as a sewing machine but didn't need to ride it to know it was way off. Got it delivered and start again with fresh fuel,new plugs and clean air filter. Must have been a very disappointing introduction to Harley by the previous owner who traded a BMW for it.
Thanks Kevin. Again the more information videos you make the more informed we get. Never really sure the FP3 I have in my 08 softail custom is doing what they say.
Often, when something is very easy to use, that means you are giving up something...simplicity often requires compromise. And like Forest Gump says....."Thats all i gots to say about that". LOL
Totally agree with the "shrouded in mystery and confusion". I will never understand people who spend $1000+ on pipes, $500+ on an intake, and several thousand on cam(s) and top end parts, etc, then balk at spending $500-1000 on a tuning device and dyno tune. And, sadly, there are still those who subscribe to the flawed concept of "break it in first then get it dyno tuned".
$500-$1000 for a dyno tune is absolutely absurd! There is mathematical theory that can be utilized to measure the incremental time between different mph that allows one to use their bike and the hiway as the dyno for free. I doubt many hairy backs would be interested in this method because they want that graph and peak numbers to throw around at the keg party. Harleys are geared extremely high to please the EPA and the first order of business is to gear the bike down if you want better acceleration. This needs done before a finger is ever laid on the engine, but you never hear it mentioned, just AC, pipes, cams, tune and headwork. It’s all a money grab and people line up to throw their hard earned money at somebody to enhance their image! 😂
@@trailerparkcryptoking5213that is the most uninformed babble I have ever heard. Wow. it's so bad I really don't know where to start. What magic gear makes the bike faster? Lol really though what if you want more top end and a touch more speed vs acceleration? How do these gears adjust air fuel ratio? How in the world do you know what timing to use when you can't measure torque? Theory, math? 😅 What is this theory and does it take into account, humidity air temperature, throttle position and load? Oh I can't wait to hear your answer
No doubt ! What I hear is ya wanna get that correct AFR dialed in as fast as possible when a new motor is built. Few heat cycles and on it goes to the rollers to get AFR. I’m not a tuner but been around some to know enough that I don’t know enough and that a newly built motor needs to be broke in correctly right away .. after 50mi or something break in is done .. those rings are seated as they are gonna be. Baby it for 500mi and ya got a loose motor If I’m incorrect please correct me on this
I am enjoying where you are going with this so far. I am an old mechanical FI tuner from Exotic Car world trying to adapt myself to the modern Bosch FI tech used on my 2020 HD. THE difference is the data available from the bike! My bike is now able to tell me what it needs together with what I want, unlike the super cars of the bygone era. Even my old dragster was mechanical FI! LOL I do not miss the days of manual calculations and Pill changes! I do need to bone up. I am hoping you are among the people that Weill be my guiding light to help me get the very best of of my bike, for my circumstances. Thx! K
Well sir...i do auto videos on occasion as well. Working on my Chevelle now, may be swapping to EFI on it....but yes, there will be some auto content as well. As for the later stuff...i'll keep it coming.
Never thought about dyno engine tuning other than obtaining peak performance! Thank you so much for opening my eyes 👀 👍👍 It makes total sense! Everything you say! Now, do you know anyone in So Cal who can do all those things you talked about , and of course, do it right?! ........I gotta watch it again🧐☝️
Awesome! You have at least two doctorets in the internal combustion engine. The way you explain what's happening is so detailed. All measuring tools can lie to you the one thing that can't is the spark plugs. Reading the plugs conferms your tools were accurate. I'm certain you do this just the one thing you didn't say. Thank you... More videos please!
I purchased my 2013 FLHTK new and almost immediately felt my engine was not running correctly. I heard what I believed to knocking or detonation and explained my concerns to the dealer. I was told a dyno tune was the answer and their tuner could work magic. Long story short, I spent lots of money on stage one performance mods and still felt something was wrong. This is when I realized how difficult it was to find an experienced tuner and how easy it was to waste my money. Kevin, I wish you were closer but I feel fortunate to have RDS as my hands-on shop and this youtube channel to further my knowledge.
I’m gonna have to watch this again although I think I understand. I want my bike to be the best it can be for as long as possible. But I’m guessing that the most important decision I have to make is choosing the right mechanic.
You are the "Cat's Meow" Sir. That DTT tuner that you programmed for my 02 Night Train made an incredible difference, smoother and more powerful all the way around. I also can't thank you enough for recommending Rob in Gardner MA, he'll be putting the finishing touches on next month. Well, fall is coming in quickly and you must be looking forward to a few games "between the hedges", UGA is my favorite SEC team. Thanks for sharing and paying it forward Kevin, always a pleasure.
Great stuff Kevin. Reviewing Data logs and making adjustments as I see fit has been the best way to get my bike running it’s best. Plus it’s a blast to do
Best information ever! New sub here...Just got an 07 electra glide with power vision and was thinking...hmm, I'll use autotune to dial this in to my riding. Nevermind that idea lol
Kevin! Wow. You’re the analytical guy I’ve been looking for! Your videos are so detailed and easy to follow. I’m in Tennessee but I’d seriously consider buying a build from you one day. I’m such a DIY guy, but your knowledge is valuable. Thanks!
Thanks for the great video, lots of good info., and thanks for the great tune on my Skunkworks build. Thanks to you my engine is built and tuned perfectly, and that was proven on the oil analysis report. Have a great week-end sir, hope to see all you great folks next week. ..LT
Kevin thank you for sharing so much of your knowledge and passion with all of your many videos. You have tought me a great deal about Harley Davidsons so thank you again. You are so wright about tuning on a Dyno, it is not a magic bullet. A machine is only as good as the person who is running it. I'm old school when it comes to tunning , with carburators. My problem is I am not good with computers so that makes it impossible for tunning EFI. So my problem is I had a bad experience with my SE VRod when I took it to a shop to have it dynoed and when I got it back while I was riding with my friends they told me that I had fuel shooting out of my exhaust at first I told them that they were full of it because it wasn't missing and I would of thought with that much fuel it would of been running so fat with black smoke but it wasn't so the injector must of been firing at the wrong time I guess not sure. So I took it back to the Dyno shop and told them what was going on and they checked it out and they told me that some how the power commander lost its settings and I asked what was going to keep it from doing it again and they said don't worry it won't ever happen again that it was locked now. Here is my experience with EFI on a HD. Now I'm dealing with my 2000 RK with the Magneti Marelli EFI and it needs some tunning, decel poping and random miss fire at cruzing. So my question is do I get a tunner and have it dynoed or switch it over to carb with a new ignition if so which ign. I've read a lot of negative things about the mm EFI. Your apinion would be much appreciated thanks! PS I ordered a t shirt a couple weeks ago to support your fund raiser and haven't received any information or confirmation keep up the great work!
MM systems are very sensitive. They MUST be set up correctly before the tuning even starts. There are for more steps to setting up MM than just tuning it. Unfortunately, much of that knowledge base has been lost over the years. I know only VERY FEW people that still know how to do this on MM.
Thanks Kevin , you said what needed to be said. I have said the same thing on cars for years and I always get slack over it . But I I have provided it . Especially when it comes to street racing.. in mexico of course 😉. Great video Thanks
Great video Kevin 👍 I worked at a shop in N. FL where I re-tuned a lot of bikes that were 'custom tuned?' at a well known Dealership. People thought that since they were a dealership they would automatically, magically "know how to tune"...LOL... It was amazing how far off most of their tunes were. Lacking power, response and in some cases TERRIBLE fuel mileage.
Hey Kevin, just watched this latest video, in fact this morning I watched several of the tear downs of 103's and 110's. Anyways I have to agree with you on the necessity of a Dyno tune.. I have a Power vision on my 2013 FXDBP with a 103 that I made upgrades to. Including Stage II heads and a set of Woods TW 5-6 cams.. My compression is at 10.16:1. Anyways I tried tuning myself with the power vision being new to fuel injected bikes I never had any issues with carbureted evos shovels been doing them a long time with a wego 3. However the fuel injected bikes are different and the bigger inch motors are more set susceptible to detonation and temperature.. It is an art to try to get these tuned. And I agree with you that Auto-Tune really is nothing, It's all in how you can manipulate the tables to get your motor to run smoothly.. I even went as far as trying to get it Dino tuned by a reputable tuner and it actually seemed to be very sluggish and was worse than when I brought it there. So I started teaching myself even more on how to tune and I played with the tables timing air fuel ratios as well as VE tables and I think I was able to reach a very satisfactory point in my tune. If someday you'd like to discuss this further I could send everything that I data logged and we can use that as a basis in the future possibly help others. It really took me a long time to tune it this way.. It's not a one-day fix, It takes writing, data logging, more changes to the VE tables, ignition tables and AFR tables and more data logging.. It's a long process but once you reach that point of good performance good, fuel mileage and low temperatures and good throttle response You know you have a good tune.. If you'd like to discuss this more let me know I'm sure we can somehow get together.. But thanks for your video You're very honest there about Dyno tuning and who the real operator is, it's not the Dyno machine.. Lol..
As always with your other videos this was super-informative. I just had a Stage 2 installed in my 2011 Fatboy and also upgrade from the V&H FP3 to the Dynojet PV3. Thanks for sharing Mr. Baxter. Keep doing a great job.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the way Kevin describes his topics takes me back to high school when I wish I had him teaching me algebra versus the teacher I had that would knock you in the head with your math book.Kevin is correct I did a 107 build on a 2010 road glide custom when complete had the Builder Dyno it And it ran quite nice 7000 or 8000 miles later I took it to a top Midwest tuner/builder and had a custom map done with my power vision Surprisingly the Dino numbers came in less than the original tune but it ran better I just did a stage two torque cam to a new M8. 114 it runs really nice it has a screaming eagle tuner and smart tune For the way I ride currently I’m fine with this set up I’ll report back after the warranty is up thank you Kevin oh and I went to summer school for algebra that year ride safe
Freedom Rider Yeah man I can’t wait. After watching Kevin’s videos I realized the attention to detail he has. IMO that’s what makes great dependable engine. Enjoy that new Skunk Works build!
Thanks for making sense of all this dyno hype we fall into sometimes me included, what kind of method do you use to record the data to tune a bike mentioned on number 4 you talk about here thank you much Kevin ?
Man I’d love to get the equipment necessary for you to get the “perfect tune” on my bike ride it all the way to you for that tune. Focusing on a longevity/performance balance.
Absolutely awesome!!! Great starting point for tuning. Keep it coming. Love it man!!!! Just like back in the day with the "Sun" engine analyzer scopes. One tech would view the pattern and say plugs gap wrong...another tech would look at scope and say idle mixture wrong..etc. The scope....and Dyno are a tool. It still takes a tech with good experience to best use the tools at hand. As Kevin knows...I'm not a max Dyno numbers guy.....it's the area below the curve that matters to me. Can't wait for the next video!!!
Thank you Max. I had one of those Sun cabinets myself years ago. A huge machine for only doing a few things. Individual cyl kill, cyl KV, etc....oh the memories of setting dwell on points. LOL
Great video. My tuner used the record function of my se super tuner to massage the se stage 2 base tune we installed when i upgraded the cam on my m8. We also fitted a hd smart tuner to see how it went. The bike runs great everywhere with the smart tuner coming into its own when big changes in altitude are encountered after a mile or two it is noticeable that the bike adjusts. We haven't dynoed it yet as i agree peak hp is not relevant but we are going to just for giggles and to check torque figures.
That's one way to do it...but remember...that uses narrow band sensors and averages. Wide band data is required to perfectly tune outside of 14.6-1 give or take a little. But, that is certainly better than nothing.
This sort of backs up what I’ve been hearing for years. I never knew how trustworthy some of the dyno tuners were. I’ve heard the stories of showing different results, but people not being aware that results were from the operator using different gears for the runs. I appreciate your knowledge about having a mechanic that actually understands the many different variables involved in tuning correctly.
Yeah boy there are a shit load of snake salesman that push dyno tuning & I lost count on how many that were tuning by dyno masters, them put on the street & runs like shit And especially at the racetrack lol, then I re tune bam got a customer for life
with using a dyno utilizing the eddie brake to simulate load and collect date throughout your rpm range, you can still achieve a spot on tune with a talented tuner
I just sent my 06 StreetGlide in to Killer Creek for a tuner and dyno. Wish I would have watched this sooner. I just wanted it to run good and last a long time. I Don’t care about speed and max hp. Hopefully I will still get the results I’m looking for.
My bike came with a V&H tuner and it ran terrible so I changed the map, attempted to use the auto tune feature, sent the map to V&H for review, they sent me back an adjusted locked map and in the email stated, the auto tune feature cannot tune the moto as well as our dyno tune techs. I sent back a response asking why even have the auto tune feature then? They never replied but your video certainly explains what they did not want to reveal. Thanks for the video and explaining the tuning process. I did not purchase the tuner, it came with the bike but I think I will look for a reputable tuner instead of relying on the plug and play over hyped method of tuning. I'm not confident that the bike has the best overall tune for the health and longevity of the bike.
Well presented. Thanks. So how do you suggest us “riders/wrencher’s find a competent tuner? Are there any benchmark, tell tale, signs that the bike is, in fact, running correctly? Could you put another video together addressing this? I’d like to have it done but have had no luck finding a guy I can trust with my bike.
A few key points.....cylinder head temp around 300-325 measured at the base of the plug after a 10 min moderate ride. you should see 38 to 42 mpg riding conservatively. oil shouldnt smell like gas. plugs should be clean. see my how to read a spark plug video....that'll answer much of your question.
Kevin Baxter thank you. Seems mine is running correctly. Plugs are what you described as ideal. Utilizing a Powervision, and Fuel Moto supplied tune for my stage 2, with the head temp in that range. 45mpg average depending on load and how rambunctious I am feeling. Runs like a top through all the rpm range. Your comments in the video about bike appearing to run nicely, but actually harming the internals, had me a bit concerned. Thanks for being so helpful and forthcoming with your knowledge.
It may not be a bad idea to locate a shop in your area and just ask them what they would charge you to confirm AFRs. Tell them the bike seems to run good so you most likely dont need a full tune. Just confirmation that its safe. Could be thru a couple pulls on the dyno and some steady state testing, or, install wideband sensors in your pipes and record data while you ride. Either way, that will confirm what the AFRs are. Also...read plugs (see prior video), and listen for detonation. 38-42mpg, oil shouldnt smell like gas.
Looks like I need to invest into a power vision with the target tune so I can accurately tune my bike. I currently just have a power commander 5 on my 07 heritage and with no o2 sensors I am just hoping the tune from dynojet is correct!
Kevin, Super informative video, thank you! I'm just getting back into riding after 2 decades and bought a 2019 Heritage Classis M-107. I am planning to make basic stage-I upgrades (intake, 2 into 1 header/pipes and tune). I was thinking I'd go with the FP3-Fuelpak starting w/ one of the canned tunes but then working through the auto-tune process based on my riding the bike. After watching this video I'm not nearly as confident about this approach. I'm curious what your thoughts/recommendations might be (I really did watch the video....LOL). If you happen to know any good tune shops in the Denver metro area let me know, I'm reading through forums and reviews now. Thanks again, I love what I've seen of the channel thus far and just hit that "subscribe" button ;-)
When i tll customers that the end all be all is not the dyno they look at me like im crazy. I use the very same analogy of a treadmill. Many humans can run 10miles on a machine however canr run 3 miles in real world conditions. A dyno is just a tool and estimating machine. Like you said we can skew rhe numbers very easily.
Thank you so much KB for explaining things in a way even I can understand and I can't wait for more of the same. You are a shining light in the darkness of V Twin know how and it's a pity you can't network that knowledge to other countries, especially Oz. I'm still a fan of my Thundermax because it does collect data and allows my input, so now I just need to learn how to use that data. It also allows me to change pipes and cams easily without being raped at the dealership. I'm not interested in being the quickest as I only want a reliable, long and short distance ride. So far so good.
Thank you Jim. In the right hands, nothing wrong with a TMax. Most of these systems do the exact same thing regardless of brand with a few pros and cons/bells and whistles, etc. Regardless, if you have a means to monitor afr thru wide band sensors, and the knowledge to know what to set timing to and afr command, and ecm data logging, it'll work just fine.
If my stock bike ran FANTASTIC with stock jetting & mufflers and I went from a 4 1/4" stroke to a 4 5/8" stroke do you think the stock jetting will need to be changed? I honestly think it'll run stronger and shouldn't have any impact but figured I'd ask anyhow.
You mention that you don't need a dyno, just collect the real world data and make determinations from there. So how does one gather the real world data? What tool do you use to capture the information?
Thank you, sir! I am trying to learn what I can about tuning so that I can be better at doing my own tuning, and maybe help someone out if I can along the way. I have the Dynojet Power Vision on my 2014 Deluxe 103. Stock engine with slip-ons with torque inserts and free flowing air cleaner.
I've got a dyna wide glide with the 103 as well. Great engine to play with. I have the screamin eagle heavy breather intake , v&h big radius pipes, and screamin eagle cams, bike runs awesome. How do you like the power commander? From what I've heard it's great. I'm a mechanic, and a few years back we were installing a ton of the v&h fuel packs. They were pretty cool, they had a book with all kinds of different maps depending on engine size, pipes, and intake. That was back in 2010, I'm sure that power commander vision has alot more flexibility.
After watching this video, and learning more about tuning, i don't think i can trust anyone around me to tune my bike. every shop i see advertise "DYNOTUNE" MAXIMUM POWER. i'll have to get some wideband sensors and log some data with the power vision...most likely reach out to you here sometime this summer about that 1on1 consulting service. after it warms up a bit, still pretty chilly here in ohio.
Im curious how to go about spark advance tuning on the street? What parameters are you looking at to get a safe ignition tune that produces power but avoids knock?
Wow that was very interesting at least. So in most cases dyno tuned is for power, speed and tork. Peak. I think your right most of us haven't clue. I love the fact that was brought up, what do most mechanics Do! Also does my infotainment system do recording of riding proformance? Maybe it should if not.
Kevin as always great information. I have Dynojet target tune installed and the bike seems to run OK. I only know the basics and have wondered how do I change the timing for optimised running of the engine. Hopefully the target tune is taking care of the fuel and air. I’m in Australia with no good tuners close to me. Is it possible to record some running time and send to a good tuner to optimise the tune. Always look forward to your videos
Chris...i offer a service where i can review your maps, talk you thru the tuning process, etc...a consulting service if you will. If youre interested in that 1 on 1, email kevin@protwin.com to discuss. thanks.
I had my bike tuned twice and each time I can see and feel the inexperience in both shops. But if there is no real tuners around that's what we got to deal with. My recent tune created a check engine light. The code said rich for both cylinders. My bike would randomly chock itself off idle accleration. Nothing really repeatable but still repeatable. Shop thought it was some electrical issue, which I figured wasn't. He told me to use the quick tune to lean out 5% on low and mid. I thought that was extreme and did a 3% test and immmediately the bike got worse. I used some of my knowledge of tuning RC engines and richened the lowend. This immediately cured the issue. I then flashed back to my dyno days with RC engines and getting them to perform on the dyno was NOT what you'd run on the track. It's tuned to the dyno run and not real world. Basically I just babbled this video was great information and some day I'll find a tuner that does know what to do with all the parameters as you described.
Hi Kevin, loving all the videos, keep it up. Question : I know you have to tune the motorcycle if you remove the catalytic converter, but, can I use my Power vision to do this, eg, auto tune?? I don't live near any Dyno tuning shops, so was just wondering. Was it possible. Thank you. 🖐👍
after watching a lot of videos of tunings, ac, exhausts i'll be getting a brand new softail standard 2021 model but one video says if i put hi flow air cleaner & hi flow slip on i won't need to tune it as the m8 is set at ATR 14 so is that true or not....i ve had 2 Harleys one a 1994 sportster & one a 2013 fatbob... i'm born deaf & from Australia. i seem to trust your honesty & looking forward to hear from you cheers.
I try telling every1 nothing beats a good dyno tune. I'll tune my own bike so much on the street and then finish it on a dyno, i've been doing it like this for years, but you gota know what your doing, its easy to hit the auto map button, but if you got a ex leak or intake leak you just took your tune the wrong way. Its just nuts trying to tune a bike in the upper rpms 6700rpms on the street @ 145mph. I have some videos of me out making pulls on the street some where in Mexico here on my channel, check em out. Good info as always Kevin.
Wish I found this video ....like 4 years ago. Currently...I'm having my bike rebuilt for performance (not high performance...just above normal). So the experienced mechanic that is working on will "Butt" tune it first, then Dyno tune it to see if anything can be fine tuned.
Kevin, G'day from Australia ...!!!! Firstly i want to Comend you on a Very Informative and Thorough Presentation, I have watched many of you're U-Tube Video's and you are Extremely Knowelgable, I just wish all Schools had Teacher's Like you , You Know how to Explain things in a Way that is Concise and Very Easy to Comprehend, One thing is being able to Deliver a Presentation ....but , .....the Main Objective is to Keep eveyone Captive , And Harness that Trust and True Desire for Audiences to Be totally engaed with the Content , And Mate you Nailed it Right on the Head . Keep Up the Exemplary Passionate Work , Thanks Again . Brett.
Thank you for your very kind words Brett! Gracious of you. I love my visits to OZ. Have mostly been on the east coast. Have good friends at Rollies (Rollie, John, Berto), Morgan and Wacker (Malcolm Martin), APL Performance (Adam and Julie).....great place there sir. Hope to make it back over soon.
As a long time road and Dyno tuner this explanation is by far the most accurate and best explained.
I agree. Been tuning for 35 years. A dyno gives numbers to brag about
man i wish there was a kevin and doc harley at every HD dealership. I have never had the luck of dealing with a mechanic or tech with the level of expertise and just basic decency of these guys. wish you were in VA sir!
Doc is a joke.
I could not agree more with your statement of the importance of real road time and data collection. Thank you for putting this video out.
My pleasure! Thank you
WOW Kevin, your videos are TOP NOTCH, !!!! No BULL, just valuable info explained VERY WELL !!! I now TOTALLY understand limp mode THANK YOU
You have got to be the most articulate gearhead in the country !
Great topic and great explanation. But the more I hear you talk about tuning, the biggest thing I take away, is finding a tuner who really actually knows what there doing. It’s difficult because how do you tell the difference between someone who really knows what there doing, and someone who really thinks they know what there doing!!!
Nail on the head sir. One of the best ways to know, is the questions the tuner asks you BEFORE he does the tune. Things like how you ride, what you weight, etc....if hes asking the questions, that means he knows his tune needs to be done a certain way.
@@KevinBaxter I'd really like to hear more on this topic...... How to interview (for lack of better words) a tuning "professional" to find the guy that really knows his stuff. I'm running a ThunderMax ECM.... and they are all about the Auto Tune capability of this unit and the vast collection of maps they have to email you based on your bike and the aftermarket equipment you have added. They (Cycle Solutions) offer a free dyno tune to go with the ThunderMax ....... but I'd have to drive to Daytona to take advantage of that Offer. My focus is on the longevity of my engine and torgue.... with longevity being the first priority.
@@KevinBaxterthose questions apply to only bikes ?
I recently did the Harley Stage 4 128 Big Bore kit. I previously had Stage 2 performance cam running HD Pro Street Tuner and HD Smart Auto Tuner. Did a Dyno first thing, then the break-in period of 500 miles 2,500 rpms, then rode for 1,700 miles in all types of riding conditions. At that point, I had the data dumped from the Smart Auto Tuner into the ECM and SWEET CHRISTMAS did it wake that bike up!!! It runs great in normal conditions and then will turn into BEAST MODE once you get into the throttle. Overall, I am very satisfied with the whole setup. Got to respect the power.
New to KB's stuff but, being an engineer myself he's spot on!!!! Human element is crucial...
Thank you very much Marty for your kind words and for supporting the channel.
Thank you SO much for this presentation. I have been systematically tuning my bike using the SESPRT. I started with a base map provided by Harley for stage 1. Then, took the bike for a ride to record data. I found the AFR WAY too lean and confirmed with plug condition. I reduced the Stoiciometric from 14.6 (in the base map) to 14.1. Now the engine is getting the fuel it needs. The plugs confirm this; and so does 'seat of the pants'. Since then, I have increased the cranking fuel and acceleration fuel. My oil temp is now averaging 30 degrees cooler; and my head temps are average 40 degrees cooler. I am still in the process of monitoring to get the tune as good as I can, but WOW what a difference. Also: according to the plugs, the timing looks to be correct.
I totally agree on your views and appreciate for making this video. Having said that, I also expect to know what is the alternative tuning solution for a common rider who wishes to upgrade his bike or wishes for more performance. Not everyone living all around the world are blessed to live at places where there are masters like Kevin Baxter around them :)
As a layman how do I make sure that my bike is running on a map that is safe for the engine and is performing to its best? At the moment the only option I have on hand is a canned map from the tuner company.
I strongly suggest that you please make another video on how to retune a canned map, how to manually tune the bike in real time, how to change the values ourselves manually and the basic points to check to ensure the engine is not running in a risky state.
You are the only one on UA-cam I see for having this potential in explaining us these solutions. Thanks a ton and keep these great videos coming. Cheers!
Thank you for the comment and for your suggestion. As you've gathered from me....im blunt and straightforward. That is an excellent idea, but it's also me teaching the world a specialized skill that took me 30 years to develop. I have absolutely no problem sharing this information with customers who purchase their parts and systems from us. Im sure you understand. I've traveled the entire world teaching shops these methods...all 4 corners...and they utilize those methods today...but I was compensated to do so of course.
I do also offer 1 on 1 tech support by phone and TeamViewer across the web. I charge an hourly fee for that by appointment and as time allows of course.
Great to see your reply Kevin. Your message is loud and clear. Knowledge and experience are truly the greatest assets in this technical world, and I agree with you that they can’t always be just shared for no benefit. Offering 1 on 1 remote solution sessions is a great boon to the needy riders. Will get in touch with you to utilize this opportunity. I’m right now looking to buy the best air cleaner for my 2018 FLHTK stage 2. Would you mind suggesting 1 or 2 models with the highest flow rate please? Thanks again!
Rinehart, and similar from Arlen Ness works GREAT.
Best HD content on you tube ! Kevin your a world of motorcycle knowledge.
Well said. I doubt anyone could have shared this information more clearly. Kevin nailed it. I have been working with engines almost everyday for 40+ years. Maybe a decade or so more. Yes. Lots of variables. Manufacturer just set a best case average in the ecm programs. Most are after epa numbers and not what the engine needs.
I once had dyna and got stage one on it. After getting the dyno tune I road it on the highway and it pulled pretty well but deceleration it was popping all over the place, so I took it back to Harley and they recon they tested it and said there’s nothing wrong with it but I know they were just lazy technicians so I went and got it tuned by a professional motorcyclist and never looked back.
Thanks for your brilliant commentary, it was very well explained.
I could listen to this guy all night
Spot on, we call it optimization. Always tune using partial throttle percentages under variable loads and full throttle power pulls. Smoothing not at 5 simply because I'm looking for other power robbing issues.
You R PRICELESS! I have to look at this a few more times then take some notes. I love your deep dive approach. Your experience and wisdom comes though. When I was at Morehouse, they use to say, “Gather around the fountain of wisdom…and just let yourself get wet.” I am very late to the game, but I am finally living the dream. Disappointed, cookie cutter retail Harley experience. I will get the bike I want from the following build. Wood 22XE, S&S plate, pump, tensioner, tappets, tappet rings, SE heavy breather, SE tune, TBR Turnout. I will be looking for you, Sir. 2020 Fat Boy
Thank you for producing this video. It is by far one of the best videos that i have seen to date covering some very important topics. Again thank you.
Kevin I do like your honesty about tuning great information just wished I could have learned this stuff when I was young keep up the great work never stop helping people you are one of a kind
I was thinking of getting my bike dyno tuned until I found his wonderful video on reading plugs. I have a 2018 gsxr 1000R with 7K on the odometer. Did my first plug change a couple days ago. They look text book great. The so called factory lean tune must not be so. If the motor ran lean from the factory it should have shown up on the plugs. Another excellent informative video. Thanks
Very good information! This is exactly what we talked about for a goal for my motor... who cares what number it makes, I just want it to perform well and live long. And, it looks like that's my motor sitting on the table in front of you in the video! Very excited for this build. Thanks again KB
Yes sir it is! All cleaned up and on the table to begin the machining processes next week. Your crank is already underway.
Great content. I recently went from a 1340 to a '99 TC88 with CV carb. Been riding an real worlding for 40+ years. Got the shop to start it, mechanically sweet as a sewing machine but didn't need to ride it to know it was way off. Got it delivered and start again with fresh fuel,new plugs and clean air filter. Must have been a very disappointing introduction to Harley by the previous owner who traded a BMW for it.
Thanks Kevin. Again the more information videos you make the more informed we get.
Never really sure the FP3 I have in my 08 softail custom is doing what they say.
Often, when something is very easy to use, that means you are giving up something...simplicity often requires compromise. And like Forest Gump says....."Thats all i gots to say about that". LOL
Kevin,Thank you i learn more from you with every video I watch.. Thanks great information.
Totally agree with the "shrouded in mystery and confusion". I will never understand people who spend $1000+ on pipes, $500+ on an intake, and several thousand on cam(s) and top end parts, etc, then balk at spending $500-1000 on a tuning device and dyno tune. And, sadly, there are still those who subscribe to the flawed concept of "break it in first then get it dyno tuned".
What’s wrong with breaking it in first?
$500-$1000 for a dyno tune is absolutely absurd! There is mathematical theory that can be utilized to measure the incremental time between different mph that allows one to use their bike and the hiway as the dyno for free. I doubt many hairy backs would be interested in this method because they want that graph and peak numbers to throw around at the keg party. Harleys are geared extremely high to please the EPA and the first order of business is to gear the bike down if you want better acceleration. This needs done before a finger is ever laid on the engine, but you never hear it mentioned, just AC, pipes, cams, tune and headwork. It’s all a money grab and people line up to throw their hard earned money at somebody to enhance their image! 😂
@@trailerparkcryptoking5213that is the most uninformed babble I have ever heard. Wow. it's so bad I really don't know where to start. What magic gear makes the bike faster? Lol really though what if you want more top end and a touch more speed vs acceleration? How do these gears adjust air fuel ratio? How in the world do you know what timing to use when you can't measure torque? Theory, math? 😅 What is this theory and does it take into account, humidity air temperature, throttle position and load? Oh I can't wait to hear your answer
No doubt !
What I hear is ya wanna get that correct AFR dialed in as fast as possible when a new motor is built. Few heat cycles and on it goes to the rollers to get AFR.
I’m not a tuner but been around some to know enough that I don’t know enough and that a newly built motor needs to be broke in correctly right away .. after 50mi or something break in is done .. those rings are seated as they are gonna be. Baby it for 500mi and ya got a loose motor
If I’m incorrect please correct me on this
This guy is great! Awesome mechanic!
I am enjoying where you are going with this so far. I am an old mechanical FI tuner from Exotic Car world trying to adapt myself to the modern Bosch FI tech used on my 2020 HD. THE difference is the data available from the bike! My bike is now able to tell me what it needs together with what I want, unlike the super cars of the bygone era. Even my old dragster was mechanical FI! LOL I do not miss the days of manual calculations and Pill changes! I do need to bone up. I am hoping you are among the people that Weill be my guiding light to help me get the very best of of my bike, for my circumstances. Thx! K
Well sir...i do auto videos on occasion as well. Working on my Chevelle now, may be swapping to EFI on it....but yes, there will be some auto content as well. As for the later stuff...i'll keep it coming.
Very enlightening! I’ve got my bike in your shop right now for a custom tune! Can’t wait to see and feel the results.
Never thought about dyno engine tuning other than obtaining peak performance!
Thank you so much for opening my eyes 👀 👍👍 It makes total sense!
Everything you say!
Now, do you know anyone in So Cal
who can do all those things you talked about , and of course, do it right?!
........I gotta watch it again🧐☝️
thank you sir!
Excellent video Kevin. Lots of great info, thanks for taking the time to sharing. Cheers
Glad you enjoyed it. Thank you very much.
Awesome! You have at least two doctorets in the internal combustion engine. The way you explain what's happening is so detailed. All measuring tools can lie to you the one thing that can't is the spark plugs. Reading the plugs conferms your tools were accurate. I'm certain you do this just the one thing you didn't say. Thank you... More videos please!
He has a good separate video about reading plugs: ua-cam.com/video/b3vn2NU3r1U/v-deo.html
Thank you very much....i see @Janne Kinnunen comment below.... Thank you JK!
Thank you!
I purchased my 2013 FLHTK new and almost immediately felt my engine was not running correctly. I heard what I believed to knocking or detonation and explained my concerns to the dealer. I was told a dyno tune was the answer and their tuner could work magic. Long story short, I spent lots of money on stage one performance mods and still felt something was wrong. This is when I realized how difficult it was to find an experienced tuner and how easy it was to waste my money. Kevin, I wish you were closer but I feel fortunate to have RDS as my hands-on shop and this youtube channel to further my knowledge.
Nail on the head sir! Rob is awesome at what he does. I have no doubt you are in good hands.
I’m gonna have to watch this again although I think I understand. I want my bike to be the best it can be for as long as possible. But I’m guessing that the most important decision I have to make is choosing the right mechanic.
Right. And how can you do that? Word of mouth from guys who may or may not know what a good mech is.
You are the "Cat's Meow" Sir. That DTT tuner that you programmed for my 02 Night Train made an incredible difference, smoother and more powerful all the way around. I also can't thank you enough for recommending Rob in Gardner MA, he'll be putting the finishing touches on next month. Well, fall is coming in quickly and you must be looking forward to a few games "between the hedges", UGA is my favorite SEC team. Thanks for sharing and paying it forward Kevin, always a pleasure.
Thank you Sully. Glad it worked well. I live about 20 mins from Athens so yeah...Dawg country for sure.
Great stuff Kevin. Reviewing Data logs and making adjustments as I see fit has been the best way to get my bike running it’s best. Plus it’s a blast to do
Best information ever! New sub here...Just got an 07 electra glide with power vision and was thinking...hmm, I'll use autotune to dial this in to my riding. Nevermind that idea lol
Kevin! Wow. You’re the analytical guy I’ve been looking for! Your videos are so detailed and easy to follow. I’m in Tennessee but I’d seriously consider buying a build from you one day. I’m such a DIY guy, but your knowledge is valuable. Thanks!
Awesome, thank you!
Where at in tn? I'm 30 mins south of nashville
Thanks for the great video, lots of good info., and thanks for the great tune on my Skunkworks build. Thanks to you my engine is built and tuned perfectly, and that was proven on the oil analysis report. Have a great week-end sir, hope to see all you great folks next week. ..LT
Thank you my friend. Youre the best Larry. That Ohlins setup is gonna be NIIICE!
Excellent Video. 100% a supporter of the knowledge you shared
Kevin thank you for sharing so much of your knowledge and passion with all of your many videos. You have tought me a great deal about Harley Davidsons so thank you again. You are so wright about tuning on a Dyno, it is not a magic bullet. A machine is only as good as the person who is running it. I'm old school when it comes to tunning , with carburators. My problem is I am not good with computers so that makes it impossible for tunning EFI. So my problem is I had a bad experience with my SE VRod when I took it to a shop to have it dynoed and when I got it back while I was riding with my friends they told me that I had fuel shooting out of my exhaust at first I told them that they were full of it because it wasn't missing and I would of thought with that much fuel it would of been running so fat with black smoke but it wasn't so the injector must of been firing at the wrong time I guess not sure. So I took it back to the Dyno shop and told them what was going on and they checked it out and they told me that some how the power commander lost its settings and I asked what was going to keep it from doing it again and they said don't worry it won't ever happen again that it was locked now. Here is my experience with EFI on a HD. Now I'm dealing with my 2000 RK with the Magneti Marelli EFI and it needs some tunning, decel poping and random miss fire at cruzing. So my question is do I get a tunner and have it dynoed or switch it over to carb with a new ignition if so which ign. I've read a lot of negative things about the mm EFI. Your apinion would be much appreciated thanks! PS I ordered a t shirt a couple weeks ago to support your fund raiser and haven't received any information or confirmation keep up the great work!
MM systems are very sensitive. They MUST be set up correctly before the tuning even starts. There are for more steps to setting up MM than just tuning it. Unfortunately, much of that knowledge base has been lost over the years. I know only VERY FEW people that still know how to do this on MM.
Thanks Kevin , you said what needed to be said. I have said the same thing on cars for years and I always get slack over it . But I I have provided it . Especially when it comes to street racing.. in mexico of course 😉. Great video Thanks
Thank you Raymond!!
Great video Kevin 👍
I worked at a shop in N. FL where I re-tuned a lot of bikes that were 'custom tuned?' at a well known Dealership.
People thought that since they were a dealership they would automatically, magically "know how to tune"...LOL...
It was amazing how far off most of their tunes were. Lacking power, response and in some cases TERRIBLE fuel mileage.
What part of N. Fl are you in?
Trust me this guy is the best in engine knowledge
Great video and extremely informative for me. Thank you for taking the time to create it!!
Glad it was helpful! Thank you.
I'm a little late to the party but glad to be here thanks
Damnit.. power vision got me with the “Target Tune”… Kevin just broke my heart
How did they get you with target tune?
Kevin, thank you for taking time to explain this… I have tried a few tuning methods and agree.
Hey Kevin, just watched this latest video, in fact this morning I watched several of the tear downs of 103's and 110's. Anyways I have to agree with you on the necessity of a Dyno tune.. I have a Power vision on my 2013 FXDBP with a 103 that I made upgrades to. Including Stage II heads and a set of Woods TW 5-6 cams.. My compression is at 10.16:1. Anyways I tried tuning myself with the power vision being new to fuel injected bikes I never had any issues with carbureted evos shovels been doing them a long time with a wego 3. However the fuel injected bikes are different and the bigger inch motors are more set susceptible to detonation and temperature.. It is an art to try to get these tuned. And I agree with you that Auto-Tune really is nothing, It's all in how you can manipulate the tables to get your motor to run smoothly.. I even went as far as trying to get it Dino tuned by a reputable tuner and it actually seemed to be very sluggish and was worse than when I brought it there. So I started teaching myself even more on how to tune and I played with the tables timing air fuel ratios as well as VE tables and I think I was able to reach a very satisfactory point in my tune. If someday you'd like to discuss this further I could send everything that I data logged and we can use that as a basis in the future possibly help others. It really took me a long time to tune it this way.. It's not a one-day fix, It takes writing, data logging, more changes to the VE tables, ignition tables and AFR tables and more data logging.. It's a long process but once you reach that point of good performance good, fuel mileage and low temperatures and good throttle response You know you have a good tune.. If you'd like to discuss this more let me know I'm sure we can somehow get together.. But thanks for your video You're very honest there about Dyno tuning and who the real operator is, it's not the Dyno machine.. Lol..
Excellent job. I'd have to agree on all points. Speed comes with experience but bottom line...give the engine what it wants!
I’ve learned so much from your video, thank you Baxter 🤙🤙🤙
Excellent breakdown, thank you!
As always with your other videos this was super-informative. I just had a Stage 2 installed in my 2011 Fatboy and also upgrade from the V&H FP3 to the Dynojet PV3. Thanks for sharing Mr. Baxter. Keep doing a great job.
Thank you for your professional advice! Yes i am one of those, well the ones you are talking about! Thanks Again! Great info.
Great video. My biggest question is what methods can I use to collect the data while riding?
I’ve come to the conclusion that the way Kevin describes his topics takes me back to high school when I wish I had him teaching me algebra versus the teacher I had that would knock you in the head with your math book.Kevin is correct I did a 107 build on a 2010 road glide custom when complete had the Builder Dyno it And it ran quite nice 7000 or 8000 miles later I took it to a top Midwest tuner/builder and had a custom map done with my power vision Surprisingly the Dino numbers came in less than the original tune but it ran better I just did a stage two torque cam to a new M8. 114 it runs really nice it has a screaming eagle tuner and smart tune For the way I ride currently I’m fine with this set up I’ll report back after the warranty is up thank you Kevin oh and I went to summer school for algebra that year ride safe
LOL... thanks for sharing. You hit the nail on the head. Often, the best tune for your engine, doesnt make the most power. X+Y=Z baby. hahaha
Like I said before... when it time to build my next bike your the man I’m heading to!
He is building me a complete blue printed Skunk Works engine right now. Can’t wait to get it back !
And OH MAN...is it a good one!!!
Freedom Rider Yeah man I can’t wait. After watching Kevin’s videos I realized the attention to detail he has. IMO that’s what makes great dependable engine. Enjoy that new Skunk Works build!
In this episode of Baxters garage! my suspicions confirmed! STOCK bikes ROCK!!!!!
Thanks for making sense of all this dyno hype we fall into sometimes me included, what kind of method do you use to record the data to tune a bike mentioned on number 4 you talk about here thank you much Kevin ?
Awesome video. Keep up the great work….🙏
When is it thank you for all that information there’s so much confusion around Dino wing of motorcycle you’ve help me out considerably
Youre welcome!
Man I’d love to get the equipment necessary for you to get the “perfect tune” on my bike ride it all the way to you for that tune. Focusing on a longevity/performance balance.
Shoot me an email...kevin@protwin.com I can get you some options for whats available.
Absolutely awesome!!! Great starting point for tuning. Keep it coming. Love it man!!!!
Just like back in the day with the "Sun" engine analyzer scopes. One tech would view the pattern and say plugs gap wrong...another tech would look at scope and say idle mixture wrong..etc. The scope....and Dyno are a tool. It still takes a tech with good experience to best use the tools at hand. As Kevin knows...I'm not a max Dyno numbers guy.....it's the area below the curve that matters to me. Can't wait for the next video!!!
Thank you Max. I had one of those Sun cabinets myself years ago. A huge machine for only doing a few things. Individual cyl kill, cyl KV, etc....oh the memories of setting dwell on points. LOL
Great video. My tuner used the record function of my se super tuner to massage the se stage 2 base tune we installed when i upgraded the cam on my m8. We also fitted a hd smart tuner to see how it went. The bike runs great everywhere with the smart tuner coming into its own when big changes in altitude are encountered after a mile or two it is noticeable that the bike adjusts. We haven't dynoed it yet as i agree peak hp is not relevant but we are going to just for giggles and to check torque figures.
That's one way to do it...but remember...that uses narrow band sensors and averages. Wide band data is required to perfectly tune outside of 14.6-1 give or take a little. But, that is certainly better than nothing.
@@KevinBaxter i have wide band sensors. If its out anywhere we will tune it.
I wish you were closer to me. I could definitely use your expertise trying to get my bike straightened out
Awesome content, thank you for posting this!
This sort of backs up what I’ve been hearing for years. I never knew how trustworthy some of the dyno tuners were. I’ve heard the stories of showing different results, but people not being aware that results were from the operator using different gears for the runs. I appreciate your knowledge about having a mechanic that actually understands the many different variables involved in tuning correctly.
Thank you Royce!
Yeah boy there are a shit load of snake salesman that push dyno tuning & I lost count on how many that were tuning by dyno masters, them put on the street & runs like shit And especially at the racetrack lol, then I re tune bam got a customer for life
with using a dyno utilizing the eddie brake to simulate load and collect date throughout your rpm range, you can still achieve a spot on tune with a talented tuner
I just sent my 06 StreetGlide in to Killer Creek for a tuner and dyno. Wish I would have watched this sooner. I just wanted it to run good and last a long time. I Don’t care about speed and max hp. Hopefully I will still get the results I’m looking for.
My bike came with a V&H tuner and it ran terrible so I changed the map, attempted to use the auto tune feature, sent the map to V&H for review, they sent me back an adjusted locked map and in the email stated, the auto tune feature cannot tune the moto as well as our dyno tune techs. I sent back a response asking why even have the auto tune feature then? They never replied but your video certainly explains what they did not want to reveal. Thanks for the video and explaining the tuning process. I did not purchase the tuner, it came with the bike but I think I will look for a reputable tuner instead of relying on the plug and play over hyped method of tuning. I'm not confident that the bike has the best overall tune for the health and longevity of the bike.
you are not alone sir...glad you enjoyed the video. opened a few eyes im sure.
Well presented. Thanks.
So how do you suggest us “riders/wrencher’s find a competent tuner? Are there any benchmark, tell tale, signs that the bike is, in fact, running correctly? Could you put another video together addressing this?
I’d like to have it done but have had no luck finding a guy I can trust with my bike.
A few key points.....cylinder head temp around 300-325 measured at the base of the plug after a 10 min moderate ride. you should see 38 to 42 mpg riding conservatively. oil shouldnt smell like gas. plugs should be clean. see my how to read a spark plug video....that'll answer much of your question.
Kevin Baxter thank you. Seems mine is running correctly. Plugs are what you described as ideal. Utilizing a Powervision, and Fuel Moto supplied tune for my stage 2, with the head temp in that range. 45mpg average depending on load and how rambunctious I am feeling. Runs like a top through all the rpm range.
Your comments in the video about bike appearing to run nicely, but actually harming the internals, had me a bit concerned.
Thanks for being so helpful and forthcoming with your knowledge.
It may not be a bad idea to locate a shop in your area and just ask them what they would charge you to confirm AFRs. Tell them the bike seems to run good so you most likely dont need a full tune. Just confirmation that its safe. Could be thru a couple pulls on the dyno and some steady state testing, or, install wideband sensors in your pipes and record data while you ride. Either way, that will confirm what the AFRs are. Also...read plugs (see prior video), and listen for detonation. 38-42mpg, oil shouldnt smell like gas.
a real eye-opener.
Looks like I need to invest into a power vision with the target tune so I can accurately tune my bike. I currently just have a power commander 5 on my 07 heritage and with no o2 sensors I am just hoping the tune from dynojet is correct!
Kevin, Super informative video, thank you! I'm just getting back into riding after 2 decades and bought a 2019 Heritage Classis M-107. I am planning to make basic stage-I upgrades (intake, 2 into 1 header/pipes and tune). I was thinking I'd go with the FP3-Fuelpak starting w/ one of the canned tunes but then working through the auto-tune process based on my riding the bike. After watching this video I'm not nearly as confident about this approach. I'm curious what your thoughts/recommendations might be (I really did watch the video....LOL). If you happen to know any good tune shops in the Denver metro area let me know, I'm reading through forums and reviews now. Thanks again, I love what I've seen of the channel thus far and just hit that "subscribe" button ;-)
Outstanding info- thank you.
When i tll customers that the end all be all is not the dyno they look at me like im crazy. I use the very same analogy of a treadmill. Many humans can run 10miles on a machine however canr run 3 miles in real world conditions. A dyno is just a tool and estimating machine. Like you said we can skew rhe numbers very easily.
Great show Kevin keep the good stuff coming.
Thank you Douglas!
Thanks I’ll check them out.
Thank you so much KB for explaining things in a way even I can
understand and I can't wait for more of the same. You are a shining
light in the darkness of V Twin know how and it's a pity you can't
network that knowledge to other countries, especially Oz. I'm still a fan of my Thundermax because it does collect data and allows my input, so now I just need to learn how to use that data. It also allows me to change pipes and cams easily without being raped at the dealership. I'm not interested in being the quickest as I only want a reliable, long and short distance ride. So far so good.
Thank you Jim. In the right hands, nothing wrong with a TMax. Most of these systems do the exact same thing regardless of brand with a few pros and cons/bells and whistles, etc. Regardless, if you have a means to monitor afr thru wide band sensors, and the knowledge to know what to set timing to and afr command, and ecm data logging, it'll work just fine.
If my stock bike ran FANTASTIC with stock jetting & mufflers and I went from a 4 1/4" stroke to a 4 5/8" stroke do you think the stock jetting will need to be changed? I honestly think it'll run stronger and shouldn't have any impact but figured I'd ask anyhow.
You mention that you don't need a dyno, just collect the real world data and make determinations from there. So how does one gather the real world data? What tool do you use to capture the information?
Thank you, sir! I am trying to learn what I can about tuning so that I can be better at doing my own tuning, and maybe help someone out if I can along the way. I have the Dynojet Power Vision on my 2014 Deluxe 103. Stock engine with slip-ons with torque inserts and free flowing air cleaner.
I've got a dyna wide glide with the 103 as well. Great engine to play with. I have the screamin eagle heavy breather intake , v&h big radius pipes, and screamin eagle cams, bike runs awesome. How do you like the power commander? From what I've heard it's great. I'm a mechanic, and a few years back we were installing a ton of the v&h fuel packs. They were pretty cool, they had a book with all kinds of different maps depending on engine size, pipes, and intake. That was back in 2010, I'm sure that power commander vision has alot more flexibility.
T hank you Kevin great information
After watching this video, and learning more about tuning, i don't think i can trust anyone around me to tune my bike. every shop i see advertise "DYNOTUNE" MAXIMUM POWER. i'll have to get some wideband sensors and log some data with the power vision...most likely reach out to you here sometime this summer about that 1on1 consulting service. after it warms up a bit, still pretty chilly here in ohio.
This was very helpful, thank you!
Great work man. What do you recommend to record data?
Im curious how to go about spark advance tuning on the street? What parameters are you looking at to get a safe ignition tune that produces power but avoids knock?
Great video as usual
Great words of wisdom.
Wow that was very interesting at least. So in most cases dyno tuned is for power, speed and tork.
Peak. I think your right most of us haven't clue.
I love the fact that was brought up, what do most mechanics
Do!
Also does my infotainment
system do recording of riding proformance?
Maybe it should if not.
Great video. Very interesting. Alot of good info. Well done Kevin. D & D
Thank you D&D!!!!!! Hope you guys are well!
We are good. We are just enjoying the rain...lol.
We hope all is well with you and your family as well.
Kevin as always great information. I have Dynojet target tune installed and the bike seems to run OK. I only know the basics and have wondered how do I change the timing for optimised running of the engine. Hopefully the target tune is taking care of the fuel and air. I’m in Australia with no good tuners close to me. Is it possible to record some running time and send to a good tuner to optimise the tune.
Always look forward to your videos
Chris...i offer a service where i can review your maps, talk you thru the tuning process, etc...a consulting service if you will. If youre interested in that 1 on 1, email kevin@protwin.com to discuss. thanks.
I had my bike tuned twice and each time I can see and feel the inexperience in both shops. But if there is no real tuners around that's what we got to deal with. My recent tune created a check engine light. The code said rich for both cylinders. My bike would randomly chock itself off idle accleration. Nothing really repeatable but still repeatable. Shop thought it was some electrical issue, which I figured wasn't.
He told me to use the quick tune to lean out 5% on low and mid. I thought that was extreme and did a 3% test and immmediately the bike got worse. I used some of my knowledge of tuning RC engines and richened the lowend. This immediately cured the issue. I then flashed back to my dyno days with RC engines and getting them to perform on the dyno was NOT what you'd run on the track. It's tuned to the dyno run and not real world.
Basically I just babbled this video was great information and some day I'll find a tuner that does know what to do with all the parameters as you described.
Very informative keep it up
Thanks a lot
2ND time watching and learn something everytime.
I think customers care about peak numbers as well as great overall tune!
I need to bring you my bike for a top to bottom check up!
Hi Kevin, loving all the videos, keep it up.
Question :
I know you have to tune the motorcycle if you remove the catalytic converter, but, can I use my Power vision to do this, eg, auto tune??
I don't live near any Dyno tuning shops, so was just wondering. Was it possible.
Thank you. 🖐👍
Enjoyed this vlog👏
Glad you enjoyed
after watching a lot of videos of tunings, ac, exhausts i'll be getting a brand new softail standard 2021 model but one video says if i put hi flow air cleaner & hi flow slip on i won't need to tune it as the m8 is set at ATR 14 so is that true or not....i ve had 2 Harleys one a 1994 sportster & one a 2013 fatbob... i'm born deaf & from Australia. i seem to trust your honesty & looking forward to hear from you cheers.
I try telling every1 nothing beats a good dyno tune. I'll tune my own bike so much on the street and then finish it on a dyno, i've been doing it like this for years, but you gota know what your doing, its easy to hit the auto map button, but if you got a ex leak or intake leak you just took your tune the wrong way. Its just nuts trying to tune a bike in the upper rpms 6700rpms on the street @ 145mph.
I have some videos of me out making pulls on the street some where in Mexico here on my channel, check em out.
Good info as always Kevin.
Thanks Jim
Wish I found this video ....like 4 years ago. Currently...I'm having my bike rebuilt for performance (not high performance...just above normal). So the experienced mechanic that is working on will "Butt" tune it first, then Dyno tune it to see if anything can be fine tuned.
Kevin, G'day from Australia ...!!!! Firstly i want to Comend you on a Very Informative and Thorough Presentation, I have watched many of you're U-Tube Video's and you are Extremely Knowelgable, I just wish all Schools had Teacher's Like you , You Know how to Explain things in a Way that is Concise and Very Easy to Comprehend, One thing is being able to Deliver a Presentation ....but , .....the Main Objective is to Keep eveyone Captive , And Harness that Trust and True Desire for Audiences to Be totally engaed with the Content , And Mate you Nailed it Right on the Head .
Keep Up the Exemplary Passionate Work , Thanks Again . Brett.
Thank you for your very kind words Brett! Gracious of you. I love my visits to OZ. Have mostly been on the east coast. Have good friends at Rollies (Rollie, John, Berto), Morgan and Wacker (Malcolm Martin), APL Performance (Adam and Julie).....great place there sir. Hope to make it back over soon.
Thank you. Sir