IS THIS THE WORST THREE PHASE WIRING YOU'VE EVER SEEN - Does it need a rewire?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 сер 2024
- Sometimes you don't even need to get your MFT tester out of the box. A quick visual inspection of this industrial electrical installation brings up a raft of problems. No need for a full EICR on this job it looks like a full rewire is on the cards.
Industrial electrical installations can be a challenge, especially on small industrial units. Tenants often change quickly as businesses grow. The needs of one tenant are different from the next, meaning the electrical installation needs flexibility.
If you're an industrial electrician share your thoughts and can you spot some electrical faults that we missed.
== 🕐 Time Stamps - Cut to the action 🕕 ==
00:00 Industrial unit electrical installation tour
01:14 Three-phase distribution board wiring - another wood screw!
03:40 Strange neutral arrangement
04:26 CPC in an adaptable box
04:50 Periodic electrical inspection overdue
06:40 Where does that flexible cable go?
07:56 Interesting cable grip
09:11 Three-phase socket using SY flex
11:06 Cracked socket with another fault inside
13:15 The workshop - where are the sockets?
13:52 Workshop lighting
15:10 What the glass tube
16:10 The office
16:55 T12 tube and 13A Plug unsleeved pins
18:20 Burgundy toilet and earth bonding
19:10 Outdoor lighting and Wagobox innovation
21:05 Share your thoughts - did we miss anything.
== ===========================
🧰 More from eFIXX
DUMB HOME TOUR
• Efficient but DUMB! - ...
================================
📍SUBSCRIBE TO THE CHANNEL
eFIXX is here to help electrician's, electrical contractors, building services engineers and electrical apprentices. Watching our videos, you'll discover new products, explore new applications and find answers to your technical questions. So if you've been on the tools for years or just starting your electrical journey, we'll help you stay up to date with the latest regulations and developments in the electrical industry. hub.efixx.co.uk/youtube-subscr...
================================
📺 NEW TO THE EFIXX CHANNEL Watch our essential videos playlist
hub.efixx.co.uk/essentials
📺 CATCH UP ON THE LATEST VIDEOS
hub.efixx.co.uk/latest
📺 ELECTRICIANS' TOOL REVIEWS
hub.efixx.co.uk/tools
================================
🔴 eFIXX LIVE
Join us for our youtube live stream twice a month - features product sneak peeks, challenges, giveaways and live electrical banter.
NEXT STREAM HERE
👉hub.efixx.co.uk/next-live-stream
Catch up on previous episodes
👉hub.efixx.co.uk/livestream
================================
🆕 FREE CPD
Learn about new applications, regulations and best practice with our FREE CPD modules. - New modules released every month covering everything from surge protection to lighting
hub.efixx.co.uk/CPD
================================
📝 APPRENTICE HUB If you're an electrical apprentice, retraining as an electrician or looking to refresh your knowledge, then please check out our apprentice hub. It contains thousands of multiple-choice questions to help prepare for electrical installation exams.
hub.efixx.co.uk/apprentice
================================
📩 eFIXX NEWSLETTER Sign up to find out about our live events, competitions and product giveaways.
www.efixx.co.uk/sign-up
================================
FOLLOW US on your favourite social networks for behind the scenes action, breaking news and competitions.
🟠 INSTAGRAM hub.efixx.co.uk/Instagram
🔵 LINKEDIN hub.efixx.co.uk/linkedin
🟣 FACEBOOK hub.efixx.co.uk/facebook
🟡TWITTER hub.efixx.co.uk/twitter
==================================
❌ This content on this channel is for electrical professionals.❌ ==================================
📹 Presented by
Gary Hayers - Editor eFIXX
Gordon Routledge CEng MIET - Technology Editor eFIXX
===================================
#efixx #electricians #electricalinstallation - Наука та технологія
This is extremely helpful. I'm an apprentice electrician and this is giving me a fantastic real-world example of a visual inspection. Even though your regulations are a little different from ours, the approach and thought processes are invaluable. Thank you very much for your videos. Greetings from a fellow Anglo across the seas in Australia. Cheers
Glad to hear we’ve helped - more on site videos coming soon!
Rewire with maybe a Scheider 3 phase consumer unit like the one in your previous videos, Metal trunking around the outside of the workshop and metal sockets and light switches off it in galv conduit
3 Compartent trunking in office areas,maybe floor sockets depending on room size and use, i know there are so many ways and depends on the use of the building.
Smoke detectors,call points. Emergency lighting
An Ev charger ready for charging the latest company van in the future whilst doing the office paperwork.
I'm afraid I've seen far, far worse than this old 15th edition installation. You didn't have to fit an RCD in those days. It's the tinkering and meddling that helps to make it a mess. And no, you have to use brass or copper for that earth continuity at the intake. Also, the intended future use. Is there any rotating machinery? If so, the lighting has to be flicker free! The future intended use is crucial to the selection and erection of equipment. What a great video that! So real, as it is? Thanks again guys!
I’m wondering how would you make the lights flicker free?
Your explanation of the causes/reasons for all the faults you identified, is hugely useful to apprentices like myself. Ta 👍
Absolutely after 25 years due a full makeover but you really need to go out to the second and third world to have an appreciation for dangerous wiring as opposed to just old and ratty. On one job in S. America, it was the apprentice's job to start the table saw, which ran all day, by twisting two live wires together!
I can watch this video Ten times and still find something new to learn. Thank you guys
We’ll be pleased if you do watch it 10 times! - look forward to seeing your comments as this project progresses!
I would have checked if the plug in the DB was live, because too many people fixing a board for their own needs just work after "no one else will touch it" and "I'll take it down when I move"
I would love to see you guys on that re-wire. :) You work so well together. Excellent video.
Hi, excellent video yet again. I worked for the NHS in a fairly large hospital in a maintenance capacity for many years and insert 13amp socket outlets were always an issue like you observed in your video. Seen similar installations not good so looks like a total rewire is in order, keep up the good work and stay safe.
Excellent video and it's really highlighted what to look out for when thinking about renting a small unit. Thanks.
Great video, show that the visual inspection is just as important if not more so .
After carrying out a EICR on a commercial property a few years ago, one item I flagged was reduced size neutral conductor in the submain SWA supplies dotted around the premises. Once back in the office I blew the dust off the old BS7671 and set about finding the right regulation. What I actually found was that providing the over current protective device is rated for the load taken it is a pass. In this case all but a few machines actually needed a neutral connection so the load on the neutral was minimal compared with the line conductor in the same SWA.
Thanks 🙏- we will investigate further on this.
5:00 - I remember fitting that type of Next Test labels at Forestry Commision properties in 1995 😃
Burgundy toilet. I'd put that as a C3.
Fantastic 👊
Gary's got his name on it to upgrade his current chocolate brown suite.
Who? I mean who? Has a burgundy toilet? That is third world stuff.
Could be worse - it could have been Avocado... or even Salmon!
@@farmersteve129 That would then be a C1
As a DIY'er, this looks good to me.
🤣🤣🤣
Me too
Lol
Great to see 2 young chaps getting started as electricians, a few years ago went to look at a new industrial unit for a workshop for us, asked the landlord what we got he said 4 walls a roof and floor , no electrics they all get ripped out after every re let, in the workshops spaces, to ensure the electric is safe for all.
Strangely the whole business centre burnt to the ground a year later. Lots of companies lost everything, hope the electrics that where installed where safe. Who Knows.
Oh and it would have been new to us but the building was a converted warehouse dating from the 1860,s.
Greetings from across the pond in the USA. I love your reactions to what you find inside the boxes... It's like I'm watching me and my coworkers with British accents... "Wood screws." "Two screws". cheers mates.
Another great video guys! Plenty of hidden gems ⚡
Congratulations - What a fascinating video. Thank you
Metal enclosure used as earth conductor Reg 543.2.6.
Looks like the landlord has not been too concerned about what his tenants do or dont do. It must have cold that day lads, are those Makita heated jackets ?
We love the heated jackets 🧥 !
Every time I see a unit like this I think to myself, "I could put an X barrel brewery in there". I think I'd get lightly toasted in this one!
Ideal for a brewery! -plenty of power
Love it eefix
More of these visual on the spot ..
Inspection
For us beginners 👌💪
Excellent video 👍🏼
Do you think if you turn that upsidedown socket the right way up and tighten that burnt neutral connection,that installation might get a satisfactory EICR?😀
5 mins in and everyone can see cause for rewire. Thank you for carrying on to highlight further nastys.
I've got that plug on my 20 year old jigsaw which is currently held together with tape... I've been meaning to swap it since 2009 😇
Great love it 😂😂. Now you know what we have to contend with 😂👍👍👍👍
Just started with my journey to become a electrician and this is very interesting to watch. Thank you for sharing this!
Same I'm on.my way work know go help with a 16mm 5core swa omg my poor nails
Nice sharing.
Its worth noting that if the sockets were installed in 1992 then it may have been designed under the 15th edition and not required? Does 133.1.1 not cover SY as it has a IEC standard? Overall I agree that it needs a rewire based on the issues at the board alone.
Rewire in galv trunking at 8ft around the unit, and galv conduit drops and risers to the sockets and lights.
ahhh the single phase cu is a road map for UK motorways :)
🤣🤣love watching these vids....always helpfull...upcoming electrician here
Electricians love Picking apart substandard work.
The most common things I see on 3 phase installations is people still using the black in multi core cables as the neutral. A couple times I have seen main tails brown , brown and blue used as the 3 phases and a blue with black tape used as the neutral..
It was complete madness ever changing our old colour system
I pondered this years ago, Black for newtral, Red for danger, Green for earth. Then i met a bloke who was refused an electricions apprenticeship on the grounds he was RED GREEN colour blind! There are about 10% of the MALE population with this condition, how dangerous is this!!!
Good job - a few bonding questions come up in my mind - incoming services, structural steel, steel trunking, and maybe supplementary for that steel sink as no RCDs. Clearly a rewire.
Bugger! What a mess! You should convince the Landlord to do your job. A suitable 3ph Consumer unit and a meter box with with integrated incomer switch, equipotential bonding rail and proper earth rod. A complete new wiring and lighting with energy saving L.E.D. fixtures . And of course to the latest standards.
MICKY MOUSE had been at it again 😂.
Wow what a crazy mess of an installation.
I would just rip it all out and start again from scratch.
Great video guys very interesting as always
Thank you.
Thanks 🦾👍
Good reply mate.
You'd spend more time trying to determine what is salvageable than it appears it would take to just start fresh.
Glad to see Gaz brought his Tesla Model X!
That’s his “mid week motor”
@@efixx 😂👍
Great video 👍
Thanks
Looks Really Nice.
when the sun shines no one will notice !
@@efixx 🤣🤣🤣
Does it matter what phase live you use when creating a single phase outlet from a 3 phase incoming?
Urm I’d look to rewire with the use of of 75x75 steel trucking to the left hand side of cupboard new Hager three phase db.
Tray up from there up to basket then onto light fittings, high level trunking steel pipe drops to outlets ect...
Stay tuned !
@@efixx oh and steel Copley to lol 😂
I'm wondering if the original test was at the suplly before the consumer unit and other installation was installed.
Did see a Hager 3 phase switch feeding another 3 phase switch in the same enclosure?
On the metalclad socket, would it not be better if the CPC were wire directly to the terminal on the socket outlet?
Just about filled a code sheet with the supply consumer units alone!
With the Sy flex I have never used it myself and I don't know if its suitable for outdoor use but I have seen similar cable with the same outer insulation on a communal lighting installation which came from a building then through ducting under a private road to street lights in a carpark the other side where I was asked to refix on the wall where the building was as the cable cleats had come away and i found the outer sheath was crumbling off from exposure to the sun and weather just leaving the steel wires
Yeah I find SY cable outside is unsuitable most of the time, not sure how those HVAC boys get away with it so often
Post more electrical horrors! I like to see what jacked up stuff people do 😂.
On it !
It's clearly suffered from a fair bit of dubious work and a fair bit of wear and tear. On the other hand i'm not seeing things like rubber cable or green goo.
The question is once you strip out the damaged stuff and the bodges, is there enough of an installation left to be worth saving? and is the installation what the new occupants of the property want/need?
Looks like it’s time to start again with this installation stay tuned.
Possible issue with proximity of the telephone DP wiring (band II) and the circuits around it. Reg 528.1 ?
Maroon toilet should be given to the parachute regiment. Love anything maroon (or burgundy, close enough)
It’s yours we’ll have it ready for you to pick up when you take on the electricians challenge. www.efixx.co.uk/electricians-challenge
Lovely label but why did they use the / symbol in the middle of out/side and flood/light?
We pondered this for a while perhaps they don’t know how to use the label/printer.
Any safe isolation? Excellent informative content.
You guys are hilarious 😂
was there ever an update on the re-wire?
Are they single insulated tails going between cut-out and meter?
We have a 100 Amp 3 Phase supply to our home, rest assured it is competently fitted. This is scary!
Yes we have as well. When we moved the electricity meter from the cellar to the side of the new garage, I asked Yorkshire Electricity, as was, how much a 3 phase supply would be instead of the single phase. Same price £70.00, no brainer really and 28 years on I probably need to have a look at an upgrade to the main Square D 3 phase board. We have had two single phase consumer units in that time fed from the 3 phase. All the machinery in the garage is 3 phase. Rather fancy the new Schnieder Acti9 Isobar P.
@@billdoodson4232 we are on 2 KQ boards and 2 Easy9 consumer units, it's a complex system.
Nothing compared to the system we took out, it's an ex RAF control tower!😀 No radar, radios or airfield lighting to run now fortunately.
how often should it be tested ?
What is the main issue with using SY cables on final circuits providing they are terminated correctly and meet BS7671 standards?, Twin and earth which of course is permitted would provide no more protection than a SY cable does?
SY is one of those grey areas because of the standards it’s manufactured too.
biggest issue is there tested to TUV standards with dubious ratings 😆 🤣
Bs standards for a reason 😴 🙄
would be a deviation on certifcate...
ideally only using s/y or y/y for control cables
Only one thing to do, pull the main fuses and start again XD, Is this going to be the Efixx industrial unit 2021 ?
That all looks good some jobs I have seen are much worse
So, if your CU lid has got a stripped screw hole do you advocate leaving the hole empty, replacing the entire CU, or putting in a woodscrew?
If you look at some of our other videos we found another plastic CU with two wood screws - just seems to be a trend.
Plug on the twin and earth . Oh no you have just knocked off the power to the server room 😁
Have you checked if there is a RCD?
The search continues 🤣
I'd install luxna led batten fittings, with gewiess industrial sockets, Hager DB and Hager M/C sockets and switches. That's what I like! 👍
hager all the way
....or acti-9
Think who ever had the unit before new a mate down the pub,waste of time doing a test ,turn it off and put a danger label on it
Agh yes the pub electrician ⚡️
Nope I saw one in an electroplating works that was far worse,the guy from HSE took one look and pulled the main fuses
Great comment 👍
I would be amazed if an HSE guy was authorized to remove main fuses! ...... but I think he would have had the phone number of those who are! ;0)
@@totherarf This guy was a factory inspector,he put elbow length rubber gloves on,turned the main fuseswitch off
@@totherarf and then pulled the fuses,he knew what he was doing
@@anthonyschofield7807 So he operated a switch? ... Diferent countries different rules! In the UK the customers do not own the cutout and it is illegal for anyone not authorized to operate it!
Seen a lot worse than that, try coming down to London 😱
My mates unit the meter tails are loose can just pull them out. Has a pound meter makes it easy to by pass but can't believe it was left like that.
In Australia, all cables (single or double insulated) should be installed in conduit or similar to a height of 1800mm if exposed to consumers.
I don't see using the steelwork of the box as CPC as a real issue provided the connections are tight and the CSA is adequate (approx 7x the required size of copper). The rest of it makes that a bit of a moot point though!
It's a shame the UK regs don't have phrasing like the US NEC does for 'workmanlike installation' or similar wording.
Something else I see that others may not pick up on, the BT distribution point wiring being right next to the SY feeding that 3ph socket. (separation of services)
Also SY: no BS number, by using it you're taking responsibility for it being suitable. I don't like it outside of industrial control.
Would you recommend regular 5 core flex on 3 phase sockets/plugs?
@@Orgakoyd Depends what you mean by regular.... H07 RN-F should be fine for most use, SY has its place too despite not having a BS number....
You nice and toasty, modeling those makita jackets. AH HHAARR!
Never leave home without them! - Gary is on the shortlist for the next Grattan catalogue.
New collection “Grandad at Grattan”
@@efixx and i think he would do a fantastic job! That smile will break a few hearts!
A bit off-topic but I wonder what you think of a recent use of CY cable in an installation I know of.
The cable carries 230V mains fused at 6A, a 24V AC alarm relay circuit, a 0 - 10V DC control signal and two circuits for NTC thermistor temperature sensors, all in a single 12-core 0.75 mm CY cable.
Is that acceptable? Personally I'd have segregated-out the mains and low voltage circuits into separate cables.
Was the application part of a process line or machinery?
@@efixx Its part of an HVAC system. The cable connects the system control box to one of the duct-mounted heaters. Three-phase power for the heater elements is supplied by an SWA cable direct from the DB, but mains power for the power-control electronics and contactor comes via the CY cable from the controller.
This is the way the contractor installed it, but having mains and control signals in the same cable seems to me to be in breach of the segregation of LV and ELV requirements of BS7671.
ohhhh there's a very well known chicken place that I did qn eicr on the 200amp main from the 200amp switched isolator to the 72way db was in.... S/Y have a picture if you want bodge of the week lol
Two comments - Landlords legal responsibility to ensure supply is fit for use before reletting unit (or was it a 'deal')? Cables strapped to telephone cable providing 'correct' seperation (ok, only for a short distance,...... but)?
Get a nice Schneider D IKQ board in there, or an isobar / p. SY replace with armored or tuf sheath, But yes the entire thing needs taken down to the tails and re done. Its not saveable.
I do for insurance company and do some time for fire brigade and 8-out of ten. It’s loose neutral And never seen any overload conductors But what you see it’s. Very good and safe compared to what we see On daily and when Most of landlord and owner don’t care they say it’s been working all these time. And it’s ok. Money it’s tight Until something goes wrong Be surprised what photos we have. Shocking
Can you two please confirm that you didn't do the initial installation?
i don't know about the UK but in The Netherlands you can earth or ground metal boxes just fine
Talking about task lighting, my employer has recently fitted PIR sensing led lights, they are set to turn off after 10 seconds if movement is not detected. Not ideal when I work a 170 ton press 😏
If the correct terminology is CPC why do lots of places sell
Twin & Earth?
Who told you CPC is the correct terminology? 😂
The electrical industry in the UK needs a re-wire.
Explain please 🤔
@@09weenic This standard of wiring is typical in the UK. We have organisations like the NICEIC who issue qualifications such as 3-day '18th Edition Full Course' with 'no formal entry requirements'. Successful candidates litter the country with unterminated CPCs and half-completed certificates. Have a look on David Savery's channel to see what happens when you report dangerous work to one of the governing bodies. He was not impressed. I think the industry needs to take responsibility for what we've seen in this video.
Last tested when I was -9 years old! 😂
Have found in the past many factories use there so called maintenance man to fit electrics for them as it saves in paying for an electrician and test sheets just as many householders buy from diy stores and try doing there own electrics
I've seen worse than that. I wish I'd had a digi camera with me when I've worked on wiring in the past. I had a mate once who was a mechanic and he set up a business in a unit and he got some right botch-up merchants to install some of his kit. He had a car lift installed which was three phase and was connected by a lousy 4 core flex which was only 240 volt rated and they'd stuffed it into a copper pipe instead of conduit which they'd bent without proper tools and crumpled it with the cable inside and they were lucky it didn't short out and catch fire, the cable must've been crushed and I don't think the pipe was even earthed either. And that's not all. One day I was there and there was some foreign chap there trying to install a 7 kW shower unit all wrong, he obviously didn't have a clue what to do, as to start with he was trying to connect the outlet to the hot taps when it must remain open ended, and even worse he was even going to try and connect it to a 13 amp plug and plug it in! Can you believe that?! And I tried to politely explain to him about how severely dangerous it was and why he couldn't do it but he wouldn't be told, I can't remember what happened later, I think I must've left him to it, I hope he didn't get himself or anyone else badly hurt, but if he did plug that thing in he'd have got a nasty surprise, that's for sure! Trying to draw 7kW from a 3kW outlet, definitely NOT recommended! It needed a 6 sq. mm cable right back to the board with a 32 amp breaker, or better still an RCBO.
Maroon or burgundy, what would you call it?
I’d call it “retro, vintage, rare” and ask a fortune on eBay.
I notice you commented about not earthing the braiding on the SY cable. The braiding is there for screening more than earthing no? I’ve certainly never earthed it, nor have I ever seen it being earthed in any application.
Although, I’ve also never used it in a final circuit as it’s non-standard and doesn’t comply if memory serves me correctly.
@@robertbreen7227 SY absolutely has to be Earthed at the braiding point of termination/glanding , although classed as a "control cable" its designed for usage in fixed applications up to 500V, if a live conductor was to be pierced to the braiding and no bonding was present, the whole outer sheathed braiding would be come live, its no different to SWA.
@@shavermcspud It’s completely different to SWA - unless you can find a regulation that says it’s usable for LV applications as I’ve never been able to find a table for it.
Lol first thing lads was NO PROVING DEAD ( I know we only do it on inspection day though 😏) I have seen plenty worse
"I don't think we've found anything salvagable" a couple of backboxes maybe
Lots around like this ,, 1980s on wards ... ( and before) ..poor work even for those days ...defo needs a Rewire...
This is exactly how I expect my mates unit is.. Leathal! It'd be good to remind those who don't have an electrical background of any differences in the law between commercial and residential settings, I'm sure duty of care to others features!
That looks fine, when compared to East European (former Soviet Block countries / still outside EU) wiring. A Rats nest of mixed up coloured mains cables that would give you nightmares.
The original installation looks around the 15th and is worn, tired aged, etc. It has had poorly installed additions and alterations to suit occupiers over the years. I think that there could have been an original 3 phase D.B. with the single-phase circuits eg lights and power. Protective devices for this board are no longer available eg 3 phase MCB for the 3 phase socket so this lash-up was done as the cheapest option.
In the states you could most certainly fail a inspection for non workmanship appearance. It's a grey area usually left to the discretion of the inspector. Our NEC states all work must be finished in a neat workmanship manner.
Sounds like a great term to add to our Regulations!
@@efixx don't get me wrong as long as everything else meets code here its pretty hard to fail an inspection based on workmanship appearance. You you basically have to totally not care and try to make it messy enough to fail. Most honest professional electricians here do take pride. Messiness is usually the result of a general contractor or builder. Im neither just a homeowner who does his own work and lives to learn.
@@efixx It sounds fancy and technical at the same time
Was a blacksmith the previous owner
Something related to horses sums this job up
wow a new type of cpc junction box LMAO
early wago box...
Storage of "ANT killer" (and the like) in the electrical panel is unacceptable.
🤣
@@efixx Sorry for my English
ant regulations 123.790.01 "no compent ant can go near a shitty fitted db without permission from the ant powder distribution board operator"
Oh yes the old double screw flex arresting take the shortest route cable clip no glander ip rating type attack. Sweet who says a mate they know does not no what there doing and all for 3 pints.
No mention of emergency lighting ?
Oof you should have seen my three phase panel. Its sooo bad. Phases are wrong some phase wires are done with earthing cable
What a mess 🤣🤣🤣so glad i only do domestic 👌👌👌