Nice work to those pilots. Likely their first true emergency and it sounds like they got it all wrapped up very quickly and handled the situation well. Well done.
Robert Grim I was quoting the pilot... did you not read my irony? They usually state a fixed number, not usually a generalization. I was throwing out the irony of gestimating, "About 54" ... SOULS, as in living human beings 🙄
at around the 01:00 mark. Why was the landing clearance for AAL954 canceled? There is no way, that watersky could make it to the final approach in time before 954 has landed and is way off the runway. Or is it just a precaution just in case 954 gets in troubles also?
That's indeed the same thing. There's times when you find yourself under some kind of stress that you don't really focus on the words you're saying and correct your speaking to finally end up saying the exact same thing. It happens a lot on frequency.
I noticed that Waterski came right back in without running checklists. Could someone with the knowledge explain to us "non pilots" why some go to a holding area to run checklists and some don't? Is it based on each companies policies as to what is done after a pilot declares? Every second counts in an emergency situation and time seems to be wasted by holding somewhere running checklists. I'm glad these pros got it right back in. Nice job to the ATCs as well for clearing the way.
Steven Shillinger That’s a good catch! As a long time professional pilot, I was wondering why they rushed back in myself. So here’s the thing. I can only truly answer your question by not only giving you some facts, but also some speculation as to what was likely going on in the heads of those particular pilots. First, why do some emergency aircraft go out to hold to run checklists? Well, it very much depends on the emergency. Aircraft systems are complex. And as pilots, we are very proficient at operating those systems under “normal” conditions/circumstances. However, when something goes wrong, there are usually a number of steps that must be taken to troubleshoot and secure or isolate that system or possibly get it working again. By doing this, we create a much more controlled environment and potentially a much safer aircraft to take back to the airport. Also, depending upon the failure, there maybe a different landing configuration, (i.e. different flap setting) or different hydraulic pumps required by the manufacturer, etc... for landing with the aircraft in that state. While we do practice these emergencies in the simulator, you’re never going to be able to remember every step and configuration for every kind of failure. So it’s safer to hold, run all of the appropriate checklists for that particular failure or emergency and come back to the airport with the aircraft in the most stable and safe state as you possibly can. These airplanes are perfectly capable of flying around safely for extended periods of time while these steps are being accomplished. Now, “why did these pilots return so quickly without taking the time to complete these steps?” Here’s where a bit of speculation has to come in. As I wasn’t in the cockpit. But in the grand scheme of aircraft emergencies, there are two types. Time, and no time. An example of a no time emergency is fire in the cargo or cabin. An example of a time emergency would be, the flaps failing to retract after takeoff. When you have a cargo fire, it can spread and consume the aircraft in a matter of a few short minutes. The priority is to get the airplane on the ground as soon as you possibly can, and run what emergency checklists you can along the way. If the flaps fail to retract after takeoff, you can fly around troubleshooting and running checklists for as long as you have fuel to do so. Now in this case they had an indication of an engine fire. This is the one time that you can initially interpret a fire as a time emergency. Because modern jet engines have internal fire detection and suppression systems. Designed to contain the fire and keep it from spreading to any other part of the aircraft. If you take the few minutes required to run the checklist, you can extinguish the fire, isolate the fuel and hydraulic systems, review the different landing configuration requirements for landing single engine, etc... An engine fire could become a no time emergency if you were unable to extinguish the fire, but you would treat it that way when it becomes such. At regional airlines today, there is a significant lack of experience and my best guess would be that these guys saw “fire” and went straight back to the runway. In this case, it all worked out well. And in most cases, it probably will. But we have these checklists and procedures for a reason. Not following them properly can and certainly does bite you from time to time. I hope that helped to answer your question.
John Rocheleau. Thank you very much for taking the time to help us understand what goes on when these types of incidents occur. I've had the extreme pleasure of riding commercial and private local a few times in my life. I would say my personal greatest flying experience was taking a flight in a B-17 (Yankee Lady) owned and operated by the Yankee Air Museum in 2015. I'll never forget it. Again, thank you for sharing your knowledge. I wish you well and a good day.
Steven Shillinger, I also flew on Yankee Lady. Was pricy but glad I did it. John Rocheleau, not a pilot but it seems on this aircraft there is no way to visually see the engine from inside the plane, unlike a wing mounted engine. If I'm a passenger on the plane and there is a slight chance of an engine fire and we can't visually confirm it I want to get down. Even once they had landed the pilots were not sure if there was still a fire.
The recordings are only of transmitted conversations between ATC and the jet. Anything the captain and FO said between each other wouldn't be caught on LiveATC.net since they weren't "transmitting" and were just using the hot mic to communicate with each other. Plus we have a memory list of checklists to secure an engine that has failed or is on fire. While the captain was flying the traffic pattern back to land, the FO (the guy talking on the radio most) was likely running the checklists and setting the instrument approach up on both sides of the cockpit.
Checklists were likely completed, but that conversation isn't recorded via ATC only the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR). As someone else noted, there are also "memory items" that would need to be accomplished, that would lead the pilots to the checklist. I haven't flown an Embraer in 9 years, but I believe there were 3-4 steps in which the affected engine is identified, idled, timed, and then the secured before referencing the checklist to decide if firing one of the fire extinguishing bottles should be accomplished. As to why hold in some instances, vs returning immediately for landing in others, it's truly up to the crew to decide. In the case of fires (specifically structural fires more than engine fires) getting the aircraft on the ground as soon as possible is the most important item to accomplish. Extinguishing the fire is important, and working through options is as well, but damage to the fuselage of the aircraft is a real concern leading to loss of hull integrity, and the time it can take from a minor inconvenience to turn into complete structural failure is shockingly quick.
Kingfish Stevens when the company started they were flying to lodge of the four seasons which is also where the LOF identifier for trans states comes from
Back in the day, Trans States Airlines main destination was Lake of the Ozarks where lots of people would waterski on their vacations, hence the callsign Waterski. The other Trans States Holdings airline is GoJet, callsign Lindburg. Since Trans States is based out of St. Louis, GoJet calls themselves Lindburg, for Charles Lindburg and his record setting, first Trans-Atlantic crossing airplane, The Spirit of St. Louis.
Banshee365 I’m curious as well... Either the jumpseat was utilized or there was a lap infant. I suppose this is one incident that I could ask at work since it was one of our birds.
Scott Heng I would certainly have used the jumpseater for something, especially if he/she was a TSA pilot. At least ask them to keep a close eye out and speak up if they see something not going right. But, like you say, the 54th soul cold have very well been an infant. I just had to assume jumpseater #1 because it was full and #2 because JFK. Lol
Doubtful. The 145 cockpit is cramped but the jumpseater can't reach anything beyond the printer and the FMS if it's the old ass non-ISIS setup. The crew is more than capable of running the EPC.
Predetermined categories of emergency, will be different (but likely similar) at different airports. At my airport an Alert 1 is aircraft inbound with minor difficulty, like a feathered prop or low oil pressure. Alert 2 is aircraft inbound with major difficulty, like an engine fire or medical emergency. Alert 3 is an incident in progress on the field.
Smart pilot, even had to teach the firefighters how to do their jobs. HS is it not common sense to check the engine before you take it over to the building where more people are.
I am sad that not a single aircraft denied air traffic controller order of approach clearance cancellation. There was no dire emergency and the aircraft could have waited like everyone else to land.
Michael Lawn Michael, you must be a special kind of STUPID! I have never heard such an asinine statement ever! I bet if your butt was up there as a passenger, you would want the pilot to get that plane down ASAP! Read some accident report investigations, a small problem becomes a major problem rapidly. Many planes have gone down for failure to declare an emergency, and when they did, then it was too late. If you have a problem, such as we listened to, declare an emergency. The controller will clear your flight path, and believe me the other pilots will fully understand.
If you actually did deny an ATC clearance cancellation and continued on, you'd have some serious explaining to do.......like "why should we allow you to keep your Airman Certificate".......
Back in the day, Trans States Airlines main destination was Lake of the Ozarks where lots of people would waterski on their vacations, hence the callsign Waterski. The other Trans States Holdings airline is GoJet, callsign Lindburg. Since Trans States is based out of St. Louis, GoJet calls themselves Lindburg, for Charles Lindburg and his record setting, first Trans-Atlantic crossing airplane, The Spirit of St. Louis.
![Fantastic F15 Friday in the Mach Loop on the 13th [4K]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/g21-GJOe7iw/mqdefault.jpg)
![Fantastic F15 Friday in the Mach Loop on the 13th [4K]](/img/tr.png)
![[REAL ATC] JFK airport has TWO SIMULTANEOUS EMERGENCIES!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FBQD12Ti-cE/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks to Iker for his simulation!
Good job by everyone involved here! :D
No problem! Thanks for letting us help.
Do you ask people to do a simulation or they submit to you? Cause I would be willing.
Spirit Wolf He most likely wouldn’t ask people to send simulation clips, it wound of been somewhere in the description or comment section.
Nice work to those pilots. Likely their first true emergency and it sounds like they got it all wrapped up very quickly and handled the situation well. Well done.
Very interesting to see how ATC and all the pilots coordinate to allow a safe landing for the pilot with the emergency. Very professional folks!
i took a few lessons when i was younger. it still amazes me how calm and helpful and quick to respond ATC is.
Excellent stuff, totally professional from everybody involved.
Excellent video and very very professional handling of the incident.
I genuinely wonder how they came up with ‘Waterski’ as an airliner name lmao 😂. Good job to pilots and ATC!
"About 54" give or take 1 or 2 souls, lol
CD 1 50 seats, 3 crew members plus a flight deck jump equals 54....
Robert Grim I was quoting the pilot... did you not read my irony? They usually state a fixed number, not usually a generalization.
I was throwing out the irony of gestimating, "About 54" ... SOULS, as in living human beings 🙄
CD 1 it's almost midnight. I read it as if you were unfamiliar with how shitty the e145 is. Sorry
A couple gingers on board.
Misinterpreted - he said "(we) got 54" but the text erroneously says "about 54"
Can you review Havana airport’s ATC recording for the last hour, a plane has crashed there. Thanks and prayers for family’s of the passengers on board
More than 100 dead :(
VG73G0RYC299V It would be interesting, but I wonder if he could obtain the recordings.
Ruben Villanueva yeah
Dia triste aquel en q sucedio esto. ya hoy al menos sabemos las causas
Thank you for sharing! Great work!
Was nobody else thinking it would be ironic if they had to ditch in the water, considering their name is Waterski...
This channel is Awsome. Stirling work
Thanks!
Newark as well.
Kind of tricky to target 2 different airports at the same time isn’t it ?
at around the 01:00 mark.
Why was the landing clearance for AAL954 canceled? There is no way, that watersky could make it to the final approach in time before 954 has landed and is way off the runway.
Or is it just a precaution just in case 954 gets in troubles also?
Exactly
At 4:43, why did the controller correct 128.12 to 28.12? Isn't it the same thing?
That's indeed the same thing. There's times when you find yourself under some kind of stress that you don't really focus on the words you're saying and correct your speaking to finally end up saying the exact same thing. It happens a lot on frequency.
Rather add a correction with redundant info than second guess anything that may have slipped out.
Butter
Isaac Lao the bread
Aw
Unreal ;)
keep up the good work
Is it me or did the jetblue pilot sound cranky?
I noticed that Waterski came right back in without running checklists. Could someone with the knowledge explain to us "non pilots" why some go to a holding area to run checklists and some don't? Is it based on each companies policies as to what is done after a pilot declares? Every second counts in an emergency situation and time seems to be wasted by holding somewhere running checklists. I'm glad these pros got it right back in. Nice job to the ATCs as well for clearing the way.
Steven Shillinger
That’s a good catch! As a long time professional pilot, I was wondering why they rushed back in myself. So here’s the thing. I can only truly answer your question by not only giving you some facts, but also some speculation as to what was likely going on in the heads of those particular pilots. First, why do some emergency aircraft go out to hold to run checklists? Well, it very much depends on the emergency. Aircraft systems are complex. And as pilots, we are very proficient at operating those systems under “normal” conditions/circumstances. However, when something goes wrong, there are usually a number of steps that must be taken to troubleshoot and secure or isolate that system or possibly get it working again. By doing this, we create a much more controlled environment and potentially a much safer aircraft to take back to the airport. Also, depending upon the failure, there maybe a different landing configuration, (i.e. different flap setting) or different hydraulic pumps required by the manufacturer, etc... for landing with the aircraft in that state. While we do practice these emergencies in the simulator, you’re never going to be able to remember every step and configuration for every kind of failure. So it’s safer to hold, run all of the appropriate checklists for that particular failure or emergency and come back to the airport with the aircraft in the most stable and safe state as you possibly can. These airplanes are perfectly capable of flying around safely for extended periods of time while these steps are being accomplished. Now, “why did these pilots return so quickly without taking the time to complete these steps?” Here’s where a bit of speculation has to come in. As I wasn’t in the cockpit. But in the grand scheme of aircraft emergencies, there are two types. Time, and no time. An example of a no time emergency is fire in the cargo or cabin. An example of a time emergency would be, the flaps failing to retract after takeoff. When you have a cargo fire, it can spread and consume the aircraft in a matter of a few short minutes. The priority is to get the airplane on the ground as soon as you possibly can, and run what emergency checklists you can along the way. If the flaps fail to retract after takeoff, you can fly around troubleshooting and running checklists for as long as you have fuel to do so. Now in this case they had an indication of an engine fire. This is the one time that you can initially interpret a fire as a time emergency. Because modern jet engines have internal fire detection and suppression systems. Designed to contain the fire and keep it from spreading to any other part of the aircraft. If you take the few minutes required to run the checklist, you can extinguish the fire, isolate the fuel and hydraulic systems, review the different landing configuration requirements for landing single engine, etc... An engine fire could become a no time emergency if you were unable to extinguish the fire, but you would treat it that way when it becomes such. At regional airlines today, there is a significant lack of experience and my best guess would be that these guys saw “fire” and went straight back to the runway. In this case, it all worked out well. And in most cases, it probably will. But we have these checklists and procedures for a reason. Not following them properly can and certainly does bite you from time to time. I hope that helped to answer your question.
John Rocheleau. Thank you very much for taking the time to help us understand what goes on when these types of incidents occur. I've had the extreme pleasure of riding commercial and private local a few times in my life. I would say my personal greatest flying experience was taking a flight in a B-17 (Yankee Lady) owned and operated by the Yankee Air Museum in 2015. I'll never forget it. Again, thank you for sharing your knowledge. I wish you well and a good day.
Steven Shillinger, I also flew on Yankee Lady. Was pricy but glad I did it.
John Rocheleau, not a pilot but it seems on this aircraft there is no way to visually see the engine from inside the plane, unlike a wing mounted engine. If I'm a passenger on the plane and there is a slight chance of an engine fire and we can't visually confirm it I want to get down. Even once they had landed the pilots were not sure if there was still a fire.
The recordings are only of transmitted conversations between ATC and the jet. Anything the captain and FO said between each other wouldn't be caught on LiveATC.net since they weren't "transmitting" and were just using the hot mic to communicate with each other. Plus we have a memory list of checklists to secure an engine that has failed or is on fire. While the captain was flying the traffic pattern back to land, the FO (the guy talking on the radio most) was likely running the checklists and setting the instrument approach up on both sides of the cockpit.
Checklists were likely completed, but that conversation isn't recorded via ATC only the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR). As someone else noted, there are also "memory items" that would need to be accomplished, that would lead the pilots to the checklist. I haven't flown an Embraer in 9 years, but I believe there were 3-4 steps in which the affected engine is identified, idled, timed, and then the secured before referencing the checklist to decide if firing one of the fire extinguishing bottles should be accomplished.
As to why hold in some instances, vs returning immediately for landing in others, it's truly up to the crew to decide. In the case of fires (specifically structural fires more than engine fires) getting the aircraft on the ground as soon as possible is the most important item to accomplish. Extinguishing the fire is important, and working through options is as well, but damage to the fuselage of the aircraft is a real concern leading to loss of hull integrity, and the time it can take from a minor inconvenience to turn into complete structural failure is shockingly quick.
And that's why you don't use an E145 for waterskiing -.-
Hello, thanks for that wonderfull videos, please do you can upload on this page de fligth of jet blue 292 ???
I like the simulation, excellent job. Did this incident just occur? I see it has today's date as "Published."
dpm1982 At the beginning it says the incident occured on March 12, 2018
dpm1982 *21
Why couldn't AAL954 and JBU have landed ?
At 9:23 just do me a favor and monitor that frequency
Rip DMJ 0972
I wonder where the "Waterski" handle came from...
Kingfish Stevens when the company started they were flying to lodge of the four seasons which is also where the LOF identifier for trans states comes from
Back in the day, Trans States Airlines main destination was Lake of the Ozarks where lots of people would waterski on their vacations, hence the callsign Waterski. The other Trans States Holdings airline is GoJet, callsign Lindburg. Since Trans States is based out of St. Louis, GoJet calls themselves Lindburg, for Charles Lindburg and his record setting, first Trans-Atlantic crossing airplane, The Spirit of St. Louis.
@@Jerryman1980 Cool! Thanks!
Might be a dumb question, but with emergencies what's the reason the ATC's ask for how many passengers... For potential injuries or something?
To bring buses or ambulances in case of evacuation.
I wonder if they used the jumpseater for the emergency.
Banshee365 I’m curious as well... Either the jumpseat was utilized or there was a lap infant. I suppose this is one incident that I could ask at work since it was one of our birds.
Scott Heng I would certainly have used the jumpseater for something, especially if he/she was a TSA pilot. At least ask them to keep a close eye out and speak up if they see something not going right. But, like you say, the 54th soul cold have very well been an infant. I just had to assume jumpseater #1 because it was full and #2 because JFK. Lol
Doubtful. The 145 cockpit is cramped but the jumpseater can't reach anything beyond the printer and the FMS if it's the old ass non-ISIS setup. The crew is more than capable of running the EPC.
4:42 he says “128.12” then “excuse me 28.12” I don’t understand why. They are using 128.12 correct? Can someone explain that one?
He may have wanted to say it a little quicker. They usually don’t say the 1.
Very interesting
OOF
What exactly do the numbers after ‘alert’ mean??
Predetermined categories of emergency, will be different (but likely similar) at different airports. At my airport an Alert 1 is aircraft inbound with minor difficulty, like a feathered prop or low oil pressure. Alert 2 is aircraft inbound with major difficulty, like an engine fire or medical emergency. Alert 3 is an incident in progress on the field.
How do you have "about 54" souls on board. Lol
MarijuanaCanada somebody was jumpseating
Apropos of nothing, I've always hated that souls on board bullshit.
could have had a couple gingers on board
Waterski seemed to mumble his numbers.
Or not say them at all.
I fucking agree. I was stuck on this transcript for that very reason.
wow why is that plane's wingspan 6 times wider than the runway??!! omg
Tell me.
Smart pilot, even had to teach the firefighters how to do their jobs. HS is it not common sense to check the engine before you take it over to the building where more people are.
RIP
What do you mean RIP lmao no one died
Justin Ryan Vales RIP Engine 2 :‘(
American 276 pilot is drunk
2Phast4Rocket Do fly fsx or fsx steam?
I am sad that not a single aircraft denied air traffic controller order of approach clearance cancellation. There was no dire emergency and the aircraft could have waited like everyone else to land.
Oh cmon don't be silly.
Michael Lawn Michael, you must be a special kind of STUPID! I have never heard such an asinine statement ever! I bet if your butt was up there as a passenger, you would want the pilot to get that plane down ASAP! Read some accident report investigations, a small problem becomes a major problem rapidly. Many planes have gone down for failure to declare an emergency, and when they did, then it was too late. If you have a problem, such as we listened to, declare an emergency. The controller will clear your flight path, and believe me the other pilots will fully understand.
Michael Lawn
You sir, are a clown.
Get loss bro
If you actually did deny an ATC clearance cancellation and continued on, you'd have some serious explaining to do.......like "why should we allow you to keep your Airman Certificate".......
I genuinely wonder how they came up with ‘Waterski’ as an airliner name lmao 😂. Good job to pilots and ATC!
Back in the day, Trans States Airlines main destination was Lake of the Ozarks where lots of people would waterski on their vacations, hence the callsign Waterski. The other Trans States Holdings airline is GoJet, callsign Lindburg. Since Trans States is based out of St. Louis, GoJet calls themselves Lindburg, for Charles Lindburg and his record setting, first Trans-Atlantic crossing airplane, The Spirit of St. Louis.
I wouldn't be surprised if they used old Catalinas to start the airline.