@@nohandles406 The actual content is the same, so it shouldn’t matter. I’m making the content I want to talk about in the way I want to make it. If the titles and thumbnails aren’t optimised, the channel fails. Would you prefer the Watchfinder channel to fail?
@@nohandles406 if we want good, independent watch content with high production quality to be made, people need to watch it, they need to click on the videos. Nobody is going to watch Kevin from Birmingham reviewing a G-Shock in his basement next to his cat's litter box filmed on an iPhone 4s. Just watch the videos and ignore the titles.
Stuff the naysayers - this was a great film, and well worth a smile......cheers! Good to have a quick check to remind us all that we love watches, and don't really care if the aforementioned trinkets are worth $30K or $0K after a few years.....
I've been collecting watches for about a year now, and I have 5 watches which cost under $500 and which I never intend to sell. I got into watch collecting with the intention of losing money. That's what you do when you buy things, you lose money to gain a product. If you buy something with the intention of not keeping it, are you collecting or are you just speculating?
You could argue that you’re buying the experience of owning something. You can’t hold and keep a holiday or day out with friends but that doesn’t devalue either of those things
Totally agree with you Andrew. No other interest, hobby or pastime I have ever participated in is quite like watch collecting. We argue and debate on the merits of the tiniest, most insignificant and superficial detail or difference with terminal intensity. I always liken watch collecting to the business card scene in American Psycho. We’re all Patrick Bateman in our very own version of that iconic boardroom scene and to any outside observer we look and sound absolutely ridiculous 😂 “Let’s see Paul Allen’s watch “ 🤣
My family & friend's can't figure it out when I get all excited & tell them I'm getting a new watch they say why you already have more than you need 😳 & their right I just can't explain it .
The hands talking about audio!? I love it. Glad your wall power tastes clean; mine tastes very metallic. I’m going to complain to my landlord. Keep up the fantastic work Andrew. Really enjoying the new personal channel.
Good conversation! I think we tend to get serious because of the amount of money involved. When starting out, $1,000 seemed like a lot. Then you start learning more and taking more incremental steps, 3K, 5K, 8K, 10K, 20K. It's an interesting mindset to be wearing something so expensive on ones wrist. Everyone is at different levels. Some of these holy grails are elusive and out of reach...
I nearly spent $5K on a Blackbay 58, by far the most I would have spent on a watch. But something at the back of my mind told me not to to it. I had the money to pay for it up front, so that wasn't the problem. I think I realised it would be a slippery slope to spending ever more eye watering sums on luxury watches as I gradually became desensitized to the cost and any joy a new watch would bring. I think I made the right decision. Now, if only I could stop binging on all those UA-cam watch videos
@@eyeheartsushi2212 No, thankfully I got fixated on another, less expensive interest than luxury watches. Having said that, I do find myself thinking about the BB58 from time to time. Maybe I'll just get a Timex Q instead and see if that scratches my itch.
Spot on! I live alone in the woods. No close neighbors. No real social life (because I live in the woods.) No one I ever meet gives a flying rat's ass about the watch I'm wearing. The only smiles I see are the ones in the mirror. So the critics who think I paid too much for a timepiece can...well you know what they can do. I buy watches for me - and they make me happy! 😁(See the teeth there??)
Beautifully articulated! I have to agree, watches being bought for their notional market values rather than for their stories are taking the fun out of it, but as a newbie I found the small community of Seiko-modders the place where all the fun seems to have been kept alive by people who aren't bound by resale values of their timepieces, and all just appreciate and go weak in the knees over each others' creations and possessions. I think the fact that they're relatively affordable timepieces and no one in the community cares about resale value and appreciation makes a huge difference there.
For me, watches are an extension of who I am as a person. An indication of my character. I love having something unusual, cool, different to what the flow is going with. I love finding something that offers value & craftmanship over & above the price. All of that sees my collection range from an Instrmnt to Zelos, Christopher Ward, Cartier, Omega, Tudor & Rolex. I'm keenly awaiting my Studio Underd0g Strawberries & Cream. It's serious stuff alright but my desire stems from being a compulsive, obsessive individual with an attention span of a Gnat. I'm a real life Andy, he of Lou & Andy notoriety :) Good luck with the channel BTW, I'm sure you'll be very successful with it!
I think you absolutely have got it right. Very right. This has become way way too serious and that is exactly when all the fun is taken from this hobby. I especially see this with the Rolex community. Rolex has just become so much of an investment piece that people have forgotten that this is just a watch that tells the freaking time. The timing ticking away from your life. We all need to just lighten up and enjoy this hobby and these beautiful trinkets that we all love so much.
I just picked up one of the historical most important watch (at least for me) again, for a steal 15€ on ebay. A 1996 Flik Flak, close to the model I remember getting for my school enrollment. I just tinkered a new strap onto it.
Agree. Study of horology/watchmaking is a hobby (just like building a stereo system, where you are creating something). I find that most watch collecting is just buying stuff or hoarding, and then people stress when scrutinising their stuff
So easy to get caught up in our world of possessions until we lose our health or a loved one and reality crashes in and it becomes crystal clear what's important. On the other end of the spectrum is the reminder how fleeting the satisfaction is with luxery possessions of any kind. The more we get the more we want and the harder the gain in satisfaction each time. You summed up another dimension quite well that I missed until now. PS...your voice is unmistakable and a delight !
3:33 That sort of attitude applies to car buyers and hi fi enthusiasts too. Each fan community has this toxic segment of those who care too much about how they're perceived and those who can't wait to judge others. My general attitude is to live and let live; everyone is entitled to do what makes them happy so long as it doesn't purposefully affect others. But this particular behavior is what drives prices up - ultimately affecting my ability to own the watches I want - so I'd be ever so grateful if this aspect of fandom went away.
100% agree with your opinion Andrew, sometimes people attach importance to things that really don't. Then there are the fan boys, who defend the brand they like as if their lives depend on it. Thanks for your video.
You are correct, I’m one of the few that enjoy the hobby, I don’t care if I loose money with my purchase, all I care is that I like the watch I buy for my collection and I enjoy seeing and talking to others about watches! Greetings from Puerto Rico 🇵🇷
My personal favorite is grown men arguing in the comments section about which watches are better and God forbid some poor soul buy an homage because they can't afford the more expensive original. Dudes will shame you into inexistence.
Hell's Teeth, you just hit a point which is so relevant to many collectors. In fact, so relevant (hate to adopt your syntax, even in such a basic way), that I need to consider a note to my AD regarding a current situation. Which of-course I cannot share here! Thank you for the video...
Another favourite expression is "Every collection needs (watch X)", "Everybody needs to experience (watch Y)" or similar phrases, making it sound like a more or less mandatory list to check off one by one- almost putting pressure on people to experience the hobby in a certain very particular fashion. It's amplified by social media personalities coming across as if they are wisdom personified and highlighting the same very limited number of watches over and over again. It's a hobby and it should bring you pleasure, not pressure.
Certainly watch collecting has become more serious for the past few years with all the talk of resale value or value retention. When monetary aspects get amplified, it contaminates the joy of any hobby. Fully agree with your sentiments and I always think it’s useful for such a video to remind us to just enjoy the hobby.
Good subject Andrew. I find that watching channels that have, or experiencing Micro brands have much more fun in their videos. Then the videos with ppl reviewing the state of their Rolex collection. Mainly because in the Rolex videos they are stressing about vaule retention. And not enjoying or wearing the watches. They almost see it as stock.
Love your enthusiasm. I’ve been been collecting for three years now and I’ve lost control. Thanks for all the in-depth info on so many fantastic watches.
I adore watches. Of all the devices one can have/interact with it’s my watch that feels like a little companion that outlasts everything else. Through thick and thin, all the trials and tribulations of life, my watch is there, ticking away, my little mechanical buddy. I love watches so much I can’t just have one, I have a little collection because they are so wonderful and suit different things I do in life. This world is incredibly multi-faceted and the deeper you go the more you discover. This unnecessary antiquated technology is in some ways capturing what’s best about human endeavour. The people/flippers who collect watches to make money are to some degree spoiling an industry. But I have the privilege of not needing to ever associate with them and I am more than happy to get a small collection of watches that aren’t coveted for their ‘residuals’ Important and necessary piece Andrew thank you
I think you hit the nail right on the head. I've been collecting for 3 plus years now and once I started thinking if this watch will appreciate and so on, the hobby stopped being fun. Since I realized I really like watches and no longer look at the price or if other watch lovers will think it is a good watch, I just buy what I like and don't care if goes up or down in value because I probably won't sell them anyway, I'm having too much fun with them. I invest in a boring index fund for my retirement, and I collect all watches because I love them. Watches are not investments for me and now I'm back to loving watches again.
I have personally been thru some more or less obsessive tweaks of do:s and dont´s when it comes to watches. When I grew up I spent quite a lot of time with my face glued to the shop windows of the local watch dealers and since you brought up hi-fi I spent just as much time in the Bang & Olufsen shop window as well. I loved the mystery of the shiny and intricate aviator watches from Breitling for example that i drooled over about 20 years ago. Needless to say when I got my first paycheck a bought a watch that I really liked but that the community of today would´ve hated. I feel like people can get swept away with how things should and shouldnt be because someone running a watch channel or blog tells them what is OK and what isn´t. I pity them because it feels like these people are getting groomed into loving brands for no other reason than that someone has told them that these are the brands that deserve their affection. This is so extremely boring and as a very diverse collector I just want to get on the ground and have a massive tantrum because people keep dragging up the same grail watches over and over and over again and they have lost all meaning to me now. As and exampel I really wanted to get a modern GMT as a daily beater as a celebration to the old tropical dials that I loved growing up, but now after all this insane hype that has been going on for the last couple of years and how boringly mainstream it has gotten. Now I just cant see myself getting one of these watches anymore. I do feel blessed for getting dragged into this well before all the hype culture sank their claws into this world even more than it already was to begin with. I do rest assured that they will drag their supreme clad hype knuckles over to the next big ticket item and leave the rest of us alone and go back to reselling PS5´s on Ebay and stockX and the world will be a better place for it. Sorry for the rant, it comes from a place of deep affection.
@@eyeheartsushi2212 No it was a fashion house watch. It was real pretty though. Black dial, simplistic, swiss made and lasted for a long time before it took a bad dive. Now all I have left is heirloom watches from my grandfathers and my daily beater Pelagos blu. I would like to expand with a new chronograph or a vintage Patek calatrava. But nothing new unless I am celebrating something important.
I don't really know why it is so serious. My experience has now been able to find fun in it by buying cheap watches that mostly come out of factories in China. I was a serious collector for a number of years, usually having 3 or 4 watches at a time. Some that I've had included an IWC GST Perpetual calendar, a Rolex datejust and a Sinn 103. My current three watches are an Omega Seamaster, a Tag Heuer Aquaracer GMT and a Grand Seiko Sprig Drive. I've also picked up three very cheap Chinese watches that I really likes the look of. One is a Vincero bronze case diver, one is a Fawler Ryka chronograph and the last one is a William L chronograph GMT. All have Japanese quartz movements. Finding these 3 watches and buying them has been great fun. I love the look of each one and I don't care about depreciation or where the market is heading on that particular brand. I'm actually looking for another couple to add to the collection now. Trawling through mainly ebay around the world has been enjoyable to see what takes my fancy. Surprisingly the Vincero bronze case diver gets a lot more positive comments than the Grand Seiko. Go figure.
Yup actually all this noise was concocted by slick salesmen pushed and hyped by UA-camr hypers flippers masquerading as experts...in reality they were just out to some money grab. Sad for those who fell for all these "investment" bs . If it were so good why are those same hypers selling? Why not just hold on to them?
I am so happy you opened your personal channel. You are a breath of fresh air. Thank you! I agree that people take everything so seriously. I believe there is a clear difference in between watch enthusiasts and watch snobs. I do not care what brand is on my wrist if it is a quality one and makes me happy. I also don't buy watches for the hype, but only if I like them. Whenever you don't know about a subject, you always pay more. More money doesn't mean better quality.
Well said Andrew! I think the watch collector puts far too much sway on the investment possibility rather than the shear pleasure of collecting. I love to gaze upon my watches, each has it's own merit. I admit I can be swayed by popular opinion but I can also make my own choice. I recently sold my 16710 because 17 yrs ago my wife bought me a 1950 Omega bumper as a wedding gift. It still works, and so I always wanted a modern Omega. That itch has been scratched with a Planet Ocean and I could not be happier, ( astonishingly accurate). Having said that, my many Seiko's, and minor brands such as Nite not to mention Tissot and TAG give me as much if not more pleasure because people will talk about them. At the end of the day there are two types of watch collector I think. Those that speculate, and engineers or horologists who simply appreciate.
I'm lucky in that I don't have the disposable income a lot of collectors have so I'm happy buying crappy seikos and the like that make me smile. I've only been interested and collecting since lockdown but every watch I have is one that spoke to me in some way, regardless of what anyone else might think about them and reselling them later has never crossed my mind. I think those issues come in once you pass a certain price threshold, because once you pass the 4-5k price point, value and resalability is a genuine concern.
A nicer HiFi lets you hear the music more clearly/tailor it to your tastes. A nicer car lets you handle the corners better or get whiplash as you press the accelerator. A nicer watch lets you tell the time better... Ummm nope (not that we get great enjoyment from telling the time more accurately anyway). Other than as a status symbol it tends to be harder to really classify what the benefit of watch collecting is. Is the joy that we get to pretend we are astronauts or exploring the ocean depths?
I love your no nonsense reviews. True knowledge & light hearted attitude. I love my f91 as much as my oris... they both do their own thing but are equal in the great scheme of things...
Buying something you think the community will approve of instead of buying what you want, aka peer pressure, is such a good point. That probably happens way too much
YES! I agree. Well, sort of... Watch collectors are more like stock traders. They wheel and deal, pound their fists and yell and scream (hence the reason I always found the name 'Janet YELLEN' so appropriate.) Now, watch AFICIONADOS, simply LOVE watches and appreciate them to the point of tears. Likewise, they will just as likely purchase an inexpensive but beautiful watch to hoard as an expensive one to trade. There IS a difference.
In my opinion, the serious nature of watch collecting directly correlates with one thing: Status. For those that wrap up their hobby with their status, to admit that it’s just a bit of fun diminishes their self worth. Conversely, if they take it very serious, it keeps their perceived self worth elevated.
I think people would calm down if everyone could just admit that we're really just buying fancy mechanical jewellery. Mechanical watches are obsolete. Our stubborn desire to keep buying them is an affectation, nothing more. We chase after specs, that for most of us, have no practical benefit. We cleave to brands as if they somehow define us as people, and by buying the right ones we'll somehow achieve validation. It's so silly. And a little sad.
Well said, I have been collecting about 11-12 years and I've always thought the same thing. I think so much of it comes down to 'status' ... I have an ABC so it is better than your XYZ ... Also, so many people wear watches for 'flexing' or showing off how rich they are (or pretend they are). Nice video, I love collecting and enjoy my cheap micro brand watches just as much as my more expensive 'big name Swiss brands'. One person may enjoy their $10 Timex more than someone else may enjoy their $15,000 Rolex and vice versa
hit the nail on the head. there's the stress of having spent too much on a watch, and there's the stress of worrying whether your peer group will like said watch, and after your watch meet-up there's the stress of worrying whether you yourself actually like the watch, then theres the stress of selling it for enough money that you can afford a different watch that you think you might like better. And there's stress when the watch companies make a plastic copy of your favourite watch. Not to mention the stress around having to get it serviced (and if you're a Seiko fan, that's every 2-3 years, astonishingly). The only joy, really, is when the light catches your watch Just So while you're driving. A brief moment of admiration before the doubts creep in and the sun goes behind a cloud..."shouldn't have got the moonphase speedy"
@@donmongoose yeah i think the newer ones are more problematic coz they push the poor thing to its limits to get decent power reserve. OTOH do you find you're often late for work? 😊
@@wilkosoft One of the great things about having multiple watches all with "low" power reserves means I automatically set whichever watch I'm wearing that day in the morning. I literally never pick up a watch and find it still running, so long term accuracy isn't an issue, I love unintended benefits lol
LOL the joy of seeing the light catching the dial while driving is spot on.
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As a fragrance enthusiast I must say there is a parallelism between watches and perfumes when it comes to the "hardcore" fans, the collectors. Everything gets kind of "serious", in a "right vs wrong" kind of approach, which I find ridiculous, as it defeats the whole purpose of collecting anything: enjoying the nuances of the craft, getting to know the many layers behind the "Oh I like this" and appreciate much more the whole thing, and having fun. Terrific video.
Well, most of us do not take it like that. But the minority of us who are veeery serious about it and also have very strong opinions usually write a lot of comments.
I’m selling 3 watches on eBay. One is a victorinox, which I’m losing money on. The second is a Tudor date that I’m breaking even on, and the third is another Tudor day date that I’ve got priced a little over what I paid for it. I hope to break even overall, but I won’t lose sleep if I don’t sell anything
Hifi is ultimately about enjoying music and cars are about enjoy driving. Money cost, heritage - it all comes second and doesn't even matter for hifi, cars are bought for prestige and as status symbols too, but you can also enjoy it personally regardless of it's pricetag and brand value. While luxury watches are all about value and prestige and fashion - all things outside of personal enjoyment. People who buy toolwatches for themselves are probably more happy than Rolex flippers "collectors" who always stress about the market prices.
I own 5 watches, but I’ve never thought of myself as a collector. I bought a Seamaster Diver 300 last week, before that I hadn’t bought a watch for 8 years and I’ve never sold a watch. In that 8 years I’ve been happy to just wear my watches and I’ve taken no notice of trends and I’ve not watched any social media stuff around watches. All of this stuff around watches being investments is news to me, and I only learned a month ago about the waiting list for Rolex and the inflated prices for used models. Things have changed massively, and not for the better. I will go back under my rock. I will continue to enjoy my watches without thinking of resale value and I don’t care that my Panerai is too fecking big for my skinny wrist. Because I don’t care about anyone else’s opinion, therefore I am happy in my ignorant state 😊
Absolutely right, its why Jenni Elle and Ben's Watch Club (and yourself) tend to be my favourite watch youtubers. There's a palpable joy there in the hobby that I think is vital.
Agree. For me watch collecting should be fun as I think any hobby should be fun. Some hobbies are about 'pride of accomplishment' and some are about 'pride of ownership', as with watches. The enjoyment of having one, holding it, fiddling with it and even wearing it is my end game. I like my Timex field watch as much as my TAG F1 GMT. And wear it more.
Why is collecting watch considered a hobby in the first place? What makes it collecting as opposed to consumerism? Are people taking a coaxial escarpment or spring drive movement apart and put them back together again for fun? How many of you out there could replicate a parachrom bleu hairsping in your basement shop? Woodworking is a hobby. Baking is a hobby, knitting is a hobby. Stamp collecting was hobby when I was kid because you learned about all kinds of places and cultures and you had to steam the damn stamps off letters and glue them into a binder so it even had a physical aspect to it. And it's what you did with your dad or uncle on a rainy Sunday afternoon. I don't know about you but if I took my kid to a Rolex AD all he would learn about would be the humiliation of tbeing put on a fictional waitlist and if I showed him listings on Watchfinder, or Watchbox, or DavidSW, or Bob's he would learn about flippers and price gouging as I taught him when you sell a watch you no longer love to dealer they pay you wholesale so they can resell it a retail, of course unless its the God of watches Rolex. Doesn't really sound like a hobby to me. It sounds more like simply life in a capitalist society where you are judged not by what you do but the choices you made in what you own. And I say this as a guy who has 5 Rolexes which I love to wear but recognize they are property no different than my car and house, That is very different than the apple cake I baked this morning for my wife who loves my apple cake.and who always shares it with her colleagues. And that makes me much happier than my 5 Rolexes...and GS Skyflake.. and Tudor BB58...and 1962 Omega Constellation...and JLC Geophysic 58. See what I mean?
Well said. I really like your approach to this hobby. It’s refreshing to not continually be chasing the next “grail” and be able to just appreciate the world of horology. I agree that people have become obsessed with others opinions, instead of buying what they like. It’s sad really. I have a black 36mm Rolex OP 12600. 7.25in wrist. I really really like the design and heritage. My grandpa wore a 36mm watch, and now so do. I had considered following the hype train for other watches (like explorer, BB58, sub, seamaster) but only because I see others opinions. Your channel helps me to let others have their opinions, while I enjoy what I like about watches. Thank you.
You know I have noticed this and I cannot figure it out. One of my other hobbies is painting, all abstract. That is a hobby that requires skill. It can be endlessly frustrating and very time consuming and the other day I was working on a painting that I have over 100 hours of work in when I made an irreparable mistake. At that moment I had an epiphany about watch collecting, all it takes to be a watch collector is MONEY. That's it. Its an easy hobby, so why so contentious?
I've only been into the hobby for around 4 years...and at an affordable level...but, I agree with you , so far as I have seen. What's affordable to me, is to buy...maybe, 2 watches a year, in the $500-$AUD2000 range...roughly. And vintage/secondhand is my preferred these days( new models aren't appealing so much ). I like the divers of the 80's and 90's most, it seems. I'm making some effort not to go crazy with this new hobby....because I know what it's like to just go and buy every semi-interesting looking toy that pops up on eBay. And I'm old enough now to appreciate downsizing...haha!
A few things I refuse to discuss with others, politics with politicos, religion with zealots and lastly collecting with collectors. My personal philosophy is simple, buy the watches that I love, the ones that put a smile on my face regardless of heritage or price. Trust me you'll be better off for it. Great analysis video.
Being mostly broke (middle class) spending 2-3k on a watch is a planned event. So once in a while I scratch the itch looking for a less than $100 vintage watch at antique auctions and flea markets, that makes me smile 😃. So far I've found a 214 bulova railroad, just needed a battery and a Saxony dive watch from the 60s.
You sir are a very sensible man. It's the Level of satisfaction that counts. Those loudmouth UA-camrs hypers flippers posing as reviewers and showing off, many are way over their heads under water. Many are actually very insecure people. What' you're doing is very laudible! Wishing you all the best... Best regards
I think, even with a hifi set up, it's still something you researched bought seperates for and in a way "build". Watches are not much a tinker hobby and I think the tinker is what makes the happy
Like a tear-enducing onion, watch collecting is replete with numerous layers. One of those consists of modern day tulip speculators. It’s a noticeable phenomenon because they’re a noisy bunch. And resale value is a souless topic. Combine the subject-matter and the volume at which it’s broadcast, it’s little wonder much this arcane little hobby can appear bereft of joy. That’s why I peel that layer away.
Certain watches have become part of the flex culture and quick buck culture (flippers), I'm sure you know the brands. These days the watch geek has been pushed to the back of the queue. But I'm excited when I see any watch i recognise as a nice watch in the wider world.
I just like collecting watches, no matter the price but mostly from those manufacturers which have a charitable cause. Don’t really care about status and all that guff. I just enjoy the products I buy.
Yup…you’re 100% spot on. If you want to see some smiles, though, check out Britt, Jenne, and Elizabeth…three ladies who know something about watches and drop some fun reviews.
I don't know I buy watches because I like the way they look and my gut tells me I have to have them. that said I do try to look for the best deal but if the perceived value on the watch Market goes up or down I really don't care because I don't plan on selling any of my watches. so for me it's all about enjoyment. winding it up before I put it on. setting the time the date possibly the day. I don't try to please anybody but myself. it's my money my wrist. I don't care what anyone else thinks. I don't know maybe I'm just selfish?
Every video you produce is a pleasure to watch. I get excited when I spot a new upload - make a brew and tell the kids to pretend that I don't exist for a while. Thank you. I couldn't agree with you more. I never buy based on common sense - the only requirement is that it must ignite my need to have one. That is why my collection ranges from the standard right through to the Devon Treat 2... next target is the MAD 1 Red and with that, I rest my case...
Great writing job. I think the problem is in collectors making it part of an investment portfolio. No love for the beauty of the object, the sheer difficulty in the making, or the sheer fin of collecting. Something's in life should be just enjoyed, not sitting in a safe.
I got sucked into watch-youtube recently because I thought I might start wearing a watch again after a decade or so without. I have been completely stupefied and fascinated by the world of watch investing ever since. I feel like I’ve tuned in just as the emperor is being told he is naked, but there is still some disagreement among his advisors as to his nakedness. I can’t look away. I have bought a $40 Timex Weekender during this period, and it is making me happy. Thanks for the fun watch vids!
It is not so much the monetary appreciation (of very few watches), it is the flexing games. The Tudors, Grand Seikos, Cartiers, Omegas and especially Rolexes are used as wealth/class signifiers, showing upper middle class to the people who haven't got there yet. When I come in with my Chinese cheapos (especially the homages) I find rare approval from other collectors of cheap watches, mostly I would be ignored, but not uncommonly I would be scolded for undermining the narrative.
Just found you and this channel this year. This is perhaps my favourite episode seen so far (been binge watching for what seems like weeks ;¬) Keep up the great work _________________ BTW the sound system improved *dramatically* with a mains conditioner ;¬p) resulting in many grins... Greetings, Andrew. To you and yours
I love watch collecting but agree it can be serious at times,have a bought the right one,should I have bought the other one etc but still it's a process we go through,looking,ordering,waiting for watch to arrive,wearing the watch then the process begins again after a while.
I have a number of collections and hobbies, and the one universal truth that I have discovered is that the happy people, the ones who really enjoy it, are all just at home enjoying it quietly and not interacting online. I am always a bit surprised when the question of value comes in watch collecting. I am fairly new to the hobby and restricted to mostly the affordable end, and the issue of value or return has never been a factor at all. I have, by my own admission, a collection of beaters (by value compared to most collections), and I couldn't be happier! It's an inherently ridiculous hobby..... but then most hobbies are pretty ridiculous.... let's not talk about golf!
Bec the "investment" angle was Coined by slick salesmen posing as UA-camr experts when they were just hypers and flippers out to make some money grab. Suddenly everything u buy to enjoy is an investment. When every other guy u bump into is an investor....you know the drill Best regards
I'm new to this world, and also hail from cars, hi-fi audio, and photography. Honestly, I don't see too much stuffiness. I'm in a small chat group and facebook group and both seem pretty upbeat and supportive. Almost no one in the chat group is financially endowed enough to afford watches that appreciate in value. The facebook group I'm in is the typical Omega watch owners group, so while some are appreciating value, many are not. So...maybe what you're speculating makes sense? I'm not sure, I'm still new =D
@@AndrewMorganWatches Think you may be onto something about investment grade snobbery. When ROI becomes a consideration, it changes the math(s). Try some smaller communities that aren't at the higher price points and linger for a while. See if they treat the hobby differently?
Honestly it's not unusual or rare for this behavior in watch collecting. I see it in all collector groups. Audiophiles are just as bad. Gatekeeping is a thing. Science fiction. Sports. Crypto. Foodies. Whiskey. Name it. If there is competition or prestige or being OG or having a championship banner. It's just people trying to be better than others. It's sad. But it's true.
It's funny. I have about 10 watches. I can't wear that many and it just doesn't make sense... but I don't think I've ever put so much effort into deciding which ones to buy as I have those watches. A house? Not really. I bought what was available in my budget. A car? Meh... anything will do in my price range, as long as it's reliable. But a watch? No way would I simply just press the trigger on just anything. When you do "that much" research, it hurts to get it wrong. And that probably explains why we all take it some damn seriously. There's just so much of ourselves invested in that choice. Least of all the money that we are willing to part with to back up our choice.
It's only serious for the people who live online and take it too seriously. If you go out in the real world and talk to normal people you'll find most people are much more level-headed in real life.
It’s hard to help this absurdity when you have some youtubers trashing certain brands because they lose value as soon as you walk out of the AD, and when you have so called watch experts praising Rolecks as “God Tier”, because they are good investments.
@@AndrewMorganWatches Oh don't get me wrong, I love the dry humor and the constant car metaphors but let's be real-- the general perception of Watchfinder is that of a 'serious' watch channel.
@@TYPEV3 I hope that’s not entirely true-I’ve tried to never take watches so seriously as to fawn over insignificant details and hold unjustifiable brand allegiances. Through it all I want the message to be a very un-serious “it doesn’t matter which watch you like.”
Most of the people are no watch collectors. Maybe enthusiasts. You also don't become a sneaker collector by owning 2-3 pairs of sneakers. Everything becomes a collection these days... 😂😂😂
Hi Andrew. The answer to your topic concern are broad and complex really. It's akin to doing forensics in attempt to identify the cause of an incident which are usually never singular cause, if you got my drift Andrew. Even if you look into specific reasonings, it's still complex due to varied factor elements, as you've mentioned on abouts hi-fi's and automobiles as general examples. After all, we are living in this materialistic world and history shows. Hobbies aren't created equal and stuffs that made it qualifies it's value degrees perceptions, hence the serious degrees to some extent for watches in particular, as you and we could relate and aware of its typical appeal. Don't forget that we humans are complex creatures that seemed to dwell in appealling complicated matters such as watches. Best regards Andrew and viva watch hobby ! 🤓⌚👍
I think collecting watches isn't a "journey". LIFE, on the other hand, is pretty much it. Collecting watches is a hobby and it should be as fun and as subjective as it could be. Thank you Andrew for bringing back some lucidity.
Vostoks make me happy. There, I've said it. Have I opened Pandoras box in this particular comments section? I hope not as its a 100% honest statement. Are they the best watches out there? No, almost certainly not. But what I love is the affordability, the mix n match nature of the design and the many hours of tinkering theyve given me. I have other watches (all budget) inc Seiko, Steeldive and Wenger but it's the Vostoks that have a place in my heart. They definitely make me smile and they give me great pleasure whether on my wrist or on my workbench. Given a better budget then makes such as Tudor and Omega would certainly make an appearance and they would be precious to me. But, until that day I'll keep on having fun at the cheap n cheerful end of the market. Remember, if it ain't fun you're doing it wrong! 😉 atb, Kev
Buying flowers is luxury, buying perfumes is luxury...even expensive candles are luxury....you enjoy them and then are left empty handed. Those goods are true luxury. A 50k watch that never loses value or even gains it is NOT luxury. Ironically that is for people who cannot afford luxury. That is why it becomes so serious.
True ! buying luxury is consuming luxury. When someone buys something and gets sleepless nights over the resale value... that is not luxury consumption. And most likely they bought way over their limits. That's gambling. You are absolutely correct!
Thats the irony of this entire Rolex, AP, Patek ....circus; many people just park money on their wrists to show they had (often barely) enough to buy that watch. These are the same brands where every watch changes the most wrist in their life span, so they were never truly loved. They are the escorts for wrists :))
Would you entertain the idea of doing a personal watch collection video? I'm very curious to see what watches you value enough to obtain. I'm sure you realize how much you've influenced other peoples' collections. (Grand Seiko!!!!)
I wouldn't call myself a collector but I do have quite a few watches for me I only buy a watch if it puts a smile on my face when I wear it. The instant your worried about it as an investment stop, just enjoy wearing them
Hey Andrew, thanks for interesting discussion and insights as always. Would you open a discord server for everyone watching you to interact with each other and maybe even discuss your other hobbies about cars and hifi? I think a place for everyone to discuss the fun watches, share their watch stories, red flag warnings, video feedbacks or ideas could be a fun engagement. Maybe its a lot of work for now but maybe something in store for the future.
Agree, we take things in this hobby way to serious. I‘m also collecting knives and in this community we can get into a quite serious argument about steel, grind angles and so on. But in the end we congrat each other for the purchase, smile about our silly argument and are well aware, that we are a bunch of nerds caring about things nobody else even give a sh…t about 😏
Most hobbies are skewed towards something that pleases onself rather than impressing someone else. With watch collecting its hard to take the second part out of the equation
Buy what you like and enjoy it, always used to be the way to go with watches. Then Rolex demand outstripped supply and enter the speculator stage left. As soon as watches became tradable commodities rather than joyous items that were bought to enjoy and admire, it all changed, and every question on the regular watch Q&A videos became “which watch model should I invest in “ The moonswatch is a great example, how many buyers queue up because they really look forward to wearing and enjoying their plastic toy Speedy lookalike 🤔
It is an oddity isn't it?! When I see someone's piece I am interested to find out what drew them to it...and likewise explain what I see in one of my pieces to them (if they are interested!). I can talk as excitedly about my Kudoke as I do about my El Primero or my vintage Gallet or my Citizen Eco Drive!!! I think perhaps those who tie too much of their identity or self worth into an inanimate object feel the need to seek praise and/or defend it at all cost.
Why so serious?! Tell me why you think people take watch collecting so seriously!
The ones who take it seriously aren't doing it for the watches; they want the status associated to the watches.
Just a few videos in and you've already gone super click baity.. what a shame. That's why I unsubbed from watchfinder.
@@nohandles406 The actual content is the same, so it shouldn’t matter. I’m making the content I want to talk about in the way I want to make it. If the titles and thumbnails aren’t optimised, the channel fails. Would you prefer the Watchfinder channel to fail?
@@nohandles406 if we want good, independent watch content with high production quality to be made, people need to watch it, they need to click on the videos. Nobody is going to watch Kevin from Birmingham reviewing a G-Shock in his basement next to his cat's litter box filmed on an iPhone 4s. Just watch the videos and ignore the titles.
Stuff the naysayers - this was a great film, and well worth a smile......cheers! Good to have a quick check to remind us all that we love watches, and don't really care if the aforementioned trinkets are worth $30K or $0K after a few years.....
I've been collecting watches for about a year now, and I have 5 watches which cost under $500 and which I never intend to sell. I got into watch collecting with the intention of losing money. That's what you do when you buy things, you lose money to gain a product. If you buy something with the intention of not keeping it, are you collecting or are you just speculating?
Same here
@thecianinator :))) ...only time can tell.
Good point
You could argue that you’re buying the experience of owning something. You can’t hold and keep a holiday or day out with friends but that doesn’t devalue either of those things
Totally agree with you Andrew. No other interest, hobby or pastime I have ever participated in is quite like watch collecting. We argue and debate on the merits of the tiniest, most insignificant and superficial detail or difference with terminal intensity.
I always liken watch collecting to the business card scene in American Psycho. We’re all Patrick Bateman in our very own version of that iconic boardroom scene and to any outside observer we look and sound absolutely ridiculous 😂 “Let’s see Paul Allen’s watch “ 🤣
My family & friend's can't figure it out when I get all excited & tell them I'm getting a new watch they say why you already have more than you need 😳 & their right I just can't explain it .
@@juniorjohnson5961 just tell them hobbies are like that
The hands talking about audio!? I love it. Glad your wall power tastes clean; mine tastes very metallic. I’m going to complain to my landlord. Keep up the fantastic work Andrew. Really enjoying the new personal channel.
Metallic taste means you’ll get sibilance, best get that sorted! Thanks very much 😊
Good conversation! I think we tend to get serious because of the amount of money involved. When starting out, $1,000 seemed like a lot. Then you start learning more and taking more incremental steps, 3K, 5K, 8K, 10K, 20K. It's an interesting mindset to be wearing something so expensive on ones wrist. Everyone is at different levels. Some of these holy grails are elusive and out of reach...
I’m at the 5K tier now and (hopefully) will stay there for a while 😂
I nearly spent $5K on a Blackbay 58, by far the most I would have spent on a watch. But something at the back of my mind told me not to to it. I had the money to pay for it up front, so that wasn't the problem. I think I realised it would be a slippery slope to spending ever more eye watering sums on luxury watches as I gradually became desensitized to the cost and any joy a new watch would bring. I think I made the right decision. Now, if only I could stop binging on all those UA-cam watch videos
@@goldencalf5144 You’re right about becoming desensitized. Did you get another watch instead of the BB58?
@@eyeheartsushi2212 No, thankfully I got fixated on another, less expensive interest than luxury watches. Having said that, I do find myself thinking about the BB58 from time to time. Maybe I'll just get a Timex Q instead and see if that scratches my itch.
@@goldencalf5144 Cheers!
Spot on! I live alone in the woods. No close neighbors. No real social life (because I live in the woods.) No one I ever meet gives a flying rat's ass about the watch I'm wearing. The only smiles I see are the ones in the mirror. So the critics who think I paid too much for a timepiece can...well you know what they can do. I buy watches for me - and they make me happy! 😁(See the teeth there??)
I see them 😄
Beautifully articulated! I have to agree, watches being bought for their notional market values rather than for their stories are taking the fun out of it, but as a newbie I found the small community of Seiko-modders the place where all the fun seems to have been kept alive by people who aren't bound by resale values of their timepieces, and all just appreciate and go weak in the knees over each others' creations and possessions. I think the fact that they're relatively affordable timepieces and no one in the community cares about resale value and appreciation makes a huge difference there.
For me, watches are an extension of who I am as a person. An indication of my character. I love having something unusual, cool, different to what the flow is going with. I love finding something that offers value & craftmanship over & above the price. All of that sees my collection range from an Instrmnt to Zelos, Christopher Ward, Cartier, Omega, Tudor & Rolex. I'm keenly awaiting my Studio Underd0g Strawberries & Cream. It's serious stuff alright but my desire stems from being a compulsive, obsessive individual with an attention span of a Gnat. I'm a real life Andy, he of Lou & Andy notoriety :) Good luck with the channel BTW, I'm sure you'll be very successful with it!
Love this reply couldn’t have said it better
I think you absolutely have got it right. Very right. This has become way way too serious and that is exactly when all the fun is taken from this hobby. I especially see this with the Rolex community. Rolex has just become so much of an investment piece that people have forgotten that this is just a watch that tells the freaking time. The timing ticking away from your life. We all need to just lighten up and enjoy this hobby and these beautiful trinkets that we all love so much.
I just picked up one of the historical most important watch (at least for me) again, for a steal 15€ on ebay. A 1996 Flik Flak, close to the model I remember getting for my school enrollment. I just tinkered a new strap onto it.
Agree. Study of horology/watchmaking is a hobby (just like building a stereo system, where you are creating something). I find that most watch collecting is just buying stuff or hoarding, and then people stress when scrutinising their stuff
So easy to get caught up in our world of possessions until we lose our health or a loved one and reality crashes in and it becomes crystal clear what's important. On the other end of the spectrum is the reminder how fleeting the satisfaction is with luxery possessions of any kind. The more we get the more we want and the harder the gain in satisfaction each time. You summed up another dimension quite well that I missed until now. PS...your voice is unmistakable and a delight !
3:33 That sort of attitude applies to car buyers and hi fi enthusiasts too. Each fan community has this toxic segment of those who care too much about how they're perceived and those who can't wait to judge others.
My general attitude is to live and let live; everyone is entitled to do what makes them happy so long as it doesn't purposefully affect others. But this particular behavior is what drives prices up - ultimately affecting my ability to own the watches I want - so I'd be ever so grateful if this aspect of fandom went away.
100% agree with your opinion Andrew, sometimes people attach importance to things that really don't. Then there are the fan boys, who defend the brand they like as if their lives depend on it.
Thanks for your video.
You are correct, I’m one of the few that enjoy the hobby, I don’t care if I loose money with my purchase, all I care is that I like the watch I buy for my collection and I enjoy seeing and talking to others about watches! Greetings from Puerto Rico 🇵🇷
My personal favorite is grown men arguing in the comments section about which watches are better and God forbid some poor soul buy an homage because they can't afford the more expensive original. Dudes will shame you into inexistence.
Hell's Teeth, you just hit a point which is so relevant to many collectors. In fact, so relevant (hate to adopt your syntax, even in such a basic way), that I need to consider a note to my AD regarding a current situation. Which of-course I cannot share here! Thank you for the video...
Another favourite expression is "Every collection needs (watch X)", "Everybody needs to experience (watch Y)" or similar phrases, making it sound like a more or less mandatory list to check off one by one- almost putting pressure on people to experience the hobby in a certain very particular fashion.
It's amplified by social media personalities coming across as if they are wisdom personified and highlighting the same very limited number of watches over and over again.
It's a hobby and it should bring you pleasure, not pressure.
“Pleasure not pressure.” I love that.
Certainly watch collecting has become more serious for the past few years with all the talk of resale value or value retention. When monetary aspects get amplified, it contaminates the joy of any hobby. Fully agree with your sentiments and I always think it’s useful for such a video to remind us to just enjoy the hobby.
Good subject Andrew. I find that watching channels that have, or experiencing Micro brands have much more fun in their videos. Then the videos with ppl reviewing the state of their Rolex collection. Mainly because in the Rolex videos they are stressing about vaule retention. And not enjoying or wearing the watches. They almost see it as stock.
It’s crazy to not wear the watches
Love your enthusiasm. I’ve been been collecting for three years now and I’ve lost control. Thanks for all the in-depth info on so many fantastic watches.
Thanks for watching 😊
Me too
It’s tough to stay away!
I adore watches. Of all the devices one can have/interact with it’s my watch that feels like a little companion that outlasts everything else. Through thick and thin, all the trials and tribulations of life, my watch is there, ticking away, my little mechanical buddy. I love watches so much I can’t just have one, I have a little collection because they are so wonderful and suit different things I do in life. This world is incredibly multi-faceted and the deeper you go the more you discover. This unnecessary antiquated technology is in some ways capturing what’s best about human endeavour.
The people/flippers who collect watches to make money are to some degree spoiling an industry. But I have the privilege of not needing to ever associate with them and I am more than happy to get a small collection of watches that aren’t coveted for their ‘residuals’
Important and necessary piece Andrew thank you
I think you hit the nail right on the head. I've been collecting for 3 plus years now and once I started thinking if this watch will appreciate and so on, the hobby stopped being fun. Since I realized I really like watches and no longer look at the price or if other watch lovers will think it is a good watch, I just buy what I like and don't care if goes up or down in value because I probably won't sell them anyway, I'm having too much fun with them. I invest in a boring index fund for my retirement, and I collect all watches because I love them. Watches are not investments for me and now I'm back to loving watches again.
I have personally been thru some more or less obsessive tweaks of do:s and dont´s when it comes to watches.
When I grew up I spent quite a lot of time with my face glued to the shop windows of the local watch dealers and since you brought up hi-fi I spent just as much time in the Bang & Olufsen shop window as well.
I loved the mystery of the shiny and intricate aviator watches from Breitling for example that i drooled over about 20 years ago.
Needless to say when I got my first paycheck a bought a watch that I really liked but that the community of today would´ve hated. I feel like people can get swept away with how things should and shouldnt be because someone running a watch channel or blog tells them what is OK and what isn´t.
I pity them because it feels like these people are getting groomed into loving brands for no other reason than that someone has told them that these are the brands that deserve their affection. This is so extremely boring and as a very diverse collector I just want to get on the ground and have a massive tantrum because people keep dragging up the same grail watches over and over and over again and they have lost all meaning to me now. As and exampel I really wanted to get a modern GMT as a daily beater as a celebration to the old tropical dials that I loved growing up, but now after all this insane hype that has been going on for the last couple of years and how boringly mainstream it has gotten. Now I just cant see myself getting one of these watches anymore. I do feel blessed for getting dragged into this well before all the hype culture sank their claws into this world even more than it already was to begin with. I do rest assured that they will drag their supreme clad hype knuckles over to the next big ticket item and leave the rest of us alone and go back to reselling PS5´s on Ebay and stockX and the world will be a better place for it.
Sorry for the rant, it comes from a place of deep affection.
Was the watch you bought with the first paycheck a Movado, by any chance?
@@eyeheartsushi2212 No it was a fashion house watch. It was real pretty though. Black dial, simplistic, swiss made and lasted for a long time before it took a bad dive. Now all I have left is heirloom watches from my grandfathers and my daily beater Pelagos blu. I would like to expand with a new chronograph or a vintage Patek calatrava. But nothing new unless I am celebrating something important.
I don't really know why it is so serious. My experience has now been able to find fun in it by buying cheap watches that mostly come out of factories in China. I was a serious collector for a number of years, usually having 3 or 4 watches at a time. Some that I've had included an IWC GST Perpetual calendar, a Rolex datejust and a Sinn 103. My current three watches are an Omega Seamaster, a Tag Heuer Aquaracer GMT and a Grand Seiko Sprig Drive. I've also picked up three very cheap Chinese watches that I really likes the look of. One is a Vincero bronze case diver, one is a Fawler Ryka chronograph and the last one is a William L chronograph GMT. All have Japanese quartz movements. Finding these 3 watches and buying them has been great fun. I love the look of each one and I don't care about depreciation or where the market is heading on that particular brand. I'm actually looking for another couple to add to the collection now. Trawling through mainly ebay around the world has been enjoyable to see what takes my fancy. Surprisingly the Vincero bronze case diver gets a lot more positive comments than the Grand Seiko. Go figure.
Yup actually all this noise was concocted by slick salesmen pushed and hyped by UA-camr hypers flippers masquerading as experts...in reality they were just out to some money grab.
Sad for those who fell for all these "investment" bs .
If it were so good why are those same hypers selling? Why not just hold on to them?
I am so happy you opened your personal channel. You are a breath of fresh air. Thank you!
I agree that people take everything so seriously. I believe there is a clear difference in between watch enthusiasts and watch snobs.
I do not care what brand is on my wrist if it is a quality one and makes me happy.
I also don't buy watches for the hype, but only if I like them.
Whenever you don't know about a subject, you always pay more. More money doesn't mean better quality.
Thank you so much for watching 😊
Thank you, as a watch collector and a having worked in hi-fi when I was a teen, I feel the same as you.
Well said Andrew! I think the watch collector puts far too much sway on the investment possibility rather than the shear pleasure of collecting. I love to gaze upon my watches, each has it's own merit. I admit I can be swayed by popular opinion but I can also make my own choice. I recently sold my 16710 because 17 yrs ago my wife bought me a 1950 Omega bumper as a wedding gift. It still works, and so I always wanted a modern Omega. That itch has been scratched with a Planet Ocean and I could not be happier, ( astonishingly accurate). Having said that, my many Seiko's, and minor brands such as Nite not to mention Tissot and TAG give me as much if not more pleasure because people will talk about them. At the end of the day there are two types of watch collector I think. Those that speculate, and engineers or horologists who simply appreciate.
I'm lucky in that I don't have the disposable income a lot of collectors have so I'm happy buying crappy seikos and the like that make me smile. I've only been interested and collecting since lockdown but every watch I have is one that spoke to me in some way, regardless of what anyone else might think about them and reselling them later has never crossed my mind. I think those issues come in once you pass a certain price threshold, because once you pass the 4-5k price point, value and resalability is a genuine concern.
A nicer HiFi lets you hear the music more clearly/tailor it to your tastes. A nicer car lets you handle the corners better or get whiplash as you press the accelerator. A nicer watch lets you tell the time better... Ummm nope (not that we get great enjoyment from telling the time more accurately anyway). Other than as a status symbol it tends to be harder to really classify what the benefit of watch collecting is. Is the joy that we get to pretend we are astronauts or exploring the ocean depths?
Probably, cajanir... 🙂
I love your no nonsense reviews. True knowledge & light hearted attitude. I love my f91 as much as my oris... they both do their own thing but are equal in the great scheme of things...
Buying something you think the community will approve of instead of buying what you want, aka peer pressure, is such a good point. That probably happens way too much
YES! I agree. Well, sort of...
Watch collectors are more like stock traders. They wheel and deal, pound their fists and yell and scream (hence the reason I always found the name 'Janet YELLEN' so appropriate.)
Now, watch AFICIONADOS, simply LOVE watches and appreciate them to the point of tears. Likewise, they will just as likely purchase an inexpensive but beautiful watch to hoard as an expensive one to trade. There IS a difference.
In my opinion, the serious nature of watch collecting directly correlates with one thing: Status. For those that wrap up their hobby with their status, to admit that it’s just a bit of fun diminishes their self worth. Conversely, if they take it very serious, it keeps their perceived self worth elevated.
Oh my god I just now realized this is Mr. Talking Hands from Watchfinder. Binging the channel, subbed and great to see you finally Andrew!
Thanks very much!
I think people would calm down if everyone could just admit that we're really just buying fancy mechanical jewellery. Mechanical watches are obsolete. Our stubborn desire to keep buying them is an affectation, nothing more. We chase after specs, that for most of us, have no practical benefit. We cleave to brands as if they somehow define us as people, and by buying the right ones we'll somehow achieve validation. It's so silly. And a little sad.
Well said, I have been collecting about 11-12 years and I've always thought the same thing. I think so much of it comes down to 'status' ... I have an ABC so it is better than your XYZ ... Also, so many people wear watches for 'flexing' or showing off how rich they are (or pretend they are). Nice video, I love collecting and enjoy my cheap micro brand watches just as much as my more expensive 'big name Swiss brands'. One person may enjoy their $10 Timex more than someone else may enjoy their $15,000 Rolex and vice versa
Lucky I don't have that problem with watches.
hit the nail on the head. there's the stress of having spent too much on a watch, and there's the stress of worrying whether your peer group will like said watch, and after your watch meet-up there's the stress of worrying whether you yourself actually like the watch, then theres the stress of selling it for enough money that you can afford a different watch that you think you might like better. And there's stress when the watch companies make a plastic copy of your favourite watch. Not to mention the stress around having to get it serviced (and if you're a Seiko fan, that's every 2-3 years, astonishingly). The only joy, really, is when the light catches your watch Just So while you're driving. A brief moment of admiration before the doubts creep in and the sun goes behind a cloud..."shouldn't have got the moonphase speedy"
My 20+ year old SNZF15K1 I bought off ebay doesn't know the meaning of the word service lol
@@donmongoose yeah i think the newer ones are more problematic coz they push the poor thing to its limits to get decent power reserve. OTOH do you find you're often late for work? 😊
@@wilkosoft One of the great things about having multiple watches all with "low" power reserves means I automatically set whichever watch I'm wearing that day in the morning. I literally never pick up a watch and find it still running, so long term accuracy isn't an issue, I love unintended benefits lol
LOL the joy of seeing the light catching the dial while driving is spot on.
As a fragrance enthusiast I must say there is a parallelism between watches and perfumes when it comes to the "hardcore" fans, the collectors. Everything gets kind of "serious", in a "right vs wrong" kind of approach, which I find ridiculous, as it defeats the whole purpose of collecting anything: enjoying the nuances of the craft, getting to know the many layers behind the "Oh I like this" and appreciate much more the whole thing, and having fun. Terrific video.
Andrew, you have EXACTLY the correct amount of levity for this work.
Well, most of us do not take it like that. But the minority of us who are veeery serious about it and also have very strong opinions usually write a lot of comments.
I’m selling 3 watches on eBay. One is a victorinox, which I’m losing money on. The second is a Tudor date that I’m breaking even on, and the third is another Tudor day date that I’ve got priced a little over what I paid for it. I hope to break even overall, but I won’t lose sleep if I don’t sell anything
Hifi is ultimately about enjoying music and cars are about enjoy driving. Money cost, heritage - it all comes second and doesn't even matter for hifi, cars are bought for prestige and as status symbols too, but you can also enjoy it personally regardless of it's pricetag and brand value. While luxury watches are all about value and prestige and fashion - all things outside of personal enjoyment. People who buy toolwatches for themselves are probably more happy than Rolex flippers "collectors" who always stress about the market prices.
Really interesting point. Savour faire is one i keep seeing. I want to enjoy something because of what it is, not what it represents
I own 5 watches, but I’ve never thought of myself as a collector. I bought a Seamaster Diver 300 last week, before that I hadn’t bought a watch for 8 years and I’ve never sold a watch. In that 8 years I’ve been happy to just wear my watches and I’ve taken no notice of trends and I’ve not watched any social media stuff around watches. All of this stuff around watches being investments is news to me, and I only learned a month ago about the waiting list for Rolex and the inflated prices for used models. Things have changed massively, and not for the better. I will go back under my rock. I will continue to enjoy my watches without thinking of resale value and I don’t care that my Panerai is too fecking big for my skinny wrist. Because I don’t care about anyone else’s opinion, therefore I am happy in my ignorant state 😊
Absolutely right, its why Jenni Elle and Ben's Watch Club (and yourself) tend to be my favourite watch youtubers. There's a palpable joy there in the hobby that I think is vital.
Thanks very much 😊
Agree. For me watch collecting should be fun as I think any hobby should be fun. Some hobbies are about 'pride of accomplishment' and some are about 'pride of ownership', as with watches. The enjoyment of having one, holding it, fiddling with it and even wearing it is my end game. I like my Timex field watch as much as my TAG F1 GMT. And wear it more.
Why is collecting watch considered a hobby in the first place? What makes it collecting as opposed to consumerism? Are people taking a coaxial escarpment or spring drive movement apart and put them back together again for fun? How many of you out there could replicate a parachrom bleu hairsping in your basement shop?
Woodworking is a hobby. Baking is a hobby, knitting is a hobby. Stamp collecting was hobby when I was kid because you learned about all kinds of places and cultures and you had to steam the damn stamps off letters and glue them into a binder so it even had a physical aspect to it. And it's what you did with your dad or uncle on a rainy Sunday afternoon. I don't know about you but if I took my kid to a Rolex AD all he would learn about would be the humiliation of tbeing put on a fictional waitlist and if I showed him listings on Watchfinder, or Watchbox, or DavidSW, or Bob's he would learn about flippers and price gouging as I taught him when you sell a watch you no longer love to dealer they pay you wholesale so they can resell it a retail, of course unless its the God of watches Rolex. Doesn't really sound like a hobby to me. It sounds more like simply life in a capitalist society where you are judged not by what you do but the choices you made in what you own. And I say this as a guy who has 5 Rolexes which I love to wear but recognize they are property no different than my car and house, That is very different than the apple cake I baked this morning for my wife who loves my apple cake.and who always shares it with her colleagues. And that makes me much happier than my 5 Rolexes...and GS Skyflake.. and Tudor BB58...and 1962 Omega Constellation...and JLC Geophysic 58. See what I mean?
Every watch I own makes me smile when I put it on, especially my super cheap Invicta rainbow speedway.
Well said. I really like your approach to this hobby. It’s refreshing to not continually be chasing the next “grail” and be able to just appreciate the world of horology. I agree that people have become obsessed with others opinions, instead of buying what they like. It’s sad really.
I have a black 36mm Rolex OP 12600. 7.25in wrist. I really really like the design and heritage. My grandpa wore a 36mm watch, and now so do. I had considered following the hype train for other watches (like explorer, BB58, sub, seamaster) but only because I see others opinions.
Your channel helps me to let others have their opinions, while I enjoy what I like about watches. Thank you.
I’m glad I’ve helped, thank you for watching!
You know I have noticed this and I cannot figure it out. One of my other hobbies is painting, all abstract. That is a hobby that requires skill. It can be endlessly frustrating and very time consuming and the other day I was working on a painting that I have over 100 hours of work in when I made an irreparable mistake. At that moment I had an epiphany about watch collecting, all it takes to be a watch collector is MONEY. That's it. Its an easy hobby, so why so contentious?
I've only been into the hobby for around 4 years...and at an affordable level...but, I agree with you , so far as I have seen. What's affordable to me, is to buy...maybe, 2 watches a year, in the $500-$AUD2000 range...roughly. And vintage/secondhand is my preferred these days( new models aren't appealing so much ). I like the divers of the 80's and 90's most, it seems. I'm making some effort not to go crazy with this new hobby....because I know what it's like to just go and buy every semi-interesting looking toy that pops up on eBay. And I'm old enough now to appreciate downsizing...haha!
A few things I refuse to discuss with others, politics with politicos, religion with zealots and lastly collecting with collectors. My personal philosophy is simple, buy the watches that I love, the ones that put a smile on my face regardless of heritage or price. Trust me you'll be better off for it. Great analysis video.
Being mostly broke (middle class) spending 2-3k on a watch is a planned event. So once in a while I scratch the itch looking for a less than $100 vintage watch at antique auctions and flea markets, that makes me smile 😃. So far I've found a 214 bulova railroad, just needed a battery and a Saxony dive watch from the 60s.
You sir are a very sensible man. It's the Level of satisfaction that counts. Those loudmouth UA-camrs hypers flippers posing as reviewers and showing off, many are way over their heads under water. Many are actually very insecure people.
What' you're doing is very laudible!
Wishing you all the best...
Best regards
It represents one’s self and costs a lot
I think, even with a hifi set up, it's still something you researched bought seperates for and in a way "build". Watches are not much a tinker hobby and I think the tinker is what makes the happy
Like a tear-enducing onion, watch collecting is replete with numerous layers. One of those consists of modern day tulip speculators. It’s a noticeable phenomenon because they’re a noisy bunch. And resale value is a souless topic. Combine the subject-matter and the volume at which it’s broadcast, it’s little wonder much this arcane little hobby can appear bereft of joy. That’s why I peel that layer away.
Certain watches have become part of the flex culture and quick buck culture (flippers), I'm sure you know the brands. These days the watch geek has been pushed to the back of the queue. But I'm excited when I see any watch i recognise as a nice watch in the wider world.
I just like collecting watches, no matter the price but mostly from those manufacturers which have a charitable cause. Don’t really care about status and all that guff. I just enjoy the products I buy.
I think of Dave from just the Watch or Russel the Mad Watch Collector. Both very casual and fun in their approach to enjoying watches.
I love the hobby (I’ve been collecting watches for a little under 5 years so you have a decade on me!) But it is indeed a blood sport at times
Yup…you’re 100% spot on. If you want to see some smiles, though, check out Britt, Jenne, and Elizabeth…three ladies who know something about watches and drop some fun reviews.
Who's Elizabeth? I watch the other two.
I don't know I buy watches because I like the way they look and my gut tells me I have to have them. that said I do try to look for the best deal but if the perceived value on the watch Market goes up or down I really don't care because I don't plan on selling any of my watches. so for me it's all about enjoyment. winding it up before I put it on. setting the time the date possibly the day. I don't try to please anybody but myself. it's my money my wrist. I don't care what anyone else thinks. I don't know maybe I'm just selfish?
I love my tube amps! ( but I never think “hmmmm, maybe I need another one )
You could help , Andrew, by putting smilely faces on your hands when you do your Watchfinder reviews. 😊
😂
Managed to fit in a Colin chapman reference, amazing work. ‘Add lightness’ 🙌🏻
Every video you produce is a pleasure to watch. I get excited when I spot a new upload - make a brew and tell the kids to pretend that I don't exist for a while. Thank you.
I couldn't agree with you more. I never buy based on common sense - the only requirement is that it must ignite my need to have one. That is why my collection ranges from the standard right through to the Devon Treat 2... next target is the MAD 1 Red and with that, I rest my case...
Thanks Andrew.🙂
Great writing job.
I think the problem is in collectors making it part of an investment portfolio. No love for the beauty of the object, the sheer difficulty in the making, or the sheer fin of collecting.
Something's in life should be just enjoyed, not sitting in a safe.
I got sucked into watch-youtube recently because I thought I might start wearing a watch again after a decade or so without. I have been completely stupefied and fascinated by the world of watch investing ever since. I feel like I’ve tuned in just as the emperor is being told he is naked, but there is still some disagreement among his advisors as to his nakedness. I can’t look away. I have bought a $40 Timex Weekender during this period, and it is making me happy. Thanks for the fun watch vids!
Whatever makes you happy, don’t listen to anyone who tells you otherwise!
It is not so much the monetary appreciation (of very few watches), it is the flexing games. The Tudors, Grand Seikos, Cartiers, Omegas and especially Rolexes are used as wealth/class signifiers, showing upper middle class to the people who haven't got there yet. When I come in with my Chinese cheapos (especially the homages) I find rare approval from other collectors of cheap watches, mostly I would be ignored, but not uncommonly I would be scolded for undermining the narrative.
"Adding lightness in a Colin Chapman way", never heard a better analogy. As a fellow car and watch enthusiast, hats off to you Andrew.🎩
Thanks 😁
Just found you and this channel this year. This is perhaps my favourite episode seen so far (been binge watching for what seems like weeks ;¬) Keep up the great work
_________________
BTW the sound system improved *dramatically* with a mains conditioner ;¬p) resulting in many grins... Greetings, Andrew. To you and yours
100% spot on Andrew!
I love watch collecting but agree it can be serious at times,have a bought the right one,should I have bought the other one etc but still it's a process we go through,looking,ordering,waiting for watch to arrive,wearing the watch then the process begins again after a while.
“Should I have bought the other dial color?” 😂😂😂
I have a number of collections and hobbies, and the one universal truth that I have discovered is that the happy people, the ones who really enjoy it, are all just at home enjoying it quietly and not interacting online.
I am always a bit surprised when the question of value comes in watch collecting. I am fairly new to the hobby and restricted to mostly the affordable end, and the issue of value or return has never been a factor at all. I have, by my own admission, a collection of beaters (by value compared to most collections), and I couldn't be happier! It's an inherently ridiculous hobby..... but then most hobbies are pretty ridiculous.... let's not talk about golf!
Bec the "investment" angle was Coined by slick salesmen posing as UA-camr experts when they were just hypers and flippers out to make some money grab. Suddenly everything u buy to enjoy is an investment.
When every other guy u bump into is an investor....you know the drill
Best regards
@@Mega-zi7ys People servicing these watch collections will be the winners in the long run .
@@evanwolf6618 true
I'm new to this world, and also hail from cars, hi-fi audio, and photography. Honestly, I don't see too much stuffiness. I'm in a small chat group and facebook group and both seem pretty upbeat and supportive. Almost no one in the chat group is financially endowed enough to afford watches that appreciate in value. The facebook group I'm in is the typical Omega watch owners group, so while some are appreciating value, many are not. So...maybe what you're speculating makes sense? I'm not sure, I'm still new =D
Perhaps I’m long since jaded?
@@AndrewMorganWatches Think you may be onto something about investment grade snobbery. When ROI becomes a consideration, it changes the math(s). Try some smaller communities that aren't at the higher price points and linger for a while. See if they treat the hobby differently?
@@dBsdecibels you’re probably right. Come car investments types seem similar
Congratulations on your new channel!
Thank you!
Honestly it's not unusual or rare for this behavior in watch collecting. I see it in all collector groups. Audiophiles are just as bad. Gatekeeping is a thing. Science fiction. Sports. Crypto. Foodies. Whiskey. Name it. If there is competition or prestige or being OG or having a championship banner. It's just people trying to be better than others. It's sad. But it's true.
Watch collecting cost serious money.
Yes it is a serious hobby .
But you can always collect "cheaper" watches. It's the level of satisfaction that counts.
Best regards
It's funny. I have about 10 watches. I can't wear that many and it just doesn't make sense... but I don't think I've ever put so much effort into deciding which ones to buy as I have those watches.
A house? Not really. I bought what was available in my budget.
A car? Meh... anything will do in my price range, as long as it's reliable.
But a watch? No way would I simply just press the trigger on just anything.
When you do "that much" research, it hurts to get it wrong.
And that probably explains why we all take it some damn seriously.
There's just so much of ourselves invested in that choice. Least of all the money that we are willing to part with to back up our choice.
Really enjoyed this! Hit several nails on the head, and I loved the Chapman-esque comment!
It's only serious for the people who live online and take it too seriously. If you go out in the real world and talk to normal people you'll find most people are much more level-headed in real life.
It’s hard to help this absurdity when you have some youtubers trashing certain brands because they lose value as soon as you walk out of the AD, and when you have so called watch experts praising Rolecks as “God Tier”, because they are good investments.
Vintage and affordable collectors seem more cheerful.
Luxury watch speculation is a different type of delusion.
I agree 100% with this hobby being so serious.
That said, the Watchfinder channel might be one of the biggest sources of “seriousness”.
Are you sure? We called the Mars Speedmaster the Matt Damon edition 😅
@@AndrewMorganWatches Oh don't get me wrong, I love the dry humor and the constant car metaphors but let's be real-- the general perception of Watchfinder is that of a 'serious' watch channel.
@@TYPEV3 I hope that’s not entirely true-I’ve tried to never take watches so seriously as to fawn over insignificant details and hold unjustifiable brand allegiances. Through it all I want the message to be a very un-serious “it doesn’t matter which watch you like.”
Most of the people are no watch collectors. Maybe enthusiasts. You also don't become a sneaker collector by owning 2-3 pairs of sneakers. Everything becomes a collection these days... 😂😂😂
Ahhh you forgot another word .."investor"! Everyone is also suddenly an investor!
@@Mega-zi7ys Totally agree!
@@thomasweingarten2725 😆
Hi Andrew.
The answer to your topic concern are broad and complex really. It's akin to doing forensics in attempt to identify the cause of an incident which are usually never singular cause, if you got my drift Andrew.
Even if you look into specific reasonings, it's still complex due to varied factor elements, as you've mentioned on abouts hi-fi's and automobiles as general examples.
After all, we are living in this materialistic world and history shows. Hobbies aren't created equal and stuffs that made it qualifies it's value degrees perceptions, hence the serious degrees to some extent for watches in particular, as you and we could relate and aware of its typical appeal.
Don't forget that we humans are complex creatures that seemed to dwell in appealling complicated matters such as watches.
Best regards Andrew and viva watch hobby !
🤓⌚👍
I think collecting watches isn't a "journey". LIFE, on the other hand, is pretty much it. Collecting watches is a hobby and it should be as fun and as subjective as it could be. Thank you Andrew for bringing back some lucidity.
Vostoks make me happy. There, I've said it. Have I opened Pandoras box in this particular comments section? I hope not as its a 100% honest statement. Are they the best watches out there? No, almost certainly not. But what I love is the affordability, the mix n match nature of the design and the many hours of tinkering theyve given me.
I have other watches (all budget) inc Seiko, Steeldive and Wenger but it's the Vostoks that have a place in my heart. They definitely make me smile and they give me great pleasure whether on my wrist or on my workbench.
Given a better budget then makes such as Tudor and Omega would certainly make an appearance and they would be precious to me. But, until that day I'll keep on having fun at the cheap n cheerful end of the market.
Remember, if it ain't fun you're doing it wrong! 😉
atb, Kev
Buying flowers is luxury, buying perfumes is luxury...even expensive candles are luxury....you enjoy them and then are left empty handed. Those goods are true luxury. A 50k watch that never loses value or even gains it is NOT luxury. Ironically that is for people who cannot afford luxury. That is why it becomes so serious.
True !
buying luxury is consuming luxury.
When someone buys something and gets sleepless nights over the resale value... that is not luxury consumption. And most likely they bought way over their limits. That's gambling.
You are absolutely correct!
Thats the irony of this entire Rolex, AP, Patek ....circus; many people just park money on their wrists to show they had (often barely) enough to buy that watch. These are the same brands where every watch changes the most wrist in their life span, so they were never truly loved. They are the escorts for wrists :))
Would you entertain the idea of doing a personal watch collection video? I'm very curious to see what watches you value enough to obtain. I'm sure you realize how much you've influenced other peoples' collections. (Grand Seiko!!!!)
Yeah I think I will at some point
I wouldn't call myself a collector but I do have quite a few watches for me I only buy a watch if it puts a smile on my face when I wear it. The instant your worried about it as an investment stop, just enjoy wearing them
Hey Andrew, thanks for interesting discussion and insights as always. Would you open a discord server for everyone watching you to interact with each other and maybe even discuss your other hobbies about cars and hifi? I think a place for everyone to discuss the fun watches, share their watch stories, red flag warnings, video feedbacks or ideas could be a fun engagement. Maybe its a lot of work for now but maybe something in store for the future.
Never say never! I don’t have the bandwidth right now but it’s certainly on my wish list. Thanks for watching!
Discussing vintage stuffs on discord. I’m in.
Agree, we take things in this hobby way to serious.
I‘m also collecting knives and in this community we can get into a quite serious argument about steel, grind angles and so on. But in the end we congrat each other for the purchase, smile about our silly argument and are well aware, that we are a bunch of nerds caring about things nobody else even give a sh…t about 😏
Most hobbies are skewed towards something that pleases onself rather than impressing someone else. With watch collecting its hard to take the second part out of the equation
Interesting - I have the same hobby’s and interests as a man who, for years, only had hands but now has a face
Knives collecting is very similar to watches in this sense.
Buy what you like and enjoy it, always used to be the way to go with watches.
Then Rolex demand outstripped supply and enter the speculator stage left.
As soon as watches became tradable commodities rather than joyous items that were bought to enjoy and admire, it all changed, and every question on the regular watch Q&A videos became “which watch model should I invest in “
The moonswatch is a great example, how many buyers queue up because they really look forward to wearing and enjoying their plastic toy Speedy lookalike 🤔
It is an oddity isn't it?! When I see someone's piece I am interested to find out what drew them to it...and likewise explain what I see in one of my pieces to them (if they are interested!). I can talk as excitedly about my Kudoke as I do about my El Primero or my vintage Gallet or my Citizen Eco Drive!!!
I think perhaps those who tie too much of their identity or self worth into an inanimate object feel the need to seek praise and/or defend it at all cost.
Exactly! They're the insecure bunch!😁