Hey Joshua! A suggestion to test the performance of both connectors completely independent of the cells connected: Hook up each the connectors between a dummy load and a lab power supply. hook your most sensitive multimeter to measure the voltage drop on one side of the connector (let's pick the ground side of the connector and multiply the result by two, or measure both high and low side). Now set the lab supply to 4V do a series of measurements of the voltage drop at the connector itself at different amps of load so you can actually accurately calculate the resistance of the connector using ohms law. It will also be interesting to see the resistance increase as power dissipation on the connector heats it up. This way you can simply and rather accurately outline the resistance characteristics of each connector. Thinking of it, you might even be able to do the measurement with only the lab supply in constant current mode. Just see how many volts the supply is able to push through the connector at each Amp setting, and multiply the result by two, because the connector actually has two ends. The resistance of the connector would obviously be R = U * I . So for instance if Voltage at 1 Amp was 0.1V the resistance of the connector would be 0.1 Ohms.
The GNB 27 connector sits in between this one and the XT-30. The BT weight 0.6g, the GNB is slightly better and weights 0.8g and the XT30 is a lot better for 1.6g
Great Video! My experience is that the PH2.0 connectors wear out quickly also. Could you test that with both PH2.0 and BT2.0? Measure voltage drop after 25, 50, 100 insertions? I think this might be very compelling.
Why the heck is there still doubt? I build my first brushed whoop about 18 months ago with JST connector batteries… and instantly after launch the voltage sags down to 3.4V on hover. Then I decided to go for a XT30 on the same battery and quad. And after launch the voltage settled at 3.9V on hover… The flight time was doubled after the connector upgrade... And I will do the same on my Mobula7 now. BT2.0 is still too rare and on 2S I will go for XT30 connector batteries from GNB now.
How about the extra weight of the XT30 and the thicker wire? I also have a Mobula7 that gets lousy flight times on 1s stock batteries. My new batteries instantly sag to 3.9v and I am lucky to get 1:45 flight times of easy flying. I just got some 450mah 1s batteries delivered and expect some extra flight time but still wondering if I should convert to XT30 or BT2.0 also.
@@fprintf my mobula7 runs on 2S and I just got it from a friend a few weeks ago. I use it with 2 single 1S 260mAh Lipos in series. It gives me a flight time of maximum 3min and not even 2min if I rip around in acro. I land if it hovers at 3V only and then the batteries settle back to 3.8V per cell. This is ridicolous. the more power and more flight time the XT30 will give, will pretty sure compensate for the 2-3g of extra weight.
What about the Tinihawk S with 1s and 2s? What would you do if you replace the drone connector with the XT30 (which is fine for many 2S) but all the 1S batteries are PH2.0?
@@EduardoRimoli I don't use any 1S cells anymore. They are good for little hover toys but not for a whoop that is capable of freestyle maneuvers. If I wanna fly them indoors and they are too fast then I use the betaflight throttle scale and set it to 60 or 70%.
Great work! I am now curious to see the same test with gnb27 and xt30 connectors. It would be nice to see also a measure of resistence. thank you for your effort!
Just read the datasheets of the JST PH connector. Look at resistance vs. mating cycles. That is the problem that BT2.0 tries to tackle. Mystery solved (wouldn't make a compelling video though). Seriously guys, I wish the RC community was less about hear say. It's all thoroughly characterized. Just look at the data the manufacturer provides after something like a quadzillion of tests. It's all out there. And yes brand new PH2.0 connectors with intact plating (10mOhm per JST), even used out of spec as we do, perform not noticeably worse. So inb4 someone mentions that :P
I use solid pins with 18awg wire on the quad and I doubt that it’s much less than bt2.0. Never get voltage alarms until the battery is dead after doing that.
Would havbe been super interesting to see how an XT30 performs in comparison. Is the BT2 connector maybe still not enough? I used to run XT30 on all my tiny whoops before the BT2 came along and it was great. I am sure I was not the only one :-) So if you can manage it that would be great
@@mishrasubhransu I'm not sure how comparable those ratings are, you never know how they decide such things. FYI 2mm ph connectors are rated at 2A according to the datasheets from JST. I strongly suspect the bt2.0 wouldn't be rated at 10A if it was held to the same standard, probably more like 5A.
Absolutely agree fabian, I'm interested to see if the bt2.0 is still hindering performance in any way at standard whoop current draw or if an xt30 would give a significant advantage.
@@BobSmith-jj2pu I reckon at that point you'd have to start taking into account the weight somehow. With the higher power brushless builds it might be worth it but if you have to add another 5% more weight then maybe not.
This is the test I suggested to Albert Kim a month ago, i.e. Test actual same pack with both connectors, and that was after he commented that brand new cells from same set can vary. really nice to see it done JB, well done, +1 for scientific whooping!
I know this is old, but thank you for doing this test the right way. That you came up with this test method furthers my trust in your reviews. It's not often that youtubers are technically capable and not just good salespeople. I'd also add that the BT2.0 connector is more robust from a number of plug cycles. That combined with the lower power loss really makes the case for getting rid of PH2.0 whenever possible.
Josh, great point when you realized the number of variables needed to be minimized. But, you didn't go far enough. The only thing that matters with these connectors is the resistance. This is complicated by the heating of the connectors and the increase in resistance as the connector gets hotter. And, to only make this problem more difficult, the connectors inside the wire are so small that their best method of dissipating heat is through the connecting wires. One way to eliminate the quality of the cells as a variable is to simply flow increasing amounts of current through each connector while measuring voltage drop across the connector. It should become very apparent from the voltage drop which connector is best. Also, the inferior connector would also get warmer, so measuring the temperature change would also be worthwhile.
I knew the performance with the bt2.0 connector was better,but it's great to see scientific proof.thanks Joshua,great job.since the meteor 65 and betafpv batteries i purchased came with the bt2.0 connectors,i couldn't compare them with ph2.0 batteries.so,i switched out the ph2.0 connector on my us65 with upgraded 0703 motors with the bt2.0 connector.the difference was nothing less than amazing.i got loads more power and 30 seconds more run time with the 300mah betafpv bt2.0 battery compared to the 300mah gnb ph2.0 batteries. all the betafpv battery haters out there need to know that the new cells are of a much higher quality than the older ones.i know this because i purchased some new 350mah gnb batteries and swithed the connectors over to bt2.0's and only got about 10 seconds more flight time compared to the 300mah betafpv cells in my us65. the gnb's are 1/2gram heavier,but they should have done better than that,right?i obviosly can't comment on the longevity of the new betafpv batteries,we'll just have to wait and see.
Exactly what I expected, I was one of the first in Germany who used Mosfets (including brake) and High Amp connectors for Airsofts (long long time ago). I have a resistance (Ohm) Wheatstone bridge which can precisely measure down to less than 0.1 Ohms and my test results showed the large Ohm difference between different connector types. If you combine this with the knowledge of Ohm`s law, it is obvious that connectors have a clear impact on performance. However just using even more bigger connectors, brings up a weight disadvantage at some point (relatively to the quad weight) which kills the Ohm advantage of the better connector. Thanks Joshua for that test!
The connector is important, Trashcan and nano tech 1s 300mah battery 3min flight with 0.8mm Gold Connectors with P.H 2.0 30 sec same battery. With brushed whoops the same situation is much more power and longer flight.
Thanks for the video JB! Was the pH 2.0 connector solid or rolled? Maybe you could include super close up detailed pictures of the connector you used for us? The reason this is important is because if you use the rolled connector that would increase the apparent benefits of the BT 2.0 connector. Maybe the solid pin connector that really isn't a big difference? Gotta know/ test for the scientists!
I have the BT2's. They are solid, gold plated with pins and sockets of higher quality. The BT2's have much more surface area connecting them compared to PH2.
@@cccagley5276 Thanks, I also have the BT 2.0 connectors. I was specifically asking JB about the pH 2.0 connectors he used in his testing. I don't believe he specifies if he is using solid or rolled pins in his video.
I agree. After testing, i found the bigger the battery, the more obvious the difference. This connector will unlock performance on 1S 450mAh and more. On 300mAh, the advantage is still here, but very small.
I remember hearing decades ago when nicads were THE battery type for RC cars that some racers would solder their batteries to the car's power input to gain the best amparage possible, this was back when Tamiya connectors were the standard.
One easy way to test these connectors would be to just run 5 A current through them and then measure the static voltage drop across the connector. Any voltage measured across the connector is away from the motors and used to heat up the connector. Also worth keeping in mind that any measured voltage drop on the connector is most likely happening on both of the leads, positive and negative, so it needs to be summed up together to get the whole effect. One comment about the battery voltage measurement, if two measurements are performed really closely, the battery will get exhausted and provide worse results on the second run. The "imaginary" internal battery resistance (it's not pure resistance) goes up (at least on Li-ion) when current is pushed or pulled from the battery. Preferably, there should be many hours between the measurements (24h?) to provide comparable results. By measuring the voltage drop across the connector, we don't need to worry about the current state of the battery cell and any load history it has been subjected to recently. Though, just looking the 20A result tells us that the BT2.0 is of much lower resistance connector than the PH2.0.
Can agree with conclusion about BT2.0. In my Mobula 7 recently changed pigtail and batteries to ones with BT2.0 connectors. in result when flying is same manner as usual got final battery voltage around 3.3-3.4V which is Ok for discharged LiPo battery. When I fly in same manner during same time with batteries having PH2.0 connector, on end battery voltage was 2.7-3.0V which already damage LiPo batteries. Seems new batteries will live longer too thanks to BT2.0 connector.
Xt30 is where its at for me. I was running the red jst 2 pin connectors and had good results initially on my inductrix. However soon flight times started falling off from 3 to 4 minutes down to 2, 2.5 minutes. Changed the connector with a new red jst and same thing, good flight times and eventually less. I switched to xt30 and its so much better. Consistantly getting 3.5 to 4 plus minute flights. The performance is better too. The battery doesnt sag as bad after takeoff and even has a little better power for recovery. All in all made my inductrix way better!
Would be great to see this emerge as a standard. I think this would shine even more on 1s/2s compatible whoops/toothpick that combine two 1s batteries for 2s.
you are right,everybody with a double 1s whoop or micro would definitely benefit from a bt2.0 upgrade,as would anything now using a ph2.0 connector.bt2.0 connectors should become the new standard. the bt2.0 mod i made to a 65mm brushless whoop proves to me that this connector is superior to the ph2.0.
Hey JB, Have you managed to come up with a good way to storage charge/discharge 1s whoop type batteries? You commented in a video months ago that you were working on it, and I was hoping there's news. Thanks
Just make adapters from PH2 (or BT2) to XT30 and most good chargers like ISDT allow 1S discharge with no balancing (of course). I do that all the time and works great.
@@Vousie Except when you can't fly a quad on them due to weather, schedule etc. When you charge up a bunch of them then plans change. Not good to let them sit for days and days fully charged.
Great test, thank you that someone finally digs out the crap. But you always run the ph2 first and then the bt 2. But there is a BIG problem with it. Whenever you charge your battery the first two to three time after bying or having them in storage the performance is coceivably weaker, the chemistry has to wake up, you can really feel that if you start to fly whoops in winter on your flight times which go up while speed goes up as well. Why don't you just test the connector resistance and the voltage drop with a lab bench power supply and eliminate the wonky factor (battary).
Awesome testing, Joshua! Thanks a lot!!! 😃 The only thing is that, unfortunately, there's no BT 2.0 connectors available from Banggood, so... No way for me to buy them yet. 😕
Just bought some GNB 720 mah 100c batteries for my BetaFpv Cetus Pro and a 5 pack of BT2.0 connectors to get rid of the stock PH2.0 connectors on the batteries because even on new mode on slow speed when I'm flying around my house I only get about 1 minute 42 seconds on a freshly charged battery. Sport mode on mid speed gets about 54 seconds of flight time. I've tested the stock batteries and they show no fault in discharge or capacity shortage, so I'm confused as to why I'm getting such short flight times without pushing the Cetus or its stock BetaFpv batteries. I had to upgrade if I actually wanted to fly it.
Hi.. i was testing this when considering to upgrade my batteries to xt30.. the result was that you have to conseider the wire too. So i dropped the wire on the battery and soldered the xt 30 dirrectly to the cell. This sawed some weight and i gained some power by removing the unnecessary resistance. The xt30 is too heavy for the weight and if there was a connector like bt2 i would have used it. Thanx for an informative video..
Thanks for posting this and testing in your usual thorough manner.Common sense will tell you a bigger hose will flow more water.Do you feel the XT30 becomes a weight penalty?I'm not a racer so it makes little difference to me,but to a whoop racer everything counts.
I'm told Kabab is going over to XT30. I'm going to guess he's probably got a good reason. The biggest disadvantage to me is that it's hard to fit an XT30 onto the smaller 1S packs.
Cool comparison! Great job. By the way one of the worst problem of ph 2.0 is the durability. After flies and crashes the performance dicrese a lot, bt2 is better in durability and stable in time?
Did you ever test without connectors for a baseline? I would have loved to see a test with the battery directly soldered to the tester for more of a baseline of what the battery can do, and if a better connector than the BT2.0 could be created.
Looking at your results an all the comments, it seems PH2.0 is great for brushed tiny whoops that don't use that much power, but they just can't handle the kind of power that brushless quads use.
My understanding is that after a few matings the PH connectors would perform poorly. I have batteries that no longer worked well for my whoop after a few uses. I would be interested in seeing how those batteries performed when the connections where changed. Would it bring new life to the batteries.
Yes, it will bring new life to the batteries. I have few old batteries on which I already changed PH connectors several times. They would be long time in the trash if I did not do this. PH 2.0 degrade much quicker then cells if used correctly.
I've found it difficult to make internal resistance measurements on my batteries with PH 2.0 connectors. If I get a strange value I simply reconnect and test again. Point contact resistance was something I didn't think much about until now. The banana plugs on cheap battery chargers are also another source of point contact resistance that should not be ignored.
Using bt2 now on my 65mmwhoop, 0802 17500kV and notice up to 20sec more flight time up to 3:40 on 1s250mAh on original UK65 batteries but only 3:05 min on new GNB260... (Not charging to HV). It's an additional item to increase efficiency in the total drive train. I believe the next goal is not performance but flight times in tiny Whoops heading to 5minutes. I'm wondering if charging HV but discharge at low performance/duration might reduce cycles as well?
@@M.TTT. I'd always thought HV wasn't worth living thus never charged them HV. Packs are luke warm like to keep them this way. Hard to find info for brushless-duration. HIgh speed whoops are tough to google too!
ty! for more tests on these connectors :) super promising innovation for the lil whoops, seems like a great middle ground for those that dont want the xt30 weight too
Would be nice to see the graph for a more normal amp pull instead of the extremes of 1C and 44C how about that 2-5 amps you say should be average to upper limit? To see what our performance advantage would be.
I actually switched over all my GNB 520 HV's to the BT2.0 connectors yesterday for my Tinyhawk S. Purchased the JESC licence, flashed Emuflight and threw in the PMB Diff Dump and she flies like a champ. Getting 5 minute flight times easily. Can you make a video about setting up BF4.1 RPM using the PMB tune JB for the Tinyhawk S?
TRITON FPV don’t buy jesc anymore. There free version of it out now, I don’t like how he took someone else’s code, edited a little bit and now charging $5 a license lol Other ppl felt same and made it free for everyone
I changed all my batteries . On my brushed whoops i did not see an advantage . On the 450 cells and brushless whoops i got longer times and higher voltages throughout the flight . I jumped right into them as soon as i saw them . On my 600 mah batteries i saw about 50 seconds longer flight times .
I think I will update my mobula6 HD to bt 2.0. I already have a bunch of 300mah betafpv bt2.0 batteries that I got when I bought the Cetus. (Not a fan of it)
But could they be even better? I'd try soldering directly to the test equipment as well, obviously you won't be soldering batteries directly to your whoop but that would give the best indication of actual capacity as well as how much if any room for improvement is left
maybe im wishful thinking, but im holding out buying another whoop/micro until they get HD. The sub250 channel hacked an airunit to fit in a 4inch toothpick. I think its gonna happen sooner then we think.
@@JoshuaBardwell cool. I emailed you about gravy and a meteor65. Lol. I hadn't heard anything back so, I started wondering if there was a better to ask questions. But, I figured out the answer I need from the email I sent you. Once you clean all the gravy off the motors, you have to make sure your props are on in the proper order. My Meteor65 is back from the grave-y-yard. Haha.
Not arguing with your overall results. The BT2.0 connector has larger pins so it’s most likely better. However I see a small problem with your scientific method. You solder the BT2.0 connector first. Then your cut the wire then solder the PH2.0 connector. Each time the battery is heated by soldering it’s damaged a little bit. So the PH2.0 connector will have a slightly more damaged cell to work with. I think a better method for future testing would be use a connector that is known to be overkill. Like xt30. Solder that to the battery. Then create two adapters from xt30 to the smaller plugs. That way both connectors in question are working with a cell with the same amount of thermal damage.
Did you test with solid pin connectors? I have been using jst xh for a while now and get better flight time with 260 xh combo over the beta 300 bt2.0 on a the metoer 22000kv motors.
would it be wise to swap out the PH2.0 connectors with BT2.0 on whoops etc that use 2 1S cells to achieve 2S? I feel like this would be a great jump up without having to switch over to XT30 2S packs
I love your videos keep it up and I wish I could be one of your patrons but I can barely afford to buy a tinywhoop I want a 5 in but I can’t afford it you deserve to have more supporters also can you review the meteor 65 acro/19500kv
If you cut off all the old connectors and soldered new ones, aren't all the cables shorter for the new connectors, and how much shorter? Since there are no pictures. Does that influence the results? I'm asking because I wanna know. Maybe do a new test where you cut off the new connector again, and then resolder the old connector with shorter cables, to see if you would get the same results.
My woop has a ph2 connector and voltage will be at 4.25v and when I take off battery voltage droppes straight down to 2.9v and there’s a huge lack of power no matter what batt I put on it, would this new betta Fpv connector fix my problem??? Ps running 0603 19000kv If anyone knows pls help Thanks Ethan
My Inductrix would drop to the ground due to the voltage sag on stock connector (maybe was more sensitive than normal) a in first 5 sec. Thought it was junk but I saw a video showing a mod to the next higher size connector ph2.0 now I get 2min plus flights. Looking at BT2.0 connectors it looks like they would be better currant carriers but would they be lot better or just overkill? Plus hacking back into my quad be asking for trouble. wow $1.60/pair
i'm assuming the tests were with a healthy socket, it gets worse very quickly as the sockets age, a good percentage of those little sockets melt and get worse and worse, did you get any ways to test the jesc thing?, people saying its a big boost in flight time from the rpm filters mod for non 32bit esc's,
The question is whether or not XT60's limit bigger quads. There are XT90's out there; however, atleast for 5 inch quads, I think XT60's are fine. Just my two cents. Happy flying!
@@JoshuaBardwell Would you please do a similar quick test on something like a 6S 1300mah pack with XT-60 vs. XT-90? I think that maybe there may not be much difference for 5". But if there is a change in discharge capability it could have a big impact on 6"-7" quads.
I am using a ph2.0 connector on my mobula6, and literally touching the connector while plugged in alters the voltage reading on the OSD by almost half a volt. This is the same with multiple batteries on a mobula that's been through maybe 150 packs. Do you reckon swapping over to bt2.0 will solve this? I imagine the ph2.0 has worn over time..
Follow up: YES. Do this. Getting almost mins flight time and minimal sag. NO wonkyness. Perfect. Very pleased with bt2.0 and I feel like this kind of connector is going to hold up over time
What I see in your graphs is more mah in bt2.0 connectors vs ph2.0, (the red has less area under it then the the blue), given the same batteries were used where did the mah go to in the red lines? Did you randomize batteries in the order tested with the two connectors, assuming you used the exact same batteries for both. Or did you not use same batts, I assumed you did I think in the beginning you were saying not all batteries in a batch are going to test the same given same specs same brand. Also how many batteries were used, total? Just curious.
@@JoshuaBardwell Doesn't matter, Is there lost energy burned up in the form of heat (resistance) at connector or is there still energy still in battery with ph connector?
Hey Joshua! A suggestion to test the performance of both connectors completely independent of the cells connected: Hook up each the connectors between a dummy load and a lab power supply. hook your most sensitive multimeter to measure the voltage drop on one side of the connector (let's pick the ground side of the connector and multiply the result by two, or measure both high and low side). Now set the lab supply to 4V do a series of measurements of the voltage drop at the connector itself at different amps of load so you can actually accurately calculate the resistance of the connector using ohms law. It will also be interesting to see the resistance increase as power dissipation on the connector heats it up. This way you can simply and rather accurately outline the resistance characteristics of each connector.
Thinking of it, you might even be able to do the measurement with only the lab supply in constant current mode. Just see how many volts the supply is able to push through the connector at each Amp setting, and multiply the result by two, because the connector actually has two ends. The resistance of the connector would obviously be R = U * I . So for instance if Voltage at 1 Amp was 0.1V the resistance of the connector would be 0.1 Ohms.
+1, very underrated comment
Great test! It would've also been interesting to see those same batteries tested without any connectors as a control for the cells.
We need a XT-10 or XT-15 connector!
Agree.
this is essentially that.. the connection is the same as on xt connectors
The GNB 27 connector sits in between this one and the XT-30.
The BT weight 0.6g, the GNB is slightly better and weights 0.8g and the XT30 is a lot better for 1.6g
Yes! Could not agree harder! I think I just cracked my phone screen trying to high-five your comment.
Just gonna leave a comment for the youtube algoritm, keep up the good work
And im ganna reply for the same reason
This guys not only got the word of mouth, he’s got the technical research and experimentation to back up his words! Super valuable content, great work
Great Video! My experience is that the PH2.0 connectors wear out quickly also. Could you test that with both PH2.0 and BT2.0? Measure voltage drop after 25, 50, 100 insertions? I think this might be very compelling.
I upgraded my 1s build to the BT and it was a fairly obvious improvement on voltage sag in-flight. So I was sold immediately.
Why the heck is there still doubt? I build my first brushed whoop about 18 months ago with JST connector batteries… and instantly after launch the voltage sags down to 3.4V on hover. Then I decided to go for a XT30 on the same battery and quad. And after launch the voltage settled at 3.9V on hover… The flight time was doubled after the connector upgrade... And I will do the same on my Mobula7 now. BT2.0 is still too rare and on 2S I will go for XT30 connector batteries from GNB now.
How about the extra weight of the XT30 and the thicker wire? I also have a Mobula7 that gets lousy flight times on 1s stock batteries. My new batteries instantly sag to 3.9v and I am lucky to get 1:45 flight times of easy flying. I just got some 450mah 1s batteries delivered and expect some extra flight time but still wondering if I should convert to XT30 or BT2.0 also.
@@fprintf my mobula7 runs on 2S and I just got it from a friend a few weeks ago. I use it with 2 single 1S 260mAh Lipos in series. It gives me a flight time of maximum 3min and not even 2min if I rip around in acro. I land if it hovers at 3V only and then the batteries settle back to 3.8V per cell. This is ridicolous. the more power and more flight time the XT30 will give, will pretty sure compensate for the 2-3g of extra weight.
@@fprintf 48khz
What about the Tinihawk S with 1s and 2s? What would you do if you replace the drone connector with the XT30 (which is fine for many 2S) but all the 1S batteries are PH2.0?
@@EduardoRimoli I don't use any 1S cells anymore. They are good for little hover toys but not for a whoop that is capable of freestyle maneuvers. If I wanna fly them indoors and they are too fast then I use the betaflight throttle scale and set it to 60 or 70%.
Great work! I am now curious to see the same test with gnb27 and xt30 connectors. It would be nice to see also a measure of resistence. thank you for your effort!
Just read the datasheets of the JST PH connector. Look at resistance vs. mating cycles. That is the problem that BT2.0 tries to tackle. Mystery solved (wouldn't make a compelling video though). Seriously guys, I wish the RC community was less about hear say. It's all thoroughly characterized. Just look at the data the manufacturer provides after something like a quadzillion of tests. It's all out there. And yes brand new PH2.0 connectors with intact plating (10mOhm per JST), even used out of spec as we do, perform not noticeably worse. So inb4 someone mentions that :P
What about a solid pin ph2.0 from digikey?
I agreed the folded pin connectors suck, but solid pin ones have given me similar positive results
I wonder if these folded pins could be soldered into something more solid.
@@CatEatsDogs people have been filling the folds with solder and that alone has drastically incrased the performance
That's exactly what I mean! I'll try
I use solid pins with 18awg wire on the quad and I doubt that it’s much less than bt2.0. Never get voltage alarms until the battery is dead after doing that.
@@CatEatsDogs huh? people have been flowing solder into folded connectors for years.
was folded, now solid.
Would havbe been super interesting to see how an XT30 performs in comparison. Is the BT2 connector maybe still not enough? I used to run XT30 on all my tiny whoops before the BT2 came along and it was great. I am sure I was not the only one :-) So if you can manage it that would be great
XT30 is rated for 30A and BT2.0 for 10 Amps and PH2.0 for 5Amps
@@mishrasubhransu I'm not sure how comparable those ratings are, you never know how they decide such things. FYI 2mm ph connectors are rated at 2A according to the datasheets from JST. I strongly suspect the bt2.0 wouldn't be rated at 10A if it was held to the same standard, probably more like 5A.
Absolutely agree fabian,
I'm interested to see if the bt2.0 is still hindering performance in any way at standard whoop current draw or if an xt30 would give a significant advantage.
@@BobSmith-jj2pu I reckon at that point you'd have to start taking into account the weight somehow. With the higher power brushless builds it might be worth it but if you have to add another 5% more weight then maybe not.
Fabian Isensee the xt30 is still king but weighs more and you gotta realize its alot more metal in those.
I put them on my brushed beebrain lite and it for sure had more power and about :30-40 sec more flight time.
Good work, would like to see it in increments of 5, 5, 10,15 and 20A discharge to see more accurate result
This is the test I suggested to Albert Kim a month ago, i.e. Test actual same pack with both connectors, and that was after he commented that brand new cells from same set can vary. really nice to see it done JB, well done, +1 for scientific whooping!
I find even PH2.0 connectors wear out pretty quick. Looking forward to trying the BT connector for my tiny whoops.
I know this is old, but thank you for doing this test the right way. That you came up with this test method furthers my trust in your reviews. It's not often that youtubers are technically capable and not just good salespeople.
I'd also add that the BT2.0 connector is more robust from a number of plug cycles. That combined with the lower power loss really makes the case for getting rid of PH2.0 whenever possible.
Thank you, you have sold this to me time to convert all my battery's as racing & PH 2.0 is killing the fun with power dropouts as the pins heat up.
I would prefer PT3.0 ( so 3pin) so o can use it to connect my motors to esc's
That was actually more interesting than I thought it was going to be.
Yay for JB demonstrating what I have been telling people all the time. The voltage drop is the key issue here.
Josh, great point when you realized the number of variables needed to be minimized. But, you didn't go far enough. The only thing that matters with these connectors is the resistance. This is complicated by the heating of the connectors and the increase in resistance as the connector gets hotter. And, to only make this problem more difficult, the connectors inside the wire are so small that their best method of dissipating heat is through the connecting wires.
One way to eliminate the quality of the cells as a variable is to simply flow increasing amounts of current through each connector while measuring voltage drop across the connector. It should become very apparent from the voltage drop which connector is best. Also, the inferior connector would also get warmer, so measuring the temperature change would also be worthwhile.
I knew the performance with the bt2.0 connector was better,but it's great to see scientific proof.thanks Joshua,great job.since the meteor 65 and betafpv batteries i purchased came with the bt2.0 connectors,i couldn't compare them with ph2.0 batteries.so,i switched out the ph2.0 connector on my us65 with upgraded 0703 motors with the bt2.0 connector.the difference was nothing less than amazing.i got loads more power and 30 seconds more run time with the 300mah betafpv bt2.0 battery compared to the 300mah gnb ph2.0 batteries. all the betafpv battery haters out there need to know that the new cells are of a much higher quality than the older ones.i know this because i purchased some new 350mah gnb batteries and swithed the connectors over to bt2.0's and only got about 10 seconds more flight time compared to the 300mah betafpv cells in my us65. the gnb's are 1/2gram heavier,but they should have done better than that,right?i obviosly can't comment on the longevity of the new betafpv batteries,we'll just have to wait and see.
Exactly what I expected, I was one of the first in Germany who used Mosfets (including brake) and High Amp connectors for Airsofts (long long time ago). I have a resistance (Ohm) Wheatstone bridge which can precisely measure down to less than 0.1 Ohms and my test results showed the large Ohm difference between different connector types. If you combine this with the knowledge of Ohm`s law, it is obvious that connectors have a clear impact on performance. However just using even more bigger connectors, brings up a weight disadvantage at some point (relatively to the quad weight) which kills the Ohm advantage of the better connector. Thanks Joshua for that test!
The connector is important, Trashcan and nano tech 1s 300mah battery 3min flight with 0.8mm Gold Connectors with P.H 2.0 30 sec same battery. With brushed whoops the same situation is much more power and longer flight.
Thanks for the video JB! Was the pH 2.0 connector solid or rolled? Maybe you could include super close up detailed pictures of the connector you used for us?
The reason this is important is because if you use the rolled connector that would increase the apparent benefits of the BT 2.0 connector. Maybe the solid pin connector that really isn't a big difference? Gotta know/ test for the scientists!
I have the BT2's. They are solid, gold plated with pins and sockets of higher quality. The BT2's have much more surface area connecting them compared to PH2.
@@cccagley5276 Thanks, I also have the BT 2.0 connectors. I was specifically asking JB about the pH 2.0 connectors he used in his testing. I don't believe he specifies if he is using solid or rolled pins in his video.
How about compare it to NO connector? Solder the battery directly to the wires without connectors and see what optimal is like in comparison.
I agree. After testing, i found the bigger the battery, the more obvious the difference. This connector will unlock performance on 1S 450mAh and more.
On 300mAh, the advantage is still here, but very small.
I remember hearing decades ago when nicads were THE battery type for RC cars that some racers would solder their batteries to the car's power input to gain the best amparage possible, this was back when Tamiya connectors were the standard.
I totally did that back in the days of racing my Rc10 trucks n buggies (early 90’s)
Good times. 😎🎮🤙🏻stay up
One easy way to test these connectors would be to just run 5 A current through them and then measure the static voltage drop across the connector. Any voltage measured across the connector is away from the motors and used to heat up the connector. Also worth keeping in mind that any measured voltage drop on the connector is most likely happening on both of the leads, positive and negative, so it needs to be summed up together to get the whole effect.
One comment about the battery voltage measurement, if two measurements are performed really closely, the battery will get exhausted and provide worse results on the second run. The "imaginary" internal battery resistance (it's not pure resistance) goes up (at least on Li-ion) when current is pushed or pulled from the battery. Preferably, there should be many hours between the measurements (24h?) to provide comparable results.
By measuring the voltage drop across the connector, we don't need to worry about the current state of the battery cell and any load history it has been subjected to recently.
Though, just looking the 20A result tells us that the BT2.0 is of much lower resistance connector than the PH2.0.
Can agree with conclusion about BT2.0. In my Mobula 7 recently changed pigtail and batteries to ones with BT2.0 connectors. in result when flying is same manner as usual got final battery voltage around 3.3-3.4V which is Ok for discharged LiPo battery. When I fly in same manner during same time with batteries having PH2.0 connector, on end battery voltage was 2.7-3.0V which already damage LiPo batteries. Seems new batteries will live longer too thanks to BT2.0 connector.
Xt30 is where its at for me. I was running the red jst 2 pin connectors and had good results initially on my inductrix. However soon flight times started falling off from 3 to 4 minutes down to 2, 2.5 minutes. Changed the connector with a new red jst and same thing, good flight times and eventually less. I switched to xt30 and its so much better. Consistantly getting 3.5 to 4 plus minute flights. The performance is better too. The battery doesnt sag as bad after takeoff and even has a little better power for recovery. All in all made my inductrix way better!
Great video! One minor correction though... At 20000Kv, 0.1 volts correspond to 2000rpm, not 200rpm :)
Thanks for this video I was going to do this test myself Because I was 99% sure that this would be the outcome thank you for all you do.
Would be great to see this emerge as a standard. I think this would shine even more on 1s/2s compatible whoops/toothpick that combine two 1s batteries for 2s.
you are right,everybody with a double 1s whoop or micro would definitely benefit from a bt2.0 upgrade,as would anything now using a ph2.0 connector.bt2.0 connectors should become the new standard. the bt2.0 mod i made to a 65mm brushless whoop proves to me that this connector is superior to the ph2.0.
Hey JB,
Have you managed to come up with a good way to storage charge/discharge 1s whoop type batteries? You commented in a video months ago that you were working on it, and I was hoping there's news.
Thanks
Just make adapters from PH2 (or BT2) to XT30 and most good chargers like ISDT allow 1S discharge with no balancing (of course). I do that all the time and works great.
@@Clif_Brown I have a wonderful way to discharge batteries: Fly a quad on them 😉
@@Vousie Except when you can't fly a quad on them due to weather, schedule etc. When you charge up a bunch of them then plans change. Not good to let them sit for days and days fully charged.
@@Clif_Brown The point of whoops is you can fly them indoors
To discharge, I started to use the uruav battery killer. Just google it. It works from 1s to 6s, down to 3.0V, and for XT60 connectors to 0V.
I bet the original tinyhawk could benefit from this connector. Gonna be testing that theory as soon as my package from betafpv arrives 👍👍
thanks à lot, and what about the new gnb27 ?
Nice job. As an EE, I can say you did it right.
Great test, thank you that someone finally digs out the crap. But you always run the ph2 first and then the bt 2. But there is a BIG problem with it. Whenever you charge your battery the first two to three time after bying or having them in storage the performance is coceivably weaker, the chemistry has to wake up, you can really feel that if you start to fly whoops in winter on your flight times which go up while speed goes up as well.
Why don't you just test the connector resistance and the voltage drop with a lab bench power supply and eliminate the wonky factor (battary).
Awesome testing, Joshua! Thanks a lot!!! 😃
The only thing is that, unfortunately, there's no BT 2.0 connectors available from Banggood, so... No way for me to buy them yet. 😕
Just bought some GNB 720 mah 100c batteries for my BetaFpv Cetus Pro and a 5 pack of BT2.0 connectors to get rid of the stock PH2.0 connectors on the batteries because even on new mode on slow speed when I'm flying around my house I only get about 1 minute 42 seconds on a freshly charged battery. Sport mode on mid speed gets about 54 seconds of flight time. I've tested the stock batteries and they show no fault in discharge or capacity shortage, so I'm confused as to why I'm getting such short flight times without pushing the Cetus or its stock BetaFpv batteries. I had to upgrade if I actually wanted to fly it.
Please try a solid pin ph2.0 with 18awg wire. I’ve noticed significant benefits and then I can use the same batteries and charger connectors.
Can you compare the xt30? I suppose is the same result and it might be just heavier
Hi.. i was testing this when considering to upgrade my batteries to xt30.. the result was that you have to conseider the wire too. So i dropped the wire on the battery and soldered the xt 30 dirrectly to the cell. This sawed some weight and i gained some power by removing the unnecessary resistance. The xt30 is too heavy for the weight and if there was a connector like bt2 i would have used it. Thanx for an informative video..
Thanks for posting this and testing in your usual thorough manner.Common sense will tell you a bigger hose will flow more water.Do you feel the XT30 becomes a weight penalty?I'm not a racer so it makes little difference to me,but to a whoop racer everything counts.
I'm told Kabab is going over to XT30. I'm going to guess he's probably got a good reason. The biggest disadvantage to me is that it's hard to fit an XT30 onto the smaller 1S packs.
@@JoshuaBardwell Thanks for the quick answer,I usually get the packs with leads,so a little more doable.
Cool comparison! Great job. By the way one of the worst problem of ph 2.0 is the durability. After flies and crashes the performance dicrese a lot, bt2 is better in durability and stable in time?
Only time will tell for sure, but based on the design, it seems like it must be.
BT2.0 makes my UR65 brilliant. Tinywhoop 333 batteries!
Did you ever test without connectors for a baseline? I would have loved to see a test with the battery directly soldered to the tester for more of a baseline of what the battery can do, and if a better connector than the BT2.0 could be created.
Looking at your results an all the comments, it seems PH2.0 is great for brushed tiny whoops that don't use that much power, but they just can't handle the kind of power that brushless quads use.
My understanding is that after a few matings the PH connectors would perform poorly. I have batteries that no longer worked well for my whoop after a few uses. I would be interested in seeing how those batteries performed when the connections where changed. Would it bring new life to the batteries.
Yes, it will bring new life to the batteries. I have few old batteries on which I already changed PH connectors several times. They would be long time in the trash if I did not do this. PH 2.0 degrade much quicker then cells if used correctly.
@@cheburator2000 thanks for letting me know
Can confirm, bt2.0 2s tinyhawk s flies like a ballistic missile now. RPM filtering further helped.
I've found it difficult to make internal resistance measurements on my batteries with PH 2.0 connectors. If I get a strange value I simply reconnect and test again. Point contact resistance was something I didn't think much about until now. The banana plugs on cheap battery chargers are also another source of point contact resistance that should not be ignored.
Using bt2 now on my 65mmwhoop, 0802 17500kV and notice up to 20sec more flight time up to 3:40 on 1s250mAh on original UK65 batteries but only 3:05 min on new GNB260... (Not charging to HV).
It's an additional item to increase efficiency in the total drive train.
I believe the next goal is not performance but flight times in tiny Whoops heading to 5minutes.
I'm wondering if charging HV but discharge at low performance/duration might reduce cycles as well?
yea 5 min tiny whoop will come next and the latter, yeah that will use up batteries faster
@@M.TTT.
I'd always thought HV wasn't worth living thus never charged them HV. Packs are luke warm like to keep them this way.
Hard to find info for brushless-duration. HIgh speed whoops are tough to google too!
@@electrobob1 same here, until I saw Kababs video about HV!
ty! for more tests on these connectors :) super promising innovation for the lil whoops, seems like a great middle ground for those that dont want the xt30 weight too
Would be nice to see the graph for a more normal amp pull instead of the extremes of 1C and 44C how about that 2-5 amps you say should be average to upper limit? To see what our performance advantage would be.
How much to they weigh vs xt-30? For gram pinchers, is it worth stepping down to BT2.0 from xt-30?
What do you think about bt2.0 On 2s?
Hi Will this work with a blade inductrix and can I use a 3.8v thanks
Now i wonder if direct soldering the batteries instead of using plugs at all is a "better" solution :)
the more ampere you have the more important is the ohm-resitance of the connector. So for powerful Tiny Whoops BT2.0 is clearly the winner...
anyone tried both xt30 and bt2.0? how's the performance?
I actually switched over all my GNB 520 HV's to the BT2.0 connectors yesterday for my Tinyhawk S. Purchased the JESC licence, flashed Emuflight and threw in the PMB Diff Dump and she flies like a champ. Getting 5 minute flight times easily. Can you make a video about setting up BF4.1 RPM using the PMB tune JB for the Tinyhawk S?
TRITON FPV don’t buy jesc anymore.
There free version of it out now, I don’t like how he took someone else’s code, edited a little bit and now charging $5 a license lol
Other ppl felt same and made it free for everyone
I changed all my batteries . On my brushed whoops i did not see an advantage . On the 450 cells and brushless whoops i got longer times and higher voltages throughout the flight . I jumped right into them as soon as i saw them . On my 600 mah batteries i saw about 50 seconds longer flight times .
Joshua is on the track of Ohms Law :D It should not be a surprise that the voltage drop is the same for the same current with whatever cell type ;)
I think I will update my mobula6 HD to bt 2.0. I already have a bunch of 300mah betafpv bt2.0 batteries that I got when I bought the Cetus. (Not a fan of it)
Were those folded pin ph2? Thanks
How do i discharge these things?
What's your thought on a 2x bt2.0 power connector for 2s using 1s?
But could they be even better? I'd try soldering directly to the test equipment as well, obviously you won't be soldering batteries directly to your whoop but that would give the best indication of actual capacity as well as how much if any room for improvement is left
Ph2.0 sold Or crimped ?
maybe im wishful thinking, but im holding out buying another whoop/micro until they get HD. The sub250 channel hacked an airunit to fit in a 4inch toothpick. I think its gonna happen sooner then we think.
Gonna be a few years even if the technology makes it that far.
One dude fit it on a CineBee75 HD, and somehow still flew
Was this done with the specific PH2.0 Solid Pin connectors?
What is the best way to ask short answer questions? Email, Facebook messenger, UA-cam comments?
FB Messenger probably.
@@JoshuaBardwell cool. I emailed you about gravy and a meteor65. Lol. I hadn't heard anything back so, I started wondering if there was a better to ask questions. But, I figured out the answer I need from the email I sent you. Once you clean all the gravy off the motors, you have to make sure your props are on in the proper order. My Meteor65 is back from the grave-y-yard. Haha.
I answered about a half hour ago.
Not arguing with your overall results. The BT2.0 connector has larger pins so it’s most likely better.
However I see a small problem with your scientific method. You solder the BT2.0 connector first. Then your cut the wire then solder the PH2.0 connector. Each time the battery is heated by soldering it’s damaged a little bit. So the PH2.0 connector will have a slightly more damaged cell to work with. I think a better method for future testing would be use a connector that is known to be overkill. Like xt30. Solder that to the battery. Then create two adapters from xt30 to the smaller plugs. That way both connectors in question are working with a cell with the same amount of thermal damage.
and i've spent all this time swapping my stuff over to jst plugs...
I like learning.
Nicely done JB!
Did you test with solid pin connectors?
I have been using jst xh for a while now and get better flight time with 260 xh combo over the beta 300 bt2.0 on a the metoer 22000kv motors.
would it be wise to swap out the PH2.0 connectors with BT2.0 on whoops etc that use 2 1S cells to achieve 2S? I feel like this would be a great jump up without having to switch over to XT30 2S packs
Best tiny whoop batteries that banggood sells??
What should I do with the Tinyhawk S since it runs on 1S (PH2.0) and most aftermarket 2S (XT30)?
I love your videos keep it up and I wish I could be one of your patrons but I can barely afford to buy a tinywhoop I want a 5 in but I can’t afford it you deserve to have more supporters also can you review the meteor 65 acro/19500kv
If you cut off all the old connectors and soldered new ones, aren't all the cables shorter for the new connectors, and how much shorter? Since there are no pictures. Does that influence the results? I'm asking because I wanna know. Maybe do a new test where you cut off the new connector again, and then resolder the old connector with shorter cables, to see if you would get the same results.
The resistance of the cables is negligible at these amps and lengths.
@@JoshuaBardwell Thanks for the answer! It's good to know, I'll trust the results then
My woop has a ph2 connector and voltage will be at 4.25v and when I take off battery voltage droppes straight down to 2.9v and there’s a huge lack of power no matter what batt I put on it, would this new betta Fpv connector fix my problem??? Ps running 0603 19000kv
If anyone knows pls help
Thanks Ethan
Test the JST XH vs P 2.0 you will be surprise. I get around 10% more out of my 1S than P 20
Until you plug it in backwards..... It will plug in backwards btw.
You can plug in XT60 backwards too if you try hard. And most PH2.0 used on whoops.
Great analysis!
How do you attach bt2.0s to my tinywhoop? Do I need to buy an adapter?
Desolder the old pigtail and solder on the new one. Make sure to get + and - correct!
@@JoshuaBardwell cheers!
These will be great on micro helis! 👍
L13 from Edu mate 🤓😁👍, good job as always 💕💕💕
My Inductrix would drop to the ground due to the voltage sag on stock connector (maybe was more sensitive than normal) a in first 5 sec. Thought it was junk but I saw a video showing a mod to the next higher size connector ph2.0 now I get 2min plus flights. Looking at BT2.0 connectors it looks like they would be better currant carriers but would they be lot better or just overkill? Plus hacking back into my quad be asking for trouble. wow $1.60/pair
I have an inductrix too (brushless). I switched over to the red jst connecter and i get 3 to 4 minutes wth 500mah eflites and 600mah crazyponies.
i'm assuming the tests were with a healthy socket, it gets worse very quickly as the sockets age, a good percentage of those little sockets melt and get worse and worse, did you get any ways to test the jesc thing?, people saying its a big boost in flight time from the rpm filters mod for non 32bit esc's,
Anything on the horizon that might replace the XT60 on bigger quads?
The question is whether or not XT60's limit bigger quads. There are XT90's out there; however, atleast for 5 inch quads, I think XT60's are fine.
Just my two cents. Happy flying!
Some pilots are running XT90 instead of XT30 for the same reason, but I suspect for most people it's not worth the trouble.
@@JoshuaBardwell Would you please do a similar quick test on something like a 6S 1300mah pack with XT-60 vs. XT-90? I think that maybe there may not be much difference for 5". But if there is a change in discharge capability it could have a big impact on 6"-7" quads.
great video Joshua! thanks
I am using a ph2.0 connector on my mobula6, and literally touching the connector while plugged in alters the voltage reading on the OSD by almost half a volt.
This is the same with multiple batteries on a mobula that's been through maybe 150 packs.
Do you reckon swapping over to bt2.0 will solve this? I imagine the ph2.0 has worn over time..
Follow up:
YES. Do this. Getting almost mins flight time and minimal sag. NO wonkyness. Perfect. Very pleased with bt2.0 and I feel like this kind of connector is going to hold up over time
@@big-smoke-rc so i just gotta cut out ph20 port from drone and solder bt20 port? and get new bt20 batteries?
Excellent info. Thanks.
Thx for your Testing.
What about the connecting wires? Would a heavier gauge wire produce better results too? With a weight penalty of course.
What I see in your graphs is more mah in bt2.0 connectors vs ph2.0, (the red has less area under it then the the blue), given the same batteries were used where did the mah go to in the red lines? Did you randomize batteries in the order tested with the two connectors, assuming you used the exact same batteries for both. Or did you not use same batts, I assumed you did I think in the beginning you were saying not all batteries in a batch are going to test the same given same specs same brand. Also how many batteries were used, total? Just curious.
This is watt hours not amp hours. Higher voltage results in more Wh.
Exact same batteries were tested.
@@JoshuaBardwell Doesn't matter, Is there lost energy burned up in the form of heat (resistance) at connector or is there still energy still in battery with ph connector?
@@fpvkabo in my experience, both