Caribbean v Mediterranean, which is best for cruising? | Ep123
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- It's the question we've been asked more than any other since crossing the Atlantic last year, Med or Caribbean?
This is a deep dive into it and we've surprised ourselves with the findings so we will be very interested in what you guys think.
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/ sailingfairisle
Well. You’ve hardly seen 1/3 of the Caribbean and then it segues into the big islands from Puerto Rico, the DR/ Haiti, Jamaica and Cuba, the Turks & Caicos and the Bahamas. See them all before you rate it. Besides that, absolutely spot on as usual.
ok
Don't think anyones going to Haiti at the moment!
@@svfairisle The State department recommends that you don't sail close to it either.
Great video, respectfully suggesting you add one category to the list: Personal Safety, perhaps comparing the Eastern Caribbean to the Western Caribbean too.
Yes we may do an update once we’ve explored the Western Caribbean and the Bahamas and we will add security as several people have asked.
Excellently organised, deeply informational and thought provoking episode! Thanks for all your hard work on this one guys really helps those of us who are umming and ahhhing about crossing to ‘the other side’ 😂😂❤👍
Very interesting video, as usual. I'll be curious to see how your assessments change as you explore the Caribbean. I don't expect I'll ever go sailing, so it's weird to me how fascinating I find this. But I will say that it was your videos that made me put "Illyria" on my bucket list. Who knows? One day -?
Great video! The French islands (Martinique and Guadeloupe) have some great dining options, and good prices on French cheese and wines (almost worth going just for the food and provisioning). The customs and immigration procedures are the easiest in the Caribbean too, as most bays have a customs computer in a shop ashore where you enter your info yourself and the store clerk prints and stamps it for a few Euros.
Thank you. Very helpful and informative!
Best show on the box you two, thanks again😃
You forgot something which most boaters don't consider: The contact with locals and the general atmosphere. I've heard that in several Caribbean islands pople are not very friendly, and crime is rising. In Med, of course it all depends from place to place, but if you know the languages, meeting locals could be a further pleasure.
@@lungarotta Depends on the island. i.e. Grenadians are the loveliest friendliest people ever. On most of the Windward islands we found the local people to be nice (some exceptions of course).
Yes thats true it is very important. We like meeting people locally and often do interviews with them for the channel. I think what we have found is there is a real correlation between how touristed a place is and how good or bad an experience you get with the locals. The more touristy somewhere gets the worse it gets. Yes you might have smiles and 'have a nice day' but all very much skin deep. In the Med the only touristy place in that way was Croatia, where we did get the impression we were just a cash cow. Going to Turkey from there was wonderful. People are just so genuinely nice you can't quite believe it! We need to find less touristed places in the Caribbean because so far it is not working for us. You mentioned crime and many people say it's just linked to poverty, which of course in many ways it is. But in Africa we didn't ever even think of locking our dinghy, so a lot of it is down to culture.
Brilliant analysis
As soon as you get up into the French islands, St. Martin, Guadaloupe, Martinique... you will completely change your score on food. St. Marteen enjoys some of the best culinary fusions in the world - American, Indian, Greek, Chinese, Dutch, ...and of course French. A previous posters comments on Puerto Rico, the DR... and so forth is spot on. Where I think you are off is the sailing in the caribbean. We rarely experience champagne sailing in the caribbean, we found the waves bigger and the sailing mostly rough outside of hurricane season, and found that the Bahamas is truly the king of champagne sailing.
Yes
I know that Venice has been in decline since the turn of the 16th C. (Napoleon certainly didn't help), but it would cinch it for me. Plus, it's not too far by train to Milan & I would just love to see something, anything everything at La Scalla. I did live in Panama for two years back in the 80s, & it changed the way I thought about the world & my place in it. One of the things it did for me, though, was want to avoid the heat. Give me a nice day where a Harris Tweed sports coat is called for & I am all in.
Yes I can relate to wanting some relief from the heat!
it is all personal preference ofcourse but in my opinion the Med is unbeatable. You can cruise for +10 years and still visit new places. The proximity to civilization and its amenities is for me is a big thing. The variety of cultures and food is unmatched. There is still a lot of potential for relatively new cruising grounds like parts of the Black Sea and the Med part of Turkey. Nothing beats being able to go on land in the evening, find a nice restaurant/bar and enjoy your evening. Supermarkets are in general high quality and much less expensive then the Caribbean where provisoning can be a real challenge. The Caribbean is nice for like 2 seasons and then have you seen it all. In the end it's just another island with a nice anchorage and a beach. It all looks a bit the same to me. I am looking to get into full time liveaboard in the near future and the Med will be the place where I will retire. Even in winter you find good places where you can stay and enjoy your time like Venice. Having an EU passport ofcourse makes everything much easier.
If you don't have an EU passport the Med is a huge pain.
The weather ins Mid’s can be furious with in hours. Being prepared for those changes is a must.
Also harbours are not always safe for smaller boats during those storms.
Wave action at some ports are not always pleasant.
What a great film, obviously really informative, but then a glimpse back at all your amazing travels.
Either would be a dream for us in Australia 🇦🇺 😂 fantastic film as always. ⛵️
Great comparison really got us talking thanks.
Excellent summary!! Greatly appreciated the opinions on both.
Have seen last wéek another video like this with complete other opinions. From 18 people who live since 10 years 50/50 med and carrib on ship
What were there findings? do you have a link? Maybe they've found the best places to go?
@@svfairisle U just must invest time in sailchannels and superyacht channels.
Carribean is hatet for temperature and weather and be loved for underwaterlive and freeness. Mediterrain is be loved for food, watertemperature, weather and hated for underwaternolife. weather is ofter more loved but for sailors the wind in mediterrain is horrific. Weather was most important for them. When u need best places to go, tell me ur preferences.
Enjoyed the film. I think when you get to some of the other islands you might change your mind for a few things. This though was your perception and I think you made some honest assessments. Two seasons in the Caribbean and a couple seasons in the Bahamas you’ll likely be very happy. Another area that might be interesting to compare is Panama, and the Sea of Cortez.
Great comparison episode, really enjoyed the format. 👍
What are you guys up to now?
Thank you for your perspective, appreciated!
Really interesting comparison. I've only sailed in 3 Carib islands but much prefer the Med. Surprised at your experience of marina pricing though. I paid €3.8k for 12 months in Sicily, 2022 and €4k for 9 months in Algarve 2023 (12m). For comparison, Jolly Harbour would be $11k / year for my boat.
yes it's possible to get good longer term deals in a lot of places in the Med. It's the ridiculous hike in day rate over summer thats the real killer there.
Beautifully done… and insightful AS ALWAYS.
One important category was hoping to hear your views about SECURITY. From the serious (murders… albeit, few) to petty (thefts) = overall sense of feeling secure/at ease about it.
Yes good point, security is an issue in the Caribbean. We’ve never felt in danger personally here, the recent murder of a couple in Grenada was two escaped convicts trying to get away by boat, I suppose that could happen anywhere. People did warn us to avoid certain places, St Vincent being one but we never felt threatened. The disappointing thing is the petty theft, everyone judiciously locks their dinghys here and still some get stolen. People think this sort of theft is down to poverty but it’s really not an excuse. There was real poverty in several places we sailed to in Africa but zero crime, we never locked the dinghy there. There’s a strange culture in the Caribbean that leads anyone who comes here to really feel not wanted from time to time. It’s difficult to put your finger on but I think it’s that the service industry is taken in sufferance. Really it’s quite off putting, you may get the ‘good day’ and smiles of course but all the workers just talk amongst themselves and ignore the clients as much as they can, we even sat in the immigration office once for an hour with the official on a FaceTime call with her Auntie the whole time. She sort of processed our papers, very slowly, at the same time but didn’t looked at us about twice the whole time we were there. Someone we know who knows the area well described the area as having a thin veneer of smiles and I would say that’s right. It took less than a day after hurricane Beryl went through for the boats in the mangroves to be targeted for wholesale looting, it was a very bad situation
Having sailed for several years in the Caribbean, I would have to agree, and honestly, I think it harks back to the days of slavery. With the tourists being majority white and wealthy, compared with the locals being mostly black and significantly poorer. The locals work very hard to provide all the services for the tourists, while we boaters and tourists seem to have a life of leisure and luxury and I can understand that it leads to resentments. However, I did find that vibe getting less as we travelled south through the islands, it definitely became more comfortable.
@@harpomorris1909 That's interesting that you think it was worse further North in the island chain, but not good news as we found it to be quite a bad vibe in the South.
Thanks for putting this together. Interesting points. I spent 3 years cruising the med, but with Brexit it has just made it too difficult to do the lifestyle there now. Plus I'm more interested in the watersports. Which is why I'm planning on heading to the Caribbean next year.
A few things I found interesting, while there were certainly many calm anchorages in the med, I did find many in Greece were plagued by ferry wakes, and those in Italy were almost always destroyed by the speed boats zipping around. And then there was always the anchorage police whether it be the tiny patch of sea grass that one might touch of the wind swings 180deg or the guy how has mooring balls in the next bay and wants his cut, or the varying distances one could or could not anchor from shore, it always felt like I was doing something wrong unless I was paying someone to be there. I hope it is different in the Caribbean?
I was surprised to see that food was that much more costly in the Caribbean. I mean the markets in the med are fantastic and many great restaurants. Though does this not even out now that you cook onboard more instead of eating out?
You sound like us before we came! Yes there are all the annoyances that you described in the Med regarding anchoring, unfortunately they exist in the Caribbean too. We are not allowed to anchor outside of Spanish water in Curaçao for instance without a day going to Willemstad and paying the harbour master for a 3 day pass. Ferry wakes exist here too, watch the episode where we were in Bequai, the thing is on most days even in a seemingly sheltered bay like that there will also be stop around swell. As for food, we don’t eat out much to be honest, certainly not here as the restaurant food is bad and the service usually worse. So if we can get good supplies then we’re happy. That is possible here in Curaçao, it wasn’t possible in any of the windward islands. I hear the French islands are good for food supplies too, but we haven’t tried them yet.
We have similar ratings to you. Food is mostly a bummer in the Caribbean, except the French islands where it is amazing and much less expensive.
I feel you did not get enough time in the Caribbean before you headed further SW to have really enjoyed it.
In the Bahamas and Caribbean we’ve made wonderful and strong friendships with lots of other cruisers (you’re never socially alone and can always find someone to help you when you’re in a pinch). We’ve only sailed a month in the Mediterranean so our experience cruising there is limited; I was wonder what your thoughts are on the cruising community there?
We were together in at least one anchorage as you this last season. Wish we’d known as we really enjoy your channel and would have enjoyed saying “hi!” 😊
It would have been nice to have gone further up the island chain for sure, hurricane season scuppered that. We are looking forward to seeing more when we can transit North.
The social situation amongst cruisers is the same worldwide I think. Certainly we had places in the Med that were very social. Over 100 cruisers for a Xmas BBQ in Cartagena for instance and regular group meetings and events with about 60 or 70 people in Porto Montenegro, most of whom we're still in touch with.
Look forward to meeting you in an anchorage sometime.
@@svfairisle That’s great to hear. We intend to cross to the Med this coming season and I was worried that maybe it wasn’t as social. We will be in Windwards until we leave in April from St. Lucia. Happy sails!
Hi! We spent a night together in an anchorage in Greece two years ago. S/Y New Wave…
I think you missed an important categorie. Security.
That is a huge consideration for us.
Hi Bart, yes you're right a couple of other people have mentioned it. We have certainly never felt unsafe here in the Caribbean so I guess it wasn't at the front of our minds, but we do lock our dinghy up everywhere and make sure the boat is as well secure as it can be. Petty crime is certainly a thing here. I have to say the place we felt most at risk from robbery though was Mindelo, I certainly wouldn't go there when the ARC is around as apparently it attracts ever thief in the Cape Verdes to gather! Maybe when we do a world comparison we will have a big section on security, so far - the safest place we've visited where we certainly wouldn't bother to lock the dinghy?... Africa (The Gambia! )
Restaurants in the Med are better but having spent considerable time on land in Guadeloupe, Martinique, Dominica, Antigua and Puerto Rico, there are loads of really great places to eat. Sure, local Caribbean food can be a bit bland but there are still lots of tasty eating options for reasonable prices.
Yes people always mention the French islands as being better for food, we were just shocked at how bad it is in the Windward islands.
Nicole and I just returned from 3 months sailing the Mediterranean. Mainly Ballaeric and French coast. Despite being US citizens, the Med is too nice to leave. We love it. The food and culture outweigh all the other factors. Except, propane.. if we can’t get our propane filled we may have to leave!
Ha! Yes we’re having exactly that problem in the ABC’s no one fills campinggaz
Time to come explore our pacific cruising grounds for completeness :-)
Mediterranean would be on my bucket list.
california mexiko
australia
pacific
far east (phillipin indonesia etc.)
indian oceanic incl. madagaskar
persic gulf
red sea
all locations for sailing...
subtropic dry = california mexiko & mediterrain
Tropic dry = australia & red sea & persic gulf
wet tropic = pacific & indic ocean & carribean & far east
great series so informative, pacific next, that'll be interesting up against the other two.
Definitely the Med. I love all the history and different cultures.
I’m curious about flotsam and pollution ?
Well I think that's probably worse in the Med than the Caribbean, but I think the Med is possibly doing more to turn that around.
Thanks For The Great Update ! Stay Safe 2 all ! ( EX R.N Officer ) Kent U.k 😊
Surprised you didn't have a security/safety likelihood of theft category. For me, the Med will always win hands down because of the food and culture. If I wanted Rum, Sun and Fun the Caribbean probably takes the lead.
It dawn on me that all the islands you have visited are English speaking. And all the food that you mentioned on the med is not English at all. Didn't the British food had a bad reputation for many generations?. Maybe you got wait until you get to the Hispanic side of the Caribbean. Puerto Rico, Dominican republic, Cuba, Mexico............... But so far you are spot on.😊😊😊😊
I watch to get camera work tips. It's like a film maker's text book.
you need to do the BVI and VI in Feb, March, April.
Way too crowded with charter boats!
In the Med you have to play the 'Schengen Shuffle' Bill
What do you mean by bill? Haven't heard of that.
@@svfairisle I think they mean bill as in cost - ie the Schengen Shuffle is the price you pay.
Maybe, either that or his name is Bill!
We did twice the “Atlantic round”, we loved the carib very very much. But now it has become extremely crowded. We will never ever go to the Mediterranean. Oh, we are EU citizens ! But never ever we will pay the prices there ! For now we are staying in the Canary islands. Perfect climate, we are in Europe, cheap marinas, unfortunately not so good anchorages. But you can not have it all
Yes we loved the climate in the Canaries when we were there over Xmas. We know some people who do the Canaries- Madeira-Azores circuit which seems like a good thing to do. It you don’t really want marinas like us though the Med is probably the cheapest place to be.
Very interesting comparison. I think the med has more wildlife, perhaps a missing category. For me the easy access to thousands of years of culture in the med is the most important factor. I was surprised at the bland caribbean food.
The Med is an ecosystem desert compared to the Caribbean.
Not sure what you mean by that, but I'm pretty sure it's wrong! Apart from underwater.
Do you know what’s interesting? Listening to your tone and observing your body language and facial expressions it would be easy to conclude that you are enjoying the Caribbean but you prefer the med. I think this is because of two factors….1. Scoring sort of works, but it’s dry. It has no emotion in it. It tells little about how you actually feel about a place. 2. It weights all of the categories the same and, as you said yourselves, the reality is that, say, food and culture are more important to you than, say, cost or sailing or….whatever.
I think you can do the scoring thing, certainly, but I would love to have heard what you would say if you were forced to provide just one score based on your heart or your gut or just ‘how much are we in love with it’ I have a feeling you might get a different result (in favour of the med)
Yes you're right the scoring was closer than what we would have come up with if we had just rated the locations with our feelings for the places. We both enjoyed the Med much more than we are the Caribbean. Hopefully that will come across in the episodes as we talk about places and give our personal opinion. This episode was specifically trying to lay things out so people get a better idea of what they might think taking into account the pluses and minuses. Plenty of people we meet really enjoy the Caribbean and prefer it to the Med. So although there's something to be said for putting forward our feelings we wanted to allow people to make up their own minds taking into account the things that are important to them.
@@svfairisle apologies if I sounded like I was criticising. Certainly not! It was a great video and you continue to be by far the best sailing channel (and in fact the only one I ever watch)
No didn't think you were criticizing, it's a very valid point. We have an inbuilt block to giving personal opinions as ex journalists but realise for what we are doing now people are actually actively wanting to know our opinions. This came out a few years ago when we did a who series of boat reviews at the Annapolis boat show and had interviews with experts and people who really know the boats. We showed the videos to the patrons before they went out and asked what they thought and several people said that although they liked them they thought it needed to have a top and tail like our episodes do with us talking about our personal thoughts on each boat. At that point we just hadn't thought of ever telling people what we think!
Anchoring on a catamaran is fine in the Caribbean....
Ha! yes that's true!
Another category that matters to those of us of a certain age is health care. Shit happens. My guess is that in the Med first class health care is easily available. But I wonder about the Caribbean.
Yes good point
The french west indies and dutch ABC are allright if you a EU citizen
Great 😊
7:05
WOW! What is GOOD about €800 per month??
Well staying in the heart of Venice for €25 / night would be very difficult to beat I think!
If there are no fish in the Med what are the dolphins living on?
Well I think they’re hungry! The fish farmers say they try and break into the fish pens!
They're pretty skinny looking dolphins, tbh
I once saw a program on TV called "A Car for Africa" in which they designed a vehicle from the ground up to be optimal for the conditions there. The Land Rover Defender was by no means suitable. Watching these sailing video's from the Med with the often light and variable winds makes me think there should also be a "Boat for the Med". Take a 36ft say mono hull sailboat and remove all masts, winches, sheets and sails and fit a full length solar roof with athwartships extensions. Replace the diesel with a 10Kw motor, (£2,000), and fit a 2nd life 80KwHr marinized EV battery, (£10,000). Easy to have an 8Kw array, (£7000), generating around 40KwHrs per sunny day. 2Kw for around 4.5kts from your 120KwHr capacity. Theoretical range of 270 Miles for Island hopping although on the 2nd day you would be generating more. Silent, direct, easy travel from A to B. Enough power on board for air con, water makers, washing machines, cooking, fridges, freezers and TV so comfortable nights onboard. You don't put out the sails to catch the wind you put out the panels to catch the sun.
Works well for those who regard a boat as a means by which to travel. Not so much for those who see independant travel as a perk of sailing.
Ha! yes there's certainly a lot of truth in that. It seems the theory and the practice don't always line up though when it comes to this sort of project. Jimmy Cornell (the guy that started the ARC) built an all electric Cat a few years back that was supposed to be able to sail around the world off grid and it failed quite badly. The tech is improving quickly though so I can see this being a thing. In fact I was saying to Judy a few weeks back that when we're too old to sail I intend to have a high tech solar power boat.
@@atakd Very true but I am sure there are just as many "solers" out there rather than sailors that think the same way. The focus was really the summer Med where winds can often be light and variable and sail changes can become a bit of a pain. Many can spend just as much time motoring as they do sailing.
His numbers look about right. A 45ft Cat consuming around 5Kw at 4kts in calm conditions. He is following the typical hybrid sailing route with regenerative electric power under sail to charge a reasonably sized battery bank. Power really for entering and leaving harbour and short electric only passages. Also good for onboard appliances.
This guy is much more interesting. Clearly an electrical engineer who owns an e bike motor business in Canada building and designing his own motors. He also has a small sailboat!
Shamrock Electric Sailboat Conversion Part 4 (and also Part 5 for the first voyage).
Catamarans seem a logical choice but they are expensive. (Silent Yachts !!). Mono hulls are much more cheap and better performing. The key now to affordability are the abundance of high capacity 2nd use EV batteries and cheaper high o/p solar panels.
As I understand it the problem Jimmy had was they weren't getting what they had hoped from the engines in regen mode while sailing. It only really worked at the top end of the speed scale & they were getting very little at normal cruising speed.
Brexit ???
I'm going to get my Maltese passport, don't think it will help Judy though.
Growing up on the opposite side of the planet, I decided that the best thing about my dual UK nationality was being able to travel and work relatively freely in Europe. Very disappointed by brexit on a personal level. On a broader level? Well, this is not that sort of channel, let's leave it at that.
👍
I think family and friends are very subject as you said depending where you are from in can’t be counted in. And I think for culture and food the Med wins 5 out 5 in both cat easy. But thought you were harsh with the Caribbean’s culture. a 3 out 5 would have been fairer in my opinion great Navies’ battles were fought there and The Mayan, Awarak and Cuban cultures are fascinating. As for food at least one more point (2/5 if not 2.5/5), afterall Mexican, Jamaican and Martinican foods are well renowned around the world as good food, but the quality of the raw ingredient gives the Med a 6/5 I agree.
Yes we completely agree. We listened to a couple of audio books on Caribbean history on the Atlantic crossing, there's a lot to this place. Nothing however is apparent in the windward Islands. I'm not just talking about stuffy museums, there's literally nothing here. If you compare the footage from Africa before we crossed there is history, there's a culture, you can feel the influence of the colonial times in the food the art and the traditions. So far here it's just been a service industry to give tourists bad food at inflated prices! I'm sure there will be places in the Caribbean that are still authentic and we will really try and find them.
Even tho im only 35. Your wife is 🔥😅
Wow...😂
I'm so dissapointed that you native English speakers are calling the place the "Car-A-be-an". The spelling & saying, (according to my x-Jamaican partner) is "Car-rib-e-an". [My major bee in the bonet since the release of the pirate movies, it's like the whole world just followed along blindly] Appreciated the comparisons though. rant over lol
I think only Americans will pronounce it that way if you mean with the emphasis on the vowel. But you're right in that it's an I not an A, so although you couldn't really hear it the way non Americans speak it, it should be an I. P.S. i think Johnny Depp had a language all to himself!
@@svfairisle I didn't actually expect a response to my momentary lapse of reason as i spat the dummy out but, like a dog being scratched behind the ears i find myself... content. Thank you & yes, I agree Johnny Depp has his own language. stay safe & fair winds.
Don't get me going on Aloominum!!
@@zooniethelazoon ok, if you insist.
@@zooniethelazoonit pains me to say this, but historically 'aluminum' predates 'aluminium'.
My dear British people. 🇬🇧
The Caribbean is the best region for family cruises, surpassing all in cultures, fauna, ethnicities, colors and music.
My dear Sir, and that you HAVE NOT arrived at the Queen of the Caribbean, which today, wounded and semi-destroyed, is still the most beautiful island that human eyes have ever seen (Do not treat me as arrogant, because this is not what I am saying, but rather what I am saying). said the Genoese Cristhoforo Columbus in 1492.
P.S. When the cursed communism is over, prepare for your visit to the Antillean Grand Cayman.
In fact, they are already welcome in advance.
THERE IS NO COMPARISON with the CARIBBEAN
This nostalgic shit is boring as hell. let us see some new footage
ok next week
You are certainly entitled to that opinion, but this is a great topic. Many of us need to choose between these cruising grounds.