The worst thing is to be an audiophile. In my very younger years, I used to listen to music just for the sake of enjoying the music until a friend of mine started to take me around to audition some good sound. It is as if I became curse the day I was introduced to that environment. Then the chase to get the perfect sound became my journey in life. Needless to say I spent some good pennies on electronic gears. Sometimes it feels I spend more time being technical than actually enjoying the music. It is a curse that can not be reversed because you ears have been trained and have become more sensitive to bad sound than most average Joe out there. All the techniques discussed in the video are good stuff, but if you can enjoy your music without worrying about such technicalities, just enjoy the freaking music! I have gone to places where people are playing their music with no concern about those technicalities and yet they feel they are in heaven while I sit there feeling miserable due to the sound that is coming through the speakers. So my advice to you out there, just enjoy the freaking music.
M, Yes, I know what you mean. However, once the room is treated correctly any gear will sound better. With better sound comes more detail, resolution, and all the other variables a two channel system is capable of producing. If you had spent 25 % of your gear budget on room treatment, You would not have had to chase the gear dragon.
Max Janvier I suspect you are much younger than me. ( I’m 63 ). And a decent Bass guitarist. But when not playing , I’m listening to music. I’ve always had a problem spending money on myself. ( this foolishness habit had cost me something more valuable than money. I’ve lost many years of listening QUALITY music. A good example is in headphones. I’ve had Bose , B&O. Both are passible . But frankly overpriced. I did some research myself. I’m the one listening.....and I’m not buying any product because it has a slick package. A friend told me to ask some DJs and to get my ass out in the market place. My plan was to spend 400 usd tops. Well the phones I listened to were 600 usd. Best money I’ve ever spent! I was listening to some older music in my playlist. There was a lot more going on in the recordings , some 50 plus years than I had noticed ! I heard it as I should have heard it ! ( I will not tell you the brand, you must do your own homework!!!) Trust me .......! Don’t regret getting hooked into the land of the audiophile. CELEBRATE!!! Be grateful that you did not wait until your are my age to start this journey. And it IS a journey. Don’t try to buy everything now ! But do buy something for YOURSELF every year ! Time fly’s by quickly. Don’t be a fool like me and let some chick talk you out of your yearly gadget. If you are happy, you will be a better person. Trust a guy you have never met on this. I don’t have a dog in the fight. So nothing for me to gain .... Except the knowledge that if I convinced one guy to be good to their ears ..... That’s More than enough satisfaction for me! Good Luck!👍🏻
I really wish you would have followed your first sentence by saying it's "frustrating" rather than leaving it as being "bad". Delving into the actual sound of music isn't a curse at all, and it's still more than possible to enjoy music that isn't being played on the highest quality systems (or in a properly tuned environment). Just know where you are. When you're in a listening room, where the expectation is high quality, put your audiophile hat on and nerd out. When you're not, crack open a beer and be one of the guys. Is that really so difficult?
I agree with you on some of the things you say. Chasing the perfect is the real curse. The only thing I chase is for music to sound wonderful in my home, and yes that has been frustrating, since I discovered good equipment is hard to make work in many rooms. I had to sell my amplifier and speakers because they did not work here. My old stereo didnt suffer from the acoustics here. This costs a lot of money. I have decided that once get the synergy with the room and equipment now, I will not buy hifi the next 15 years.
I have a Doctorate in psychology and have been a practical audiophile for 30 years. In this and other videos by Dennis have been invaluable. He obviously knows his physics, but also how to practically relate to his listener. Plus if I have an unanswered question I have found Dennis most willing to personally discuss matters. Thus he is a consummate professional. Thus. In all my years I have never met an engineer like him!.
Yea, sadly my listening position is between 2/3 and 1/2 from the speakers and back wall, and speakers are only about 1ft from the wall. On top of that my chair is almost directly in front of the right speaker. So the only reasonable thing I can do is move my chair back and forth when I am listening to music and not. But, she hasnt complained about 168lbs of concrete stands I have for each bookshelf speaker.
I like this exact, and practical explanation, Dennis. I was aware about stereophonic placement of the traditional high fidelity stereo speakers, 2 speakers, but you've explained more valuable things, such as the rule of thirds concerning additional positioning. Thank you for your wise advice, and judgment; even though most of us actually do not have the perfect rooms, and listening space.
I'm a big fan of Rule of Fifths. Same gig, but a lot more practical for most, since you're a lot closer to a "normal" equipment and listening position. Measure 1/5 from the back wall (behind speakers), but also from the side walls. The speakers go at that intersection. Your listening position is 1/5 from the wall behind you and in the center of the room. For a fairly typical room, say 15x18, the speakers are about 3 1/2 feet from back wall and 3 feet from side walls. Your ears should be about 3 1/2 feet from the wall behind you. Obviously this is just a reference or starting point, and you should tweak from there. By having your listening position 3 1/2 feet from wall behind you, your chair (sofa) is only a couple feet from the wall, so it's not so much in the middle of the room. If it's impractical to keep the seat in the listening position, it's still pretty easy to pull it forward/back. Same with the speakers. If you don't live alone, and therefore need to keep the speakers back away from traffic, a great compromise is to tape the speaker placement on the floor. When you're ready to listen, it takes two seconds to put your speakers right back in the sweet spot. Whether your room works better with Rule of Thirds or Fifths, the great part is that music is an amazing experience and a lot of fun to experiment with. Enjoy!
Much appreciation for all this info! I tried out the 1/3th rule and removed my vinyl closet and all of that stuff. Measured my room,and after i placed my speakers at 1/3 & my sweet spot also 1/3 further (listen position) all my bass was gone. Maybe this has to do with my triangle shaped room? Plus im using studio monitors who also do a good job at nearfield listening. NOw i placed my speakers at a 80cm from the frontwall and my sweetspot at plus minus 2.50mtr and it sounds awsome right now. Hope you can explain this a little bit to me:) Thx in advanced & keep up the good informative work! Best regards
R, You have found a low frequency null. In this null you will have frequency cancellation. The null is a direct result of your unfavorable room dimensions.
Some comments mention being single, wife, kids etc. Dynaudio Academy recommends the 1/5 rule which seems easier to apply. What’s the biggest difference between 1/3 and 1/5 rules?
O, Yes, dual usage rooms are problematic because you are try ing to live and listen in the same room.
4 роки тому
That's why in a small or midsized room is better to use high quality bookshelf spekears on stands than that monsters audiophile monsters a la Wilson Audio, bookshelf or near field monitors interact less with the room, can be placed near the back wall (it's not ideal but improves bass response)
Can you give some examples of software used to determine speaker placement based on the size of the room and speaker size? You mentioned it in the video, but i cannot seem to find any.
J, Start by using a RTA. A real time analyzer will show you a picture of how sound is moving in your room. Position your speakers to indicate the smoothest curve below 125 Hz. as a starting point.
I wish there was a video for us big city apartment dwellers. I have a stereo in the neighborhood of $10K and I think I devalued my sound by 50% when I moved in. The place is full of acoustic challenges probably faced by many which is a living space with a wall of floor-to-ceiling glass and the opposing side sweeps into the kitchen area. Add hardwood on top of that and you've got an acoustic nightmare. My system has never sounded so bright. Suck to be me.
Have you thought about nearfield listening? If you take out the first and second order reflections, it may be possible to dive right into the sweet spot your system is able to create.
@@AcousticFields You lose credibility when you can't manage to record yourself speaking on sound. Don't you get that? You either don't know anything about sound or you don't care.
Speakers are a sound source. Their location depends on many issues such as the room ratios, the frequency response of the speakers, the pressure level at which source is played, the amount of low-frequency management in the room to name a few. Finding the correct position is time consuming and is part of the room voicing process.
Thanks for the videos!!! I have a question please. One way to change or treat the critical position may can be put diffusors on the side walls?? thanks.
Side wall diffusion is a tricky thing. You must have enough distance from speaker to side wall diffusion. You must also have speakers that exhibit certain radiation patterns. Most side wall distances are too small for diffusion in today's smaller rooms. Side wall diffusion is reserved for playback systems. Control room monitoring must use absorption on front and side walls.
In your experience, how much influence does the type of loudspeaker play in determining the ideal position? Ive had infinate baffle loudspeakers that really sounded much better closer to the rear wall, electrostatics really did need the 1/3rd to make them sing and sound clear tho.
Hi Adi, Thanks for your comments. Speaker type has a large impact on set up positioning because room boundary surfaces reinforce different parts of the audio presentation made by different type speakers. Your observations in your comment, indicate some of these boundary issues and how they translate into different sounds. Scientifically, speaker types usually do not have that much difference in room response curves, but there is a large subjective difference as you have noted in different speaker types. Thanks Dennis
Great video! Don't always agree with what you profess Dennis but we are on the same page here. Have you considered the Cardas Method, or the Master Method?
DJ, Those are attempts. They are tactics in search of a strategy. There are simply too many variables to consider to use a methodology based in generalizations that misses most of the important ones.
i really dont get it, does this aply to when you use it for control room? or? i mean my room is 19 feet 3 11/16 inches length, 12 feet 21/32 inches width and 8 feet 2 27/64 inches hight, does it still apply with speakers in 3.rd of the room and the other 3.rd my listen possition? because if so, then the rule about sitting about a meter away from your speakers makes no sense if i got lets say 40 feet length room. and also, now that i'm so far into my room with my speakers, should i now have a speaker with less bass respons, because my room now is smaller, because it's not fully 19 feet because of the speakers placements in the third of the room, if that makes sense
Hi there, Unfortunately I have a cube shaped room. Would the rule of thirds still apply here? Also, how would you recommend setting up bass absorption in a corner where there's a door? Many thanks
Hi Stuff, Our data base is showing axial (two wall) resonances at: 43, 86, 130, 173, 217, 260, 304, 347, 391. I show tangential (4 wall) resonances at 61, 67, 97, 100, 111, 134, 140, 160, 165, 176, 181, 201, 210, 223, 232, 243, 269 Hz. These modes average from + 5 dB - + 13 dB over acceptable. Now you see the problems associated with cubes. What is the usage of this room?
Thanks for the quick reply! Well, I am hoping to make it a listening room and to use for non professional music production. Sounds like it's going to be a hell of a job!
Hello , I Cant use the rule of third in My room its small 3.23 width x 3.87 length so what should i do ? How can i find my spot in my situation ? I started my listening position in 38% Of the length .. but i have too Much Bass in the Room .. becoz i did measurements in the room ☹️
Yes, you can use an HS7 or HS8 in a room this size. Moving up the studio monitor size would mean an ability to listen at a louder level with less distortion. It all depends on your budget, but an H7 or HS8 combined with an HS8S subwoofer along with corner bass traps and 15% to 25% acoustic treatment of coverage in the room would be a solid win!
@@andynonimuss6298 The speakers may not distort but the room will load. Placing treatment in the corners of a room does nothing for axial modes which are the most audible of the three. The definition of an axial mode is unwanted pressure between two parallel walls not two parallel corners.
Hi Amiel, The rule of thirds and an equilateral triangle are separate concepts. The rule of thirds describes areas of your room that you can use to set up your equilateral triangle within. You divide your room into three sections (thirds) and then set your speakers and listening position up in one of those three areas. An equilateral triangle describes the distance from each speaker to speaker and speaker to listening position that are equal in length. Both the rule of thirds and the equilateral triangle are starting points to use. Your actual set up will be influenced by speaker type, array, music type, room size/volume and pressure listening levels along with many other variables.
Room acoustics make a lot of difference. This room sounds awful. It is too empty and produces a lot of echoes that bite. What I started doing, is lining the back and side walls just past the speakers with carpet and padding. All reflections are much reduced. All windows get covered. I also like a foot or two of carpet and padding on the back wall ceiling. Rugs help with the floor reflection. This setup cleans the sound quite a bit. It will also smooth out some of the bad over emphasized frequencies. Many times., I think people blame their equipment when the problem is the room. Too big a room sounds flat.Too small usually sounds bright. It can bite like a dog. I was once in a recording studio that had separate rooms for the different instruments. The place was terribly dull, too dull. They also had an echo chamber with speakers in one end and mics in the other. All four surfaces were covered with mortar mixed with oil. That was awful ! You almost couldn't talk in that room. It was "alive". Box speakers always produce sound from the box. Covering the top, part of the back, and the sides with blankets cleans up the sound considerably. If you happen to have magnepans, you have some of the best sound available. My main system in maggie 1.6's and dual Conrad Johnson 11a tube amps. Cables are Goertz alpha core copper flat cables. Pre is a sonic frontiers SFL-2. What I like in a stereo isn't a great sounding stereo. I hate stereo equipment. The closer to "live" sound, the better. I have yet to see a single stereo room at a dealer that sounded live (Real), and I used to live in Los Angeles.
off topic but i have arcam a39 amp vpi scout jr and clear audio cartridge. 1200 $ cartridge. would i get better sound quality with separate phono pre amp i was looking at the Clearaudio - Basic Phono Stage Plus
Sound quality is all about the marriage of the room and treatment for all frequency issues to driver size and speaker dispersion pattern or array. It is seldom about the gear. You can take a $2,000 system and place it in a $50,000 treated room and your sound quality will be 100,000. You can take a 100,000 system and place it in a 2,000 treated room and your system will sound like it cost 2,000.00
I have a problem, I don't get an entire room to position things perfectly. I play guitar and sing and I get one corner of a 13'x23' room as my music space. I just bought 2 bose s1 speakers. I sit or stand in the corner facing out into the room playing guitar and singing. I was planning on wall mounting the bose equal distances from the corner apposing about 3ft in front of me. at about 5' to 7' high. I'm trying to reduce vocal feedback from my microphones. I have yet to try this location, but I'm limited and I'm not really sure how best to use a Corner Space.......suggestions?
A, You must manage the reflections from the corners to reduce feedback of middle range frequencies (vocals). Use the correct rate and level of absorption for voice and guitar. Place on stands. This will give you more control with microphones.
The speakers need to be inline with your microphone or closer to your audience area. The key is to not have your speakers feeding sound back into your microphone.if you want to face them at you for monitoring then you need to position the mic so that the rejection point of the mic is facing the speakers. ie a cardioid mic the back of the mic faces the speaker directly, a supercardiod is slightly off to the side. Please refer to blog.shure.com/multi-pattern-microphones-what-where-and-how/ for pictorial representation.
Its all about keeping the distances equal since sound travels at a certain speed. You want the distances between the speakers to be close to the distance from each speaker to the listening position. You want the distances from the speakers to the sidewalls to be equal. Stay at least 4' from any existing room boundary surface. Position your equilateral triangle within your room where those requirements are met.
This is all fine and dandy, but what am I supposed to do with my coffee table, sofa, china cabinet, dinner table....and most of all, how am I supposed to listen to music with a Jack Russell's tongue in my ear???
@@AcousticFields I also meant to ask, how do you deal with a room that is a rectangle, and circumstances require placement of equipment and speakers on one of the long walls?
J, Longwall placement is fine depending on the distance to the rear wall. Longwall placement minimizes the reflection issue from the side walls but usually shortens the distance to the rear wall. What would be the distance from chair to rear wall with the long wall set up?
@@AcousticFields Sitting position is appx 1/3 back from front wall. About the best I can do is speaker placement about 1 foot away from front wall. I'm still trying to get my dog to take it's tongue out of my ear! :)
None of this is usable in 3/4 of people's real life applications. My speakers must be placed in precise locations. Room size, furniture, children, pets. That's what dictates your sound. Not "rules". If my sound is negatively affected by my conditions, so be it.
M, Not true at all. Most of our clients are concerned with getting the most out of their equipment especially concerning the cost of it. They want to get every ounce of performance they can including the speaker placement. Part of that process involves the room, no matter what your personal situation is.
📢 *_Watch Part 2 Here:_* ua-cam.com/video/1QO7WqFM5iE/v-deo.html
The worst thing is to be an audiophile. In my very younger years, I used to listen to music just for the sake of enjoying the music until a friend of mine started to take me around to audition some good sound. It is as if I became curse the day I was introduced to that environment. Then the chase to get the perfect sound became my journey in life. Needless to say I spent some good pennies on electronic gears. Sometimes it feels I spend more time being technical than actually enjoying the music.
It is a curse that can not be reversed because you ears have been trained and have become more sensitive to bad sound than most average Joe out there.
All the techniques discussed in the video are good stuff, but if you can enjoy your music without worrying about such technicalities, just enjoy the freaking music! I have gone to places where people are playing their music with no concern about those technicalities and yet they feel they are in heaven while I sit there feeling miserable due to the sound that is coming through the speakers.
So my advice to you out there, just enjoy the freaking music.
M, Yes, I know what you mean. However, once the room is treated correctly any gear will sound better. With better sound comes more detail, resolution, and all the other variables a two channel system is capable of producing. If you had spent 25 % of your gear budget on room treatment, You would not have had to chase the gear dragon.
Max Janvier I suspect you are much younger than me.
( I’m 63 ). And a decent Bass guitarist.
But when not playing , I’m listening to music.
I’ve always had a problem spending money on myself.
( this foolishness habit had cost me something more valuable than money.
I’ve lost many years of listening QUALITY music.
A good example is in headphones. I’ve had Bose ,
B&O. Both are passible .
But frankly overpriced.
I did some research myself.
I’m the one listening.....and I’m not buying any product because it has a slick package.
A friend told me to ask some DJs and to get my ass out in the market place.
My plan was to spend 400 usd tops. Well the phones I listened to were 600 usd.
Best money I’ve ever spent!
I was listening to some older music in my playlist.
There was a lot more going on in the recordings , some 50 plus years than I had noticed !
I heard it as I should have heard it !
( I will not tell you the brand, you must do your own homework!!!)
Trust me .......!
Don’t regret getting hooked into the land of the audiophile.
CELEBRATE!!!
Be grateful that you did not wait until your are my age to start this journey. And it IS a journey.
Don’t try to buy everything now !
But do buy something for YOURSELF every year !
Time fly’s by quickly.
Don’t be a fool like me and let some chick talk you out of your yearly gadget.
If you are happy, you will be a better person. Trust a guy you have never met on this.
I don’t have a dog in the fight.
So nothing for me to gain ....
Except the knowledge that if I convinced one guy to be good to their ears .....
That’s More than enough satisfaction for me!
Good Luck!👍🏻
I really wish you would have followed your first sentence by saying it's "frustrating" rather than leaving it as being "bad". Delving into the actual sound of music isn't a curse at all, and it's still more than possible to enjoy music that isn't being played on the highest quality systems (or in a properly tuned environment). Just know where you are. When you're in a listening room, where the expectation is high quality, put your audiophile hat on and nerd out. When you're not, crack open a beer and be one of the guys. Is that really so difficult?
Said very well, and with honesty, and genuinely expressed.
I agree with you on some of the things you say. Chasing the perfect is the real curse. The only thing I chase is for music to sound wonderful in my home, and yes that has been frustrating, since I discovered good equipment is hard to make work in many rooms. I had to sell my amplifier and speakers because they did not work here. My old stereo didnt suffer from the acoustics here. This costs a lot of money. I have decided that once get the synergy with the room and equipment now, I will not buy hifi the next 15 years.
I have a Doctorate in psychology and have been a practical audiophile for 30 years. In this and other videos by Dennis have been invaluable. He obviously knows his physics, but also how to practically relate to his listener. Plus if I have an unanswered question I have found Dennis most willing to personally discuss matters. Thus he is a consummate professional. Thus. In all my years I have never met an engineer like him!.
So, he is a friend of yours then?
To use the rule of thirds in a living room u have to be single.lol
so true
Yea, sadly my listening position is between 2/3 and 1/2 from the speakers and back wall, and speakers are only about 1ft from the wall. On top of that my chair is almost directly in front of the right speaker. So the only reasonable thing I can do is move my chair back and forth when I am listening to music and not.
But, she hasnt complained about 168lbs of concrete stands I have for each bookshelf speaker.
I have 3 critical situation regarding speaker position like ; wife , kids, average life ;D
Grate vids btw all the best.
Regards
Monkey
I know what you mean :-)
This type of info, is what I was looking for.
I like this exact, and practical explanation, Dennis. I was aware about stereophonic placement of the traditional high fidelity stereo speakers, 2 speakers, but you've explained more valuable things, such as the rule of thirds concerning additional positioning. Thank you for your wise advice, and judgment; even though most of us actually do not have the perfect rooms, and listening space.
G, Stereophonic presentation has requirements. You can bend the rules a bit but not much.
Wow, Dennis is grayer now, but thinner and a much more polished speaker. Good job man!
I'm a big fan of Rule of Fifths. Same gig, but a lot more practical for most, since you're a lot closer to a "normal" equipment and listening position. Measure 1/5 from the back wall (behind speakers), but also from the side walls. The speakers go at that intersection. Your listening position is 1/5 from the wall behind you and in the center of the room. For a fairly typical room, say 15x18, the speakers are about 3 1/2 feet from back wall and 3 feet from side walls. Your ears should be about 3 1/2 feet from the wall behind you. Obviously this is just a reference or starting point, and you should tweak from there. By having your listening position 3 1/2 feet from wall behind you, your chair (sofa) is only a couple feet from the wall, so it's not so much in the middle of the room. If it's impractical to keep the seat in the listening position, it's still pretty easy to pull it forward/back. Same with the speakers. If you don't live alone, and therefore need to keep the speakers back away from traffic, a great compromise is to tape the speaker placement on the floor. When you're ready to listen, it takes two seconds to put your speakers right back in the sweet spot. Whether your room works better with Rule of Thirds or Fifths, the great part is that music is an amazing experience and a lot of fun to experiment with. Enjoy!
S, Yes, this is another method to use as a starting point. The main effort is in the moving and tuning from a start point.
Much appreciation for all this info! I tried out the 1/3th rule and removed my vinyl closet and all of that stuff. Measured my room,and after i placed my speakers at 1/3 & my sweet spot also 1/3 further (listen position) all my bass was gone. Maybe this has to do with my triangle shaped room? Plus im using studio monitors who also do a good job at nearfield listening. NOw i placed my speakers at a 80cm from the frontwall and my sweetspot at plus minus 2.50mtr and it sounds awsome right now. Hope you can explain this a little bit to me:) Thx in advanced & keep up the good informative work! Best regards
R, You have found a low frequency null. In this null you will have frequency cancellation. The null is a direct result of your unfavorable room dimensions.
Man u make everything so simple thanks
M, Thank you for your support.
Thanks for the information
Some comments mention being single, wife, kids etc. Dynaudio Academy recommends the 1/5 rule which seems easier to apply. What’s the biggest difference between 1/3 and 1/5 rules?
A, These are just starting ratios. It depends on room size and volume more than anything.
Thanks dennis......that makes sense. Ive suspected i have a bright sounding room. Interesting....
This advise is nice if you have a room you can dedicate to sound. Most living spaces can't be like this unfortunately.
O, Yes, dual usage rooms are problematic because you are try ing to live and listen in the same room.
That's why in a small or midsized room is better to use high quality bookshelf spekears on stands than that monsters audiophile monsters a la Wilson Audio, bookshelf or near field monitors interact less with the room, can be placed near the back wall (it's not ideal but improves bass response)
S, It does not improve bass response. It brings more room distortion into the presentation. Quantity is not quality.
What’s the final exit criteria? Let’s say we got handle of all three, how do you quantify the positioning? Max energy?
H, It depends on room size and volume, number and diameter of low-frequency drivers and many other variables.
Can you give some examples of software used to determine speaker placement based on the size of the room and speaker size? You mentioned it in the video, but i cannot seem to find any.
J, Start by using a RTA. A real time analyzer will show you a picture of how sound is moving in your room. Position your speakers to indicate the smoothest curve below 125 Hz. as a starting point.
I wish there was a video for us big city apartment dwellers. I have a stereo in the neighborhood of $10K and I think I devalued my sound by 50% when I moved in. The place is full of acoustic challenges probably faced by many which is a living space with a wall of floor-to-ceiling glass and the opposing side sweeps into the kitchen area. Add hardwood on top of that and you've got an acoustic nightmare. My system has never sounded so bright. Suck to be me.
M, Yes, I am familiar with the issues. Fill out the information in this link: www.acousticfields.com/free-room-analysis/
I'm right there with ya.. except my floors are all bare concrete lol
Have you thought about nearfield listening? If you take out the first and second order reflections, it may be possible to dive right into the sweet spot your system is able to create.
Why you dont give focus on a good quality microphone and voice record for this vodeo?! :(
N, Focus on the content so you can increase your knowledge. Knowledge lasts forever.
@@AcousticFields You lose credibility when you can't manage to record yourself speaking on sound. Don't you get that? You either don't know anything about sound or you don't care.
@@larrysmith6797 u sound like a loser
Does this apply to rooms dedicated to mixing music?
Speakers are a sound source. Their location depends on many issues such as the room ratios, the frequency response of the speakers, the pressure level at which source is played, the amount of low-frequency management in the room to name a few. Finding the correct position is time consuming and is part of the room voicing process.
Thanks for the videos!!! I have a question please.
One way to change or treat the critical position may can be put diffusors on the side walls?? thanks.
Side wall diffusion is a tricky thing. You must have enough distance from speaker to side wall diffusion. You must also have speakers that exhibit certain radiation patterns. Most side wall distances are too small for diffusion in today's smaller rooms. Side wall diffusion is reserved for playback systems. Control room monitoring must use absorption on front and side walls.
Acoustic Fields ohh ok ok thanks for your reply!!!
In your experience, how much influence does the type of loudspeaker play in determining the ideal position? Ive had infinate baffle loudspeakers that really sounded much better closer to the rear wall, electrostatics really did need the 1/3rd to make them sing and sound clear tho.
Hi Adi,
Thanks for your comments. Speaker type has a large impact on set up positioning because room boundary surfaces reinforce different parts of the audio presentation made by different type speakers. Your observations in your comment, indicate some of these boundary issues and how they translate into different sounds.
Scientifically, speaker types usually do not have that much difference in room response curves, but there is a large subjective difference as you have noted in different speaker types.
Thanks
Dennis
how can you compensate for an uneven room due to a door being in an uneven location
Great video! Don't always agree with what you profess Dennis but we are on the same page here. Have you considered the Cardas Method, or the Master Method?
DJ, Those are attempts. They are tactics in search of a strategy. There are simply too many variables to consider to use a methodology based in generalizations that misses most of the important ones.
@@AcousticFields Thanks for the reply, Dennis.
i really dont get it, does this aply to when you use it for control room? or? i mean my room is 19 feet 3 11/16 inches length, 12 feet 21/32 inches width and 8 feet 2 27/64 inches hight, does it still apply with speakers in 3.rd of the room and the other 3.rd my listen possition? because if so, then the rule about sitting about a meter away from your speakers makes no sense if i got lets say 40 feet length room. and also, now that i'm so far into my room with my speakers, should i now have a speaker with less bass respons, because my room now is smaller, because it's not fully 19 feet because of the speakers placements in the third of the room, if that makes sense
All set up suggestions are only starting points. You must do your own room tuning. Your set up will differ drastically after treatment.
Hi there,
Unfortunately I have a cube shaped room. Would the rule of thirds still apply here? Also, how would you recommend setting up bass absorption in a corner where there's a door?
Many thanks
I'm not sure if it's helpful, but my room is: L 13ft / W 13ft / H 11ft
Hi Stuff, Our data base is showing axial (two wall) resonances at: 43, 86, 130, 173, 217, 260, 304, 347, 391. I show tangential (4 wall) resonances at 61, 67, 97, 100, 111, 134, 140, 160, 165, 176, 181, 201, 210, 223, 232, 243, 269 Hz. These modes average from + 5 dB - + 13 dB over acceptable. Now you see the problems associated with cubes. What is the usage of this room?
Thanks for the quick reply! Well, I am hoping to make it a listening room and to use for non professional music production. Sounds like it's going to be a hell of a job!
How would the rule of thirds work in a L shaped room?
K, You have to use a front wall and side walls that are connected. Leave the rear wall open.
Hello ,
I Cant use the rule of third in My room its small
3.23 width x 3.87 length so what should i do ? How can i find my spot in my situation ?
I started my listening position in 38% Of the length .. but i have too Much Bass in the Room .. becoz i did measurements in the room ☹️
D, Lower the amount of energy you place in the room. Minimize all energy below 90 Hz.
Acoustic Fields im sorry i didnt understand can u explain more
@@assi4grass You should add a low pass filter Or just boost the mid some more and lower the low's
sir I have a 12x12 feet room. I want to buy yamaha YHT1840 5.1 Speaker system. Is it ideal for my room? please answer.
R, Your room is too small for that amount of energy.
Are hs5 too small for 12x11 ft. Room ?
I do not know what hs5 is
@@AcousticFields hs5 yamaha speakers
Yes, you can use an HS7 or HS8 in a room this size. Moving up the studio monitor size would mean an ability to listen at a louder level with less distortion. It all depends on your budget, but an H7 or HS8 combined with an HS8S subwoofer along with corner bass traps and 15% to 25% acoustic treatment of coverage in the room would be a solid win!
@@andynonimuss6298 The speakers may not distort but the room will load. Placing treatment in the corners of a room does nothing for axial modes which are the most audible of the three. The definition of an axial mode is unwanted pressure between two parallel walls not two parallel corners.
So the Rule of thirds not necessarily implies a perfect equilateral triangle?
Hi Amiel, The rule of thirds and an equilateral triangle are separate concepts. The rule of thirds describes areas of your room that you can use to set up your equilateral triangle within. You divide your room into three sections (thirds) and then set your speakers and listening position up in one of those three areas. An equilateral triangle describes the distance from each speaker to speaker and speaker to listening position that are equal in length. Both the rule of thirds and the equilateral triangle are starting points to use. Your actual set up will be influenced by speaker type, array, music type, room size/volume and pressure listening levels along with many other variables.
ok, that is what I was thinking, so under the concept the rule of thirds, then u apply the t equilateral Triangle ,,Thanks
@@AmielRocker , well, kind of..... once you institute the rule of thirds..... you will be left with an equilateral.
Room acoustics make a lot of difference. This room sounds awful. It is too empty and produces a lot of echoes that bite. What I started doing, is lining the back and side walls just past the speakers with carpet and padding. All reflections are much reduced. All windows get covered. I also like a foot or two of carpet and padding on the back wall ceiling. Rugs help with the floor reflection. This setup cleans the sound quite a bit. It will also smooth out some of the bad over emphasized frequencies. Many times., I think people blame their equipment when the problem is the room. Too big a room sounds flat.Too small usually sounds bright. It can bite like a dog. I was once in a recording studio that had separate rooms for the different instruments. The place was terribly dull, too dull. They also had an echo chamber with speakers in one end and mics in the other. All four surfaces were covered with mortar mixed with oil. That was awful ! You almost couldn't talk in that room. It was "alive". Box speakers always produce sound from the box. Covering the top, part of the back, and the sides with blankets cleans up the sound considerably. If you happen to have magnepans, you have some of the best sound available. My main system in maggie 1.6's and dual Conrad Johnson 11a tube amps. Cables are Goertz alpha core copper flat cables. Pre is a sonic frontiers SFL-2. What I like in a stereo isn't a great sounding stereo. I hate stereo equipment. The closer to "live" sound, the better. I have yet to see a single stereo room at a dealer that sounded live (Real), and I used to live in Los Angeles.
T, Yes, your observations are correct. We see and hear the same thing every day with calls, emails, and room forms.
Sorry thats seated position closer to the rear wall with the loudspeakers almost touching the front wall :-)
baaad juju
off topic but i have arcam a39 amp vpi scout jr and clear audio cartridge. 1200 $ cartridge. would i get better sound quality with separate phono pre amp i was looking at the Clearaudio - Basic Phono Stage Plus
Sound quality is all about the marriage of the room and treatment for all frequency issues to driver size and speaker dispersion pattern or array. It is seldom about the gear. You can take a $2,000 system and place it in a $50,000 treated room and your sound quality will be 100,000. You can take a 100,000 system and place it in a 2,000 treated room and your system will sound like it cost 2,000.00
I have a problem, I don't get an entire room to position things perfectly. I play guitar and sing and I get one corner of a 13'x23' room as my music space. I just bought 2 bose s1 speakers. I sit or stand in the corner facing out into the room playing guitar and singing. I was planning on wall mounting the bose equal distances from the corner apposing about 3ft in front of me. at about 5' to 7' high. I'm trying to reduce vocal feedback from my microphones. I have yet to try this location, but I'm limited and I'm not really sure how best to use a Corner Space.......suggestions?
A, You must manage the reflections from the corners to reduce feedback of middle range frequencies (vocals). Use the correct rate and level of absorption for voice and guitar. Place on stands. This will give you more control with microphones.
The speakers need to be inline with your microphone or closer to your audience area. The key is to not have your speakers feeding sound back into your microphone.if you want to face them at you for monitoring then you need to position the mic so that the rejection point of the mic is facing the speakers. ie a cardioid mic the back of the mic faces the speaker directly, a supercardiod is slightly off to the side. Please refer to blog.shure.com/multi-pattern-microphones-what-where-and-how/ for pictorial representation.
I don't see "the rule of thirds" to be practical. That would mean that 1/3 of the area of my listening room is unusable. There has to be a better way.
Its all about keeping the distances equal since sound travels at a certain speed. You want the distances between the speakers to be close to the distance from each speaker to the listening position. You want the distances from the speakers to the sidewalls to be equal. Stay at least 4' from any existing room boundary surface. Position your equilateral triangle within your room where those requirements are met.
This is all fine and dandy, but what am I supposed to do with my coffee table, sofa, china cabinet, dinner table....and most of all, how am I supposed to listen to music with a Jack Russell's tongue in my ear???
J, LOL I understand your distractions but I need to help people identify issues that keep them away from real enjoyment of their electronics and room.
@@AcousticFields I also meant to ask, how do you deal with a room that is a rectangle, and circumstances require placement of equipment and speakers on one of the long walls?
J, Longwall placement is fine depending on the distance to the rear wall. Longwall placement minimizes the reflection issue from the side walls but usually shortens the distance to the rear wall. What would be the distance from chair to rear wall with the long wall set up?
@@AcousticFields Sitting position is appx 1/3 back from front wall. About the best I can do is speaker placement about 1 foot away from front wall. I'm still trying to get my dog to take it's tongue out of my ear! :)
J, Your speakers must be at least 4' from the front wall surface.
None of this is usable in 3/4 of people's real life applications. My speakers must be placed in precise locations. Room size, furniture, children, pets. That's what dictates your sound. Not "rules". If my sound is negatively affected by my conditions, so be it.
M, Not true at all. Most of our clients are concerned with getting the most out of their equipment especially concerning the cost of it. They want to get every ounce of performance they can including the speaker placement. Part of that process involves the room, no matter what your personal situation is.