John Calder of Acoustic Geometry shows what acoustic panels are and where they should be placed for improving sound in rooms of all kinds. Acoustic Geometry Website: bit.ly/acoustic...
Even if they are trying to sell something, which is not a bad thing, this video does a great job explaining everything you really need to know in under 5 minutes. Good video.
@@BojanMarusic The point of treatment isn't creating a dead room or a room for voice over. The point of that room is to remove problem areas from the speakers to your ears. A dead room is terrible for good sound.
@geluidsoverlast Not really. You will make your room too dead which is not something you want. You will just waste your money just like on foam. Better to do it correct the first time and in a lot of cases, rockwool is much cheaper than the thickness you'll need with curtains. (30 euros (40 USD) a pack of 8.) Also a positive thing is that the rockwool acoustic panel designs will stay with you your entire life, making it convenient when switching places or situations.
I don't think it does. the curved piece is not a diffusor, it's a redirector and it's not really diffusing the sound like a Quadratic Diffusor. Plus, why would you want sound to be pointed downwards and upwards due to the orientation of the device? I have never seen a video, this one included, that's going to be able to cover everything you need to know in 5 minutes. Acoustic treatment, acoustics, etc. is NOT something you can learn in 5 minutes or less. Too much to consider. I will suggest going to another site that discusses things in easy to understand terminology, but addresses a lot of myths, misconceptions about room treatment and goes after what the problems are and how to really address them.
I was thinking the same. But I'm the one looking for answers. Lol. I'm like I can do curved paintings use great geometric patterns. Or just put carpets in. Lol..
I thought this was overkill for improving sound BUT when I had my Christmas tree in my listening room in about the spot where one would but a defusier it was a real difference in the sound quality and experience .
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@@a.b1266 The bigger racket is selling crappy panels that don't use the right materials and designs and not putting them in the right position. There are a lot of companies that use the wrong materials. Or they call something a "diffusor" or "bass trap" that don't really do what the name insinuates, thusmaking it more expensive because if you treat with the wrong products, it costs even more to replace them with better products that actually fix the problems in the room. this video is very basic and there's a lot more to deal with in order to treat the room.
@@dd-vm1hs Um. Heavy drapes, towels, woven carpets are NOT sound diffusion materials. They are sound absorption materials, but unless you know their respective absorption coefficients, you are kind of flying blind. only people on extreme budget constraints would opt for the El Cheapo route, but the results simply will reflect your choices made. They aren't designed for room treatment. in a pinch with no budget, sure, but if you someone that works in your environment as a recording engineer or a serious listener of music with an expensive system, it's not optimal to use drapes, towels or woven carpets. I know for a fact that used thick carpets are HORRIBLE for acoustic treatment. Back when I was a teenager in the 70's, playing in a local band, we lined our practice room with thick carpet and it sounded like total garbage.. I wouldn't recommend it at all.
@@dd-vm1hs well, I would like to see an indepedent study of what you're talking about compared to a specific brand of acoustic foam that has been tested with the same testing lab, so if you want to construct some type of acoustic panel and send it off to RAL (Alion) if the mfg. used them to derive their tests, if they used another testing lab, then send off your panels to that testing lab, go right ahead and let's compare the results. That's the only real way to compare two products. Same tests performed in the same independent testing lab. Here's a graph of various materials (acoustic foam not listed by any particular brand along with Sonnex) and look at the varying absorption coefficients. Here's one website that has testing different types of drapery, carpet. I don't know who the testing lab was, but they have results posted with a lot of other materials, Acoustic Fields does have their test results posted on their acoustic foam for comparison purposes. So please examine the 125hz to 500hz range as that's where you are going to find the biggest differences. www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-RT60Coeff.htm They do have Sonnex foam listed, but not Acoustic Fields. But you can compare AF's foam from their website data as they do have it posted somewhere.. Proof is in the measurements. I'm sure the carpet, and drapes they measured might not be the exact same as what you might use, but they might be VERY similar...
I got myself a new hobby, quilting. I make mostly 40 x 60 in quilts, cotton top, flannel batting in the middle and cotton backing. The sound in my music room improved tremendously.
did you see those speakers he picked out, they use mock 2 vacuum tubes those are really dated and have poor quality by modern standards, also those speakers use baby baby seal pelts and are assembled by children. and he is using sound max brand not sound top sound brand, I don't like that. All of these things reflect on his company and knowledge. gone are the days when this not-c collaborator can simply present his product in a neutral manner with a "I just want to sell acoustic panels." every business should find it's customer niche and take a stand on important issues to that customer base and only sell to that customer base or they will soon find them self with no friends at all. where do you stand? is that how business should be? He picked trying just trying sell the panels and not get in to the weeds. he made his choice. It is the start of 2021 you likely find all this ridiculous. What did you find ridiculous at the start of 2020, The new normal and cultural revolution is not over. I will be in reeducation camp for telling you. you have no idea how bad it can get, look at history not just the propaganda history really dig for the actual history. doctors will be forced to become farmers and farmers will be forced to become doctors, that actually happened, the country starved and was sick because of it.
It's probably worth mentioning that some experimentation should be employed here. I understand this is meant as a brief overview but yeah. Getting a microphone specifically designed to analyze your rooms acoustic signature and some software to disiminate that information (Room EQ Wizard is a wonderful tool and it's free) will pay dividends when deciding on the placement of your panels and diffusers. If you're going to do it, do it right. I find it also helps, as a mixing engineer, to know exactly where in the frequency spectrum, the issues in your room lie. Helps to avoid certain mistakes when navigating a mix. For example, I know not to fret too much over a lack of bass in the 80-100hz range because I can see on my graph that my room has a reasonably deep null there.
@@seigeengine And in a few cases, how to do them wrong. It also doesn't address use case: Is this a low-budget home theatre? Listening room? Mixing room?
If you want a better understanding of how sound waves behave then I suggest taking a trip down to the beach and study how sea waves behave when they hit an obstruction. A strong sea wave will reflect back off a flat sea wall but against other protruding obstructions the wave will often split into two or more waves, each new wave carrying less energy than the original. A sea wave hitting a group of rocks will be broken up into many more higher frequency but lower energy waves. Higher frequency (but lower energy) sea waves can even be absorbed by dense mats of sea weed. Sound absorbing materials (earthwool, foam, rubber etc.) are performing the same role on sound waves as the beach obstructions are performing on sea waves. Sound waves are of course travelling much faster than sea waves at about 340m per second. So a single sound source will be received by your ear many times in a room due to reflections until it is absorbed by materals in the room. As with sea waves, each reflection off a room obstruction will often split the originating wave into one or more new sound waves. The lower the frequency of the originating sound wave, the more reflections it takes before it is all absorbed (because more energy is stored in each lower frequency wave than a single higher frequency waves). Since they contain more energy in a single wave, lower frequency waves travel further, a characteristic that whales and elephants use in communication over long distances.
You can do it in home by having some water in the round bucket and dropping pebbles or stones in it. I used this to study Huygens wavelets, that big wave and small wave stuff. Always remember Transverse waves differ from Longitudinal waves in Nature, especially refraction and reflection, Free end vs Fixed end.
Even so famous acoustic companies lack this type of videos... So much to learn from this single video.. Or is it the only video discussing placement in entire YT😂
Very interesting video. On an relative easy way to understand by everybody, you explain the basis of acoustic treatment beginning with the difference between absorber and diffuser panels and where to install them correctly. Many thanks for this: I've learned many things in a very short time. :-)
I think they when from basic to the best. I think just 2 or 4 could make all the difference to hearing impaired with or without hearing instruments. I would recommend the 2 initial points + 2 in the back corners. And maybe the one straight ahead if applicable. I like the product.
JESUS! I've been looking for that video for the last 5 years! That "Hwhat and hwhere" line has been parasiting my brain on a regular basis. Thank you youtube algorithm.
right to the friggin' point. Super informative. I know the video is 7 years old but it's really great to see a video that doesn't start with "HEY GUYS!!!!"
I love that this was filmed in a room with cardboard cutouts instead of just an actual living room lol Seriously though, great video, I don't know as much about audio as I should and I learned a lot
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I gotta say, When watching this video, I felt like an Idiot. I was thinking to myself, "Ok, I get the idea of how this works, but HOW do I find the first reflection points?!" Then I see the guy with the mirror and Im like.... "Brain, you alive there?".
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Berklee student here studying the topic- define what purpose the room is used for (ie Home Theater or Music Recording or Mastering Monitoring). You will want to design around those parameters....generally home theaters will use more diffusers than the music control rooms. But ALWAYS....diffusion on the back wall.
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Just moved into acoustic hell home. My new living room is about 2500sqft, with 30ft ceilings and a staircase to upper floor which opens another 1000sqft open area + 30ft wide balcony looking downstairs, all tile floor except upstairs. Also, I don't want to freeze at single spot, I like to walk around. It echoes like in cathedral, I even cannot understand others speech in here, music sounds rubbish of course. I have 200W stereo hi-fi which is useless now. Do you suggest to hire professional or sell this house? May be I just could cover each sqft with absorbers? Can we assume that covering every single sqft cannot go wrong?
@@DONK0 The problem is three fold. The materials you are most likely thinking of using might be toxic and not meant for room treatment but rather building insulation. Building insulation for the most part emits tiny particles in the air (even if they are wrapped in fabric) that can cause health issues. The other factor is the absorption coefficient curve. Sure, you can use them, but they might over absorb In frequencies between 125hz and 500hz where it's not that natural sounding. There are acoustic open cell foam that has a much smoother absorption coefficient curve between 125hz and 500hz that will give you the most natural sound as that range is where absorption panels differ.. The other MAJOR problem is with low frequencies under 100hz, that's the most costly to deal with, you do need lots of "boxes", especially if you are dealing with loud SPL levels of low frequencies. And just sticking them in the four corners isn't necessarily going to solve your problems. you can see how bad of a problem you have by measuring low frequencies in 10hz increments from 20hz to 100hz about every 2 to 3 feet around the perimeter of the room, and if you map out the results. you can see patterns emerge where there are room mode issues that alternate about every 2 to 3 feet and you really need to treat the entire wall for optimal results. People have to be careful not to put too big of a speaker system in small rooms, adding subs and not properly adjusting them into the system, or having too small of a room for the room usage.. Ultimately what is your goal? To have a room with a flat response curve with proper TC-60 reverb time signature? If so, then you are going to need a good sized room with relatively high ceilings to give you enough space to properly treat. Just sticking $15 panels around the room isn't going to fix the acoustic problems in the room. Will it be better than an untreated room? Sure, but it's not going to be a well treated room by sticking $15 panels around the room.. They aren't going to fix all of your problems, even though it will sound different. Don't confuse a different room sound to good room sound. I wish I could have you visit a room that's really designed and built properly with treatment that really fixes the problems in the room. The results are stunning. But it's going to cost a LOT of money to do it right. I've seen rooms that were custom built from the ground up that were truly insane room acoustics where it was pretty close to a flat response curve and a near perfect TC60 reverb time for that type of room usage for a pair of relatively large speakers. the room cost alone, sans stereo equipment, was in the neighborhood of $450,000. Yeah, to 99% of the population, that's too expensive.. to get a really good improvement that most people would be happy with, it would cost around $25K in room treatment to get a really good room sound. But it still requires a certain room size to begin with. Can you get really good room sound for under $1000 in treatment? Probably not unless you don't turn your speaker's volume up that high. It's when you turn the speaker's volume up to a certain level is when the low frequency problems start to emerge, etc. If your room is big enough where you have at least around 7' to 8' feet or more between each speaker and the closest side wall, and you keep the SPL fairly low, you can do close monitoring where you don't need room treatment, because you have enough distance between each monitor and each wall and you aren't exciting the room with low frequencies causing problems because the SPL is low enough. But that's typically not the case for MOST people.
Oneness100 Yada yada yada. Most of these expensive pre-made options aren't optimal as well. Many advertise absorbers as diffusers and vice versa. You could also use upholstery foam instead. They come in different densities. If you know what you're doing, you can get very close for a fraction of the price. It's also fun to DIY in my opinion.
Step 1: Here's a scientific reason why you should put panels here and here ... Step 6: Go ahead and put some more panels here ... Step 9: Oh look, bare wall space! Let's put more panels here
Awesome content! By chance could you do a video on a round room? Or a Yurt Shape? I am helping a friend build a Yurt recording Studio and struggling to find much information on the general acoustic response of the rooms. Thanks for any help and the great knowledge you've put out! Cheers!
I have an L shaped room on the main floor. The L is with the long part of the letter is facing East and the corner of the L, is facing west and the shorter end is facing North. If that makes any sense. The floor is wood, with some carpeting about 35% of the room. There is a chase in the corner of the L, and a small sofa along the west wall on the shorter end. There is a bay window which we had to insulate and bolt in moving blankets and hung moving blankets are hung over the window. This greatly cuts down the level going outside, but the problem sound is traveling out the front door. That is where it is the most audible from outside. I am thinking that the Auralex Sonalite panels should go in the corner where the drums are usually at. All of the absorbing material can be taken down. We plan on moving everything to the basement, but we have to wait for spring cleaning and some light remodeling first. I was thinking of spreading out the tiles 2 on the corner staggered and 2 by the front door, but I am not sure, if the absorbing material should be closer to the source?
Hi JRPowell, thanks for your question. If you’d like us to recommend placement of our Curve Diffusors and Fabric-Wrapped Absorber Panels, we’re always happy to help. If you send us a drawing of your space, complete with dimensions, we may be able to add a few ideas for you. And we also highly recommend our Door Seal Kit for any of your solid-core doors - watch our “What Is Soundproofing” video for more info on that. Thanks again, John p.p1 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 14.7px Calibri; -webkit-text-stroke: #000000} span.s1 {font-kerning: none; color: #0069d9; -webkit-text-stroke: 0px #0069d9} span.s2 {text-decoration: underline ; font-kerning: none; color: #0000ff; -webkit-text-stroke: 0px #0000ff} span.s3 {font-kerning: none}
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I have a home studio and am thinking to just use four absorbers, a couple of diffusers and a couple of bass traps, and then use Sonarworks for room correction. Then I'll take the stems to a pro studio with a mixing engineer and do the final mixes there.
Another reason to use corner horns/speakers and make sure your corner speakers have directional control to ensure no more than 90 degrees of dispersion
Will the "mirror trick" work the same for finding the reflection point with a drum set? I was thinking compared to a speaker, the sound would be more omni-directional with a drumset compared to more directed like a speaker. How would you determine optimum placement for panels for a drumset?
Drums are tricky - the sound-dispersion patterns vary, depending on whether you’re placing mics on a single drum, a cymbal, or the entire kit. As a former drummer (now a drum owner), my goals were different than when I became a recording engineer. For recording, I’ve found that Curve Diffusors are best placed vertically on walls at the points nearest the kit, and on ceilings horizontally over the cymbals, obviously depending on where mics are placed. Best positioning for absorber panels would be in any corners near the kit (on each corner wall), directly over the snare drum on the ceiling, and next to the Curve Diffusors toward the outside of the kit. The great thing about our Z-Clip-mounted panels, both absorbers and diffusors, is that they’re modular and can be moved easily to try different placements. Some studios even use our Combo Stands to easily relocate the Curves on the studio floor, depending on the type of drummer and kit. I hope this helps - let us know if you find any “best panel placements” - and thanks for your question! -John Calder
Planer speakers have more of a 'figure eight' sound dispersion pattern with the top and bottom of the ones firing straight - back and front. Do you plan to produce videos or other resources that show panel placement for these in addition to the box speakers you feature in current videos?
I have a couple 100 pound dogs, things get very dusty and dirty fast. I want to avoid foam and fabric that will become disgusting allergen traps. What are my treatment options?
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Make sure u also watch the other video from the same maker, how sound works. It explains in a very simple way how sound works and why the sound is no good without some treatment.
My house is 150 years old with floor boards that if stepped on in the right spot, at the right time, after you had a shitty day at work, will send what, on my end at least, sounds like I just dropped a bowling ball. The walls are also paper-thin and may not be familiar with insulation. All I'm trying to do is muffle the some bass from my TV and computer speakers, foot steps, and the opening and closing of drawer, making it as inaudible as possible from my parents room on the other side of a wall which is, when said activities take place, 6-18 ft away. I'd like to bless my parents with the illusion that I've moved out. Will these do the trick? (The asshole floor board is at a precise spot in my room and to be avoided, casual stepping only emits a minor vibration)
Nice video. And I really enjoyed the "How Sound Works (in a room)" video too. But I don't understand why there is so much echo in the sound as captured by the camera even after room treatment here. Obviously, John Calder and the mic are not "ideally" placed relative to the panels. But at least, wouldn't all those diffusers and absorbers scattered in the room have *reduced* that effect ? As a last question, could someone elaborate a little why diffusers are/can be a better option than absorbers in the primary reflection point ? Is this only an advice for restitution environment, or this can be considered too in a recording or mixing room ?
Having diffuser at the main reflection point will diffuse and reflect the sound waves in a much more dispersed manner, which means standing waves can't build up as easy, and has the same perceivable effect of absorption. A diffuser on first reflection point would be a good solution for a room that does not need too much treatment, as dispersing the initial reflections might be all the room needs. Otherwise a diffuser on first reflection in a bad room with lots of reflections to begin with, it just complicate the reverberation. This is why absorption on first reflection is important to try and reduce the overall room reflections.
Technically, we weren't shown the entire room. There was a 3D model of a whole room, but the actual studio may not have had a ceiling or a complete 3rd wall.
OK I have a question. I am putting a home studio in the front office of our home. I am a lifelong musician and I think that this is a great video. So my question is… Couldn’t I just Cover the ceiling and walls with acoustic foam and be done with it? Lol! I have a very good budget to work with.The company foam factory has very reasonable prices. I run a teaching studio in a building near my home. I did this and it sounds great. I can’t use it for recording because it is too close to the damn train tracks. Suggestions? Thank you in advance.:)
How about hard to hear (they're loud enough but not discernible at times) vocals - what is the most minimalist thing I can do to try and improve on vocals? Is there a common issue that I should investigate first? I have a decent set-up I think - Bowers and Wilkins in wall speakers, Rythmik subwoofer.
Thank you for the video. I have a question: Shouldn't you cover every single wall entirely? or just making a few frames, is enough to absorb any unwanted reverb?
Hi - thanks for your question. Three points: 1) You want to retain some of the room’s natural ambience, so removing all reflections/reverberation creates an anechoic chamber, which is an extremely difficult sound environment for humans; 2)All sound absorber panels have a limited range of frequencies they can absorb - most fiber-based absorbers (fiberglass, recycled cotton, wood/mineral fibers) absorb well at high frequencies but not well at mid- and low-frequencies. This creates an imbalance in the sound in the room. 3) We always recommend a balance of absorber and diffusor panels in a room, because it reduces echoes and reverberation and spreads out the remaining sound energy so the room feels more natural.
They scatter reflections so they take longer to get back to the listening position, getting there at a lower energy level. It makes the room sound bigger, and reduces the comb filtering caused by early reflections.
This is so funny, ok it makes total sense if you're a musician and you are trying to fix a room that you record in...but if you're trying to do this in the living room, this is nuts. The panels were practically everywhere! that's too impractical for common use. But thank you, I did learn something...take care of the "first reflection point". I record UA-cam videos and I was trying to decide where I should out absorbers, it looks like OPPOSITE of me speaking (the other side of the room) is the best spot because that's where my voice would echo from. Thanks
I have a room with just a drumset in the basement and the sound is really bad ... how do i make it sound better? When i play,it fells so loud and the sound is really bad.. could u help me?
I have polyurethane foam laying around...its the material that old couches or caravan beds and couches use....its is 11cm in thickness...do you think it will make a good acoustic panel for my caravan studio?? I cant find info about this in the internet sadly!
EnBeez the EmCee Ricocheting bullets to bounce off the assistants head! The nerf method is easily the best method. Let's hope he doesn't find out that there's another way.
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Even if they are trying to sell something, which is not a bad thing, this video does a great job explaining everything you really need to know in under 5 minutes. Good video.
The echo of his speech did not diminish
@@BojanMarusic The point of treatment isn't creating a dead room or a room for voice over.
The point of that room is to remove problem areas from the speakers to your ears.
A dead room is terrible for good sound.
@geluidsoverlast Not really. You will make your room too dead which is not something you want. You will just waste your money just like on foam.
Better to do it correct the first time and in a lot of cases, rockwool is much cheaper than the thickness you'll need with curtains. (30 euros (40 USD) a pack of 8.)
Also a positive thing is that the rockwool acoustic panel designs will stay with you your entire life, making it convenient when switching places or situations.
@geluidsoverlast You are joking right?
I don't think it does. the curved piece is not a diffusor, it's a redirector and it's not really diffusing the sound like a Quadratic Diffusor. Plus, why would you want sound to be pointed downwards and upwards due to the orientation of the device?
I have never seen a video, this one included, that's going to be able to cover everything you need to know in 5 minutes. Acoustic treatment, acoustics, etc. is NOT something you can learn in 5 minutes or less. Too much to consider.
I will suggest going to another site that discusses things in easy to understand terminology, but addresses a lot of myths, misconceptions about room treatment and goes after what the problems are and how to really address them.
My wife will really love this decor !
vidya sankar 😂😂😂
I was thinking the same. But I'm the one looking for answers. Lol. I'm like I can do curved paintings use great geometric patterns.
Or just put carpets in. Lol..
Audio > Marrying. Not bad to be autistic sometimes 🤣
Yep marriage and Acoustic, difficult bedfellows
I thought this was overkill for improving sound BUT when I had my Christmas tree in my listening room in about the spot where one would but a defusier it was a real difference in the sound quality and experience .
One of the Best Ideas of SoundProofing is "SoundProof Curtains" it actually Block outside Noise coming from Windows. Check Here: livesoundproof.com/best-soundproof-curtains/
Step 1, put our panels absolutely everywhere
Step 2, repeat step 1
$$$$$$ racket
@@a.b1266 The bigger racket is selling crappy panels that don't use the right materials and designs and not putting them in the right position.
There are a lot of companies that use the wrong materials. Or they call something a "diffusor" or "bass trap" that don't really do what the name insinuates, thusmaking it more expensive because if you treat with the wrong products, it costs even more to replace them with better products that actually fix the problems in the room. this video is very basic and there's a lot more to deal with in order to treat the room.
@geluidsoverlast yeah, right. What's the absorption coefficient of carpet or thick curtains for 125hz to 500hz?
@@dd-vm1hs Um. Heavy drapes, towels, woven carpets are NOT sound diffusion materials.
They are sound absorption materials, but unless you know their respective absorption coefficients, you are kind of flying blind. only people on extreme budget constraints would opt for the El Cheapo route, but the results simply will reflect your choices made. They aren't designed for room treatment. in a pinch with no budget, sure, but if you someone that works in your environment as a recording engineer or a serious listener of music with an expensive system, it's not optimal to use drapes, towels or woven carpets.
I know for a fact that used thick carpets are HORRIBLE for acoustic treatment. Back when I was a teenager in the 70's, playing in a local band, we lined our practice room with thick carpet and it sounded like total garbage.. I wouldn't recommend it at all.
@@dd-vm1hs well, I would like to see an indepedent study of what you're talking about compared to a specific brand of acoustic foam that has been tested with the same testing lab, so if you want to construct some type of acoustic panel and send it off to RAL (Alion) if the mfg. used them to derive their tests, if they used another testing lab, then send off your panels to that testing lab, go right ahead and let's compare the results. That's the only real way to compare two products. Same tests performed in the same independent testing lab.
Here's a graph of various materials (acoustic foam not listed by any particular brand along with Sonnex) and look at the varying absorption coefficients. Here's one website that has testing different types of drapery, carpet. I don't know who the testing lab was, but they have results posted with a lot of other materials, Acoustic Fields does have their test results posted on their acoustic foam for comparison purposes. So please examine the 125hz to 500hz range as that's where you are going to find the biggest differences. www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-RT60Coeff.htm
They do have Sonnex foam listed, but not Acoustic Fields. But you can compare AF's foam from their website data as they do have it posted somewhere..
Proof is in the measurements. I'm sure the carpet, and drapes they measured might not be the exact same as what you might use, but they might be VERY similar...
hwhat and hwhere
François would you like some cool hhhwhip?
LMFAO
hwhatever dude
kuul whip
Titanium hwhite
if only rooms were that conveniently shaped...
Yeah, I really want a square room.
Kevin Sørensen you don’t want a square room. It’s better to have a rectangular shaped room
A rectangle is also a square
Kevin Sørensen
nope, it's the other way around. a square is a rectangle, but not all rectangles are squares.
I wish my room was a trapezoid
I got myself a new hobby, quilting. I make mostly 40 x 60 in quilts, cotton top, flannel batting in the middle and cotton backing. The sound in my music room improved tremendously.
I have sewn some basic quilts. Have been considering painting some canvas and adding padding underneath for decor and sound reduction.
A short, understandable briefing on essential acoustical improvements. John Calder knows how to explain things properly, thanks for that.
0:15 “Huat and huere”... Best part of the video, I don’t need anything else
He spent so much on panels he had to edit in speakers
Bruhh 🤣🤣🤣🤦♂️
did you see those speakers he picked out, they use mock 2 vacuum tubes those are really dated and have poor quality by modern standards, also those speakers use baby baby seal pelts and are assembled by children. and he is using sound max brand not sound top sound brand, I don't like that. All of these things reflect on his company and knowledge. gone are the days when this not-c collaborator can simply present his product in a neutral manner with a "I just want to sell acoustic panels." every business should find it's customer niche and take a stand on important issues to that customer base and only sell to that customer base or they will soon find them self with no friends at all. where do you stand? is that how business should be? He picked trying just trying sell the panels and not get in to the weeds. he made his choice. It is the start of 2021 you likely find all this ridiculous. What did you find ridiculous at the start of 2020, The new normal and cultural revolution is not over. I will be in reeducation camp for telling you. you have no idea how bad it can get, look at history not just the propaganda history really dig for the actual history. doctors will be forced to become farmers and farmers will be forced to become doctors, that actually happened, the country starved and was sick because of it.
@@Amipotsophspond what? 😂😂😂
@@Amipotsophspondcan you recommend a video?
It's probably worth mentioning that some experimentation should be employed here. I understand this is meant as a brief overview but yeah. Getting a microphone specifically designed to analyze your rooms acoustic signature and some software to disiminate that information (Room EQ Wizard is a wonderful tool and it's free) will pay dividends when deciding on the placement of your panels and diffusers.
If you're going to do it, do it right. I find it also helps, as a mixing engineer, to know exactly where in the frequency spectrum, the issues in your room lie. Helps to avoid certain mistakes when navigating a mix. For example, I know not to fret too much over a lack of bass in the 80-100hz range because I can see on my graph that my room has a reasonably deep null there.
This is the best acoustic treatment video for the fundamental understanding for a layman.
No, it's pretty terrible. It doesn't really address how anything works, it just tells you to do things.
@@seigeengine And in a few cases, how to do them wrong. It also doesn't address use case: Is this a low-budget home theatre? Listening room? Mixing room?
If you want a better understanding of how sound waves behave then I suggest taking a trip down to the beach and study how sea waves behave when they hit an obstruction. A strong sea wave will reflect back off a flat sea wall but against other protruding obstructions the wave will often split into two or more waves, each new wave carrying less energy than the original. A sea wave hitting a group of rocks will be broken up into many more higher frequency but lower energy waves. Higher frequency (but lower energy) sea waves can even be absorbed by dense mats of sea weed. Sound absorbing materials (earthwool, foam, rubber etc.) are performing the same role on sound waves as the beach obstructions are performing on sea waves. Sound waves are of course travelling much faster than sea waves at about 340m per second. So a single sound source will be received by your ear many times in a room due to reflections until it is absorbed by materals in the room. As with sea waves, each reflection off a room obstruction will often split the originating wave into one or more new sound waves. The lower the frequency of the originating sound wave, the more reflections it takes before it is all absorbed (because more energy is stored in each lower frequency wave than a single higher frequency waves). Since they contain more energy in a single wave, lower frequency waves travel further, a characteristic that whales and elephants use in communication over long distances.
Save yourself the trip to the ocean and read a book...
Excellent example. Thank you for sharing.
Paul Chabot
Or use google/youtube...
Thanks for taking the time to share these interesting thoughts.
You can do it in home by having some water in the round bucket and dropping pebbles or stones in it. I used this to study Huygens wavelets, that big wave and small wave stuff. Always remember Transverse waves differ from Longitudinal waves in Nature, especially refraction and reflection, Free end vs Fixed end.
Even so famous acoustic companies lack this type of videos... So much to learn from this single video.. Or is it the only video discussing placement in entire YT😂
listening to this man cured my depression
best video for acoustic treatment i've watched so far.
Very interesting video. On an relative easy way to understand by everybody, you explain the basis of acoustic treatment beginning with the difference between absorber and diffuser panels and where to install them correctly. Many thanks for this: I've learned many things in a very short time. :-)
I think they when from basic to the best.
I think just 2 or 4 could make all the difference to hearing impaired with or without hearing instruments.
I would recommend the 2 initial points + 2 in the back corners. And maybe the one straight ahead if applicable.
I like the product.
Finally able to hit my back wall when I'm sounding. Thanks for this video!
JESUS! I've been looking for that video for the last 5 years! That "Hwhat and hwhere" line has been parasiting my brain on a regular basis. Thank you youtube algorithm.
Now good luck with your bank account. This stuff is quite pricey
right to the friggin' point. Super informative.
I know the video is 7 years old but it's really great to see a video that doesn't start with "HEY GUYS!!!!"
Out of the hundreds of soundproofing videos on UA-cam, this is the only one I’ve seen that actually uses intelligently applied science.
Just went to their website. Their stuff is really expensive.
I love that this was filmed in a room with cardboard cutouts instead of just an actual living room lol
Seriously though, great video, I don't know as much about audio as I should and I learned a lot
Great explanation
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No way its Stephan Wisner!
Two more and you have a padded room.
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Nah.. but wait there’s more… they throw in a straight jacket with the purchase of only 2 more to complete your padded room experience!
I gotta say, When watching this video, I felt like an Idiot.
I was thinking to myself, "Ok, I get the idea of how this works, but HOW do I find the first reflection points?!"
Then I see the guy with the mirror and Im like.... "Brain, you alive there?".
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Finally a video that explains where to put these things.
Hope this guy is doing fine! This is helping me with my review. Kudos!
Just fill up your room with junk. My house has got fantastic acoustics because it's so cluttered.
Berklee student here studying the topic- define what purpose the room is used for (ie Home Theater or Music Recording or Mastering Monitoring). You will want to design around those parameters....generally home theaters will use more diffusers than the music control rooms. But ALWAYS....diffusion on the back wall.
100%
Best most simple video on acoustics, it's what I was looking for. Thank you.
0:50 is absolutely classic!
It seems to get funnier with each viewing.
Thanks for posting ;)
Saint Germain a
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What about the ceiling if you have Dolby Atmos-enabled speakers?
Say "Cool Whip"...
thank you, this is so darn helpful!.
LOL noticed it straight away and searched the comments to see if anyone else did xD
cool whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip
didn't have to scroll far to find this comment lmaooo
Did someone say Cool Hwhip?
Arent you lucky, i spent half an hour reading intelligence battles to get here 😂
You should credit the Blue's Clues team for borrowing their home theatre set.
Stumbled upon your site. Love the demonstrations.
Just moved into acoustic hell home. My new living room is about 2500sqft, with 30ft ceilings and a staircase to upper floor which opens another 1000sqft open area + 30ft wide balcony looking downstairs, all tile floor except upstairs. Also, I don't want to freeze at single spot, I like to walk around. It echoes like in cathedral, I even cannot understand others speech in here, music sounds rubbish of course. I have 200W stereo hi-fi which is useless now. Do you suggest to hire professional or sell this house? May be I just could cover each sqft with absorbers? Can we assume that covering every single sqft cannot go wrong?
$100000000 dollars later you can have great sound in one room
😊 - and they look awful.
@@chilombe Only if you have no skilz....
@@DONK0 But will they be Phase Coherent! :P
@@DONK0 The problem is three fold. The materials you are most likely thinking of using might be toxic and not meant for room treatment but rather building insulation. Building insulation for the most part emits tiny particles in the air (even if they are wrapped in fabric) that can cause health issues. The other factor is the absorption coefficient curve. Sure, you can use them, but they might over absorb In frequencies between 125hz and 500hz where it's not that natural sounding. There are acoustic open cell foam that has a much smoother absorption coefficient curve between 125hz and 500hz that will give you the most natural sound as that range is where absorption panels differ..
The other MAJOR problem is with low frequencies under 100hz, that's the most costly to deal with, you do need lots of "boxes", especially if you are dealing with loud SPL levels of low frequencies. And just sticking them in the four corners isn't necessarily going to solve your problems. you can see how bad of a problem you have by measuring low frequencies in 10hz increments from 20hz to 100hz about every 2 to 3 feet around the perimeter of the room, and if you map out the results. you can see patterns emerge where there are room mode issues that alternate about every 2 to 3 feet and you really need to treat the entire wall for optimal results.
People have to be careful not to put too big of a speaker system in small rooms, adding subs and not properly adjusting them into the system, or having too small of a room for the room usage..
Ultimately what is your goal? To have a room with a flat response curve with proper TC-60 reverb time signature? If so, then you are going to need a good sized room with relatively high ceilings to give you enough space to properly treat.
Just sticking $15 panels around the room isn't going to fix the acoustic problems in the room. Will it be better than an untreated room? Sure, but it's not going to be a well treated room by sticking $15 panels around the room.. They aren't going to fix all of your problems, even though it will sound different. Don't confuse a different room sound to good room sound.
I wish I could have you visit a room that's really designed and built properly with treatment that really fixes the problems in the room. The results are stunning. But it's going to cost a LOT of money to do it right. I've seen rooms that were custom built from the ground up that were truly insane room acoustics where it was pretty close to a flat response curve and a near perfect TC60 reverb time for that type of room usage for a pair of relatively large speakers. the room cost alone, sans stereo equipment, was in the neighborhood of $450,000. Yeah, to 99% of the population, that's too expensive.. to get a really good improvement that most people would be happy with, it would cost around $25K in room treatment to get a really good room sound. But it still requires a certain room size to begin with.
Can you get really good room sound for under $1000 in treatment? Probably not unless you don't turn your speaker's volume up that high. It's when you turn the speaker's volume up to a certain level is when the low frequency problems start to emerge, etc.
If your room is big enough where you have at least around 7' to 8' feet or more between each speaker and the closest side wall, and you keep the SPL fairly low, you can do close monitoring where you don't need room treatment, because you have enough distance between each monitor and each wall and you aren't exciting the room with low frequencies causing problems because the SPL is low enough. But that's typically not the case for MOST people.
Oneness100
Yada yada yada. Most of these expensive pre-made options aren't optimal as well. Many advertise absorbers as diffusers and vice versa. You could also use upholstery foam instead. They come in different densities. If you know what you're doing, you can get very close for a fraction of the price. It's also fun to DIY in my opinion.
Finally... the perfect UA-cam video
i've been reading, and it's complicated. Your video is so very helpful.
Step 1: Here's a scientific reason why you should put panels here and here
...
Step 6: Go ahead and put some more panels here
...
Step 9: Oh look, bare wall space! Let's put more panels here
Awesome content! By chance could you do a video on a round room? Or a Yurt Shape? I am helping a friend build a Yurt recording Studio and struggling to find much information on the general acoustic response of the rooms. Thanks for any help and the great knowledge you've put out! Cheers!
cool whip?
You don't need to cover every square foot... What you showed comes pretty close, once you factor in door and windows openings...
".... and it fits with the TV." Priceless
When using the mirror, should your speakers be facing straight forward or diagonal in towards listener at the seat?
I have an L shaped room on the main floor. The L is with the long part of the letter is facing East and the corner of the L, is facing west and the shorter end is facing North. If that makes any sense. The floor is wood, with some carpeting about 35% of the room. There is a chase in the corner of the L, and a small sofa along the west wall on the shorter end. There is a bay window which we had to insulate and bolt in moving blankets and hung moving blankets are hung over the window. This greatly cuts down the level going outside, but the problem sound is traveling out the front door. That is where it is the most audible from outside. I am thinking that the Auralex Sonalite panels should go in the corner where the drums are usually at. All of the absorbing material can be taken down. We plan on moving everything to the basement, but we have to wait for spring cleaning and some light remodeling first. I was thinking of spreading out the tiles 2 on the corner staggered and 2 by the front door, but I am not sure, if the absorbing material should be closer to the source?
Hi JRPowell, thanks for your question. If you’d like us to recommend placement of our Curve Diffusors and Fabric-Wrapped Absorber
Panels, we’re always happy to help. If you send us a drawing of your space, complete with dimensions, we may be able to add a few ideas for you. And we also highly recommend our Door Seal Kit for any of your solid-core doors - watch our “What Is Soundproofing” video for more info on that.
Thanks again,
John
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I see that you used both absorbers and corner traps in your corners. Why not just the corner traps though?
Corner traps are good for stopping the bass reflections when down low, but not so much for the higher frequencies.
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@@666Eidolon666 Depends how they are constructed. If they don't have scatter plates or something to reflect high frequencies, they'll grab those too.
Subscribed, thanks for the detail and science behind this!
I'm curious about large rooms like warehouses and sport arenas where the sound doesn't come from only one spot
Just learned a ton in 3 mins & 35 secs.Wow !
I have a home studio and am thinking to just use four absorbers, a couple of diffusers and a couple of bass traps, and then use Sonarworks for room correction. Then I'll take the stems to a pro studio with a mixing engineer and do the final mixes there.
Another reason to use corner horns/speakers and make sure your corner speakers have directional control to ensure no more than 90 degrees of dispersion
Your channel is the holy grail sr thanks 4 existing 👽🤘
Where along the wall? I can take the mirror and run along the wall and see the speaker from any location.
The deep irony is that the music bumper they use has all sorts of phase coherence nastiness going on.
This guy is a boss
A couch and a rug with curtains is all most people need.
Will the "mirror trick" work the same for finding the reflection point with a drum set? I was thinking compared to a speaker, the sound would be more omni-directional with a drumset compared to more directed like a speaker. How would you determine optimum placement for panels for a drumset?
Drums are tricky - the sound-dispersion patterns vary, depending on whether you’re placing mics on a single drum, a cymbal, or the entire kit. As a former drummer (now a drum owner), my goals were different than when I became a recording engineer. For recording, I’ve found that Curve Diffusors are best placed vertically on walls at the points nearest the kit, and on ceilings horizontally over the cymbals, obviously depending on where mics are placed. Best positioning for absorber panels would be in any corners near the kit (on each corner wall), directly over the snare drum on the ceiling, and next to the Curve Diffusors toward the outside of the kit.
The great thing about our Z-Clip-mounted panels, both absorbers and diffusors, is that they’re modular and can be moved easily to try different placements. Some studios even use our Combo Stands to easily relocate the Curves on the studio floor, depending on the type of drummer and kit.
I hope this helps - let us know if you find any “best panel placements” - and thanks for your question!
-John Calder
Planer speakers have more of a 'figure eight' sound dispersion pattern with the top and bottom of the ones firing straight - back and front. Do you plan to produce videos or other resources that show panel placement for these in addition to the box speakers you feature in current videos?
0:07 He walked in with some serious swagger
Outstanding informational video.
Will the absorber reduce the sound coming through the wall from the apartment next door?
Any videos describing binary diffusers and when/where to use them?
How do you account for the fact that they look hideous in your well-furnished living room?
I have a couple 100 pound dogs, things get very dusty and dirty fast. I want to avoid foam and fabric that will become disgusting allergen traps. What are my treatment options?
OK, I've done all that but now I can't afford a hi-fi or TV 😢
How many panels of each type do we need in case of 7.1 audio system and what principles of placing to apply?
That’s a lot of panels. Might as well make all walls and ceilings and floors from that material
tompparaideri You’re not wrong lol 😆
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Best video about this topic!
That was surprisingly good
thank you very much!
Make sure u also watch the other video from the same maker, how sound works. It explains in a very simple way how sound works and why the sound is no good without some treatment.
My house is 150 years old with floor boards that if stepped on in the right spot, at the right time, after you had a shitty day at work, will send what, on my end at least, sounds like I just dropped a bowling ball. The walls are also paper-thin and may not be familiar with insulation. All I'm trying to do is muffle the some bass from my TV and computer speakers, foot steps, and the opening and closing of drawer, making it as inaudible as possible from my parents room on the other side of a wall which is, when said activities take place, 6-18 ft away. I'd like to bless my parents with the illusion that I've moved out. Will these do the trick? (The asshole floor board is at a precise spot in my room and to be avoided, casual stepping only emits a minor vibration)
Wooow, great explanation
Can you fix a problem with such material I don't have enough room for my rear ported speakers I can't get more than 6 inches from the wall
Im a bit lost are the diffusers naturally grown or man made ,i must admit you just can't tell and they dont make alot of noise
actually the first deflection point is directly behind the speaker!?
Nice video. And I really enjoyed the "How Sound Works (in a room)" video too.
But I don't understand why there is so much echo in the sound as captured by the camera even after room treatment here. Obviously, John Calder and the mic are not "ideally" placed relative to the panels. But at least, wouldn't all those diffusers and absorbers scattered in the room have *reduced* that effect ?
As a last question, could someone elaborate a little why diffusers are/can be a better option than absorbers in the primary reflection point ? Is this only an advice for restitution environment, or this can be considered too in a recording or mixing room ?
Having diffuser at the main reflection point will diffuse and reflect the sound waves in a much more dispersed manner, which means standing waves can't build up as easy, and has the same perceivable effect of absorption.
A diffuser on first reflection point would be a good solution for a room that does not need too much treatment, as dispersing the initial reflections might be all the room needs.
Otherwise a diffuser on first reflection in a bad room with lots of reflections to begin with, it just complicate the reverberation. This is why absorption on first reflection is important to try and reduce the overall room reflections.
Technically, we weren't shown the entire room. There was a 3D model of a whole room, but the actual studio may not have had a ceiling or a complete 3rd wall.
OK I have a question. I am putting a home studio in the front office of our home. I am a lifelong musician and I think that this is a great video.
So my question is… Couldn’t I just Cover the ceiling and walls with acoustic foam and be done with it? Lol! I have a very good budget to work with.The company foam factory has very reasonable prices. I run a teaching studio in a building near my home. I did this and it sounds great. I can’t use it for recording because it is too close to the damn train tracks. Suggestions? Thank you in advance.:)
Very good video!
Nice tips.
How about hard to hear (they're loud enough but not discernible at times) vocals - what is the most minimalist thing I can do to try and improve on vocals? Is there a common issue that I should investigate first? I have a decent set-up I think - Bowers and Wilkins in wall speakers, Rythmik subwoofer.
Oh - it's a 2.1 set up - I could go 5.1 if that would help vocals for some reason.
lovely
Thank you for the video. I have a question: Shouldn't you cover every single wall entirely? or just making a few frames, is enough to absorb any unwanted reverb?
Hi - thanks for your question. Three points:
1) You want to retain some of the room’s natural ambience, so removing all reflections/reverberation creates an anechoic chamber, which is an extremely difficult sound environment for humans;
2)All sound absorber panels have a limited range of frequencies they can absorb - most fiber-based absorbers (fiberglass, recycled cotton, wood/mineral fibers) absorb well at high frequencies but not well at mid- and low-frequencies. This creates an imbalance in the sound in the room.
3) We always recommend a balance of absorber and diffusor panels in a room, because it reduces echoes and reverberation and spreads out the remaining sound energy so the room feels more natural.
Acoustic Geometry thank you so much for detailed answer
Great information, thank alot
Really helpful video! I cried laughing at :49 in the video - pure gold!!
What's the purpose of diffusers exactly? They don't absorb reflection as absorbers. How do they enhance acoustics exactly?
They scatter reflections so they take longer to get back to the listening position, getting there at a lower energy level. It makes the room sound bigger, and reduces the comb filtering caused by early reflections.
This is so funny, ok it makes total sense if you're a musician and you are trying to fix a room that you record in...but if you're trying to do this in the living room, this is nuts. The panels were practically everywhere! that's too impractical for common use. But thank you, I did learn something...take care of the "first reflection point". I record UA-cam videos and I was trying to decide where I should out absorbers, it looks like OPPOSITE of me speaking (the other side of the room) is the best spot because that's where my voice would echo from. Thanks
If I purchased a room pack could I cover it with different colored fabric? I don't like the color options given.
Very educational !
I have a room with just a drumset in the basement and the sound is really bad ... how do i make it sound better? When i play,it fells so loud and the sound is really bad.. could u help me?
Will this helps for noisy neighbors upstairs?
At what height should panels be mounted on the walls.
I have polyurethane foam laying around...its the material that old couches or caravan beds and couches use....its is 11cm in thickness...do you think it will make a good acoustic panel for my caravan studio?? I cant find info about this in the internet sadly!
Are you allowed to put these in picture frames, the look of it is amazing and i just wondered if that affects it at all... Thanks in advance :)
I have a question that might be really dumb, but can I stick posters in the panels so it looks cooler lol?
So how does this apply for ASMR channels?
What about speakers like klilsch chorus 2 that have a passive radiator on the back... We need the corners to made them sound deeper..
When he pulled that nerf gun I was HOWLING! Informative video though thank you
:) Thanks for watching!
EnBeez the EmCee Ricocheting bullets to bounce off the assistants head! The nerf method is easily the best method. Let's hope he doesn't find out that there's another way.
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