I like that DE understands that they’ve power crept exalted weapons enough to know that they needed to give Noctua ridiculously high power scaling to base dmg but not enough to just give us arcane slots on exalted weapons
@@khaleelwilson2315 the issue with the acolyte mods is they require aiming(not all exalted weapons aim) and the other condition is either kills(this is usable), reload(I don't think any exalted weapon reloads), or after casting(which would increase the energy cost of these abilities as you would either need to spam another ability or spam turning on and off the exalted). The mele mods would be neat to reintroduce.
these dante nerfs make me sad in the way the "styanax isn't allowed to fly" nerf did. it literally was hurting no one and was very fun to play, but they nerfed it anyway.
Tragedy is absolutely still worth going all in on. Got him 2 days ago, spent today doing 5 formas and walked into a 1hr Mot SP Survival solo firing no weapons and it was mind-bogglingly cosy. Had Roar over the 1, and a Hound for Viral sparks and nothing except the Acolytes survived a Tragedy cast. 70m was nice but 45m is absolutely fine.
@@KaFullah basically his 4th ability has 4 versions, of which Tragedy is only one. Qhich version you get depends on how you have casted his 2nd and 3rd ability. Look at the bottom right UI and you see the book? When you cast 2, you will see a "Light" page added to the book right side of the book. When you cast 3 it will add a "Dark" page to the right side of the book. If the right page is already filled, that page will move to the left and be replaced by the new page. That gives you 4 combinations for the 4th ability: Right Page Light, Left Page Light Right Page Dark, Left Page Light Right Page Light, Left Page Dark Right Page Dark, Left Page Dark Tragedy is the last version, both pages dark, or by casting 4 after casting 3 twice without casting 2 between.
@@KaFullah Noctua is its own ability so doesn't affect how you cast the others, but modding Noctua for Viral will enhance the Slash from Dark Verse and Tragedy, and Tragedy will also cash in and multiply any Heat, Slash or Electric procs your Noctua applies as well.
I did a 1 hour mot survival arb last night with him. Team was a boosted Mirage (91% of our damage because jesus christ), another Dante, and a Rhino. We consistently had like 90k Overguard up, multiple birds flying around, everyone had books, and those Tragedy booms were still nuking rooms at 1 hour in. We only stopped because a couple of teammates had to get some sleep.
Gotta say the nerf really rubs me the wrong way. Some people cried on the forums and it lead to *huge* changes that absolutely gut how the frame feels to play. Sure you can use his exalted weapon, but he was shown off as a caster frame. I wanna be a wizard not a gun slinger
It doesn't gut him. You can play him the same way, you just can't stare at a wall and kill enemies before they see you. That's all that was lost. You don't have to use Noctua at all if you don't want to
@@owendawg1 You couldn't kill through walls before anyway unless you were playing on hydron or some similarly low level mission, ***or*** you hit them with your 3 or some other primer beforehand. How is this different than like 1/4th the roster? Does his 4 kill things? Yes. Does it feel significantly worse to have 3 separate LoS checks to get damage from an ability in a high mobility game? Also yes. I didn't say that they gutted the frame, I said that they gutted how he felt.
@@blank5237 The only time i've seen his tragedy kill something at level cap was when it was *heavily* primed by outside sources. Don't act like it's a single 3 3 4 combo to do that lol.
Dante was definitely over tuned. He was super tanky, had very strong damage, was nuking enemies through wall, and had very good team support. U could nuke steel path just with dark verse, and dante was also very easy to get. The only thing i dont get is why they nerfed him so fast
100% agree that it made no sense they would nerf these things. As you said, they cite three criteria they look at to determine whether something needs a nerf: Dominance. Is NOT using this item widely considered a bad decision? Example: AoE weapons before their nerfs. Disruption: Is using this item disruptive to what other players are doing? This one could warrant a nerf, buff, or change, but is still a possible marker. Example: Overguard ruining rage-based builds. Automation: Is this item enabling players to complete objectives without actually doing anything? Example: Wukong's clone. It had been a week; it was not dominant in any way. It wasn't enabling automation without some sort of hotkey scripting, which isn't allowed. The only argument WAS for the overguard being given to teammates being disruptive. But they didn't even look at that in the first patch/nerf, and only followed up on it after re-buffing him. These buffs were entirely emotionally driven by forum thread screechers, not objective or data driven as they supposedly ascribe to. This lapse in process is a major question of judgement and reduction in trust for nerfs in the future. Hopefully they go back to having a more careful hand in the future.
@@CS0723 Dark verse was (still is btw) a cone shaped ability limited by range and LoS so sure with good positioning you could hit anything and everything but then again we have Saryn killing enemies 3 tilesets away or Octavia teabaging her way to victory. If nuking low level maps was a concern then remove or heavily reduce the base damage from Tragedy and slightly increase the scaling for status effects to compensate.
@@DalanorTheLlama Well Saryn shouldn't exist the way she does. IDK why someone would load up a shooter with such a huge range of guns and frames only to pick saryn, stand in the middle of a room and AFK
@invoidker1049 the problem was the way overguard interacted with rage. That's not specifically a dante or styanax issue, that's like a game dev issue. I guess it got enough attention now to change the way overguard works because of the (assumingly) much higher rate of play for dante
The nerf really just doesn't make any sense to me. Did he get nerfed because he has crazy map nuking potential? If so, Saryn and a couple other frames can already do that. Did he get nerfed because he can give himself and allies effective invincibility? Revenant can already do that, Kullervo can already do that to himself. Is it because he can do both of those at once? If that was the case, Nezha can do both with his new Divine Spear augment. I understand wanting to prevent power creep, but he wasn't even allowed to exist in his old state for long enough to decide if he was actually moving the needle in terms of the meta.
Saryn nuking? Nuking what? Lvl 30s on Hydron? xddd Saryn is best used as a weapons platform. Equinox can't spam it like Dante could, has to charge up the big boi numbers first. Mesa struggles without an armor strip. So what frames are exactly nuking? There is no SP nuke that was the same low effort as 3 button presses.
@@proximityclockworkx1572 o.O Saryn doesn't nuke? Dafuq? She massacres every thing what're you on about? She requires a mix of abilities and weapons but that doesn't change the fact that if they thought Dante's aoe was too good then they should by that logic be nerfing her too.
I hate when devs double down on their nerfs and spend so much dev time trying to monkey's paw the situation into something barely better. For once I wish a studio would just listen to the outcry and simply revert the changes and take the L
@@vrirax8211would be funny to see you crying if they treated your fav frames like this. Before you even try to prove a point I have many builds stronger and easier to use than Dante, who now have even greater influence than him. BS changes while other similar frames exist. Dante is still strong but other frames outclass him, with far more automated play styles.
Homely I just don't get it. Was it about low level nuking? They could've just removed the base damage of his 4 so that you *needed* to tag enemies with his 3, which was already LoS. Side note: you can use seismic bond on a sentinel with helstrum to increase your efficiency as long as you have noctua equipped and out.
Adding to what u said, u can take advantage of not only that, but any bonus that's active while channeling abilities, like for example mIter incarnon's fire rate buff, and iirc there are many incarnon buff that have that restriction too.
I still build all in on his 4. It's still very doable. Noctua is very useful when you just toss every invocation + the armor strip canticle + multishot/fire rate on it. Fixes his energy economy by granting 60% efficiency and energy regen. Tragedy still does an incredible amount of damage and AoE when you have the birds up. It's not as good or as easy as it used to be, but I personally find it to be a more engaging playstyle. "Priming" enemies with 30+ slash procs from noctua/wordwarden/owls, getting a ton of ability stats from the alt fire, and cashing in with tragedy is VERY fun to me. Moreso than spamming 334 pre nerf. Like I don't think the nerf was necessary or warranted, but I think Dante came out the other side a more fun frame. Not better, but I enjoy playing him more.
IDK what the fuck you're talking about with "spamming 334 pre nerf" That's exactly what the nerf turned tragedy into. Pre nerf, there was a payoff to thoughtful application of dark verse before tragedy. Now, you may as well just spam 334 in that order without thinking about it. Now, the more effort you spend priming, the less return on investment you get because enemies can become obscured over time. And there was nothing stopping you from playing the way you're describing pre nerf. Thats exactly how I played him.
@@elibeeblebrox1084You genuinely just weren't playing efficiently. With 70m you could haphazardly spam 334 in a general direction and enemies through at least level 250 just fell over all around you. Most of the time you didn't need priming with 3, just the final damage of 4. Now you're forced to use your movement keys/stick. For me, when I play Dante I kill at a high rate with an effort level somewhere more than Xaku/Saryn but less than most of the roster. They could undo the changes, that'd be fine, but I don't feel hurt by it. I'm still happy with my large investment.
Building entirety for page flight and noctua is probably one of the most fun things I've done, even before he was nerfed i focused on noctua with arcane velocity and arcane precision giving it ridiculous damage
Hmm, one thing I did not think about yet, is how Heat procs interact with his birds and Archon Vitality. One shot of the book: 1 heat stack With Archon Vitality: 2x heat stacks With birds: 2-3 heat stack depending on strength With birds and Archon Vitality is it: 1. (1 (base) + 2 (birds)) * 2 = 6 2. 1 (base) * 2 + 2 (birds) = 4 Either way, you triple dip on strength. Noctua base damage, status chance birds, status damage birds. And maybe even quadruple dip if you cast 2x Dark Final Verse on top.
With Spectral Noctua out, isnt it even close to quintuple dip? As the book deals 50% of your damage? And he also scales with amount of players in the party lol.
I agree with everything you said. Just doesn’t make sense. Such a weird knee jerk reaction. Especially when they could have looked at this from the standpoint of “we released a successful warframe” but instead this. Not that he’s terrible, but if it’s between him and let’s say kullervo, I’m picking kullervo.
Kullervo has giganißßa melee buffs, plus he can make a room disappear by overkilling a butcher that is linked to everyone. And his 4 build combo and can be moved around with 1. Dante is still nice for survivability and team support, just can't do the Equinox without having to charging it up. But yeah, Gullernyo better
This is true. Dante brought be back to Warframe, the nerf mentality damn near made me quit. I don't like Dante near as much as his release so I invested in finishing up a few builds, including Sty and Kul. I would pretty much pick these 2 over Dante for most content now, simply because they are stronger with less drawbacks. Sty has infinite energy and OG generation, armor strip, and his 4s explosion explosions go through walls. Kul is just a god, I can't really say anything other than that. I never expected to like a melee frame, but Kul is an absolute monster. Dante was great and fun, now I feel limited with him. Qorvex was fun but weak in high SP, I wish he was better too. Just a shame.
Lot of text, sorry. But: I don't see the reason why we're not maxing range now. We weren't killing real enemies (150+ SP) through walls before anyways, so why are we acting like all of a sudden we could? I've seen some people say that you can no longer tag one group with Dark Verse, look the opposite direction to tag another, and then use Tragedy to delete them both, but that is actually untrue. Dante has TWO LoS checks, one from the camera, and the other from Dante's 'face'. These are documented changes that they mentioned in a hotfix. If you have Dante looking towards the camera and then press Tragedy, you will kill two groups of enemies, in front of and behind Dante. Now, I have always been a book believer, and I have been using it before and after the Tragedy changes. But in real missions, Dante literally plays the exact same before and after nerfs. Now, I can understand the people who are freaking out over and now assuming that DE is willing to nerf frames very soon after their release if they did good. I understand those people. I do not understand the people who are acting like an LoS change for something that already relied on an LoS ability, is the end of the frame.
Big issue was before the patch the LOS changes was an outright gutting to the point t I dropped ranged as a stat and just became a buffer frame. After the change it's much better, but sentiment is already set with the overreaction to Dante being strong and DE cutting him down so hard. Still an A tier warframe, the nerfs made his ability next to useless and the patch fixed that, but damage has been done and now he excels at nothing except providing overguard
The changes were really confusing. Not only did they nerf things that weren‘t problematic (by adding LoS to Tragedy, which only makes him painful to play for me) but they also buffed the things that were the issue (by increasing the overguard regeneration). It‘s really weird. They also said the Tragedy range was too big (so it was a nerf on basis of principle, not because of actual gameplay reasons); but they completely ignored when the community said to remove LoS and reduce the range!
Styanax and Frost can give the team overguard as well, but nobody seemed to care, but now that the new frame does it, everybody is butthurt that they can't use Rage, and ignore the fact that they get overguard gate which prevents instant death for frames like Inaros in like lvl 400 (which also happens to be Elite Deep Archemedia lvl)
@@DawnAfternoon Erm, IDK what build you're using on Styanax, but it's MORE overguard than Dante in most builds. Plus, he generates overguard WHILE doing good damage, whereas Dante must choose to NOT do damage with an ability to generate overguard.
Didn't you have to prime enemes with dark verse slash DoT (which is a LoS ability) for the tragedy to nuke SP? Therefore, wouldn't adding LoS do nothing to tragedy but reduce its star chart nuking which no one cared about anyways?
I'm so glad I came back into Warframe AFTER Dante's nerf, because to me he feels strong as hell. Like who else can give your team 30k Health and constantl bleed proc that he can DETONATE? He has such a simple yet unique playstyle that he just... Works. Like I see it and I go "He used to be STRONGER!?"
I hope and pray DE does more nerfs like this. This game needs actual balancing. After the power fantasy wares off this game gets stale asf. Power creep is insane.
The Dante nerfs made no sense when other frames could/can still do what he did for YEARS and have remained untouched. Finally DE release a literal space wizard, a cool frame and he's gutted because the forum Andy's haven't seen sunlight in months. Makes it hard to trust DE when they can turn a frame into garbage for no reason.
The three pillars Reb cited when she was talking about how the DE team targets nerfs were: 1. Griefing potential, or just generally causing some kind of interference with other people's play. 2. Allowing for passive or AFK play. 3. Dominance. Dominance is the most poorly-defined metric there, and it's the one she implied was the reason they had for looking at Dante. I also totally agree with you that it's kind of absurd to judge a warframe as being "dominant" within the first week of release when they're the new hotness and everyone who can access them is going to do that because they want to try him out. But, like... more than that, I'm just kind of struggling to see how any of the changes they made to him make him "less dominant" unless what you mean by "dominant" is "capable of dethroning Saryn as the queen of nuke." He still compares hella favorably to Ember and Gyre. He still makes the whole squad as tough as Rhino. Sure, you're pushing more buttons to do all that and you're paying more attention to your tile than you were before, but he's still nearly as capable as he was before - he just doesn't nuke through walls anymore.
"Saryn as the queen of nuke" xddddddddddd Lol, nuking what? She ain't nuking SP, she may give you 3 gigabuffs for your weapons, but she sure as shit don't nuke anything with ability damage above lvl 30 lol
Omg I got into the video I can't even finish like you have done such a good job on the vid I left a like but they absolutely stripped this frame of its fun factor and identity.
Unpopular opinion, but I don't really get why people are so upset on those nerfs. Dante can still demolish anything that stands in front of him. You can not nuke entier rooms anymore by just pressing a button and not even looking at the screen, that is true, but he is still insanely strong. Also with the overguard nerfs you can still get to 70k+ with a good strength build very easily. To me it seems like a small inconvenience compared to the power that Dante has. LOS indeed has some inconsistencies, but I always managed to overcome those and finish missions with flying colors even on high level content.
The biggest problem with the nerfs is that he was only out for a week and they nerf hammered him. Without giving time to collect data and see if he is as big of a problem as people were saying. It's a knee-jerk reaction that sets a bad precedent for future frames. What if the next frame is good and popular and they nerf them too? It sours the mood to be exited for anything if they go back to their old ways and nerf it the moment it comes out. Line of sight as a mechanic in warframe is also silly and doesn't belong at all.
I swear some of the people who cry about him getting nerfed never actually played him after the changes he's just as strong as he was before you just need to actually play the game to use his kit
I don't think the nerfs ruin him in the slightest. I would say Dante is still an excellent warframe, and still compares quite favorably to other nuke 'frames like Ember and Gyre. I can still compare how he worked before the nerfs to how other warframes work and how he works after the nerfs and come to the conclusion that the nerfs weren't really necessary and didn't accomplish much besides making him less fun.
I use him exclusively for elite arch mode, and because I don’t think the vosfor as the last reward is worth it. He just makes the whole thing relatively pain free
I agree that it makes no sense with this LoS nerf. I hope they continue to fix the LoS stuff though, as it is still goofy sometimes and enemies just don't take damage who are standing right next to me when I cast tragedy...
As someone who just started and got the dante pack as a way to get Plat and a new frame... this was the opposite of my play style 😅 I used the helmeth to replace skill 1 with roar 😅 I'm mid max for high ability duration and power with a 140% efficiency and 100% range. I summon pageflight for CC and to pick off enemies I can't see. Then spam Triumph until I hit max overguard. Then boost my secondary with pistol Amp and use wordwarden to basically add slash and toxic with radiation and just spray my primary modded on viral to basically spray status procs. Then use 2 violet shards for 60% equilibrium, 1 amber for cast speed and 2 crimson for ability duration (the longer wordwardern and pageflight last the less energy you use.) And as you noticed I'm relying mostly on skill 4 so I use precision intensity. I use Triumph as needed and use Tragedy occasionally to clear rooms with its AOE. Dethcube for the energy
Archon Stretch with a Diriga helps with energy economy. If you're gonna do the Guns and support thing. Roar is *absolutely* the way to go as he can go to the moon with strength and use something good while having the ability to press 3 twice into 4 and just kill a room or two for free. Noctua also good, just wish it was a touch faster at base but what can you do
Glad the move has gone well for you. I feel like 'Matchbook Dante' as I'm gonna refer to this build does seem like a pretty fun time, even if the reason behind it is because of some seriously unwarranted nerfs to Tragedy. Even the Nezha nerfs are a joke... seriously, he had a new and unique way to build him besides being Diet Revenant with Roar on his 4, and they nerf it a week later to the point where it isn't worth using. Bruh. Still, glad to see Dante isn't completely dead and buried, because I like the way he looks. (Pyramid Head fashion goes HARD.)
Also I just wanted to mention that the hunters adrenaline and rage do not work if your warframe has shields while they are overguarded. So only Nidus, Inaros, and Killervo if i remember correctly only get the overguard rage generation of energy. Unless they fixed that recently.
I've played him today for the first time after a long break and he feels like diet lavos. In a good way, you still have to prime your target with his 3 and then nuke them but he's not as terrible as you make it to be. Line of sight isn't even an issue, just jump and cast his 3 then 4, having a bird's eye view helps with seeing what places are safer to land and reposition. "It's line of sight so it's bad" oh please, adapt to it
I agree honestly I was so upset when I saw the nerfs and the changes haven’t really made me feel that much better. Like honestly it sort of just made me want to play him so much less as a result. Like he’s fine now but it just leaves a real bad taste in my mouth honestly. Just felt very much reactionary instead of a thought out idea.
I tried a niche secondary outburst build and found out the Naramon 2 that forces finishers doesn't let you actually use finishers on murmur/mechs even though the icon appears.
Using Noctua with the 4 invocations to gain 10 energy/s, 60% strength, 60% efficiency and 60% duration is where it’s at. No other Helminth buff is worth it in comparison imo. Use that on a dark verse build and annihilate SP, and get like 80k overguard no problem.
While the 4 Nerf to LOS wasn't warranted, it still does incredibly high amounts of damage still in a rather large radius. It's just not brain dead spam and hit things through walls. The initial nerf was terrible, but after the changes to his 4 so now if your 2 hits an enemy you pretty much can guarantee that his 4 will now as well.
for those watching after jade shadows: swap one of the heat mods on noctua with pistol elementalist(or a faction mod if you're some kind of crazy person)
Which heat mod would you swap on Noctua for Pistol Elementalist, Scorch or Primed Heated Charge? Because I'm not sure which would be better to take out.
12:30 so for how I hear it it was that other frames were not working as the players built them (aka DE needs to change anything that says on taking health/shield damage to just say damage and remove the type, maybe put in a line that’s says dosnt work with other on damage effects so you can’t multi stack it) because of his overgaurd so they did the only reasonable thing (I’m been sarcastic) and called for Dante to be nerfed. Personally I hate the idea of nerfing some because it’s better than the rest what really needs to happen is that all the stuff that is t as strong needs to be brought up to the new over powered level, balance is a nice idea but it’s not so,etching Warframe should ever concern itself with I mean we have players that can last for 24 hours in a survival map (personally I think these people need psychiatric help if they want to put themselves though that) and still be clearing whole maps I think we have long since past balance on the side of the road hitching a ride and we are still accelerating off into the distance stopping for no one.
Anemic agility is definitely the thing you want to drop first, especially if you have arcane velocity like Zime does. Though you also probably want to switch up creeping bullseye for primed pistol gambit if you're doing that.
for a weapons build I rely on noctua being electric and just use it to gain energy with archon stretch and nexus it becomes relatively passive while giving the book away.
Exactly. I just swapped out Overextended for Augur Reach since there's no point going for 40m range and it allows me to keep 175% Power Strength (+90% on Tragedy) and it works in basically any content including Archon Hunts no problem.
@@leolarose2099 if you dont mind can you link me to the original build video ive just recently come back to Warframe after a 6 month break and was wondering about good Dante builds after his "supposed" nerf.
The only reason I believe the nerf is warranted is just how insanely easy it was to NUKE rooms with the click of three buttons, his crazy amounts of overguard, and his exceptionally low Energy cost. He essentially had no flaws. These changes bring him more in line with other frames' silliness. Yes, other frames can do the same thing, but MOST of them require decent investment. That wasn't the case with Dante.
I will say, Tragedy with the birds seems to be still quite good. In general it will instakill enemies still because of the birds status vulnerability they give, but ya tragedy spam is definitely not as good, definitely want to upkeep the birds at the very least.
I've hated the nerf, I still think he should be in day one state, but I am also still having fun. I only play base steel path (sub lvl 500 enemies) so I don't know how he scales. I find Noctua to be a very strong weapon, multishot gets pretty silly in crowds with the birbs going 😅
Nerfing being better and more applicable than buffing and reworking... Caliban, Qorvex... This is unimaginably extremely frustrating. Edit: AND FUCKING SEVAGOTH, HE'S NOT A GHOST, A PHANTOM, OR A REAPER-HE CAN'T EVEN FLY AND IS STILL FOOD FOR HELMINTH AND HE'S NOT A FUCKING PIRATE! GOD! DAMMIT!
While OG Dante didn't need nerfs for anything in steel path or above, I think there's a point to be made about the entire rest of the star chat. My guess for the "dominance/disrupting" argument is that newer players had a Bad Time among other players who bought Dante for plat, because there is a base damage output for tragedy that doesn't require dark verse applications first, you could cast tragedy in star chart content and everything with less than 2k health in a nearly 100m radius disappears. My totally non legitimate armchair dev fix would have been to simply remove the base tragedy damage so star chart Dante players have to work marginally harder to expunge tiles without a second thought, without needing to add LoS
Have you tried nourish over his 1? You can still 2 3 ult and have his noctua at 30% damage to but full status chance to use as a primer. It’s pretty amazing. Viral from nourish then whatever is on your noctua and then whatever is on your damage weapon.
Please look forward to Protea nerfs when the one Caliban player starts complaining Protea primes shield grenades invalidate his spinny boys shield regen.
Very strange to me that they nerfed Dante (and Spears Nezha for that matter) when Saryn has been nuking maps for over a decade and hasn't had her kit changed to substantially reduce her ability. It doesn't make any sense to me.
saryn cant nuke shit outside of base star chart, she is strong as a weapon plataform and the only build what didnt remove her 4 was nerfed already and doesnt work anymore
Saryn isn’t a nuke 😂 I’ve returned after years and she feels significantly weaker with even more power strength. She takes a long time to build manage now, kinda mid
I still think the nerf was kind of dumb because warframes like Saryn exist and I think the reasoning was just that Dante does not even have to interact with enemies just to do things. Free Overguard that's spammable and unlike Kullervo is just the cost of energy. His 4 combined with the owls and just teams in general just made it illegal for enemies to exist despite never ever having to see them. It's a shame that it happened but it's better than a range nerf.
I know it isn't relevant to this video, but the Augment mod for Excalibur Umbra, Warrior's Rest I believe was its name, do know if it is any good to have on him? Is it helpful at all or no?
Some of the strategies for Elite Deep Archimedean involve turning on all restrictions except one (only losing out on a small bit of vospher), would you say that this Dante with Noctua would be a good choice for that, or do you think there’s a better exalted frame to main for the mode?
The altered version is absolutely still fine and powerful. I'm pretty damn disappointed that you're feeding into the "sky is falling" hysteria here Zime.
He made it pretty clear in the video that he thinks Dante is still quite strong but is undeniably frustrated with the nerf as it was a mishmash of changes for no real apparent reason with clear undertones of panic on their part.
@@BrozimeI'm not going to try quoting any specific things you said, but what I'm keying in on are the repeated mentions of how building around Dark Verse/Tragedy just isn't worth it anymore. Those skills are still awesome! I'm not personally invested or anything, Dante doesn't rank in my favorite frames at all (I'm a boring Loki, Inaros, Nekros, Nova type) but I do resent the implication that we need to instantly obliterate everything within 70m, through walls and tileset boundaries, for a thing to be "worth it". Maybe that's not what you meant, but it certainly seemed to be what you were saying.
I feel like its an interesting choice to go raw heat on the pure slash weapon when you could always just go viral and probably get more damage, but otherwise some great points about the stuff dante does that isn't tragedy.
Noctua still feels boring to me even after they buffed it. As with most exalted weapons, normal weapons do better so it feels useless to me. It was fun building around Tragedy but with the LoS changes, it still has issues with small items getting in the way (Dante himself blocks his own LoS) and its inconsistent now despite the changes across the board. I'm just disappointed and really don't have any reason to use him now. I'll play Jade a month after release so I don't waste my time farming a for a frame that's probably getting nerfed because its fun.
I see almost no change in how I play him, I still have 2 yellow and 3 red shards from the last build and still run the old built casually and see almost no changes. For now I’ve decided to swap off Precision Intensify for Umbral Intensify when using Noctua but still have a loadout for Roar and PI to buff teammates a ton
The "ruins others play experience" bit was that people using bad frames and weapons were moaning that dante was killing things faster than them... as if there arent already other frames that can do that.
I really think they needed to look into overguard and not Dante when changing things. The nerfs felt like a massive knee-jerk reaction that needed more time to actually look into things before acting.
I just don't understand why they don't understand. He was fine before. They said they MIGHT consider removing the LoS on Tragedy if they brought in his range some. I'm honestly hoping for that.
Zime: "... now that he's been nerfed for some reason" Also Zime: "This is my new general content frame, regardless of the nerf because of his passive" "The nerfs to dark verse and tragedy don't matter too much, you can still use them just fine" "the way this is gunna go down is not too dissimilar to the way it was before" So to summarize: 1) dante is still at a healthy level of power and quite usable in most situations 2) you still have a reason to use him despite not being as powerful So now you can play missions and not be so powerful that nobody else gets to play the game because you're so powerful you one-shot all dudes up to lvl 200 within almost a 200m diameter sphere. Its pretty obvious that old dante was so powerful he removed any reason for other players to even lift a finger in a mission because dante already killed everybody. like, imagine a limbo that just removed enemies from the game instead of just preventing you from attacking them. THATS what old dante was like.
I feel like the negative reactions to the Nerf would be solved if DE came out and bluntly said what his role is. Going off how the nerf changed him... IE: Buffing his Overguard but nerfing his dps My gut feeling is that he is supposed to be like Harrow. IE: Support First, DPS Second However, when he was released he was basically a Planet Buster in terms of DPS. So now everyone and their whole family (the cousins too) think he's supposed to be dps first, support second. I feel like (obviously this is hindsight) had DE just come out and said: "Dante was intended to be a Supportive DPS Frame. Our vision was for him to aid in protecting the squad while enfeebling enemies upon the battlefield. Thus we are changing him to be more in line with his intended vision by... [Insert changes here]." But instead they came out from under the ring Pro Wrestling style, hit the low blow, then a sledge hammer to the ribs, german suplexed him through a set of tables, then looked at the audience and went: "Why are you booing?" Like...I'm not gonna lie... Dante was stupid broken. Like, the pverly nerfed SP Circuit was an absolute joke with him pre-nerf. I can only imagine how Archimedia was. And most games I play have LoS rules so for me...I kind of expect to not hit shit I can't see/shit that takes cover. Honestly his range is still absurd at base. My build on him doesn't even use range mods and he still absolutely claps.
I like that DE understands that they’ve power crept exalted weapons enough to know that they needed to give Noctua ridiculously high power scaling to base dmg but not enough to just give us arcane slots on exalted weapons
I think at this point in the game, melee exalteds should have acolyte mods
It's probably coming in the future. Or maybe rivens for exalted weapons.
They’re like “you can slot infinite time mods”
Like who’s gonna be using more than the fire rate one occasionally? 😅
@@khaleelwilson2315 the issue with the acolyte mods is they require aiming(not all exalted weapons aim) and the other condition is either kills(this is usable), reload(I don't think any exalted weapon reloads), or after casting(which would increase the energy cost of these abilities as you would either need to spam another ability or spam turning on and off the exalted). The mele mods would be neat to reintroduce.
I mean your exalted use whatever weapon type it mimics, like mesas will use the arcane that’s in your secondary weapon
these dante nerfs make me sad in the way the "styanax isn't allowed to fly" nerf did. it literally was hurting no one and was very fun to play, but they nerfed it anyway.
Tragedy is absolutely still worth going all in on. Got him 2 days ago, spent today doing 5 formas and walked into a 1hr Mot SP Survival solo firing no weapons and it was mind-bogglingly cosy. Had Roar over the 1, and a Hound for Viral sparks and nothing except the Acolytes survived a Tragedy cast. 70m was nice but 45m is absolutely fine.
Hi there I’m confused with how his casting ability works and which spells to cast for tragedy , got any helpful tips for me ?
@@KaFullah basically his 4th ability has 4 versions, of which Tragedy is only one. Qhich version you get depends on how you have casted his 2nd and 3rd ability.
Look at the bottom right UI and you see the book? When you cast 2, you will see a "Light" page added to the book right side of the book. When you cast 3 it will add a "Dark" page to the right side of the book.
If the right page is already filled, that page will move to the left and be replaced by the new page.
That gives you 4 combinations for the 4th ability:
Right Page Light, Left Page Light
Right Page Dark, Left Page Light
Right Page Light, Left Page Dark
Right Page Dark, Left Page Dark
Tragedy is the last version, both pages dark, or by casting 4 after casting 3 twice without casting 2 between.
@@tomj819 if ur playing offensively with nocturna what casting should you be using like for eg when it comes to nuking etc
@@KaFullah Noctua is its own ability so doesn't affect how you cast the others, but modding Noctua for Viral will enhance the Slash from Dark Verse and Tragedy, and Tragedy will also cash in and multiply any Heat, Slash or Electric procs your Noctua applies as well.
I did a 1 hour mot survival arb last night with him. Team was a boosted Mirage (91% of our damage because jesus christ), another Dante, and a Rhino. We consistently had like 90k Overguard up, multiple birds flying around, everyone had books, and those Tragedy booms were still nuking rooms at 1 hour in. We only stopped because a couple of teammates had to get some sleep.
Gotta say the nerf really rubs me the wrong way. Some people cried on the forums and it lead to *huge* changes that absolutely gut how the frame feels to play. Sure you can use his exalted weapon, but he was shown off as a caster frame. I wanna be a wizard not a gun slinger
It doesn't gut him. You can play him the same way, you just can't stare at a wall and kill enemies before they see you. That's all that was lost. You don't have to use Noctua at all if you don't want to
you can literally one shot level cap with casting only. he's still very much a caster frame. You just cant do it through walls
@@owendawg1 You couldn't kill through walls before anyway unless you were playing on hydron or some similarly low level mission, ***or*** you hit them with your 3 or some other primer beforehand. How is this different than like 1/4th the roster? Does his 4 kill things? Yes. Does it feel significantly worse to have 3 separate LoS checks to get damage from an ability in a high mobility game? Also yes. I didn't say that they gutted the frame, I said that they gutted how he felt.
@@blank5237 The only time i've seen his tragedy kill something at level cap was when it was *heavily* primed by outside sources. Don't act like it's a single 3 3 4 combo to do that lol.
Dante was definitely over tuned. He was super tanky, had very strong damage, was nuking enemies through wall, and had very good team support. U could nuke steel path just with dark verse, and dante was also very easy to get. The only thing i dont get is why they nerfed him so fast
100% agree that it made no sense they would nerf these things. As you said, they cite three criteria they look at to determine whether something needs a nerf:
Dominance. Is NOT using this item widely considered a bad decision? Example: AoE weapons before their nerfs.
Disruption: Is using this item disruptive to what other players are doing? This one could warrant a nerf, buff, or change, but is still a possible marker. Example: Overguard ruining rage-based builds.
Automation: Is this item enabling players to complete objectives without actually doing anything? Example: Wukong's clone.
It had been a week; it was not dominant in any way.
It wasn't enabling automation without some sort of hotkey scripting, which isn't allowed.
The only argument WAS for the overguard being given to teammates being disruptive. But they didn't even look at that in the first patch/nerf, and only followed up on it after re-buffing him.
These buffs were entirely emotionally driven by forum thread screechers, not objective or data driven as they supposedly ascribe to. This lapse in process is a major question of judgement and reduction in trust for nerfs in the future. Hopefully they go back to having a more careful hand in the future.
The fact that you could stand in the middle of a room and hit 3 and 4 without moving is definitely the automation they wanted gone
@@CS0723 Dark verse was (still is btw) a cone shaped ability limited by range and LoS so sure with good positioning you could hit anything and everything but then again we have Saryn killing enemies 3 tilesets away or Octavia teabaging her way to victory. If nuking low level maps was a concern then remove or heavily reduce the base damage from Tragedy and slightly increase the scaling for status effects to compensate.
@@DalanorTheLlama Well Saryn shouldn't exist the way she does. IDK why someone would load up a shooter with such a huge range of guns and frames only to pick saryn, stand in the middle of a room and AFK
Styanax was screwing over rage builds since his augment came out but some how Dante was the problem? 😂
@invoidker1049 the problem was the way overguard interacted with rage. That's not specifically a dante or styanax issue, that's like a game dev issue. I guess it got enough attention now to change the way overguard works because of the (assumingly) much higher rate of play for dante
Dante build 1:15
Book build 4:39
Thanks for the timestamp 👑💯
The nerf really just doesn't make any sense to me. Did he get nerfed because he has crazy map nuking potential? If so, Saryn and a couple other frames can already do that. Did he get nerfed because he can give himself and allies effective invincibility? Revenant can already do that, Kullervo can already do that to himself. Is it because he can do both of those at once? If that was the case, Nezha can do both with his new Divine Spear augment.
I understand wanting to prevent power creep, but he wasn't even allowed to exist in his old state for long enough to decide if he was actually moving the needle in terms of the meta.
Well, they nerfed Nezha too, though everyone got pretty upset over that so they partially reverted it.
that's what i'm sayin!! they brought the hammer down on him WAY too quick
saryn doesnt give the entire party overguard, revenant only has mesmer skin.
see how they only do one of those things and not both?
Saryn nuking? Nuking what? Lvl 30s on Hydron? xddd Saryn is best used as a weapons platform.
Equinox can't spam it like Dante could, has to charge up the big boi numbers first.
Mesa struggles without an armor strip.
So what frames are exactly nuking? There is no SP nuke that was the same low effort as 3 button presses.
@@proximityclockworkx1572
o.O
Saryn doesn't nuke? Dafuq? She massacres every thing what're you on about? She requires a mix of abilities and weapons but that doesn't change the fact that if they thought Dante's aoe was too good then they should by that logic be nerfing her too.
I hate when devs double down on their nerfs and spend so much dev time trying to monkey's paw the situation into something barely better. For once I wish a studio would just listen to the outcry and simply revert the changes and take the L
Yeah theyve done this a few times and every single time they come across as stone cold jerks 😢
DE has a really bad track story of swallowing their pride and admitting when they fuck it up, this was probably one of the worst cases ffs
These changes didn’t deserve to be reverted lmao
@@vrirax8211would be funny to see you crying if they treated your fav frames like this. Before you even try to prove a point I have many builds stronger and easier to use than Dante, who now have even greater influence than him. BS changes while other similar frames exist. Dante is still strong but other frames outclass him, with far more automated play styles.
@@SolidNitrox At no point would I ever cry about a reasonable nerf lmao, similar frames like who?
Homely I just don't get it. Was it about low level nuking? They could've just removed the base damage of his 4 so that you *needed* to tag enemies with his 3, which was already LoS.
Side note: you can use seismic bond on a sentinel with helstrum to increase your efficiency as long as you have noctua equipped and out.
Adding to what u said, u can take advantage of not only that, but any bonus that's active while channeling abilities, like for example mIter incarnon's fire rate buff, and iirc there are many incarnon buff that have that restriction too.
I still build all in on his 4. It's still very doable. Noctua is very useful when you just toss every invocation + the armor strip canticle + multishot/fire rate on it. Fixes his energy economy by granting 60% efficiency and energy regen. Tragedy still does an incredible amount of damage and AoE when you have the birds up. It's not as good or as easy as it used to be, but I personally find it to be a more engaging playstyle. "Priming" enemies with 30+ slash procs from noctua/wordwarden/owls, getting a ton of ability stats from the alt fire, and cashing in with tragedy is VERY fun to me. Moreso than spamming 334 pre nerf. Like I don't think the nerf was necessary or warranted, but I think Dante came out the other side a more fun frame. Not better, but I enjoy playing him more.
IDK what the fuck you're talking about with "spamming 334 pre nerf"
That's exactly what the nerf turned tragedy into. Pre nerf, there was a payoff to thoughtful application of dark verse before tragedy. Now, you may as well just spam 334 in that order without thinking about it. Now, the more effort you spend priming, the less return on investment you get because enemies can become obscured over time.
And there was nothing stopping you from playing the way you're describing pre nerf. Thats exactly how I played him.
@@elibeeblebrox1084You genuinely just weren't playing efficiently. With 70m you could haphazardly spam 334 in a general direction and enemies through at least level 250 just fell over all around you. Most of the time you didn't need priming with 3, just the final damage of 4. Now you're forced to use your movement keys/stick.
For me, when I play Dante I kill at a high rate with an effort level somewhere more than Xaku/Saryn but less than most of the roster.
They could undo the changes, that'd be fine, but I don't feel hurt by it. I'm still happy with my large investment.
Building entirety for page flight and noctua is probably one of the most fun things I've done, even before he was nerfed i focused on noctua with arcane velocity and arcane precision giving it ridiculous damage
Delay on the tierlist is all good. It tells me the info in it will be reliable for longer.
Hmm, one thing I did not think about yet, is how Heat procs interact with his birds and Archon Vitality.
One shot of the book: 1 heat stack
With Archon Vitality: 2x heat stacks
With birds: 2-3 heat stack depending on strength
With birds and Archon Vitality is it:
1. (1 (base) + 2 (birds)) * 2 = 6
2. 1 (base) * 2 + 2 (birds) = 4
Either way, you triple dip on strength. Noctua base damage, status chance birds, status damage birds. And maybe even quadruple dip if you cast 2x Dark Final Verse on top.
With Spectral Noctua out, isnt it even close to quintuple dip? As the book deals 50% of your damage?
And he also scales with amount of players in the party lol.
I’ve built around his 1 from day one. It’s honestly fairly solid and viable against virtually anything.
I agree with everything you said. Just doesn’t make sense. Such a weird knee jerk reaction. Especially when they could have looked at this from the standpoint of “we released a successful warframe” but instead this. Not that he’s terrible, but if it’s between him and let’s say kullervo, I’m picking kullervo.
Kullervo has giganißßa melee buffs, plus he can make a room disappear by overkilling a butcher that is linked to everyone. And his 4 build combo and can be moved around with 1.
Dante is still nice for survivability and team support, just can't do the Equinox without having to charging it up.
But yeah, Gullernyo better
This is true. Dante brought be back to Warframe, the nerf mentality damn near made me quit. I don't like Dante near as much as his release so I invested in finishing up a few builds, including Sty and Kul. I would pretty much pick these 2 over Dante for most content now, simply because they are stronger with less drawbacks. Sty has infinite energy and OG generation, armor strip, and his 4s explosion explosions go through walls. Kul is just a god, I can't really say anything other than that. I never expected to like a melee frame, but Kul is an absolute monster. Dante was great and fun, now I feel limited with him. Qorvex was fun but weak in high SP, I wish he was better too. Just a shame.
Lot of text, sorry. But:
I don't see the reason why we're not maxing range now. We weren't killing real enemies (150+ SP) through walls before anyways, so why are we acting like all of a sudden we could? I've seen some people say that you can no longer tag one group with Dark Verse, look the opposite direction to tag another, and then use Tragedy to delete them both, but that is actually untrue. Dante has TWO LoS checks, one from the camera, and the other from Dante's 'face'. These are documented changes that they mentioned in a hotfix. If you have Dante looking towards the camera and then press Tragedy, you will kill two groups of enemies, in front of and behind Dante. Now, I have always been a book believer, and I have been using it before and after the Tragedy changes. But in real missions, Dante literally plays the exact same before and after nerfs.
Now, I can understand the people who are freaking out over and now assuming that DE is willing to nerf frames very soon after their release if they did good. I understand those people.
I do not understand the people who are acting like an LoS change for something that already relied on an LoS ability, is the end of the frame.
Big issue was before the patch the LOS changes was an outright gutting to the point t I dropped ranged as a stat and just became a buffer frame. After the change it's much better, but sentiment is already set with the overreaction to Dante being strong and DE cutting him down so hard.
Still an A tier warframe, the nerfs made his ability next to useless and the patch fixed that, but damage has been done and now he excels at nothing except providing overguard
The changes were really confusing.
Not only did they nerf things that weren‘t problematic (by adding LoS to Tragedy, which only makes him painful to play for me) but they also buffed the things that were the issue (by increasing the overguard regeneration). It‘s really weird.
They also said the Tragedy range was too big (so it was a nerf on basis of principle, not because of actual gameplay reasons); but they completely ignored when the community said to remove LoS and reduce the range!
If they’re using los to reduce range then shouldn’t they be buffing the base range? Los blocks most things
@@andycampbell8622you would think so, but with all the doublespeak coming from reb lately, nah
Styanax and Frost can give the team overguard as well, but nobody seemed to care, but now that the new frame does it, everybody is butthurt that they can't use Rage, and ignore the fact that they get overguard gate which prevents instant death for frames like Inaros in like lvl 400 (which also happens to be Elite Deep Archemedia lvl)
@@proximityclockworkx1572 Styanax and Frost Overguard generation is jackshit compared to Dante, I'm sorry.
@@DawnAfternoon Erm, IDK what build you're using on Styanax, but it's MORE overguard than Dante in most builds. Plus, he generates overguard WHILE doing good damage, whereas Dante must choose to NOT do damage with an ability to generate overguard.
Didn't you have to prime enemes with dark verse slash DoT (which is a LoS ability) for the tragedy to nuke SP? Therefore, wouldn't adding LoS do nothing to tragedy but reduce its star chart nuking which no one cared about anyways?
I'm so glad I came back into Warframe AFTER Dante's nerf, because to me he feels strong as hell. Like who else can give your team 30k Health and constantl bleed proc that he can DETONATE? He has such a simple yet unique playstyle that he just... Works. Like I see it and I go "He used to be STRONGER!?"
Dante being the frame that he is gets nerfed…but then wonder why ppl cry about nerfs so much in this game
I hope and pray DE does more nerfs like this. This game needs actual balancing. After the power fantasy wares off this game gets stale asf. Power creep is insane.
The Dante nerfs made no sense when other frames could/can still do what he did for YEARS and have remained untouched. Finally DE release a literal space wizard, a cool frame and he's gutted because the forum Andy's haven't seen sunlight in months. Makes it hard to trust DE when they can turn a frame into garbage for no reason.
The three pillars Reb cited when she was talking about how the DE team targets nerfs were:
1. Griefing potential, or just generally causing some kind of interference with other people's play.
2. Allowing for passive or AFK play.
3. Dominance.
Dominance is the most poorly-defined metric there, and it's the one she implied was the reason they had for looking at Dante. I also totally agree with you that it's kind of absurd to judge a warframe as being "dominant" within the first week of release when they're the new hotness and everyone who can access them is going to do that because they want to try him out.
But, like... more than that, I'm just kind of struggling to see how any of the changes they made to him make him "less dominant" unless what you mean by "dominant" is "capable of dethroning Saryn as the queen of nuke." He still compares hella favorably to Ember and Gyre. He still makes the whole squad as tough as Rhino. Sure, you're pushing more buttons to do all that and you're paying more attention to your tile than you were before, but he's still nearly as capable as he was before - he just doesn't nuke through walls anymore.
It's a power fantasy game. What are we supposed to be, if not dominant?
"Saryn as the queen of nuke" xddddddddddd Lol, nuking what? She ain't nuking SP, she may give you 3 gigabuffs for your weapons, but she sure as shit don't nuke anything with ability damage above lvl 30 lol
Omg I got into the video I can't even finish like you have done such a good job on the vid I left a like but they absolutely stripped this frame of its fun factor and identity.
Unpopular opinion, but I don't really get why people are so upset on those nerfs. Dante can still demolish anything that stands in front of him. You can not nuke entier rooms anymore by just pressing a button and not even looking at the screen, that is true, but he is still insanely strong. Also with the overguard nerfs you can still get to 70k+ with a good strength build very easily. To me it seems like a small inconvenience compared to the power that Dante has. LOS indeed has some inconsistencies, but I always managed to overcome those and finish missions with flying colors even on high level content.
The biggest problem with the nerfs is that he was only out for a week and they nerf hammered him. Without giving time to collect data and see if he is as big of a problem as people were saying. It's a knee-jerk reaction that sets a bad precedent for future frames.
What if the next frame is good and popular and they nerf them too? It sours the mood to be exited for anything if they go back to their old ways and nerf it the moment it comes out.
Line of sight as a mechanic in warframe is also silly and doesn't belong at all.
I swear some of the people who cry about him getting nerfed never actually played him after the changes he's just as strong as he was before you just need to actually play the game to use his kit
I don't think the nerfs ruin him in the slightest. I would say Dante is still an excellent warframe, and still compares quite favorably to other nuke 'frames like Ember and Gyre.
I can still compare how he worked before the nerfs to how other warframes work and how he works after the nerfs and come to the conclusion that the nerfs weren't really necessary and didn't accomplish much besides making him less fun.
@Garroosh this games needs a overhaul to balance desperately. After the power fantasy wares off it gets so stale. No challenge whatsoever.
I use him exclusively for elite arch mode, and because I don’t think the vosfor as the last reward is worth it. He just makes the whole thing relatively pain free
This.he was basically made for deep arch
I agree that it makes no sense with this LoS nerf. I hope they continue to fix the LoS stuff though, as it is still goofy sometimes and enemies just don't take damage who are standing right next to me when I cast tragedy...
As someone who just started and got the dante pack as a way to get Plat and a new frame... this was the opposite of my play style 😅 I used the helmeth to replace skill 1 with roar 😅 I'm mid max for high ability duration and power with a 140% efficiency and 100% range. I summon pageflight for CC and to pick off enemies I can't see. Then spam Triumph until I hit max overguard. Then boost my secondary with pistol Amp and use wordwarden to basically add slash and toxic with radiation and just spray my primary modded on viral to basically spray status procs. Then use 2 violet shards for 60% equilibrium, 1 amber for cast speed and 2 crimson for ability duration (the longer wordwardern and pageflight last the less energy you use.) And as you noticed I'm relying mostly on skill 4 so I use precision intensity. I use Triumph as needed and use Tragedy occasionally to clear rooms with its AOE. Dethcube for the energy
mid max
Archon Stretch with a Diriga helps with energy economy. If you're gonna do the Guns and support thing. Roar is *absolutely* the way to go as he can go to the moon with strength and use something good while having the ability to press 3 twice into 4 and just kill a room or two for free.
Noctua also good, just wish it was a touch faster at base but what can you do
I love this Warframe I can only imagine how fun he was pre nerf!
Glad the move has gone well for you. I feel like 'Matchbook Dante' as I'm gonna refer to this build does seem like a pretty fun time, even if the reason behind it is because of some seriously unwarranted nerfs to Tragedy. Even the Nezha nerfs are a joke... seriously, he had a new and unique way to build him besides being Diet Revenant with Roar on his 4, and they nerf it a week later to the point where it isn't worth using. Bruh.
Still, glad to see Dante isn't completely dead and buried, because I like the way he looks. (Pyramid Head fashion goes HARD.)
So the frame works fine still and you get better performance from using the full toolkit? Sounds like a good change tbh, once the tears have dried.
Quite out of topic question, but can ypu tell me what are those attachments? I've tried looking for them in thw store and cant find them 🙁
Also I just wanted to mention that the hunters adrenaline and rage do not work if your warframe has shields while they are overguarded. So only Nidus, Inaros, and Killervo if i remember correctly only get the overguard rage generation of energy. Unless they fixed that recently.
Companion for energy: does Diriga still trigger Archon Stretch?
I'm pretty sure, yes. As of the mirage buff update it definitely did
I just used him last night, he still feels like one of the, if not, THE strongest Warframe in the game.
I've played him today for the first time after a long break and he feels like diet lavos. In a good way, you still have to prime your target with his 3 and then nuke them but he's not as terrible as you make it to be. Line of sight isn't even an issue, just jump and cast his 3 then 4, having a bird's eye view helps with seeing what places are safer to land and reposition. "It's line of sight so it's bad" oh please, adapt to it
I agree honestly I was so upset when I saw the nerfs and the changes haven’t really made me feel that much better. Like honestly it sort of just made me want to play him so much less as a result. Like he’s fine now but it just leaves a real bad taste in my mouth honestly. Just felt very much reactionary instead of a thought out idea.
I tried a niche secondary outburst build and found out the Naramon 2 that forces finishers doesn't let you actually use finishers on murmur/mechs even though the icon appears.
Using Noctua with the 4 invocations to gain 10 energy/s, 60% strength, 60% efficiency and 60% duration is where it’s at. No other Helminth buff is worth it in comparison imo. Use that on a dark verse build and annihilate SP, and get like 80k overguard no problem.
I love noctua.
You can helm it off and still have it as a priming stack stick.
(I mean book)
Very interesting ability
what would you replace on noctua to fit in xata invocation?
Distracted kpm tests are more representative of most gameplay anyway, certain setups are penalized by it more than others so it's good info too
While the 4 Nerf to LOS wasn't warranted, it still does incredibly high amounts of damage still in a rather large radius. It's just not brain dead spam and hit things through walls. The initial nerf was terrible, but after the changes to his 4 so now if your 2 hits an enemy you pretty much can guarantee that his 4 will now as well.
for those watching after jade shadows: swap one of the heat mods on noctua with pistol elementalist(or a faction mod if you're some kind of crazy person)
Which heat mod would you swap on Noctua for Pistol Elementalist, Scorch or Primed Heated Charge? Because I'm not sure which would be better to take out.
12:30 so for how I hear it it was that other frames were not working as the players built them (aka DE needs to change anything that says on taking health/shield damage to just say damage and remove the type, maybe put in a line that’s says dosnt work with other on damage effects so you can’t multi stack it) because of his overgaurd so they did the only reasonable thing (I’m been sarcastic) and called for Dante to be nerfed.
Personally I hate the idea of nerfing some because it’s better than the rest what really needs to happen is that all the stuff that is t as strong needs to be brought up to the new over powered level, balance is a nice idea but it’s not so,etching Warframe should ever concern itself with I mean we have players that can last for 24 hours in a survival map (personally I think these people need psychiatric help if they want to put themselves though that) and still be clearing whole maps I think we have long since past balance on the side of the road hitching a ride and we are still accelerating off into the distance stopping for no one.
Do orange shards work on noctua?
Great build showcase! Any mods you would consider dropping off Noctua for tome mods in lower level content?
Anemic agility is definitely the thing you want to drop first, especially if you have arcane velocity like Zime does. Though you also probably want to switch up creeping bullseye for primed pistol gambit if you're doing that.
for a weapons build I rely on noctua being electric and just use it to gain energy with archon stretch and nexus it becomes relatively passive while giving the book away.
The nerf sucks but honestly I'm gonna stick to the original build. its just more fun for me and still works well enough.
It really isn’t that bad
Exactly. I just swapped out Overextended for Augur Reach since there's no point going for 40m range and it allows me to keep 175% Power Strength (+90% on Tragedy) and it works in basically any content including Archon Hunts no problem.
Exactly the original build works fine lol. What an overreaction
@@leolarose2099 if you dont mind can you link me to the original build video ive just recently come back to Warframe after a 6 month break and was wondering about good Dante builds after his "supposed" nerf.
The only reason I believe the nerf is warranted is just how insanely easy it was to NUKE rooms with the click of three buttons, his crazy amounts of overguard, and his exceptionally low Energy cost. He essentially had no flaws. These changes bring him more in line with other frames' silliness. Yes, other frames can do the same thing, but MOST of them require decent investment. That wasn't the case with Dante.
I will say, Tragedy with the birds seems to be still quite good. In general it will instakill enemies still because of the birds status vulnerability they give, but ya tragedy spam is definitely not as good, definitely want to upkeep the birds at the very least.
If you give noctua cold damage that works with archon flow right?
Have you considered bringing your test sessions to Lua Circulus or an Omnia fissure (SP variant of couse) ?
I've hated the nerf, I still think he should be in day one state, but I am also still having fun. I only play base steel path (sub lvl 500 enemies) so I don't know how he scales. I find Noctua to be a very strong weapon, multishot gets pretty silly in crowds with the birbs going 😅
Nerfing being better and more applicable than buffing and reworking... Caliban, Qorvex... This is unimaginably extremely frustrating.
Edit: AND FUCKING SEVAGOTH, HE'S NOT A GHOST, A PHANTOM, OR A REAPER-HE CAN'T EVEN FLY AND IS STILL FOOD FOR HELMINTH AND HE'S NOT A FUCKING PIRATE! GOD! DAMMIT!
Interested to hear about Nezha’s ult augment change in his segment of your upcoming warframe tierlist video!
While OG Dante didn't need nerfs for anything in steel path or above, I think there's a point to be made about the entire rest of the star chat. My guess for the "dominance/disrupting" argument is that newer players had a Bad Time among other players who bought Dante for plat, because there is a base damage output for tragedy that doesn't require dark verse applications first, you could cast tragedy in star chart content and everything with less than 2k health in a nearly 100m radius disappears. My totally non legitimate armchair dev fix would have been to simply remove the base tragedy damage so star chart Dante players have to work marginally harder to expunge tiles without a second thought, without needing to add LoS
Have you tried nourish over his 1? You can still 2 3 ult and have his noctua at 30% damage to but full status chance to use as a primer. It’s pretty amazing. Viral from nourish then whatever is on your noctua and then whatever is on your damage weapon.
yes. Next question
Please look forward to Protea nerfs when the one Caliban player starts complaining Protea primes shield grenades invalidate his spinny boys shield regen.
Very strange to me that they nerfed Dante (and Spears Nezha for that matter) when Saryn has been nuking maps for over a decade and hasn't had her kit changed to substantially reduce her ability. It doesn't make any sense to me.
saryn cant nuke shit outside of base star chart, she is strong as a weapon plataform and the only build what didnt remove her 4 was nerfed already and doesnt work anymore
Saryn isn’t a nuke 😂 I’ve returned after years and she feels significantly weaker with even more power strength. She takes a long time to build manage now, kinda mid
I still think the nerf was kind of dumb because warframes like Saryn exist and I think the reasoning was just that Dante does not even have to interact with enemies just to do things. Free Overguard that's spammable and unlike Kullervo is just the cost of energy. His 4 combined with the owls and just teams in general just made it illegal for enemies to exist despite never ever having to see them. It's a shame that it happened but it's better than a range nerf.
I have a question. WHY nerf my boi? The first frame in so long that came in a Very good place gets nerfed within a week
I know it isn't relevant to this video, but the Augment mod for Excalibur Umbra, Warrior's Rest I believe was its name, do know if it is any good to have on him? Is it helpful at all or no?
Some of the strategies for Elite Deep Archimedean involve turning on all restrictions except one (only losing out on a small bit of vospher), would you say that this Dante with Noctua would be a good choice for that, or do you think there’s a better exalted frame to main for the mode?
Depends on the debuffs.
He seems more reasonable now, less of a one trick pony. I'm sure most would take versitility over endgame dps-ing
The altered version is absolutely still fine and powerful. I'm pretty damn disappointed that you're feeding into the "sky is falling" hysteria here Zime.
Am I? I feel I’m pretty explicit here with that he’s still good but frustrated with no reason nerfing
He made it pretty clear in the video that he thinks Dante is still quite strong but is undeniably frustrated with the nerf as it was a mishmash of changes for no real apparent reason with clear undertones of panic on their part.
@@BrozimeI'm not going to try quoting any specific things you said, but what I'm keying in on are the repeated mentions of how building around Dark Verse/Tragedy just isn't worth it anymore. Those skills are still awesome! I'm not personally invested or anything, Dante doesn't rank in my favorite frames at all (I'm a boring Loki, Inaros, Nekros, Nova type) but I do resent the implication that we need to instantly obliterate everything within 70m, through walls and tileset boundaries, for a thing to be "worth it".
Maybe that's not what you meant, but it certainly seemed to be what you were saying.
I feel like its an interesting choice to go raw heat on the pure slash weapon when you could always just go viral and probably get more damage, but otherwise some great points about the stuff dante does that isn't tragedy.
Has anyone else found strange transmissions in the codex?
Specifically the "Grineer" fragment.
I just want no LoS Tragedy back. Reduce it's range a bit or remove the initial damage but please just remove the LoS.
Noctua still feels boring to me even after they buffed it. As with most exalted weapons, normal weapons do better so it feels useless to me. It was fun building around Tragedy but with the LoS changes, it still has issues with small items getting in the way (Dante himself blocks his own LoS) and its inconsistent now despite the changes across the board. I'm just disappointed and really don't have any reason to use him now. I'll play Jade a month after release so I don't waste my time farming a for a frame that's probably getting nerfed because its fun.
I see almost no change in how I play him, I still have 2 yellow and 3 red shards from the last build and still run the old built casually and see almost no changes. For now I’ve decided to swap off Precision Intensify for Umbral Intensify when using Noctua but still have a loadout for Roar and PI to buff teammates a ton
The "ruins others play experience" bit was that people using bad frames and weapons were moaning that dante was killing things faster than them... as if there arent already other frames that can do that.
I really think they needed to look into overguard and not Dante when changing things. The nerfs felt like a massive knee-jerk reaction that needed more time to actually look into things before acting.
Precision intensify still does some work
the short brozime made had me rolling😂 this nerf sucks cause i didnt use him at all until i found he got nerfed
Do you think it is worth running the book mod that strips armor?
He needs to tell me where I can find my dual MIGHTY SEERS
I just don't understand why they don't understand. He was fine before. They said they MIGHT consider removing the LoS on Tragedy if they brought in his range some. I'm honestly hoping for that.
Zime: "... now that he's been nerfed for some reason"
Also Zime:
"This is my new general content frame, regardless of the nerf because of his passive"
"The nerfs to dark verse and tragedy don't matter too much, you can still use them just fine"
"the way this is gunna go down is not too dissimilar to the way it was before"
So to summarize:
1) dante is still at a healthy level of power and quite usable in most situations
2) you still have a reason to use him despite not being as powerful
So now you can play missions and not be so powerful that nobody else gets to play the game because you're so powerful you one-shot all dudes up to lvl 200 within almost a 200m diameter sphere. Its pretty obvious that old dante was so powerful he removed any reason for other players to even lift a finger in a mission because dante already killed everybody.
like, imagine a limbo that just removed enemies from the game instead of just preventing you from attacking them. THATS what old dante was like.
Anyone who says he is good is coping. He was good. Now he is just another frame.
wonder how Nezha will work now that Dark Verse or Tragedy whatever it is has LoS
Dante's tragedy is a menace, just put pageflight out.
Sounds like he's passing gas at the start of his videos
I think he’s just neat :)
Congrats on the move!
Line of Sight should use Head, Shoulders, Knees, and Toes.
It’s not about if it’s still good, it’s about buying the product and then it getting “updated” and removing the exact features that I payed for.
Bro, you didn't turn off screen shake?
It is off some things override it for some reason
Dagath does not need buffs? Are you joking?
The nerfs were worth finally getting LoS changes
It's really just the LoS being busted that creates the problem. I would be fine with fov that had a range and punchthru.
I feel like the negative reactions to the Nerf would be solved if DE came out and bluntly said what his role is.
Going off how the nerf changed him...
IE: Buffing his Overguard but nerfing his dps
My gut feeling is that he is supposed to be like Harrow.
IE: Support First, DPS Second
However, when he was released he was basically a Planet Buster in terms of DPS. So now everyone and their whole family (the cousins too) think he's supposed to be dps first, support second.
I feel like (obviously this is hindsight) had DE just come out and said:
"Dante was intended to be a Supportive DPS Frame. Our vision was for him to aid in protecting the squad while enfeebling enemies upon the battlefield. Thus we are changing him to be more in line with his intended vision by... [Insert changes here]."
But instead they came out from under the ring Pro Wrestling style, hit the low blow, then a sledge hammer to the ribs, german suplexed him through a set of tables, then looked at the audience and went: "Why are you booing?"
Like...I'm not gonna lie...
Dante was stupid broken.
Like, the pverly nerfed SP Circuit was an absolute joke with him pre-nerf. I can only imagine how Archimedia was.
And most games I play have LoS rules so for me...I kind of expect to not hit shit I can't see/shit that takes cover.
Honestly his range is still absurd at base. My build on him doesn't even use range mods and he still absolutely claps.
Creeping terrify.. armor strip and slash procs
The moment i used his "fixed" self on a defence map, i knew i wasted 8 forma and adapter. Atleast i haven't invested shards in this bitch. RIP Wizard
Octavia more op yet Dante gets nerf week 1. Still crazy. I am using a Octavia build that legit make her one of the best weapons damage booster.
Appreciate the refresh. My old build still has the forma centered around tragedy still. Now I gotta fix that AND forma Noctua.
No you dont, Tragedy is still fantastic. You just have to look at enemies and not at a wall.
Thanks comment section I was thinking of buying him b4 the slaughter im good now
He got nerfed into my helmith after they ruined him beyond comprehension.
Was fun using him back to using gyre for me