Imagining a fucked version of silver snow where all the eagles side against you as chapter bosses in the same vein as how you have to fight the opposing royals in fates birthright and conquest
i was really hoping that'd be the case to give the faculty some time in the spotlight, but instead it's the same characters as Cirmson flower except with Seteth instead of Edelgard & Hubert. not to mention Silver snow is actually one of the worst routes to do an all faculty playthrough despite it being thematically appropriate, because the game won't let you recruit Cyril or Catherine until you're locked into SS, leaving you with just Shamir & Flayn for the majority of White Clouds. It's baffling because like those two, Flayns also leaves if you go CF yet you still can get her, so just let us recruit the other two from the start as well.
This is probably one of the most interesting hidden details I’ve seen in this game. Kinda interesting how they opted to include edelgards dialogue but not the convos in the end.
This is one thing that kinda gets on my nerves in this FE game: during the school act, if you are playing on Classic, you lose characters when they get defeated, and they disappear, even though they do not actually die. This applies even to those various grindable "training exercises" with Monastery's forces.
It was planned for the students to be able to leave your class, so this is probably how it would have worked and one of the reasons they don't die on part one. And I remember some training exercises killed my characters while others didn't, tbf I've only played 3H so I can't say much but even then I also noticed the dying system being weirdly implemented
Stuff like that's been a thing in the series before, but it's usually reserved for characters with high amounts of plot relevance, IDK why the students get this same treatment all of the time throughout part 1
@@KorotasGeckoGamingCorner Well, imagine what would Seteth or Rhea (or even the parents lol) say if one of the students really dies. It would be a scandal that would have changed de story.
@@Sina-dv1eg All of them are in near-death situations in every chapter - it’s part of being a mercenary. I think it’s more reasonable to assume they’re badly wounded and sent home to recover long term.
This reminds me of how in the golden deer route lysitheas A support is different and she tells you her backstory because of the masked warlocks at the last battle instead of her telling byleth because she fainted during training
With this line I now want to imagine a verison of Silver Snow that makes it so only students you've supported to at least a B Rank (of at the affection where B Rank is available timeskip since some are locked) to join you or are given the chance to spare in battle, factor that with maybe rewriting the story of Silver Snow to make it a Rhea route that would probably make things really interesting.
That would make more sense for Crimson Flower, since that's the route that's hardest to justify joining. Especially for those from other houses, who usually just use the excuse "Well the professor is here so..."
@@daz1543 that is very true and I agree with how the lack of justification for students joining that route is kinda dumb in general, maybe making a spare condition in battle could work but only if you limit it...tho it would still feel off given the dialog entering battle with them. As for the idea with Black Eagles students refusing to join you, it's kinda hard to really justify recruiting them after timeskip in the other chapters away from the empire fighting against their homeland. Crimson Flower is a tight mess where if you change something in it, most of it can fall apart so it takes rewriting everything about it to make major changes like that, which it definitely needs.
The problem is some student isn't available to B support until War. So they need to redo the whole thing. I guess C should suffice. (Player can simply reject or not watch support conversation to stop earning support ranks)
@@TheZombie2415 yeah I actually mentioned that in my comment (the part where I said the affection to a point where you can unlock B Rank after timeskip) though yeah they had to reformate it if they want it to make more sense, though I went B cause most players could probably easily get to a C with everyone in class during battles unless they really like making their leths anti-social
Yup. There's a lot of concepts and ideas cut from BE/Silver Snow specifically. Edelgard was originally going to be able to interfere with the Divine Pulse, since she too has the Crest of Flames. Another is this: fallen part 1 students would side with her.
Dude, Edelgard being able to interfere with / limit the divine pulse would have made me actually play silver snow. As it is, I could never bring myself to go against Edelgard when I took the black eagles route. I did complete all the others, though.
I sided with Edelgard first precisely because she is who Byleth saves and who triggers Byleth's first Divine Pulse. I thought there was going to be more significance to that, but nope. Good to know they did having something planned, but it's a shame nothing interesting happens with Byleth at all in CF. Ended up struggling to get through the route cause she annoyed me so much...
Shame that and Annette and Felix leaving to join the Empire in AM if you go after the Empire instead of saving the kingdom's capital was cut, those two elements definitely would've been interesting.
Honestly, it would've been cool if the fallen Black Eagles showed up as enemies in Classic Mode Silver Snow since you lose them regardless. I never played Classic Mode though so I guess it wouldn't have effected me.
If she says some of the Black Eagles have joined me in SS, she's potentially correct.*Some* of them probably do, but not necessarily any named characters. There are students who exist at the academy who aren't named, after all. The generic students who never actually attend your classes xD if they're loyal to the empire, they'd have joined her in SS. But they're not characters we care about so it's meaningless to the player.
If that were the case, the dialogue should show up even if none of your characters fell in battle, so I'm sure it was meant to be more than that. Although, since the feature of characters being able to leave your class was scrapped, it's a nice way to justify its inclusion
@@elnchou Well, keep in mind, the dialogue can't have such unlimited options, after all. Petra has no reason to return to the empire if she was hurt in part 1; she's a foreign princess who has her own country. So with her "retreat" it makes perfect sense that she'd just go back home and not join Edelgard in SS. But if Ferdinand got hurt? It's different for him. His father is under house arrest so he could be forced against his will to comply. That's just 2 examples. But they can't make dialogue for each individual student on SS, it would be too much of a hassle. So they probably just made a generic line but kept the main students away from the plot, because it serves as a punishment for "losing" units in part 1.
@@l.n.3372 Being completely honest, I don't get exactly where are you going with this, but I agree that it isn't specific on the slightest. Although, I think Petra following Edelgard here wouldn't be that weird to write considering she follows her on every other route when you don't recruit her. We can only imagine on which phase of development this was added, so you could be right and it was added just to acknowledge they were still around.
@@elnchou Petra stays with the Black Eagles because she's hard coded to do such. That doesn't mean it's a good reason for WHY she does it. Why in the world would a foreign princess with no stake in the war choose to die in a war that doesn't affect her people? It's kinda silly. Edelgard even tells Petra to retreat at Gronder in AM/VW yet Petra returns again to die at Enbarr. What a silly decision. It would have made far more sense if Petra retreated after Gronder and she doesn't die at Enbarr. Summary of our conversation: Your complaint was about the random line of dialogue. I explained that it was probably just the generic line to use because they cannot insert 7+ different unique dialogue depending on which character returns. As for WHY these characters aren't enemies either, that's simply a punishment to the player. You lost the unit, you failed, you suck. So they don't show up in the story anymore. It's basically a way to show that there's a consequence for losing students.
@@l.n.3372 Yeah, I get it, I wasn't trying to say it was logical on the story, but if they went along on other routes they probably would have done the same on this one. I've heard it was confirmed that the feature was planned and there is unused battle dialogue suggesting it both on Azure Moon and Verdant Wind. Imo, a character that once was close to you fighting on the enemy's side would be punishing too, even more than them just dissapearing as it would show you the consequences of your actions instead of just implying them. Even then, I get now what you meant and you opened another possibility on the matter so thank you for sharing it, I wouldn't have thought of this by myself
My theory for reason the line is there despite it not being reflected in the actual game is that recording lines likely began late 2018 as Cristina Vee was still the English VA for Edelgard or at least a temp one until Tara Platt and at that point the developers had a mostly complete game idea with many of the features we would have seen still in the game, then early 2019 had them delay the game a bit from spring 2019 to July 2019 probably because they optimized the game so poorly code wise and for a Fire Emblem Game(mainly how you can find many items from the first Fire Emblem warriors left over in the code and because they chose to model entire towns for the zoom in mode despite it making no logical sense for one to play that way)so they likely had to rework and cut some stuff like students leaving your house and this was a leftover from the code the which would have implemented that feature, but no trigger for it appears in game.
Christina Vee was never anything more than a voice they got for the trailer. In any case, the recording of English dialogue has no bearing on development. Even unused dialogue gets dubbed because the voice over production has no idea of what dialogue is or isn't used. Same reason why unused content such as items also gets localised.
@@jasonwalker4003 I think the exact heart wrenching quote is " And Ferdie was there. We killed Ferdie, Professor, he used to be our friend. Do you remember those days?
Wait, how do you save Ferdinand? I had b support with him and he still joined edelgard in blue lions route. He was a commander objective of the map, so i could not ignore him as well
One thing i wished they did in the Crimson Flower route, is give you a bonus or acknowledge if you let all the holy stones get taken just before deciding to side with Edelgard... The stones are a sideobjective for you, but the main mission for Edelgard, so i would have lowed it if you got something just after you make the choice to join her!
Probably a bridge too far for the developers as it would essentially implicate the protagonist, and by proxy the player, in genocide and grave-robbing. There's a reason they try to write Demonic Beasts out of the game if you choose Crimson Flower.
@@brandonjuno Yeah but the problem is, there's no internal consistency in CF. Edelgard as the Flame Emperor is after the crest stones in the holy tomb on every route. And then - without any true explanation - on CF later on, there's no dialogue ever about the crest stones that WERE stolen. It's something that CF should have brought up as a sign of good character development. Which it forgot to do.
@@l.n.3372 It's less that they forgot, and more that there's no way to spin it as anything but an extreme moral transgression. So they just didn't talk about it at all. It is absolutely depraved.
@@brandonjuno True enough, but i just love it when a game pretty much gives you the "i see you played the game before!"... Just that tiny nod that you would have to know what comes next to ever make the decission, like when a game calls you out for getting a treasure that you can't really stumble upon on your own without following a questline, simply because you found it before and don't need the quest on a second playthrough!
I suspect that between this dialogue and the cut Felix and Annette enemies in Azure Moon, the plan was originally for students lost in Classic mode during the Academy phase to turn against you in the War phase. In fact, I suspect that if you hack your save game to make Lorenz unrecruited in Golden Deer similarly to how Felix and Annette were found in Azure Moon, he'll show up as an enemy at the Great Bridge of Myrddin.
That's what I thought too, on this same play through I realized they even talk like they're unrecruited at the monastery. And yes, you're actually right, the same guy who uploaded that cut dialogue in Azure Moon also uploaded another one with Claude vs Lorenz on Verdant Wind
Something similar happens in AM. With Japanese voices there is a line of dialogue that Dimitri gives only if Bernie is recruited and still alive when the scene occurs. I dont remember it entirely but the main thing is Byleth remarks that Dimitri is acting like a shut-in to which Dimitri says something along the lines of "Dont compare me to Bernadetta."
Most infuriating fake decision for me was on Remire, I wasted like (at least) 5 minutes thinking what to answer to the flame emperor and then I discovered it didn't even matter 🥲
@@AshenDust_ Still, imagine being able to do crimson flower from any house, you would lose the students from your main house and have to fight them later on like you normally do in crimson.
Given the massive amount of voiced dialogue, they probably started recording as soon as they could or something. Even Jeralt and Sothis have playable voice lines. Three houses has an interesting amount of unused content tbh
@@elnchou The amount of voiced dialogue lines that change based on little details is staggering. One I really liked is during Yuri's A support. If you see the support during a chapter that is after the official end of the war (IE after fighting El in the Palace), he refers to the war in past tense.
@@TonyRedgrave WHAT The attention to detail on the supports convos really is on another level One I'll never forget is the Marianne/Ashe A support after seeing the Marianne/Sylvain's B. Sylvain tells Marianne about the value of a smile and then she repeats his words to Ashe, and it only happens if you saw them on that order. She's not even from the blue lions lol
@@elnchou Another cool one is Mercedes and Felix's C support where she compares him to her brother. If you do that support after doing the Mercedes/Caspar paralogue, Felix actually says. "Your brother is Jeritza, the Death Knight."
I played in casual since I just want to have fun but man that is an interesting line to hear for nothing to come of. ...I really wonder since (from what I know) FE3H sold well they could maybe update to clean/fix it up a bit, especially with Three Hopes coming soon.
I mean, I think I read that they were originally going to have them show up if that happened. Would have been interesting. Some of the Eagles would so realistically choose Edelgard no matter what.
i actually heard this dialogue on my 1st playthrough so i didn't know that this was excusive dialogue, i just intruded it as them joining edelgard for the time being
I really wish we got to see all the variables in cutscenes, there's so much and it's really nice to see. During my B/E playthrough, one of my units died, and when celebrating the victory of the Battle of eagle and Lion, Dorothea accepted Ferdinand's offer of tea or whatever it was, instead of rejecting it.
It is kind a shame that three houses did not play around with the mechanics more. There are so many opportunities to do something unique, even if it could possibly annoy some of the players. I know it’s extra code/time/dialogue recording but I definitely think silver snow could use some black eagles defecting to Edelgard just for that extra “ouch”. And silver snow could have also implemented that cut feature of Edelgard negating turn rewinds. I just think if Silver Snow was meant to be the “main” route it should have played around more with the game mechanics, considering there are two/three other routes that can just proceed normally. I do think if CF and SS are meant to be similar but sort of inversions of each other it would be interesting to see Edelgard as more of an emotional/mechanically frustrating threat to players who did not connect with her particularly in silver snow. And it would make CF more rewarding because you know you aren’t on the opposite end of those frustrations. Just a missed opportunity for me, but the game is already complex and so I see why it didn’t happen.
There is apparently unused data in the game that suggest that black eagles that fell in part one would've shown up on Edelgard's side in Silver Snow, in the same places you fight them in Verdant Wind
I recruited every student and faculty on a silver snow playthrough once and only Lorenz and hanneman fell. I got the normal dialogue saying Lorenz sided with the empire. I haven't gotten to his fight yet though so I don't know if he is there
Maybe it's just my imagination or something, there's also differences in some S support text between English and Japanese. Dorothea JP version said something about "But I am a girl" which never mentioned in English version as the localisation for bi characters has mostly the same sentence for the S support lol. Which is possible because they might plans differences context for some of the same sex support but limits it to very few characters and all of them somehow were the same thing for both byleth gender.
Yeah, the English dialogue is not a direct translation so it's different from time to time. I played the game with the text on spanish, and I noticed on Alois/Gilbert B support, Alois asked if Gilbert was a vegetarian because he wasn't eating the fish, while the translation said something like "Is something wrong? Maybe I can help". I like the English one more though
If they did only just go back to Edelgard’s side and we never see them (outside of Hubert) again, it is likely they died at Gronder Field, without Byleth’s support, all three armies suffer heavily.
I had no idea what I was getting myself into when I clicked on this video. In my head, I thought that when a Black Eagle student got defeated in Part I, Edelgard would then start waxing poetic right after, and start by saying "Like the silver snow..." I had no idea that just happened to be the name of Edelgard's Reunion At Dawn scene lmao.
This is an awesome hidden detail! My favorite is the party after the battle of the eagle and lion, when Ferdinand asks Dorothea to dance. If they don’t have any support, she refuses, but if they have I think C support she accepts
Wait, they never show up again... Well then, new strat: Recruit all available blue lions/golden deer students with new game+ then kill off all black eagles students before timeskip. First timeskip chapter might be hell though...
If anyone "dies" before part two they don't really die anyway. They say that they retreat and in the epilogue it says that they never were able to reunite with you or something to that effect. In part two if someone falls they just straight up die right there, so this all holds up with the mechanics of the game.
@@TheZombie2415 As an example, if Dorothea "dies" in part one, her epilogue is that she ran off with the Opera company. If Cyril dies, he gets killed by monsters while looking for Rhea. Interestingly enough, if Lorenz dies pre time skip, he doesn't get an epilogue at all
This is the only scene that implies they may have joined them, but they don't appear again until you reach the credits, saying they couldn't come back to the reunion. So, they probably were meant to join her earlier on development, but it's never specified. You won't fight against them nor see them on cutscenes, if that's what you were wondering.
since the battle at gronder field goes ahead without Byleth in silver snow the students she was talking about ( in this case Petra) probably died there
Since only Edelgard has a route like this one, it's probably an exclusive silver snow thing, but I will check just in case. After all, there are plenty of scenes that change depending of which characters you have at the moment.
@@elnchou well I know Claude talks about waiting for the others to come to the reunion (and I guess his entire route is about opening up and working with others), so maybe he has some changes. I’m not sure about Dimitri, maybe he sees extra “ghosts of his past”.
Honestly, would have reworked it for Silver Snow that all of the Black Eagles except Ferdinand could ditch you post time skip if you didn’t get their supports up high enough or if they had a higher support level with Edelgard. Hammer home the tragedy of the route by having Bernadette replace Dimitri if you didn’t manage to keep her, add some extra details like her having volunteered for the front line or something. Really contrast with Crimson Flower where all the Black Eagles have stuck together all this time and their bonds have only gone stronger vs Silver Snow where conflicting loyalties tear them apart.
Yeah, I guess you know the reason why this wasn't possible was that you would potentially be losing all of your progress when the timeskip comes, which wouldn't be very player-friendly and end up making it so nobody who wants to build their units a specific way would play the route. I think the smartest move would have been that they just join edelgard if you lose them on part one. That said, if they could rework the story to include more of the church characters on part one, maybe they could have pulled something like this and it would've been super tragic, I agree.
@@elnchou seen a couple fanfics that touch on this idea and it gets pretty heartbreaking. I understand why they did it from a gameplay perspective but if there was a house to do it with it is the black eagles because for some of them you are asking a lot for them to turn against the empire especially when a lot of them either have very serious obligations to the empire or zero reason to stay loyal to the church. Ferdinand really is the only one who stands out and I would absolutely have wanted him to step up and really be Byleth’s tie back to their humanity versus their Nabatean connection with Seteth and Flayn. I think silver snow would be so much better to genuinely double down on the more tragic elements and the conflict of byleth’s free will/humanity vs destiny/role Rhea ordained for them/the Nabateans.
I mean, she says "friends from our Black Eagle days" not "our friends", so she obviously doesn't mean all of them. All of the named Black Eagles apart from Hubert, and Edelgard herself join Byleth on the Silver Snow route anyway.
Well, if you want to know: No, you play with the black eagles except for Hubert and Edelgard. Although for what I remember, Alois, Catherine, Seteth and Cyril (I think) automatically join your party. I think Shamir must be done by yourself, while Gilbert and Judith can't be recruited at all. As a fun fact: Silver Snow is actually the only route without an exclusive unit. Not even Rhea :(
Darker theory: She’s bluffing that those characters will make a full recovery from their injuries and rejoin just to manipulate you. Since they are never seen again it implies they did not recover and died from their wounds later. Or she had them killed because they would have joined you.
It's heartbreaking to pick another house once you already got attached in your first playthrough. I've seen people do that before so don't worry, you're not the only one haha
The one thing I don't like about the game is there is no Fates version where you just knock each of your kids on the head and tell them all to stop trying to kill eachother.
Well that would kind of betray the point of the game. The three leaders have different visions for the future that simply cannot coexist. As a teacher and friend to one of them, you can guide only that one to the best version of the future they envision. This is the first FE game that truly recognizes the brutality of children fighting wars, and I appreciate that.
I don't know if I could properly explain to you just how much I despised the fact that Fates had a 'golden ending'. I played it all, and I was exceptionally disappointed. Three Houses made the right choice. War doesn't have pretty answers. Fire Emblem has a running theme of not wanting friends and allies to die, because they know a substantial plurality of players don't let that happen to their units. That's fine on the sidelines, (Multiple of Robin's supports show him studying tactics relentlessly because of this, for example) but it should be left out of the core writing.
The Ashen Wolves DLC campaign is probably the closest you’ll get. I’m kind of glad there isn’t because it would make the house chosen at the beginning pointless. Would it have been cool for the three lords to work through their issues together instead of on their own? Yes. But I appreciate that Edelgard’s belief in Fodlan’s future without the Church of Seiros is what creates conflict; I admire Dimitri’s desire to see past wrongs be made right and learning to forgive; I would love to see Fodlan freed as Claude does. If the only goal was to rid Fodlan of TWSITD, maybe there could’ve been a way for the four factions to work together, but it would be temporary and uneasy. No matter what scenario I can think of, there’s eventual conflict between the Empire and the Church; meaning you’ll draw either Rhea or Edelgard’s ire.
@@zane33611 To be fair, 3/4 people could probably get together quite well, the fourth, tried to kill 2 of them since the beginning, has the long term goal of killing the third, and has started a continent wide war of conquest.
@@thestylemage2092 claude and edelgard would go along as well though. he admits he would be the one starting a war of conquest if edelgard wasn't the one declaring it first, also you have the option to spare him which again is the canon version since iirc it's the version in the event gallery (just how she spares Flayn and Seteth). he also has the same goals as edelgard, but a long time different vision. which makes me quite mad that Claude's route sides with the church and not with Edelgard tbh
Imagining a fucked version of silver snow where all the eagles side against you as chapter bosses in the same vein as how you have to fight the opposing royals in fates birthright and conquest
I was sure it was going to be this terrible
that'd be great! it would make silver snow feel less like a sorta nothing route
Truly does feel like your choices have consequences and makes you feel alone
Yeah like forcing you to rely on out of house recruits and church units would be a fun challenge
i was really hoping that'd be the case to give the faculty some time in the spotlight, but instead it's the same characters as Cirmson flower except with Seteth instead of Edelgard & Hubert.
not to mention Silver snow is actually one of the worst routes to do an all faculty playthrough despite it being thematically appropriate, because the game won't let you recruit Cyril or Catherine until you're locked into SS, leaving you with just Shamir & Flayn for the majority of White Clouds. It's baffling because like those two, Flayns also leaves if you go CF yet you still can get her, so just let us recruit the other two from the start as well.
This is probably one of the most interesting hidden details I’ve seen in this game. Kinda interesting how they opted to include edelgards dialogue but not the convos in the end.
This is one thing that kinda gets on my nerves in this FE game: during the school act, if you are playing on Classic, you lose characters when they get defeated, and they disappear, even though they do not actually die. This applies even to those various grindable "training exercises" with Monastery's forces.
It was planned for the students to be able to leave your class, so this is probably how it would have worked and one of the reasons they don't die on part one. And I remember some training exercises killed my characters while others didn't, tbf I've only played 3H so I can't say much but even then I also noticed the dying system being weirdly implemented
Stuff like that's been a thing in the series before, but it's usually reserved for characters with high amounts of plot relevance, IDK why the students get this same treatment all of the time throughout part 1
I always interpreted as them switching houses because their teacher put them in a near-death situation
@@KorotasGeckoGamingCorner Well, imagine what would Seteth or Rhea (or even the parents lol) say if one of the students really dies. It would be a scandal that would have changed de story.
@@Sina-dv1eg All of them are in near-death situations in every chapter - it’s part of being a mercenary.
I think it’s more reasonable to assume they’re badly wounded and sent home to recover long term.
This reminds me of how in the golden deer route lysitheas A support is different and she tells you her backstory because of the masked warlocks at the last battle instead of her telling byleth because she fainted during training
With this line I now want to imagine a verison of Silver Snow that makes it so only students you've supported to at least a B Rank (of at the affection where B Rank is available timeskip since some are locked) to join you or are given the chance to spare in battle, factor that with maybe rewriting the story of Silver Snow to make it a Rhea route that would probably make things really interesting.
That would make more sense for Crimson Flower, since that's the route that's hardest to justify joining. Especially for those from other houses, who usually just use the excuse "Well the professor is here so..."
@@daz1543 that is very true and I agree with how the lack of justification for students joining that route is kinda dumb in general, maybe making a spare condition in battle could work but only if you limit it...tho it would still feel off given the dialog entering battle with them. As for the idea with Black Eagles students refusing to join you, it's kinda hard to really justify recruiting them after timeskip in the other chapters away from the empire fighting against their homeland. Crimson Flower is a tight mess where if you change something in it, most of it can fall apart so it takes rewriting everything about it to make major changes like that, which it definitely needs.
The problem is some student isn't available to B support until War.
So they need to redo the whole thing.
I guess C should suffice.
(Player can simply reject or not watch support conversation to stop earning support ranks)
@@TheZombie2415 yeah I actually mentioned that in my comment (the part where I said the affection to a point where you can unlock B Rank after timeskip) though yeah they had to reformate it if they want it to make more sense, though I went B cause most players could probably easily get to a C with everyone in class during battles unless they really like making their leths anti-social
Is Silver Snow not a Rhea route…it was like, the only one I never did lol. I couldn’t bare to say no to Edelgard :’((
Yup. There's a lot of concepts and ideas cut from BE/Silver Snow specifically. Edelgard was originally going to be able to interfere with the Divine Pulse, since she too has the Crest of Flames. Another is this: fallen part 1 students would side with her.
Dude, Edelgard being able to interfere with / limit the divine pulse would have made me actually play silver snow. As it is, I could never bring myself to go against Edelgard when I took the black eagles route. I did complete all the others, though.
I sided with Edelgard first precisely because she is who Byleth saves and who triggers Byleth's first Divine Pulse. I thought there was going to be more significance to that, but nope. Good to know they did having something planned, but it's a shame nothing interesting happens with Byleth at all in CF. Ended up struggling to get through the route cause she annoyed me so much...
Shame that and Annette and Felix leaving to join the Empire in AM if you go after the Empire instead of saving the kingdom's capital was cut, those two elements definitely would've been interesting.
Honestly, it would've been cool if the fallen Black Eagles showed up as enemies in Classic Mode Silver Snow since you lose them regardless. I never played Classic Mode though so I guess it wouldn't have effected me.
If she says some of the Black Eagles have joined me in SS, she's potentially correct.*Some* of them probably do, but not necessarily any named characters. There are students who exist at the academy who aren't named, after all. The generic students who never actually attend your classes xD if they're loyal to the empire, they'd have joined her in SS. But they're not characters we care about so it's meaningless to the player.
If that were the case, the dialogue should show up even if none of your characters fell in battle, so I'm sure it was meant to be more than that. Although, since the feature of characters being able to leave your class was scrapped, it's a nice way to justify its inclusion
@@elnchou
Well, keep in mind, the dialogue can't have such unlimited options, after all. Petra has no reason to return to the empire if she was hurt in part 1; she's a foreign princess who has her own country. So with her "retreat" it makes perfect sense that she'd just go back home and not join Edelgard in SS. But if Ferdinand got hurt? It's different for him. His father is under house arrest so he could be forced against his will to comply. That's just 2 examples. But they can't make dialogue for each individual student on SS, it would be too much of a hassle. So they probably just made a generic line but kept the main students away from the plot, because it serves as a punishment for "losing" units in part 1.
@@l.n.3372 Being completely honest, I don't get exactly where are you going with this, but I agree that it isn't specific on the slightest. Although, I think Petra following Edelgard here wouldn't be that weird to write considering she follows her on every other route when you don't recruit her.
We can only imagine on which phase of development this was added, so you could be right and it was added just to acknowledge they were still around.
@@elnchou
Petra stays with the Black Eagles because she's hard coded to do such. That doesn't mean it's a good reason for WHY she does it. Why in the world would a foreign princess with no stake in the war choose to die in a war that doesn't affect her people? It's kinda silly. Edelgard even tells Petra to retreat at Gronder in AM/VW yet Petra returns again to die at Enbarr. What a silly decision. It would have made far more sense if Petra retreated after Gronder and she doesn't die at Enbarr.
Summary of our conversation:
Your complaint was about the random line of dialogue. I explained that it was probably just the generic line to use because they cannot insert 7+ different unique dialogue depending on which character returns. As for WHY these characters aren't enemies either, that's simply a punishment to the player. You lost the unit, you failed, you suck. So they don't show up in the story anymore. It's basically a way to show that there's a consequence for losing students.
@@l.n.3372 Yeah, I get it, I wasn't trying to say it was logical on the story, but if they went along on other routes they probably would have done the same on this one.
I've heard it was confirmed that the feature was planned and there is unused battle dialogue suggesting it both on Azure Moon and Verdant Wind. Imo, a character that once was close to you fighting on the enemy's side would be punishing too, even more than them just dissapearing as it would show you the consequences of your actions instead of just implying them. Even then, I get now what you meant and you opened another possibility on the matter so thank you for sharing it, I wouldn't have thought of this by myself
My theory for reason the line is there despite it not being reflected in the actual game is that recording lines likely began late 2018 as Cristina Vee was still the English VA for Edelgard or at least a temp one until Tara Platt and at that point the developers had a mostly complete game idea with many of the features we would have seen still in the game, then early 2019 had them delay the game a bit from spring 2019 to July 2019 probably because they optimized the game so poorly code wise and for a Fire Emblem Game(mainly how you can find many items from the first Fire Emblem warriors left over in the code and because they chose to model entire towns for the zoom in mode despite it making no logical sense for one to play that way)so they likely had to rework and cut some stuff like students leaving your house and this was a leftover from the code the which would have implemented that feature, but no trigger for it appears in game.
Interesting, I'm also sure it's related to cut content. I didn't know the game was delayed though, they definitely were short on time while making it.
Christina Vee was never anything more than a voice they got for the trailer. In any case, the recording of English dialogue has no bearing on development. Even unused dialogue gets dubbed because the voice over production has no idea of what dialogue is or isn't used. Same reason why unused content such as items also gets localised.
I wonder if other lords have similar lines like this as well.
I know Dorothea acknowledges Ferdinand's death if you choose to kill him.
"We killed Ferdie..."
Most guy wrenching line in the game
@@jasonwalker4003 I think the exact heart wrenching quote is " And Ferdie was there. We killed Ferdie, Professor, he used to be our friend. Do you remember those days?
Wait, how do you save Ferdinand? I had b support with him and he still joined edelgard in blue lions route. He was a commander objective of the map, so i could not ignore him as well
@@fahimauric4663 You have to recruit him in your team before the end of Part 1. The support alone is insufficient
One thing i wished they did in the Crimson Flower route, is give you a bonus or acknowledge if you let all the holy stones get taken just before deciding to side with Edelgard...
The stones are a sideobjective for you, but the main mission for Edelgard, so i would have lowed it if you got something just after you make the choice to join her!
I never even thought about that, it would have been an impressive but logical detail, since you helped her before even going to her side
Probably a bridge too far for the developers as it would essentially implicate the protagonist, and by proxy the player, in genocide and grave-robbing. There's a reason they try to write Demonic Beasts out of the game if you choose Crimson Flower.
@@brandonjuno
Yeah but the problem is, there's no internal consistency in CF. Edelgard as the Flame Emperor is after the crest stones in the holy tomb on every route. And then - without any true explanation - on CF later on, there's no dialogue ever about the crest stones that WERE stolen. It's something that CF should have brought up as a sign of good character development. Which it forgot to do.
@@l.n.3372 It's less that they forgot, and more that there's no way to spin it as anything but an extreme moral transgression. So they just didn't talk about it at all. It is absolutely depraved.
@@brandonjuno True enough, but i just love it when a game pretty much gives you the "i see you played the game before!"...
Just that tiny nod that you would have to know what comes next to ever make the decission, like when a game calls you out for getting a treasure that you can't really stumble upon on your own without following a questline, simply because you found it before and don't need the quest on a second playthrough!
I suspect that between this dialogue and the cut Felix and Annette enemies in Azure Moon, the plan was originally for students lost in Classic mode during the Academy phase to turn against you in the War phase. In fact, I suspect that if you hack your save game to make Lorenz unrecruited in Golden Deer similarly to how Felix and Annette were found in Azure Moon, he'll show up as an enemy at the Great Bridge of Myrddin.
That's what I thought too, on this same play through I realized they even talk like they're unrecruited at the monastery.
And yes, you're actually right, the same guy who uploaded that cut dialogue in Azure Moon also uploaded another one with Claude vs Lorenz on Verdant Wind
Something similar happens in AM. With Japanese voices there is a line of dialogue that Dimitri gives only if Bernie is recruited and still alive when the scene occurs.
I dont remember it entirely but the main thing is Byleth remarks that Dimitri is acting like a shut-in to which Dimitri says something along the lines of "Dont compare me to Bernadetta."
Wow now I like him even less
oh i got that line! loll it felt out of place but definitely had a chuckle
It was a thing for they to join her, but strangely the updated versions got rid of this.
Still makes me so sad and angry that you can't take her up on the offer.
Most infuriating fake decision for me was on Remire, I wasted like (at least) 5 minutes thinking what to answer to the flame emperor and then I discovered it didn't even matter 🥲
@@elnchou I feel like these choices could have meant more if they had more time. Ideas certainly were not their issue
That would just be Crimson Flower
@@AshenDust_ Still, imagine being able to do crimson flower from any house, you would lose the students from your main house and have to fight them later on like you normally do in crimson.
@@Mikauo_Xblade that’s literally just Crimson Flower. Also this dialogue only happens in Silver Snow anyways, which requires you to take Black Eagles
that would have been so cool! glad to know now every route feels as if a cool feature was cut
That's an awesome detail.
Do you ever just leave in a VOICED dialogue line from a feature that was never implemented
Given the massive amount of voiced dialogue, they probably started recording as soon as they could or something. Even Jeralt and Sothis have playable voice lines.
Three houses has an interesting amount of unused content tbh
@@elnchou The amount of voiced dialogue lines that change based on little details is staggering. One I really liked is during Yuri's A support. If you see the support during a chapter that is after the official end of the war (IE after fighting El in the Palace), he refers to the war in past tense.
@@TonyRedgrave WHAT
The attention to detail on the supports convos really is on another level
One I'll never forget is the Marianne/Ashe A support after seeing the Marianne/Sylvain's B. Sylvain tells Marianne about the value of a smile and then she repeats his words to Ashe, and it only happens if you saw them on that order. She's not even from the blue lions lol
@@elnchou WHAT
Now that's cool. It's even more impressive that it's cross house. God the characters in this game are amazing.
@@elnchou Another cool one is Mercedes and Felix's C support where she compares him to her brother. If you do that support after doing the Mercedes/Caspar paralogue, Felix actually says. "Your brother is Jeritza, the Death Knight."
How dare you let best girl die
Believe me, I didn't mean to 😢
You mean Best Girl's Wife, Other Best Girl.
No, no, Hilda was still alive.
I played in casual since I just want to have fun but man that is an interesting line to hear for nothing to come of.
...I really wonder since (from what I know) FE3H sold well they could maybe update to clean/fix it up a bit, especially with Three Hopes coming soon.
The game could become much better if they did, but sadly I think after all this time, it's unlikely they'll change anything :(
@@elnchou Yeah, that's true. But hey it's still really good!
@@RetroNerdyGamer That's true, I enjoyed every minute of it!
I really hope they could do some remaster mainly to clean CF routes and probably some other routes that may branches.
I mean, I think I read that they were originally going to have them show up if that happened. Would have been interesting. Some of the Eagles would so realistically choose Edelgard no matter what.
i actually heard this dialogue on my 1st playthrough so i didn't know that this was excusive dialogue, i just intruded it as them joining edelgard for the time being
I really wish we got to see all the variables in cutscenes, there's so much and it's really nice to see.
During my B/E playthrough, one of my units died, and when celebrating the victory of the Battle of eagle and Lion, Dorothea accepted Ferdinand's offer of tea or whatever it was, instead of rejecting it.
It is kind a shame that three houses did not play around with the mechanics more. There are so many opportunities to do something unique, even if it could possibly annoy some of the players. I know it’s extra code/time/dialogue recording but I definitely think silver snow could use some black eagles defecting to Edelgard just for that extra “ouch”. And silver snow could have also implemented that cut feature of Edelgard negating turn rewinds. I just think if Silver Snow was meant to be the “main” route it should have played around more with the game mechanics, considering there are two/three other routes that can just proceed normally. I do think if CF and SS are meant to be similar but sort of inversions of each other it would be interesting to see Edelgard as more of an emotional/mechanically frustrating threat to players who did not connect with her particularly in silver snow. And it would make CF more rewarding because you know you aren’t on the opposite end of those frustrations. Just a missed opportunity for me, but the game is already complex and so I see why it didn’t happen.
There is apparently unused data in the game that suggest that black eagles that fell in part one would've shown up on Edelgard's side in Silver Snow, in the same places you fight them in Verdant Wind
I recruited every student and faculty on a silver snow playthrough once and only Lorenz and hanneman fell. I got the normal dialogue saying Lorenz sided with the empire. I haven't gotten to his fight yet though so I don't know if he is there
When Lorenz falls in SS/AM he is replaced by the same NPC that replaces him on VW. Same for Ashe in VW/SS
“friends from our black eagle days” oh you mean the 6’2” sleep paralysis demon who lurks behind you? that friend?
Maybe it's just my imagination or something, there's also differences in some S support text between English and Japanese.
Dorothea JP version said something about "But I am a girl" which never mentioned in English version as the localisation for bi characters has mostly the same sentence for the S support lol.
Which is possible because they might plans differences context for some of the same sex support but limits it to very few characters and all of them somehow were the same thing for both byleth gender.
Yeah, the English dialogue is not a direct translation so it's different from time to time.
I played the game with the text on spanish, and I noticed on Alois/Gilbert B support, Alois asked if Gilbert was a vegetarian because he wasn't eating the fish, while the translation said something like "Is something wrong? Maybe I can help".
I like the English one more though
If they did only just go back to Edelgard’s side and we never see them (outside of Hubert) again, it is likely they died at Gronder Field, without Byleth’s support, all three armies suffer heavily.
Who else got this in their recommendations? 🤗🤗
I had no idea what I was getting myself into when I clicked on this video. In my head, I thought that when a Black Eagle student got defeated in Part I, Edelgard would then start waxing poetic right after, and start by saying "Like the silver snow..." I had no idea that just happened to be the name of Edelgard's Reunion At Dawn scene lmao.
This is an awesome hidden detail! My favorite is the party after the battle of the eagle and lion, when Ferdinand asks Dorothea to dance. If they don’t have any support, she refuses, but if they have I think C support she accepts
That's really cool! I love when they acknowledge the supports you did on other cutscenes, it makes the characters feel alive
I was wondering why I didn’t see this when I played, but then I realized this is the route where you side with the church.
Wait, they never show up again...
Well then, new strat: Recruit all available blue lions/golden deer students with new game+ then kill off all black eagles students before timeskip.
First timeskip chapter might be hell though...
I did something similar, and yes, it certainly was hell. Give Byleth a wyvern and you'll probably have a chance
Three houses
THIS HAPPENED TO ME I WAS LIKE WIFE I KILLED THEM ALL
If anyone "dies" before part two they don't really die anyway. They say that they retreat and in the epilogue it says that they never were able to reunite with you or something to that effect. In part two if someone falls they just straight up die right there, so this all holds up with the mechanics of the game.
If they die in part 1, the ending indeed mention about "unable to attend to reunion or just gone".
Some even mentioned them die in different way lol.
@@TheZombie2415 As an example, if Dorothea "dies" in part one, her epilogue is that she ran off with the Opera company. If Cyril dies, he gets killed by monsters while looking for Rhea.
Interestingly enough, if Lorenz dies pre time skip, he doesn't get an epilogue at all
If this happens to all of your units in this house, do they ALL join Edelgard?
Ferdinand, Caspar, Dorothea, etc?
This is the only scene that implies they may have joined them, but they don't appear again until you reach the credits, saying they couldn't come back to the reunion. So, they probably were meant to join her earlier on development, but it's never specified. You won't fight against them nor see them on cutscenes, if that's what you were wondering.
since the battle at gronder field goes ahead without Byleth in silver snow the students she was talking about ( in this case Petra) probably died there
It's still a bit weird due to the fact that normally she retreats and only dies at the imperial capital
Wonder if the other house leaders have different lines too if everyone else is gone
Since only Edelgard has a route like this one, it's probably an exclusive silver snow thing, but I will check just in case. After all, there are plenty of scenes that change depending of which characters you have at the moment.
@@elnchou well I know Claude talks about waiting for the others to come to the reunion (and I guess his entire route is about opening up and working with others), so maybe he has some changes. I’m not sure about Dimitri, maybe he sees extra “ghosts of his past”.
It would've been easier if someone could datamine the files and text.
What happens if Hubert falls in Part 1 tho? Will he still be a boss in Silver Snow?
Yes, he's right there like nothing happened
@@elnchou Because he can't fall here, he has to make his retreat !
Honestly, would have reworked it for Silver Snow that all of the Black Eagles except Ferdinand could ditch you post time skip if you didn’t get their supports up high enough or if they had a higher support level with Edelgard. Hammer home the tragedy of the route by having Bernadette replace Dimitri if you didn’t manage to keep her, add some extra details like her having volunteered for the front line or something. Really contrast with Crimson Flower where all the Black Eagles have stuck together all this time and their bonds have only gone stronger vs Silver Snow where conflicting loyalties tear them apart.
Yeah, I guess you know the reason why this wasn't possible was that you would potentially be losing all of your progress when the timeskip comes, which wouldn't be very player-friendly and end up making it so nobody who wants to build their units a specific way would play the route. I think the smartest move would have been that they just join edelgard if you lose them on part one.
That said, if they could rework the story to include more of the church characters on part one, maybe they could have pulled something like this and it would've been super tragic, I agree.
@@elnchou seen a couple fanfics that touch on this idea and it gets pretty heartbreaking. I understand why they did it from a gameplay perspective but if there was a house to do it with it is the black eagles because for some of them you are asking a lot for them to turn against the empire especially when a lot of them either have very serious obligations to the empire or zero reason to stay loyal to the church. Ferdinand really is the only one who stands out and I would absolutely have wanted him to step up and really be Byleth’s tie back to their humanity versus their Nabatean connection with Seteth and Flayn. I think silver snow would be so much better to genuinely double down on the more tragic elements and the conflict of byleth’s free will/humanity vs destiny/role Rhea ordained for them/the Nabateans.
I mean, she says "friends from our Black Eagle days" not "our friends", so she obviously doesn't mean all of them. All of the named Black Eagles apart from Hubert, and Edelgard herself join Byleth on the Silver Snow route anyway.
I wonder if silver snow you have to play only with the knights of Seiros
And maybe even with Gilbert and Judith
Well, if you want to know:
No, you play with the black eagles except for Hubert and Edelgard. Although for what I remember, Alois, Catherine, Seteth and Cyril (I think) automatically join your party. I think Shamir must be done by yourself, while Gilbert and Judith can't be recruited at all.
As a fun fact: Silver Snow is actually the only route without an exclusive unit. Not even Rhea :(
@@elnchou i know but if silver snow was only with the knight it will be the true Church Route
Darker theory: She’s bluffing that those characters will make a full recovery from their injuries and rejoin just to manipulate you. Since they are never seen again it implies they did not recover and died from their wounds later. Or she had them killed because they would have joined you.
They really should've joined her.
Thank you! I wouldn't have been able to see this since all I can do is choose Crimson Flower becuase I love Edelgard so much lksd;fsd;lkfjsdklf
It's heartbreaking to pick another house once you already got attached in your first playthrough. I've seen people do that before so don't worry, you're not the only one haha
Same, I played all routes but Silver Snow because Edie has my heart
The one thing I don't like about the game is there is no Fates version where you just knock each of your kids on the head and tell them all to stop trying to kill eachother.
Well that would kind of betray the point of the game. The three leaders have different visions for the future that simply cannot coexist. As a teacher and friend to one of them, you can guide only that one to the best version of the future they envision. This is the first FE game that truly recognizes the brutality of children fighting wars, and I appreciate that.
I don't know if I could properly explain to you just how much I despised the fact that Fates had a 'golden ending'. I played it all, and I was exceptionally disappointed.
Three Houses made the right choice. War doesn't have pretty answers. Fire Emblem has a running theme of not wanting friends and allies to die, because they know a substantial plurality of players don't let that happen to their units. That's fine on the sidelines, (Multiple of Robin's supports show him studying tactics relentlessly because of this, for example) but it should be left out of the core writing.
The Ashen Wolves DLC campaign is probably the closest you’ll get. I’m kind of glad there isn’t because it would make the house chosen at the beginning pointless. Would it have been cool for the three lords to work through their issues together instead of on their own? Yes. But I appreciate that Edelgard’s belief in Fodlan’s future without the Church of Seiros is what creates conflict; I admire Dimitri’s desire to see past wrongs be made right and learning to forgive; I would love to see Fodlan freed as Claude does.
If the only goal was to rid Fodlan of TWSITD, maybe there could’ve been a way for the four factions to work together, but it would be temporary and uneasy. No matter what scenario I can think of, there’s eventual conflict between the Empire and the Church; meaning you’ll draw either Rhea or Edelgard’s ire.
@@zane33611 To be fair, 3/4 people could probably get together quite well, the fourth, tried to kill 2 of them since the beginning, has the long term goal of killing the third, and has started a continent wide war of conquest.
@@thestylemage2092 claude and edelgard would go along as well though. he admits he would be the one starting a war of conquest if edelgard wasn't the one declaring it first, also you have the option to spare him which again is the canon version since iirc it's the version in the event gallery (just how she spares Flayn and Seteth). he also has the same goals as edelgard, but a long time different vision.
which makes me quite mad that Claude's route sides with the church and not with Edelgard tbh
neat
Do their character endings still say they died/disappeared during the time skip?
Yes, I even have the screenshots because it was the first time it happened to me
Edelgard is trash anyway. Claude is da boi
Interesting…
Also, Crimson Flower sux and is worst route.
Edelgard route is best route. She did NOTHING wrong and was 100 percent correct and in the right.
based