I made F1 Ground Effect for my RC Car
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Ground Effects were very effective aerodynamic tools when it came to adding downforce to F1 Cars. But can the add downforce to something as small as an RC Car? Today...we will find out.
Here are some affiliate links to parts used in this video:
The Tires are Gold Hoons on the rear:
amzn.to/3nEkOC9
To use these wheels you will need 17mm adapters similar to these:
amzn.to/3pp7rpH
Silicone Weather Stripping:
amzn.to/44SiKau
The original car was a traxxas slash/Raptor but was heavily modified:
amzn.to/3HMUegL
The Motor was upgraded to a Velineon 3500:
amzn.to/42iG7YQ
The chassis was converted to a low center of gravity (LCG) chassis:
amzn.to/44K7U67
ABS sheet used to form the undertray:
amzn.to/42eNj8D
Please reach out with any questions on other parts! I may make a small commission on the affiliate link sales, but they will not cost you anything.
The visual with the leaf blower was so impressive! You hear that it works, and read that it works, but to see it so simply... that was awesome. Such a cool way to show how the underbody "vacuum" works.
I was really surprised to see it bottom in that test case. I also tried to get it to flip like the clr by pitching up, but it never actually would.
@@EngineeringAfterHours The fluffy assistant was helpful too. The goodest of engineers.
If you haven't scrapped the under tray yet, could you try the leaf blower on it without the sealing strips?
I'm interested in the the difference between, with it and without it.
@@RandomloserDK I believe I show it with and without in the video. In the event I didn't....without the strips I still get some squat, but not nearly a much. I wish I had a wind tunnel...if I had a bigger shop I would definitely build one.
When they say "massive downforce" I still wasn't expecting that.
I think stiffer suspension would improve your cornering ability when testing with the undertray installed. I suspect that the undertray is sliding on the ground through the corners, thus reducing the weight on the tires.
Or a so called third element in the suspension (heaff springs) they are the most important suspension set up for aero beside (ride hight and heaff is the dynamic motion of the suspension/ when all wheels do the same relativ movements to the body (up and down))
@@TheLtVoss just like in Formula 1 where they have the Heave Daper
@@didyouknow5648 ohh Heave not Heaff yeah that was what I meant
To be honest. When under load the ride height reduces. Typically components in ground effect are sensitive. At a certain point the ground clearance becomes too low (due to too steep a adverse pressure gradient) resulting in stall, reducing downforce
@@campbell-skills6605 yep that why I mentioned the Heave spring as third suspension element
It's so realistic, at 4:17 you can see the car porpoising.
I was expecting this to be of minimal effect on an RC car. But that “outdoor wind tunnel” demonstration really surprised me!
Wow just released 11 minutes ago. Will update this comment when I'm done watching.
Edit: Will definitely look forward to the next ground effect video when the parts arrive! Looking at the car bottom out during the leaf blower test was very interesting.
I knew ground effect was powerful but that leaf blower test really puts it into perspective
The original Lotus ground effect car had solid floating side skirts. They performed better than anything else they came up with but feared it would be deemed a moveable aerodynamic device. You could link 2 or 3 side skirts inline to try and achieve maximum suction when driving over uneven surfaces.
Nice work, I love a good bit if Science/Engineering 👌. I used a similar design on my little 90mph WLtoys. A layer of plasticard with some foam strips either side acting as the skirt, not as technical as this, but certainly meant I didn’t have to put an ugly front wing on like a lot of others did running the same car/speed.
I love simple and smart solutions like that! I might have gotten carried away trying to hit a very specific underbody geometry...but i suppose I have backups for more testing at least.
BTW you've almost convinced me the get a WL 284131...looks like a fun little truck.
Awesome video! I do think that ground effects don't really matter during drag race given that the Wheelie of the line disrupts the seal with the floor. Testing around a race track or comparing speed difference between Ground effects and none ground effects around a very high speed corner would be a bigger indicator of it working.
Love the content man!
How did the side skirts hold up sliding across the ground? High degradation or do you think they would last several runs? Awesome project!
It would past a few races. It doesn't tear itself up like my fan cars do.
@@EngineeringAfterHours I would also try too implement heaff springs so that downforce won't cause much suspension traffel (bottom out) and will reduce the wear of the skirts and improve the efficiency of the aero (the ride hight is extremely important for ground effect) also you could try too create vortexes at the side of the car to improve the underground sealing
I never expected to see a leaf blower and the ground effect in action in so much simpler form. Thanks to that, i was so "blown" away.
Haha thanks and I love the pun and the end.
Stiffer rear suspension would work like magic since it will help with adjusting front and rear gap ratios at different speeds.
great video. As a kid these are the sorts of things I wanted to do so its great to see someone actually do it. But ground effects on cars are far more efficient than over body downforce elements and produce far less drag so perhaps that contributed to the almost nill change in speed in the drag race
Engineer = big kid with fun toys
UA-cam's algorithm has withheld this channel from me for way too long!
I'm loving these videos, and learning so much!
A very underrated channel!
Thanks! I'm glad the algorithm is finally on my side lol
@@EngineeringAfterHours Mercedes F1 team should hire you.
Wait 3 minutes ago, IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS FOR SO LONG
I was honestly surprised at the results. Definitely can't wait to get a new transmission in.
@@EngineeringAfterHours Cant wait to see the results! gonna definitely be awesome!
Wow another underated channel this vid helped me alot. Keep it up 👍
Wow! Surprised with the results. Might give it a try with one of my cars myself now looks like quite a fun little project
I just wanted to try it on a smaller rc car but you anticipated me. One of the coolest and more informative video ever seen. Congrats. 👍
Thanks! I need to find a way to put it on other cars too!
Wow what an awesome video!! Really appreciate the effort you put into this video👍🏼👏 I wanted to learn about ground effect on F1 cars and this one really helped! Thank you bro!!
Just a few questions:
1. Whats the reason the front of the car lifts sometimes, is this because of ground effect or just too much torque?
2. Would appreciate if you could do a similar video to this one but instead of using skirts use vortices and aero like the 2022 F1 cars to seal the floor I would love to see a practical example of how the airflow works to seal the floor, if you can.
Thanks once again✌️
After a few races into this season, I was wondering how some teams might research the car more, and one main idea was a Rc car, even though this is not being used with a team or based on a specific one its great to see the idea in effect
Would be cool to see you make a channeled floor like the 2022 cars, now that we have seen what they look like underneath.
I have a tip to fix the horrible understeer and weight distribution, do a mid motor conversion
Definitely a great idea
Your setup is getting pretty serious. Of you haven't already, I would recommend a direct-drive steering servo. I think the "servo-saver" is allowing some play in the wheels during cornering, theyre bobbing around a bit. Just pop a stronger aervo and remove the safety element and get precise steering
Awesome video! It was neat to see actual data and "wind tunnel" tests!
love it, always wth the high quality vids dude.
Thanks!
Out of curiosity, what car do you have that based off? Looks like an arrma, but has many traxxas parts.
Slash 2wd lcg. I use the arrma body because it's the best fitting buggy body I've found for the slash. I use the hoons because they are durable and have a decent amount of grip.
Hi my friend, found your channel when searching for ground effect of F1. Really great & awesome channel. Liked & subbed!😁👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
wow leaf blower testing was super nice
Man that thing got some mad porpoising
your channel is criminally underrated!!!
Thanks! Hopefully we can keep growing!
Maybe use stiffer rear spring to improve the cars handling?
Tips to F1 engineers: Build RC cars exactly to spec as the real deal, infinite practice time
This comment was probably a joke but i really want to know if it works
@@ahmed6472 It won't simulate suspension movement that's for sure. None of all 10 teams's million dollar simulator were able to simulate porpoising let alone a RC car
Try to generate air Vorticities to seal without physical skirts
I wonder if it will work on small scale!
Definitely something I want to try next time. I can't simulate it...but I suppose I can guess and check.
This was insanely fun to watch
Thanks for the kind words!
I really was expecting you to have a million subs, keep going one video hits the recomendations and your set. Sorry for the bad english
What did you use for the skirts? Also, do you think an undertray could be entirely 3D printed if it's cleaned up properly? I'm thinking about doing a similar project myself.
Skirts are "silicone seal strip". The undertray could be fully 3D printed but I recommend something semi flexible like nylon or even PETG. PLA will likely crack too easily.
Great channel. Solid content, good presentation
Thanks!
This a great example of negative ground effect. Good work dude. Also making the rear diffuser longer with a steeper angle will decrease undertray pressure even further.
youre living every f1 fans dream bro
I was definitely happy to see it work! Now for DRS
Pretty cool
My dream.. Could you integrate a drone motor for the purpose of controlling the suspension squat? Possibly program it to activate at certain speeds and or throttle/brake inputs would make this like active suspension?
Congrats on the video, love your projects they are so intrusting ; )
after the fan car and this diffuser car, id love to see a hybrid design of the 2 with the fan behind the diffuser sucking air through and possibly adding a little speed
ahahaha the chap 2j
and double fan too btw
Yes sir awesome video as usual
I was wondering if you would do one more experiment with the underwing I know there's not a whole lot of room under a car but make mounts on the corners of the underwing to attach to the backside of the spindles to support the underwing that the underwing will be unsprung weight so that when the underwing loads up it doesn't calls suspension squat the only thing that it will be doing is mashing the tires the underwing Trey will float separate of the suspension and one other little point when you use your leaf blower WindTunnel if the tires do bulge sitting still and change the underwing ride height that probably won't happen at speed because of centrifical Force own the tires meaning the underwing Trey edges or weather stripping should drag less on the pavement which should give you more control and if this works if you can raise the car chassis our body up in the suspension you can run a more severe underwing Trey under the car creating more downforce which would open up more experiments to play around with
I like that idea as it attempts to do what the 2022 car does...tie the skirt to the wheels. I'll have to think in it to see if it can work, but I'm not sure how the suspension could still flex if I do this.
@@EngineeringAfterHours well if it's a arm suspension or even some form of fierson Mick strut suspension I think you have mentioned you have access to a 3D printer I don't know if any of my thoughts will help because I'm not looking at it but print you something that you can attach to the spindle carrier that won't interfere with the lower a arm once you're able to get on the other side of the a-arm even behind it under the car just make sure it don't get tangled up in the suspension geometry and wherever it's convenient you literally should be able to hang this on short pieces of chain or cable or if you want to get fancy use ball joints a simple hinge may work but if you did it that way your hinge would probably have to sit in slides almost like a spline because as it squashes down in the suspension most suspension geometry the Wheels spread a part ever-so-slightly
And I hope you don't mind me making a second thought I think you mentioned you're trying to do this on a budget and I understand but to be playing around with mechanical downforce or even this idea that we're playing with now with the underwing I think you will save money if you made your gears and transmission case machined out of steel otherwise you're probably going to keep replacing plastic gears with the kind of torque you're going to be sending through them I think you ought to cut to the chase and go with steel I know it's adding weight to the car but with the kind of traction you're going to generate I think you can afford to add a little weight where you're not blowing your transmission up and if it has the internal differential do not leave it out have it machined out of steel and of course go with heavier axles and as far as that motor stalling on the fan car are mechanical downforce car I know you mentioned there's some form of safeties causing it to stall from what I understand I was wondering have you ever seen a refrigerator where the compressor in it is going bad and the compressor doesn't want to start or is dragging when it starts there is a kit you can buy for compressor called a hard to start kit and really all it is is a big capacitor that hits the motor with who knows maybe a thousand volts momentarily just to get the motor turning then it goes back to normal voltage when the car is torquing out of the hole could you do the same thing you're hitting it with a voltage Spike incredibly higher then what the motor is rated for but not long enough to hurt it because if you know anything about racing most races are won or lost at the start but that might stop that car from stumbling but if it works if your drivetrain ain't right with that kind of torque it's definitely going to blow drivetrains
How many people have re-arranged AFTR to FART in your logo?
First time catching a video! Nice info. Thank you!
You're the first! But at a local college...a student did place an "F" in front of the "Art Building"
Well i have to thank you for confirming the vital roll of the side-skirts play to seal the under floor air preaseure from the lower external air preassure.
I wonder if you could use airflow insead of a physical skirt to achieve the same thing? eg tight virtices to create air which rolls from out-to-under the skirt, and thereby by trapping the unfloor air preassure. If you add a leading airfoil section to the lead up to the skirt edge, so that it 'rolls' the air in, towards the skirt, it might create the virtices required. The faster the car, the more air is rolled intowards the skirt area.
Haas testing their aero
Can you make a speed car with the limitless. Like a lot of these rc youtubers are doing because I think with smart aero like the Koenigsegg jesko or ssc tuatara and a normal 8s power train you could hit really high speeds with just using science and engineering.
Great videos
This is on my list...or at least a speed body. Raz Shifrin would have the record if he had good aero.
I was waiting for this video since he posted let’s goooo
Slash Ultimate would be a better test vehicle, it has a much better weight distribution, however its AWD. If you must have RWD to match an F1, I've seen several after market chassis that flips the rear transmission around so that the motor sits in front of the rear tires.
You should try to replicate the porpoising the F1 teams are getting affected by currently
My cluster fuck comment:
I agree, the “wind tunnel” test was shockingly effective. That’s some massive downforce from just under tray at leaf blower pressure. I know some leaf blowers claim “100mph” wind but that’s at the very narrow nozzle and falls off quickly with distance.
One question, why did you add the wings to the ground effect plate? Why not just test the chassis plate by itself to isolate the effects? Adding the wings muddies the results of the ground effects. Also, with downforce comes drag. I’m curious how much drag the ground effects add for a given amount of downforce. And, how that drag to downforce ratio compares to traditional wings.
Also, for top speed and straight line acceleration at speeds above the limit of the tires’ traction downforce is a hindrance as you don’t need the downforce and you still get the drag…and the drag is multiplied at high speeds. Only in cornering and straight line acceleration, where the tires are slipping, does downforce help so is there an easy way to actively vary the amount downforce/drag created by the chassis plate with a servo or something so that it could be added when needed and dialed back when it’s not? Much like the variable pitch wings that were outlawed in racing oh so long ago, you could have the best of both worlds, a slick car with very little drag for fast/straight sections and a car with huge downforce for corners and hard acceleration off the line.
Now you need to combine your ground effect channel, the ground effect fans and the cold gas thruster together into a super RC car. Maybe use the ground effect fans to accelerate air through the ground effect channel by pulling it through. Gordon Murray T50 style
And add a third element in the suspension like f1 or that downforce will bottom out the suspension and remove grip from the tires in any dynamic action
The video was really cool, you do have to keep in mind that ground effect and aerodynamics are used in the corners and will only produce drag in the straight. The car should be producing less g’s in the straight line speed test
The idea that downforce is only used in the corners is a common misconception.
The more down force you have the harder you can accelerate until you're power limited. This is why dragsters produce several tons of downforce.
I'm actually working on a video to help folks understand this.
And ground effect is specifically used because it's minimal drag penalty.
Were there specific radi you used for the curves in the under tray? And dirt air is what my uncle makes after eating a burrito 🌯
I'm very curious to what happens to a F1 car if the ground effect is suddenly lost or damaged, will it fly into air on the straight, can it still make highspeed corners? Or just crash?
Imagine how important the underside of the car will be, no more skipping off corners and driving over curvestones. Are the car forged to drive over "pooltable" flat tarmack? Next seseason, we can expect lots of accidents?
You know what would be cool to test the actual torque of a RC car motor like it 6s motor or something and the actual horsepower like testing that
A set of wheel scales ressesed into a board should allow you to measure down force by the increase in vehicle weight, or am I missing something
You're absolutely correct.
I would love to do load cells on the shocks as well. The problem is that those will also pick up dynamic driving forces from bumps and acceleration, but I can average out.
Great video man, keep pushing!
Thanks!
Have you considered using a better car like a more recent model Associated or Lost Buggy?
maybe testing on a gym floor would help, since it would eliminate unwanted variable, such as wind and bumps.
If you want some ideas for aero then have a look through the Kyle Engineers youtube channel. He goes through lots of stuff. He certainly knows his stuff as he recently spent a year or so working for the Merc F1 team on their aero.
Great channel for sure. I also have a really solid book on aerodynamics from Simon mcbeath that I like to use.
@@EngineeringAfterHours also his later suspension videos ar a great way to maximise the aero effects. I mentioned in a other comment/answer the third element and vortexes for sealing the low pressure under the car basically I just remembered theses videos but forgot too mention that soo would you be so kind to look in too it. it would be great too see these theoretical approaches (ok we know it works look at f1) in real life testing and how effective they are on a smaller scale
Awesome!
If you used stiffer suspension you could reduce the porpoising effect if it occurs
This is a game changer!!! Anyway you can open source your wing design so I Can tweak it to go underneath my Arrma limitless ??? It would help me out tremendously for my next speed run!
Do you have fusion 360 or another cad program?
@@EngineeringAfterHours yes I do have 360 after I pay the yearly subscription which I would have to so I can play with the design a bit
Can you use ground effect with fans?
I think so....you mean like the t.50 right?
@@EngineeringAfterHours i mean you put two fans and a ground effect floor desing in one car i always wondering what would happen
now we need f1 circuits that have loopings :D
Hey Body very nice good work and appreciate all gour hard work but when you use something new like skirts material can you pur down the material name you use for some of us who cant really understand your accent plz
Thanks for the comment. It's silicone seal strip. I chose the 25mm version on amazon.
Awesome stuff
That does it, I'm building one for my hpi ford gt.
Super cool!
can you recreate porpoising ??
Probably...I have another build with underbody aero about 4 videos out...ill add that test to the list!
Just discovered your channel and my Typhon 6S is not happy about it lol.
"Outdoor wind tunnel" 🤣
The compound of the front tires are softer than the rear tires. That's why the back end spins out so much.
No, the rear Tyre compound is softer.
try using curved wings the create vortices
If you broke the pin that holds the idler gear (gear that is in trans that also attached the spur and slipper clutch) you can get an upgraded part but you will have to run an associated spur, or you could drill the pin out and cut the drill bit and glue it in there, that's what I did, thats the only real issue with those transmissions
I bought a 272R input shaft that should beef it up.
Good call on knowing exactly what failed...I can tell you have put some power down with these cars lol
@@EngineeringAfterHours yes I have, I'm currently building an 2wd slash with an xmaxx motor and ESC and custom carbon chassis. It will be done soonish
Or he can run a mod1 trans mission 3 gear eliminating the idler gear entirely
@@nolimitrc1 any recommendations? Too late for this one but it would be nice to know some options
@@nolimitrc1 I had no clue that existed, thanks for the info
The home wind-tube & computer models are can to be useful.
Everybody gangsta till it starts porpoising...
Now you can try double chassis ground effect
Make the fan car better it was
Really cool and put a front and rear wing on it
Oh it's coming...may be a few weeks...but I got the new motor in for it!
I wonder if there is porpoising in it
what if you had fans to force air under the car, like the leaf blower, in your low speed applications. once the car reaches the max flow velocity of the fan it will be pointless, but it could help wen slowing down for turns
Like the new Gordon Murray car!
is it porpoising?
So will it Porpoising
I may try it soon. I'm sure it's possible
You should be able to get more downforce if you extend the floor past the wheels
You have to be able to diffuse the airflow. Going wider doesn't help, and going longer kills my front wing which is used for aero balance.
@@EngineeringAfterHours you could bring the floor past the front wheels but not past the front wing and maybe you can reduce drag by managing the out wash from the front wing by angling the front wing end plates out. Another way to further reduce drag would be to put covers over the front wheels and enclose them.
does front wing works on this RC cars? i mean about aerodinamics
Yes. I've got several builds with front wings that are all functional airfoils.
They're used more to balance aero
Associated tried this in early 90s but never got it back to work
Could you make a down force trey for a arrma felony?
The arrma street series are probably too low to the ground to do much more than a flat floor with a good diffuser.
Would love to try on my typhon 3s 🤗
THank you! Got my sub.
Any recommendations to makes it without 3d or vacuum press?
Do you have any sheet metal tools, heat guns..etc?
@@EngineeringAfterHours two hands a metal file and a hack saw, and also the heat gun, 😆 I'm leaning towards my math is wrong when measuring
@mestizo_rc you could technically do all this with a heatgun and plastic sheet stock, it just wouldn't be as precise.
@EngineeringAfterHours thanks for your help I'll try the plastic sheet and see what happens . Would 2-3mm thickness be too much rigidity?
@mestizo_rc I believe I used just under 2mm and that was a good compromise between rigidity and weight.
Mercedes F1 desperately taking notes…
Aw ye, what I need after harder day
I'm doing this on my rustler 100%
For the size and ratio you'll know when your project is as effective as f1 when the belly of your vehicle is destroyed because your suspension can't deal with the load/forces
The side skirts actually bottom out before the belly, but its amazing how much downforce it can generate.
Did the car have porpoising problem?
Nah, it had rigid skirts that prevented that
@@EngineeringAfterHours k
1:51 SF-14T type beat
Is it possible to add a fan to the back of the rc car
Kinda like the t.50?
@@EngineeringAfterHours yes! That’s the one