@@JohnnyNerdOut Can you you recommend to me a reputable/trustworthy seller an Alibaba where I can purchase the components to build a fat tire, full suspension ebike, preferably at a good price? I'm looking to build one with an Ultra M620 for a friend. I'm looking specifically for one with the frame that's either hollowed out for a battery, or has an inset angle for the battery. If you can help me I'd really appreciate it. It's kind of nerve racking trying to find a trustworthy source. Thanks
When they say "We 'oversee' the manufacturing process", the spelling that immediately came to mind was more like, "We OVERSEA our manufacturing process."
Blomberg did a study to make an iPhone in USA. The cost is 6k USD. Would you buy an iPhone for 6k? If 1million us customers saying yes then apple might survive.
Overseas means beyond or across the ocean or sea: “My dad has gone overseas for business purposes.” Oversees , on the other hand, means to supervise or to inspect: “The police oversees all the public places in the city in order to prevent crimes.” Therefore use the proper word "oversee".
@@andherium that’s because the auto dealership distribution system in America is basically a monopoly. The rules are outdated. If you knew how the system worked, you would know the answers to the following 2 questions: why are auto dealers the richest guys in town? And why do auto dealer owners have so many children?
Exactly right, everything I buy, EVERYTHING, I check the Chinese suppliers first to see if it's just a rebranded product and 9 times in 10 it is. Living in the UK, we have a lot of companies promoting themselves as "British" when in fact they're just sale offices, buying cheap crap from China and having a sticker put on in the UK so that they can promoted it as "made in England". If there is ONE thing I hate more than crap Chinese products, it's office admin/sales people buying the same Chinese products and selling them for a 500% mark up, because i'm an engineer and people in my line of work lose their jobs because of these lying scumbags in their cosy air-conditioned offices.
Most bike brands have been middle men since the early 90s. A Raleigh rep told me in 92 that they were getting bike frames from China for $7 a piece. $7 ! At that time a Trek 930 frame out of Wisconsin cost wholesale $130. Specialized was never a manufacturer. And if you worked in different shops you would find Taiwanese manufacturers who would build you anything you wanted and put your own name on it. Brands, unfortunately, have not meant anything for some time. The public now takes the place of quality control and you just hope for the best.
yeah 90% of bike brands buy their frames from the bike manufacture GAINT who are the world largest bike manufacturer and sell frames to EVERY major brand Trek, Specialized, Cannondale ect ect. its called "White Label production"
This is not actually true. I have 20 years experience in the bicycle industry so I’ll explain in detail. Some of the factories that are owned by parent company’s that also own have the major brands under the same umbrella and some parts of frame manufacturing and scheduling is outsourced to factories owned by different companies. But the frames the design, patents and quality control are all different. Even the tooling required is different to produce these frames. These produce different bikes. Think of it like an artisan baker asks another baker to hire his oven one day a week because he can’t afford the specific type of oven he needs for this special type of bread he needs. However the baker brings his own bread pans, baskets, tools, recipe and does the work himself. This is how the Taichung, Taiwanese side of the industry works. It’s a complicated system with many brands working together and against each other at the same time. Department store bikes is a whole other thing (and absolute junk) and this is what he is talking about with hub motor e-bikes and Alibaba.
@@Joe-yr9oy Its not a cool way of doing business if you ask me. A name should mean EVERYTHING with products but thanks to this kind of crap it means nothing. Its because of this that your example means nothing. How do I really know what % of my product was made by the manufacture? I'm not even going to try to research crap like that, only the people in the industry know things like that.
I bought a £200 front wheel motor and controller from China years ago (200W Bafang 8FUN), added 4 mobility scooter lead acid batteries and a £50 second hand bike. It's still going strong 7 years later (OK it's had new batteries but they cost peanuts compared to light weight batteries). Easy 25 mile range and once its moving, just like a motorbike, the weight makes it feel more solid and stable to ride. It was a time when some modern batteries were catching fire and I figured for battery pack charging under my desk at work the old proven lead acid battery was safer. DIY - save a fortune - Mine is still 100% reliable. One word of warning - at e-bike speeds you need bloody good lights.
I literally discovered this three days ago. Been seeing similar bike ads popping up while I was looking for one. However there is no way I will ever pay 4K for a bike. That's the price for a used car or fancy moped. So I checked out AliBaba found a certified dealer. Got myself a fully customized bike made to my specs for 1.2k door to door. Sent from an EU warehouse so I skipped all the import hassle. These so called brands in Germany here want an arm and a leg for a bike and I won't let them. :D
@@Minjoeman the way I checked was by seeing if they had a certification from Alibaba themselves. Also be sure to ask the door to door price. This varies of course from the price they post to lure you in. Usually the posted price is around 500 to 700 bucks. but if you ask for the door to door price there are no hidden fees or surprises
As long as the batteries don’t explode it’s all good, make sure they are UL listed otherwise your insurance won’t cover you for any damages , at least where I’m at they won’t.
What you say in this video applies to e-scooters as well. That’s why you see e-scooters that look exactly alike but have different brand names on them. Customer service/support is always promised before you make that purchase. But as soon as you discover a factory defect or something breaks, you’ll be given a hard time from the seller.
@@KaasIsLekker Europeans have the Learning Curve advantage. Americans are behind on these things. And too greedy. If I went to Europe, I'd buy a few. I love the retro style. And the Italian styles.
@@juliedeane4327 Americans are too greedy. If there was a word that could exaggerate more than too it would apply here. Clueless and greedy we are over here in North America. So sad yet so true
i think he meant the sellers were gonna hit him. . I hate that crap like for instance at SunSetter awning motorized awning that they send a big packet to my mailbox they used to anyway LOL I noticed it said in it that it was assembled in the USA did not State anywhere that was manufactured in USA so I started calling them whenever they send me one of those big mailers and I asked then where it was manufactured and they say right here in New England America as yet no man we said that it's symbol in America where were the parts made in America and I say that's why I'll never buy one man
Sometimes you will see a label that specifies where materials were shipped from & where it was assembled. Electric bikes & scooters & mopeds are really popular now. When looking for a Co. to buy from, do your research. I almost bought a scooter from a co. in CA. Beware. Reviews were horrid & lots of them. I referred to the BBB. Well over 100 complaints were sent to them concerning this Co. And these vehicles are not inexpensive in price. I also heard that some put up pictures of products and all you get is a cheap knock off. Not the real thing. Buyer beware. Reverse engineering, cheap knock offs, etc. Patents don't mean a lot if someone in another country steals your idea.
This happened to me. Paid 3K for an electric bike 8 years ago before the craze. Anyway, fast forward to now, I had problems with my controller and the place where I purchased my bike can’t fix it. I contacted the manufacturer and heard nothing back. I ended up buying two Döst bicycles. I really like their customer service.
I suppose one consolation is if you've bought a 'budget' e-bike, you can then switch it over as time moves forward, as you have the frame, and bars, wheels, motor, batteries and displays can always be changed out to newer parts/pieces. Some motors are not made for the long haul, so I assume if the motor doesn't fit a case within the wheel, the whole wheel assembly can be switched, no matter the size and width? Thanks for your input!
Bought a £350 FIIDO D1 off aliexpress fourteen months ago , best thing I ever bought , done hundreds of miles on it , sure it’s not perfect but I needed a folder and I’m on a budget and I’m more than happy with it , it’s been places where fourteen inch wheels have no right to go including over the Pennine hills with a trailer .
I figured this out pretty quickly when I got serious about buying a new bike. As he said this is why there are so many complaints about after sale customer service for these bikes. Personally I'm not sure that you can protect yourself from these issues even buying from a local dealer as they just add another layer to the whole thing.
Help me out, my man. I'm looking for a mini ebike and as I'm starting to educate myself on the topic I'm realizing it's a jungle I gotta trek through. What's a good one?
You just saved me $3000 the ebike I wanted comes from China. A friend of mine did an estimate on what I can build it would cost me $1500 thank you for this video
@@renatomercurio4774 I still have $1000 I spent $500 to get an older style the original bike sold for the extra $375 which I needed for upgrades and modifications. Still no problems with it
I’m surprised that some of you were not aware of it… I live in China and everything you guys think is made by some reputable brands is made just around the corner here in China. And no… nobody is over looking any manufacturers here. It’s not like American guy walks into massive manufacturing plant and demands something. These factories here produce millions of bikes and China is by far the biggest market. For American clients we just slap some cool looking logo on it and make it look “strong” because of those masculinity issues there. Anyways… You guys don’t make ebikes and even if you put those parts together, you’re using Chinese parts. Batteries, controllers, frames, motors etc… So, does combining Chinese products by American company or person make it more of a American or Chinese made bike? I leave it for you to judge. Btw, Bosch has some great motor designs and things… but please don’t assume those motors to be manufactured in Germany. China is the place where the stuff is made these days🤫
Most people don't know the difference (usually) between high quality and low quality is who controls the BOM for whatever is being built. Let a local ODM choose what capacitors/etc. get used and they'll pick stuff that's cheaper almost every time. Let's say you have a PC that's spec calls for ~80C internal temperatures, so the original design BOM calls for ceramic capacitors. Well, those are 30 cents each but an electrolytic capacitor is 5 cents each. Guess which one you get if you do not explicitly require ceramic caps in your BOM? And then, when you run your test batch of units in a thermal chamber overnight, the next morning 10-20% of them are dead. Why? Because the cheaper caps have a spec that "technically" meets 80C but only for short periods and you now have a bunch of burned out capacitors and useless PCs. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯ Note that this isn't specific to China but when they say "We can make that BOM for 20% cheaper" the management says "Awesome, do that!" And then when engineering says "If you do that, our failure rate will jump by 3-5x, dropping our already thin profit margins," management fires the engineers who told them that and goes with the ODM BOM anyway. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why Amazon reviews are WUNDERBAR for the first year of a product and then drop to 1-3 stars after the BOM rules get relaxed.
You can't live without China because you are just plain lazy. Would you be willing to work long hours for low pay. You want cheap but super good quality. In your American wet dreams.
can you design a bike keep the pedals with a hand throttle 110v 80 mile range does 60 mph to solve a commuting problem or put a stop to that cut off at 17 mph and raise it to 40mph
After doing some research, I bought a LECTRIC brand e-bike. The research I did on several different e-bikes led me to believe that the electronic controls are pretty much the product of a single manufacturer that are shared by most brands, but the physical and mechanical aspects of the various bikes can vary qute a bit. At any rate, buying the LECTRIC was a “no brainer” - best price, best features, best build quality, and best support. Of course it made me question why I would spend $879 for a 60-lb mountain bike that has to be electrically powered (because it is so heavy), as opposed to spending $479 for a 30-lb montain bike that is pedal-only. The answer is simply that an e-bike gives you a whole new cycling experience that involves a collaborative effort between the rider and the machine.
Same! Maybe they don’t manufacture them they might have found the specs they wanted - internal battery. And why is a hub motor trash? Hmmm. Sounds like the mainstream bike industry is freaking out over the popularity of the Lectric and other similar “brands”. Make a more affordable entry level bike and you will have more sales. Don’t make it be the fault of someone else’s marketing savvy the reason your business is not booming.
Hey Bill, is Lectric built in the USA ? My wife are looking as 1st time buyers of a solid built e bike & quality manufacturer & support. We are new to biking & want to buy smart & still just trying to educate ourselves on what’s out there , seems overwhelming. Thx Bob
Good for people to know. Of course, this is the case with virtually *every* consumer good, including, of course, non-electric bikes. The one caveat I'd add here is that, for people who don't like to tinker, a relationship with a reputable bike shop is what you're paying (that much extra) for. Like when you buy a car from a dealership. If you don't need that relationship, great! Save some $$$. But most normal customers do.
Found that the guys at the shop I went to were pretty awesome to talk to and did good work, and the Giant brand Lafree bike (from 2019) they recommended me has honestly been heaps of fun the last couple years I've been riding it, I may like tinkering with things (built my desktop and added more ram and an extra m.2 to my laptop) but it's still awesome to have some bike nerds to talk to and work on my bike to keep it in good shape. My only other option in my price range would have been on Amazon anyway so it's worked out pretty well
@@billparker8954 Its quite impossible to name names, as you'd be naming basically every product on the face of the planet. If someone outsources manufacturing, that manufacturer in question would be the one to blame for selling off extra product, or even the design of the product itself, to third party companies that are only looking for a turn-key product to make money in what they view as a growing industry. Everything from bicycles, to condoms, to basically any piece of plastic you own in your house. If it was not made in the same country of origin as the end seller, then there is, without a doubt, a copy of it floating around waiting to be picked up and sold by a smaller off-shore company.
As a retired global outsourcing executive, you know what most don't, most everything is a re-labled product made offshore. It is a fact of life these days, and I retired in 2008.
This going on with most products to be honest I use to work for a well known tools manufacturer and all they did was buy Chinese made stuff cheap slap some logos on them and a slightly different casing and charge the customers a hell of alot more for the product.
I converted my Cube Race 130 with bafang, 500w and It works well. Make sure you install an anti rotating bracket, there's also a guy in Italy who 3d printed an anti chain fall device specific for bafang, It cost 50 bucks but it's worth the money. I've ordered the battery, ready to go, from AliExpress for 200 USD.
@@Yowzoe the more videos you watch, the more you start thinking you can actually do this yourself....you only need basic skills, as long as your not an idiot you can pull it off bro.
exactly . i bought a use ebike with a brushless gearless hub motor and it works great for driving grid and dirt roads. a bit gutless though with only 48 volts 350 watt controller box . that could all be dealt with just by simple rewinding the drive motor and upgrading the control box for more watt power. only problem is then the batteries will drain way quicker. adding to much battery will make the thing a weight beast. ebikes scooters are more for a slow and steady will get you there eventually lol mode of transportation :)) i like it though.
This is so true. I saw a folding 20" fat tire e-bike on the street with no brand. Went online and worked out it must be RDK. But RDK don''t ship to Australia. Then worked out RDK just orders these to various specs from China and badges them. There are many, many differerent brands selling this bike all around the world. The gears spces, battery specs are the same, only the max speed and if it has a hand throttle or not is what is different. Motor brand - OEM!
True that's why we need those reviewers on UA-cam so we can make a clever move. I'm very happy with my widewheel pro scooter and aventon level. Plan to upgrade the ebike at the end of the year
I like hub motor bikes better. You just have to get the right hub motors. If a drivetrain component breaks on a mid drive, you have to fix it or you're walking. You can have your chain break on a hub motor bike and still be able to use the motor. Also on hub motor bikes you can have regenerative breaking which extends the life of your brakes and recharges your battery a little.
Got my parts from AliExpress and learned through watching lots of videos on building a repair. Cheapest way is to convert an alternator. Built my own battery too! I like hub motors best! Girl power!
Elizabeth Wood Way to go Girl! I’m just starting to look at e bikes and making my own would be satisfying. I drive an SUV so an e bike would be a great complement. I’ll investigate it more as soon as chemo’s over and I’ve got some time lol.😎👍
Yes. Like a couple of outboard motors for boats decades ago. They were made on the same production line and went their separate ways when it was time to label them. I'm making trike from my push bike using wooden main, cross rails and rest for the seat. I may not have the fastest but the western red cedar will certainly look stylish.
Dude this video keeps paying forward. You helped me know what I needed to know about who I am deling with. I just bought a bike from Aventon, I got the Ramblas Mid mount. They helped create that system. Thanks man!
This is exactly why I have designed and am building my own bike. I can buy an electric bike for what it will cost me to build but I can't get anywhere near the performance and spare parts for it are available at any hobby shop.
Hub motors are awesome, what are you talking about? I'm hitting 65mph with my kits all day long. And as a bonus, I've never been stranded due to a broken chain. QS makes some awesome hub motors.
Great video. Thank you for keeping it real and telling the truth. I’ve recently got into bicycle repair and looking to get into e-bike repair soon, and it’s good to know that there are honest people in the community.
$42,000 was the cost of a replacement battery for a friends Brahma electric motorcycle. my friend bought the bike slightly damaged at a salvage auction. My friend owns a collision shop and he is a motorcycle enthusiast. He thought it would be neat to have an electric bike. It was totaled because the frame had scuffs on it. Anytime a motorcycle has scuffs on the frame, it’s automatically totaled. The rest of the damage was the handlebars the front fender scuffing on the seat footpeg, nothing serious. He bought the bike for under $1000, replaced the parts that were broken, buffed the frame, and he rode the bike for three years. he found a blog online. One of the bloggers told him to leave his key on over the weekend and it would totally discharge the battery. When he recharges the battery from totally discharged, it will recharge with a greater charge and have more range. So he did that.. it turned out to be the worst advice anyone could give. That works with lead acid deep cycle batteries, but not lithium ion batteries My friend called the factory. They walked him through some tests over the phone. They concluded that his battery is junk and it was actually in danger of exploding all by itself in that state. They told him to get that motorcycle out of his business which is where he kept it.. so to get to the bottom line. My friend asked about a new battery, how do I go about getting a new battery they told him that his battery or battery pack consists of seven batteries. Each battery cost $6000. The battery pack cost $42,000. my friend searched the Internet for over a year occasionally looking for another crashed but salvageable Brahma electric motorcycle that he could salvage the battery from. No one ever came up on the websites where he looks for parts for crashed cars he repairs. He ended up selling the bike for parts on eBay..
Yes, you got a point. However, you forgot to mention the risks of ordering directly from the manufacturer through alibaba. You forgot to mention the insanely long shipping times, the hardship of getting the warranty claim from the manufacturer, and the inconsistency of the photos from the you actually ordered and most importantly the customs could reject the product if it did not meet regulations. I searched on reddit, there are people who ordered through alibaba and waited for several months ended up not getting the product because customs rejected it.
Yes, true indeed. This video could’ve been 3x as long going into the details. The main point is that a middle man is buying from China, then selling to a dealer who then sells to you. Lots of markups for little reason
@@JohnnyNerdOut That's pretty much how most products are sold - it's rare you are buying from the manufacturers... they don't want to be direct sellers. They sell wholesale to distributors to sell to retailers who sell to us!
@@JohnnyNerdOut Hi Johnny excellent video. I’m looking to get the equivalent of a “GForce T42. Any possibility of pointing me in the right direction as it relates to a manufacturer? Would be tremendously appreciated.
the catch being ,one that many do not realize... is that Aliexpress and Alibaba .. you're dealing with the shipper who is IN China; whereas dealing with another maker or like Amazon,, the shipper/order fulfiller is outside of China and has faster shipping contracts in situ.
Thanks for the heads up! I lucked out. I decided to be conservative with the cash laid out. It was worth it. I learned a lot: pros and cons. A lot of the decision lies in how much the bike will be used and if the perfection is going to be a passive user (relying on the throttle) or active (pedaling and using the assist).
Of course there will be other products that do the same thing. But this guy is giving you what he knows from personal experience about bikes which 99.9% of those buying them won’t know as they shell out a fortune for the same bike they could have bought much cheaper from those who actually make them. Great post, Johnny
I would generally. I like my IGH. Sometimes I wish I had the 8 speed instead of the 5 speed though. I have a video on this exact subject coming out very soon. But long story short as you can use a single speed chain with an internally cured hub and that is generally much stronger. And it keeps perfect chain alignment.
Well....... not exactly. I have been a "Middle Man" on a Chinese product. I did my research and then worked with the Chinese engineers to ensure it met all of my legal and promissory requirements. I paid a LOT for shipping and customs. I ordered spare parts with each purchase and 100% warranty service to my clients. Now you COULD find a similar product on Alibaba - by the same manufacturer, but you are the last person on earth that they will prioritize if you have a need for rare parts or support. My products also needed additional electrical certification - which I invested in. My products required UPC codes for Amazon. It was very, very time consuming and expensive to provide a quality CANADIAN product that is made in China. If you have a trusted American (or English, or Canadian) e-bike brand, then it makes no difference if they poured the sand to form the cast for the frame. All that matters is their reputation for support and after-sales parts. Right?
As an e-bike owner for the past 8 years, I totally agree with everything you aay in your video. Almost all the components of the so called German brands are made in the Far East places such as China, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc but they’re branded as German products. These so called brands do nothing apart from putting the parts together and selling the final product for at least 5 times what it cost them to purchase and put together. My latest E-bike is a brand called Riese & Muller. The parts esp. the electronic parts on this bike. including such simple thing as a power cable are impossible to source unless you go to their so called dealers here in the UK who then in turn charge you an arm and a leg to supply you the part after weeks and sometimes months of waiting. I w’d never, ever buy a so called European E-bike. My next ebike w’d be one from China that doesn’t claim to be from anywhere else.
Thanks for your insight! I’m in the process of buying an e-bike but heard some horrid stories from retailers not knowing how to fix and equally the brands being unhelpful in resolving any issues with their e-bikes…R&M are a real premium brand so for you to mention the above it makes me thing long and hard whether I should part with my money. specialized seem to be a good alternative maybe? They are a UK well established brand…? Any thoughts 💭
@@polymful Yep, for sure, even noticed how a ford explore and a mercury mountaineer look very similar, it's done in the auto industry a lot. Anyone that is surprised by this video hasn't done their research. This is nothing new or really secret, you just have to do your research.
@@stevelaminack1516 lol Ford and Mercury were/are literally the same company (although Mercury as a brand doesn't exist any more). This guy was talking about one company selling to another and then selling again to us.
@@stevelaminack1516 Yeah, like the other guy said Ford and Mercury were the same company. Bad analogy...Just like GM owns Chevy. This video meant literally some other manufacturer making the bikes then slapping another companies sticker on it.
That's how...all manufacturing works, unless you're in a very small-time niche market...where you might still have an arms-length relationship with the factory. The failure of most of the direct-to-consumer brands that spend absurd amounts of money on UA-cam ads and sponsorships shows that those "middle men" DO actually serve a purpose.
Almost bought a cool, but pricey "local" e-bike when the "manufacturer" turned out to be a guy who ordered 50 from China and then closed the company. #Dodged_a_Bullet
You are so right Johnny! I just found out the hard way by buying 2 Jasion e-bikes. Total crap! One motor failed. They don’t answer the phone, they don’t respond to emails, they have no spare parts, etc. My 5 week old Jasion X-Hunter is now a 1000 $ paperweight. I just posted a video on UA-cam to warn people. Also, Al the people who get these bike for free and tell everyone how fabulous they are, are guilty as well. They only test the bike when it’s brand new. The don’t tell you there is zero service. Keep up your work. I am sure you will be fine. We need to tell the people the truth!
US Specialised and Trek have a lot of their components, from frame, wheels to motors contract manufactured by Taiwans Giant, who in turn have most of their manufacturing done in China. The reality is if you knew the individual manufacturers in China, you could put together a high end/spec bike for a fraction of the price.
In many countries it is about legality to drive a bike on the road. Chinese factory can’t guarantee your that. You local shop has to confirms to the local law. Yes it more expensive, but is legal to drive.
Great vid... plz tell me if the Avalanche Big Bear Fat Tire Rear Drive Ebike 500 Watt 20 MPH Black Adult Size ( on Ebay) & SWFT ZIP Fat tire are the same bike but with different stickers... thx I do know the SWFT is a 6 speed and the Avalanche is 7 speed casette. They appear to be identical 👀
Thanks for the video, I have done the full journey, old bike in the garage, put cheap rear hub on, it was OK, and got me hooked. Next a new but basic bike and slapped on a Bafang mid drive, very easy and works very well super quiet. Finally a full sus with a Yamaha system, yes expensive, but it is definitely better than the Bafang, possibly due to the torque sensor,if you have the money buy the best, but the Bafang is extremely good and easy for parts etc. The rear hub bike has gone.
This has been the case with bike brands and manufacturers since the 80’s as far as I know! The real problem with E-bikes are the manufacturing and disposal of batteries. Also I ride Mt. bikes and now keep running into people on E-bikes in the national forest, where no motorized vehicles are aloud to be. Mind boggling that people think electric motor is not a motor? They move fast and silent and most people I have seen don’t even have the skills to ride E-bikes safely especially off road.
They are lethal in normal traffic, too. I live in a bike friendly city, so we have lots of bikeroads, mopeds are allowed on them though, but you can tell a moped, you can't tell an ebike much of the time. So like when you get to a hill and need to stand up and pump and take a bit more space, you look around and see an old lady or something, on a bike, you dont expect them to overtake you in the middle of the hill, causing all kinds of dangers.
@@Throku if you not expecting other people overtaking you, it is just a silly routine you worked your self into. Caution is key. Anytime. I aggree on the point that elderly people should be extra carefull with e bikes. Many of them did not ride for ages and then got an ebike. Thats dangerous
@@Throku Dude. I dont even have a drivers license... I ride every meter on my bike, been the head of the local bike Club for more than 5 years, doin tricks on BMX in Park and Flatland and own 7 Bikes including a Tandem. If you get overtaken by a granny and get scarred, you should consider leaving the road to the grannies.
The "brands" that are only middlemen is really common with electric guitars. A brand called Cor-tek in Indonesia and other places are the actual maker for about 25 "brands" of guitars. Sure, all the brands order batches of their specific shape, feature list or specific colors, but they are all CorTek guitars. The funny thing is that Cor Tek also sells their own brand called CORT at significantly cheaper prices. In America we pay for a Logo, not just a product.
Great information. I had my 14 year old bike converted nearly 2 years ago - Bafang mid section motor and lithium-ion battery for less than one third cost of a new e-bike. And it's wonderful. I liv e in Wellington New Zealand where everything is super - expensive.
Juiced Bikes in CA manufacturers their own ebikes as they own their own factory in China. Also, the CEO, Tora Harris, is also the chief designer and he spends more time in China than here at his offices and warehouses in Chula Vista, CA. He speaks fluent Mandarin and hand picks his workers in China.
@@davidmann4533 It's funny you say that. I got friendly with one of his workers. She worked at the Juiced Zen Desk which is the place your questions go when you hit "Chat" on the Juiced site at night. She was a 19 yr old girl who ended up quitting, even though she said the money was okay.
I figured this out while checking out the market on e bikes. Do you know of customizable options for the controllers? The controllers seem to have a lot of extra plugs for extra options. I was thinking something along the lines of solar panel battery chargers or else hooking up alternate batteries or going dual wheel hub motors.
@Miles Doyle Girl, dont be that stupid. Jesus never created a bicycle. The french did. Jesus have killed millions of bikers in the way to church or family.. Take that..
I have said build it yourself for 5+ years now. I loved the look of the Ruff-Cycles "Ruffian", but they want $5k for a 750w cruiser? LMAO...no. I built an identical looking 3k watt bike for less than half.
Keep these coming. It's outrageous what bike companies are charging for bikes full stop. Ive been involved with cycling for 40 years. I honestly wish i could find a hobby that would replace it. I'd go back to bmx but my body won't take that now!
No wonder lots of bikes from different brands look a like. Just like motorcycles in Mexico and South America have similar if not the same motorcycle but different name.
Yep happens for most products. I worked in air-conditioning and eventually sales and just from having installed brands like Samsung, Panasonic, LG, and then later in sales, saw that the units were the same just relevantly branded, sometimes only having further differences in the compressor or control unit being different.
Awesome video Johnny. I have suspected what you have said in the video as well but do ot know which manufacturer in China build quality ebikes and can be trusted. Can you provide some info?
No Johnny, they don't just "stick a sticker on and triple the price". subcontracting isn't new, nor is white labelling. They don't just market the bike (cost) they do the import (cost), pay the duties (cost), provide pre-sale service/advice (cost), pay for warehousing (cost), pay for store space/promotion space, provide spare parts/service (cost), warranty support (cost). A dropshipper might just be putting on a sticker, but a proper brand doesn't - they do do all of the value add. Try to understand the economics of commerce... :-) Furthermore, as you admit yourself, identical looking bikes can actually be very different - the same frame might use diferent brakes, gears, batteries or motors, making it a very different bike so buing it "direct" assuming it's the same as any other is simply nonsense. A trusted/respected brand can add significant value - you're recommending buying direct from China... how's that after-sales service working out, or what do you do when you realise the cells are cr*p... Also, you didn't mention the fraudulent customs value forms that chinese shippers may add in and the other duties/taxes often avoided (illegally) - that "three times the cost" is nothing of the sort when you factor everything in. Sure, it CAN be the case that someone adds a sticker and no extra value, but often isn't...
@@davehoward3645 Wow....Johnny has his own simps? He's really made it! :-) Yes...any dissent from the view must be from someone with a vested interest... Nope, I'm not even vaguely connected to the industry or anyone in it... I just prefer facts to half-truths or vague innuendo. He contradicts himself - they're all the same...they change parts.... er...
Yeah... so, almost nobody cares about all the things you're calling value add. Plus you just car salesmened and made up a few things that don't exist for consumer purchases. You can straight up look on alibaba and aliexpress and see how much it costs to get it to your front door. To me, everything you mentioned is anti-value that pointlessly hikes up the price of things they bought without doing any of the actual work to manufacture something. Its not the end-user's problem you decided to warehouse a bulk order you bought from China so you could sell everything at a marktup. Thats YOUR problem to deal with and some refer to that as the "the cost of doing business" Want to be taken seriously? Design and manufacture your own bikes from the ground up. There is tons of room for improvement with all the cheap connector choices bafang and whatnot came up with. Anybody could easily do better if they'd just do the actual work that China is doing.
@@dustsmoke Seriously? People dont' care about after-sales service? You just spent $2000 and it's faulty and you're going to send it back to China.... ? Also, a trusted brand absolutely adds value - trusted because loads of people have bought from them and recommend them because they're using good componensts etc. Top bBrands have a reputation to maintain - that's why every McDonalds gets an A hygeine rating but independents don't...
Excellent commentary. All the more reason to buy from China/ Alibaba. I purchased a Frey CC direct from China, its a fantastic $3K bike that specs to a 5 or 6K "US-priced" ebike.
Put a dummy near a window to distract the sharp shooters.. Good info.. My first ebike 10 years ago was a hub and service was a nightmare for this very reason.. Got a Trek ebike last month from LBS, I paid more but warrenty is excellent and service shouldn't be an issue.
Mid-drives are the best because they're lighter for a given power. Hub motors are the best because they allow a tidy, compact & convenient installation--in the rear wheel hub. Both are better, choose what you like :)
To many middle men that’s the problem,it gets in the way of innovation I believe as bikes haven’t really changed to much only got a whole lot more expensive and not that good quality..I could buy a good Japanese motorcycle for the price of these things and the brakes would work better also..I would also get more miles out of the chain and sprockets...It’s all one big con..I think most will tire of this BS..Ebike quality has a long way to gooooo.
This really explains why when I was shopping for one, almost none of the websites had a "spare battery" option under accessories or anything. They had baskets and racks galore! I would think a spare battery would be a smart option to carry an extra one on you, especially for longer treks. I thought that was the craziest thing to not offer them.
You can run two batteries. I've watched a few videos about it on youtube. There's a device for about $60. I don't remember the name but it was easy to find.
I love my full carbon fiber Specialized Stumpjumper and my wife’s new Trek electric Dual Sport. We have unmatched dealer service, with lifetime free adjustments and incredible re-sale value.
Just checked, 250w motors and price tags ranging from $3,400 to $5,000 How much you wanna bet the huge majority of it is made in Asia....Harley Davidson "American" e-bikes ....I have a 2000 Buell Cyclone they made sure to put "BUELL AMERICAN MOTORCYCLES" badge on the gas tank but when you look under the gas cap. It says, made in Taiwan in small print lol
@@michaelbrinks8089 No doubt the H-D ebike will be Asian made. It also seems expensive. But is it a good value? Knowing nothing about ebikes in general, I cannot adequately judge them.
Johnny, you"ve got my attention. Great information that has already modified my view of ebike purchase. Had to subscribe, just to see what kind of fatal "accident" you suffer at the hands of the bike sales mafia. LOL
I keep hearing people talk about this. But my brain works logically and he doesn't say anything bad about the the competition. He just keeps calling them middle Men. And that's not a bad thing.
This happens with millions of products, not just e bikes
So true. Don't know why he thinks it's news.
Because there are alternatives
@@JohnnyNerdOut Ya, these dummies don't know that ur just looking out for 'em.
Especially phones.
@@JohnnyNerdOut Can you you recommend to me a reputable/trustworthy seller an Alibaba where I can purchase the components to build a fat tire, full suspension ebike, preferably at a good price? I'm looking to build one with an Ultra M620 for a friend. I'm looking specifically for one with the frame that's either hollowed out for a battery, or has an inset angle for the battery. If you can help me I'd really appreciate it. It's kind of nerve racking trying to find a trustworthy source.
Thanks
When they say "We 'oversee' the manufacturing process", the spelling that immediately came to mind was more like, "We OVERSEA our manufacturing process."
😂that’s gold. Wish I would’ve said that now
That’s actually exactly what I thought he was saying. Lol
Blomberg did a study to make an iPhone in USA. The cost is 6k USD. Would you buy an iPhone for 6k? If 1million us customers saying yes then apple might survive.
Overseas means beyond or across the ocean or sea: “My dad has gone overseas for business purposes.” Oversees , on the other hand, means to supervise or to inspect: “The police oversees all the public places in the city in order to prevent crimes.” Therefore use the proper word "oversee".
@@karaokelvis something tells me you didn’t get the joke
You’ve literally explained commerce. This happens with everything from flower pots to restaurant food, not just e-bikes.
Not quite all commerce; but most goods, I agree.
This is not the case with fuel powered vehicles.
@@andherium that’s because the auto dealership distribution system in America is basically a monopoly. The rules are outdated.
If you knew how the system worked, you would know the answers to the following 2 questions: why are auto dealers the richest guys in town? And why do auto dealer owners have so many children?
Exactly right, everything I buy, EVERYTHING, I check the Chinese suppliers first to see if it's just a rebranded product and 9 times in 10 it is.
Living in the UK, we have a lot of companies promoting themselves as "British" when in fact they're just sale offices, buying cheap crap from China and having a sticker put on in the UK so that they can promoted it as "made in England".
If there is ONE thing I hate more than crap Chinese products, it's office admin/sales people buying the same Chinese products and selling them for a 500% mark up, because i'm an engineer and people in my line of work lose their jobs because of these lying scumbags in their cosy air-conditioned offices.
Welcome to capitalism.
Most bike brands have been middle men since the early 90s. A Raleigh rep told me in 92 that they were getting bike frames from China for $7 a piece. $7 ! At that time a Trek 930 frame out of Wisconsin cost wholesale $130. Specialized was never a manufacturer. And if you worked in different shops you would find Taiwanese manufacturers who would build you anything you wanted and put your own name on it. Brands, unfortunately, have not meant anything for some time. The public now takes the place of quality control and you just hope for the best.
yeah 90% of bike brands buy their frames from the bike manufacture GAINT who are the world largest bike manufacturer and sell frames to EVERY major brand Trek, Specialized, Cannondale ect ect. its called "White Label production"
Yep, the world is full of shit and people like it that way.
This is not actually true. I have 20 years experience in the bicycle industry so I’ll explain in detail.
Some of the factories that are owned by parent company’s that also own have the major brands under the same umbrella and some parts of frame manufacturing and scheduling is outsourced to factories owned by different companies. But the frames the design, patents and quality control are all different. Even the tooling required is different to produce these frames. These produce different bikes.
Think of it like an artisan baker asks another baker to hire his oven one day a week because he can’t afford the specific type of oven he needs for this special type of bread he needs. However the baker brings his own bread pans, baskets, tools, recipe and does the work himself. This is how the Taichung, Taiwanese side of the industry works. It’s a complicated system with many brands working together and against each other at the same time.
Department store bikes is a whole other thing (and absolute junk) and this is what he is talking about with hub motor e-bikes and Alibaba.
@@Joe-yr9oy thank you Joseph that was very informative and helpful very eye-opening too on my dad
@@Joe-yr9oy Its not a cool way of doing business if you ask me. A name should mean EVERYTHING with products but thanks to this kind of crap it means nothing. Its because of this that your example means nothing. How do I really know what % of my product was made by the manufacture? I'm not even going to try to research crap like that, only the people in the industry know things like that.
I bought a £200 front wheel motor and controller from China years ago (200W Bafang 8FUN), added 4 mobility scooter lead acid batteries and a £50 second hand bike. It's still going strong 7 years later (OK it's had new batteries but they cost peanuts compared to light weight batteries). Easy 25 mile range and once its moving, just like a motorbike, the weight makes it feel more solid and stable to ride. It was a time when some modern batteries were catching fire and I figured for battery pack charging under my desk at work the old proven lead acid battery was safer. DIY - save a fortune - Mine is still 100% reliable. One word of warning - at e-bike speeds you need bloody good lights.
With the right tools, parts, and cells, you can build your own li-Ion battery packs better than $$$ ones off the shelf.
I literally discovered this three days ago. Been seeing similar bike ads popping up while I was looking for one. However there is no way I will ever pay 4K for a bike. That's the price for a used car or fancy moped. So I checked out AliBaba found a certified dealer. Got myself a fully customized bike made to my specs for 1.2k door to door. Sent from an EU warehouse so I skipped all the import hassle. These so called brands in Germany here want an arm and a leg for a bike and I won't let them. :D
I've purchased two really nice motorbikes for $2000 so when I walk by the bike shop and see $3500 ebikes in the window I just shake my head.
When shopping on Alibaba how do you know they are truly certified? I felt that the deals were too good to be true… so it’s a scam?
@@Minjoeman the way I checked was by seeing if they had a certification from Alibaba themselves. Also be sure to ask the door to door price. This varies of course from the price they post to lure you in. Usually the posted price is around 500 to 700 bucks. but if you ask for the door to door price there are no hidden fees or surprises
As long as the batteries don’t explode it’s all good, make sure they are UL listed otherwise your insurance won’t cover you for any damages , at least where I’m at they won’t.
What you say in this video applies to e-scooters as well. That’s why you see e-scooters that look exactly alike but have different brand names on them. Customer service/support is always promised before you make that purchase. But as soon as you discover a factory defect or something breaks, you’ll be given a hard time from the seller.
Weird tbh many of the things sold in holland are dutch or german made so we don't have those problems
@@KaasIsLekker Europeans have the Learning Curve advantage. Americans are behind on these things. And too greedy. If I went to Europe, I'd buy a few.
I love the retro style. And the Italian styles.
@@juliedeane4327 Americans are too greedy. If there was a word that could exaggerate more than too it would apply here. Clueless and greedy we are over here in North America. So sad yet so true
I think you will be okay we all know were getting screwed with most things we buy.
i think he meant the sellers were gonna hit him. . I hate that crap like for instance at SunSetter awning motorized awning that they send a big packet to my mailbox they used to anyway LOL I noticed it said in it that it was assembled in the USA did not State anywhere that was manufactured in USA so I started calling them whenever they send me one of those big mailers and I asked then where it was manufactured and they say right here in New England America as yet no man we said that it's symbol in America where were the parts made in America and I say that's why I'll never buy one man
Sometimes you will see a label that specifies where materials were shipped from & where it was assembled.
Electric bikes & scooters & mopeds are really popular now.
When looking for a Co. to buy from, do your research. I almost bought a scooter from a co. in CA. Beware. Reviews were horrid & lots of them. I referred to the BBB. Well over 100 complaints were sent to them concerning this Co. And these vehicles are not inexpensive in price. I also heard that some put up pictures of products and all you get is a cheap knock off. Not the real thing. Buyer beware. Reverse engineering, cheap knock offs, etc. Patents don't mean a lot if someone in another country steals your idea.
This happened to me. Paid 3K for an electric bike 8 years ago before the craze. Anyway, fast forward to now, I had problems with my controller and the place where I purchased my bike can’t fix it. I contacted the manufacturer and heard nothing back. I ended up buying two Döst bicycles. I really like their customer service.
I suppose one consolation is if you've bought a 'budget' e-bike, you can then switch it over as time moves forward, as you have the frame, and bars, wheels, motor, batteries and displays can always be changed out to newer parts/pieces. Some motors are not made for the long haul, so I assume if the motor doesn't fit a case within the wheel, the whole wheel assembly can be switched, no matter the size and width? Thanks for your input!
that's why he recommends mid drive mounted motors, not hub driven
Bought a £350 FIIDO D1 off aliexpress fourteen months ago , best thing I ever bought , done hundreds of miles on it , sure it’s not perfect but I needed a folder and I’m on a budget and I’m more than happy with it , it’s been places where fourteen inch wheels have no right to go including over the Pennine hills with a trailer .
I figured this out pretty quickly when I got serious about buying a new bike. As he said this is why there are so many complaints about after sale customer service for these bikes. Personally I'm not sure that you can protect yourself from these issues even buying from a local dealer as they just add another layer to the whole thing.
Help me out, my man. I'm looking for a mini ebike and as I'm starting to educate myself on the topic
I'm realizing it's a jungle I gotta trek through. What's a good one?
@@jixxytrix1705 You find an answer?
@@MR-nl8xr No, so I changed my mind.
Couldn't even get an answer from Hoggdoc here. I hate it when people do that.
Maybe he's too fancy...
@@jixxytrix1705 good luck dude.
@@jixxytrix1705 I think dudes point was that none are good
You just saved me $3000 the ebike I wanted comes from China. A friend of mine did an estimate on what I can build it would cost me $1500 thank you for this video
The other $1500 you will spend later soon, when you will need your first repair.
@@renatomercurio4774 Don't comment if you don't know.
@@guyton100 I guess this is an advice, you should have given to yourself first.
@@renatomercurio4774 I still have $1000 I spent $500 to get an older style the original bike sold for the extra $375 which I needed for upgrades and modifications. Still no problems with it
@@truedondivabrokesurvival6930 so you retrofitted a bike, and you've been using it for a couple of months with no issues?
I’m surprised that some of you were not aware of it… I live in China and everything you guys think is made by some reputable brands is made just around the corner here in China. And no… nobody is over looking any manufacturers here. It’s not like American guy walks into massive manufacturing plant and demands something. These factories here produce millions of bikes and China is by far the biggest market.
For American clients we just slap some cool looking logo on it and make it look “strong” because of those masculinity issues there. Anyways…
You guys don’t make ebikes and even if you put those parts together, you’re using Chinese parts. Batteries, controllers, frames, motors etc… So, does combining Chinese products by American company or person make it more of a American or Chinese made bike? I leave it for you to judge.
Btw, Bosch has some great motor designs and things… but please don’t assume those motors to be manufactured in Germany. China is the place where the stuff is made these days🤫
I think about that A LOT, thanks for your perspective 👍
All this needs to change.
@@mrbubblebuns3994 if you say so,sonny.
Most people don't know the difference (usually) between high quality and low quality is who controls the BOM for whatever is being built. Let a local ODM choose what capacitors/etc. get used and they'll pick stuff that's cheaper almost every time. Let's say you have a PC that's spec calls for ~80C internal temperatures, so the original design BOM calls for ceramic capacitors. Well, those are 30 cents each but an electrolytic capacitor is 5 cents each. Guess which one you get if you do not explicitly require ceramic caps in your BOM? And then, when you run your test batch of units in a thermal chamber overnight, the next morning 10-20% of them are dead. Why? Because the cheaper caps have a spec that "technically" meets 80C but only for short periods and you now have a bunch of burned out capacitors and useless PCs. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯ Note that this isn't specific to China but when they say "We can make that BOM for 20% cheaper" the management says "Awesome, do that!" And then when engineering says "If you do that, our failure rate will jump by 3-5x, dropping our already thin profit margins," management fires the engineers who told them that and goes with the ODM BOM anyway. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why Amazon reviews are WUNDERBAR for the first year of a product and then drop to 1-3 stars after the BOM rules get relaxed.
You can't live without China because you are just plain lazy. Would you be willing to work long hours for low pay. You want cheap but super good quality. In your American wet dreams.
can you design a bike keep the pedals with a hand throttle 110v 80 mile range does 60 mph to solve a commuting problem or put a stop to that cut off at 17 mph and raise it to 40mph
After doing some research, I bought a LECTRIC brand e-bike. The research I did on several different e-bikes led me to believe that the electronic controls are pretty much the product of a single manufacturer that are shared by most brands, but the physical and mechanical aspects of the various bikes can vary qute a bit. At any rate, buying the LECTRIC was a “no brainer” - best price, best features, best build quality, and best support. Of course it made me question why I would spend $879 for a 60-lb mountain bike that has to be electrically powered (because it is so heavy), as opposed to spending $479 for a 30-lb montain bike that is pedal-only. The answer is simply that an e-bike gives you a whole new cycling experience that involves a collaborative effort between the rider and the machine.
Same! Maybe they don’t manufacture them they might have found the specs they wanted - internal battery. And why is a hub motor trash? Hmmm. Sounds like the mainstream bike industry is freaking out over the popularity of the Lectric and other similar “brands”. Make a more affordable entry level bike and you will have more sales. Don’t make it be the fault of someone else’s marketing savvy the reason your business is not booming.
Hey Bill, is Lectric built in the USA ? My wife are looking as 1st time buyers of a solid built e bike & quality manufacturer & support. We are new to biking & want to buy smart & still just trying to educate ourselves on what’s out there , seems overwhelming. Thx Bob
@@bobmariano3731 they're based out of Arizona. I'm looking into buying one right now.
Thx 👍⚾️
I'm going to rent an e-bike just to try them out.
Good for people to know. Of course, this is the case with virtually *every* consumer good, including, of course, non-electric bikes. The one caveat I'd add here is that, for people who don't like to tinker, a relationship with a reputable bike shop is what you're paying (that much extra) for. Like when you buy a car from a dealership. If you don't need that relationship, great! Save some $$$. But most normal customers do.
Found that the guys at the shop I went to were pretty awesome to talk to and did good work, and the Giant brand Lafree bike (from 2019) they recommended me has honestly been heaps of fun the last couple years I've been riding it, I may like tinkering with things (built my desktop and added more ram and an extra m.2 to my laptop) but it's still awesome to have some bike nerds to talk to and work on my bike to keep it in good shape.
My only other option in my price range would have been on Amazon anyway so it's worked out pretty well
> virtually every consumer good
Yes, name names.
@@billparker8954 Its quite impossible to name names, as you'd be naming basically every product on the face of the planet. If someone outsources manufacturing, that manufacturer in question would be the one to blame for selling off extra product, or even the design of the product itself, to third party companies that are only looking for a turn-key product to make money in what they view as a growing industry.
Everything from bicycles, to condoms, to basically any piece of plastic you own in your house. If it was not made in the same country of origin as the end seller, then there is, without a doubt, a copy of it floating around waiting to be picked up and sold by a smaller off-shore company.
Got a hub motor for 8 years and still going strong! What mid drive do you have like that? Hub motors rock!
As a retired global outsourcing executive, you know what most don't, most everything is a re-labled product made offshore. It is a fact of life these days, and I retired in 2008.
How come they don’t just build the Ebikes here in the U.S and sell it here in the U.S so we don’t have to wait 10 years to get a Tire
@@mando2.049 labor cost. u can build a 1000$ bike in china but build that same bike in us would cost $3000.
@@Boemel makes sense then the companies that build bikes here would resell a labored $3000 bike for $10000
Agree with what you say... I have a Shengmilo MX01... if anything goes wrong with it.... I've no idea as to where to go.
This going on with most products to be honest I use to work for a well known tools manufacturer and all they did was buy Chinese made stuff cheap slap some logos on them and a slightly different casing and charge the customers a hell of alot more for the product.
Cough fruit shape on the products Cough
i got my bike converted with a bafang motor 3 years ago.. never had any problem and it wasnt expensive
Give us the details Who did the conversion did you do yourself? How much is inexpensive?
details, pls
I converted my Cube Race 130 with bafang, 500w and It works well. Make sure you install an anti rotating bracket, there's also a guy in Italy who 3d printed an anti chain fall device specific for bafang, It cost 50 bucks but it's worth the money.
I've ordered the battery, ready to go, from AliExpress for 200 USD.
@@skidkite I wish I could do that. No one around to mentor/guide me
@@Yowzoe the more videos you watch, the more you start thinking you can actually do this yourself....you only need basic skills, as long as your not an idiot you can pull it off bro.
Hub motors are fine for many uses. Built many hub drive and mid drive ebikes.
exactly . i bought a use ebike with a brushless gearless hub motor and it works great for driving grid and dirt roads. a bit gutless though with only 48 volts 350 watt controller box . that could all be dealt with just by simple rewinding the drive motor and upgrading the control box for more watt power. only problem is then the batteries will drain way quicker. adding to much battery will make the thing a weight beast. ebikes scooters are more for a slow and steady will get you there eventually lol mode of transportation :)) i like it though.
Hub motors are excellent for most uses.
@@carmichaelmoritz8662 I wouldn't use anything lower than 60v 500 watts.
@@samguapo4573 👍
This is so true. I saw a folding 20" fat tire e-bike on the street with no brand. Went online and worked out it must be RDK. But RDK don''t ship to Australia. Then worked out RDK just orders these to various specs from China and badges them. There are many, many differerent brands selling this bike all around the world. The gears spces, battery specs are the same, only the max speed and if it has a hand throttle or not is what is different. Motor brand - OEM!
would love to get a list of manufactures i can order from in the US
@@Jazzman5 LMAOOOOO
Seems to be the same with everything these days -- seeing alot of it in escooters as well.
True that's why we need those reviewers on UA-cam so we can make a clever move. I'm very happy with my widewheel pro scooter and aventon level. Plan to upgrade the ebike at the end of the year
I like hub motor bikes better. You just have to get the right hub motors. If a drivetrain component breaks on a mid drive, you have to fix it or you're walking. You can have your chain break on a hub motor bike and still be able to use the motor. Also on hub motor bikes you can have regenerative breaking which extends the life of your brakes and recharges your battery a little.
Got my parts from AliExpress and learned through watching lots of videos on building a repair. Cheapest way is to convert an alternator. Built my own battery too! I like hub motors best! Girl power!
Good stuff! We need more girls on ebikes! its a friggin sausage fest over here
Elizabeth Wood Way to go Girl! I’m just starting to look at e bikes and making my own would be satisfying. I drive an SUV so an e bike would be a great complement. I’ll investigate it more as soon as chemo’s over and I’ve got some time lol.😎👍
Too bad you don't have boy power; it will always be better.
@@Lot_2023 good god
Wow excellent!
Yes. Like a couple of outboard motors for boats decades ago. They were made on the same production line and went their separate ways when it was time to label them. I'm making trike from my push bike using wooden main, cross rails and rest for the seat. I may not have the fastest but the western red cedar will certainly look stylish.
Dude this video keeps paying forward. You helped me know what I needed to know about who I am deling with. I just bought a bike from Aventon, I got the Ramblas Mid mount. They helped create that system. Thanks man!
This is exactly why I have designed and am building my own bike. I can buy an electric bike for what it will cost me to build but I can't get anywhere near the performance and spare parts for it are available at any hobby shop.
what parts are you refering to for your ebike that are available at any hobby shop?
Hub motors are awesome, what are you talking about? I'm hitting 65mph with my kits all day long. And as a bonus, I've never been stranded due to a broken chain. QS makes some awesome hub motors.
Exactly, he was on the money until he started with that rubbish, hub motors outperform mid-drives any day of the week.
Hey Johnny interested in buying the Lectric ebike 2.0 stepthrough what you think about it, and who is the actual manufacturer in China ? Thanks bro 🤙
I have three custom ebikes super range 30+ mph
Great video. Thank you for keeping it real and telling the truth. I’ve recently got into bicycle repair and looking to get into e-bike repair soon, and it’s good to know that there are honest people in the community.
$42,000 was the cost of a replacement battery for a friends Brahma electric motorcycle.
my friend bought the bike slightly damaged at a salvage auction. My friend owns a collision shop and he is a motorcycle enthusiast. He thought it would be neat to have an electric bike. It was totaled because the frame had scuffs on it. Anytime a motorcycle has scuffs on the frame, it’s automatically totaled. The rest of the damage was the handlebars the front fender scuffing on the seat footpeg, nothing serious. He bought the bike for under $1000, replaced the parts that were broken, buffed the frame, and he rode the bike for three years.
he found a blog online. One of the bloggers told him to leave his key on over the weekend and it would totally discharge the battery. When he recharges the battery from totally discharged, it will recharge with a greater charge and have more range. So he did that..
it turned out to be the worst advice anyone could give. That works with lead acid deep cycle batteries, but not lithium ion batteries
My friend called the factory. They walked him through some tests over the phone. They concluded that his battery is junk and it was actually in danger of exploding all by itself in that state. They told him to get that motorcycle out of his business which is where he kept it..
so to get to the bottom line. My friend asked about a new battery, how do I go about getting a new battery
they told him that his battery or battery pack consists of seven batteries. Each battery cost $6000. The battery pack cost $42,000.
my friend searched the Internet for over a year occasionally looking for another crashed but salvageable Brahma electric motorcycle that he could salvage the battery from. No one ever came up on the websites where he looks for parts for crashed cars he repairs. He ended up selling the bike for parts on eBay..
Rubbish. The BMS will stop a Lithium battery from discharging so far that it is damaged.
Yes, you got a point. However, you forgot to mention the risks of ordering directly from the manufacturer through alibaba. You forgot to mention the insanely long shipping times, the hardship of getting the warranty claim from the manufacturer, and the inconsistency of the photos from the you actually ordered and most importantly the customs could reject the product if it did not meet regulations. I searched on reddit, there are people who ordered through alibaba and waited for several months ended up not getting the product because customs rejected it.
Yes, true indeed. This video could’ve been 3x as long going into the details. The main point is that a middle man is buying from China, then selling to a dealer who then sells to you. Lots of markups for little reason
@@JohnnyNerdOut That's pretty much how most products are sold - it's rare you are buying from the manufacturers... they don't want to be direct sellers. They sell wholesale to distributors to sell to retailers who sell to us!
ALWAYS USE PAYPAL for peace of mind
@@JohnnyNerdOut Hi Johnny excellent video. I’m looking to get the equivalent of a “GForce T42. Any possibility of pointing me in the right direction as it relates to a manufacturer? Would be tremendously appreciated.
the catch being ,one that many do not realize... is that Aliexpress and Alibaba .. you're dealing with the shipper who is IN China; whereas dealing with another maker or like Amazon,, the shipper/order fulfiller is outside of China and has faster shipping contracts in situ.
Thanks for the heads up! I lucked out. I decided to be conservative with the cash laid out. It was worth it. I learned a lot: pros and cons. A lot of the decision lies in how much the bike will be used and if the perfection is going to be a passive user (relying on the throttle) or active (pedaling and using the assist).
Of course there will be other products that do the same thing. But this guy is giving you what he knows from personal experience about bikes which 99.9% of those buying them won’t know as they shell out a fortune for the same bike they could have bought much cheaper from those who actually make them. Great post, Johnny
@JohnnyNerdOut A question: If you had a Bafang 750W BB02, would you switch from a derailleur to a internal gear hub and if so or if not, why?
I would generally. I like my IGH. Sometimes I wish I had the 8 speed instead of the 5 speed though. I have a video on this exact subject coming out very soon. But long story short as you can use a single speed chain with an internally cured hub and that is generally much stronger. And it keeps perfect chain alignment.
Well....... not exactly. I have been a "Middle Man" on a Chinese product. I did my research and then worked with the Chinese engineers to ensure it met all of my legal and promissory requirements. I paid a LOT for shipping and customs. I ordered spare parts with each purchase and 100% warranty service to my clients. Now you COULD find a similar product on Alibaba - by the same manufacturer, but you are the last person on earth that they will prioritize if you have a need for rare parts or support.
My products also needed additional electrical certification - which I invested in. My products required UPC codes for Amazon. It was very, very time consuming and expensive to provide a quality CANADIAN product that is made in China.
If you have a trusted American (or English, or Canadian) e-bike brand, then it makes no difference if they poured the sand to form the cast for the frame. All that matters is their reputation for support and after-sales parts. Right?
Hi Mr White I'm a Canadian living in Ontario what type bike do you sell and are your products available with warrantees.
@@donsayers4418 Sorry Don, the products I was importing were not ebikes.
As an e-bike owner for the past 8 years, I totally agree with everything you aay in your video. Almost all the components of the so called German brands are made in the Far East places such as China, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc but they’re branded as German products. These so called brands do nothing apart from putting the parts together and selling the final product for at least 5 times what it cost them to purchase and put together. My latest E-bike is a brand called Riese & Muller. The parts esp. the electronic parts on this bike. including such simple thing as a power cable are impossible to source unless you go to their so called dealers here in the UK who then in turn charge you an arm and a leg to supply you the part after weeks and sometimes months of waiting. I w’d never, ever buy a so called European E-bike. My next ebike w’d be one from China that doesn’t claim to be from anywhere else.
Thanks for your insight! I’m in the process of buying an e-bike but heard some horrid stories from retailers not knowing how to fix and equally the brands being unhelpful in resolving any issues with their e-bikes…R&M are a real premium brand so for you to mention the above it makes me thing long and hard whether I should part with my money. specialized seem to be a good alternative maybe? They are a UK well established brand…? Any thoughts 💭
@@MM-pb1se Like I said, I’d never buy fancy brands such as R&M for the reasons enunciated in my original text.
Any way we can have a list of 'not middlemen' companies? I'm in the market for a few e-bikes and this is GOLDEN info. Thank you!!!
Re-branding is a very common practice in most industries.
@@polymful Yep, for sure, even noticed how a ford explore and a mercury mountaineer look very similar, it's done in the auto industry a lot. Anyone that is surprised by this video hasn't done their research. This is nothing new or really secret, you just have to do your research.
@@stevelaminack1516 lol Ford and Mercury were/are literally the same company (although Mercury as a brand doesn't exist any more). This guy was talking about one company selling to another and then selling again to us.
@@stevelaminack1516 Yeah, like the other guy said Ford and Mercury were the same company. Bad analogy...Just like GM owns Chevy. This video meant literally some other manufacturer making the bikes then slapping another companies sticker on it.
I believe the Lectric bikes are made in the USA.
The only honest comment about e bikes on youtube !!
OK Rad do they have another bike that’s the same ?
That's how...all manufacturing works, unless you're in a very small-time niche market...where you might still have an arms-length relationship with the factory. The failure of most of the direct-to-consumer brands that spend absurd amounts of money on UA-cam ads and sponsorships shows that those "middle men" DO actually serve a purpose.
That purpose being to effectively rip off lazier or unaware consumers
First I figured that out and then I found the best model for the lowest price. I saved 500$ just on the brand's name.
Thank you, Johnny. It's guys like you that show us the way. Keep it up. I'll be reaching out to you on your website.
Payed out for a Specialized Turbo Levo Comp……mostly for the dealer support, luckily I do actually love the bike!!
Almost bought a cool, but pricey "local" e-bike when the "manufacturer" turned out to be a guy
who ordered 50 from China and then closed the company. #Dodged_a_Bullet
Dodged a Bullet is a fitting name for a fast bike
You are so right Johnny! I just found out the hard way by buying 2 Jasion e-bikes. Total crap! One motor failed. They don’t answer the phone, they don’t respond to emails, they have no spare parts, etc. My 5 week old Jasion X-Hunter is now a 1000 $ paperweight. I just posted a video on UA-cam to warn people. Also, Al the people who get these bike for free and tell everyone how fabulous they are, are guilty as well. They only test the bike when it’s brand new. The don’t tell you there is zero service. Keep up your work. I am sure you will be fine. We need to tell the people the truth!
ua-cam.com/video/i6j8JlGOnvs/v-deo.htmlsi=l_ERlfJUS57B8ksk
US Specialised and Trek have a lot of their components, from frame, wheels to motors contract manufactured by Taiwans Giant, who in turn have most of their manufacturing done in China. The reality is if you knew the individual manufacturers in China, you could put together a high end/spec bike for a fraction of the price.
But you can't.
But you can't.
Exactly - this is why Giant bikes are generally reviewed as better value for money than Trek or Spesh.
Everything Specialized bikes sell are from Taiwan lol. But it’s excellent quality
In many countries it is about legality to drive a bike on the road. Chinese factory can’t guarantee your that. You local shop has to confirms to the local law. Yes it more expensive, but is legal to drive.
Thank you for the info bud, that was great to let us know. Now i can make better decision when I'm ready to buy my e-bike.
Thanks for your honesty.
Great vid... plz tell me if the Avalanche Big Bear Fat Tire Rear Drive Ebike 500 Watt 20 MPH Black Adult Size ( on Ebay) & SWFT ZIP Fat tire are the same bike but with different stickers... thx I do know the SWFT is a 6 speed and the Avalanche is 7 speed casette. They appear to be identical 👀
Thanks for the video, I have done the full journey, old bike in the garage, put cheap rear hub on, it was OK, and got me hooked.
Next a new but basic bike and slapped on a Bafang mid drive, very easy and works very well super quiet.
Finally a full sus with a Yamaha system, yes expensive, but it is definitely better than the Bafang, possibly due to the torque sensor,if you have the money buy the best, but the Bafang is extremely good and easy for parts etc.
The rear hub bike has gone.
This has been the case with bike brands and manufacturers since the 80’s as far as I know! The real problem with E-bikes are the manufacturing and disposal of batteries. Also I ride Mt. bikes and now keep running into people on E-bikes in the national forest, where no motorized vehicles are aloud to be. Mind boggling that people think electric motor is not a motor? They move fast and silent and most people I have seen don’t even have the skills to ride E-bikes safely especially off road.
They are lethal in normal traffic, too. I live in a bike friendly city, so we have lots of bikeroads, mopeds are allowed on them though, but you can tell a moped, you can't tell an ebike much of the time. So like when you get to a hill and need to stand up and pump and take a bit more space, you look around and see an old lady or something, on a bike, you dont expect them to overtake you in the middle of the hill, causing all kinds of dangers.
o god one of those
@@Throku if you not expecting other people overtaking you, it is just a silly routine you worked your self into. Caution is key. Anytime. I aggree on the point that elderly people should be extra carefull with e bikes. Many of them did not ride for ages and then got an ebike. Thats dangerous
@@achimaufachse5925 You've never been on a bike in trafic I hear. Come back when you have.
@@Throku Dude. I dont even have a drivers license... I ride every meter on my bike, been the head of the local bike Club for more than 5 years, doin tricks on BMX in Park and Flatland and own 7 Bikes including a Tandem. If you get overtaken by a granny and get scarred, you should consider leaving the road to the grannies.
The "brands" that are only middlemen is really common with electric guitars. A brand called Cor-tek in Indonesia and other places are the actual maker for about 25 "brands" of guitars. Sure, all the brands order batches of their specific shape, feature list or specific colors, but they are all CorTek guitars. The funny thing is that Cor Tek also sells their own brand called CORT at significantly cheaper prices. In America we pay for a Logo, not just a product.
I will buy my next gen Specialized Turbo Levo from Alibaba, yes
Could you do a video on HOW and WHERE to go to get a bike cheap and not get ripped off by knock offs? That would be awsome. :) Great video.
I will. Spoiler alert. It isn’t buying one online
@@JohnnyNerdOut Will definitely be watching out for that one, you have earned a new subscriber today too. Thanks for the quality content brother.
Great information. I had my 14 year old bike converted nearly 2 years ago - Bafang mid section motor and lithium-ion battery for less than one third cost of a new e-bike. And it's wonderful. I liv e in Wellington New Zealand where everything is super - expensive.
Juiced Bikes in CA manufacturers their own ebikes as they own their own factory in China. Also, the CEO, Tora Harris, is also the chief designer and he spends more time in China than here at his offices and warehouses in Chula Vista, CA. He speaks fluent Mandarin and hand picks his workers in China.
Does he pay them the US's minimum wage?
@@tshawtshi3040 Yes, but he pays the Chinese in Mex pesos
Who cares what he pays them LOL
@@davidmann4533 It's funny you say that. I got friendly with one of his workers. She worked at the Juiced Zen Desk which is the place your questions go when you hit "Chat" on the Juiced site at night. She was a 19 yr old girl who ended up quitting, even though she said the money was okay.
I figured this out while checking out the market on e bikes. Do you know of customizable options for the controllers? The controllers seem to have a lot of extra plugs for extra options. I was thinking something along the lines of solar panel battery chargers or else hooking up alternate batteries or going dual wheel hub motors.
1:30 what's polybaba? Is that like alibaba?
It’s pretty much the same just more of it.
@@JohnnyNerdOut 😆
This was one of the funniest videos I've seen in a while. Thanks
I'm getting a crank shaft motor to save repair costs in the long run
@Miles Doyle Girl, dont be that stupid. Jesus never created a bicycle. The french did. Jesus have killed millions of bikers in the way to church or family.. Take that..
Thanks for helping people that may not know this information. Great to know, love your videos
Thanks 😊 can you recommend a battery or all conversion kit please. I have a good bike to convert. How much to convert? I so appreciate you sharing!
I have said build it yourself for 5+ years now. I loved the look of the Ruff-Cycles "Ruffian", but they want $5k for a 750w cruiser? LMAO...no. I built an identical looking 3k watt bike for less than half.
Its looking like I can cram 600w on my bike for like $100.
How much to build me one? Lol
Keep these coming. It's outrageous what bike companies are charging for bikes full stop. Ive been involved with cycling for 40 years. I honestly wish i could find a hobby that would replace it. I'd go back to bmx but my body won't take that now!
Thanks I definitely plan to
@@JohnnyNerdOut What are your thoughts on Rad Power bikes?
Jiu jitsu?
Nothing can replace it! 😁
Bmx is one of the WORST disciplines as far as mark-ups go on their products.
Can the battery, 250W 36B 8.0 ah be recharged with solar panel? So could be used off grid camping.
No wonder lots of bikes from different brands look a like. Just like motorcycles in Mexico and South America have similar if not the same motorcycle but different name.
I've even seen them put "Honda" on those things! Anybody that knows bikes knows good well they're not Honda.
Yep happens for most products. I worked in air-conditioning and eventually sales and just from having installed brands like Samsung, Panasonic, LG, and then later in sales, saw that the units were the same just relevantly branded, sometimes only having further differences in the compressor or control unit being different.
Word on the lineset is that York is making its USA comeback
?
You said hub motor were junk? Should I go for a mid-drive unit like Bafang then?
Awesome video Johnny. I have suspected what you have said in the video as well but do ot know which manufacturer in China build quality ebikes and can be trusted. Can you provide some info?
No Johnny, they don't just "stick a sticker on and triple the price". subcontracting isn't new, nor is white labelling. They don't just market the bike (cost) they do the import (cost), pay the duties (cost), provide pre-sale service/advice (cost), pay for warehousing (cost), pay for store space/promotion space, provide spare parts/service (cost), warranty support (cost). A dropshipper might just be putting on a sticker, but a proper brand doesn't - they do do all of the value add. Try to understand the economics of commerce... :-) Furthermore, as you admit yourself, identical looking bikes can actually be very different - the same frame might use diferent brakes, gears, batteries or motors, making it a very different bike so buing it "direct" assuming it's the same as any other is simply nonsense. A trusted/respected brand can add significant value - you're recommending buying direct from China... how's that after-sales service working out, or what do you do when you realise the cells are cr*p... Also, you didn't mention the fraudulent customs value forms that chinese shippers may add in and the other duties/taxes often avoided (illegally) - that "three times the cost" is nothing of the sort when you factor everything in. Sure, it CAN be the case that someone adds a sticker and no extra value, but often isn't...
You must be one of these “manufacturers’.
@@davehoward3645 Wow....Johnny has his own simps? He's really made it! :-) Yes...any dissent from the view must be from someone with a vested interest... Nope, I'm not even vaguely connected to the industry or anyone in it... I just prefer facts to half-truths or vague innuendo. He contradicts himself - they're all the same...they change parts.... er...
Yeah... so, almost nobody cares about all the things you're calling value add. Plus you just car salesmened and made up a few things that don't exist for consumer purchases. You can straight up look on alibaba and aliexpress and see how much it costs to get it to your front door. To me, everything you mentioned is anti-value that pointlessly hikes up the price of things they bought without doing any of the actual work to manufacture something. Its not the end-user's problem you decided to warehouse a bulk order you bought from China so you could sell everything at a marktup. Thats YOUR problem to deal with and some refer to that as the "the cost of doing business"
Want to be taken seriously? Design and manufacture your own bikes from the ground up. There is tons of room for improvement with all the cheap connector choices bafang and whatnot came up with. Anybody could easily do better if they'd just do the actual work that China is doing.
@@dustsmoke Seriously? People dont' care about after-sales service? You just spent $2000 and it's faulty and you're going to send it back to China.... ? Also, a trusted brand absolutely adds value - trusted because loads of people have bought from them and recommend them because they're using good componensts etc. Top bBrands have a reputation to maintain - that's why every McDonalds gets an A hygeine rating but independents don't...
The only thing I should look for is Bafang or Bosch motor? Does the rest doesn't matter?
This happens with almost 98% of everything on the supermarket shelves.
Excellent commentary. All the more reason to buy from China/ Alibaba. I purchased a Frey CC direct from China, its a fantastic $3K bike that specs to a 5 or 6K "US-priced" ebike.
all the more reason to not buy jack fucking shit from china....if u can help it, at least
What do you know about the Zhen brand? It is chinese. Marketed as a good quality scooter.
My Ebike with a full charge shuts off when on an uphill grade. Run perfect on level ground or downhill. It’s over 2 years old. Where is your shop.
Put a dummy near a window to distract the sharp shooters.. Good info.. My first ebike 10 years ago was a hub and service was a nightmare for this very reason.. Got a Trek ebike last month from LBS, I paid more but warrenty is excellent and service shouldn't be an issue.
How do I find out who are the brand names in ebikes?
Both of the “manufacturers” you mention are actually “brands” in this example.
Is there any additional complexity to converting a Priority Gotham (Gates belt drive, Nexus 3-speed internal hub, friction brakes) to an ebike?
My own research also determined that the mid-drives were the best. My choice would be EVELO, which appears to be a manufacturer.
Mid-drives are the best because they're lighter for a given power.
Hub motors are the best because they allow a tidy, compact & convenient installation--in the rear wheel hub.
Both are better, choose what you like :)
To many middle men that’s the problem,it gets in the way of innovation I believe as bikes haven’t really changed to much only got a whole lot more expensive and not that good quality..I could buy a good Japanese motorcycle for the price of these things and the brakes would work better also..I would also get more miles out of the chain and sprockets...It’s all one big con..I think most will tire of this BS..Ebike quality has a long way to gooooo.
I agree used moped from and old person who can no longer ride the better way to go !
What about HEYBIKE or SCOOZY? Are they manufacturers?
Thank you so much for your invaluable information, highly appreciate it.
Thanks man, you just saved me alot of money 👍🏿🙏🏿
Hey bub I got a 80’s Crome freestyle 20in huffy I would love t do evoke build is there a good motor for a single drive that will work well thx 😊
This really explains why when I was shopping for one, almost none of the websites had a "spare battery" option under accessories or anything. They had baskets and racks galore! I would think a spare battery would be a smart option to carry an extra one on you, especially for longer treks. I thought that was the craziest thing to not offer them.
same lol i cannot find a spare battery for sale for any ebike anywhere
but the battery is detachable , so why not sell a replacement
You can find replacement batteries on Amazon no problem
That’s a good idea! I never thought about buying extra battery for longer rides. The bike I just bought sells batteries. 😀
You can run two batteries. I've watched a few videos about it on youtube. There's a device for about $60. I don't remember the name but it was easy to find.
Amazon sells dozens of batteries for ebikes
The truth will set you free...thanks 4 the info
But first it’ll piss you off.
Agree mostly- hub motors are not a solid “garbage” classification
I kinda suspected my Himiway Cruiser is the same as a Rad Rover. Yes?
I love my full carbon fiber Specialized Stumpjumper and my wife’s new Trek electric Dual Sport. We have unmatched dealer service, with lifetime free adjustments and incredible re-sale value.
Interesting stuff. Can we get your take on the new Harley-Davidson "Serial 1" e-bike?
Just checked, 250w motors and price tags ranging from $3,400 to $5,000 How much you wanna bet the huge majority of it is made in Asia....Harley Davidson "American" e-bikes ....I have a 2000 Buell Cyclone they made sure to put "BUELL AMERICAN MOTORCYCLES" badge on the gas tank but when you look under the gas cap. It says, made in Taiwan in small print lol
@@michaelbrinks8089
No doubt the H-D ebike will be Asian made. It also seems expensive. But is it a good value? Knowing nothing about ebikes in general, I cannot adequately judge them.
It really doesn't matter if it's any good, it says Harley Davidson. That's worth $5000 even if you have to push it home. 😉
@@curtwuollet2912 Hardly Davidson.
Not just bikes, pritty much everything!
Yeah! mugged with a smile everyday bro
Does the key missing prevent the bike from working or just for removing the battery?
Johnny, you"ve got my attention. Great information that has already modified my view of ebike purchase. Had to subscribe, just to see what kind of fatal "accident" you suffer at the hands of the bike sales mafia. LOL
Great info. This is facts right here.... I do love my hub motor tho 👀. Gonna check out your vid on why they suck, lemme see if it changes my mind
I keep hearing people talk about this. But my brain works logically and he doesn't say anything bad about the the competition. He just keeps calling them middle Men. And that's not a bad thing.