I put the Apex trigger in my M&P Compact 2.0 and with the spring combination I used the pull weight is right at 4 pounds with very little take up. I thought maybe it was to light, however, I got use to it very fast and learned where the wall was and the pull weight feel. It is a great trigger and very safe. The big plus is I shoot it so much better than the factory trigger.
I don’t think there is an intellectual answer to this question- if you can’t keep it inside the lines racing a beep from the holster then no, it’s probably not safe. I think reducing the trigger travel is a generally bad idea because we all degrade to trigger slappers under stress. I don’t think the way to make this decision is from a high ready on a square range.
Eh - to determine if you can handle a shorter trigger that's lighter it would be more testing than training. A lot of dudes don't have access to a dynamic range to really test that to see. Some guys have the discipline to not crank off rounds - some don't. My only point is if you get on that trigger too fast trying to prep it in a draw stroke you could have a bad time.
I agree with your assessment; however, my main concern is whether or not reducing the take up or pretravel eliminates any of the internal safeties. Has not the fellow at Shadow Systems demonstrated that doing so on a Glock eliminates the 3rd or drop safety?
I have the Apex flatty on my 2.0 EDC and it's been easy for me to handle even after getting "used to" the factory trigger setup. I think when it comes to firearms, as long as the user is safe, the rest is safe. Slow is smooth - smooth is fast. Stay safe, everyone.
Apex has great triggers, especially the flat face ones. I have several installed on different firearms. If you train safely and are proficient with your platform there shouldn't be any concerns. practical Gun safety. excellent presentation.
Great subject. I have about 3 years experience with apex trigger upgrades and for me they don’t belong on my carry guns. Under stress a 12 lb trigger gets slapped and in all honesty you couldn’t tell it from a 1 lb trigger. But the biggest factor is draw and shoot and unfortunately when moving fast the finger arrives on trigger faster than sights on target. Save the upgrades for the competition.
I have felt that way also , unless you have an external safety, that trigger finger sometimes has a mind of its own and when you pull the gun from its holster and if you bump something as your finger goes onto that trigger pad that’s where the gun can start , or dropping the gun and you try to catch it before it hits the ground that finger can get in there.
Ive got the apex duty carry action enhancement curved trigger kit on my m&p 2.0 compact. I feel very safe carrying it it still has all the internal safeties and my holster covers the trigger. I don't see how people can see that being unsafe plus I shoot that gun better then any other gun I own at the moment.
Got mine back from Sig with the dropsafe recall... I installed the new APEX advanced flat faced trigger along with there new trigger Bar ..it has a consistent wall crisp 5 pound Pull every time ... very nice short pull and reset to me it is very safe to carry .
What are your favorite/top single stack subcompacts for summer to carry? What’s your top double stack subcompacts? I appreciate all I’ve learned on your double stacked compacts. I live in South Carolina it’s going to get hot again soon. I own a tricked out glock 43 and have a walther pps m2 le. I wasn’t sure if there was anything you could recommend. I like having options in my edc rotation. In colder months I switch between my PPQ Navy, 2.0 compact, and cz p10. Love all of them and trying to get a hand on a styer to shoot. Since you like them so much and we share similar taste. I would appreciate any feedback, keep up the great 👍🏼 work ! Thanks for being honest and keeping it real !
1776 or Bust Wow ! That was really quick response time! I appreciate your response and am def going to try out a shield for sure the 365 felt really small in the hand, I use extenders so can always get a full grip ( Just doesn’t feel right otherwise ). How about compacts ? And do you own or collect cz 75 originals or brownings?
I'd say for the most part.. I have a apex in my 19X, and the safety tab doesn't really do much, you only have to pull it literally half a millimeter if that before the trigger can be pulled. Literally only a hair and it's disengaged.
@@nickallen8333 Without the trigger safety tab, the trigger can pull itself due to the amount of momentum it has and disable all other safety devices (when dropped vertically). P320 had this problem until they drastically reduced the weight of the trigger shoe, and glock trigger shoe was never designed to be drop safe without the trigger safety active. The "drop safety" in the ejector housing deals with horizontal drops.
@@IR-xy3ij With glocks there are 3 different safeties. Firing pin block, drop safe, and trigger tab. If you take the tab out of the trigger shoe you still have to fully depress the trigger which is 5-6 LBs to over come the other two. I don’t see that happening from dropping it. Don’t pull the trigger and it won’t go boom.
I didn't see a need to put one on any of my EDCs, I did put one on my shooter for fun. I don't bother with triggers, RMRs or even sights except for I do prefer night sights on an EDC. It's going to work when you need it and the extras aren't necessary and some make the gun bulkier.
Me personally, I like the Apex trigger on the m&p. That hinged factory trigger is junk. Shirt snags can catch the hinged trigger and fire it, got it to happen twice out of 100 tries. The Apex trigger hasn't fired from a shirt snag once and I've tried it over 150 times. Only wish I would of gone with the flat faced trigger than the curved trigger cause the flat faced trigger moves your finger farther forward.
👋! You answered some questions I had in regards to single stacks and subcompact double stacks. Very grateful for the advice and opinion. What would you recommend for compact and full-size?
Safe is a relative term. There are people who climb sheer cliffs with a carabiner and rope and feel safe. Since I have zero climbing experience or training using the proper equipment, it wouldn't be safe for me. Absolutely agree that training is key.
Just picked up an M&P m2.0 Compact with a manual thumb safety...the apex carry trigger won't effect the reliability of the safety function will it? I do carry appendix with one in the pipe?
Even before all the reported issues with the 320 firing while dropped, common sense told me it was going to be a problem due to the lack of the trigger flapper. Every other premium striker fired pistol has some type of trigger safety dingus to prevent unintentional discharge. In my humble opinion, the P320 should be relegated to range duty only. I am not comfortable carrying one for self-defense, except perhaps manual safety versions, but I hate manual safeties on a SD pistol.
When you pull your weapon, your increased heart rate and level of stress cannot be measured. My concern is not the trigger. My concern is a smooth weapon transition and pulling the weapon up to my eye line of sight. I don’t do any modifications on a carry pistol. I feel reliability can be compromised with any modifications. I care more about the sights on a gun, the holster, and proper training. You cannot predict your reaction in a stress situation. In my opinion, the trigger will not affect your success or failure.
When i was in police academy we had 22 cadets n 2 weeks we had 4 accidental discharges with stock glocks. It would scare the crap out of me if the cadets where carring these !! Just saying.
I think you wasted your money putting one on the ppq lol I put a after market trigger on my ar and don’t regret that at all. I haven’t done anything to my pistols.
17 - First you convince me I should put an Apex on my PPQ, then you put out an "Are They Safe" video. You _are_ aware of my acute anxiety issues, aren't you? :) To me, "safe" is too relative a term. To Diane Feinstein, all firearms are unsafe. To James Yeager, Diane Feinstein is unsafe. Since it appears that most Apex upgrades eliminate the easy take-up distance w/o changing the final firing pull weight, it can be argued this wouldn't increase the likelihood of an inadvertent bang by the shooter. But it would allow a larger object to more easily get into the trigger guard, defeat the trigger mounted safety if there is one, and set the firearm off. Probably a negligent discharge in the eyes of the law. So don't ever put _any_ pistol into a pocket with anything -- keys, EDC flashlight, etc. -- w/o at least a _tight_ trigger guard 'holster' fitted. Don't buy a jacket with pull strings located near or have carabiners, etc. near your carry position. Reholster slowly and watch your pistol and hands while your reholstering. The usual stuff we tend to forget. However, where the Apex upgrade can reduce the final pull fire weight, then I'd say the upgrade inherently makes the pistol more likely to be negligently discharged, requiring increased training & vigilance by the shooter. Reducing pull fire weight can create legal problems if you ever have to explain yourself in court. _For that reason, I wouldn't recommend that type of Apex upgrade to newer shooters at all._ And I'd probably never reduce the stock firing weight on any _defensive_ firearm. -
yes you must be right I'm sure you're a master marksman... I checked your channel but your one sub (mom)and no videos made it difficult to determine your expertise.
I put the Apex trigger in my M&P Compact 2.0 and with the spring combination I used the pull weight is right at 4 pounds with very little take up. I thought maybe it was to light, however, I got use to it very fast and learned where the wall was and the pull weight feel. It is a great trigger and very safe. The big plus is I shoot it so much better than the factory trigger.
I think that as well
I don’t think there is an intellectual answer to this question- if you can’t keep it inside the lines racing a beep from the holster then no, it’s probably not safe. I think reducing the trigger travel is a generally bad idea because we all degrade to trigger slappers under stress. I don’t think the way to make this decision is from a high ready on a square range.
TheHumbleMarksman then how would you decide?
1776 or Bust drills from the holster on the timer on targets of varying difficulties. And drills presenting the gun and not shooting it.
TheHumbleMarksman so in other words training 👍
Eh - to determine if you can handle a shorter trigger that's lighter it would be more testing than training. A lot of dudes don't have access to a dynamic range to really test that to see. Some guys have the discipline to not crank off rounds - some don't. My only point is if you get on that trigger too fast trying to prep it in a draw stroke you could have a bad time.
I agree with your assessment; however, my main concern is whether or not reducing the take up or pretravel eliminates any of the internal safeties. Has not the fellow at Shadow Systems demonstrated that doing so on a Glock eliminates the 3rd or drop safety?
I have the Apex flatty on my 2.0 EDC and it's been easy for me to handle even after getting "used to" the factory trigger setup.
I think when it comes to firearms, as long as the user is safe, the rest is safe.
Slow is smooth - smooth is fast.
Stay safe, everyone.
Apex has great triggers, especially the flat face ones. I have several installed on different firearms. If you train safely and are proficient with your platform there shouldn't be any concerns. practical Gun safety. excellent presentation.
The ArmzMen thank you sir
Great subject. I have about 3 years experience with apex trigger upgrades and for me they don’t belong on my carry guns. Under stress a 12 lb trigger gets slapped and in all honesty you couldn’t tell it from a 1 lb trigger. But the biggest factor is draw and shoot and unfortunately when moving fast the finger arrives on trigger faster than sights on target. Save the upgrades for the competition.
I have felt that way also , unless you have an external safety, that trigger finger sometimes has a mind of its own and when you pull the gun from its holster and if you bump something as your finger goes onto that trigger pad that’s where the gun can start , or dropping the gun and you try to catch it before it hits the ground that finger can get in there.
Ive got the apex duty carry action enhancement curved trigger kit on my m&p 2.0 compact. I feel very safe carrying it it still has all the internal safeties and my holster covers the trigger. I don't see how people can see that being unsafe plus I shoot that gun better then any other gun I own at the moment.
Shawn M agreed
Got mine back from Sig with the dropsafe recall... I installed the new APEX advanced flat faced trigger along with there new trigger Bar ..it has a consistent wall crisp 5 pound Pull every time ... very
nice short pull and reset to me it is very safe to carry .
taz Man damn mines about 6 and change
Really well I got exactly 2,500 rounds on my full size 320 9mm ..
taz Man I was just telling KS I gotta shoot it so much more
yeah I hear yah... I do lots of it
What are your favorite/top single stack subcompacts for summer to carry?
What’s your top double stack subcompacts?
I appreciate all I’ve learned on your double stacked compacts. I live in South Carolina it’s going to get hot again soon. I own a tricked out glock 43 and have a walther pps m2 le. I wasn’t sure if there was anything you could recommend. I like having options in my edc rotation.
In colder months I switch between my PPQ Navy, 2.0 compact, and cz p10. Love all of them and trying to get a hand on a styer to shoot. Since you like them so much and we share similar taste. I would appreciate any feedback, keep up the great 👍🏼 work ! Thanks for being honest and keeping it real !
Michelle Woiculevicz single stacks shield, pps m2, glock 43, p365 (based on others opinions), ruger lcp......double stack steyr s9, glock 26, walther p99sc, xd mod 2(surprise), p320 sc
1776 or Bust Wow ! That was really quick response time! I appreciate your response and am def going to try out a shield for sure the 365 felt really small in the hand, I use extenders so can always get a full grip ( Just doesn’t feel right otherwise ). How about compacts ?
And do you own or collect cz 75 originals or brownings?
I'd say for the most part.. I have a apex in my 19X, and the safety tab doesn't really do much, you only have to pull it literally half a millimeter if that before the trigger can be pulled. Literally only a hair and it's disengaged.
The purpose of the trigger tab is to make the gun drop safe and that's it
@@IR-xy3ij glocks drop safe is internal
@@nickallen8333 Without the trigger safety tab, the trigger can pull itself due to the amount of momentum it has and disable all other safety devices (when dropped vertically). P320 had this problem until they drastically reduced the weight of the trigger shoe, and glock trigger shoe was never designed to be drop safe without the trigger safety active. The "drop safety" in the ejector housing deals with horizontal drops.
@@IR-xy3ij With glocks there are 3 different safeties. Firing pin block, drop safe, and trigger tab. If you take the tab out of the trigger shoe you still have to fully depress the trigger which is 5-6 LBs to over come the other two. I don’t see that happening from dropping it. Don’t pull the trigger and it won’t go boom.
I haven't shot in a year or so because of my shoulder. That being said I would do dry fire training to get used to the trigger
I didn't see a need to put one on any of my EDCs, I did put one on my shooter for fun. I don't bother with triggers, RMRs or even sights except for I do prefer night sights on an EDC. It's going to work when you need it and the extras aren't necessary and some make the gun bulkier.
I have a couple of the older one's and like them pretty well.
Rich1911 they are pretty darn good
I love them , but I do not use them on my carry guns ! That's just my preference . But they are sweet triggers
I've had my Apex Trigger for almost 2 years, Best Thing I did to my Sig Sauer P320 RX!
Excellent vid brother and I think yes, they are safe. Just train!
KSGunGuy totally agree
Me personally, I like the Apex trigger on the m&p. That hinged factory trigger is junk. Shirt snags can catch the hinged trigger and fire it, got it to happen twice out of 100 tries. The Apex trigger hasn't fired from a shirt snag once and I've tried it over 150 times. Only wish I would of gone with the flat faced trigger than the curved trigger cause the flat faced trigger moves your finger farther forward.
you make a valid point. I think the apex in some regards is safer than the hinge as you suggested
Pretty sure any trigger with a trigger safety, like those in glocks, has to have at least some pre travel in order to operate the safety correctly.
👋! You answered some questions I had in regards to single stacks and subcompact double stacks. Very grateful for the advice and opinion. What would you recommend for compact and full-size?
Michelle Woiculevicz compacts, steyr m9, cz p01,pcr,p10, m&p 2.0c, ppq, full size m&p 2.0, cz phantom,vp9,xd mod 2 serv.pistol,apx,px4
1776 or Bust thanks 🙏
Michelle Woiculevicz 👍
Safe is a relative term. There are people who climb sheer cliffs with a carabiner and rope and feel safe. Since I have zero climbing experience or training using the proper equipment, it wouldn't be safe for me. Absolutely agree that training is key.
Sprinco makes a spring kit for the PPQ that drops trigger weight to about 4lbs.
Combined with the apex it's butta
Just picked up an M&P m2.0 Compact with a manual thumb safety...the apex carry trigger won't effect the reliability of the safety function will it? I do carry appendix with one in the pipe?
Not at all
@@1776orbust enough said I'm sold thanks! 🍻
I'd be curious about drop safe.
Even before all the reported issues with the 320 firing while dropped, common sense told me it was going to be a problem due to the lack of the trigger flapper. Every other premium striker fired pistol has some type of trigger safety dingus to prevent unintentional discharge. In my humble opinion, the P320 should be relegated to range duty only. I am not comfortable carrying one for self-defense, except perhaps manual safety versions, but I hate manual safeties on a SD pistol.
When you pull your weapon, your increased heart rate and level of stress cannot be measured. My concern is not the trigger. My concern is a smooth weapon transition and pulling the weapon up to my eye line of sight. I don’t do any modifications on a carry pistol. I feel reliability can be compromised with any modifications. I care more about the sights on a gun, the holster, and proper training. You cannot predict your reaction in a stress situation. In my opinion, the trigger will not affect your success or failure.
What springs are you using on the m2.0 for that trigger pull weight?
I ain’t Scared! Carry on
Excellent video. The 2.0 with the apex looks awesome. PPQ apex or 2.0 apex? THANKS
Those all look like great triggers, but I think the M&P version looks the best. lol
When i was in police academy we had 22 cadets n 2 weeks we had 4 accidental discharges with stock glocks. It would scare the crap out of me if the cadets where carring these !! Just saying.
They just fired without the triggers being pulled?
I think you wasted your money putting one on the ppq lol I put a after market trigger on my ar and don’t regret that at all. I haven’t done anything to my pistols.
mulekicker 1919 100% disagree
Great content man. Glad I found your channel mah man
17 - First you convince me I should put an Apex on my PPQ, then you put out an "Are They Safe" video. You _are_ aware of my acute anxiety issues, aren't you? :)
To me, "safe" is too relative a term. To Diane Feinstein, all firearms are unsafe. To James Yeager, Diane Feinstein is unsafe.
Since it appears that most Apex upgrades eliminate the easy take-up distance w/o changing the final firing pull weight, it can be argued this wouldn't increase the likelihood of an inadvertent bang by the shooter. But it would allow a larger object to more easily get into the trigger guard, defeat the trigger mounted safety if there is one, and set the firearm off. Probably a negligent discharge in the eyes of the law. So don't ever put _any_ pistol into a pocket with anything -- keys, EDC flashlight, etc. -- w/o at least a _tight_ trigger guard 'holster' fitted. Don't buy a jacket with pull strings located near or have carabiners, etc. near your carry position. Reholster slowly and watch your pistol and hands while your reholstering. The usual stuff we tend to forget.
However, where the Apex upgrade can reduce the final pull fire weight, then I'd say the upgrade inherently makes the pistol more likely to be negligently discharged, requiring increased training & vigilance by the shooter. Reducing pull fire weight can create legal problems if you ever have to explain yourself in court. _For that reason, I wouldn't recommend that type of Apex upgrade to newer shooters at all._ And I'd probably never reduce the stock firing weight on any _defensive_ firearm.
-
I just prefer a flat face trigger.
Good stuff, appreciate the informative explanation.
Telling the Truth thanks I appreciate it
Nice video. just got my apex for the p320 rx today.
Apex now makes triggers for you Ruger MK IV 👍🏼
If they are still "drop safe" ...the triggers are safe. Follow the 4 basics safety rules.
Awesome triggers. Great video. 👍
I had Sig put a flat faced trigger in my P320. Can't wait to shoot it.
Channel Cat Chaser it's a shooter for sure
Some good info sir...Those Apex triggers seem to be so nice as I really dig the flat face style....Good stuff...
Waste of money to swap out a ppq trigger, it is perfect out of the box! I bet you can't shoot worth a damn
yes you must be right I'm sure you're a master marksman... I checked your channel but your one sub (mom)and no videos made it difficult to determine your expertise.
Good stuff bro!
My apex trigger was terrible
is it me or your hands shake a lot...
Noel Danganan apparantly you don't read the description.
oh yeah sorry bout that..
Poop 320