Good thing I found this video.! My 78 ford 351m starts good when cold. But once’s it up to temperature it’ll barely turn over. Like if it was out of timing/ dead battery but no it runs well. I’ll have to look into replacing my starter!
@@BradyWeatherford dollar for dollar it’s one of the best upgrades you can do. Plus the gear drive starters do not draw as much current when cranking either.
Great video! I've done this starter swap several times and it works great. I've had good luck with the DB Electrical starter #SFD0030 Starter for big blocks with automatics for $70.93. The small block number is 410-14023 for automatics at $67.01. New not rebuilt, and no core needed. Both commonly found on Amazon. I have one on a 400 with a Mutha Thumper cam and this starter worked great.
I'll have to remember that. I have bought from DB Electrical before to get parts to fix starters but I haven't ever bought a new starter from them. I'll have to try them out.
@@Bikerbob59 if you have a small block Ford or 335 or 385 series Ford, no doubt the factory gear drive starters are the way to go. Less weight, more cranking power, and they draw less current from the battery when cranking. It’s a win win all the way around
I have had the ground cables be bad and cause slow starting also. They will look fine on the outside but I guess the are corroded inside under the insulation. I have used the negative side of a set of jumper cables ran from the negative on the battery to a good ground on the engine to see if it makes a difference when cranking. If it does then I replace the ground cable.
I believe all you have to do is put an eyelet on that small wire on the starter, which I believe is a fuseable link, over to the main cable post on the solenoid on the starter and leave the cable on the solenoid on the fender well where it was originally from the factory. This is how Ford had the 460s setup with 2 starter solenoids in the 70s and 80s. It's what GM guys would do if they put a Ford solenoid on their cars with headers heat soaking their starters before mini staters became available. Oh course they would have to run their wire from the starter to the Ford solenoid they installed.
@@JrSamples-g4v if you’re talking about using a jumper wire on the starter mounted solenoid, Ford specifically recommends to not do this. It will work but it can also cause the starter to run on for about two seconds after the engine is running. I tried it myself years ago and it happened to me as well when I tried it.
@ some people seem to not have that problem but I know I did when I tried it and Ford and others warn to not hook them up that way because it will cause run on. Why some guys don’t have that problem I’m not sure?
Did this to my 86 F250 years ago, really like the upgrade. One thing I will say though, years ago we ordered a stock direct drive 390 automatic starter and didn't use it, I wound up using it in my 4 door galaxie eventually. Looking it up it appears to actually be a 302 starter that was sent as it only has two bolt holes instead of three. It's been working perfect for 4 years now, wonder if a SBF PMGR starter would also work?
@@BlackLabGarage They are the same, just the SBF lacks the third bolt ear. Apparently the engagement is the same as well, 3/4" throw or whatever it is. The starter I have on there now cross references to my truck as well. I bet a PMGR SBF starter would work with it.
@@BlackLabGarage Sure looks like it. Both are 9 tooth bendix gears with 3/4" throw. The location in relation to the center of the starter looks the same as well although the PMGR starters are offset from center-line a bit because they're 10? tooth gears. I looked up the bendix for a 1989 F150 with a 351 automatic and its the same Standard SDN-77 starter drive as for a 1968 Ford galaxie with a 390 automatic. I'm going to say a 302/351 PMGR starter will very likely work with a FE/auto trans with 184 tooth ring gear.
@@bryanrodriguez6759 honestly I couldn’t say for sure since that balancer is old and more than likely has slippage. Since the 400 will be coming out eventually I just set the timing where the engine runs the best and I let the initial be whatever it is. But I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it wasn’t 18-20 degrees of initial or possibly more
@@Bbbbad724 unfortunately not a factory Ford gear drive starter that will fit an FE. I think Power Master and some others offer the gear drive mini starters for the FE though. I’ve ran a stroker 351W with 11:1 compression and it was a pain to crank with the old style starters after it got hot. I also busted the mounting ears off of one starter cranking it. After I switched to the gear drive starters I never had another problem
Powermaster, RobbMC starters are apparently the cats meow for FE starters. There was also a factory Ford style PMGR hybrid FE starter on Amazon for a decent price that got good reviews, not sure if its still on there. I have one FE powermaster starter and it's been just fine. One thing I will say though, I have another FE without headers that makes 200+ PSI cranking compression and the stock starter cranks that thing over like a boss.
@ I wasn’t that lucky. That stroker Windsor I had in a fox body mustang had 225 psi cranking compression. When it got hot, those direct drive starters would drag and drag trying to crank it. One of them broke the mounting ears off of it trying to crank it.
@ I broke off the nose cone and the bendix. It was about 225-230 hot, you would think it would have broken off the ears, it was on the 11.5:1 413 ci FE, it was hard on starters. I finally got a RobMc one . I sold the car. He is still running it.
Good thing I found this video.! My 78 ford 351m starts good when cold. But once’s it up to temperature it’ll barely turn over. Like if it was out of timing/ dead battery but no it runs well. I’ll have to look into replacing my starter!
@@LuisAcosta-ro9xf Thank You for your kind words!
Awesome! If/when the starter on my 460 dies this is what I’m doing. Thanks!
@@BradyWeatherford dollar for dollar it’s one of the best upgrades you can do. Plus the gear drive starters do not draw as much current when cranking either.
Great video, learned something new today, thank you!
@@TheHord you’re welcome! Thank you for watching!
Great video! I've done this starter swap several times and it works great. I've had good luck with the DB Electrical starter #SFD0030 Starter for big blocks with automatics for $70.93. The small block number is 410-14023 for automatics at $67.01. New not rebuilt, and no core needed. Both commonly found on Amazon. I have one on a 400 with a Mutha Thumper cam and this starter worked great.
I'll have to remember that. I have bought from DB Electrical before to get parts to fix starters but I haven't ever bought a new starter from them. I'll have to try them out.
Thanks been wondering what to do with all my old fords.
@@Bikerbob59 if you have a small block Ford or 335 or 385 series Ford, no doubt the factory gear drive starters are the way to go. Less weight, more cranking power, and they draw less current from the battery when cranking. It’s a win win all the way around
Thanks, need to do this soon. Mine is very slow starting. 351M/C6 in my 1979 Bronco.
I have had the ground cables be bad and cause slow starting also. They will look fine on the outside but I guess the are corroded inside under the insulation. I have used the negative side of a set of jumper cables ran from the negative on the battery to a good ground on the engine to see if it makes a difference when cranking. If it does then I replace the ground cable.
Interesting, thank you sir 👍😁
@@davestewart9146 You’re welcome! Thank you for your kind words and continued support for my channel. It’s appreciated more than you could ever know
I believe all you have to do is put an eyelet on that small wire on the starter, which I believe is a fuseable link, over to the main cable post on the solenoid on the starter and leave the cable on the solenoid on the fender well where it was originally from the factory. This is how Ford had the 460s setup with 2 starter solenoids in the 70s and 80s. It's what GM guys would do if they put a Ford solenoid on their cars with headers heat soaking their starters before mini staters became available. Oh course they would have to run their wire from the starter to the Ford solenoid they installed.
@@JrSamples-g4v if you’re talking about using a jumper wire on the starter mounted solenoid, Ford specifically recommends to not do this. It will work but it can also cause the starter to run on for about two seconds after the engine is running. I tried it myself years ago and it happened to me as well when I tried it.
@@BlackLabGarage I can confirm the starter will run on, which is why I won't do it that way even though it's a little easier to install.
@ some people seem to not have that problem but I know I did when I tried it and Ford and others warn to not hook them up that way because it will cause run on. Why some guys don’t have that problem I’m not sure?
Did this to my 86 F250 years ago, really like the upgrade. One thing I will say though, years ago we ordered a stock direct drive 390 automatic starter and didn't use it, I wound up using it in my 4 door galaxie eventually. Looking it up it appears to actually be a 302 starter that was sent as it only has two bolt holes instead of three. It's been working perfect for 4 years now, wonder if a SBF PMGR starter would also work?
@@MattsRageFitGarage I’ve never checked the bolt pattern between an FE and SBF starter. It may be they are the same
@@BlackLabGarage They are the same, just the SBF lacks the third bolt ear. Apparently the engagement is the same as well, 3/4" throw or whatever it is. The starter I have on there now cross references to my truck as well. I bet a PMGR SBF starter would work with it.
@ does the bendix itself appear to be the same?
@@BlackLabGarage Sure looks like it. Both are 9 tooth bendix gears with 3/4" throw. The location in relation to the center of the starter looks the same as well although the PMGR starters are offset from center-line a bit because they're 10? tooth gears. I looked up the bendix for a 1989 F150 with a 351 automatic and its the same Standard SDN-77 starter drive as for a 1968 Ford galaxie with a 390 automatic. I'm going to say a 302/351 PMGR starter will very likely work with a FE/auto trans with 184 tooth ring gear.
Love your videos definitely looking forward to my starter giving out now lol jk jk how much initial timing are you running?
@@bryanrodriguez6759 honestly I couldn’t say for sure since that balancer is old and more than likely has slippage. Since the 400 will be coming out eventually I just set the timing where the engine runs the best and I let the initial be whatever it is. But I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it wasn’t 18-20 degrees of initial or possibly more
Is there a starter for the FE? My 60 year old one is still working but when I get it to 12:1 I might need a little starter like that.
@@Bbbbad724 unfortunately not a factory Ford gear drive starter that will fit an FE. I think Power Master and some others offer the gear drive mini starters for the FE though. I’ve ran a stroker 351W with 11:1 compression and it was a pain to crank with the old style starters after it got hot. I also busted the mounting ears off of one starter cranking it. After I switched to the gear drive starters I never had another problem
Powermaster, RobbMC starters are apparently the cats meow for FE starters. There was also a factory Ford style PMGR hybrid FE starter on Amazon for a decent price that got good reviews, not sure if its still on there. I have one FE powermaster starter and it's been just fine. One thing I will say though, I have another FE without headers that makes 200+ PSI cranking compression and the stock starter cranks that thing over like a boss.
@ I wasn’t that lucky. That stroker Windsor I had in a fox body mustang had 225 psi cranking compression. When it got hot, those direct drive starters would drag and drag trying to crank it. One of them broke the mounting ears off of it trying to crank it.
@@BlackLabGarage Yeah not sure I must have a really good one. It cranks over just as fast as that old 352 as well.
@ I broke off the nose cone and the bendix. It was about 225-230 hot, you would think it would have broken off the ears, it was on the 11.5:1 413 ci FE, it was hard on starters. I finally got a RobMc one . I sold the car. He is still running it.