I like your videos! People criticize that you don't have shrouds & whatnot because they forgot that they came here because that, like me, they know nothing.
I tension my backstay not only to reduce power in the main, but also to reduce drag. When beating upwind, there is an equilibrium to find between drag and power.
I appreciate your explanation and moving the mast and straining the back stay. You give new meaning to A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words. Your demo is much better than even a picture. Fantastic
A Backstay tensioner on a masthead sloop accomplishes one positive thing. It can take some of the sag out of the head stay when desired. It also however does a lot of bad things as well. It puts a lot of extra load on forestay, backstay, headsail luff, halyard, and fore and aft chain plates. Also cool for a racing boat, but not so much on a long distance cruising boat. Excess pre-load is something to avoid when possible.
Indeed. We have our headstay tension set with the backstay half set. This lets me out a little extra tension if the air got colder, and ease it completely when we are anchored or going downwind.
Balance- Top to Bottom, mast to keel, and front to back with the mast being center point. Learning to balance the sails in concert with using the standard rigging to mainly keep the mast vertical. Lots to think about. Thank you.
Thankyou for a great video. Another reason for fractional riggs is the aspect between the main and the headsail. Most older boats (before the sailboat boom 50 years agoo) in my part of the world (scandinavia) have fractional riggs. More due to the ability to sheet the headsail with no or small winches. Boats like the old Swedish folkboat had 3/4 rigg (with a diamond to handle the fore stay tension) and many was built without winches due to cost.
Thanks! Putting outriggers on my canoe at this moment. Had been at a loss as what to consider in sail adaptation. You've helped an Old Dog "70" with a dream and maybe even pass the sailing bug on to grandkids.
I don't own a boat, just dream of owning one. In the meantime I am soaking up as much information because I find sailboats to be intriguing. Your "stick and string" videos are very informative. I have watched other people explain these very same topics, and I come away with one question. "What!?" Thank you for explaining it so clearly.
Thanks! My goal is to make these topics easier to understand because sometimes I feel like the ones explaining it don’t fully understand it and therefore make it too complicated for you to come up with a question 🤪 Glad they are helpful to you; Sailing is a great dream to make reality ⛵️
There's another advantage to a fractional rig, epically a 3/4 one. My boat had one without a bendy mast. I quickly learned that my first reef was to simply roll the jib up. The boat sailed well without it. This made tacking in blustery winds so much easier, in a boat that had a bad habit of getting caught in stays. If there was enough wind, the jib stayed in the sail bag.
The main advantage is simply more leverage from the backstay to make the headstay tighter for going upwind. If the mast wasn’t bendy, then the whole thing would come back maybe less than an inch and that would make the headstay tighter as well. That’s pretty sweet that you could sail so well without the headsail. Only having one sail to work is always easier than dealing with two sails!
Great video. It could be improved by either using black threads for the shrouds or shoot before a darker back ground as it is hard to see the shroulds.
Great stuff Herby. I know this is an old video but I'm thinking of adding a staysail to my fractionally rigged Najad 360 and not sure wether a slutter rig is even advisable. Being a cruising boat with a frac rig and a 145% genoa, it needs something for heavier air.
Especially on a Cutter, with inner forestay and permanent or running backstays, it is almost impossible the induce any bend in the mast by tensioning the backstay.
You are teaching some important sailing concepts for free... you should post a Venmo so folks can send you a “tip.” You are offering more than the sailing schools I have seen. Thank you!
This is why we have Patreon, they get early access to all these kinds of videos 😉 I just feel that this kind of knowledge helps people and shouldn’t be trapped behind a paywall 😎
@@CaptMarkSVAlcina This guy is setting a standard that is hard for us to follow. I asked if he could make a video about this topic yesterday (Norway time) , I got a answer back "soon" he wasn't joking.
Life on an island , that is why he called himself the Rigging Doctor because he delivers just like a Doctor delivery baby’s, when ask he does. And by the way I thought you lifted in New Zealand, now I see you life in Norway.
@@CaptMarkSVAlcina Norwegian born and raised. I don't know if that is a good thing or not but that's what I've got so I guess I'll say it with pride and make the most of it! So where in the world do you feel at home?
Great instructional approach! I have a question though, where can I find out what capacity my 4/1 mainsheet rig specifications are? No luck on the web as yet but as it was missing when I acquired my boat it’s been tough it’s a 1978 20’ O’Day with a fractional rig.
That might be really hard to find. I would suggest copying a similar setup from a different but similar sized boat. You want to base your comparison on the mainsail area and if the mainsheet is in the middle or the end of the boom. Find one that’s similar and replicate it on your boat.
The real reason a fractional rig doesn't belong on a long distance cruiser is all the mast movement/pumping the boat does sailing in waves. Cruising sailboats need to be made to last, and all the movement in a fractional rig is a recipe for expensive important things breaking eventually. That's why you don't see them on well designed ocean boats. Draught is removed, or moved fore or aft, to depower, or redirect the coefficient of lift produced by the sail.
Do you know if fractional rig mainsail and masthead mainsails have different cut? Trying to see if J/105 mainsail can be used on J/35. My concern is that tip of the mast on j/105 can be bent aft easily. Is it reflected in the mainsail shape/cut for J/105?
I can see how pulling the luff forward will flatten the sail reducing drag and lift. How does this compare to using the sheet traveler and vang to increase twist dumping air out of the top third of the leach? When should I choose either adjustment. It seems to me they are opposite trim to achieve the same benefit.
Capt Chef Mark SV Alcina that will be come really complicated!Also the most of the rigging on a square rigger is designed around keeping the rig standing up as you change the forces with all the different sail configurations. Ultimate sail shape from rig adjustments is low on the priority list. Cheers Warren
Hi, I like your explanations. But, the draft of the sail, just like with a wing, is not the main cause creating the lift. It is to accommodate a laminar flow along the sail/wing surface. The main lift is caused by the angle of attack of the surface of the plane towards the airflow (or whatever medium, like water). Proof? You can sail with a rigid door as "sail". You will just not be as efficient, because the airflow will stall at a smaller angle of attack than with a cambered foil. Anyway, you can look this up and adjust your lecture accordingly 😉
I don't mean to troll - you are obviously intelligent and familiar with the principals of lift. However modern engineers have debunked the idea that camber or draft is merely for laminar flow purposes (an idea that even aircraft people have perpetuated over the years). It (the Bernoulli effect) is now known to account for about 75% of the lift in an air foil. The Newtonian component of lift accounts for only 25%. At slower speeds (sailing speeds compared to aircraft which is my background) the draft of a sail is much more vital than it is in an aircraft wing. Your reference to the old saw that even a bard door can be made to fly with enough power is true - but you neglect to realize that even a barn door creates a Bernoulli effect. I can refer you to an article that discusses this in depth: www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/1998/november/flight-training-magazine/bernoulli-or-newton . To sum it up I don't believe the presenter of this tutorial needs to modify his explanation at all - he is right on the money.
@@liamstone3437 thanks Liam. Just like Don Byers I was convinced by older articles on kites and barn doors and carried that around for all those years. Only that made most sense to me while sailing too, because conventional sails only have a single foil.
Yawls and ketches? What about schooner rigs? ;-) Also.. many thanks for starting this series on rigs and sails.. the more I learn about the various Bermudan rigs, the more I appreciate junk rigs! Please consider covering junks as well.. including the more modern cambered rigs.
I would have thought the extra material in the centre of the sail was to partially correct for the horizontal movement of the central portion of the leech for a given wind condition? I'm looking forward to your next video on sails.
@TheCopaMundial I think you may have misinterpreted my comment. I am not questioning the purpose and effectiveness of a curved airfoil, but rather how the optimal curved shape is achieved at all elevations. For example, there is no difficulty in curving a flat sheet of paper to any desired airfoil shape. Attaining this shape with the trailing edge curved eliminates the possibility of having the optimal shape everywhere.
My new (to me) boat is a ketch, but it has a solent stay setup.I know very little about the solent, just what I have read, but I like the idea. I am planning to build a storm sail with dyneema sewn into the luff to attach to the solent, but I would like to know more about how to use it (the PO didn't use it).
Herb you did not address the mainsail tension replacing the back stay or boats without back stays. Many racing keel boats and dinghies are like this. Then when you add a modern large roach full battens mainsail a back stay may not be practical and nobody wants running back stays so the mainsail becomes more important. ( ok beyond scope of a YT video). I understand cruising sailboat don't need to get the ultimate performance but having the ability to sail up wind reasonably efficiently or claw off a lee shore is important to life and cruising bliss. Most folks are not out there to be sailing around endlessly but to get to interesting and exotic places so they can fix their boat for the next trip!😜( and sleep)! Cheers Warren
@warp21drive That's me. I have a fractional rigged trimaran with leeboards and no backstay built for skinny waters and speed. The mast can rake between upright and back to move the CoE. The downhaul determines any bend in the mast.
Did not have time to watch the entire vid today. You might have spoken to my question. Personally, I have a good understanding of the angles, size, length aspects of determining tension no matter the object we are working on. However, I'm still young in my sailing knowledge. Is there any reason why the Fractional rig can't be used on a cutter to help fight the equal tension and head stay sag issue with heading to wind? I am guessing maybe? sail plan space would be one reason not to run a Fractional rig on a cutter smaller staysail space. is this done? if not are there other reasons? NVM I just watch the end and you said a little on my ?
I think this is a regional name for the masthead unit. In the states, it’s called a truck, but I have also heard it called a crane. Different names for the same thing 😁
You may have won this one. Here in the south the part is referred to as the masthead crane. But it seems the crane is a better descriptor of the overall component's function too include the boom, while truck is given as a nautical term for the specific part of the crane in general. Who knew? When you said truck, my inclination was to understand it as a part that moved in relation to the masthead, i.e., something pulled along the length of something else, like a mast.
@@RiggingDoctor Hm ... it totally depends for what the boat is used. If you want racing then you don't care that you could drop the mast (by hazard). If you are cruising then the "other" is much safer (both can be trimmed to perfection).
![WHY Two Headsails? [Cutter vs Slutter vs Solent] | Sailing Wisdom](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hQf_dmMduV4/mqdefault.jpg)
I like your videos! People criticize that you don't have shrouds & whatnot because they forgot that they came here because that, like me, they know nothing.
Thanks :)
Thanks, I know 3parts of nothing when it comes to this. You’re explications is easy to follow.
I tension my backstay not only to reduce power in the main, but also to reduce drag. When beating upwind, there is an equilibrium to find between drag and power.
Thanks, I have owned my own 5/6 sloop rigged boat for 6 years now and this is the first time I get what to to with the back stay.
I appreciate your explanation and moving the mast and straining the back stay. You give new meaning to A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words. Your demo is much better than even a picture. Fantastic
A Backstay tensioner on a masthead sloop accomplishes one positive thing. It can take some of the sag out of the head stay when desired. It also however does a lot of bad things as well. It puts a lot of extra load on forestay, backstay, headsail luff, halyard, and fore and aft chain plates. Also cool for a racing boat, but not so much on a long distance cruising boat. Excess pre-load is something to avoid when possible.
Indeed. We have our headstay tension set with the backstay half set. This lets me out a little extra tension if the air got colder, and ease it completely when we are anchored or going downwind.
Thanks for keeping it simple. This is a very informative video. Keep them coming buddy!
Thank you for an excellent and clear explanation. The model is a great idea too. I really appreciate your time on this and have subscribed.
Glad to hear we could be helpful!’
Balance- Top to Bottom, mast to keel, and front to back with the mast being center point. Learning to balance the sails in concert with using the standard rigging to mainly keep the mast vertical. Lots to think about. Thank you.
Thankyou for a great video.
Another reason for fractional riggs is the aspect between the main and the headsail.
Most older boats (before the sailboat boom 50 years agoo) in my part of the world (scandinavia) have fractional riggs. More due to the ability to sheet the headsail with no or small winches. Boats like the old Swedish folkboat had 3/4 rigg (with a diamond to handle the fore stay tension) and many was built without winches due to cost.
Thanks!
Putting outriggers on my canoe at this moment.
Had been at a loss as what to consider in sail adaptation.
You've helped an Old Dog "70" with a dream and maybe even pass the sailing bug on to grandkids.
👍
Your tutorials are excellent, thankyou for sharing them.
You're very welcome!
I don't own a boat, just dream of owning one. In the meantime I am soaking up as much information because I find sailboats to be intriguing. Your "stick and string" videos are very informative. I have watched other people explain these very same topics, and I come away with one question. "What!?" Thank you for explaining it so clearly.
Thanks! My goal is to make these topics easier to understand because sometimes I feel like the ones explaining it don’t fully understand it and therefore make it too complicated for you to come up with a question 🤪
Glad they are helpful to you; Sailing is a great dream to make reality ⛵️
that was great! Im glad I found you!
Thanks, I’m glad you did too! ☺️
There's another advantage to a fractional rig, epically a 3/4 one. My boat had one without a bendy mast. I quickly learned that my first reef was to simply roll the jib up. The boat sailed well without it. This made tacking in blustery winds so much easier, in a boat that had a bad habit of getting caught in stays.
If there was enough wind, the jib stayed in the sail bag.
The main advantage is simply more leverage from the backstay to make the headstay tighter for going upwind.
If the mast wasn’t bendy, then the whole thing would come back maybe less than an inch and that would make the headstay tighter as well.
That’s pretty sweet that you could sail so well without the headsail. Only having one sail to work is always easier than dealing with two sails!
Great video Herbie! Very well explained, thanks!
Great video. It could be improved by either using black threads for the shrouds or shoot before a darker back ground as it is hard to see the shroulds.
Great stuff Herby.
I know this is an old video but I'm thinking of adding a staysail to my fractionally rigged Najad 360 and not sure wether a slutter rig is even advisable. Being a cruising boat with a frac rig and a 145% genoa, it needs something for heavier air.
thanks dude!
I like the plate and two by four boat. You went to a lot of work just to get an example boat rigged up it looks like!!!
Especially on a Cutter, with inner forestay and permanent or running backstays, it is almost impossible the induce any bend in the mast by tensioning the backstay.
Yeah, those masts are so well supported, they won’t budge!
Awesome video. Keep them coming.
Heavy old boats are cheap. 😂😂😁 Love it.
👍
You are teaching some important sailing concepts for free... you should post a Venmo so folks can send you a “tip.” You are offering more than the sailing schools I have seen. Thank you!
This is why we have Patreon, they get early access to all these kinds of videos 😉 I just feel that this kind of knowledge helps people and shouldn’t be trapped behind a paywall 😎
thanks
Very well done, thanks
Super informative. THANKS! YOU ROCK!! PEACE OUT! Ü
That was really soon. And very interesting. Thanks
Life on an island , you beat me by 9 minutes
@@CaptMarkSVAlcina This guy is setting a standard that is hard for us to follow. I asked if he could make a video about this topic yesterday (Norway time) , I got a answer back "soon" he wasn't joking.
Life on an island , that is why he called himself the Rigging Doctor because he delivers just like a Doctor delivery baby’s, when ask he does.
And by the way I thought you lifted in New Zealand, now I see you life in Norway.
@@CaptMarkSVAlcina Norwegian born and raised. I don't know if that is a good thing or not but that's what I've got so I guess I'll say it with pride and make the most of it!
So where in the world do you feel at home?
😉
Brilliant
Great instructional approach! I have a question though, where can I find out what capacity my 4/1 mainsheet rig specifications are? No luck on the web as yet but as it was missing when I acquired my boat it’s been tough it’s a 1978 20’ O’Day with a fractional rig.
That might be really hard to find. I would suggest copying a similar setup from a different but similar sized boat. You want to base your comparison on the mainsail area and if the mainsheet is in the middle or the end of the boom.
Find one that’s similar and replicate it on your boat.
The real reason a fractional rig doesn't belong on a long distance cruiser is all the mast movement/pumping the boat does sailing in waves. Cruising sailboats need to be made to last, and all the movement in a fractional rig is a recipe for expensive important things breaking eventually. That's why you don't see them on well designed ocean boats. Draught is removed, or moved fore or aft, to depower, or redirect the coefficient of lift produced by the sail.
That’s a great point about how they wear out faster!
Great presentation.
Do you know if fractional rig mainsail and masthead mainsails have different cut? Trying to see if J/105 mainsail can be used on J/35. My concern is that tip of the mast on j/105 can be bent aft easily. Is it reflected in the mainsail shape/cut for J/105?
Very good.
I can see how pulling the luff forward will flatten the sail reducing drag and lift. How does this compare to using the sheet traveler and vang to increase twist dumping air out of the top third of the leach? When should I choose either adjustment. It seems to me they are opposite trim to achieve the same benefit.
Great job
Great video, I like your sidekick :-)
What would be amazing is if you talked about tall ships as I used to work on one as first officer and training officer and sailing master .
Capt Chef Mark SV Alcina that will be come really complicated!Also the most of the rigging on a square rigger is designed around keeping the rig standing up as you change the forces with all the different sail configurations. Ultimate sail shape from rig adjustments is low on the priority list. Cheers Warren
Is there a preerence from a safety perspective?
Hi, I like your explanations. But, the draft of the sail, just like with a wing, is not the main cause creating the lift. It is to accommodate a laminar flow along the sail/wing surface. The main lift is caused by the angle of attack of the surface of the plane towards the airflow (or whatever medium, like water). Proof? You can sail with a rigid door as "sail". You will just not be as efficient, because the airflow will stall at a smaller angle of attack than with a cambered foil.
Anyway, you can look this up and adjust your lecture accordingly 😉
I don't mean to troll - you are obviously intelligent and familiar with the principals of lift. However modern engineers have debunked the idea that camber or draft is merely for laminar flow purposes (an idea that even aircraft people have perpetuated over the years). It (the Bernoulli effect) is now known to account for about 75% of the lift in an air foil. The Newtonian component of lift accounts for only 25%. At slower speeds (sailing speeds compared to aircraft which is my background) the draft of a sail is much more vital than it is in an aircraft wing. Your reference to the old saw that even a bard door can be made to fly with enough power is true - but you neglect to realize that even a barn door creates a Bernoulli effect. I can refer you to an article that discusses this in depth: www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/1998/november/flight-training-magazine/bernoulli-or-newton .
To sum it up I don't believe the presenter of this tutorial needs to modify his explanation at all - he is right on the money.
@@liamstone3437 thanks Liam. Just like Don Byers I was convinced by older articles on kites and barn doors and carried that around for all those years. Only that made most sense to me while sailing too, because conventional sails only have a single foil.
Instant slooooo......p Even the bird was embarrassed by that one.
Yawls and ketches? What about schooner rigs? ;-)
Also.. many thanks for starting this series on rigs and sails.. the more I learn about the various Bermudan rigs, the more I appreciate junk rigs! Please consider covering junks as well.. including the more modern cambered rigs.
Will do! When I cover sails, I’ll do one on junks (I’ll just have to take off all the standing rigging)
@@RiggingDoctor - "I’ll just have to take off all the standing rigging" - At least that will simplify things!
I would have thought the extra material in the centre of the sail was to partially correct for the horizontal movement of the central portion of the leech for a given wind condition? I'm looking forward to your next video on sails.
@TheCopaMundial I think you may have misinterpreted my comment. I am not questioning the purpose and effectiveness of a curved airfoil, but rather how the optimal curved shape is achieved at all elevations. For example, there is no difficulty in curving a flat sheet of paper to any desired airfoil shape. Attaining this shape with the trailing edge curved eliminates the possibility of having the optimal shape everywhere.
This is deep shit man😳
🤓
My new (to me) boat is a ketch, but it has a solent stay setup.I know very little about the solent, just what I have read, but I like the idea. I am planning to build a storm sail with dyneema sewn into the luff to attach to the solent, but I would like to know more about how to use it (the PO didn't use it).
We cover solent rigs in an upcoming video (it’s filmed, I just need to finish editing it)
Getting into more details now. My head hurts. Actually were talking racing vs cruising. How come my sails don't have reverse?
It’s the keels fault!!
land lovers as far as the eye can sea ;)
😉
Oh man... I just pulled my laptop apart because of some clicking noise... and it turns out was this video!
That was Sammy clicking her beak 🤣
Have you ever heard of anyone adding a headstay and bowsprit to a fractional sloop?
Not to a fractional sloop, but that is the plan for the Alberg 30!
What do you think about unstayed / Freedom rigs
I think they are awesome but the entire boat needs to be designed and built for that purpose. The tapering mast to allow proper bending is genius!
Herb you did not address the mainsail tension replacing the back stay or boats without back stays. Many racing keel boats and dinghies are like this. Then when you add a modern large roach full battens mainsail a back stay may not be practical and nobody wants running back stays so the mainsail becomes more important. ( ok beyond scope of a YT video).
I understand cruising sailboat don't need to get the ultimate performance but having the ability to sail up wind reasonably efficiently or claw off a lee shore is important to life and cruising bliss. Most folks are not out there to be sailing around endlessly but to get to interesting and exotic places so they can fix their boat for the next trip!😜( and sleep)!
Cheers Warren
Sounds like a interesting topic too.
When I make the sails, I will cover this topic! ;)
It sure does, but I won’t have it as quickly answered as I did this video
I do cover this a little in the next video though 😁
@warp21drive That's me. I have a fractional rigged trimaran with leeboards and no backstay built for skinny waters and speed. The mast can rake between upright and back to move the CoE. The downhaul determines any bend in the mast.
Did not have time to watch the entire vid today. You might have spoken to my question. Personally, I have a good understanding of the angles, size, length aspects of determining tension no matter the object we are working on. However, I'm still young in my sailing knowledge. Is there any reason why the Fractional rig can't be used on a cutter to help fight the equal tension and head stay sag issue with heading to wind? I am guessing maybe? sail plan space would be one reason not to run a Fractional rig on a cutter smaller staysail space. is this done? if not are there other reasons? NVM I just watch the end and you said a little on my ?
Running Headstay?
Those are typically places on the ends of bow sprits so that no one has to climb out there to change the headsail.
Masthead crane... not a truck.
I think this is a regional name for the masthead unit. In the states, it’s called a truck, but I have also heard it called a crane.
Different names for the same thing 😁
You may have won this one. Here in the south the part is referred to as the masthead crane. But it seems the crane is a better descriptor of the overall component's function too include the boom, while truck is given as a nautical term for the specific part of the crane in general. Who knew? When you said truck, my inclination was to understand it as a part that moved in relation to the masthead, i.e., something pulled along the length of something else, like a mast.
Crap ... there are in both cases ways to bend the mast.
And one is better than the other for the purpose.
@@RiggingDoctor Hm ... it totally depends for what the boat is used. If you want racing then you don't care that you could drop the mast (by hazard). If you are cruising then the "other" is much safer (both can be trimmed to perfection).
Get a background that contrasts with your little model. As is, it is about useless.
Improvements for future episodes!
Get a junk rigged boat and youll need none of this crap
True, but it is hard to beat a fractional rig sloop going upwind. For people who want to race around the buoys, this would be their ideal rig.