Give me an amp that doesn't need a conditioner, also in other tests I've seen some power conditioners can reduce the amplifier output. In my own experience in blind tests I've never been able to hear the difference, might just be me but at the cost of these units I'd rather just go for an amp that is clean regardless.
FINALLY someone tests at the output of the audio component, since that's what actually matters! One big argument against power conditioners is that good audio components already have good power supplies and are already extremely efficient at taking AC and converting it into clean DC. Nevertheless, I've found power conditioners have lowered the noise floor in my source components. However, a common argument against power conditioners is that they restrict the dynamics and low-end punch of amplifiers, which is something I've experienced myself. I've yet to find a power conditioner that works well with my 300 watt class A/B amplifier, which can pull a peak 1900 watts out of the wall on transient peaks. I wonder if there's a way for you to test this. As it seems to be the key knock against power conditioners, even amongst a sizeable % of "believers"
@@budzlightyear2212excuse my ignorance, but if a wall outlet only puts out only 120v so a inexpensive power conditioner like a furman power conditioner or a cheap HOSPITAL GRADE ISOLATION TRANSFORMER should do the trick
@@carlosr.2027 Some say these things don't help and even hurt performance.Even a cheapo power strip in between the outlet and your equipment will help protect from surge.
The test actually shows how immune the amp to the power source noise, so the conclusion of the effectiveness/value of these power filters really depend on the amp you use. What we'd like to see is how clean the power output of these filters are comparing to grid power, and that's Independent to what power amp would be used.
Yes @@Simplyveej , it is a conclusion that it very well supported by scientific findings. While all of it has to do with the concept of cognitive dissonance, you may be more satisfied after looking into „effort justification“ or the „sunk cost fallacy“ directly. And by the way, somebody eyeballing fft‘s and stating that there is a „very big effect“ is not very scientific either. A double blind listening test of a real signal (and not just some random and changing noise floor without the load of any speakers) would go further in that direction.
Before I started using a power conditioners in my PC room , I would lose a monitor every 2 years or so and it was that way for a way over a decade. Since i installed them 6 years ago I haven't lost a monitor since. I don't think its a coincidence, my pc room is basically a computer lab many monitors many machines spanning the ages, most of the monitors would fail from PSU issues and stop working until the psu issue was fixed assuming it was worth the hassle of taking it apart to do so (crts much so). This has made me a strongly for these things smoothing out the power delivery.
Same here 😊. I have a balanced toroidal isolation transformer by generic Chinese brand. It wasn't too expensive. I though doubt how much of it is actually balanced as there is no circuits.
Love what you and the other guys at Alpha Audio are doing. You’re hopefully on your way to at least somewhat uniting the more subjective and objective audiophile camps.
How would power conditioning compare to having a separate dedicated line fitted by an electrician, so that audio equipment is not sharing a circuit with refrigerators, microwaves, lamps, etc? That might be worth testing. Thanks.
Thanks a lot for your efforts!! Well done, love that you are measuring on the analogue-out and not just on the power outlet side, much more valuable for me from a listener-prospective! Didn't like Amir's (ASR) review some time ago, concerning power conditioners (*doesnt do anything..*, yes, in his measuring power-only use-case)
Excellent work yet again :) Depends on how polluted your mains is to start with. I have had Isol-8, PS Audio and latterly Puritan conditioners and all make small but audible differences powering source components especially streamers and DACs. Main plus point to all is smoothing out transient spikes that occur in the mains whilst adding additional protection for expensive equipment. Overall it also comes down to your mains supply and how sensitive each individual component is to noise.
Which Isol 8 do you have? Real HiFi Help on UA-cam recommends the minisub Axis. I live in Toronto and can't find a used unit so found the distributor who recommended a Substation which is around twice as expensive. They did a comparison on this channel that included a Isol 8 and I think it did less damage to the music than the other units. It had the most subtle effect. The others made the sound either too thick or too rich or made it sound like the music had been sped up. Incredible that these effects happen at all. I use Audio Note UK electronics and real HiFi Help is a Audio Note fanatic so his opinion is likely to be more relevant to me since that's what he has done most of his comparisons with. I bought some ungodly expensive Critical Mass Systems Center Stage 0.8 M2 footers for a couple of my components and they made such a big difference that it makes no sense. They need to be tweaked because they caused the sound to become too sterile and fake sounding. But when you get it right it's incredible. It makes zero sense that these can make such a difference. I always thought it was electrical power quality that made my system sound bad most of the time. With these footers it sound great even when it's hot outside and everyone has their air conditioners running. I'm looking at getting Arya Audio Revopods to compare. They're supposed to be in the same ball park of sound improvement and are cheaper and have nicer features like height adjustment. They also make cheaper ones that have less features but most of the benefit if you want footers for small cheap components like reclockers or Dc power supplies or routers etc. I'm even considering buying Seismion active vibration platforms. They're German though and I'm leery of winding up with $8000 door stoppers like most everything Germany makes. Too complicated. Can't be repaired. The parts are no longer made after 6 months to 2 years. Now with the war Germany is deindustrializing and so things will get work quickly. I work in heavy industry and the fools in management have bought all sorts of German machinery. Zero service manuals. Zero information. Parts no longer made. They are too complicated and so poorly designed that they start falling apart within weeks of going into operation. Even if the parts are available they are so expensive that we can buy them. Germany is socialist. Everything is paid for by the federal government. It's a racket.
@@bunsw2070 they were the first conditioners i bought back in mid 2000's, MiniSub and also had a Vision. Changed these some time to a PS Audio Quintessence and now Puritan 156, impressed with Puritan have to say, didnt realise how the others (admittedly old tech) were somehow supressing dynamics. As for isolation thats another ball game altogether, where do you stop.......!
Curious! Did you try plugging your amp into the Puritan? How did that go? I know the Puritan power conditioner has a positive impact on source components, but I've been wondering if it has positive/negative effects on high current amps (like my 300W class AB amp).
lol just replied to a reply on my post and upped the Puritan 156! At least it shows i wasnt making it up. I am saving to get another. Time to buy shares in Puritan....
Curious! Did you try plugging your amp into the Puritan? How did that go? I know the Puritan power conditioner has a positive impact on source components, but I've been wondering if it has positive/negative effects on high current amps (like my 300W class AB amp).
Nice, can you get your hands on a Puritan Audio PSM156? As an Audiophile I have 2 different types of conditioners. 2 are from Monster lol and they are in tge basement in storage, the other are Richard Gray substation (isolation transformer) and a RGPC1200 that is a parallel choke. Is there a way I can test these with software and simple setup?
What about cheaper furman power conditioners? I have a furman AC-210A. Bought it, hoping it would reduce noise for my audio gear, because I have problematic electricity at home. My fridge causes a high pitched whine in my audio gear. (I turn off my fridge when I record stuff). However, the furman didn't solve the problem at all.
Wouldn't using battery power be cheaper considering the cost? Also, I've never heard of high-end recording studios using power conditioners, which would seem the obvious place to benefit everyone (as the original audio would theoretically be improved). They could probably use it to increase custom (even if they didn't actually make any noticeable difference).
Yes, such facilities address power. Everything from generic dry-type grid isolation, to a Torus panelboard iso rig, to Equi-tech, Torus, or Furman point of use gear, etc. Ground One (Art Kelm) operates in custom studio power. - You're modulating wall power and capturing it as music. - You're modulating wall power and reproducing that music. It's vital that it's well sorted.
Massively dependent on your electric supply quality. Best to view these as components that help your expensive audio equipment function optimally by reducing the amount of noise transmitted to them. Full regen components would be the ultimate so long as a) you have the bank balance and b) your floor and back can cope with the weight
How do we eliminate mains hum? I want it gone. At high volume levels in quiet music passages I can even hear the AC frequency change by the change in hum sometimes. Ten houses 10 hums. Doesn't matter what amp, new, old they all hum in all houses all the time when the volume control is around the 11 o'clock position.
lovin the alpha lab content 🤘 so i was thinking you always publish the data of the live streams why not share with us that data, with your thoughts with some sound clips for some more alpha lab content and maybe we can all figure out how the objective data influenced our subjective impressions you already have the data, recorded sound clips, recorded impressions from the alpha team. there are channels that do sound clip comparrisons, some just data, some just subjective impressions but cant think of 1 that does it all.
I'd like to know if a simple On-line UPS would do the same thing. They basically isolate and double convert from AC -> DC (to charger the battery) -> AC with clean power. Basic 1000VA ones are $1000 which is 1/2 the price of what you were testing here.
A good follow up to this video would be how does all this highly expensive power conditioner compare to a more economical affordable power conditioners like a furman power conditioner and do a face off test and see if it’s worth forking over thousands $$$ on power conditioner vs $50-$200
The higher ampage on my wall socket (13A) is higher than isotek EVO 3 power bar (10A), and I was just wondering if this was the likely the cause for the throttling of my power amps. Love your videos, btw. Being a pot smoker, there are not many videos that can hold my attention like yours 🙃
Very interesting indeed!! I've tried allsorts of power conditioners including the Isotek super Titan with no success, it's as if all power filters seem to kill the sound of my Audio Research pre amp and my Audio note tube dac. If anything I found that an old Isotek minisub g2 was the best, that brought everything back to life, I then added a Synergistic Research purple to the Minisub G2 and the heavens opened up. Absolute magic.
Hi, great work here! I was wondering, would it be possible to do a test of power conditioner vs UPS? I read some said UPS is better all around. Thank you :)
Soo what am i needing to buy for my 1200W gaming PC? I/we don't know what is considered "good" or "bad". What's the recommended tolerance for smooth power conditioning?
@@fcfdroid if you want to just eliminate noise - I guess that's the point - any decent filter will work. High end power conditioners don't impact speed, imaging, etc. But that is not important for a PC.
@@TheAlphaAudio transients are definitely a thing with gpu and CPU performance. Now how evenly they get their power may or may not effect their power 🤔
@@fcfdroid a well build PSU from a good brand - seasonic, bequiet, etc - will deliver all the power the cpu or gpu needs. I have build loads of pc's. Also gaming pc's for VR racing. Never had power issues with a good PSU. They are very noisy to the grid though. So if you have a high end hifi system next to the pc, you want a good power conditioner.
Thank you for doing and sharing rhese measurements. Are these meaurements continuous or taken at one point of time? Wanting to know if the differences are within standard deviations of the power
After adding a Puritan PSM156 in combination with a Yeti 1000 to my headphone audio chain, I moved the displaced AudioQuest Niagara 1200 to my LG OLED TV and it made a huge improvement to the picture quality. My wife and I were shocked, in fact.
Cool test. I really like those videos so much. One request regarding power condtioners vs power regenerators: Can you please also make a test of those? PS Audio always claims that impedence and the correct sine wave would be more crucial as filtering just noise like conditioners do
@@TheAlphaAudio I have a online ups with galvanic isolation transformer at home. PS Audio regenerator has similar topology like online ups, without batteries. So, I went with online ups.
Inference of LED lights is their switch mode power supplies. It is indirect, they put noise on your home grid. So if the power conditioner filters or suppresses these noises in that frequency spectrum, it counteracts the influence. Same is true for power inverters of solar panels and home charging solutions for electric cars, which often leak a lot of DC offset onto your home grid.
@@jmtennapel Thanks. My problem and EU standard with LEDs, I have more then 40-50 low light LEDs in our house. No charger for car or sun panels jet, so we are filled with jitter and interference…. Same as in modern life. Do I need to go off grid and power my gear with batteries?😀 No joke, but we need to slow down huge bit. Jaap talked about LED in a previous video and it’s impact. Best way is to build a separate electric power system to the music system in the house. Shielded cables and separate fuse box with filters. Tin foile hats?.
@@rikardekvall3433 Just buy a good power conditioner for your audio set and problem solved :-) Not everything works with everything, so it is a process of trying at home.
Good to see more objective tests looking for differences in output of gear, rather than what goes on inside. Alas, in this class of testing, there are pitfalls. Unlike a real speaker, your Prism Sound analyzer is powered and hence can create a ground loop that wouldn't be there otherwise. You must work to identify this aspect as otherwise, isolation transformers like you tested will impact the measurements. But would not do so in real life. With Audio precision, I have control of whether the floating inputs are grounded or not. Ditto for input. I go through extensive testing to rule out ground loops. You also said that transformer made a big difference. It didn't once you consider that out threshold of hearing in low frequencies is very high and hence the reason you wouldn't hear that hum out of the Byrston amp without said power conditioner. In other words, you are trying to solve an inaudible problem even if your testing was correct.
@@davidcross890 Yeah I agree! It was mindblowing once I got that unit. I have never been pleased when connecting amps to conditioners. It has worked well with sources and stuff, but not with amps IMO. Until I met the Powergrip.. I have had so many different conditioners. Second best on my list is the PS Audio regenerators.
sorry I changed my comment. Does it mean it is realistic a PC works better at night, most people say it is bs. Would a battery+DC PC PSU be the best possible setup? I tried a power station AC offgrid but it was even worse.
@@patrickh9679 a pc with switch mode doesn't work better at night. If you want to use a pc for Audio you need serious modifications. Clean power supply, dedicated usb ports and ethernet.
Bedankt voor deze video! Vraag: heeft zoiets zin als je set op een eigen groep zit, waar verder niets op zit? Gebruik een Furutech stopcontact en vanaf daar is alles Supra SPC. Denk eraan om de kabel vanaf de groep ook SPC te maken, maar zie nogal tegen die klus op. En als ik alsnog beter een conditioner kan aanschaffen heeft het nog minder zin (lijkt me).
Does anybody understand why on the Yeti the 50Hz was lower? After all that is what carries the power... Note that Aquarius and Titan did not suppress any of the 50Hz (which is what I would expect...)
@@TheAlphaAudio At 4:15 you say "the 50Hz is lower", and I don't quite understand that, since rejection of 50Hz from the analog out is a property of the amp itself. (I would do a re-measurement there 😉) Anyway, you make a good point with the video.
Just because we can get something to show up on a scope does not mean we can hear what it is doing with our ears. How much do these conditioners cost? If you are paying for something that you can't hear any difference from with your ears, then what are you actually getting for your money? Now, if all you want to do is just be able to say, "This conditioner looks better when I run it through a scope" then you certainly got your money's worth. Keep something in mind here, the WORST part of ANY home audio system is always going to be the human ears that are listening to it.
@@TheAlphaAudio If I'm going to spend several thousand dollars on a premium power conditioner as a consumer, you damn well better believe that I'm going to tell EVERYONE that will listen that I can hear a difference when it is in use - whether I actually can or not. For those prices, I'm going to tell MYSELF that I can hear a difference, if for no other reason than to try and justify to myself all the money I just spent on the device. (Welcome to the world of high-end audio!)
@@paulk9534 I do not always know all types and prices by heart. I don't always care when I test stuff. When we write the reviews we look it up of course. But in video's like these it is not really important because it is about the tech and the measurements... Not the products.
Hello, I do not agree with your conclusions. It is evident that it can be measured, no one doubts it. But it is also evident that in listening situations no difference is perceived between the conditioning equipment. A real test that is useful for the buyer is blind listening or measuring the acoustic response. If the double-blind test does not produce conclusive results, then perhaps the product is fake.
@@TheAlphaAudioMost would not interest most people but I just would like to do many tests like your doing, at different time of the day or different weather/humidity etc etc etc to see if there is any difference in sound and repeat them few times with the equipment you have. Would also like to test the sound of different connections have like usb/Toslink/coaxial with same brand/length cables vs different brands/lengths. And so many more, I'm not sharing anymore secrets 😅
You are not using balanced test measurement probes…correct? You need to show every detail of your test methodology if anything you produce is to be believed.
... and what about a good serious Schaffner selected properly? what is we use an isolation transformer to drive a Schaffner (for signal source of course)? ... probably none of the product mentioned are b.s., let say they are all serious products, but imho the point could be another one... how much are they overpriced? (compared with iso trafo + schaffner)
well done, hero brother 👍 try put the extra light (diff. lux / λ) to the phono cable or vaccum tube on next trials！ Sorry, my tone arm cable pickup all kinds of noises all the way 😫
@@TheAlphaAudio My audio KT88 tubes act as a Photomultiplier, and my old VPI phono tonearm with exposed signal cable are so sensitive to pickup the noise from a led light strip. I hope that you can measuring the same way (FFT) on the vintage gears or devices, such as vaccum tubes. I'm sorry for my poor english and Thank again, one of my PRO. KOL 💯 Any active or passive solutions or analytical demo to get better S/N are all welcome 😘
If you live in rural Africa and you have a poorly designed audio system, you might need a power conditioner. But better is to buy a well designed audio system. There is a good chance that if the power supply of your amp is well designed for noise rejection the amplifier itself is also well designed for high audio fidelity.
I think everyone is missing this logic. If you are spending $6k on a power amp and it needs an outboard power conditioner to keep the noise floor down then you got ripped off. If you spent $59 on an Amazon special power amp then adding a $1k power conditioner seems like a misuse of funds. ;p
@@TheAlphaAudio How? The transformer in an amplifier itself galvanicly isolates the mains from the speaker outputs. Other than eliminating DC offset on AC, there can be no effect as the 50Hz wave carries all the power.
@@TheAlphaAudio Shure. But aren't you wondering why? May reversing polarity on the AC plug is to blame, as thing can have EMI be in or out of phase in the various instruments. Or a shielding issue due to protective earth violations. These are measurable, but setup artifacts.
@@TheAlphaAudio You don't need to compare fuses. The test you want to do is between a standard fuse and a copper slug. If there is no difference there, then any audiophile fuse will offer no benefit. Just do the same test you are doing here, should take 10 minutes.
I don't think its a good idea to recondition AC to AC in such application ( audio equipment ) all audio devices use DC. why not just have a quality linear AC to DC, and then feed that clean DC to the amplifier, dac, etc. ( yes those devices will need a separate DC input ) but that's far better that this AC reconditioning business.. its an overkill
And still it does... also: how is a manufacturer going to implement a solution like the YETI in a device and still: 1. keep it small 2. keep the price down ... ...
@@aminbjt5843 oversimplification . Ground loops, common mode noise, all stuff that influences not a single component, but a set. And we are not talking about pricing yet, because designing components to be immune to all kinds of noise is costly and won’t keep most components financially acceptable to a lot of consumers. It’s not a conspiracy, you know…..
I think we in europe do not need that, or almost do not need. Cause 240v. Maybe i am wrong, and is another factor, but is what i experience and what i see. We have that problems, like everyone, just you do not notice them like people in US for example. Maybe we have cleaner energy coming from outside, or maybe less developed areas take advantage cause less people.
Trust your own ears. Could be the difference between hum/noise at 60Hz VS 50Hz or maybe the power is just very clean in your region or maybe you are benefiting from the adoption of DAB radio VS all the analog radio still being broadcast here. If it ain't broke then don't fix it.
We had a radio station long time ago in my town, i remember my hot speaker picking radio signal from that even when was off. Nowadays we do not have radio station. The signal i have in my house is clean, i have low to no noise, only the wind of a dialed valve amp, but i know people in my area that live near a hight tension eletric towers and they suffer a lot from noise. But in general that eletric towers are not in the middle of the towns so in my experience even a cafe or club have a clean energy suply coming from the street.
That looks like an actual, proper power conditioner. Looks to weigh about 20 kilos and is about 4 times the size of those Furman rack units. Yes, this is a real and proper conditioner, but most things sold as "power conditioners" are nothing but glorified extension leads with a fuse. Case in point; ua-cam.com/video/iNC3TSTT3ig/v-deo.html
Nice! However, you really should do the same test with a powerful Class D amp. As these use a SMPS their power intake is pretty similar to output. Many mains conditioners use reactive components such as capacitors, coils which can have an effect of "throttling" the conditioner's output with short dynamics peaks. Result: the amp loses much of its agility, loses speed (always difficult to put sound to words), transients get smeared, dynamics get lost. The better the amp is, the more noticeable. Before you measure, listen to a decent system with Class D amp without conditioner, then add it to the system and you'll know what I mean. This is of course a sweeping statement. Don't believe me, try several conditioners and amp combos and you'll hear soon what I mean...
What I measured is pure noise reduction. This is half the story. You should ALWAYS listen to the combination in order to dertimine the overall effect. Not all amps like power conditioners. My Pass XP-12 doesn't like it for example. The X150.8 doens't like all conditiners as well. But if you found a matching one, the effect is great.
@@TheAlphaAudio Thanks for swift reply. the point I was trying to make is that the requirement of an SMPS from a wall outlet is very different to that of a linear supply for an amplifier. A linear supply has banks of reservoir caps so does not suffer if the conditioner is holding back as supply during strong dynamics in music are catered for by the caps. Not so with (most) SMPS where demand from the mains is just about as dynamic as the signal on speaker terminals (compare power input to speaker output with music playing on your scope!). That makes conditioners and Class D combos resulting in severe performance degradation.
And what about power cable in those devices? To me it looks like 3x0.75mm2 and current comes from walls where are usually 2.5mm2. What can be expected from devices that are actually bottleneck with reduced cable surface even "audiophiles" will plug their fancy cables into them??? The whole concept (conditioners, power cables) is one big nonsense!
Maybe you can borrow some audio grade power cables and swap them around in your home system. Maybe your ears will belie your beliefs. I suggest sensible priced cables as made by brands like Supra, not something overpriced.
@@jmtennapel When NASA starts to use "audio grade" power cables with magical features, then I will. In meantime I will stick to fact how amprifier components runs on DC current after it was transformed and filtered from AC. They are very good at it and don't care about how dirty power coming from walls is as long as it is coming from stabile power net like it is in developed world. With my comment I tried to point out absurdity how this test was done and conclusions made.
Dear @@jmtennapel , I'm not that kind of "internet warrior". I try to give arguments. So far haven't seen anything concrete that would change my mind. Again, I was refering to fact how those power conditioners were tested here and usually used with consumer grade power cables and at the same time "audiophiles" put fancy cables in it. Anyway, I wish you all the best!
@@TheAlphaAudio Too funny! You should publish. You'll win a Nobel. The AC signal is non-extant after the power supply...it's converted to DC. AC noise can't possibly exist within DC circuits.
@@Stikibits If you don't want to believe my measurements - actual lower distortion and noise at the speaker output of an amp - that's fine with me. I don't care. I don't sell any gear. I just review stuff and investigate stuff in my lab. have a lovely day.
"You seem to like these kind of tests". No we dont. We LOVE it :D
Hahaha...!
Give me an amp that doesn't need a conditioner, also in other tests I've seen some power conditioners can reduce the amplifier output. In my own experience in blind tests I've never been able to hear the difference, might just be me but at the cost of these units I'd rather just go for an amp that is clean regardless.
maybe, amplification, is the problem!
That's a pretty good result on the bryston. Can we hear the difference between -95 and-110 db below signal level. Nah its totally masked by the music.
Only esoterik ear hear the diference
Thank you! Best power conditioner test I have seen so far and I have watched just about every test on YT.
Thanks. That means a lot!
What is the real world difference though? Can you hear a difference in the sound quality?
FINALLY someone tests at the output of the audio component, since that's what actually matters! One big argument against power conditioners is that good audio components already have good power supplies and are already extremely efficient at taking AC and converting it into clean DC. Nevertheless, I've found power conditioners have lowered the noise floor in my source components. However, a common argument against power conditioners is that they restrict the dynamics and low-end punch of amplifiers, which is something I've experienced myself. I've yet to find a power conditioner that works well with my 300 watt class A/B amplifier, which can pull a peak 1900 watts out of the wall on transient peaks. I wonder if there's a way for you to test this. As it seems to be the key knock against power conditioners, even amongst a sizeable % of "believers"
Puritan PSM156 is famous for not reducing dynamics of amps, I have a 100W Marantz PM11S2 plugged into one, and the excellebt dynamics are unhindered.
it completely makes sense, its a small transformer vs your grid huge transformer
"High end" or not
A wall outlet should only put out 120volts.
@@budzlightyear2212excuse my ignorance, but if a wall outlet only puts out only 120v so a inexpensive power conditioner like a furman power conditioner or a cheap HOSPITAL GRADE ISOLATION TRANSFORMER should do the trick
@@carlosr.2027
Some say these things don't help and even hurt performance.Even a cheapo power strip in between the outlet and your equipment will help protect from surge.
This is more complicated than expected. Thanks for the video
Welcome
The test actually shows how immune the amp to the power source noise, so the conclusion of the effectiveness/value of these power filters really depend on the amp you use. What we'd like to see is how clean the power output of these filters are comparing to grid power, and that's Independent to what power amp would be used.
nice video, thank you
when you spend XXXX euro on something useless, you will find incredible excuses for it
Is that a scientific conclusion?
Yes @@Simplyveej , it is a conclusion that it very well supported by scientific findings. While all of it has to do with the concept of cognitive dissonance, you may be more satisfied after looking into „effort justification“ or the „sunk cost fallacy“ directly. And by the way, somebody eyeballing fft‘s and stating that there is a „very big effect“ is not very scientific either. A double blind listening test of a real signal (and not just some random and changing noise floor without the load of any speakers) would go further in that direction.
Yes it cleans up the noise floor but is this audible at all?
not unless that is the noise that comes to the audio line..
Before I started using a power conditioners in my PC room , I would lose a monitor every 2 years or so and it was that way for a way over a decade. Since i installed them 6 years ago I haven't lost a monitor since. I don't think its a coincidence, my pc room is basically a computer lab many monitors many machines spanning the ages, most of the monitors would fail from PSU issues and stop working until the psu issue was fixed assuming it was worth the hassle of taking it apart to do so (crts much so). This has made me a strongly for these things smoothing out the power delivery.
Great work as usual. I am using isolation transformer for my sources (streamer, ddc, dac, preamp). That makes the most difference in my set up.
Same here 😊. I have a balanced toroidal isolation transformer by generic Chinese brand. It wasn't too expensive. I though doubt how much of it is actually balanced as there is no circuits.
@@johnshaw359 I don't even have a voltmeter. Need to get one..
Emi filter
Love what you and the other guys at Alpha Audio are doing. You’re hopefully on your way to at least somewhat uniting the more subjective and objective audiophile camps.
It is our goal
How would power conditioning compare to having a separate dedicated line fitted by an electrician, so that audio equipment is not sharing a circuit with refrigerators, microwaves, lamps, etc? That might be worth testing. Thanks.
Thanks a lot for your efforts!! Well done, love that you are measuring on the analogue-out and not just on the power outlet side, much more valuable for me from a listener-prospective! Didn't like Amir's (ASR) review some time ago, concerning power conditioners (*doesnt do anything..*, yes, in his measuring power-only use-case)
Indeed... like I said... it is important to know where to look...
Maybe you should try testing the Puritan Audio Labs 156, it's widely regarded as the best mains conditioner in he business.
We can ask for it.
Excellent work yet again :) Depends on how polluted your mains is to start with. I have had Isol-8, PS Audio and latterly Puritan conditioners and all make small but audible differences powering source components especially streamers and DACs. Main plus point to all is smoothing out transient spikes that occur in the mains whilst adding additional protection for expensive equipment. Overall it also comes down to your mains supply and how sensitive each individual component is to noise.
True
Which Isol 8 do you have? Real HiFi Help on UA-cam recommends the minisub Axis. I live in Toronto and can't find a used unit so found the distributor who recommended a Substation which is around twice as expensive. They did a comparison on this channel that included a Isol 8 and I think it did less damage to the music than the other units. It had the most subtle effect. The others made the sound either too thick or too rich or made it sound like the music had been sped up. Incredible that these effects happen at all. I use Audio Note UK electronics and real HiFi Help is a Audio Note fanatic so his opinion is likely to be more relevant to me since that's what he has done most of his comparisons with.
I bought some ungodly expensive Critical Mass Systems Center Stage 0.8 M2 footers for a couple of my components and they made such a big difference that it makes no sense. They need to be tweaked because they caused the sound to become too sterile and fake sounding. But when you get it right it's incredible. It makes zero sense that these can make such a difference. I always thought it was electrical power quality that made my system sound bad most of the time. With these footers it sound great even when it's hot outside and everyone has their air conditioners running. I'm looking at getting Arya Audio Revopods to compare. They're supposed to be in the same ball park of sound improvement and are cheaper and have nicer features like height adjustment. They also make cheaper ones that have less features but most of the benefit if you want footers for small cheap components like reclockers or Dc power supplies or routers etc.
I'm even considering buying Seismion active vibration platforms. They're German though and I'm leery of winding up with $8000 door stoppers like most everything Germany makes. Too complicated. Can't be repaired. The parts are no longer made after 6 months to 2 years. Now with the war Germany is deindustrializing and so things will get work quickly. I work in heavy industry and the fools in management have bought all sorts of German machinery. Zero service manuals. Zero information. Parts no longer made. They are too complicated and so poorly designed that they start falling apart within weeks of going into operation. Even if the parts are available they are so expensive that we can buy them. Germany is socialist. Everything is paid for by the federal government. It's a racket.
@@bunsw2070 they were the first conditioners i bought back in mid 2000's, MiniSub and also had a Vision. Changed these some time to a PS Audio Quintessence and now Puritan 156, impressed with Puritan have to say, didnt realise how the others (admittedly old tech) were somehow supressing dynamics. As for isolation thats another ball game altogether, where do you stop.......!
Curious! Did you try plugging your amp into the Puritan? How did that go? I know the Puritan power conditioner has a positive impact on source components, but I've been wondering if it has positive/negative effects on high current amps (like my 300W class AB amp).
@@Vsread21 not been brave enough to try. I have a krell KAV3250 that is a fantastic heater in winter!
Aquarius does work in a certain audible frequency, which is in the description. I think around 10k and so, somewhere else
Thanks for the testing, although I'm a bit confused by your amp, standing on it's side? never seen any amp like that
Bedankt Jaap, weer van veel geleerd, ga zo door!!
Puritan 156 owner here. Awesome product. Drastically reduce the noise level through the speakers and much more benefits too.
lol just replied to a reply on my post and upped the Puritan 156! At least it shows i wasnt making it up. I am saving to get another. Time to buy shares in Puritan....
@@davidcross890that’s ok then, I only have a mid tier system
@@davidcross890 Your personality is spot on low tier.
@@davidcross890 There's help available for people with mental health issues.
Curious! Did you try plugging your amp into the Puritan? How did that go? I know the Puritan power conditioner has a positive impact on source components, but I've been wondering if it has positive/negative effects on high current amps (like my 300W class AB amp).
When looking at -90dB attenuation, you cannot hear that, so looking impressive on the test bench, any further attenuation will not make a difference.
@@bobisyouruncle1 your words, interpretation and conclusion. Please dont present them as facts.
Leuke en intressante video! Vraagje, dit is een test me transistorversterkers, maar wat is het effect bij een buizenverster?
Hoogstwaarschijnlijk hetzelfde.
It would be great to compare this with a power regenarator like PS-Audio.
I wish... PS Audio is impossible to get here.
Question, which is actually the phase on the cable or device.
And this is the same everywhere worldwide.
Suggest switching to oscilloscope screen view when comparing ?
It was hard to make out the differences over your shoulder:-)
Maybe I missed it, but are you using shorting plugs on the amp input or an open input? If not using them, how are results with them?
Not using a shorting plug on the single ended input. The Bryston uses a switch for selecting balanced / single ended.
Nice, can you get your hands on a Puritan Audio PSM156? As an Audiophile I have 2 different types of conditioners. 2 are from Monster lol and they are in tge basement in storage, the other are Richard Gray substation (isolation transformer) and a RGPC1200 that is a parallel choke. Is there a way I can test these with software and simple setup?
Depends on what loads your putting on it and certain power conditioners work best for certain things
Yes... but this video was to show they actually do something.
What about cheaper furman power conditioners?
I have a furman AC-210A. Bought it, hoping it would reduce noise for my audio gear, because I have problematic electricity at home. My fridge causes a high pitched whine in my audio gear. (I turn off my fridge when I record stuff). However, the furman didn't solve the problem at all.
Haven't tested them. So I dont know.
Wouldn't using battery power be cheaper considering the cost? Also, I've never heard of high-end recording studios using power conditioners, which would seem the obvious place to benefit everyone (as the original audio would theoretically be improved). They could probably use it to increase custom (even if they didn't actually make any noticeable difference).
Yes, such facilities address power.
Everything from generic dry-type grid isolation, to a Torus panelboard iso rig, to Equi-tech, Torus, or Furman point of use gear, etc.
Ground One (Art Kelm) operates in custom studio power.
- You're modulating wall power and capturing it as music.
- You're modulating wall power and reproducing that music.
It's vital that it's well sorted.
It would be interesting in a future video on the subject to add what only an isolating transformer is capable of doing for noise.
but is the noise you see audible? that is the question.
Depends on your ears, gear and faith.
That one is easy to answer: audition one of these at home, then you know from experience.
In my experience, you can't hear the noise, but you can definitely tell when there's a lack of noise.
Massively dependent on your electric supply quality. Best to view these as components that help your expensive audio equipment function optimally by reducing the amount of noise transmitted to them. Full regen components would be the ultimate so long as a) you have the bank balance and b) your floor and back can cope with the weight
You forgot the plixir 😉
Interesting test. I'd like to see how something like a PS Audio power plant compares to these passive units.
We can't seem to get one for review.
How do we eliminate mains hum? I want it gone. At high volume levels in quiet music passages I can even hear the AC frequency change by the change in hum sometimes. Ten houses 10 hums. Doesn't matter what amp, new, old they all hum in all houses all the time when the volume control is around the 11 o'clock position.
@@ThePaulv12 probably DC
Great experiment and demonstration. Thank you!! Now if only i can figure out what to shop for…
Just try a couple of them.
Hello would furman power conditioners be a good unit to buy for noise removal purposes? thank you
lovin the alpha lab content 🤘
so i was thinking you always publish the data of the live streams why not share with us that data, with your thoughts with some sound clips for some more alpha lab content and maybe we can all figure out how the objective data influenced our subjective impressions
you already have the data, recorded sound clips, recorded impressions from the alpha team.
there are channels that do sound clip comparrisons, some just data, some just subjective impressions but cant think of 1 that does it all.
Thanks!
Do you have any experience with the V5 Elektra? Would you recommand it?
I havent tested the elektra. Sorry.
@@TheAlphaAudiono problem. Thanks for the interesting video.
I'd like to know if a simple On-line UPS would do the same thing. They basically isolate and double convert from AC -> DC (to charger the battery) -> AC with clean power. Basic 1000VA ones are $1000 which is 1/2 the price of what you were testing here.
A UPS is very, very, very noisy.
A good follow up to this video would be how does all this highly expensive power conditioner compare to a more economical affordable power conditioners like a furman power conditioner and do a face off test and see if it’s worth forking over thousands $$$ on power conditioner vs $50-$200
The higher ampage on my wall socket (13A) is higher than isotek EVO 3 power bar (10A), and I was just wondering if this was the likely the cause for the throttling of my power amps.
Love your videos, btw.
Being a pot smoker, there are not many videos that can hold my attention like yours 🙃
Hahahaha!
Very interesting indeed!! I've tried allsorts of power conditioners including the Isotek super Titan with no success, it's as if all power filters seem to kill the sound of my Audio Research pre amp and my Audio note tube dac. If anything I found that an old Isotek minisub g2 was the best, that brought everything back to life, I then added a Synergistic Research purple to the Minisub G2 and the heavens opened up. Absolute magic.
Magic Purple fuses ? Cool story bro 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Is there a way to fully eliminate the noise coming from the socket? Like, would setting up a AC > DC and then back DC > AC work?
No. The conversion introduces noise as well. Especially DC - AC conversion.
@@TheAlphaAudio But then how do you get rid of it fully? Do you have to build your own power generator?
@@deama15 you never get rid of it fully. But you can suppress a lot of it with a huge galvanic isolation.
Hi, great work here! I was wondering, would it be possible to do a test of power conditioner vs UPS? I read some said UPS is better all around. Thank you :)
Soo what am i needing to buy for my 1200W gaming PC? I/we don't know what is considered "good" or "bad". What's the recommended tolerance for smooth power conditioning?
@@fcfdroid if you want to just eliminate noise - I guess that's the point - any decent filter will work. High end power conditioners don't impact speed, imaging, etc. But that is not important for a PC.
@@TheAlphaAudio transients are definitely a thing with gpu and CPU performance. Now how evenly they get their power may or may not effect their power 🤔
@@fcfdroid a well build PSU from a good brand - seasonic, bequiet, etc - will deliver all the power the cpu or gpu needs. I have build loads of pc's. Also gaming pc's for VR racing. Never had power issues with a good PSU. They are very noisy to the grid though. So if you have a high end hifi system next to the pc, you want a good power conditioner.
Thank you for doing and sharing rhese measurements.
Are these meaurements continuous or taken at one point of time? Wanting to know if the differences are within standard deviations of the power
Not sure what you mean.
Unfortunately isotek kills a lot of dynamics. Often heart them (also via blind test) and always got the same results. 😢
really interesting video ! it would be great to test the effect of the Yeti and Aquarius on a video source like OLED TV
We test Audio... sorry.
After adding a Puritan PSM156 in combination with a Yeti 1000 to my headphone audio chain, I moved the displaced AudioQuest Niagara 1200 to my LG OLED TV and it made a huge improvement to the picture quality. My wife and I were shocked, in fact.
Cool test. I really like those videos so much. One request regarding power condtioners vs power regenerators: Can you please also make a test of those? PS Audio always claims that impedence and the correct sine wave would be more crucial as filtering just noise like conditioners do
Of course they do... the make regenerators, not filters. Would love to test one though.
@@TheAlphaAudio I have a online ups with galvanic isolation transformer at home. PS Audio regenerator has similar topology like online ups, without batteries.
So, I went with online ups.
Nice test. Education for us that doesn’t know or can see. What about interference of the LED lights. How would that affect the amp?
Inference of LED lights is their switch mode power supplies. It is indirect, they put noise on your home grid. So if the power conditioner filters or suppresses these noises in that frequency spectrum, it counteracts the influence. Same is true for power inverters of solar panels and home charging solutions for electric cars, which often leak a lot of DC offset onto your home grid.
@@jmtennapel Thanks. My problem and EU standard with LEDs, I have more then 40-50 low light LEDs in our house. No charger for car or sun panels jet, so we are filled with jitter and interference…. Same as in modern life. Do I need to go off grid and power my gear with batteries?😀 No joke, but we need to slow down huge bit. Jaap talked about LED in a previous video and it’s impact. Best way is to build a separate electric power system to the music system in the house. Shielded cables and separate fuse box with filters. Tin foile hats?.
@@rikardekvall3433 Just buy a good power conditioner for your audio set and problem solved :-) Not everything works with everything, so it is a process of trying at home.
@@davidcross890 Great! We all need to know more and how to do. Please shoot a YT video describing how to do.
I have a Honda EU 20i . It is stable and quite . It's a massive improvement over anything that plugs in the wall outlet.
Why not both?
Huge respect for your work and it is work but it answers questions that people have had for decades! Brilliant!
Welcome!
What were the results when all 3!power conditioners were hooked up in series? :)
That is ill advised, you will hear hidden messages in the music.😁
Thank you! Keep going!
Where to get this Yeti power conditioner? Can't find it online.
Yeti has a website. yeti-acoustics.nl/
Can u test a online double conversion ups
Thank you! Very good content / test!
Mooie test , had ik niet verwacht.
any measurements of furman power conditioner or blacklion pg-1 or 2? very thanks
You should contact Grant about getting a Shunyata power distributor to try and test. Cheers.
Good to see more objective tests looking for differences in output of gear, rather than what goes on inside. Alas, in this class of testing, there are pitfalls. Unlike a real speaker, your Prism Sound analyzer is powered and hence can create a ground loop that wouldn't be there otherwise. You must work to identify this aspect as otherwise, isolation transformers like you tested will impact the measurements. But would not do so in real life. With Audio precision, I have control of whether the floating inputs are grounded or not. Ditto for input. I go through extensive testing to rule out ground loops.
You also said that transformer made a big difference. It didn't once you consider that out threshold of hearing in low frequencies is very high and hence the reason you wouldn't hear that hum out of the Byrston amp without said power conditioner. In other words, you are trying to solve an inaudible problem even if your testing was correct.
Is it a filter/ conditioner or a power regenerator
Conditioner
I have the Powergrip YG3. Have had a dozen other conditioners, but that one is just incredible! Higly recommended and makes a huge difference
@@davidcross890 Yeah I agree! It was mindblowing once I got that unit. I have never been pleased when connecting amps to conditioners. It has worked well with sources and stuff, but not with amps IMO. Until I met the Powergrip.. I have had so many different conditioners. Second best on my list is the PS Audio regenerators.
@@audiolife5038you forgot to switch accounts scambot😂
Don't DACs convert AC to DC and filter the output to an amp? If I am right shouldn't that be the test setup?
@@davemeder9082 not sure what you mean exactly.
Excellent review, great to see a scientific review for a change. Would love to see the same comparison with the Puritan PSM156.
Thanks. Follow our website. We do more tests like this. The Puritan is being tested now.
Nice vid! Can they improve also a PC PSU output?
There is a big night/day difference on my gaming pc.
We did a couple of times. Most pcs are horrible.
sorry I changed my comment.
Does it mean it is realistic a PC works better at night, most people say it is bs.
Would a battery+DC PC PSU be the best possible setup?
I tried a power station AC offgrid but it was even worse.
@@patrickh9679 a pc with switch mode doesn't work better at night. If you want to use a pc for Audio you need serious modifications. Clean power supply, dedicated usb ports and ethernet.
Bedankt voor deze video! Vraag: heeft zoiets zin als je set op een eigen groep zit, waar verder niets op zit? Gebruik een Furutech stopcontact en vanaf daar is alles Supra SPC. Denk eraan om de kabel vanaf de groep ook SPC te maken, maar zie nogal tegen die klus op. En als ik alsnog beter een conditioner kan aanschaffen heeft het nog minder zin (lijkt me).
Daar kan ik niets over zeggen, omdat het enorm verschilt per woning. Een aparte groep wil niet zeggen dat het schoon is.
@@TheAlphaAudio Duidelijk, weer wat geleerd. Thanks!
Als je in een wijk woont met heel veel zonnepanelen op de daken, dan komt er van buiten naar binnen al veel verstoringen die alle groepen in gaat.
Does anybody understand why on the Yeti the 50Hz was lower? After all that is what carries the power... Note that Aquarius and Titan did not suppress any of the 50Hz (which is what I would expect...)
It is a balanced setup. But the 50hz is leaking... i am measuring the speaker output on 1 kHz. There should not be any 50 Hz harmonics.
@@TheAlphaAudio At 4:15 you say "the 50Hz is lower", and I don't quite understand that, since rejection of 50Hz from the analog out is a property of the amp itself. (I would do a re-measurement there 😉)
Anyway, you make a good point with the video.
@@davidcross890 how is this nonsense? I actually show you that it isn't nonsense...
@@davidcross890 maybe you can send us a sample?
@@davidcross890 No. For shows I stay in Europe. It is not financially viable for me to fly to the US... unfortunately.
Can you please test the Accuphase power conditioner?
Unfortunately the Dutch distributer doesn't lend out units.
It would be interesting to see , what effect, let's say 15-20 volt below the specified grid voltage , the effect that would have !
We tested it with a PS Audio. That unit can handle a pretty wide range without issues. Normal conditioners don't fix that.
Just because we can get something to show up on a scope does not mean we can hear what it is doing with our ears. How much do these conditioners cost? If you are paying for something that you can't hear any difference from with your ears, then what are you actually getting for your money? Now, if all you want to do is just be able to say, "This conditioner looks better when I run it through a scope" then you certainly got your money's worth. Keep something in mind here, the WORST part of ANY home audio system is always going to be the human ears that are listening to it.
"I can hear a difference in power conditioning"... "Not possible! Show measurements!"... We show measurements... "You cannot hear that...".
@@TheAlphaAudio If I'm going to spend several thousand dollars on a premium power conditioner as a consumer, you damn well better believe that I'm going to tell EVERYONE that will listen that I can hear a difference when it is in use - whether I actually can or not. For those prices, I'm going to tell MYSELF that I can hear a difference, if for no other reason than to try and justify to myself all the money I just spent on the device. (Welcome to the world of high-end audio!)
And you can hear that, kudos.
How is it that when you are making a scientific test you are unsure of what you are testing?
Uhm... You say that all scientists always know what they are looking at? That would mean that we already know everything...
@@TheAlphaAudio no i didnt say that… you seemed unsure of the actual equipment you were testing which surprised me
@@paulk9534 I do not always know all types and prices by heart. I don't always care when I test stuff. When we write the reviews we look it up of course. But in video's like these it is not really important because it is about the tech and the measurements... Not the products.
GM ☕️
Yay! Bryston!😊
Interesting test …and yes, I like these tests .
Bravo 👏
What was the manufacturer's name & model number of the 1st power conditioner you tested? Yettey Power Filter?
Yeti
Hello, I do not agree with your conclusions.
It is evident that it can be measured, no one doubts it.
But it is also evident that in listening situations no difference is perceived between the conditioning equipment.
A real test that is useful for the buyer is blind listening or measuring the acoustic response. If the double-blind test does not produce conclusive results, then perhaps the product is fake.
That room looks like my dream, would love to do so many tests 😅
What tests would you perform?
@@TheAlphaAudio too many to list 😅
@@GoldenEagle0007 share some. Maybe we can perform some. Inspire us. :-).
@@TheAlphaAudioMost would not interest most people but I just would like to do many tests like your doing, at different time of the day or different weather/humidity etc etc etc to see if there is any difference in sound and repeat them few times with the equipment you have.
Would also like to test the sound of different connections have like usb/Toslink/coaxial with same brand/length cables vs different brands/lengths.
And so many more, I'm not sharing anymore secrets 😅
@@GoldenEagle0007 thanks for the feedback. :-).
Jeti or what is this power conditioner called/spelled ?
Yeti
It would be interesting to see how they worked with a Class D amp. All that chopping coming back at them.
Depends on the filter. Some work. Some don't.
Thanks for Sharing
You are not using balanced test measurement probes…correct?
You need to show every detail of your test methodology if anything you produce is to be believed.
I wonder how they respond during transient spikes
We will try to create a test for that as well.
... and what about a good serious Schaffner selected properly? what is we use an isolation transformer to drive a Schaffner (for signal source of course)?
... probably none of the product mentioned are b.s., let say they are all serious products, but imho the point could be another one... how much are they overpriced? (compared with iso trafo + schaffner)
A ‘whataboutism’. We cannot measure stuff that isn’t around. If you are kind enough to provide us with the materials, we might be able to.
@@davidcross890 No need to shout. I'm not deaf (yet)
My test is simple ,hook it up to a TV and observe whether it improvesthe picture .
yeah... good method.
What to use for multiple devices if you don’t want a power conditioner….power strips?
well done, hero brother 👍 try put the extra light (diff. lux / λ) to the phono cable or vaccum tube on next trials！ Sorry, my tone arm cable pickup all kinds of noises all the way 😫
Thanks. I didn't get your advice though... what do you mean?
@@TheAlphaAudio My audio KT88 tubes act as a Photomultiplier, and my old VPI phono tonearm with exposed signal cable are so sensitive to pickup the noise from a led light strip. I hope that you can measuring the same way (FFT) on the vintage gears or devices, such as vaccum tubes. I'm sorry for my poor english and Thank again, one of my PRO. KOL 💯 Any active or passive solutions or analytical demo to get better S/N are all welcome 😘
@@cosplay_hifi Ahhh... i get it now. I can measure interference. But I dont have vintage tube gear. Sorry
If you live in rural Africa and you have a poorly designed audio system, you might need a power conditioner. But better is to buy a well designed audio system. There is a good chance that if the power supply of your amp is well designed for noise rejection the amplifier itself is also well designed for high audio fidelity.
I think everyone is missing this logic. If you are spending $6k on a power amp and it needs an outboard power conditioner to keep the noise floor down then you got ripped off. If you spent $59 on an Amazon special power amp then adding a $1k power conditioner seems like a misuse of funds. ;p
@@fallenshallrise Very well said!
How can an AC filter filter out 50Hz hum? I think there is something wrong with your measurement setup
It is not a filter... its a galvanic isolation. So yes... that is possible.
@@TheAlphaAudio How? The transformer in an amplifier itself galvanicly isolates the mains from the speaker outputs. Other than eliminating DC offset on AC, there can be no effect as the 50Hz wave carries all the power.
@@MarcelOoms well... a Prism doesn't lie... and I didn't change anything in the setup.
@@TheAlphaAudio Shure. But aren't you wondering why? May reversing polarity on the AC plug is to blame, as thing can have EMI be in or out of phase in the various instruments. Or a shielding issue due to protective earth violations. These are measurable, but setup artifacts.
@@MarcelOoms the Yeti is balanced. So it is not weird the 50 Hz hum is reduced for it blocks DC.
Have you performed any tests on audio grade fuses? Can a fuse make a piece of audio gear sound better?
I haven't tested that. And I am not going to, to be honest.
@@TheAlphaAudio You don't need to compare fuses. The test you want to do is between a standard fuse and a copper slug. If there is no difference there, then any audiophile fuse will offer no benefit. Just do the same test you are doing here, should take 10 minutes.
how about you condition the source components and not the amps
“Quick and clean” instead of “quick and dirty”. 🤭
Yes... true!
I don't think its a good idea to recondition AC to AC in such application ( audio equipment ) all audio devices use DC. why not just have a quality linear AC to DC, and then feed that clean DC to the amplifier, dac, etc. ( yes those devices will need a separate DC input ) but that's far better that this AC reconditioning business.. its an overkill
Thank you for your great work
In a good design, this should not happen!!!
Unless the manufacturer intends to force the customer to buy more equipment
And still it does... also: how is a manufacturer going to implement a solution like the YETI in a device and still:
1. keep it small
2. keep the price down
...
...
@@TheAlphaAudio Using low noise power switching
@@aminbjt5843 oversimplification . Ground loops, common mode noise, all stuff that influences not a single component, but a set. And we are not talking about pricing yet, because designing components to be immune to all kinds of noise is costly and won’t keep most components financially acceptable to a lot of consumers. It’s not a conspiracy, you know…..
@@jmtennapel No oversimplification
But more efficient engineering
The most complex designs do not necessarily give the best results
@@aminbjt5843 Sorry, how many amplifiers that you designed are on the market again?
I think we in europe do not need that, or almost do not need. Cause 240v. Maybe i am wrong, and is another factor, but is what i experience and what i see. We have that problems, like everyone, just you do not notice them like people in US for example. Maybe we have cleaner energy coming from outside, or maybe less developed areas take advantage cause less people.
Voltage has nothing to do with noise.
@@TheAlphaAudioi am just a noob
@@duartefaria7134 everybody is free to ask questions. That is how we learn.
Trust your own ears. Could be the difference between hum/noise at 60Hz VS 50Hz or maybe the power is just very clean in your region or maybe you are benefiting from the adoption of DAB radio VS all the analog radio still being broadcast here. If it ain't broke then don't fix it.
We had a radio station long time ago in my town, i remember my hot speaker picking radio signal from that even when was off. Nowadays we do not have radio station. The signal i have in my house is clean, i have low to no noise, only the wind of a dialed valve amp, but i know people in my area that live near a hight tension eletric towers and they suffer a lot from noise. But in general that eletric towers are not in the middle of the towns so in my experience even a cafe or club have a clean energy suply coming from the street.
That looks like an actual, proper power conditioner. Looks to weigh about 20 kilos and is about 4 times the size of those Furman rack units. Yes, this is a real and proper conditioner, but most things sold as "power conditioners" are nothing but glorified extension leads with a fuse.
Case in point; ua-cam.com/video/iNC3TSTT3ig/v-deo.html
Nice! However, you really should do the same test with a powerful Class D amp. As these use a SMPS their power intake is pretty similar to output. Many mains conditioners use reactive components such as capacitors, coils which can have an effect of "throttling" the conditioner's output with short dynamics peaks. Result: the amp loses much of its agility, loses speed (always difficult to put sound to words), transients get smeared, dynamics get lost. The better the amp is, the more noticeable. Before you measure, listen to a decent system with Class D amp without conditioner, then add it to the system and you'll know what I mean. This is of course a sweeping statement. Don't believe me, try several conditioners and amp combos and you'll hear soon what I mean...
What I measured is pure noise reduction. This is half the story. You should ALWAYS listen to the combination in order to dertimine the overall effect. Not all amps like power conditioners. My Pass XP-12 doesn't like it for example. The X150.8 doens't like all conditiners as well. But if you found a matching one, the effect is great.
@@TheAlphaAudio Thanks for swift reply. the point I was trying to make is that the requirement of an SMPS from a wall outlet is very different to that of a linear supply for an amplifier. A linear supply has banks of reservoir caps so does not suffer if the conditioner is holding back as supply during strong dynamics in music are catered for by the caps. Not so with (most) SMPS where demand from the mains is just about as dynamic as the signal on speaker terminals (compare power input to speaker output with music playing on your scope!). That makes conditioners and Class D combos resulting in severe performance degradation.
@@WhatEver-dx3eu True. Also: smps are less sensitive to mains pollution.
And what about power cable in those devices? To me it looks like 3x0.75mm2 and current comes from walls where are usually 2.5mm2. What can be expected from devices that are actually bottleneck with reduced cable surface even "audiophiles" will plug their fancy cables into them???
The whole concept (conditioners, power cables) is one big nonsense!
Maybe you can borrow some audio grade power cables and swap them around in your home system. Maybe your ears will belie your beliefs. I suggest sensible priced cables as made by brands like Supra, not something overpriced.
@@jmtennapel When NASA starts to use "audio grade" power cables with magical features, then I will.
In meantime I will stick to fact how amprifier components runs on DC current after it was transformed and filtered from AC. They are very good at it and don't care about how dirty power coming from walls is as long as it is coming from stabile power net like it is in developed world.
With my comment I tried to point out absurdity how this test was done and conclusions made.
@@crodoc69 Have it your way.
Dear @@jmtennapel , I'm not that kind of "internet warrior". I try to give arguments. So far haven't seen anything concrete that would change my mind. Again, I was refering to fact how those power conditioners were tested here and usually used with consumer grade power cables and at the same time "audiophiles" put fancy cables in it.
Anyway, I wish you all the best!
Yes they make a difference. To your bank balance
Amps run DC.
Only the power supply is AC.
How could it possibly make any difference?!
@@Stikibits well... Check the video.
@@TheAlphaAudio Sure, you beat science, champ.
@@Stikibits you mean my Prism dScope and other measurement equipment?
@@TheAlphaAudio Too funny!
You should publish.
You'll win a Nobel.
The AC signal is non-extant after the power supply...it's converted to DC.
AC noise can't possibly exist within DC circuits.
@@Stikibits If you don't want to believe my measurements - actual lower distortion and noise at the speaker output of an amp - that's fine with me. I don't care. I don't sell any gear. I just review stuff and investigate stuff in my lab. have a lovely day.