Great analysis. You’re approach to the hobby is appreciated. It makes us think twice about spending extravagant amount of money towards misleading claims. Thank you.
Wonderful! Thanks. I use one of those surge protectors (from Furman, but same idea) as it came free with the house. The only thing that actually. makes a difference for me is a voltage regulator. My mains voltage drops to below 90 Volts in summer, and some audio equipment goes on strike. Bumping 90 up to 110 lets me listen to my stereo in summer! Yes, I can hear that in 10/10 cases. Love the "generic cord sounds better" confirmation bias note. Absolutely precious!
I purchased this device not for any sound quality improvements but as protection for a very expensive integrated amplifier. Is the conditioner expensive? Yes, but the non-sacrificial ability to open up the circuit if ever needed brings me peace of mind. I decided that at this price point it was worth it to me. PS I felt it was time to update this comment. Ended up canceling the order and going with a Furman DM 15i. When I really thought about it all I care about is the non sacrificial search protection aspect. I got the Furman on a special price promotion and save myself $600. I've been running it now for about 3 weeks and I'm very happy with. My sister still sounds incredible to me like it always did
I did the same on the info given to me at the audiophile store. This informative review makes me feel like I got royally ripped off. My very expensive tube preamp and amp cost thousands. Even went with the suggested power cords to each unit. Did I get taken maybe, do I hear a difference.. yes, remarkably I can. So it depends what quality of power you have at your mains, data don't lie, but also a good ear for sound and definition can't be beat. The single most important improvement one can make is putting your HiFi on its own breaker with its own run and outlet receptacle.
Darko likes whatever equipment manufacturer supplies him & his kickback - one day he likes “organic” the next day he’s pigging out on “junk food” no discernment & no consistency in his “reviews” & he comes across as a pompous & pretentious tosser
Ohh Mr. Darko, you are better blocking comments on your youtube videos ONCE AGAIN. Funny how some objective measurements can make someone a clown. In general, my personal opinion is that DO NOT BUY audio gear based on reviews that are done on FREE review samples. Wait for the users reviews, because those people spent they own money on it.
You always want to be a little skeptical of anyone that has a UA-cam channel out there that never mentions ANY negative aspects of ANY products they review. If someone is trying to make a living off of the videos that they post up on UA-cam, then the very first thing they likely want to do is not piss anyone off in that process (especially not the manufacturers of the products that they are reviewing).
I’m not sure I can trust the readings from your audio analyzer unless it uses a $200 power cord and AC conditioning box with gold stickers on the caps.
Thank you. Finally some real data instead of woo talk. Seeing how aggressive they push their products it really wasn't a surprise, but the fans play a shame game too. They get angry when you start asking difficult questions. Currently i have a german box with a surge protector and apparently a netfilter, for 40 euros.... didn't hear any difference either, but this was to protect the toys against surges
@@editorjuno Have you ever even read one of his reviews? He listens at 90dB minimum, and even then he considers that low volume. This dude is fucking up his hearing.
@@dannybos7024 -- That's just nonsense. Like most wannabe ASR critics, it's pretty clear that you have no idea of Amir's methods -- he certainly doesn't do his listening "at 90dB minimum," which BTW is about as loud as a typical gasoline-fueled lawn mower and only harmful with repeated and/or lengthy exposure. He may drive speakers that hard for automated measurements to find out their SPL limitations, but his listening tests are not done at ear-splitting volumes. The guy was an executive-level engineering manager at two of the biggest names in the business and was regarded by both peers and subordinates as "The Golden Ear" of the operations he ran -- this is not someone who would put his hearing in harm's way.
Amir, have you ever considered doing a UA-cam vid debunking audio equipment burn-in? Over the years, we have heard that burn-in affects speakers, cables, speaker wire, amplifiers, etc. I would guess a test like this would be easiest to do with headphones, interconnects and/or speaker wire because those are the cheapest and easiest to ship? You could perform the test on the new equipment, ship it back to the person who lent it to you, so they can use it in their system for a period of time (30 days, 60 days, etc.) and then have them ship it back to you, so you could retest and compare to the original results. Thanks for all the videos. I appreciate them.
Yes, the topic has come up recently in the context of speaker break in. I have offered to do the testing if someone builds a box with a woofer in it. Would do it myself but finding the time is hard. As to break in of cables and such, there is no effect as is so hard to then try to figure it out post break in. I can also do the break in by running stuff as long as it is not a really long time. If there are specific ideas, let me know and I will consider them.
The speaker surround and spider can change their stiffness if pushed far enough in excursion for a set amount of time but from what I have read those changes usually revert back to the original parameters once the signal is reduced or removed. Simply measuring the T/S parameters before and after "break-in" will show if there are any permanent changes. From what I can recall reading about this, it very rarely changes at all and when it does it's due to the spider stiffness changing due to excessive flexing where the chemical coating of the spider cracks slightly allowing the spider to become less stiff. This would apply to woofers only since midrange and tweeter diaphragms don't move much excursion wise. As far as "burn-in" for the speaker driver having to be a set time such as an hour to two weeks, that's bogus. To "break-in" a woofers spider just carefully push in the cone back and forth a few times and that would be enough to flex the spider. I do not recommend you do this though and take no responsibility for any damage that may happen.
Yeah, the people who know, know. The others can't seem to stop talking about their "objectivity" lol - likely 98% of them haven't even used the gear they type about.
I did the same on the info given to me at the audiophile store. This informative review makes me feel like I got royally ripped off. My very expensive tube preamp and amp cost thousands. Even went with the suggested power cords to each unit. Did I get taken maybe, do I hear a difference.. yes, remarkably I can. So it depends what quality of power you have at your mains, data don't lie, but also a good ear for sound and definition can't be beat. The single most important improvement one can make is putting your HiFi on its own breaker with its own run and outlet receptacle.
My brother-in-law engineers GPS and radio communication systems for automated farm equipment. Also has been a musician and has played several instruments for 30 years and mixes masters his own music. He just laughs when I show him equipment like this. Its all a scam and its to easy to convince idiots their hearing a difference. "It's easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled".
My best friend is a telecommunications engineer he has no interest in Hi-Fi, I started showing him Snake oil products by Audioquest and he told me that the people who run that company should be in jail for false advertising and robbery 🤣.
It's crazy how the world of audio has been neglected generally from objective measurements for so long. We have tons of hard core PC channels chalk full of down in the weeds data. Audio not so much. The worst part of about it is in audio there so much nonsense. The hype trains rarely back to good products.
18:03 I actually have been in the situation where I needed a AC power conditioner. I was using an old Luxman receiver and I was getting constant interference at my apartment. It didn't matter how loud I had the volume or what source I was using, the amplifier just pushed through constant popping and buzzing. As soon as I plug that receiver into an outlet at my girlfriend's home the interference went away. Something with the power at my old apartment was causing interference with the receiver. That said, I have never heard a modern (later than 1970s) piece of equipment have interference issues.
It actually doesn't measure the same, some high end equipment measures poorly in some areas. There is also a difference between high fidelity and audiophile equipment in some sense - maybe it sounds good to some ears while not measuring well in a hifi sense.
It’s a surge protector that shouldn’t muffle the sound and do any harm. You should have a listen to it and let us know if it makes a difference compared to other surge protectors.
How is it possible for companies like Audioquest to claim these things without showing any proof? Don't you have any marketing laws in USA this works against?
That's good! Someone should actually come out with a new ultra-premium, high-end AC line-conditioner and make the (honest) marketing claim that it completely "cleans out your credit lines" for you. :)
I love this video, I have a question. Does using a battery back up designed for a computer induce nose that can't be filtered by an audio gear power supply that filters the AC? Is the A.C. sign wave coming out of a battery back up so out of the normal wave form that it would cause audible problems? Battery back up devices are often the best for spike protection and thus the question.
These sort of products really annoy me about Audioquest. I think the only good products they make are the USB DACs, and they’re using them to build brand loyalty in hopes that people will start to buy their cables and surge protectors.
I'm going to design and sell a beautiful aluminum chassis with a small blue LED light on the front and inside it's just going to be a surge protector. Going to chart $5,000. Gonna make me rich.
I was that guy… snake oil by the truckloads like worrying about cables not touching the ground etc. it’s a relief to finally open my eyes and look at the science.
I sent mine back after 20 minutes of listening. I thought it collapsed my soundstage. 😂 interesting since i was excited to receive it. I guess the moon’s gravitational pull was affecting my perception that night.
Hello, Im on 230v 50hz AC i thought of buying Niagara 1200 for my pc but after the video im not so sure , is Niagara 1200 okay or is there something better ?
I have questions: the measurements show a low pass filter with ca 5dB from 5kHz up to 100kHz, yet the filtered output of the UUT has -5dB only around 5 to 20kHz, while the ugly 60kHz peak remains unattenuated. - which of the 3 measurements is wrong? A German, highly regarded developer says (if i summarize that correctly) the importance (and thus the success) of AC connections of v low impedance & inductance arises from the use of (integrated) amplifiers with large caps and extremely short charging duration, which alters the requirements for hifi transformers and supply power cord .. distributor.., vs general EE standards. As a consequence, also line level ground potential differences would occur between source and amp (no good for SQ!) if ac supply is suboptimal ie not of very low impedance. So, this would make your chosen subjective test arrangement (headphones only) not sensitive to what a good distributor can or cannot do. And explain the results you got. I agree on the technical descriptions given by AQ, AQ seem to have departed from earlier more understandable and technically less controversial approaches of marketing information. Zero Impedance is a nice word.
Current flows only for short time in the rectifier that's the problem to charge the caps. I would say power factor correction is good because lowers the current in average.
My store loaned me this power conditioner, at the beginning I was a bit skeptical having watched Amir’s measurements, but the guy in the store insisted how good it was and that I could take it home without any compromise and listen for myself, so I took it home, and all I can say is WOW!, my sound system sounds like it’s on steroids!: I get more bass, body, dynamics and the soundstage is bigger, instruments separation is awesome, I’m very happy with this Niagara 1200, couldn’t be happier with the results, I highly recommend give it a try you won’t regret it, I think what this Niagara does besides filtering is improve the disponilility for electric current so the sound system can perform without any restriction and reach its real potential.
@@MrsZambezi Measurements say a part of the story, but not the whole story, I hear a clear difference with the Niagara powering my amplifier, no placebo effect on my side, I’ve been listening to for almost 2 weeks, every day, comparing and there is a clear difference, at least in my sound system, I also contrasted what I hear with other opinions and they are very similar to mine. Maybe Amir can do a test on a better audio system and get other opinions , but I repeat I can hear a clear difference, this power conditioner is not snake oil. I also tested my streamer+CD but didn't hear a difference, but connecting the amplifier does make a difference.
@@vicentemonsalve5884 Unfortunately you cannot wish the placebo effect away nor can you decide to not be biased. You have to conduct controled tests. Consider watching the video about controled testing (same channel) and maybe get someone to help you conduct such a test. I don't want to catch you out. I am onestly curious about the results.
Another great test Amir, I really get a kick out of these overpriced superfluous devices that add nothing to the performance of audio gear or the listening experience.
Could you experiment whether a surge protector impacts audio performance, and if so, in what way? Where I live, a surge protector is necessary, but everyone says that surge protector can either introduce noise or restrict amps from being as dynamic as possible (by restricting current I think?). Would love to see some actual measurements and analysis.
That is all BS. I am an electrical engineer and the purpose of power supplies in your amp is to regulate the DC supply, provide filtering and provide reserves for dynamic loads.Buying surge protectors is simply paying twice for the same functionality. once in the device/amp and then again externally.
@@FOH3663 its better to have multiple methods of protection, the components like MOVs in surge protectors are rated to absorb only a certain amount of energy beyond which they don't protect and that would happen silently so if you had known surges such as lightning taking out other equipment then replace it or have more fail safes. I have seen surge protectors that you can install at the electrical panel in line with breakers, chaining multiple extension cords might not be a great idea as the losses go up.....
To me the I don't care how it measures I can hear the difference is a case of the Emperor's new clothes syndrome. A real audiophile WILL hear the difference. I want to be an audiophile, so I convince myself there's a difference where there isn't one. A good power conditioner will help protect your equipment, I will not improve the sound. BTW why does this only go for audio? I've never seen anyone say I connected my projector using a $1000.00 power cord, it added 100 lumen, better color, and it's way sharper. Also the blacks are silkier, better shadow detail etc, etc, etc.
Excellent point. As far as protecting your equipment, a $200 UPS will protect everything in a single circuit since at this price point it can handle up to 1500W. You get surge protection and emergency power. Don’t want to spend money on a UPS? Get a
My feeling is that video improvement "claims" are SO much easier to measure/dispute/disclaim/disprove than with "invisible" audio. That's why you don't see this nonsense in the world of video.
@@njm1971nyc that’s a byproduct of the fact that everyone has one or multiple tvs and monitors. Not everyone even has or uses a sound system or even headphones for that matter. They usually use the sound that comes with the monitor. The fact that video is more widespread versus discrete audio systems means that snake oil doesn’t manifest for as long so manufacturers also don’t pull the same nonsense since it can be figured out so easily.
@@hsharma3933 well I'm talking mostly about "enthusiasts", people who do care about quality. That said, there certainly are "high end" HDMI cables out there, costing several hundred dollars, but it's VERY easy to prove how ridiculous they are. Visual improvements are far less subjective than with the voodoo world of things you cannot see, such as audio!
Concerning the frequencies between 60 Hz and 3K there are two products on the market which claim to lower noise in that range. One is called the Absorber, and the other is the EP2050 made by Environmental Potentials. The first is made in the UK and the other in the US. I have the one made in the US. BTW, I see the PS Audio P-300 in your room. I have one also, which I use for source components. The box on top is a no-no. The P-300 runs hot. I keep the output under 50 watts. Thank you for the review!
When I first got into audio I used to follow alot of Audio Science recommendations...That said, when it comes to Audioquest, he's about as snake oil with his opposition than he his with dishing it out. It's whatever, the gen public need not get into nuances & the stuff is overpriced but then again so is EVERYTHING related to the audio "hobby."..like, arguably everything.
You know I'm so glad that your videos and reviews on your website come up when I'm actually looking for real legitimate reviews of products. I only really have one thing to say and that is go look up the philosophical concept of Pascals wager.
Its is like modern day alchemy, i.e. the belief you can turn lead into gold. And when you’ve spent a 4-digit amount on these things you will bloody surely hear an audible effect. The funny thing is that companies who sell this stuff actually are succesful alchemists as they turn metal into gold, aka cash. This business model is supported by the travelling alchemists who these days are YTubers who tell the great stories of fantastical results and unimaginable hearing revelations. These travelling alchemists in deed are a highly entertaining crowd and they fascinate their audiences with their blatant exaggerations. Some might call lies. And some might find a tad boring as the stories seem to be quite repetitive with ‚curtains being lifted, stages opened, instruments defined, any harshness eliminated and everything improved by 2-3% ’. This again fits very well with alchemy as these folks turn views and clicks into….cash. Which again has componies send them more amazing gadgets for more fanatstical stories and tales. A perfect alchemical circle. Or circus.
One reason these companies never give you any measurements is that they assume their customers wouldn't understand most of them. They assume you are stupid. And they're right to assume it since people pay a lot of money for stuff that is basically useless. I'm good with my $50 Furman power strip. Thanks for shining a light on this.
"i don't know what difference that could make?" Well, luckily i can enlighten you. Electricity is well over 100'yrs old now & doing things fast & efficiently in those old days wasn't priority & everthing was slow & dull & in black & white. So these old Victorian era electrons we're stuck with cannot instantly jump to a higher or lower orbit nor move quick & clean into another nucleus's (nuclei's?) orbit near as easily as electricity invented(🤪) today would ...where speed & efficiency is paramount. No need to thank me. p.s. that review comment about "Electricity being 100 years old" is likely the single most ridiculous thing to say concerning a power conditioner review
Common mode noise was not measured. Yes we don’t hear common mode but the noise effects digital circuits (dacs, streamers, routers, modems, switches) will have increased jitter and hence will effect final fidelity of analog output we hear. Common mode noise goes up to the Gigahertz frequencies now with all WiFi / cellular / 5G that gets absorbed by the power lines.
@@AffordableLamps Amir, measurements of dac shows this is not important. Way beyond human hearing. It’s the old create a problem (even though it’s not) and then solve it.
if you are worried about common mode noise which is an issue sometimes there is a existing solution, which is using a balanced system..... Again, you should change your equipment rather than adding these power conditioners... a balanced amplifier and DAC will have a lot of common mode rejection... also it just takes a common mode choke in the power supply to reduce that and that kind of filtering should be present
Many people back in the days say Monster products are crap and Audioquest is the sheet. Those are same fools that say $100 hdmi cable made by audioquest is better than $10.
With all the lies on other products from this company I will not buy anything from this company. You can get good product and a lot cheaper from everybody else.
Thank you very much , you just saved me 1500 dollars ! Can you please recoomend a good and affordable device that can actually improve the sound of the system ? i heard good things about the Surgex power conditioner .. thanks
Your money is better spent on the actual audio equipment like speakers, headphones amplifiers that actually and measurably sound different, sometimes better or worse. I still do recommend getting a basic surge protector as the last thing you want is a electrical surge damaging the badly designed line circuits....
Great video but my opinion and experience has been that some things can and do make a difference. I started trying things awhile back with the first being a supposedly a better power cord. I was shocked that I could hear a noticeable improvement in the bass. To see If it was a placebo or not. I had my son and neighbors listen. They also noted the change. Granted I’m not talking about WOW holy crap changes but still noticeable. After this I started experimenting with interconnects and power conditioners. Somethings were noticeable a lot weren’t. The biggest point I wanted to make is you may not be able to measure it but try some things out, if it doesn’t change simply send it back, there’s a lot of places you can do that. I relate this to trying new audio pieces like phono preamp’s and amplifiers preamplifiers etc. Does it change the sound and do I like the changes? If you try some of these things and they make no difference sweet you save money, if you try some new things and it makes a difference and you like it Sweet, either way it’s a win-win.
Placebo effect. It's a very real thing. Even placebo medicines often produce remarkable improvements in a patient's condition. It's simply not *possible* for an AC power cord to affect the bass response of your system. (Unless you're using the AC power cord as speaker cable! THEN it might have a (subtle) effect!
Just as I suspected. I heard glowing reports of this very unit online by accident & curiosity, tho i've never gone hunting a power conditioner or ac-dc-ac regenerater, mainly from what i heard about them via a friend & an acquaintance who used to work in a hi-fi shop & once told me something like: "These are for when you've got nothing left to improve upon by replacing or upgrading gear, so then you buy one" ..like "get 1 if you love spending money" & as confirmed on this site, they do diddly-...(maybe dogs or bats can pick out the 5'db less distortion at 20k ...between tracks) ..-squat as proved in the graphs. I think it's like you say, we test a new stereo product & choose music we are intimately familiar with, maybe for many years & so much so we believe our memory already knows all the hi-fi related qualities of that music, & if we feel we need to even hear the 'test music' without the review unit in place, we're still more inclined to concentrate much more on the hi-fi sound qualities with the review sample in the chain & maybe revert to our longer term memory of the chosen test music for comparisons sake, but whatever, i agree only 100%-blind testing with not even "tone of speach" clues, just the switcher anouncing & later asking "A" or "B" will tell the truth. Reviews of this unit to me imply a 90 to 95% blind discernment capability. I'd expect a true-blind 50/50 average to prevail long-term for preference of A & B, even from those who praised it highly.
If all these measurements you do are inaudible, why measure them? If you can't hear the differences you are measuring, then everything sounds the same? So I just go buy the cheapest stuff with reasonable numbers? You push the best measuring stuff, then say it's inaudible anyway? Don't get the whole ASR process.
His point here is that NONE of it is actually worthwhile at all - it's ALL a waste of your hard-earned dollars. There is no point at all in trying to "clean up" your AC lines in an effort to get better audio...so just stop doing it. Yes, surge protection is worthwhile and important (surges and spikes are real and they absolutley can and do damage expensive equipment when they occur). AC power line conditioning is not.
This video is wrong .. the high frequence that is removed affects jitter high freq noise cuases jitter ! @Fact ! So it does do alot and Alpha Audio does live a b .. powercords do change the sound and affects slue slew lol rates ! I can clearly hear as others these differences As i have 30 yrs of almost 24 / 7 music and audio experimants ! If you watch power cord live test you can hear the changes cord to cord and the room full of people that were there to laugh learned and heard the changes also !! High Freq adds jitter 😮😮😮😊
Only slightly related but I've got a nice Furman unit I've used for years now, and the ONLY reason I've kept it around is that it solved one very specific problem I'd had for awhile; every single other conditioner or simple power strip I tried would result in crazy mechanical transformer hum audible from across the room. A fault of my power amps perhaps, or some ground loop shenanigans (never did fully sus it out, to be honest), but when I got that Furman unit by god it finally disappeared. Did it change the actual sound quality? Not really, and if anything it degraded it a little, but it was worth every penny to be rid of that noise. Plus it looks pretty cool, which is never a bad thing.
That's perfectly fine application when you have a known problem and a box fixes it. Sadly 99% of audio power conditioners are sold people with no audible problems. They plug them in and talk about all kinds of imaginary improvements....
@@questionableidentity1 Well, like I said "if anything" it degraded things a little. Not really possible to do a proper A/B with a component like that of course, but I did find it to be (very) slightly "darker" upon first using it. That being said I went into it having read similar stories, so I chalked it up to confirmation bias and never thought much of it. Whether that's all it was or I just got used to it, I have been nothing but pleased with the performance since. I have a "Furman ELITE15 DM i", for reference.
@@questionableidentity1 Nice, I'd be very interested to hear how that works out for you. If there really is any audible benefit (or degradation) with power conditioners, I feel like the recording/production level is definitely where it would be the most obvious.
Seems like money wasted, no matter how you slice it. With a switching power supply, those AF harmonics will get sliced and diced, and in the end they just might contribute a tiny bit to the efficiency of the equipment's power supplies. With linear supplies, you might get some bleed of the AC line into DC rails if the power supply is of a poor design, and filtering out AC line harmonics _might_ reduce residual AC on the DC rails. But if that's the problem, then spending $1400 on improving filtering _after_ rectification should give you more "bang for your buck". Either way, throwing good money after bad without any real plan is only efficient at relieving you of your money.
@@StringerNews1 lovely, simmer down. in my experience also high priced equipment (i’d say particularly so) benefits from quality distributor with appropriate filtering, not as you seem to say, the opposite, ie all money on psu and power cable and distributor would not matter.
@@StringerNews1 I never anticipated living in times when medical nonsense would surpass audiofoolya nonsense.....for $1400 you can get a proper medical grade isolation transformer for balanced power operation & the audible difference is more than tangible
@@BogdanWeiss yes, isolation transformers can be noisy. It's for power, not signals, so no balanced line. If you are trying to put a signal on your wall outlet, like powerline networking, my advice is to use Ethernet or Wi-Fi. Or MoCa.
Hello, can you compare the sound output/THD with and without the Niagra 1200 using a mainstream amplifier with passive speakers to measure the difference in sound output/THC from the speakers? Maybe the device you were using already filters sound so well that the power conditioner wasn't needed, whereas if you compare results with an amplifier that has a higher THD there might be a more noticeable difference?
Power consumtion is NEVER at 50 or 60Hz, apart only for purely passive loads like resistors, capacitors or inductors. Any other load will consume as it requires and internal capacitors are not sufficient to compensate for that. A constant current load is also not at 50 or 60 Hz, but is at virtually 0 Hz, here the power factor will tend to be equal to 1, but to conform to our mains voltage we will need to follow a sinusoide in current and power. An audio device can pull from mains at higher frequencies. It is counter intuitive maybe, but we do not need filtering of the mains power down to 50 or 60 Hz for differential. It will be DETRIMENTAL for our device to get mains filtered down to 50 or 60 Hz, even if we can build such a filter. We need to block only the common mode. 1. In power conditioner we should focus to filter the common mode noise as this is the most likely to poison our input output path of our devices, and we should be less concerned about differential, and actually for the latest leave virtually no resistance for the audio band in the power conditionner. 2. A transformer powered device will have a consumption only in the pics of the sinusoidal wave, as the curent will flow only when the voltage reaches a higher value to charge the storage capacitor and provide the power for the load which is also not at 0V consumtion. So the consumption will never be at 50 or 60 Hz from the current and power points of view. 3. A switching PSU without Power Factor Corrector will behave exactly as a Power Transformer in this case. A PSU with a built in Power Factor Corrector will tend to spread the consumpion a bit, but any way will consume mostly in the upper half of the sinusoide to charge the storage capacitors and feed the load, it will not go down to 0V and the current consumpion will depend on the capacitor to charge and the load. A storage capacitor in such a PSU can store for full load enough energy for 1/25 - 1/100 s duration, or 1 to 4 half waves duration in relation to the mains voltage. 4. What we also want is to reduce the noise from the Ground wire to our device ground (I measured values to be as high as 1 V p-p), also to sink some of the generated noise by our devices to the ground (safety Y capacitors, coil coupling capacitors). Probably Amir measured the differential noise with a differential filter, which is not that much of a concern as it will be filtered further by the device. I believe Niagara introduces some minor change in sound but as Amir said it can be even detrimental. The difference can be difficult to identify and probably changes are mostly related to the Ground noise being reduced by power conditioner. I own a Topping A90, and I am not happy with their internal PSU and filtering from the engineering point of view, I will rate it as mediocre. I have done measurements and modifications to it , as I am an electronics enthusiast. At the moment I use a 10 Ohm resistor to connect my device to the Ground wire to form a resistive divider like a volume potentiometer so the resistance of the interconnect cable is less than the mains Ground to reduce the ground loop effect. I do not know really how good this solution is, and what are the better options for ground noise reduction. Thanks to Amir for his job, informative, very appreciated.
i wish i could get some of my gamer friends into audio, because they would *LOVE* the drama. you don't even know, how much they would love the drama that's to be found in home audio
I asked them I don’t want to mention the channel what it does does it get rid of RFI or EMI and I called them snake oil sales men and told them RFI and EMI can be corrected by your equipment’s transformer and there answer was we are demonstrating people make up their own mind.
Why don't you record the actual end result of the system. Get an audio interface record the actual audio out before and after whatever tweaking device. Inverse one of them and then play them together. If your believes that everything is snake oil is correct then the two sound waves should be exactly the same and cancel each other out.
Education is everything .... If you're ignorant then you will be cheated out of money in many areas of life....no excuse to be ignorant with audio , the facts were proven decades ago
It always is when you change something in your system. Your brain operates differently so identical sound will seem different. Please run the test blind and repeat it a few times per this video: ua-cam.com/video/vRG8TaxGcbU/v-deo.html
Have you found anything that works ? except for on the weekends, during the day some of the high frequencies can be a little harsh after about 8pm everything is silky smooth, would be really nice to resolve this. thanx
Nice video. Here is a myth/debate you may have already spoken to, but if not, might be ripe for your analytical approach. Many people claim it is better to have two equal length speaker cables in a stereo setup rather than uneven lengths. But is there any real science behind that?! Would be interested to see if you could test Amir ?
There is real science behind that claim, sure, BUT, unless the difference in cable lengths is SIGNIFICANT (or the cables are inadequate to begin with), the difference will be so miniscule as to be totally inconsequential. There are likely wider differences in the speaker drivers themselves, just from manufacturing/performance tolerances. Don't sweat anything that you're told is a "problem", if you can't hear that supposed problem with your own ears! 🙂
@@njm1971nyc There is a video now, idk when it was made but it made zero difference to home use. You can even coil one cable up and it still doesn't make a difference usually
There's absolutely both; a practical reason, and real science behind that claim. 1.) For future reconfiguration of one's system, it's prudent to keep you speaker cables equal in length. 2.) Real science, if one speaker cable is twice as long as the other it has twice the resistance. How significant is either of these to you? 1.) Murphy's Law suggests you'll likely re-config your rig and need that extra length! ... (then there's the OCD in knowing they're unequal). 2.) Physics involved suggest despite one run having twice the DC resistance as the other, it won't likely matter even unless the load plunges down to 1 to 2 ohms or so... even then it's freq dependent and short in duration. We all here grasp the theoretically ideal is to have ample ampacity to never encounter an operational scenario whereby the DC resistance is significant relative to the loudspeaker impedance. Nyquist complex impedance plots ... something we don't see too often anymore... they illustrate leading capacitive, or lagging inductive, characteristic impedance by frequency. Nyquist graphs are a helpful visual to fully represent the multi-parameter complex relationship.
He shouldn't trust measurements but should trust advice from a stranger online? Do you do this when you get sick? Listen to what some random person says instead of a doctor?
because your mind can convince you on anything, but measurements never lie...... and the truth is hard to accept when you have burned money into snake oil equipment...... it is hard to embrace but you need to embrace it eventually
@@rokiedecentra9656 you are so wrong. I have been an audiophile for over 25 years, and have listened to so many different hifi systems, and i have owned countless different amplifiers and speakers. I know for a fact that great meauserments don't always equal good sound. You are a fool if you buy hifi based on meauserments.
If AQ wants to do something good, maybe they should just sell that pretty chassis, I have a couple of icepower modules and a dsp board that would look pretty sassy in there.
I bet you roll around on the floor laughing when you do these tests. I do when you tell us just how many people buy into it. If you want perfect audio mains voltage. Then all you have to do is hang some garlic on all your wall sockets. Keeps Dracula out of your home as well. Sleep in a metal pyramid bed pointing south. So the microwaves do not get you. Keep up the good work. Love these videos.
Love your channel Amir. Measurements play an important role to obtain the true nature of a product. These products are a waste of good aluminium and copper.
Is the measured damping common mode CM or differential mode DM? I'm engineer designing filter for electronics daily. 5db is almost nothing. It could easy be 30 to 50 dB in DM. Yeah a lot of relegion and crab stories. Before go buy expensive power cable. Exchange all cables from the power plant to you power socket. Of cause it does not help. Thank you for really good analysis. You are totally right. BR Jan
Great analysis. You’re approach to the hobby is appreciated. It makes us think twice about spending extravagant amount of money towards misleading claims.
Thank you.
Welcome back! We missed you.
Thank You for another informative non-biased review! Your work is of great service to home audio enthusiasts like me.
Kill it for us Amir. Represent the people who want to stop the anti-intellectualism in the industry.
Wonderful! Thanks. I use one of those surge protectors (from Furman, but same idea) as it came free with the house. The only thing that actually. makes a difference for me is a voltage regulator. My mains voltage drops to below 90 Volts in summer, and some audio equipment goes on strike. Bumping 90 up to 110 lets me listen to my stereo in summer! Yes, I can hear that in 10/10 cases.
Love the "generic cord sounds better" confirmation bias note. Absolutely precious!
Yes they're great for that ....big Capacitor banks ..
can you send me a link please? the weather is hot most of the year here, do they have 240v version?
Mmmm yes I can get on the screw John Darko train
I purchased this device not for any sound quality improvements but as protection for a very expensive integrated amplifier. Is the conditioner expensive? Yes, but the non-sacrificial ability to open up the circuit if ever needed brings me peace of mind. I decided that at this price point it was worth it to me.
PS I felt it was time to update this comment. Ended up canceling the order and going with a Furman DM 15i. When I really thought about it all I care about is the non sacrificial search protection aspect. I got the Furman on a special price promotion and save myself $600. I've been running it now for about 3 weeks and I'm very happy with. My sister still sounds incredible to me like it always did
I did the same on the info given to me at the audiophile store. This informative review makes me feel like I got royally ripped off. My very expensive tube preamp and amp cost thousands. Even went with the suggested power cords to each unit. Did I get taken maybe, do I hear a difference.. yes, remarkably I can. So it depends what quality of power you have at your mains, data don't lie, but also a good ear for sound and definition can't be beat. The single most important improvement one can make is putting your HiFi on its own breaker with its own run and outlet receptacle.
But...Darko is a self-professed audio "expert" and released a video telling people not to question "experts" 🤣🤣🤣
Some call him Darkness.
Darko likes whatever equipment manufacturer supplies him & his kickback - one day he likes “organic” the next day he’s pigging out on “junk food” no discernment & no consistency in his “reviews” & he comes across as a pompous & pretentious tosser
The truth destroys darkos business model !
@@BogdanWeiss Tosser is the *perfect* word for him (and, frankly, all of those other so-called "experts", too).
Darko puts weights on his equipment 🤦🏽
Ohh Mr. Darko, you are better blocking comments on your youtube videos ONCE AGAIN. Funny how some objective measurements can make someone a clown. In general, my personal opinion is that DO NOT BUY audio gear based on reviews that are done on FREE review samples. Wait for the users reviews, because those people spent they own money on it.
Sometimes it's worse when people spend their own money on it because they WANT it to work.
@@joentell SO true. Especially when it comes to anything "audiophile". The majority of them are drinking the Placebo-flavored Kool-Aid!
You have so little faith! It’s not placebo flavoured kool-aid! It’s lipidium serpentine infused with pure silver 😉
You always want to be a little skeptical of anyone that has a UA-cam channel out there that never mentions ANY negative aspects of ANY products they review. If someone is trying to make a living off of the videos that they post up on UA-cam, then the very first thing they likely want to do is not piss anyone off in that process (especially not the manufacturers of the products that they are reviewing).
Another great video Amir. Another hit on my favorite snake oil audio company. 🤑
I’m not sure I can trust the readings from your audio analyzer unless it uses a $200 power cord and AC conditioning box with gold stickers on the caps.
Oh and the caps better sat: Mad in Janpa
Only with a $100 audiophile fuse ,. Could I ever trust the $15,000 audioprecision analyser ....
I assume it's plugged-in to a RED outlet...
Thank you. Finally some real data instead of woo talk.
Seeing how aggressive they push their products it really wasn't a surprise, but the fans play a shame game too. They get angry when you start asking difficult questions.
Currently i have a german box with a surge protector and apparently a netfilter, for 40 euros.... didn't hear any difference either, but this was to protect the toys against surges
The two Downvotes by John and Herb? 😉
😂
The SHAME! LOL 😆 So, do you think Darko & co. are just more victims of the placebo effect, or just plain fraudsters?
Could you do the PS Audio power re-generator?
This will be the ULTIMATE test!!
Paul McGowan is a shill
Audio Science Review is the 20/20 vision among the blind.
Too bad he listens at dangerously high volumes, which basically means his impressions will be insanely unreliable within a couple of months or years.
@@dannybos7024 -- Amir is an audio professional who knows how to take care of his hearing. Stand down from alert.
@@editorjuno Have you ever even read one of his reviews? He listens at 90dB minimum, and even then he considers that low volume. This dude is fucking up his hearing.
@@dannybos7024 -- That's just nonsense. Like most wannabe ASR critics, it's pretty clear that you have no idea of Amir's methods -- he certainly doesn't do his listening "at 90dB minimum," which BTW is about as loud as a typical gasoline-fueled lawn mower and only harmful with repeated and/or lengthy exposure. He may drive speakers that hard for automated measurements to find out their SPL limitations, but his listening tests are not done at ear-splitting volumes. The guy was an executive-level engineering manager at two of the biggest names in the business and was regarded by both peers and subordinates as "The Golden Ear" of the operations he ran -- this is not someone who would put his hearing in harm's way.
@@dannybos7024 ua-cam.com/video/zTEQmmG6TzE/v-deo.html he literally addresses it here
Amir, have you ever considered doing a UA-cam vid debunking audio equipment burn-in? Over the years, we have heard that burn-in affects speakers, cables, speaker wire, amplifiers, etc. I would guess a test like this would be easiest to do with headphones, interconnects and/or speaker wire because those are the cheapest and easiest to ship? You could perform the test on the new equipment, ship it back to the person who lent it to you, so they can use it in their system for a period of time (30 days, 60 days, etc.) and then have them ship it back to you, so you could retest and compare to the original results.
Thanks for all the videos. I appreciate them.
Yes, the topic has come up recently in the context of speaker break in. I have offered to do the testing if someone builds a box with a woofer in it. Would do it myself but finding the time is hard. As to break in of cables and such, there is no effect as is so hard to then try to figure it out post break in. I can also do the break in by running stuff as long as it is not a really long time. If there are specific ideas, let me know and I will consider them.
I suspect mechanical systems do have break in. Probably chemical systems too (capacitors and batteries) but to a lesser extent.
The speaker surround and spider can change their stiffness if pushed far enough in excursion for a set amount of time but from what I have read those changes usually revert back to the original parameters once the signal is reduced or removed. Simply measuring the T/S parameters before and after "break-in" will show if there are any permanent changes. From what I can recall reading about this, it very rarely changes at all and when it does it's due to the spider stiffness changing due to excessive flexing where the chemical coating of the spider cracks slightly allowing the spider to become less stiff. This would apply to woofers only since midrange and tweeter diaphragms don't move much excursion wise. As far as "burn-in" for the speaker driver having to be a set time such as an hour to two weeks, that's bogus. To "break-in" a woofers spider just carefully push in the cone back and forth a few times and that would be enough to flex the spider. I do not recommend you do this though and take no responsibility for any damage that may happen.
@@giriprasadkotte9876 And do you also suspect that The Fairies are real as well? I shan't blame you if you do.
@@Mrch33ky
As a qualified practicing mechanical engineering professional, what would you think I think?
I read this review and hoped you would make a video to go along with it. I love when you debunk this stuff!
Couldn’t be happier with my 1200! 😊🎉
Yeah, the people who know, know. The others can't seem to stop talking about their "objectivity" lol - likely 98% of them haven't even used the gear they type about.
Most people like the sonic improvement. There are a few who say it made no difference, and even less that say there was a degradation.
I did the same on the info given to me at the audiophile store. This informative review makes me feel like I got royally ripped off. My very expensive tube preamp and amp cost thousands. Even went with the suggested power cords to each unit. Did I get taken maybe, do I hear a difference.. yes, remarkably I can. So it depends what quality of power you have at your mains, data don't lie, but also a good ear for sound and definition can't be beat. The single most important improvement one can make is putting your HiFi on its own breaker with its own run and outlet receptacle.
Good to have you back ;)
God those comments by Darko and Reichert are just so freakin' annoying.
Annoying, frustrating, maddening, and quite pathetic, too. Hopefully they are now also EMBARRASSING for Darko & Co.!!! The SHAME!! 😆
@@njm1971nyc They'll just delete comments from their channels if people mention it ;p
The Niagara didn't sound as good because your brain heard burning money lol
My brother-in-law engineers GPS and radio communication systems for automated farm equipment. Also has been a musician and has played several instruments for 30 years and mixes masters his own music. He just laughs when I show him equipment like this. Its all a scam and its to easy to convince idiots their hearing a difference. "It's easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled".
My best friend is a telecommunications engineer he has no interest in Hi-Fi, I started showing him Snake oil products by Audioquest and he told me that the people who run that company should be in jail for false advertising and robbery 🤣.
Hopefully we'll see more power conditioners tested!
It's crazy how the world of audio has been neglected generally from objective measurements for so long. We have tons of hard core PC channels chalk full of down in the weeds data. Audio not so much. The worst part of about it is in audio there so much nonsense. The hype trains rarely back to good products.
18:03 I actually have been in the situation where I needed a AC power conditioner. I was using an old Luxman receiver and I was getting constant interference at my apartment. It didn't matter how loud I had the volume or what source I was using, the amplifier just pushed through constant popping and buzzing. As soon as I plug that receiver into an outlet at my girlfriend's home the interference went away. Something with the power at my old apartment was causing interference with the receiver.
That said, I have never heard a modern (later than 1970s) piece of equipment have interference issues.
Amir, you are an international treasure:)
Is there a chance some class action lawyer can get involved, I'm wondering. After all, thete is a law against false advertisement .
Really, why buy any high-end equipment - I am sure it all measures the same. Why bother listen, just trust the stranger on UA-cam....
It actually doesn't measure the same, some high end equipment measures poorly in some areas.
There is also a difference between high fidelity and audiophile equipment in some sense - maybe it sounds good to some ears while not measuring well in a hifi sense.
You do realize that ALL sound frequencies produced by anything can actually be measured, right? OK, just checking.
It’s a surge protector that shouldn’t muffle the sound and do any harm. You should have a listen to it and let us know if it makes a difference compared to other surge protectors.
How is it possible for companies like Audioquest to claim these things without showing any proof? Don't you have any marketing laws in USA this works against?
i assume too few people buy to make it a problem and too many people believe in it.....
It cleans your account.
That's good! Someone should actually come out with a new ultra-premium, high-end AC line-conditioner and make the (honest) marketing claim that it completely "cleans out your credit lines" for you. :)
Why is the best power conditioner you have tested and heard ?
I love this video, I have a question.
Does using a battery back up designed for a computer induce nose that can't be filtered by an audio gear power supply that filters the AC? Is the A.C. sign wave coming out of a battery back up so out of the normal wave form that it would cause audible problems?
Battery back up devices are often the best for spike protection and thus the question.
There's a reason why John Darko has comments turned off on his videos.
He's a shill.
they were active for long time and are active again now. so what is your conclusion now?
These sort of products really annoy me about Audioquest. I think the only good products they make are the USB DACs, and they’re using them to build brand loyalty in hopes that people will start to buy their cables and surge protectors.
I'm going to design and sell a beautiful aluminum chassis with a small blue LED light on the front and inside it's just going to be a surge protector. Going to chart $5,000. Gonna make me rich.
So do you mean one unit? Or are you going to make thousands of units?
I was that guy… snake oil by the truckloads like worrying about cables not touching the ground etc. it’s a relief to finally open my eyes and look at the science.
(...do you still have your cable lifters? ...would you sell them?)
(...do you still have your cable lifters? ...would you sell them?)
@@WeeWeeJumbo it was a diy contraption and it’s gone
I like non-believers. Fact is what counts. I am an atheist in every way.
I remember my first year of EE, one of the first circuit labs we had they gave us a black box and told us to figure how what components where inside.
You were just so angry at this box for existing that your brain convinced you it sounded worse!
Hehe. :)
I sent mine back after 20 minutes of listening. I thought it collapsed my soundstage. 😂 interesting since i was excited to receive it. I guess the moon’s gravitational pull was affecting my perception that night.
Hello, Im on 230v 50hz AC i thought of buying Niagara 1200 for my pc but after the video im not so sure , is Niagara 1200 okay or is there something better ?
I stopped listening to John Darko a long time ago, as well as Paul McGowan and Steve Guttenberg. A subjective claim.
Very expensive surge protector.
I have questions: the measurements show a low pass filter with ca 5dB from 5kHz up to 100kHz, yet the filtered output of the UUT has -5dB only around 5 to 20kHz, while the ugly 60kHz peak remains unattenuated. - which of the 3 measurements is wrong?
A German, highly regarded developer says (if i summarize that correctly) the importance (and thus the success) of AC connections of v low impedance & inductance arises from the use of (integrated) amplifiers with large caps and extremely short charging duration, which alters the requirements for hifi transformers and supply power cord .. distributor.., vs general EE standards. As a consequence, also line level ground potential differences would occur between source and amp (no good for SQ!) if ac supply is suboptimal ie not of very low impedance. So, this would make your chosen subjective test arrangement (headphones only) not sensitive to what a good distributor can or cannot do. And explain the results you got.
I agree on the technical descriptions given by AQ, AQ seem to have departed from earlier more understandable and technically less controversial approaches of marketing information. Zero Impedance is a nice word.
Current flows only for short time in the rectifier that's the problem to charge the caps. I would say power factor correction is good because lowers the current in average.
My store loaned me this power conditioner, at the beginning I was a bit skeptical having watched Amir’s measurements, but the guy in the store insisted how good it was and that I could take it home without any compromise and listen for myself, so I took it home, and all I can say is WOW!, my sound system sounds like it’s on steroids!: I get more bass, body, dynamics and the soundstage is bigger, instruments separation is awesome, I’m very happy with this Niagara 1200, couldn’t be happier with the results, I highly recommend give it a try you won’t regret it, I think what this Niagara does besides filtering is improve the disponilility for electric current so the sound system can perform without any restriction and reach its real potential.
The measurements show that you are mistaken.
@@MrsZambezi Measurements say a part of the story, but not the whole story, I hear a clear difference with the Niagara powering my amplifier, no placebo effect on my side, I’ve been listening to for almost 2 weeks, every day, comparing and there is a clear difference, at least in my sound system, I also contrasted what I hear with other opinions and they are very similar to mine. Maybe Amir can do a test on a better audio system and get other opinions , but I repeat I can hear a clear difference, this power conditioner is not snake oil. I also tested my streamer+CD but didn't hear a difference, but connecting the amplifier does make a difference.
@@vicentemonsalve5884 agreed... I don't like this measurements ONLY matter crap ... it's like from Stereo Review Magazine of the 60s and 70s ...
@@vicentemonsalve5884 Unfortunately you cannot wish the placebo effect away nor can you decide to not be biased. You have to conduct controled tests. Consider watching the video about controled testing (same channel) and maybe get someone to help you conduct such a test. I don't want to catch you out. I am onestly curious about the results.
@@hawaiiguy1 What do you mean by "ONLY"? Amir does listening tests.
Another great test Amir, I really get a kick out of these overpriced superfluous devices that add nothing to the performance of audio gear or the listening experience.
Could you experiment whether a surge protector impacts audio performance, and if so, in what way? Where I live, a surge protector is necessary, but everyone says that surge protector can either introduce noise or restrict amps from being as dynamic as possible (by restricting current I think?). Would love to see some actual measurements and analysis.
That is all BS. I am an electrical engineer and the purpose of power supplies in your amp is to regulate the DC supply, provide filtering and provide reserves for dynamic loads.Buying surge protectors is simply paying twice for the same functionality. once in the device/amp and then again externally.
@@exponentmantissa5598
In the area of surge protection, isn't a multi-tiered approach recommended for an effective surge protection scheme?
@@FOH3663 its better to have multiple methods of protection, the components like MOVs in surge protectors are rated to absorb only a certain amount of energy beyond which they don't protect and that would happen silently so if you had known surges such as lightning taking out other equipment then replace it or have more fail safes. I have seen surge protectors that you can install at the electrical panel in line with breakers, chaining multiple extension cords might not be a great idea as the losses go up.....
Hope you had a nice relaxing summer vacation. :)
Do you listen to any of the equipment you review?
To me the I don't care how it measures I can hear the difference is a case of the Emperor's new clothes syndrome. A real audiophile WILL hear the difference. I want to be an audiophile, so I convince myself there's a difference where there isn't one. A good power conditioner will help protect your equipment, I will not improve the sound. BTW why does this only go for audio? I've never seen anyone say I connected my projector using a $1000.00 power cord, it added 100 lumen, better color, and it's way sharper. Also the blacks are silkier, better shadow detail etc, etc, etc.
Excellent point. As far as protecting your equipment, a $200 UPS will protect everything in a single circuit since at this price point it can handle up to 1500W. You get surge protection and emergency power.
Don’t want to spend money on a UPS? Get a
My feeling is that video improvement "claims" are SO much easier to measure/dispute/disclaim/disprove than with "invisible" audio. That's why you don't see this nonsense in the world of video.
@@njm1971nyc that’s a byproduct of the fact that everyone has one or multiple tvs and monitors. Not everyone even has or uses a sound system or even headphones for that matter. They usually use the sound that comes with the monitor.
The fact that video is more widespread versus discrete audio systems means that snake oil doesn’t manifest for as long so manufacturers also don’t pull the same nonsense since it can be figured out so easily.
@@hsharma3933 well I'm talking mostly about "enthusiasts", people who do care about quality. That said, there certainly are "high end" HDMI cables out there, costing several hundred dollars, but it's VERY easy to prove how ridiculous they are. Visual improvements are far less subjective than with the voodoo world of things you cannot see, such as audio!
@@njm1971nyc ok yea I agree with that.
Concerning the frequencies between 60 Hz and 3K there are two products on the market which claim to lower noise in that range. One is called the Absorber, and the other is the EP2050 made by Environmental Potentials. The first is made in the UK and the other in the US.
I have the one made in the US.
BTW, I see the PS Audio P-300 in your room. I have one also, which I use for source components. The box on top is a no-no. The P-300 runs hot. I keep the output under 50 watts.
Thank you for the review!
Thanks for saving me a $1000! I was on the fence about purchasing this and your review stopped me in my tracks.
When I first got into audio I used to follow alot of Audio Science recommendations...That said, when it comes to Audioquest, he's about as snake oil with his opposition than he his with dishing it out. It's whatever, the gen public need not get into nuances & the stuff is overpriced but then again so is EVERYTHING related to the audio "hobby."..like, arguably everything.
You know I'm so glad that your videos and reviews on your website come up when I'm actually looking for real legitimate reviews of products. I only really have one thing to say and that is go look up the philosophical concept of Pascals wager.
Its is like modern day alchemy, i.e. the belief you can turn lead into gold. And when you’ve spent a 4-digit amount on these things you will bloody surely hear an audible effect. The funny thing is that companies who sell this stuff actually are succesful alchemists as they turn metal into gold, aka cash. This business model is supported by the travelling alchemists who these days are YTubers who tell the great stories of fantastical results and unimaginable hearing revelations. These travelling alchemists in deed are a highly entertaining crowd and they fascinate their audiences with their blatant exaggerations. Some might call lies. And some might find a tad boring as the stories seem to be quite repetitive with ‚curtains being lifted, stages opened, instruments defined, any harshness eliminated and everything improved by 2-3% ’. This again fits very well with alchemy as these folks turn views and clicks into….cash. Which again has componies send them more amazing gadgets for more fanatstical stories and tales. A perfect alchemical circle. Or circus.
One reason these companies never give you any measurements is that they assume their customers wouldn't understand most of them. They assume you are stupid. And they're right to assume it since people pay a lot of money for stuff that is basically useless. I'm good with my $50 Furman power strip. Thanks for shining a light on this.
Same as Apple never giving details yet...people buy it & their considered arguable the "best"
"i don't know what difference that could make?" Well, luckily i can enlighten you. Electricity is well over 100'yrs old now & doing things fast & efficiently in those old days wasn't priority & everthing was slow & dull & in black & white. So these old Victorian era electrons we're stuck with cannot instantly jump to a higher or lower orbit nor move quick & clean into another nucleus's (nuclei's?) orbit near as easily as electricity invented(🤪) today would ...where speed & efficiency is paramount. No need to thank me.
p.s. that review comment about "Electricity being 100 years old" is likely the single most ridiculous thing to say concerning a power conditioner review
you should at least have tested it as surge protector as it party marketed as such.
it likely works fine for surge protection
Niagara 1200 for sale here....
You measured differential noise , BUT what about common mode noise , your measurement did not show that at all.
I wish I could hear this noise, I never have with my audio equipment. Must be that it’s designed good.
Common mode noise was not measured. Yes we don’t hear common mode but the noise effects digital circuits (dacs, streamers, routers, modems, switches) will have increased jitter and hence will effect final fidelity of analog output we hear. Common mode noise goes up to the Gigahertz frequencies now with all WiFi / cellular / 5G that gets absorbed by the power lines.
@@AffordableLamps Amir, measurements of dac shows this is not important. Way beyond human hearing. It’s the old create a problem (even though it’s not) and then solve it.
if you are worried about common mode noise which is an issue sometimes there is a existing solution, which is using a balanced system..... Again, you should change your equipment rather than adding these power conditioners... a balanced amplifier and DAC will have a lot of common mode rejection... also it just takes a common mode choke in the power supply to reduce that and that kind of filtering should be present
Many people back in the days say Monster products are crap and Audioquest is the sheet. Those are same fools that say $100 hdmi cable made by audioquest is better than $10.
Interestingly, Audioquest hasn't responded to rebut your video!!! I wonder if they've watched it?
With all the lies on other products from this company I will not buy anything from this company. You can get good product and a lot cheaper from everybody else.
Thank you very much , you just saved me 1500 dollars ! Can you please recoomend a good and affordable device that can actually improve the sound of the system ? i heard good things about the Surgex power conditioner .. thanks
Power conditioners will not improove sound. Listen to amir
Your money is better spent on the actual audio equipment like speakers, headphones amplifiers that actually and measurably sound different, sometimes better or worse. I still do recommend getting a basic surge protector as the last thing you want is a electrical surge damaging the badly designed line circuits....
Thanks again Amir.
Bill Low continues to laugh all the way to the bank.
14:23 John Darko! XD Hilarious! That Snake Oil Salesman! 🤣
If someone is going to pay $1,200 for voltage filtration, logic is not going to appeal to them.
Great video but my opinion and experience has been that some things can and do make a difference. I started trying things awhile back with the first being a supposedly a better power cord. I was shocked that I could hear a noticeable improvement in the bass. To see If it was a placebo or not. I had my son and neighbors listen. They also noted the change. Granted I’m not talking about WOW holy crap changes but still noticeable. After this I started experimenting with interconnects and power conditioners. Somethings were noticeable a lot weren’t.
The biggest point I wanted to make is you may not be able to measure it but try some things out, if it doesn’t change simply send it back, there’s a lot of places you can do that. I relate this to trying new audio pieces like phono preamp’s and amplifiers preamplifiers etc. Does it change the sound and do I like the changes?
If you try some of these things and they make no difference sweet you save money, if you try some new things and it makes a difference and you like it Sweet, either way it’s a win-win.
There's is no difference, It was explained in the video - Turn your back and have your son swap between power cords and you wont hear it.
Placebo effect. It's a very real thing. Even placebo medicines often produce remarkable improvements in a patient's condition. It's simply not *possible* for an AC power cord to affect the bass response of your system. (Unless you're using the AC power cord as speaker cable! THEN it might have a (subtle) effect!
100% agree with you
Just as I suspected. I heard glowing reports of this very unit online by accident
& curiosity, tho i've never gone hunting a power conditioner or ac-dc-ac regenerater, mainly from what i heard about them via a friend & an acquaintance who used to work in a hi-fi shop & once told me something like: "These are for when you've got nothing left to improve upon by replacing or upgrading gear, so then you buy one" ..like "get 1 if you love spending money" & as confirmed on this site, they do diddly-...(maybe dogs or bats can pick out the 5'db less distortion at 20k ...between tracks) ..-squat as proved in the graphs.
I think it's like you say, we test a new stereo product & choose music we are intimately familiar with, maybe for many years & so much so we believe our memory already knows all the hi-fi related qualities of that music, & if we feel we need to even hear the 'test music' without the review unit in place, we're still more inclined to concentrate
much more on the hi-fi sound qualities with the review sample in the chain & maybe revert to our longer term memory of the chosen test music for comparisons sake, but whatever, i agree only 100%-blind testing with not even "tone of speach" clues, just the switcher anouncing & later asking "A" or "B" will tell the truth. Reviews of this unit to me imply a 90 to 95% blind discernment capability. I'd expect a true-blind 50/50 average to prevail long-term for preference of A & B, even from those who praised it highly.
Is the guy in the video Willian Shatners brother?
If all these measurements you do are inaudible, why measure them? If you can't hear the differences you are measuring, then everything sounds the same? So I just go buy the cheapest stuff with reasonable numbers? You push the best measuring stuff, then say it's inaudible anyway? Don't get the whole ASR process.
His point here is that NONE of it is actually worthwhile at all - it's ALL a waste of your hard-earned dollars. There is no point at all in trying to "clean up" your AC lines in an effort to get better audio...so just stop doing it. Yes, surge protection is worthwhile and important (surges and spikes are real and they absolutley can and do damage expensive equipment when they occur). AC power line conditioning is not.
Thank you, sir for the work you do. You may not realize the real value of it for not very well educated people, but it’s tremendous.
Yay!!! Thanks Amir
This video is wrong .. the high frequence that is removed affects jitter high freq noise cuases jitter ! @Fact ! So it does do alot and Alpha Audio does live a b .. powercords do change the sound and affects slue slew lol rates ! I can clearly hear as others these differences As i have 30 yrs of almost 24 / 7 music and audio experimants ! If you watch power cord live test you can hear the changes cord to cord and the room full of people that were there to laugh learned and heard the changes also !! High Freq adds jitter 😮😮😮😊
Only slightly related but I've got a nice Furman unit I've used for years now, and the ONLY reason I've kept it around is that it solved one very specific problem I'd had for awhile; every single other conditioner or simple power strip I tried would result in crazy mechanical transformer hum audible from across the room. A fault of my power amps perhaps, or some ground loop shenanigans (never did fully sus it out, to be honest), but when I got that Furman unit by god it finally disappeared. Did it change the actual sound quality? Not really, and if anything it degraded it a little, but it was worth every penny to be rid of that noise. Plus it looks pretty cool, which is never a bad thing.
That's perfectly fine application when you have a known problem and a box fixes it. Sadly 99% of audio power conditioners are sold people with no audible problems. They plug them in and talk about all kinds of imaginary improvements....
Interesting how it degraded sound quality. I read some other user say you lose 10 percent head room which is absolutely wild to me
@@questionableidentity1 Well, like I said "if anything" it degraded things a little. Not really possible to do a proper A/B with a component like that of course, but I did find it to be (very) slightly "darker" upon first using it. That being said I went into it having read similar stories, so I chalked it up to confirmation bias and never thought much of it. Whether that's all it was or I just got used to it, I have been nothing but pleased with the performance since. I have a "Furman ELITE15 DM i", for reference.
@@paran0ia7 I'm looking to solve some noise with microphone Amp and compressors. I placed an order for a Furman 1800 AR. So let's see how that goes
@@questionableidentity1 Nice, I'd be very interested to hear how that works out for you. If there really is any audible benefit (or degradation) with power conditioners, I feel like the recording/production level is definitely where it would be the most obvious.
Seems like money wasted, no matter how you slice it. With a switching power supply, those AF harmonics will get sliced and diced, and in the end they just might contribute a tiny bit to the efficiency of the equipment's power supplies. With linear supplies, you might get some bleed of the AC line into DC rails if the power supply is of a poor design, and filtering out AC line harmonics _might_ reduce residual AC on the DC rails. But if that's the problem, then spending $1400 on improving filtering _after_ rectification should give you more "bang for your buck". Either way, throwing good money after bad without any real plan is only efficient at relieving you of your money.
i think that is not a complete picture you are drawing here.
@@gioponti6359 if you want me to write a book, start quoting numbers. I'll tell you if it's worth my time.
@@StringerNews1 lovely, simmer down. in my experience also high priced equipment (i’d say particularly so) benefits from quality distributor with appropriate filtering, not as you seem to say, the opposite, ie all money on psu and power cable and distributor would not matter.
@@StringerNews1 I never anticipated living in times when medical nonsense would surpass audiofoolya nonsense.....for $1400 you can get a proper medical grade isolation transformer for balanced power operation & the audible difference is more than tangible
@@BogdanWeiss yes, isolation transformers can be noisy. It's for power, not signals, so no balanced line. If you are trying to put a signal on your wall outlet, like powerline networking, my advice is to use Ethernet or Wi-Fi. Or MoCa.
Hello, can you compare the sound output/THD with and without the Niagra 1200 using a mainstream amplifier with passive speakers to measure the difference in sound output/THC from the speakers?
Maybe the device you were using already filters sound so well that the power conditioner wasn't needed, whereas if you compare results with an amplifier that has a higher THD there might be a more noticeable difference?
What would you recommend if anything??
Power consumtion is NEVER at 50 or 60Hz, apart only for purely passive loads like resistors, capacitors or inductors. Any other load will consume as it requires and internal capacitors are not sufficient to compensate for that. A constant current load is also not at 50 or 60 Hz, but is at virtually 0 Hz, here the power factor will tend to be equal to 1, but to conform to our mains voltage we will need to follow a sinusoide in current and power. An audio device can pull from mains at higher frequencies.
It is counter intuitive maybe, but we do not need filtering of the mains power down to 50 or 60 Hz for differential. It will be DETRIMENTAL for our device to get mains filtered down to 50 or 60 Hz, even if we can build such a filter. We need to block only the common mode.
1. In power conditioner we should focus to filter the common mode noise as this is the most likely to poison our input output path of our devices, and we should be less concerned about differential, and actually for the latest leave virtually no resistance for the audio band in the power conditionner.
2. A transformer powered device will have a consumption only in the pics of the sinusoidal wave, as the curent will flow only when the voltage reaches a higher value to charge the storage capacitor and provide the power for the load which is also not at 0V consumtion. So the consumption will never be at 50 or 60 Hz from the current and power points of view.
3. A switching PSU without Power Factor Corrector will behave exactly as a Power Transformer in this case.
A PSU with a built in Power Factor Corrector will tend to spread the consumpion a bit, but any way will consume mostly in the upper half of the sinusoide to charge the storage capacitors and feed the load, it will not go down to 0V and the current consumpion will depend on the capacitor to charge and the load. A storage capacitor in such a PSU can store for full load enough energy for 1/25 - 1/100 s duration, or 1 to 4 half waves duration in relation to the mains voltage.
4. What we also want is to reduce the noise from the Ground wire to our device ground (I measured values to be as high as 1 V p-p), also to sink some of the generated noise by our devices to the ground (safety Y capacitors, coil coupling capacitors).
Probably Amir measured the differential noise with a differential filter, which is not that much of a concern as it will be filtered further by the device. I believe Niagara introduces some minor change in sound but as Amir said it can be even detrimental. The difference can be difficult to identify and probably changes are mostly related to the Ground noise being reduced by power conditioner.
I own a Topping A90, and I am not happy with their internal PSU and filtering from the engineering point of view, I will rate it as mediocre. I have done measurements and modifications to it , as I am an electronics enthusiast.
At the moment I use a 10 Ohm resistor to connect my device to the Ground wire to form a resistive divider like a volume potentiometer so the resistance of the interconnect cable is less than the mains Ground to reduce the ground loop effect. I do not know really how good this solution is, and what are the better options for ground noise reduction.
Thanks to Amir for his job, informative, very appreciated.
bonjour est ce que ces mesures sont valable avec un niagara 1200 sous 220 V
Brilliant review! Had plans to invest serious coin in a Niagra 3000 but now can spend the funds in a more meaningful way, thank you 😅👌
i wish i could get some of my gamer friends into audio, because they would *LOVE* the drama.
you don't even know, how much they would love the drama that's to be found in home audio
I asked them I don’t want to mention the channel what it does does it get rid of RFI or EMI and I called them snake oil sales men and told them RFI and EMI can be corrected by your equipment’s transformer and there answer was we are demonstrating people make up their own mind.
Wow....thank you Amir!
Why don't you record the actual end result of the system. Get an audio interface record the actual audio out before and after whatever tweaking device. Inverse one of them and then play them together. If your believes that everything is snake oil is correct then the two sound waves should be exactly the same and cancel each other out.
Education is everything .... If you're ignorant then you will be cheated out of money in many areas of life....no excuse to be ignorant with audio , the facts were proven decades ago
Notwithstanding its claims audiophile business is the least science based industry that I can think of, this video supports my statement.
I auditioned the Niagra 1200 2 nights ago in my system that feeds the latest Vandersteen 2ce...the difference was immediately apparent...
It always is when you change something in your system. Your brain operates differently so identical sound will seem different. Please run the test blind and repeat it a few times per this video: ua-cam.com/video/vRG8TaxGcbU/v-deo.html
Have you found anything that works ?
except for on the weekends, during the day some of the high frequencies can be a little harsh after about 8pm everything is silky smooth, would be really nice to resolve this. thanx
Superb analysis! Can you also do a review on power regenerators?
ua-cam.com/video/12T7JFLGlf0/v-deo.html
Nice video. Here is a myth/debate you may have already spoken to, but if not, might be ripe for your analytical approach. Many people claim it is better to have two equal length speaker cables in a stereo setup rather than uneven lengths. But is there any real science behind that?! Would be interested to see if you could test Amir ?
There is real science behind that claim, sure, BUT, unless the difference in cable lengths is SIGNIFICANT (or the cables are inadequate to begin with), the difference will be so miniscule as to be totally inconsequential. There are likely wider differences in the speaker drivers themselves, just from manufacturing/performance tolerances. Don't sweat anything that you're told is a "problem", if you can't hear that supposed problem with your own ears! 🙂
@@njm1971nyc There is a video now, idk when it was made but it made zero difference to home use. You can even coil one cable up and it still doesn't make a difference usually
There's absolutely both; a practical reason, and real science behind that claim.
1.) For future reconfiguration of one's system, it's prudent to keep you speaker cables equal in length.
2.) Real science, if one speaker cable is twice as long as the other it has twice the resistance.
How significant is either of these to you?
1.) Murphy's Law suggests you'll likely re-config your rig and need that extra length! ... (then there's the OCD in knowing they're unequal).
2.) Physics involved suggest despite one run having twice the DC resistance as the other, it won't likely matter even unless the load plunges down to 1 to 2 ohms or so... even then it's freq dependent and short in duration.
We all here grasp the theoretically ideal is to have ample ampacity to never encounter an operational scenario whereby the DC resistance is significant relative to the loudspeaker impedance.
Nyquist complex impedance plots ... something we don't see too often anymore... they illustrate leading capacitive, or lagging inductive, characteristic impedance by frequency.
Nyquist graphs are a helpful visual to fully represent the multi-parameter complex relationship.
Don't trust meauserments. Listen for yourself.
He shouldn't trust measurements but should trust advice from a stranger online? Do you do this when you get sick? Listen to what some random person says instead of a doctor?
@@AudioScienceReview NO. That's exactly why you should listen for yourself 😉
@@AudioScienceReview Just learned something today :-)
because your mind can convince you on anything, but measurements never lie...... and the truth is hard to accept when you have burned money into snake oil equipment...... it is hard to embrace but you need to embrace it eventually
@@rokiedecentra9656 you are so wrong. I have been an audiophile for over 25 years, and have listened to so many different hifi systems, and i have owned countless different amplifiers and speakers. I know for a fact that great meauserments don't always equal good sound.
You are a fool if you buy hifi based on meauserments.
If AQ wants to do something good, maybe they should just sell that pretty chassis, I have a couple of icepower modules and a dsp board that would look pretty sassy in there.
5:12 lol
I bet you roll around on the floor laughing when you do these tests. I do when you tell us just how many people buy into it. If you want perfect audio mains voltage. Then all you have to do is hang some garlic on all your wall sockets. Keeps Dracula out of your home as well. Sleep in a metal pyramid bed pointing south. So the microwaves do not get you. Keep up the good work. Love these videos.
I bought a filter once. Thank goodness it wasn’t that expensive because ASR opened my eyes after that!
You need to open your ears. Listen to the music and sound you prefer.
@@larsv6144 ok
Love your channel Amir. Measurements play an important role to obtain the true nature of a product. These products are a waste of good aluminium and copper.
Is the measured damping common mode CM or differential mode DM?
I'm engineer designing filter for electronics daily. 5db is almost nothing. It could easy be 30 to 50 dB in DM.
Yeah a lot of relegion and crab stories. Before go buy expensive power cable. Exchange all cables from the power plant to you power socket. Of cause it does not help.
Thank you for really good analysis. You are totally right. BR Jan