how many Super Mario games are there?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 16 тра 2024
- an analysis of the apparent controversy surrounding the enumeration and classification of the mainline series of games within the Mario franchise
00:00 - intro
01:24 - baseline
04:08 - major subseries
08:10 - the Mario 2s
10:32 - the Mario Lands
13:37 - side games
18:20 - enhanced ports and remakes
21:53 - Yoshi's Island
25:02 - the Mario Maker games
26:52 - Super Mario Run
28:33 - games made without Nintendo
31:24 - nonexistent games
35:43 - the other remakes and rereleases
37:44 - games and/or watches
39:51 - outer limits
44:25 - summary
/ hbmmaster
conlangcritic.bandcamp.com
seximal.net
/ hbmmaster
/ janmisali - Ігри
psst, do you want to help with the sequel to this video? I made a new much bigger version of the survey!
forms.gle/EVWf8pDAYxYcEa2e9
Just finished it.
Sure :)
Glad I desided to rewatch this video.
I call my 2-year procrastination in watching this video a success.
Just finished it!
this was in fact actually an interesting question.
Kewl comment razbuten
this is in fact an interesting comment
A verified youtuber that I have never seen before? Here's a like.
At this point I need to find a way to track your comments just so I can find more good content, dude
It's called having incredible thumbnail game. Good job!
1.1% of people really said, “Nah, Super Mario Bros. doesn’t count as a Super Mario game”
What even is reality?
@CybersheII yeah. The Super Mario mainline is 64, Sunshine, Adventure, Adventure 2, Heroes, and Shadow the hedgehog. They hit a bit of a dark age after that.
The bloody morons
You could probably argue that it isn't if your definition is skewed more towards newest-to-oldest because of how weird it is compared to other universally agreed "Super Mario" games. 3 and World play differently (same core components but still, there's a significant difference) that I could see you not counting it as a real "Super Mario" until 3 since both versions of 2 are weird fringe cases as basically a kaizo level pack or a reskinned game. I personally think it's a bit absurd, but there's definitely a case if you're lookin' for it.
I think Super Mario Bros. is a Super Mario Game, but there could be an argument for it to not be. Super Mario Bros., Super Marios Bros. Special, Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels, Super Mario Bros. 2, and Super Mario Bros. 3, New Super Mario Bros., New Super Mario Bros. Wii, New Super Mario Bros. 2, and New Super Mario Bros. U all have Bros. so they can seen as seperate from the mainline Super Mario series as it can be seen as a different series. I don't think that they're not part of the Super Mario series (except for Super Mario Bros. 2) but that doesn't mean there can't be an argument made against it even if it's totally unreasonable.
I love how this is primarily a essay about the Mario series but also doubles as a essay about franchise oddities. Re-releases, remakes, Spinoffs, temporary content and abunch of human bias. There definitely has been wackier abnormalities but this video covers most, and is also super good overall.
If you want to, you can also apply many of the lessons learned in this video to categorisation and labels in general. My takeaway is that while categories *can* be useful for communication, they will never capture reality perfectly, so we need to be prepared to set categories aside when they stop being useful. For example, if you want to challenge yourself to complete every Super Mario game, you're going to need a workable definition. But if you're asking whether you want to buy the new game that just came out, asking whether it's a Super Mario game is probably going to be less useful than a description of its gameplay, story, characters, and other qualities.
You were right! Super Mario Bros. Wonder is literally the first truly unambiguous title in the series since 1990 seeing as it's a 2D platformer, on a home nintendo console, with mario and super in the title, mario as the main playable character, and no "New" or 3D adjective in the title to complicate it. They finally made a true sequel to World. Only took 33 years for a definitive answer.
Now this just makes me want to try and come up with some vaguely reasonable pretext not to include it.
Ok, how's this: what if I decide that the title implies it's a spinoff-- maybe I only accept 2D platformers whose names are formatted "Super Mario ___", possibly followed by a number, where the larger series is broken up into subseries denoted by what that word is. So I would include SMB, SMB2, SMB3, SMW, and Super Mario Land 1 and 2. Super Mario Bros Wonder therefore must be a spinoff, because if it were part of the "Bros" subseries, it would have to be called Super Mario Bros 4, and if it were part of a new subseries, it would have to be called just "Super Mario Wonder".
@@ohno5559daisy’s in it, thats a reason
For it to be unambiguous, it would need to be called "Super Mario Bros 4(5 for japan i think)"
But is the Switch Lite really a home console?
@@Sumisuu kind of, id say its both a handheld and a home console
i have never played any of these games and i feel like i just watched a 45 minute video about "is a hotdog a sandwich" but if i'd never heard of hotdogs or sandwiches
Wait a minute, haven’t you played a super Mario game?
Oh hey there xidnaf! I guess i shouldn't be surprised you're a jan misali watcher, considering the genre overlap between your videos. id love it if you made more!
Yoooo dude love your content so much
Hey buddy
I played a few of them but feel more or less the same.
"There are hundreds of Mario games that exist, and even more that don't." The reason I love this channel
should I interpret this as 'there are more mario games that don't exist than mario games that do' or 'there are more not-mario games than mario games', because both are pretty deep
@@Patashu yes
Even after seeing this comment before I finished the video, I still burst out laughing when I got to that line.
Waluigi Taco Stand recognition
I think maybe it's supposed to refer to cancelled games or fan games?
I’ve heard the phrase “new soup” so many times that I didn’t even question it until he said “new soup” like 20 times
"Why are you buying Mario Bros. at the soup store?!"
“I’m at New Soup”
NEW soup? What was wrong with the old soup?
I can't believe the first truly unambiguous entry in the Super Mario Bros series since 1990 was just announced
I'm really not so sure. I keep watching the trailer, and it feels like the inverse of 3D World. A 2D mario game which plays like a 3D one. Collectibles were emphasized far more than other 2D games, and a lot of the levels looked mission based (there were definitely races going on for certain levels). So you know it could run into the same problem 3D World did just from the opposite perspective.
Still, given that it is basically built off of 3 and World, is 2d focused (even if it is collectible focused which was never a point of the beginning stuff) and is clearly Mario vs Bowser with no twists and stuff like that, depending on how much the Wonder Flower gimmicks rule the levels this could be the next unambiguous Super Mario game in consensus and gameplay tropes.
Wonder? No way is that a Super Mario game.
Honestly, yeah. Super Mario wonder matches pretty much all the same criteria that SMB1, SMB3 and SMW do. It isn’t part of the “New” series, it isn’t a 3d game, and it is on a main Nintendo console.
@@OmniChrome100t is literally called “Super Mario Bros Wonder”, which seems very straightforward to me. Would love to hear your argument
The answer is simple: every video game ever made is part of the Super Mario series. My favorite Super Mario game is probably Red Dead Redemption 2
My parents would like this classification. To them, every game is "Mareo Brothers"
Doki Doki Literature Club is pretty great too
Cookie Clicker is the 538962th Super Mario game.
Red Dead Redemption 2 is the best Final Fantasy
My favorite Mario games are the legend of Zelda wand of gamalon/faces of evil
I would like to have a conversation with the 1.1% of people who don’t consider Super Mario Bros to be part of the Super Mario franchise
Me too
They voted Delaware only and ran away screeching
Probably not the best conversation you would have had :D
haha lol.
- 1.1% of people presumably
I don't think any of them were both serious and knew anything about the Mario series
but that's like, just their opinion, man /s
Super Mario Bros. Wonder might become the first game in decades to be unanimously considered part of the Super Mario series because of its name and because it's not related to the New Super Mario Bros. games, which some people count separately
I feel like some people will argue it falls within New Soup anyway
Even if it doesn't, it's definitely gonna at least be the 19th game in the mainline Super Mario series.
@@anneprocterI love a good relaxalax reference
I literally scrolled to see if someone talked about wonder
@@DaytilionJamesJrIIIDidn’t he abuse his wife
I've scrolled past this video COUNTLESS times because I was never quite in the mood for it. So glad I gave it a chance tonight! Very well put together
GOSH ME TOO
It has appeared so many times in my recommended feed and I watched it just now!
same 💀
bruh actually exactly same
Same 😂
Ditto
There is no stand-alone Mario series. It's just a Donkey Kong spin-off.
Oh my god
Please no
***No***
oh.
Lol idk why but I love the fact that this statement was made by R. O. B.
Oh gosh your technically right but by that logic every book is a remix of the dictionary and every dictionary is a remix of human language
@@williamwashburn7665 these are also true.
Ah yes, my favorite UA-cam video: "how many Super Mario games are there?" or, how I like to call it: "An Inquiry into Typology, Ontology & Cognitive Science"
Underrated comment
So basically Vsauce.
among me and my friends this video is used as a shorthand for what a flawless video essay looks like
yep, rewatching because it’s in my extremely prestigious “greatest videos on the platform” playlist
I watched this again, and this question somehow has such a nuance of analysis that the amount of answers to this question is comparable to the amount of interpretations there are to the Bible
“There are hundreds of Mario games that exist, and even more that don’t”
Yes now I am afraid of the infinite possible Mario games that don’t exist.
bowser’s big bean burrito
@@Podzhagitel oh god
@@Podzhagitel Would buy
I’m here at my
Super Hornio Brothers
I’d like to argue “Mike Tyson’s Punch-Out!!” and “Punch-Out” are Super Mario games because Mario is the referee. because punch out is a platformer because you’re on a stage (platform) and mario is in it.
U are a fucking genious
Nope
nintendo hitsquad en route
You actually have a good point there. It's technically the truth...
Thank you Diogenes
Super Mario 63 is a flash fan game that is so good, that as a kid I assumed it was an official game. It's sort of a 2D version of 64, with a ton of Sunshine and Galaxy thrown into the mix, but its unique enough from those that I count it as it's own game. Dig up a flash emulator if you wish that 2D mario had that same collectathon vibe that 64, sunshine, and Odyssey do
super mario flash by poeuetpu games counts as a mainline super mario series.
Yooo Super Mario 63 is one of my favorite games of all time! It's definitely not a "Super Mario game" but it's high-quality enough to be one. The main story levels were just like any other Super Mario game and had pretty fair difficulty. It even had a janky level editor where you could modify the level codes to make enemies act like NPCs or put colored text on signs. Fantastic game, I must have spent hundreds of hours with it as a kid lol.
That comment at the end about a future game being "the first truly unambiguous entry into the Super Mario since 1990" could genuinely apply to Super Mario Bros. Wonder. Think about it, it should meet the criteria all three unambiguous titles do.
- A game with Super Mario in the title
- A fully original game
- A 2D Mario game without the "New" moniker
- Mario is the main player character
It's possible that it falls into a middle zone like Sonic Mania where it's status as a 2D game in a largely 3D series at this point discludes it in some peoples minds but I'd think itd be fun to have a game basically everyone agrees is a mainline game again.
“Yes your honor, Warioware smooth moves is a Super Mario game and should have been in 3D All Stars”
I mean there are Mario microgames in it so…
Can't wait for Mario's 40th anniversary where we get Super Mario 3d all stars 2, featuring:
- WarioWare Smooth moves (Wii)
- Super Mario bros. 3 (Unreleased PC version)
- Dr. Mario & Tetris (SNES)
- Super Mario Run (Android/ios)
- Kid Icarus (NES)
- Super Mario Pinball (GB)
- Kaettekita Mario Bros. (FDS)
And of course, how could we forget:
- Mario Cooking Noodle (Adobe Flash)
@@kimgkomg i think golf (NES) should be included too
@@Running_Colours and sm63
“Death”- The Judge
The fact that someone wrote in “the state of Delaware” as a Mario game is driving me insane
Are they wrong though?
I mean you could probably a decent mario game out of The State of Delaware
I consider it part of the Delawario series.
@@franrogers5723 No, it's part of the -ware series. There's Delaware, WarioWare, and Bioware.
@@Duiker36 Don't forget Adware and Warewolves and Warehouse.
i think super mario wonder is gonna be a new entirely non controversial entry since it's not yet part of a greater series or anything, not new soup, not handheld purism, not 3d, ect.
I mean the switch is a handheld, and the artstyle is very different from anything we've seen before. I assume it would be about as controversial as the 3D games
I love how youtube provides a space for incredibly niche analysis videos on subjects like this.
This is like if Unraveled stayed raveled. This is the talking-about-mythology-for-an-hour cut of the Castlevania Unraveled and I absolutely love it.
Unraveled might be ended. But it still lives on in our hearts.
First: great comment, Second: I used that exact profile picture for a while so seeing it on someone else through me for a loop. In fact I had cropped the image myself, and yours looks to be using the same crop so I wonder if I was the source for the one you are using
Ikr, this video reminded me of the link timeline unraveled
38:47
he is fully aware
@@jameswoods8843 is the question directed to me or quintsly?
If Captain Toad came out in the 90s it would have been called “Super Mario 3D World 2: Captain Toad’s Treasure Tracker” and would have had just as good an argument as Wario Land and Yoshi’s Island.
I hate how true this is
Yea....
"Super Mario 3D World" would've also had to come out in the 90s for that title to make any sense. But assuming that's the case, that still wouldn't make either Captain Toad, Wario Land or Yoshi's Island to be part of the main series, since having "Super Mario Land 3" or "Super Mario World 4" as part of the title was decided only for marketing reasons, to have a new series or game attached to a more well known or popular series. I think that if you include Yoshi's Island or the first Wario Land as part of the Super Mario series, you'd have to include ALL of the Yoshi's and Wario games.
There is ONE difference with Yoshi's Island: it actually has Mario in it. He is, in fact, on-screen more than any other character, including every single one of the playable Yoshis. It can even be described as a 2D platformer where the goal is to run and jump through the levels while ensuring that Mario does not die due to hitting enemies or obstacles. In other words, a Mario game.
There was no "carry baby Mario" sections in 'Mario World' or sections where you play as Wario in 'Super Mario Land' tho.
The Nintendo Cereal System was two breakfast cereals in one box. One was Super Mario, the other was Legend of Zelda, meaning that all LoZ games are part of the Super Mario series. And the LoZ DLC in Sonic Lost World means that the entire Sonic Series (except for Spinball and Mean Bean, obviously) are part of the Super Mario series. Sonic wore SOAP shoes in SA2, and SOAP was acquired by HSL in 2002. Dane Cook famously wore Heelys in the movie Employee of the Month, meaning that Dane Cook is officially a Super Mario Character.
Unfortunately, that also means that Noelle Holiday is a Mario characters, via Smash Bros -> Sans -> Deltarune -> Noelle
@@iantaakalla8180Noelle being the best like always
This comment forgot to mention that there's Persona 5 content Sonic Forces and viceversa.
Meaning the entirety of Persona games are part of the Mario franchise.
And the entirety of SMT. And MT
And Catherine of course
I like the implication that the lewd Demon/Persona Mara is a Mario character.
this could have been easier, there was yoshi dlc for sonic lost world too
My only theory for NSMB2 being included but not NSMB1 is that they figured NSMB Wii was the same game as NSMB1, and went for the home console version, either because they think home console games take priority or because they assumed it was a Wii-to-DS port, something that was known to happen. I’ve heard of NSMB1/NSMBWii mixups happening a lot, especially considering how similar the games are. Nintendo even called it NSMB *for Wii* during most of the publicity, which might muddy the water.
After hours of self-introspection, I have decided that Duck Hunt is the best Super Mario game
I can only imagine Jon Arbuckle sitting in deep silence for several hours before suddenly that Duck Hunt is the best Super Mario Bros. game.
Obviously E.T. Is the best Super Mario game.
@Tom Ffrench except what if it wasn't a person shooting?
@@CLOYO perhaps you're right next to the dog, camoflauged in the greenery, not shooting away from the screen, but towards it.
Wait I thought Metal gear solid was the best Mario game :/
"The fully uncontroversial game in this series are:"
Some part of me fully expected you to start making vowel noises.
LMAO
😂😂😂😂
I did not have that expectation but I am laughing far too hard at the mental image now.
@@hughcaldwell1034 It happens for me every time jan Misali says "are" followed by a slight pause.
@@billyweed835 The slight pause is the sound of a colon.
21:53 If I remember correctly, one of the 2020 leaks revealed Yoshi's Island had the subtitle "Super Mario Bros. 5" at some point.
39:10 Some earlier builds of SMW had the title "Super Mario Bros. 4: Super Mario World".
42:39 Technically speaking, it can all be traced back to Nintendo losing the license to make Popeye games and having to replace those characters with original ones.
Regarding what you said about how the alternate interpretations affect how people answer questions about ports, I'd love to see a follow up survey which breaks it down into two questions: 1. If you purchase this product, do you get a Super Mario game? and 2. Did the release of this game constitute a new entry in the Super Mario Bros. Series? The problem is if you do this survey it'll probably have selection bias towards people who have given this substantially more thought than the average person, thanks to this video.
Nobody: so you like Mario? Name every Super Mario game
Jan Misali: and I took that personally
nobody?
@@exnerhimself nobody.
@@General12th Nobody:
Always has been.
no but really. why "nobody"?
“Human subcultures are nested fractally. There’s no bottom.”
-Randall Munroe
personally i think crazy straws are kinda weird and stupid
@@Bacony_Cakes i think they're weird, but not stupid
@@CJWproductionsi think that if they're spun clockwise they're weird but not stupid, and if they're spun in a vertical clockwise fashion with more than 3 loops they're neither weird nor stupid
@@elizabethkasner5799 Based
"I disagree strongly with whatever work this quote is attached to."
-Randall Munroe
I do understand the points on counting an original game & its port. my reasoning behind it is not that they are separate games, but that one is 'original' and the other is the 'definitive' way to play it, so it deserves to be mentioned.
I think Super Mario Wonder, being a 2D platformer without 'New' in the title for a home console, might just be the least ambiguous mainline game since Super Mario World
"You're PROBABLY watching this video in the future."
Thank you for being inclusive to time travellers, who for some reason decided to bring this video to the past with them
My time travel plan is to load a bunch of mind blowing future media onto a flash drive and bring it back to when those different media are first invented to encourage the inventors to keep going.
...
Wait, they're not going to have anything to plug the flash drive into. Dangit!
Woah, I read this comment at the exact time it was said in the video! What a coincidence
@@Dargonhuman bring a laptop!
@@thegameshack3529 Presumably one with a beefy battery, nowhere to charge it. If you go far enough electricity just doesn’t exist, then again I doubt you could use a 19th century steam engine to charge a 21st century computer.
@@gwest3644 could also bring a solar powerbank. Just make sure not to break it 😎
jan Misali on AP54, December 2020: "Mario for the Game & Watch is the only obscure Mario fact I know"
*7 months later*
is ap54 a podcast?
@@travdump209 it's episode 54 of the Artifexian Podcast
@@jahinzee Misaly was on that? I listened to that episode but only discovered Misaly much later. Shame on me for not checking out the guests.
finally, the first unambiguous super mario game since 1990 has been revealed Super Mario Bros Wonder is basically like Super Mario World in its title and is a platformer featuring Mario, and on a home console therefore I'm confident to say it is truly a Super Mario game
Is the switch a home console though?
@@davinchristino yes. it is. it can be played at home, on a tv screen. its a handholdable home console.
@@Skivv5i think thats called a hybrid
@@Skivv5 You can play Gameboy games on a SNES
This is like overhearing a heated debate at a coffee shop that you would have never in your wildest dreams imagined existing but is somehow very interesting
Facts
one time i overheard two teenage boys on the bus arguing with other about whether it was worthwhile to live a noble but unremembered life. one was saying there's zero point in helping people if you have no legacy whatsoever, and the other was of the opinion that helping others carried innate value that inherently makes the world better, and so even if you're forgotten about it still was a net positive. Maybe one of the most surreal experiences of my life
@@EtherBotGames taking the bus in Athens
@@wyattmiller9539really hope they took philosophy later
new soup mmmmmmmmmmmm
“Who’s right, and why are so many other people wrong?” That quote goes harder than I expected damn.
out of context, mindblowing. in context, hilarious
I want to start a new UA-cam series with that title right now....
I don’t remember if it was this video or one of your conlang videos about the history of w but I’m so glad you take time out of your life to share your interesting observations even if they might not topics a lot of people would necessarily be aware of their interest in.
I love this channel I don’t think I’ve ever watched a full video start to finish bc the pace and tenor of your voice puts me tf out immediately thank you for your service
That edit you did with Brian David Gilbert saying the Zelda Game Watch made me lose my mind I love it
i had been thinking about that video since they mentioned the BS games!
lmao this
jan misali, master of ytp
After learning about the Unraveled videos and binging all of them, this feels very much like a spiritual successor to those videos.
I miss BDG
"Yeah I know what the Super Mario series is."
*Watches video *
"Okay I don't know what the Super Mario series is."
Accurate
WELCOME TO PHILOSOPHY!
The field which directly results in you knowing less than you did before you studied it.
@@EmeraldLavigne more accuratly is the dunning krugar effect
39:52 Speedster Comets is now canon in my eyes
46:02 Watching this again now that Super Mario Bros. Wonder has been announced, and I think this game is going to be uniquely unambiguously part of the Super Mario series! It has “Super Mario Bros.” in the title, it’s not 3D, it’s not part of the New Super series, and it’s for the Switch.
It is part of the new super series for now
@@theunholybanana4745 What makes it part of the New Super series?
@@theunholybanana4745 It doesn't have 'new' in the title, which is the defining factor of that series.
The game is set in the flower kingdom, not the mushroom kingdom, so some idiots might go “no. Not mario gam!”
@@TateyWateyMateyYT I mean, Super Mario World is set in Dinosaur Land, not the Mushroom Kingdom too. So is SMW not a Super Mario mainline game?
I like how the game for this video is set to Yoshi's Island
hello there
i watched 1000 super mario speedruns this is what i learned?
The true origin story
What? I don't get what you're trying to say here, you either went full idiot and wrote something different than what you meant or you're saying something that has no logical meaning.
@@MuscarV2 He's saying that when you look in the description, under the "games" section, the game being listed as being shown in the video is Yoshi's Island.
P.S. Hi Raymond
Hot take: each Mario Maker level is a distinct game in the series.
ah yes. I particularly love World 1237612541726 1268763728637. like the randomly placed enemies everywhere! great level design on the creators
No. No god please no
This is the wokest take I've heard
Best take I’ve ever seen
There are a Marioplex amount of potential Super Mario games
Coming back to this after the announcement of Super Mario Bros. Wonder… I think there’s a decent chance the next game WILL end up being the first unambiguous game in the series since 1990.
I would like to add that I think you can absolutely subdivide the "Super Mario Series" further into multiple sub series e.g. "New Super Mario Bros.", "Galaxy" and even group those together again into e.g. "3D Marios" and so on and so forth.
- I'd say it would even be legit to say that one game is part of multiple subgroups, while others in those aren't in the respective other series, etc.
"When I was a kid me and my brother developed a set of rules for footracing outside loosely based on Super Mario Galaxy, which was the only Mario game we owned. We called it Speedster Comets, and it counts as a mainline Super Mario game."
"there's nothing in the rulebook that says a pair of toddlers can't make a mainline Super Mario Game"
I've been thinking a lot about this comment ever since I read it a few moments ago
"When I was a kid me and my brother developed a set of rules for footracing outside loosely based on Super Mario Galaxy, which was the only Mario game we owned. We called it Speedster Comets, and it counts as a mainline Super Mario game."
So, there's like 19 then.
ok
I dId NoT kNoW yOuR bRoThEr Is MiAmOtO.
@@j100j I like how this implies Shigeru Miyamoto only owns Super Mario Galaxy
@@givecamichips it also implies that super mario galaxy existed when shigeru miyamoto was a kid
Thank you for the bit at 8:15... i am, in fact, one of the six people who wasn't aware of that fact but still invested enough in the video to keep watching.
I can’t explain how excited I got when you mentioned donkey Kong for the game boy oh my god
This has been in recommended every single day since release, I need to watch this finally lol
Same
Yo i love your videos
Heyyyy we got a celebrity here!
Hi Nath love ur vids
Cool
"There's no way I'm finishing this video, it's so long and there are unambiguously 18 Super Mario games."
*47 minutes later*
"Huh."
I find it ironic that the next game to follow this not only is the most unambiguous 2D Mario platformer, but also one that re-canonizes the Land games (at least the first time as of now, when only the announcement trailer is released)
I don’t think the Land games ever conflicted with the Super Mario series. But it is nice to know Daisy is an actual character, and not just a character trotted out in spinoffs.
Ouch
As someone starting to enter research, this video is excellently done from a technical standpoint. The through line of your survey and the accompanying analysis makes an otherwise silly and overedited video into a genuinely really well put together video that I believe you should be proud of.
The dry jokes in this video are hilarious. "A title consisting of 3 adjectives, a letter referring to a console the game is not for, the name of an iconic game character, and the word bros", "finally people can play these classic games on a screen too small to see the game", "wow nintendo is good at naming things", amazing
Honestly my favorite one was "After all, they are the ones who lost the levels in the first place". It was just so unexpected and probably not even really meant as a joke but I just found it so funny for some reason.
the super mario watch section, and the yoshi island section "both! love wins" and then when it switched to wario "both! love wahs"
@@Lumpfriend What are takodachis doing here?
I consider Sting's debut solo album "Dream of the Sea Turtles" to be a mainline Mario game and no one can convince me otherwise.
Super Mario Bros 2 was a dream by Mario
We can safely assume that the inhabitants of New Donk City are humans
When you put Mario next to a New Donker, you clearly see that Mario isn't human
And, of course, which known species isn't human? Sea Turtles
Mario is a Sea Turtle and Sting's debut solo album is a reference to Super Mario Bros. 2
@@sonarchy5158 Couldn't have put it better myself
*Blue Turtles
I love the internet
@@quad7685 It's moments like this that make me really happy to be part of this kind of community.
Something I consider is if a game introduces an element of play that goes on to influence future games in said series. Super Mario USA has enemies like the shy guys that are now commonplace in Mario games. An argument for including Yoshi’s Island would be its use of the ground pound and how it handles red coins. Red coins and the ground pound would go on to be features in both New Super and the 3D Mario series with Super Mario 64 and Sunshine primarily.
By that logic, Super Mario Odyssey isn’t a super Mario game because no future Mario games take from it since there are no future Mario games (unless you count Bowser’s Fury, but that takes from 3DW and Sunshine mostly)
@@danieldavid3766 I don't think your rationale is valid. A Mario game doesn't have to wait until another game comes out for it to be considered part of the franchise. No "future" Mario game has taken elements from Odyssey because Odyssey is still he most recent 3D game (Mario Wonder is 2D, and 2D games rarely borrow elements from 3D ones). Also, Nintendo lists it officially alongside the other Mario platformers in their website
just a offtopic note but i really appreciate the fact that you put subtitles on your videos because i reallly hate when other videos just have the auto generated subtitles
I dread videos that turn off subtitles entirely, specially since auto generated CC are turned on by default, that's kinda evil
the fact that you changed "love wins" to "love wahs" when changing the yoshi island analysis list to wario land is just, *chefs kiss* perfect.
Yes
love *wahs*
Love wins brah
Cant find it
Oh my gosh, good catch! I love it! 😆
"This game is an officially lisenced romhack of the lost levels"
what
That is so incredibly cursed
Right? Even more cursed is how the bizarre color pallette and glitchy graphics of the game make it look like something out of a creepy pasta lmao.
I know, right? When VS. Super Mario Bros. was released for the Switch, I was like whaaaaaat this is an official update / mix of SMB1 and Lost Levels, AND THEN a little later I found out that there was another one, but it was the other way around (using Lost Levels as the base game instead of SMB1).
I actually saw it in person the day before this video came out. Someone i know has a famicom with a famicom disk system with this game. It blew my mind then, so imagine my surprise when its mentioned here.
My take is to include games like Yoshi’s Island, Wario Land, and even Captain Toad as Super Mario games, but no their sequels. Because they got their start as Super Mario adjacent games, and Mario has always spun off of itself.
And also, it’s just an interesting way to cover the series if you’re a newcomer, given the crossover talent between those first games and the Mario games. I personally see Captain Toad as Mario in spirit.
I would say that when it was made Yoshi’s Island was considered a part of the Super Mario platformer series, but as more entries were made in the franchise the definition of what made a Super Mario game a Super Mario game changed and tightened, as well as the formation of a separate Yoshi series, excludes Yoshi’s Island from being a Super Mario game. The same can be said for Wario Land.
I dunno it kinda feels like to me a lot of “experts” are prone to include things like Satelleview, Special, Hotel etc. to flex their knowledge of obscure Mario games rather than honestly answer the question.
As if there's such thing as an obscure Mario game lmao.
@@AAA-qm9km don't act like game & watch, game watch, and watch aren't obscure
@@AAA-qm9km Why are you a lesbian?
@@AAA-qm9km I'm Palestinian actually luv xoxo
@@seronymus should have checked your channel first because I'm used to these comments being unironic
24:52 "I don't want to just give you a list of Mario games and tell you that's the right answer; my goal here is to present the tools necessary to create your own."
I never wanted these tools, nor will I ever need them, but by God I now have them.
Yeah it's like getting a tool for a super specific part of farming that was last used in like 400 ad
@@dolphin5177no its more like getting the tools necessary to do a job that has become obsolete and is not practiced anymore for thousands of years.
Was that a good transition? He was talking about Mario Maker
I think that for the case of bundles, tge bundles themselves are not seperate games but the individual titles within them are seperate games. My only exception to this is that Bowser's Fury wasn't released as a standalone (and therefore i include the bundle) but if that were not the case I'd exclude the bundle and include standalone Bowser's fury.
This was an awesome video! I have the Super Mario Bros Encyclopedia book, which officially lists 17 games being canon as of 2015.
I’d also include as my own personal Super Mario Bros headcanon:
18. Mario Run
19. Mario Maker 1
20. Mario Maker 2
21. Mario Odyssey
22. Bower’s Fury
Bowser’s Fury is the one that I’m on the fence of how exactly to include it.
I consider Luigi U to simply be an extension of the regular Mario U game, and not it’s own unique separate title.
I hate that Mario Run is sometimes considered by Nintendo to be a mainline Mario game since it’s a mobile game that’s not on Nintendo hardware, and it’s not really a typical platformer, it’s a mobile auto-runner, but I could kind of see why they include it. I think it at least still has some cool things that are commendable, like having a bunch of different playable characters with unique abilities, which is something I'd love to see in more future 2D Mario games
I never considered Yoshi’s Island to be a mainline Mario game. I feel like adding the subtitle “Super Mario World 2” was just a marketing gimmick to sell more copies, since SMW was such a massive success. To me, Yoshi’s Island is just the start of the Yoshi series, which almost every Yoshi game ever since has essentially copied a lot of it’s aesthetics and mechanics
Either way, it’s neat how many different Mario games there are, and that even re-makes and re-releases of Mario games can have their distinctions that set them apart
I don’t agree with any of the people who choose to only count titles with “super” in the name because obviously Nintendo is awful at naming these games
Can’t wait for Nintendo to release a game called “The Super Mario Series” and make this video extremely confusing
If super is in that means you count RPG, Super Mario Party, Super Mario Kart, and Super Paper Mario
i always found it funny with super in the title because in swedish super means drinking (specifically alcohol, and not in small quantities either) so “super mario?” is a valid question.
I think there's some validity to that, simply because of the name. I don't get why you wouldn't say the "mainline Super Mario titles." That makes it clear it's the mainline Mario games that exist after Super Mario was created.
You are right, but I don't think any of the games without "Super" in the title earned inclusion.
I just watched this whole video. Insane that you can produce content at this length and maintain quality. Almost 47 minutes and none of it is filler, in fact there is hardly a breath between sentences, not to mention the pace at which you speak would be considered quite rapid to start with. Admittedly towards the end my brain was pretty fried, and the words were just bouncing around in my skull (it doesn't help this was posted at 11pm lol). Great content as always.
They make great content but my brain was also fried by the end *insert it's always sunny meme*
Super Mario series new game remake land plus Nintendo unique 3D Wario watch platformer Yoshi U bros rerelease entry Luigi deluxe world 2 advance spin-off port maker USA
@@user-bv7um1ds7y which one?
how slow do people talk around you when his speech is considered rapid?
and, alas, Super Mario Bros. Wonder has released, which is what I'd guess is the closest we'll ever get to another unambiguous Super Mario series game
2D Platformer, no "New" prefix, on official Nintendo "home console" hardware and the whole shebang
Truly, asides from nostalgia, I cannot see a single argument for SMB, SMB3 and SMW being Super Mario games but not Mario Wonder
I would imagine one could say “a Mario game must be in the Mushroom Kingdom”, which also conveniently excludes Galaxy 2, 3D World, and Wonder, meaning you really get the oldest games.
@@iantaakalla8180 it would also exclude World though, which is in the Dinosaur Island
@@Feranogame
SMB3 also isn’t in the Mushroom Kingdom.
@@austinreed7343 yeah, adds to the point
I love that Wonder really is the impossible game you referenced at the end, the first unambiguous game since 1990
"oh, this will be a fun, light video."
-my perception of reality crumbles to ashes in my tear-soaked hands over a "game series" I've played very little of.
Same bro. 🤝
Loved this video! I've also done a lot of thinking/discussing on this, as part of the "Mainline Mario Marathon" I did (beating every mainline game in 1 day). I came up with the same main list of 18 as the one presented in this video!
I guess I wasn't actually answering the exact same question, since I think I'd actually have different answers for what counts as a mainline game, and what counts as part of the "Super Mario series." Things like Mario Run, Mario Maker, Super Mario Deluxe, etc. and even Super Mario Bros. Special I would include in that. But I think the mainline list is the list of 18.
The two possible exceptions are: Mario Maker 2, since it has a single player campaign. But it would be strange to include it and not Mario Maker 1 lol. And then Bowser's Fury. It wasn't actually out yet when I did the marathon, and I'm still not really sure how I'd answer this. I'd definitely include it if I beat all the games in a day again, since I think it fits perfectly into that scenario, but I'm not sure I'd call it a standalone mainline Mario game.
By far the most common question that was brought up was why I didn't include Yoshi's Island, since it's *clearly* Super Mario World 2! But the gameplay is obviously so different. I'd tell them it was a Yoshi game, they'd say that was revisionist history lol. I'd always bring up Wario Land: SML3 and they weren't willing to include that. Pure hypocrisy! I'm glad you brought up Wario Land in this exact spot as well haha.
Anyway, love your videos and it was extra fun to listen to you talk about something so directly up my alley. Add me as a +1 to the 2.15% that made the list of 18 games!
This is the crossover I never expected to happen
As soon as the video mentioned "mainline Mario series" being an alternate name for the "Super Mario series" I disagreed but also thought of your marathon as a fairly respected source on the question, and I was impressed to see that the most common list (and jan Misali's preferred list) matched it exactly! (I then scrolled down to see if anyone had commented a similar thing, and saw your comment at 1 minute old, but I wanted to watch the rest of the video before reading the whole thing)
The part of the video about the "3D Mario series" was also very interesting, as the Super Mario 602 took the stance of excluding 3D Land and 3D World (although then the 982 sprung up and added 3D World but still not 3D Land, probably as part of the "home console bias" mentioned in the video). A lot of my personal experience with the Mario franchise comes from watching speedruns and so I have biases towards what the speedrun community has agreed on, but if there is such a thing as the "3D Mario series" then surely 3D Land should also be included. I can understand excluding both games in the claim that they aren't "open world/sandbox games", but I think the status of 3D Land should go along with 3D World, and perhaps the reason it hasn't is that 3DS capture devices are difficult to come by and so speedrunners can't easily include it in their events. I'm interested to know what your thoughts on this topic are, and whether it's fair to call the 602/982 a marathon of the 3D Mario series or whether it should just be seen as a collection of interesting speedgames that don't form a complete set (after all, we'd have to add Odyssey now and that would add 8+ hours onto an event that is already intimidating in length).
edit: Oh, and I suppose Bowser's Fury is also in contention as a "3D Mario" game as well now, so we get to have that whole debate again!
I have a logically consistent reason for including Yoshi's Island but excluding Wario Land: I do not believe the Super Mario Land series, as a whole, is part of the mainline Super Mario franchise.
I only hold that belief out of home console supremacy, though.
@@ohay12 the 602 predates all of those games. The real reasons for those categories existing are that 602 was originally all 3d mario stars, then 3d land came out and it's kinda not the same and doesn't have stars, 3d world is sometimes added purely for the fact that it has stars, and Odyssey is rarely but sometimes included purely for time reasons. The run is already 20 hours long, most people barely want to try that let alone that plus Odyssey 880. I think 3dw is added just for fun where possible. I don't think it fits the category. 3d land 285 medals fits even less. The dumbest thing is when people will question whether 3dl/3dw are "3d mario games" and sometimes go as far as saying they're "2.5d" or something stupid like that. They are obviously 3d mario games lol, and it's hilarious to question this for the titles which literally have 3d in the name. They're simply not traditional 3d mario games, and that's a perfectly fine distinction
helo
jan Misali, I demand you to make a 10 part series on the taxonomy of video game genres, you’re the only person I can think of who would do it properly
i know you probably won't see this, or care per say, but because of this video, random deep dives into video game culture and history of games i barely care about has become one of my favorite high activities. there is nothing more fascinating to me than learning about extremely niche topics from people very passionate about it.
I'm one of the 6 people who didn't know what the deal is with Super Mario Bros 2 but is also invested enough to make it 8 minutes into a video about Super Mario games, so thanks for explaining that. ("I promise this is an interesting question" is an attitude I like in a video.)
Same here. I've never played any Mario games in my life, but I love videos like this. I've watched the entire Unraveled series like twice and rewatched some of the videos 3 or more times lol
Same! I grew up playing Mario, too! I mean, not a LOT, but like, I had the games, I played some of them sometimes.
OK, my wife & I are also in this group. Where's #6? haha
joining the group, ive barely played any mario games (my parents didnt buy any for our wii for various reasons, but i did play galaxy 1 and kart wii, and i owned, like, mario & sonic winter olympics. too young for previous consoles, newer ones cost too much TwT) and i didnt know about the mario 2 thing, though both games looked familiar - i mightve seen video of them before...
I think I might count as half of an ignoramus in this context. I knew there was some weirdness that I'd heard of but forgotten, and wasn't surprised at the lack of SMB2 in the list. I was just sitting there trying to remember before he explained it - and I failed.
I never would've expected someone to call 3 watches a "trilogy".
My world is crumbling around me.
triumverate
Isn't a trilogy also a kind of ring? Was that a pun?
@@fabiob7261 they did make a trilogy with rings in the title, but I think you might have had a stroke and lost your vocabulary or something, that's far from what it means
@@dionyzus2909 no I just checked, a trilogy ring is a ring with three stones, I saw it while searching for the engagement ring for my fiancée, there's a famous one from Tiffany for like 10k or something ridiculous like that
Also yeah the pun was never there, I did have a stroke I think
Makes more sense than Super Mario All-Stars containing a trilogy of four games.
This is researched way too well for the video's subject, props to you
Re-watching the video. I can't believe the next Mario game has actually ended up the first unambiguous Super Mario game since World.
I will have my very own "Behold, a Man" situation when I ask folks on their opinions on what constitutes a mainline mario game now, thank you for providing the food for thought
The mainline super mario series is actually a featherless nulliped.
Behold, a mainline Mario game!
Super Mario Bros Game & Watch (1986)
When you can claim Sticker Star is a mainline Mario game because it has platforming, classic Mario enemies, and even Luigi and Toad
I will never get tired of people calling it "New Soup."
When you’re having new soup U,
“oh come on I had this soup yesterday”
“no that soup had wii in it”
"Welcome back to SOUP! SUPER MARIO MAKER, welcome back to SOUP!"
same! plus i love the air twirl mechanic
Watch Dunkey, his favourite game is still SOUP-
@@CLOYO I think you mean SOUP 2
Oh I was WAITING for Super Princess Peach. I absolutely include it in the main series.
"As opposed to the rest of the Mario games, which did really happen"
Exactly, Mario gave me a lift into town on his kart the other day, such a nice guy.
Misali told the spinoffs "you're a Mario game alright, just not a super one"
(the short name is actually `misali`, like how you wouldn't call hatsune miku just `hatsune`)
@@hecko-yes Right, as is proper. I guess I kinda just forgot.
@@hecko-yes was it changed from 'jan' ? because that means person lol
@@alfiealfie35 yeah
funny thing is, the owner of ma pona (a toki pona discord server) does go by just `jan`, hella powerful
@@hecko-yes hello i am yes person
People who exclude the original super mario bros game from the list are doing purely to be contrarian
banger video. I only started watching sm64 in the last couple years so I had no idea about most of this, even the thing about smb2 being two games :) ty for making this
17:00
I feel like the main distinction here is that Luigi IS one of the Mario Bros, while Wario definitively is NOT.
Practically the only thing Wario Land games have in common with the rest of the Mario franchise is Wario himself. The mechanics are different, the enemies are different, the levels are fairly nonlinear
I feel like these are the reasons the Wario Land games aren't Super Mario Games. They're a spinoff series.
Luigi U, however, plays identically to NSMBU
Are we completely sure wario isn’t siblings with Mario and Luigi?
@@pendhd649 yes
@@pendhd649 Wario is German, Marios are Italian.
@@Jotari I somehow never knew that
Yoshi's Island reminds me of a "backdoor pilot" in a TV series. It was named as if it were part of the main series, but it was the launching point for a spinoff series featuring a side character with distinct gameplay.
That’s a really good analogy
That's a pretty good way of looking at it actually! Also thank you for teaching me the term "backdoor pilot"
So what you're saying is that Yoshi's Island is to Super Mario Bros. what Steamed Hams was to the Simpsons, but if it was actually successful instead. Huh. Cool.
I would have loved a world where Steamed Hams was a spinoff starter because that would extend The Simpson franchise in a meaningful way such that a 32-year reign made sense.
I kinda feel proud that I properly guessed all the main 18 games everyone considers a part of the series in like less than a minute but wow I don't think can even perfectly give a good take on each title it feels like sometimes it'd just vary depending on my mood cuz it's so wildly carried it's insane I thought I knew this series extremely well but I learned about a fair few titles that blew my mind & never knew about some of these what a video
I'm convinced this is the greatest UA-cam video of all time
After watching this, I’ve decided that this is my list of Mario Games:
*Super Mario Bros.
*Kirby Star Allies
*Undertale
*Jetpack Joyride
*Kanye Quest
*Chess
*UA-cam
*Playgrounds
*College
*Terraria Calamity Mod
*Battle for Dream Island
*The Zelda Wiki
*Giving Birth
*Among Us
*Toilets
Don't forget the state of Delaware
@@cst1229 Right I almost forgot
Me wnen the
I disagree with your inclusion of Terraria Calamity Mod because mods shouldn't count. But otherwise I completely agree
Ah yes, battle for dream island, my favorite mario-based web series.
This reminds me of those videos where people use cameos and crossovers to tie tv shows together into an abomination of a "cinematic universe"
Mario and Ryu are both in Super Smash Bros Ultimate, and Marvel vs Capcom exists, so I think that officially makes Mario a part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
@@gyroninja2633 And the Marvel comic books have seen some crossover with the Transformers who have, in turn, been spotted with the Ghostbusters meaning Luigi should probably prepare for a court case about patents.
Game theory had a video that tied many game and other universes together and Mario was apart of it so I guess you can add marvel to that
It annoys me that we can't have cameos anymore, because so many people are obsessed with shared universes. On a similar note, it also bothers me that people expect every show to have one continuous canon. Take The Simpsons for example. It's been running for nearly 35 years, on weekly episodes that (with a few exceptions) don't interact with each other. Yet people are still annoyed when it "breaks canon".
Two things we need resurrected: cameos that don't mean anything beyond a quick gag, and canon-less tv shows.
@@neutralnarwhal8184 And Marvel characters appeared in Fortnite, so that means that _every_ franchise featured in Fortnite can be linked back to the Mario series by this extension.
This video is just bloody wild. Probs to you for your efforts analysing all that data and making it interesting when I have no ties to Mario or games really. Watched to half way and now my heads sore, but I appreciate the effort so comment, like and I'll catch the rest another time. Hope your dreams aren't haunted by obscure mario stats haha, mines would be
24:01 list item no 3 "love wins" vs "love wahs" lives forever in my brain now
what a fascinating topic! personally, i think the question of "is this a Super Mario game" is a bit too complicated to simplify down to a boolean answer: just for a few complexities, there's the ports, enhanced ports, and remakes (which i would consider super mario games that don't add to the number of "unique" games in the series), there's the many obscure edge cases i learned new things about, and there's Half-Game Limbo. also here's my take on super mario world 2: yoshi's island and wario land: super mario land 3: they're not super mario games, but they're more closely related than anything else in their respective subseries, like the part of a branch that connects to the trunk.
oh and isn't it weird that the order of title and subtitle swapped between yoshi's island: super mario advance 3 and super mario advance 4: super mario bros. 3? i don't think i've seen anyone specifically point that out (i'm sure someone has), but because of this seemingly nonsensical swap, both titles end in 3.
You could say that these two form their own "Mario Advance 3" mini-series
@@copycat2696 This is a frightening comment, I am in awe of your power
@@benjamintoulouse7052 that's a solution, i guess, but the complexity of a full percentage score seems more confusing than enlightening here. just a few intermediate statuses would probably be enough for my tastes and avoid needing one sharp cutoff between distinct games that are part of the series count and games that aren't distinct enough or "super mario" enough to count. all depends on how you prefer to interpret the question!
@@benjamintoulouse7052 honestly, i think that it's a better idea to have multiple different classification systems in use for different purposes. if you're asking "how many distinct games are in the mainline Super Mario series" then a scale with just a few steps is better (2 or 3 seem most apt and have their own pros and cons), but if you're asking "how many kinds of Super Mario game are there" or "would this particular release be considered a Super Mario game" then a rating system with a wider scale makes more sense. that's my opinion, certainly fun to think about!
"Boolean answer"?
Really weird way to say "yes or no answer"