Mass Effect 2 - Squad Members' Opinion On Legion's Loyalty Mission
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2010
- Well, since nobody has uploaded a video about it, I took some time to make a compilation.
Hope you like it!
Kasumi: 1:00
Zaeed: 1:07
Jack: 1:14
Samara: 1:25
Thane: 1:35
Tali: 1:42
Jacob: 1:55
Mordin: 2:07
Grunt: 2:18
Garrus: 2:26
Miranda: 2:41 - Ігри
"That sounds dangerously close to recalibration" - Garrus.
"Indoctrination"*
@@RascaldeesV2 If you played Mass Affect 2 you definitely didn't spend enough time with Garrus.
@@RascaldeesV2 Also, you just don't correct an 8 year comment. Especially with 178 likes.
@@ArkHive3R acknowledged
If you reply to an 8 year old comments does it still make a sound?
Oh my god, I didn't realize Grunt's helmet-mouth thing moved like that when he talked XD
Yeah that's crazy
Same 😂
Ha I never knew either
A decade later and we’re still learning stuff
fucking weird, mate
“They will exterminate your species because their gods tell them to. You cannot negotiate with them. They do not share your pity, remorse, or fear.” Such a good line, really drives home how truly alien the geth are and how it might factor into ethics and threat assessment - but at the same time genocide for the gods seems so organic and primitive even.
"And they absolutely will not stop, EVER, until you are dead" ;)
The second part of the quote is a Terminator reference if I'm not wrong
Sounds like any regular day on human history.
The Covenant, run!
Since the Terminator reference has been made, I will say they sound like the Borg, or worse, the Federation.
I think its kinds funny how Zaeed's incredibly hostile response still sounds less shitty than what Kasumi says about the Geth
Yeah exactly. I love Kasumi but I don’t know why she was so closed-minded and frankly kind of ignorant about this
@@joeywild2011 But she’s ultimately right. We’re looking at this from a purely organic mind set. While it may seem morally wrong to rewrite from an organic stance, they are hardware which can be upgraded and changed. Now if this was Geth with the Reaper code it’d be different because they’d be sentient.
@@unionblue21 These Geth are still sentient. Reaper code Geth are individuals with emotions, but no more sentient then pre Reaper code Geth.
@@SoupSultan Well the Reaper code makes each Geth an AI while Geth pre code are more akin to a VI and only gain some intelligence from other nearby Geth.
@@unionblue21 They are not VI, they are AI. They are referred to as AI throughout the trilogy, and the council banned AI research (unless you're a big corp with a license) because of the Geth uprising. The only difference the Reaper code makes is that they become individuals instead of a collective.
"Alert: this facility has little air or gravity. Geth require neither."
Would've been good to know BEFORE WE GOT ON THE SHIP LEGION.
I mean..they're Geth. Basically robots. It's obvious they wouldn't need air or gravity in their hangout.
@@devoradordelosmundos ...right, but then if it's so obvious, why does he need to state as much? Answer: the writers were worried that the player would freak out, and so padded their script with redundant exposition.
Or maybe just dramatic flair. To show how really synthetic the geth actually are.
@@devoradordelosmundos LOL they're flashlight heads. I'm pretty sure we get that they're synthetics. You know - after two games' worth of killing them.
Just admit that it's a dumb line my dude. Is that so hard? XD
@@hieronymusboss7705 Correction: They were keeping him in-character. Legion is basically a robot, and robots don't think as we humans do. He stated as much, because he thought it was logically relevant.
Grunt looks like a fucking armored turtle
And that's awesome! Turtles are cool: They live long, they have shells and you just gotta love those little lizards.
I like turtles
Well like turtles, Krogan live very long as well.
They can out live any Asari by over twice their age... XD
wrex and okeer are proof of that
I love garrus comments always makes me think a bit because he rarely select a side but gives advises instead
Dudes literally been on both sides lol, I can see why
Almost all of them did that
Despite jack being you know, a total psychopath lunatic killer and all. Her response is actually pretty morally deep and provokes deep thinking. huh. neat
***** yeah. but its mostly referencing her backstory and lore as in how she's like the most dangerous blood thirsty criminal out there. Then again, when you're bred for fighting with no real experience a normal child should've had and also hanging out with criminals and scums, what you expect her to be an angel? XD
I personally don't really see how it's that deep. She just says she'd rather "die as herself"; and while this is ultimately true for the moment, once she was changed her mind would not agree to the former opinion. Alike how most of us are absolutely certain we never want to change when we are young, but often change and with this, also come to disagree with our past. So while Jack is correct in that she desires to be who she currently is at the moment; would she change and be "brainwashed" she would most likely agree. Which point of view of the two is rationally superior depends on the circumstances, but change in itself shouldn't have to be bad as it is, only if the change is to something inferior.
+simtexa Jack is resistant to change, but not against it entirely. what she was against, was change made onto you without your approval--shit people have been pulling on her all her life. you present your case, lay out the options, let me decide if i wanna change, then fine, i'll consider. you present your case & then proceed to force me to accept your views without letting me run through them myself, fuck you. she might not have expressed it explicitly, but that's how her brain works mostly when change is concerned, which is pretty much how most of our brains work when change is concerned. i talk to you, you like my views, you change, is one kind of change. i point a gun at your head, you wanna live so you follow my views, that is also change. but then, we can all see which kinda change is more desirable.
She's lives in her own hell if you don't save her from Grissom academy in me3
jack has one of the most beautiful romances
Mordin's helmet is so freaking awesome. Thane also got a nice one.
Thane is wearing a Recon Hood. Shepard can wear one just like it.
Lucas Liso Still dope. And its slightly different from the one shep can equip
Thane looks like Starlord (Guardians of the Galaxy)
Garrus has a pretty wicked helmet too
You probably wouldn't say that if you knew what vacuum did to exposed body parts.
"Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." -Kyle Reese
yeah funny that they put this line here. great stuff
...and it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are DEAD!"
1.21 Petawatts was another reference, but for Back to the Future.
Huh, 2 references to 80's time travel stories...
@@GhostLink92 Two references to sci-fi classics, not unfitting for a game series that takes notes from other sci-fi classics.
I did love how in this scene all the companions actually have something substantial to add indivudally. A lot of the time when your companions make a point they're almost (or completely) identical. In this they each give logical, unique points of view that match their personalities. Great mission.
Me2 squad mates were the best
Peter Cho here here
*Coughs* Jaco- *Coughs*
Yeah most definitely
Thane was my favourite member out of every me game
Indeed, the only exceptions being Jacob and Kaidan (for me)
I always found it funny that the paragon options support destruction but the destruction act itself is renegade and vice versa.
+Cellulanus The only paragon decisions that involves destroying anything is breaking a kid's gun during Garrus recruit mission, and destroying the Collector base. All others are either Renegade or non-moral. Rewriting the heretics is a paragon decision over destruction.
+The Destroyer I think he meant the "Destroy" ending of ME3, which is considered to be a renegade choice.
No, I'm referring to specifically Legions loyalty mission, and only that.
Morality system is Bullshit
Its paragon beacuse you create other individuals where they once were
"But Shepard, think about this. If you rewrite these geth, they'll join the others. Legion's geth will be stronger."
Okay, Tali, fine. You don't have to do the hard sell. I'll make Legion stronger, sure.
"Can we trust them not to attack us in the future?"
Can we trust the Quarians not to do the same thing?
Raidey It actually backfires in Mass Effect 3. Legion's Geth attack Quarians and fall under Reapers' influence if you reprogram them
@@Dorime3619 nope, its quarians who attack
@@Dorime3619 but in ME3 when you recruit them, they are stronger
Sentient Potato I side with the quarians and destroy the Geth. Me2 and Me3 tried to put the Geth in a positive light.
I'd be ready to sell my soul to see Jack's response to the Catalyst's choices.
I know I’m replying 8 years later so this would be amazing if you saw my reply, but I think Jack would go for Destroy. Control would remind her of Cerberus and she wouldn’t like the idea of using the Reapers as tools, and Synthesise may make her uncomfortable with the idea of being partly synthetic (like she loses part of herself). I’m going off of how I think she would analyse it.
@@joeywild2011 I agree that she'd probably go for Destroy.
@@TheBermudaMan I think she'd probably just shoot at Starchild.
@@TheBermudaMan Idk, Jack got really her good-willing nature back in ME3, would she be willing to destroy EDI and the Geth that are helping them? (and is a friend in EDI's case), idk
Destroy. She's be sad that Edi has to die in order to end the Reapers. But it's better then being like Cerberus(Control) or forcibly taking away part of everyone(Synthesis). She would be tempted to shoot star child but would most likely expect them to just continue the war ending all life. So she destroys the Reapers taking out the Geth and Edi. If she lives and recovers she apologizes to Joker for what happened to Edi. if she dies then Joker ends up thinking that Edi and the Geth dying was because of a mishap with the Crucible.
Legion will always and forever be completely awesome!
TetraCurse Ew
Uli'Nich vas Cyniad Not a fan of Legion then? Don't really see why that deserves an Ew though....you allergic to technology or something? o_0
TetraCurse I'm alergic to Geth
Uli'Nich vas Cyniad AH I see. They're not so bad......when they're not trying to kill you that is. I found collectors to be the most annoyi-*ASSUMING DIRECT CONTRO*- NO, GO TO HELL! xD
TetraCurse Well maybe but i rather kiss Harbinger
Mordin is one of the best written characters.
I love how in ME2 some squad members will simply put a breather mask over their face despite the fact that the lack of air pressure would kill them.
Right? Breathers are completely impractical. Frequently, in missions that require the use of breathers/helmets, the atmosphere (if there's any) is either unhealthy or outright toxic. Or in this case, deadly. Without air or gravity, you're basically exposed to a similar effect to the vacuum of space. Exposing ANY kind of skin in such a place would freeze them. That would be very unhealthy, I believe, specially in Kasumi/Miranda/Jacob's cases, in which they just use breathers and they are mere humans. Their faces would freeze in seconds. I don't know how asari physiology works, so I don't know what would be the effects on Samara.
@@devoradordelosmundos In Kasumi's case, I made it my (personal) head canon that the slightly opaque middle piece is surrounded by a completely transparent/invisible glass screen that forms a seal with the hood.
Can't say the same for the other breather masks, though, and I would think that generally, skin exposed to vacuum like Jack has is just a bad idea, period.
@@devoradordelosmundos I really dislike rebreathers too. I feel like in hostile environments, you gotta suit up. Even in normal combat, helmet and armor is always preferable. ME3 has the right idea. All squadmates suit up, and I can have them remove the headgear in conversations. Better for roleplaying purpose. They even made sleeker armors for squadmates who won't fit in bulkier traditional armor (like Liara's). Still, the helmets are left to be desired.
It gets worst with Jack. the crazy bitch is practically wearing NOTHING from above the hips. biotic demigod or not, no way she could survive such an environment dressed like that! regardless, i really can't get over the fact that they actually gave Shep a fully sealed helmet in such cases, yet only give most of your squadmates rebreathers.
I find the rebreathers in space thing to be ridiculous in this game, for most cases. However, to be fair in this case, I don't think the interior of the Geth ship is supposed to be a vacuum. Legion only claims they have little breathable air, but they still could have some sort of gas to create atmospheric pressure. Afterall, sound still seems to propagate inside the ship.
For Reprogramming: Mordin= 1
For Destruction: Zaeed, Jack, Tali, Jacob, Garrus, Miranda= 6
Neutral: Kasumi, Legion= 2
Neutral, but ponders the moral implications: Samara, Thane, Grunt= 3
To me, the moral implications in ME is the best part. If I could convince my friends and family to play, we would have the greatest philosophical debates.
For destruction, you can divide in three groups:
Because will make Legion's geth stronger: Tali, Jacob, Miranda
Because they are against brainwashing: Jack and Garrus (although Garrus also points that Legion's geth might be a problem, it seems that the similarity to indoctrination is what matters the most to him)
Because he hates geth: Zaeed
@@renanroman4231I mean Zaeed doesn't really tell his reason, for all we know he could be on the first group. Which would be on character: the geth can be a menace so why Risk? Just remove the menace for good
If you substitute geth for the reapers you get where everyone stands for me3 finale
I always bring Tali on this quest and Legion on hers. They are both perfectly designed for those missions. Also its hillarious to have an active geth with you during Tali's trial. xD
But when I expose Tali's people to that risk, it only seems fair to give her a say in geth matters.
I always bring Tali on Legion's mission too. I brought Legion on Tali's mission, but first the collectors came and kidnapped the crew. So during the suicide mission, I lost Kelly & Gabby. Tali's mission is fun with Legion, but it's a great way to loose some crew. Gabby can be on the ship in Mass Effect 3. Kelly will be on the citadel (have her change her identity or she'll die during the Cerberus coup and her name won't go on the wall). The longer you delay the suicide mission, the more you loose. Ken will join Gabby in death if you take too long, and then you just got Adams in engineering until Tali shows up (unless she dies because you didn't take the necessary steps to save both her people and the Geth. Destroying the Geth in Mass Effect 3 feels like the renegade option. The Quarians started the mourning war, you can't blame the Geth for defending themselves).
It's entirely possible to do them both together before your crew is kidnapped, if all the other Companion quests are done before you pick up Legion. xD
After Samara's mission, the illusive man writes in the summery: "Cerberus activities will not be affected further by presence of Shepard's team." It kinda implies Samara should be help last (or before acquiring Legion since the illusive man can't possibly foresee the Geth joining the team). The illusive man writes that in the mission summary regardless if you helped everyone else or not. "Cerberus activities will not be affected further by presence of Shepard's team," what about Tali?
I mean, if you want to put that much weight into such a simple line, sure? Doesn't actually matter when you do that one.
I'm not a big fan over continuity issues either
1:14 literally the ME3 endings
There's no brainwashing, their DNA is rewritten but they remain themselves with their minds and personalities in tact.
@@poopsie343 the reapers still get brainwashed in the control ending
@@chadedwards3676 well no, Shepard become the catalyst, he got a control of them, just like the catalyst before him
grunt's helmet is badass. why couldn't we toggle helmet options in this one? :(
+Brolly5 No air on the station full of geth who don't need it
+Twyllin I think he means for other missions.
Legion's lines at the very end are rather...haunting. Especially coming *from* a synthetic/AI.
2:25 Take away their fighting spirit, what else matters? I knew Grunt had to be a spiral xD
Not a spiral, just believing in honour in a fight to the death over being brainwashed into servitude.
Nice reference. SIMOOOOOOON
“However, Legions geth may become a problem.
Legion: I standing right here
If you rewrite the Geth, it gives a much greater boost to the friendly Geth in ME3. If you manage to win the Quarians and the Geth, the Geth Will be significantly stronger than if you destroy the station. That's why I always choose rewrite.
+Jack Ryan Actually if you achieve peace between Quarians and Geth in ME3 your total war assets is still the same no matter which option you chose here, the only difference is which side has more. Of course if you fail to achieve peace then the destroy/rewrite choice holds more weight.
+Jack Ryan
But in the meantime, the rewritten Geth make the collective stronger, which wipes out more Quarians by the time you get to the Rannoch chapter, making this a bad choice at first. Overall, the choice is dynamic: it starts bad when you contact the Quarians but can be good if you either choose the Geth or make peace, but bad if Legion died in ME2 or you save the Quarians. Rewriting them isn't necessarily good, you have to make it that way.
I just kill all synthetic life anyway.
AverageO Why? Two of the best characters are synthetic.
Throw it out the airlock!
Squadmates' opinions : Mordin > Garrus> Miranda > Tali>Samara >Thane> Kasumi>Jack >Jacob > Grunt > Zaeed.
Mordin's advice considered scientifically most persuasive , also , I've found Garrus comments most inspiring despite his badass nature.
some other thoughts? Let me know
Surprised at Kasumi's response and how many leaned toward destruction. Mordin is always great. Liara, conflicted but would lean toward letting em live, Wrex would let em live just to fight em later. Ashley def pro-destruction, Kaiden would say a few words that mean nothing cause hes boring as fck
wow , dude. You can perform inception already. Great imagination.
That was Samara not Liara. Liara probably would have had much better insight.
No, meant Liara, my thoughts on those not present. From ME3; James destroy. EDI, hmm, no idea but something interesting, logical, similar to Mordin. In ME3 she told bad joke then commented on adjusting her timing and i thought damn....shes developing personality. Floozy-bots in the future? Yes please.
Garrus speaks from past missions, From what he saw in the past from the Old Geth, and how Saran was indoctrinated
It really is a damn shame that hanging out with Legion beyond this mission essentially denies you the ability to save your whole crew from the Collectors. He’s so lovable.
Why is that?
@@zachariastsampasidis8880
Literally spoilers for the end of Mass Effect 2:
After recruiting Legion, you are able to access the Galaxy map ONCE and complete ONE mission before EDI forces you to leave the ship and the Collectors will kidnap your entire crew (minus Joker). This gives you precisely enough time to complete Legion’s Loyalty mission before then. For every mission you complete before starting the final mission, some of your crew will die. If you do not complete Legion’s loyalty mission, chances are he will die too.
Granted, Mass Effect 2 is the only of the three that offers a post-game, but you will be unable to revisit old missions to see Legion’s dialogue.
@@rusticgiraffe4262 Actually it’s dependent on how many missions you have left, I save Tali’s missions for after getting legion and still saved all the crew just make sure those are the only ones left to do.
actually as far as i know you can do up to 2 missions if you have them(dunno if its only loyalty), you can do legion and tali loyalty after you get him just fine and save everyone
Or you can use a save editor and uncheck Reaper IFF acquired
I like how everyone says "We shouldn't help Legion's geth, they could be evil" and Legion is standing right there!
Legion's not the type to take it personally.
Legion : The consensus is agreeing with your assessment
Guys, I've just realized, the heretics are indoctrinated. The methods may have been different but the endgame was the same. Think about it, the main aspects of indoctrination are:
-Viewing the Reapers in a religious way (they worship them as gods);
-Trusting enemies (the organics Benezia and Saren);
-And betray friends (monitoring the Geth's main faction, which, by the way, Legion states is very ilogical given that the Geth are programed to have the same goals, simply different methods depending on the calculation of the results, so while the heretics would ally themselves with the Reapers, they wouldn't distrust the rest of the consensus).
Also, throught out the mission, any dialogue that supports the "Rewrite" is the "Renegade" option, yet suddenly, at the end of it, it simply changes into the Paragon option ? Don't you see ? Because the Geth are based in Reaper technology, the Reapers, after taking in the Geth who thought following them was a good idea since everything in the galaxy was developing, and I quote Sovereign, "in the way they wished", they took their will to earn their place in the galaxy and twisted it into bloodlust against the organics, and then they made them isolate themselves from the rest of the consensus so that they would be willing to hurt the rest of the geth, wether it was by developing an improved virus that would enslave the entire race, or monitor all of the other units should there be the need of attack.
So in other words, by rewriting them, you're not brainwashing them, you're saving them. The Reapers were the ones who were killing who they were, we are the ones who are saving their identity.
Thats actually a really good theory and it fits your name
@@aleksamilosevic8792 thanks.
That's how I always viewed it. Unlike organics, it's possible to completely cure AI indoctrination. If I could have cured Saren or Benezia you can be damn sure I would have.
@@Jedislayer19 that's good to read.
Not to mention Reapers dont care about geth and will wipe them regardless once harvest is over, or use them as another collector race. Remade into their purpose
I never saw Thane in an environment that requires him to wear a breathing apparatus.
Needless to say, I was _really_ surprised.
To be fair for Thane every enviroment is one where he needs a breathing apparatus.
@@Limrasson oww
So is Mordin the only one who thinks it's better to rewrite them ? I'm gonna feel bad for doing just that.
I saw it more that because they would see the perspective of the non heretic geth and that they still have an option to go back if they "want" but they at least have the chance to "see the error of their ways" so to speak.
Unless it's unethical.
He does make a comment that rewriting the geth may be immoral.
@@ripLunarBirdCLH He seems pretty clearly leaning to rewriting, more asking if others thought it was immoral, maybe wanting to avoid another genocide associated with salarians.
@@ripLunarBirdCLH ME2 he is having a moral dilemma about the genophase, by the time ME3 comes along he admits it was wrong so by this point he's still on the fence about morality.
Almost everyone: rewriting the geth is immoral, just destroy them
Destroying the geth: awards 20 renegade points
???
bad and worse and you choose worse i guess. and plus it is technically an ethnic genocide for your own gain versus brainwashing for said gain
@@CrazyGamebino Doesn't really make sense though. Paragon and Renegade are how Shepard seems to other people, and most people agreed that taking out the heretics was better than rewriting them.
Yes renegade isn’t evil just pragmatic and cool
paragon and renegade ins't only about morals, it's also about damage and stuff like that, paragon goes for the least damage while renegade doens't care about it
Legion, to Zaeed and Kasumi: "I'm right here, my guy."
Legion: "Alert. This facility has little air or gravity. Geth require neither."
Modern human: "Don't tell me to wear a mask!"
Underrated comment
XD
You're going to need more than a mask in a near vacuum...
@@donquixote2072 in a Mass Effect game, that depends on whether or not your face is pretty I think. They tend to just put some glass covering over some of the squadmates, which... always struck me as a bit silly. No that's, that's not how that works, game...
Garrus' comments were the deepest and most lore relevant. That should have been explored further. This is why I was disappointed Daro'Xen's "reclaim the geth for the Quarians" angle was dropped as a way to take the conflict in ME3. I also love Legions response to thinking rewrite is unethical.
On the Geth though, how do they not achieve consensus? They are beings of pure, mathematical logic. Once they link up, they share experiences. They are now all viewing the exact same data through the exact same filters. The idea that they have values, which are somewhat based in emotion, is explored, as the Heretics think the ends justify the means. I think they should have used that more.
each geth do has different values reference that are not shared, each "program" will se the same situation from different perspectives, given interest in different matters, that are advantageous for each one of then, geths have self preservation "instinct" for example, they are willing to sacrifice thyself of course, but they do look forward for the integrity of their platforms and software's, each platform can have multiples programs, legion for example has more then 500, but each program has different origins, coming from different settings, having different values.
Lucas Melo That makes sense if we see them as having been programmed with different values based on their purpose, like in the Matrix. But Legion talks about them all being Geth as a whole with no individuals. The dichotomy should have been explored.
DownwithMarx the programs are self-aware, they don't grasp the meaning of individual because they only exist in presence of the many, they always refer thyself as "we" because if that is not a we, then there is nothing to be called intelligent thoughts, that is why legion is not a "i" but "we", because he is many programs, each one different of another, but only existing in coexistence, there is no "i" first, they only became aware (have enough intelligent to be so) when they are already a "we".
Lucas Melo
Correct, but Legion isn't always referring only to the programs in his platform.
DownwithMarx duh, all geth are connected with not only the programs of their platforms, but with all the geth around or connected with theirs servers so they can became more intelligent, but each program is a individual who only is self ware in the presence of many geths connected on the same time
How the fuck is Grunt supposed to see with this helmet?
Maybe there's a tiny camera somewhere on the outside of it and a viewscreen on the inside?
What, you never bothered to see how your team´s gear works?
Stellio Kontos I guess it never occurred to me to try on a Krogan helmet.
+Commander Shepard
Commander Shepard, why do you always punch news reporters? They're only doing their job!
+TheTillify I know your comment is a year old, but no one answered the question. His helmet works the same way as the other helmets that cover the eyes, there's an internal display. Very small cameras on the outside, screens on the inside.
Its funny how their main argument against it, that it would make Legion Geth stronger, is the main reason why I decided to rewrite them. Even back in Mass Effect 2, I could see the whole mess was far more the Quarian fault then the Geth fault. The non-heretic Geth had really never done anything wrong, they just defended themselves when it became obvious peace wasnt an option.
I'm glad I was able to bring peace between the two but if I had been forced to choose, I'd have sided with the Geth over the Quarian.
You do know that Tali would have committed suicide if you'd chosen the Geth over the Quarians, right?
yes i know but ... i dont pity people with weak mind...
At the time, I rewrote them too, but I destroyed them in the second run. The heretics didn't ally with the reapers to defend themselves (it's the good geth, in ME3, that did so, the ones that only want defend themselves). They did so because they thought of them as gods, and didn't care about organics.
Think about this: to broker peace between the 2 races, you need 5 out of the 7 points avaible. If you rewrite them you get 0, if you destroy them, you get 2. Why do you think this is? Because even if you rewrite them, deep inside the heretics still want to oppose organics and ally with the reapers. That's why you don't get points for the peace. The geth are less willing to make peace if you let the heretics return to the geth. What if, after the end of ME3 and in the future of the universe, the same heretics take over the good geth and wage war?
That's why in my opinion the better option is to destroy them here, even in a paragon route, and even if you can still make peace with the geth in 3. Not at that time, ofc, because we didn't know what would happen. But it is if you look back. It's the same as with the options with Rana, the asari scientsit on Virmire, who if you let her live in ME1 she kills a bunch of high ranking asari officers in 3 before committing suicide (so it's better to kill her back then). And same with Kelly Chambers, it's better for her (and the refugees) if you choose the renegade option to make her change identity so she lives.
Again, it doesn't make sense the first time, but in the second run you have the chance to make things perfect, even in the perfect paragon path, these 3 renegade choices are preferred.
giantWario Legion's geth killed Billions.Most civilian.They are no better than Quarians if you view Geth as ''people''.For me it's what Kasumi says.They are just fancy mechs nothing more
Geth did nothing worng
I wish they let you toggle the helmets. They're so awesome
I know. With Grunt's Muppet jaw, Garrus' Boba Fett helmet, and Zaeed's Fallout gas mask.
Me1 and 3 I always have the helmet settings on shame you couldn’t do so in 2
I love how not only are all your squadmates either excellent soldiers, scientists, biotics, or techys but they are all also philosophical in nature.
Tali convinced me to save the heretics o.O
Keelah! Liar!!!
so you like brainwashing people, okay.
Celio Hogane not people, geth
@@CelioHogane they won't even understand that they were brainwashed, so what's the problem?
@@user-vk9zj2kw6d - Well, I mean, the same could be said about *anything* that's been brainwashed, that's the whole point of brainwashing; like when the Reapers indoctrinate people, they don't know they're being controlled/influenced by an outside source or at least if they do, they believe in the cause wholeheartedly and without question i.e Saren, that's why we can convince him to abandon the Reapers during the battle of the Citadel in ME1, by breaking his programming so to speak
I love grunts helmet XD
Thank you so much for this video! It helped us a lot to reach consensus.
1:29 wow, deep
I like when you play this mission with Grunt on Renegade, when they discuss the ethics about rewriting and Grunt says to Legion "So it's not okay to punch a human, but it's okay to punch you?"
I think Geralt's "Evil is Evil" Quote comes to mind with this mission.
I like how Samara treats death and change the same way, symbolically speaking.
I really love these videos. I have played the game twice but I cannot see every possibility myself. Just great work! Thank you!
This is one of my favourite missions from ME2! Love the synthetic atmosphere, and Legion of course :D
Zaeed's... mask... must... resist laughing....
Unless I want my head blown up by assault rifle, ofc
I love how grunts mouthpiece on his mask jumps up and down when he talks 💕
I’ve never seen Mordin and Grunt with their masks on. Then again, I’ve always taken Tali with me for Legion’s loyalty mission
Morally speaking, I regret rewriting them. I'm playing through the series again before Andromeda releases. I guess I'll deal with my unethical mistake because I don't want to restart my game. Hopefully Legion would forgive me.
DarkVWolf Did he?
I told him that I regret rewriting them. He agreed. So I think he forgave me.
ye, I regret it too, but for whatever reason rewriting is the one to give paragon and destroying the one to give the renegade points. And if you don't have enough Paragon, you cannot unite the two races, which is what I wanted to do when I replayed the game
0:15
Damn it Kasumi!
Why do you have to be so damn hot??
I was too busy staring into Legion's beautiful eyes to even notice she was there.
Fjaloeat1 Eyes? He has one Optic camera lensflare.
Meh, Tali is hotter =P
@@Fjaloeat1 Have you ever noticed that the only unique thing about legion (physically) is that he is the only geth with eyebrows
I am more concerned on how the hell does she breathe ?
Amazing editing. Very uncommon for Mass Effect 2 conversation videos, and much appreciated.
Good job splicing the various responses
I love how Mordin in ME2 was already doubting his choice about the Genophage, just asking what Shepard's thoughts are on that. Like he's mid-looking for the answer even before ME3
Tali: "can you trust them not to attack us in the future?"
Shepard: "would you prefer I commit genocide on them like your people love to do so much?"
there is information in the books, and from bioware. The geths did commit a genocide in the war
One way or the other, all the geth will die once Shepard shoots the red tube..
that was really nice vid, thnx for uploading!
Ugu Jack is so based and cool~
I always choose rewrite. Not just for the bonuses to ME3, but because it just feels right. Even the companions don't really give a shit other than kill them by blowing them up so they stay true to themselves. However if you rewrite them, sure their personalities and ideologies change, but what stops them from learning the truth on their own anyways? If they are all on the cusp of sentience then they should be able to be persuaded to see other alternatives by introducing new variables some time in the future. This argument always reminded me of how the Catalyst in ME3 thought there was only one option to the organic/synthetic crisis until the Crucible allowed new variables to be introduced.
They are just robots, it doesnt matter if they get terminated.
@@tassel4713 the entire trilogy makes an effort in showing how synthetics are more than "just robots", but ok
@@Drexaan i know what bioware was trying to do but there is nothing that makes these robots alive. They may simulate it but they are just high tech robots.
@@tassel4713 As far as I know, you're not actually alive, but rather a simulation of life, therefore it doesn't matter if I kill you, because you're just a robot, right? I mean, I can just go ahead and call everybody I don't like "just robots" to justify a genoci- I mean, Termination, of everybody who I dislike. There's no way that people other than me could be alive and sentient... there's no way...
@@Ropetrick6 god says otherwise
Thanks for taking the time to make these sort of videos. I know it must have been tedious to do.
That final line Legion states. Gives me goosebumps everytime
Did anyone else notice that Jack, whose supposed to be the mean sociopath has the kindest answer? ....in her own way. XD
1:36 I never saw Thanes awesome mask. That looks so cool.
I like how Grunt as simple and brutish as he is gets it 100% in his own way
I fucking love everyone's different takes on it that show so much character.
Ma nigga Garrus
1:17
I know right?!
Great compilation!
Also, an amazing video to see everyone's space-helmet.
I thought Grunt was a robot! xD
the "they're just machines" response for Shepard yields some very interesting philosophical dialogue from Legion.
This is the only mission when you can hear Legion say "assuming control"
I love how the companions hit the deck when you aim your gun at them. :D I always find it funny, not sure why though.
1:14 "Wow, great choices. Genocide or brainwashing."
*flashes forward to Control and Synthesis endings*
Why are these choices paragon and renegade options?
"SHEPARD COMMANDER!"
Grunt is so cute!! I love his armor.
I am just here to appreciate fantastic quality of dialog
Shepard: -What's the difference between this picture and this picture?
Thane: -It's the same picture.
Damn. Zaeed, Thane, Grunt and Garrus have awesome helmets. I never knew because I always use Tali for this mission and I usually use Jack and Kasumi anywhere else because they're a good pairing
The rest of the crew only wears an advanced facemask
Garrus : "That sounds dangerously close to indoctrination"
No, Garrus, you're mostly right but no. That isn't close to, it's EXACTLY the same as Indoctrination!
Correct. The most evil thing to do is to brainwash an enemy and send him against his former allies. This is broken logic on most fundamental level.
War is war. By attacking your enemy gave you excuse to defend, even by killing the enemy if it's necessary. But killing doesn't mean cruelty and torture. And it most certainly doesn't mean brainwashing. There is a difference between killing an enemy but still respecting them and using them, brainwashing, bending them to your will and humiliating them.
I can understand killing in times of war. But that is still miles away from unnecesary cruelty.
Disagree. And I feel like the quarians made the same mistake. The geth aren't organics and it's not fruitful to apply logic that would apply for organics to alien minds.
The quarians assumed the geth would immediately start a slave rebellion because that's what organics would do.
And this carries through to this decision. Players decide, with no in game evidence, that the geth would choose death over being rewritten.
Nice little Terminator reference at the end.
"If our personality can be changed at the drop of a hat, then what makes us... us?"
-Claptrap
Personally, I chose to blow them up. Being religious myself, I'd rather die fighting for my beliefs than forced into another religion, or lack thereof.
So do you die for what? for idea of that maybe that there is some deity or is it just that you will fight for your beliefs no matter what?
please don't get this as an insult i'm just curious.
The belief itself. Jesus and the judeo-christian God if to be completely honest, though to clarify, I would only fight on the defensive for my beliefs.
Wow, I didn't think Jack would be the one to share my exact thoughts on this.
Love how thane and Samara shared the same opinion, replaying Legendary edition again so here i am drawn to random mass effect vids again lol.
I feel like Jack is the most down to earth character in the game, she is like yeah I've been through a lot of shit and expect bad things to happen but she has a certain sense of empathy. She wouldn't want to be hurt or controlled so that's why she fights so hard, she understands that others wouldn't want that either she just isn't going to let it happen to her.
I like Legion's comment at the end: "They do not feel pity, remorse or fear." Sounds like another rampaging killer robot I'm familiar with...
Dun-dun dun dun-dun
"No pity, no remorse, no fear!" is a Black Templar space marines chapter of the Imperium of Man in Warhammer 40k universe. The crusading Teutonic warrior-monks in power armors.
I see this as a reference)
Pretty sure Jim Cameron dropped that first.
@@LanIaFortroSha I am pretty sure that 40k was before terminator, 1980+
Frankly, in my opinion, rewriting the Geth is the best option. It adds to the strength of the Geth forces in ME3. Whatever option you pick, the heretics are dead anyway. Better for them to fight for the good of the Galaxy than to fight for something that doesn't even like them. If you can forge an alliance between the quarians and the Geth, it makes things even better.
Except on the flipside, that results in more dead Quarians. The combined fleet score doesn't change, one goes up and the other goes down.
@@shadenox8164 True. The choice of this mission only matters if you destroy the Quarians or the Geth. If you rewrite them, better to let the Flotilla burn. If you destroyed them, finish the job.
Well, at least considering only the War Efforts values. Moral and companion bias is another thing.
i really like jack's response, i completely agree with her.
Gotta love the range of responses from your squadmates, and how accurate they are to each character. A lesser game would simply have slight variations on the same sentiment regurgitated with a unique inflection by each character.
Yeah, I like Tali's version best. Much less "death" than everyone else's.
When I did this, I wandered my room for five minutes debating it. When I finally made my decision, it was done out of strategy, assuming the true Geth would be allies, and making my ally stronger. Neither one is morally right.
I like how the squad mates responses are edited like they're all having a conversation
@Epzo1 Happened on one occasion during an actual flight. Three cosmonauts aboard Soyuz 11 died when their ship lost cabin pressure during reentry. Skin is not what you should worry about, but rather any body part with exposed fluids. Cardiac arrest will kill you before anything else, as the oxygen in your blood is siphoned from your veins. Even if you do manage to survive, you will almost certainly succumb to the bends afterwards, assuming your lungs weren't shredded during decompression.
For me the best game is ME2... i have more partners... and legion :D
Glad you're happy :D
This answers how each member feels about the finale in me3 whether to destroy/synth or control
@Zuriki09
Ironically, from what I've read, rewriting the Heretics counts as a strike against your chances to make peace between the geth and the quarians. It doesn't make it impossible by itself, though; it just means you have to get more of the other choices right to get enough of the "points" that make the situation salvagable.