Taxation is theft....How do we know? Make it voluntary and see who still pays every year. Most players hate mythic + and raiding....How do we know? Make the same level of gear available in other ways like delves and see how many people still plays mythic + and raids for "the fun and challenge". People like delve content....How can we know? compare at the end of the season the % of players that got to tier 8 and stayed there compared to the % that went all the way to tier 11 and killed big bad even though there is no extra gear loot above 8 for the fun and challenge.
I'm now a solo player after years of raiding and dungeons I just couldn't stomach it anymore, the gatekeeping, the elitism, the ridiculous people, and all for what? nothing more than ego and vanity with gear no one cares you have, that within months becomes nothing more than a transmog piece. If I fail in a delve it's all on ME!! not some ridiculous shenanigans that happen in raids and dungeons with some really downright disgusting people.
same here, delves do feel like a blessing now: can be (and are preferably) soloed, no timer, no mdi wannabe pros, no flaming over even the siliest mess up, and they do give a sense of personal progress at your own pace, can even dig up your long forgotten alts you were scared to pug on since legion or so, and if you run out of lives you can always restart it and try again and in worst case curse at yourself only :p its still a mmoRPG, let ppl play it however they want ? if they either nerf them into oblivion because the elitist herd of rabid sheep complains they are "too ez" because they are speedrunning them with their "blaster groups" for "free" starter gear for their 10th alts/rerolls to " spam" keys, OR add some super competitive component like timers/ dps rankings/leaderboards/meta comps, they have won it all. this coming from an eternal filthy casual who has been dabbling in both mythic raids, key pushing, all the things apart from competitive pvp pretty much. i (half) joked in DF once that the day boralus is back as m+ im done or at least take a long break, and it actually IS back, perfect timing :p its not even about wasting time, wipes or anything, a lot of ppl do have busy real lives and little time for gaming, myself i got the time, im also fine with wipes but ppl cant even take a wipe, 2 or 10 anymore :p raid pugs are, "oh noes, not an oneshot? is this progress run, got no time for it, just normal/hc?" or "KICK FAILERS", "KICK LOW DPS" which they actually do. back in WoD everyone hates now, you could pug things like mythic HFC, not 2-3 first bosses IF your precious parses are "good enough" but up to xhul even, a friend was progressing mannoroth with a weekly pug, not sure if he did but it was doable even if a lot runs were awful and it was disband after one wipe like almost everything now :p at the same time you could get a random mythic loot chest every 2 weeks for doing some hc bosses (it was RANDOM; you rarely got a true upgrade anyway), and it was.. fine? delve loot is random too btw, im actually still after the candlestick trinket higher than adventurer track despite my main doesnt even need most delve gear anymore apart the vault slots, just because i like it, and it has the best flavor text ever, i dont want to replace it with any other trinket even if its not the best :p but ofc the loot chest keys are so limited, i even filled the seasonal bar to the point i could buy the keys from the "murloc" vendor, only to find out its probably one time deal of 3 per account. ". the moral of the story is to never trust fake murlocs (wink wink :p) its not even about gear, but it should be ok to get a gear reward better than a greenieat the end right? angry ramblings of an old "noob" probably, but its about time to speak up that the emperor is naked shall we? :p
@@draloalo interesting point hehe, who forces ppl though? only curious, nothing offensive at all. the dictator gm/raid leader/officers because there is some bis item there (the dagger maybe, i honestly dont know, not reading any bis gear/ spec tier lists or anything on purpose in tww at all) ppl absolutely need to have, or they will get benched if not having it, or the raiders "force" themselves because they wont get a "high" parse over that 1k dps difference if not having that item? the problem is again, elitism/meta slavery/too serious competition. noone should be forced into any unwanted content, no matter if its pvpers/mythic raiders/m+ pushers/solo enjoyers and all other "filthy casuals",noone. the weird thing is, the very top players dont really seem feeling "forced" into any content, they will do anything to compete to be the best of the best, those are the only ones actually forced to squeeze every 0.001% to get there. and if its literally about some specific gear bits farm, there is always a possibility to group run them in the usual "blaster groups", there is even a LFG section only for those :p but yea glad there is a lot of ppl who actually do them for fun and who hope they will keep that content relevant, and not only listen to the "elite" because it "takes too much time" to speedfarm.
It is all done with a purpose , boosting services, the gatekeeping is often fueled by boosters that are designing this kind of situations just so they can charge gold or real money for a +10 key spot lol
Bro, I’m a dad! I don’t have time to sit in a big ass raid or try to get people together to try and raid. I don’t have time for this crap! I also don’t have time to get yelled at about how I’m not no life mythic plus mechanics, I just wanna play the game with my friends get gear and PVP on my time and at my own pace
im not even a dad and i dont want to sit in a raid for 2-3 hours. I rather play the game than hear people fight because they cant do mechanics or because dps is low.
agreed. s much as i want to raid I have zero time to do so anymore, and find mythic + to just be boring. The whole point of delves was for the solo player to be able to have an avenue to get gear
@@groupnate Then MMOs ain’t for you, bud. These games are always a grind fest, as they should be. The idea that WoW should have solo content that’s easier and gives better gear than much of the end game content, means you don’t want to play an MMO. You want a co-op or single player experience with an MMO-like gearing process.
@@CraZeKllutchy That isn't grind, my dude. That's just friction for the sake of breaking the community. There is no world where it should take 4+ hours to complete an organized raid, and that's only if you're successful. Organization and having the numbers should make the raid easier, not harder. This is another reason why Classic feels so good.
@@networknomad5600 I can agree with you on the the point that raid requires too much organization and is too challenging for the average player. I think Classic feels good not because it has solo content, it feels good because it’s not overwhelming and exhausting to do end game content. I just think delves create a gearing imbalance that puts a bandaid over a large issue with WoW. Solo content isn’t the best way forward, simplifying the end game is.
The only people complaining about delves are the people who craft their personality around "I'm a raider / I'm a high level M+ runner, and that makes me better than you"
For me, delves are difficult. I've been playing for over 15 years, but apparently, I've been playing wrong. I'm amazingly happy that I just got through a level 7 delve. I haven't been able to repeat it yet, but I'm proud of myself. I'm proud of earning higher level gear from delves because they are a challenge.
You are who Delves were designed for, myself included. Those who are challenged by Delves progression and are suitably rewarded for their effort, just as M+ and raid players are rewarded suitably for theirs. There’s room for both in Wow, it doesn’t have to be either or
I’m a Paladin tank at a 599 gear score and I switch between level 7-8 delves depending on the toughness of it they are not as easy as some other people are claiming they are. It took me five deaths on the boss at the end to finish one of the delves in the spider zone in level eight it was rough.
@@lennoxraynewood2741 you can try brann healer if you did not still. I was sweating on my 600 ench shaman untill i switched to heal brann. i was clearing delve8 even when i was 570 with kiting, control, a lot of sweating but in any loot if i make any mistake - 3-4 seconds of slowness and i am dead. I switched brann to healer today and i just breezed through delve not even waiting for ANY cds before ANY pack. Just pay attention to potions that he throws - they heal A LOT.
As someone who plays 8 toons on a weekly basis, I truly appreciate how delves allow me to gear the characters I don't raid/ run keys with. It's a really great season so far for people with many characters :3
You literally needed to run one M+ per week per alt. I've been gearing all classes since Legion and they always had KSH and top gear with very little time investment.
I agree with you, majority of delve criticism I've seen has come from wanting to gatekeep. I am so, so happy for delves myself, I used to tank mythic+ to gear and then raid but doing delves instead has breathed life back into the joy of tanking for me. Will probably never do mythic+ again as long as delves let me gear up for raids.
@@mistakai4226 Yes, if the Mythic+ player participation numbers drop, they are gonna blame it on Delves even though Mythic+ players are using Delves to gear up for Mythic+.
@@nuggyfresh6430 just like anything else, if you exhaust the content you can choose to stop wherever you like. I usually get geared and then switch to casual stuff like mog farming and doing other activities. Then I clear the weekly raid with my guild. It's not as much about the raid as it is about hanging out though.
Delves are not giving out that much loot. Beyond that delves had to be leveled and i got almost no gear from having to level brann and the delves. They give trash gear and now I keep getting mostly trinkets. People who raid just need to focus on what they want to do and not gripe about other path ways.
@@chokonma3420 its 606. By no means good gear. Its entry lvl for basic low lvl mythics and raid. It does not give you good gear. Even bounty 610 gear. How you gonna upgrade it with 2 runed crests per high lvl delve? People got it backwards. Delves dont drop enough crests. They are not a legitimate way to build your gear up. They just give you entry lvl epics to get you rdy for low lvl mythics. They do not replace mythics or raiding for gear at all. They are like a mythic 2 then taking 15 hours of delves to upgrade a single item up to 616 where it will max out. What is that like mythic 6? And cannot be upgraded past that ever. Make higher delves like 11 drop more crests and hero track gear. Without that, delves will always be gimped.
@@chokonma3420 The Delves bountiful loot table isn't any where close to the loot table of gear you can get from M+ dungeons or normal/hero/myth Raids. Delve gear isn't even close to as good as those and certainly isn't replacing them.
Delves are perfect, shut up let me play solo, this is like visions of nzoth with more variety and more speed, if u want play with others go, dont ruin the life of players who dont have time to play long raids with wipes and dungeons with leavers and bad ppl.
But can you see it from another person's perspective maybe? Imagine that YOU had to clear raid and all m+ dungeons in order to complete your Delves? How would that make you feel? People don't want to be forced to do content (which they think is boring), in order to play the content they like.
@@draloalo how are you forced to do delves? you can still farm the traditional way?! but with delves you have faster gear so you can enter m+ faster, how is this bad?! You are just complaining to complain at this point
@@randomstuff-td1jl yes that's their only point and is completly wrong. "Oh but you have to do delvves to do RAids or M+" i have no ideia how they raided or did M+ before this exp, if this is their claim.
@@draloalo Are you replying to the right comment? Nobody is 'forced to do content'... That's *literally* the point of delves existing in the first place, so people AREN'T forced to do content (being M+ and raids)
Oh no! Filthy casuals running around in Champion 4/8 gear! *ITS OVER! THE GAME IS TRASH! HOW DARE THEY!* Blah blah blah..... Its the same people who are *TOXIC AF* in M+ which is why I refuse to do it.
Oh I was doing Stonevault earlier. Smooth run. But I accidently shoulder bumped a pack because I was collecting the orbs and I overcompensated. Geez, after that the healer didn't care about healing me after. M+ gets toxic as hell for 1 error.
After literally 10 years im back to wow… now im a father with a lot more life responsability than before…. Im so so so happy to be able to play the game in my own way in my own time… Thanks blizzard. Not only for the delves but for everything else u did to help us to play the game ❤
@@CraZeKllutchy Why shouldnt he be able so play solo if he wants to? There is so much toxicity and drama in M+ that i personally try do minimize how many m+ i need to do just for the vault. Im sick to spend 1,5h just to get a team going and then to have 1 wipe and eveyone just leaves ~~
@@CraZeKllutchy when they announce a chronicle for solo players with a mode for solo players i except that content for solo players, I don't give a Fu k about sweets or top players i don't like them at all, if they want to push m+ and raids go for it but if i have the chance to get heroic gear as solo let me get it, doesn't bother the sweets at all,but in same time@Blizzard ruined they solo mode making it party mode and this is just dumb.
Delves feel great because theres no toxic bs from other try hard players that have no life and no longer enjoy a VIDEO GAME, simple as that. Theres plenty of challenge, variety, and insane amount of ways to make more or improve or change current ones. Players ruined M+ like most things in wow, devs do have a hand, but its always toxic players that actually do the damage.
@red2977 Yes this is true, but most people usually just do delves with friends or solo. But indeed quite a bit are toxic. But I don't believe it's the majority, just the loudest. Still find a lot of really cool, chill people just playing the game, but they usually don't yell like the toxic folk do :/
As a player who doesn't particularly enjoy the often toxic group content, delves have been a revelation. Myself and my friend go in enjoy ourselves and don't have to deal with all that toxic crap.
@@iuliuslovin37 I wouldn't mind had they added heroic level delves say tier 12+ but I do think mythic tier gear should be raid only. the entire mythic+ dungeon system can be deleted for all I care, the entire community is so filled with toxic people that they would deserve it, but then again maybe m+ keeps these people quarantined to their little corner, away from the rest of us.
@@SoteksChunkyProphet-dg7io Mythic raid gear shouldn't be a think! Mythic is anyway for World First crap. Just have Heroic Raid and Delves give the best gear, then in Mythic raid you only have transmog that you unlock! Make the gear from Mythic raid very unique and cool! So it can be only for the challenge is providing and for the transmog to do this content! Then you will have the true people who want to do Mythic Raid
As a DPS i never even tried to queue for mythics and I've been playing since TBC. It's just too much friction and there are huge waiting times. I'm happy that i can finally play a DPS and get decent gear.
Delves are great! If raiders and mythic + players are whining because now people don't want to join them, it is there fault for not being welcoming of new people to those modes.
As a raider, any raider who says this is bad is dumb as hell. I pugged normal 8/8 the first week. the normal raid is so easy, probably about as easy as group t8 delves, so they have no place to complain about gatekeeping. Because if we were going to close the gates on casuals, normal raiders would be out as well. But ignoring all that, I think delves are a great just on their own and as a stepping stone for people who want to get into raiding. If you want to solo a t8 delve you actually have to pay attention the the mechanics of the mobs which only is going to help people practice for an actual raid. We should be getting as many people as possible to feel invested in end tier content, if that means giving solo casual players normal tier gear... good. I'm also not sure who these raiders are that are complaining. every raider i know loves delves and the amount of gear they give. Gearing up alts has never been better.
Great discussion! As a 100% disabled person with only one usable hand (left side semi paralyzed) , I had to give up mythic raiding and I can barely do heroic raiding, so I have to out gear my hunter just to maintain parity with the folks in my guild… while I can play all day, the strain and pain reduces my game time to the same as a person that works, has a family, and/or is in school… delves help me get there… so I’m a big fan of them!
@@ElevatedLevetator I use a Logitech mouse with 12 buttons on the side plus the add on GSE (Gnome Sequence Enhancer) which helps with st and are basic rotations… luckily the three strokes only effected my left side and I’m right handed… I taught myself farming leather, crafting and vendoring so I could buy that long boi AH mount… it took a while but I still do pretty good.
People are enjoying delves as a progression path because they are not bound to the schedule constraints of other people. Not much in the game is a challenge for people who play well, and I think the happy medium is scaling the difficulty to match the player skill/gear. I would love to see this system applied to M+ as I would like to push my character to the limits and learn, but I wanna do it on my own time. If people think that group content should be the end all of WoW, maybe they should make their groups more appealing to be in.
Delves give people who aren't in big guilds a chance to get gear on par with normal raid gear. I don't see why people are so butt hurt. Let people enjoy the same YOU enjoy the way they want to. It's not 2004 anymore 🎉
Exactly, also it's only normal tier gear. It's not like it's heroic or mythic so what the hell is the problem. Normal raid is even easier to pug than delves are so if anything the normal raiders have it easier.
Everyone needs to talk to themselves honestly. I stopped raiding in LK because guild drama. I've been a solo player ever since. I eventually burned out in Cataclysm but came back in Legion when I asked myself "what is fun?" and then decided "If something isn't fun, I'm not going to do it." Do this. Find out what is genuinely fun about this game and do that. If you're a raider and you hate that I can get raid level gear, how does that hurt you? Is it because you don't do raids for fun, but you do it as some kind of macho show of superiority? Then I'm happy to keep doing delves for gear just because you don't know how to be happy. If you prefer to gear in raids, do raids. I'm not hurting you. If your guild replaces your raid slot with a Delver, your guild is full of assholes and you shouldn't play with them. DO WHAT IS FUN. I hate that it needs to be said out loud.
back in my day I had to walk up hill in the snow just to get to the summoning stone to a Raid to get a chance at gear. Fuck the elites, WoW is making the game accessible to everyone
God forbid anyone gets some decent gear without having to be bossed through group content by the sort of idiot that makes people not want to do group content. 🙄
Stressing yourself for about an hour through an m+ dungeon with pugs, explaining every single thing just so one player leaves at the last boss after 2 wipes. And you get NOTHING for it, absolutely NO-THING. Delves are a gift from the gods honestly.
I thought the whole point of delves were to allow solo players to gear decently. If this also allows them to gear to join raids, if they choose, then awesome. It's pathetic if people are butthurt over this.
Delves have done the opposite for, and for the first time in 20 years, I'm interested in end game mythics and raids. I have been playing Wow since launch in 2004, and always been one of those quiet solo players for almost all of that time. I've never before really participated in the end game grind or other activities, and most dropped off as each expansion went along. Delves have changed that, and I can't wait to do the weekly content for that next bit of gear upgrading. That's inspired me to start getting into mythics and raids, so delves have opened up the game for me.
Nothing is being ruined.. This is literally the problem with wow.. So many complainers and they are the ones who actually ruin the game long term cause they are so damned loud and frequent. Blizzard thinks they represent the player base and change good and interesting features and ruin them for the rest of us
As a person coming back to the game after two expansions, delves are not too easy. I am still trying to complete 1 t8 bountiful delve. Don’t know how people steam roll the t8 bountiful delves.
Start your own group for a specific Bountiful Delve Tier 8 and call it something like "T8", you will have a full group in about 1 to 3 mins. If you only need a tank or a healer change the listing name to that, then you proceed like a typical dungeon and you can spam your T8s in a chill environment. People are pretty positive during these
Tank specs make it face roll but for squishy classes it boils down to healer bran the meta curios and just blasting cds killing a pack and waiting for cds to do the next one give or take.
The tips I can give is this. Use brann as a healer and just keep going into bountiful delves and pick up the mysterious curios to give him xp. Doesn't matter if you can't finish the delve, just get him as much xp as you can. The more levels he gain, easier it will become. Use the healing pots on the ground sparingly. Don't rush over all of them, but try to take 1 at a time when you need healing. Porcelain arrowhead and amorpheus relics are good. try to aim for them. The delve itself. Go slow and try to pull single mobs out to you, and don't rush in and fight huge packs at a time. Pull and hide behind things to force them to come to you. If there are two nasty mobs after eachother. Just wait for cooldowns again before the second mob.
well atm heroic raiding is 10 times faster 10 times easier then doing say a +4 even in m+, player quality this season is worse then i have seen in a decade and i havenmt seen this many keys be depleted since well m+ was introduced. dont knwo what it is with the players/pugs, but they are fucking godawefull
@@eXpr3sI think it’s a combination of returning players that don’t know how to play m+ and the m+ level squish. 12-14s used to be the slog area you avoided because that started eclipsing people’s skill level, now those are 2-4. I healed a 4 Mists last night and only me and the tank kicked or cc’d anything. It was running around the second boss screaming PLEASE cc the stupid fox!
@@eXpr3s There are way more new and returning players than almost ever before. TWW S1 already have more M+ samples not even 2 weeks into the season than the entirety of Season 1 Dragonflight(or any other season for that matter). WoW players need to have more understanding of these players, specially on the lower level keys.
@@keithb6344 I think new players is also a problem here as I have had a few friends who NEVER played WoW pick it up with this expansions release and I spend half my time in game now explaining how everything at 80 works, what addons to use etc.
@@pandaabear6762 yeah i mean i get there will be new players, but to the level that if you are lucky you Will maby at best time 1/20 or so, its not fun waiting Quing for 3 hours straigh to get into 1 key that disbands after 5 minutes becaus people dont know how to press a single button on their keyboard. I mean Thats what m+ pugging is atm, its at best 1 good run every 8 hours
If they nerf delves, I'm out... Unsubbed and out... For once they give introverted players something to chew into. And sweaty gatekeeping crybabys are trying to change it??
Delves max out at 606 or 610 if you get a bounty. It takes 15 runed crests to upgrade a single item 3 ilvls. You get 2 crests per delve above 8. Meaning 8 delves per upgrade. Thats likely at least 2 hours farming per upgrade. To maxout delve gear it would take months when a mythic+ will just drop it higher ilvl if you can do it. You cant efficiently upgrade the delve gear to be as good. Especially since if you want runed crests for upgrades, the mythic is much quicker and will drop gear thats better anyway. Im dissappinted in delve gearing honestly. It gives you a good start but its not a way to gear up like mythics are. So you are still forced to do mythics, nothing really changed .
to be fair guys that better Ilvl EQ than we have ever had access to ever! This is massive for us and if we lose out on the 610's we actually have to M+ :(
I like delves because it gives back that ‘chat room with activity’ feel of vanilla. I can do an activity with family, and not feel it’s removing me from my own gameplay loop.
Delves allow me to REGULARLY participate in Guild raid nights. I don't do Mythics, and am I geared enough that I am able to Raid and get the remainder of high level pieces through the raid. In my experience, the Mythic+ players wayyy outgear me, and are usually the stars of the raid, and I'm okay with that.
people forget that Delve were advertise as solo content..not as "gearing alternative for raider/m+" it was made for the majority of players who play solo because lets face it..more than 75% of wow player are anti-social XD
I have not tried delves yet but I believe delves need to be end game. playing the game Solo needs to be meta for some players like my self. I LOVE NOT NEEDING OTHERS TO GET GEAR , fuck you and go raid get bored and quit like every other time.
You want a single player rpg then....why not just play many of the numerous rogue-lites or ARPGs that exist? The heart of MMO's are communities, Blizzard has already stripped that down to its barest bones with sharding, etc. you should have to rely on interaction with players in the world to reach higher heights in MMOs.
@@jamescollins1124M+ is so toxic I want nothing to do with it, most interactions are pretty terrible in wow to the point I ignore the community out side my guild and server. The wow community isn’t that great and Blizzard has noticed this and has taken steps to remedy the problems but to little to late.
I'm a heroic raider and I love delves. I was trying to gear up and alt and I went into looking for raid did the whole thing and got zero drops. I can do like four delves in the same amount of time and actually get drops.
The gear ilvl caps out at tier 8 delves and its only 603. The trinkets are complete dogshit The only gear delve players are getting is a single 616 piece from a vault per week. This is gatekeeping of the highest degree
Delves are the only reason i came back to wow, absolutely love them. I do them solo & take my time, im a much better player because of Delves. No complaints
Played a lot of group content during WOLTK. Core group broke up due to life. Tried coming back to group during BFA and it was so toxic. I get toxic at work, don’t need it during relaxation gaming time. Enjoying delves as I can do what I want when I want. Maybe delves will force a bit more chill into groups.
Delves are great as they are. I'm a solo player with a full time job. I like being able to get good gear. I even try to do raid finder once in a while. Now Raid Finder loot rules is what they need to fix. Nothing irritates me more than someone rolling need and winning gear and they're already wearing higher level gear gear. I had a guy roll on a 593 and he was sporting 619. I asked him if i could get the item to replace a 550. He laughed and DEed the item right in front of me.
Oh ffs. The mythic and raiding crowd have been feeling so superior for years and now the solos get some equal gear they throw their dummies out the pram. Grow up for gods sake. Not everyone has time to M+ or Raid. Most who solo delve won't interfere with your precious content anyway as a good majority are gitgudders and folks don't want to deal with that now. It's nice to have some decent gear without having to put up with gitgud bullshit. Higher level tiers of delves are our M+ if we want the challenge. I totally agree with your comment of "if you don't like a part of the content, then don't do it" I'm probably the worst PVPer ever so I avoid it like the plague, but don't shit on folks who love it, it's their part of the game they enjoy the most whilst getting decent gear too
@@angelsenvy2282 is getting good gear a problem? It's not like you get the best gear from delves, you get that from high end Mythics, so god forbid that, people unable to invest countless hours into the game gets some entry level end game gear.
Delves are great! They're a breath of fresh air to the (what I think is) stale raid/dungeon gear progression. Obviously, there are folks who love raids/M+/PvP but they're not for me, outside of some LFR (if I hear the raid is good). Personally, I agree that allowing players to get Coffer keys before the season started was a mistake, but then the reason so many people saved their keys was because that's what the meta players said to do, and if you're not meta, you're a scrub. I don't get however how people are struggling for crests, I'm swimming in the first 2 tiers of crests (can't remember what their actual names are), it's valorstones I'm struggling to get and that has slowed my gear progression down, massively, and that's good. I don't want to be fully ilvl 616+ and steamrolling everything, I like delves because they (depending on class) make you think about how you approach the delve on higher tiers. They make you think about CC and interrupts and LoS breaks. Obviously, once you know the strat or you're a Blood DK, you walk them but but the initial challenge is great and it beats trying to keep up with a tank in M+ or having insults thrown at you if don't want to zerg a dungeon. TLDR; Delves are awesome. Don't allow Coffer keys to drop before season start or at least cap it to 3 or something and buff valorstone drops EVERYWHERE.
I love devles and i wish they scaled even higher. I think m+ are way to toxic, its like "2500 rating to join my +3" or one wipe and the tank leaves. So delves and raiding are a perfect combo
Delves help a lot in saving time for me to get geared to pop into higher mythics without rolling the die on pugs when I only get maybe 2hrs to play each night on a working week. The amount of time to difficulty is still there on higher delves so the rewards feel satisfying as opposed to dropping 20-30+ mins on a higher mythic that might get botched.
Too much gear? Delves has 1 item that is equivalent in value to raid gear and that is hero track Fate Weaver. You can't get Myth gear from a Delve and they barley give Guilded Crests. If anything more so with crests a Delve should have an option to get the highest tier for taking the levels higher. An 11 was suppose to be as hard as the Mage Tower, so why not let people get Guilded Vrests for doing a Delve at a 10 or 11
I think those people are missing that delves are dropping or giving those dungeon trinkets or sweet gear geared towards raids/dungeons, a lot of it is high ivl and thats enough. I just do delves and my only wish for an improvement would be for more variety in the gear particularly in the transmog dept. But im thinking they dont want to do that?
Raids suck and are why many people quit. Watching someone who is in the right guild, who never plays, gets gear dumped every six months when they log in for two weeks. Makes all the work a person does pointless. At least delves take time for the player. Earning the keys. Maybe make only solo delves give gear. So it’s earned. Want to keep more players? Make raiding optional for progression
The only legitimacy to any claims of progression is this is now SOLO content vs in the past, group play was required for just about everything. Will this kill LFR, M+, or regular raiding? The real question should be what actually motivates people to play. If gear is the only reason to play anymore then it's a no wonder this game is continually flopping over outside the recent success of classic. Personally, I've loved being able to extend my time with WoW this expansion as normally I'd have already quit by now. Delves have given me a reason to stick around beyond the two month mark since I care nothing about raiding (or guilds) after doing it for years. Even so, I know myself and by the end of the year my sub will be up and I'll be out again for however long. That is, until Legion remix happens. . .
curious; how are you farming crests (more specifically the rune/gilded) WITHOUT M+? its not so much that i dont want to do M+ its more im just struggling with pugs to get clears above 3's/4's no matter how high the io or the lil thing of highest cleared on the tool tip, which also means my keys/io never get high enough to bring in/tempt others to join
To be transparent, I do not personally enjoy doing Delves. With that said, I do not wish to take anything away from those players, that do prefer staying away from group content or just plain prefer a solo challenge. I think Delves offer a great opportunity for those players to get Heroic track pieces, and honestly I wish that Bountiful Maps would offer you more than 3 Mythic track crests. Still, what Delves in my opinion fail at is fitting in properly with regards to what level of gear you get compared to the difficulty of the content. My point is not, that I do not wish for players without the time or wish to fully optimise their gameplay to also receive rewards. My problem comes from how skewed the difficulty curve is right now. With how powerful Brann is, as long as I can somehow stay alive, I am able to clear my level 8 Delves on my alts just after reaching level 80 and buying the baseline blue crafted gear and the Darkmoon Faire trinkets. This just does not compare to the difficulty of either Raids or M+, both of which require significantly more gear before I can start doing them at a level that yields similar rewards and thus make me feel like those aren't worthwhile to do in comparrison. I think Delves are a great addition to the game and that over time it would be fantastic, if they would allow you to gear up a character even with Mythic track pieces. I just wish, that the rewards/difficulty of the content would be a bit closer to mirroring what we see in Raids and M+ dungeons. :')
Thing is there is different gearing/talent requirements for Mythic+ and Raiding. I like raiding, but find it incredibly frustrating to be expected to do +10 Mythics and hearing the crybabies cry when we don't know the 'mechanics' when they don't even take the time to explain them. Like we are in discord...why not do a 30 sec recap on how they want to do the affixes because we all know every group does them different. I would much rather do my little delves, grabbing a few extra pugs to help out...and get my 615 slots in the vault...no pressure of mythic plus! (AND those are the slots that have given me tier pieces and BiS items! If people are running mythic plus to get raid gear, don't they know that anything in the mythic loot table can drop; and it might not be your BIS raid item? Not sure where the delves loot table comes from, but it seems to be pulling from everything?) Just my opinion, but Blizzard has lost their minds with Mythic+, there is such a huge jump in difficulty that it's just really frustrating! AND I did actually prove that bountiful delves 8/9 tier CAN be done with all DPS members and some of them 'under-geared'. It's a cake walk as long as you are ok with telling your group members how to do things that make it work. So if you have newer 80's in your guild, take them on some 8/9 delves and help them out!
Solo content is very important because a lot of us don't have the time let alone the inclination to wait on groups or worry about being good or fast enough.
I don’t get the uproar over this stuff. Torghast criticism was legitimate, and the legendary crafting system didn’t seem to land the way Blizzard had intended. There was no other option for progression, you had to farm your crafting materials. There was massive Torghast burnout by the end of Shadowlands. Delves are quite literally the exact opposite. Aside from cosmetics, achievements, and some other non player power rewards… you can NOT engage in a single delve (outside of the levelling campaign) and you won’t lose out on a single thing. I’m on the spectrum and have a really dry sense of humor. I have a really, really hard time engaging with people through text because I’ll miss out on all the context of what the person is saying, and they’ll think I’m a bit of a dick because I use humor to disguise how lost I can end up getting. Most guilds that do any sort of raiding generally require discord and voice chat and I just… nah. I can’t do it. Before LFR I had never stepped inside a raid while it was still current content. I like the delves. Well, most of the delves. I like exploring and the delves that limit your ability to explore with poison gas, darkness, or being under water are the “one and done” delves for me. I like Torghast more still. In terms of replayability it’s never been equalled or exceeded. Every class, and sometimes even individual specs, have their own unique ways of tackling the challenges before them. The RNG can be annoying at times but most of the powers do something really cool. Once it was no longer mandatory for player power, Torghast became REALLY fun. So for people like me, the anti-social but not by choice folks, Dragonflight took a big step in the right direction towards providing a truly engaging solo experience at max level. TWW took that initial success, and then took it a step further. I don’t understand the problem some people have with this. I’ve seen people call the behaviour gatekeeping, but I don’t think that’s quite right. It’s closer to just straight up being mean spirited, cruel, bullying behaviour. These parts of the game almost certainly won’t EVER be seen by these people, let alone have it impact their enjoyment of the game. These people are the seagulls of the gaming world. Obnoxious, loud, mean, and crapping on other people just because they can. 😪
I'd even dare say they should bring back Torghast, make it queue-able as a delve. No need to give any lore explanation, just tag it as a timewalking deal or something. Some of the bosses on the higher difficulty Torghast floors and the crazy powers-builds you could make with many classes were legit fun.
Also. Another casual here, a dad, mythic + is way to time consuming and frustrating - finally delves are exactly what we needed. If anything they should make the gear better for +9 / +11
Its actually the oposite, delves should reward even better gear. For now there is no reason to run higher than +8 cause vault and gear doesnt progress further. They should create super delves like super dungeons and scale up to +15 or smth. Dunno what the problem of people is, there is 0 negative aspect, of a solo player getting gear for you or your raid. Why does it hurt you if I get gear?
Enjoying delves more than M+ because of the removal of timers, and hope they keep improving on them. Historically you only got the best gear from raids, then M+ was introduced and now we have Delves. WOW used to be fun before this rush rush keep moving timers took over the game. 25-5-1 Raid, M+ Solo its a good mix. Also Delves don't give Mythic raid gear and very small amount of crests to upgrade the hero gear so i think its in a good place not as high but still decent.
I personally don't think high end players care about gear earned by the riff-raff anymore, their prestige is garnered by the Mythic raiding title, M+ title and M+ rating, no amount of gear is going to earn you these accolades (although a crapton of gold can buy you a carry for some of this). I think Delve's has brought some additional pain and toxicity to mid key levels. The gear earned through Delves gives the impression that players can jump into these midkeys to progress their gearing, but the skill required is a country mile between T8 delves and midkeys, especially when done as a group. So, I agree it is the same old story, uncoordinated groups of people with easily obtained gear are trying to progress through content beyond their skill. Tale as old as time.
I think instead of nerfing delves, you should be able to use a bountiful key on mythic+ and Raid Content to guarantee a drop. For me, it's the guarantee that makes delves feel like a superior option.
Mythic+ ruined WoW. Delves are great, though. I now even raid with my guild twice a week. Last expansion, I would have quit by now until the next major content patch but Delves are keeping me entertained this time around.
I haven't done a lot in the way of delves, but I will be soon. ATM, I just feel like Heroics aren't the same. They hit harder and feel so tedious. In DF Heroics were so much chill fun. Now, I only do enough to max out my GV slots and move on to delves.
Ruined? It's 603 into a rare 610, that's baby gear It's the M+ loot distribution that's unfair. Having the weekly goal (mythic vault) and the seasonal goal (portals) on the same difficulty is dumb.
So true, I’ve been asking a ton why is the weekly goal the same as the end of season goal. I honestly think on the same note the highest level delves (11 or ?? Zek) should just give m track in vault. Don’t call it a end game pillar if it’s shorter than the other ones but you have the bricks laying there to make it the same
I love be the challenge you really need to think brann DPS or healer..what spec do you need to use..what do you need to use in your kit..plus what everyone forgets is there gear and there stats.. it fantastic now I love don't change anything it perfect..
I’m loving Delves, and really appreciate being able to gear up through them. For their debut I think it made some sense to give them a head start so people would give the new thing a chance, but for future seasons and expansions, think it will make more sense for them to unlock at the same time as equivalent gear sources from dungeons and raids. I have almost all champion/hero gear from Delves (except wrists which have never dropped and I’m stuck on Explorer 8/8), which is wild and wouldn’t be upset if it was a little slower or if the highest gear tiers didn’t unlock right away.
It should go delve>heroic raid+low M+>M raid and high keys. Who is they? The .01%? This system is perfect for solo players and regular people to learn their classes and do it at increasing difficulty and learning to respect mechanics and coordinating pulls and high priority marks. This is the only reason I stayed. Try pugging raid is feels so different now. It feels good.
I am glad people are pushing back against the gatekeeping instead of just ignoring it which then has Blizzard making changes to appease the classic Andy's. If anything i hope they take the same thought process that helped them create delves & use that for other things in the future. Same with follower dungeons & "story mode" raids.
I was a high end raid lead for a fairly large guild back in the day. It was a second job, I had a girlfriend school and a night job. When ten man became available so it was a more responsible smaller group of people who enjoyed playing together the game got more fun and less like herding cats. Then some of them got jobs that made raid schedules impossible and eventually mythic plus became a fun option for us to continue getting together one night a week and play a challenging mode. Delves are great continuation of those trends because I feel like there is something I can push myself on that doesn’t require me to sit down and commit a huge amount of time or organization. If I have to leave because I’m twenty years older than when I started playing this game and life happened, I walk away and lose nothing because my key isn’t consumed till the end. I feel the development of this game has trended toward respecting players time while still offering challenges and I am a big fan. The game needs to change with its player base and this is a good step for large (if not overly vocal) parts of the community.
The way delves arw now is the reason im still subbed. M+ can be toxi af on higher keys and raiding is another issue to pug ( i fan only pug as my time is limited and dont like to raid on schedule as i got a life outside wow)
This is a very thoughtful video. I am restricted on my game time. Delves and follower dungeons have been a great addition to the game and are exactly what I needed. I think the gearing speed and levels are good, but you’re right, I wouldn’t have noticed it if it was a little slower or slightly lower gear levels on the front end. I see them as a fun way to enjoy content without the time commitment and I get a prize at the end. I’m only at level 2 on my delves, and I’m really enjoying it. My opinion, Blizzard really nailed it. Keep up the great videos. I like your thoughts.
I'm very inept as a healer, but the idea with zekvir is to spec minimum healing to keep brann alive but still do the heavy lifting in destroying the egg.
I love delves and I love raiding, but constantly hearing comments from my raid leader about how m+ is more fun and harder than delves and how the vault slot item level is too high for delves and how delves are a chore for him... it's really a downer.
They shouldn't nerf the Delves. While they are fun, people will stop doing them if there isn't a reward. I have no desire to run Mythic Plus with toxic idiots. It's just not enjoyable for me. I'd prefer to do Delves. I also would like the option to do Heroic and Mythic with the AI team. I can start running the instance pause, get a cup of coffee if I want. I do them at a pace that I enjoy rather than lets see how fast we can do the Dungeon at record time. We should be able to get the same gear as raids. There are other things that demand my time than spending multiple nights a week with players that consider themselves elites. Let them raid with other people in that category so they can pat themselves on the back feeling awsome.
I do not do Mythic and do not do any normal / heroic raiding and so in my opinion I love to be able to do delve's and have the possibilty to get good end game gear to get near the same ilvl as thos who do do other content. If they change delves and lower the gear ilvl then this will in effect negate people wanting to do them.
I had wiped the "welfare epics" in WOTLK from my mind. Thanks for the reminder lol. It's funny that this was one of the most popular times in the game's history and people seethed, and now we're seeing it again and people are seething again. I'm really enjoying delves, so maybe I'm biased, but it's so nice to just be able to chill and solo stuff but not feel like I'm letting my raid down because I'm not doing m+ to pad up my vault. I can listen to music while I do them without being on discord with my guild. I can go afk whenever I want. No timer, no pressure, no stress. I love it.
As someone who played through WotLK and Cata and came back for TWW, Delve's are a nice change of pace from the slow and frustrating grind that was gearing in the old expansions. I hated (HATED) farming heroic dungeons just so I could get to experience the end-game content, which was also a slow frustrating process that required a lot of luck to get the gear you wanted. With delves you can be ready to go to get to the end-game content without grinding heroics and lower level raids for weeks.
I hadn’t touched WoW since my first kid was born,12 years ago, and this expansion came at the right time, as I’m getting some of my free time back, and the content of this expansion seemed interesting. Delves and the solo and alt friendly changes to the game definitely clinched it for me. I’m having a blast, learning the changes to the game, and not having to deal with a guild of people I hardly know, and raid groups that’ll kick you if you miss one interrupt. Maybe in time I’ll get back to guilds and group play, but this is awesome for me now. If they turn around and make sweeping changes because of loud gatekeepers, I’m not so sure I’d stick around too long.
Some thing I noticed with gearing, it doesn't appear to be possible to gear only through 5 man dungs. The ilvl required for heroic queueing is 10+ ilvl higher than what drops in normal, forcing you to gear outside of the normal 5 man dungeons.
I agree that normal dungeons ought to at least drop explorer gear because it's really easy to get explorer-veteran gear from completing outdoor activities. That said, currently it's really easy to get explorer-veteran gear from completing outdoor activities. Being "forced" as you suggest is a dubious argument hinging on some overly strict principle imo.
I’m loving delves - it feels like I finally have a meaningful end game to play after years of just noodling with lots of alts in world quests and more recently in weekly community events. I also really appreciate that you’re treating delves as serious content and putting together guides on them. Also thanks for dropping the ‘algorithm’ comment - great to know that you’re listening ❤.
I play roughly an hour a day. That kind of schedule doesn't allow me to hardcore raid and spend hours farming gear. The fact that delves are available to let me farm gear is HUGE. It is a way for me to enjoy a dungeon=like experience without having to get a group together to raid or do a dungeon. I avoid the inevitable toxic "get good" idiots that you run into whenever you PUG a dungeon or raid. Generally, I'm just enjoying the game more because I can choose when I want to take some more time and do raid or dungeon content at my own pace. It also gets people geared more easily for the initial raid and M+ content. I sincerely hope that delves/delve-like options are here to stay with upcoming expansions.
Bountiful delves keep giving the same items that you don't need. It's not like you fill a new armor slot every time you go in. It takes a lot of time and work to get fully geared from delves. There people need to stop crying... delves are awesome. I especially like how the "stories" in delves rotate.
Thanks for the video. As a player that doesn’t have time to put much into the game and don’t enjoy group content much delves seem to really fill that niche for players like me which is more common than the M+ raider crowd realizes. Plus getting gear in delves doesn’t guarantee the same type of higher larger quantity of options for gear as those that ALSO do mythic and raiding for the great vault that just doing delves restricts you to
I am in a guild and attend weekly raid and obtain AOTC. I also play M+ on one character but I dont push heavily - typically takes a season to obtain the 2k points needed. I avoid pugging M+ and find my self closing out the game if that was to be the only form of gear progression. Delves have solved all that and I really enjoy them. It provides me an opportunity to work with any of my alts and my main and still have the opportunity of decent gear. It does NOT negate any other content.
@Soulsobreezy it's nice to hear you've gotten some boost to views etc. With all the content you have done for TWW it's good to hear it has paid off 👍🏻 There's been numerous times I have guided people to watch your profession videos because I genuinely think they were great and helpful videos. Could say the same of the Delve guide etc! So as long as you keep doing the great job as you have I will make sure to keep recommending your videos to people too 😎🤘🏻
For me, it really comes down to time vs reward. Having something you can do in 15-30min and have the chance at a gear piece upgrade is great. Not waiting on queues and other people in raids etc. is amazing.
If they nerf gear in delves they’ll kill them. Time put in is time put in. They shouldn’t be required to run M+ or raids if they don’t want to.
Exactly and that is the whole point of delves so blizz taking that away would be a step backwards for a good portion of the player base
FACTS
It’s not time put in though if you can clear high tier delves easier than you can clear high tier M+ or raid.
@@CraZeKllutchy Eh, screw high tier M+. It's garbage, and let's be real... most of the raid nonsense is too.
Taxation is theft....How do we know? Make it voluntary and see who still pays every year.
Most players hate mythic + and raiding....How do we know? Make the same level of gear available in other ways like delves and see how many people still plays mythic + and raids for "the fun and challenge".
People like delve content....How can we know? compare at the end of the season the % of players that got to tier 8 and stayed there compared to the % that went all the way to tier 11 and killed big bad even though there is no extra gear loot above 8 for the fun and challenge.
I'm now a solo player after years of raiding and dungeons I just couldn't stomach it anymore, the gatekeeping, the elitism, the ridiculous people, and all for what? nothing more than ego and vanity with gear no one cares you have, that within months becomes nothing more than a transmog piece. If I fail in a delve it's all on ME!! not some ridiculous shenanigans that happen in raids and dungeons with some really downright disgusting people.
same here, delves do feel like a blessing now: can be (and are preferably) soloed, no timer, no mdi wannabe pros, no flaming over even the siliest mess up, and they do give a sense of personal progress at your own pace, can even dig up your long forgotten alts you were scared to pug on since legion or so, and if you run out of lives you can always restart it and try again and in worst case curse at yourself only :p its still a mmoRPG, let ppl play it however they want ? if they either nerf them into oblivion because the elitist herd of rabid sheep complains they are "too ez" because they are speedrunning them with their "blaster groups" for "free" starter gear for their 10th alts/rerolls to " spam" keys, OR add some super competitive component like timers/ dps rankings/leaderboards/meta comps, they have won it all. this coming from an eternal filthy casual who has been dabbling in both mythic raids, key pushing, all the things apart from competitive pvp pretty much. i (half) joked in DF once that the day boralus is back as m+ im done or at least take a long break, and it actually IS back, perfect timing :p its not even about wasting time, wipes or anything, a lot of ppl do have busy real lives and little time for gaming, myself i got the time, im also fine with wipes but ppl cant even take a wipe, 2 or 10 anymore :p raid pugs are, "oh noes, not an oneshot? is this progress run, got no time for it, just normal/hc?" or "KICK FAILERS", "KICK LOW DPS" which they actually do. back in WoD everyone hates now, you could pug things like mythic HFC, not 2-3 first bosses IF your precious parses are "good enough" but up to xhul even, a friend was progressing mannoroth with a weekly pug, not sure if he did but it was doable even if a lot runs were awful and it was disband after one wipe like almost everything now :p at the same time you could get a random mythic loot chest every 2 weeks for doing some hc bosses (it was RANDOM; you rarely got a true upgrade anyway), and it was.. fine? delve loot is random too btw, im actually still after the candlestick trinket higher than adventurer track despite my main doesnt even need most delve gear anymore apart the vault slots, just because i like it, and it has the best flavor text ever, i dont want to replace it with any other trinket even if its not the best :p but ofc the loot chest keys are so limited, i even filled the seasonal bar to the point i could buy the keys from the "murloc" vendor, only to find out its probably one time deal of 3 per account. ". the moral of the story is to never trust fake murlocs (wink wink :p) its not even about gear, but it should be ok to get a gear reward better than a greenieat the end right? angry ramblings of an old "noob" probably, but its about time to speak up that the emperor is naked shall we? :p
100% this! :D
The problem is not the Delves. The problem is that SOME ppl don't think they are fun, but they are FORCED to do them, in order to raid mythic.
@@draloalo interesting point hehe, who forces ppl though? only curious, nothing offensive at all. the dictator gm/raid leader/officers because there is some bis item there (the dagger maybe, i honestly dont know, not reading any bis gear/ spec tier lists or anything on purpose in tww at all) ppl absolutely need to have, or they will get benched if not having it, or the raiders "force" themselves because they wont get a "high" parse over that 1k dps difference if not having that item? the problem is again, elitism/meta slavery/too serious competition. noone should be forced into any unwanted content, no matter if its pvpers/mythic raiders/m+ pushers/solo enjoyers and all other "filthy casuals",noone. the weird thing is, the very top players dont really seem feeling "forced" into any content, they will do anything to compete to be the best of the best, those are the only ones actually forced to squeeze every 0.001% to get there. and if its literally about some specific gear bits farm, there is always a possibility to group run them in the usual "blaster groups", there is even a LFG section only for those :p but yea glad there is a lot of ppl who actually do them for fun and who hope they will keep that content relevant, and not only listen to the "elite" because it "takes too much time" to speedfarm.
It is all done with a purpose , boosting services, the gatekeeping is often fueled by boosters that are designing this kind of situations just so they can charge gold or real money for a +10 key spot lol
Bro, I’m a dad! I don’t have time to sit in a big ass raid or try to get people together to try and raid. I don’t have time for this crap! I also don’t have time to get yelled at about how I’m not no life mythic plus mechanics, I just wanna play the game with my friends get gear and PVP on my time and at my own pace
im not even a dad and i dont want to sit in a raid for 2-3 hours. I rather play the game than hear people fight because they cant do mechanics or because dps is low.
agreed. s much as i want to raid I have zero time to do so anymore, and find mythic + to just be boring. The whole point of delves was for the solo player to be able to have an avenue to get gear
@@groupnate Then MMOs ain’t for you, bud. These games are always a grind fest, as they should be. The idea that WoW should have solo content that’s easier and gives better gear than much of the end game content, means you don’t want to play an MMO. You want a co-op or single player experience with an MMO-like gearing process.
@@CraZeKllutchy That isn't grind, my dude. That's just friction for the sake of breaking the community. There is no world where it should take 4+ hours to complete an organized raid, and that's only if you're successful. Organization and having the numbers should make the raid easier, not harder. This is another reason why Classic feels so good.
@@networknomad5600 I can agree with you on the the point that raid requires too much organization and is too challenging for the average player. I think Classic feels good not because it has solo content, it feels good because it’s not overwhelming and exhausting to do end game content. I just think delves create a gearing imbalance that puts a bandaid over a large issue with WoW. Solo content isn’t the best way forward, simplifying the end game is.
The only people complaining about delves are the people who craft their personality around "I'm a raider / I'm a high level M+ runner, and that makes me better than you"
bro I'm a keymaster
The inferiority complex of casuals is astonishing lmao. Do you feel like Mythic raiders secretly watch you play and make fun of you?
@@joethestrat Funny, who is complaining as the subject of the video here. You try too hard to have a "point" here
@@joethestrat Well you obviously come to youtube comment sections to be toxic so you likely do it in other places and ways as well.
@OhNoTheFace Its hilarious you think high end players waste brain power thinking about casuals... why would they. You aren't important.
For me, delves are difficult. I've been playing for over 15 years, but apparently, I've been playing wrong. I'm amazingly happy that I just got through a level 7 delve. I haven't been able to repeat it yet, but I'm proud of myself. I'm proud of earning higher level gear from delves because they are a challenge.
A casual player on this week going up to 7 is pretty normal.
Just duo or trio an 8 and bountiful 8s until you can solo them. Ez.
You are who Delves were designed for, myself included. Those who are challenged by Delves progression and are suitably rewarded for their effort, just as M+ and raid players are rewarded suitably for theirs. There’s room for both in Wow, it doesn’t have to be either or
I’m a Paladin tank at a 599 gear score and I switch between level 7-8 delves depending on the toughness of it they are not as easy as some other people are claiming they are. It took me five deaths on the boss at the end to finish one of the delves in the spider zone in level eight it was rough.
@@lennoxraynewood2741 you can try brann healer if you did not still. I was sweating on my 600 ench shaman untill i switched to heal brann. i was clearing delve8 even when i was 570 with kiting, control, a lot of sweating but in any loot if i make any mistake - 3-4 seconds of slowness and i am dead. I switched brann to healer today and i just breezed through delve not even waiting for ANY cds before ANY pack. Just pay attention to potions that he throws - they heal A LOT.
As someone who plays 8 toons on a weekly basis, I truly appreciate how delves allow me to gear the characters I don't raid/ run keys with. It's a really great season so far for people with many characters :3
nerd
You literally needed to run one M+ per week per alt. I've been gearing all classes since Legion and they always had KSH and top gear with very little time investment.
This
I agree with you, majority of delve criticism I've seen has come from wanting to gatekeep. I am so, so happy for delves myself, I used to tank mythic+ to gear and then raid but doing delves instead has breathed life back into the joy of tanking for me. Will probably never do mythic+ again as long as delves let me gear up for raids.
@@AmiciArt it's not even gatekeeping. It's wanting to force you to play m+ with them even if you despise it.
@@mistakai4226 Yes, if the Mythic+ player participation numbers drop, they are gonna blame it on Delves even though Mythic+ players are using Delves to gear up for Mythic+.
@@christopherdaffron8115the only things that’s ruining M+ Participation stats are the communities nasty entitled attitudes
I’m mostly just confused- delves are fun enough to keep doing all season? They’re just not that fun, maybe now but you want to do these forever? Ugh
@@nuggyfresh6430 just like anything else, if you exhaust the content you can choose to stop wherever you like. I usually get geared and then switch to casual stuff like mog farming and doing other activities. Then I clear the weekly raid with my guild. It's not as much about the raid as it is about hanging out though.
Eliteism will result in poor player growth. Your MMO will be for no one except a select few.
Delves are not giving out that much loot. Beyond that delves had to be leveled and i got almost no gear from having to level brann and the delves. They give trash gear and now I keep getting mostly trinkets. People who raid just need to focus on what they want to do and not gripe about other path ways.
Every tier 8 bountiful is a guaranted 606? Not that much loot?
@@chokonma3420 ya i think he didnt know about bountiful delves and has been spamming the normal delves not giving brann xp
@@chokonma3420Tier 8 delves give 603 gear on bountiful chests and most times its a garbage trinket
603 is normal raid tier level gear
@@chokonma3420 its 606. By no means good gear. Its entry lvl for basic low lvl mythics and raid. It does not give you good gear. Even bounty 610 gear. How you gonna upgrade it with 2 runed crests per high lvl delve? People got it backwards. Delves dont drop enough crests. They are not a legitimate way to build your gear up. They just give you entry lvl epics to get you rdy for low lvl mythics. They do not replace mythics or raiding for gear at all. They are like a mythic 2 then taking 15 hours of delves to upgrade a single item up to 616 where it will max out. What is that like mythic 6? And cannot be upgraded past that ever. Make higher delves like 11 drop more crests and hero track gear. Without that, delves will always be gimped.
@@chokonma3420 The Delves bountiful loot table isn't any where close to the loot table of gear you can get from M+ dungeons or normal/hero/myth Raids. Delve gear isn't even close to as good as those and certainly isn't replacing them.
Delves are perfect, shut up let me play solo, this is like visions of nzoth with more variety and more speed, if u want play with others go, dont ruin the life of players who dont have time to play long raids with wipes and dungeons with leavers and bad ppl.
But can you see it from another person's perspective maybe? Imagine that YOU had to clear raid and all m+ dungeons in order to complete your Delves? How would that make you feel? People don't want to be forced to do content (which they think is boring), in order to play the content they like.
@@draloalo how are you forced to do delves? you can still farm the traditional way?! but with delves you have faster gear so you can enter m+ faster, how is this bad?! You are just complaining to complain at this point
@@randomstuff-td1jl yes that's their only point and is completly wrong. "Oh but you have to do delvves to do RAids or M+" i have no ideia how they raided or did M+ before this exp, if this is their claim.
@@draloalo Are you replying to the right comment? Nobody is 'forced to do content'... That's *literally* the point of delves existing in the first place, so people AREN'T forced to do content (being M+ and raids)
@@ElusiveTy Yes, if I don't do delves, I wont be able to do m+ high keys. So yes I am indirectly forced to do it.
Oh no! Filthy casuals running around in Champion 4/8 gear! *ITS OVER! THE GAME IS TRASH! HOW DARE THEY!* Blah blah blah.....
Its the same people who are *TOXIC AF* in M+ which is why I refuse to do it.
THIS is truth
Make it 5/8 with reasonable update,that still far away from some 63x
Agreed
Oh I was doing Stonevault earlier. Smooth run. But I accidently shoulder bumped a pack because I was collecting the orbs and I overcompensated.
Geez, after that the healer didn't care about healing me after. M+ gets toxic as hell for 1 error.
Always, ALWAYS do mythics with friends. They're the most fun content in ANY mmorpg ever made.
After literally 10 years im back to wow… now im a father with a lot more life responsability than before…. Im so so so happy to be able to play the game in my own way in my own time…
Thanks blizzard. Not only for the delves but for everything else u did to help us to play the game ❤
if they change the delves or eliminate them or lower the gear im done with WOW......im a solo player, and i aint doing mythics......too much drama
Are you saying illuminate or eliminate? lol
@@larryjasper9721 Respectfully Larry, this isn’t the game for you if you only want to do solo content.
@@CraZeKllutchy Why shouldnt he be able so play solo if he wants to? There is so much toxicity and drama in M+ that i personally try do minimize how many m+ i need to do just for the vault. Im sick to spend 1,5h just to get a team going and then to have 1 wipe and eveyone just leaves ~~
@@CraZeKllutchy when they announce a chronicle for solo players with a mode for solo players i except that content for solo players, I don't give a Fu k about sweets or top players i don't like them at all, if they want to push m+ and raids go for it but if i have the chance to get heroic gear as solo let me get it, doesn't bother the sweets at all,but in same time@Blizzard ruined they solo mode making it party mode and this is just dumb.
ILLUMINATI?! 👁👄👁
Delves feel great because theres no toxic bs from other try hard players that have no life and no longer enjoy a VIDEO GAME, simple as that. Theres plenty of challenge, variety, and insane amount of ways to make more or improve or change current ones. Players ruined M+ like most things in wow, devs do have a hand, but its always toxic players that actually do the damage.
even if you do a group in delves you still get toxic players. It is simply unreal how nasty a percentage of the player population is.
@red2977 Yes this is true, but most people usually just do delves with friends or solo. But indeed quite a bit are toxic. But I don't believe it's the majority, just the loudest. Still find a lot of really cool, chill people just playing the game, but they usually don't yell like the toxic folk do :/
As a player who doesn't particularly enjoy the often toxic group content, delves have been a revelation. Myself and my friend go in enjoy ourselves and don't have to deal with all that toxic crap.
Exactly, even the group delve community seem to be alot less shitty than any other community in this game, which has been nice.
Delves are one of the most fun atm. Rewards are quite ok. Stop crying.
that just means people tend to have better gear for high end raids so odds are you dont have another leroy jenkins wipe
@justshishkin all I want are max ilvl gear from delves!
@@iuliuslovin37this but unironically
@@iuliuslovin37 I wouldn't mind had they added heroic level delves say tier 12+ but I do think mythic tier gear should be raid only. the entire mythic+ dungeon system can be deleted for all I care, the entire community is so filled with toxic people that they would deserve it, but then again maybe m+ keeps these people quarantined to their little corner, away from the rest of us.
@@SoteksChunkyProphet-dg7io Mythic raid gear shouldn't be a think! Mythic is anyway for World First crap. Just have Heroic Raid and Delves give the best gear, then in Mythic raid you only have transmog that you unlock! Make the gear from Mythic raid very unique and cool! So it can be only for the challenge is providing and for the transmog to do this content! Then you will have the true people who want to do Mythic Raid
As a DPS i never even tried to queue for mythics and I've been playing since TBC. It's just too much friction and there are huge waiting times. I'm happy that i can finally play a DPS and get decent gear.
Delves are great! If raiders and mythic + players are whining because now people don't want to join them, it is there fault for not being welcoming of new people to those modes.
This!
As a raider, any raider who says this is bad is dumb as hell. I pugged normal 8/8 the first week. the normal raid is so easy, probably about as easy as group t8 delves, so they have no place to complain about gatekeeping. Because if we were going to close the gates on casuals, normal raiders would be out as well. But ignoring all that, I think delves are a great just on their own and as a stepping stone for people who want to get into raiding. If you want to solo a t8 delve you actually have to pay attention the the mechanics of the mobs which only is going to help people practice for an actual raid. We should be getting as many people as possible to feel invested in end tier content, if that means giving solo casual players normal tier gear... good. I'm also not sure who these raiders are that are complaining. every raider i know loves delves and the amount of gear they give. Gearing up alts has never been better.
Great discussion! As a 100% disabled person with only one usable hand (left side semi paralyzed) , I had to give up mythic raiding and I can barely do heroic raiding, so I have to out gear my hunter just to maintain parity with the folks in my guild… while I can play all day, the strain and pain reduces my game time to the same as a person that works, has a family, and/or is in school… delves help me get there… so I’m a big fan of them!
How tf you raid HC with 1 hand? Thats seriously impressive
@@ElevatedLevetator I use a Logitech mouse with 12 buttons on the side plus the add on GSE (Gnome Sequence Enhancer) which helps with st and are basic rotations… luckily the three strokes only effected my left side and I’m right handed… I taught myself farming leather, crafting and vendoring so I could buy that long boi AH mount… it took a while but I still do pretty good.
People are enjoying delves as a progression path because they are not bound to the schedule constraints of other people. Not much in the game is a challenge for people who play well, and I think the happy medium is scaling the difficulty to match the player skill/gear. I would love to see this system applied to M+ as I would like to push my character to the limits and learn, but I wanna do it on my own time. If people think that group content should be the end all of WoW, maybe they should make their groups more appealing to be in.
Delves give people who aren't in big guilds a chance to get gear on par with normal raid gear. I don't see why people are so butt hurt. Let people enjoy the same YOU enjoy the way they want to. It's not 2004 anymore 🎉
gatekeeping fake accomplishment's for the sake of clout that does not exist
Exactly, also it's only normal tier gear. It's not like it's heroic or mythic so what the hell is the problem. Normal raid is even easier to pug than delves are so if anything the normal raiders have it easier.
Everyone needs to talk to themselves honestly. I stopped raiding in LK because guild drama. I've been a solo player ever since. I eventually burned out in Cataclysm but came back in Legion when I asked myself "what is fun?" and then decided "If something isn't fun, I'm not going to do it." Do this. Find out what is genuinely fun about this game and do that. If you're a raider and you hate that I can get raid level gear, how does that hurt you? Is it because you don't do raids for fun, but you do it as some kind of macho show of superiority? Then I'm happy to keep doing delves for gear just because you don't know how to be happy. If you prefer to gear in raids, do raids. I'm not hurting you. If your guild replaces your raid slot with a Delver, your guild is full of assholes and you shouldn't play with them. DO WHAT IS FUN. I hate that it needs to be said out loud.
People just want to cry at any given moment. Let them cry
back in my day I had to walk up hill in the snow just to get to the summoning stone to a Raid to get a chance at gear. Fuck the elites, WoW is making the game accessible to everyone
I love Delves I'm having a hard time joining mythic plus groups because my class is not Meta or OP enough...
God forbid anyone gets some decent gear without having to be bossed through group content by the sort of idiot that makes people not want to do group content. 🙄
Stressing yourself for about an hour through an m+ dungeon with pugs, explaining every single thing just so one player leaves at the last boss after 2 wipes. And you get NOTHING for it, absolutely NO-THING. Delves are a gift from the gods honestly.
I thought the whole point of delves were to allow solo players to gear decently. If this also allows them to gear to join raids, if they choose, then awesome. It's pathetic if people are butthurt over this.
I'm don't understand what people are complaining about I'm totally happy with the delves
Delves have done the opposite for, and for the first time in 20 years, I'm interested in end game mythics and raids.
I have been playing Wow since launch in 2004, and always been one of those quiet solo players for almost all of that time. I've never before really participated in the end game grind or other activities, and most dropped off as each expansion went along. Delves have changed that, and I can't wait to do the weekly content for that next bit of gear upgrading. That's inspired me to start getting into mythics and raids, so delves have opened up the game for me.
Nothing is being ruined.. This is literally the problem with wow.. So many complainers and they are the ones who actually ruin the game long term cause they are so damned loud and frequent. Blizzard thinks they represent the player base and change good and interesting features and ruin them for the rest of us
As a person coming back to the game after two expansions, delves are not too easy. I am still trying to complete 1 t8 bountiful delve. Don’t know how people steam roll the t8 bountiful delves.
Let me introduce you to an addon called hekili :D
Start your own group for a specific Bountiful Delve Tier 8 and call it something like "T8", you will have a full group in about 1 to 3 mins. If you only need a tank or a healer change the listing name to that, then you proceed like a typical dungeon and you can spam your T8s in a chill environment. People are pretty positive during these
I wasn’t really able to solo t8 easily as a War until 1. The healer brann buff and 2. Getting about 600 ilvl
Tank specs make it face roll but for squishy classes it boils down to healer bran the meta curios and just blasting cds killing a pack and waiting for cds to do the next one give or take.
The tips I can give is this. Use brann as a healer and just keep going into bountiful delves and pick up the mysterious curios to give him xp. Doesn't matter if you can't finish the delve, just get him as much xp as you can. The more levels he gain, easier it will become. Use the healing pots on the ground sparingly. Don't rush over all of them, but try to take 1 at a time when you need healing. Porcelain arrowhead and amorpheus relics are good. try to aim for them. The delve itself. Go slow and try to pull single mobs out to you, and don't rush in and fight huge packs at a time. Pull and hide behind things to force them to come to you. If there are two nasty mobs after eachother. Just wait for cooldowns again before the second mob.
People were saying the same things about M+ in relation to raiding...
well atm heroic raiding is 10 times faster 10 times easier then doing say a +4 even in m+, player quality this season is worse then i have seen in a decade and i havenmt seen this many keys be depleted since well m+ was introduced. dont knwo what it is with the players/pugs, but they are fucking godawefull
@@eXpr3sI think it’s a combination of returning players that don’t know how to play m+ and the m+ level squish. 12-14s used to be the slog area you avoided because that started eclipsing people’s skill level, now those are 2-4. I healed a 4 Mists last night and only me and the tank kicked or cc’d anything. It was running around the second boss screaming PLEASE cc the stupid fox!
@@eXpr3s There are way more new and returning players than almost ever before. TWW S1 already have more M+ samples not even 2 weeks into the season than the entirety of Season 1 Dragonflight(or any other season for that matter). WoW players need to have more understanding of these players, specially on the lower level keys.
@@keithb6344 I think new players is also a problem here as I have had a few friends who NEVER played WoW pick it up with this expansions release and I spend half my time in game now explaining how everything at 80 works, what addons to use etc.
@@pandaabear6762 yeah i mean i get there will be new players, but to the level that if you are lucky you Will maby at best time 1/20 or so, its not fun waiting Quing for 3 hours straigh to get into 1 key that disbands after 5 minutes becaus people dont know how to press a single button on their keyboard. I mean Thats what m+ pugging is atm, its at best 1 good run every 8 hours
As a delve player I agree 100% my vault will 616 item level on 12 characters next week (02.10.2024) and I am pretty happy abourt that.
If they nerf delves, I'm out... Unsubbed and out... For once they give introverted players something to chew into. And sweaty gatekeeping crybabys are trying to change it??
Delves max out at 606 or 610 if you get a bounty. It takes 15 runed crests to upgrade a single item 3 ilvls. You get 2 crests per delve above 8. Meaning 8 delves per upgrade. Thats likely at least 2 hours farming per upgrade. To maxout delve gear it would take months when a mythic+ will just drop it higher ilvl if you can do it. You cant efficiently upgrade the delve gear to be as good. Especially since if you want runed crests for upgrades, the mythic is much quicker and will drop gear thats better anyway. Im dissappinted in delve gearing honestly. It gives you a good start but its not a way to gear up like mythics are. So you are still forced to do mythics, nothing really changed .
This, people just love to find things to bitch about.
You’re not forced to do Mythics if you’re happy with the gear level you’re getting from Delves, vault, and weekly world content, which many of us are.
to be fair guys that better Ilvl EQ than we have ever had access to ever! This is massive for us and if we lose out on the 610's we actually have to M+ :(
I like delves because it gives back that ‘chat room with activity’ feel of vanilla. I can do an activity with family, and not feel it’s removing me from my own gameplay loop.
Delves allow me to REGULARLY participate in Guild raid nights. I don't do Mythics, and am I geared enough that I am able to Raid and get the remainder of high level pieces through the raid. In my experience, the Mythic+ players wayyy outgear me, and are usually the stars of the raid, and I'm okay with that.
people forget that Delve were advertise as solo content..not as "gearing alternative for raider/m+" it was made for the majority of players who play solo because lets face it..more than 75% of wow player are anti-social XD
I have not tried delves yet but I believe delves need to be end game. playing the game Solo needs to be meta for some players like my self. I LOVE NOT NEEDING OTHERS TO GET GEAR , fuck you and go raid get bored and quit like every other time.
Dude right? I have 4 chars running delves because I enjoy the game again.
But delves are so boring I honestly don’t get it… lol
You want a single player rpg then....why not just play many of the numerous rogue-lites or ARPGs that exist? The heart of MMO's are communities, Blizzard has already stripped that down to its barest bones with sharding, etc. you should have to rely on interaction with players in the world to reach higher heights in MMOs.
The wow community is so fucking toxic tbh solo wow is much needed.@@jamescollins1124
@@jamescollins1124M+ is so toxic I want nothing to do with it, most interactions are pretty terrible in wow to the point I ignore the community out side my guild and server. The wow community isn’t that great and Blizzard has noticed this and has taken steps to remedy the problems but to little to late.
I'm a heroic raider and I love delves. I was trying to gear up and alt and I went into looking for raid did the whole thing and got zero drops. I can do like four delves in the same amount of time and actually get drops.
The gear ilvl caps out at tier 8 delves and its only 603. The trinkets are complete dogshit
The only gear delve players are getting is a single 616 piece from a vault per week.
This is gatekeeping of the highest degree
If I throw that item in the catalyst, what difficulty raid recolours can I possibly get? Just heroic?
@@Amplifymagic 616 woud be heroic
@@draphking thanks ya I looked it up, mythic has very high ilvl
Delves are the only reason i came back to wow, absolutely love them. I do them solo & take my time, im a much better player because of Delves. No complaints
Played a lot of group content during WOLTK. Core group broke up due to life. Tried coming back to group during BFA and it was so toxic. I get toxic at work, don’t need it during relaxation gaming time. Enjoying delves as I can do what I want when I want. Maybe delves will force a bit more chill into groups.
Delves are great as they are. I'm a solo player with a full time job. I like being able to get good gear. I even try to do raid finder once in a while. Now Raid Finder loot rules is what they need to fix. Nothing irritates me more than someone rolling need and winning gear and they're already wearing higher level gear gear. I had a guy roll on a 593 and he was sporting 619. I asked him if i could get the item to replace a 550. He laughed and DEed the item right in front of me.
Delves are just a cherry on top of the cake. I haven't seen any drama about it outside of your channel.
Oh ffs. The mythic and raiding crowd have been feeling so superior for years and now the solos get some equal gear they throw their dummies out the pram.
Grow up for gods sake. Not everyone has time to M+ or Raid.
Most who solo delve won't interfere with your precious content anyway as a good majority are gitgudders and folks don't want to deal with that now.
It's nice to have some decent gear without having to put up with gitgud bullshit.
Higher level tiers of delves are our M+ if we want the challenge. I totally agree with your comment of "if you don't like a part of the content, then don't do it" I'm probably the worst PVPer ever so I avoid it like the plague, but don't shit on folks who love it, it's their part of the game they enjoy the most whilst getting decent gear too
so true and this proves how toxic the raiding/m+ has become
translation: "it's nice to get good gear without having any skill at the game" got it. no one tells you to "gitgud" unless you are bad
@@angelsenvy2282 only a fully fledged member of the Gitgud brigade would say that 🤣🤣🤣
@@angelsenvy2282 and there's the proof. toxic to the end eh.
@@angelsenvy2282 is getting good gear a problem? It's not like you get the best gear from delves, you get that from high end Mythics, so god forbid that, people unable to invest countless hours into the game gets some entry level end game gear.
Delves are great! They're a breath of fresh air to the (what I think is) stale raid/dungeon gear progression. Obviously, there are folks who love raids/M+/PvP but they're not for me, outside of some LFR (if I hear the raid is good).
Personally, I agree that allowing players to get Coffer keys before the season started was a mistake, but then the reason so many people saved their keys was because that's what the meta players said to do, and if you're not meta, you're a scrub.
I don't get however how people are struggling for crests, I'm swimming in the first 2 tiers of crests (can't remember what their actual names are), it's valorstones I'm struggling to get and that has slowed my gear progression down, massively, and that's good. I don't want to be fully ilvl 616+ and steamrolling everything, I like delves because they (depending on class) make you think about how you approach the delve on higher tiers. They make you think about CC and interrupts and LoS breaks. Obviously, once you know the strat or you're a Blood DK, you walk them but but the initial challenge is great and it beats trying to keep up with a tank in M+ or having insults thrown at you if don't want to zerg a dungeon.
TLDR; Delves are awesome. Don't allow Coffer keys to drop before season start or at least cap it to 3 or something and buff valorstone drops EVERYWHERE.
I'm glad i don't have to burn myself out of 5 man Mythics for gear just so I can rerun those same Mythics.
@9:46 there is an Addon shown which compresses the floating combat text from 11,000 -> 11k.
Anyone know what Addon that is???
I love devles and i wish they scaled even higher. I think m+ are way to toxic, its like "2500 rating to join my +3" or one wipe and the tank leaves. So delves and raiding are a perfect combo
Delves help a lot in saving time for me to get geared to pop into higher mythics without rolling the die on pugs when I only get maybe 2hrs to play each night on a working week. The amount of time to difficulty is still there on higher delves so the rewards feel satisfying as opposed to dropping 20-30+ mins on a higher mythic that might get botched.
Too much gear? Delves has 1 item that is equivalent in value to raid gear and that is hero track Fate Weaver. You can't get Myth gear from a Delve and they barley give Guilded Crests.
If anything more so with crests a Delve should have an option to get the highest tier for taking the levels higher. An 11 was suppose to be as hard as the Mage Tower, so why not let people get Guilded Vrests for doing a Delve at a 10 or 11
I'm a dad that has been enjoying delves. Would be lame if it's gimped.
It’s not easier, it’s just single player so people who like m+ have less people to play with. Now finally I don’t need to pug with toxic kids.
I think those people are missing that delves are dropping or giving those dungeon trinkets or sweet gear geared towards raids/dungeons, a lot of it is high ivl and thats enough. I just do delves and my only wish for an improvement would be for more variety in the gear particularly in the transmog dept. But im thinking they dont want to do that?
Raids suck and are why many people quit.
Watching someone who is in the right guild, who never plays, gets gear dumped every six months when they log in for two weeks. Makes all the work a person does pointless.
At least delves take time for the player. Earning the keys.
Maybe make only solo delves give gear. So it’s earned.
Want to keep more players? Make raiding optional for progression
The only legitimacy to any claims of progression is this is now SOLO content vs in the past, group play was required for just about everything. Will this kill LFR, M+, or regular raiding? The real question should be what actually motivates people to play. If gear is the only reason to play anymore then it's a no wonder this game is continually flopping over outside the recent success of classic. Personally, I've loved being able to extend my time with WoW this expansion as normally I'd have already quit by now. Delves have given me a reason to stick around beyond the two month mark since I care nothing about raiding (or guilds) after doing it for years. Even so, I know myself and by the end of the year my sub will be up and I'll be out again for however long.
That is, until Legion remix happens. . .
I love Delves and the gear I'm getting from them. If Blizz takes them away, I'd probably unsub to be honest.
curious; how are you farming crests (more specifically the rune/gilded) WITHOUT M+? its not so much that i dont want to do M+ its more im just struggling with pugs to get clears above 3's/4's no matter how high the io or the lil thing of highest cleared on the tool tip, which also means my keys/io never get high enough to bring in/tempt others to join
To be transparent, I do not personally enjoy doing Delves.
With that said, I do not wish to take anything away from those players, that do prefer staying away from group content or just plain prefer a solo challenge.
I think Delves offer a great opportunity for those players to get Heroic track pieces, and honestly I wish that Bountiful Maps would offer you more than 3 Mythic track crests.
Still, what Delves in my opinion fail at is fitting in properly with regards to what level of gear you get compared to the difficulty of the content.
My point is not, that I do not wish for players without the time or wish to fully optimise their gameplay to also receive rewards.
My problem comes from how skewed the difficulty curve is right now.
With how powerful Brann is, as long as I can somehow stay alive, I am able to clear my level 8 Delves on my alts just after reaching level 80 and buying the baseline blue crafted gear and the Darkmoon Faire trinkets.
This just does not compare to the difficulty of either Raids or M+, both of which require significantly more gear before I can start doing them at a level that yields similar rewards and thus make me feel like those aren't worthwhile to do in comparrison.
I think Delves are a great addition to the game and that over time it would be fantastic, if they would allow you to gear up a character even with Mythic track pieces.
I just wish, that the rewards/difficulty of the content would be a bit closer to mirroring what we see in Raids and M+ dungeons. :')
just after reaching level 80.... Sure good for you lol
They need to put more gear in delves and alot more crest in them ! And mythic + suck so bad they are way to gimmicky this season hate them so much
Loving me some delves!
If we're gonna strip down delves, might as well remove the catalyst as well. M+ only runners shouldn't have access to raid tier set bonuses.
Thing is there is different gearing/talent requirements for Mythic+ and Raiding. I like raiding, but find it incredibly frustrating to be expected to do +10 Mythics and hearing the crybabies cry when we don't know the 'mechanics' when they don't even take the time to explain them. Like we are in discord...why not do a 30 sec recap on how they want to do the affixes because we all know every group does them different. I would much rather do my little delves, grabbing a few extra pugs to help out...and get my 615 slots in the vault...no pressure of mythic plus! (AND those are the slots that have given me tier pieces and BiS items! If people are running mythic plus to get raid gear, don't they know that anything in the mythic loot table can drop; and it might not be your BIS raid item? Not sure where the delves loot table comes from, but it seems to be pulling from everything?)
Just my opinion, but Blizzard has lost their minds with Mythic+, there is such a huge jump in difficulty that it's just really frustrating!
AND I did actually prove that bountiful delves 8/9 tier CAN be done with all DPS members and some of them 'under-geared'. It's a cake walk as long as you are ok with telling your group members how to do things that make it work. So if you have newer 80's in your guild, take them on some 8/9 delves and help them out!
To be fair you should know mechanics at a +10. Understandable if you don’t know mechs at a lower key but +10s are a lot harder after the reworks.
Solo content is very important because a lot of us don't have the time let alone the inclination to wait on groups or worry about being good or fast enough.
I don’t get the uproar over this stuff. Torghast criticism was legitimate, and the legendary crafting system didn’t seem to land the way Blizzard had intended. There was no other option for progression, you had to farm your crafting materials. There was massive Torghast burnout by the end of Shadowlands.
Delves are quite literally the exact opposite. Aside from cosmetics, achievements, and some other non player power rewards… you can NOT engage in a single delve (outside of the levelling campaign) and you won’t lose out on a single thing.
I’m on the spectrum and have a really dry sense of humor. I have a really, really hard time engaging with people through text because I’ll miss out on all the context of what the person is saying, and they’ll think I’m a bit of a dick because I use humor to disguise how lost I can end up getting. Most guilds that do any sort of raiding generally require discord and voice chat and I just… nah. I can’t do it.
Before LFR I had never stepped inside a raid while it was still current content.
I like the delves. Well, most of the delves. I like exploring and the delves that limit your ability to explore with poison gas, darkness, or being under water are the “one and done” delves for me.
I like Torghast more still. In terms of replayability it’s never been equalled or exceeded. Every class, and sometimes even individual specs, have their own unique ways of tackling the challenges before them. The RNG can be annoying at times but most of the powers do something really cool. Once it was no longer mandatory for player power, Torghast became REALLY fun.
So for people like me, the anti-social but not by choice folks, Dragonflight took a big step in the right direction towards providing a truly engaging solo experience at max level. TWW took that initial success, and then took it a step further.
I don’t understand the problem some people have with this. I’ve seen people call the behaviour gatekeeping, but I don’t think that’s quite right. It’s closer to just straight up being mean spirited, cruel, bullying behaviour. These parts of the game almost certainly won’t EVER be seen by these people, let alone have it impact their enjoyment of the game.
These people are the seagulls of the gaming world. Obnoxious, loud, mean, and crapping on other people just because they can. 😪
I'd even dare say they should bring back Torghast, make it queue-able as a delve. No need to give any lore explanation, just tag it as a timewalking deal or something. Some of the bosses on the higher difficulty Torghast floors and the crazy powers-builds you could make with many classes were legit fun.
Also. Another casual here, a dad, mythic + is way to time consuming and frustrating - finally delves are exactly what we needed. If anything they should make the gear better for
+9 / +11
Its actually the oposite, delves should reward even better gear. For now there is no reason to run higher than +8 cause vault and gear doesnt progress further.
They should create super delves like super dungeons and scale up to +15 or smth.
Dunno what the problem of people is, there is 0 negative aspect, of a solo player getting gear for you or your raid.
Why does it hurt you if I get gear?
Enjoying delves more than M+ because of the removal of timers, and hope they keep improving on them. Historically you only got the best gear from raids, then M+ was introduced and now we have Delves. WOW used to be fun before this rush rush keep moving timers took over the game. 25-5-1 Raid, M+ Solo its a good mix. Also Delves don't give Mythic raid gear and very small amount of crests to upgrade the hero gear so i think its in a good place not as high but still decent.
I personally don't think high end players care about gear earned by the riff-raff anymore, their prestige is garnered by the Mythic raiding title, M+ title and M+ rating, no amount of gear is going to earn you these accolades (although a crapton of gold can buy you a carry for some of this). I think Delve's has brought some additional pain and toxicity to mid key levels. The gear earned through Delves gives the impression that players can jump into these midkeys to progress their gearing, but the skill required is a country mile between T8 delves and midkeys, especially when done as a group. So, I agree it is the same old story, uncoordinated groups of people with easily obtained gear are trying to progress through content beyond their skill. Tale as old as time.
I think instead of nerfing delves, you should be able to use a bountiful key on mythic+ and Raid Content to guarantee a drop. For me, it's the guarantee that makes delves feel like a superior option.
that is a good compromise
It's guaranteed champion gear though, with a very small chance to get a map and a further chance to get a heroic piece you'd want.
Mythic+ ruined WoW. Delves are great, though. I now even raid with my guild twice a week. Last expansion, I would have quit by now until the next major content patch but Delves are keeping me entertained this time around.
I haven't done a lot in the way of delves, but I will be soon. ATM, I just feel like Heroics aren't the same. They hit harder and feel so tedious. In DF Heroics were so much chill fun. Now, I only do enough to max out my GV slots and move on to delves.
They will get easier as people get a bit better geared. The bigger issue is some of the dungeons are just bad, especially when pugging.
Ruined? It's 603 into a rare 610, that's baby gear
It's the M+ loot distribution that's unfair. Having the weekly goal (mythic vault) and the seasonal goal (portals) on the same difficulty is dumb.
So true, I’ve been asking a ton why is the weekly goal the same as the end of season goal. I honestly think on the same note the highest level delves (11 or ?? Zek) should just give m track in vault. Don’t call it a end game pillar if it’s shorter than the other ones but you have the bricks laying there to make it the same
I love be the challenge you really need to think brann DPS or healer..what spec do you need to use..what do you need to use in your kit..plus what everyone forgets is there gear and there stats.. it fantastic now I love don't change anything it perfect..
I’m loving Delves, and really appreciate being able to gear up through them. For their debut I think it made some sense to give them a head start so people would give the new thing a chance, but for future seasons and expansions, think it will make more sense for them to unlock at the same time as equivalent gear sources from dungeons and raids. I have almost all champion/hero gear from Delves (except wrists which have never dropped and I’m stuck on Explorer 8/8), which is wild and wouldn’t be upset if it was a little slower or if the highest gear tiers didn’t unlock right away.
It should go delve>heroic raid+low M+>M raid and high keys. Who is they? The .01%? This system is perfect for solo players and regular people to learn their classes and do it at increasing difficulty and learning to respect mechanics and coordinating pulls and high priority marks. This is the only reason I stayed. Try pugging raid is feels so different now. It feels good.
I am glad people are pushing back against the gatekeeping instead of just ignoring it which then has Blizzard making changes to appease the classic Andy's. If anything i hope they take the same thought process that helped them create delves & use that for other things in the future. Same with follower dungeons & "story mode" raids.
I was a high end raid lead for a fairly large guild back in the day. It was a second job, I had a girlfriend school and a night job. When ten man became available so it was a more responsible smaller group of people who enjoyed playing together the game got more fun and less like herding cats. Then some of them got jobs that made raid schedules impossible and eventually mythic plus became a fun option for us to continue getting together one night a week and play a challenging mode.
Delves are great continuation of those trends because I feel like there is something I can push myself on that doesn’t require me to sit down and commit a huge amount of time or organization. If I have to leave because I’m twenty years older than when I started playing this game and life happened, I walk away and lose nothing because my key isn’t consumed till the end. I feel the development of this game has trended toward respecting players time while still offering challenges and I am a big fan. The game needs to change with its player base and this is a good step for large (if not overly vocal) parts of the community.
The way delves arw now is the reason im still subbed. M+ can be toxi af on higher keys and raiding is another issue to pug ( i fan only pug as my time is limited and dont like to raid on schedule as i got a life outside wow)
Delves are fun and can be fast. All I hear from people complaining is "wahh I don't feel special anymore "
I returned to the game after not playing for years. I'm catching up on old content atm. Can someone tell me at what level do you begin delves?
This is a very thoughtful video. I am restricted on my game time. Delves and follower dungeons have been a great addition to the game and are exactly what I needed. I think the gearing speed and levels are good, but you’re right, I wouldn’t have noticed it if it was a little slower or slightly lower gear levels on the front end. I see them as a fun way to enjoy content without the time commitment and I get a prize at the end. I’m only at level 2 on my delves, and I’m really enjoying it. My opinion, Blizzard really nailed it. Keep up the great videos. I like your thoughts.
Just one question: is it actually viable to delve as a healer? How does that even work?
I'm very inept as a healer, but the idea with zekvir is to spec minimum healing to keep brann alive but still do the heavy lifting in destroying the egg.
I love delves and I love raiding, but constantly hearing comments from my raid leader about how m+ is more fun and harder than delves and how the vault slot item level is too high for delves and how delves are a chore for him... it's really a downer.
PLEASE someone tell me how he sees floating combat text in truncated numbers ie 100k/100m rather than 100,000
They shouldn't nerf the Delves. While they are fun, people will stop doing them if there isn't a reward. I have no desire to run Mythic Plus with toxic idiots. It's just not enjoyable for me. I'd prefer to do Delves. I also would like the option to do Heroic and Mythic with the AI team. I can start running the instance pause, get a cup of coffee if I want. I do them at a pace that I enjoy rather than lets see how fast we can do the Dungeon at record time. We should be able to get the same gear as raids. There are other things that demand my time than spending multiple nights a week with players that consider themselves elites. Let them raid with other people in that category so they can pat themselves on the back feeling awsome.
I do not do Mythic and do not do any normal / heroic raiding and so in my opinion I love to be able to do delve's and have the possibilty to get good end game gear to get near the same ilvl as thos who do do other content. If they change delves and lower the gear ilvl then this will in effect negate people wanting to do them.
I had wiped the "welfare epics" in WOTLK from my mind. Thanks for the reminder lol. It's funny that this was one of the most popular times in the game's history and people seethed, and now we're seeing it again and people are seething again.
I'm really enjoying delves, so maybe I'm biased, but it's so nice to just be able to chill and solo stuff but not feel like I'm letting my raid down because I'm not doing m+ to pad up my vault. I can listen to music while I do them without being on discord with my guild. I can go afk whenever I want. No timer, no pressure, no stress. I love it.
As someone who played through WotLK and Cata and came back for TWW, Delve's are a nice change of pace from the slow and frustrating grind that was gearing in the old expansions. I hated (HATED) farming heroic dungeons just so I could get to experience the end-game content, which was also a slow frustrating process that required a lot of luck to get the gear you wanted. With delves you can be ready to go to get to the end-game content without grinding heroics and lower level raids for weeks.
I hadn’t touched WoW since my first kid was born,12 years ago, and this expansion came at the right time, as I’m getting some of my free time back, and the content of this expansion seemed interesting. Delves and the solo and alt friendly changes to the game definitely clinched it for me. I’m having a blast, learning the changes to the game, and not having to deal with a guild of people I hardly know, and raid groups that’ll kick you if you miss one interrupt. Maybe in time I’ll get back to guilds and group play, but this is awesome for me now. If they turn around and make sweeping changes because of loud gatekeepers, I’m not so sure I’d stick around too long.
Some thing I noticed with gearing, it doesn't appear to be possible to gear only through 5 man dungs. The ilvl required for heroic queueing is 10+ ilvl higher than what drops in normal, forcing you to gear outside of the normal 5 man dungeons.
I agree that normal dungeons ought to at least drop explorer gear because it's really easy to get explorer-veteran gear from completing outdoor activities.
That said, currently it's really easy to get explorer-veteran gear from completing outdoor activities. Being "forced" as you suggest is a dubious argument hinging on some overly strict principle imo.
I’m loving delves - it feels like I finally have a meaningful end game to play after years of just noodling with lots of alts in world quests and more recently in weekly community events. I also really appreciate that you’re treating delves as serious content and putting together guides on them. Also thanks for dropping the ‘algorithm’ comment - great to know that you’re listening ❤.
I play roughly an hour a day. That kind of schedule doesn't allow me to hardcore raid and spend hours farming gear. The fact that delves are available to let me farm gear is HUGE. It is a way for me to enjoy a dungeon=like experience without having to get a group together to raid or do a dungeon. I avoid the inevitable toxic "get good" idiots that you run into whenever you PUG a dungeon or raid. Generally, I'm just enjoying the game more because I can choose when I want to take some more time and do raid or dungeon content at my own pace. It also gets people geared more easily for the initial raid and M+ content. I sincerely hope that delves/delve-like options are here to stay with upcoming expansions.
Bountiful delves keep giving the same items that you don't need. It's not like you fill a new armor slot every time you go in. It takes a lot of time and work to get fully geared from delves. There people need to stop crying... delves are awesome. I especially like how the "stories" in delves rotate.
Thanks for the video. As a player that doesn’t have time to put much into the game and don’t enjoy group content much delves seem to really fill that niche for players like me which is more common than the M+ raider crowd realizes. Plus getting gear in delves doesn’t guarantee the same type of higher larger quantity of options for gear as those that ALSO do mythic and raiding for the great vault that just doing delves restricts you to
I am in a guild and attend weekly raid and obtain AOTC. I also play M+ on one character but I dont push heavily - typically takes a season to obtain the 2k points needed. I avoid pugging M+ and find my self closing out the game if that was to be the only form of gear progression. Delves have solved all that and I really enjoy them. It provides me an opportunity to work with any of my alts and my main and still have the opportunity of decent gear. It does NOT negate any other content.
@Soulsobreezy it's nice to hear you've gotten some boost to views etc. With all the content you have done for TWW it's good to hear it has paid off 👍🏻
There's been numerous times I have guided people to watch your profession videos because I genuinely think they were great and helpful videos. Could say the same of the Delve guide etc! So as long as you keep doing the great job as you have I will make sure to keep recommending your videos to people too 😎🤘🏻
For me, it really comes down to time vs reward. Having something you can do in 15-30min and have the chance at a gear piece upgrade is great. Not waiting on queues and other people in raids etc. is amazing.