In 1939 highly nationalist FINLAND fought back hard against the international socialist movement from the USSR. That was NATIONALISM, and Finnish nationalism never led to attacking others (other than fighting back vs the USSR)
Thanks for giving away what this channel and ideas are really about. We need more neonazi comments like these, so casual viewers can realise what's really intended with these films.
@@Oscuros Its a point of discussion in the video itself. The host uses the example of nationalist Greece resisting fascist Italy, while the OP rightfully notes Finland fighting the USSR is another great example. So how exactly is he a neonazi? Were the Finns nazis for defending themselves from invasion?
Just wanted to say I am thankful for StJ for recommending this channel. It is my new favorite channel by far. Thank you AGR for making some of the most interesting and impressive videos I have seen yet. :)
I must say i was introduced to Jesus early, it never felt right. And i drowned as a 2 year old. At the time didnt understand the significance of the valkry pushing me back. Now i know the difference. I always thought i saw angels. Was i wrong! Followed many pathes to get to this place. But i can proudly say i am an animist. I am a germanic pagan. Thank you to both of you for your work! Makes a hige difference in my life! Sheds a light on where these natural belives come from! Keep it up! And i know im a couple years late.....
Excellent discussion! Also, you should get Curwen Rolinson on for more details of the connections between Indo-European religions. Just be prepared for a 6 hour interview ;)
The practice of yoga has been thought to date back to pre-vedic Indian traditions; possibly in the Indus valley civilization around 3000 BCE. Yoga is mentioned in the Rigveda,and also referenced in the Upanishads, though it most likely developed as a systematic study around the 5th and 6th centuries BCE, in ancient India's ascetic and Śramaṇa movements. The chronology of earliest texts describing yoga-practices is unclear, varyingly credited to the Upanishads.The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali date from the 2nd century BCE,[12][13] and gained prominence in the west in the 20th century after being first introduced by Swami Vivekananda.Hatha yoga texts began to emerge sometime between the 9th and 11th century with origins in tantra.
I am still not convinced karma is an IE concept and vedic texts were talking abt heaven(svarga) and hell(naraka).So that also raises the question did the indo aryans even believe in reincarnation?
@@vids569 As far as I know, the idea of reincarnation in which the same soul literally reincarnates in a new physical body is actually not an Indo-European concept, but rather Dravidian, native to India before the Aryan invasion/migration. The Indo-Europeans, as well as many other peoples around the world, did not believe in literal reincarnation of one unchanging soul, but believed in a transformation or metamorphosis of some kind. For instance, most of the ancestors were believed to have gone underground (Hell/Hades) but they would rejoin the living during ceremonies and festivities, they would eat and have fun alongside the living. Other ancestors - the bravest and most honorable, were believed to have gone to a heavenly place like Elysium or Valhalla. Going through Hell or Valhalla was perceived as a path of transformation of the soul in which the soul itself was changing its own state of being. However, one could argue that the Indo-Europeans also believed that some part of the ancestors lived within them (and thus were always with them) because of blood lineage, so it's kind of complicated.
of course it is from India. These people desperately want to attach themselves to India because nowhere else can such advancements be seen. The truth is they were not advanced enough to be sedentary. It's impossible to think they could have influenced anyone, much less the Indus Valley.
One thing I will say (and I may be wrong about this): The host seems to be lumping the Minoan and Mycenaean cultures together as similar to each other and opposed to the Indo-European Dorian culture. From my understanding, the Mycenaean and Dorian cultures were essentially two waves of the same Indo-European group coming down from the North into Greece and conquering/mixing with the earlier, pre-Indo-European Minoans, etc. Achilles, Odysseus, etc. WERE warrior Mycenaeans, and, by extension, Indo-Europeans.
I have had no experiences in life that attest to divinity. In fact, quite the opposite. My belief in Santa Claus and Christ were both extinguished when I was about eight years old. Since that time, I have been fascinated by the beliefs of others, which are so completely irrational to me, but absolutely sincere for them. This is my attraction to mythology. It is the story of human nature and it is interesting to explore. In modern times the poets of memory, the keepers of the story, are passing. They are yielding to digital recall. Unlike the indents of cuneiform, our bits of recall will oxidize beyond reconstruction. In the distant future, while the Epitaph of Seikelos may still endure, will anything of our songs remain?
I am personally envious of true believers myself. It's something that I've never managed so far, although the study of religions has been a part of my life. There is a great book on the art of memory you might enjoy: g.co/kgs/CAeyHs
I had a similarly 'materialistic' stance, until I discovered the rationale for a transcendent view of reality. We understand so very little really, so looking at things from a purely materialistic perspective truly does diminish what reality is actually like to experience. My suggestion is to read "The Antichrist" by Nietzsche, it awakened something within me, and may within you. Not discounting your perspective at all, just a polite suggestion. Reality is so much more than the senses or our logic can ascertain.
There's a curious or fitting correspondence between the Indo-Europeans bringing their male pantheon and mating it to the female pantheon of those cultures they conquered, something closely mirrored to the genetics where so many of the daughter cultures have female inheritance from the neolithic predecessor and male inheritance from the invading Indo-Europeans.
Yes, that is definitely one way to look at it. However, there is another ... Because this idea of mythological evolution, from the matriarchal Minoan "Great Goddess" types to the patriarchal Indo-European "Sky God", fits almost perfectly to the stages of psychological development that a child goes through while growing. Have a look here: g.co/kgs/gBXqLG
wrong, gay, and cringe. "Sex bias in the formation of Yamnaya? An objection I have seen about our model of the early Indo-European language history is that (supposedly) the Yamnaya were formed by admixture of EHG men with women from the Caucasus and this would imply a female-mediated language spread. The simple CHG-EHG model gives a CHG estimate of: 51.9+/- 1.3% (autosomes) 34.2+/- 8.5% (chrX) In other words, the evidence is (2.1 s.e.) in favor of male CHG bias and _not_ the opposite"
This is very interesting. I've said for a long time that the Gernanic tribes resembled Tibetan societies. The sexual practices certainly are more in line with Tibetan religious practices. They are what I would classify as a Righteous society as opposed to Luciferic or Satanic.
Mycenaeans were already genetically and culturally Indo-European prior to the Dorian invasion in the Bronze Age collapse. And judging by the genetic literature the proto-Hellenic Indo-European invaders first appeared in northern Greece sometime in the Middle Bronze Age, so sometime around 2600-2000BC, and these people had around 30-50% steppe-related ancestry (proto-Indo-European). So the Indo-European ethnic and cultural element was already present in the mainland Greek peoples prior to 1200BC for at least 1000 years and was not first brought in by the Dorians, who would have been a relatively similar people to the Mycenaeans with perhaps slightly more elevated levels of steppe ancestry. Minoans on the other hand were pre-Indo-European and Pelasgian as you say. Either way, great talk and pleased to see STJ as a guest :)
That is correct. The Myceneans were in fact Indo-European, as their language testifies. I find myself "simplifying" this great history by sometimes omitting them from the equation. Perhaps we should dedicate more time on their culture.
@@lysander6458 Minoans shouldn't have any. That is the point that we were making, that Indo-Europeans came after and over the Minoans, not before. Now as to the Myceneans, I would not be surprised either. I may have implied that Myceneans were fully Indo-Europeans in my reply above *, and that would be wrong from my part, so I want to correct it here . The Mycenean language was truly an early form of Greek - which is an IE language - which goes some way to show trace some ancestry. Their culture however, and as much as some would like to believe it was the historical Homeric culture, was NOT typically Indo-European. In aspect, it might have looked like a Greek version of ancient Egypt, with a priest-king (rather than warrior-king) at the center of a great palatial complex, gathering the grain from his entire kingdom, storing it in giant warehouses, and distributing it back to his people. A "bureaucratic monarchy" is what some historians have called it, which is a far cry from the Homeric world. In fact, the Myceneans were very literal while in the Iliad (and with the exception of two verses) there is no mention of either reading or writing! Then again, if you compare them with the Minoans, the Myceneans were in fact closer to Indo-Europeans, as the latter used the same script but for a non-Greek language, and it seems their culture was even more "Egyptian," ritualistic, even matrilineal (not matriarchal). So, if we had to take a wild guess, we could say that Myceneans were an early wave of Indo-Europeans who got mostly absorbed by the native culture they conquered, still retaining an upper-class of early-Greek speakers as kings. * I may have rushed the reply, it's just that I get slack for forgetting to mention them at all!
Of course. Many but not too many well educated people are aware of this. Aryan‘s Land. They changed from Persia to Iran in the twenties, I think. Persia they were called by the Colonialists/ Anglo-Saxons/Europeans, therefore they changed it.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited For the information of you Greeks, I must say that the word Aryan is only for Iranians and Indians, that is, Indo-Iranian peoples. This word was taken from the Zoroastrians' Avesta and the Hindu Rig Veda in the 19th century, when Western researchers were looking for the word "beautiful" for the Nordic race. It is better to say that they were stolen. The word Aryan is used as a tribe for the first time in the Achaemenid inscriptions in Rostam by Darius the Great. Even the Greek historian Herdot mentioned Iranian Medes with the name of Aryans. The race of the people of Northern Europe is Nordic and has nothing to do with Aryans.
@@lowersaxon Persia was the name of a part of Iran, by the way, you say the opposite, the western countries put this name in geographical maps to name Iran, otherwise, in the historical books of Iran, for example, in the Shahnameh book of Ferdowsi, the name of Iran and Iranshahr is available, and it was approved by the Shura Council a hundred years ago. Its national name was changed from Persia to its real name, Iran. Found
Always loved Ancient Greece and Rome as a child. I have English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish in me, as well as some minor Southern Italian (Sicily and Campania). I do wonder if I have some Greek ancestry due to the heavy colonization of Sicily and Southern Italy, via Magna Graecia. The Indo-European influence on Ancient Greece probably came in two separate waves, an older one from the Mycenaeans in the Early Bronze Age, and the other from the hypothetical Dorians towards the Late Bronze Age. We need a comparison of Early Bronze Age (EBA), Early-Middle Bronze Age (EMBA), Late Bronze Age, and Early Iron Age Greek, Anatolian, and Italian genomes to truly get a better picture.
That is correct, the Myceneans were probably Indo-European. Their language is an early form of Greek. In fact, what made the deciphering of Minoan scripts (Linear A) so difficult was the fact that it used the same characters... but for a different language: the Minoan, which was not Indo-European. It was like writing "greeklish" as we say here in Greece: Greek with Latin characters.
You know it's a strange thing. I'm half Welsh & half Native American though my DNA says that I also have some anglo saxon genetic markers from somewhere as well. No idea which ancestor it would've been. Though it's said on my native American side that we descend from giants. My great grandfather was Shoshone(uto aztecan language family) & he was 6.5 ft tall w/ blue eyes & 6 fingers/toes on each hand/foot. I've been digging really deep into it over the years. Nice work though guys. Well done.
Great stuff. But don't forget that DNA is not deterministic. Think of children for instance, each child is clearly a mix of two parents, yet, they are not really "half their father" in any meaningful sense. If their father was a master painter for example, they wont predictably be mediocre painters themselves because they got half of that genius. It's not how it works and we know that when we look at individuals. With people it should be no different. Greek culture, which is the subject of my personal inquiry, is half Indo European and half Minoan. Very broadly speaking of course. But the Greeks were unique. Their poetry, Indo European in origin, featured the first notions of tragedy, which is entirely unique in human culture. It's not "Aryan" in any historical sense. We must never forget the uniqueness of cultures by collapsing it to their "ancestral" cultures.
@@AncientGreeceRevisitedim very familiar & that's true, however the DNA most certainly came from somewhere & it's where my people say it came from that has caught my interest. After studying bones all over the world there are multiple types of human being that have been intermixed w/ our own. We've become rather homogenous in many ways. Luckily on my fathers side I know my entire lineage going back 1500years so I know where that part of me comes from but my native American heritage isn't so clear. I have to say though that many native American tribes are genetically distinct peoples who all came to this continent different ways. Some where already here & some walked but some state quite emphatically that they sailed here from a land torn by war & cataclysm. All this being said it's hard not to feel like we are missing something in our understanding of how our history actually went. Heck most of the stuff taught in school is still rife w/ mistakes & outright fibs from the Victorians. Lol
@@JCOwens-zq6fd True. All I was saying is that we are more like chemical reactions. Water is H2O. Both H and O are gases, and water is a liquid. You could study these components separately all you wanted and you would never come up with the notion of liquidity. There are emerging properties that are not reducible to their elements. Be careful not to exchange "Victorianism" with "reductionism."
@@AncientGreeceRevisited We have to be careful not to fall into any logical fallacies etc. I tend to approach things from a stand point of data. I have a multiple number of data points to observe & the more point in the same direction the more the statistical chances increase. As the victorians & what they left us go. I tend to accept what can be proven. For example we still teach children in school the whole story about Paul Revere yet we know according to all the records from the time that he was captured by the British & never made it near concorde or otherwise. Plus any number of other theories & stories that we continue to perpetuate & enshrine in verse, song, film etc. I've been in academia, traveled the world, learned the languages of these peoples, talked to them & after all that ive found some disturbing trends that have more to do w/ politics than anything. I just want to know what's true & restore the history of my people. Regardless of what it is.
Ancient Indians called Greeks "Yavan". The Bible refers to Ionian Greeks as "Javan." Dorian Greeks stood out among the other Greek ethnos because they looked more like northern Euros, but they were said by people like Josephus and Paul etc to be from Shem. The Ionians and other Greeks worshipped Iapetus (Jupiter in Rome) as their progenitor..this is clearly Japheth, father of Javan. You may not believe in the Bible or follow the Christian God but this is only a couple out of many connections to Europeans and these west Asian lands also. What do you think of these?
Most eastern languages call Greeks “Ionians” in one way or another. That is probably because it was this particular tribe who came in contact with them. Turks call us “Yunan” or something similar.
I think only in India we can have discussion on Indo-European culture without being labelled as Nazi. One can create a good research organization in India where people from all over the world can share ideas without a backlash. (Maybe there can be another kind of backlash from the leftist)
That's ironic, given that India is the main source of Indo-Aryan Migration denial, most videos on the Indo-Aryan Migrations are usually peppered with Indian Nationalist comments, who will go as far as saying that Indo-Europeans came from India and that it's nazi/white supremacist propaganda.
The point is:the moment north indian upper castes begin to "celebrate" their IE heritage,its the end.They lose the right to exist in India and will lose the support of intermediary and lower castes politically.This explains why the NI upper castes are delusional about AIT and post videos "debunking" AIT whereas southerners are more comfortable with this theory
I hope you were pleasantly surprised however. And yes, Hercules is pre-Greek, most probably. I don't remember what we said with Tom about this hero, but I don't think we made him an example of Indo European culture. I consider Hercules a bit like Thor. The Norse god's goat-chariot and Hercule's blunt weapon, both betray their pre-Indo-European roots.
@@teo2975 Well said Teo. It’s usually a problem of confusing the bricks for the house. A house is made of bricks, but it’s actually its shape that makes it a house. Similarly, you can find pre-Greek elements in every aspect of Greek culture, but it’s the way these are put together that makes them Greek.
So The Rig Veda would be a Product of Our Aincient Ancestors as well? And we are Distantly Related to the Indians over there on the Subcontinent?? .... COOL
It’s not so much that we are genetically related to Indians it’s more that European people at some point had massive influence in the northern region of India bringing along the Indo European culture, Which we can still see alive and well today
@@admiralkipper4540 these stone dwllers not advanced enough to be sedentary influenced the Indus? haha. Everything you claim is found in India, which is actual proof. You have no evidence of a culture much less civilization. Show the proof not assumptions that you made any contribution to India. They aren't making the connection; it's you hoping to be part of them. You have zero evidence except to show you hated your ancestors and worship the Indians.
Very interesting, thank you gentlemen. There's no doubt that Europeans are the civilisation that IndoEuropeans founded. Elsewhere, IndoEuropeans either died out, were subsumed by a preexisting civilisation, or were assimilated into an expanding civilisation.
Not true only linguistically there’s more continuum between Southern European ethos and logos in the near East than in early yamnaya. The Greeks and romans were not anymore like the Vikings than they were like the Egyptians
At 25:00, eh autosomal DNA isn't all that due to it being recombinant, I don't want to diminish it as you can infer a lot from it but haplogroups pertaining Y chromosomal DNA and mitochondria DNA represents the genetics of unbroken lineages paternal and maternal respectively, where one can even accurately predict the time periods when and where the ancestral men and to a lesser extent the women lived due to predictable mutation rates. They're not like for like data but it does help us understand anthropology nonetheless.
ARYAN COWBOYS - important topic. There is an essay called "The Roots of the White Man" by Sam Francis that talks about these parallels between the early Aryan cattle-drivers and the heroic cowboy/frontiersman mythology of the American West. You will also want to read "The Evolution of the Cow-Puncher" by Owen Wister (author of the first respectable literary Western novel called 'The Virginian: Horseman of the Plains') which traces the character of the cowboy back to knights on horseback of Arthurian legend and Anglo-Saxon England. One might even trace it back further to those ancient "steppe barbarians" now called the Indo-Europeans. What were the early "Aryans" if not cowboys and horsemen of the plains? But now there seems to be no more frontiers to explore. Unless, of course, we bring up more SPACE COWBOYS in the coming generations.
That is great stuff. I always felt that when these first Europeans went to the Americas they somehow re-enacted their foundation myth of the horse-back warrior. I will look into these essays...
the word aryan comes frokm sanskrit arya, meaning civilized, righteous follower of vedic tradition. you do not find it in any european literature of the past, only indian. so they were early indians
you know, ironically, i think the reason why people obsess over aryans is the same reason pagans claim people obsess over abraham: there is no other alternative
3 роки тому+1
Zeus' chariot was pulled by goats as well. I have a few quandaries with what was discussed here such as Odin being related to Mercury as opposed to Saturn. Loki far better resembles Mercury as both were messengers of storm gods.
Please send us some links with more details about this, as we'd love to investigate your claims. To my knowledge, the Greeks did see Hermes (Mercury) in the face of Odin. But maybe we will stand corrected.
I think shani oates talks about a saturnian connection it in her book odin the hanged god, I haven't finished the whole book yet, but it is a great read nonetheless.
To correct the speaker, the Aryans are not 'the indo-europeans' but a subgroup with absolute consensus among academics. The Aryans are part of the indo-iranian family.
True. But the word “Aryan” is present in both India and Europe (it’s in the Greek texts). So in that sense you might say it spans the Indoeuropean world.
Hi dear friend. I am very happy that someone has finally realized that the Aryans are Indo-Iranian and have nothing to do with European tribes. Special thanks from Iran for you.
Hi dear friend. I am very happy that someone has finally realized that the Aryans are Indo-Iranian and have nothing to do with European tribes. Special thanks from Iran for you.
@@VeniVidiVandaliAuz Dear friend, with all the respect I have for you. But I disagree about the origin of their residence. These are all the ideas of European researchers about the Aryan race from a hundred years ago at most. But the presence of Aryans in Iran and India is at most 7000 years ago, which is found in the Zoroastrian Avesta and Indian Rig Veda, and the works left by them go back to at least 4500 years ago in Iran. An example of that is the Naqsh Rostam inscription in Persepolis in Iran, where Dariush Daran introduces himself as the son of a Persian and from the Aryan tribe. In addition, the faces carved in Rostam's carvings are all Iranian and have an oriental appearance. No Nordic. These are all imaginations of Western researchers
Εντάξει είστε φοβερό κανάλι! Τι θα λέγατε να κάνετε ένα αμιγώς ελληνόφωνο βίντεο περι Ινδοευρωπαίων, Πρωτοελλήνων κτλ; Το χρειαζόμαστε ως χώρα γιατι ο αντι-ινδοευρωπαϊσμός εδώ πάει...σύννεφο (αρκεί να πατήσετε ινδοευρωπαίοι και θα δείτε τι σαχλές αναλύσεις πρωτοφιγουράρουν στο ελληνικό youtube). Θα είναι αντιδημοφιλές, αλλά το "χρειαζόμαστε". Κάνετε βιντεάρες!
Ευχαριστούμε πάρα πολύ! Είναι τέτοια σχόλια που μας κάνουν να συνεχίζουμε... Η ιδέα του Ελληνόφωνου βίντεο περνάει συχνά από το μυαλό μας, όμως έτσι όπως το έχουμε στήσει προς το παρών είναι αμιγώς αγγλόφωνο, καθώς η βασική ιδέα είναι "ένας Έλληνας που μιλάει στους ξένους... για την Ελλάδα". Ελπίζουμε όμως να μπορέσουμε σύντομα να κάνουμε κι άλλα πράγματα, στα Ελληνικά αυτή τη φορά, όπως κάποια σειρά/ντοκυμαντέρ, ακόμα και παράσταση ... Επίσης, εάν σου άρεσε το θέμα, σίγουρα θα σου αρέσει και η σειρά μας για την Αργοναυτική εκστρατεία, ιδιαίτερα το 3ο και 4ο μέρος, όπου μιλάμε για τον Ιάσωνα και τη Μήδεια σαν "εκπροσώπους" της Ινδοευρωπαϊκής και Μινωικής Ελλάδας αντίστοιχα. ua-cam.com/play/PLpKJ4OweBXmvTwXVrXAqwZTEtVwkNNKbi.html
@@AncientGreeceRevisited Eυχαριστώ για την απάντηση και για την πρόταση του βίντεο, σίγουρα θα το δω, όπως κι ό,τι άλλο έχετε ανεβάσει. Έχω δει ελάχιστα ως τώρα για να είμαι ειλικρινής, καθότι καινούργιος εδώ: για τον λυσιμελή έρωτα και τα τρίγωνα της Σαπφούς, για τον Ωνάση, αυτό με τον StJ, τη συνέντευξη που πήρατε από τον Ράγκο και μια συνέντευξη που δώσατε πέρσι στον Βέλγο "Φιλέλληνα". Πραγματικά είστε αξιέπαινοι και για τη θεματολογία, και για το πώς την παρουσιάζετε, και για τους προβληματισμούς που θέτετε, και επίσης για τη γενικότερη αισθητική των βίντεο η οποία είναι ΚΑΤΑΠΛΗΚΤΙΚΗ! Και μόνο που δηλώνετε ότι έχετε επηρεαστεί και από Κορνήλιο Καστοριάδη αλλά και από την Konservative Revolution ταυτόχρονα, μου αρκεί για να καταλάβω πόσο προχωρημένα απροκατάληπτοι είστε, πράγμα εξαιρετικά σπάνιο στην εποχή μας.
@@KataDaemonaEaftou Ευχαριστώ λοιπόν κι εγώ προς απάντηση. Δεν είναι πολλοί εκείνοι που μπορούν να "πιάσουν" τις αναφορές αυτές, όπως και το (εσκεμμένα) "αντιφατικό" σε αυτές. Πιστεύω ότι όσα περισσότερα από τα βίντεο μας βλέπεςτε, τόσο θα καταλάβετε και το γενικότερο όραμα.
1:35:31 just by chanting name of Krishna you will be saved. Please keep in mind that this belief is held by "Vaishnav sect" of Hinduism only and it is not supported by any of the core vedic text (vedas, Brahman, aryannyaks or smritis).
Yes, I think that Tomas said something along the lines of "it was mostly added for extra effect." I don't remember his exact words however, but that is the feeling that I've retained. So yes, I did expect this particular point on Krishna to be a minor one in the whole theology.
a decade ago in the Amazon Basin of Peru I used Ayahuasca......It made me "go" at both ends all night with crumby hallucinations, and caused endless dizziness. At the start I "saw" the 4th dimension for some minutes. That's the whole story.
These experiences are notoriously difficult to capture in words. Everything must be put in quotes if justice be served ;-) Yet, this does not mean they are but metaphors. Throughout them one has the sense that what they are experiencing is "more real than reality." It's only a sense, but then again, isn't that same sense what we use to distinguish dream from waking life?
@@AncientGreeceRevisited so true..the next morning we went Dow the tributary where our lodge was and out onto the mighty Amazon . We the 5 meter long pink porpoises breaching. We dove into the river. They swam away. But there was such an amazing panoply of sound under water
@@AncientGreeceRevisited I am a clinical psychologist. Re: reality, substances, and returning to a typical consciousness it has been related to me by heterosexual males that while on certain drugs at parties that they became sexually involved with another male. Some time later he calls the other heterosexual male about doing it again sober. The response was that it had been just a one off drug experience. The caller is disappointed having found a new way of relating to another guy. But, for the other it was just being high at a party
Yes Krishna is Most likely derived from gods of Indus valley civilization.but later on he was considered as the avatar of Vishnu(who is a vedic deity).
@@extratropicalcyclone8567 none of the blue deities in hinduism are vedic, blue skin according to hindu doctrine is blackness, i.e the appearance of indus valley natives
@@Flammenhagel rubbish propaganda, vishnu as well as krishna are vedic gods, the one who compiled vedas, veda vyas, is dark skinned man, also an arya. arya is not a racial erm rather a linguistic.
min 1:12...the Finnish language has the KALEVALA........Finno-Ugric......written down 1st in the 1800's......Tales were memorized and some old women could sing these straight for 24 hours. The language Finnish is a hybrid of Finno-Ugric and Indo-European. Some scholars note that the best language to study for an understanding of Proto-Indo-European is Finnish because as a very conservative language it retains the very, very old forms.Numerous farming terms are examples of this.
And yet, the Kalevala is an epic with no sword-fighting! This would be unthread of in the cultures closer to the original Indo-Europeans. I find this example significant, because our cultures in Europe have been so influenced by those Indo-Europeans that without the Kalevala ot would be difficult to conceive of an alternative to the war-epics that we have been accustomed by Homer.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited yes....that has struck many readers readers. The Finnish speakers according to some historians were seen as strange (maybe that is how se all see different peoples). They were seen as masters of the magical arts from the Middle Ages into the early 20th Century (even, I read, as far south as Italy. Vikings wanted a Finn on board ,often as a sail maker, due to their ability to exert control over the wind. the book, Two Years Before the Mast by Richard Henry Dana Jr., published in 1840 has a part in which a sailor on board speaks about the Finns' ability to control the wind. And THAT was in the 1800's!
@@johnl5316 In the Kalevala, the magical powers are acted through singing. The Finns are still a very musical people. There is an inter-generational thing going on there.
Your podcast is called "on tyranny". Hmm, I think I should watch a few videos of T. R. channel (which I didn't know) to understand what you'll be talking about. Right now I don't see the connection with "tyranny".
This podcast started as an attempt to apply our research on ancient Greece on the current crisis, as of the global pandemic. Many things came up, like the way our minds are conditioned to accept a certain narrative about how events are unfolding, and then... one thing led to the other, and here we are talking about Indo-Europeans. But the connecting thread is that this subject is also considered as a "dangerous" one by mainstream media, allegedly because of its connections with Germany during WW2. In this interview we are clarifying a lot of the backlash that the idea of an Indo-European culture has had as of late, and the real reasons behind it.
It's a theory, to be sure. But the dogmatism of certain followers is only matched by the dogmatism of its deniers. There is narrow-mindedness on both ends, and we tried to walk the line between these extremes. Thank you for listening.
Krishna is not indo European or vedic. Krishna and his followers often insult vedic god indra which is the same deity as thor, jupiter, zeus, perun, taranis, terunt or PIE perkunos
indra is a bmac non-indo-european deity, we know this because, like many greek deities, there is no plausible indo-european etymology for his name, nor is there even a characteristically proto-indo-european equivalent of his, we even have the name of the original deity he replaced, verethragna, preserved in zoroastrian scriptures, and in vedic epithets, another indication of this is the fact that he introduced a great many new traditions to indo-aryan cultures, the big one being soma-drinking of course, which, like most other newer indo-aryan traditions, has archeological evidence in the former territories of the bmac
@@Flammenhagel thats not true. Indra is actually a very regular Indo Aryan formation from √ind-. To find out its possible meaning from the context, we can also consider if there are other words from this root. Usually, words are borrowed into a language, not specifically a root. And we see the same root comes in the word indu. (used for Soma and moon) We also see a word indriya that means “strength” in the Vedic Sanskrit. it can be easily deduced that √ind- means to “increase”, “prosper” or “swell”. The only task would be just to find the Indo European form of the the root √ind-, which is not difficult. It fits PERFECTLY with being the nasal injected into PIE *h₂eid that means “to swell”. Now If you add pie suffix -rós to this root which is used to Form adjectives from Caland system roots you get pie *h₂indrós Which in Sanskrit will become indra with perfect sound change correspondence
@@abhinavchauhan7864 also this is not at all coherent with indo european grammar, the root "ind" was first proposed by vopadeva in recent times, and, when properly applied, would result in the name "indos" not "indra"
@@abhinavchauhan7864 interestingly enough, the thunder god motive is said to have spread out via the proto-semites, and there was a population of iranian farmers, which invaded india some thousand years before the indo-aryans, that had high amounts of proto-semitic ancestry, so there might be some even older roots to indras attributes than the bmac, but he's definitely unique for sure, theres no doubt about that
@@AncientGreeceRevisited Greek is used to denote the period after the great mental enslavement starting with the Roman invasion and continuing to this day. Read and keep searching then you will understand that the Christians are really the pagans.
Germany had IMPERIALISM as a motivator, not nationalism. Hitler and his crew saw Nationalism as petit bourgeois ( remember the 3rd Reich; 1st was Rome, then The HolyRoman Empire) and saw "the Church" as a longer term threat than communism
1. Who, please tell me, did not have Imperialism as the motivator? The Brits? France, Tsarist Russia? China? ( yes!), Japan? 2. The third Reich? Completely wrong, my friend. 1. Reich was Holy Roman Empire (originating from the catholic Franks), the 2. was unified Germany from 1871 to 1918. Hitler despised Christianity, but had some respect for the catholic church which had survived for 2000 years. Clearly, he hated communism far more than „the Church“, sorry, thats a matter of fact. The quasi- religion of the future in his dreams being Nat. Soc. itself.
Yes indeed. The professors played down their Catholicism, but we had two separate classes for religious education between Orthodox and Catholics. It was always a mystery to us as to what they were telling those kids in "Catholic class" ;-)
There is no evidence of any invasion into India by these roamers from the West. PIE is also a made up language by modern "scholars". There is no archaeological evidence of an invasion into India. Also, while the Greeks talked about Indians and the Indian influence on Greece is clearly noted, the Indians rarely if ever bothered with the Greeks. See Srikant Taligere on what the Greeks owe the Indians.The obsession was one way
Tom should now much more that I do about an invasion into India. But as for a similar invasion into the Greek peninsula, it most probably happened. This does NOT mean that once, somewhere during the 12 century BC, a band of horsemen (or chariot men more likely) from the eurasian plains lined up in front of a Pelasgian settlement waiting for the order to charge! It happened gradually, and in sequential waves. The invasion is a "summary" of a process that might have lasted half a millenia, but as such, it's still a valid metaphor. What you need to remember is that the Greeks themselves believed in something like this. The Spartans for sure, through of themselves as "settlers" in their own lands, orginally coming from the North with the "sons of Heracles"
Its Arya (आर्य) anglicised as Aryan. Arya means 'Children of God' ( ईश्वरपुत्र; Ishwarputra), one who abided by the word of God. God revealed Vedas at the very beginning of the humanity on the planet. Name of religion is Dharma its scripture is Veda and the adherents are called Arya. Western scholars distorted this sanskrit term and mistaken it for a racial identity.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited Aryans were spread from norther India to Anatolia and central Asia. Vedic terms like Indra, Varuna and Marut etc are inscribed on Bogazkhoi inscriptions in Turkey, in central asia the homa tradition is very evident in archeological findings.
I thought Arya, or “Aryan”, meant noble. Anybody was capable of being an Aryan. As long as you spoke Sanskrit, rode horses, adopt a warrior culture, invoke Indra in worship, and was a patriarch alpha.
@@raan2deep Yes, Aryas are called noble also because they are God abiding people. When European scholars read Mahabharata and Ramayan were Lord Krishn and Lord Ram were called as 'Arya' they came with a theory that the word 'Arya' meant only for the royal classes, but in fact this term were denoting there religion and there righteousness.
@@AbhishekTiwari1111 I'm not disagreeing with you. I, personally, would protest this idea that being "God abiding" would make someone noble. I would say that deeds should make a man noble, and not the fact that he believes in a higher power.
Why don't you interview Nicholas Kazanas a Greek scholar who proposed and believes in the Out of Theory - A theory that states that the Indo-European languages originated in India. In all repect to Thomas Rowsell, he does not know what he is talking about and certainly lacks the nuance understanding of the Indo-European tradition. He is describing the Indo-Europeans as an Abrahamic one although he trying not to. Prof Kazanas is a linquistics and a Sanskrit scholar who knows the Indic and Greek tradtions. You should read his papers on this matter online and watch some of his videos on UA-cam. In would be nice in you can get him on your show, it will be a great discussion since you both belong to the Greek tradtiion.
@@raghavarvoltore6517 I know that you didn't. But near the beginning of this video, Thomas said how his master's degree was about horse sacrifice in Indo-European peoples. You said that his description of them is "Abrahamic", and I am wondering how can this be given that Thomas stressed this type of sacrifice as an integral part of Indo-European cultures?
@@AncientGreeceRevisited In your video Mr Thomas was not only discussing about "IE horse sacrifice" but IE's in general. His description of the IE peoples are Abrahamic like because he describes them as war-like warriors fighting their way arcoss Eurasia whorshipiing their Father God Zeus/Dyaus/Jupiter/Indra. They were very patriarchal, manly and heroic in their behaviour and this allowed them to convert a lot of non-IE people into their way of life which was mostly through warfare. But Mr Thomas is not trying to describe them as Abrahamic like but he nonetheless does. Of cource this is all wrong, and what better scholar to discuss this then Mr Nicholas Kazanas who is an expert in this field and who knows Greek and Sanskrit. Best to invite him and ask questions that your already asked Mr Thomas. You will learn much more from him then you'll ever learn from any other mainstream IE scholar.
saying Ax is only for war is in time domain silly, Ax was used for building dwellings hunt 1000s of uses building fire etc etc occasionally in 1000s of years a tiny skirmish broke out for a day or week or a ten year tit for tat war pace was slower ...
You mentioned a yoga guru having an unbroken line of inheritance back thousands of years. This is unlikely as yoga was invented in recent times with a veneer of antiquity to help popularise it. I agree with your general point that some Indian mystics (although I would say relatively few) have long lines of inheritance, but yoga is a modern practice that some people portray as ancient because that is good for branding. And I think this has happened often in Indian religion as each new generation reinvents its own traditions in various ways, and it would have happened in ancient Europe too.
That is very interesting what you've said there. Please send us some links here to investigate further. Apart from that, however, I think we both agree that even if there WAS a radical break, or a clever "repackaging" of some ancient practice like Yoga, you should - in theory - be able to go from a modern teacher to one who lived thousands of years before moving on an unbroken line of descent. The practices found along this way, just like you've said, might be very different from the ones that are taught today, and some (or most) of their spiritual content might have disappeared. Yet, the line should be there to follow, and in principle, you should be able to have a Wikipedia entry where you kept on clicking the links of descent to end up somewhere in the second millennia BC. Unfortunately this was not the case of Greece or England.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited It's actually got a really interesting history as part of many Asian responses to imperialism and modernisation. You could say it reflects English Romanticism or a counter-Enlightenment movement among Indians and Westerners. You are right that there are definitely strands that can be traced to earlier forms of yoga, but on the whole it is a modern practice. The Oxford Research Encyclopedia has a decent summary: doi.org/10.1093/acrefore/9780199340378.013.163 "Beginning in the 19th century, yoga proponents modernized yoga through creative processes of translation and accommodation in response to a sustained and unprecedented increase in capitalist production as well as colonial and industrial endeavors and the consequent globalizing processes. Though modern yoga went global by the 19th century, its early history featured controversial, elite, or countercultural systems opposed to prevailing orthodoxies and disdained or condemned by the general populace, which often treated it as a corruption of authentic yoga or as an unwelcome foreign import.1 More than anything else, a bifurcation between yoga’s meditative, philosophical, and ethical dimensions, associated with classical yoga or raja (“royal”) yoga, and the physical techniques associated with hatha yoga influenced the early constructions of modern yoga and the public’s view of it."
@Dharma Defender When did I say that the Yoga Sutras were written recently? I said that modern yoga is not an ancient tradition; it is a modern tradition. The key here is the term tradition -- the yoga sutras were lost for centuries and then rediscovered -- by the British -- and then reinterpreted. For example, the interpretation of Swami Vivekananda was most influential, which is not an ancient tradition at all.
@Dharma Defender Modern yoga is a modern tradition based on later (mis)interpretations of ancient texts. And the texts were lost for centuries, so EVEN if modern yoga interpreted the texts correctly, it could not be an ancient TRADITION.
Greeks were always held as high culture in Hindu wisdom. You will almost always see Greeks portrait as honoured fighter/person and someone blessed with immense beauty.
I hear that some statues of the Budha were influenced by Greek sculpture. I have even heard that some were influenced by portraits of Alexander the Great.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited I won't be surprised if that's the case. I will definitely look into it. I am so excited to start my new job and get my annual leave to visit Greece. It was always my dream to visit Greece and Rome mainly but also the rest of Europe as well. There are many Greeks in Australia but few are just anglosised, nothing wrong with that, it's just they should look up to the Greek past. But I am lucky to have one greek friend who talk to me about greek stories and traditions. And another old lady from my part time work who always complaining that her grandson doesn't know anything about Greece. And appreciate that I speak my mother tongue. So lovely to find your channel.
@@s.b626 As I said they were only praised for their beauty and honour. I don't know if they were praised for their wisdom and philosophy in Hindu culture. I wasn't talking about obsession of Greeks towards Hindus. That's a different story.
There are PATRILINEAL societies & there are PATRILOCAL societies. That is not necessarily the same as PATRIARCHAL.....The evidence you speak of is of patrilocal and patrilineal societies
@@AncientGreeceRevisited I had no idea that anyone would read my comments since it is an older video. Actually, I was making an assumption. about the basis for claiming that Patriarchy existed (or matriarchy). It is just that when such claims are made, (in the videos by anyone) I never see the evidence presented. Except that reference IS made to Genetic lineages. That could refer simply to patrilineal characteristics. (I think). But, I want to hear reference to the fact that far, far fewer male lineages are found than female. THAT I have read various places. THAT could prove Patriarchy. It certainly shows that native males are excluded from breeding by invading males. In the parts of Latin America that had low populations there is now a very low percentage of native DNA found; that is one example of this
@@AncientGreeceRevisited I just found you on the UNREGISTERED podcast 2 days ago. I like you, but I don't know you well enough to propose marriage just yet (it could happen). One of my best friends from my undergrad Stanford days (1968-73) was from Crete and he furthered my interest in that area of the world. I had already become very attached to someone I met in Soviet Armenia and had become enamored of and fascinated by that whole general area.
When you lose your faith I can understand you becoming agnostic or atheist, but pagan...rather like the parable where the expelled demon returns with “seven devils worse than himself.”
Defending democracy, complaining about "emotional reactions" yet well-spoken comments with evidence mysteriously disappear after the stream, then defending feminism in this video, which is in itself an entertainment of the latest scientismic Western circlejerk mythology, presented by labcoat shaman... One really has to wonder what does the "revisited" refer to in the name of the channel, since this is just all the same as thus far. Never mind, this too shall pass.
Myceneans were Greeks as their language tells us. Minoans were not Greeks but in the 12 century BC the power in Crete was in the hands of the Myceneans. In the reality modern greeks are almost the same Greeks as the Myceneans and yes we are mixed with Minoans (eteo krites), Pelasgians, Thraciens, Frygians, Albanians, Slaves and Vlachs and this is good for the healthy of the population.
That sounds about right. Yet, we must never forget that culture does not always follow genes. For all we know, the Mycenaeans were not the people that Homer exalted in his epics. Their lives were organised around a centralised kingdom similar to that of Egypt during the same period: where the king functioned as high priest and collector of all agrarian production, redistributing it during the year through a vast network of scribes and bureaucrats. This was NOT the world of Homer! Something happened during the 10th century BC, something in the history not of the body but of the mind, that gave brith to ancient Greece as we know it today,
@@AncientGreeceRevisited We know that the Bronze age collapsed, the Mycenaian culture desapeerd and local warlords got the power as prodectors of small communities. I think that the mythe about the return of the Heracleides together the Dorians was used to justifice the new situation in Greece.My believe is the the Dorians were just the Mycenean soldiers who take the power in place of the King-priest
@@dexippos7721 The descent of the Heraclids could very well be the memories of an invasion from the North. But even if that is not the case - like you implied - there is a distinct change in culture during the 10th century, the Dark Ages of Greece. Homer's unique idea of death and the afterlife for example (or lack thereof) is never implied in the burial tombs of Mycenaean kings. The heroes of the Iliad were burnt, not buried, and their "fire" returned to the gods. Cultures, it seems to me, do not evolve; they are born.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited You are right ther is a culture change in Greece in this time but in the same time the Homeric heroes fight in chariots like in the Bronze Age people in East Mediterrean Sea used to do. Maybe we have to see it like in 1204. The Roman Imperium came in the end. In just a geneartion the knowledge was gone and the realy middle ages began in Greece. Maybe after the Boonze Age collapse the Myceneans remained without their elit and the had to restart their lives with the knowledge and the practices of the undeducated people. And what about the A' colonisation? The greeks of this colonisation are Iones and Aioleis (in Cyprus Arkadians), are these groups not Myceneans? According the myth Ion was not direct son of Hellin maar Hellin maried the mother of Ion. The sons of Hellin were Doros, Xuthos and Achaios. If the Iones changed language then it was before the time of Homer.
@@dexippos7721 It could very well be. But let's consider this a little. If the Mycenaeans lost their elite and their warrior class took over, it still does not explain the emergence of a different world-view, which in fact is the tragic world-view, so typically Greek. In other words, there is always something mysterious in the birth of culture. Like in the birth of humans. We cannot really say that each of us is "half our mother and half our father" implying that you can just put these two things together and it will always come out like we did. No, each one of us is BUILT by the material of these two people, but the way it comes together makes a totally different, and sometimes antithetical person. So with the birth of Greece around the 10the century. Much of the material was Mycenaean, some Minoan, but the tragic worldview can be found in NEITHER of these two, at least as far as we can understand their culture by whatever fragments we have. Homer, was the inaugurator of this view, the first tragic poet as Plato himself implies many times during his dialogues.
It's good to know where your ancestors came from. There's an issue though. It's called Extremism. When a people are too attached to their glory days of how 'it was', your country cannot evolve and change into something new. Race is a belief system. If you believe you come from a particular race then you feel you should exhibit certain attitudes based on the history of your race. This can lead to destructive actions, and the fall of empires. Identifying too strongly with one religion, race or culture without an open mind, leads to attachment of the past. Nazi Germany, Islamic Terrorism, White Supremacy, Trumpism. They come from being attached to one ideology - bringing back the glory days. If you look at the teachings of the ancient Indian mystics, we are all one "Ātman". We come from the same source - the same atoms and molecules of the cosmos - it's the same concept that Marcus Aurelius referred to in the mediations. The stoics, and the epicureans believed in the same concept.
Very well said. However, I think there is an equally strong "extremism" AWAY from the past, away from one's roots, especially in Europe. This is understandable to a certain degree because of what happened in WW2. But just like I said in this interview, it was not nationalism in general but GERMAN nationalism that led to the terrible genocides during this war. Greek nationalism on the other hand, which was cultivated strongly (if not as strongly) by the Metaxas dictatorship, quickly transformed into a pure patriotism that defended Greece AGAINST Italian fascism. We must remember that "love of one's own" is what protects freedom against tyrants: family, nation, religion, and that a one-world-state cannot be but a tyrannical one *. And perhaps a certain suspicion is in order when one sees how these very things are demonized by mass media - who are perhaps the co-rulers of this world. " We must remember that love of one's own does not mean hatred of everything else. * Which is exactly what we discuss in this show "On Tyranny"
@@AncientGreeceRevisited I love this: "We must remember that love of one's own does not mean hatred of everything else." That's very thought provoking. Personally, I am half greek and I am from Australia. I love greek culture, the food and the people - I even have an olive tree at the entry of my home. However, just like any culture too much love for one's own raises suspicion of the other. If you are saying that we can love our own culture, race, religion, ideals, etc and respect, be non-judgmental and coexist with others harmoniously then that makes 100% sense. The German example is extreme. I think the world is scared of repeating that again, and now that we have big tech and oligarchy in charge it's easy to create a dystopia with 'utopia' doing the marketing.
There's nothing wrong with trying to get back to your "glory days" especially considering we as a people are devolving. We must embrace our heritage and remember who we are. Race, religion, and belief systems in general unite people and give them pride while today we're told you're basically insignificant and that everyone is the same from race to gender. We know deep down these things are lies and also they're unnatural ideas meant to subvert. I've seen this concept of we are one before but to me it makes sense and I believe it but I don't see why it matters? Just like inside a body each cell has a different function and some cells are more important than others. We even have invaders that can kill the body which must be destroyed. Being extreme today was considered normal in the past so I think you should take off the world view lens that the world has given you if you plan to see clearly in the future.
In 1939 highly nationalist FINLAND fought back hard against the international socialist movement from the USSR. That was NATIONALISM, and Finnish nationalism never led to attacking others (other than fighting back vs the USSR)
True. It's not Nationalism that leads to Fascist, it's German nationalist that under specific circumstances led to Fascism.
@observation account the means to attack other countries ?
Thanks for giving away what this channel and ideas are really about. We need more neonazi comments like these, so casual viewers can realise what's really intended with these films.
@@Oscuros lol
@@Oscuros Its a point of discussion in the video itself. The host uses the example of nationalist Greece resisting fascist Italy, while the OP rightfully notes Finland fighting the USSR is another great example. So how exactly is he a neonazi? Were the Finns nazis for defending themselves from invasion?
Very Indo-European
Thomas introduced me to this channel. I am very much looking forward to this talk!
Funny, I immediately associated Sheridan with Thomas, but that is OK as he is pagan too.
BTW...The algorithm recommended this video!!!
Just wanted to say I am thankful for StJ for recommending this channel. It is my new favorite channel by far. Thank you AGR for making some of the most interesting and impressive videos I have seen yet. :)
Thank you for joining us
Amazing collaboration thank you for getting together
I must say i was introduced to Jesus early, it never felt right. And i drowned as a 2 year old. At the time didnt understand the significance of the valkry pushing me back. Now i know the difference.
I always thought i saw angels. Was i wrong! Followed many pathes to get to this place. But i can proudly say i am an animist. I am a germanic pagan.
Thank you to both of you for your work! Makes a hige difference in my life! Sheds a light on where these natural belives come from! Keep it up!
And i know im a couple years late.....
Lovely interview, thank you for this!
As a hellenic polytheist, I enjoy your channel very much, looking forward to many videos!
Thank you.
ΥΠΑΝΑΠΤΥΚΤΕ ΔΕΝ ΕΙΣΑΙ ΠΟΛΥΘΕΙΣΤΗΣ ΑΛΛΑ ΑΠΑΤΕΩΝΑΣ
Y Ο U Α R E N O Τ Α H E L L E N I C P O L Υ T H E I S T Y O U A R E A W E Α Κ M O N O T H E I S T
I had the honour to work with Thomas. His work is excellent and deserves a wider audience!
Excellent discussion! Also, you should get Curwen Rolinson on for more details of the connections between Indo-European religions. Just be prepared for a 6 hour interview ;)
Thank you for the suggestion. I'm going to follow through ...
The practice of yoga has been thought to date back to pre-vedic Indian traditions; possibly in the Indus valley civilization around 3000 BCE. Yoga is mentioned in the Rigveda,and also referenced in the Upanishads, though it most likely developed as a systematic study around the 5th and 6th centuries BCE, in ancient India's ascetic and Śramaṇa movements. The chronology of earliest texts describing yoga-practices is unclear, varyingly credited to the Upanishads.The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali date from the 2nd century BCE,[12][13] and gained prominence in the west in the 20th century after being first introduced by Swami Vivekananda.Hatha yoga texts began to emerge sometime between the 9th and 11th century with origins in tantra.
I am still not convinced karma is an IE concept and vedic texts were talking abt heaven(svarga) and hell(naraka).So that also raises the question did the indo aryans even believe in reincarnation?
@@vids569 As far as I know, the idea of reincarnation in which the same soul literally reincarnates in a new physical body is actually not an Indo-European concept, but rather Dravidian, native to India before the Aryan invasion/migration. The Indo-Europeans, as well as many other peoples around the world, did not believe in literal reincarnation of one unchanging soul, but believed in a transformation or metamorphosis of some kind. For instance, most of the ancestors were believed to have gone underground (Hell/Hades) but they would rejoin the living during ceremonies and festivities, they would eat and have fun alongside the living. Other ancestors - the bravest and most honorable, were believed to have gone to a heavenly place like Elysium or Valhalla. Going through Hell or Valhalla was perceived as a path of transformation of the soul in which the soul itself was changing its own state of being. However, one could argue that the Indo-Europeans also believed that some part of the ancestors lived within them (and thus were always with them) because of blood lineage, so it's kind of complicated.
@@vids569 They're frauds appropriating identity and culture. Listen carefully to what they claim about themselves and who they consider their people.
of course it is from India. These people desperately want to attach themselves to India because nowhere else can such advancements be seen. The truth is they were not advanced enough to be sedentary. It's impossible to think they could have influenced anyone, much less the Indus Valley.
@@Perceval777The Mayans believed in reincarnation so it’s likely a very old idea.
You have Mr. Roswell and of course I become a new subscriber. Looking forward to enjoying the channel.
Thank you. More coming up... ;-)
Very enjoyable chat, cheers lads.
Thank you!
What a fantastic conversation 🔥✨
Good stuff chaps.
One thing I will say (and I may be wrong about this): The host seems to be lumping the Minoan and Mycenaean cultures together as similar to each other and opposed to the Indo-European Dorian culture. From my understanding, the Mycenaean and Dorian cultures were essentially two waves of the same Indo-European group coming down from the North into Greece and conquering/mixing with the earlier, pre-Indo-European Minoans, etc. Achilles, Odysseus, etc. WERE warrior Mycenaeans, and, by extension, Indo-Europeans.
Looking forward to this one
Lovely stuff
Loved it!
❤️
good team. looking forward to this chat
UA-cam recommend me this channel after watching only a couple of Thomas, but I'm definitely subbing. Your channel looks great, very neat thumbnails!
Thank you very much! Hope you enjoy it!
I have had no experiences in life that attest to divinity. In fact, quite the opposite. My belief in Santa Claus and Christ were both extinguished when I was about eight years old. Since that time, I have been fascinated by the beliefs of others, which are so completely irrational to me, but absolutely sincere for them. This is my attraction to mythology. It is the story of human nature and it is interesting to explore.
In modern times the poets of memory, the keepers of the story, are passing. They are yielding to digital recall. Unlike the indents of cuneiform, our bits of recall will oxidize beyond reconstruction. In the distant future, while the Epitaph of Seikelos may still endure, will anything of our songs remain?
I am personally envious of true believers myself. It's something that I've never managed so far, although the study of religions has been a part of my life.
There is a great book on the art of memory you might enjoy: g.co/kgs/CAeyHs
I had a similarly 'materialistic' stance, until I discovered the rationale for a transcendent view of reality. We understand so very little really, so looking at things from a purely materialistic perspective truly does diminish what reality is actually like to experience. My suggestion is to read "The Antichrist" by Nietzsche, it awakened something within me, and may within you.
Not discounting your perspective at all, just a polite suggestion. Reality is so much more than the senses or our logic can ascertain.
There's a curious or fitting correspondence between the Indo-Europeans bringing their male pantheon and mating it to the female pantheon of those cultures they conquered, something closely mirrored to the genetics where so many of the daughter cultures have female inheritance from the neolithic predecessor and male inheritance from the invading Indo-Europeans.
Yes, that is definitely one way to look at it. However, there is another ... Because this idea of mythological evolution, from the matriarchal Minoan "Great Goddess" types to the patriarchal Indo-European "Sky God", fits almost perfectly to the stages of psychological development that a child goes through while growing. Have a look here: g.co/kgs/gBXqLG
wrong, gay, and cringe.
"Sex bias in the formation of Yamnaya? An objection I have seen about our model of the early Indo-European language history is that (supposedly) the Yamnaya were formed by admixture of EHG men with women from the Caucasus and this would imply a female-mediated language spread.
The simple CHG-EHG model gives a CHG estimate of:
51.9+/- 1.3% (autosomes)
34.2+/- 8.5% (chrX)
In other words, the evidence is (2.1 s.e.) in favor of male CHG bias and _not_ the opposite"
I think Tom really understood Krishna the dark one.
This is very interesting. I've said for a long time that the Gernanic tribes resembled Tibetan societies. The sexual practices certainly are more in line with Tibetan religious practices. They are what I would classify as a Righteous society as opposed to Luciferic or Satanic.
Mycenaeans were already genetically and culturally Indo-European prior to the Dorian invasion in the Bronze Age collapse. And judging by the genetic literature the proto-Hellenic Indo-European invaders first appeared in northern Greece sometime in the Middle Bronze Age, so sometime around 2600-2000BC, and these people had around 30-50% steppe-related ancestry (proto-Indo-European). So the Indo-European ethnic and cultural element was already present in the mainland Greek peoples prior to 1200BC for at least 1000 years and was not first brought in by the Dorians, who would have been a relatively similar people to the Mycenaeans with perhaps slightly more elevated levels of steppe ancestry. Minoans on the other hand were pre-Indo-European and Pelasgian as you say. Either way, great talk and pleased to see STJ as a guest :)
That is correct. The Myceneans were in fact Indo-European, as their language testifies. I find myself "simplifying" this great history by sometimes omitting them from the equation. Perhaps we should dedicate more time on their culture.
Really now... Care to show us all where these 30-50% indo-Europeans are in a genetics paper?
@@christopherzantiotis www.nature.com/articles/nature14317
@@AncientGreeceRevisited They don’t have 30-50 steppe lolz. It’s 10-14% for Mycenaeans while Minoans didn’t have any.
@@lysander6458 Minoans shouldn't have any. That is the point that we were making, that Indo-Europeans came after and over the Minoans, not before. Now as to the Myceneans, I would not be surprised either. I may have implied that Myceneans were fully Indo-Europeans in my reply above *, and that would be wrong from my part, so I want to correct it here . The Mycenean language was truly an early form of Greek - which is an IE language - which goes some way to show trace some ancestry. Their culture however, and as much as some would like to believe it was the historical Homeric culture, was NOT typically Indo-European. In aspect, it might have looked like a Greek version of ancient Egypt, with a priest-king (rather than warrior-king) at the center of a great palatial complex, gathering the grain from his entire kingdom, storing it in giant warehouses, and distributing it back to his people. A "bureaucratic monarchy" is what some historians have called it, which is a far cry from the Homeric world. In fact, the Myceneans were very literal while in the Iliad (and with the exception of two verses) there is no mention of either reading or writing! Then again, if you compare them with the Minoans, the Myceneans were in fact closer to Indo-Europeans, as the latter used the same script but for a non-Greek language, and it seems their culture was even more "Egyptian," ritualistic, even matrilineal (not matriarchal). So, if we had to take a wild guess, we could say that Myceneans were an early wave of Indo-Europeans who got mostly absorbed by the native culture they conquered, still retaining an upper-class of early-Greek speakers as kings.
* I may have rushed the reply, it's just that I get slack for forgetting to mention them at all!
Great podcast!
Thank you all for this.
Please do this again some time. Great discussion.
Thomas has an open invitation! Thanks for listening.
Excellent video. I just subscribed and look forward to seeing more of your work.
Thank you very much!
Great video
Fun fact. The name of the country "iran" itself LITERALLY means aryan's. You can google it if you dont believe me. Just google meaning of iran
Yes, that is quite well known. It's only Western Europeans who are so hysterical about the name "Aryan."
@@AncientGreeceRevisited sorry my bad
Of course. Many but not too many well educated people are aware of this. Aryan‘s Land. They changed from Persia to Iran in the twenties, I think. Persia they were called by the Colonialists/ Anglo-Saxons/Europeans, therefore they changed it.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited For the information of you Greeks, I must say that the word Aryan is only for Iranians and Indians, that is, Indo-Iranian peoples. This word was taken from the Zoroastrians' Avesta and the Hindu Rig Veda in the 19th century, when Western researchers were looking for the word "beautiful" for the Nordic race. It is better to say that they were stolen. The word Aryan is used as a tribe for the first time in the Achaemenid inscriptions in Rostam by Darius the Great. Even the Greek historian Herdot mentioned Iranian Medes with the name of Aryans. The race of the people of Northern Europe is Nordic and has nothing to do with Aryans.
@@lowersaxon Persia was the name of a part of Iran, by the way, you say the opposite, the western countries put this name in geographical maps to name Iran, otherwise, in the historical books of Iran, for example, in the Shahnameh book of Ferdowsi, the name of Iran and Iranshahr is available, and it was approved by the Shura Council a hundred years ago. Its national name was changed from Persia to its real name, Iran. Found
Always loved Ancient Greece and Rome as a child. I have English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish in me, as well as some minor Southern Italian (Sicily and Campania). I do wonder if I have some Greek ancestry due to the heavy colonization of Sicily and Southern Italy, via Magna Graecia. The Indo-European influence on Ancient Greece probably came in two separate waves, an older one from the Mycenaeans in the Early Bronze Age, and the other from the hypothetical Dorians towards the Late Bronze Age. We need a comparison of Early Bronze Age (EBA), Early-Middle Bronze Age (EMBA), Late Bronze Age, and Early Iron Age Greek, Anatolian, and Italian genomes to truly get a better picture.
That is correct, the Myceneans were probably Indo-European. Their language is an early form of Greek. In fact, what made the deciphering of Minoan scripts (Linear A) so difficult was the fact that it used the same characters... but for a different language: the Minoan, which was not Indo-European. It was like writing "greeklish" as we say here in Greece: Greek with Latin characters.
Thank you for this content.
You’re welcome!
Excellent as always. Thanks both!
Good to see another fergus
@@fergimasta Fergusian solidarity to you, brother.
You know it's a strange thing. I'm half Welsh & half Native American though my DNA says that I also have some anglo saxon genetic markers from somewhere as well. No idea which ancestor it would've been. Though it's said on my native American side that we descend from giants. My great grandfather was Shoshone(uto aztecan language family) & he was 6.5 ft tall w/ blue eyes & 6 fingers/toes on each hand/foot. I've been digging really deep into it over the years. Nice work though guys. Well done.
Great stuff. But don't forget that DNA is not deterministic. Think of children for instance, each child is clearly a mix of two parents, yet, they are not really "half their father" in any meaningful sense. If their father was a master painter for example, they wont predictably be mediocre painters themselves because they got half of that genius. It's not how it works and we know that when we look at individuals. With people it should be no different. Greek culture, which is the subject of my personal inquiry, is half Indo European and half Minoan. Very broadly speaking of course. But the Greeks were unique. Their poetry, Indo European in origin, featured the first notions of tragedy, which is entirely unique in human culture. It's not "Aryan" in any historical sense. We must never forget the uniqueness of cultures by collapsing it to their "ancestral" cultures.
@@AncientGreeceRevisitedim very familiar & that's true, however the DNA most certainly came from somewhere & it's where my people say it came from that has caught my interest. After studying bones all over the world there are multiple types of human being that have been intermixed w/ our own. We've become rather homogenous in many ways. Luckily on my fathers side I know my entire lineage going back 1500years so I know where that part of me comes from but my native American heritage isn't so clear. I have to say though that many native American tribes are genetically distinct peoples who all came to this continent different ways. Some where already here & some walked but some state quite emphatically that they sailed here from a land torn by war & cataclysm. All this being said it's hard not to feel like we are missing something in our understanding of how our history actually went. Heck most of the stuff taught in school is still rife w/ mistakes & outright fibs from the Victorians. Lol
@@JCOwens-zq6fd True. All I was saying is that we are more like chemical reactions. Water is H2O. Both H and O are gases, and water is a liquid. You could study these components separately all you wanted and you would never come up with the notion of liquidity. There are emerging properties that are not reducible to their elements. Be careful not to exchange "Victorianism" with "reductionism."
@@AncientGreeceRevisited We have to be careful not to fall into any logical fallacies etc. I tend to approach things from a stand point of data. I have a multiple number of data points to observe & the more point in the same direction the more the statistical chances increase. As the victorians & what they left us go. I tend to accept what can be proven. For example we still teach children in school the whole story about Paul Revere yet we know according to all the records from the time that he was captured by the British & never made it near concorde or otherwise. Plus any number of other theories & stories that we continue to perpetuate & enshrine in verse, song, film etc. I've been in academia, traveled the world, learned the languages of these peoples, talked to them & after all that ive found some disturbing trends that have more to do w/ politics than anything. I just want to know what's true & restore the history of my people. Regardless of what it is.
Remember you can only really know your female ancestors from family trees. Male lines are full of 'mistakes'.
Ancient Indians called Greeks "Yavan". The Bible refers to Ionian Greeks as "Javan." Dorian Greeks stood out among the other Greek ethnos because they looked more like northern Euros, but they were said by people like Josephus and Paul etc to be from Shem. The Ionians and other Greeks worshipped Iapetus (Jupiter in Rome) as their progenitor..this is clearly Japheth, father of Javan. You may not believe in the Bible or follow the Christian God but this is only a couple out of many connections to Europeans and these west Asian lands also. What do you think of these?
Most eastern languages call Greeks “Ionians” in one way or another. That is probably because it was this particular tribe who came in contact with them. Turks call us “Yunan” or something similar.
I think only in India we can have discussion on Indo-European culture without being labelled as Nazi. One can create a good research organization in India where people from all over the world can share ideas without a backlash. (Maybe there can be another kind of backlash from the leftist)
@AryanBoudhi agreed. Both ideologies are staunchly stupid.
That's ironic, given that India is the main source of Indo-Aryan Migration denial, most videos on the Indo-Aryan Migrations are usually peppered with Indian Nationalist comments, who will go as far as saying that Indo-Europeans came from India and that it's nazi/white supremacist propaganda.
The point is:the moment north indian upper castes begin to "celebrate" their IE heritage,its the end.They lose the right to exist in India and will lose the support of intermediary and lower castes politically.This explains why the NI upper castes are delusional about AIT and post videos "debunking" AIT whereas southerners are more comfortable with this theory
@@vids569 good observation.
@@vids569 what bullshit lmao
Love this! λατρεύω αυτό!
Thank you! Ευχαριστούμε!
This is more of a personal journey of religion than anything else; not what I expected. BTW Heracles is pre-Greek.
I hope you were pleasantly surprised however. And yes, Hercules is pre-Greek, most probably. I don't remember what we said with Tom about this hero, but I don't think we made him an example of Indo European culture. I consider Hercules a bit like Thor. The Norse god's goat-chariot and Hercule's blunt weapon, both betray their pre-Indo-European roots.
@@teo2975 Well said Teo. It’s usually a problem of confusing the bricks for the house. A house is made of bricks, but it’s actually its shape that makes it a house. Similarly, you can find pre-Greek elements in every aspect of Greek culture, but it’s the way these are put together that makes them Greek.
So The Rig Veda would be a Product of Our Aincient Ancestors as well? And we are Distantly Related to the Indians over there on the Subcontinent?? .... COOL
It’s not so much that we are genetically related to Indians it’s more that European people at some point had massive influence in the northern region of India bringing along the Indo European culture, Which we can still see alive and well today
@@admiralkipper4540 these stone dwllers not advanced enough to be sedentary influenced the Indus? haha. Everything you claim is found in India, which is actual proof. You have no evidence of a culture much less civilization. Show the proof not assumptions that you made any contribution to India. They aren't making the connection; it's you hoping to be part of them. You have zero evidence except to show you hated your ancestors and worship the Indians.
Perun of the Slavs rides a chariot, And Lithuanian Perkunas also ! Driven by Goats 🐐!
Very interesting, thank you gentlemen.
There's no doubt that Europeans are the civilisation that IndoEuropeans founded. Elsewhere, IndoEuropeans either died out, were subsumed by a preexisting civilisation, or were assimilated into an expanding civilisation.
Not true only linguistically there’s more continuum between Southern European ethos and logos in the near East than in early yamnaya. The Greeks and romans were not anymore like the Vikings than they were like the Egyptians
Very cool video fellas.
At 25:00, eh autosomal DNA isn't all that due to it being recombinant, I don't want to diminish it as you can infer a lot from it but haplogroups pertaining Y chromosomal DNA and mitochondria DNA represents the genetics of unbroken lineages paternal and maternal respectively, where one can even accurately predict the time periods when and where the ancestral men and to a lesser extent the women lived due to predictable mutation rates.
They're not like for like data but it does help us understand anthropology nonetheless.
Thank you for your comment. That issue is way above my league to answer. Perhaps Tom could do a better job.
Ο Υπερβόρειος Απόλλων εγκρίνει αυτό το podcast.
Hyperborean Apollo approves this podcast.
Το εκτιμάμε!
ARYAN COWBOYS - important topic. There is an essay called "The Roots of the White Man" by Sam Francis that talks about these parallels between the early Aryan cattle-drivers and the heroic cowboy/frontiersman mythology of the American West. You will also want to read "The Evolution of the Cow-Puncher" by Owen Wister (author of the first respectable literary Western novel called 'The Virginian: Horseman of the Plains') which traces the character of the cowboy back to knights on horseback of Arthurian legend and Anglo-Saxon England. One might even trace it back further to those ancient "steppe barbarians" now called the Indo-Europeans. What were the early "Aryans" if not cowboys and horsemen of the plains?
But now there seems to be no more frontiers to explore. Unless, of course, we bring up more SPACE COWBOYS in the coming generations.
That is great stuff. I always felt that when these first Europeans went to the Americas they somehow re-enacted their foundation myth of the horse-back warrior. I will look into these essays...
First we need to unite as a people, then get the Earth in order, then we explore the stars.
the word aryan comes frokm sanskrit arya, meaning civilized, righteous follower of vedic tradition. you do not find it in any european literature of the past, only indian. so they were early indians
you know, ironically, i think the reason why people obsess over aryans is the same reason pagans claim people obsess over abraham: there is no other alternative
Zeus' chariot was pulled by goats as well. I have a few quandaries with what was discussed here such as Odin being related to Mercury as opposed to Saturn. Loki far better resembles Mercury as both were messengers of storm gods.
Please send us some links with more details about this, as we'd love to investigate your claims. To my knowledge, the Greeks did see Hermes (Mercury) in the face of Odin. But maybe we will stand corrected.
I think shani oates talks about a saturnian connection it in her book odin the hanged god, I haven't finished the whole book yet, but it is a great read nonetheless.
45:40 time stamp for when I wake up tomorrow
great
❤️
Fantastic podcast. 😁 Love Thomas.
❤️💜🧡
To correct the speaker, the Aryans are not 'the indo-europeans' but a subgroup with absolute consensus among academics. The Aryans are part of the indo-iranian family.
True. But the word “Aryan” is present in both India and Europe (it’s in the Greek texts). So in that sense you might say it spans the Indoeuropean world.
Hi dear friend. I am very happy that someone has finally realized that the Aryans are Indo-Iranian and have nothing to do with European tribes. Special thanks from Iran for you.
Hi dear friend. I am very happy that someone has finally realized that the Aryans are Indo-Iranian and have nothing to do with European tribes. Special thanks from Iran for you.
@@Mehr.ariyan I agree, but keep in mind the Indo-Aryans were descended from the Sintashta and Andronovo, who had a Nordic phenotype.
@@VeniVidiVandaliAuz Dear friend, with all the respect I have for you. But I disagree about the origin of their residence. These are all the ideas of European researchers about the Aryan race from a hundred years ago at most. But the presence of Aryans in Iran and India is at most 7000 years ago, which is found in the Zoroastrian Avesta and Indian Rig Veda, and the works left by them go back to at least 4500 years ago in Iran. An example of that is the Naqsh Rostam inscription in Persepolis in Iran, where Dariush Daran introduces himself as the son of a Persian and from the Aryan tribe. In addition, the faces carved in Rostam's carvings are all Iranian and have an oriental appearance. No Nordic. These are all imaginations of Western researchers
50:41 Sutton Hoo? 1940
Εντάξει είστε φοβερό κανάλι! Τι θα λέγατε να κάνετε ένα αμιγώς ελληνόφωνο βίντεο περι Ινδοευρωπαίων, Πρωτοελλήνων κτλ; Το χρειαζόμαστε ως χώρα γιατι ο αντι-ινδοευρωπαϊσμός εδώ πάει...σύννεφο (αρκεί να πατήσετε ινδοευρωπαίοι και θα δείτε τι σαχλές αναλύσεις πρωτοφιγουράρουν στο ελληνικό youtube). Θα είναι αντιδημοφιλές, αλλά το "χρειαζόμαστε". Κάνετε βιντεάρες!
Ευχαριστούμε πάρα πολύ! Είναι τέτοια σχόλια που μας κάνουν να συνεχίζουμε... Η ιδέα του Ελληνόφωνου βίντεο περνάει συχνά από το μυαλό μας, όμως έτσι όπως το έχουμε στήσει προς το παρών είναι αμιγώς αγγλόφωνο, καθώς η βασική ιδέα είναι "ένας Έλληνας που μιλάει στους ξένους... για την Ελλάδα". Ελπίζουμε όμως να μπορέσουμε σύντομα να κάνουμε κι άλλα πράγματα, στα Ελληνικά αυτή τη φορά, όπως κάποια σειρά/ντοκυμαντέρ, ακόμα και παράσταση ...
Επίσης, εάν σου άρεσε το θέμα, σίγουρα θα σου αρέσει και η σειρά μας για την Αργοναυτική εκστρατεία, ιδιαίτερα το 3ο και 4ο μέρος, όπου μιλάμε για τον Ιάσωνα και τη Μήδεια σαν "εκπροσώπους" της Ινδοευρωπαϊκής και Μινωικής Ελλάδας αντίστοιχα.
ua-cam.com/play/PLpKJ4OweBXmvTwXVrXAqwZTEtVwkNNKbi.html
@@AncientGreeceRevisited Eυχαριστώ για την απάντηση και για την πρόταση του βίντεο, σίγουρα θα το δω, όπως κι ό,τι άλλο έχετε ανεβάσει. Έχω δει ελάχιστα ως τώρα για να είμαι ειλικρινής, καθότι καινούργιος εδώ: για τον λυσιμελή έρωτα και τα τρίγωνα της Σαπφούς, για τον Ωνάση, αυτό με τον StJ, τη συνέντευξη που πήρατε από τον Ράγκο και μια συνέντευξη που δώσατε πέρσι στον Βέλγο "Φιλέλληνα". Πραγματικά είστε αξιέπαινοι και για τη θεματολογία, και για το πώς την παρουσιάζετε, και για τους προβληματισμούς που θέτετε, και επίσης για τη γενικότερη αισθητική των βίντεο η οποία είναι ΚΑΤΑΠΛΗΚΤΙΚΗ! Και μόνο που δηλώνετε ότι έχετε επηρεαστεί και από Κορνήλιο Καστοριάδη αλλά και από την Konservative Revolution ταυτόχρονα, μου αρκεί για να καταλάβω πόσο προχωρημένα απροκατάληπτοι είστε, πράγμα εξαιρετικά σπάνιο στην εποχή μας.
@@KataDaemonaEaftou Ευχαριστώ λοιπόν κι εγώ προς απάντηση. Δεν είναι πολλοί εκείνοι που μπορούν να "πιάσουν" τις αναφορές αυτές, όπως και το (εσκεμμένα) "αντιφατικό" σε αυτές. Πιστεύω ότι όσα περισσότερα από τα βίντεο μας βλέπεςτε, τόσο θα καταλάβετε και το γενικότερο όραμα.
1:35:31 just by chanting name of Krishna you will be saved.
Please keep in mind that this belief is held by "Vaishnav sect" of Hinduism only and it is not supported by any of the core vedic text (vedas, Brahman, aryannyaks or smritis).
Yes, I think that Tomas said something along the lines of "it was mostly added for extra effect." I don't remember his exact words however, but that is the feeling that I've retained. So yes, I did expect this particular point on Krishna to be a minor one in the whole theology.
why would a racist chant the name of BLACK krishna
Are you aware of Churchill's beliefs? For example regarding the Kurds?
Hinduism has nothing to with europe
a decade ago in the Amazon Basin of Peru I used Ayahuasca......It made me "go" at both ends all night with crumby hallucinations, and caused endless dizziness. At the start I "saw" the 4th dimension for some minutes. That's the whole story.
These experiences are notoriously difficult to capture in words. Everything must be put in quotes if justice be served ;-) Yet, this does not mean they are but metaphors. Throughout them one has the sense that what they are experiencing is "more real than reality." It's only a sense, but then again, isn't that same sense what we use to distinguish dream from waking life?
@@AncientGreeceRevisited so true..the next morning we went Dow the tributary where our lodge was and out onto the mighty Amazon . We the 5 meter long pink porpoises breaching. We dove into the river. They swam away. But there was such an amazing panoply of sound under water
@@AncientGreeceRevisited I am a clinical psychologist. Re: reality, substances, and returning to a typical consciousness it has been related to me by heterosexual males that while on certain drugs at parties that they became sexually involved with another male. Some time later he calls the other heterosexual male about doing it again sober. The response was that it had been just a one off drug experience. The caller is disappointed having found a new way of relating to another guy. But, for the other it was just being high at a party
I wonder if Aryan is actually referring to ancient Illyrians.
I doubt it, typically it refers to the indo European people from somewhere in Russia
@@admiralkipper4540 no it refers to rigvedic people, they called themselves arya, not europeans.
You're correct that Krishna does not appear in the Rig Veda - he is not a Vedic deity at all. He comes from a different tradition in India
Yes Krishna is Most likely derived from gods of Indus valley civilization.but later on he was considered as the avatar of Vishnu(who is a vedic deity).
@@extratropicalcyclone8567 none of the blue deities in hinduism are vedic, blue skin according to hindu doctrine is blackness, i.e the appearance of indus valley natives
@@Flammenhagel rubbish propaganda, vishnu as well as krishna are vedic gods, the one who compiled vedas, veda vyas, is dark skinned man, also an arya. arya is not a racial erm rather a linguistic.
@@extratropicalcyclone8567 rubbish , without any proof. krishna is a vedic god. the vedic period is an extension of indus valley civilisation.
The name “Krishna” is mentioned in Rig Veda 1.116. 23 , 8.74. 3,4 etc.
\
min 1:12...the Finnish language has the KALEVALA........Finno-Ugric......written down 1st in the 1800's......Tales were memorized and some old women could sing these straight for 24 hours. The language Finnish is a hybrid of Finno-Ugric and Indo-European. Some scholars note that the best language to study for an understanding of Proto-Indo-European is Finnish because as a very conservative language it retains the very, very old forms.Numerous farming terms are examples of this.
And yet, the Kalevala is an epic with no sword-fighting! This would be unthread of in the cultures closer to the original Indo-Europeans. I find this example significant, because our cultures in Europe have been so influenced by those Indo-Europeans that without the Kalevala ot would be difficult to conceive of an alternative to the war-epics that we have been accustomed by Homer.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited yes....that has struck many readers readers. The Finnish speakers according to some historians were seen as strange (maybe that is how se all see different peoples). They were seen as masters of the magical arts from the Middle Ages into the early 20th Century (even, I read, as far south as Italy. Vikings wanted a Finn on board ,often as a sail maker, due to their ability to exert control over the wind. the book, Two Years Before the Mast by Richard Henry Dana Jr., published in 1840 has a part in which a sailor on board speaks about the Finns' ability to control the wind. And THAT was in the 1800's!
@@johnl5316 In the Kalevala, the magical powers are acted through singing. The Finns are still a very musical people. There is an inter-generational thing going on there.
Your podcast is called "on tyranny". Hmm, I think I should watch a few videos of T. R. channel (which I didn't know) to understand what you'll be talking about. Right now I don't see the connection with "tyranny".
This podcast started as an attempt to apply our research on ancient Greece on the current crisis, as of the global pandemic. Many things came up, like the way our minds are conditioned to accept a certain narrative about how events are unfolding, and then... one thing led to the other, and here we are talking about Indo-Europeans. But the connecting thread is that this subject is also considered as a "dangerous" one by mainstream media, allegedly because of its connections with Germany during WW2. In this interview we are clarifying a lot of the backlash that the idea of an Indo-European culture has had as of late, and the real reasons behind it.
@Manic Misanthrope bravo! And love the name!
I found AGR through seeing this video, Tom is always a fascinating speaker and this was a good introduction to his ideas and channel. Great job.
Thank you for joining us. More of these interviews and episodes coming very soon!
Personally, I am not yet convinced by the indoeuropean theory... To me it's a lot similar to the theory of the phoenician alphabet...
It's a theory, to be sure. But the dogmatism of certain followers is only matched by the dogmatism of its deniers. There is narrow-mindedness on both ends, and we tried to walk the line between these extremes. Thank you for listening.
Would love to hear Asha Logos and Tom as dual guests.
Krishna is not indo European or vedic. Krishna and his followers often insult vedic god indra which is the same deity as thor, jupiter, zeus, perun, taranis, terunt or PIE perkunos
indra is a bmac non-indo-european deity, we know this because, like many greek deities, there is no plausible indo-european etymology for his name, nor is there even a characteristically proto-indo-european equivalent of his, we even have the name of the original deity he replaced, verethragna, preserved in zoroastrian scriptures, and in vedic epithets, another indication of this is the fact that he introduced a great many new traditions to indo-aryan cultures, the big one being soma-drinking of course, which, like most other newer indo-aryan traditions, has archeological evidence in the former territories of the bmac
@@Flammenhagel thats not true. Indra is actually a very regular Indo Aryan formation from √ind-. To find out its possible meaning from the context, we can also consider if there are other words from this root. Usually, words are borrowed into a language, not specifically a root. And we see the same root comes in the word indu. (used for Soma and moon) We also see a word indriya that means “strength” in the Vedic Sanskrit. it can be easily deduced that √ind- means to “increase”, “prosper” or “swell”. The only task would be just to find the Indo European form of the the root √ind-, which is not difficult. It fits PERFECTLY with being the nasal injected into PIE *h₂eid that means “to swell”.
Now If you add pie suffix -rós to this root which is used to Form adjectives from Caland system roots you get pie *h₂indrós
Which in Sanskrit will become indra with perfect sound change correspondence
@@abhinavchauhan7864 the point is that there is no prevalence for any deity resembling indra in comparative indo-european mythology
@@abhinavchauhan7864 also this is not at all coherent with indo european grammar, the root "ind" was first proposed by vopadeva in recent times, and, when properly applied, would result in the name "indos" not "indra"
@@abhinavchauhan7864 interestingly enough, the thunder god motive is said to have spread out via the proto-semites, and there was a population of iranian farmers, which invaded india some thousand years before the indo-aryans, that had high amounts of proto-semitic ancestry, so there might be some even older roots to indras attributes than the bmac, but he's definitely unique for sure, theres no doubt about that
If you have not read Werner Jaegers three volume work on Hellenism called Paideia please do.
Greece and Hellas are two very different things.
It has been on the list for a long time. But yes, they are different things. There is a reason was "Hellenistic" was not called "Hellenic" or "Greek."
@@AncientGreeceRevisited Greek is used to denote the period after the great mental enslavement starting with the Roman invasion and continuing to this day.
Read and keep searching then you will understand that the Christians are really the pagans.
ΟΖΟΣ ΑΡΗΙΟΣ
Germany had IMPERIALISM as a motivator, not nationalism. Hitler and his crew saw Nationalism as petit bourgeois ( remember the 3rd Reich; 1st was Rome, then The HolyRoman Empire) and saw "the Church" as a longer term threat than communism
1. Who, please tell me, did not have Imperialism as the motivator? The Brits? France, Tsarist Russia? China? ( yes!), Japan? 2. The third Reich? Completely wrong, my friend. 1. Reich was Holy Roman Empire (originating from the catholic Franks), the 2. was unified Germany from 1871 to 1918. Hitler despised Christianity, but had some respect for the catholic church which had survived for 2000 years. Clearly, he hated communism far more than „the Church“, sorry, thats a matter of fact. The quasi- religion of the future in his dreams being Nat. Soc. itself.
@@lowersaxon it was Goebels who said that the Church was the reich’s greatest enemy. I hadn’t made that clear
Very Indo-European
Were you surprised? ;-)
I really should take care to read more thoroughly…. I almost didn’t watch this video as I thought it said “Tranny, the Indo-European connection “
Catholic school in Greece? interesting, as Greece is Eastern Orthodox
Yes indeed. The professors played down their Catholicism, but we had two separate classes for religious education between Orthodox and Catholics. It was always a mystery to us as to what they were telling those kids in "Catholic class" ;-)
@@AncientGreeceRevisited That you have to respect and even love the Pope. Quite easy and straightforward.
There is no evidence of any invasion into India by these roamers from the West. PIE is also a made up language by modern "scholars". There is no archaeological evidence of an invasion into India. Also, while the Greeks talked about Indians and the Indian influence on Greece is clearly noted, the Indians rarely if ever bothered with the Greeks. See Srikant Taligere on what the Greeks owe the Indians.The obsession was one way
Tom should now much more that I do about an invasion into India. But as for a similar invasion into the Greek peninsula, it most probably happened. This does NOT mean that once, somewhere during the 12 century BC, a band of horsemen (or chariot men more likely) from the eurasian plains lined up in front of a Pelasgian settlement waiting for the order to charge! It happened gradually, and in sequential waves. The invasion is a "summary" of a process that might have lasted half a millenia, but as such, it's still a valid metaphor. What you need to remember is that the Greeks themselves believed in something like this. The Spartans for sure, through of themselves as "settlers" in their own lands, orginally coming from the North with the "sons of Heracles"
Its Arya (आर्य) anglicised as Aryan. Arya means 'Children of God' ( ईश्वरपुत्र; Ishwarputra), one who abided by the word of God. God revealed Vedas at the very beginning of the humanity on the planet. Name of religion is Dharma its scripture is Veda and the adherents are called Arya. Western scholars distorted this sanskrit term and mistaken it for a racial identity.
Yes, although I am not as knowledgable in this myself, I believe that Aryan is the correct term.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited Aryans were spread from norther India to Anatolia and central Asia. Vedic terms like Indra, Varuna and Marut etc are inscribed on Bogazkhoi inscriptions in Turkey, in central asia the homa tradition is very evident in archeological findings.
I thought Arya, or “Aryan”, meant noble. Anybody was capable of being an Aryan. As long as you spoke Sanskrit, rode horses, adopt a warrior culture, invoke Indra in worship, and was a patriarch alpha.
@@raan2deep Yes, Aryas are called noble also because they are God abiding people. When European scholars read Mahabharata and Ramayan were Lord Krishn and Lord Ram were called as 'Arya' they came with a theory that the word 'Arya' meant only for the royal classes, but in fact this term were denoting there religion and there righteousness.
@@AbhishekTiwari1111 I'm not disagreeing with you. I, personally, would protest this idea that being "God abiding" would make someone noble. I would say that deeds should make a man noble, and not the fact that he believes in a higher power.
Very EEF.
Why don't you interview Nicholas Kazanas a Greek scholar who proposed and believes in the Out of Theory - A theory that states that the Indo-European languages originated in India. In all repect to Thomas Rowsell, he does not know what he is talking about and certainly lacks the nuance understanding of the Indo-European tradition. He is describing the Indo-Europeans as an Abrahamic one although he trying not to. Prof Kazanas is a linquistics and a Sanskrit scholar who knows the Indic and Greek tradtions. You should read his papers on this matter online and watch some of his videos on UA-cam. In would be nice in you can get him on your show, it will be a great discussion since you both belong to the Greek tradtiion.
How is talking about "horse sacrifice" Abrahamic?
@@AncientGreeceRevisited Is this comment directed to me? I never stated anything about "horse sacrifice". Please read my comment again.
@@raghavarvoltore6517 I know that you didn't. But near the beginning of this video, Thomas said how his master's degree was about horse sacrifice in Indo-European peoples. You said that his description of them is "Abrahamic", and I am wondering how can this be given that Thomas stressed this type of sacrifice as an integral part of Indo-European cultures?
@@AncientGreeceRevisited In your video Mr Thomas was not only discussing about "IE horse sacrifice" but IE's in general. His description of the IE peoples are Abrahamic like because he describes them as war-like warriors fighting their way arcoss Eurasia whorshipiing their Father God Zeus/Dyaus/Jupiter/Indra. They were very patriarchal, manly and heroic in their behaviour and this allowed them to convert a lot of non-IE people into their way of life which was mostly through warfare. But Mr Thomas is not trying to describe them as Abrahamic like but he nonetheless does.
Of cource this is all wrong, and what better scholar to discuss this then Mr Nicholas Kazanas who is an expert in this field and who knows Greek and Sanskrit. Best to invite him and ask questions that your already asked Mr Thomas. You will learn much more from him then you'll ever learn from any other mainstream IE scholar.
@@raghavarvoltore6517 I have contacted him and hopefully he will reply.
odin hanging in heaven is actually imho floating in heaven floating in heaven mistranslate possibly
saying Ax is only for war is in time domain silly, Ax was used for building dwellings hunt 1000s of uses building fire etc etc occasionally in 1000s of years a tiny skirmish broke out for a day or week or a ten year tit for tat war pace was slower ...
You mentioned a yoga guru having an unbroken line of inheritance back thousands of years. This is unlikely as yoga was invented in recent times with a veneer of antiquity to help popularise it. I agree with your general point that some Indian mystics (although I would say relatively few) have long lines of inheritance, but yoga is a modern practice that some people portray as ancient because that is good for branding. And I think this has happened often in Indian religion as each new generation reinvents its own traditions in various ways, and it would have happened in ancient Europe too.
That is very interesting what you've said there. Please send us some links here to investigate further. Apart from that, however, I think we both agree that even if there WAS a radical break, or a clever "repackaging" of some ancient practice like Yoga, you should - in theory - be able to go from a modern teacher to one who lived thousands of years before moving on an unbroken line of descent. The practices found along this way, just like you've said, might be very different from the ones that are taught today, and some (or most) of their spiritual content might have disappeared. Yet, the line should be there to follow, and in principle, you should be able to have a Wikipedia entry where you kept on clicking the links of descent to end up somewhere in the second millennia BC. Unfortunately this was not the case of Greece or England.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited It's actually got a really interesting history as part of many Asian responses to imperialism and modernisation. You could say it reflects English Romanticism or a counter-Enlightenment movement among Indians and Westerners. You are right that there are definitely strands that can be traced to earlier forms of yoga, but on the whole it is a modern practice. The Oxford Research Encyclopedia has a decent summary:
doi.org/10.1093/acrefore/9780199340378.013.163
"Beginning in the 19th century, yoga proponents modernized yoga through creative processes of translation and accommodation in response to a sustained and unprecedented increase in capitalist production as well as colonial and industrial endeavors and the consequent globalizing processes. Though modern yoga went global by the 19th century, its early history featured controversial, elite, or countercultural systems opposed to prevailing orthodoxies and disdained or condemned by the general populace, which often treated it as a corruption of authentic yoga or as an unwelcome foreign import.1 More than anything else, a bifurcation between yoga’s meditative, philosophical, and ethical dimensions, associated with classical yoga or raja (“royal”) yoga, and the physical techniques associated with hatha yoga influenced the early constructions of modern yoga and the public’s view of it."
@Dharma Defender When did I say that the Yoga Sutras were written recently? I said that modern yoga is not an ancient tradition; it is a modern tradition. The key here is the term tradition -- the yoga sutras were lost for centuries and then rediscovered -- by the British -- and then reinterpreted. For example, the interpretation of Swami Vivekananda was most influential, which is not an ancient tradition at all.
@Dharma Defender Modern yoga is a modern tradition based on later (mis)interpretations of ancient texts. And the texts were lost for centuries, so EVEN if modern yoga interpreted the texts correctly, it could not be an ancient TRADITION.
Thats wrong, of course. What is correct is that modern Yoga is a nearly completely different animal than the ancient forms.
Greeks were always held as high culture in Hindu wisdom. You will almost always see Greeks portrait as honoured fighter/person and someone blessed with immense beauty.
I hear that some statues of the Budha were influenced by Greek sculpture. I have even heard that some were influenced by portraits of Alexander the Great.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited I won't be surprised if that's the case. I will definitely look into it. I am so excited to start my new job and get my annual leave to visit Greece. It was always my dream to visit Greece and Rome mainly but also the rest of Europe as well. There are many Greeks in Australia but few are just anglosised, nothing wrong with that, it's just they should look up to the Greek past. But I am lucky to have one greek friend who talk to me about greek stories and traditions. And another old lady from my part time work who always complaining that her grandson doesn't know anything about Greece. And appreciate that I speak my mother tongue. So lovely to find your channel.
never, It is the Greeks who talked about the Hindus. The Hindus never bothered with the Greeks. The obsession was one way
@@s.b626 As I said they were only praised for their beauty and honour. I don't know if they were praised for their wisdom and philosophy in Hindu culture. I wasn't talking about obsession of Greeks towards Hindus. That's a different story.
There are PATRILINEAL societies & there are PATRILOCAL societies. That is not necessarily the same as PATRIARCHAL.....The evidence you speak of is of patrilocal and patrilineal societies
Which part of this interview are you referring to?
@@AncientGreeceRevisited I had no idea that anyone would read my comments since it is an older video. Actually, I was making an assumption. about the basis for claiming that Patriarchy existed (or matriarchy). It is just that when such claims are made, (in the videos by anyone) I never see the evidence presented. Except that reference IS made to Genetic lineages. That could refer simply to patrilineal characteristics. (I think). But, I want to hear reference to the fact that far, far fewer male lineages are found than female. THAT I have read various places. THAT could prove Patriarchy. It certainly shows that native males are excluded from breeding by invading males. In the parts of Latin America that had low populations there is now a very low percentage of native DNA found; that is one example of this
@@AncientGreeceRevisited I just found you on the UNREGISTERED podcast 2 days ago. I like you, but I don't know you well enough to propose marriage just yet (it could happen). One of my best friends from my undergrad Stanford days (1968-73) was from Crete and he furthered my interest in that area of the world. I had already become very attached to someone I met in Soviet Armenia and had become enamored of and fascinated by that whole general area.
When you lose your faith I can understand you becoming agnostic or atheist, but pagan...rather like the parable where the expelled demon returns with “seven devils worse than himself.”
"If you stop being Christian, I recommend you become pagan"
- Robert Sokolowski
[ua-cam.com/video/nPM_QhM_a5g/v-deo.html]
Defending democracy, complaining about "emotional reactions" yet well-spoken comments with evidence mysteriously disappear after the stream, then defending feminism in this video, which is in itself an entertainment of the latest scientismic Western circlejerk mythology, presented by labcoat shaman... One really has to wonder what does the "revisited" refer to in the name of the channel, since this is just all the same as thus far. Never mind, this too shall pass.
Agreed! There are stages of D. We recently reached a further one.
Dont opposite ur catholic roots n indo european roots
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ΕΙΣΑΙ ΓΕΛΟΙΟΣ
@@HaralabosKagadis φατε σκατα
There is no Indo-European anything. Keep up the good work.
I believe the ancient Greeks learned a lot from ancient Hittites, Luwians (Troy), and Minoans.
And created 1000x more things from the things they learned, dorian supremacy.
Odin seems to have some characteristics of Saturn.
Info-Europa ist absolut falscher Begriffe.
Myceneans were Greeks as their language tells us. Minoans were not Greeks but in the 12 century BC the power in Crete was in the hands of the Myceneans. In the reality modern greeks are almost the same Greeks as the Myceneans and yes we are mixed with Minoans (eteo krites), Pelasgians, Thraciens, Frygians, Albanians, Slaves and Vlachs and this is good for the healthy of the population.
That sounds about right. Yet, we must never forget that culture does not always follow genes. For all we know, the Mycenaeans were not the people that Homer exalted in his epics. Their lives were organised around a centralised kingdom similar to that of Egypt during the same period: where the king functioned as high priest and collector of all agrarian production, redistributing it during the year through a vast network of scribes and bureaucrats. This was NOT the world of Homer! Something happened during the 10th century BC, something in the history not of the body but of the mind, that gave brith to ancient Greece as we know it today,
@@AncientGreeceRevisited We know that the Bronze age collapsed, the Mycenaian culture desapeerd and local warlords got the power as prodectors of small communities. I think that the mythe about the return of the Heracleides together the Dorians was used to justifice the new situation in Greece.My believe is the the Dorians were just the Mycenean soldiers who take the power in place of the King-priest
@@dexippos7721 The descent of the Heraclids could very well be the memories of an invasion from the North. But even if that is not the case - like you implied - there is a distinct change in culture during the 10th century, the Dark Ages of Greece. Homer's unique idea of death and the afterlife for example (or lack thereof) is never implied in the burial tombs of Mycenaean kings. The heroes of the Iliad were burnt, not buried, and their "fire" returned to the gods. Cultures, it seems to me, do not evolve; they are born.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited You are right ther is a culture change in Greece in this time but in the same time the Homeric heroes fight in chariots like in the Bronze Age people in East Mediterrean Sea used to do. Maybe we have to see it like in 1204. The Roman Imperium came in the end. In just a geneartion the knowledge was gone and the realy middle ages began in Greece.
Maybe after the Boonze Age collapse the Myceneans remained without their elit and the had to restart their lives with the knowledge and the practices of the undeducated people. And what about the A' colonisation? The greeks of this colonisation are Iones and Aioleis (in Cyprus Arkadians), are these groups not Myceneans? According the myth Ion was not direct son of Hellin maar Hellin maried the mother of Ion. The sons of Hellin were Doros, Xuthos and Achaios. If the Iones changed language then it was before the time of Homer.
@@dexippos7721 It could very well be. But let's consider this a little. If the Mycenaeans lost their elite and their warrior class took over, it still does not explain the emergence of a different world-view, which in fact is the tragic world-view, so typically Greek. In other words, there is always something mysterious in the birth of culture. Like in the birth of humans. We cannot really say that each of us is "half our mother and half our father" implying that you can just put these two things together and it will always come out like we did. No, each one of us is BUILT by the material of these two people, but the way it comes together makes a totally different, and sometimes antithetical person. So with the birth of Greece around the 10the century. Much of the material was Mycenaean, some Minoan, but the tragic worldview can be found in NEITHER of these two, at least as far as we can understand their culture by whatever fragments we have. Homer, was the inaugurator of this view, the first tragic poet as Plato himself implies many times during his dialogues.
It's good to know where your ancestors came from. There's an issue though. It's called Extremism. When a people are too attached to their glory days of how 'it was', your country cannot evolve and change into something new. Race is a belief system. If you believe you come from a particular race then you feel you should exhibit certain attitudes based on the history of your race. This can lead to destructive actions, and the fall of empires. Identifying too strongly with one religion, race or culture without an open mind, leads to attachment of the past. Nazi Germany, Islamic Terrorism, White Supremacy, Trumpism. They come from being attached to one ideology - bringing back the glory days. If you look at the teachings of the ancient Indian mystics, we are all one "Ātman". We come from the same source - the same atoms and molecules of the cosmos - it's the same concept that Marcus Aurelius referred to in the mediations. The stoics, and the epicureans believed in the same concept.
Very well said. However, I think there is an equally strong "extremism" AWAY from the past, away from one's roots, especially in Europe. This is understandable to a certain degree because of what happened in WW2. But just like I said in this interview, it was not nationalism in general but GERMAN nationalism that led to the terrible genocides during this war. Greek nationalism on the other hand, which was cultivated strongly (if not as strongly) by the Metaxas dictatorship, quickly transformed into a pure patriotism that defended Greece AGAINST Italian fascism. We must remember that "love of one's own" is what protects freedom against tyrants: family, nation, religion, and that a one-world-state cannot be but a tyrannical one *. And perhaps a certain suspicion is in order when one sees how these very things are demonized by mass media - who are perhaps the co-rulers of this world. " We must remember that love of one's own does not mean hatred of everything else.
* Which is exactly what we discuss in this show "On Tyranny"
@@AncientGreeceRevisited I love this: "We must remember that love of one's own does not mean hatred of everything else." That's very thought provoking. Personally, I am half greek and I am from Australia. I love greek culture, the food and the people - I even have an olive tree at the entry of my home. However, just like any culture too much love for one's own raises suspicion of the other. If you are saying that we can love our own culture, race, religion, ideals, etc and respect, be non-judgmental and coexist with others harmoniously then that makes 100% sense. The German example is extreme. I think the world is scared of repeating that again, and now that we have big tech and oligarchy in charge it's easy to create a dystopia with 'utopia' doing the marketing.
@@sambarryofficial Very well said once again!
There's nothing wrong with trying to get back to your "glory days" especially considering we as a people are devolving. We must embrace our heritage and remember who we are. Race, religion, and belief systems in general unite people and give them pride while today we're told you're basically insignificant and that everyone is the same from race to gender. We know deep down these things are lies and also they're unnatural ideas meant to subvert. I've seen this concept of we are one before but to me it makes sense and I believe it but I don't see why it matters? Just like inside a body each cell has a different function and some cells are more important than others. We even have invaders that can kill the body which must be destroyed. Being extreme today was considered normal in the past so I think you should take off the world view lens that the world has given you if you plan to see clearly in the future.