I was homeless, did drugs, went into prison, where I got to know God. He changed my life. Now I have a home, a wife and a lovely year old daughter (zoe), and a stream of income that gats me $47,000 weekly. Plus a new identity - a child of God, Hallelujah!!!🇺🇲❣️❤️❤️
What an inspiring and practical and timely interview Carey. I hope people listen to Andy’s words and take them to heart. Especially at the end of interview. Priceless. Thank you Carey and Andy.
"Being Christ-like narrows our options". Such a helpful distinction that shifts our mindset from thinking we have to help God win. I have no idea how to help God win because his ways never seem to be like ours. But Christ-likeness, I CAN follow Jesus toward the cross in my responses and priorities. Thank you!
I got saved and became a believe and follower of my Lord and Savior Jesus who is the Christ at age 15. Sept. 21, 1974.This Sept. 21, 2024 will be 50 years. I was a sinner but Jesus did not leave me that way. I went home that night asked my sisters and brothers to forgive me for anything i'd done wrong to them. He delivered me profanity and smoking cigarettes. My wife and I were both virgins when we got married. I was 23 she was 19. This is NO testament of MY OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS. This is the life changing power of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Andy speaks of people who want to claim they are Christians yet live the same relationship to sin as they always have.
Thank you Carey and Andy for sharing this conversation with us. I hope to find more about Andy's comment on following Jesus in tone, temperament, and posture. I'm often too quick to speak and too slow to listen, I hope to swap those modes personally. I really appreciated Andy's comments about the temptation of Jesus and how he specifically rejected the earthly power dynamics he was offered. Rewritten in modern language one might say he was offered the presidency of the USA and he declined. I see many objections in the comments who seem convinced that Jesus would want his followers to seek political power - I don't see that in the gospels or new testament. Rather I see a faith in Jesus that remains strong in the face of imprisonment and challenge. Thanks again for all the insights!
Thank you Carey & Pastor Andy. This Pastor appreciates the conversation and the wise words spoken here and the message that gives a clear path forward for the church in these difficult times! I'm thankful!
17:00 Andy acts as if these are all just minor inconsequential, peri ferial doctrines that are not "heaven and hell issues. The world today hates Jesus. They hate HIS Word and by extension they hate Christians. That's what we're seeing. Those that claim to be the most tolerant, have ZERO tolerance for those of us truly follow Jesus.
Carey and Andy, thank you both so much. This was helpful, inspiring, and encouraging. I pastor a church that is politically diverse but unified, and concerned more for each other than promoting their own ideology. Jesus came once to provide teaching and examples that apply to all time; if this wasn't the case we would have multiple Messiahs giving different mandates depending on where we're at in history. Using the teachings and examples of Christ to filter our responses to Scripture, the world, and especially our regard for each other, is never out-of-date.
Thank you, guys. Absolutely. I'm a citizen of a worldly kingdom, and I participate primarily with my vote. But I am more importantly a citizen of an eternal kingdom, and there is no way I would choose temporal over eternal! Love wins!
To be Biblical is to be Christ-like. There should be no difference. Jesus was Biblical. How was Jesus "UNbiblical"? Andy sounds like he wants to "unhitch" the Word of God from the Words of Jesus. He seems to confuse "being Biblical" with being religiously hypocritical. I don´t think Andy would say that being religiously hypocritical equals being Biblical. Love you both Carey and Andy.
My take on what he's saying with that comment is the radical idea behind the Sermon on the Mount...Jesus doesn't want to change our behavior, He wants to change our heart. "You have heard it said (insert behavior), but I say to you (insert response of heart)."
Tim Keller used to say, “what’s the reason under the reason?” so I find myself asking that whenever I am triggered to have an emotional reaction and wonder that when I hear others upset about a topic.
107.35 Here's another quote of the great Apostle Paul 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you WERE. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. We are all "X" sinners of some kind. Be it a fornicator, Adulterer, LGBT, Thief, Liar etc. We're free from sin. I can commit sin, but don't HAVE to. I don't live in habitual, unbroken patterns and lifestyles of sin.
Andy Stanley says we should be Christlike. So do we want our laws to be pleasing to the Lord Jesus or not? Is the Lord Jesus pleased when the laws promote the murder of children, sodomy, unequal weights and measures, and a debased currency? Is it loving your neighbor to open your border to people who could potentially take the life of your neighbor? What about depressing the wages of your neighbors? You know, "the least of these". Any Stanley acts like we still live in the first century with no political power. Well, is Jesus Christ the Lord of heaven and earth or not? Because if he is, HE HAS ORDAINED that we live in a Constitutional Republic where his people have the power to vote and to rule wisely according to his law. The Lord Jesus wants us to make just laws just like he wanted his king David and his king Solomon to do. Here’s a question for Andy: "If a member of your church is a mayor or a city council member or a congressman and he asks you as the pastor how he should use his political power in a way that is Christlike, are you gonna tell him that he should not work for just laws according to the biblical standard?" Andy says that politics is getting into the church. This is absolutely backward. As Christians we want biblical morality to get into politics. We want our laws and our standards to HARMONIZE with God's law and his standards. This is a question of political stewardship. If we adopt Andy Stanley's approach we will be stripped of our political authority and have no ability to shape the laws. If we "bury our talents," the Lord will take them away. The problem is, Andy Stanley is still operating on a "Neutral World" paradigm like it’s 1999. The reason why Andy Stanley has lost his influence so quickly is that he is not willing to lead clearly and forthrightly in dangerous times. There are wartime pastors, and there are peacetime pastors. Andy Stanley keeps saying, "Peace! Peace!" when there is no peace. When you look into his actual focus, what do you see? He is compromising on scripture, Unhitching from the Old Testament. He holds conferences at his church that affirm sodomy, and when asked repeatedly by Dr. Brown, if he agrees with the biblical teaching that sodomy is always a sin, a layup question for any Christian, he refuses to speak clearly. Why? He's so BOLD on Carey Nieuwhofs show to name-call his opponents, why so coy on something so clear? You may think I'm bagging on him, Carey, but I'm really not. I know that Andy Stanley in his personal life is a virtuous man. He has a high standard of personal purity, and from what I can tell, he parented his children according to the biblical teaching, he has been very generous to those in need, even personally shepherding a woman trapped in drug abuse to the point where she was able to be redeemed sober, and have a ministry of her own. This is highly commendable. He's smart, a capable leader, and a great son to his father. He's demonstrated great humility in many places and in many ways. These were all reasons why so many men respected him from afar. But when he speaks about Christians and politics, a subject he spends minimal time on, he is confused at best and deceived at worst. You can respect a man for his success and wisdom in one area while recognizing that he is out of his league in another. God bless Carey and his ministry! At the same time, let's all be real - Carey has been an Andy Stanley fanboy since before he wrote "Parenting Beyond Your Capacity." Great book BTW. I've watched, listened to, and followed Carey for years. I’ve gone through his material for pastors on preaching, breaking growth barriers, and other things. It seems to me the church he built was modeled after Northpoint. That model worked in the neutral world but we don’t live in a neutral world anymore. We live in a world that is openly hostile to Christianity. Of course, that is not new, but the approach to politics these men took in the late 90s and early 2000s does not work today. Christians who stand by and try to third-way politics like Tim Keller only clear a path for the enemies of Christ to gain more political power and create more misery, chaos, and judgment for this country. And this is why mega Church pastors like Andy Stanley have been so quickly marginalized after 2020. 2020 was a test of pastoral leadership and Andy Stanley not only closed his church for over a year, but when Pastors like John MacArthur opened Grace Community, Andy was quick to question the Biblical warrant for such a decision. After GRace Community was vindicated, Andy, Rick Warren, and a handful of others who had been policing the Evangelical church through Covid, they never acknowledged the courage and wisdom in their stand. And, what stand did Andy take? What issue was he willing to be "Misunderstood" on? The George Floyd social justice bandwagon. He was an early adopter there. So causes the left love, Stanley is willing to risk it for the biscuit but causes conservative love, those are secondary, tertiary issues. Got it.
17:50 What did Jesus come to do??? Save us from OUR SIN. Jesus calls us to REPENT, turn from our sin and to him. Isaiah 59:1-2 Surely the arm of the Lord is not too short to save, nor his ear too dull to hear. 2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.
When I stop measuring my relationship with God by how well I know truth and how well I adhere to truth and start measuring my relationship with God by how well I am loving my enemies like Jesus did, then when i look at my enemy it should make me stop saying "god thank you for not making me like that guy" like the pharisee did in Luke 18 and make me fall on my face and say "god be merciful to me a sinner, because I dont want that person like you do". Knowing truth is important and adhering to truth is important, but if thats how we measure our relationship to god and then we show contempt for people who dont adhere to truth, then we' re no better than the pharisees. Jesus demonstrated a better way.
The Bible IS Jesus, they cannot be separated. To be Christlike is to be Biblical and to be Biblical forms you into the image of Christ. Andy talks in circles, he has lost his moorings.
What he means is there are people who love to quote the Bible to justify what they are doing. Versus those who agree with the Bible but choose to act as Jesus acted. That is with kindness and gentleness while not betraying the truth.
The premise Andy brings reads seems to always imply this rubric and theme: "Here's who to hate, here's who to vote for." I find this binary thinking unhelpful and incomplete, in that Jesus tells us to "be in the world, but not of the world." Jesus surely loved the lost, but always raised up righteousness as his rule of life. His theme was "repent and sin no more" and he didn't preach diversity, inclusion, or the like. Instead, he told the truth and paid the price. Andy seems to imply if we stay "in the middle" and won't engage politically we are then Gospel-driven, and if we try to say to the culture 'such and such is wrong' we aren't on track to being Christlike. As a believer, we must engage politically, it's an honor. Of course, not in the pulpits but in voting for candidates that will be involved in helping to save lives, such as the unborn, children who face the violence of genital mutilation, and the like. Jesus said "Render unto Caesar.....etc. The Church has always faced this dilemma: How to live like Christ in a dark world of sin and death. Surely, much of what Andy says is wonderful: engage with people, engage with the darkness, this is all good. However, he implies politics are evil and we must avoid affiliations. The scriptures don't teach this; instead remind us "what fellowship hath light with darkness." I love Andy, but I would enjoy discussing this with him in person, sharing another view as a Pastor for 50 years. God bless you both.
Complaining about misrepresentation while setting up straw man arguments is interesting. I agree we should not fear the congregation, the answers can only be the holy fear of The Lord
Notice how Andy Stanley creates another false dichotomy between being Christlike and being Biblical. "Christians have been brought up to be biblical," he says. Yeah, like 2 Timothy 3:16-17? How many times does the New Testament say, "According to the scriptures", "Have you not read", and "It is written"? Is he seriously saying that we can be Christlike without being Biblical? What Andy Stanley is doing (In my opinion) is trying to separate Christlikeness from being Biblical so that he can POUR HIS DEFINITION int the word "Christlikeness". Pastor Stanley, how do I know what Christlikeness is without the Bible? In the past, Andy has answered that question with something like, “Love one another”. Right. Got it! So what’s the DEFINITION of love Andy? Where do we get that? The answer is the Bible, its commands, precepts, principles, and imperatives. You cannot LOVE someone unless you know what is GOOD for them. Where do we find the definition of what is TRUE, RIGHT, and GOOD? The Bible! What watchers need to understand (In my opinion) is that Andy’s approaches scripture with the atheist in his head, in mind. Like he's said repeatedly in the past (Who Needs God Series), he (Andy) was watching (Maybe listening to) Sam Harris rip the Bible apart. He also mentioned his kid's friends and/or teachers saying that a "global flood" was stupid and Andy told them not to get into a "spitting match" about the Bible. Just tell these skeptics and unchurched people, "Jesus believed it and anyone who can predict his resurrection is someone I’m going to go with." Andy's point was get them arguing about the "Ressurection" not the flood. Why? The reason he does this is because he BELIEVES something about the non-Christian that the Bible doesn't teach and actually teaches the opposite. Andy believes what Norm Geisler taught him at DTS - that the lost man is a man drowning in the water and the Christian is throwing him a life preserver. The Christians job is to convince or "persuade" the drowning man to accept Christ. The Christian must therefore TAILOR the message to the non-Christians beliefs and assumptions. That’s why Andy got all into the "Unhitching from the OT" thing. He was trying to win the hypothetical atheist in his mind. Some Pastors like Andy believe the NONES will not believe the flood, 6-day creation, the virgin birth, etc. so why make those things a big deal? Focus exclusively on the resurrection. Prove that and you’ve won them. As Andy loves to say, "Tie their faith to THE EVENT." But Andy and Norm are mistaken. The non-Christian is not drowning, he’s DEAD on the BOTTOM of the ocean. The only way He will rise to new life, hear the word, see Christ, and be SAVED, is if Christ dives down there and brings them back to life. Christ must give them faith, so Christians SHOULD NEVER be embarrassed by the Bible or change the message of the gospel, sin Satan, death hell, the cross, repentance, forgiveness, and salvation to accommodate THE HYPOTHETICAL ATHEISTS in our heads. Andy has NO IDEA what God is doing in the non-Christian heart when someone forthrightly preaches the whole Word of God but his whole soteriology and ministry philosophy is based on the faulty assumption that he does. He keeps looking at the eyes of the non-Christian he's tailoring his message to trying to read what he's thinking. And then the non-Christian says, "I don't like conservative politics" so Andy and Pastors like him say, "No problem. We won't talk about that." Then the non-Christian says, "I believe in social justice!" and Andy again says, "No problem! the bible talks about prejudice all the time!" Then the non-Christian says, "I practice sodomy. That's not going to be a problem. I'd like to serve on your teams and become a member." And what did Pastor Stanley decide to do in this case? Do you see how this works? Do you see the drift dominoes flowing from a sincere desire to seek and save the lost but misunderstanding what and who does the saving? You start editing and tailoring what you say and don't say, to appease the hypothetical atheists and deconverts in your mind. I hope you see that now Andy. What does this have to do with anything you may ask? The answer is Andy’s soteriology (Theology of Salvation), drives his missiology (Evangelistic Strategy) and his mnistry philosophy (Mission, Vission, Values, and Methods/Style). As the non-Christians in America have kept moving leftward socially, morally, politically, and economically, Andy and churches like his have had to move left too. Move further left to "Keep Winning" the lost. That’s why he’s getting into the LGBTQ stuff. That’s why he wants to Unhitch from the OT. And that’s why he’s creating this false dichotomy between being biblical and being Christlike. It’s in SERVICE to his whole evangelism plan (Built on a huge faulty assumption). After the great "Revealing" of 2020, that plan has proven bankrupt and insufficient for the demands God has placed before us today. Rather than humble himself and said: “You know, my model worked in the 90s and 2000s when people would give Christianity and listen. When people were politically sane, relatively decent and not trying to mutilate girls and castrate boys. When the DNC wasn’t openly murdering babies at their convention in a planned Parenthood van. But now we live in a time when God has “Given us up” to our passions and wickedness and I’ve got to rethink how we as Christians engage. I can’t take for granted the moral stability that we had when I was growing up. I’ve got to speak out about the high-handed wickedness all around us because while the church of Jesus Christ is a priesthood, it's also prophetic.” But he doesn't say that, ever! Instead, he silkily attacks those leaders who ARE DOING THIS as “Fundamentalists," "Old white men who are losing their power" and "Theocrats". Very Christlike. This isn't theology or even wise strategy, this is good old-fashioned SBC POLITICS. Andy Stanley used to have great influence over the evangelical church with books like Deep and Wide. Everyone and their mom were using 1-point preaching and yellow PPTs. Not now. Since 2020 they’ve seen how ineffective that approach is at resisting evil and protecting our neighbors and societies. That approach is not DEEP & WIDE, but SHALLOW & NARROW. He’s moving left while the church is moving right and yet he dares to say "We shouldn’t be political." Got it. Don’t adopt Andy’s view of salvation because it leads to unhitching from the OT, abdication of your Christian political stewardships, and compromising on sexual immorality through baptizing and excusing the LGBTQ cult that is devouring households. These are hard words but sometimes hard words from a friend are better than kisses from an enemy.
17:43 meh I don't know if that's totally true Theologically The Pharisees were really close to Jesus' theology when you compare them to the Zealot or the Sadducees, I think that is in part why Jesus is angry at them the most and doesn't interact with the other sects as much
54:20 Where race is concerned Acts 17: 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; They're are different Tribes/People groups, but one race. The human race. In this one verse God destroys racism and interracial marriage. This alone fixed 90% of our problems in this country.
14:20 Andy makes the most absurd statement that "if you push a candidate closest to Christian principles you now don't want to make disciples of half the Nation". Not true for me. Matthew 10:22 You will be hated by everyone because of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved. Andy just like T.D. Jakes gets no push back from the world is because they both have capitulated, given in and compromised on biblical/Christlike teachings and doctrines on L b G t. JESUS affirms the old testament saying "Have you not heard, in the beginning God created them male and female. Just my opinion.
What is the difference between between being Biblical and being Christlike? What an unreasonable dichotomy to make. Are the Biblical people on one side and those who are Christlike on another side?I found that idea to be total nonsense.
Andy is showing his idolatry again. "For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough." (2nd Cor. 11:4) How many today on here have a Jesus that is different than the one the Apostles proclaimed? If they tell you that Jesus never offended anyone, never insulted anyone, never called anyone names, never hated anyone or anything, you have your answer. What's so sad is that SO many have created a Jesus in their own image according to their own ways, will, & wisdom. They’ve got their idol they’ve named “Jesus” or “God” who’s a PC, Woke, namby-pamby, panty-waisted effeminate wimp that talks with a soft-spoken lisp. It's like they've got their own Jefferson Bible only they've cut out all the parts where Jesus ever judged, raised his voice, got angry, rebuked, disrespected, insulted, mocked, was sarcastic, engaged in name-calling, mentioned Hell or eternal torment, or in any other way triggered their sensibility proclivities, was "unloving", and offended anyone. And a different Jesus is an idol that doesn’t save anyone. Make no mistake. When one is more focused on the Tone than the Substance of what’s been said then you KNOW they have an unteachable spirit. And that has never been more true than today when there is a blizzard of Snowflakes everywhere that is just waiting to have a meltdown. The way Andy twists Matt. 7:1-5 is just one example and SO indicative of how he handles Scripture. And what makes him So DANGEROUS. An hour into this and it's just more of the same that he does. He did it with Jeff Durbin. He's done with in every single case I've seen him with anyone. He plays arm chair psychiatrist/psychologist and basically in a nutshell always comes down to "This is why you do that. I'm right. You're all wrong. And here's why you just can't see it. Talk about a GIANT Sequoia Tree sticking outta an eye socket!
I was homeless, did drugs, went into prison, where I got to know God. He changed my life. Now I have a home, a wife and a lovely year old daughter (zoe), and a stream of income that gats me $47,000 weekly. Plus a new identity - a child of God, Hallelujah!!!🇺🇲❣️❤️❤️
Congratulations!! The scriptures clearly states there's going a transference of the riches of the heathen to the righteous. God keep blessings you
God is more than enough for us, and his mercy is new every morning. Hallelujah🎉🎉🎈🎈
I always appreciate God for his kindness upon my life
May God bless Mrs Elizabeth Marie services, she have changed thousands of lives globally.
Yeah, 253k from Mrs Elizabeth Marie, looking up to acquire a new House, blessings.
What an inspiring and practical and timely interview Carey. I hope people listen to Andy’s words and take them to heart. Especially at the end of interview. Priceless. Thank you Carey and Andy.
Was it wrong for Christians to fight politically for the abolition of slavery?
"Being Christ-like narrows our options". Such a helpful distinction that shifts our mindset from thinking we have to help God win. I have no idea how to help God win because his ways never seem to be like ours. But Christ-likeness, I CAN follow Jesus toward the cross in my responses and priorities. Thank you!
This was a great moment in the conversation
Christ-like in biblical
"Disagree politically, love unconditionally. That’s the way forward." - Andy Stanley
I loved this conversation
Me too
This was so great. I'm so grateful for you both. Every church leader should watch this!
Thanks for the encouragement Rich
"The next generation isn't leaving because they don't believe. They're leaving because they doubt we do." - Andy Stanley
Something to think about for sure
love you book andy
Respect and love both of you. Another great interview Carey.
Nope. The next generation is leaving because they don't believe. They're leaving because they love their sin more than the Savior. (Jn. 3:19-20)
@@roycevanblaricome634 But why are they like that? Who's responsible for that?
I got saved and became a believe and follower of my Lord and Savior Jesus who is the Christ at age 15. Sept. 21, 1974.This Sept. 21, 2024 will be 50 years. I was a sinner but Jesus did not leave me that way. I went home that night asked my sisters and brothers to forgive me for anything i'd done wrong to them. He delivered me profanity and smoking cigarettes. My wife and I were both virgins when we got married. I was 23 she was 19. This is NO testament of MY OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS. This is the life changing power of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Andy speaks of people who want to claim they are Christians yet live the same relationship to sin as they always have.
Thank you Carey and Andy for sharing this conversation with us. I hope to find more about Andy's comment on following Jesus in tone, temperament, and posture. I'm often too quick to speak and too slow to listen, I hope to swap those modes personally. I really appreciated Andy's comments about the temptation of Jesus and how he specifically rejected the earthly power dynamics he was offered. Rewritten in modern language one might say he was offered the presidency of the USA and he declined. I see many objections in the comments who seem convinced that Jesus would want his followers to seek political power - I don't see that in the gospels or new testament. Rather I see a faith in Jesus that remains strong in the face of imprisonment and challenge. Thanks again for all the insights!
Glad you resonated with this interview Michael
Thank you Carey & Pastor Andy. This Pastor appreciates the conversation and the wise words spoken here and the message that gives a clear path forward for the church in these difficult times! I'm thankful!
Thanks for watching!
17:00 Andy acts as if these are all just minor inconsequential, peri ferial doctrines that are not "heaven and hell issues. The world today hates Jesus. They hate HIS Word and by extension they hate Christians. That's what we're seeing. Those that claim to be the most tolerant, have ZERO tolerance for those of us truly follow Jesus.
Love Andy, borrow so much from him . Just ended my teaching Sunday with Philippians 2. thanks for having him
Our pleasure! Thanks for watching
Carey and Andy, thank you both so much. This was helpful, inspiring, and encouraging.
I pastor a church that is politically diverse but unified, and concerned more for each other than promoting their own ideology. Jesus came once to provide teaching and examples that apply to all time; if this wasn't the case we would have multiple Messiahs giving different mandates depending on where we're at in history. Using the teachings and examples of Christ to filter our responses to Scripture, the world, and especially our regard for each other, is never out-of-date.
So encouraged to hear your church is unified! Cheering for you and your leadership.
Thank you, guys. Absolutely. I'm a citizen of a worldly kingdom, and I participate primarily with my vote. But I am more importantly a citizen of an eternal kingdom, and there is no way I would choose temporal over eternal! Love wins!
Thanks for watching and sharing this!
Great conversation. Thanks Andy Stanley for doing this interview, I love your heart and wish I lived closer to your church.
"Winning at all costs can cost us our Christlikeness. Prioritise character over victory." - Andy Stanley
To be Biblical is to be Christ-like. There should be no difference. Jesus was Biblical. How was Jesus "UNbiblical"? Andy sounds like he wants to "unhitch" the Word of God from the Words of Jesus. He seems to confuse "being Biblical" with being religiously hypocritical. I don´t think Andy would say that being religiously hypocritical equals being Biblical. Love you both Carey and Andy.
What is the difference between living biblically and Christ like?
My take on what he's saying with that comment is the radical idea behind the Sermon on the Mount...Jesus doesn't want to change our behavior, He wants to change our heart. "You have heard it said (insert behavior), but I say to you (insert response of heart)."
Tim Keller used to say, “what’s the reason under the reason?” so I find myself asking that whenever I am triggered to have an emotional reaction and wonder that when I hear others upset about a topic.
That's a great reminder - thanks Jane
If I say something about Andy will he call me??? I would love to talk to him! LOL Thanks to both of you for providing this podcast and platform.
Haha! Thanks for watching, hope it was helpful.
107.35 Here's another quote of the great Apostle Paul 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you WERE. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. We are all "X" sinners of some kind. Be it a fornicator, Adulterer, LGBT, Thief, Liar etc. We're free from sin. I can commit sin, but don't HAVE to. I don't live in habitual, unbroken patterns and lifestyles of sin.
Andy Stanley says we should be Christlike. So do we want our laws to be pleasing to the Lord Jesus or not? Is the Lord Jesus pleased when the laws promote the murder of children, sodomy, unequal weights and measures, and a debased currency? Is it loving your neighbor to open your border to people who could potentially take the life of your neighbor? What about depressing the wages of your neighbors? You know, "the least of these". Any Stanley acts like we still live in the first century with no political power. Well, is Jesus Christ the Lord of heaven and earth or not? Because if he is, HE HAS ORDAINED that we live in a Constitutional Republic where his people have the power to vote and to rule wisely according to his law. The Lord Jesus wants us to make just laws just like he wanted his king David and his king Solomon to do. Here’s a question for Andy: "If a member of your church is a mayor or a city council member or a congressman and he asks you as the pastor how he should use his political power in a way that is Christlike, are you gonna tell him that he should not work for just laws according to the biblical standard?"
Andy says that politics is getting into the church. This is absolutely backward. As Christians we want biblical morality to get into politics. We want our laws and our standards to HARMONIZE with God's law and his standards. This is a question of political stewardship. If we adopt Andy Stanley's approach we will be stripped of our political authority and have no ability to shape the laws. If we "bury our talents," the Lord will take them away. The problem is, Andy Stanley is still operating on a "Neutral World" paradigm like it’s 1999.
The reason why Andy Stanley has lost his influence so quickly is that he is not willing to lead clearly and forthrightly in dangerous times. There are wartime pastors, and there are peacetime pastors. Andy Stanley keeps saying, "Peace! Peace!" when there is no peace. When you look into his actual focus, what do you see? He is compromising on scripture, Unhitching from the Old Testament. He holds conferences at his church that affirm sodomy, and when asked repeatedly by Dr. Brown, if he agrees with the biblical teaching that sodomy is always a sin, a layup question for any Christian, he refuses to speak clearly. Why? He's so BOLD on Carey Nieuwhofs show to name-call his opponents, why so coy on something so clear?
You may think I'm bagging on him, Carey, but I'm really not. I know that Andy Stanley in his personal life is a virtuous man. He has a high standard of personal purity, and from what I can tell, he parented his children according to the biblical teaching, he has been very generous to those in need, even personally shepherding a woman trapped in drug abuse to the point where she was able to be redeemed sober, and have a ministry of her own. This is highly commendable. He's smart, a capable leader, and a great son to his father. He's demonstrated great humility in many places and in many ways. These were all reasons why so many men respected him from afar.
But when he speaks about Christians and politics, a subject he spends minimal time on, he is confused at best and deceived at worst. You can respect a man for his success and wisdom in one area while recognizing that he is out of his league in another.
God bless Carey and his ministry! At the same time, let's all be real - Carey has been an Andy Stanley fanboy since before he wrote "Parenting Beyond Your Capacity." Great book BTW. I've watched, listened to, and followed Carey for years. I’ve gone through his material for pastors on preaching, breaking growth barriers, and other things. It seems to me the church he built was modeled after Northpoint. That model worked in the neutral world but we don’t live in a neutral world anymore. We live in a world that is openly hostile to Christianity. Of course, that is not new, but the approach to politics these men took in the late 90s and early 2000s does not work today.
Christians who stand by and try to third-way politics like Tim Keller only clear a path for the enemies of Christ to gain more political power and create more misery, chaos, and judgment for this country.
And this is why mega Church pastors like Andy Stanley have been so quickly marginalized after 2020. 2020 was a test of pastoral leadership and Andy Stanley not only closed his church for over a year, but when Pastors like John MacArthur opened Grace Community, Andy was quick to question the Biblical warrant for such a decision. After GRace Community was vindicated, Andy, Rick Warren, and a handful of others who had been policing the Evangelical church through Covid, they never acknowledged the courage and wisdom in their stand. And, what stand did Andy take? What issue was he willing to be "Misunderstood" on? The George Floyd social justice bandwagon. He was an early adopter there.
So causes the left love, Stanley is willing to risk it for the biscuit but causes conservative love, those are secondary, tertiary issues.
Got it.
17:50 What did Jesus come to do??? Save us from OUR SIN. Jesus calls us to REPENT, turn from our sin and to him. Isaiah 59:1-2 Surely the arm of the Lord is not too short to save,
nor his ear too dull to hear. 2 But your iniquities have separated
you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you,
so that he will not hear.
How about the situation with Michael Brown? He seemed to call out genuine error after talking to you. I think he did exactly what leaders need to do.
lov it guys thanks godbless
Glad you enjoyed the conversation
Thank you so much for having this great conversation and for sharing it with us!
Of course! I hope it was helpful.
When I stop measuring my relationship with God by how well I know truth and how well I adhere to truth and start measuring my relationship with God by how well I am loving my enemies like Jesus did, then when i look at my enemy it should make me stop saying "god thank you for not making me like that guy" like the pharisee did in Luke 18 and make me fall on my face and say "god be merciful to me a sinner, because I dont want that person like you do". Knowing truth is important and adhering to truth is important, but if thats how we measure our relationship to god and then we show contempt for people who dont adhere to truth, then we' re no better than the pharisees. Jesus demonstrated a better way.
Thanks for sharing this Brian.
The Bible IS Jesus, they cannot be separated. To be Christlike is to be Biblical and to be Biblical forms you into the image of Christ. Andy talks in circles, he has lost his moorings.
So you don't believe in the Old testament
What he means is there are people who love to quote the Bible to justify what they are doing. Versus those who agree with the Bible but choose to act as Jesus acted. That is with kindness and gentleness while not betraying the truth.
The premise Andy brings reads seems to always imply this rubric and theme: "Here's who to hate, here's who to vote for." I find this binary thinking unhelpful and incomplete, in that Jesus tells us to "be in the world, but not of the world." Jesus surely loved the lost, but always raised up righteousness as his rule of life. His theme was "repent and sin no more" and he didn't preach diversity, inclusion, or the like. Instead, he told the truth and paid the price. Andy seems to imply if we stay "in the middle" and won't engage politically we are then Gospel-driven, and if we try to say to the culture 'such and such is wrong' we aren't on track to being Christlike. As a believer, we must engage politically, it's an honor. Of course, not in the pulpits but in voting for candidates that will be involved in helping to save lives, such as the unborn, children who face the violence of genital mutilation, and the like. Jesus said "Render unto Caesar.....etc. The Church has always faced this dilemma: How to live like Christ in a dark world of sin and death. Surely, much of what Andy says is wonderful: engage with people, engage with the darkness, this is all good. However, he implies politics are evil and we must avoid affiliations. The scriptures don't teach this; instead remind us "what fellowship hath light with darkness." I love Andy, but I would enjoy discussing this with him in person, sharing another view as a Pastor for 50 years. God bless you both.
The culture doesn't care what we think about such-and-such being wrong.
Complaining about misrepresentation while setting up straw man arguments is interesting. I agree we should not fear the congregation, the answers can only be the holy fear of The Lord
Notice how Andy Stanley creates another false dichotomy between being Christlike and being Biblical. "Christians have been brought up to be biblical," he says. Yeah, like 2 Timothy 3:16-17? How many times does the New Testament say, "According to the scriptures", "Have you not read", and "It is written"? Is he seriously saying that we can be Christlike without being Biblical? What Andy Stanley is doing (In my opinion) is trying to separate Christlikeness from being Biblical so that he can POUR HIS DEFINITION int the word "Christlikeness". Pastor Stanley, how do I know what Christlikeness is without the Bible? In the past, Andy has answered that question with something like, “Love one another”. Right. Got it! So what’s the DEFINITION of love Andy? Where do we get that? The answer is the Bible, its commands, precepts, principles, and imperatives. You cannot LOVE someone unless you know what is GOOD for them. Where do we find the definition of what is TRUE, RIGHT, and GOOD? The Bible!
What watchers need to understand (In my opinion) is that Andy’s approaches scripture with the atheist in his head, in mind. Like he's said repeatedly in the past (Who Needs God Series), he (Andy) was watching (Maybe listening to) Sam Harris rip the Bible apart. He also mentioned his kid's friends and/or teachers saying that a "global flood" was stupid and Andy told them not to get into a "spitting match" about the Bible. Just tell these skeptics and unchurched people, "Jesus believed it and anyone who can predict his resurrection is someone I’m going to go with." Andy's point was get them arguing about the "Ressurection" not the flood. Why? The reason he does this is because he BELIEVES something about the non-Christian that the Bible doesn't teach and actually teaches the opposite. Andy believes what Norm Geisler taught him at DTS - that the lost man is a man drowning in the water and the Christian is throwing him a life preserver. The Christians job is to convince or "persuade" the drowning man to accept Christ. The Christian must therefore TAILOR the message to the non-Christians beliefs and assumptions. That’s why Andy got all into the "Unhitching from the OT" thing. He was trying to win the hypothetical atheist in his mind. Some Pastors like Andy believe the NONES will not believe the flood, 6-day creation, the virgin birth, etc. so why make those things a big deal? Focus exclusively on the resurrection. Prove that and you’ve won them. As Andy loves to say, "Tie their faith to THE EVENT."
But Andy and Norm are mistaken. The non-Christian is not drowning, he’s DEAD on the BOTTOM of the ocean. The only way He will rise to new life, hear the word, see Christ, and be SAVED, is if Christ dives down there and brings them back to life. Christ must give them faith, so Christians SHOULD NEVER be embarrassed by the Bible or change the message of the gospel, sin Satan, death hell, the cross, repentance, forgiveness, and salvation to accommodate THE HYPOTHETICAL ATHEISTS in our heads. Andy has NO IDEA what God is doing in the non-Christian heart when someone forthrightly preaches the whole Word of God but his whole soteriology and ministry philosophy is based on the faulty assumption that he does. He keeps looking at the eyes of the non-Christian he's tailoring his message to trying to read what he's thinking. And then the non-Christian says, "I don't like conservative politics" so Andy and Pastors like him say, "No problem. We won't talk about that." Then the non-Christian says, "I believe in social justice!" and Andy again says, "No problem! the bible talks about prejudice all the time!" Then the non-Christian says, "I practice sodomy. That's not going to be a problem. I'd like to serve on your teams and become a member." And what did Pastor Stanley decide to do in this case? Do you see how this works? Do you see the drift dominoes flowing from a sincere desire to seek and save the lost but misunderstanding what and who does the saving? You start editing and tailoring what you say and don't say, to appease the hypothetical atheists and deconverts in your mind. I hope you see that now Andy.
What does this have to do with anything you may ask? The answer is Andy’s soteriology (Theology of Salvation), drives his missiology (Evangelistic Strategy) and his mnistry philosophy (Mission, Vission, Values, and Methods/Style). As the non-Christians in America have kept moving leftward socially, morally, politically, and economically, Andy and churches like his have had to move left too. Move further left to "Keep Winning" the lost. That’s why he’s getting into the LGBTQ stuff. That’s why he wants to Unhitch from the OT. And that’s why he’s creating this false dichotomy between being biblical and being Christlike. It’s in SERVICE to his whole evangelism plan (Built on a huge faulty assumption).
After the great "Revealing" of 2020, that plan has proven bankrupt and insufficient for the demands God has placed before us today. Rather than humble himself and said: “You know, my model worked in the 90s and 2000s when people would give Christianity and listen. When people were politically sane, relatively decent and not trying to mutilate girls and castrate boys. When the DNC wasn’t openly murdering babies at their convention in a planned Parenthood van. But now we live in a time when God has “Given us up” to our passions and wickedness and I’ve got to rethink how we as Christians engage. I can’t take for granted the moral stability that we had when I was growing up. I’ve got to speak out about the high-handed wickedness all around us because while the church of Jesus Christ is a priesthood, it's also prophetic.”
But he doesn't say that, ever! Instead, he silkily attacks those leaders who ARE DOING THIS as “Fundamentalists," "Old white men who are losing their power" and "Theocrats". Very Christlike.
This isn't theology or even wise strategy, this is good old-fashioned SBC POLITICS. Andy Stanley used to have great influence over the evangelical church with books like Deep and Wide. Everyone and their mom were using 1-point preaching and yellow PPTs. Not now. Since 2020 they’ve seen how ineffective that approach is at resisting evil and protecting our neighbors and societies. That approach is not DEEP & WIDE, but SHALLOW & NARROW.
He’s moving left while the church is moving right and yet he dares to say "We shouldn’t be political."
Got it.
Don’t adopt Andy’s view of salvation because it leads to unhitching from the OT, abdication of your Christian political stewardships, and compromising on sexual immorality through baptizing and excusing the LGBTQ cult that is devouring households.
These are hard words but sometimes hard words from a friend are better than kisses from an enemy.
17:43 meh I don't know if that's totally true Theologically The Pharisees were really close to Jesus' theology when you compare them to the Zealot or the Sadducees, I think that is in part why Jesus is angry at them the most and doesn't interact with the other sects as much
54:20 Where race is concerned Acts 17: 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; They're are different Tribes/People groups, but one race. The human race. In this one verse God destroys racism and interracial marriage. This alone fixed 90% of our problems in this country.
Andy Stanley is way off! He has lost his way with the Truth.
14:20 Andy makes the most absurd statement that "if you push a candidate closest to Christian principles you now don't want to make disciples of half the Nation". Not true for me. Matthew 10:22 You will be hated by everyone because of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved. Andy just like T.D. Jakes gets no push back from the world is because they both have capitulated, given in and compromised on biblical/Christlike teachings and doctrines on L b G t. JESUS affirms the old testament saying "Have you not heard, in the beginning God created them male and female. Just my opinion.
What is the difference between between being Biblical and being Christlike? What an unreasonable dichotomy to make. Are the Biblical people on one side and those who are Christlike on another side?I found that idea to be total nonsense.
Andy is showing his idolatry again. "For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough." (2nd Cor. 11:4)
How many today on here have a Jesus that is different than the one the Apostles proclaimed?
If they tell you that Jesus never offended anyone, never insulted anyone, never called anyone names, never hated anyone or anything, you have your answer.
What's so sad is that SO many have created a Jesus in their own image according to their own ways, will, & wisdom. They’ve got their idol they’ve named “Jesus” or “God” who’s a PC, Woke, namby-pamby, panty-waisted effeminate wimp that talks with a soft-spoken lisp.
It's like they've got their own Jefferson Bible only they've cut out all the parts where Jesus ever judged, raised his voice, got angry, rebuked, disrespected, insulted, mocked, was sarcastic, engaged in name-calling, mentioned Hell or eternal torment, or in any other way triggered their sensibility proclivities, was "unloving", and offended anyone.
And a different Jesus is an idol that doesn’t save anyone.
Make no mistake. When one is more focused on the Tone than the Substance of what’s been said then you KNOW they have an unteachable spirit. And that has never been more true than today when there is a blizzard of Snowflakes everywhere that is just waiting to have a meltdown.
The way Andy twists Matt. 7:1-5 is just one example and SO indicative of how he handles Scripture. And what makes him So DANGEROUS. An hour into this and it's just more of the same that he does. He did it with Jeff Durbin. He's done with in every single case I've seen him with anyone. He plays arm chair psychiatrist/psychologist and basically in a nutshell always comes down to "This is why you do that. I'm right. You're all wrong. And here's why you just can't see it. Talk about a GIANT Sequoia Tree sticking outta an eye socket!
American Evangelicalism needs to get back to the Church Fathers and discover the beauty of Liturgy of the Early Church.